General Debate 1 April 2014

April 1st, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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187 Responses to “General Debate 1 April 2014”

  1. Harriet (5,145 comments) says:

    “……Second, the primary purpose of the flood story — like other stories in the Bible, such as the creation story — is to convey enduring wisdom and moral insight, not geology or science. And the lessons of the flood story influenced civilization for millennia…..”

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_meet_noah_the_original_eco_loon_and_his_green_god/

    http://www.dennisprager.com/noah-one-moral-stories-ever-told/

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  2. Left Right and Centre (2,997 comments) says:

    Penny Bright – $29 000 in rates arrears !!

    Whoa…..

    29K ? Time to make her day !!

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  3. Lance (2,718 comments) says:

    It’s OK
    I am sure the Black caps reported score was just a wee April fools prank.

    In reality they must have done much better

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  4. redqueen (583 comments) says:

    I really wish scientists would stick to, oh, say, science?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11229788

    I seriously doubt human extinction is on the cards any time soon. Now, it’s the Herald, so OTT headlines are to be expected…but REALLY? These doomsayers shouldn’t be getting all the press coverage.

    Where are the ‘balancing’ articles showing how far humanity has come and how much cool stuff is either in current production, subject to R&D, or on the drawing board?

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  5. wreck1080 (3,972 comments) says:

    Just about every city has been proclaimed as the next tech hub.

    The double kiss of death is on this one because it is a council person pushing this one.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9888233/IT-could-see-Techapuna-grow

    So, takapuna is the latest city to get the IT hub tag.

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  6. Sofia (869 comments) says:

    Geoff Robinson this morning hosts his final Morning Report after almost four decades with Radio New Zealand. The veteran broadcaster’s exit, however, has been clouded by revelations that any retirement from the public eye may be very brief indeed, with insiders tipping an imminent announcement that he is to join the nebulous Internet Party, as its star parliamentary candidate, and very likely a potential leader.
    – Listener
    _____________________

    MARKET ANNOUNCEMENT
    APN TO ACQUIRE 100% OF WHALE OIL BEEF HOOKED BLOG ASSETS
    – APN to move to full ownership of WOBH for $4.273 million
    – Purchase price represents an a random number dreamed up by all concerned.
    – APN confident in new media as a growth medium and in the ability of WOBH to continue increasing market share
    – Majority of APN’s earnings post-Acquisition expected to be in growth businesses (radio, outdoor and digital)
    – Exclusive 10 year agreement with WOBH and editor Cam Slater secured to operate WOBH and broadcast a new blog radio show via the iHeartRadio digital radio platform in New Zealand
    – APN appoints Cam Slater as New Media Editor

    No April 1 foolery on kiwiblog? :-(

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  7. duggledog (1,589 comments) says:

    So I said to the Mrs last night as we watched the news about this rock ape smashing over the tourists on the West Coast ‘wait till we find out his prior convictions’

    The POS was on parole

    NZ – criminal’s paradise

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  8. dog_eat_dog (790 comments) says:

    What’s the moral in the story of Noah – listen to the voices in your head, do whatever they say, and remember a stopped clock is right twice a day?

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  9. Elaycee (4,410 comments) says:

    @Sofia – Appears you missed DPF’s post at 7.00am: Taxpayers’ Union welcomes $158,000 paid back ;)

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  10. peterwn (3,312 comments) says:

    Left Right and Centre

    I bet Penny is quietly arranging to pay the rates arrears (even arranging a loan if need be), otherwise she would be facing very costly martyrdom.

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  11. kowtow (8,784 comments) says:

    Franz Josef attack.

    Parolee arrested.

    Are parole boards ever held accountable?

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  12. Sofia (869 comments) says:

    @Sofia – Appears you missed DPF’s post at 7.00am: Taxpayers’ Union welcomes $158,000 paid back :-)

    Oh, bugger – sorry, I did miss it. Nice one! But then anything that pisses off Winston is.
    Pity however that the WhaleOil take over is not true.
    It would have stuck it up a certain judge.
    Maybe if the post is still there after lunchtime …
    As someone has commented over there: “I am deeply disappointed this jest is not a true word spoken”

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  13. OneTrack (3,235 comments) says:

    “Are parole boards ever held accountable?”

    No. But he is a good boy really.

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  14. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    Quite a good point made by Matthias Chang who served as political secretary and adviser to former Prime Minister Dr. Mahathir Mohamad – out of all countries the US is the most likely to have MH370 covered on satellite given with its China containment strategy it has a strategic interest in the area concerned. Which means it is most likely to know precisely what happened to it. But it’s not saying, the article suggests, because it wants to know what China’s coverage capabilities are.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/disappearance-of-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh-370-the-trillion-question-to-the-u-s-and-its-intelligence-services/5375780

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  15. minus (223 comments) says:

    Internet Partial Party –

    OK, I fully admit to a little computer illiteracy and haven’t got the most up to date computer or copy of Flash or something, so The Internet Party on one software package is four mid-screen purple dots that do nothing – maybe buffering for eternity?

    The other package displays the whole shemozzle – Key character meets Obama, played by Brendon Horan [have a look!] and Dotcom and bunker and so on.

    The Internet Party will support skills development and bridge the digital divide to help everyone connect to and benefit from the Internet.

    … except older people with not so brand-new computers.
    This is the first website I’ve struck which will not load without a note to say why.
    Does Hone need to know this before he goes too far on behalf of ALL his people?
    Half-Pie Ngati Wai Phai ?

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  16. flipper (4,230 comments) says:

    More bad news for cunners and his nutty tax dodger friend…..

    The “heartless” National/Key/English administration today increased net superannuation payments by 2.82%

    And other Soc Welfare benefit payments have also increased.

    Sadly for cunners, this is NOT an April 1 fools joke.

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  17. flipper (4,230 comments) says:

    OneTrack (1,881 comments) says:

    April 1st, 2014 at 8:26 am

    “Are parole boards ever held accountable?”

    No. But he is a good boy really
    *******

    Actually, Yes.

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  18. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Manolo (12,536 comments) says:
    April 1st, 2014 at 6:34 am

    Seventh heaven for Griff: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/global-warming-dials-our-risks-un-report-says

    If the world doesn’t cut pollution of heat-trapping gases, the already noticeable harms of global warming could spiral “out of control,” the head of a United Nations scientific panel warned Monday.

    And he’s not alone. The Obama White House says it is taking this new report as a call for action, with Secretary of State John Kerry saying “the costs of inaction are catastrophic.”

    Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that issued the 32-volume, 2,610-page report here early Monday, told The Associated Press: “it is a call for action.” Without reductions in emissions, he said, impacts from warming “could get out of control.”

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  19. iMP (2,422 comments) says:

    Gee, interesting to see the Conservatives at 3% in Danyl McLauchlan’s bias-adjusted Poll of Polls.

    But lets keep talking about ACT (0.00%) and the Internet Party (0.04%).

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  20. OneTrack (3,235 comments) says:

    griff – They said it was already out of control and too late.

    Changed their tune? Again? Never.

    Let me know when the models predict reality. Let me know when some real science is involved and not a consensus vote.

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  21. Brian Smaller (4,026 comments) says:

    The flood story appears in various forms in the myths and legends in most ancient cultures in the Middle East going back to the Sumerians…or before. I remember reading a book that hypothesised that the flooding of the Black Sea basin when the Med finally broke through may have been the source of the deluge stories in local cultures.

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  22. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Are parole boards ever held accountable?

    In the long run.

    Judex damnatur cum nocens absolvitur. The judge is condemned when the guilty are acquitted.

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  23. Pete George (23,687 comments) says:

    Gee, interesting to see the Conservatives at 3% in Danyl McLauchlan’s bias-adjusted Poll of Polls.

    But lets keep talking about ACT (0.00%) and the Internet Party (0.04%).

    No, the CP is quoted as on 2.9% and ACT on 0.5%.

    The Internet Party aren’t mentioned at all at Dim-Post but were at 0.4% on the 3 News/Reid Research poll, not 0.04%.

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  24. Manolo (14,080 comments) says:

    News the socialists don’t want to hear: ACC levies down, benefits and super up
    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8822966/acc-levies-down-benefits-and-super-up

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  25. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Let me know when the models predict reality. Let me know when some real science is involved and not a consensus vote.

    :lol:

    scientists are like cats you can not heard them. They “vote” by citing prior research in their output.

    They are agreeing/ have come to a consensus because they find the research behind AGW convincing

    co2 is effecting the world climates and it is due to humanity that co2 is rising.

    When the worlds scientific bodies all start howling the same tune don’t you think you should take note?

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  26. dirty harry (517 comments) says:

    Another mongrel scumbag slapped with wet bus tickets in the past. This bastard should have the book thrown at him , preventive detention never to be released. Rot in hell loser.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9889045/Terror-spree-suspect-on-parole

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  27. Manolo (14,080 comments) says:

    Miss Dim is the most corrupt woman who has ever polluted the otherwise decent Kiwiblog.
    Pay your rates, you left-wing nutter!

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  28. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    NOVO-OGARYOVO, March 19. /ITAR-TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin has instructed Labour and Social Protection Minister Maksim Topilin to raise pensions of Crimea’s residents to the Russian level.

    “All citizens of Russia should be put in equal conditions,” he said on Wednesday.

    At the moment, Crimea’s pensions are two times lower. There are 677,000 pensioners in Crimea and Sevastopol.

    http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/724359

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  29. flipper (4,230 comments) says:

    Skeptics romp in 6 Bloggies categories

    The Bloggies awards were so enthused that skeptics dominated the Science and Tech category that they removed the category.

    Joanne Nova says “ …..
    So I suggested skeptical readers pick different categories, and lo and behold today skeptics win in six different areas.
    Thousands of readers will not go away.
    I’d like to thank especially, the Mainstream Media, without which I would have hardly any traffic. I dedicate this win today to the science journalists in the ABC, BBC, CBC, CBS or CNN, and to Roger Harrabin, Andy Revkin and George Monbiot — all of whom make it so easy for skeptical blogs to flourish. Their promotion of logical fallacies, one-sided reports, and rank name-calling paves the way, en masse for hundreds of thousands of disappointed, thoughtful, inquisitive readers to hunt online for something better.
    If science journalists were good scientists or good journalists skeptical blogs would not be one of the largest single categories on the world wide web. (Judging from the other winners, the mainstream media is also lacking in Moms).”
    Best European Weblog, Winner: Tallbloke’s Talkshop
    Best Weblog About Politics, Winner: The Global Warming Policy Foundation
    Best Topical Weblog ,Winner: Climate Audit
    Best Group or Community Weblog, Winner: Watts Up With That?
    Lifetime Achievement, Winner: JoNova
    Weblog of the Year, Winner: Watts Up With That?
    Congratulations to Best Canadian Weblog Winner: Small Dead Animals
    “Congrats” to Michael Mann who wins “Climate Duplicitist of the Year” at WattsUp.
    “Thank you to skeptical readers who responded to the call for alternate-category nominations and who took the time to vote. Congratulations to Steve McIntyre, Anthony Watts, Roger Tallbloke Tattersall, and Benny Peiser.
    “A special note of thanks to the dedicated volunteers who help moderate; this would not be the site it is, without their help. And of course, thanks to all the commenters here who entertain and inform us, or just ask very good questions which can sometimes be the most useful thing of all.”

    But where are KB and WOHB ???????

    Oh…. R Pachauri, representing the IPCC scam team, won the rail road engineers award. :-)

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  30. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    Putin has instructed Labour and Social Protection Minister Maksim Topilin to raise pensions of Crimea’s residents to the Russian level

    He just keeps making the West look like a clumsy incompetent elephant with a bad temper, doesn’t he.

    Wonder how the West MSM will spin this. Bribes, probably.

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  31. dirty harry (517 comments) says:

    Apparently every ” taonga ” has its price.

    Pity the poor smuck who buys it.. 50 years time the natives will be banging on your door demanding it back with interest

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9888893/Maori-treasure-withdrawn-from-Te-Papa-may-be-sold

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  32. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Miss Dim is the most corrupt woman who has ever polluted the otherwise decent Kiwiblog.

    If ratepayers had any backbone they would stop bending over for the local empires.

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  33. Simon (763 comments) says:

    griffith the shut in. Yep pay tax to the State to control the weather. Or else.

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  34. cha (4,084 comments) says:

    Oh…. R Pachauri, representing the IPCC scam team, won the rail road engineers award.

    And the authors of the Pentagon’s 2014 Quadrennial Review are in on the scam too – say it ain’t so Joe.
    //

    http://climateandsecurity.org/2014/03/04/climate-change-and-national-security-in-the-2014-quadrennial-defense-review/

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  35. lilman (968 comments) says:

    Sadly we are going to pay for Mr Loves piece of shitty wood,I would throw the bloody thing into the local street and say come and get it.
    Maori will ask main stream NZ to pay and save this great example of a culture that was formed by eating its foes and sitting on its arse.
    Things are hereditary it seems.

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  36. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Joanne Nova :lol:

    kiddy tv presenter

    Watts Up With That

    failed cable tv weather man

    Tall boy.

    pusdo for an unknown

    climate audit.

    Still fighting a battle over the hocky stick that they lost years ago. FFS we have expnded on that research by decades.

    flippy

    your post shows the alt science outlets that wingnuts worship

    Try finding out about science by going to an actual scientific organisation

    like. The royal society of science
    http://royalsociety.org/policy/climate-change/

    The national academy
    http://www.nasonline.org/

    The wold meteorology organisation
    http://www.wmo.int/pages/index_en.html

    and save your self all those other web site your crap comes from
    The Heartland Institute – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    en.wikipedia.org › wiki‎
    Jump to Funding – Funding[edit]. The Heartland Institute does not disclose its funding sources. According to its brochures, Heartland receives money from …
    ‎History and leadership – ‎Positions – ‎Publications – ‎Funding
    Heartland Institute – SourceWatch
    http://www.sourcewatch.org › index.php‎
    Jump to Diverse funding base, reports Heartland – According to Heartland,[6]. “The following facts show that Heartland is not a “front group”: .
    The Heartland Institute | DeSmogBlog
    http://www.desmogblog.com › heartland-institute‎
    The Heartland Institute has received at least $676,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998 but no longer discloses its funding sources. In the 1990s, Heartland Institute …
    The Heartland Institute – Greenpeace
    http://www.greenpeace.org › usa › global-warming-and-energy › polluterwatch‎
    Sep 10, 2013 – The Heartland Institute is a Chicago-based “free market” think tank and … These documents make it clear how Heartland funding increased …
    Leak exposes how Heartland Institute works to undermine climate …
    http://www.theguardian.com › Environment › Climate change scepticism‎
    Feb 14, 2012 – Libertarian thinktank keeps prominent sceptics on its payroll and relies on millions in funding from carbon industry, papers suggest.
    Diageo to end funding of Heartland Institute after climate change …
    http://www.theguardian.com › Environment › Climate change scepticism‎
    May 6, 2012 – Diageo, one of the world’s largest drinks companies, has announced it will no longer fund the Heartland Institute, a rightwing US thinktank …
    Meet The Climate Denial Machine | Blog | Media Matters for America
    mediamatters.org › blog › 2012/11/28‎
    Nov 28, 2012 – The Economist has called the libertarian Heartland Institute “the world’s most … Heartland also receives funding from some corporations with a …
    Heartland Institute and its NIPCC report fail the credibility test …
    http://www.climatesciencewatch.org › 2013/09/09‎
    Sep 9, 2013 – Heartland’s funding over the past decade has included thousands of dollars directly from ExxonMobil and the American Petroleum Institute, but …
    EXPOSED: 19 Corporations Funding Heartland Institute …
    thinkprogress.org › climate › 2012/02/17‎
    by Brad Johnson – in 2,840 Google+ circles
    Feb 17, 2012 – One in a series of posts about the Heartland Institute’s inner workings, from internal documents acquired by ThinkProgress Green. Heartland …
    Puppets on a string: US think tank funds NZ sceptics – Hot Topic
    hot-topic.co.nz › puppets-on-a-string-us-think-tank-funds-nz-sceptics‎
    Jan 24, 2012 – The Heartland Institute, the US organisation that plays a key role in organised climate denial, has di

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  37. peterwn (3,312 comments) says:

    dirty harry – the poor smuck who will buy it will be the taxpayer.

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  38. kowtow (8,784 comments) says:

    dirty harry

    Talking of schmucks the Dunedin ratepayer has been done over,again,by council spending our money on feel good bullshit.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/297047/shackle-buy-better-court-cull

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  39. kowtow (8,784 comments) says:

    flapper

    parole boards are held accountable?

    Examples would be good.

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  40. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Simon (603 comments) says:
    April 1st, 2014 at 9:19 am

    griffith the shut in. Yep pay tax to the State to control the weather. Or else.

    This is what the twentieth time? you have posted this.

    Have a new thought Simon the old one has gone a little moldy :lol:

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  41. flipper (4,230 comments) says:

    kow[tow] (6,614 comments) says:

    April 1st, 2014 at 9:40 am
    ***********

    Ever heard of BORA or JR bovine one?

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  42. Viking2 (11,574 comments) says:

    Another Govt. nice to do botchup.

    A $10 billion national seismic building upgrade will save only seven lives during almost a century yet destroy much of the country’s heritage, an economist says.

    Ian Harrison of Wellington’s Tailrisk Economics will tomorrow release his 100-page report Error Prone Bureaucracy, telling how the new earthquake strengthening policy could cost $3 billion in Auckland alone but take 4000 years to save a single life.

    Yet the new regime would negatively affect tens of thousands of people and result in many older buildings throughout cities’ suburbs and towns being demolished, all for very little gain.
    Compliance with the minimum standard could cost over $3 billion in Auckland but is expected to take 4000 years to save a single life. Three to eight Aucklanders are expected to die as a result of financial stress caused by the policy.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11229826

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  43. stephieboy (3,413 comments) says:

    Bad news for our whale meat lovers and whale / dolphin protection haters,

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/international-court-of-justice-upholds-australias-bid-to-ban-japanese-whaling-in-antarctica-20140331-35ude.html

    I suspect that both gravitate towards ACT or the CONservative party.!

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  44. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    v2
    Industry capture of process

    The whole idea is to protect insurance profits.

    At the cost to all of us in extreme compliance costs for little real gain in safety.

    FFS earthquake strengthening in regions that have little seismic activity. :lol:

    More chance for a truly destructive volcano eruption in most of north nz than a significant earthquake.

    Should we be required to build roofs capable of withstanding tonnes of ash on such odds?

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  45. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    parole boards are held accountable?

    What should happen is the people they let out are required to live next door to them and when there is no more room the people they let out have to live next door to the parole board’s families.

    Same with judges who let people out on bail.

    And when that all runs out politicians are next in line, starting with the Justice Minister.

    Wouldn’t that focus their minds.

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  46. wreck1080 (3,972 comments) says:

    “IMF says kiwi dollar overvalued”

    On what basis can the IMF make such a statement? The NZD is traded on an open market and you have willing buyers/sellers at the current levels.

    This is like saying house prices in Auckland are overvalued. Yet, auck house prices continue to climb because the supply is restricted .

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  47. ex-golfer (167 comments) says:

    @flipper
    NZ Super and all benefit payments are adjusted on 1 April every year in line with the CPI
    Todays increases are nothing special.

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  48. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    In contrast to the latest IPCC report of doom, the NIPCC (the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change, made of up real scientists, not politically motivated scaremongers) have released their own report.

    They rebut the report on a point-by-point basis –

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/03/31/the-ipccs-latest-report-deliberately-excludes-and-misrepresents-important-climate-science/2/

    About the NIPCC –

    How credible are the NIPCC reports?  Endorsements by prominent scientists, reviews, and citations in peer-reviewed journals appear at the Web site mentioned above. NIPCC reports are produced by scores of scientists from around the world (some 20 countries so far), cite thousands of peer-reviewed studies, and are themselves peer-reviewed. In June 2013, a division of the Chinese Academy of Sciences published a Chinese translation and condensed edition of the 2009 and 2011 volumes.

    We know the authors of the IPCC’s reports have financial conflicts of interest, since the government bureaucracies that select them and the UN that oversees and edits the final reports stand to profit from public alarm over the possibility that global warming will be harmful. The authors of the NIPCC series have no such conflicts. The series is funded by three private family foundations without any financial interest in the outcome of the global warming debate. The publisher, The Heartland Institute, neither solicits nor receives any government or corporation funding for the Climate Change Reconsidered series. (It does receive some corporate funding for its other research and educational programs.)

    So is man-made global warming a crisis? Don’t just wonder about it, understand it yourself. Read one or a few chapters of one of the NIPCC reports, and ask if what you read is logical, factual, and relevant to the debate. See if the UN or its many apologists take into account the science and evidence NIPCC summarizes, and then decide whether its predictions of “of death, injury, and disrupted livelihoods” is science or fiction.

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  49. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    ‘The publisher, The Heartland Institute…’
    Say no more.

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  50. cha (4,084 comments) says:

    So Fletch, does the Pentagon have it all wrong too?.

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  51. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    :lol:

    read all about the heartland farce in china.
    http://www.skepticalscience.com/heartland-cas-fantasy.html

    Similarly, when asked about the NIPCC report translation and Heartland claims, the Chinese Academy of Science responded,

    “…this is only a book cooperation between the Lanzhou Branch of the National Science Library and Heartland Institute, and is limited only to copy right trading, with no academic research work involved.

    A few CAS experts participated in the translation of the book, aiming to demonstrate different voices in the global scientific field to the Chinese science community, however, that does not mean that we CAS joined the research or agree with their view point; neither does it mean that CAS will decide “promote” the climate “skeptic” view or group.”

    In fact, the Chinese Academy of Sciences has signed onto this joint statement, in which they endorse the IPCC consensus position on human-caused global warming and note,

    “Responding to climate change requires both mitigation and adaptation to achieve a transition to a low carbon society and our global sustainability objectives.”

    Clearly the Chinese Academy of Sciences and the country’s government have not bought into the Heartland NIPCC contrarianism. In fact, China has recently been taking a leading role in addressing climate change. They’re testing out a carbon cap and trade system, are trying to ensure that their coal consumption has peaked, and have reached an agreement with the USA to reduce hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) emissions, which are potent greenhouse gases. CO2 emissions per unit of electricity generation in China have been falling steadily as they diversify towards more low-carbon energy sources. Does this sound like a country that denies that human greenhouse gas emissions are causing climate change, as Heartland’s Joe Bast suggests?

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  52. flipper (4,230 comments) says:

    ex-golfer (128 comments) says:

    April 1st, 2014 at 10:40 am

    *****

    I know….,but it does not fit with cunners story line to mention it.
    …and.. Nat Super is not inflation adjusted. It is wage related…. and this was, I suspect, more than CPI.
    :-)

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  53. Weihana (4,607 comments) says:

    Reid (15,275 comments) says:
    April 1st, 2014 at 10:34 am

    parole boards are held accountable?

    What should happen is the people they let out are required to live next door to them and when there is no more room the people they let out have to live next door to the parole board’s families.

    Same with judges who let people out on bail.

    And when that all runs out politicians are next in line, starting with the Justice Minister.

    Wouldn’t that focus their minds.

    It’s interesting how the public, in their glorious state of perfection, so often decrys the politicians they elect and bemoans the fact that public officials lack clairvoyance.


    The man at the centre of an inquiry into an attack on two foreign hitchhikers and the killing of a woman had only been out of prison for six months and was still on parole.

    At a hearing a month earlier, the Parole Board ruled the man’s risk to the community could be ”adequately mitigated” over the remaining nine months of his sentence.

    So in any case he would have been freed three months from now. Yep, all the parole boards fault.. or the Minister’s fault. Shit doesn’t just happen. Some public official must be to blame.

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  54. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Precisely Weihana. It’s probably safer to release offenders on parole, where they are at least subject to some supervision, than have then serve the full sentence and be released unsupervised. The Parole Board’s task is a difficult one, and it is impossible to get every decision right or be sure that every parolee does not reoffend.

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  55. cha (4,084 comments) says:

    Nat Super is not inflation adjusted.

    Here, LMGTFY.

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  56. flipper (4,230 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,659 comments) says:

    April 1st, 2014 at 10:41 am

    In contrast to the latest IPCC report of doom,
    ******

    Good comment…thanks on behalf of all sane KB commenters.

    There is only one thing keeping rail road engineer Pachauri in his overpaid, tax free job – Obama’s reliance upon the left wing of his party to push the IPCC bullshit. (The keystone pipeline project, for example, would add just 2000 odd miles to a US national network of pipes carrying hazardous substances of.. YES, 170,000+miles.)

    The despots at the IPCC are ever more shrill in their claims…. and what we now have, as Peter Mahon J. (dec’d) famously said, is “an orchestrated litany of lies”, all regurgitated by the likes of KB’s resident serial liar …. griffin, aka griff or whatever it calls itself today.

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  57. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Flipper
    your idea that the worlds scientists are in a league to defraud the world is wing nuts.

    Obama was not even om the horizon when the ipcc was created in 1988.

    The total staff of the IPCC is 12 paid employees. :lol: It examines science. thousands of scientific papers with the voluntary effort of thousands of scientists.
    http://www.ipcc.ch/

    The national academy of science usa.
    http://www.nasonline.org/

    The Royal Society of Science uk.
    https://royalsociety.org/policy/projects/climate-evidence-causes/

    the AAAS.
    http://www.aaas.org/news/aaas-kicks-initiative-recognize-climate-change-risks

    The world meteorology organisation
    http://www.wmo.int/pages/index_en.html

    The New Zealand royal society of science
    http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/

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  58. infused (660 comments) says:

    David Cunliffe on newstalk was horrid. He didn’t actually answer anything. Won’t talk about Greens, Kim or anything.

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  59. James Stephenson (2,233 comments) says:

    He didn’t actually answer anything.

    Someone’s been having meedja training…it’s probably an improvement on the yeah-nah, backtracking and u-turning from a Labour point of view.

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  60. Fletch (6,497 comments) says:

    griff, the IPCC is populated by quacks and written by young people without qualifications or by those with an agenda.

    The former president of a Commission on Sea Level Change, Nils-Axel Mörner, also addressed the House of Lords committee. Mörner, who has 40 years experience in his field, called attention to the disparity between what genuine sea level specialists think and what those who write IPCC reports believe. Those in the second group, he says, lack hands-on expertise.

    Instead, they attempt to predict the future via mathematical formulas that have been fed into computers (computer modeling). Mörner told the House of Lords that, between 1999 and 2003, genuine sea level experts held five international meetings to discuss the available real-world evidence. They concluded that sea levels are unlikely to increase by more than 10 cm (4 inches) by the year 2100.

    Mörner says the claim that sea levels are rising quickly – or that entire island nations are in imminent danger of drowning – are simply not true. Dr. Gray, the hurricane specialist, resides in America. Dr. Reiter, the malaria expert, works at the Pasteur Institute in Paris. Dr. Mörner is the former head of a geodynamics unit at the University of Stockholm, in Sweden. Each of them possesses highly specialized knowledge. Each of them is a seasoned professional with long experience in his field. They are, in other words, exactly the kind of people you’d expect to find at the heart of an organization comprised of world-class scientists examining one of the planet’s most important questions. But they are all IPCC outsiders. This suggests the IPCC defines top scientists and best experts differently than do most of us.

    ——————-

    So if malaria experts aren’t writing the section on malaria in the Climate Bible and world-renowned sea level experts aren’t writing the section on sea levels, who is writing IPCC reports? One group consists of graduate students. Typically these are individuals in their twenties.

    Their experience of the world is neither broad nor deep. If they were merely performing administrative tasks that would be one thing. But the IPCC has long relied on their expert judgment. Richard Klein, now a Dutch geography professor, is a classic example.

    In 1992 Klein turned 23, completed a Masters degree, and worked as a Greenpeace campaigner. Two years later, at the tender age of 25, he found himself serving as an IPCC lead author. (The IPCC has three classes of writers. Coordinating lead authors are in charge of an entire chapter and are therefore the most senior in rank. Each chapter usually has two. Lead authors are expected to write a significant amount of text. Their numbers vary from a handful to several dozen. Contributing authors provide supplemental knowledge.

    They typically don’t participate in the meetings attended by the other two kinds of authors, but are asked to write briefly about a narrow, specific topic. A chapter may have no contributing authors or as many as 20 of them.) Klein’s online biography tells us that, since 1994, he has been a lead author for six IPCC reports. On three of those occasions, beginning in 1997, he served as a coordinating lead author. This means that Klein was promoted to the IPCC’s most senior author role at age 28 – six years prior to the 2003 completion of his PhD. Neither his youth nor his thin academic credentials prevented the IPCC from regarding him as one of the world’s top experts. [footnote 4-1] Nor is he an isolated case.

    Laurens Bouwer is currently employed by an environmental studies institute at the VU University Amsterdam. In 1999-2000, he served as an IPCC lead author before earning his Masters in 2001. How can a young man without even a Masters degree become an IPCC lead author? Good question. Nor is it the only one. Bouwer’s expertise is in climate change and water resources. Yet the chapter for which he first served as a lead author was titled Insurance and Other Financial Services. It turns out that, during part of 2000, Bouwer was a trainee at Munich Reinsurance Company. This means the IPCC chose as a lead author someone who a) was a trainee, b) lacked a Masters degree, and c) was still a full decade away from receiving his 2010 PhD. Who else falls into this category?

    Step forward Lisa Alexander. As recently as 2008, this woman was a research assistant at Australia’s Monash University. After earning her PhD in 2009, she was hired by another Aussie university – which noted in its announcement that she had already “played a key role” in both the 2001 and 2007 editions of the Climate Bible. (She was a contributing author the first time, and a lead author the second.) The IPCC selected its 2001 authors during 1999. This means its leadership decided that Alexander was a world-class expert 10 years before she, too, had earned her doctorate.

    Sari Kovats, currently a lecturer at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, is an even more egregious example. She didn’t earn her PhD until 2010. Yet back in 1994 – 16 years prior to that event and three years before her first academic paper was published – Kovats was one of only 21 people in the entire world selected to work on the first IPCC chapter that examined how climate change might affect human health. In total, Kovats has been an IPCC lead author twice and a contributing author once – all long before she’d completed her PhD.

    One of Kovats’ health chapter colleagues was an American named Jonathan Patz. He earned earned a Masters degree in Public Health in 1992 and had his first academic paper published in late 1995. Yet in 1994 the IPCC judged his credentials so impressive he was appointed one of its lead Given the involvement of both Kovats and Patz, Paul Reiter’s description of the IPCC’s 1995 health chapter as amateurish starts to make sense. Rather than recruiting real experts like Reiter the IPCC enlisted young, inexperienced, non-experts instead. It has been doing so since the mid-1990s. Yet in 2011 newspapers still report that the IPCC is a collection of “the world’s leading scientists.”

    Laframboise, Donna (2011-10-09). The Delinquent Teenager Who Was Mistaken for the World’s Top Climate Expert (pp. 10-12). Ivy Avenue Press. Kindle Edition.

    http://www.amazon.com/Delinquent-Teenager-Mistaken-Climate-ebook/dp/B005UEVB8Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1335337616&sr=8-2

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  61. dirty harry (517 comments) says:

    “and it is impossible to get every decision right or be sure that every parolee does not reoffend.”

    Right , so if that’s the case and there is doubt about the risk of reoffending, then the scum bag stays behind bars and completes its full sentence. Parole should be abolished anyway..its a complete crock of shit. You do the crime you do ALL the time.
    We are soft on crims , they know it and they play the system. Shitheads like this latest prick need the noose. Feral scum.

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  62. mandk (1,020 comments) says:

    cha: “So Fletch, does the Pentagon have it all wrong too?.”

    The Pentagon is the HQ of the US military. And, as everyone knows, “military intelligence” is the archetypal oxymoron.

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  63. cha (4,084 comments) says:

    Oh dear Fletch, reduced to trotting out Donna Laframboise whose greatest claim to fame is a degree in – drum roll please – womens studies.

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  64. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    :lol:

    So are all national Scientific bodies according to you. The IPCC is supported by

    The national academy of science usa.
    http://www.nasonline.org/

    The Royal Society of Science uk.
    https://royalsociety.org/policy/projects/climate-evidence-causes/

    the AAAS.
    http://www.aaas.org/news/aaas-kicks-initiative-recognize-climate-change-risks

    The world meteorology organisation
    http://www.wmo.int/pages/index_en.html

    The New Zealand royal society of science
    http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/

    It is your denial that allows you to ignore scientific reality and go with the obviously biased information provided and paid for by the oil and coal industrys to preserve their profits . Think of that the next time the price of gas goes up and costs you in the pocket.

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  65. mandk (1,020 comments) says:

    @ griffith,

    It’s not that scientists are trying to defraud the world, it’s just that science is not immune to fashionable thinking.

    What happened to al the scientist who were telling us in the 1960’s that we were on the verge of plunging into a new ice age?

    And what happened to the scientists who were telling us around the same time that the world couldn’t feed 5 billion people?

    And what about the scientists who were warning that we would run out of oil by 2000?

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  66. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    “Bad news for our whale meat lovers and whale / dolphin protection haters,

    I suspect that both gravitate towards ACT or the CONservative party.!”

    And the award for dumbass bigot comment for the day goes to……………stephieboy! :)

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  67. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    CLIMATE CHANGE: THE MUSICAL

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/31/climate-change-to-make-it-off-broadway-debut-thanks-to-national-science/

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  68. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    :lol:

    taking shit buddy

    try finding all the science predicting global cooling from the sixties.
    you will be hard pressed to find any outside of msm pushing sensational head lines..

    fracking is mopping up the residues. The energy imput to tap non conventual sources of hydro carbon based energy is higher It is costing steadily more energy/money to extract useable energy as we continue to tap the declining resources.

    Since 1981 is a long time to be caught in a fashion warp don’t you think.

    http://www.universetoday.com/94468/1981-climate-change-predictions-were-eerily-accurate/

    A paper published in the journal Science in August 1981 made several projections regarding future climate change and anthropogenic global warming based on manmade CO2 emissions. As it turns out, the authors’ projections have proven to be rather accurate — and their future is now our present.

    The paper, written by a team of atmospheric physicists led by the now-controversial James Hansen at NASA’s Institute for Space Studies at Goddard Space Flight Center, was recently rediscovered by researchers Geert Jan van Oldenborgh and Rein Haarsma from the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute (KNMI). Taking a break from research due to illness, the scientists got a chance to look back through some older, overlooked publications.

    “It turns out to be a very interesting read,” they noted in their blog on RealClimate.org.

    Even though the paper was given 10 pages in Science, it covers a lot of advanced topics related to climate — indicating the level of knowledge known about climate science even at that time.

    “The concepts and conclusions have not changed all that much,” van Oldenborgh and Haarsma note. “Hansen et al clearly indicate what was well known (all of which still stands today) and what was uncertain.”

    Within the paper, several graphs note the growth of atmospheric carbon dioxide, both naturally occurring and manmade, and projected a future rise based on the continued use of fossil fuels by humans. Van Oldenborgh and Haarsma overlaid data gathered by NASA and KNMI in recent years and found that the projections made by Hansen et al. were pretty much spot-on.

    If anything, the 1981 projections were “optimistic”.

    Read more: http://www.universetoday.com/94468/1981-climate-change-predictions-were-eerily-accurate/#ixzz2xaL1Ek7f

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  69. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    “What happened to al the scientist who were telling us in the 1960′s that we were on the verge of plunging into a new ice age?

    And what happened to the scientists who were telling us around the same time that the world couldn’t feed 5 billion people?

    And what about the scientists who were warning that we would run out of oil by 2000?”

    Exactly.

    Science has limits, and the pronouncements of scientists can be wrong. Nor are scientists immune to corruption, both financial and political.

    The original IPCC statement was changed, despite protests from some IPCC scientists, so that it’s wording would sound more apocalyptic.

    For Griff and some others though Climate Science is a religion and scientists their high priests predicting that the end is nigh. Which is why he uses every GD thread to preach the Word to us. ;)

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  70. Ross12 (1,456 comments) says:

    Griff and cha — don’t you realise all this IPCC stuff is not about science. It is all politics and money.

    But I would like to learn something from you guys. You all say that everything is so dire with what is happening we have to do something NOW. So please tell me exactly what we should do. Don’t just say reduce emissions. I want to know details of what has to be done.

    The reason for the request is I’m sick of having all this alarmism about problems with no answers to these problems being given.

    Carbon taxes , ETS, cap and trade schemes are just wealth transfers –they don’t solve anything. The foresters in NZ have made a fortune from the ETS paid for by increased power bills –nothing else has changed.

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  71. Weihana (4,607 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,660 comments) says:
    April 1st, 2014 at 11:42 am

    griff, the IPCC is populated by quacks and written by young people without qualifications or by those with an agenda.

    Those young whippersnapers…

    The former president of a Commission on Sea Level Change, Nils-Axel Mörner, also addressed the House of Lords committee. Mörner, who has 40 years experience in his field, called attention to the disparity between what genuine sea level specialists think and what those who write IPCC reports believe. Those in the second group, he says, lack hands-on expertise.


    We feel compelled to respond to the recent article by Mörner (2004) because he makes several major errors in his analysis, and as a result completely misinterprets the record of sea level change from the TOPEX/Poseidon (T/P) satellite altimeter mission. One major criticism we have with the paper is that Mörner does not include a single reference to any altimeter study, all of which refute his claim that there is no apparent change in global mean sea level (GMSL) [see Cazenave and Nerem, (2004) for a summary]. The consensus of all other researchers looking at the T/P and Jason data is that GMSL has been rising at a rate of 3.0 mm/year (Fig. 1) over the last 13 years (3.3 mm/year when corrected for the effects of glacial isostatic adjustment (Tamisiea et al., 2005)).

    Mörner gives no details for the source of the data or processing strategy he used to produce Fig. 2, other than to say it is based on “raw data”. Because the details of the analysis are not presented in his paper, we are left to speculate on how this result could have been obtained, based on our years of experience as members of the T/P and Jason-1 Science Working Team. Mörner was apparently oblivious to the corrections that must be made to the “raw” altimeter data in order to make correct use of the data.

    As with any satellite data set, calibration and validation of the data must be performed after launch to determine if there are any instrumental errors, find the source of those errors, and evaluate their behavior over time. Satellite altimetry is somewhat unique in that many adjustments must be made to the raw range measurements to account for atmospheric delays (ionosphere, troposphere), ocean tides, variations in wave height (which can bias how the altimeter measures sea level), and a variety of other effects. In addition, the sea level measurements can be affected by the method used to process the altimeter waveforms, and by the techniques and data used to compute the orbit of the satellite. Early releases of the satellite Geophysical Data Records (GDRs) often contain errors in the raw measurements, the measurement corrections, and the orbit estimates that are later corrected through an on-going calibration/validation process defined by the T/P and Jason Science Working Team.

    – Nerem; et al. (2007). “Comment on “Estimating future sea level change from past records” by Nils-Axel Mörner”. Global and Planetary Change 55: 358–60

    Each of them possesses highly specialized knowledge. Each of them is a seasoned professional with long experience in his field. They are, in other words, exactly the kind of people you’d expect to find at the heart of an organization comprised of world-class scientists examining one of the planet’s most important questions. But they are all IPCC outsiders. This suggests the IPCC defines top scientists and best experts differently than do most of us.

    Are there only three experts in the whole world? Is everyone but these three “young people without qualifications”? What qualifications do you have Fletch to make pronouncements on who is or is not an authority on these subjects? The truth is you have a bias and you choose to believe those who appeal to your preconceived belief.

    The bottom line is if there is an argument from authority to be made, then you lose. As Griff has pointed out every major scientific body in the world is in broad agreement with the IPCC consensus.

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  72. lilman (968 comments) says:

    Global Warming ,bring it.

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  73. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    Every day is April Fools day for this man

    ‘The costs of inaction are catastrophic': John Kerry responds to UN report on carbon emissions

    He’s off to sort out the Middle East again…..

    I don’t know whether to laugh or cry

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  74. Weihana (4,607 comments) says:

    Ross12 (896 comments) says:
    April 1st, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    Griff and cha — don’t you realise all this IPCC stuff is not about science. It is all politics and money.

    But I would like to learn something from you guys.

    The notion that you seek to learn something is not consistent with your assumed premise that the IPCC is a political conspiracy. What could possibly dissuade you from this view? Nothing because whatever is offered as evidence will simply be dismissed as part of the conspiracy.

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  75. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    “Griff and cha — don’t you realise all this IPCC stuff is not about science. It is all politics and money.”

    I don’t think that’s the case to the degree your saying. The balance of evidence seems to strongly suggest that we are going through a period of severe climate change, and that human activity most likely plays some role in that, along with other factors.

    It’s more the apocalyptic alarmist angle that I question.

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  76. Weihana (4,607 comments) says:

    mandk (634 comments) says:
    April 1st, 2014 at 11:59 am

    @ griffith,

    It’s not that scientists are trying to defraud the world, it’s just that science is not immune to fashionable thinking.

    True in general.

    What happened to al the scientist who were telling us in the 1960′s that we were on the verge of plunging into a new ice age?

    And what happened to the scientists who were telling us around the same time that the world couldn’t feed 5 billion people?

    And what about the scientists who were warning that we would run out of oil by 2000?

    Ergo we can’t trust science and God created the world 6000 years ago.

    Before we consider the merits of public policy based on scientific consensus you should first demonstrate that an actual consensus existed on any of those theories.

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  77. Viking2 (11,574 comments) says:

    In the past 20 years Henry had amassed 90 convictions, 49 of which were prison terms. The latest were his first for sexual offending, the judge said.

    The report, which recommended prison, noted his association with the Nomads.

    Starting with a 9-year prison sentence, the judge elevated it for previous offending, also noting Henry was subject to prison release conditions at the time.

    When she answered the door, he kissed her and took her to her bedroom, undressing her.

    In the following eight or so hours he threatened her and subjected her to continuing sexual assaults. At times she was in excruciating pain and crying but too frightened of him not to do as he wanted.

    The attack only ended when a nurse visited the victim in the morning.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9889037/Disabled-woman-in-all-night-sex-ordeal

    ====================================

    what a piece of shit.

    No mention however of three strikes forever.

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  78. cha (4,084 comments) says:

    Nothing because whatever is offered as evidence will simply be dismissed as part of the conspiracy.

    Damn moon landing.
    /

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/03/21/the-paper-they-dont-want-you-to-read/

    http://www.thebrokenwindow.net/papers/L/LskyetalPsychScienceinPressClimateConspiracy.pdf

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  79. johnwellingtonwells (137 comments) says:

    Environmently friendly firewood
    From the Waiuku Post, Firewood. Green Party Fundraiser.Dry split pine, $190 for 2.5m. Free local delivery Ph:235-xxxx
    Must be April Fools Day

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  80. mandk (1,020 comments) says:

    “Ergo we can’t trust science and God created the world 6000 years ago.”

    wow! where did that one come from?

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  81. OneTrack (3,235 comments) says:

    “It’s more the apocalyptic alarmist angle that I question.”

    And that, apparently, the solution is for rich countries to pay more tax, which can then be sent to poorer countries, so that they can buy cars and build coal-fired power stations.

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  82. Weihana (4,607 comments) says:

    mandk (635 comments) says:
    April 1st, 2014 at 12:41 pm

    “Ergo we can’t trust science and God created the world 6000 years ago.”

    wow! where did that one come from?

    Probably should have included a smiley face there. :)

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  83. Ross12 (1,456 comments) says:

    Weihana

    If politics and money are not involved perhaps you can tell why when the scientists have written the summary of the IPCC report for the policy makers their summary was taken off to Stockholm ( for this report) by the bureaucrats , politicians and activist scientists and over several days they go over it line by line and make it politically acceptable wording. After this they then send back about ten pages of amendments to authors of the various chapters so those chapters are saying the same thing as the summary. If it was all about science this would not occur.
    I am not saying it is a conspiracy, to use your words, I’m just saying how it works.

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  84. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    What does ‘activist scientists’ mean in this context? Could they be scientists with whom you disagree?

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  85. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    The scepticism around AGW will never go away.
    At the time when global warming started to be promoted around the world, the first thing that happened was money grabbing politicians got involved, and taxes went up. We were told of catastrophic events within 20 years. Nothing has happened, apart from a generally recognised climatic variation, which has been happening for eons.

    Then it was found that a lot of the “evidence” that mankind was entirely responsible for global warming had been cooked up by some scientists , who were being publicly funded by governments to comply with their view. Despite this, the “train driver” (some scientist the head of IPCC is ) and his minions continue with their bleating and crying wolf.

    So until we actually see something happening that is obviously human induced which cannot be explained by natural cycles, the AGW/Climate Change agenda will continue to be doubted and denied by the majority of the populations of the world.

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  86. Weihana (4,607 comments) says:

    Ross12 (897 comments) says:
    April 1st, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    …politicians and activist scientists and over several days they go over it line by line and make it politically acceptable wording. After this they then send back about ten pages of amendments to authors of the various chapters so those chapters are saying the same thing as the summary…

    …I am not saying it is a conspiracy, to use your words, I’m just saying how it works…

    Based upon what evidence do you assert “how it works”?

    You quibble over the word “conspiracy” yet what you describe is clearly a conspiracy to, according to you, change the science to fit a political agenda. An absurd suggestion that seems to necessitate the complicity of a large number of scientists and all the major scientific organizations around the world who also promote the same basic message.

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  87. Weihana (4,607 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi (1,294 comments) says:
    April 1st, 2014 at 1:17 pm

    So until we actually see something happening that is obviously human induced which cannot be explained by natural cycles…

    Which would be what exactly? Climate models have been constructed taking into account natural cycles and the best explanation for recent warming is human activity. If this is to be dismissed out of hand (because computers are mysterious to older folk) then what exactly would prove it to you?

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  88. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Scary graphs and not-so-scary graphs.

    http://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2014/03/30/cet-and-the-bit-the-met-office-dont-want-you-to-see/

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  89. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    It is dismissed out of hand by people like Don because they are uncomfortable with the implications of AGW.

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  90. All_on_Red (1,650 comments) says:

    Weihana
    Show me a GCM which has been proven to be correct by observation. You can’t.
    Also models have not been constructed mirroring all natural cycles. Stop telling lies. They are still finding out about natural cycles. Most of the knowledge on ENSO ( hattip Bob Tisdale) for example has only come in the last few years. So stop bullshitting.
    It’s appropriate that this report came out on April Fools Day.
    Given its a scientifically observed fact that sea level rise is currently running at 1-3 mm per decade the idea that the sea will rise 500-1000 mm in the next 85 years ( by 2100) is a joke.
    That’s 12 times as much as we see now.
    If we are to have 4 k warming over the next 85 years then that’s a huge shift from the past 22 years of NO warming.
    Besides the whole ice melting levels rising scam is predicated on TCS being above 4 k and it’s not. It’s more like .7- 1.3k
    You guys are gullible fools and it’s quite clear you don’t get the base science.
    I saw Griff say the other day
    “AGW is human caused”! Considering the A stands for anthropogenic which means human caused , his comment was a blinding glimpse of the obvious and an example of how ignorant he is.
    It’s funny to watch you guys parrot the meme from SKS and Desmog etc.

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  91. All_on_Red (1,650 comments) says:

    Mikey
    I’d be concerned if I believed the world is going to warm by 4 k and seal levels rise by 1 metre all within 85 years( because that’s what you believe right?) but I don’t think it will.
    And the observed science backs me up. That’s why I am not concerned about Catastrophic AGW. And it is CATASTROPHIC AGW you’re talking about aren’t you. The whole 4 degrees- right?
    Btw- I’m a lukewarmer, if you know what that means.

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  92. stephieboy (3,413 comments) says:

    Good on you griffith, the shiny beacon of light on Climate change, rightly needling the climate denial crockers backed by the lunacy of the likes of Christopher Monckton ( formally his Lordship ) and to the righ Fox News and to the right of them,WND etc.

    Fltech , you gave mention of the recent biopic Noah actually getting some reasonably favourable reviews here.You”ll be pleased to learn that it does apparently make allusions to contemporary concerns about the environment and climate change.Apart from those facts the rest is in the realm of a kind of sic fi fantasy and not meant to be taken literally.

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  93. Colville (2,300 comments) says:

    I see that Stuff has changed the stock photo that they are using for Colin Craig. Much better picture.
    Interesting as media use the picture to help frame opinion.

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  94. cha (4,084 comments) says:

    My brother went to school with this shit stain and while it’s pleasing he’s had his day in court for all the harm he’s done over the years $65k in fines is one up from the wet bus ticket. His old man was no better.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/9891348/Alan-Spiers-fined-over-car-repossession-practices

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  95. Manolo (14,080 comments) says:

    stephieboy & Griff, an apocalyptical marriage of enfeebled minds: when Feminism 101 meets Derangement 501.

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  96. Manolo (14,080 comments) says:

    Our own addled Griff will play the leading in this comedy (read farce): http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/31/climate-change-to-make-it-off-broadway-debut-thanks-to-national-science/

    The National Science Foundation has spent nearly $700,000 on a climate change-themed theatrical production, leaving some in Congress questioning if the organization’s grant funds could be put to better use.

    The play is being produced by New York-based activist theater group The Civilians. According to a plot description on the theater company’s website, “focuses on a woman named Phyllis as she tries to track down a friend who disappeared while filming an assignment for a nature show on a tropical island. During her search, she also uncovers a devious plot surrounding an international climate summit in Auckland, New Zealand.”

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  97. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (887 comments) says:
    April 1st, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    And the observed science backs me up

    Fail

    As has been pointed out so many fucking times it does not.

    I suggest You refer to the scientists responsible for the AAAS statement and dwell on the authority of the qualifications they bring to the science debate.

    Nobel laureate Dr. Mario Molina, distinguished professor of chemistry
    and biochemistry at the University of California, San Diego and Scripps
    Institution of Oceanography and co-chairs, Dr. Diana Wall,
    distinguished professor of biology and director at Colorado State
    University’s School of Global Environmental Sustainability and Dr. James
    McCarthy, Alexander Agassiz Professor of Biological Oceanography at
    Harvard, chaired the climate science panel that generated the report.

    Luke warmer.

    Is still in a cloud of self inflicted denial .

    same as a few others that try to hide their wingnut stupidity behind such a weasel.

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  98. Manolo (14,080 comments) says:

    I await UT’s sane comments on this: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/591800-diego-garcia-philip-wood-ibm-engineer-on-flight-mh370-posts-photo-from-prison/print.php

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  99. Ross12 (1,456 comments) says:

    Here are the 10 pages for you, weihana –its all out there to be seen.

    http://nofrakkingconsensus.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/p36doc4_wgi-12_changes-underlying-assessment.pdf

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  100. stephieboy (3,413 comments) says:

    Where Manolo comes to grips with birther nuttiness and craziness,

    http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/barackobama/a/Obama-Birth-Certificate-Jokes.htm

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  101. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    I await UT’s sane comments on this

    “I work for IBM and I have managed to hide my cellphone in my ass during the hijack.”

    Ouch.

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/iPhone-5-Exact-Weight-and-Size-Dimensions-292761.shtml

    As such, the iPhone 5’s height is 4.87 inches (123.8 mm); the width is 2.31 inches (58.6 mm); the depth is 0.30 inches (7.6 mm); and the weight is 3.95 ounces (112 grams).

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  102. wreck1080 (3,972 comments) says:

    cancel this guys right to stay in nz….

    The businessman granted citizenship against official advice after a Government minister lobbied on his behalf has admitted domestic violence charges.

    Donghua Liu today pleaded guilty to assaulting a woman and assault with intent to injure after an incident at the Boulevard Hotel in Newmarket, the first stage of a proposed $70 million property development by one of his companies.

    I don’t care if he ends up stateless, why on earth is the govt letting these people into the country against advice?

    Once again, NO ACCOUNTABILITY from politicians.

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  103. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    mikenmild (8,223 comments) says:
    April 1st, 2014 at 1:30 pm
    It is dismissed out of hand by people like Don because they are uncomfortable with the implications of AGW.

    Wrong mikey.

    When the global warming thingie first started, I was pretty much a believer.

    But then Al Gore started his antics, along with Mann and co with their bullshit, so my doubt started, and since then everything that has happened, and the research that I have done taking acoount of both sides of the argument, I am an AGW sceptic. I would not call myself a denier, because as I have said here on several occasions, I acknowledge that warming is occurring over a time frame, as it has many times in geological history.

    But I doubt that man-made CO 2 emissions are the main cause, and frankly, there is very strong evidence that the increase in CO 2 levels is assisting in greening the planet and increasing growth of vegetation – ideal for food production.

    Hpwever, if I become convinced that the sea is rising – its the same level on the beach at Otuometai now as it was when I used to play on it when I was a kid back in the late 1940’s – the sea rise will be observable when it does.

    So who’s bullshitting who? And besides, I’ll be long dead by the end of this century – even by 2050. And I taught my kids well, so they’ll handle it like most other human beings will through using their brains to adapt.

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  104. Weihana (4,607 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (887 comments) says:
    April 1st, 2014 at 1:45 pm

    Weihana
    Show me a GCM which has been proven to be correct by observation. You can’t.

    What would you consider “proven to be correct”? The models themselves are derived from observation (e.g. equations for fluid motion, parameterization for small-scale processes).

    Also models have not been constructed mirroring all natural cycles. Stop telling lies. They are still finding out about natural cycles. Most of the knowledge on ENSO ( hattip Bob Tisdale) for example has only come in the last few years. So stop bullshitting.

    How would one ever prove that “all natural cycles” had been taken into account? Surely if you are promoting a theory that there is a natural cycle and it accounts for some climatic trend then the onus is on you to make the case. One should not discount a theory simply because it cannot prove that it will withstand every future discovery. No scientific principle could meet that standard of proof.

    If we are to have 4 k warming over the next 85 years then that’s a huge shift from the past 22 years of NO warming.

    I disagree there has been no warming over the past 22 years. The 2000s were clearly warmer than the 90s. Ocean heat content has been rising.

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  105. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    http://andthentheresphysics.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/watt-about-bob-and-william/

    in the absence of AGW one would – I think – expect El Niño events to be associated with an increase in global surface temperatures that decay quite quickly (months) back to the pre-event value, while La Niña events would be associated with small reductions in surface temperatures and the recovery of the ocean energy lost during the El Niño event. On average, one would expect the global surface temperatures to be roughly constant (i.e., ENSO cycles should not, by themselves, produce a long-term surface warming trend). That El Niño events are associated with step increases in surface temperatures indicates that the pre-event surface temperature is below equilibrium (due to anthropogenic forcings) and the El Niño event is simply a mechanism for rapidly driving surface temperatures towards equilibrium.

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  106. stephieboy (3,413 comments) says:

    UT, the date of the comment cellphone and his arse.?
    If 9/11 then IPhone not released until 2007.
    Consider context and if the comment was humor.!

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  107. flipper (4,230 comments) says:

    Fletch at 11.42am…

    “…One of Kovats’ health chapter colleagues was an American named Jonathan Patz. He earned earned a Masters degree in Public Health in 1992 and had his first academic paper published in late 1995. Yet in 1994 the IPCC judged his credentials so impressive he was appointed one of its lead Given the involvement of both Kovats and Patz, Paul Reiter’s description of the IPCC’s 1995 health chapter as amateurish starts to make sense. Rather than recruiting real experts like Reiter ,the IPCC enlisted young, inexperienced, non-experts instead. It has been doing so since the mid-1990s. Yet in 2011 newspapers still report that the IPCC is a collection of “the world’s leading scientists.”

    Another excellent comment Fletch.

    As you probably know, Paul Reiter (actually an Englishman, but based at the Pasteur. I have previously posted his private email address.) is regarded as the world authority on malaria and similar.

    That the two resident f/wits cannot recognise the difference between real scientist and the NGO children employed by the IPCC is indicative of their ability.

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  108. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    Very interesting projection of the future using historical cycles.

    The Economic Crisis and the Future of Mankind

    In the graph, the Industrial Evolution follows a 72 ±7 years generational cycle of evolution and overproduction of energies and machines, the famous ‘Kondratieff’ cycle1,2 in which a nation discovers a new form of energy (white) applied then to the creation of new forms of money, the informative software of the economy, and new machines/weapons (red), its hardware, used by the dominant nation of each cycle to conquer the world.

    The Origin of the cycle is biological (the life-span of a human being divided in 3 ‘generations’ of grand-parents, sons and grand-sons that carry the discovery and evolution of each duplet of new energies and machines to its completion). But the purpose of the cycle is ‘memetic’ – the evolution of selfish memes of metal’, weapons, money and machines, which is the purpose of our ‘technological’ civilization….

    …White collar managers & scientists reach their intellectual height as they don’t suffer yet mental atrophy, caused by its substitution for PCs, minds of metal in the electronic age.

    Thus the turn of the XIX-XX C. was the ideal age of synergy and symbiosis between man and machine. Yet the 1929 overproduction crisis broke that balance, halving factory jobs, as electro-mechanical engines automated assembly lines and taylorism used electric systems to control, monitor and intensify the speed of human labor, alienating workers, in a tendency that constantly makes humans closer to machines as they adapt to the monotony, repetitive tasks & harshness of metal-work conditions.

    In right graph we compare the 29 and 2008 labor crisis, which so far are parallel in labor losses.

    But this labor crisis unlike the 29 crisis has no end. Since robots are ‘metalife’ organisms that complete the Industrial R=evolution. So there is not a new Kondratieff wave to create new jobs in emerging industries, as the 2 economic roles of mankind, as consumers and workers, reproducers of machines can be performed by robots in automated company-mothers.White collar pcs & blue collar robots make all human labor obsolete, except jobs better suit by the laws of affinity to human labor directly related to the handling of humans or the production of life-based welfare goods (health-care, tourism, art, food, education, housing, etc.)

    http://evolutionaryeconomics.wordpress.com/

    http://evolutionaryeconomics.wordpress.com/times/the-2008-36-electronic-crisis/labor-crisis-overproduction-of-white-collar-pcs-blue-collar-robots/

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  109. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    That the two resident f/wits cannot recognise the difference between real scientist and the “NGO children employed by the IPCC ” is indicative of their ability.

    The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is a huge and yet very small organization. Thousands of scientists

    from all over the world contribute to the work of the IPCC on a
    voluntary basis as authors, contributors and reviewers. None of them is
    paid by the IPCC. The work of the IPCC is guided by a set of principles and procedures.
     
    anel takes major decisions at Plenary Sessions of government representatives. A central IPCC Secretariat supports the work
    of the IPCC.

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  110. muggins (3,816 comments) says:

    As a matter of no interest,
    If Cunliffe = cunners, what does Key =?

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  111. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Wingnut

    :lol:

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Wing_nut
    Urban Dictionary: wingnut
    http://www.urbandictionary.com › define‎
    n. An outspoken, irrational person with deeply-held, nominally conservative, political views. A person who chooses on principle to be flagrantly ig…
    What does wingnut mean? wingnut Definition. Meaning of wingnut …
    onlineslangdictionary.com › meaning-definition-of‎
    This Slang page is designed to explain what the meaning of wingnut is. The slang word / phrase / acronym wingnut means… . Online Slang Dictionary. A list of …
    Wingnut (politics) – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    en.wikipedia.org › wiki‎
    The New York Times’ David M. Herszenhorn has defined a “wing nut” as “a loud darling of cable television and talk radio whose remarks are outrageous but …
    http://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary‎
    a piece of metal that has a hole in the center and two projecting parts and that you can screw onto a bolt by using your fingers …
    wing nut:
    http://www.alphadictionary.com › goodword › word‎
    The political meaning is odd since it makes sense in reference to any extremist, that is, a right-wing nut or a left-wing nut. However, it is used almost exclusively …

    Being a wingnut requires a particularly paranoid worldview, teetering on the edge of or falling wholesale into tinfoil hat territory, as wingnuttery causes the victim to refuse to accept any source of information that doesn’t back up their prejudices (essentially, wingnuts are almost always authoritarian as well as being politically right-wing). Constant gibbering about the “liberal media” as well as a slavish devotion to cognitive dissonance, conspiracy theories, global warming denialism, psychological projection, and crackpot theories of economics (i.e. Austrian school) are also, if not required, at the very least nearly universal symptoms. This is all usually accompanied by a side dish of a severe persecution complex. Not all wingnuts are racists or misogynists, though many racists and misogynists are also wingnuts.

    Unfortunately, in the United States, that seems all the more common every day.
    [edit] See also

    Moonbat, the wingnut’s left-leaning counterpart.
    Abstinence programs
    Glenn Beck
    Flat Earth Society
    Fox News
    Sarah Palin
    Tea Party movement
    Townhall.com

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  112. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Consider context and if the comment was humor.!

    Possibly it was humour or maybe an attempt to make conspiracy theorists look stupid.

    Diego Garcia is still the best location for a conspiracy scenario IMO.
    Also recently the twin of the 777 airliner that disappeared was found in Israel, where it had been in storage.
    No coincidence that they closed all their embassies IMO.

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  113. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    You haven’t just recently discovered RationalWiki, have you griffith? You seem to be quoting it quite often.

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  114. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Wonderful PI ministers see Labour for the deviant, secular, diseases they are, and represent. Let “Tojo” and his rainbow room weirdos languish in opposition for at least three more terms, then they may see that voters want real people, not fairies, half women and men. They also want people with guts, not limp wristed tossers and failed businessmen such as Parker.

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  115. Rowan (2,539 comments) says:

    I laughed when Australia were humiliated by India and bowled out for 80 odd getting themselves eliminated from the tournament, but NZs capitulation against India is just embarrassing, all out for 60! Kane Williamson scores 42 and the rest of the batsman combine for a grand total of 18 runs! thats just sad, I suppose Englands humiliation against the Dutch puts it into perspective, sometimes the rub of the green just doesn’t go your way.

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  116. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Pretty much just a lottery anyway that 20/20 stuff.

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  117. Manolo (14,080 comments) says:

    Well done that man:
    A British sniper killed five Taliban insurgents and a would-be suicide bomber in Afghanistan with one bullet, the British Ministry of Defence says.

    The 20-year-old marksman, a lance corporal in the Coldstream Guards, hit the trigger switch of the device from 930 metres away, causing the bomb to explode.

    The blast killed the would-be bomber and five men around him, a Defence spokesman said.

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  118. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    No mike.
    It’s the old point out the reality for others to see and judge trick.

    Like quoting
    http://www.angelfire.com/or/sociologyshop/lazlong.html

    Others words are some times far more powerful

    ….. I think I attribute.
    (Link cite respect mana)
    to well argued points that are valuable for others to be exposed to.

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  119. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    Something that will be news only to the useful idiots who haven’t bothered to familiarise themselves with the event and who are so appallingly dumb they still won’t believe it even when they watch the video of the Senator who chaired the committee into 911 telling them this is what really happened.

    Former US Senator Bob Graham, who served as chair of the congressional joint committee on 9/11, says a committee’s report on the role of Saudi Arabia in the attacks and its financial support has been kept secret.

    “There were 28 pages in the final report, out of over 800 total, which were totally censored from–that were one to the end of that chapter. That was the chapter that largely dealt with the financing of 9/11, who paid for these very complex and in many instances expensive activities that were the predicate for 9/11,” Graham told The Real News Network.

    He said unfortunately the United States will continue to keep the report secret. “I am sad to report that today, some 12 years after we submitted our report, that those 28 pages continue to be withheld from the public,” he said.

    Graham added that he was shocked by the fact that the US intelligence is keeping the report secret simply because it claims its disclosure would hurt the national security of the US. “I was stunned that the intelligence community would feel that it was a threat to national security for the American people to know who had made 9/11 financially possible.”

    The former senator also said greater awareness of Saudi Arabia would change the way the US public view that country.

    And yet still the profoundly dim useful idiots will continue to insist it was done by some guy in a cave in Afghanistan, even when the morons know all the hijackers were in fact from the country whose involvement is being suppressed by the US intelligence and political communities, which will of course mean absolutely nothing whatsoever of any significance at all, to this gaggle of galloping mentals.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/03/31/356673/report-on-saudi-role-in-911-kept-secret/

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  120. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Wasn’t the guy in the cave from Saudi Arabia anyway?

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  121. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    The short Reid.
    Saudi.

    The long.
    your dollar at the pump.

    edit snap

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  122. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    This is significant in the context of the “nuke the russians” quote from Yulia Tymoshenko’s wiretap. Tymoshenko has been called the arch-rival of Viktor Yanukovych.

    Pando has confirmed that the American government – in the form of the US Agency for International Development (USAID) – played a major role in funding opposition groups prior to the revolution. Moreover, a large percentage of the rest of the funding to those same groups came from a US billionaire who has previously worked closely with US government agencies to further his own business interests. This was by no means a US-backed “coup,” but clear evidence shows that US investment was a force multiplier for many of the groups involved in overthrowing Yanukovych.

    http://pando.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co-funded-ukraine-revolution-groups-with-us-government-documents-show/

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  123. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    clear evidence shows that US investment was a force multiplier for many of the groups involved in overthrowing Yanukovych

    Careful UT, you’ll startle the useful idiots. Just don’t start telling us that George Soros doesn’t really believe in democwacy and fweedom, that would definitely cause gweat distwess in their widdle tummies.

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  124. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    LOL

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  125. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    36% of $500,000 is peanuts compared to the billions that the previous President of Ukraine has disappeared. That’s a much bigger conspiracy. But, yeah, whatever. What do I know, I’m a “useful idiot”, aren’t I Reid?

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  126. wikiriwhis business (4,135 comments) says:

    Five things politicians will never tell you about the economy

    The economy. Us here at Truthloader will be the first ones to admit that we have quite a bit of trouble understanding it. But if we’ve learnt anything in recent years, it’s that politicians quite like it that way. Because if us, the voters, really understood what was going on then we might try and do something about it. So we’ve teamed up with the people behind the YouTube channel Renegade Economist and award-winning film “Four Horsemen” to try and shine some light on what it is that the politicians are keeping from us.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwE9Jo6u3sg

    Very good expose of banks and govts. Neo classical economics used by govts is totally useless

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  127. wikiriwhis business (4,135 comments) says:

    The National Party supports economic predators (goldman Sachs etc) as opposed to producers who bring prosperity

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  128. wikiriwhis business (4,135 comments) says:

    Gold expert Jim Sinclair is issuing a warning of a massive downside risk to U.S. sanctions against Russia. Sinclair says watch the “struggling dollar” and Russia accepting any currency for oil and natural gas. Sinclair explains, “It’s struggling . . . because it smells the real teeth of retaliation for sanctions being in the simple acceptance of any currency whatsoever for payment for gas to Europe. Believe me, they will settle in other currencies. . . . It makes energy cheaper. Why in the world would anyone want to pay in dollars if they can pay in their own currency? Russia could retaliate in a way that would have phenomenal impact on the U.S. dollar. . . . Russia has the upper hand. They have it in their ability to turn the U.S. economy upside down and into collapse. There is no question whatsoever. Putin doesn’t need a nuclear bomb. He has a nuclear economic bomb that he can set off at any time.”

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  129. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    Lol – this Ukraine business has to be the biggest foreign policy blunder the USA has made since the Gulf of Tonkin incident

    They’ve broken Ukraine with their meddling, it will be gone as a Nation within less than a decade.

    They’ve saddled American and European taxpayers with a huge bailout bill, money which will go to bankers and ironically some to Russia as well – not to the poor Ukrainian citizens who will continue to suffer even greater deprivations.

    Meanwhile while they are blustering Vladimir Putin has deftly purloined Crimea and taken it to Mother Russia’s bosom :)

    And not matter how much John Kerry huffs and puffs Vladimir Vladimirovich is not going to give it back.

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  130. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    I just had a phone call from a company in the Wellington Region called “Kiwi Heat”, wanting to send people around for a free evaluation of my insulation in the house. I can’t find them anywhere on the internet. Anyway, this was my second call, and I told the woman that I wasn’t interested and that she was the second person that had phoned me this afternoon. Her response was to tell me that I was wrong, that she hadn’t phoned me, and that she was the only person from the company with my number and then she hung up on me.

    So watch out for these people, may they’re some sort of scam or maybe their operators are just badly trained.

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  131. wikiriwhis business (4,135 comments) says:

    Fraud expert and former regulator Professor William Black says, “Even today, we are well into 2014, and the Department of Justice record is intact. There have been zero prosecutions of the elite officers who led the epic epidemic of fraud. It was the most destructive in world history, zero of them even unsuccessfully prosecuted, much less prosecuted.”

    What is the result of massive rampant unprosecuted fraud? Professor Black says, “If you don’t have any accountability, you not only make certain that there is going to be a next blow-up, but it will be worse. . . . We have effectively removed the criminal laws for a particular elite class of frauds.”

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  132. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    “They’ve broken Ukraine with their meddling, it will be gone as a Nation within less than a decade.”

    No, that would be Russian fascist nutjob Putin who broke the Ukraine because they refused to let his corrupt and criminal puppet enslave them to Putin’s racial Slavic empire.

    But Russians are not the worlds brightest people as a rule. Putin just takes his shirt off and half the country goes weak at the knees. Pathetic.

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  133. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    No, that would be Russian fascist nutjob Putin who broke the Ukraine because they refused to let his corrupt and criminal puppet enslave them to Putin’s racial Slavic empire.

    But Russians are not the worlds brightest people as a rule. Putin just takes his shirt off and half the country goes weak at the knees. Pathetic.

    ROFLMAO – more impotent fizzing at the mouth

    Vladimir Putin is running rings around Obama and Kerry – and everybody else.

    The way he has taken Crimea is almost astonishing in its brilliance and audacity.

    You probably recognize this deep down but hiding from it yourself makes you steam at the ears and pound out indignant posts

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  134. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    http://thefreedomreport.us/kerry-implicated-turkey-false-flag-using-alqaeda-start-war-syria/

    Hakan Fidan: If necessary, we can make an attack there (Tomb of Suleyman Sah) as well, there too, we attack preemptively. We can do, I mean, I am trying to understand.

    SEVENTH SCREEN:

    Feridun Sinirlioğlu: We have done these before, these can be done of course. We can make it done,

    Hakan Fidan: I mean, if we are ready to use that thing, in correct time and place, let us do it with a purpose determined by us.

    Ahmet Davutoğlu: Hakan, as you said, if what you mean is a lack of strategy in fabricating a justification, you are right. Against these men…

    An officer: Sir, without that happening-

    Ahmet Davutoğlu: Yes, we will pass on to that okay take it and I am coming. You cannot say to the US Secretary of State, “we need to take strong measures.”

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  135. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    No, that would be Russian fascist nutjob Putin who broke the Ukraine because they refused to let his corrupt and criminal puppet enslave them to Putin’s racial Slavic empire.

    No that would be Obama who clumsily performed probably the most poorly executed colour revolution in the long lamentable history of that genre on Ukraine in order to bring Ukraine into NATO (in direct violation of the agreement made when the USSR broke up), kick the Russian Navy out of Sevastopol and install nukes in Russia’s backyard.

    I mean if this was Russia doing this to Mexico, you useful idiots Shawn would be bleating like hysterical schoolgirls at the blatant naked transparent foolish outrageous unnecessary dangerous aggression that Russia was displaying – if it had done that.

    But instead the US does exactly that, and you and your gaggle of galloping mental Foxtards completely miss what’s really going on, again, and hallucinate it’s Russia whose behaving badly. Talk about dumb.

    I’m amazed you’re even brainy enough to hook yourself up to the interweb. Seriously.

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  136. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    Meanwhile, Conflict with Russia galvanizes Ukraine’s identity:

    KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — He’s one of Russia’s favorite doctors, the author of books read by parents from Moscow to Siberia. And he lives in eastern Ukraine where the Russian language is dominant and ties to Russia strong.

    But when Russia seized control of Crimea, Yevgeny Komarovsky sent this blunt message to the Russian people: We Ukrainians are a nation of our own.

    “Don’t impose peace on us,” Komarovsky told his fans in Russia, many of whom used his books to raise their children, in a video that received nearly 1.2 million views on YouTube.

    The appeal for an independent and united Ukraine by the Russian-speaking Komarovsky underscored Ukraine’s distinct national identity, and belied Russian President Vladimir Putin’s claim that Ukraine is part of the Russian family. In fact, Russia’s invasion — which Putin justifies by saying he needs to protect Russian speakers — has fueled a surge of patriotism among a great many Ukrainians, whatever their language.

    These feelings of unity are underpinned by a sense of fragility stemming from being a country that has for centuries been dominated by great empires to the east and west. And from folklore to ancestral traditions, Ukraine has shown itself to possess a distinct identity.

    The Ukrainian national consciousness is steeped in love of one’s land and the quest for survival. The challenge simply to stay whole is as acute as ever today after Russia annexed Ukraine’s strategic Crimean Peninsula, stoking fears that the Kremlin is planning to invade more Russian-speaking eastern territories.

    Ukraine, a land the size of France with a population of 46 million, has historically been a massive prize in the heart of Europe. The site of the ancient Slavic state, the Kievan Rus, it was the regional cradle of Orthodox Christianity. Over centuries, parts of Ukraine have belonged to Poland, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Russia and the Soviet Union.

    Ukraine is also a land steeped in 20th century tragedy — conflict so traumatic that one historian has called Ukraine “Bloodland.” The litany of calamities include the Bolshevik revolution and ensuing civil war that brought Ukraine into the Soviet Union; a devastating famine engineered by Soviet dictator Josef Stalin that killed millions of Ukrainians; Stalin’s purges that targeted Ukraine’s intellectual elite; invasion by Hitler and the murder of more than 1 million of Ukrainian Jews in the Holocaust.

    Ukraine became independent in the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union. It has since struggled to define its relationship to the world as well its ideology, shifting between aspirations to be a Western state that belongs in the European Union, or a post-Soviet republic that tilts toward Russia.

    Ethnic, cultural, linguistic and religious similarities between Ukrainians and Russians — as well as centuries of shared history — have prompted Russian President Vladimir Putin to claim that the two nations are in fact one.

    But to most Ukrainians, as well as scholars and historians, that is simply not true.

    Komarovsky, who writes best-selling books on pediatrics that fight Soviet-era stereotypes such as a purported need to overfeed and overclothe children, said Putin in fact woke some Ukrainians up to the reality of who they are as a people.

    “Nobody has done as much for the country’s unity as Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin,” said Komarovsky.

    In the Russia-friendly eastern city of Donetsk, sales clerk Tetyana Ryabchenko, 58, said she was deeply hurt by Russia. “A lot of Ukrainians have changed their attitude toward Russia,” Ryabchenko said. “One should look at the Russians’ deeds, not words. And the deeds are horrible.”

    Pollsters support the view that Russia’s invasion has fostered Ukrainian unity and identity.

    Mykhailo Mishchenko of the Razumkov Center in Kiev said that Russia’s takeover of Crimea and the threat of further incursion have fueled patriotism throughout the country.

    “Views have changed, pro-Ukrainian sentiment has risen,” Mishchenko said. “In this conflict between Ukraine and Russia, the predominant position is in support of Ukraine. Negative views toward the actions of the Russian leadership are clearly pronounced.”

    Ukrainians are also largely united by a strong independence streak that makes them suspicious of authoritarian rulers — especially rulers from afar.

    “It’s a freedom-loving, rebellious spirit that will always remind its leaders that they are temporary and if we want to, we will oust them,” said Volodymyr Yermolenko, who teaches philosophy at the Kyiv Mohyla Academy in the Ukrainian capital.

    Folklore may be one indication of the differences between traditional Russian and Ukrainian mindsets.

    In a popular Russian folk tale, a childless old couple transforms a dough-boy into their son. When the creature — called Kolobok — disobeys his parents and runs away, he gets eaten by a fox. In a similar Ukrainian tale, Ivasyk Telesyk, a boy who materialized from a piece of wood, is also separated from his parents through a twist of fate, but manages to escape an evil snake and return home.

    “Ukraine is one big country in defiance,” said Andriy Bondar, a modern Ukrainian writer. “Ukrainians are the most stubborn people in the world. … The Kolobok ending is not for us.”

    The most prominent literary figures in Ukraine and Russia also embody the differences. Russia’s great poet Aleksandr Pushkin preached liberty in his poems, but his family owned serfs. Ukraine’s national symbol, the renowned poet Taras Shevchenko, was born a serf himself.

    Having long specialized in agriculture and boasting some of Europe’s most fertile soil, Ukrainians also have strong ties to their land.

    Last spring, nearly 60 percent of Ukrainians planted potatoes on their personal plots, according to a poll conducted by the Razumkov Center. For many, growing food is just a way of getting by; for others, it’s a tribute to ancestral traditions.

    “The national ethos is this hard-working, honest peasant attached to the land,” said Catherine Wanner, professor of history, anthropology and religious studies at Penn State University, who wrote a book about Ukraine’s identity. “Part of the distinction (from Russians) is not wanting to be a colony, but also not wanting to be an imperial power.”

    The Russian national anthem glorifies Russia’s might and grandeur. The Ukrainian anthem dreams of expelling enemies and finally being masters of their own land. In fact the central message of Ukraine’s anthem is: Freedom is not dead yet.

    Some in Ukraine’s Russian-speaking east and south do feel nostalgic for the Soviet past. And many cherish ties with Russia, both economic and cultural.

    But that does not make them Russian, argues Penn State’s Wanner.

    “Most people, regardless of which language is their first language, regardless of where they were born, nonetheless feel some kind of an attachment to the place where they live,” Wanner said.

    “And that’s Ukraine.”

    I normally don’t post entire articles, but this one’s worth it.

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  137. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    Reid,

    Hello!! Where you think the term, “useful idiot” originated? Hint: look towards Russia.

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  138. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    “I’m amazed you’re even brainy enough to hook yourself up to the interweb. Seriously.”

    Reid, trust me son, believing the world is run by alien lizard people in cahoots with Jews and Freemasons is clearly a sign of monumental stupidity.

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  139. EAD (1,331 comments) says:

    Dr Boom, Gloom & Doom Marc Faber tells a Melbourne investment conference that a New World Order is fast approaching:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-31/mark-faber-old-world-order-over

    He argues that the current 43 year debt super-cycle is nearing the end and when the tide goes out we will see who was swimming naked.

    He argues the West has in the main used these eye-watering levels of debt to fuel consumption, pump up asset prices and make promises to their electorates that mathematically cannnot be kept while the East has used the debt to invest in factories, plant i.e. investments that generated wealth and is not stuck with the dead hand of democratic socialism.

    He leaves with these wise words “remember consumption doesn’t create a strong economy. ‘Wealth doesn’t come from consumerism, it comes from capital spending, the balance of power will start to shift more rapidly towards emerging countries after the fast approaching financial crisis”

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  140. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    The rise of the middle class is the direct result of the growth

    history tells us a strong middle class leads to revolt if their wants start being denied.

    China is balancing on a knife-edge of excessive exponential growth or bubble collapse whilst struggling under the gremlin of the middle class growing on the regimes back.

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  141. greybeard (62 comments) says:

    Dirty Harry:
    I know this is a very late comment to make about your posting, but never mind.
    When this article about the $400,000 “taonga” sale appeared on Stuff , I ( along with a lot of other readers ) posted comments of various sorts.
    About an hour after the article appeared, the comments were removed. Obviously the parties involved ( i.e. the Love family ) had complained about the tenor of the comments, which as I recall were mainly scathing of the proposed sale process.
    The Stuff editors succumbed, as was to be expected.
    My own comment on this event was :
    “Remove it from Te Papa
    Sell it to Puke Ariki
    Spend all the money
    Demand it back from Puke Ariki”.

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  142. nasska (11,813 comments) says:

    Two women are tramping in the bush. After an hour or so, they come to a stream. Unable to cross, they decide to walk along the stream and look for a narrower place.
    Fortunately they come to an old bridge spanning the stream. Deciding the bridge safe, the two women proceed to cross.
    Halfway across, one woman stops and says to the other, “I’ve always wanted to be like the guys, and urinate off a bridge.”
    The other woman looks around and says, “Well, I don’t see anyone around, now’s your chance!”
    The first woman drops her hiking shorts and backs over to the side of the bridge. As she begins to urinate, she looks over her shoulder. “Holy shit!” she exclaims, “I just pissed in a canoe!”
    Alarmed, the second woman hurries over, and peeks at the stream.
    “Calm down,” she says. “That wasn’t a canoe you pissed in, it was only your reflection.”

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  143. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Those who sell it blow the money on bread and circus for the bros

    Who will then claim as tribal hapu they want the treasure, land, smoked skull or whatever back.

    Its been going on for …..

    since the whalers and sealers first arrived here.

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  144. nasska (11,813 comments) says:

    Reid

    Things have gone a bit quiet on Fukushima over the last couple of months…..have you seen anything new anywhere online?

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  145. Johnboy (17,007 comments) says:

    That was last week on the Tauherinikau swing bridge nasska. I was disguised as that canoe! :)

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  146. nasska (11,813 comments) says:

    How was the water JB? :)

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  147. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Amazing what some well placed gutted road kill hedgepig can do to disguise a man JB.

    Always thought bake the little sods in clay sounded yummy with the right seasoning and enough mutton fat.

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  148. Johnboy (17,007 comments) says:

    I thought I was in the ocean not a river nasska as what I spotted looked a lot like a green lipped Mussel! :)

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  149. Johnboy (17,007 comments) says:

    What thread is the “MH370 parked up under the Faraday shielded hanger on Diego Garcia”.. on tonight? :)

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  150. Viking2 (11,574 comments) says:

    Golden shower then JB? :lol:

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  151. mikenmild (11,777 comments) says:

    Ugly is yet to give us an update on that one, Johnboy.

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  152. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    While Reid and some other Putin ass kissers are always banging on about Israel they are strangely silent about this:

    Russian War Crimes in Georgia.

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  153. Viking2 (11,574 comments) says:

    found it for you JB.

    http://screencast.com/t/OBXHBvVBZOaK

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  154. mandk (1,020 comments) says:

    I case you haven’t come across him, do take a look at this show reel of work by Mark Gee. He does a lot of his work in and around Wellington. It’s breathtakingly beautiful.

    http://vimeo.com/72533613

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  155. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    Um Shawn the soldiers in that video are Georgians.

    As you might recall Georgia launched a surprise attack on Tskhinval(i) in 2008 during the opening of the Olympics as it happens.

    Russia responded by kicking their asses.

    Update: I see its a play list but the person who put it together didn’t realize they had a video that contradicted their case as the very first one :)

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  156. nasska (11,813 comments) says:

    I reckon this caption writer got it about right. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zuyf7x7u3zi1xib/Parenting%201.jpg

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  157. cha (4,084 comments) says:

    The way he has taken Crimea is almost astonishing in its brilliance and audacity.

    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

    http://en.ria.ru/world/20140319/188544777/Crimean-Tatars-Will-Have-to-Vacate-Land–Official.html

    https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/commentaryanalysis/540777-another-genocide-has-started-already

    http://www.iccrimea.org/scholarly/jopohl.html

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  158. Viking2 (11,574 comments) says:

    Have a look at this video. Stunning night sky around Wellington and wairarapa like you have never seen it.

    http://vimeo.com/72533613

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  159. Johnboy (17,007 comments) says:

    Understandable Andrei. You Russki’s all look and sound the same to us civilised folk! :)

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  160. Viking2 (11,574 comments) says:

    Sheep shaggers are not what we cultured ones would call civilized, JB.

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  161. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    Reid, trust me son, believing the world is run by alien lizard people in cahoots with Jews and Freemasons is clearly a sign of monumental stupidity.

    Crikey Shawn it’s bloody lucky I don’t believe that then, isn’t it. Of course if gaggles of galloping mentals pretend that I do, what on earth can I do about them other than just let them continue to blunder with their lips?

    Russian War Crimes in Georgia.

    Why would anyone believe a link from a Foxtard Shawn and I see Andrei’s already corrected you anyway. Shoot yourself in the foot eh? Ouch. That reminded me BTW of the heroic videos from Tel Aviv as the brave IDF soldiers unleashed yet another volley of white phosphorus artillery on the dangerous Palestinian unarmed civilians. Foxtards liked that, didn’t you.

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  162. Johnboy (17,007 comments) says:

    That first image isn’t nasska lying naked on his back in his home paddock using a torch to highlight his willy is it V2? :)

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  163. nasska (11,813 comments) says:

    Late at night when the Welsh do sleep.

    Bring mouse to screen & talk of sheep!

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  164. nasska (11,813 comments) says:

    I knew I’d seen that image somewhere before JB. :)

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  165. Johnboy (17,007 comments) says:

    I’ve seen that fat tart and her sprog shopping at Countdown Wainui nasska! :)

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  166. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    War crimes Chechnya mass grave victims footage

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  167. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    nasska here’s something for you on Fukushima.

    http://enenews.com/reports-has-fukushima-radiation-entered-nzs-ecosystem-experts-agree-many-species-of-wildlife-and-fisheries-are-endangered-globally-due-to-large-release-of-radioactivity-into-ocean

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  168. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    Crimes of the Kremlin – Russia

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  169. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    Does this need explanation Shawn?

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  170. Johnboy (17,007 comments) says:

    That will make for an interesting Waitangi Tribunal case Reid.

    “Evil, colonialist, yellow, rich pricks condemn Tangata Whenua to slow death: ! :)

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  171. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    War crimes Chechnya mass grave victims footage and Crimes of the Kremlin – Russia

    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=palestinian+civilian+casualties+images&num=100&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=A3c6U_aUEY7QkQWIl4CIDw&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1422&bih=1067&dpr=0.9

    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=iraq+civilian+casualties+images&num=100&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YXc6U5GOCsjakAWXgYGQBA&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1422&bih=1067&dpr=0.9

    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=afghanistan+civilian+casualties+images&num=100&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=hHc6U–BF8vTkgWTz4GQAw&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1422&bih=1067&dpr=0.9

    etc.

    “Evil, colonialist, yellow, rich pricks condemn Tangata Whenua to slow death: !

    Exactly Johnboy, and they’re weally weally wacist as I understand it. Let’s hope Hone gets all angry and challenges the local sumo champion to a cage fight or something. I wouldn’t be surprised, especially with Annette egging him on.

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  172. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    Revealed: Russia’s worst war crime in Chechnya

    Vladimir Putin is the new hero of Russian democracy, courted by Western leaders. He is also responsible for one of the most savage atrocities since the Second World War. John Sweeney is the first journalist to reach the devastated village of Katyr Yurt, where 363 people were slaughtered by Russian forces”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/mar/05/russia.chechnya

    “Why would anyone believe a link from a Foxtard Shawn and I see Andrei’s already corrected you anyway. ”

    He watched one out of a playlist. Very conveniant.

    Reid your always wanking on about “evidence” and “facts” but clearly only see what you want to see.

    The list of war crimes under Putin, including against his own people, is extensive and well documented. Yet you want us to believe he’s a hero above reproach, while banging on about Israel.

    Yet the brave Russian army (yeah right) is guilty of horrific war crimes in Georgia and especially Chechnya.

    Face it Reid, your a hypocrite who only sees what you want to see.

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  173. nasska (11,813 comments) says:

    Reid

    Thanks. A link from that page led to an article on the physical condition of migratory birds returning from the Northern Hemisphere.

    Ref: http://enenews.com/unusual-event-birds-returning-fukushima-area-troubling-symptoms-ive-never-birds-poor-condition-new-zealand-appear-able-find-food-north-pacific

    It doesn’t look good.

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  174. Johnboy (17,007 comments) says:

    Weren’t Ngapuhi traditional Whale hunters once Reid? I seem to remember it from somewhere…damned Alzheimer’s. :)

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  175. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    It doesn’t look good.

    No mate. The real worry is the Western Pacific desert that mariners are reporting. What the hell are the Asians going to do if the fish supplies dry up?

    Weren’t Ngapuhi traditional Whale hunters once Reid?

    Wasn’t the bloke in Moby Dick from Ngapuhi?

    Face it Reid, your a hypocrite who only sees what you want to see.

    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=palestinian+civilian+casualties+images&num=100&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=A3c6U_aUEY7QkQWIl4CIDw&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1422&bih=1067&dpr=0.9

    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=iraq+civilian+casualties+images&num=100&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YXc6U5GOCsjakAWXgYGQBA&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1422&bih=1067&dpr=0.9

    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=afghanistan+civilian+casualties+images&num=100&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=hHc6U–BF8vTkgWTz4GQAw&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1422&bih=1067&dpr=0.9

    etc.

    Face it Shawn, you’re a hypocrite who can’t punctuate properly and who only sees what you want to see.

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  176. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    You are not doing very well tonight Shawn

    Revealed: Russia’s worst war crime in Chechnya

    That link dates back to the second Chechen war and before Vladimir Putin became President.

    Vladimir Putin ended the second Chechen war a very long time ago.

    And I watched the first video in your playlist, saw how badly the compiler had screwed up, laughed and moved on

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  177. Johnboy (17,007 comments) says:

    He does bear a striking resemblance to Hone come to think of it Reid! :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Queequeg.JPG

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  178. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    Palestinian Crimes against Christian Arabs and Their Manipulation against Israel

    http://jcpa.org/article/palestinian-crimes-against-christian-arabs-and-their-manipulation-against-israel/

    Critics of Israel Silent as Arabs Starve Palestinians

    http://www.the-american-interest.com/blog/2014/01/15/critics-of-israel-silent-as-arabs-starve-palestinians/

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  179. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    “Vladimir Putin ended the second Chechen war a very long time ago.”

    So Chechnya is a free and independent country now?

    RUSSIAN TERROR IN CHECHNYA

    http://www.russian-terror-in–chechnya.blogspot.co.nz/

    Take a look at these pictures and see what Russia did to “end” the war.

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  180. cha (4,084 comments) says:

    Is the semi-literate cretin back?.

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  181. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Ever shot a sight v2?

    Computed one to a 5nm position on a chart

    Navigated across the 1600 km of leaving Erewhon and back

    Seen the green flash

    Nights on end alone with the whole sky

    No other lights stronger than the end of your salty damp ciggy.

    The faint background glow of the subdued electronics in the closed wheel house.

    Glimpsed thought the top of shutters

    Phosphorescence in the wake

    All else is gone no reference point.save the huge black clear bowl of steady lights that almost surrounds you

    And the living craeck grone and flutter of the contraptions that power you?

    Once you have lived that a movie loses its charms.

    So does culture.

    :lol:

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  182. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    A question to throw out for consideration related to Fukushima.

    Why has China built all those empty cities? As in, not just one or two buildings, but entire cities that are completely empty?

    Tokyo is around 80km from Fukushima.

    If they can’t contain Fukushima and the radiation gets into the water table they will certainly have to evacuate Tokyo and they may have to evacuate Northern Japan.

    Where are they going to go?

    And if in years to come they do move into those currently empty cities, how did they know to build them before Fukushima even happened?

    It may or may not happen, I’m not saying it will and I’m not saying it won’t. I’m merely pointing to a possible future that may eventuate given what we know about current circumstances in Fukushima.

    BTW, gaggles of galloping morons need not address the question since they’ll get it wrong and hallucinate something entirely different to the words I just used and I can’t be arsed reiterating what I just said simply because some people can’t think straight because their tummies hurt.

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  183. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    The Putin Murders

    http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/putinmurders/

    Rape and Other War Crimes in Chechnya: Is There a Role for the International Criminal Court?

    https://pi.library.yorku.ca/ojs/index.php/soi/article/view/8002/7153

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  184. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    Shawn Mate, Vladimir Putin doesn’t start wars, he doesn’t go around bombing other countries or his own

    He inherited the second Chechen war and ended it

    He has dealt with a low level Islamic insurgency in the North Caucasus, kept a lid on it for years.

    He dealt with Georgia when they launched an unprovoked, surprise, attack on South Ossetia in 2008

    and thats it.

    How many Countries has the USA Bombed in that time – Afghanistan and Iraq for starters, and then there’s Yemen and Libya as well as drone strikes in Pakistan just from the top of my head – there’s probably more but you get the picture?

    Get a grip

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  185. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    “Vladimir Putin doesn’t start wars.”

    he just did with the Ukraine. Russia had zero legal right to invade Crimea. Your Putin colored glasses are showing.

    “He inherited the second Chechen war and ended it”

    He “ended it” by a massive military campaign that involved horrific crimes against women and children.

    “an unprovoked, surprise, attack on South Ossetia in 2008″

    Which was part of Georgia not Russia, and Russia was backing separatists who were carrying out attacks against ethnic Georgians.

    He has had political enemies imprisoned on trumped up charges and had others murdered.

    Putin is a dangerous Neo-Soviet imperialist backed by Russian fascists close to the Kremlin and he is placing the world at risk with his Nazi style notions of uniting all ethnic Russians under one empire.

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  186. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Why build shadow city’s capable of taking large numbers of refuges from any source the regime values?

    difficult try to second guess chunks unless you know them well

    I only know chines well enough to understand why they were called inscrutable.

    There are very different cultural tensions at work in the chinese cultures and across asia .

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  187. ShawnLH (5,758 comments) says:

    PUTIN, THE WAR CRIMINAL

    “According to international law, Putin is already a war criminal. As Russian president, he committed the crime of aggression described in Resolution 3314, which the UN adopted in 1974. In it, aggression is defined not just by military invasion, but also by blocking maritime ports, sending irregular troops or mercenaries to run military operations against another country, and using armed forces in another country contrary to any agreement regulating their presence there.

    Public servants entangled in decision-making processes or the execution of orders are also guilty of crimes against peace. That includes Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, Russian Foreign Affairs Minister Sergei Lavrov, high-ranking military officers, ambassadors, and even civilians such as businessmen and opinion leaders, if they have supported Putin’s interference in Ukraine.

    In another words, the war criminals are the very Russians with whom the West must negotiate with to quell this conflict. But for the sake of a bigger and more important cause, their sins must remain an open secret. Negotiations with criminals are always a moral hazard.

    For hundreds of years the world has been making small steps towards more civilized relations between countries. It has been replacing military conflict with legal ones, and conditioning the use of force on approval from the international community. If Putin was and is genuinely concerned about the Russian minority in Ukraine, he could have chosen from legal ways to claim their rights. But he didn’t even try. ”

    http://www.worldcrunch.com/ukraine-winter/we-will-all-pay-for-crimea-except-for-the-war-criminals/poland-russia-ukraine-crimea-vladimir-putin-/c20s15277/

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