General Debate 21 April 2014

April 21st, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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283 Responses to “General Debate 21 April 2014”

  1. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    What is Prasad waffling on about? Lawson has no convictions for drugs, and Labour support a self-confessed drug user as a caucus member.
    Good to hear some sense coming from Turia, causing Jones to come out snorting like a buffoon (is he trying to upstage Cosgrove?) using Horomia’s death to try and stimulate a bit more traction for himself. Labour did nothing for Maori in 9 years, yet they, like their supporters, have a sense of entitlement, in this instance, expecting Maori votes.
    Has the obese German criminal slug been returned to the States yet? Don’t let the scumbag off the hook!
    What is mayor Lecher Len of Auckland Labour infamy up to? Hope he is not being left alone to further screw the ratepayers . . . appeasing his foul, envious, and evil supporters.

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  2. lilman (960 comments) says:

    Ugly truth, …………..No,I just cant be bothered.

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  3. dog_eat_dog (781 comments) says:

    I’m sure attacking a battered wife is exactly what Prasad thinks Labour needs to turn around a 20 point polling deficit.

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  4. big bruv (13,923 comments) says:

    So Cuntliffe attended a Samoan church service.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9961774/Cunliffe-goes-to-Samoan-Easter-service

    I do hope somebody has the audio of his speech, I would love to know what accent he used when addressing the crowd, did he use his time honoured “bro” accent as per his last visit down south?

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  5. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Prasad on Lawson – Nigella’s visa clearance for new choc ad worries Labour

    Labour Party immigration spokesman Rajen Prasad says he would be concerned if British television cook Nigella Lawson was given an exemption to come to New Zealand solely because of her celebrity status, while other people in more need were being rejected.

    Immigration New Zealand has given Lawson permission to visit next month even though the United States refused to let her travel there this year because she had admitted during the fraud trial of two former staff that she had taken cocaine.

    Although she had no convictions, Lawson was ineligible for a New Zealand visa because the United States had refused her entry, so a discretionary “special direction” was required for her to enter New Zealand next month to film another advertisement for Whittaker’s chocolate.

    Dr Prasad said that as a general rule he did not believe people who abused drugs should be given entry, but there should be discretion to allow it in special circumstances and he assumed Immigration New Zealand gave Lawson’s case careful consideration.

    “I hope it’s not simply been given because Nigella is a celebrity, and she was subject to the same rules as others are. But if special circumstances are present, I accept that.”

    However, he said, he was concerned about consistency.

    I’m not sure what danger Lawson would be to us if she came here. Is Prasad worried about her promoting the use of drugs in chocolate. There are a number of potential dangers.

    Negative

    – Chocolate is believed to cause heartburn because of one of its constituents, theobromine, relaxes the oesophageal sphincter muscle, hence permitting stomach acidic contents to enter into the oesophagus.[76] Theobromine is also toxic to many animals because they are unable to metabolize it (see theobromine poisoning).

    – The unconstrained consumption of large quantities of any energy-rich food, such as chocolate, without a corresponding increase in activity, increases the risk of obesity. Raw chocolate is high in cocoa butter, a fat which is removed during chocolate refining, then added back in varying proportions during the manufacturing process. Manufacturers may add other fats, sugars, and milk as well, all of which increase the caloric content of chocolate.

    – Chocolate and cocoa contain moderate to high amounts of oxalate, which can cause some health concerns particularly for individuals at risk for kidney stones.

    – Chocolate absorbs lead from the environment during production, and there is a slight concern of mild lead poisoning for some types of chocolate.

    – Research on elderly people showed chocolate might cause osteoporosis.

    – A few studies have documented allergic reactions with chocolate in children.

    – There is some evidence that chocolate may be addictive.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocolate#Health_effects

    If Prasad wants consistency perhaps he could try banning Easter.

    But I quite like the consistency of chocolate. That reminds me, there’s some eggs left over from yesterday.

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  6. holysheet (397 comments) says:

    Whats happening in the world of NZ politics, when two of the least favoured politicians start talking sense. I am referring to Sue bradford and her stance of opposing crim.com and the mana party union, and yesterday Tarina and her explanation of her thinking about the maori party and the reasons why she thinks its good to be with National in govt.

    It was enlightening to hear her comments about politicians not doing what is right for the country, but only doing what is right to keep them getting elected. Maybe this is why John Key is so popular. Some of the tough decisions they have made in the past 5 years have been seen by the general public as being the right ones for the country and not necessarily for the good of National.

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  7. Grant (444 comments) says:

    Is Prasad worried about the Rolling Stones turning up here later in the year too? Surely after Mick’s convictions, (1967 and 1970), he must have had to get a special visa?

    Labour: Focusing on the things that really matter as usual.
    G

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  8. Chuck Bird (4,895 comments) says:

    “Some of the tough decisions they have made in the past 5 years have been seen by the general public as being the right ones for the country and not necessarily for the good of National.”

    Name some please.

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  9. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    BB: That clip sure shows the envy and feeling of inferiority that corrupts the left-wing mindset. Cunliffe is nothing but a charlatan, and there is more of this type of crap to come, they have nothing to offer, other than try to gain traction on the back of JK’s abilities and success. Key had a damn sight less breaks in early life than Cunliffe, after all, being the son of a clergyman, “Tojo” really represents the Labour secular doctrine, along with his million dollar mansion, and being to the forefront in setting up of Fonterra, along with his voluntary work with Forest and Bird, and his helping out at soup kitchens. Yeh Right!

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  10. Nostalgia-NZ (5,218 comments) says:

    Tarina’s comments run deep concerning Labour and is the reason why I am surprised KIA’s analysis of Labour’s problems didn’t take into account that the MP has supported National in 2 Governments at least partly because of the patronising attitude of Helen Clark toward them during her reign. John Key saw that early on and turned it to the Nat’s favour – he is doing the same with the PI vote. It’s a long way back for Labour on this and it doesn’t appear they have the leadership to make a reconciliation of any sort work at this time. It should also be noted that Tarina was clear that in her view the Maori Party would always take the opportunity to be in Government rather than opposition.

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  11. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Cb: The latest for starters . . . stopping leeching lefties sponging in State houses for life, at the expense of taxpayers.

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  12. holysheet (397 comments) says:

    Refusing to jump into bed with winston first.
    Taking the maori party with him into Govt (knowing full well that this would get all you rednecks up in arms against this decision)

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  13. flipper (4,077 comments) says:

    Labour is promoting an ersatz kerfuffle over Lord Lawsons daughter.

    BUT Sometimes life really is quite straight forward——–

    [(Pix - skin, withered, and bone )]
    This woman is 53 years old.
    She is TV health guru Gillian McKeith, advocating a holistic approach to nutrition and health,and promoting exercise, a vegetarian diet that is high in organic fruits and vegetables. She recommends detox diets, colonic irrigation, and supplements.

    [ Pix, A beauty that will grace any man's arm :-) ]

    This woman is also 53.
    She is Nigella Lawson… a TV cook, who eats meat, butter, and desserts…
    and she washes it all down with wine!

    I wonder whether the comparison with some of labour’s beauties is the real problem….

    So ….
    Without apology for any offence, I REST MY CASE.

    (PS have failed to post the pix, bugger, but help welcome)

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  14. OneTrack (3,111 comments) says:

    Grant – “Labour: Focusing on the things that really matter as usual.”

    They have nothing else. Coherent policies? Pfffft. They are focusing on people coming to NZ to help sell (kiwi) chocolate and saving the public from the usurious costs of registering a trailer. These two policies alone will have the lost voters storming the voting booths.

    Prasad seems more upset that she’s a celebrity. Presumably he would be welcoming any unemployed loser with a drug conviction (which Lawson doesn’t have) into the country when Labour gain the treasury benches.

    Will NZ survive these numpties in government?

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  15. Chuck Bird (4,895 comments) says:

    “Cb: The latest for starters . . . stopping leeching lefties sponging in State houses for life, at the expense of taxpayers.”

    You think that National polling does not show that they will win more votes than they will lose.

    @holysheet

    National calculated taking that stance would help put NZF below 5%. They were correct. Key seems to have changed his position as it looks NZF is likely to get over 5%.

    Taking the Maori Party on was to reduce the influence of ACT particularly with Douglas being and ACT MP. Key did a flip flop on National’s long standing policy on Maori seats so he had two parties he could go to for support copying what Clark did with NZF and the Greens.

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  16. wiseowl (899 comments) says:

    There should be no Maori Party.

    National have only gone with the racist party for power, certainly not in the best interests of this fine country.
    My people have had enough and the sooner race based seats are removed the better.

    How many people have resigned from the United Joke Party over Dunnes stand on ‘legal highs’. Enough to warrant another membership count to make sure they exist?

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  17. OneTrack (3,111 comments) says:

    CB – “Name some please”

    90 days trial.- gets young employees a chance in the workplace
    3 strikes – keeps bad bastards off the street and families safer
    asset sales – Less overseas borrowing, no need for government to own four power companies ( unless you are an idealogue socialist/communist)
    Tiwai Point – Saved jobs, kept Rio in NZ and maybe conditions will improve so they stay longer, sold more Manapouri power to them
    Sky City – Free conference center for Auckland with only theoretical negatives which dont stand realistic evaluation

    Need I go on? Go for a Green/Labour taniwha and all of those will be gone.

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  18. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Dunne’s views on cannabis have been well known for yonks so I doubt it will make any difference now.

    Patrick Gower asked a number of MPs from various parties on Thursday if they would vote to decriminalise cannabis.

    National 1 maybe, 4 no, 2 avoided question.

    Labour 1 probably not, 1 would consider it.

    Greens 3 yes

    NZ First 2 avoided answering.

    MPs on cannabis

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  19. OneTrack (3,111 comments) says:

    wiseowl – “My people have had enough and the sooner race based seats are removed the better.”

    Unfortunately, we have two classes of people – maori and tauiwi. And tauiwi dont count. The racist seats aren’t going anywhere. The elite won’t allow it.

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  20. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/17/911-court-guantanamo-bay-adjourn-trial-june-fbi-spying

    The 9/11 military tribunal in Guantánamo Bay was adjourned until June on Thursday, derailed by an attempt by the Federal Bureau of Investigation to turn a classification specialist on the defendants’ legal teams into an informant.

    ….

    On 6 April, two FBI agents approached a classification adviser for Bin al-Shibh’s defense team and compelled him to sign a document, along with a nondisclosure agreement, indicating an ongoing role informing on the legal team.

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  21. kowtow (8,512 comments) says:

    Strange how certain MPs are so adamantly anti tobacco and yet they are vehemently pro cannabis,doesn’t make any sense at all.

    Talking of tobacco.It is appalling that National ,a supposedly pro business party can support the Maori Party in its assault on private property rights.

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  22. Chuck Bird (4,895 comments) says:

    @Wiseowl

    I think you have a point on asset sales. That may have cost National swinging votes.

    I know National does a lot of internal polling that targets swinging votes. They would be very careful pushing too many policies that would cost more votes thatn they would gain.

    You said, “The elite won’t allow it.” Which elite would not allow it? If Don Brash had of got in in 2005 it would have happened.

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  23. kowtow (8,512 comments) says:

    One track

    re asset sales .That’s an own goal. Notional still own ‘em.

    I’d say it’s socialist for the gummint to own 51% of those power cos,wouldn’t you?

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  24. stigie (1,219 comments) says:

    This piece from Lilman late last night sums it up really ! Hope it wont offend.

    “Ugly WANKER, Truth,lol, you can’t steal a service?
    Tell that to a taxi driver,
    Tell that to a ISP.
    Tell that anyone who has a business providing services.
    In fact if I didn’t pay your wife for her services she performed on my neighbours goat last week I would think as you are pimping her out you would consider that theft?
    Me I would call it animal abuse.”

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  25. kowtow (8,512 comments) says:

    Media acting as anti National propaganda machine.

    I was genuinely shocked by the TVNZ 1 coverage of the new state housing policy.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/housing-nz-changes-worry-country-s-most-vulnerable-5936886/video

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  26. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    stigie, go fuck yourself.

    Stealing, or theft, involves depriving the owner of his possession of his property.

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  27. kowtow (8,512 comments) says:

    Much and all as I think UT is a nutter that piece sums lilman up to a tee.

    Remember lilman said he /she would be happy to shake the hand of Mountbatten’s murderer.

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  28. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yes, lilman is one of Kiwiblog’s nastier specimens.

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  29. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    What the smart money is doing in Asia and the US. Take note. Personally for the last six months I’ve been in the process of liquidating everything and buying silver and gold bullion, not certificates. Platinum is a good buy too, not least because it’s used as a membrane in hydrogen fuel cells which are the better long term transport alternative to stored electric because its constant and doesn’t require recharge stations every 100 or so kms. (A fuel cell strips an electron from the water molecule and uses that to power the motor, it doesn’t extract the hydrogen and burn it.) Coltan is a good buy as well because its used in cellphone aerials but as a Christian I don’t touch it because its extracted from places like the Congo and the PTB generate wars to get their hands on it so its like the blood diamonds, to me. OTY but the economic and military clouds that are coalescing are the blackest I’ve ever seen and once they start it will be too late. Just don’t be in debt, if you can help it.

    http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/prelude-to-economic-disaster-billionaire-liquidates-all-real-estate-ahead-of-crash_04182014

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  30. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Aw, you’re a gold bug as well. Nice. And are you into doomsday prepping as well?

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  31. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Falsely accusing people of stealing goes on quite a lot, especially within the copyright industry.

    From Blacks 5th edition:

    Steal. This term is commonly used in indictments for larceny (“take, steal, and carry· away”), and denotes the commission of theft, that is, the felonious taking and carrying away of the personal property of another, and without right and without leave or consent of owner, and with intent to keep or make use wrongfully.

    Property. That which is peculiar or proper to any person; that which belongs exclusively to one … The term is said to extend to every species of valuable right and interest. More specifically, ownership; the unrestricted and exclusive right to a thing; the right to dispose of a thing in every legal way, to possess it, to use it, and to exclude
    every one else from interfering with it.

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  32. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ugly is right for once (stopped clock). Copyright violation is technically not theft. Still illegal of course, but not theft per se.

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  33. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    When was the last time you proved me wrong about anything, mikenmild?

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  34. tvb (4,430 comments) says:

    If the Maori Party did not support National it would have give National a clear run to abolish the Maori seats which is national party policy.

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  35. Steve (North Shore) (4,564 comments) says:

    Asset sales. The Governments job is to Govern, not to be in business. The reason lefties do not want assets sold is because they are a cash cow for electioneering. National finance their own – Labour/Green are broke and always will be because the know nothing other than ‘Tax and spend’

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  36. minus (201 comments) says:

    Labour policies so far … THE CUNNING-LIST …
    Or, what you get by scrapping the bottom of the barrel to start with –

    • $60 a week for children under 3 years UNLESS the parents are already taking advantage of the extended maternity leave, BUT THEN NOT ACTUALLY BEING AVAILABLE TO ANY CHILD BORN BEFORE APRIL 1, 2016 – the date that was missed because everyone was arguing about the first details.

    • Trucks to keep left – as they in fact did last time drivers protested over some fucking forgotten problem – and reduce caravan registrations, increases numbers to slow holiday traffic to below the most extravagant Police dreams.

    • Employ drug hung-over beneficiaries in forestry – the most dangerous occupation in New Zealand – despite processed timber not being what the world wants, as it would dent the market where China takes our timber, manufactures it into finished furniture and returns it to our shores for less than 20% the cost of locally made furniture.

    • “Despite Penny Bright” policy –
    Stamp out corruption like that exemplified by Judith Collins, whatever it was she did whenever it was with whomsoever, and as private it was, because she might be leader someday after John Key, if we can get rid of him by associating him somehow with whatever it was that Judith obviously did.

    • Although she has no convictions, Labour opposes issuing Nigella Lawson a New Zealand visa required for her to enter New Zealand next month to film another advertisement for Whittaker’s chocolate. Besides going fucking mental over anything connected to the film industry, in view of her last ad for 18 macron chocolate, Labour is beside themselves with jealousy over Nigella Lawson selling something you can see, but can’t see what it is made out of.

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  37. Chuck Bird (4,895 comments) says:

    “If the Maori Party did not support National it would have give National a clear run to abolish the Maori seats which is national party policy.”

    @tvb

    Do you mean is or was National Party policy?

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  38. David Garrett (7,311 comments) says:

    I was shocked this am to see pics on the Stuff website of a long queue of people waiting to get their fix – as the article put it – from a legal high shop which had been closed for the weekend…I have read all the arguments pro and con this issue..and I remain profoundly disturbed by the current position..

    Everything I read suggests this fake cannabis is significantly more dangerous than the natural stuff…and I have long since come to the view that it is not the harmless drug we all happily puffed on 30 years ago…

    I’m buggered if I know the answer…prohibition of anything has never worked very well…but as the father of pre-teen kids, I am very unhappy about this shit being available as if it was lollies…and we banned “Spaceman” cigarettes FFS because they were deemed likely to encourage kids to smoke the real ones..

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  39. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Legalise it all, DG. Surest way to control harm. Added bonus of making room in jail for the real criminals.

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  40. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/19/359181/ukraine-jew-registration-hoax-traced/

    From Gordon Duff:

    Anonymous Ukraine, the group that intercepted emails outlining false flag terror attack plans made by the US Embassy in Kiev in March, has done it again. Emails intercepted between Washington DC offices tied to the Anti-Defamation League sent to neo-Nazi extremists in the Ukraine were the sources of the outrageous materials.
    Earlier intercepted emails outlined plans for an attack on Melitopol Airport scheduled for March 10, 2014. When those plans and the attached maps showing where explosives were to be planted were leaked, the planned attack failed to materialize.
    Those emails showed direct ties between the US State Department and terrorist groups within the Ukrainian military. According to Anonymous, the current intercepted emails included several attachments, each different version of the anti-Semitic leaflets passed out in the pro-Russian Eastern Ukraine, particularly in the city on Donetsk.
    Representatives of separatist groups reputed to have issued the edicts not only denied any involvement but pointed out that the documents themselves were photoshopped and included seals from the previous government and imaginary titles for offices that simply don’t exist.

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  41. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ha ha, Press TV.

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  42. David Garrett (7,311 comments) says:

    Mikey: Yes, I completely “get” the arguments about legalisation of everything…I have no idea how old you are or whether you have kids…but I urge you to take a look at the “Stuff” article (it’s on the front page) and tell me you are not uncomfortable with what you read and see…

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  43. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    but as the father of pre-teen kids, I am very unhappy about this shit being available as if it was lollies

    So do the research, sit your kids down and tell them the truth about the risks.

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  44. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    David – that’s just the predictable outcome of inconsistent regulation of such substances. People are going to get their fixes of whatever, wherever.

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  45. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ha ha, Press TV.

    It fits the pattern of US involvement in destabilizing the Ukraine: Victoria Nuland’s imperious attitude, and the lies about the visit to the Ukraine by the director of the CIA.

    Not Ukraine but the implication of the US secretary of state in a planned Turkish false flag (on the Suleiman Shah Tomb) also affects Russian security interests.

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  46. MT_Tinman (3,202 comments) says:

    DG, while I agree the picture and story is disturbing it disturbs me for another reason.

    That reason is why. Why would people queue for such a product?

    When we already have alcohol and (if it’s anything like when I was younger) cannabis is easily obtained if you look for it why do people need to queue for this stuff?

    Has the we-need-to-tell-you-what-to-do crowd been so successful young (it’s almost always the young) people now are unwilling to use the legal (and semi-legal) avenues for relaxing previous generations have?

    Has the government-led anti-fun campaign of the last 20 years caused a serious crisis?

    Is this yet another example of the old adage Every government action has an equal and opposite reaction. ?

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  47. DJP6-25 (1,388 comments) says:

    flipper 9.01 AM. You’re not wrong.

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  48. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    I thought this was funny, tee-hee,

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11241513

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  49. EAD (1,128 comments) says:

    @ Reid @ 9.48am – good article, thanks for posting.

    For anyone who has dealt with the Li’s know they take corruption including random internal fire drills at Hutchinson to an extreme level. I suspect he more likely recognises that over 80% of Chinese “industry” is based on using duress labour by communist unions plus grey market part fabrication from stolen Russian/American blueprints to generate mass inventory dumping zones. Since the world no longer needs 3 million Nike or Adidas shoes per day the whole inventory repo ponzi is going to start to implode soon, starting with the upstream rubber/silicon/base metal producers.

    If we use an overlay similar to when the repo-produce for quota model imploded in the USSR, China is going to get very ugly, very fast. China since 1400 has had a problem with taking blame for their actions, and is famous for throwing their most prominent thinkers under the bus to placate the peons in the fields. Li I suspect is doing what a long list of oligarchs tend to do when the winds are moving towards rent seeking & fear, step back. Li also has recently come under fire as not a true “Chinese” due to his location in HK and that alone would make him a strong target for being strung up vs. one of the princelings closer to the Politburo, like the Mao or Zhang children.

    Or maybe he just wants to go all in on Xero or Wynyard Group, because those guys clearly have 300% year on year growth according to their “fundamentals”.

    Me – I cashed out of the paper ponzi fully 3 months ago, hold no debt, and have exposure to the precious metals as I believe we are in the early stages of a an economic correction (trying not frighten the horses by being sanguine) that will reveal the extent of the mal-investments caused by the Central Banks and their global artificially cheap credit and their debt-as-money system collapses under it’s own weight.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-20/madness

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  50. eszett (2,417 comments) says:

    David Garrett (5,133 comments) says:
    April 21st, 2014 at 10:29 am
    Mikey: Yes, I completely “get” the arguments about legalisation of everything…I have no idea how old you are or whether you have kids…but I urge you to take a look at the “Stuff” article (it’s on the front page) and tell me you are not uncomfortable with what you read and see…

    David, imagine the length of the queue if there was only one alcohol outlet in Palmy (or anywhere else for that matter)?

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  51. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Yes, I completely “get” the arguments about legalisation of everything

    So what’s the alternative then David. To summarise for those unaware of the arguments, legalising removes the revenue from the criminals which destroys their profit base which destroys their ability to organise and attract recruits. Secondly it allows the issue to become one of public education and health, rather than what it currently is, whereby people who comply with the law in all other areas of their life are forced to come into contact with criminals to get what they want.

    Those are very powerful arguments especially in light of the reality that even with all the forces at our disposal in surveillance and border and police yet still, the dyke cannot be plugged. There has never been a time in history when people have been unable to obtain drugs. Never. So why do we keep insisting on attempting more and more and more of the same proven to have failed model?

    When you boil it down it seems to me the only arguments proponents of the current regime have are emotive, such as you just raised David, your parental fear. While understandable, none of these to me are logical, given that the cold hard reality is we’ve had how long now to try the criminalisation route, and it hasn’t made a jot of difference, apart from facilitating organised crime.

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  52. DJP6-25 (1,388 comments) says:

    David Garret 10.29 AM. Yes, just because legalization is a good idea, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a down side. Not easy to sell to fellow cabinet members, focus groups, and middle class voters I’d guess.

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  53. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    Although I’m a big Nigella fan, if the reason she is coming here is to promote Whittakers chocolate then I’d prefer it if she was banned. I’m not a fan. And that Whittakers L&P flavoured chocolate is horrible!!

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  54. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The final kick came with the legislation called “The Marijuana Tax Act of 1937.” It virtually breezed through Congress with the strangled voices of hemp growers and the American Medical Association watching helplessly on the sidelines. Strange to find out now that Anslinger was then in charge of the Treasury Department, who owed his job to his relation Andrew Mellon, owner of the sixth largest bank in our great nation, and just happened to be the Du Pont banker.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/reefer-madness-du-pont-and-the-marihuana-tax-act-of-1937

    1925: Andrew Mellon becomes US Treasurer. The USPHS is under the direct jurisdiction of the Department of the Treasury. Andrew Mellon was a founder and major stockholder of Alcoa, the main producer of toxic fluoride waste materials. During the 1920s there was growing concern abroad, and in our own Department of Agriculture and Bureau of Mines over fluoride as a public hazard – but not in the Public Health Service. During this decade, no mention of fluoride can be found in the official USPHS publication, Public Health Reports. Also in 1925, the Mellon Institute was founded by Andrew and Richard Mellon, former owners of Alcoa.

    http://www.zerowasteamerica.org/fluoridechronology.htm

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  55. David Garrett (7,311 comments) says:

    Ugly: thats a good idea…do you recall listening to your father about the dangers of “drugs” and then following his advice? I certainly never did…I mocked him as I expect my children to mock me…

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  56. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Or maybe he just wants to go all in on Xero Wynyard Group, because those guys clearly have 300% year on year growth according to their “fundamentals”.

    Yeah both the Xero and the TPP strategy is going to fall apart once the US implodes – shame the sheeple don’t see it. You have to wonder how obvious it’s got to get before they arouse themselves from slumber.

    The issue to me EAD is the war option is the only one the US has left: hence Ukraine. While Putin is playing it masterfully those of us with eyes can see its a zero-sum game and given Putin is NWO same as the rest of them, I have a feeling we’re watching another punch and judy production played out for the children, just that this time, with real nukes. As I’ve said before, the WWIII scenario is it starts with nukes and we could well be looking at that, right now.

    Meanwhile with China the govt can’t afford to let the economy tank because it’s the only thing which keeps the one-party system in place. If that ever goes to 1-2% GDP growth or even negative, the people will demand an end to it and they won’t be denied. Which leaves the war scenario as the only option for China as well.

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  57. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Still prayin’ hard for an end times nuclear war Reid? Does it help to be stoned when you read Revelations?

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  58. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    David, did you father actually research the subject or did he just tell you what he thought you should do? If your kids mock you for telling them the truth then you’ve got bigger problems then illicit drugs IMO.

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  59. dog_eat_dog (781 comments) says:

    I dunno DG, I listened to my parents about drugs – God knows I didn’t need any more problems growing up – but the point is that some people don’t even feel they should try to talk to their kids about these things – the state should do it all for them.

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  60. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Still prayin’ hard for an end times nuclear war Reid?

    There’s a difference between recognising a potential reality and wishing for it mm. But that’s a distinction I’m not surprised you’re incapable of drawing, given your demonstrated powers of reasoning to date on here.

    David, did you father actually research the subject or did he just tell you what he thought you should do?

    Just show them some images and videos of Krokodil if you want to put them off it.

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  61. kowtow (8,512 comments) says:

    You can sit your kids down and tell them all you want.

    Problem is there’s a huge industry out there,selling this shit.Be it heroin,cocaine,cannabis whatever to our society .

    That used to be the counter culture…..fucking drop out hippies and drugged up “musicians” as well as media glorified excluded oppressed ‘minorities”.

    The music industry still pushes heavily but now Hollywood as well as probably most western entertainment industry is hard behind it too.

    Now enter the former hippies onto the political scene ,the Greens. They push it too.Think Nandor Tandie.

    In the US Mr “Choom Gang” excluded minority oppressed Kenyan Obongo and his Attorney General, who oppose states rights in respect of illegal immigration,supports states rights to sell poison to citizens.

    So don’t tell me that a father or single mother can easily ‘talk” or educate their children in the right way in the face of that huge tide of cultural marxism.

    And if it were so harmless ,why the need to educate at all?

    The pro cannabis lobby is part of the war on the west and legalisation is treachery.

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  62. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    When we already have alcohol and (if it’s anything like when I was younger) cannabis is easily obtained if you look for it why do people need to queue for this stuff?

    Alcohol effects are very different.

    Amongst reasons given for ‘queuing’ for legal highs are that there is no risk of being arrested or getting a conviction, and they don’t have to go to shady tinny houses and deal with gangs.

    People (many people) will seek drugs to get quick thrills regardless of what we do with trying to control supply and laws. We’re far better off managing the reality as best we can rather than pretend we can stop drug use.

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  63. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Still using ridicule to divert attention away from unpleasant realities, mikenmild?

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  64. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    China seems to be spying on Chinese students in Australia.

    If this is true, can Chinese students in NZ be safe from Beijing spies?

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/chinese-spies-at-sydney-university-20140420-36ywk.html

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  65. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Re synthetic cannabis, Peter Dunne, and Pete George’s posts on this:

    Let’s make it an election issue, eh?

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  66. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Great to see the Easter Egg Drop in Manukau went well. Kind of telling that these same people that are willing to steal eggs off children and even put some children in hospital are also the ones most likely to vote for Len and Labour

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  67. wiseowl (899 comments) says:

    Saw that article this am with the queue and agree with you DG.

    It is pretty sad that we have this obviously happening all around the country. Why?

    And there should be a campaign to bring back ‘spaceman’ cigarettes.I used to think they were cool.

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  68. mister nui (1,029 comments) says:

    EAD, what are you looking at as best to get into?

    I am very heavy cash (non-NZD, as I think the NZD is hugely over-valued and see we’re already having a correction in it against the AUD), with a further ~20% of my portfolio in shares, most of them bottom-drawer shares.

    I’ve been looking at Gold and Silver and the charts do nothing for me, apart from showing some residual value in Gold.

    I absolutely agree that there is going to be a mini-correction, especially here in NZ. The housing market is beyond any realms of sensibility – the eggs that keep plundering into these massive mortgages are going to take a pasting. No doubt, when they go negative equity it will be someone else’s fault, despite the fact they were the loon standing at the auction raising their hand each time the bid price went up another 50 nicker….

    It is telling that the NZ economy is moribund, as looking at the required deposit percentages for business funding, comparative to housing rates, any wonder we’re plundering our money into housing, not businesses. Banks requiring >50% deposit for a business that is providing a 25% net return!!!! Yet, you can get 900k of debt, while having 10% equity in a million dollar property, that returns nothing, but has the huge risk of going pop shortly. Somethings fucked.

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  69. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Jack5 – I have quite different views to Dunne on cannabis as I had when I was associated with UF.

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  70. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    What realities would those be Ugly? The ones in your head?

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  71. eszett (2,417 comments) says:

    kowtow (6,706 comments) says:
    April 21st, 2014 at 11:15 am
    You can sit your kids down and tell them all you want.

    Problem is there’s a huge industry out there,selling this shit.Be it heroin,cocaine,cannabis whatever to our society .

    Where’s alcohol in that list, kowtow? Why do you leave it it out?
    Is it because you enjoy your booze every now and again?

    If you put cannabis in the same category as cocaine and heroin you need to include alcohol as well.
    Otherwise you are just a hypocrite.

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  72. wat dabney (3,774 comments) says:

    The pro cannabis lobby is part of the war on the west and legalisation is treachery.

    And there was me thinking that the West – the part worth fighting for – stood for personal liberty; for freedom.

    Apparently what I do with my own body is somehow your fucking business, kowtow.

    Somehow you imagine you have the right to control other people like slaves. You believe you know what’s best for everyone else and have the right – nay, the duty – to force everyone else to comply.

    The world will never run out of Sue Bradfords; the ultimate renewable resource.

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  73. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    I’ve been looking at Gold and Silver and the charts do nothing for me, apart from showing some residual value in Gold.

    IMO they’re manipulating the gold price to keep it down nui. China has been buying it like crazy and they’re not dumb. Once the crash happens, it will go like crazy. $30,000/ounce is not out of the possible realm. Silver however has a much better multiplier plus its used all over industry.

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  74. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Reid is now showing his true colours.

    In one camp you have the fundamental Christians who support Jews, Israel etc and want to make a better world

    In the other you have Reid and his fundamental Christian doom days cohort who don’t like Jews, hate Israel and are actively trying to get the world destroyed so they can bring on the apocalypse and go to heaven.

    Hard to see the difference between the second group and Al Qaeda

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  75. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Still prayin’ hard for an end times nuclear war Reid? Does it help to be stoned when you read Revelations?

    The reality is that the symbolism of Revelation and Daniel indicates that the US is going to cease to be a major player in world affairs.

    In Daniel the lion (England) had the wings of an eagle (US), but the wings were plucked off.
    In Revelation the wings are gone, but the symbol of the lion remains as part of the beast.

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  76. mister nui (1,029 comments) says:

    they’re manipulating the gold price to keep it down

    You could be correct, hence the reason why it shows that residual value.

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  77. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    No, it indicates nothing. St John was smoking some powerful shit when he had his ‘revelation’. These texts have been reinterpreted many times throughout history to pretend that the end is nigh. It’s not happening.

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  78. mister nui (1,029 comments) says:

    and his fundamental Christian doom days cohort who don’t like Jews, hate Israel and are actively trying to get the world destroyed so they can bring on the apocalypse and go to heaven.

    Please don’t put me in that group – I couldn’t be further from that lot if I tried.

    I’m just smart with money, and want to protect what I have worked damn hard for. – The nearest I come to a conspiracy nutter is that I do not trust the banks and the big-end of town to do well with my money, which I have had success at managing well myself.

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  79. wat dabney (3,774 comments) says:

    Reid is now showing his true colours

    Sounds like his true colour is gold.

    To be honest it appears he’s too busy chasing mammon to do much else.

    Maybe he’s got Jewish blood in him?

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  80. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    It’s not happening.

    “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years”

    “Past tetrads that coincided with violent events have given rise to the outrageous Blood Moon prophecy, formed by controversial U.S. evangelist Mark Biltz who first made the claim in 2008 that this ongoing tetrad of ‘blood moons’ will bring significant changes to the world.”

    http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/jaw-dropping-apocalypse-blood-moon-still-making-waves/

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  81. holysheet (397 comments) says:

    You jafas are all arse about face in saying things like this

    “The housing market is beyond any realms of sensibility”

    What you should be saying is “The Jafa housing market is beyond any realms of sensibility”

    Apart from ChCH for the obvious reasons, the housing markets are not about to burst. Take Jafa’s out of the equation and NZ property market is just fine.

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  82. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    In the other you have Reid and his fundamental Christian doom days cohort who don’t like Jews, hate Israel and are actively trying to get the world destroyed so they can bring on the apocalypse and go to heaven.

    I don’t know how many times I’ve told you guys this but let’s try once again.

    a) I don’t hate anyone, I simply call evil when I see it and when I see evil, I hate it, not the people who are doing it.
    b) the people who rule Israel and the US are not Jews, they are people who say they are Jews but are not
    c) don’t believe me, ask all these Rabbis who say the same thing

    If by now, with the vast amount of information just a click away to an enquiring mind, you’re incapable of recognising the reality of global politics which is that you in the western world are being played like a violin, you really need to question your own intelligence because this isn’t rocket science and the reality is writ large.

    BTW, it’s the right-wing Christian zionists in the US who are praying for Israel’s destruction, and since I’m not a zionist, why would I pray for that? I merely pray that God’s will be done, in His time.

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  83. holysheet (397 comments) says:

    I love the weather this time of year. Have just been out and picked a full bucket of delicious field mushrooms. She who must be obeyed is in the kitchen cooking some for lunch. Yum

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  84. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘the people who rule Israel and the US are not Jews, they are people who say they are Jews but are not’
    This is what Reid says instead of coming clean with his anti-semitism: the people he hates are not ‘real Jews’.

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  85. stephieboy (3,154 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,055 comments) says:
    April 21st, 2014 at 10:26 am
    A closer examination of Gordon Duff’s claims in respect of Jewish connections to Ukrainian Terrorists groups and, yet another, false flag unsubstantiated allegations most revealing.. All based on some, as yet to be disclosed emails .All the allegations emanating from the Kremlin based sources like Russia Today.
    Duff is a Conpiracy Theorist bar none who runs a one man blog Vterans Today .As itt’sname might suggests representing also US veterans of foreign wars .
    Untrue .
    He is also a 9/11 no planer loon, claiming Flights 175 and 93 dud not hit their targets , flying out instead with 200 passengers and crew to to an unknown destination. somewhere out there.

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  86. wat dabney (3,774 comments) says:

    I merely pray that God’s will be done, in His time.

    I’m having trouble understanding the size of someone’s vanity and ego that they could ever say something like that.

    Still, I’m sure Yahweh appreciates your support, for when he suffers those nagging self-doubts.

    ‘Oh. Well if Reid thinks it’s okay…Maybe I will kill some more children…”

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  87. RichardX (326 comments) says:

    Reid (15,537 comments) says:
    April 21st, 2014 at 12:12 pm
    I merely pray that God’s will be done, in His time.

    Does this prayer help god or help you?

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  88. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    He is also a 9/11 no planer loon, claiming Flights 175 and 93 dud not hit their targets , flying out instead with 200 passengers and crew to to an unknown destination. somewhere out there.

    That isn’t the “no planes” theory, that theory is that no planes flew into the twin towers. The theory is shite because of all the witnesses on the ground who could see the holes in the buildings where the planes flew in.

    Duff”s claim that Flights 175 and 93 did not hit their targets is part of an early “bumblebee” theory that the airliners were swapped out with remote controlled planes. Support for this theory is the long flight paths of the planes which took them out of radar coverage, theoretically so that the transponders could be turned off when transponders of the remote controlled ones were turned on.

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  89. Fletch (6,407 comments) says:

    The Democrats in the U.S attempting to skirt the Constitution again by changing election rules to end the role of the Electoral College in the elections, and base it on popular vote alone

    Conservatives and leading liberals slammed the campaign to effectively end the Electoral College’s role in presidential elections, saying that the National Popular Vote Compact Law circumvents the Constitution, saying it resembled President Barack Obama’s abuse of the law through his extensive use of executive orders.

    “It is pretty startling,” Bill Kristol, founder and editor of The Weekly Standard, told “The Steve Malzberg Show” on Newsmax TV this week. “If they want to make the case for the popular election of presidents and a Constitutional amendment, they should make the case.

    “But the left these days doesn’t make the case, and they don’t go the normal route of changing the law if they don’t like the law,” Kristol added. “They think of gimmicks and evasions and ways to get around the normal popular debate.

    “This is all happening kind of quietly. I’m really struck by the way they’re doing it.”

    Under the National Popular Vote Compact, each state would award its electoral votes to the presidential candidate who wins the national popular vote. The effort has been quietly winding its way through state governments, needing 270 votes to take effect.

    Once states with electoral votes totaling the magic 270 – the number a presidential candidate needs to becomes president – pass the law, it immediately takes effect. The new law would mandate that each of the states in the compact must cede their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote, even if a particular state were to give a majority to the loser of the popular vote.

    Put another way, if Florida has been a member of such a compact in the 2000 presidential year, it would have had to cede its electoral votes to Al Gore, making him president, since he won the popular vote nation-wide, though he lost in the state of Florida.

    This week, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo pledged the Empire State’s 29 electoral votes to the effort, which now has 165 votes. New York is the 10th state to come aboard. The District of Columbia, with three electoral votes, has also signed the agreement.

    The other states are Maryland, New Jersey, Illinois, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Vermont, California, Rhode Island, and Washington.

    Morris said all of the jurisdictions supporting the compact backed President Barack Obama in the 2012 election.

    It also has been approved by at least one legislative body in these states: Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, and Oregon.

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/slam-electoral-college-campaign-rig/2014/04/19/id/566555/

    Typical liberals – if you can’t win by fair means, then go by the back way and cheat the law.

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  90. Manolo (13,828 comments) says:

    To stephie’s disappointment:
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6077675c-c4c4-11e3-8dd4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2zTjqqEYK

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  91. lilman (960 comments) says:

    Mike,love the letter of support,really I have another side,just not that strong on suffering fools and those who make excuses for their actions.
    Still,happy Easter.

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  92. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Reid how many Rabbis do you think there have been in the last 200 years and then calculate that small list as a %.

    Fortunately just like this minute group of misguided Rabbis there is also a relatively small number of crazy hand waving Westbro believers like yourself

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  93. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “a) I don’t hate anyone, I simply call evil when I see it and when I see evil, I hate it, not the people who are doing it.”

    Bullshit. You hate Jews and try to hide that with a very stupid theory about who is or is not a Jew, and you often deliberately ignore evil when it is done by groups or country’s your sympathetic too, like any useful idiot.

    “b) the people who rule Israel and the US are not Jews, they are people who say they are Jews but are not.”

    Jews do not rule the US dumbass, and the elected government of Israel ARE Jews.

    “c) don’t believe me, ask all these Rabbis who say the same thing”

    Your using a tiny, fringe group of whackjobs as an excuse for your Jew hatred.

    “If by now, with the vast amount of information just a click away to an enquiring mind, you’re incapable of recognising the reality of global politics”

    Conspiracy sites, Neo-Nazi sites, White Supremacist sites are not sources of valid information you gullible moron.

    “which is that you in the western world are being played like a violin, you really need to question your own intelligence because this isn’t rocket science and the reality is writ large.”

    You have no intelligence. Your an idiot and a Christ hater who is being used by Islamic Christ haters as their useful idiot to promte hatred of the Jews.

    Wake up Reid, your a tool of every anti-Western group out there and too stupid to see it.

    “I merely pray that God’s will be done, in His time.”

    Your Jew hating God is called Satan.

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  94. twofish (95 comments) says:

    Labour stands firm against claims it doesn’t deserve the Maori vote
    Tariana Turia is being accused of speaking ill of the dead, over her attack of Labour’s commitment to Maori voters.
    The outgoing Maori Party co-leader has told TVNZ, that Labour made little difference to the lives of Maori during its previous nine years in Government, and doesn’t deserve the Maori vote at this year’s election …
    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbpol/335215206-labour-stands-firm-against-claims-it-doesn-t-deserve-the-maori-vote

    In an article that neither notes, nor [although it quotes him several times] does Shane Jones admit, that he is Labour’s Maori spokesperson … QED

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  95. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Kowtow: You think TVNZ were bad, what about Radio NZ, or Fairfax branch of NZ Labour, “Manawatu Standard”? They must collectively have an appointment criteria of at least membership of either Greens or Labour! These outlets are disgusting.

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  96. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    See effeminate Lees-Galloway stating abject lying ACC propaganda on Yahoo once again. Do these rainbow room fairies just pull bullshit out of the air and have it published?

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  97. big bruv (13,923 comments) says:

    Rain dance to be legally protected.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/9961817/Haka-to-get-legal-protection-under-new-law

    No doubt the right amount of koha (without a receipt being issued as that would be culturally insensitive) would waive these legal protections.

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  98. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Bullshit. You hate Jews and try to hide that with a very stupid theory about who is or is not a Jew…

    You always were a lying sack of shit, ShawnLH.
    Just like a Zionist using anti-semitism to further their goals.

    It’s not a “very stupid theory”, the idea is from the book of Revelation.

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  99. stephieboy (3,154 comments) says:

    U T,” Just like a Zionist using anti-semitism to further their goals.” ?

    Elaborate please.?

    Bumble bee theory/ no planes swap ??
    Err has Duff and VT found the locality of the 200 passengers and crew .??

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  100. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Rubin ‘Hurricane’ Carter, Boxer Wrongly Convicted of Murder, Dead at 76 http://vimeo.com/53933900

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  101. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Reid how many Rabbis do you think there have been in the last 200 years and then calculate that small list as a %.

    SR these same people managed to convince the crowd to release Barabbas and kill the Son of God. The people who were on the right side then were a tiny minority and this remains the case today. And before Shawn gets all confused by the fact the Khazars only converted to Judaism in the sixth century, the Khazars aren’t the only group who comprise the Jews who say they are Jews but are not, and the only reason I haven’t mentioned that previously is because for some reason everyone gets all hysterical at the mere mention of this state of affairs and consequently details become lost in the seething cauldron of ensuing madness. Which is precisely why they’ve conditioned you people to react that way, using the holocaust as the emotional trigger.

    (Now watch people hysterically allege I’ve just denied it took place. Or at least you would have, had I not put in that last sentence, wouldn’t you.)

    Fortunately just like this minute group of misguided Rabbis there is also a relatively small number of crazy hand waving Westbro believers like yourself

    Who?

    Your Jew hating God is called Satan.

    To the contrary Shawn you’re siding in ignorance with the people we Christians were being warned against in for example: Ma 16:12; Ga 5:9, 2:4 and 2:11-13, Ro 10:3 and Ac 20:29-32.

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  102. stephieboy (3,154 comments) says:

    Ruben ” Hurricane ” Carter’s alleged wrongful conviction is still hotly debated much like the Bain family murders.The film about Carter was widely criticized for ignoring or glossing many of his many shortcomings and aspects of the crime scene investigation. This includes an ex of his Carolyn Kelley.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2000/feb/17/20000217-010911-1953r/?page=all

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  103. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    ” Just like a Zionist using anti-semitism to further their goals.” ?

    “The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies.” ~ Theodore Herzl, father of political Zionism.

    Bumble bee theory/ no planes swap ??

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/WTCDEMO/wot/plissken.htm

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  104. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Reid your assuming Jesus actually existed.

    I’ve got a prominent Roman historian who has tonnes of documents about Jewish life around 0CE.

    Where is your independent sources?

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  105. stephieboy (3,154 comments) says:

    UT, I think we’d all like to know where the missing passengers and crew re Bumble Bee Theory .Besides the theory has been rejected. by most of the 9/11 Truth movement.

    http://screwloosechange.blogspot.co.nz/2006/05/nutty-world-of-9-11-conspiracists.html

    The alleged quote from Theodore Herzl as I pointed out previously has been quote mined and distorted out of recognition.,

    Theodor Herzl and the “Jews Want Us to Hate Them” Lie

    http://www.totalfascism.com/theodor-herzl-and-the-jews-want-us-to-hate-them-lie/

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  106. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The alleged quote from Theodore Herzl as I pointed out previously has been quote mined and distorted out of recognition.

    Hey idiot, what does it say on the first two lines of the page?

    http://www.truetorahjews.org/images/herzl2.jpg

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  107. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Reid your assuming Jesus actually existed.

    I’ve got a prominent Roman historian who has tonnes of documents about Jewish life around 0CE.

    Where is your independent sources?

    Not only that SR I’m also assuming He was God on Earth and that He did all the things elucidated in the Bible. It’s called faith.

    My evidence for that is myriad but I have a feeling that whatever I post you won’t even read, so why should I even bother, given you’re as capable as I am of finding sources that answer your own question, if you so desire. The key being, if you so desire.

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  108. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “the people we Christians”

    Your not a Christian Reid. Your’s and Ugly’s (who has already confessed to not being a Christian) cartoon interpretations of Scripture are just plain wrong, and worst, nothing more than justifications for hatred and bigotry.

    Nobody in the Anglican church supports the kind of whackjob interpretations of Scripture you promote. Some may be somewhat pro-Palestinian, but even they would recoil in horror at your abuse of the Bible to justify your hatred.

    No mainstream Anglican theologian would agree with your bizarre interpretation of Scripture in general, and Revelations in particular. Your well and truly outside classical Anglican theology, and you are bringing the Anglican church and the universal church as a whole into disrepute with your Jew hatred.

    Christ will judge you Reid. Every time you invoke His Name to promote your hatred of the Jews, every time you invoke His Name while posting links to Neo-Nazi and White Supremacist web sites, every time you invoke His Name while also posting Nazi propaganda about how the concentration camps were not really that bad, you are signing your own ticket to Hell.

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  109. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    ….”Christ will judge you Reid”….

    Well, I’m glad you could clear up the confusion about that Shawn. Poor old Reid will be shitting in his shoes now wondering whether to push the ‘up’ or ‘down’ button when he departs this mortal coil.

    Any other prophesies or nuggets of wisdom you’d like to share on this quiet afternoon? :)

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  110. Redbaiter (9,080 comments) says:

    The Standard actually provides a more intelligent and interesting read than this regular load of twisted obsessive shit.

    Dunno why you bother Kowtow.

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  111. stephieboy (3,154 comments) says:

    UT, you’ve obviously have not bothered to read the article where it considers the manner in which and what Herzl was trying to say ,

    The following quote from the man credited with popularizing the movement of political Zionism, Theodor Herzl, is very often cited by the soft and feeble “antisemites” who wish to push the idea that the Jewish problem is one of an elite ideology, rather than of race, and that the “big Jews” desire for gentiles to hate the entire Jewish race:

    “It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews.  The anti-semites shall be our best friends”.

    As is often the case with internet quotes passed around within the alleged truth movement, this is fake.  The number of ellipses alone should have given it away.  Shame on those who continue to use it as if it were accurate.  Just enter this quote into Google and look at the number of sites using it.  They all just copy it from one another, never providing the actual source, and then lying radio hosts continue to read it off nigh daily to support their subversive “the Jews want us to hate them” gibberish.

    The actual quote looks like this:

    “It would be an excellent idea to call in respectable, accredited anti-Semites as liquidators of property. To the people they would vouch for the fact that we do not wish to bring about the impoverishment of the countries that we leave. At first they must not be given large fees for this; otherwise we shall spoil our instruments and make them despicable as ‘stooges of the Jews’.
    Later their fees will increase, and in the end we shall have only Gentile officials in the countries from which we have emigrated. The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies.”

    In a nutshell what Herzl was attempting to say was that the persistent hateful and discriminating actions of anti semites at the time and those like yourself were creating the justification and grounds for the formation of an Independent state.
    Interestingly at the time of the publication of his book Jews especially in central Europe, Britain and the US were perfectly happy with their situation and resisted the ideas of Zionism.It was where severe persecution was taking place like in Czarist Russia and Eastern Europe was Zionism gaining traction .

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  112. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Pleasant Interlude.
    Something to calm your nerves. Reddy.

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  113. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    redblather twithead

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  114. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Christ will judge you Reid.

    Yes He’ll judge you too Shawn, and since He’s warned both of us about the people I’m identifying, I fear for your outcome.

    It’s a fearsome thing Shawn, to fall into the hands of the living God. I pray that He will drop the scales from your eyes.

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  115. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    Any other prophesies or nuggets of wisdom you’d like to share on this quiet afternoon?”

    Here is one just for you Naaska. :)

    How atheists became the most colossally smug and annoying people on the planet.

    “When did atheists become so teeth-gratingly annoying? Surely non-believers in God weren’t always the colossal pains in the collective backside that they are today? Surely there was a time when you could say to someone “I am an atheist” without them instantly assuming you were a smug, self-righteous loather of dumb hicks given to making pseudo-clever statements like, “Well, Leviticus also frowns upon having unkempt hair, did you know that?” Things are now so bad that I tend to keep my atheism to myself, and instead mumble something about being a very lapsed Catholic if I’m put on the spot, for fear that uttering the A-word will make people think I’m a Dawkins drone with a mammoth superiority complex and a hives-like allergy to nurses wearing crucifixes.

    These days, barely a week passes without the emergence of yet more evidence that atheists are the most irritating people on Earth. Last week we had the spectacle of Dawkins and his slavish Twitter followers (whose adherence to Dawkins’ diktats makes those Kool-Aid-drinking Jonestown folk seem level-headed in comparison) boring on about how stupid Muslims are. This week we’ve been treated to new scientific research claiming to show that atheists are cleverer than religious people. I say scientific. I say research. It is of course neither; it’s just a pre-existing belief dolled up in rags snatched from various reports and stories. Not unlike the Bible. But that hasn’t stopped the atheistic blogosphere and Twitterati from effectively saying, “See? Told you we were brainier than you Bible-reading numbskulls.”

    Atheists online are forever sharing memes about how stupid religious people are. I know this because some of my best Facebook friends are atheists. There’s even a website called Atheist Meme Base, whose most popular tags tell you everything you need to know about it and about the kind of people who borrow its memes to proselytise about godlessness to the ignorant: “indoctrination”, “Christians”, “funny”, “hell”, “misogyny”, “scumbag God”, “logic”. Atheists in the public sphere spend their every tragic waking hour doing little more than mocking the faithful. In the words of Robin Wright, they seem determined “to make it not just uncool to believe, but cool to ridicule believers”. To that end if you ever have the misfortune, as I once did, to step foot into an atheistic get-together, which are now common occurrences in the Western world, patronised by people afflicted with repetitive strain injury from so furiously patting themselves on the back for being clever, you will witness unprecedented levels of intellectual smugness and hostility towards hoi polloi.

    So, what’s gone wrong with atheism? The problem isn’t atheism itself, of course, which is just non-belief, a nothing, a lack of something. Rather it is the transformation of this nothing into an identity, into the basis of one’s outlook on life, which gives rise to today’s monumentally annoying atheism. The problem with today’s campaigning atheists is that they have turned their absence of belief in God into the be-all and end-all of their personality. Which is bizarre.

    Atheism merely signals what you don’t believe in, not what you do believe in. It’s a negative. And therefore, basing your entire worldview on it is bound to generate immense amounts of negativity. Where earlier generations of the Godless viewed their atheism as a pretty minor part of their personality, or at most as the starting point of their broader identity as socialists or humanists or whatever, today’s ostentatiously Godless folk constantly declare “I am an atheist!” as if that tells you everything you need to know about a person, when it doesn’t. The utter hollowness of this transformation of a nothing into an identity is summed up by the fact that some American atheists now refer to themselves as “Nones” – that is, their response to the question “What is your religious affiliation?” is “None”. Okay, big deal, you don’t believe in God, well done. But what do you believe in?

    Today’s atheism-as-identity is really about absolving oneself of the tough task of explaining what one is for, what one loves, what one has faith in, in favour of the far easier and fun pastime of saying what one is against and what one hates. An identity based on a nothing will inevitably be a quite hostile identity, sometimes viciously so, particularly towards opposite identities that are based on a something – in this case on a belief in God. There is a very thin line between being a None and a nihilist; after all, if your whole identity is based on not believing in something, then why give a damn about anything?”

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100230985/how-atheists-became-the-most-colossally-smug-and-annoying-people-on-the-planet/

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  116. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    Religious roundtable,

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  117. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Take your god delusion and shove it spawn

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  118. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    What a disappointment Shawn. No prophesies or nuggets of wisdom……only the final squeaks & rattles of a deranged mind.

    I might as well go & do some work to fill in the rest of the afternoon. :)

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  119. stephieboy (3,154 comments) says:

    Even 9/11 Truthers disown the” Frustrating Fraud ” and sheer stupidity of Carol Valentine’s bumble no plane theory ,

    http://frustratingfraud.blogspot.co.nz/2006/11/phase-one.html

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  120. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Spawn your religion is disgusting and offensive. Wank on about it somewhere else ffs I am sick of your pathetic god whacking stupidity. All god whackers should be locked up in a secure unit away from children to stop them infect their delusions on the inocent

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  121. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    UT, I think we’d all like to know where the missing passengers and crew re Bumble Bee Theory

    Reported by: 9News Staff
    Web produced by: Liz Foreman
    9/11/01 11:43:57 AM

    A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White.

    White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated.

    United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did say how many people were aboard the flight.

    http://911woodybox.blogspot.co.nz/2007/02/cleveland-airport-mystery.html

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  122. Fletch (6,407 comments) says:

    Andrew Klavan proposes a “one state solution” in the Middle East – give it all to the Jews. Makes perfect sense to me :)

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  123. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    No surprise to anyone whose been following Saville & Co.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2608695/I-underage-sex-police-officers-guest-house-used-VIP-paedophile-ring-Astonishing-allegations-masseur-worked-16-year-old-notorious-party-venue-used-politicians-judges-pop-stars.html

    A Labour MP says he is considering the sensational step of publicly naming an influential politician who allegedly abused boys at Elm Guest House.

    Simon Danczuk, who exposed former Liberal MP Cyril Smith, said he would use Parliamentary privilege – giving him legal immunity – to unmask someone ‘much more important’. ‘I have used privilege before and I would consider using privilege to name the Parliamentarian,’ he said yesterday.

    Rochdale MP Mr Danczuk published a book last week detailing how Smith, who died in 2010, abused hundreds of vulnerable boys over four decades.

    Unlike Smith, the politician he is now considering naming is still sitting in Parliament.

    Calling for a new in-depth inquiry into the activities at Elm House, which closed in 1982, Mr Danczuk said: ‘There is undoubtedly a cover-up.

    ‘This isn’t just about Smith, this is a much wider network of paedophiles, people who were abusing youngsters. We have to get to the bottom of it, not least because some of these people are still alive and should face justice.

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  124. SGA (1,061 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 4:11 pm

    How atheists became the most colossally smug and annoying people on the planet.

    It’s all part of a master plan, ShawnLH. Their next phase is to toll loud bells at appointed times on the weekend, leave small books on atheism in hotel and motel rooms, and to knock on strangers’ doors to tell them atheism (in case they’ve never heard of it).

    Actually, the majority of non-religious people quietly go about their business, and don’t care too much about the beliefs of others. This might not match your experience, but that might be saying something about you.

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  125. stephieboy (3,154 comments) says:

    UT, the aircraft that landed at Cleveland was actually Delta Flight 1989. The emergency landing was in the context of the 9/11 attacks just prior and there was thought a bomb aboard that proved incorrect.

    http://www.911myths.com/html/93_landed_in_cleveland.html

    Of course that didn’t stop the likes of Woody box and Pilots for 9/11 Truth trying desperately to disprove and discount it.They both have still failed to account for the 200 or so missing passengers and crew to this day.
    Why.?

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  126. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    UT, the aircraft that landed at Cleveland was actually Delta Flight 1989.

    From Woody Box:

    The emergency landing of Delta Flight 1989 is undisputed and determined by the following characteristics:

    – Landing at 10:10
    – Begin of evacuation at 12:30
    – 69 passengers on board
    – Passengers were evacuated to FAA Headquarters
    – Plane was sitting on a runway near the I-X Center

    Local media and eyewitnesses however distinctly report a different plane with different characteristics (“Flight X”):

    – Landing at 10:45
    – Begin of evacuation at 11:15
    – 200 passengers on board
    – Passengers were evacuated to the NASA Glenn Research Center
    – Plane was sitting on a runway near the NASA Center

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  127. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    The ACT party wants a three strikes policy for burglary, party leader Jamie Whyte has announced.

    The policy would be separate from the current three strikes regime for violent crime which ACT introduced in 2010.

    Whyte said it would reduce the rate of burglary by deterring people from committing crime and by incapacitating burglars who were not deterred by holding them in prison.

    Burglary convictions would not be counted as strikes within the violent crimes regime and vice versa, the one exception being aggravated burglary.

    A third strike for burglary would earn a minimum three year prison sentence with no parole.

    Whyte said it was no wonder many found burglary an attractive career. ”With a 15 per cent apprehension rate and such absurdly soft sentencing, burglary is a low risk, high reward enterprise.”

    Both major parties gave burglary low priority, he said.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9963587/ACT-wants-three-strike-burglary-policy

    A similar policy introduced to England and Wales in 1999 had resulted in a 35 per cent drop in burglaries, he said.

    Unlike the violent crime regime, where a third strike earns the maximum sentence for the crime without parole, a third strike for burglary would earn a minimum three year prison sentence with no parole.

    Sounds good to me. Get pissed off hearing of people in court with 70 convictions etc.

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  128. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘Whyte said it would reduce the rate of burglary by deterring people from committing crime’
    Pity that there is no evidence for this.

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  129. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Having a wife is part of living.
    But having girlfriends along with wife is
    “Art of Living” !!!….*

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  130. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Milky boy did you not read th last part of thee post.

    No wonder you and others have to rant on all day.

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  131. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    What did the rest of the post have to do with Whyte’s erroneous assertion that harsher sentencing would deter burglars?

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  132. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    yes mike a burglar in jail is going to do more crime :lol:
    twat
    the last one I caught had over one hundred counts of burglary and was out side of jail for only weeks before I found him in the neighbors place
    unusually this person was also a maori

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  133. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “What did the rest of the post have to do with Whyte’s erroneous assertion that harsher sentencing would deter burglars?”

    How do you know it is erroneous? Where is your evidence? Merely asserting something is not an argument, certainly not a rational one. Try again mikey boy, put a little intellectual effort into your lame ass comments for a change.

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  134. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    Speaking of irrational, intellectually lazy lame ass comments. :)

    “In 2005, Bobby Henderson wrote a sardonic letter to the State Board of Education of Kansas to protest the attempt to teach intelligent design in public schools. Henderson said in his letter, “Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel.”

    Since that time, many atheists have used Henderson’s argument, asserting that belief in the God of the Bible is no more rational than belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. However, the comparison of God to the Flying Spaghetti Monster suffers from a number of logical and practical faults.

    First, it commits the logical fallacy of faulty analogy. While analogies can be useful in arguments, not all analogies are created equal. A faulty analogy assumes that, because two unlike things may be similar in one respect, they will automatically be similar in other respects. It assumes connections that just aren’t there. The creator of a faulty analogy is saying, in essence, “Accept my argument because of these superficial similarities between what you are proposing and my fictitious comparator.”

    An example of a faulty analogy is, “Saying that humans are immortal is like saying a car can run forever.” This argument fails to take into account the nature of humans (who have a soul) and the nature of cars (which don’t). In other words, the essential difference between humans and automobiles creates a gap wide enough to dissolve the analogy. The same is true of God and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

    The heart of the Flying Spaghetti Monster argument is two-fold: (1) the chance of God existing is extremely low – similar to that of a Flying Spaghetti Monster; (2) there is no evidence that God exists, just like there is no evidence of a Flying Spaghetti Monster.

    Intellectually honest atheists know that making a propositional truth claim that is existentially negative is philosophical suicide. One can claim that there exists no meteor shaped like a horse’s head, but validating that claim is humanly impossible. So it is with those who claim there is no God. There’s no way to disprove God’s existence. Therefore, the atheist’s fallback position concerns the likelihood of God’s existence, which they reckon is so low that atheism is the most reasonable position.

    However, the issue is not how likely it is that God exists, but what evidence is there for His existence? For example, scientists (both Christian and non-Christian) admit that the odds of the essential elements coming together from time + matter + chance to form even the initial building blocks of a single cell exceed that of all statistical probability. So, despite the “low probability” of life occurring—given the atheist’s formula for existence—life does exist. The atheist’s argument of “low probability” needs to be jettisoned.

    This brings us to the second part of the atheist’s argument, that there is no evidence of God’s existence. This position is simply absurd; there is weighty philosophical, scientific, and historical evidence that affirms God.

    From a philosophical perspective, evidence for the God of the Bible can be seen in the argument from contingency (e.g., the idea of a necessary Being that is timeless, etc.), the argument from the beginning of the universe (God being the first cause), and the argument from absolute moral values.

    Advances in science also confirm the existence of God. The current understanding that the universe as we know it exploded into existence out of nothing strengthens the philosophical argument for a first cause. Further, the incredible fine-tuning of the universe for human life and the confirmation of specified complexity point to an intelligent source behind it all.

    Historically, the life of Jesus of Nazareth affirms the existence of God. No scholar, Christian or secular, denies the life, teachings, or extraordinary reports about Jesus. A philosophical appeal to the best explanation and thorough historical examination of what occurred reveal that the New Testament account of God being the cause is reasonable to believe.

    So, there is evidence of the biblical God’s existence; there is no evidence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s existence. Even those who put forward the Flying Spaghetti Monster theory do not believe its existence. While the Flying Spaghetti Monster may, on the surface, seem to challenge the existence of God, it suffers from too many intellectual and rational flaws to be considered credible.”

    http://www.compellingtruth.org/Flying-Spaghetti-Monster.html

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  135. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Merely asserting something is not an argument, certainly not a rational one. :lol:
    this from the idiot who asserts gods existence without evidence.
    Rational is not coming from you any time soon godwhacker

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  136. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Did I mention this bit in the post milkmaid.

    A similar policy introduced to England and Wales in 1999 had resulted in a 35 per cent drop in burglaries, he said.

    Oh dear so bloody obvious. Take sometime off and go look at the roses instead of your screen all day.

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  137. big bruv (13,923 comments) says:

    ShawnLH

    “This brings us to the second part of the atheist’s argument, that there is no evidence of God’s existence. This position is simply absurd; there is weighty philosophical, scientific, and historical evidence that affirms God.”

    Where is this proof that you speak of?

    Despite your bluster Shawn there is no evidence to support what you say. All you have is a collection of stories compiled together to produce the worlds best selling work of fiction. All the evidence points toward God being man made, man made god in his own image, that is a statement of fact.

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  138. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    Shawn

    Our champ vs your champ…..winner take all. Okay? :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mel0tnw6wg16oo2/Pastafarian%204.jpg

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  139. SGA (1,061 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 5:52 pm

    No scholar, Christian or secular, denies the life, teachings, or extraordinary reports about Jesus.

    I just love the way that muslims, hindus and buddhists just don’t even rate a mention from this christian perspective.

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  140. SGA (1,061 comments) says:

    nasska at 6:02 pm

    Our champ vs your champ…..winner take all. Okay? :)

    Sorry, but FSM was disqualified for lifting his “elbow” off the table. I suppose elbows are more of a macaroni thing?

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  141. wreck1080 (3,922 comments) says:

    synthetic cannabis is nasty.

    Peter Dunne must be considered incompetent.

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  142. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    secular, denies the life, teachings, or extraordinary reports about Jesus.

    Another piece of crap from the godwhacked idiot The secular world doesn’t have any proof of jesus living outside of the bible the bible is a fictional account written two hundred years after his alledged death
    get over your delusion spawn
    we are over your god and the crap you post to support your stupid primal rubbish

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  143. stephieboy (3,154 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,061 comments) says:
    April 21st, 2014 at 5:05 pm

    Mystery Flight X. with 200 on board ???

    Details of Radar Track, FDR and VCR Communications.?

    ACARs Transactions ?

    ACT Communications.?

    Final destination and whereabouts.?

    Radar Track etc as well as DNA are the poof that Flights 11, 175, 77, and 93 crashed into the WTCs, Pentagon and Shanksville.!
    Plus thousands and thousands of witness ( bystanders , first responders rescue crews , media etc, etc.)

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  144. Manolo (13,828 comments) says:

    The Standard actually provides a more intelligent and interesting read than this regular load of twisted obsessive shit.

    I’d agree and would blame the obsessive jihadist UT for KB’s precipitous decline! Allah is great, he shouts :D

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  145. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    That’s Allahu Akbar, infidel.

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  146. big bruv (13,923 comments) says:

    Shawn

    I also believe that the onus is on you to prove that your god exists. History shows that there is no proof.

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  147. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    For Wellingtonians,

    The natural order is restored in the Premier Grade with the axemen losing (historical footnote, the last year they started in this grade they lost a game to Upper Hutt 109-0) to Upper Hutt.

    Wainui beat Petone.

    HOBM lost to Johnsonville to remain in the bottom 4 and so “earn” qualification for the Hardham Cup.

    Avalon are dominating the Senior 1 comp and look competitive for the Hardham Cup later in the season and must be worth a bet to beat HOBM and earn promotion, rather than have the new regime hand it to them.

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  148. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    All the evidence points toward God being man made, man made god in his own image, that is a statement of fact.

    A language that did not evolve does not point to it. The story of Babylon describes the origin of all but one language.

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  149. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    HOB will make the Jubilee Cup, SPC – you can count on that.

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  150. wat dabney (3,774 comments) says:

    Shawn,

    Your not a Christian Reid. Your’s and Ugly’s (who has already confessed to not being a Christian) cartoon interpretations of Scripture are just plain wrong

    As was shown yesterday, if anyone here completely fails to understand the Bible it is you.

    Unbelievably, you don’t know that the resurrection of the Jesus character in the book relates to Original Sin. You have some airy-fairy notion about it pertaining to general wickedness (*).

    For someone to call himself a Christian and not understand this point, which is front and central to the whole theology, is just plain laughable.

    I’m afraid you are just another of the Children’s Bible “Christians” here.

    If you ever actually learn something about this belief system you will find out about Original Sin, and the inevitable fact that it sentences babies and children to an eternity of torment.

    (*) That’s biblical “wickedness” of course, which means cutting the grass on the Sabbath, etc.

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  151. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    mikenmild, maybe they were just tired from Friday’s game. Wellington will be seeking to run them around and pick up a win as Johnsonville did.

    The religious will appreciate your faith … but faith without energy and accuracy results in failed works.

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  152. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Radar Track etc as well as DNA are the poof that Flights 11, 175, 77, and 93 crashed into the WTCs,

    United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash – According To ATC/Radar
    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/united-93-still-airborne.html

    The claim that DNA from passengers of Flight 93 was found at the “crash site” came from the FBI.

    Elias Davidsson points to a lack of a “chain of custody.” This is a legal principle which directs those who investigate a crime to document (1) how and where they find evidence and (2) how the evidence got to the point of the hearing.

    He states that “there is no indication that a proper chain of custody between the crash sites and the final disposition of bodily remains had been established by the FBI, as required in criminal cases. The 9/11 Commission did not refer to any such documentation.”

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/15/the-911-passenger-paradox-what-happened-to-flight-93/

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  153. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (890 comments) says:

    Labour’s future Prime Ministerial candidate Rajen Prassad is a waste of time and waste of space. He is justifying his existence by tweeting some crap. So ignore him fellows.

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  154. wat dabney (3,774 comments) says:

    This joke makes sense if you are Shawn, but not if you actually understand Christianity:

    http://i.imgur.com/poj6zLg.jpg

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  155. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    Those seeking an end to the legal status of unsafe products should be happier by years end when they will no longer be on sale. For now appreciate that they are excluded from dairies and not available to those under 18.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/editorials/9961514/Editorial-Will-legal-highs-last

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  156. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “As was shown yesterday, if anyone here completely fails to understand the Bible it is you.”

    As was shown yesterday, you don’t have a clue about the Bible, which is why you threw a temper tantrum and ran away from the debate. Your claim that babies burn in Hell was dis-proven.

    “Unbelievably, you don’t know that the resurrection of the Jesus character in the book relates to Original Sin.”

    Because it doesn’t. No church has ever taught that, and it’s not in the Bible. The resurrection is about the conquering of death.

    “For someone to call himself a Christian and not understand this point, which is front and central to the whole theology, is just plain laughable.”

    It’s laughable that you think you know anything at all about Christianity. I have already proven that you don’t have a clue. Do you really want to be embarrassed two nights in a row?

    Your an uninformed idiot wat, spouting ignorant crap to justify your hatred of God. You need to believe that babies burn in Hell because it gives you an excuse to hate God and Christianity.

    But it’s pure bullshit you have made up. Stop pretending to know anything about Scripture wat, or I’ll give you another spanking. :)

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  157. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    The ACT party policy is a winner; there wouldn’t be a single person living in this country who hasn’t either been burgled or had their car broken into or a family member robbed. It’s out of control and has been for years and years.

    Problem is it was sold by Jamie Whyte who just can’t sell the electorate anything he looks and sounds like a Wallace and Gromit character.

    Mikenmild – I guess the difference between you and me is that I don’t need to have a suite of glossy stats from the gubmint department of twaddle to know that even this (actually) timid approach would decrease numbers significantly. (I’d prefer you got one chance only and have three years hard labour but hey that’s me. I don’t have endless patience).

    In New Zealand, where you don’t actually have to do anything to contribute to society yet receive everything the mind body and soul needs for absolutely nothing, do you need stats to tell you that if you cut a convicted burglar’s hand off he would not repeat the exercise?

    Moron

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  158. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “I also believe that the onus is on you to prove that your god exists. History shows that there is no proof.”

    No it’s really not “on me” bb because I have never said you can prove the existence of God. Neither can you disprove it. It’s a matter of faith and personal experience.

    Got any more lame ass arguments there little sis? :)

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  159. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, really?

    The concept of original sin was introduced to explain why man/Adam was mortal if man/Adam was a son of God.

    Thus faith in continuance of life (via the sign of a resurrection overcoming death) is directly related to the earlier introduction of original sin as an explanation for mortality.

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  160. wat dabney (3,774 comments) says:

    Shawn,

    I’m afraid you are justing broadcasting your total ignorance here, but I’m not surprised you don’t know the basics of your belief system. It is really quite common for “Christians” to know and understand very little about the subject. For them it’s a license to feel smug and superior without actually having to do anything to earn it.

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  161. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    (*) That’s biblical “wickedness” of course, which means cutting the grass on the Sabbath, etc.

    Or not. Not every sin earned the description of wickedness.

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  162. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “Thus faith in continuance of life (via the sign of a resurrection overcoming death) is directly related to the earlier introduction of original sin as an explanation for mortality.”

    The Fall brought death, sin and evil into the world, and thus the resurrection is a conquering of all of those three. Wat’s claim is that original sin transfers the GUILT of that sin to all, and thus to babies. But the GUILT is not transferred, only the result, death. And so the resurrection is about the overcoming of death, not the overcoming of guilt as wat claims.

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  163. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    your claim that babies burn in Hell was dis-proven.

    Like anyone sane should believe that.

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  164. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “I’m afraid you are justing broadcasting your total ignorance here, but I’m not surprised you don’t know the basics of your belief system. ”

    Wat, I am married to an ordained Anglican minister with a degree in Biblical theology. I have three years of study at varsity under my belt, and almost thirty years of personal study. I have over a hundred books on Christian basics, from Roman Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox view points, all of which I have read.

    So I’m going to go out on a limb and say I know the basics, and you don’t. Your just clinging to this fantasy to justify your hatred, but seriously wat, you really do not have a clue.

    Like a few others here at KB, your just another ignorant hate monger spouting about a subject you don’t understand, and really don’t want to.

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  165. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Spawn your argument’s are the lamest ever
    take your stupid religious superstitions and stuff them up with the kid molesting priests. misery causing dogma and the corrupt greedy churches. Pathetic religious nutters should be locked up as a danger to society. You are incredibly stupid in your devotion to a desert cult of pre enlightenment ignorant sand niggers. God is dead thank christ

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  166. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, so you saying overcoming death enabled humanity to be divided between those with continuing life in heaven and those with continuing life in hell.

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  167. stephieboy (3,154 comments) says:

    There is no evidence that Flight 93 was airborne after crashing at Shanksville at 10.03 ( when FDR, VCR transmission from the flight stopped ). Your link to alleged transmissions from P4 T do not demonstrate this at all . Merely attempts to communicate to 93 unbeknown to ACT that it had just crashed.
    Show me specific transmissions from Flight 93 that show acknowledgments and communications with Cleveland ACT etc and ACARS stations post Shanksville. Also the Radar Track.?

    The claim that the DNA analysis from Flight 93 came form the FBI is false. The actual sources are ,

    Paul Sledzik, Curator Armed Forces Institute of Pathology National Museum of Health and Medicine
    Leader of flight 93 Disaster Mortuary (Team DMORT) Emil: sledzik@email.afip.osd.mil –More on Sledzik

    Dr. Dennis C. Dirkmaat, Chief Scientific Advisor to Somerset County Coroner’s office in the flight 93 investigation; Director, Applied Forensic Sciences Department, Mercyhurst College, 501 E. 38th St. Erie, PA 16546 Email: dirkmaat@mercyhurst.edu

    Also Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller ,

    http://old.post-gazette.com/nation/20020911miller0911p9.asp

    Has Elias Davidson bothered to get in touch with any of these the gentlemen..?

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  168. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    So I’m going to go out on a limb and say I know the basics, and you don’t.

    If you know the basics, then why do you follow the teaching of a lying Pharisee?

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  169. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Its fun to go away at Easter.

    Queues of traffic stretching for kilometres are causing lengthy delays across Sydney and NSW as motorists head home on the Easter long weekend.

    The most affected areas are in the state’s north, the South Coast, Hunter and Central Coast regions.

    Just after 4pm, traffic was queued 23km on the Pacific Highway at Ewingsdale, near Byron Bay, adding two hours to travel time, the Transport Management Centre said. Further south at Woodburn, traffic was banked up 10km and causing 35 minute delays around 1pm, but by 5pm this had mostly cleared adding five minute delays.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/easter-traffic-jams-delay-holidaymakers-return-home-20140421-37011.html#ixzz2zVF7F8Bp

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  170. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    Griff,

    “take your stupid religious superstitions and stuff them up with the kid molesting priests. misery causing dogma and the corrupt greedy churches. Pathetic religious nutters should be locked up as a danger to society. You are incredibly stupid in your devotion to a desert cult of pre enlightenment ignorant sand niggers. God is dead thank christ”

    Wow. “Sand Niggers”

    Atheism really does make the world a better place, filled with rational, peaceful, non-bigoted souls!!! :)

    Racism is a misery causing dogma Griff, but that little fact clearly does not enter your tiny, hate filled mind.

    Thanks Griff, you just made my case for me! :)

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  171. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Your an uninformed idiot wat, spouting ignorant crap merely to justify your hatred of God.

    Yes wat is wrong, as is often the case, but what do we get, in response.

    Anger and venom.

    Permit me to diagnose your problem Shawn. You’re not very brainy but you hallucinate you are because of what you’ve made of yourself from relatively humble beginnings and because some letters after your name tell you so. I’m picking you’re from working class parents who loved you but didn’t especially push you in the education dept so you pulled yourself up by your own bootstraps in this area. This generated a self-assurance bordering on and indeed transgressing into arrogance (which you don’t see in yourself but which we all see based on your commenting style here).

    I suspect you’re in your forties which is an age in which we gain a competence but not mastery of our chosen fields and if in fact you’re any younger you’re extremely arrogant and if you’re any older you’re extraordinarily insecure.

    Your mention again in your 7:13 of your marriage to a vicar reinforces the insecurity angle as it means you need to mention peripheral details to bolster bluster your case authoriti so I’m picking early forties if not late thirties in that case.

    Arrogance, anger and venom isn’t the mature Christian way Shawn, you need to go back to the basics and start again my friend. Starting at “In the…” and ending with “…Amen” and yes, I’ve read it seven times from cover to cover myself, so please don’t pretend to bluster your way with me, you just won’t succeed. For example I’m still waiting for you to respond to those references I gave above, but I’m not expecting any sensible reply. That is, a considered calm response without anger and venom.

    Blessings.

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  172. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    So are all the other atheists here down with “Sand Niggers” and locking most of New Zealand up for not being atheists?

    Come on now, fess up! Who else think’s Griff’s idea of a better society is calling black and semitic folks ‘niggers’??? :) :) :)

    Oh yeah! Atheism really does make rational, kind, progressive societies, filled with folks like Griff, just dying to give a few niggers a good kicking! :)

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  173. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    There is no evidence that Flight 93 was airborne after crashing at Shanksville at 10.03

    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/united-93-still-airborne.html

    It is impossible for ATC to have observed United 93 transponder and altitude after the reported impact time and southeast of the crash site, if United 93 did in fact crash in Shanksville as the 9/11 Commission would have you believe.

    The following transcript excerpts are provided by the Federal Aviation Administration. It is a conversation between Air Traffic Control System Command Center – East, Management Officers (ntmo-e) and other various facilities. The conversation is as follows in real time:

    1405 (10:05 a.m.)

    ntmo-e: ok united ninety three we’re now receiving a transponder on and he is at eighty two hundred feet

    doug: now transponder and he’s eighty two-hundred

    ntmo-e: southeastbound still

    doug: eighty two hundred feet and now getting a transponder on him

    ntmo-e: correct

    doug: ok buddy

    10:06

    ntmo-e: ok we’ve lost radar contact with united ninety three
    doug: all right

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  174. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    What a strange issue the Nigella Lawson case is.

    Just how many UK musicians have used drugs and have no trouble touring the USA, and vice versa? Hundreds, thousands … .

    Mark Todd is still travelling abroad to do eventing …

    The no admission rule should be limited to drug supply conviction, it is selective persecution otherwise.

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  175. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    …..”. I have three years of study at varsity under my belt, and almost thirty years of personal study. I have over a hundred books on Christian basics, from Roman Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox view points, all of which I have read.”…..

    All that & you still believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus & religion…..you’re beyond hope. :)

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  176. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    yes I hate religion and the damage it does. you should be ashamed of your gullibility and stupidity. as for coming on kb and fulling gd with your god crap FFS find somewhere else to spurt your christian rubbish. I don’t read gd to be exposed to your pathetic religious nonsense. if you came to my door spurting your crap I would set the dogs on you. Actually my last boxer dog attacked a fat Anglican priest, talk about funny :lol: god didn’t help him much that twat bleed real good

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  177. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    All is not well in the Xero camp.

    The founder of shaving preparation brand Oscar Natural hired a Sydney accounting firm in July last year to convert his accounting software from MYOB to Xero, favoured by a growing number of Australian small business owners.

    He was told in an email it wouldn’t cost more than $9000, and de Vries was given the impression it would take a week or two.

    But months on, he’s still waiting for the conversion to be finalised and has been trapped in a cycle of bill payments.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/small-business/finance/my-20000-mistake-20140417-36u7a.html#ixzz2zVIYMrtG

    Not Xero’s fault but there seems to be a number of issues that need resolving via their mediation if they can be bothered. Message is clearly be careful.

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  178. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    ShawnLH.
    Your 3.44 pm.

    I dislike the way you are judging Reid.
    What you are doing is contrary to Christian teaching.
    The Anglican church has some teachings which are contrary to the genuine teachings of Christ – the full Truth which is contained in the One, Holy Cathollc and Apostolic Church – which the Anglican Communion broke from in the so called Reformation.

    Judge not, Shawn, lest you yourself will be judged.

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  179. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    So Griff, when your dancing around the bonfire worshipping the Goddess Gaia, does she send you messages about how New Zealand is over run with niggers and how they all need a good kicking to put them in their place? :)

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  180. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    Griff
    Global warming is your religion. And as for setting a dog on a man, it just shows what a stupid and ignorant cunt you are.
    It’s tempting to report your comment to the police.

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  181. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    ^Don the Kiwi

    Proof that even Christians of different denominations argue about which of their version of God and interpretation of the Bible is the one true God and interpretation…

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  182. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi, claiming that only one church, and or only one religion, has the full truth, is to judge against all others. Judge not, lest

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  183. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    Don,

    I’m trying to warn Reid about the dangers of hating Jews, or hating anyone. That’s all.

    We could argue over the Reformation if you want, but I don’t see the point.

    For what it’s worth I have a great deal of respect for the current Pope, and JP2 was a genuine saint imo who stood up to Communism.

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  184. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    Shit all mighty……now we’ve got the Godnutters fighting amongst themselves.

    It just doesn’t get better than this. :)

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  185. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I’m trying to warn Reid about the dangers of hating Jews, or hating anyone. That’s all.

    More lies from ShawnLH. Reid’s made it abundantly clear that he doesn’t hate Jews.

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  186. stephieboy (3,154 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,068 comments) says:
    April 21st, 2014 at 7:26 pm

    That is no evidence of a Radar Track or Transponder on with the Flight crew communicating with presumably Cleveland or Pittsburg ACT.
    Show me the specific communications by the 93 Pilot and or co Pilot to ACT Centers and ACARS ground stations post Shanksville .?
    There are simply none.

    Meanwhile more on identification of Human Remains and DNA at Shanksville including the work of County Coroner Wallace Miller. A long arduous process of sorting through,identifying and analyzing 1,500 pierces of human tissue , bones, teeth etc,

    https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/flight93page1

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  187. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    I heard Peter Dunnes son is the legal rep for the legal high industry. Any truth to this?

    Sounds like a big conflict of interest.

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  188. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yeah Ugly, he only hates the ‘Zionist’ ones.

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  189. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Too true Southern Raider. Pete George will be along in a minute to explain it all for us.

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  190. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    That is no evidence of a Radar Track or Transponder on with the Flight crew of communicating with presumably Cleveland or Pittsburg ACT.

    Stop obfuscating, idiot.
    The transcript clearly shows ATC had transponder contact two minutes after the supposed crash time:

    ntmo-e: ok united ninety three we’re now receiving a transponder on and he is at eighty two hundred feet

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  191. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    Tictactoe.
    your 7.37 pm.

    The good thing is though, that most Christian communities have the basics right – see John 3:16 , so I believe there is no differentiation in who the One True God is.

    Our differences comes about not so much in basic theology, but in the way that the New and Eternal Covenant is to be observed and enacted.

    SPC.

    I am not judging – simply indicating that a split occurred in Christianity in the 16th century, which has had devastating effects in the life of our understanding and beliefs of the teachings of Christ. E.g. – the Anglican Church has approved of divorce, and now accepts homosexuality – which is contrary to the teaching of Christ.

    Don’t misunderstand me though – I have much empathy with our Anglican brothers and sisters, and a very close friend of mine is a staunch Anglican, and we have many interesting conversations – in the same way that a very close friend of mine who died 2 years ago claimed to be an atheist – I did convince him that he was really agnostic, and he remained a close friend to his death. May God have mercy on him.

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  192. Tauhei Notts (1,721 comments) says:

    Viking at 7.33 p.m.
    Thank you for that post about Xero.
    Nasska doesn’t believe there is a a god, but I now think there is one. That god invented the information technology industry in an attempt to make real estate agents look honest.

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  193. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yeah Ugly, he only hates the ‘Zionist’ ones.

    Are you channelling ShawnLH now, mikenmild?

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  194. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    No Ugly, I reached my own conclusions about Reid’s rabid anti-semitism long ago.

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  195. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Our differences comes about not so much in basic theology, but in the way that the New and Eternal Covenant is to be observed and enacted.

    I met one apologist who maintained that it was universal regardless of the text explicity stating the opposite.

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  196. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    An atheist explorer in the deepest Amazon Forest suddenly finds himself surrounded by a group of blood thirsty cannibals. Upon surveying the situation, he says quietly to himself, “Oh God, I’m fucked this time!”

    Suddenly there is a ray of light from Heaven and a voice booms out, “No, you are not screwed. All you have to do is pick up that rock at your feet and bash in the head of the chief cannibal standing in front of you”.

    So the explorer picks up the rock and proceeds to bash the chief unconscious.

    As he stands over the body, breathing heavily and surrounded by hundreds of cannibals with looks of shock and anger on their faces, God’s voice booms out again and says, “OK…..Now you’re fucked”.

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  197. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi, all churches have fallen away from what was taught them. The Orthodox and Protestant churches have simply been faithless to unity.

    If the full Truth was “contained in the One, Holy Cathollc and Apostolic Church” then there would not be disobedience to the bible words of Jesus. On the issue of calling God father and calling God holy.

    The church went to Rome to end Roman ways and to honour God, not have the titles of God bestowed on a man.

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  198. big bruv (13,923 comments) says:

    Shawn

    You really must stop telling lies.

    “No it’s really not “on me” bb because I have never said you can prove the existence of God”

    You Shaun, yes YOU have said on numerous occasions that there is proof that your god exists. Laughably, you even told me that all I have to do is look for it.

    Now Shaun, cease with the arrogance and come and debate the issue. All you have to do is come through with this proof that your god exists.

    Failing that, can you at least admit that it matters not what is written in your book of fiction, the words printed on those pages do not give you the right to control the lives of others. Can you do that Shawn?

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  199. MT_Tinman (3,202 comments) says:

    nasska (9,523 comments) says:
    April 21st, 2014 at 7:42 pm
    Shit all mighty……now we’ve got the Godnutters fighting amongst themselves.

    It just doesn’t get better than this. :)

    Actually if they were to all get the shits and stop talking to each other through Kiwiblog that would be better but I share your amusement. :-)

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  200. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘He’s not the messiah; he’s just a very naughty boy’

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  201. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    nasska.

    Good joke – sorry, heard it years ago. :-)

    SPC.
    What you are failing to recognise is the work of the Holy Spirit, which Jesus promised to His Church, and the Catholic Church traces its origins back to that. If it is as you claim, you are saying that the Holy Spirit was not with the Church – so how can you then say, it was with the reformers at any time, when the Holy Spirit was not promised to any others, other than the church that Christ founded?

    You have a narrow and incorrect interpretation of “father”.

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  202. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    Questions for the various Christians here.

    Do they agree on the matter of God?

    Is Jesus son of God, or God? Is Jesus God the Son, but not God the father? And who is this God the Holy Spirit?

    And once they have stated their view how does it reconcile with the idea that Moslems and Jews are fellow monotheists? Given they do not equate Jesus with God at all, not even as the son of God.

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  203. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I’ve never heard it before nasska! :)

    Keep up the good work! :)

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  204. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    Chill out with this comedy gold,

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  205. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    God is a Trinitarian God – Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Three persons in the One True God.

    God is mystery – we cannot understand it, but accept in Faith. There are Many biblical quotes to demonstrate this Truth, but too involved to deal with here.

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  206. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    The worst thing about fucking Easter is after celebrating baby Jesus and all you get to go back to bloody work on Tuesday! :)

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  207. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    You have a narrow and incorrect interpretation of “father
    ========================

    you only have one father. A wise maori lady once said to me, if ya Maori you will almost always know your mother but not always your father.

    anybody else inducing mind fairies, sky fairies et al ain’t ya father.

    OK Don.

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  208. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi, oh so the work of the holy spirit authorised the development within the church of a practice of calling a man Holy Father, when Jesus clearly said these were titles for God – call only God holy, and call God father.

    Fortunately we no longer have a “holy” inquisition to suppress telling this truth to power.

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  209. kowtow (8,512 comments) says:

    Comedy gold when the BBC do A Mohammed Piss Take.

    Won’t hold my breath.

    Cowards and hypocrites.

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  210. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Fortunately we no longer have a “holy” inquisition to suppress telling truth to power.

    Today it is something like project Mockingbird.

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  211. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    Don, as per the Trinity, it would appear to be an effort to explain word of God authority claim. In the first instance the Tanakh of the Jew and then the gospel of the coming of the son of God and then the church guided by the Holy Spirit claiming to have the authority of heaven on earth.

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  212. big bruv (13,923 comments) says:

    Don

    Your argument falls at the first hurdle. You arrogantly assume that the bible is accepted by all and sundry as absolute fact, as if its text is the final word.

    You do know how laughable that is don’t you?

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  213. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    I went to a Catholic high school, and my best friend there (who is, I think, a Baptist) commented to me how the Catholic religion is more like the Hindu religion with it’s many deities, powers-that-be and gods – you have God, Jesus, Mary, Joesph and a huge variety of saints…

    It is especially noteworthy that my grandmother made us pray for Mary far more often than God or Jesus. “Holy Mary, Mother of Jesus, blessed art thou among women…” Why is that?

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  214. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Blessed be the Virgins bb for they have yet to meet Johnboy! :)

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  215. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    See above Tictactoe! :)

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  216. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    Big Bruv,,,er, I mean little sis :)

    Given that like Griff your another ignorant racist retard trying to make the world a better place by promoting atheism and putting all the “niggers” in their place I am hardly like to take lessons on truth from you now am I?

    The world cannot be made a better place by the Big Bruv’s and Griff’s of the world. They are just retarded Nazi moron’s who think the White Race is superior to any other.

    Two examples of atheism folks! Both gutless thugs and racist moron’s wanting to silence and kill anyone who disagrees with them. Sound familiar?

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  217. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    ….”I went to a Catholic high school”…..

    You poor bugger Tictactoe. There’s been some terrible stories told about life at those institutions. :)

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  218. stephieboy (3,154 comments) says:

    U T. Transponder blip contact tracked and picked up by which ACT center.???
    And no attempts to communicate with Flight crew or vice versa ?
    My…..!
    Current known location of the missing 200.?
    Theories , ideas etc.
    Have the morons with P4T put in a FOIA request in regard to this.?
    The squabbling amongst Cters about project Mockingbird.
    The accusations fly including Alex Jones as diisfo agent for the CIA..

    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi/noframes/read/211419

    Hilarious.!

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  219. kowtow (8,512 comments) says:

    Tictactoe

    Many deities ? Rubbish.

    Just like you, 3 in 1. Tic tac toe.

    ps If you did go to a catholic school ,you weren’t paying much attention!

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  220. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Two examples of atheism folks! Both gutless thugs and racist moron’s wanting to silence and kill anyone who disagrees with them. Sound familiar?

    Or you could just lie about your opponents some more, ShawnLH…

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  221. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Youse onto it ShawnLH. As waitin for Kunta Kinte to publish his alternative theory of relativity…yes indeedy ah am.

    It’ll be a great day for the alternative folks! :)

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  222. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    bb.

    I am talking about my beliefs, and all other Christians.

    Nothing arrogant there. You are free to believe what you wish – that’s free will.

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  223. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    You’re showing the strain Shawn….never seen you have to pull the martyred AND the race cards in the same comment.

    HTFU! :)

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  224. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    Tictactoe

    .I went to a Catholic high school, and my best friend there (who is, I think, a Baptist) commented to me how the Catholic religion is more like the Hindu religion with it’s many deities, powers-that-be and gods – you have God, Jesus, Mary, Joesph and a huge variety of saints…

    Well , that’s them Baptists for ya – haven’t got a clue on what Catholics believe. There is ony one God , who is to be worshipped. Mary, Joseph and all the saints are honoured – not worshipped.

    What kowtow said

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  225. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    Kowtow:

    No I didn’t, because all of the R.E. teachers were universal fuckwits relying on “textbooks” to do their “teaching.”

    Nasska:

    I don’t think they’re as bad as they used to be now. Certainly, my one was/is the best ‘public’ co-ed school in town (with only the property/religious fees payable by my parents.) All you have to do is put up with the R.E. crap, which I skived anyways.
    Funny story is, I passed ALL of my R.E. unit standards. Guess what? I didn’t sit any one of them since I didn’t bother going, my teachers just marked me and everyone else as a pass. Guess NZQA doesn’t even bother to check religious papers.

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  226. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Thank goodness he never went to Catholic school nasska or he’d have had more than his cards pulled! :)

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  227. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    Clipped, bored, punched & reamed I would think JB .

    Then pulled! :)

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  228. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    You sound like a fellow who will be almost 35 in another 15 years Tictactoe! :)

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  229. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    DontheKiwi:

    Rubbish. Asking Mary for pray for you doesn’t sound like “honouring” a saint, it sounds like asking for reward/redemption from a deity of sorts. Asking Saint Christopher for a safe car journey out of town – does that sound like honouring a saint?

    The sort of language I’d expect to find in someone “honouring” someone else would be “Let us remember who this person was and what they did in their lives.” Like ANZAC Day. Now there’s a day worth actually attending services and taking the time to reflect on our history and to pay respect for our ancestors, veterans and our currently serving military for defending our country and freedom.

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  230. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    Johnboy – I’m not that young :( hahahaha

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  231. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    Atheists: No God, no reason, just whining. :)

    I can’t stand atheists — but it’s not because they don’t believe in God. It’s because they’re crashing bores.

    Other people, most recently the British cultural critic Terry Eagleton in his new book, “Faith, Reason, and Revolution,” take to task such superstar nonbelievers as Oxford biologist Richard Dawkins (“The God Delusion”) and political journalist Christopher Hitchens (“God Is Not Great”) for indulging in a philosophically primitive opposition of faith and reason that assumes that if science can’t prove something, it doesn’t exist.

    My problem with atheists is their tiresome — and way old — insistence that they are being oppressed and their fixation with the fine points of Christianity. What — did their Sunday school teachers flog their behinds with a Bible when they were kids?

    Read Dawkins, or Hitchens, or the works of fellow atheists Sam Harris (“The End of Faith”) and Daniel Dennett (“Breaking the Spell”), or visit an atheist website or blog (there are zillions of them, bearing such titles as “God Is for Suckers,” “God Is Imaginary” and “God Is Pretend”), and your eyes will glaze over as you peruse — again and again — the obsessively tiny range of topics around which atheists circle like water in a drain.

    First off, there’s atheist victimology: Boohoo, everybody hates us ‘cuz we don’t believe in God. Although a recent Pew Forum survey on religion found that 16% of Americans describe themselves as religiously unaffiliated, only 1.6% call themselves atheists, with another 2.4% weighing in as agnostics (a group despised as wishy-washy by atheists). You or I might attribute the low numbers to atheists’ failure to win converts to their unbelief, but atheists say the problem is persecution so relentless that it drives tens of millions of God-deniers into a closet of feigned faith, like gays before Stonewall.

    In his online “Atheist Manifesto,” Harris writes that “no person, whatever his or her qualifications, can seek public office in the United States without pretending to be certain that … God exists.” The evidence? Antique clauses in the constitutions of six — count ‘em — states barring atheists from office.

    The U.S. Supreme Court ruled such provisions unenforceable nearly 50 years ago, but that doesn’t stop atheists from bewailing that they have to hide their Godlessness from friends, relatives, employers and potential dates. One representative of the pity-poor-me school of atheism, Kathleen Goodman, writing in January for the Chronicle of Higher Education, went so far as to promote affirmative action for atheists on college campuses: specially designated, college-subsidized “safe spaces” for them to express their views.

    Maybe atheists wouldn’t be so unpopular if they stopped beating the drum until the hide splits on their second-favorite topic: How stupid people are who believe in God. This is a favorite Dawkins theme. In a recent interview with Trina Hoaks, the atheist blogger for the Examiner.com website, Dawkins described religious believers as follows: “They feel uneducated, which they are; often rather stupid, which they are; inferior, which they are; and paranoid about pointy-headed intellectuals from the East Coast looking down on them, which, with some justification, they do.” Thanks, Richard!

    Dennett likes to call atheists “the Brights,” in contrast to everybody else, who obviously aren’t so bright. In a 2006 essay describing his brush with death after a heart operation, Dennett wrote these thoughts about his religious friends who told him they were praying for his recovery: “Thanks, I appreciate it, but did you also sacrifice a goat?” With friends like Daniel Dennett, you don’t need enemies.

    Then there’s P.Z. Myers, biology professor at the University of Minnesota’s Morris campus, whose blog, Pharyngula, is supposedly about Myers’ field, evolutionary biology, but is actually about his fanatical propensity to label religious believers as “idiots,” “morons,” “loony” or “imbecilic” in nearly every post. The university deactivated its link to Myers’ blog in July after he posted a photo of a consecrated host from a Mass that he had pierced with a rusty nail and thrown into the garbage (“I hope Jesus’ tetanus shots are up to date”) in an effort to prove that Catholicism is bunk — or something.

    The problem with atheists — and what makes them such excruciating snoozes — is that few of them are interested in making serious metaphysical or epistemological arguments against God’s existence, or in taking on the serious arguments that theologians have made attempting to reconcile, say, God’s omniscience with free will or God’s goodness with human suffering. Atheists seem to assume that the whole idea of God is a ridiculous absurdity, the “flying spaghetti monster” of atheists’ typically lame jokes. They think that lobbing a few Gaza-style rockets accusing God of failing to create a world more to their liking (“If there’s a God, why aren’t I rich?” “If there’s a God, why didn’t he give me two heads so I could sleep with one head while I get some work done with the other?”) will suffice to knock down the entire edifice of belief.

    What primarily seems to motivate atheists isn’t rationalism but anger — anger that the world isn’t perfect, that someone forced them to go to church as children, that the Bible contains apparent contradictions, that human beings can be hypocrites and commit crimes in the name of faith. The vitriol is extraordinary.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/17/opinion/oe-allen17

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  232. mandk (996 comments) says:

    ShawnLH,
    Your 8.40 was disgraceful and unbecoming.
    I really think you should withdraw from this site until you can engage in a more fitting manner.
    Matt. 5.16

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  233. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    Don the kiwi, you say “the Anglican Church has approved of divorce, and now accepts homosexuality – which is contrary to the teaching of Christ”. The bible mentions opposition to re-marriage after a divorce, not to divorce itself. The Anglicans do not remarry the divorced. Catholic Church opposition to divorce itself is not biblical.

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  234. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    So sure of your opinions against atheists/agnostics that you copy paste from other writers, ShawnLH. Wow, colour me impressed by your repetitive use of control c – v. Seriously, how many posts have you made that was actually thought out and written by you?

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  235. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    “Asking Saint Christopher for a safe car journey out of town ”

    Now you have a good point there Tictactoe. Whats your position regarding the dangers to vehicular locomotion presented by all these wankers that have crosses and rosary beads and other heathen fetishes hanging from their rear view mirrors?

    Never let it ever be said that I am a damned racist but I have noticed it to more prevalent amongst our darker brethren! :)

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  236. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    The Godhead a.k.a. the trinity is mentioned three times in the scriptures. It’s been removed from many modern translations but the KJV and the Geneva both have it, at Ac 17:29; Ro 1:20 and Co 2:9.

    FYI.

    As many of you will have witnessed not just over Easter but before, it’s entirely possible and not uncommon in fact for people of the faith to vehemently disagree on many issues and for those who aren’t of the faith I hope this debate between Shawn and I has demonstrated that we don’t just go along and listen to the preacher in some kind of hypnotic trance and emerge all brainwashed and in lockstep proceed madly to knock on any and every door in our mad desire to preach the good news like some cult.

    Issues like the homosexuality in the Anglican communion that Don mentioned are matters that are debated vigorously and you know why? Because the Bible’s a library, not a book. There are close to 1,000,000 words in it (997 something thousand I think) and each word has been translated multiple times sometimes by well meaning and perhaps, sometimes, cynically by those meaning ill.

    The Schofield Bible for example is one of the standard US translations and this is why Americans are so fascinated by the rapture which newsflash, isn’t in the original texts in anything like the way its described in the Schofield. And that’s just one example.

    But the duty of each and every person of the faith is to apply faithfully and vigorously their current interpretation of the Word and that’s no game. As a Christian my religion is my bedrock of life and it comes before children, wife, siblings and parents. You know, when they were being thrown to the lions, all Christians needed to do to avoid that was to say they bow to whoever the current Ceasar of the day was and accept him as their living god? That’s all they had to do. But they didn’t, and I won’t, either, if and when the day comes when that question is asked of me.

    Sorry to the rest of you to make religion the main focus of the Easter Gd’s. In some ways. In other ways, it seems most appropriate. It’s just a shame that no-one will change their mind based on a blog post, since it’s the most important question any of us ever answers, even if some don’t know it.

    P.S. Thank you Don for your kind defence and BTW, I’m one Anglican whose with the Catholic stance on both homosexuality and abortion.

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  237. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    2000 years of fucked up christ stains telling the rest how to live
    Times have changed fucker it is now time for us to tell you idiots were to get of
    GOD is your fantasy
    Ignorant dumb twats who deserve laughter at their stupid bronze age superstition.Dosent one of the commandments you retards say are the law of god say don’t worship false idols dont pray to anyone but me so catlickers pray toand worship everyone but god “‘You shall have no other gods before me.
    Thou_shalt_not_make_unto_thee_any_graven_image” title
    4–6 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness
    of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath,
    or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them
    or serve them, for I the LORD
    your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the
    children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
    but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my
    commandments.
    8–10 “‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any
    likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth
    beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down
    to them or serve them; for I the LORD
    your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the
    children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but
    showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my
    commandments
    mary
    jesus
    the saints
    the popes
    are all false idols

    Criststain retards can’t even keep your own stupid rules and you expect me to ….. fuck off

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  238. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Well said Reid. I’m waiting for the day when the Pope marries the first Priest and Nun into holy wedlock!

    What a great day for religion that will be! :)

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  239. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    I’m waiting for the day when the Pope marries the first Priest and Nun into holy wedlock!

    Hell and freezing springs to mind my friend.

    BTW that was Col 2:9 not Co, above

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  240. thedavincimode (6,777 comments) says:

    Goodness me grief.

    No Easter eggs?

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  241. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I never said gay priest or lesbian nun Reid. It may be closer than you suspect! :)

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  242. thedavincimode (6,777 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 9:13 pm

    Was that a parody piece? Well done you.

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  243. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    Tictactoe.
    your 9.08 pm.

    You’ve obviously never heard of intercessory prayer. If I asked you to pray for me for a particular reason, would you do so?
    That is intercessory prayer – I’m asking you to intercede for me to God. Everyone’s prayer has merit. The bible is full of it. That’s what prayer to Mary and the saints is – asking them to intercede for us to God.

    Once again, you have a very limited understanding of what “honour” is. I guess once you get past Year 6, you may have a deeper understanding. ;-)

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  244. thedavincimode (6,777 comments) says:

    Looking forward to ANZAC day now – just to round out this period of reflection. Hopefully MNIJ/borker will put in a cameo.

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  245. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Tictactoe the Elder would never have made a mistake like that Don! :)

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  246. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I was hoping Kea may fly down from the Himalaya and shite on us again Leonardo! :)

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  247. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    Good old griffith.

    Having his usual spaz attack. Dribbling away as he usually does.

    Hows Man-Made global warming going, griff? :-)

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  248. thedavincimode (6,777 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    I’m hoping Kea will fly down and polish your glasses. You’ve been making some rash confessions lately. Very concerning.

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  249. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    Reid.

    Pleasure , brother.

    My Anglican friends hold the same view as you – its the liberal element that is the problem. As Christian communions, Catholics and Anglicans (of the more conservative faction) are very close. God bless you.

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  250. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    O what fun it has all been tonight but I must away to get my rest so I can get back to work tomorrow and help contribute to Bill’s surplus! :)

    Night y’all.

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  251. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    OMG.

    johnboy’s really lost the plot.

    Wanting Kea to come back???? Spare us – be careful what you wish for. :-)

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  252. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    Griff,

    the real danger to society are stone age, knuckle gragging racist stains like you, desperate to turn the clock back to a time when you could kick the natives and “niggers” around.

    Get with the 21st century Griff. Racism is the refuge of the irrational, the stupid, and the ignorant.

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  253. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    So, now we need middlemen in order to convey our prayers up to God?

    And why then would we pray to specific saints for specific purposes? St Christopher for travel. St Francis of Assisi for charity. (I actually quite liked St Francis of Assisi though, the story was good and the morals behind it too). St Benedict if you are studying/a student. Saint Daniel for courage (as it was he who faced the lions, I think). Even Saint Dominic for astronomers!!

    What’s wrong with appealing directly to God, like, say, the Baptists? Do you need someone that you’re on more friendly terms with to put in a good word for you?

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  254. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    Richard Dawkins and Atheist Crimes:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rory-fitzgerald/richard-dawkins-should-be_b_541387.html

    “For many years now Richard Dawkins has been working like a demon, you might say, to discredit all belief in God. He has now said that he wants to have the Pope arrested when he comes to Britain for later this year for covering up “crimes against humanity”.

    Most atheists I know are great people, sticking to the truth as they see it. Most also remain open to new possibilities and acknowledge that they are not entirely omniscient, and are respectful to those who think differently to themselves.

    Dawkins, however, often seems to have only contempt for the majority of human kind who, unlike him, do believe in the spiritual. His selective campaigning about political issues makes me wonder: is he really an objective seeker of truth, or is he someone who just hates and wants to undermine Judaeo-Christian principles?

    Dawkins has many times tried to say that Einstein was not spiritual in the way most people understand it. Yet Einstein said this:

    “My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”

    Here is perhaps the most important scientist of all time, with an incredibly profound mind, but with the humility to acknowledge how feeble and frail the human mind really is. Our universe is far from explained and the more our scientific knowledge increases, the more mysterious our reality seems to be. It is untrue to say that the settled explanation of our universe is that it is a meaningless accident that functions solely on mechanistic principles.

    Richard Dawkins has become a sort of Messiah for some atheists. He is an evolutionary biologist. I’m not sure why he feels that expertise in such an arcane field gives him authority to pronounce on spiritual questions. But, if biologists hold the keys to heaven, people may wish to consider the thoughts of Nobel Prize winning microbiologist Werner Arber, or eminent geneticist, Francis S. Collins, who led the Human Genome Project. Both are believers in God, and both find evidence for the divine in science itself. The debate about the reality of the spiritual is fascinating and is of profound importance to human kind, but Dawkins increasingly only brings to it noise and hatred.

    Dawkins is right to be angry about the awful cover up of child abuse in the Catholic Church, but he seems to have a tendency himself to be very selective in the issues he shouts about, and those he remains silent about. In that sense, he can be seen to hush up the many horrendous crimes committed by atheist ideologues in the 20th century.

    Many earlier atheistic ideologies despised Jewish and Christian thinking, and were often obsessed by natural selection. The Nazi ideology, for example, was inspired in part by philosophers like Nietzsche who proclaimed that “God is dead” and that Christian morality was a “slave morality”, not befitting an “uebermench”. Atheistic communism, as manifested in the Soviet Union, hated religion, “the opium of the masses” and it brought about the murder of millions more in Gulags and purges.

    As recently as 1979, the Cambodian genocide killed 1.7 million people. These were murdered by communist atheists. War crimes tribunals are now being set up in Phnomh Penh. The Tibetan people continue to be persecuted by an atheistic tyranny. It is perfectly reasonable to be critical of the many bad things done in the name of religion, but I don’t see Dawkins loudly decrying the actions of atheists in Cambodia or Tibet. Why? Because his preference appears to be to emphasise religiously motivated barbarism over the many wrongs prompted by some atheistic ideologies.

    Many now see Dawkins as something of a narrow-minded fundamentalist himself, increasingly redolent of a man with no sense of smell going around shrieking to everyone that their sense of smell is a delusion.

    Perhaps Dawkins imagines that by promoting his grim personal philosophy as the ultimate truth, and by viciously attacking ancient moral systems upon which Western Civilization is founded, he will bring about some sort of atheist utopia. He seeks to magnify wrongs done by religions, and to breeze over the immense horrors brought about by some atheist belief systems. Yet we have seen what atheist utopias can look like.”

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  255. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    Tictactoe.

    “So, now we need middlemen in order to convey out prayers up to God?”

    No, but it helps. Think the wedding feast of Cana. Jesus wasn’t going to do anything until Mary asked him to. Check the Old Testament. God did things when people appealed to Him – not just for themselves, but for others.

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  256. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    Exploding the False Claims of the New Atheists and revealing atheist crimes against humanity

    The Irrational Atheist: Dissecting the Unholy Trinity of Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens. By Vox Day

    “Day reveals that 52 atheist rulers in the 20th century, from 1917 to 2007, were responsible for a body count of around 148 million dead — “three times more than all the human beings killed by war, civil war and individual crime in the entire 20th century.” And so it turns out that “the average atheist crime against humanity” is “18.3 million percent worse than the very worst depredation committed by Christians.” To support these powerful refutations, Day offers footnotes on virtually every page.”

    https://www.newoxfordreview.org/reviews.jsp?did=1108-gardiner

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  257. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    Robert Royal asks: When are secularists and atheists going to do some of the repenting they expect from Christians?

    “[Atheistic] communism killed at least 100 million people in the twentieth century, 25 million in the former Soviet Union, 65 million in Communist China – in all about seventeen times as many people as there were Jews who died in the Holocaust. It is hard not to believe that the relative silence about this large fact of the last century reflects an uneasy conscience among many writers and thinkers in the West who had some share in supporting or apologizing for the most murderous regimes the world has ever seen.

    Socialist regimes committed many enormous crimes against the Church as well. Some 300,000 Catholics perished in Mexico, the first socialist country on earth after its revolution. In Spain during the Spanish Civil War, the so-called Republican forces in which anarchist and communist elements dominated, 7,000 documented cases of martyrdom occurred. Whole religious orders were wiped out. “

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  258. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    retard spawn have a look at religious society let’s have a good old stoning or two Burn few witches and heretics alive and all that lovely christ stain historical love You sick sick puppy

    AGW
    ask the poor bastards who had their houses wrecked by wind and rain last week don or the ones along the coast who had waves coming into their houses

    record drought with record rain events just like predicted The same for oozy and the states
    wait till next year as the weather is going to get real wild in places due to the first decent el nino since 1998
    its science you retarded god whacker not religion

    one has facts the other faith

    faith means belief without support

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  259. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    Yeah Shawn.

    One really does have to ask the question – apart from criticising and ridiculing religion – mainly Christians – what have the atheists done that has been positive and constructive in our world?

    The Christian church over the centuries invented and developed universities, hospitals, scientific and medical advances – 60% of the hospitals and schools in the USA were instituted by Christian churches.

    And Atheists have done these things for humanity…………
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Oohh – Nothing??? Surely not.

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  260. publicwatchdog (2,613 comments) says:

    Ok Kiwibloggers – now for some SERIOUS stuff?

    Looking forward to the considered opinions of Jordan Williams (Taxpayers’ Union), Cameron Slater, NZ political parties, mainstream media …………………
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________

    HOW CORRUPT IS NEW ZEALAND?

    Try this for size ……..

    Did you know that the NZ Auditor-General Lyn Provost is a shareholder in Sky City, but she failed to disclose this when I asked her do an inquiry into why the Organised and Financial Crime Agency of NZ (OFCANZ) had failed to do any due diligence on the increased risk of money-laundering arising from the NZ International Convention Centre Bill?

    I’ve petitioned Parliament for an inquiry:
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1404/S00334/select-committees-for-14-april-to-17-april-2014.htm
    Finance and Expenditure

    The committee met on 16 April when it further considered the 2012/13 financial review of the Earthquake Commission, and the petitions of Deidre Kent and 877 others and of Penelope Bright and 13 others.
    ………………………………..
    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/presented/petitions/50DBHOH_PET3196_1/petition-of-penelope-mary-bright-and-13-others-that-the

    Petition of Penelope Mary Bright and 13 others

    That the House conduct an urgent inquiry into why New Zealand Auditor-General Lyn Provost did not disclose that she was a shareholder in Sky City Entertainment Group Ltd at the time she declined to conduct an urgent investigation into the failure of the Organised and Financial Crime Agency of New Zealand to carry out ‘due diligence’ on the increased risk of money-laundering arising from the New Zealand International Convention Centre (Bill) 2013.

    Petition number: 2011/101
    Presented by: Denis O’Rourke
    Date presented: 12 March 2014
    Referred to: Finance and Expenditure Committee

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Quite a BIGGIE don’t you think?

    Particularly when the Office of the Auditor General is the ‘Platinum’ sponsor of Transparency International New Zealand?

    http://www.transparency.org.nz/Partners-and-Sponsors

    “Partners and Sponsors

    Cornerstone Platinum
    The Office of the Auditor General ”

    http://www.transparency.org.nz/docs/2013/Integrity-Plus-2013-New-Zealand-National-Integrity-System-Assessment-Executive-Summary.pdf

    “Overall conclusions of the report 

    New Zealand’s national integrity system remains fundamentally strong, and New Zealand is rated highly against a broad range of cross-country transparency and good governance indicators. Since the first NIS assessment of New Zealand in 2003, a welcome strengthening of transparency and accountability has occurred in some areas.

    The assessment found that the strongest pillars in the NIS are the Office of the Auditor General, the judiciary, the Electoral Commission, and the Ombudsman. …..”

    ________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Oh dear ….

    Have yet to see any public comment from Transparency International NZ (TINZ) on this above-mentioned petition for an Inquiry into the NZ Auditor General – their “CORNERSTONE PLATINUM SPONSOR” …..?

    Penny Bright

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  261. Nostradamus (3,339 comments) says:

    Yawn!

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  262. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    fuck of don thats crap
    university and eduction were an muslim idea that the western world followed after .the christian church kept knowledge away from the common man deliberately for century’s.The church destroyed the learning we inherited from the Greeks and romans hid it away from society as they realised that knowledge and religion are mutually exclusive
    Hippocratic oath predates christ stains,

    In short your full of it as usual for an apologist christ stain

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  263. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    Griff, me old mate.

    “…..ask the poor bastards who had their houses wrecked by wind and rain last week don or the ones along the coast who had waves coming into their houses”.

    I remember the same sort of thing happening in the late 1940’s when i was a kid. In 1917 , a flood occurred in the Bay of Plenty, when one could roe a boat from Te Puke to Maketu – across flooded farms etc. Hasn’t been one that bad since. I recall reading of a terrible fire in Victoria in Australia that burnt thousands of acres of land, houses, people died — no, not the ash wednesday fires of 1996 ??? – it was in 1870.

    Just a bit of severe weather griff, that we get from time to time.

    Sorry, you’ll have to do better than that.

    BTW, have you read the latest part 3 of the IPCC report? The have toned down their direpredicitons, and are starting to suggest adaptation rather than intervention – a much more sensible approach.

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  264. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    Don, Christians did not invent universities they merely founded some of them. Tarsus was the location of one of the 3 great universities of its time before the Apostle Paul was born.

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  265. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    Mmmm.

    Funny, I thought one of the first universities in Europe was the University of Paris – founded, I think, in the 9th. century. Not a muslim in sight for a thousand miles. And all that learning and education of Byzantium in Constantinople – when the muzzies got there finally in the 14 th. century, they were amazed.

    It seems your knowledge of history is about as accurate and fullsome as your advocacy for AGW – seriously flawed.

    I enjoy the crack though. Goodnite. :-)

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  266. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    SPC.

    If that’s correct, I stand corrected. Tarsus eh, a university founded by Jews and Romans – shit o dear – that’ll send griff into orbit. :-)

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  267. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    And again, I suppose one could say that the Greek centres of learning with Aristotle, Plato and the other guys could be called early universities.

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  268. SGA (1,061 comments) says:

    @ShawnLH
    Goodness, are you trying to break Ugly and Reid’s records for most cut/pastes and links in one GD!

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  269. SPC (5,636 comments) says:

    Tarsus was rated second tier behind Athens and Alexandria and was known for being a bastion of stoicism. It’s gymnasia, theater, school of art and stadium are suggestive of its (Greek) origins.

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  270. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    “[Atheistic] communism killed at least 100 million people in the twentieth century, 25 million in the former Soviet Union…

    In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.

    There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek — all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.

    “Zionism versus Bolshevism: A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People.” ILLUSTRATED SUNDAY HERALD, London, February 8, 1920. Winston Churchill.

    See, modern history has been cleansed. Guess who by. Educate yourself. And Winston was wrong on one thing. Lenin was part Jewish. Or should I say, a Jew who said he was, but wasn’t.

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  271. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    Penny Not-so, I don’t live in Auckland, but I’m gonna say it anyways:

    Pay your goddamn rates.

    I’ve never seen so much carping on and making up bullshit to justify cheap arsing out on your obligations.

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  272. publicwatchdog (2,613 comments) says:

    Who is on the Finance and Expenditure Select Committee?

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/mpp/mps/current/?pf=committeeshortname&sf=finance+and+expenditure&lgc=0

    Finance and Expenditure Chairperson Goldsmith, Paul National Party, List
    Finance and Expenditure Deputy-Chairperson Barry,Maggie National Party, North Shore
    Finance and Expenditure Member Bennett, David National Party, Hamilton East
    Finance and Expenditure Member Clark, David Labour Party, Dunedin North
    Finance and Expenditure Member Hayes, John National Party, Wairarapa
    Finance and Expenditure Member Jones, Shane Labour Party, List
    Finance and Expenditure Member Norman, Russel Green Party, List
    Finance and Expenditure Member Parker, David Labour Party, List
    Finance and Expenditure Member Peters, Winston NZ First, List
    Finance and Expenditure Member Ross, Jami-Lee National Party, Botany
    Finance and Expenditure Member Wilkinson, Kate National Party, Waimakariri
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright

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  273. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    Time to go to bed Penny.

    The strain is starting to show.

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  274. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    ShawnLH: All your copy pasting and making baseless assertations along the lines of ‘Atheists are so stupid’ (not a direct quote, but I can’t be bothered reading through your spam to find original writing from you) only serves to prove what a tool you are, without the faculties to actually debate the points at hand.

    Engaging in gish-gallop (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop, summarised as “starting 10 fires in 10 minutes.”) detracts from what could be a good and engaging conversation because no one can be bothered to read through your drivel to find your original writings, rebut them in a clear and concise manner, and hope for a clear concise reply on the specific points raised (because of course, your reply is to post yet more spam from other writers)

    Fucking pathetic.

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  275. publicwatchdog (2,613 comments) says:

    “Penny Not-so, I don’t live in Auckland, but I’m gonna say it anyways:

    Pay your goddamn rates.

    I’ve never seen so much carping on and making up bullshit to justify cheap arsing out on your obligations.”

    errrr…. is that right ‘TackyToe rag’?

    Got some FACTS and EVIDENCE which prove that I’M the one who is ‘making up bullshit’?

    (A bit of ‘projection’ happening here, perhaps?)

    And – no – I will NOT pay Auckland Council rates when their statutory duties arising from Local Government Act and the Public Records Act are not being complied with.

    YOU may be a gutless SHEEP ‘TackyToe rag’, who does not believe in citizens’ lawful rights to ‘open,transparent and democratically-accountable ‘ local government – but I am not.

    So you keep on tugging your (forelock), and whining at those of us who have the backbone to make a stand on principle defending YOUR rights …….

    Have a lovely evening – you’ve certainly helped to make mine :)

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

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  276. RichardX (326 comments) says:

    On KB it is pointless arguing the law with UT, evolution with Rowan, conspiracy theory with Reid or atheism with shawn but anyway…

    ShawnLH (1,951 comments) says:
    April 21st, 2014 at 9:13 pm
    … or visit an atheist apologetics website or blog (there are zillions of them, bearing such titles as “God Is for Suckers Winners,” “God Is Imaginary The Creator of Everything” and “God Is Pretend Real”), and your eyes will glaze over as you peruse — again and again — the obsessively tiny range of topics around which atheists apologists circle like water in a drain.

    We all realize you have so much invested in your brand of religion that you will accept nothing else but why so intolerant of atheism. I am glad to see you managed to avoid calling them Satanists anymore. The contradictions you present are amazing. The way you have stated there is no evidence for god, only faith and personal experience but then you go for the apologetics self-defeating logic to try to dismiss atheists. You state you don’t go for WL Craigs style of apologetics but you quote Matt Slick who has far less credibility. You use the argument from authority on your interpretation of the bible but don’t mention all the other Christian views that have alternative interpretations

    …few of them are interested in making serious metaphysical or epistemological arguments against God’s existence, or in taking on the serious arguments that theologians have made attempting to reconcile, say, God’s omniscience with free will or God’s goodness with human suffering.

    Theists are the ones making the claim that a god exists so the burden of proof sits squarely on your shoulders. If you can only provide faith and personal experience as reasons for why you believe in god how am I expected to hold a view other than I do not share your faith or your personal experience.
    The only other offer from you is a smattering of presuppositional apologetics which are more viciously circular than anything Matt Slick or Eric Hovind or their ilk can accuse atheists of using

    The claim of atheistic ideologues has been refuted more times than I can count yet you accuse Reid & UT as well as atheists of not understanding evidence. The irony is astounding

    Selective quotes from Einstein do not change the stance Dawkins and all people should hold on the appalling behavior of the previous pope (before he was pope) in his actions in moving sexual predator priests to avoid secular justice
    Will the priests who committed these crimes but admitted to heaven? Of course they will if you believe their doctrine. Is this an example of justice from god for which Jesus made the sacrifice you believe he made?

    And somehow it is the atheists that are intellectually dishonest….you really need to do better

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  277. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    Haha Penny Not-so, you are so fucking weird and off your rocker.

    Also, I think you forgot to add on “Meant of course in a caring way” to your little insults… I’m beginning to feel like you don’t care about me at all :'(

    :D

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  278. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    RichardX,

    Given the many posts above I think we can safely conclude:

    Atheism is a mindless cult let by intellectually dishonest charlatans like Dawkins.

    The burden of proof is on atheists to prove that their violent cult will make society better. Exhibit A against this idea: Griff, a racist thug who’s ideology is a mix of Nazism and Stalinism.

    Atheism, being a cult, is a tiny fraction of humanity. It has created nothing of value at any point in history. It cannot lay claim to having founded any civilisation. The only real world examples have all been mass murdering totalitarian states.

    You need to better Richard, and explain why the rest of humanity should even bother to take atheists seriously.

    Personally, I don’t. Most atheists are emotionally stunted psychopaths, Griff being a perfect example.

    You have nothing to offer the world except hate, irrational ideology, and mass murder.

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  279. publicwatchdog (2,613 comments) says:

    Which FACTS do you particularly dislike ‘Tacky Toe rag’ ?

    You poor wee thing.

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz

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  280. SGA (1,061 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 11:30 pm

    Atheism is a mindless cult let by intellectually dishonest charlatans like Dawkins.

    Prattling on about Dawkins and cults is just silly. The people you argue with on this blog rarely mention him at all – you’re much more likely to bring him up than they are. How often do they post lengthy quotes from his work? They’re actually more likely to quote from the bible. I suspect that fewer of them have bothered to read Dawkins than you’d expect. He seems more your obsession than theirs.

    Atheists aren’t a particularly organised group as a general rule. There’s not a recognised heirarchy, leaders and “required readings” in the same way that, say, the Anglican church has. If Dawkins, Hutchins (sp?), and Meyers got run over by a bus tomorrow, no new “appointments” would need to be made.

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  281. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    Penny Not-so:

    The fact that you’re a thief.
    You don’t pay your rates.
    You use services that those rates pay for. There is no way to get round this. If you walk, you’re using rate funded concrete paths. If you drive, you’re using rate funded roads. If you take public transportation, you’re using rate funded bus and train services.
    Do you go to any parks? That’s rate funded.
    How do you get rid of your rubbish? If you use the normal pick up services, that’s also rate funded. If you use the dump which is usually subisided by councils, then that’s rate funded. If you were in another city, you’d also not be paying for the water you’d be using as well.

    There is no escaping this fact: you are a thief, a charlatan and a hypocrite.

    And since you LOVE links (as you post so many) here’s one for you:

    http://bit.ly/1jutvBM

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  282. Left Right and Centre (2,983 comments) says:

    Unlike these other twats my personal Lord and Saviour is a daily contributor to this otherwise fine blog. I can prove His existence. Well – I might have to stalk Him down to prove it but you know what I mean.

    Thank fuck Easter is over. What a load of bollocks.

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  283. big bruv (13,923 comments) says:

    ShawnLH

    “You have nothing to offer the world except hate, irrational ideology, and mass murder”

    You have just described religion perfectly. Given that you are intellectually stunted due to the poison of religion I do not expect you to see the truth.

    Religion hates all other religions and particularly hates unbelievers.
    Religion is totally irrational. Born of a virgin mother????…come on, nobody really believes that. Why does religion see the birth canal as a one way passage?
    Religion is responsible for more mass murder than anything committed in the name of atheism.

    Stop telling lies Shawn.

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