Herald on Mana Dotcom plans

March 26th, 2014 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

The editorial:

That scenario was confirmed yesterday by Mr Harawira’s press secretary, who said the two parties would not merge but would share a list. The outcome, said Jevan Goulter on Facebook, could be two or three MPs, “and we remain our own party”. It is almost superfluous to say that this would represent a new low in the defilement of MMP.

Two parties with little in common aside from an antipathy to John Key and covert surveillance would be guilty of a new level of cynicism based solely on mutual benefit. For Mana, there would be the prospect of boosted funding and a higher profile during the election campaign; for the Internet Party, a representation in Parliament that it could never achieve on its own.

One has to be careful about gaming the system too much. For example over the years several have suggested National split into two parties – one that stands list only and one electorate only, wit the outcome being National gets an overhang of around 40 seats and Government. But that has never been seriously contemplated as voters would backlash against such a manipulation.

The basic incompatibility of the two has been enunciated by Sue Bradford, the former Green MP who joined Mana in 2011 on the basis that it stood for self-determination and for all people on low or no incomes. She said she found it astonishing that the idea was even being considered. What stood for, said Ms Bradford, was “the antithesis of what Mana is about to me”. In her view, some people within Mana were looking for a shortcut to build the party, “but there aren’t any shortcuts to building a credible party or movement”.

Maybe if Hone turned up to Parliament more often, they’d get more publicity and profile?

Tags: , ,

31 Responses to “Herald on Mana Dotcom plans”

  1. Harriet (4,612 comments) says:

    “…..mmp…..would be guilty of a new level of cynicism based solely on mutual benefit….”

    Looks rather like the Herald is describing the way that National, Labour and the Greens treat Private Members Bills.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Cunningham (827 comments) says:

    “Maybe if Hone turned up to Parliament more often, they’d get more publicity and profile?” why would he want to do thnat when he can collect the dosh for doing whatever he wants? People will blindly vote for him regardless. It’s actually quite sad that some maori choose this guy to represent them.

    Vote: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. gazzmaniac (2,319 comments) says:

    Maybe if Hone turned up to Parliament more often, they’d get more publicity and profile?

    Given the events of the last few days, it seems to me that they’re getting an awful lot of free publicity anyway.
    Everyone knows who Hone the racist is, and they did anyway. I also suggest that no matter how much money he has that he’ll never get many more votes, since even left voters aren’t that retarded.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. NK (1,102 comments) says:

    I’m desperate for this to go ahead. I’d love to campaign for Act later this year saying a party vote for Act is the only way to stop Hone and KDC making David Cunliffe the PM.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. ROJ (94 comments) says:

    Gaming the system brings all systems into disrepute. Witness the slippery slope of social payments going from safety net to multigeneration entitlement and still not fixing the underlying need.

    I’m still trying to bring up teenagers – same analogy!

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. ROJ (94 comments) says:

    NK – far worse than having Cunliffe as PM would be either of those two near government.

    Of course, that actually implies they stay there, else he would be out?

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Pete George (23,153 comments) says:

    Mana members may have given Harawira the message, he seems to have pulled back from doing a deal with the Internet Party and has stated a bottom line – the Intrenet Party must rule out any deals with National.

    Harawira pulls back from Internet Party

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. tvb (4,234 comments) says:

    Splitting national into two sounds good. But such blatant manipulation could well backfire with unclear results. I think there is a curse regarding constitutional matters and those that advocate change usually come off second best. Be careful what you wish for on constitutional matters.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Simon Lyall (101 comments) says:

    I think a combined list legitimate way around the problems of the threshold for small parties. The current system has a hard cutoff at 5% (ignore electorates) which makes it hard for smaller parties to get in.

    Imagine Act and The Conservatives alternating places in a combined list or National giving everything 10th list places to a Rural party (similar to the Australian one).

    I believe the Alliance in the 1996 election was a combined list of several parties.

    There is plenty of distortion already in the system with local MPs getting in for parties that are below the threshold ( especially in overhang situations like the Maori electorates the Maori and Mana parties won ). I’d much prefer a Mana/Internet Party getting 5% of seats with 5% of the votes than the Maori party getting 3 seats with just 1.5% of the votes)

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. iMP (2,304 comments) says:

    and we abandoned FPP because of an occasional minority anomaly? I’d say the anomalies are running about 100/1 in MMp’s favour at the mo.

    Go Dotcom and Mana! It means the demise of Hone who is now vulnerable to Maori party or NZF attack in his seat. Dotty Com will backlash badly on Mana. Just look at the Mana internal commentary. they’re all leaving if Hone accepts the cheque.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. Ross12 (1,227 comments) says:

    So it would appear the questions Sofia has asked in recent days have been at least partially answered –ie. what Hone and KD were proposing could be done. So now we’ll wait to hear the screaming from Lab/ Greens about maintaining the integrity of MMP. They were the ones who pushed hard for it’s retention.
    Obviously will not occur because this little scam might help them in their power quest.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. BeaB (2,074 comments) says:

    I want to hear what John Minto has to say. Or aren’t his principles as strong as Sue’s?

    John Key and the Nats just keep looking better and better.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. NK (1,102 comments) says:

    Gee, that’s a tough bottom line, and even before the voters have spoken. Dont’ya just love democracy!

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. Pete George (23,153 comments) says:

    and we abandoned FPP because of an occasional minority anomaly?

    No, we switched to MMP because we always had minority Governments wielding all the power. And because many voters were fed up with politics as it was then. Voters are probably more fed up or switched off now but it’s not the system that’s at fault, it’s the users and abusers of the system.

    The last election under MMP gave us a National (Bolger led) government with only 35.05% of the vote. Labour under Mike Moore got 34.68%. Nearly a third of voters were unrepresented in Parliament.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Mobile Michael (428 comments) says:

    If your parties sole policy is prevent a related person being extradited for criminal offences then every other party would be well advised to avoid. Like the plague.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. queenstfarmer (750 comments) says:

    Nearly a third of voters were unrepresented in Parliament.

    Depends what you mean by “unrepresented”. Everyone was represented by their electorate MP under FPP, and still is under MMP. You may not support your electorate MP’s party, but they still represent you (for better or worse) via their electorate mandate.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. wreck1080 (3,784 comments) says:

    But that has never been seriously contemplated as voters would backlash against such a manipulation

    Maybe when you are talking about national voters.

    But, Hone voters…. not the sharpest tools in the shed.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. David Garrett (6,658 comments) says:

    As Pete George has pointed out, we got MMP – with all its faults – because FPP was consistently producing governments with large majorities for whom most voters had not voted. The nadir of the system was of course the Muldoon government of 1981-84 which was a government effectively of one tyrant and a bunch of compliant toadies (his cabinet) for whom most voters had not voted.

    I believe it was a mistake not to make changes to MMP last year – particularly to the threshold – but there is no doubt what we have is a very much more democratic system than we had prior to the change.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. davidp (3,550 comments) says:

    Cunliffe had an up hill battle ahead of him to persuade the public that a Labour Green NZ First Mana Maori coalition would be viable, especially when they all hate each other. Now he needs to promote a Labour Green NZ First Mana Maori Dotcom coalition, where the only policy that they all agree on is that Dotcom shouldn’t be extradited.

    We’ll need a big love-hate matrix to track who hates who in the coalition from day to day. For a starter, I think this is the situation as at 26 March 2014: Greens hate NZ First. NZ First hate the Greens with a vengeance. Maori hate Mana. Mana hate Maori. Mana think Dotcom is a “fat white rich prick”, but want to work with him anyway. Jones hates the Greens. The Greens have complained about Jones. Curran hates Cunliffe but loves Dotcom. Cunliffe isn’t too happy with either Curran or Mallard. The ABCs hate Cunliffe. Labour still hate Maori for taking the seats they feel entitled to. Jones might love NZ First a bit more than he should, if rumours are to be believed. What a mess!

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. mikenmild (11,198 comments) says:

    Hard to see such a wide-ranging coalition getting off the ground. I could imagine Labour/NZ First with support from Greens, but I’m still picking Winston to be kingmaker and go with National for the extra perks they will offer him.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    The illiterate truck driver commands his minions and orders a hui: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/9863326/Kohanga-changes-tipped-as-hui-planned

    Changes to the board of the troubled Te Kohanga Reo National Trust are on the cards, with founding members of the kohanga movement to voice their concerns at a national hui called by the Maori King.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. queenstfarmer (750 comments) says:

    I’m still picking Winston to be kingmaker and go with National for the extra perks they will offer him

    You mean, Sir Winston…. ;-)

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    This treasonous obese slug should be extradited NOW! He is attempting to influence our political system, thumbing his fat nose at our legal system, and trying to court any left-wing leech that will consider giving him citizenship. This criminal arsehole is using and abusing everyone, especially taxpayers, to satisfy his criminal behaviour.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. emmess (1,386 comments) says:

    Go Dotcom and Mana! It means the demise of Hone who is now vulnerable to Maori party or NZF attack in his seat.

    More likely Labour

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. Yoza (1,652 comments) says:

    “Maybe if Hone turned up to Parliament more often, they’d get more publicity.

    I am sure those who vote for Mana understand how effectively a dissenting voice like Hone’s could be marginalized in an institution like parliament by a mainstream media determined to ensure political debate remains within carefully constructed parameters. New Zealand parliament exists to serve the ‘yes men’ among us, which is why John all-things-to-everyone Key excels in that forum.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. chris (584 comments) says:

    How can two parties share a list? This makes no sense to me at all.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. ShawnLH (4,319 comments) says:

    “I am sure those who vote for Mana understand how effectively a dissenting voice like Hone’s could be marginalized”

    He marginalizes himself every time he opens his mouth.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. Fentex (899 comments) says:

    How can two parties share a list? This makes no sense to me at all.

    It certainly sounds unethical and it’s hard to imagine the rules in legislation allow it. Surely to have a list one must have a party by some definition?

    Are they planning on registering a single party, ‘Mana.Net’ perhaps, while campaigning as two?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Fentex (899 comments) says:

    I think a combined list legitimate way around the problems of the threshold for small parties. The current system has a hard cutoff at 5% (ignore electorates) which makes it hard for smaller parties to get in.

    This is a problem with our MMP. The threshold ought be an exact match percentage to seats in parliament (with 120 that’s 8.3%). There’s no good reason to make any votes irrelevant by being discarded due to an entirely arbitrary number.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Scott1 (479 comments) says:

    I found it a little ironic that Bradford was complaining about the possible alliance.

    After all – she, herself, joined Mana to piggy back off the seat of mr “F*k it, I’m off to Paris [on the taxpayer's dollar]“.

    I don’t think Hone really believes the same things as Bradford anymore than Dotcom does.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. Steve (North Shore) (4,517 comments) says:

    Hone said Haere Ra to the German chap with heaps of other peoples money. On your bike to USA

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.