Arrested for quoting Churchill in England

April 30th, 2014 at 2:00 pm by David Farrar

The Telegraph reports:

A candidate in the European elections has been arrested after making a speech quoting from a book by Winston Churchill about .

Paul Weston, chairman of the far right Liberty GB party, was making the speech on the steps of Winchester Guildhall, Hampshire, on Saturday, when a member of the public complained to police and he was arrested.

He had been reading from Churchill’s book The River War, written in 1899 while he was a British army officer in Sudan.

Mr Weston, who is standing as a candidate in the South East European elections on May 22, was detained after he failed to comply with a request by police to move on under the powers of a dispersal order made against him and he was arrested on suspicion of religious/racial harassment.

It’s quite outrageous.

Just as David Irving should be allowed to talk in public on how he thinks the Holocaust is a hoax, people should be allowed to speak in public about their dislike of particular religions.

I’m damn sure if someone was making a speech attacking Christianity, they would not be arrested.

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102 Responses to “Arrested for quoting Churchill in England”

  1. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Wussel the Wimp would have that occurring here, along with hate speech, applying to forums such as this. Time people awoke to the menace “Tojo” and “The Wimp” pose to the citizens of NZ that do the paying.

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  2. tas (623 comments) says:

    There is an excerpt on wikipedia and the full text is here.

    I don’t see anything that could remotely justify police involvement. Churchill’s comments are definitely not PC, but they are earnest.

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  3. Brian Smaller (4,015 comments) says:

    Welcome to the multi-culti UK – where you can never say anything may offend your Islamic masters. I know the article doesn’t say it but you can bet your bottom dollar who complained – either a highly offended Muslim or one of their useful idiots.

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  4. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    The UK has almost changed into an Islamic country, ruled by fear of offending that violent and barbaric cult.
    A once proud England is now on its knees awaiting the beheading, while the savage Muslims rejoice.

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  5. Bob R (1,363 comments) says:

    Churchill would wonder why they even fought World War II now. The country he knew has surrendered to a new form of totalitarianism with barely a whimper.

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  6. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    What next ! Someone arrested for quoting Hitler in relation to Jews ?

    Manolo “almost” an Islamic country ? They have Sharia law there and the most popular boys name is Mohammed. (may lice be upon him)

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  7. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    Same thing in Oz.

    Radio Aotearoa reporting here how the ethnics are not happy with Abbots’ attempt to repeal 18C.The one that criminalised Bolt.

    radio Aotearoa would cover it from that angle ,as they don’t believe in free speech.

    Same thing in formerly free USA where that Sterling fellow is being hung out to dry.

    Freedom in the west is dead,thanks to the cultural marxists.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/tim_wilson_yes_the_laws_against_our_free_speech_are_broken/

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  8. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    3,2,1. UT is about to arrive any second to defend his “enlightened” and primitive masters.

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  9. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    another attack on libraries I see as well.

    As with the New World Order, when one man fails, (Rodney Hide) another takes his place.

    The devil bides his time till he can return

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  10. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “3,2,1. UT is about to arrive any second to defend his “enlightened” and primitive masters.”

    Pfffffffffff

    UT is more Churchillian than Islamic

    How you devils twist the truth on this blog

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  11. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Yet week after week Anjem Chourdray gets away with saying things far worse than this.

    The UK really needs to do something about this issue, the islamists have played their hand brilliantly, they will not allow anybody to speak out against them yet they are ready and waiting to inform on anybody who dares speak the truth about their stone age barbarism.

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  12. TheContrarian (1,085 comments) says:

    “the most popular boys name is Mohammed.”
    No it isn’t:
    http://www.babycentre.co.uk/a25008171/top-baby-boy-names-2013
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2528429/How-brown-cow-From-Imogen-Isla-Asher-Oliver-2013s-popular-baby-names-reveal-growing-trend-vowels.html
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-23663337

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  13. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    Yep, the UK is doomed.

    Sweden too – they have passed a law (coming into effect after Christmas this year) that makes it an offense to criticise the government’s immigration policy.

    France? It has 750 “ZUS” zones – areas that Muslims control and where even emergency services are reluctant to go.

    The only parts of the West that remain more or less “free speech” are New Zealand and Japan.

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  14. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    BAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

    England is fucked.

    They should voluntarily give up their Nukes now.

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  15. Bob R (1,363 comments) says:

    ***I’m damn sure if someone was making a speech attacking Christianity, they would not be arrested***

    Probably correct. Apparently attacks on Christian churches in the UK are overlooked by media.

    “This is a widespread problem now in the UK, and it’s rarely reported in the press.

    Every church in my town has been systematically attacked over the last few years. My own church was attacked for the 4th time last Saturday night. There’s nothing left worth stealing and the Moslims know it, so they simply vandalised the place—they smashed doors, chairs, pulpit and crockery. They ripped up the children’s books and picture displays, and “soiled” their store of sweets and biscuits. So, instead of Morning Service we had a cleanup work party instead.

    I doubt if even the local papers will report this attack. Over the last four years I’ve only seen two such attacks briefly covered (without mentioning Moslims), and nothing at all in the national media.

    I’m most troubled by the unreasonable silence of our denomination’s own papers and magazines. They’re published in London, and are so supine that they never give a clue what we pew-fodder are actually facing from Moslims all over the country. I’m beginning to think that even our non-conformist Church leadership has joined the Christian-hating London elite!”

    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/010144.html

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  16. backster (2,152 comments) says:

    Should people be allowed to talk in private to their wifeas to what they think of an ethnicity of people.?

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  17. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “The only parts of the West that remain more or less “free speech” are New Zealand and Japan.”

    And Japan is a radio active cancer zone we have no real idea about.

    No Japper vehicle for me no matter how many letters to the editor the heads of car importing write.

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  18. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    I find myself spending so much time fighting hypocricy and bias that I do not have time to talk about this as much as I would like. In the UK people have been arrested for reporting on the violent hate speech of Islamic radicals. The people making the speech were not arrested. The UK is lost. I regard them as cultural traitors and a sell out.

    There is no need to persecute anyone or give them a hard time. I believe in religious freedom and liberty. However, that does not stop us from making rules about what is acceptable for those who chose to live here. If we go to Saudi Arabia we observe their customs. If they come here they respect our customs.

    It is not about religion. It is about common decency, respect and tolerance for our differences. Much the same as if I came to your house for dinner.

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  19. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    John Cleese has just spoken of London being English no longer

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  20. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    backster – yes. They should be allowed to say it in public too, provided that they realise people will judge them for what they say.

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  21. Ashley Schaeffer (475 comments) says:

    Only a bloody revolution can arrest the decline now. It’s that serious. Do modern Britons have the fortitude to do what is necessary? I doubt it. Paralysed by the mental disease that is Liberalism.

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  22. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    “the most popular boys name is Mohammed.”
    No it isn’t:

    The Contrarian: Bullshit.

    Different regions spell Mohammed differently. They list the different spellings as different names to hide the truth. When all spellings of Mohammed are combined it is the most popular boys name in the UK

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  23. TheContrarian (1,085 comments) says:

    “The Contrarian: Bullshit.”

    The facts say differently bro. It was the most popular in 2010 and 2011 (different spellings were in fact taken into account) but no longer.

    “When all spellings of Mohammed are combined it is the most popular boys name in the UK”
    Citation needed

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  24. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    What gets *me* is that even the *militaries* of these sellout Western countries have become pussies.
    Do *they* not see that their countries are being undermined and destroyed?
    If so, they are not doing anything about it.

    In summary – it is far too late for elections to change anything in that part of the world.
    Warfare *could* remove the Islamic threat but both the armies and citizens are too cowardly to use it.
    So… goodbye Europe and the UK.

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  25. Sequel (13 comments) says:

    In the Otago Daily Times a few weeks ago one of the letters to the editor said that denying man-made climate change should be a crime and people prosecuted under hate speech laws. I don’t know if the writer was being sarcastic or not, but the tone of the letter suggested not. I suspect he would get the support of many Green voters.

    Very frightening …

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  26. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    Don’t blame the Islamics for this.

    The blame is squarely with the permanent political class in the UK that has become utterly demoralised /or totally surrendered to the dictates of cultural marxism.

    I think there could be a political revolution in the making.If UKIp can break the mould.But it will have to be brave enough to stand up to what will be thrown at them.Farage has already backed off on same sex marriage.

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  27. Bob R (1,363 comments) says:

    ***I’m damn sure if someone was making a speech attacking Christianity, they would not be arrested***

    Further to this, Auster had an excellent essay explaining this double standard inherent in liberalism:

    “Hayek argued in the Mirage of Social Justice, equality of results can only be pursued by treating people unequally. This is the origin of the double standard…

    Moreover, since socialism has been discredited following the fall of Soviet Communism, the left has for tactical reasons largely shifted its demand for equality of results away from the economic sphere to the cultural/moral sphere and the advancement of “oppressed” cultural and ethnic groups. The result is cultural socialism, which entails the same kind of bureaucratically imposed egalitarian “solution” as existed under the older socialism, and thus leads to a cultural double standard. This cultural double standard goes something like this: Since “we” (e.g., whites, Westerners, Christians, men, conservatives, Americans, the U.S. armed forces, Republicans, and heterosexuals) constitute an allegedly dominant group in society and are better off than the “Other” (e.g., nonwhites, non-Westerners, Moslems, women, liberals, immigrants, enemy combatants, Democrats, and homosexuals), our superior position violates the imperative of equality. In order for the desired state of equality to be attained, we, the unfairly dominant group, must be condemned, excluded, and dragged down, while the Other must be celebrated, included, and raised up. In short, in the name of equality, society is divided into two radically distinct groups, to which radically different rules apply.”

    http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=11868

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  28. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    “Don’t blame the Islamics for this.”

    Nor do I Katie.

    I blame white middle class pricks.

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  29. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @kowtow – “Don’t blame the Islamics for this.

    The blame is squarely with the permanent political class in the UK that has become utterly demoralised /or totally surrendered to the dictates of cultural marxism. ”

    Fair comment kowtow. To use an analogy – the foolish political class in the UK cleared out the cultural landscape and Islam has well and truly fully taken advantage of that space, smothering everything else in the process.

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  30. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    3,2,1. UT is about to arrive any second to defend his “enlightened” and primitive masters.

    Sorry I wasn’t here earlier, infidels…

    Islam is about submission to Allah, not submission to Muslims.

    Religion and politics don’t mix well, especially when you’re talking about empire.

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  31. gump (1,638 comments) says:

    @Kea

    Muhammad is the most common name for boys born in London.

    It is not the most common name for boys born in Great Britain (and never has been).

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  32. Brian Smaller (4,015 comments) says:

    Islam is about submission to Allah, not submission to Muslims.

    Yeah Right. You don’t pay the jizya to Allah, you pay it to his earthly agents.

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  33. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    gump, I note you no longer consider London part of the UK. I tend to agree ;)

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  34. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Just found Britain’s problem

    ”Time after time, Britain has led the way in scientific research – only to see the commercial benefits accrue overseas,” finance minister George Osborne told a gathering of scientists in Cambridge last week.

    ”For decades we have done too little to turn British ingenuity into commercial success.’

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/9993131/Graphene-could-change-human-existence

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  35. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “gump, I note you no longer consider London part of the UK. I tend to agree”

    UK isn’t run by LOndon anyway but the EU

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  36. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @UglyTruth – “Religion and politics don’t mix well,”

    Religion and politics mix *perfectly* in Islam. They are one and the same – they can’t be separated.

    Having said that, Islam is a totalitarian political cult-like ideology with only a thin veneer of religion. Religion is in fact the smallest part of Islam. Mohammad preached in Mecca for 10 years and only gained about 150 followers. When he moved to Medina, however, he became a political and military leader and Islam took off.
    Islam’s existence is hugely dependent on political and military doctrine.

    http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=34830

    http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/

    http://www.inquiryintoislam.com/2010/11/basic-elements-of-islam.html

    http://www.inquiryintoislam.com/

    http://www.citizenwarrior.com/

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  37. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    On the up side, a great way to boost book sales if its still in print ! :-)

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  38. Ashley Schaeffer (475 comments) says:

    Liberalism will have been able to achieve in just a few short decades what Islam was unable to achieve in centuries – the Islamic takeover of Western Europe. Russia is fortunate to have a leader like Putin who may well be a nasty bastard, but at least he won’t oversee the cultural destruction of his own country and people. Western Europe will be ripe for another Hitler to rise if the will of the native populations continue to be ignored. They don’t want immigration from Islamic countries.

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  39. gump (1,638 comments) says:

    @Kea

    I guess you skipped the day that set theory was taught at your school.

    Please find an adult to explain it to you.

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  40. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yeah Right. You don’t pay the jizya to Allah, you pay it to his earthly agents.

    The root meaning of jizya is compensation, and the context is of the treaty of Hudaibiyah, which brought about a relative peace.

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  41. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @Ashley Schaeffer – “Russia is fortunate to have a leader like Putin who may well be a nasty bastard, but at least he won’t oversee the cultural destruction of his own country and people.”

    Correct indeed, and the same goes for China. Japan too.

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  42. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Religion and politics mix *perfectly* in Islam. They are one and the same – they can’t be separated.

    Wrong.

    Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error.
    The Quran, Surah 2:256

    Speaking of mixing religion and politics, perhaps you have heard of the Westminster system?

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  43. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    As it happens, the biggest ‘safe space’ on the planet is the Muslim world. For a millennium, Islamic scholars have insisted, as firmly as a climate scientist or an American sophomore, that there’s nothing to debate. And what happened? As the United Nations Human Development Programme’s famous 2002 report blandly noted, more books are translated in Spain in a single year than have been translated into Arabic in the last 1,000 years.

    Free speech and a dynamic, innovative society are intimately connected: a culture that can’t bear a dissenting word on race or religion or gender fluidity or carbon offsets is a society that will cease to innovate, and then stagnate, and then decline, very fast.

    This is the world these barbaric and savage Islamists want for the West.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/australia/australia-features/9187741/the-slow-death-of-free-speech-2/

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  44. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @UglyTruth –

    Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error.
    The Quran, Surah 2:256

    http://skeptic-mind.blogspot.co.nz/2011/07/verse-in-chapter-2-verse256-says-there.html

    http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/91013

    http://answering-islam.org/Hahn/mappe.html

    Three pages (from many) mentioning the abrogation of that verse.

    Quote from the last page – “The Hadith obviously state that the apostate from Islam should be executed. Since the Qur’an also states that Muslims are to obey the Prophet as well as the Book, Qur’an 2:256 can have application only for non-Muslims. Muslims must be compelled to remain Muslim. “

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  45. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “UT is more Churchillian than Islamic

    How you devils twist the truth on this blog”

    Seems I owe everyone an apology. UT is an Islamic apologist.

    Still tickets to England available for him.

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  46. Longknives (4,691 comments) says:

    This is equally disturbing-
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2575759/Revealed-Islamist-plot-dubbed-Trojan-Horse-string-schools-Birmingham-self-styled-Jihad.html

    I got a lot of flak here a while back for suggesting that England would be an Islamic State in 50 years (The Royal family will live in exile)…I stand by that assertion.

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  47. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    This is the world these barbaric and savage Islamists want for the West.

    Cicero used the word “human” to distinguish between Romans an the non-Roman “barbarians”, as if infanticide, circuses, and torturing people to death by nailing them to something wooden wasn’t particularly barbaric…

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  48. Brian Smaller (4,015 comments) says:

    The root meaning of jizya is compensation, and the context is of the treaty of Hudaibiyah, which brought about a relative peace.

    You pay or get your stuff stolen and/or you get murdered. That is the reality of 21st C Islam’s interpretation of it.

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  49. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Seems I owe everyone an apology. UT is an Islamic apologist.

    I’m quite happy to criticize Muslims when they deserve it, for example their poor treatment of women. But I’m definitely not going to let bigots like Manolo blame them for what is in part an exercise in Western radicalization and manipulation.

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  50. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    The biggest barrier to Islam is freedom of expression. A properly informed public will not tolerate religious extremists. That is why religious groups are so hysterical about their faith being critised and called to account. (Something not confined to Islam, as debates on KB demonstrate.)

    Of course this key battle has been lost. NZ & the UK have “hate speech” laws, along with nonsense laws against causing “offense”. I note many on KB are vocally and strongly in support of such laws, wrongly believing it prevents their preferred group being held to account.

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  51. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You pay or get your stuff stolen and/or you get murdered. That is the reality of 21st C Islam’s interpretation of it.

    It’s not unusual for protection rackets to operate under the guise of some title of honour .
    Can you tell me where this happens and how widespread it is?

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  52. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @UglyTruth – “…bigots like Manolo… ”

    http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/08/what-about-good-verses-in-quran.html

    Quote – “So there is nothing positive in the Quran for non-Muslims. Period. And there are 527 verses in the Quran that are intolerant to non-Muslims, 109 verses calling on Muslims to make war on non-Muslims.”

    527 intolerant verses –
    http://dttj.blogspot.co.nz/2010/08/intolerance-toward-non-muslims-in-quran.html

    109 “make war on non-Muslims” verses –
    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

    Manolo is positively *angelic* compared to the Quran.

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  53. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    thor42, at times like this I like to refer to the good book for guidence. The Christian Bible:

    Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

    Kill Nonbelievers

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

    Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

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  54. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    What an absolute fuckin disgrace…DPF you should install some sorrt of permanent link to this post so that every time some clown tells us we have nothing to worry about with continuing muslim immigration this post comes up .. unless we r bloody careful this is OUR future. ..

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  55. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    @thor42,

    This is from the first link you posted.

    Not only is there plenty of intolerance toward non-Muslims in the Quran, as the following 527 passages show, but out of the 245 passages in the Quran that are positive to non-Muslims, every last one of them have been abrogated.

    What the Quran says about abrogation is it always results in something better. Either the author of your site doesn’t know what he or she is talking about, or they are deliberately trying to incite hatred of Muslims.

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  56. Psycho Milt (2,411 comments) says:

    I have to say that “jizya” doesn’t sound very pleasant at all.

    Islam is about submission to Allah, not submission to Muslims.

    Which puts the bloke who’s deciding what Allah wants in a pretty fucking sweet position, eh?

    Also: interesting to note that the Telegraph doesn’t report what Winnie had to say on the subject, presumably because the staff don’t want servants of government to turn up and slap the cuffs on them. Freedom of speech really is a dead letter over there.

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  57. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @Kea – so you quote a few *Old* Testament verses to make Islam look good in comparison. Big deal.

    Apart from that being a “Tu Quoque” response, it completely ignores the fact that Christianity can (and *has*) changed over the centuries, whereas Islam is set in stone for all eternity and can not be changed. The Quran is seen by Muslims as the final, perfect word of Allah.

    But hey – if you want to play the “non-Muslim against the Muslim world” game, I can play too.
    Never mind that this is “argumentam ad numeram” – no problem……

    https://www.politicalislam.com/tears/pages/tears-of-jihad/

    That page gives an estimate of the number of people killed by Muslims. 270 million.

    I await your figure for the number of people that Christianity has killed.

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  58. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Which puts the bloke who’s deciding what Allah wants in a pretty fucking sweet position, eh?

    Not really.

    Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error.
    The Quran, Surah 2:256

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  59. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @UglyTruth – “What the Quran says about abrogation is it always results in something better”

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Farooq_Ibrahim/abrogation.htm

    Surah 2:106:

    “None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?”

    “Better” for MUSLIMS. Not non-Muslims.

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  60. Gulag1917 (884 comments) says:

    The lunatic fringe strike again re this arrest.

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  61. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Better” for MUSLIMS. Not non-Muslims.

    No, the text does not say that abrogations are made in favour of Muslims. Allah is often described as being merciful, so better could be interpreted that way.

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  62. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Come on Ugly, tell us all that Islam is the religion of peace….lol

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  63. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    whereas Islam is set in stone for all eternity and can not be changed.

    Please refer to your own post of 4:24 re abrogation of Islamic doctrine…

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  64. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    I see Kea @ 4:00pm is under attack from down ticking intolerant Muslim extremists who hate the enlightened word of the Holly Bible. :) :)

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  65. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Come on Ugly, tell us all that Islam is the religion of peace

    It’s founded on the same principles of justice as Judaism.

    And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. But whoso forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it shall be expiation for him. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.
    Surah 5:45

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  66. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @UglyTruth – “Allah is often described as being merciful…… ”

    Oh gee…… I’ve been studying Islam informally for about 14 years – tell me something I don’t know……

    Gee… that “being merciful” is no doubt why the Quran (said by Muslims to be the word of Allah) contains over 500 verses intolerant of non-Muslims and over 100 calling on Muslims to wage war against non-Muslims (as I’ve already pointed out).

    Oh, how very “merciful….” *rolls eyes*

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  67. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Oh, how very “merciful….” *rolls eyes*

    You’re the one who promoting the perverted interpretation of abrogration, not Islam.

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  68. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    thor42, I am sure all are impressed by your extensive knowledge of the Quran. It might be time to turn your impressive intellect loose on the Bible.

    (Study hint: Open BOTH eyes while reading)

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  69. Dexter (292 comments) says:

    I await your figure for the number of people that Christianity has killed.

    Arguing that your religion is superior because it’s massacred marginally less people means you’ve already lost.

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  70. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    While I detest all religion I have to say that I do reserve a special hatred for Islam and Catholicism. The problem with both of these religions is that they insist on trying to tell the rest of us how to live our lives.

    There is a slight difference in that you can ignore Catholicism but you cannot ignore Islam, to ignore Islam is to appease Islam and that is exactly what they want.

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  71. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The problem with both of these religions is that they insist on trying to tell the rest of us how to live our lives.

    Third time now.

    Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error.
    The Quran, Surah 2:256

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  72. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    @Keathor42 – so you quote a few *Old* Testament Quran verses to make Islam Christianity look good in comparison. Big deal.

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  73. Akaroa (552 comments) says:

    I have to insert my five cents worth here!

    (And, btw, thanks and hat-tip to D Farrar for re-admitting me to the commenting classes after my short rustication!!)

    Now. About UK. And foreign influences.

    Commenters ought to realise that the UK, the British, English society – call it what you will – has always – and I mean always – been regularly joined by groups from abroad. The fact that there are evidently many more moslems in UK than there were a while ago is just – IMHO – the latest manifestation of this historic trend.

    Anyone wanting to trace the pattern of immigration to the UK could start with the French Normans around 1066. (I’ll leave out the Saxons, Angles and Jutes of even earlier times!)

    Then several centuries later UK embraced the Flemish weavers who sought sanctuary from persecution in the low countries. More recently there were the European Jews, who sought sanctuary in Great Britain from Nazi persecution. And, as Eastern Europe passed under the Iron Curtain in the late 40s, many of the Poles, Czechs and others who had made their way to UK to fight Nazi-ism stayed on and became Brits.

    Then there were the Ugandan Asians – small entrepreneurs, mainly of Indian extraction – who fled Idi Amin ‘s regime in Uganda. And there were the swarms of West Indians who sought a better life in UK in the 50s and 60s. Not to mention the Pakistanis, who are legion!!

    So what I’m saying is that the fact that many Moslems are making their home in UK is nothing new and nothing to get worked up about. Several ethnic groups – of which i have mentioned but a few – have done so in the past. They’ll be absorbed, as have all the others i’ve mentioned – especially as the children grow up in, and embrace, UK’s comparatively laid back society and values.

    So don’t panic fellas, they’ll all finish up as Poms in the fulness of time – multi-coloured though UK society will be!!!

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  74. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @Akaroa – “So what I’m saying is that the fact that many Moslems are making their home in UK is nothing new and nothing to get worked up about. Several ethnic groups – of which i have mentioned but a few – have done so in the past. They’ll be absorbed, as have all the others i’ve mentioned – especially as the children grow up in and embrace UK’s comparatively laid back society and values.”

    Not so. Recent studies have shown that young Muslims in the UK are becoming even more hateful and intolerant than their parents. The trend is in exactly the opposite direction to what you are suggesting.

    “So don’t panic fellas, they’ll all finish up as Poms in the fulness of time…”
    Disagree, for the reason mentioned above.
    Places like Lebanon too – that used to be Christian – *now* look at it. Not exactly the Muslims moving in there and playing “happy families”.

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  75. Fentex (944 comments) says:

    I think it’s outrageous too.

    However I think it’s important to note he wasn’t arrested ‘For Quoting Churchill’ – that’s misleading. If one were to accept that some speech is dangerous – the standard example is shouting ‘Fire’ in a crowded theatre – then it’s the speech that’s important to consider. In the classic example – if you accept it as a reason to restrict speech – shouting ‘Fire’ makes it being a quote beside the point.

    So what he said should be the subject, not it’s source.

    And then the topic becomes, what is the context? This excellent speech by Christopher hitchens begins with him shouting ‘Fire!’, and then proceeds as he, eloquently, demolishes the arguments for these stupid laws restricting speech on the theory someone might offend others (while also pointing out a flaw in the classic argument about shouting ‘Fire’).

    It’s a really good speech.

    I’m damn sure if someone was making a speech attacking Christianity, they would not be arrested.

    The Guardian has a nice round up of silly examples of people being charged on the basis of someone feeling insulted.

    One of which was a man burning a paper Poppy, not quite attacking Christianity per se, but as a member of ‘Muslims Against Crusaders’ which I presume is a group angry at the wests warring in the middle east. That’s pretty much the thing you think people wouldn’t be arrested for is it not?

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  76. Bob R (1,363 comments) says:

    ***They’ll be absorbed, as have all the others i’ve mentioned – especially as the children grow up in, and embrace, UK’s comparatively laid back society and values.***

    @ Akaroa,

    They won’t be absorbed if they become the majority. Their views and Sharia laws will be implemented. In any case, your comment that they will become laid back and liberal runs against actual survey data:

    “As you can see, Western European Muslims are much more conservative than the general population. Or, more accurately they’re much more reactionary and culturally alien. The reality is that the status quo in Western Europe is toward acceptance of homosexuality without the sort of debates we have in the United States. Interestingly you can’t even calculate a real ratio for British Muslims to the general public, not one British Muslim surveyed would admit to homosexuality being morally acceptable. …

    And predictably, Diasporic communities are considerably more liberal. Only 36 percent of British Muslims age 16-24 believe that apostates should be killed!”

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/admissions-of-illiberalism/

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  77. UrbanNeocolonialist (286 comments) says:

    Islam/Jihad thrives on the anger created in young men by denying them access to the moderating and civilising influence of empowered girls and women. And of course they end up misogynistic when they don’t have familiarity and their whole society treats women as chattels. A friend of mine who worked in Kuwait as a teacher said that a massive proportion of the boys there were messing around on the fringes of homosexuality because they lacked more normal options.

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  78. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Ugly.

    You are simply telling lies. Hundreds of Islamist leaders are on record as saying that the entire world will be under Islam, the fact that we do not want that is not important.

    People like you are the problem, you enable these bearded oafs to spread their poison unchecked.

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  79. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    The ragheads won’t “be absorbed” and create a nice cappucino England…That sort of crap is simply designed to lull the rest of us who fear these maniacs into a false sense of security…or at least lack of danger…

    (and yes, “raghead” is an inflammatory term…I.dont.care… these mongrels are the biggest threat to our near unique way of life in our green and pleasant land)

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  80. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    BB: Uptick to you…Ugly might even believe everything he says…That wont stop him getting his head sawn off by a bunch of mullahs who decide something he has said or done makes him an apostate…

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  81. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    DG, most rag heads immigrate to escape that nonsense. The trouble is they see the same intolerance and views replicated in their new home. By allowing radical Islam to rise in the West we are hurting not only Western culture but those moderate Muslims looking to escape. It benefits no one.

    I think we simply need clear rules that apply to all. Singling out certain religions is a very slippery slope Herr Garrett.

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  82. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly.

    Yes, big bruv?

    You are simply telling lies.

    Oh? How’s that?

    Hundreds of Islamist leaders are on record as saying that the entire world will be under Islam, the fact that we do not want that is not important.

    And that is supposed to mean that I lied?

    People like you are the problem, you enable these bearded oafs to spread their poison unchecked.

    Speaking of spreading posion, do you know that the meaning of “devil” is someone who makes false accusations, like, for example, falsely accusing someone of lying?

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  83. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Ugly

    Are you quite happy to live in a society where Sharia is practiced?, are you quite happy to have two separate justice systems?

    How do you feel about gentile mutilation in the name of Islam?, thousands of young girls are subjected to this barbaric stone age ritual in the UK yet despite it being against the law very few (if any) are prosecuted, the Brits are simply petrified of offending Islam.

    Of course it is not hard to offend Islam, all one has to do is walk through a Muslim part of town with your wife if she is not wearing a tent, this offends Muslims. Fancy a beer or a wine at times do you Ugly?, well you cant do that in a Muslim part of town either.

    Then there is the barbaric way the UK and NZ have bowed down to Islam in the way we torture animals via Halal slaughter, we are not told what is halal meat, we are forced to eat it simply because to slaughter animals in a more humane way offends the ragheads.

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  84. EAD (1,002 comments) says:

    Absolutely disgusting piece of journalism from DPF by linking legitimate criticism of Islam to being equivalent to people being allowed to talk in public on how he thinks the Holocaust is a hoax.

    Free speech is free speech, not what DPF and the other useful idiots think is acceptable according to their warped world view. By doing nothing and not saying anything, good people allow evil to flourish and that is why this is arrest is sickening.

    This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim demographic situation I have ever read and by how not eradicating it while we still have a chance, then the inevitable will occur:

    The author of this email is Dr.Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist. A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates.

    “When he was asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. ‘Very few people were true Nazis,’ he said, ‘but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care.

    I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.’

    We are told again and again by ‘experts’ and ‘talking heads’ that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace.

    Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam. The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march.It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide.

    It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque.

    It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers. The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the ‘silent majority,’ is cowed and extraneous.

    Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant.

    China’s huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.

    The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.

    And who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were ‘peace loving’?

    History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points:

    Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don’t speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

    Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late”

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  85. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly

    Are you quite happy to live in a society where Sharia is practiced?, are you quite happy to have two separate justice systems?

    Hang on a minute big bruv. You accused me of lying, why are you asking more questions instead of substantiating your allegation?

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  86. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    It is the fanatics who march.It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide.

    So who are the fanatics, and what motivates them?

    One of the many unexplained (at least not officially) anomalies of the persons claimed to have carried out the Boston Marathon bombings is the presence of key CIA figure in the direct family of the accused brothers. Ruslan Tsarnaev, the outspoken uncle of the brothers was married to Samantha A. Fuller until 2004. Samantha’s father is Graham Fuller, the senior CIA person who architected the Afghan Islamic fundamentalist Mujahideen war against the Soviets. He is also implicated in creating a global jihad network, presumably acting on behalf of CIA interests.
    http://www.voltairenet.org/article178524.html

    From his new luxurious heavily-guarded estate in Saylorsburg, a remote part of eastern Pennsylvania, Gülen launched a series of fundamentalist Salafist mosques and madrasses, not only in his native Turkey where he was the alleged power behind Turkey’s AKP regime of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, himself a product of Gülen’s schools, but across the Islamic regions of Central Asia as they separated from the Soviet Union in the chaos after 1991.
    http://www.voltairenet.org/article178623.html

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  87. questions (198 comments) says:

    Kea says:

    the most popular boys name is Mohammed.

    Different regions spell Mohammed differently. They list the different spellings as different names to hide the truth.

    Can you tell us what they are trying to do here?
    Why they are trying to be the most popular boys name, but trying to hide it at the same time?
    Are they trying to deface the scared pages of the life section of the news paper?
    Can you tell us why Mohammed is the only name on the list that isnt agregated (Jamie + Jayme for example is aggregated)

    Can you also tell us why you are repeating this rubbish, given the fact that you know it is A: Not true, and B: a non sequitur.

    You know it is a non sequitur because I have pointed out to you several times that muslims name thier son’s Mohmammed at a much higher rate than non muslims name their children any particular name. Yet every single time you trot out the same lie.

    As for the rest of you, students of Brevik it seems, Big Bruv, David Garett, thor42, Brian Smaller, Manolo, Ashley Schaeffer, if Islam proposes such an existential threat to the west as you claim it does, get your guns and start shooting, we are all fucked otherwise right?

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  88. Fentex (944 comments) says:

    Are you quite happy to live in a society where Sharia is practiced?, are you quite happy to have two separate justice systems?

    This seems to make two errors;the first confusing NZ with the UK, the second in thinking the UK practises or even protects Sharia law.

    It doesn’t. What it does is permit Sharia courts to exist as a private matter between individuals. When an Imam makes a ruling in a matter bought to them it’s as if, as far as UK courts are concerned, a family asked an elder to decide a dispute between family members.

    In other words nothing to do with the courts until someone breaks a law. This is quite proper, I think. Every participant is as free as any other British subject to tell the Imam to sod off if they don’t like his judgement.

    It does raise questions about peer pressure on children but that’s not unique to Muslims. Scientologists, Seventh Day Adventists and any group of people pressure their children into following traditions.

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  89. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    Sharia courts operate openly in Britain.often contrary to the laws of Britain.

    The british govt choses to ignore this affront to British law and values.

    By contrast the British state will oppress you ,arrest you and charge you for holding what only a few short years ago were “mainstream” British opinions.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9975937/Inside-Britains-Sharia-courts.html

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  90. duggledog (1,528 comments) says:

    The UK is still comprised of just over 80% white. If they want to stop their country becoming more of a Paki / Indian / African etc place then they can still do something about it, it’s called voting. Approaching the point of no return though.

    London, Bristol, Liverpool etc have always been multicultural going back to medieval times so diversity is more accepted in the main metro centres

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  91. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    England ,where celebrating the the patron Saint george is “racist” and can get you thrown out of a “diverse” pub.

    Diversity doesn’t include English?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2615835/Friends-St-Georges-Day-costume-mistaken-EDL-thrown-pub.html

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  92. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    The only good use for the excremental Koran would to use its pages to clean dog’s faeces. The book is vile.

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  93. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    Actually that’s bullshit by kea saying the majority immigrate to escape that nonsense.

    And Akaroa; Muslim immigration is very different to the previous experience in Britain.

    They immigrate to soak up our wealth and goodwill.

    They live enclosed ghetto lives apart from the mainstream,as dictated by the literal word of God in the koran.

    That’s why there’s such angst among their enablers in Europe,the lack of integration.The harbouring of numerous terrorist plots,as well as the perpetration of many actual outrages,the huge numbers travelling abroad to take part in jihad!The multigenerational unemployed.The refusal to learn the native language or to adopt native customs ,dress and values.The insistence on their own schools.

    And all of that is starting to happen here,and we have relatively few of them.

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  94. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The only good use for the excremental Koran would to use its pages to clean dog’s faeces. The book is vile.

    “And the slaves of God are those who walk on the earth in humility and calmness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness.” The Quran, Surah 25:63

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  95. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    UT, I would like to take you up on your prior post regarding what appears to be yet another conspiracy claim of yours re the Boston Bombing .
    But one of the crazy claims about the Boston Bombings was the alleged use of crises actors. One in particular was the allegation that Nick Vogt ,ex Afghanistan soldier who had his legs blown off there ,was used in this capacity. This was due to a passing resemblance to the real victim , Jeff Bauman.
    It was these kind of baseless and nonsensical allegations that helped bring Conspiracy Theorists like you to a new low point. I invite you to go through my link where one by one the myths and lies about Boston are carefully examined and discredited

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/boston.asp

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  96. Odakyu-sen (600 comments) says:

    “Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late”

    Well, these new laws in the UK, Sweden and other countries certainly don’t make it any easier for the peace-lovers to speak up…(until it is too late?)

    Maybe that’s the idea behind the laws…? What do you think?

    On the other hand, jamming the safety valve on a pressure cooker is not a smart thing to do.

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  97. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    UT: You can find any quote you like from the Koran…or any barbarous quote from the Old Testament designed to show how barbaric the Christian word of God is…the difference is in what the two religions DO…Put simply, you won’t get your head sawn off with a kitchen knife for saying “No thanks very much” to a Brethren preacher on some city corner…but you WILL get your head sawn off if you try preaching Christianity in some barbaric Muslim state…and as kowtow says quite correctly, even with 1.5% of our population being the followers of the religion of peace we are already getting demands – not strident ones because there aren’t yet enough of them – for separate Muslim facilities etc..and the more of the bastards we allow in the more we will go down the path England is now far down..

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  98. ChardonnayGuy (1,199 comments) says:

    Yes, but insofar as the evil and disgusting David Irving is concerned, they should not turn around and try to launch spurious and unsubstantiated ‘defamation’ cases against mainstream Jewish historians who expose the pseudo-science, mendacity and outright anti-Semitic lies behind their unsubstantiated Holocaust denial tactics ie Professor Deborah Lipstadt and Penguin Books.

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  99. RRM (9,841 comments) says:

    I started reading The river war after this post, and now I can’t put it down!

    An interesting window into a world I knew nothing about. He could write well, too…

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  100. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    they should not turn around and try to launch spurious and unsubstantiated ‘defamation’ cases against mainstream Jewish historians

    Fixed it.

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  101. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    UT: You can find any quote you like from the Koran…or any barbarous quote from the Old Testament designed to show how barbaric the Christian word of God is…

    The quotes I posted have nothing to do with Pauline Christianity. If you think that what I posted is barbarous then you are rejecting part of justice itself. Justice repays good for good and evil for evil, the retributive justice described in the Quran (which has it’s origins if Judaic law) is an essential part of justice.

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  102. Kea (12,465 comments) says:

    but you WILL get your head sawn off if you try preaching Christianity in some barbaric Muslim state

    jewish world

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4196645,00.html

    ‘Modesty Patrol lynched me’
    Elderly Jerusalem woman brutalized by thugs who evidently thought she was a missionary; police source: Assailants wanted to send a message

    A 70-year-old ultra-Orthodox woman found herself the target of a brutal religious hate crime on Monday night, when four thugs broke into her home and beat her up before leaving her handcuffed and bleeding.

    “They were sent by the Modesty Patrol,” the woman, S., told Yedioth Ahronoth. “They told me, ‘You are destroying the neighborhood with you missionary teachings.”

    [I thought you were smarter than this DG :( ]

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