Russia will tremble

March 24th, 2014 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

New Zealand has joined the countries imposing travel bans on those Russian and Ukrainians seen as responsible for the crisis in Ukraine.

Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully today said New Zealand had made it clear that ’s actions regarding Ukraine and Crimea are unacceptable.

“We have confirmed that New Zealand will not recognise the outcome of the referendum in Crimea,” McCully said.

“Applying sanctions will position New Zealand alongside other members of the international community who have condemned the breach of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.”

Targeted individuals would be banned from obtaining visas to enter New Zealand.

“We will update and revise the list of those covered by the sanctions based on future developments,” he said.

Putin will be trembling I am sure.

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63 Responses to “Russia will tremble”

  1. berend (1,716 comments) says:

    McCully: “We have confirmed that New Zealand will not recognise the outcome of the referendum in Crimea.”

    And what are the people in Crimea going to do? When they are not recognised they will face issues with funding, banking, commerce, etc. etc. I.e. the people most punished will be those in Crimea. It seems to me that most of them are happy to stick with Russia.

    If we are for self-determination, why can’t the Crimeans get that?

    I keep the option open that I’m totally wrong, that the vote was a fraud, that this was a violent take over, and that most Crimeans rather would be part of the Ukraine, but quite unconvinced by that.

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  2. tvb (4,517 comments) says:

    These sanctions are symbolic as John Key made cheat in his TV3 interview. Putin thinks by turning inwards towards fortress Russia and snatching back parts of the old USSR will turn back the tide of history. It will not. There was nothing super about the old USSR. it was described as painted rust. But Putin thinks he can make Russia great by snatching back bits of the old empire.

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  3. EAD (1,331 comments) says:

    Disinformation, distortion & deception is reaching a peak. The American take-over of Ukraine is being spun as Russian aggression & ‘empire building’ – the exact opposite of the real situation of course.

    Anyone with with the ability to look at google maps & read a wikipedia entry could understand that.

    Sanctions won’t deter the Russians one bit – and America knows this. Again, anyone with a smattering of history will understand that Russia withstood both Napoleon & Hitler – and the Russian people are far tougher than any of the weakened & infantilised Western countries.

    What America (or rather their government) wants is for sanctions not to work – but for sanctions to so hurt the West that the manipulated & compliant populations here will feel the pain – and so be ready for harsher counter-measures for Russia – even war.

    The big elephant in the room is if Russia, China et. al get together and say we will only accept payment in gold, rather than paper for trade. The West’s ability to run never ending fiat funded trade deficits will be over and the people of the West will all of a sudden have a dramatic drop in their standard of living.

    You’re being suckered, people.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-22/how-china-imported-record-70-billion-physical-gold-without-sending-price-gold-soarin

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  4. iMP (2,422 comments) says:

    Send Milk.

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  5. Ryan Sproull (7,288 comments) says:

    If we are for self-determination, why can’t the Crimeans get that?

    The Government doesn’t want Tuhoe getting any ideas.

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  6. Harriet (5,145 comments) says:

    Well they got the choice between being independent and being part of Russia. How’s that unfair?

    The European Union is simply embarrassed that people would want to become part of Russia than the EU.

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  7. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Putin will be trembling I am sure.

    Yes, fair shaking in his boots!

    But have we all become a little complacent? For those that have lived through the cold war, and the seemingly constant threats of action – this seems all a little bit like ‘ho hum’ business as usual then.

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  8. lolitasbrother (751 comments) says:

    that right Mr Farrar Russia is terrified.
    The people of Crimea and East Ukraine are Russian citizens by choice and they are not subject to the Kiev liberals.
    I think we can watch as East Ukraine spells its wish to Russia.

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  9. lolitasbrother (751 comments) says:

    I saw on TV that two people died in the Russian usurp, acquisition of Crimea

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  10. wikiriwhis business (4,135 comments) says:

    Pffffffff

    The US goes into 22 countries in 20 years but Russia goes into the Ukraine and the media start a war against them

    This is utter crap

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  11. James Stephenson (2,233 comments) says:

    If we are for self-determination, why can’t the Crimeans get that?

    You can see the difference between the Ukrainian parliament running a referendum in Crimea, in the way that the UK will in Scotland and Russia running one while their soldiers and tanks are loitering outside the polling station, can’t you?

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  12. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    As is the case with most foreign policy edicts by NZ, it is largely symbolic. We have weighed up the benefits of siding with the Eastern bloc vs the opportunity for allying ourselves with NATO and US interests. The lesser of two evils.

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  13. Huevon (223 comments) says:

    Anyone with half a brain should see that this move has nothing to do with affecting the Russians and everything to do with NZ picking a side. For that reason, I agree with the sanctions. As odious and useless as the current generation US/European leaders are (with the exceptions of Tony Abbott and Stephen Harper), and despite all the contempt that I have for Obama, I would prefer to see NZ aligned with the English-speaking/Western nations than with any others. So good move Mr McCully!

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  14. All_on_Red (1,650 comments) says:

    The cynic in me would suggest that Putin is really after all the gas reserves in the Black Sea off Crimea, and he probably was forced to act because he could see that if Ukraine become part of the EU then those reserves would go too.
    Can’t have that can we. Got to keep Europe dependent on Russian gas.
    It supposed to be pretty big field. Wonder how long to get a permit for fracking in Crimea?
    The one thing Crimea is short on is water but apart from that, doesn’t really need Ukraine. So I’m not sure Putin will go further. It’s probably better financially for him to let the EU pay their bills, gas bills I mean.
    Maybe he’ll do that. Wait, take all the money and then move

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  15. emmess (1,433 comments) says:

    Proper sanctions that really target Putin’s cronies would have hurt.
    But this is all that is being offered by the major Western power’s so I guess we will have to go along with it I suppose, as it is better than nothing.

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  16. redqueen (583 comments) says:

    Yet more grandstanding. I am sure the Russians are quaking in their boots at the thought of us refusing them a few visas. By comparison, this shows the foregn ministry is far more in bed with the Americans than I’d thought, as we have no reason to be involved in this, yet are following the party line of ‘Russia Evil, Europe Good’. Absolutely blithering.

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  17. EAD (1,331 comments) says:

    “We have confirmed that New Zealand will not recognise the outcome of the referendum in Crimea,” McCully said.

    Well he would wouldn’t he. The “champions of democracy” here in New Zealand have got a history of doing things never mentioned in their manifestos and ignoring the wishes of the people in referendums:

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/nz-govts-have-proud-history-ignoring-referenda-results-ck

    Same for the EU who told Ireland, France & Holland to vote again or piss off when the little guys didn’t vote the way their Masters wanted: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/2200026/EU-Constitution-author-says-referendums-can-be-ignored.html

    Our version of “democracy” is a sick joke

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  18. wikiriwhis business (4,135 comments) says:

    Putin ally suggests sanctions have backfired

    “What happens the day after a bank gets in trouble? Everyone pulls their money out. The morning after (the sanctions were announced), everyone was ready to see depositors take their money out. Journalists were standing by. Nobody came,” he said.

    “And when in the afternoon it was announced … that Putin would open an account, the bank was flooded with people. All kinds of people – famous people, ordinary people. They came to open accounts in Bank Rossiya.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/9860927/Putin-ally-suggests-sanctions-have-backfired

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  19. Jack5 (5,167 comments) says:

    If we were consistent in keeping trade and economics separate from our politics, as in our relations with China, NZ would have shut up about Ukraine v. Russia and proceeded with the nearly clinched free trade agreement with Russia.

    We haven’t got a lot of trade with Russia, but its handy for our non-milk-powder exports including meat, apples etc, butter, and there has to be a market there (and in Ukraine) for our agribusinesses.

    However, McCully brings to mind the perhaps apocryphal editorial article in a tiny West Coast newspaper more than a century ago which included the words: “We have repeatedly warned the Tsar.”

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  20. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    Of course on this day in 1999 the USA under Billy Clinton began bombing the crap out of Yugoslavia to steal the ancient Orthodox Christian Province of Serbia, Kosovo from Serbia and hand it to the Muslim Albanians.

    But thats ok because it was an adulterous Anglo Saxon American who did it.

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  21. wikiriwhis business (4,135 comments) says:

    “I would prefer to see NZ aligned with the English-speaking/Western nations than with any others. So good move Mr McCully!”

    Pfffffff…..National is giving us to China. Labour obviously would anyway

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  22. lolitasbrother (751 comments) says:

    The oil pipes from Russia through Ukraine to Europe will convince you.
    The Ukraine western alliance is pathetic.
    Ukraine is Russia.
    The liberals in Ukraine think they can divert the power, and suck Germany EU, money dream
    here is Russia big bear

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  23. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    “We have confirmed that New Zealand will not recognise the outcome of the referendum in Crimea,” McCully said.

    What McCully is implying is that New Zealand has got its head stuck up its arse.

    The referendum is a fact, the outcome of this fact is that a mandate exists for Crimea to secede from Ukraine and join the Russian federation.

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  24. Ashley Schaeffer (513 comments) says:

    Yet more hypocritical grandstanding from the West.

    “We have confirmed that New Zealand will not recognise the outcome of the referendum in Crimea,” McCully said.

    It’s not really about recognising the referendum is it. It’s about recognising the reality of the situation. Just as we don’t really like what China did in Tibet but recognise it’s not something we have a lot of influence over.

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  25. BlairM (2,365 comments) says:

    It’s embarassing to see NZ siding with the Ukrainian fascists instead of the democratically elected government. As if what replaced it is remotely legitimate! And then they complain when the Crimeans, understandably wary of the instability of the situation, want to remove themselves from it!

    The whole thing is a joke engineered by bigots pining for the heady days of the Cold War.

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  26. Jack5 (5,167 comments) says:

    Andrei is correct about the Kosovo precedent.

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  27. BlairM (2,365 comments) says:

    Just as we don’t really like what China did in Tibet but recognise it’s not something we have a lot of influence over.

    I’m perfectly comfortable with what China did in Tibet. It’s a sad commentary on the state of prior Tibetian government that Mao was probably a step up for them. People only want to “free Tibet” because of dopey hippies who think gongs and drums and Buddhist monks are cool.

    I couldn’t care less if there is a “Free Tibet”. I want a free China. Let’s worry about Chinese freedom first!

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  28. emmess (1,433 comments) says:

    It’s embarassing to see NZ siding with the Ukrainian fascists

    Let’s just say your swallowing of Putin’s propaganda is correct and the new Ukrainian are fascists and neo-nazis
    What sort of pathetic neo-nazi’s don’t fight back against an attack on their country and fight alongside Jews?

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  29. BlairM (2,365 comments) says:

    emmess – did Putin photoshop all the red and black flags at the protests? I know a lot of Western media were very keen to only show photographs without them.

    Who do you think is “securing” Kiev right now?

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  30. Ed Snack (1,927 comments) says:

    I suggest we start by taking over a certain large luxury vessel sitting in Wellington Harbour, owned by a business crony of Putin’s (obviously a crony as he’s not in prison). I’m sure it could be usefully re-deployed somewhere as a unit in the NZ Navy.

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  31. JMS (342 comments) says:

    BlairM –

    For all it’s faults the new government in Kiev has the support of the vast majority of parliament.

    The real thugs are sitting in the Kremlin.

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  32. cha (4,084 comments) says:

    Aww, cute, Kiwi bloggers agree with the folks at the Daily Stormer.
    /

    http://www.dailystormer.com/in-crimea-every-free-human-in-the-world-won/

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  33. JMS (342 comments) says:

    cha,

    don’t show BlairM

    he won’t know which fascists to support and which to oppose.

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  34. stephieboy (3,413 comments) says:

    Andrei , your take on the Yugoslavia wars !( 1990-9 ) presents a highly simplistic pro slav and Serbian stance. The series of conflicts grew initially out of the dissolution of the Socialist Yugoslavia on the heels of the collapse of the Soviet Union.The real catalyst for the conflict was the desire of Slovenia and Croatia seeking greater autonomy and self determination. This conflicted the desire desire of Slobodan Milošević and the Serbian leadership to establish a greater Serbia within the old Yugoslavia.
    There was no evidence of US and NATO led Conspiracy of intervention to wrest control of the region.The bombing of Serbia was only initiated due to the refusal of Milošević and his leadership to respect the desire of Croatia and Slovenia etc for greater Independence .
    It’s possible that Putin might feel there is unfinished business there,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars

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  35. stephieboy (3,413 comments) says:

    Christopher Hitchens excellent article on the Serbs self inflicted wounds on the succession of Kosovo etc ,

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2008/02/the_serbs_selfinflicted_wounds.html

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  36. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    For all it’s faults the new government in Kiev has the support of the vast majority of parliament.

    Lol the current Rada (Parliament) is composed of deputies the armed thugs of the Maidan will allow to enter and not of those denied entry by those same thugs by intimidation,

    This isn’t democracy it is an armed coup d’etat.

    Anyway both the Prime Minister and President are figure heads put in that position because they look like Western technocrats and look good on Western TV Screens – they’ll be dead before too long, assassinated – Putin will get the blame but the real culprits will be the power behind the revolution – the “good guys” Obama is backing.

    Obama has a remarkable talent for backing factions that represent the forces of chaos and darkness

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  37. JMS (342 comments) says:

    the current Rada (Parliament) is composed of deputies the armed thugs of the Maidan will allow to enter and not of those denied entry by those same thugs by intimidation,

    sounds more like a Crimean polling booth.

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  38. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    I suggest we start by taking over a certain large luxury vessel sitting in Wellington Harbour, owned by a business crony of Putin’s

    I wonder if there are people out there who believe that this is anything more than a bad humour.

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  39. Richard Hurst (874 comments) says:

    The two deciding what happens in this are the US and Russia. The Ukraine and the EU will have to go along with whatever is decided. So Obama should do a deal with Putin. They can have the Crimea without any further serious opposition from the West or the Ukraine but in exchange Russia has to get out of Syria, stop supplying arms etc to the regime and close their naval facility in Tartus. Syria for the Crimea- not a bad exchange and it gets Russian out of the Med while Russian naval presence in the Black sea is secured. It would have to be done secretly of course (if secrecy even exists anymore post Wiki leaks) and if either party try to cheat on the deal- well a sudden inflow of arms in retaliation through third parties are difficult things to track or stop in Syria or to Ukrainian nationalists.

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  40. JMS (342 comments) says:

    The two deciding what happens in this are the US and Russia. The Ukraine and the EU will have to go along with whatever is decided.

    The EU, if it wanted to, could exert far more pressure on Russia than the US could. Any serious economic sanctions applied by the EU would hurt their own economies, but would send Russia’s into a tail spin.

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  41. cha (4,084 comments) says:

    This.

    http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/putinism-as-a-model-for-western-europe-s-extreme-right-by-marcel-h–van-herpen#2zurZyEI33IJEWqP.99

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  42. emmess (1,433 comments) says:

    This isn’t democracy it is an armed coup d’etat.

    Bullshit Andrei, stop the Gramscian tactic of redefining language

    A coup d’état (/ˌkuːdeɪˈtɑː/; French: blow of state; plural: coups d’état), also known as a coup, a putsch, or an overthrow, is the sudden and illegal seizure of a government, usually instigated by a small group of the existing state establishment—typically the military—to depose the established government and replace it with a new ruling body, civil or military. A coup d’état is considered successful when the usurpers establish their dominance.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup

    It was a revolution not a coup

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  43. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Interesting link cha. Any Putin would seem to have a few similar fans here on Kiwiblog.

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  44. MT_Tinman (3,259 comments) says:

    BlairM (2,257 comments) says:
    March 24th, 2014 at 11:19 am
    I couldn’t care less if there is a “Free Tibet”. I want a free China. Let’s worry about Chinese freedom first!

    Fuck China, I want a free New Zealand.

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  45. cha (4,084 comments) says:

    .

    Indeed miken. Seems it’s all about women knowing their place and whether or not people are indulging in the right kind of sex.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/putins-paleoconservative-moment/

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  46. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Isn’t New Zealand already rated the freest country in the world?

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  47. emmess (1,433 comments) says:

    emmess – did Putin photoshop all the red and black flags at the protests?

    No one is denying there weren’t fascists involved in the protests but their are fascists supporting Putin too. You know it is a complete lie to characterize the Ukranian government as fascist, the Russian government comes much closer to that definition.
    There were no doubt a lot of fascists who supported the collapse of communism, maybe we should just give back all central and eastern Europe?

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  48. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    If Crimea wanted to secede from Ukraine then bringing in the Russian Army is not the way to go about it.

    The ‘referendum’ is immediately illegitimate because of the presence of Putin’s forces in Crimea and around Ukraine.

    The President of Ukraine was removed by the people of Ukraine not primarily from pro-Western, anti-Russian sentiments, but because of anti-kleptocracy frustration.

    Putin will keep going until the push back stops him. Eastern Ukraine is next in his sights unless someone does something to scare him, which the navel-gazing lot in the White House will have a meeting on in September (with 20 something parties to it, also unlikely to resolve anything).

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  49. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    I wonder why the USA included this nice woman in their bad people list?

    Will Murray McCully follow suit?

    Of course the ravings of Cha and mikenmild point to the reason why the State department included her and it has zilch to do with Crimea

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  50. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    The ‘referendum’ is immediately illegitimate because of the presence of Putin’s forces in Crimea and around Ukraine.

    Non sequitur. There is no reason to believe that Putin’s forces were involved in any coercion leading up to or during the referendum.

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  51. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Andrei
    I can’t find if Yelena Mizulina is on NZ’s list. In fact, I can’t find any details of who is on that list, but I assume it will be similar to other countries’.

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  52. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (2,415 comments) says:
    March 24th, 2014 at 2:28 pm
    The ‘referendum’ is immediately illegitimate because of the presence of Putin’s forces in Crimea and around Ukraine.

    Non sequitur. There is no reason to believe that Putin’s forces were involved in any coercion leading up to or during the referendum.

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    What was the time between the announcement and the completion of the referendum?

    Somewhere around 48-72 hrs iirc. Nothing to see here. 48hrs is ample time for political groups to organise and debates to be held surely.

    Do you know if the Ukrainian forces locked up in the Crimea got to vote. I also wonder what happens to them now? I guess deportation to Ukraine is off the cards if Putin has plans there.

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  53. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    Do you know if the Ukrainian forces locked up in the Crimea got to vote. I also wonder what happens to them now?

    They can join the Russian Army at equivalent rank (with higher pay because the Russian army pays better) , leave the Army or move to mainland Ukraine where presumably they would still be members of the Ukrainian military

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  54. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,754 comments) says:

    WAR

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  55. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,754 comments) says:

    Out of the ashes of Criimea comes first sorrow. Then; anger!
    ‘The only Good Bug is a Dead Bug.’

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  56. Johnboy (17,007 comments) says:

    Andrey Melnichenko isn’t trembling. Perhaps he is spreading mucho fertiliser over our 100% pure land to ease his passage! :)

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  57. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    wave your new pink rag at them

    or is it going to have a WHITE FEATHER

    that’s right we can’t say white anymore

    a Multicultural Multi coloured Feather

    We have secured “Milk Powder in our Time”

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  58. V (750 comments) says:

    @Sonny Blount

    I assume the elections in Iraq and Afghanistan are also immediately illegitimate because those countries were fair crawling with US troops during those elctions?

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  59. V (750 comments) says:

    Nothing to see here folks!
    You want to see a rigged election, wait til these chaps do their intimidation routine on election day in the Ukraine.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5GeBpZ5VHY

    If NZ is going to put sanctions on Russia/Crimea, we should at least sanction the Ukraine until they return to an elected parliament free from intimidation.

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  60. V (750 comments) says:

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  61. stephieboy (3,413 comments) says:

    I note that there appears to be some frustration and anger as to the Wests and Obama’s feeble response to the Crimean crises.
    It would be useful to know what those critics would propose in terms of an effective military response short of the need for the public to build fallout shelters.?

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  62. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,754 comments) says:

    I thinks those critics believe in the Wests good intentions, again and again and again.

    It’s all rainbows and unicorns for them.

    15 years on: Looking back at NATO’s ‘humanitarian’ bombing of Yugoslavia

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  63. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,754 comments) says:

    Here is the documentary on that article:

    ЗАШТО? (Why?)

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