Marama Davidson on abortion

March 30th, 2014 at 12:00 pm by David Farrar

writes:

is only legal if two consultants agree that there would be serious physical or mental harm to the woman’s health, or if the foetus has a serious disability. As a result, 99 per cent of abortions are approved on “mental health” grounds. This is a forced dishonesty that also requires women to justify our decisions. This is not a lightly made lifestyle choice.

I acknowledge that abortion is not the ideal solution to unplanned pregnancies. I support the continual plea for better education, improved access to contraception and more support for adoption and whangai avenues.

In an election year, we should demand that any government will decriminalise abortion. I and many others are not criminals. This is a healthcare matter. And for Lent we should give up judgment.

I agree that the current law is basically a sham, and the law should be changed to reflect the reality – which is abortion is the mother’s choice (at least in the early stages). However I don’t expect there would be any desire among most MPs to have an abortion law reform debate.

Tags: ,

87 Responses to “Marama Davidson on abortion”

  1. AG (1,784 comments) says:

    Wheee!!!!

    Here we go – will the comment thread hit four-figures?

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Ed Snack (1,738 comments) says:

    Perhaps Marama could give up murder for Lent ?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 16 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. dog_eat_dog (743 comments) says:

    I sometimes wonder how most of those here who scream ‘murder’ would react if they found out that it’s likely that someone they know and care about has had an abortion, and that their vitriolic spitefulness meant they have to live in shame about it.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. Nuwanda (83 comments) says:

    It’s abortion on demand for the first 12 (?) weeks. The law is a fig leaf, nothing more, but it works. If it ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Andrei (2,504 comments) says:

    Progressive intellectual judo, if you point out that something is wrong you are being “judgemental” and Christ instructed his followers not to judge others, it is true.

    But this is the Deceiver at work – we want to be told that what we are doing is not wrong, that it is OK to do whatever it is that satisfies what we want now.

    Some things are WRONG and baby murder is one of them.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 17 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. Mobile Michael (414 comments) says:

    This is such a polarised debate that politicians don’t want to get involved, even though I suspect that 75% would be in favour of amending the law to reflect practice. NZ First and probably 60% of National, plus ACT and UF would currently be against, 90% of Labour and all the Greens in favour.

    It will take just one members bill from a pro MP and it will be all on…

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. holysheet (268 comments) says:

    My neighbour is a midwife. During a conversation I had with her last week I asked her how busy she was. She answered that it had slowed down from 3-4 years ago. I asked if there were less babies begin born and she said yes. I asked why?
    She put it down to the new contraceptive that they insert under the skin that lasts 6 months or more.
    Imagine if all women of child bearing age had access to this technology, then there would be no need for abortions.

    When you have religious nutters refusing to even look at contraceptives, then we will always have abortions.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. mandk (821 comments) says:

    Ms Davidson argues that we should give up judgement for Lent, but her article is itself not judgement free.
    Consider, for example:
    ” Family First is not caring for the wellbeing of any mother.”
    and
    “The judgmental guilt trap approach to abortion is pungent and serves only despair.”

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Well of course it is Andrei, because, well, this is preferable isn’t it.
    /

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    A Womans ultimate right is to choose the alterable processes she allows to take control of her body.

    And then there is faith

    Is the point “it” becomes a rational thinking independent organism without medical intervention? or the faith driven soul based point?

    http://www.yaleobgyn.org/yfc/ourservices/invitro/development.aspx
    http://www.babycentre.co.uk/a555453/the-neonatal-unit

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. peterwn (3,163 comments) says:

    “However I don’t expect there would be any desire among most MPs to have an abortion law reform debate.” Which is why an anti-abortion group ran a case right up to the Supreme Court to try and change the way the law is interpreted in an attempt to curb the number of abortions. The attempt in essence failed.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. Judith (7,631 comments) says:

    @ holysheet (186 comments) says:
    March 30th, 2014 at 12:22 pm

    I believe we will always need abortions. They are not always used as a means of contraception or convenience.

    It amazes me that the same people who condemn abortions, also condemn solo mothers, bad parenting and frequently target certain social groups for the manner children are abused, and sometime end up dead due to their parents inability to cope with the responsibility of being a parent.

    Whilst I do not believe that abortion should be utilised as a common form of contraception, I do support its use in situations where proceeding with the pregnancy would be detrimental to the well-being of the mother and/or child, including psychological well-being.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. tom hunter (4,422 comments) says:

    Wheee!!!!

    Here we go – will the comment thread hit four-figures?

    I have to admit that arguing about abortion will likely be more productive than trying to fix the godforsaken Herald on Sunday.

    And that’s before we even get to things outside New Zild.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. CraigM (694 comments) says:

    There is no doubt that any woman contemplating killing the life growing inside them faces a horrible dilemma. So they should. All the evidence supports the fact the majority of women who have abortions suffer with guilt, depression, remorse, doubt, for the rest of their lives but as is human nature, time makes such things more tolerable.

    Does anyone honestly think that making abortion legal would change the human emotion involved in such a decision. You still have to live with the fact that you ended a life. Simple fact and regardless of which side of the debate you fall on, this is the one constant. You had a baby inside you, you killed it, it’s gone forever. If you made the choice, live with it.

    Is Ms Davidson proclaiming that such a law change be implemented purely to address the social stigma attached to her decision?
    If you are Ok with your decision, hold your head up and say so, but I fail to see how a law change will change human nature.

    The fact we, as a society, tolerate wholesale killing of our most defenseless, is a blight on us as a people. To even contemplate making such slaughter legal would show we have sunk to such depths of depravity that there would be no coming back.

    I am for personal choice, but any choice has consequences. Deal with yours.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Alan (1,064 comments) says:

    The law isn’t a sham, what’s a sham is the defacto ignoring of it by the medical profession.

    We have abolition on demand in this country, not because those we elect to determine such things voted to make it so, but because the medical profession collectively decided it wanted to allow it and rorts the law.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. holysheet (268 comments) says:

    How do you screw my comment judith?
    I didn’t say we NEED abortions, I said we will always have them unless the religious nutters accept contraception.
    Lets face it, they are not going to stop have sex, are they?

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    One only has to visit social media sites to realize in some cases abortion should have been mandatory

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. mandk (821 comments) says:

    Judith:
    “Whilst I do not believe that abortion should be utilised as a common form of contraception, I do support its use in situations where proceeding with the pregnancy would be detrimental to the well-being of the mother and/or child, including psychological well-being.”

    a) Abortion is always detrimental to the pre-born baby who is killed.
    b) Overall, abortion tends to damage the mental health of women.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. mandk (821 comments) says:

    @ Cha
    Well of course, abortion always kills someone.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Gulag1917 (659 comments) says:

    Liberals and self genocide.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    mandk

    So you’d prefer a two-for.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. jp_1983 (188 comments) says:

    Abortions in the name of climate change and euthanasia at the other end of life… Can’t have those pesky capitalists living for too long right…
    Such life we could have under their reign.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. ChardonnayGuy (1,136 comments) says:

    So here’s the outcome of that anti-abortion group’s court case. Ohdearwhatashamenevermind…

    http://www.nzcatholic.org.nz/2014/03/28/right-to-life-struggle-after-losing-court-case/

    Right to Life may be wound up, after losing a long-running court battle and facing huge costs that is it is struggling to pay.
    The Abortion Supervisory Committee, which Right to Life took a case against, starting about nine years ago, insists they be paid the full amount of their costs, amounting to $77,575.13. Right to Life spokesperson Ken Orr said his group has proposed the payment of $50,000 upfront and for the balance to be paid in instalments, but this offer was rejected.

    “We’ve spent $120,000 on going to courts for eight years from 2005 to 2012. We’ve only been able to do this because of the generous support of our members and the Catholic community,” he said.
    “We can’t take these actions unless we have support,” he said.

    If you want to make donations to the pro-choice side of the debate, see ALRANZ http://www.alranz.org

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. gump (1,488 comments) says:

    @mandk

    “b) Overall, abortion tends to damage the mental health of women.”

    ————————

    And forcing women to have babies that they’re unable to care for or provide for is good for their mental health?

    I don’t think so.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. mandk (821 comments) says:

    @ cha
    I’d prefer pre-born babies not to be killed, and I’d prefer the mental health of women not to be harmed.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Colville (2,081 comments) says:

    Slash the DPB and make abortions free and easy to get.
    Watch the crime figures plummet, starting with the numbers of Maori kids killed, in 16 years time all crime will be down.

    Its not as tho we need more feral kids bred by feral parents who dont really want them.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. mandk (821 comments) says:

    @ gump,

    There is no evidence that abortion improves the mental health of women.

    Even the “pro-choice” APA could find no net mental health benefits.

    If you want to see some dispassionate research findings from an eminent NZ researcher (whom I understand is an atheist and is “pro-choice”) check out: http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/193/6/444.abstract

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. Fletch (6,026 comments) says:

    At first Lia’s pro-choice teacher told her that she was disqualified from the school’s speech competition because her topic was too controversial. But then she HEARD the speech and was so blown away she changed her mind. Lia went on to WIN the competition!

    http://viralvita.com/video/this-speech-on-abortion-by-a-12-year-old-left-her-pro-choice-teacher-and-half-the-internet-speechles

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Gulag1917 (659 comments) says:

    Encouraged abortion, a symptom of totalitarianism e.g. Marxism

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Kenny (17 comments) says:

    For real choice, choose life http://www.chooselife.org.nz

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. Gulag1917 (659 comments) says:

    Obviously liberals cannot see they are reducing their own numbers through abortion. The blind leading the blind.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. ShawnLH (3,454 comments) says:

    “And forcing women to have babies that they’re unable to care”

    Then why did they have sex in the first place?

    Oh right, Left-Liberalism is the ideology that you can do whatever you like and either force others to pay for the consequences or commit murder if the consequences, in this case a child, are inconvenient to your lifestyle choice.

    “Progressive” Liberalism is the ideology of death.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. B A W (98 comments) says:

    If Labour were to talk about abortion law changes it would send many labour voters to the conservatives.

    If National were to talk abortion it would send many voters to Winston.

    Neither party wants Abortion to be talked about in election year.

    For the record I don’t support abortion, but one must be pragmatic – Ireland reduced it’s abortion rate (they go to the UK) by introducing programs to support women in crisis pregnancy situations.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    Pro-life

    adj. Valuing human life until birth.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. dog_eat_dog (743 comments) says:

    And I’m sure mental health outcomes for women who had abortions would improve if they didn’t have to worry about sign-waving middle-aged men calling them murderers and there wasn’t an outdated religious social stigma thrust upon them.

    Just change the law already and get back to the stuff that actually matters – shaming women for being in an unenviable position isn’t going to help us close the gaps to Australia or improve fish stocks.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. Gulag1917 (659 comments) says:

    Eventually the truth about abortion will come out one day, how it is now an industry commanding big dollars and how it is not the solution. Some people love simple solutions and abortion is a simple solution. The arbitrary nature of the solution indicates the confused and inconsistent reasoning.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. Gulag1917 (659 comments) says:

    The issue is more emotional than logical e.g. the mother has rights, the baby and father have none.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. mandk (821 comments) says:

    @ nasska
    No, it means being in favour of the right to life.
    Alternatively, valuing human life even before birth.
    But thank you for recognising that pre-born babies are human.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Aredhel777 (278 comments) says:

    I am not sure it is appropriate or loving to describe abortion as “baby murder” when people who have had abortions may be reading this thread. Women who have abortions are not on the same level as a gang member in South Auckland who shoots his adult neighbour in the head. There are a lot of lies and misinformation about abortion in our culture and a lot of women have abortions without really realising what they are doing because they are deceived into believing that abortion is no different to having an appendix out. I have nothing but compassion for post-abortive women who feel guilt or grief about their abortions, even if they continue to deny that abortion is wrong and even if how they feel about their abortions manifests as vitriol towards the prolife movement (as I have seen on many occasions at university.) Christ calls us to love and not to condemn. That having been said, I do think abortion is morally wrong.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. Chuck Bird (4,682 comments) says:

    Maybe we could have a referendum on the issue and only allow women to vote. They have a choice to leave the law as is or allow abortion on demand by the woman with no restrictions. If the latter is chosen then no man can be held liable for and child support. It will depend on his voluntary contribution.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    mandk

    Obviously I was being facetious. That said it is still a valid point…..if a fraction, even a soupçon of the energy religious nuts put into protecting a collection of cells was transferred to providing support & an alternative to the mother to be you may be amazed at what you could practically achieve.

    For the record, I’m not in favour with abortion being used as a form of birth control but as many of your fellow Godwhacks are equally opposed to contraception you can hardly be amazed that unprotected sex takes place.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. ShawnLH (3,454 comments) says:

    “if a fraction, even a soupçon of the energy religious nuts put into protecting a collection of cells was transferred to providing support & an alternative to the mother to be you may be amazed at what you could practically achieve.”

    They do. Google it.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    ….”They do. Google it.”…..

    I would but I scheduled this afternoon for the more important & rewarding task of plucking my nose hair.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Nukuleka (213 comments) says:

    Using your twisted logic DPF we could say that, given that most drivers drive over the 50 km speed limit then the current speed limit of 50 km should be abandoned as a sham!! It makes as much sense. Abortion kills unborn children Nothing more need be said. Abortionists are murderers.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Chuck Bird (4,682 comments) says:

    The death penalty is not going to even be reintroduced in NZ. Wasting time debating such an issues means that real solutions get ignored.

    The same applies to abortion. Early abortions will not be made illegal in NZ. There are other abortions issues that could change are sidelined by polarised opinion on both sides of the debate. The issue that concerns me is underage abortions without parental consent.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. WineOh (553 comments) says:

    Pardon the horrific pun… but this issue has been thrashed to death already on KB… Move along, nothing to see here.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. hj (6,359 comments) says:

    Ideally parties shouldn’t decide on matters like abortion, it should be a matter for referendum.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. Judith (7,631 comments) says:

    a) Abortion is always detrimental to the pre-born baby who is killed.

    And living a life of abuse, violence, hardship and even psychological torment because your mother doesn’t want you, care for you properly, or possibly introduces endless ‘uncles’ who abuse you etc – isn’t detrimental?

    Do you know how many unwanted children end up suffering because they live in a situation where they are barely tolerated, let alone loved?

    Do you have any idea how many people attend counselling, attempt suicide, etc, never getting over the fact that they were not wanted?

    You would rather a person live a miserable life and suffer, than to take the life of a embryo that should never have been conceived in the first place?

    I’m sorry, maybe you are that cruel, but I sure as hell aren’t. A 3 month embryo is a parasitic being, it cannot live without its host (mother), the decision whether it makes it to be an independent life form, is her’s alone to make – but one she should be able to make in an open and loving process with the support of others who can guide her through that decision – not condemn her for even thinking of it.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. ShawnLH (3,454 comments) says:

    “Do you have any idea how many people attend counselling, attempt suicide, etc, never getting over the fact that they were not wanted?”

    Bollocks. I was adopted. I would far rather be alive than dead thanks.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. Judith (7,631 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (877 comments) says:
    March 30th, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    Then you were one of the lucky ones Shawn. There are many that were not so lucky, especially those adopted in the close stranger adoption process during the 50-70′s. I’ve seen you speak about your ancestry, many adopted children don’t have that privilege. They don’t know who they are, and where they come from – they have a sense of displacement, and many feel like they don’t belong anywhere. Then there is the abuse that is reported by adopted children – try visiting the library and reading some of the accounts. I’m sure there are plenty of good stories, but there is also some disgusting ones as well.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. ShawnLH (3,454 comments) says:

    I was adopted in 1965. It was only in the last few years that I found out much at all about my origins. I am well aware of the challenges adopted children face.

    Please do not speak for adopted children to prop up mothers killing their babies.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Andronicus (219 comments) says:

    I found Lia’s speech very sad. While articulate, she came across as smug and pretentious. How could we ever expect a preteen to have any idea what a woman contemplating an abortion goes through? Only in America could such a speech be taken seriously.

    Unless you believe no abortions should ever be performed not matter what the circumstances surrounding a pregnancy, then this debate is pretty simple.

    Who has the right to decide?

    It has to be the mother. Who else is there?

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. Judith (7,631 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (879 comments) says:
    March 30th, 2014 at 5:46 pm

    And you think because you had a positive experience that means everyone else did too Shawn?

    Are you really that naive?

    I’ll speak for whoever I like, especially as I am basing my opinion on experience, therefore giving an informed and well researched opinion on this issue.

    Twenty years ago one of the top policemen in NZ was asked who was their most problematic group to deal with – his answer was adopted people “they all seem to have some sort of chip on their shoulder”. As I said Shawn, you were one of the lucky ones, but it is an extremely stupid person that thinks just because their own experience was one particular way, that everyone else’s was the same. Statistics and research say otherwise.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    Judith

    Families of adopted kids can throw up serious questions about nature & nurture. A mate of mine, now in his mid fifties, was a “stranger” adoptee along with two unrelated ‘brothers’ & three ‘sisters’.

    I knew the adoptive parents & although they weren’t perfect they did their level best to bring up the kids. The results were all over the place. Two of the boys did well along with one of the girls & have brought up great families themselves. The other three turned out to be absolute ratbags.

    They were all products of the late 50′s & early 60′s…..I wonder if their birth mothers weren’t impregnated by the macho no hopers that most teen girls find attractive.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. Judith (7,631 comments) says:

    @ nasska (9,300 comments) says:
    March 30th, 2014 at 6:44 pm

    Oh I agree, there were some wonderful adoptive parents that took their parental role seriously and provided everything the children they had adopted needed. There were even wonderful adopted parents that tried to provide it, but for some reason the adopted child never settled, and became dysfunctional people, despite the best efforts being applied to them.

    There are many variations of adoption and the results – as I said to Shawn, no single one experience is representative of them all.

    There were also parents that adopted children to ‘keep up appearances’, get the cheap State Advances loans, and for other more sinister reasons. Some adopted them with the best intentions, but found they were not prepared for what they got.
    (Just as many natural parents also did).

    My concern is primarily for those adopted children who never ‘fitted’, who for some unknown reason, but frequently suggested in research to do with the ‘ultimate separation’ never seem to be able to find contentment, and of course those who were abused by family members, who were technically not ‘family’ and therefore did not have the feelings of restraint that is usually felt.

    I remember a situation of an adopted young woman whose adopted parents were lovely. But she kept trying to kill herself. She said she had spent her entire life feeling like she was a ‘martian’ (that she didn’t belong). She eventually succeeded. I was privileged to read her diary. It was heartbreaking. Her adopted parents were campaigning for the practice of closed stranger adoption to be abolished. They believed that had their daughter been able to meet her family, and understand where she had come from, her life would have been different. But there was a veto on the file and she was never allowed to know that information.

    Which raises more issues about the rights of those children – but that is another subject.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Zapper (926 comments) says:

    Judith, you get worse by the day. Now you know more about a subject than someone who actually went through it?

    You’re a piece of work.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. Zapper (926 comments) says:

    Judith. Within 2 comments you made these 2 statements:

    1. There are many variations of adoption and the results – as I said to Shawn, no single one experience is representative of them all.

    2. Twenty years ago one of the top policemen in NZ was asked who was their most problematic group to deal with – his answer was adopted people “they all seem to have some sort of chip on their shoulder”

    You show hypocrisy within minutes! You’re all over the place, and clearly know nothing about this subject, which doesn’t stop you spouting off.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. Judith (7,631 comments) says:

    @ Zapper (825 comments) says:
    March 30th, 2014 at 7:09 pm

    Are you really that thick – the first comment was made referring to the experience of the adopted person, which Shawn said he was.

    The second was a comment referring to someone, who wasn’t adopted, was making about his experience WITH adopted people. I’m sure he hadn’t met every adopted person in NZ.

    Spot the difference?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Harriet (4,522 comments) says:

    Using lethal weapons on the unarmed has always been an act of cowardice!!!!!!

    And most women to some degree eventually break down over the issue. They killed their own baby. Their surviving children also suffer loss when they find out that their sibling has been killed. ‘What if’………..remains throughout the entire life of those who abort.

    Lindy Chamberlain has publicly said that “you never forget – you think about them nearly every day. There is no such thing as closure.” From memory Azaria was only about a month old when she died.

    No woman wins in the long term from an abortion. The loss is far too great. They killed their own – not someone elses – and what was the justification for killing their own- a trip to Bali? slimmer physical apperance? a better career ? They arn’t justifications and as a women grows older – they realise that!

    Killing your own has to be justified – or it will forever remain ‘unfinished business’ in the woman’s mind.

    The simple fact that abortion happens is that women are NOT fully informed about abortion and it’s negative consequences to their MENTAL HEALTH.

    FFS – they are not highly trained SAS soldiers or AOS officers. They’re vunerable pregnant women.

    ‘Mothers to be’ society used to call them!!!!!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. BlairM (2,287 comments) says:

    It’s not judgmental to say that abortion is murdering a child. It is murdering a child. If you don’t like the idea of murdering a child, then don’t do it! And if you have done it, then don’t whine about it when people call it what it is! Be a grownup and deal with the consequences of your actions.

    And all the folk who go on about “forcing women to have babies” are full of crap. It’s not a burden to refrain from killing a baby! If women are “forced to have babies”, then I’m “forced” to share oxygen with people who believe such nonsense. Boo hoo.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. dog_eat_dog (743 comments) says:

    Lindy Chamblerain’s baby was taken by a fucking dingo, let me know when that has any relevance whatsoever to terminating a pregnancy.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. wiseowl (763 comments) says:

    I think the guy has as much right to say what happens as the women.What about equality??

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    wiseowl

    Men don’t usually get pregnant.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. Zapper (926 comments) says:

    Heh. Judith. Calling me thick again when you are blatantly exposed. Sad old lady.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. ShawnLH (3,454 comments) says:

    “And you think because you had a positive experience that means everyone else did too Shawn?”

    Positive???

    I am all too aware of how difficult being adopted can be. Your arrogance is astounding.

    Difficult does not mean I would rather be dead.

    “I’ll speak for whoever I like”

    Unless your adopted you have no right. And to use adopted children’s difficulties to claim we would be better off dead is just plain sick.

    Get professional help. You clearly need it.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Harriet (4,522 comments) says:

    “….Lindy Chamblerain’s baby was taken by a fucking dingo, let me know when that has any relevance whatsoever to terminating a pregnancy…..”

    I’ll let you know the relevance right now: Pregnancy isn’t a 20 sec journey down the birth canal!!!!

    As I said, Azaria was about a month old – not a helluva lot of ‘bonding time’ according to feminists – y’know – the ones that suggest women should have up to a years paid maternity leave to ‘bond with their child’. With Lindy having only that limited amount of bonding time, and hasn’t forget by now about Azaria – then I’d think most pregnant women wouldn’t forget about their pregnancy either.

    I was using what Lindy said[you never forget, there is no such thing as closure] to reinforce the truth that a ‘mother’ never forgets.

    Think about it: A women looks out her kitchen window to see her two surviving children playing – do you really believe that they never ever think to themselves “What if?”. Or when the surviving children give birth them selves? They don’t forget!!!!

    BTW : When I saw the interview with Lindy – she was talking about Azaria – not the case itself[Lindy was being interviewed about her recent book 'Forgiveness']. Lindy said that she was asked in the street by a stranger, who asked her if she thought about Azaria, when Lindy replied that she did think about her most days and that you don’t forget, the women in the street said that she was pleased, as her child had recently died and she didn’t want to forget about them – and that she had been told by others “you will forget in time – there will be closure.”

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    Harriet

    Not all women are the same. There will be a few who will be scarred by the experience….equally there will be a few at the other extreme who will attach little significance to the event & get on with their lives. Most won’t be affected greatly.

    Women are not aborted at gunpoint & various of the Godaddled scream their opinions at every step along the path of the decision. You have no interest in the women’s welfare….it’s just another attempt to get your cult control over other peoples bodies & lives.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. ShawnLH (3,454 comments) says:

    “Women are not aborted at gunpoint”

    The children they kill might as well be, and various Godless atheist whakjobs seem to take great delight in killing millions of babies.

    Atheism is the cult of baby killing sickos.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    You are quite mad.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. RichardX (321 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (890 comments) says:
    March 30th, 2014 at 8:58 pm
    Atheism is the cult of baby killing sickos.

    Atheism is the lack of belief in the existence of god or gods

    To claim it is a cult, let alone one that kills babies is analogous to stating all Christians support pedophile priests

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. Fentex (867 comments) says:

    It would be best if all pregnancies were wanted and proceeded to healthy births into caring and loving families, it would be preferable that no one ever need to consider abortion.

    But wishing for that includes wishing away ignorance, rape and bad luck in health and circumstances.

    The best way to get closest to the ideal is good education, provision of fertility controls, personal empowerment and well prepared skilled services for enabling woman’s choices.

    A result of people being in charge of their fertility will be a minimal amount of abortions or other interventions caused by error, crime and confusion – much fewer than willful oppression, shaming and scheming against women will ever achieve.

    A problem with trying to hammer women into submission to others controlling their fertility is that it is the worst way to achieve the ambition of reducing the quantity of abortions and damaged births.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. Harriet (4,522 comments) says:

    “…..there will be a few at the other extreme who will attach little significance to the event & get on with their lives….”

    Yes of course I agree with you on the first part Nasska – women as you have often said can be very cruel.

    “…You have no interest in the woman’s welfare…”

    Is that the half that won’t be women?

    “…..various of the Godaddled scream their opinions at every step along the path of the decision….”

    All that you will find that the Christian Conservatives are asking is that people be responsable with their sexuality. Promiscuity has always been a fence that shouldn’t be crossed, for matters of disease and the reasonable good order of society. No one’s suggesting that should be illegal, but that it is not a good idea to suggest that it is appropriate behaviour. It does cost a lot of money to take care of sexual health, infancy, childhood, adolesent, adulthood, pregnant and aged. It should be pay as you go if you are sexually irresponsable. You are with the dentist.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. Zapper (926 comments) says:

    shawn, I agree judith needs help, she’s proven it time and again. But I’m a “Godless atheist” and I certainly do not believe in murder.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. Harriet (4,522 comments) says:

    “……A problem with trying to hammer women into submission to others controlling their fertility is that it is the worst way to achieve the ambition of reducing the quantity of abortions and damaged births…..”

    Abortion isn’t fertility. Abortion is a matter of finality of life.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. RichardX (321 comments) says:

    Harriet (3,944 comments) says:
    March 30th, 2014 at 9:13 pm
    Promiscuity has always been a fence that shouldn’t be crossed, for matters of disease and the reasonable good order of society. No one’s suggesting that should be illegal, but that it is not a good idea to suggest that it is appropriate behaviour. It does cost a lot of money to take care of sexual health, infancy, childhood, adolesent, adulthood, pregnant and aged. It should be pay as you go if you are sexually irresponsable.

    I won’t comment on the spelling mistakes as I know how much that annoys you
    I know you like to redefine words to suit your own purposes but what does that mean?
    Are you saying terminations are OK as long as they are paid for privately?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. kowtow (7,634 comments) says:

    Decriminalise abortion?

    WTF is she talking about? We basically have it on demand.

    How dare she mention Lent in a topic concerning the massacre of the innocent?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. ShawnLH (3,454 comments) says:

    Abortion is Liberal kiddie snuff porn. It’s what gets the Godless off.

    The twentieth century saw more people murdered by the atheist cult than any other ideology in human history. Stalin. Pol Pot. Mao. Cuba. North Korea. All atheist regimes. Add in abortion, and truly vast, almost unimaginable numbers of human beings have had their lives snuffed out by atheists, in one century alone. Because at it’s heart, atheism is worship of the self. It is Satanism.

    In any sane society atheism would be considered a mental disease, and it’s adherents shunned from civilization.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. Zapper (926 comments) says:

    shawn, you’ve now lost me completely. One of the worst comments I’ve seen here.

    Atheism is actually the exact opposite of Satanism, that comment alone shows your massive ignorance.

    The ideology you’re thinking of is communism.

    I think you and Judith might want to get help together.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. Fentex (867 comments) says:

    The ideology you’re thinking of is communism.

    More correctly totalitarianism – a more complete list would include the fascists (and any number of other past regimes), but that’s problematic for someone trying to make a connection with atheists as the fascists generally were not.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. gump (1,488 comments) says:

    @Harriet

    “Using lethal weapons on the unarmed has always been an act of cowardice!!!!!!”

    ——————————–

    Yes – this is the reason that I feel bad about insulting your ridiculous arguments.

    You lack the ability to defend your ideas.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. RichardX (321 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (894 comments) says:
    March 30th, 2014 at 9:46 pm
    Abortion is Liberal kiddie snuff porn. It’s what gets the Godless off.
    The twentieth century saw more people murdered by the atheist cult than any other ideology in human history. Stalin. Pol Pot. Mao. Cuba. North Korea. All atheist regimes. Add in abortion, and truly vast, almost unimaginable numbers of human beings have had their lives snuffed out by atheists, in one century alone. Because at it’s heart, atheism is worship of the self. It is Satanism.
    In any sane society atheism would be considered a mental disease, and it’s adherents shunned from civilization.

    The intellectual dishonesty of a ‘christian’ at its finest
    The stupidity that the absence of a belief in any sort of deity is a cult, let alone that it can lead to murder is astounding. Surely this cannot be an example of the Christian thought that gets taught at theological college. It is impossible to rationally argue that any of the dictators listed above did anything in the name of atheism. Atheism is not a cult, it is not the worship of anything. Only the truly deluded or brainwashed would believe such nonsense. The jury is still out about in to which camp you fall.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. gump (1,488 comments) says:

    @ShawnLH

    “The twentieth century saw more people murdered by the atheist cult than any other ideology in human history.”

    —————————–

    Stalin and Mao were atheists, but they didn’t murder anybody in the name of atheism.

    They murdered people in the name of political power and control.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    pre born babys/ children

    Pre caught child molester.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. edhunter (497 comments) says:

    And yet the population of the world has managed to to go from 2 billion to 7 billion within the last 100 yrs!!
    Child birth is not a fucking miracle, Mary wasn’t a fucking virgin & Joesph was a pussy whipped patsy.
    Big families are only traditionally big through a lack of choice & a historically high mortality rate. And the herbs and knowledge to perform abortions has been known for millennia.
    It’s been the church & by extension men who have claimed dominance over the female, her body and again by extension her womb, now women have a choice but there are still those who’d rather they were barefoot, pregnant, chained to the stove, beholden to a God (which god depends on where you have the fortune or misfortune to be born) and a husband whose word is law & must be obeyed.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. kowtow (7,634 comments) says:

    edhunter is the one who sounds like a “pussywhipped” fanny with all that bollox about dominance and stoves…….

    ed sounds like a feminist.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. Mark (1,363 comments) says:

    The irony is that eventually those that decide whether abortion should be legalised or not will not give a second thought to their own fate should their mothers have had the unfettered choice to terminate them.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. ChardonnayGuy (1,136 comments) says:

    And the other irony is that those anti-abortionists who whine about zygotes, embryos and fetuses incessantly seem to mostly be of the male gender and thus will never have to bodily and socially experience the consequences of unwanted pregnancy. Instead, they and their social conservative mates spread propaganda against contraception and responsible condom use to prevent the need for abortion rights in the first place. If men could get pregnant, etc etc…

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.