General Debate 12 April 2014

April 12th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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317 Responses to “General Debate 12 April 2014”

  1. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    The most serious blow of all is the dawning realization everywhere that Washington’s crackpot conspiracy theory of 9/11 is false. Large numbers of independent experts as well as more than one hundred first responders have contradicted every aspect of Washington’s absurd conspiracy theory. No aware person believes that a few Saudi Arabians, who could not fly airplanes, operating without help from any intelligence agency, outwitted the entire National Security State, not only all 16 US intelligence agencies but also all intelligence agencies of NATO and Israel as well.

    Nothing worked on 9/11. Airport security failed four times in one hour, more failures in one hour than have occurred during the other 116,232 hours of the 21st century combined. For the first time in history the US Air Force could not get interceptor fighters off the ground and into the sky. For the first time in history Air Traffic Control lost airliners for up to one hour and did not report it. For the first time in history low temperature, short-lived, fires on a few floors caused massive steel structures to weaken and collapse. For the first time in history 3 skyscrapers fell at essentially free fall acceleration without the benefit of controlled demolition removing resistance from below.

    Two-thirds of Americans fell for this crackpot story. The left-wing fell for it, because they saw the story as the oppressed striking back at America’s evil empire. The right-wing fell for the story, because they saw it as the demonized Muslims striking out at American goodness. President George W. Bush expressed the right-wing view very well: “They hate us for our freedom and democracy.”

    But no one else believed it, least of all the Italians. Italians had been informed some years previously about government false flag events when their President revealed the truth about secret Operation Gladio. Operation Gladio was an operation run by the CIA and Italian intelligence during the second half of the 20th century to set off bombs that would kill European women and children in order to blame communists and, thereby, erode support for European communist parties.

    Italians were among the first to make video presentations challenging Washington’s crackpot story of 9/11. The ultimate of this challenge is the 1 hour and 45 minute film, “Zero.”

    Zero was produced as a film investigating 9/ll by the Italian company Telemaco. Many prominent people appear in the film along with independent experts. Together, they disprove every assertion made by the US government regarding its explanation of 9/11.

    The film was shown to the European parliament.

    It is impossible for anyone who watches this film to believe one word of the official explanation of 9/11.

    The conclusion is increasingly difficult to avoid that elements of the US government blew up three New York skyscrapers in order to destroy Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah and to launch the US on the neoconservatives agenda of US world hegemony.

    China and Russia protested but accepted Libya’s destruction even though it was to their own detriment. But Iran became a red line. Washington was blocked, so Washington decided to cause major problems for Russia in Ukraine in order to distract Russia from Washington’s agenda elsewhere.

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  2. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    Treasury publishes five new Working Papers
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/media-speeches/media/08apr14w

    New Zealand Treasury Working Paper 14/10

    Migration and Macroeconomic Performance in New Zealand: Theory
    and Evidence
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2014/14-10

    Abstract

    New Zealand immigration policy settings are based on the assumption that the
    macroeconomic impacts of immigration may be significantly positive, with at worst small
    negative effects. However, both large positive and large negative effects are possible.

    Reviewing the literature, the balance of evidence suggests that while past immigration
    has, at times, had significant net benefits, over the past couple of decades the positive
    effects of immigration on per capita growth, productivity, fiscal balance and mitigating
    population ageing are likely to have been modest. There is also some evidence that
    immigration, together with other forms of population growth, has exacerbated pressures
    on New Zealand’s insufficiently-responsive housing market. Meeting the infrastructure
    needs of immigrants in an economy with a quite modest rate of national saving may also
    have diverted resources from productive tradable activities, with negative macroeconomic
    impacts. Therefore from a macroeconomic perspective, a least regrets approach suggests
    that immigration policy should be more closely tailored to the economy’s ability to adjust to
    population increase. At a minimum, this emphasises the importance of improving the
    economy’s ability to respond to population increase. If this cannot be achieved, there may
    be merit in considering a reduced immigration target as a tool for easing macroeconomic
    pressures. More work is required to assess the potential net benefits of an increase in
    immigration as part of a strategy to pursue scale and agglomeration effects through
    increased population, or whether a decrease in immigration could facilitate lower interest
    rates, a lower exchange rate, and more balanced growth going forward.

    Relative to other OECD countries, New Zealand has high rates of population inflow and
    outflow. These are related: there has been a deliberate policy choice since the early
    1990s to more than replace departing New Zealanders with immigrants. Significant
    benefits were anticipated from increasing the number and quality of people working within
    New Zealand’s reformed economy and institutions.

    I.e Population increase is government policy.

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  3. Keeping Stock (10,339 comments) says:

    More legal woes for Herr Dotcom; now the recording industry plans to sue him. If Hone is going to get a koha today, he’d better make sure it’s cold, hard cash and not an IOU…

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/04/cranking-up-volume-on-dotcom.html

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  4. Nostalgia-NZ (5,202 comments) says:

    Find it a coincidental that all the different law suits come within days of each other KS, or do you simply accept anything that you see as good news without question.

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  5. Scott Chris (6,137 comments) says:

    Plug for a plug-in – an SUV that goes 100km on an icecream container full of petrol with no compromises on style or power:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/mitsubishi-hybrid

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  6. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    4.3 The Reddell hypothesis

    The Reddell story is not about immigration generally being bad or economically negative.
    In fact, Reddell states that “in general, my reading of the evidence is that it makes quite a
    142
    small difference either way.” Rather, Reddell argues that in assessing the potential
    impact of migration, it is important to pay attention to the characteristics of individual
    country experiences, and the possible role of combinations of circumstances. In
    New Zealand, migration policy has made a large difference to population growth,
    throughout history and over the past 20 years.

    In the late 19th century and early 20th century, immigration to New Zealand could be seen
    as reflecting a favourable shock to the tradable sector. Opening up new lands to
    production, falling transport costs, refrigerated shipping combined to lift the population
    capacity of New Zealand while still offering high wages and high rates of return.

    By the middle of the 20th century, New Zealand was settled and producing, and
    technological change in the key export sectors was no longer as rapid (relative to other
    producers). The factor price equalisation justification for strong population growth had
    dissipated, yet population growth remained high. Across the OECD, there is some
    evidence that rapid population growth in post-war advanced countries was associated with
    143
    an apparent cost to per capita growth rates.

    Indeed, in the period between the end of the Second World War and the late 1970s, the
    New Zealand debate about immigration was primarily about its macroeconomic impact.
    Economists such as Belshaw (1952), Gould (1982), Holmes (1966), Hawke (1985, 1981)
    and others warned that immigration shocks in a supply-constrained economy with low

    unemployment would generate excess demand, inflationary pressure and a deterioration
    144
    in the balance of payments.

    In 1974, New Zealand tightened eligibility for entry, and began focusing more on the skills
    of migrants instead of favouring particular source countries. Soon after, in response to
    declining economic prospects in New Zealand, large numbers of New Zealand citizens
    began to leave. A marked liberalisation of arrivals policy began with the passing of the
    Immigration Act in 1987 and continued with the introduction of the points-based system in
    145
    1991. As Figure 4 shows, a pattern of large departures of New Zealand citizens
    compensated for by large inflows of non-New Zealand citizens has continued, albeit with
    cyclical fluctuations, for many years.
    Reddell’s hypothesis is that substantial inflows of non-New Zealand citizens (comprising
    around 80% of average population growth over the past two decades) have resulted in
    pressure on infrastructure (housing, local government services, schools and hospitals)
    146
    and capital in the workplace. The real investment needs of a rising population have
    outstripped the available (quite modest) rate of national savings. The reason for focusing
    on non-citizen arrivals is that these reflect a policy choice: in the absence of these inflows,
    147
    New Zealand would still have experienced a rise in population from natural increase.

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2014/14-10

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  7. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (2,890 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 5:31 pm
    Micronukes? Wow.

    It’s the simplest explanation for the extraordinary amount of heat associated with the molten steel, it explains the steel fused with concrete, Felipe David’s injuries, the Sr/Ba ratio found in the harbour samples, and it explains the concrete that turned into fine dust.

    Vote: 0 3

    Small problem there UT where is the proof. Of course you make things easy . The mini nukes are apparently fission less therefore non detectable.
    Most convenient
    Interesting.!
    Reid a photo of you partible beam weapon used on the Towers please with back up evidence and documentation.!

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  8. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    Don Brash discussing Maori culture with Kim Hill. He says Maori culture is inferior (primitive). One point he misses (is ignorant of) is that despite the drawback of the stone age lifestyle it is what our brains are adapted to. Don would say it doesn’t matter if one section of society increases it’s wealth by X if the rest increase as well (by Y) etc.

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  9. Keeping Stock (10,339 comments) says:

    @ nostalgia – it’s my understanding that the statute of limitations for filing was close to expiring, hence the actions by the film and recording industries.

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  10. dirty harry (489 comments) says:

    whats with all the rain and shite weather last 10 days in Canterbury..nil sun..over it

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  11. meh (165 comments) says:

    Does anyone know where I can buy the don brash book as an ebook?

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  12. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    whats with all the rain and shite weather last 10 days in Canterbury..nil sun..over it

    this is the time to move plants around the garden

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  13. minus (194 comments) says:

    An original 72 page Indictment was filed against Dotcom January 5. 2012, which triggered the raid that arrested him and started extradition proceedings.
    Court cases are filed against Kim Dotcom in Auckland by  staff that he has shortchanged.
    And Dotcom himself sues the New Zealand Government over mistakes in his arrest for about 6 million.
    Then earlier this past week six Hollywood companies filed civil cases pursuing up to half a billion dollars damages and yesterday four music companies filed a copyright lawsuit against $175 million in illicit profits from copyright infringement while causing “more than half a billion dollars in harm” to copyright owners.

    Meanwhile this weekend Hone Harawira will seek to combine his MANA Party with Dotcom’s INTERNET PARTY hoping to gain enough seats to be a Winston Peters type king maker in this September’s Election?

    Can anyone spot where this might be just a little bit fucked up? :-)

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  14. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    The Tresury Working Paper: Migration and Macroeconomic Performance in New Zealand: Theory
    and Evidence
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2014/14-10
    will likely be ignored by the media unlike the “independant” NZIER whose media statement was all conclusions with references. The Treasury paper is full of meat.
    https://www.google.co.nz/#q=NZIER+immigration

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  15. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Do Baked Bean Farts Cause Global Warming? House Of Lords Demands Answers
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/04/09/baked-beans-farts-global-warming_n_5118772.html

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  16. Southern Raider (1,829 comments) says:

    Good to see all the white apologists like Morgan lining up for the Mana conference today in Rotorua.

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  17. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    Kim HIll read about 8 negative and one ( “why don’t you shut up?”) positive email (Don Brash interview).
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday
    Actually despite some sophisticated eliments of Maori culture it is hard to argue that an isolated culture would be advanced? But the same people who defend Maori culture will be calling ours monocultural (and soooo boring).

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  18. dirty harry (489 comments) says:

    what loser would give me a thumbs down for commenting on the weather? You need to get out more loser.

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  19. Nostalgia-NZ (5,202 comments) says:

    KS you mean they all just happened to hold off to the last minute? Another coincidence.

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  20. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The mini nukes are apparently fission less therefore non detectable.

    The US Geological Survey collected samples of dusts and airfall debris from more than 35 localities within a 1-km radius of the World Trade Center site on the evenings of September 17 and 18, 2001. The USGS was primarily looking for asbestos in the dust but they found a host of elements in the dust that when analyzed properly proves that nuclear fission took place at Ground Zero.

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/01/mystery-solved-the-wtc-was-nuked-on-911/

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  21. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    Exhibitionist scum: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/9933568/Killer-sending-selfies-from-prison

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  22. dog_eat_dog (780 comments) says:

    Is anyone else tempted to give up reading General Debate? Between Penny Bright and the truthers, it seems like a gathering of people who aren’t actually interested in debating anything.

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  23. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    How do you tell the difference between someone who doesn’t want to debate and someone who has the facts on their side?

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  24. bringbackdemocracy (427 comments) says:

    Great article by Hooton in the NBR

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/keys-third-term-knife-edge-sat-lead-hold-weekend-review-dc-154509

    National need to make sure Colin Craig wins an electorate seat if they want a third term.

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  25. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Ask those who engage in debate with the moonbats?

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  26. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    I wonder if the lefties are going to start pushing the question Fran raises in her column about Brash’s biography.

    But the more fascinating disclosure was the secret deal he and John Key hatched in a Blenheim motel room in late 2004 for Brash to hand over the prime ministership to Key before the 2008 election.

    That secret deal – which Key appeared to give credence to this week – does neither man any credit.

    …Both Brash and Key need to put a lot more on the table about this “deal”. Key has equivocated in his public comments. In essence he has confirmed the pair met in the motel room. There had been discussions but nothing was formally agreed…

    …In my view it is quite probable that Brash would have pushed to be minister of finance, a role that he was arguably more qualified for than Key in the first place.

    This is the best chance the lefties have to get some traction on denting Key’s public image, because it has the personal factor of voter betrayal (by hatching a deal to swap PM and Finance roles without telling the voters what their intentions were) and it has the double-cross factor (by offering Brash London but not Washington) which brings back the smiling assassin image. And the information doesn’t come from them it comes from the conservative side.

    The voter betrayal aspect in particular risks undercutting Key’s image as a man of principle and that’s real powerful because once that dam is breached the whole edifice could come crashing down.

    The election just became very interesting.

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  27. Scott Chris (6,137 comments) says:

    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche

    “Mad Hatter: “Why is a raven like a writing-desk?”
    “Have you guessed the riddle yet?” the Hatter said, turning to Alice again.
    “No, I give it up,” Alice replied: “What’s the answer?”
    “I haven’t the slightest idea,” said the Hatter”
    ― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

    “Dispute not with her: she is lunatic.”
    ― William Shakespeare, Richard III

    “THE EDGE, there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.”
    ― Hunter S. Thompson

    “If you think anyone is sane you just don’t know enough about them.”
    ― Christopher Moore, Practical Demonkeeping

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  28. dog_eat_dog (780 comments) says:

    The people who aren’t interested in talking are usually the ones with things like ‘Truth’ in their name.

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  29. Scott Chris (6,137 comments) says:

    I don’t wholly subscribe to this view but find it interesting:

    “I was once asked if I had any ideas for a really scary reality TV show. I have one reality show that would really make your hair stand on end: “C-Students from Yale.”
    George W. Bush has gathered around him upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography, plus not-so-closeted white supremacists, aka Christians, and plus, most frighteningly, psychopathic personalities, or PPs, the medical term for smart, personable people who have no consciences.
    To say somebody is a PP is to make a perfectly respectable diagnosis, like saying he or she has appendicitis or athlete’s foot . . .
    PPs are presentable, they know full well the suffering their actions may cause others, but they do not care. They cannot care because they are nuts. They have a screw loose! . . .
    So many of these heartless PPs now hold big jobs in our federal government, as though they were leaders instead of sick. They have taken charge of communications and the schools, so we might as well be Poland under occupation.
    They might have felt that taking our country into an endless war was simply something decisive to do. What has allowed so many PPs to rise so high in corporations, and now in government, is that they are so decisive. They are going to do something every fuckin’ day and they are not afraid. Unlike normal people, they are never filled with doubts, for the simple reasons that they don’t give a fuck what happens next. Simply can’t. Do this! Do that! Mobilize the reserves! Privatize the public schools! Attack Iraq! Cut health care! Tap everybody’s telephone! Cut taxes on the rich! Build a trillion-dollar missile shield! Fuck habeas corpus and the Sierra Club and In These Times, and kiss my ass!
    There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don’t know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country

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  30. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    So we all saw planes fly into buildings, saw the gaping hole and intense fires burning. Saw them collapse from the top down, much much slower than free fall speed. But what really happened is what no-one saw and there is no evidence for, but must be the truth because “it’s the simplest explanation”.

    Sometimes the world scares me. Extreme stupidity combined with delusion and paranoia in people is scary. You would think these people would have won a Darwin award by now.

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  31. Longknives (4,744 comments) says:

    Christ New Zealand -Sorry ‘Republic of Aotearoa’…
    Stop being so bloody precious…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/royal-tour/9933674/CNN-view-on-powhiri-strikes-a-bum-note

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  32. SGA (1,028 comments) says:

    dog_eat_dog at 9:38 am

    Is anyone else tempted to give up reading General Debate? Between Penny Bright and the truthers, it seems like a gathering of people who aren’t actually interested in debating anything.

    What dog_eat_dog? Surely you jest. You must want to know if the world’s destiny is shaped by –
    a) a malevolent secret society.
    b) extra-terrestials.
    c) supernatural forces of good and evil.
    (NB – these choices are not necessarily mutually exclusive)
    Oddly, Occam’s razor would say “a” is the most likely of the three :-)

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  33. ChardonnayGuy (1,206 comments) says:

    The Economist sounds a warning note about India’s Opposition Leader Narendra Modi, and asks whether his past anti-Muslim sectarianism will lead to dangerous outcomes for South Asian regional stability in the event of an election victory at the end of India’s prolonged election process in five weeks time:

    “Can Anyone Stop Narendra Modi?” Economist: 05.04.2014: http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21600106-he-will-probably-become-indias-next-prime-minister-does-not-mean-he-should-be-can-anyone

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  34. dirty harry (489 comments) says:

    Just another poor excuse of a human Manolo..big tough guy with tatts..heh , outrun my bullet you filthy piece of trash.

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  35. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/88UVJpQGi88

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  36. publicwatchdog (2,593 comments) says:

    So over 2000 QUALIFIED architects and engineers who support an independent inquiry for 9/11 TRUTH are ‘moonbats’?

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    I don’t think so.

    Sorry their considered opinions aren’t to your liking …….

    Try seeking TRUTH from FACTS?

    Just for the novelty factor?

    (Meant of course in a caring way :)

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

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  37. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The people who aren’t interested in talking are usually the ones with things like ‘Truth’ in their name.

    It’s easy to sit on the sidelines and scoff, harder to take a position and risk getting proven wrong.

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  38. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    occam’s razor shaves moonbats bald

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  39. wikiriwhis business (3,998 comments) says:

    .Nevada Ranchers “Face Off” With Feds Cattle Grazing Rights .

    Cliven Bundy and several family members and some militia groups had a showdown with some Federal Rangers

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  40. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Ahoy Penny:

    I take it you’ll be waving your placards / searching for the cameras / shouting your usual slogans at your mates attending the Mana Conference this weekend…. after all, they’re selling their souls for the promise of 8 pieces of silver – courtesy of a convicted FRAUDSTER / EMBEZZLER in the form of Krim Dotcon.

    No? Thought not…. :roll:

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  41. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    Haha, Penny is a truther. Why am I not surprised….

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  42. wikiriwhis business (3,998 comments) says:

    “Do Baked Bean Farts Cause Global Warming? House Of Lords Demands Answers”

    Depopulation issue

    UN Agenda 21

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  43. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    Jadis, where are you??? We need some posts besides GD, we’re getting overrun by mental illness.

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  44. dog_eat_dog (780 comments) says:

    I think the question some of you need to ask is would you have accepted any official explanation about the cause of 9/11? Or would there always have been some more fantastically implausible conspiracy at play than whatever was ‘admitted to’?

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  45. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Slothful Cummings, editor of Manwatu Standard, has now come out berating Judith Collins. This weasel is the type of loser that gives public such a low rating of so-called journos. He, along with his deputy, are confidants of the effeminate Lees-Galloway, continuously using their media positions to push his foul socialist doctrine. Come on advertisers pull your contracts, they are not worth supporting.

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  46. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    what really happened is what no-one saw and there is no evidence for, but must be the truth because “it’s the simplest explanation”.

    But there’s plenty of evidence Zapper. For example, have a look from 50 mins in on that video which discusses the lack of interception. (And about 10 mins back to get the no-fly defence layers round the Pentagram). In June Rumsfeld changed a protocol between FAA air traffic controllers and the Pentagram dealing with response to when an aircraft goes off track or off radar. For air emergencies or hijackings. They had 67 incidents that year alone, but on 911 nothing happened – 4 times in a row. Since the 1970’s they had had two response protocols in place, one fast and one slow. The fast one involved a direct intercept for air emergencies, the slow one was for hijackings where the interceptor would sneak up behind because they didn’t want the hijackers to know they were there and you had to get Pentagram approval before the fighters could be released. Note that pilots always had the authority to shoot down if required, they did not need approval from the President or from anyone else.

    On June 1 2001 Rumsfeld changed the two protocols to only the slow one. So when the FAA alerted the Pentagram, they didn’t respond. Then on 12 Sep 2001 they changed back to the two protocols. The official story claims I think the FAA didn’t issue the alert. Yeah, right.

    That’s just one tiny example, so please don’t get all fascinated with that one and spend the rest of the day analysing it, there are hundreds of similar things all over the 911 charade. And BTW, the towers and WTC7 all fell at close to freefall speed, through the path of most resistance. There is no way on Earth the fellings that everyone saw that day in NY can be explained by gravity as we know it. No way.

    would you have accepted any official explanation about the cause of 9/11? Or would there always have been some more fantastically implausible conspiracy at play than whatever was ‘admitted to’?

    You mean less implausible than the official story? Hard to imagine how that could be possible.

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  47. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Oh, dear….

    On the list of speakers at the Mana conference in Rotorua:

    Convicted Fraudster, Insider Trader and Embezzler – Kim DotCon.

    Transgender (is that the term?) former Labour MP – Georgina Beyer.

    North Korean regime supporter – Gareth Morgan.

    Convicted fraudster – Donna Awatere – Huata.

    And Harawira himself….

    Haha…. There hasn’t been a bigger gathering of idiots in one place since they threw open the doors at Carrington.

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  48. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (2,893 comments) says:
    April 12th, 2014 at 9:22 am

    The Veteran’s Today article proves no so thing re mini nukes. Even 9/11 Truther cold fusion physicist and controlled demolition advocate Steven Jones in the very same article repudiates the hypothesis,

    http://www.journalof911studies.com/letters/a/Hard-Evidence-Rebudiates-the-Hypothesis-that-Mini-Nukes-were-used-on-the-wtc-towers-by-steven-jones.pdf

    The second reference discusses the presence of Titrioum and found to be from inside the 767s plus weapons carried by Security agencies ( heightened security since the 1997 bombings) )

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  49. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    Continuing with my post. The article about traces of tritium found known to be likely from inside the 767s and weapons as explained,

    https://e-reports-ext.llnl.gov/pdf/241096.pdf

    If it had been a neutron device then it would of killed all people within a kilometer of the Trade center.

    There was a nuke in the basement
    Rebuttal: No there wasn’t. None of the basic characteristics of a nuclear detonation (intense flash, thermal pulse, observable radial shockwave, or emission of nuclear radiation) were exhibited during the event. The physics departments of NYU, Columbia, Stuyvesant High School, and every other school in the area would have been all over that with Geiger counters, and most of Lower Manhattan would now be uninhabitable. (Also, to put it in perspective, the 1988 PEPCON explosion in Nevada was less than a tenth of the size of the Little Boy explosion at Hiroshima in 1945, and not even half the size of the fizzled North Korean nuclear test in 2006. That’d have to be one hell of a small nuke,[23] and it doesn’t even begin to take into account that the tower collapses started from the impact sites, not the basement.)
    The shockwave also would have easily registered on seismic counters all over the world that listen for nuclear testing.
    [edit]Space beams!”

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9-11_conspiracy_theories

    Why do you apparently not accept Dr Judy Woods Theory that Reid advocates>?

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  50. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Slothful Cummings, editor of Manwatu Standard, has now come out berating Judith Collins.

    Collins is clearly avoiding the issue of the importance of the dinner. If the conversation that took place included an element of nepotism as the circumstances suggest, then it becomes a matter of public interest, and her refusal to address the issue can be interpreted as obstruction of justice.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/9934086/Private-dinner-a-public-disgrace

    She said “having dinner is not something that anyone would consider a matter of national importance”.

    Of course, in the normal course of things having dinner is not a matter of national importance. But when that dinner is with the head of your husband’s milk company, which is having difficulty getting its product into China, and a Chinese border official, the details of who was there and what was said are of considerable national importance.

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  51. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    hj

    Re: Whether pre-European Maori culture was primitive or not.

    My Collins COBUILD Dictionary defines ‘Primitive’ in the folLowing manner:

    ‘Belonging to a society in which people live in a very simple way, usually without industries or a written system’.(1)

    It is generally-accepted that pre-European Maori culture was probably the pinnacle of ‘stone age’ (ie, non-metal using) cultures, anywhere on the planet.

    However, it has always struck me as very odd that, unlike other stone-age cultures,(PNG comes to mind), Maori never made any use made of ‘earthenware/pottery’, and that indeed, they were evidently not aware of the possibilities of such materials. Whether this was as a result of this constant internecine strife that was a feature of the culture cannot, of course, be determined.

    There is also the curious lack of knowledge of ‘metal culture’ within the society. If (and only ‘if’) one accepts that as a result of shipwrecks, various other cultures (Spanish, Chinese?) inevitably (literally) ‘washed-up’ on the shores of New Zealand, it is to be expected that a knowledge of metals (even if in only a very primitive/basic way) would have followed as a natural consequence. Yet, within Maori ‘folk-lore’, there is no evidence of this, nor even any attempt by ‘Maori’ to investigate the content of the rocks and earth around them. This is surprising as it is Human-nature to look and investigate; to see why a’rock’ sparkles. We all do it – even children do so, but, if surviving records and their own folk-tales are to be believed, NOT Maori, they seem to have been the only race on the planet which did not investigate their natural world beyond the perimeters of a very limited sphere. It would seem that, having reached the stage where they could sharpen greenstone, rock and basalt to a sufficient point to cut human flesh, they stopped technologically, and stagnated.

    It is almost as if the islands of ‘Aotearoa’ did as Krikkit did in Douglas Adam’s ‘Life, the Universe and Everything’, and wrapped themselves in cloud and disappeared from view, with the inhabitants, displaying no curiousity about the outside world, using the cloud barriers as a place behind-which they could take the opportunity to destroy themselves. There was no communication with the outside world (not even with the islands of the Pacific), and a marked a disinclination to explore beyond the sight of land, an odd situation for a people who had travelled across the Pacific Ocean to arrive here and were aware of the paths of currents and the migration of birds. Presumably, in this situation, because of the lack of even oral evidence, many of the individuals unfortunate enough to become shipwrecked on the shores was quickly despatched before they could impart their knowledge to the locals. Perhaps they were perceived as a ‘threat’ to the local ruling elite? One cannot know. The Bay of Plenty MAY have been the exception (the Lost Caravel story et al), but even then (if the story is true), the knowledge of metal-working’ and the absorption of any ‘advanced technology’ as represented by the survivors was apparently not incorporated into the collective knowledge-base.

    It is also curious that, even if there were shipwrecked survivors in any part of the country (from whatever point of the compass these unfortunates may have come), no tribal group within the country ever developed even the most basic formal written language. For an ‘advanced’ culture, such as Maori certainly were, this is a striking oddity.

    War was apparently the focus and war was everything. If it didn’t contribute to the purpose, then it had no use.

    This of course explains why the advent of the (then) ‘advanced technology’ of the muskets was such a huge advancement. The technological ‘jump’ was massive, and would be, I believe, the modern equivalent of going from the wheel to a Saturn Five overnight.

    That Maori were capable of making the transition to the very new and radically-advanced technology is notable; that they used the new technology to ‘settle old scores’ is (of course), not; machine guns against cavalry comes to mind. That Maori had the latent ‘mental ability’ was very obviously demonstrated , but, for unknown reasons, the ‘physical’ capability was not. Whether it was physically suppressed (or even eaten) is not known, and never can be.

    But, to return to the matter of whether pre-European Maori culture was primitive or not.

    Based-upon the dictionary-definition given above, one has to say that, unpalatable as it may be to the revisionists, and romantics, the contention is correct, and that at the time they were discovered by the European, ‘Maori’ were in fact ‘Primitive’.

    I will be interested in your reply.

    Thanks.

    ______________________

    (1) John Sinclair, Collins COBUILD Dictionary(Glasgow: Harper Collins, 2006), s.v.primitive

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  52. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The Veteran’s Today article proves no so thing re mini nukes.

    So we have a Correlation Coefficient between the concentration of Barium and the concentration of Strontium of 0.9897, or near perfect. The maximum Correlation Coefficient that is mathematically possible is 1.0 and this would mean we have a perfect match between the two factors we’re examining and the data points would lie on a straight line with no variation between them. To obtain a Correlation Coefficient of 0.9897 with this number of measurements (14) around Lower Manhattan is very, very significant indeed.

    What this means is that we can say that there’s a 99% correlation in the variation in the concentration between these two elements. They vary in lockstep; they vary together. When one element varies so does the other. We can state with absolute mathematical certainty that any change in the concentration of one of these elements, either the Barium or Strontium, is matched by the same change in the concentration of the other. Whatever process gave rise to the presence of either the Barium or the Strontium must have also produced the other as well. Fission is the only process that explains this.

    The presence of rare Trace elements such as Cerium, Yttrium and Lanthanum is enough to raise eyebrows in themselves, let alone in quantities of 50 ppm to well over 100 ppm. When the quantities then vary widely from place to place but still correlate with each other according to the relationships expected from nuclear fission, it is beyond ALL doubt that the variations in concentration are due to that same common process of nuclear fission.

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/01/mystery-solved-the-wtc-was-nuked-on-911/

    Even 9/11 Truther cold fusion physicist and controlled demolition advocate Steven Jones in the very same article repudiates the hypothesis,

    After being tipped off by an informant at the Department of Energy, Steven Jones set out to destroy P&F’s credibility. Jones knew P&F’s work had not yet been perfected, and took advantage of this. He performed his own cold fusion experiments using muon-catalyzed fusion (which differed from P&F electrochemically-induced process) and discounted the excess heat (free energy) that P&F had discovered. Jones then announced his decision to report his findings to the media, despite it not being published in a peer reviewed journal. (Normally, a scientist’s findings would first be peer reviewed and published before announcing to the general media.) P&F were urged to go public first, but were unable to openly detail their work because their patent had not yet been approved. This left the media unsatisfied and P&F in a very uncomfortable position. Jones’ had effectively discredited cold fusion to the media and at the same time prevented P&F from getting their patent.

    http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=95&Itemid=60

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  53. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    There was a nuke in the basement
    Rebuttal: No there wasn’t. None of the basic characteristics of a nuclear detonation (intense flash, thermal pulse, observable radial shockwave, or emission of nuclear radiation) were exhibited during the event.

    The flash wouldn’t have been seen, the thermal pulse was converted into the heat of vapourised or molten steel as well as converting the concrete to fine dust. A radial shockwave was possibly measured along with shockwave from the remaining solid structures as the landed. A fusion reaction would not have left large amounts of radionucleides (Sr, Ba as possible product radionucleides) were collected from harbour samples.

    https://donaldfox.wordpress.com/2013/01/

    Yet when the elements are studied together as they increase and decrease predictably across a dozen locations the outcome is clear. Fission occurred in NYC on 911.

    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=218036

    (5) By contrast, “FME” believes that the causal agent was single low-yield fissionless (no-radiation) fusion mini-nukes:
    “The thermonuclear bomb used was a ‘pure’ hydrogen bomb, so no uranium or plutonium [was used] at all. The basic nuclear reaction is Deuterium + Tritium > Alpha + n.”

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  54. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    Reid (15,459 comments) says:
    April 12th, 2014 at 10:45 am

    But your one of particle beam weapons pulverizing WTC 1 and 2 even more ludicrous and implausible. To date you even have not provide illustrations or techno info on its specifications etc.
    BTW another NWO order blunder it was not used on WTC 7.?

    UT, the impacts on the Towers were at the middle levels not he Basements Show me the t visual evidence of these detonations .in the basements.?

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  55. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    my god. what a debacle of a thread. i may as well add to it:

    * abortion is funny
    * christians are evil
    * muslims are awesome
    * gay marriage is bad and fags go to hell
    * gays shouldnt be allowed to adopt, but trannies are ok
    * putin is right about the ukraine
    * obama was born in samoa
    etc etc etc

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  56. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    Whale’s got an excellent analysis from Trotter on the abstaining Liabore voters. He says Winston’s pitching to them and that makes a lot of sense.

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/04/trotter-phrase-labourgreens-government-pass-plausibility-test/#more-132696

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  57. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Shades of Erdogan’s Turkey?

    Bundy family reports cell towers near ranch have been shut down, preventing communication & video uploads. #BundyRanch

    http://www.staticmediahub.com/2014/04/11/alert-on-the-ground-reports-cell-towers-shut-down-comms-thru-radio-only/

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  58. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Just released – an instant classic!

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  59. Fletch (6,387 comments) says:

    Christ New Zealand -Sorry ‘Republic of Aotearoa’…
    Stop being so bloody precious…

    Do you think he was clenching? I think he was clenching.
    I see these people started a protest on change.org asking for a public apology from CNN.

    http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/cnn-publically-apologise-for-racist-royal-bummer-report?share_id=NoRqBysRzz&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition

    They say the reporter was ‘racist’. Didn’t the couple specifically ask for no nudity?
    I thought I remember that. Maybe the dancers dressed that way out of spite. I’ve never seen bare bums in other Maori welcoming displays.

    To be honest, I didn’t agree with it. I had to laugh at the reporter’s saying that haka was, “a cross between a Chippendale lap dance and the mating dance of an emu”.

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  60. Fletch (6,387 comments) says:

    Dunno whether it is meritorious, but Lorde covers Nirvana’s All Apologies at the event of Nirvana’s entering the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame.

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  61. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Haha, Penny is a truther. Why am I not surprised….

    Have you ever considered why this stuff gets such traction?

    I mean, it is no longer possible to have a meaningful discussion about politics, science, facts, etc. because facts don’t matter any more, only opinions, and like assholes, everyone’s got one of those. The news media have abandoned their function of sorting the wheat from the chaff and now just do the “we report, you decide” thing. They egg it on under the guise of promoting individual freedom, but freedom from reason isn’t freedom, it is slavery.

    If you can’t speak truth to power, then power has its own way, unfettered by facts. That was the admitted policy of the Bush administration after all.

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  62. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Dunno whether it is meritorious, but Lorde covers Nirvana’s All Apologies at the event of Nirvana’s entering the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame.

    Still not as good as Ace Frehley’s RRHOF diarrhoea joke.

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  63. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    @ Komata
    “There was no communication with the outside world (not even with the islands of the Pacific), and a marked a disinclination to explore beyond the sight of land, an odd situation for a people who had travelled across the Pacific Ocean to arrive here and were aware of the paths of currents and the migration of birds. ”
    ……
    That could be explained by the fact that pigs and chickens never made it here: they couldn’t make those long trips as easily as some people suppose?

    I think that lack of Maori development could be explained by low population, time (500 years) and isolation while combined with a large land mass?

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  64. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    dime (11.23am): ..what a debacle of a thread..

    Yup – you’re right. Recently GD has been overrun by a lunatic fringe – the 911 fantasists / AGW theorists / religious fanatics.

    And by sheer volume of comments, they stifle anything meaningful and interesting.

    Bugger.

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  65. Fletch (6,387 comments) says:

    If conversations weren’t “meaningful” or “interesting” to people, then no one would reply and carry them on.

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  66. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Bad talk drives out good.

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  67. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    overrun by a lunatic fringe – the 911 fantasists / AGW theorists z/ religious fanatics. :lol;

    you do know that the lunatic fringe is those in denial of scientific findings dont you?

    AGW is fact
    it’s the WINGNUTS that stick their head in the sand that are lunatics.Almost all self identified conservative right wingers are scared of science :lol:

    Being Conservative is

    Identifying as a God whacking retard of the right..

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  68. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    There you go again UT re the mini Nuke fantasy. I note from your last post the links are full of “could be’s ” believes”and “maybes ” In other words purely speculative without empirical data, including visual evidence of detonations in the basements , flash burns, huge death and injury casualties from Neutrinos etc, etc.
    Any radiation or fissionable material consistent with a mini nuke blast is, of course, untraceable making it impossible to verify with any degree of accuracy..
    There is also nothing from the references provided in the Veteran’s Today article any evidence of peer review articles from reputable scientific journals backing up your Theory All there is speculation + speculation = speculation.
    Besides also the alleged findings contradict the views of leading Truther and physicists Steven Jones

    Still awaiting a whistleblower to come forward from on the day ,9/11/2001.?
    The whereabouts of the 200 passengers and flight crews. ?
    Your views on the particle beam weapons, with evidence , peddled by your fellow truther Reid. ?
    P.S Don’t forget the evidence re visuals of the alleged basement nuclear detonations please. ?

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  69. stigie (1,183 comments) says:

    Might as well go and watch some rugby for the afternoon !~

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  70. Rich Prick (1,701 comments) says:

    Jesus wept, I only waded through this thread because I’m a little bored and was looking for news from home. But, what a disgrace. Whack-jobs on conspiracy highs. Have I stumbled upon a Mana Party blog?

    PS to UT, I had a mini-nuke, creole alligator fried will do that, I caused greenhouse gases that would make the Greens have kittens and housekeeping weren’t at all impressed.

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  71. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Hi Rick Prick, still running from the facts about state corruption?

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  72. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    hj

    Thank you.

    The ‘chickens and pig’ idea is interesting, but as such creatures were apparently unknown in the Pacific before the Europeans arrived, this may be a ‘red herring’.

    The Maori DID have the Kuri (brought with them) and the Kiaori (?) (also brought with them) and were certainly able to catch fish, as they knew about net making and the use of lines. Given the latter capability, and that kumara and fern root were easy to carry (and small), logic says that the journeys were possible; yet they were never made. Maori were apparently not even aware of the existence of the Chatham islands. They also did not have the capability or inclination to even try to go beyond ‘visual range’ of the land mass of the New Zealand islands, or, at most, the visual reference point provided by the clouds. This situation was only altered by the arrival of ‘foreigners’ (of whatever ethnicity) in their large ocean-going ships.

    It has been suggested that Maori could not have returned to New Zealand from the islands as a result of the prevailing south-westerly winds. This has however been proven to be a fallacy, so that reason may have to be discounted as a ’cause’ for not ‘commuting’ back up the Pacific.

    Low population? perhaps not. If you are talking about the entire country, certainly, but if about the (relatively) intensely-settled areas (Auckland, Wellington), then that may not be the case. However, if folk-lore is to be believed, no-one seems to have considered the possibility o0f ‘going further out’..

    Granted the continual wars would not have helped, and probably any visionaries who suggested such a radical idea could have been ‘casualties’ for such impertinence, but it does make one wonder, why nothing like that was ever undertaken.

    As I said, previously, the entire race was ‘stuck’ under a technological ‘glass ceiling’ and quite happy to remain in that state forever; or. at least their ‘leaders’ would seem to have been. A mere across the skull is a very effective way of removing dissension within the ranks…

    The subject is always worth discussing, (objectively if at all possible). Hopefully I have presented the case in support of the contention and definition?

    Thanks.

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  73. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    More idiocy from stephieboy…

    in other words purely speculative without empirical data,

    The empirical data for the fission proof consisted of measurements of various atomic elements.

    including visual evidence of detonations in the basements

    If anyone saw one go off in the basement there wouldn’t be anything left of them.

    flash burns

    Felipe David’s burns

    huge death and injury casualties from Neutrinos

    Neutrinos don’t harm living tissue.

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  74. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    On arrival at new Zealand in its virgin state the imperative to cross to the next island would have been discarded as food .moa and flightless birds and marine mammals with no fear of man were abundant.

    It took around 300 years for maori to destroy these populations, long enough for the knowledge needed for ocean voyageing to be lost.

    Once this happened the population was greater than capacity for nz to carry

    The resultant resource competition was the driver behind the constant warfare
    Maori culture Shaped by the forces of famine and war over limited food resources. The crops they brought from the island degraded over time Maori Kumara were about the size of an adult finger. Fern roots are not particularly palatable. Karaka berry need a complex process to make it into edible food.

    nearly all pre contact skeletons examined show signs of periodic famine effecting health .

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  75. mandk (993 comments) says:

    Dime,
    If you want to see a really good video, check this out.
    It must be the sexiest thing ever caught on film.

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  76. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    dime (8,705 comments) says:
    April 12th, 2014 at 11:23 am
    my god. what a debacle of a thread. i may as well add to it:

    * abortion is funny
    * christians are evil
    * muslims are awesome
    * gay marriage is bad and fags go to hell
    * gays shouldnt be allowed to adopt, but trannies are ok
    * putin is right about the ukraine
    * obama was born in samoa
    etc etc etc

    You failed to mention anything about feminism – clearly you’re brave, but not THAT brave ;-)

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  77. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Newstalkzb are really having a field day attempting to promote overfat fugitive felon, Slobcom, his/their close ally Hadfield, and the deadbeat envious fools that support their pathetic parties. Just get this interfering, bribing, treacherous, obese bastard out of NZ, he is an alien, dishonest, and does not deserve residency, least of all citizenship, that is his aim, and he will bribe whoever he can to get it. He has extradition warrants, let us honour them.

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  78. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    “The empirical data for the fission proof consisted of measurements of various atomic elements.”

    But their findings are disputed by none other than Steven Jones . Also the presence of e.g Tritium could be accounted from components inside the 767s,watches and weapons carried by security and police details WTC.

    i

    “If anyone saw one go off in the basement there wouldn’t be anything left of them.”

    Even witnesses and media from a reasonable distance including actual videos of the Towers actually collapsing.? Show us the evidence from them.?
    I understand that none other than William Rodriguez was in the North Tower basement when the attacks took place. . How did he survive the alleged nuclear detonation.?

    “Felipe David’s burns”

    The only one.? Unbelievable and his alleged flash burns confirmed and diagnosed by Hospital or medical personnel .?

    “Neutrinos don’t harm living tissue.”

    Thats right but they kill people outright and zilch evidence of this.

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  79. MT_Tinman (3,186 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,692 comments) says:
    April 12th, 2014 at 12:11 pm
    If conversations weren’t “meaningful” or “interesting” to people, then no one would reply and carry them on.

    They don’t.

    It’s the same people posting the same thing 20-40 times a day.

    None of them reply to anything.

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  80. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Neutrinos don’t harm living tissue.”

    Thats right but they kill people outright and zilch evidence of this.

    http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/719/509/0ad.png

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  81. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    http://opr.ca.gov/s_denier.php

    If the experts agree on the existence and causes of climate change, why do some public opinion polls find that only about half or less than half of the American public is convinced that emissions from human activities bear responsibility?1,2

    A small but vocal group has aggressively spread misinformation about the science, aiming to cast doubt on well-established findings and conclusions. Their goal is to create confusion and uncertainty, thereby preventing meaningful action to remedy the problem. The same strategy was used cynically for decades by the tobacco industry after research showed that cigarettes caused cancer. In fact, some of the same individuals who have spoken out against climate science also claimed that cigarettes were safe. The term “denialism”3 has been coined to describe them.
    Description: gallup poll.gif
    Response to the survey question “Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?” (Doran 2009)General public data come from a 2008 Gallup poll.

    Many of the deniers share some traits:

    Many have little or no expertise in climate science. While some have some science background, their training often is unrelated to climate science and they have not published “peer-reviewed” scientific work in climate or atmospheric science.
    Many receive funding for their efforts from industries with a financial interest in ignoring climate change. Oil companies, coal-burning electric utilities, and other companies that make their profits from burning fossil fuels have funded denier organizations and scientists, just as tobacco companies funded people who claimed that second-hand smoke was safe.

    A famous tobacco industry document from the late 1960s said, “Doubt is our product, since it is the best means of competing with the ‘body of fact’ that exists in the minds of the general public.”4 It is a strategy that has worked, at least for awhile, in the past, and it is being repeated today.

    Academic research shows that one significant factor that leads to misunderstanding about climate change is a “deliberate and organized effort to misdirect the public discussion and distort the public’s understanding…This literature has revealed a great deal about the nature of efforts to deny and/or distort climate science. It clearly shows that a number of conservative think tanks, trade associations, and advocacy organizations are the key organizational components of a well-organized climate change counter-movement.”5

    There is a significant amount of funding used to perpetuate myths about climate change. Dr. Robert Brulle analyzed IRS data on philanthropic foundation funding between 2003 and 2010 to identify organizations involved in circulating denier arguments. The results show that that there are over 90 climate change counter-movement organizations with an annual income of just over $900 million, and over $60 million in identified foundational support.5 Because of the serious impacts of climate change, the delay and obfuscation tactics of the deniers are particularly concerning, which is why we present some responses to the denier arguments on this website.

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  82. Rich Prick (1,701 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (2,899 comments) says:
    April 12th, 2014 at 12:41 pm
    Hi Rick Prick, still running from the facts about state corruption?

    No, but our probes are still watching you and intercepting your thoughts. Please stop those thoughts of BBQ cat, it’s worrying our supervisors.

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  83. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You wouldn’t be trying to divert from an important issue with humour, would you? It’s not unknown behaviour around here.

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  84. Rich Prick (1,701 comments) says:

    I quit, it’s not funny to make fun of the unhinged. I’m sure there is an 0800 number, use it.

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  85. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ccnpa7ynmqsgl4/UT%208.jpg

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  86. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    addressed to KB commentators

    Thoughts from griff admitted agw nut

    You the community are not debating or engaging with each other

    DPF is absent climbing around the top of the world

    and all you lot do is complain about what others post

    The truther 9/11 Zionist fringe and those arguing against them is all there is..

    This is your united failure to have any thoughts worth defending or posting.

    :twisted: :lol:

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  87. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Same old condescension, eh Rich Prick?
    Well I guess I can hardly expect you to implicate yourself.

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  88. Yoza (1,872 comments) says:

    The thing that bugs me most about the 9/11 truth thing is even if they could prove conclusively that George W
    and the C.I.A. orchestrated the whole shebang, next to the crimes committed by the US and its allies against the Iraqis and Afghans, the 9/11 attacks were a minor incident.

    Invading two countries and slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people is an horrific crime, terrorists killing a few thousand is horrific, but it is justifiably denounced as a criminal act on a regular basis. The way the media and Western states cannot bring themselves to view both acts as criminal is the real conspiracy. The western establishment is conspiring with corporate media to present Mid.East Muslims as ‘unpeople’ there to be exterminated at our leisure.

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  89. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The western establishment is conspiring with corporate media to present Mid.East Muslims as ‘unpeople’ there to be exterminated at our leisure.

    A related case being the MSM coverage of the planned conspiracy by Erdogan’s people to start a war with Syria. The MSM mostly avoided mentioning that they were planning a false flag event, and I haven’t seen any MSM source mention that US secretary of state John Kerry was implicated in the conspiracy.

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  90. Rich Prick (1,701 comments) says:

    Yoza, a bunch of fucked up Muslims flew planes into buildings. The good news is a tyrant swung from a rope as a bonus. Otherwise, so what?

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  91. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Yoza, did hundreds of thousands of people get slaughtered by acts of American military violence? Er no.

    More civilians probably died as a result of bomb attacks by fellow Moslems.

    Yes the American policy in Afghanistan and Iraq was risable and destructive, but you forget how many were dying in Iraq under the earlier sanctions policy (and the Taleban regime was murderous with their constant executions), and any continuance would have also led to as many deaths.

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  92. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yoza, a bunch of fucked up Muslims flew planes into buildings.

    Where’s your tinfoil hat, Rich Prick? That is one batshit crazy conspiracy theory.

    The reality is that an extraordinary amount of energy was present which resulted in reports of molten steel and underground fires that burned for months. There is no way that this energy reconciles with the mainstream story.

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  93. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    America has over reached her international mandate or any moral based right when interfering with the rights of sovereign states to self determinate on a regular basis since ww2..

    As a starting point the isolation and embargo of cuba out lived its justification decades ago
    present USA policy is damning cuba to poverty needlessly .

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  94. Rich Prick (1,701 comments) says:

    Dunno UT looked pretty real on TV. Did Big Bird scare you as a child? Were you “touched”?

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  95. Yoza (1,872 comments) says:

    SPC (4,540 comments) says:
    April 12th, 2014 at 1:59 pm

    Yoza, did hundreds of thousands of people get slaughtered by acts of American military violence? Er no.

    The US military was the most organized highly resourced killing system in a country which reputable surveys calculated that up to, and in some instances over, a million people died as a consequence of the US led invasion. So there is no debate, the US military was directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, thirty years ago they would have been gloating about it
    When Iraqis were surveyed about whether they prefered the US running things or Saddam Hussein, over 70% said life was better under Hussein during the sanctions. That is a measure of how appalling the US invasions was, there is no argument.

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  96. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    Yoza , just in case you might be wavering even your hero Noam Chomsky puts the deluded 9/11 Truthers rightly in their place. An embarrassment to radical elements like him and others.
    Should be an embarrassment to you too.!

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/25/noam-chomsky-slaps-down-911-truther-people-spend-an-hour-on-the-internet-and-think-they-know-physics/

    There is no evidence that the US slaughtered hundreds and thousands of civilians in either Afghanistan or Iraq.Stop making stuff up.

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  97. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Dunno UT looked pretty real on TV.

    You saw “a bunch of fucked up Muslims” flying planes into buildings? I guess you’d have to be wearing an extra-special tinfoil hat to see that.

    Happily those of us who don’t live in Rick Prick’s fantasyland are able to check other sources, which conclusively show that the mainstream story can not account for the heat present at the twin towers in NY.

    The most probable source of this energy is nuclear fusion and/or fission, which limits the list of suspects quite considerably.

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  98. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Noam Chomsky puts the deluded 9/11 Truthers rightly in their place.

    “[Chomsky] noted that the Bush administration blamed the 9/11 attacks on Saudi hijackers. If the U.S. government had staged the attacks as a pretense to invade Iraq, they could have just as easily blamed Iraqi hijackers and avoided the need to “concoct wild stories about weapons of mass destruction” as their justification.”

    The problem with Chomsky’s argument is that the Iraqis could quite easily debunk the US allegations. The Saudis are not going to do this because of their defence relationship with the US.

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  99. publicwatchdog (2,593 comments) says:

    So, over 2000 QUALIFIED architects and engineers for 9/11 TRUTH are ‘deluded’ are they ‘stephieboy’?

    Not in my considered opinion.

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    Penny Bright

    Advanced Trade Sheet Metal Engineering
    Former Welding Tutor (for 9 years) at Manukau Institute of Technology

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/qualifications/

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  100. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    even if they could prove conclusively that George W and the C.I.A. orchestrated the whole shebang

    They can’t because that’s not who did it Yoza and there is conclusive proof that the official story is utter bollocks. That video above for example only needs to be watched to see that.

    But how many of them have watched it? Well no-one has raised any question at all raised in that video and there are significant questions in there.

    See, they don’t want to know. The fools hallucinate that in their vast understanding that if anything in 911 really was questionable then there’d be a massive media storm with sharp-eyed reporters and politicians demanding enquiries and then of course, naturally because in their hallucination, that’s the way the world works, the truth would be out and everyone would know. So they think, they don’t have to watch it, they already know the answer.

    I agree with you, the crimes following were much more significant, but you can see even with the latest ones in Syria and Ukraine that truth will never dawn amongst Western useful idiots. They live in the land of bread and circus distraction and they’ve lost the art of thinking.

    Edit: stephie you know nothing and you keep proving it. Just google ‘chomsky shill’ and see what it says. Duh.

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  101. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    @Penny

    http://www.examiner.com/article/george-wiseman-discusses-brown-s-gas-technology

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  102. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (2,907 comments) says:
    April 12th, 2014 at 2:47 pm

    But what Chomsky says has got to be true after all he is the guru of the radical left. As he eloquently states, you can’t understand 9/11 based on a 1 hour lesson in physics on You Tube etc..
    Umm, still scratching your conk over the fact Willaim Rodriguez unaccountably surviving a nuclear detonation in the North Tower basement.???
    Ok Reid, another try. An illustration and specifications of a particle beam weapon.?
    Whereabouts the 200 passengers and crew.?
    A govt etc whistleblower from 9/11.?

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  103. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    Reid and UT will just love this,

    We take you into the mind of a Sandy Nook Truther: CIA Conspiracy? 7 Shooters? An Attempt to ‘Disarm People and Attack the 2nd Amendment’?

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/04/we-take-you-inside-the-mind-of-a-sandy-hook-truther-cia-conspiracy-7-shooters-an-attempt-to-disarm-peo

    A perfect compliment to the delusional world of a 9/11 Twoofer.!

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  104. gonzo (5 comments) says:

    From a quick search there looks like there might be 1.75M “qualified” engineers and architects in the US.
    So 2000 = ~0.1%.
    Of course, the other 99.9% are more than likely part of the cover up – dirty bastards.

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  105. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    I told you stephie, he’s a shill. Do you know what that means? Alex Jones is also a shill.

    I’ve never mentioned particle beam weapons BTW so not sure why you hallucinate I need to address your numerous shrill pleadings today on those.

    However if in your confusion you’re talking about the most likely cause in my opinion of the tower collapses being a directed energy weapon, then I won’t be responding to that until you can give me a precis of the video I posted above, because why should I waste my time responding to you if you won’t even review the information I’ve already posted. So do that first and I’ll ask you a few questions about it in a few hours when you finish. Otherwise talk to the hand. I don’t care which option you chose so don’t bother asking why should you do that.

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  106. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth:

    You saw “a bunch of fucked up Muslims” flying planes into buildings? I guess you’d have to be wearing an extra-special tinfoil hat to see that.

    UglyTruth talking about tinfoil hats!

    *Giggle*

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  107. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “The US military was the most organized highly resourced killing system in a country which reputable surveys calculated that up to, and in some instances over, a million people died as a consequence of the US led invasion.”

    A million? Love to see evidence for that, preferable from a reputable source.

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  108. Pete George (23,561 comments) says:

    Dotcom is keen.
    Harawira (Hone) is keen.
    Mana Party members debate and decide.
    Dotcom “is leading the discussion with MANA on behalf of the Internet Party.”

    http://www.politicheck.org.nz/factchecks/2014/4/12/will-party-members-decide-on-manainternet-party-alliance

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  109. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “However if in your confusion you’re talking about the most likely cause in my opinion of the tower collapses being a directed energy weapon,”

    Then your opinion is retarded.

    “Directed energy weapon” is by far and away the most retarded claim possible, right up their with Nazi UFO’s and shape shifting lizard people.

    And you have zero evidence for this, or for any other claim. But then, evidence is not necessary for Jew hating morons who happily work as useful idiots for Muslim terrorists.

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  110. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Reid
    Would you mind explaining for Ugly why the towers could not have been destroyed by a mininuke but instead were brought down by a directed energy weapon?

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  111. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ugly
    Would you mind explaing for Reid why the towers could not have been destroyed by a directed energy weapon but instead were brought down by a mininuke?

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  112. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “The Veteran’s Today article”

    As I revealed a couple of days ago, VT is another Jew hating rag with zero credibility.

    People who use such sources as evidence for anything might as well be using Mein Kampf or Nazi “documentaries” about the Jews.

    No person with an ounce of intelligence or self-respect would quote from a source like VT.

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  113. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yeah, well Reid’s bneen known to use Nazi propaganda films to show that conditions in the concentration camps were actually okay.

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  114. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Heh, not even one of the sources UT uses agrees. Apparently the mininuke claim is more disinfo.

    http://www.henrymakow.com/beware_bogus_9-11_truth_theori.html

    Cripes, the truther morons are fighting amongst themselves as to which retarded conspiracy theory is is real!!! :)

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  115. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Yeah, well Reid’s bneen known to use Nazi propaganda films to show that conditions in the concentration camps were actually okay.”

    Your kidding right? Seriously?

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  116. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo…. Not again.

    The same old, same old…. *shakes head*

    Time to go for a walk. Call me when the kids have gone to bed and the adults are allowed to talk. :roll:

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  117. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Would you mind explaing for Reid why the towers could not have been destroyed by a directed energy weapon but instead were brought down by a mininuke?

    I can’t discount the possibility that DEWs were used since there are some reports that mininukes can’t explain.
    DEWs are much harder to prove.
    My main problem with Dr Wood is that she attempted to debunk the molten steel. Theories that appeared late in the game (eg no planes) are more likely to be disinfo…

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  118. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Since there are some reports that mininukes can’t explain, doesn’t that lead you to rule out mininukes? And if Wood debunked molten steel, which you ‘know’ was there, doesn’t that rule out a directed enrgy weapon?

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  119. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    Would you mind explaining for Ugly why the towers could not have been destroyed by a mininuke but instead were brought down by a directed energy weapon?

    The pulverisation mm. 95% of the matter was turned into dust. That’s not gravity. If gravity had caused the collapse the pile of rubble would have been 33 stories high, which is the ratio that always happens to the rubble when a building is collapsed by controlled demolition. In those towers the rubble pile as one storey high. There was nothing left. All that dust.

    The video I gave you yesterday which you probably didn’t even watch despite it taking less than 30 seconds to do so, showed a falling column disappearing into dust, in mid air and it also showed some of the central support columns, massive structures, also disappearing into dust, which they were just standing there. Very interesting stuff. Because normally hundreds of tonnes of steel doesn’t do that, just turn to dust without anything around it, just like that. Does it.

    I don’t know that much about the building collapse mechanism because it’s not a part of 911 that interests me, but as I understand it, directed energy weapons can do what those videos showed and I know Tesla was working on those and I know when he died all his papers disappeared and I know both the US and Russia have weaponised Tesla technology.

    I don’t know about micro-nukes because as I say, it’s not an area of particular interest but as far as I know it would not turn matter to dust like we all saw that day, but maybe I’m wrong.

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  120. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth:

    Can you clear something up for me?

    UglyTruth (2,908 comments) says:
    April 12th, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    Yoza, a bunch of fucked up Muslims flew planes into buildings.

    Where’s your tinfoil hat, Rich Prick? That is one batshit crazy conspiracy theory.

    The reality is that an extraordinary amount of energy was present which resulted in reports of molten steel and underground fires that burned for months. There is no way that this energy reconciles with the mainstream story.

    Forget about the “bunch of fucked up Muslims” for a moment. Do you accept that planes flew into buildings, or do you consider that the footage was faked?

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  121. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Heh, not even one of the sources UT uses agrees. Apparently the mininuke claim is more disinfo.

    The title is misleading, Soderberg is talking about 150 kiloton nukes but micronukes only deliver 0.01 – 0.02 kilotons.

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  122. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    Dotcom “is leading the discussion with MANA on behalf of the Internet Party.”

    Pete you have to wonder don’t you how a serious political party could possibly entertain such an alliance given what’s happened over the last few days with the indictments.

    Maybe politicheck could investigate the allegation that Hone really is as thick as two planks.

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  123. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    One of Reid’s heroes, in his own words.

    “The Jews are “the filthiest and greatest of criminals, who [only] appear to be human,” said Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad during a speech last week.

    Speaking to a huge crowd in the central Iranian city of Shahrekord, Ahmadinejad declared that the West had gathered together the Jews and “organized and armed them—on artificial and false pretexts, fabricating information and inventing stories. They gave [the Jews] propaganda and military backing so that they would occupy the lands of Palestine and uproot the Palestinian nation.”

    Ahmadinejad’s latest comments only served to reiterate his blatantly anti-Semitic worldview. He has repeatedly denied the Holocaust, called for the destruction of Israel, and referred to Zionists as the most “detested” people on Earth.”

    http://fighthatred.com/recent-events/national-political-hate/742-ahmadinejad-jews-arent-human

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  124. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Do you accept that planes flew into buildings

    Yes.

    Do you accept that the mainstream story is unable to account for the presence of an extraordinary amount of energy which resulted in reports of molten steel and underground fires that burned for months?

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  125. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Pete George:

    Any chance of you tidying up the formatting of your Politicheck NZ website?

    The formatting is a bit of a turn-off, really, and makes the content quite hard to read.

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  126. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    One of Shawn’s heroes, in his genuine own words, not a deliberate mistranslation aimed at the useful idiots who lap up Zionist propaganda.

    It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .

    I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-Semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . .

    The anti-Semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews.

    The anti-Semites shall be our best friends”

    Theodor Herzl, Founder of Zionism in 1897

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  127. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth:

    Yes.

    So next question: who do you think flew the planes (that’s plural as in more than one plane) into the buildings (again that’s plural as in more than one building), and why?

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  128. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Just to clear up a small point for Reid about the volume of material, etc in the WTC:
    Some conspiracy theorists claim that large amounts of the buildings were unaccounted for by the size of the rubble pile. Since only 12% of the building volume was solid, the towers should collapse into a pile 12% of the original height of the building, or just about 50 meters high. Since 18 meters of that pile would be filling the basement, the above-ground portion would be 32 meters high.
    The actual rubble pile reached the fifth story of adjacent buildings, so well outside the footprint of the tower the pile was five stories, or about 15 meters high. The pile would have been roughly conical, and would have included a lot of void space, increasing its height and offsetting the larger diameter of the pile. Overall the rubble pile is what you’d expect.
    So it simply isn’t true that the rubble pile is only a small percentage of what would be expected. Some conspiracy sites allege that the rubble pile is only 5% of what would be expected. Others use a figure of 33% as the height of a rubble pile relative to the original building and then argue that the pile should have been 140 or so meters high. But when Controlled Demolition Inc. (http://www.controlled-demolition.com) dropped a 23-story, 439-foot (134 m) building in Detroit in 1997, they ended up with a pile averaging 35 feet high (11 m) and a maximum of 60 feet (18 m) high. The rubble pile was an average of 8% of the height of the original building and a maximum of 14%. Scaling that up to the World Trade Center, we get heights of 33 to 58 meters. In other words, the rubble pile at the World Trade Center is totally in line with other large building collapses. 33% may work for a small building a few stories high, but a large building will compress the debris pile a lot more and also fill void spaces more effectively with pulverized debris.

    http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pseudosc/911NutPhysics1.HTM

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  129. Pete George (23,561 comments) says:

    Nostradamus – yeah, it’s not the best but it’s an interim option. It was either use that and start, or wait for the website to be developed, with volunteers we have to be a bit patient for that.

    It’s allowed us to accumulate a bit of content and try a few things out.

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  130. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    An expose of Veteran’s Today.

    “Veterans Today (VT) is a website that bills itself as a “military veterans and foreign affairs journal.” And, indeed, many of its contributors are military veterans or veterans’ advocates from across the political spectrum. VT also offers some information about veterans’ benefits (lifted from the Veterans’ Administration) and links to home and other loans for vets.

    But start reading the posts, and you’ll find something else entirely: myriad claims that there was a conspiracy behind 9/11 (Israel orchestrated it, in cahoots with the American government), that the American government is a puppet (of Israel), that the Holocaust never happened or was greatly exaggerated (Jews made it up to manipulate non-Jews), and, most recently, that Julian Assange, the man behind Wikileaks, is a pawn (of Israel).

    Notice a theme?”

    http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/01/06/buyer-beware-veterans-today-and-its-anti-israel-agenda/

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  131. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    Has anyone mentioned Michael Jackson and the Illuminati yet? Always thought that Thriller video was a bit suspect. What about the pending triple lunar eclipse? I mean sign of the apocalypse and all that. Time to look up the root of the word ‘lunatic’ one feels.

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  132. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Another example of Reid’s retarded gullibility.

    The Herzl “quote” he uses is FAKE.

    Fake zionist quotes 2: Herzl: “The anti-Semites shall be our best friend”.

    “This quote has spread like a wildfire on the internet, among antisemites and uncritical haters of Israel, but it is fake. It is a falsification.”

    http://liberology.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/fake-zionist-quotes-2-herzl-the-anti-semites-shall-be-our-best-friend/

    Reid, a gullible Jew hating idiot.

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  133. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Notice a theme?

    The Zionist Crime Syndicate is a nasty business.

    Fake zionist quotes 2: Herzl: “The anti-Semites shall be our best friend”.

    ShawnLH is contradicting his own reference.

    http://www.frihetssmedjan.se/wp-content/uploads/DSC_00181.jpg

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  134. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    We’re still a few days off the full moon, itstricky. Kiwiblog really lights up then, though.

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  135. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “he Zionist Crime Syndicate is a nasty business.”

    Nazi pig.

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  136. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Pete:

    It’s your project, but my suggestion (for what it’s worth) is that you could try the following:

    – assign a number to each “fact check” (eg Fact Check 1)
    – create a separate web page for each fact check enquiry.

    It’d reduce the clutter on the main page.

    Just out of interest, how many of these fact checks do you envisage will occur during the election campaign?

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  137. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    Just to clear up Shawn’s useful idiocy, from http://www.truetorahjews.org/

    http://www.truetorahjews.org/naziismzionism

    Learn to distinguish propaganda from truth Shawn, lest you sup with the devil. (Which you’re doing at the moment.)

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  138. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    lest you sup with the devil.

    His literally is the devil (devil, from diablos, means slanderer).

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  139. Harriet (4,970 comments) says:

    mandk (678 comments) says:
    April 12th, 2014 at 1:04 pm
    Dime,
    If you want to see a really good video, check this out.
    It must be the sexiest thing ever caught on film.

    ————————————–

    mandk

    It might not be the sexiest but it’s heading there:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tj6kYfAmt8

    Sylvie Vartan: La Plus Belle Pour Aller Danser (1963, Cherchez l’Idole)

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  140. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Learn to distinguish propaganda from truth Shawn,”

    Attempting to hide your Jew hatred behind a tiny, fringe group that the vast majority of Jews do not take seriously is a standard tactic for some neo-Nazi Jew haters.

    The so-called “truetorahjews” whackjobs have no more credibility than Stormfront.

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  141. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Funny caption (with accompanying photo) on Stuff:

    WELCOME LAID BARE: The Duchess of Cambridge speaks with a bare-bottomed Maori warrior.

    The caption relates to the following story:

    CNN view on powhiri strikes a bum note

    CNN reporter Jeanne Moos has apologised for describing the formal powhiri that welcomed the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge to Government House in Wellington on Monday as a “royal bummer”.

    Her video report showed the well-circulated shots of a heavily tattooed and bare-bottomed warrior greeting Kate and made jest of the traditional Maori welcome.

    “Technically the only one being bummed was the warrior with his decorated buns exposed,” Moos remarked.

    “Is this any way to welcome a future king and queen?” she asked.

    Wellingtonian Jayden Evett, 18, did not see the news item as funny, describing it as “incredibly racist” and a “a blatant disregard of cultural sensitivity”.

    Evett has complained to CNN, and after encouragement from friends and family, started a petition yesterday morning asking the channel for an apology. He had more than his goal of 500 signatures by mid-afternoon.

    Today Moos offered an apology.

    “Duly noted. I do humour and satire, and I am truly sorry if the tone of my story offended anyone.”

    Jayden Evett – hmmm… something tells me this guy has left-leaning political ambitions…

    Edit: well, there’s a surprise, he was a Youth Member of Parliament for Hutt South in July 2013.

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  142. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    Sorry mm, maybe 10% wasn’t right but it was vastly less than expected. Even the media admitted it turned into dust. I guess they just hadn’t been issued the right talking points at the time. Lying in unison probably takes awhile to get up to speed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJb-GPtb2I0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdBQOe85i3M

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  143. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The so-called “truetorahjews” whackjobs have no more credibility than Stormfront.

    ShawnLH, their page about Herzl re “The anti-Semites shall be our best friend” uses the same source photographs as the page that you used to try to debunk them.

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  144. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    UglyNazi,

    and the article shows Reid’s quote is a fake.

    Nazi pig.

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  145. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    I can almost see the fanatical UT shouting Allah Akbar while facing Mecca. Sanity rules.

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  146. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘try to debunk them’. You seriously believe that Herzl quote is genuine?

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  147. Pete George (23,561 comments) says:

    Nostradamus – thanks, feedback is good, we’ll be learning and improving as we go.

    Just out of interest, how many of these fact checks do you envisage will occur during the election campaign?

    I don’t know, as much as possible. it depends on time and resources. All voluntary. We’re looking for more researchers, some of that is time consuming.

    We’re also looking to work with anyone who’s interested in contributing. We’ll be complementing and co-operating with media and with blogs. Working with any MPs and parties who are interested, both accepting submissions of issues to check (with as much detail as possible) and seeking input from them. That’s starting to work but could become a significant part of it when they see the benefits.

    The more input and assistance we get the more we’ll be able to do.

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  148. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “As you can see there are great differences between the Herzl quote first mentioned and the real quote. The beginning is manipulated and the text “will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews” has been inserted.”

    Read the whole article UglyNazi.

    http://liberology.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/fake-zionist-quotes-2-herzl-the-anti-semites-shall-be-our-best-friend/

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  149. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You seriously believe that Herzl quote is genuine?

    Like I said, both sites use the same source photos. Reid’s quote “The anti-Semites shall be our best friend” is true.

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  150. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Sorry Reid, but were you disagreeing with the passage I quoted which said ‘the rubble pile at the World Trade Center is totally in line with other large building collapses’?

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  151. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “The anti-Semites shall be our best friend”

    Look at the article and read the above comment IN CONTEXT. It does not say what you claim.

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  152. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Reid’s quote “The anti-Semites shall be our best friend” is true.”

    Reid did not quote that one sentence liar. He quoted the juiced up version.

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  153. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Look at the article and read the above comment IN CONTEXT. It does not say what you claim.

    Fuck off liar. Anyone can look at the source photographs and see for themselves.

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  154. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Sorry mm, maybe 10% wasn’t right but it was vastly less than expected.”

    And the story keeps changing as the cracks in the whackjob conspiracy theories show.

    Twist and turn, twist and turn, round and round the mulberry bush, where Reid stops nobody knows.

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  155. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth:

    Have you thought of an answer to this question:

    So next question: who do you think flew the planes (that’s plural as in more than one plane) into the buildings (again that’s plural as in more than one building), and why?

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  156. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    ” Anyone can look at the source photographs and see for themselves.”

    Fuck off Nazi pig. Anyone can read the article and see Reid’s juiced up version is bullshit.

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  157. Steve (North Shore) (4,561 comments) says:

    Full moon, Kiwiblog realy lights up then – does it what!
    The lunatics are jostling for position already – having an early start. Amazing what the children get up to when the boss is away

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  158. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Reid did not quote that one sentence liar.

    Yes he did, liar. That one sentence was part of this post.

    Like I said previously, Reid’s quote “The anti-Semites shall be our best friend” is true. If I was referring to the full text that he quoted then I would have indicated as much.

    As usual you are misrepresenting the facts.

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  159. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Anti-Israelism is Anti-Semitism: an Interview with Manfred Gerstenfeld

    http://www.newenglishreview.org/Jerry_Gordon/Anti-Israelism_is_Anti-emitism%3A_an_Interview_with_Manfred_Gerstenfeld/

    The Politics of Muslim Anti-Semitism by Daniel Pipes

    http://www.danielpipes.org/161/the-politics-of-muslim-anti-semitism

    The new anti-Semitism

    A document once used by the Nazis to stir up hatred of Jews and long known to be a forgery is once again being circulated, this time by Muslim scholars.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jun/22/religion.guardiancolumnists

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  160. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Have you thought of an answer to this question:

    I asked first, Nostradamus. My question was:

    Do you accept that the mainstream story is unable to account for the presence of an extraordinary amount of energy which resulted in reports of molten steel and underground fires that burned for months?

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  161. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Yes he did, liar. That one sentence was part of this post.”

    Yes, part of a juiced up quote that has fake insertions.

    He lied and your trying to cover his ass.

    As usual your Nazi Jew hatred is leading you to misrepresent the facts.

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  162. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth:

    I’m interested in the plane angle because, one way or another, your molten steel theory surely needs to accommodate it. You’ve been talking about the molten steel theory for quite some time now, so I thought it’d be good to add a new dimension to the discussion.

    But if you don’t want to have a sensible discussion, then no problem.

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  163. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I’m interested in the plane angle because, one way or another, your molten steel theory needs to accommodate it.

    No, it doesn’t.

    My question to you remains unanswered.

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  164. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth:

    I don’t think this is especially complicated:

    – You agree that planes flew into buildings.
    – You agree, presumably, that these are the buildings that came crashing down.
    – You offer a theory that is different from the mainstream theory regarding why the buildings came crashing down.

    That begs the question: who was responsible (in your view) for the planes flying into the buildings, and why?

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  165. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Since you won’t answer the question, the only rational conclusion is that you are unable to explain the defects in the mainstream position.

    You offer a theory that is different from the mainstream theory regarding why the buildings came crashing down.

    No, what I’m saying is that the facts prove that nuclear fission was an energy source, and there is evidence of nuclear fusion as well. The correlations of Sr/Ba concentrations conform to a fission reaction, and the high levels of tritium can’t be explained as originating from conventional sources.
    The question of who then becomes a question of who has access to micronukes/mininukes.

    The country at the top of the list has a semi secret nuclear facility, reportedly with weapons facilities, and had a history of security involvement at the WTC.

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  166. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “The country at the top of the list has a semi secret nuclear facility, and had a history of security involvement at the WTC.”

    Translation: ‘THE EVIL JEWS DID IT.”

    Vile Nazi pig.

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  167. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Your translation, not mine, devil-boy.

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  168. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    More quotes from the founder of Zionism.

    “The only possible final and successful solution of the Jewish Question requires a billion franks…

    …we want to let successful anti-semites participate in our project”

    [Speaking to wealthy Jewish bankers] “I don’t know whether all governments already realise what an international menace your World House constitutes. Without you, no wars can be waged… For the year 1895 the military expenses of the Great Powers have been estimated at four billion francs…. And these military forces, you command financially, regardless of the conflicting desires of the nations.”

    “I am against democracy…We shall impose firm but extensive limits on public opinion”

    And something that should be particularly chilling to Shawn, provided he isn’t infected by Satan:

    “By God, I understand the Will to Good.”

    Those of us who understand these things which may or may not include Shawn know that Satan’s desire is that man’s will should prevail over God’s. That’s why Aleister Crowley issued his famous saying: “Do what thou wilt.” Modern derivations are things like: if it feels good, do it.

    All satanic, whether or not you believe it and whether or not you understand it. Hopefully Shawn does, but one assumes he won’t admit it if he does. And here we have the founder of Zionism telling us he thinks the same thing.

    http://jodenhaat.nl/DagboekenHerzl.pdf

    The so-called “truetorahjews” whackjobs have no more credibility than Stormfront.

    Whereas Daniel Pipes does? What a roaring mental you are Shawn, you’ve got no idea, do you.

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  169. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Debunking UglyNazi’s hysterical bullshit

    Molten steel was found in the basement seven weeks later and jet fuel can’t melt steel.

    Rebuttal: There is no documented evidence of the presence of actually-melted steel at ground zero. The molten material noted in the 911 Commission report was “slag”, not a molten metal. Most of the reports of “molten steel” found at ground zero were merely references to obviously red-hot solid steel. Even if they actually found “molten” metal, aluminum (which the planes were made out of) melts well under the temperature of jet fuel (pure aluminum melts at 660C, jet fuel burns around 980C[14] going up to 2,200C[15][16][17]). In addition, the mix of jet fuel, plastics, rugs, curtains etc. may burn hot enough to melt aluminum.
    Additionally, the melting point of steel is within the range of 1425-1540C[18], well outside the temperatures recorded at Ground Zero in the weeks following the attacks. What conspiracy theorists fail to note is that steel thermally expands while it remains strong and thus fire rapidly destroys uninsulated steel structures, and steel begins to lose its structural integrity (and red hot steel itself burns in air or in the presence of steam) at well below its melting point, or 700-820C, well within temperatures recorded at ground zero in the weeks following the attacks). Meanwhile, molten steel is not typically found at the site of buildings that have actually been demolished using “explosives” to sever columns. Also, the first law of thermodynamics prevents even the super hot molten product of thermite charges from remaining molten long after thermite ignition. Therefore, whatever molten materials were observed at ground zero in the weeks following the collapses, that molten material was not originally present and molten at the time of the collapses (it began to melt after the collapses, not before the collapses).
    That all being said, a 767 Family plane can carry up to 90,000 Liters of fuel in it’s hull. It is estimated the two planes had about 28,000 Liters left in their tanks which is spread all over the hull from the wings to the fuselage (for ballast and balance control). The crash and shredding of the plane hardware caused the fuel to detonate almost instantly. Since it was not a controlled burn it is likely to hit the highest end of the combustion scale at it’s core causing simultaneous ignition of anything around that was combustible and causing severe damage to load bearing pillars.

    There was a nuke in the basement

    Rebuttal: No there wasn’t. None of the basic characteristics of a nuclear detonation (intense flash, thermal pulse, observable radial shockwave, or emission of nuclear radiation) were exhibited during the event. The physics departments of NYU, Columbia, Stuyvesant High School, and every other school in the area would have been all over that with Geiger counters, and most of Lower Manhattan would now be uninhabitable. (Also, to put it in perspective, the 1988 PEPCON explosion in Nevada was less than a tenth of the size of the Little Boy explosion at Hiroshima in 1945, and not even half the size of the fizzled North Korean nuclear test in 2006. That’d have to be one hell of a small nuke,[23] and it doesn’t even begin to take into account that the tower collapses started from the impact sites, not the basement.)

    The shockwave also would have easily registered on seismic counters all over the world that listen for nuclear testing.

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  170. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    The announcement last year that Windows XP will no longer be supported didn’t exactly fill me with joy. I’ve actually bought a new desktop with Windows 7 but I’m currently thinking that if I’ve got to get used to a new system I might as well go the whole hog & dump Mr Gates’ bug magnets in favour of Linux.

    So far I’ve short listed Mint, Bodhi & Pinguy as possibles. Has anyone here any advice as to the best, bearing in mind that I need an OS to support Firefox, act as a wordprocesser, store a few files & not much else.

    Also any suggestions for Linux instruction manuals not intended solely for the use of geeks…..something about the level of distros for the perpetually bewildered would be about what I’m after.

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  171. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I asked this earlier Reid, but were you disagreeing with the passage I quoted which said ‘the rubble pile at the World Trade Center is totally in line with other large building collapses’?

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  172. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    So far I’ve short listed Mint, Bodhi & Pinguy as possibles. Has anyone here any advice as to the best, bearing in mind that I need an OS to support Firefox, act as a wordprocesser, store a few files & not much else.

    For a first timer I’d recommend Mint. You can still run your XP programs from VirtualBox if you’ve got enough memory.

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  173. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Not a good day for anyone on a Hutt Valley sports field wearing green ….

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  174. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Molten steel was found in the basement seven weeks later and jet fuel can’t melt steel.

    Rebuttal: There is no documented evidence of the presence of actually-melted steel at ground zero.

    Did it yesterday.

    There was a nuke in the basement

    Rebuttal: No there wasn’t.

    See above.

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  175. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    ANTI-ZIONISM: THE SOPHISTICATED ANTI-SEMITISM

    “It is the perpetual trick of the racist to force his victim to appear to be the hater”

    http://www.ajcarchives.org/AJC_DATA/Files/737.PDF

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  176. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    SPC
    Say it isn’t so…

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  177. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Losing to Petone 19-20. Hardham Cup?

    and the Rams now dominant over the Wainui sheep (17-13).

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  178. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Can’t see them outside the top eight. Early days yet.

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  179. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    What to do with these buggers? The bottom of the sea looks like an atttractive proposition:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11236657

    The number of migrants sailing from Africa to Italy resembles a “biblical exodus”, the head of the Italian navy said yesterday.

    Adml Giuseppe De Giorgi said his ships had rescued 18,546 migrants, including Syrians and sub-Saharan Africans, since October, following the deaths of 364 migrants when their boat caught fire. The peak came this week when 4,000 were intercepted by the navy in 48 hours.

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  180. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yes Manolo, Kill them all, eh? What a fuckwit.

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  181. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    mikenmild is right. This can only mean that the end is nigh…

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  182. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    Yes, comrade mike. A few of them will be sent to live with you to enjoy your socialist hospitality. :-)

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  183. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    mikenmild, I cannot see Poneke and Norths being with Wellington and Johnsonville in the Hardham Cup, there will be some in green there too.

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  184. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    For Reid:

    THE TRUE ROOTS OF ANTI-SEMITISM.

    A Biblical Refutation of Accusations against the Jews and Israel by Norman Manzon.

    http://www.biblestudyproject.org/antisemitism-3true-roots-refutations.htm

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  185. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I reckon the bottom 4 at the moment will probably stay there. Hutt to make a strong resurgence from mid-table.

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  186. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    Chardonnay socialist Blair Bliar was enjoying Murdoch’wife, or so it seems:
    http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1476158/wendis-rumoured-affair-tony-blair-led-divorce-rupert-murdoch-says

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  187. big bruv (13,888 comments) says:

    Poneke in the Hardam Cup!……nothing would put a smile on my face more than that.

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  188. Steve (North Shore) (4,561 comments) says:

    Nasska, not a lot of diff between WinXP and Win7, they just put stuff in different places.
    Win8 will piss you off, but the upgrade aint bad. The next platform will bring back the XP/7 type desktop.

    There are people who like the wide open highways, and there are people who travel on the lumpy dust metal roads (5%)
    A Window system costs like $140 so why be different and do all of the conversion and adapting shit?

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  189. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    It looks like Wainui and Norths that are most at risk of the ignominy, but HOBM and Poneke are the teams that are next in line.

    With the new comp format next year it does not mean much. Avalon will be back. It looks as if Wests is a dying club and they will have to merge with either OBU or Johnsonville. That means 13 teams, so an opportunity for Paremata-Plimmerton to provide a 14th team (perhaps with some loan players from Kapiti-Horowhenua).

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  190. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    Steve

    I went & bought a new Lenovo with Win7 & it’s still sitting unopened in the box.

    I thought I might use the old XP machine & learn the Linux thing….if I can make it work the sheer convenience of not having to bugger around with anti virus, anti malware & Window’s endless updates would make it worthwhile.

    UT @ 5.58pm

    Thanks.

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  191. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    nasska, so what you are looking for is to invest in a Windows free future.

    To me that would be akin to Reid ending his Luciferian/Illuminati/Zionist synagogue of satan conspiracy theory – what and who would I then vent about and at while on-line?

    To me it’s not Gates having a Jewish mother, but its the software he has to atone for with good works.

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  192. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    ….”what and who would I then vent about and at while on-line?”….

    We’re adaptable creatures SPC…..something & someone would turn up. :)

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  193. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    nasska, Key and English have been too moderate.

    But selling the Genesis shares too cheap is bad, really bad government – that could get you angry when you think how stupid that was … of course a nice way to get a 20% return pa with a 10-15% dividend return plus the bonus shares (its hard to remain angry when making such a good return). Bastards.

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  194. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    Maybe the Labour/Greens efforts to sabotage the earlier sales may have had a bearing on the asking price SPC.

    Politically there would be less fallout from a lower return than being left with unsold shares.

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  195. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth:

    Since you won’t answer the question, the only rational conclusion is that you are unable to explain the defects in the mainstream position.

    No, actually, the only rational conclusion is that you can’t read. It’s best not to put words in my mouth.

    As I said quite clearly above:

    I’m interested in the plane angle because, one way or another, your molten steel theory surely needs to accommodate it. You’ve been talking about the molten steel theory for quite some time now, so I thought it’d be good to add a new dimension to the discussion.

    You’ve been banging on about that molten steel theory for the past couple of days. You’re not convincing anyone (with the possible exception of Reid), and no-one else is convincing you of their position either. Blah blah blah. Back-and-forth, sideways, upside-down and inside-out. It’s boring. So forget about that for a moment.

    What was the point of having the planes flying into the buildings, and who was responsible? Are you suggesting that it was all a smokescreen to cover up the real cause for the collapsed buildings?

    And please elaborate on precisely what you mean when you said (as you did above): “The country at the top of the list has a semi secret nuclear facility, and had a history of security involvement at the WTC”.

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  196. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    ubuntu is free
    works fine as an internet interface mostly.
    It’s not as prone to virus and a surprising amount of software is freeware
    all open source…
    no profit to monosloth.

    Nasska needs separate machine for porn surfing
    baaaaaaa

    and moo counting and that other tax and business crap is best totally separate.

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  197. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    You’ve hit on what I was looking at Griff. I thought I could keep the new desktop offline & solely for business & use a Linux based machine for the internet.

    What’s this “porn surfing” you mention? :)

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  198. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (890 comments) says:

    “Man.Com alliance has the potential to sweep John Key off power” – The one and only Matt the Chief McCarten.

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  199. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    No, actually, the only rational conclusion is that you can’t read.

    Really? Why would I pay any regard to your lying?

    It’s best not to put words in my mouth.

    Do you think that I did that?

    As I said quite clearly above:

    I’m interested in the plane angle because, one way or another, your molten steel theory surely needs to accommodate it.

    Again, no, it doesn’t.

    I can read, Nostradamus, and you lying about it doesn’t change a thing.

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  200. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth:

    I can read, Nostradamus, and you lying about it doesn’t change a thing.

    *Sigh*

    I give up – there’s really no point wasting any more time on you.

    I notice you have a habit of accusing people who don’t agree with you of lying. As debating tactics go, that’s just pathetic. I challenge you to find any comment on Kiwiblog over the past eight years where I have (unjustifiably) accused someone of lying. That’s not my style.

    So here’s my parting shot to you UglyTruth: go fuck yourself!

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  201. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Do you think planes flew in to the buildings, Ugly?

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  202. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    nasska, a business would not sell assets earning more than the cost of debt. The cost of debt is c4 to 4.5%.

    Signalling a commitment to offload that many shares in a 3 year period, regardless of share price, was economic insanity.

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  203. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Nostrodamus
    It’s just a habit of Ugly’s: when someone disagrees with him they must be lying. It’s an indication of his generally paranoid state of mind. Don’t take it too personally: it’s just a symptom of his illness.

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  204. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    The roman catholic church.
    And woman since ?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/10/jesus-wife_n_5124712.html
    An ancient, business-card-sized papyrus fragment that appears to quote Jesus Christ discussing his wife is real, Harvard University announced Thursday.

    The fragment caused international uproar when it was revealed by a Harvard historian in September 2012, with prominent academics and the Vatican swiftly deeming it a forgery.

    Harvard officials said scientists both within and outside the university extensively tested the papyrus and carbon ink of the badly aged fragment, dubbed the “Gospel of Jesus’ Wife.” The document, written in Coptic, a language of ancient Egyptian Christians, is made up of eight mostly legible dark lines on the front and six barely legible faded lines on the back. The handwriting and grammar were also examined over the last year and a half to confirm its authenticity. Scientists have concluded the fragment dates back to at least the sixth to ninth centuries, and possibly as far back as the fourth century.

    This adds to the all ready found

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mary
    an intriguing glimpse into a kind of Christianity lost for almost fifteen hundred years…[it] presents a radical interpretation of Jesus’ teachings

    as a path to inner spiritual knowledge; it rejects His suffering and death as the path to eternal life; it exposes the erroneous view that Mary of Magdala was a prostitute for what it is—a piece of theological fiction; it presents the most straightforward and convincing argument in any early Christian writing for the legitimacy of women’s leadership; it offers a sharp critique of illegitimate power and a utopian vision of spiritual perfection;

    it challenges our rather romantic views about the harmony and unanimity of the first Christians; and it asks us to rethink the basis for church authority.

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  205. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    I completely agree Mikenmild.

    Frankly, I thought I was being quite reasonable in the way I was contributing to the discussion, but to be accused of lying is just pathetic.

    UglyTruth could always apologise for being a dick, but I wouldn’t hold my breath in anticipation.

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  206. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    Komata
    there were chicken and pigs in the islands of the south Pacific when Maori migrated

    The Polynesians brought with them kūmara (sweet potato) and yams, which grew well in the warmer North Island. Extensive kūmara gardens supported relatively large settlements. But even in the north, birds, fish and shellfish were important in the Māori diet. In some northern areas, large populations put pressure on resources. The Polynesian dog and rat came with the early arrivals, but the domestic pigs and chickens of the islands did not, for reasons not fully understood.

    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/history/page-1
    Not hard to image that they were eaten on the voyage.
    Also the early European spent a lot of time travelling along caostlines. Maori had limited agriculture; if they had more species they would have built up a larger population and (perhaps) had more time and inclination to search for lands around NZ. More than likely over population on the small Pacific Islands pushed them out into the Pacific in the first place. But the main difference between them and e.g early Europeans is the spread of ideas through trade and conflict.

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  207. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Believe it or not, but there is some hope for Ugly: recently he has shown an inkling of movement from his hitherto very fixed positions. The road of rationality isn’t always easy, but the path is there before him.

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  208. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    SPC

    The sale price & processes will owe far more to political expediency than good economics. Her Majesty’s Loyal (yet incompetent) Opposition would have had a field day if there were left over shares & grumpy buyers.

    And if Key & English had deferred the sale of Genesis the opposition would have claimed it as a backdown & a victory for Labour/Greens.

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  209. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yes nasska, the government really backed itself into a corner with its myopic fixation on selling the power companies. Good for those buying the shares: bad for everyone else.

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  210. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    nasska, the government brought the political problem on themselves and the consequences are now imposed on the people – low value sales.

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  211. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I notice you have a habit of accusing people who don’t agree with you of lying.

    I don’t agree with a lot of people here.

    You kept trying argue the same point when I’d made it clear that you were wrong.

    My point was that the energy argument does not depend on whether or not planes flew into buildings. Do you seriously expect me to believe that you ignoring that fact was just an innocent mistake on your part?

    I’ve no interest in arguing about irrelevancies, they don’t affect the reasoning that leads to the conclusion that “ground zero” NY was the site of actual nuclear explosions. The reasoning is pretty straightforward, nothing else can explain the isotope signature of the products of the nuclear processes that were found there.

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  212. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Mikenmild:

    Does this “inkling of movement from his hitherto very fixed positions” extend to the faked moon landing:

    UglyTruth (2,280 comments) says:
    December 4th, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    they didn’t have the technology to fake going to the moon.

    Except that they did. There are hints of Stanley Kubrick’s cinema tricks in some of the footage.

    Somehow I suspect UglyTruth still thinks there was clever trick photography behind the moon landing. Perhaps the same clever trick photography was used to fool all of us (except for the likes of UglyTruth) into thinking that those planes really did fly into those buildings.

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  213. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    UglyNazi is typical of the insane. Disagree with his insanity and he accuses all and sundry of lying, when in fact he is only lying to himself.

    “I’ve no interest in arguing about irrelevancies”

    Translation: “I have no interest in dealing with any evidence that disproves my delusions.”

    “NY was the site of actual nuclear explosions.”

    There is zero credible evidence for this delusion. There is no “reasoning” as you laughably put it. Only the paranoid delusions of a certifiable looney who thinks he does not have to have a drivers license, thinks a one man blog is a credible international tribunal, and whom a judge sent off to have a psychiatric evaluation.

    That last fact says it all.

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  214. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    SPC & Mike

    There were many of us who voted for National, despite the asset sales policy rather than because we were for it.

    It was a price we paid to keep the socialist spendthrifts away from the levers of power.

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  215. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    griffith, the Egyptian church played a major part in Christian theology – yet there was a divergence from others at Chalcedon.

    That probably raised questions for them – regarding the life of Jesus (to what extent divine and separate from other humans – in the bible account as a character across generations of human history – called the Christ of faith, but yet also accepted in one real human lifetime, a man called Yeshua or Jesus).

    The ancient Egyptian culture was very conservative in its cultural continuance, so understood the relevance of a Christ of faith across generations of time, but were aware that each generation were of mortal flesh.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copts

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  216. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Oh yes, Nostradamus, he’s still pretty much a fruitcake. But the other day he did resile somewhat from his Canadian genocide claims when he accepted that the ITCCS was not an actual international tribunal. There is some hope for him, I think. None for Reid though.

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  217. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth:

    I must have missed the apology in your 7:48pm comment. The closest you come is “Do you seriously expect me to believe that you ignoring that fact was just an innocent mistake on your part?”. That’s not lying. As I say, it’s a pathetic debating tactic, and I’ve noticed you use it quite a few times on Kiwiblog now.

    I’ve no interest in arguing about irrelevancies

    What you describe as “irrelevancies” are more accurately characterised as “inconvenient facts”. Those buildings didn’t collapse by themselves. It’s terribly inconvenient for you that planes flew into those buildings on the same day that you say something else happened.

    You have two options as far as I’m concerned:

    Option 1: Prove that I’ve lied on this thread (using conventional English dictionary definitions and not some legal mumbo-jumbo definition).
    Option 2: (as suggested in my 7:33pm comment) go fuck yourself!

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  218. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    I just don’t understand women. After the last child was
    born, she told me we had to cut back on expenses, and
    that I had to give up drinking beer. I was not a big
    drinker; maybe a a dozen stubbies on weekends.

    Anyway, I gave it up but I noticed the other day she
    came home from grocery shopping and when I looked at
    the receipt and saw $45 in makeup.

    I said, “Wait a minute. I’ve given up beer and you
    haven’t given up anything!”

    She said, “I buy that makeup for you, so I can look
    pretty for you.”

    I told her, “Hell, that’s what the beer was for!”

    And that’s when the fight started.

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  219. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    Griff.

    “it challenges our rather romantic views about the harmony and unanimity of the first Christians; and it asks us to rethink the basis for church authority.”

    Really???

    You’ve got to be joking. there was stuff from the first, second and third centuries rejected as fiction.

    You think something from the 8th. century has any credibility?

    What is it again?………..nutjob……whackhead — any other word you can think of, Grief?

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  220. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Perhaps the same clever trick photography was used to fool all of us (except for the likes of UglyTruth) into thinking that those planes really did fly into those buildings.

    Pretty difficult to get all the witnesses to shut up about there not being any impact holes in the towers though.

    http://www.aulis.com/stereoparallax.htm

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  221. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Do you seriously expect me to believe that you ignoring that fact was just an innocent mistake on your part?”

    That’s not lying.

    You’re evading the question. Evasion implies that you are trying to hide something. If you has simply made an innocent mistake you wouldn’t be evasive.
    The only alternative is intentional misrepresentation, aka lying.

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  222. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “You think something from the 8th. century has any credibility?”

    None at all. My degree studies have focused on early church history and when wanna-be nutjob amateurs like Griff spout this crap it just makes me laugh.

    I guess Gaia worshipper Griff is joining Ugy and Reid in the crackpot conspiracy club.

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  223. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Let’s play spot the contradiction:

    UglyTruth (2,926 comments) says:
    April 12th, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    Do you accept that planes flew into buildings

    Yes.

    So UglyTruth accepts (without qualification) that planes flew into buildings.

    UglyTruth (2,926 comments) says:
    April 12th, 2014 at 8:02 pm

    Perhaps the same clever trick photography was used to fool all of us (except for the likes of UglyTruth) into thinking that those planes really did fly into those buildings.

    Pretty difficult to get all the witnesses to shut up about there not being any impact holes in the towers though.

    So UglyTruth (despite accepting without qualification that planes flew into buildings) now says there were no impact holes.

    Wow! So did UglyTruth say yes when he meant no, or no when he meant yes?

    Evasion implies that you are trying to hide something. If you has simply made an innocent mistake you wouldn’t be evasive. The only alternative is intentional misrepresentation, aka lying.

    That’s not the dictionary definition of “lying” and you know it.

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  224. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    But the other day he did resile somewhat from his Canadian genocide claims when he accepted that the ITCCS was not an actual international tribunal.

    I’ve never claimed that the ITCCS was an actual international tribunal.

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  225. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    But you linked to that blog implying that you felt it was a credible source.

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  226. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    So UglyTruth (despite accepting without qualification that planes flew into buildings) now says there were no impact holes.

    And you throw a tantrum when I call you out for lying.
    LOL

    I know your kind, asshole, trying to twist the meaning into something absurd.

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  227. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    there was stuff from the first, second and third centuries rejected as fiction.

    And then deliberately suppressed by the Rome mens catholic society of papist idol worshipers.

    We are aware of the meetings

    Jesus and his simple words became all horribly confusing and needed a line of pope to interpret.

    Popes The special folk are blessed with supernatural powers on agreed terms with the bishops :wink:

    Their word can be the word of god only when ….

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  228. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    But you linked to that blog implying that you felt it was a credible source.

    That’s your assumption. If I had endorsed it I would have said something.

    Sometimes sources get parts of the story right and parts wrong. My argument related to the testimony of the witnesses IIRC.

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  229. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    Aaahh…………

    Griffith is now the authority on discerning the scriptures from the Torah through the writings of the first couple of centuries to decide what ones measured up to the canon of the Bible.

    Okay Griff, tell me – which of the books rejected, but some still held in esteem as apocrapha, and others which were total crap and therefore rejected – like the one you quote – are REALLY worthy to be included in those Divinely inspired scriptures?

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  230. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    The main thing is that a website masquerading as an international court can have very little credibility. If they lie about that what else are they lying about?

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  231. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth:

    I know your kind, asshole, trying to twist the meaning into something absurd.

    No, fuckwit, don’t try and wriggle out of this one.

    You’ve made two inconsistent statements:

    – Planes flew into buildings.
    – There were no impact holes in the buildings.

    Now, unless you can reconcile those inconsistent statements, then your argument is pretty much fucked really.

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  232. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    ….”and others which were total crap and therefore rejected – like the one you quote – are REALLY worthy to be included in those Divinely inspired scriptures?”…..

    Well, it would have kept all the crap in the one place. :)

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  233. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    There is the known unknown – the official canon of the Pharisee Jew (the Protestant Old Testament) and the official canon of the Catholic Church New Testament (note that the Catholic Church rejected the Pharisee OT canon and included extra writings – unknown unknowns to the Protestant).

    I use the word unknown here to describe a work of faith – known by being canonised.

    And of course there are post OT works that are not part of the official canon, unknown (not canonised) unknowns (works of faith).

    To those who believe the official truth about faith of a religious hierarchy, there is only the known unknown and any other work is a gnostic matter- of the wisdom of men, and therefore not of a religious group with the authority of God behind it.

    Some of the distinction was/is deliberate – a public orthodoxy and a private consideration/understanding/wisdom.

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  234. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    So Don, were the authors of the scriptures divinely inspired, or just the editors who decided which scriptures should become canonical?

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  235. freemark (580 comments) says:

    Every day it seems that many of us disprove & expose UT, Griff, Ms Dim, (Hue)Ross69 et al. But they keep coming back with more fucked up bullshit.
    NZ has a huge lefty inspired mental health problem, maybe Cu*tlifes Millions should be spent building secure loony bins for these fuckwits. Judith could look after them with all her skills.
    The rest of us could just get on with our happy & caring lives..

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  236. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    This thread shows how UglyTruth got caught out:

    UglyTruth (2,930 comments) says:
    April 4th, 2014 at 11:18 am

    Do you have any actual evidence of this?

    Historic Breaking News from The International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State (ITCCS) – Monday, March 31, 2014

    [UglyTruth: My evidence comes from the ITCCS. Thanks for playing!]

    UglyTruth (2,930 comments) says:
    April 4th, 2014 at 11:25 am

    You realise that the ‘International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State’ is actually a one-man blog, don’t you Ugly?

    Still deflecting attention from the real issue, MM?

    [UglyTruth: Oops - you got me!]

    UglyTruth (2,930 comments) says:
    April 4th, 2014 at 11:37 am

    You are just parroting the claims of one man who pretends to be an international tribunal.

    Ad hominem much, MM?

    [UglyTruth: Oh dear - can we change the subject please?]

    UglyTruth (2,930 comments) says:
    April 4th, 2014 at 11:47 am

    Ugly, if it is an ‘international court’ you will no doubt be able to provide details of the judges and prosecuting staff.

    Non sequitur.

    And you realise that examiner.com is not a real news site, don’t you?

    Ad hominem.

    [UglyTruth: No no no - let's not talk about this!]

    So, in summary, I don’t think anyone could put it better than UglyTruth did when he said “I know your kind, asshole, trying to twist the meaning into something absurd”. He’s an asshole, he twists the meaning into something absurd, and he’s exposed as a liar!

    (There, in all my time on Kiwiblog, I finally accused someone of lying!)

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  237. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    More uninformed amateur nonsense from Griff.

    “And then deliberately suppressed by the Rome mens catholic society of papist idol worshipers.”

    The Roman Catholic church did not exist at that time. It did not come into being until the split in the Church with the Eastern Churches, several hundred years later.

    And nothing was “suppressed.” Griff. The early Church fathers talked about, wrote about and referenced Gnostic material publicly and openly.

    “We are aware of the meetings”

    You obviously not aware of anything at all. It’s Dan Brown’s Davinci Code conspiracy nuttery that your spouting.

    Go to University, do a degree in Church history, then get back to us.

    Ignorance is not a virtue Griff.

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  238. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    mm.

    Are you suggesting that the scriptures were editted?

    No, they were examined, to see whether or not they measured up to the canon – the canon, as you probably know, is the greek word for rule.

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  239. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    freemark, griff is not a leftist. I am not even sure if he is a bluegreen as he has more of a focus on global warming rather than environment more generally.

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  240. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Let’s be fair to Ugly, Nostradamus. He did come back and admit the ITCCS was ‘not properly constituted

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  241. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The main thing is that a website masquerading as an international court can have very little credibility. If they lie about that what else are they lying about?

    I don’t think he’s lying, he probably just got some shonky legal advice.

    Paul Bonacci and others have talked about ritual satanic abuse involving high level politicians. The Canadian genocide involved children, so there’s the child abuse/paedophile angle as well (eg Saville et al).

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  242. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “So Don, were the authors of the scriptures divinely inspired, or just the editors who decided which scriptures should become canonical?”

    The authors, and the “editors” as you put it did not decide the canon. The canon was formed over time through general consensus and acceptance of the whole church. There was nobody sitting in a room editing anything.

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  243. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Mikenmild:

    Here’s the conundrum:

    – You asked UglyTruth for evidence to substantiate his Canadian genocide allegation.
    – UglyTruth cited the International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State.
    – UglyTruth hasn’t (so far as I’m aware) provided material from other any source (besides the ITCCS) to substantiate his Canadian genocide allegation.
    – You say that UglyTruth has conceded that the ITCCS wasn’t properly constituted (which effectively means that it’s worth diddly-squat as far as evidence goes).

    So, if we discount the ITCCS website as representing nothing more than the ramblings of a one-man blog, then what’s left to substantiate UglyTruth’s Canadian genocide allegation?

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  244. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Every day it seems that many of us disprove & expose UT

    When was the last time that happened?
    Please say “with Nosty”, I could use the humour.

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  245. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    ShawnLH.

    One minor correction – as you are aware, Acts notes that those who followed the teachings of Christ were called Christians first at Antioch – probably around 65 – 70 AD. Interestingly, only a decade or so later one of the Early Church Fathers called the Church – Catholic – because of its universal focus and growth in followers. You are correct in so far as it was not until the great schism that the Church was identified separately, although right up until the 16th.century, Christianity was known generally as Christendom throughout Europe and the East.

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  246. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    It would have been particularly difficult to include works that referenced the words of women, when the church had an all male order of rule.

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  247. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “This thread shows how UglyTruth got caught out:”

    He has been caught out like this many times. Ugly is a serial liar who’s stories constantly change when they are exposed for whackjob nuttery.

    He tried to reference the one man blog as a serious source, got exposed, and then quickly backtracked.

    He is as dishonest as the day is long.

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  248. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, I would have though that the Catholic Church existed prior to the separation from it by the Orthodox Church.

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  249. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (2,932 comments) says:
    April 12th, 2014 at 8:39 pm

    Every day it seems that many of us disprove & expose UT

    When was the last time that happened?

    That happened quite recently, actually, when you were unable to reconcile these two contradictory statements:

    – Planes flew into buildings.
    – There were no impact holes in the buildings.

    Oh dear – exposed!

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  250. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Don, more a case of the nations/kingdoms that were Christian being Christendom?

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  251. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Don,

    yes, but Catholic did not mean what we mean today by ROMAN catholic. Catholic refers to the whole universal church throughout time, which is why Anglicans recite the same creeds that call the Church Catholic.

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  252. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    UglyTruth cited the International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State.

    No I, posted material from them. A citation has a specific meaning.

    It’s any obvious strategy, discredit the source as if that made the evidence of genocide that he referenced go away.

    UglyTruth hasn’t (so far as I’m aware) provided material from other any source (besides the ITCCS) to substantiate his Canadian genocide allegation.

    I’ve mentioned a few other sources that said that genocide did actually occur.

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  253. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    I’ve mentioned a few other sources that said that genocide did actually occur.

    Proof please. My recollection is that Mikenmild demonstrated that all of these “sources” could be traced back to the ITCCS.

    Two quotes from the same thread:

    In the case of the reports you cite from examiner.com, they just go straight back to the claims on the ITCCS site.

    Ugly, that’s just another website from Kevin Arnett. Credible sources please, not one man who pretends to be an international tribunal.

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  254. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, so that is how an Anglican remains part of the Catholic Church HASP … by perceiving the Papal leadership to be expendable and superfluous.

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  255. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    That happened quite recently, actually, when you were unable to reconcile these two contradictory statements:

    – Planes flew into buildings.
    – There were no impact holes in the buildings.

    Oh dear – exposed!

    You’re such a dick, Nosty.

    Anyone can see what I meant from the context.

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  256. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Oh no, UglyTruth, that doesn’t cut the mustard at all.

    Let’s not leave it as “Anyone can see what I meant from the context”. Go on – explain the context. And then, for bonus points, try to explain how you reconcile your two contradictory statements.

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  257. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    My recollection is that Mikenmild demonstrated that all of these “sources” could be traced back to the ITCCS.

    Mikenmild did no such thing. One of the sources was a judge who worked for the state and had nothing to do with the ITCCS.

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  258. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Go on – explain the context.

    I will if anyone other than you thinks that the meaning isn’t clear.

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  259. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Alright then.

    Does anyone (besides UglyTruth) think these two statements are contradictory:

    – Planes flew into buildings.
    – There were no impact holes in the buildings.

    If you think these statements are contradictory, and the context isn’t clear, then please let UglyTruth know :)

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  260. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Your two statements are obviously contradictory, Nostradamus.

    Here’s the context.

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  261. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    Royal Stuff.

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/ik9AtJQXaHQ?rel=0

    http://screencast.com/t/aXyeXzrKRKB

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  262. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    When does the roman catholic church say Its authority come from ?

    A unbroken line of Male popes
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

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  263. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    SPC,

    “so that is how an Anglican remains part of the Catholic Church HASP … by perceiving the Papal leadership to be expendable and superfluous.”

    neither Anglicans, Lutherans, Reformed churches nor the Eastern Orthodox Churches accept Papal leadership as defined by Rome. It is less about it being expendable, and more to do with it being a corruption of ecclesiology that has led to further theological problems, such as works righteousness, purgatory and indulgences. The Reformation occurred for that reason.

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  264. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    ….”such as works righteousness, purgatory and indulgences.”….

    What a crock of shit. :)

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  265. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    A unbroken line of Male popes

    http://www.textexcavation.com/james.html

    The disciples said to Jesus: We know that you are going to depart from us. Who is to be our leader? Jesus said to them: Wherever you are, you are to go to James the just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being.

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  266. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Wiki

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Christianity

    Theological

    The theological aspect is the claim that Paul transmuted Jesus the Jewish messiah into the universal (in a wider meaning “catholic”) Savior. Pauline theology is also a term referring to the teaching and doctrines especially espoused by the apostle Paul through his writings. Mainstream Christianity relies on Paul’s writings as integral to the biblical theology of the New Testament and regards them as amplifications and explanations consistent with the teachings of Jesus and other New Testament writings. Christian scholars generally use the term expressing interest in the recovery of Christian origins and the contribution made by Paul to Christian doctrine. Others, especially non-Christian scholars, claim to see a Pauline distinction different from that found elsewhere in the New Testament, a distinction that unduly influenced later Christianity.

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  267. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    You think something from the 8th. century has any credibility?

    Ironing, deliciously warm ironing.

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  268. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “What a crock of shit.”

    Lol. Yet another example of the erudition and reason of naaska. :)

    Was it just a little too difficult to rev up the other braincell and make an actual argument naaska?

    Must be the result of your little war against science and belief in a whackjob UN conspiracy theory. :)

    Try again naaska. You know you can if your try really, really hard. :)

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  269. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The theological aspect is the claim that Paul transmuted Jesus the Jewish messiah into the universal (in a wider meaning “catholic”) Savior.

    The claim can be refuted by Paul’s membership in the Pharasaic sect, and by Paul’s propensity for lying.

    http://www.actsinjunction.info/pages/paul.html

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  270. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Possibly Paul was aware that a Jewish Messiah was a harder sell to Gentiles than a son of God …

    And a son of God was a hard sell to Jews.

    Thus the followers of a Jewish Messiah had a choice, accept he was son of God and share this faith with Gentiles or be a sect amongst Jews that would fade away as no earthly manifestation of Messiah rule eventuated.

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  271. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “The claim can be refuted”

    Except you can’t do that. And referencing your whackjob pseudo-theology does not refute anything, except your own claim to sanity.

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  272. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Except you can’t do that.

    So you’d go with the advice of a lying Pharisee, would you ShawnLH?

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  273. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    The historical record doesn’t support Paul being the only christian faith to emerge from the teaching of jesus .
    More and more evidence is merging of a fundamental schism that has been suppressed.
    By the churches capture of knowledge over the periods of dominance it had in western world dynamics.

    Lateral

    Witch suppression.
    an echo…

    Of Christian teachings by Mary Christs personal Apostle and real successor,

    As implied more and more by fragments of her teachings and gospel emergent
    from the hidden recesses of time.

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  274. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “So you’d go with the advice of a lying Pharisee, would you ShawnLH?”

    Well for a start Paul does not lie. And he left the Pharisees when he found Christ.

    What I would not do is take the advice of a lying, mentally ill conspiracy nutjob.

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  275. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “The historical record doesn’t support Paul being the only christian faith to emerge from the teaching of jesus .
    More and more evidence is merging of a fundamental schism that has been suppressed.”

    Seriously Griff, do some real academic work. Your just embarrassing yourself and placing yourself on the same crackpot level as Reid and Ugly.

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  276. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    More and more evidence is merging of a fundamental schism that has been suppressed.

    The schism was between Paul and James the Just, and when it first played out Paul ended up in front of the Sanhedrin….

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  277. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Projecting

    And attempting to use weapons effective against himself against others without considering context.

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  278. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Well for a start Paul does not lie.

    Wrong.

    Romans 3
    7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

    And he left the Pharisees when he found Christ.

    Wrong again.

    Acts 23
    6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men [and] brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

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  279. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, are you sure it was the Sanhedrin that you mean? The internal issue is covered at a meeting within the church, the Sanhedrin hosting Paul was at a later time and a different issue.

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  280. Nostalgia-NZ (5,202 comments) says:

    Anybody change anybody’s mind today?
    Well, there’s always tomorrow.
    I can hardly wait.

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  281. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, are you sure it was the Sanhedrin that you mean?

    We may have different ideas of what “first played out” meant.

    Some translations of Acts 23:6 have:

    Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin…

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  282. Nostalgia-NZ (5,202 comments) says:

    I suppose that’s a telling point UT.

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  283. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    UT, sigh.

    I’ll fix it for you. |The schism was between Paul and James the Just, and when it first played out there was a gathering of the major church figures at Jerusalem in which all factions were present, some years later Paul ended up in front of the Sanhedrin|

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  284. HC (154 comments) says:

    BOMBSHELL ALERT – RE KIM DOTCOM:

    Now we heard on the TV news about the “poverty” that Kim Dotcom suffered. We hear about toast with sugar or catchup, and about an alcoholic father, while his mother worked three jobs. Well, that my make some sob in sympathy and compare him to John Key or even poor Maori. It seems this kind of talk is catching on with some Maori, not always the brightest, like one Hone Harawira at the Mana AGM.

    What is the truth though, which I have just been passed? It is anything but, it exposes Dotcom of yet telling more LIES!

    Look up this, please:
    http://www.worldcrunch.com/tech-science/the-rise-and-fall-of-an-internet-heavyweight-mega-millionaire-kim-schmitz/c4s4546/

    “Schmitz was born in 1974 in Kiel, Germany, and grew up in northern Germany. His father piloted the luxury cruise liner “MS Deutschland.” His mother was a chef. He attended a posh boarding school, the Staatliche Internat Schloss Plön, and got his first computer when he was nine. Because gaming software cost too much for him to buy, he figured out how to make illegal copies and went into business selling them to friends for a few marks a piece.”

    Kim Schmitz, aka Kim Dotcom according to Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom

    Also to check: http://metromag.co.nz/current-affairs/the-complete-and-utter-history-of-kim-dotcom/
    http://business.highbeam.com/392705/article-1G1-16000250/fallen-hacker

    Now, I fear that Mana, if they may have voted this night to work with Dotcom, to reflect on this, to study up, read more and question their new “hero” of the “working class”. I would not blame a Che Guevara for what he stood for and did, but having some dishonest rich prick come here, and in desperation seek solidarity from leftists and Maori at the bottom, that is a “bit rich”, is it not?

    Some people are going to have a bloody bad awakening tomorrow, once the media catches on with this. Where the hell have they been by the way, they are all full of royal crap and trivial nonsense, otherwise never to be seen, when real stories wait to be reported on.

    Good night – HC

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  285. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    SPC,

    Fair enough. Arguing about when it first played out is splitting hairs IMO. The point is that it was an issue from quite early on and it didn’t go away.

    As for arguments for James the Just, we have the gospel of Thomas and Judaic law, if we interpret the followers to be the fiigurative wife of the Messiah, since James was his half-brother.

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  286. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, not entirely – though it is interesting that Paul plays the continuing Jew card when it suits (how he still observes the law as he did when a Pharisee), all while being an important Christian in developing the faith for the Gentiles.

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  287. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    Poor Ugly Truth. I’m actually embarrassed for you. Totally owned but still fighting.

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  288. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    “And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed, even in heaven.” Matthew16:18-19

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  289. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Poor Ugly Truth. I’m actually embarrassed for you. Totally owned but still fighting.

    How does not following the doctrine of a lying Pharisee make me “totally owned”?

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  290. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Any schism (and need for reconciliation) would explain this

    The disciples said to Jesus: We know that you are going to depart from us. Who is to be our leader? Jesus said to them: Wherever you are, you are to go to James the just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being.

    http://www.textexcavation.com/james.html

    The question is to how to connect the two writings and with what meaning?

    For example were the Jewish Christians not as equally dependent on grace of God as the Gentiles?

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  291. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, not entirely

    You’re saying that the schism when away? If so, when did that happen?

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  292. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    “How does not following the doctrine of a lying Pharisee make me “totally owned”?”

    Saying planes flew into the buildings but didn’t leave a hole, and being called on it makes you owned

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  293. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Did you understand the context, Zapper, or just read what Nosty had to say about it?

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  294. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “The central theme (of Matthew16:18-19) is the Messiahship of Jesus Christ. Any interpretation that takes the focus off of Jesus as Messiah is missing the point. Jesus’ questions to the disciples about the opinions of the multitudes, and then their own viewpoints, are all directed towards His own person, His own identity. When Peter speaks up and confesses that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, he is confessing the faith of all the disciples, not merely his own. He often spoke for them all. Jesus’ pronouncement of blessing upon Peter is not because of any inherent goodness in Peter but rather his being the recipient of a great blessing from the Father. To Peter has been revealed the true identity of Jesus Christ. And, of course, this revelation was given to the other Apostles as well. We can hardly think that they all sat there amazed at Peter’s words, never having thought that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God. The point of Jesus’ words is that to reveal the Son requires the enlightening work of the Father. The same theme is seen in John 6, where no man can come to the Son unless drawn by the Father. In that same context, when all the disciples turned away from Jesus, save the twelve, it was Peter who spoke for the disciples again, saying, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God” (John 6:68-69, emphasis added).

    When the Lord says, “I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it,” the focus does not change. The subject of the passage remains the identity of Christ, found in the confession of Peter. Jesus is not speaking of the identity of Peter; He is still talking about Himself and His Church. This is evident by continuing on through verse 20, where we read, “Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.” Some modern scholars, having missed the fact that the focus remains on Christ all the way through, are so puzzled by this passage that they suggest that it is not original. But such conjecture is not necessary.

    The rock of which the Lord speaks is that common confession made by all who are part of the Church: Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. 15 This is seen, I believe, in the fact that while the Lord is addressing Peter directly, he changes from direct address to the third person, “this rock,” when speaking of Peter’s confession. He does not say, “Upon you, Peter, I will build my church.” Instead, you have a clear distinction between Peter, the Πέτρος (Petros), and the demonstrative pronoun preceding πέτρα (petra), the confession of faith, on which the Church is built.

    This statement is followed by the promise to give the keys of the kingdom of heaven to Peter at some time in the future, so that what he binds on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever he looses on earth will be loosed in heaven. I emphasize this is a promise, for the verb is future in tense. 16 Yet when we see this authority given in Matthew 18:18, it is given not to Peter alone or even primarily to him. It is conferred on all the Apostles, using the exact same language 17 regarding binding and loosing. If someone wishes to say that Peter receives keys in distinction from the other Apostles, as their superior, they are forced to admit that the actual giving of these keys is never recorded for us anywhere in Scripture, a strange thing indeed for something supposedly so fundamental to the constitution of the Church.”

    http://www.reformationtheology.com/2012/05/peter_and_the_keys.php

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  295. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    UT, I meant, not entirely, in the context that the schism within the church was not the reason why Paul was later before the Sanhedrin.

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  296. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    Yes UT, I understand that you made a claim and were wrong. The planes hit the buildings, made massive holes and from that second the fate was sealed. Yet firemen and policemen still ran into the buildings. True heroism.

    Of course, the crazy among us have George Bush organising the whole thing in 9 months, even though those same people will claim Bush is stupid.

    Good times.

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  297. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    the crazy among us have George Bush organising the whole thing in 9 months

    As far as I know no-one has said that Zapper. Perhaps you’re hallucinating. It happens a lot when 911 comes up. Some people get all hysterical, for some reason.

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  298. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    ShawnLH

    Your link gives it away – reformation theology. This interpretation did not occur until the time of the reformation 1500 years after the words were spoken, and was not interpreted that way. Jesus was speaking to Peter, and did not redirect His word back to himself, otherwise it doesn’t really make sense. This is purely the protestant ‘version’ to deny the papacy – the authority of Peter and his successors were recognised by all – even the schismatic Orthodx from time to time – for the first 1500 years.

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  299. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    UT, I meant, not entirely, in the context that the schism within the church was not the reason why Paul was later before the Sanhedrin.

    Which of these points do you disagree with?

    1 The schism originated with differences between James and Paul.
    2 Paul attempted to perform the temple rite for James.
    3 The result of this attempt was that there was a riot ant he was brought before the Sanhedrin.

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  300. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yes UT, I understand that you made a claim and were wrong.

    You’re evading. I asked if you understood the context.

    What’s the bet you are unable to explain the context?

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  301. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    UT,

    1. It was less a schism more the reality that there were different cultures within the church, one being of circumcised men who were Sabbath day keeping and who kept kosher food laws – these gathered on Sabbath days, and the Gentile church that gathered on Sundays (with some Jews who formed them present for awhile).

    So James was seen as head of the Jewish faction and Paul as of the Gentile faction – played right into the hands of someone who claimed authority over both.

    The Jewish group had no future within the Jewish community. And no significance in the wider world as followers of a Jewish Messiah.

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  302. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Don,

    Being Reformation theology does not make it wrong. The specific claims of the Papacy were disputed before then, and the Orthodox churches do not recognise those claims, and argued against them before the Great Schism, so opposition to those claims was not new by the time of the Reformation.

    As the article makes clear it is not at all reasonable to assume that Christ is talking about Peter. When Jesus repeats the phrase about binding and loosing in Matt 18:18 he is addressing all the Apostles, not just Peter.

    Acknowledging the importance of the Apostles and apostolic succession does not require accepting the Roman view of Peter and the Papacy. Other churches, the Orthodox and Anglicans accept the importance of the Apostolic leadership but do not accept the interpretation of Rome, and for good reasons.

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  303. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    … and the Gentile church that gathered on Sundays (with some Jews who formed them present for awhile).

    And while some of these might have been soundly converted, there is evidence to show that the Sabbath was kept, Sunday was also observed as a kind of holiday, but with no idea of sacredness attached to it………. “And so we might trace the history down through the first centuries. The observance of Sunday, introduced as a holiday, or festival, gradually assumed more importance as a rival of GOD’S Sabbath, until, by the influx of half-converted pagans into the church, bringing with them their solar holiday, it began to supplant its divinely appointed rival…….It was not until the Council of Orleans, 538 A.D., that Sunday labour was prohibited, and thus, as Dr. Paley remarked, it became ‘an institution of the church,’ and of that church into whose hands the saints, times, and laws were to be given for 1260 years; and it may be something more than coincidence that 538 A.D. was the beginning of that period.” — D. M. Canright, Tabernacle Lectures, Lecture # Ten,pp.76-83.

    http://www.come2jesus.info/sunday.htm

    The schism is very evident in the gospel of James, where he refers to Paul as a “vain man”.

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  304. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, there is no evidence in the bible that a Gentile convert was ever asked/expected/required by Paul to keep the Sabbath day as the Jews did. The bible surprisingly never covers this issue – probably because it was the issue that was suppressed.

    As I perceive it Sabbath day keeping by Jews was a sign of their faith in a Creator God, but Gentile Christians simply by being baptised Christians had come to identify as also having Creator Godfaith.

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  305. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    UT, is 2 fact? And 3, the bible does not say James had anything to do with Paul going before the Sanhedrin – and note the long period between Paul’s conversion and the Governorship of Felix (Felix is Governor 52-60CE, after the Jerusalem gathering of the Church 50CE).

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  306. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    The future Emperor Titus snuffed out a four-year Jewish rebellion against Roman rule in A.D. 70. The rebellion had started when Roman rulers tried to place Roman gods in Jewish religious places—an action considered a desecration and an abomination. Titus’ legions destroyed most of Jerusalem and killed tens of thousands of Jews—the Arch of Titus still stands in Rome to commemorate the Roman victory.

    King Herod the Great’s Second Temple of Jerusalem was among the many structures to fall in the conflict, though its destruction may have been accidental. Today the Western, or Wailing, Wall is all that remains of this legendary site.

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  307. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    The Gospel Of Jesus’ Wife Debunked: A Critical Analysis.

    http://beginningandend.com/the-gospel-of-jesus-wife-debunked-a-critical-analysis/

    “There is no figure in antiquity with more manuscript evidence of his life and existence than Jesus Christ. Today there are still over 24,000 New Testament manuscripts and fragments of the Gospels dating anywhere from 60-500 years after the death of Jesus. These documents all quote Jesus speaking the same words and contain the same details of His life (to see some images of some of the actual manuscripts, see here). And in none of these documents is there any mention of Jesus having a wife. Yet now that one fragment has been found with the phrase “my wife” with no context, should it really suddenly refute the established, well-supported history of Jesus Christ that archeologists and historians have approved as credible? Of course not.

    This is why even King herself had to state that this discovery does nothing to disprove the established history that Jesus Christ was never married. But for the media and many people in society, all it takes is one discovery of a tiny fragment and they will put their full faith in it to forever doubt the Bible. Yet when presented with the mountains of evidence of the Bible’s validity there come questions of authenticity, whether it was changed over time, mistranslations and other challenges. There have been no such questions about the Gospel of Jesus’ Wife. This is what Beginning and End calls the Skeptic’s Fallacy, a phenomenon where any critic of the Bible is given full credibility without examining the veracity of their evidence.”

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  308. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Theology lectures starring Shawn. Thanks Shawn – save it for your fellow lunatics dude. You’ve really made the GD thread your own personal little spew hole, haven’t ya ?

    Are the sky fairies telling you to have a daily shit-flinging and circle jerk spoof-off with Reid ? Who can shoot the furthest Shawn ?

    Maybe with a bit of prayer Reid will start kissing your arse.

    Thanks again Shawn – well done buddy. Keep up the good work. I’m certainly more interested in all matters religious now. I’m a fucking convert. Quick – someone hand me a book of bollocky bullshit nonsense.

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  309. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    The evidence
    To reinforce
    Early gospels were eliminated by persons who reinterpreted the words
    The Pauline words in the bible are not teachings of jesus!

    some of The earliest known texts are from mary and her gospel

    this new fragment is as important as it adds the other documents that have been found with similar pre pauline gosbel content

    Pauline Christianity is the Christianity associated with the beliefs and doctrines espoused by Paul the Apostle through his writings. Orthodox Christianity relies heavily on these teachings and considers them to be amplifications and explanations of the teachings of Jesus.
    Others, as detailed below, perceive in Paul’s writings, teachings that
    are different from the original teachings of Jesus documented in the canonical gospels, early Acts and the rest of the New Testament, such as the Epistle of James. Proponents of the perceived, distinctive Pauline form of Christianity, include Marcion of Sinope, the 2nd century theologian and excommunicated heresiarch, who asserted that Paul was the only apostle who had rightly understood the new message of salvation as delivered by Jesus Christ.

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  310. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Thanks Shawn – save it for your fellow lunatics dude.”

    ummmmm…no. :)

    ” You’ve really made the GD thread your own personal little spew hole, haven’t ya ?”

    You mean like everyone else here?

    “daily shit-flinging and circle jerk spoof-off with Reid ?”

    I think hating people (like the Jews) is evil. Don’t you?

    Did you have an unhappy childhood? You seem very angry. That can’t be a fun way to live.

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  311. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Did you have an unhappy childhood? You seem very angry. That can’t be a fun way to live.

    Boring fuckers like you make me angry Shawn. It can’t be fun to be you mate – just from looking at your posts. Anger is a very normal and healthy emotion Shawn. I assume you’re smart enough to know that. It’s how you manage anger Shawn.

    So boring people like you Shawn – I let the anger out. That’s healthy.

    What’s your next clever little post going to say Shawn ? Make it original – all of your post at 7:20am has been done to death by every fuckwit that’s ever had a username. Come up with something new and entertaining – I dare ya.

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  312. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    You don’t seem to manage it very well then. Projecting your issues onto someone else is bad anger management.

    What’s boring to you may be interesting to others. Healthy people can just skip over posts they are not interested in, rather than engaging in a temper tantrum.

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  313. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    problem is spawn you talk a mighty load of shite.

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  314. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Back at ya Gaia worshipper. :)

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  315. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    @SPC

    Ugly Truth, there is no evidence in the bible that a Gentile convert was ever asked/expected/required by Paul to keep the Sabbath day as the Jews did.

    In Acts 15:19-21, the council of Jerusalem laid out four points from the Mosaic law for new converts, and then refers to the law of Moses itself.

    The bible surprisingly never covers this issue – probably because it was the issue that was suppressed.

    In Galatians 2:10-11 Paul refers to the council of Jerusalem, but substitutes the four points with the edict to remember the poor.

    “2 Paul attempted to perform the temple rite for James.”

    UT, is 2 fact?

    In these verses James is the speaker, the “we” refers to him and the elders.
    Acts 21
    23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
    24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

    the bible does not say James had anything to do with Paul going before the Sanhedrin

    Not explicitly. You’ve got to connect the dots to find the full meaning.

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  316. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    problem is spawn you talk a mighty load of shite.

    He’s a liar, possibly a compulsive liar.

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  317. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Thing is Shawn – I don’t give a flying fuck about being ‘healthy’ or anything else according to your way of thinking. So get fucked dickhead.

    Shawn – ignoring boring little retards is not healthy. It only encourages them. You’re allowed to post boring fucktarded crap – and I’m allowed to call it boring fucktarded crap. And if you don’t like it – feel free to ignore my posts. You see how that works ?

    I love these ‘healthy’ self-fuck people – they’re so interesting…..

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