General Debate 25 April 2014

April 25th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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262 Responses to “General Debate 25 April 2014”

  1. big bruv (13,880 comments) says:

    Did Cuntliffe manage to make it to a Dawn Parade?

    If so then good in him, unlike Helen Clark who disgracefully refused to attend Dawn Service as she could not be bothered getting up early. I think the words she used were “I don’t do mornings”.

    Of course those words were so like her, a selfish narcissist who never thought to consider that ANZAC day was not all about her.

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  2. Odakyu-sen (637 comments) says:

    ANZAC DAY, to remember the sacrifices of our forebears made to preserve New Zealand for future New Zealanders, so that they would be able to own their own land and preserve their culture and heritage for their children.

    So remind me again why 25% of Aucklanders are foreign born and why a Kiwi struggles so much to afford a house in Auckland. Who voted for that to happen?

    Thank goodness New Zealanders don’t have a strong sense of identity; it makes it so much easier for the State to take it away from them.

    Now, where did I put my Made-in-China ANZAC poppy?

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  3. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    Nanny State do gooders.
    On a day when we remember men and women who fought to for right to be free and to make our own decisions this little piece of bullying comes to light.
    A govt. sponsored cartel robs a women of her bequeathed inheritance. All because someone decided that they had a better right to charge for a service than a person whose service was freely given and whose service was rewarded by those serviced.
    No law was broken, apparently the people who benefited from the service were happy with their bequeath, freely given. It was after all their money.

    These Nazi’s need rooting out and they should be required to compensate in full + a deterrent fee the lady whose has been robbed.

    Legal fees soak up bequest to nurse
    A Christchurch nurse bequeathed $315,000 by a couple she cared for before their deaths says she spent almost all of it on legal fees to clear her name.

    Judith Lynch, 57, said yesterday she was “ecstatic” the New Zealand Health Practitioners Disciplinary Tribunal (NZHPDT) had dismissed two charges of professional misconduct against her.

    Alex Allardyce said earlier he accepted the NZHPDT decision and was grateful for the care Lynch gave his parents in their later years of life.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/9976470/Legal-fees-soak-up-bequest-to-nurse

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  4. big bruv (13,880 comments) says:

    Are we allowed to spit on or punch those wearing a white poppy today?

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  5. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Meteria turie called Jones a 19th Century man in a 21st Century world; it could be worse than that (however):
    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/feminists-are-afraid-of-evolutionary-psychology-and-with-good-reason/

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  6. lilman (957 comments) says:

    Somme -great uncle died.Very sad ,hoping to get to service in Europe,on bucket list.

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  7. SGA (1,017 comments) says:

    big bruv at 8:20 am

    Are we allowed to spit on or punch those wearing a white poppy today?

    Tricky – it might be making a mockery of the very freedoms they fought for.

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  8. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    Odakyu-sen:

    Right. So ANZAC Day has apparently become about housing prices in Auckland and immigration rates?

    Seriously?

    New Zealand before WWI was largely an immigrant country, much of the population was immigrants and their children settling here. Many of those who served were children and grandchildren of immigrants and some were probably immigrants themselves. They gave their lives so that all New Zealand citizens could live their lives in peace in this country.

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  9. Scott Chris (6,133 comments) says:

    In 1966, the shiny new 18-storey, glass-clad Auckland City administration building might not have been the world’s tallest skyscraper, but it was the highest in New Zealand…..

    Now, less than 50 years later, it’s deemed past its use-by date. Councillors have been presented with two options. Knock the building down and landscape the site, or spend at least $70 million on a refit….

    The officials do concede possible grounds for a reprieve. They admit their death sentence was passed without taking into account “the heritage considerations of the building”.

    I’ve had a mole on my arse for the past few decades but I don’t consider it to have any heritage value simply because it’s been there for a long time.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11243693

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  10. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Some wear white big bro

    To remember the collateral damage.

    Irene, Barberton, Volksrust, Belfast,
    Klerksdorp, Pietersburg, Potchefstroom, Vereeniging, Turffontein, Balmoral,
    Nylstroom, Standerton, Heilbron, Kimberley, Bloemfontein, Middelburg, Kroonstad,
    Heidelberg, Krugersdorp, Vryburg, Vredefort, Brandfort, Springfontein, Bethulie,
    Norvalspont, Port Elizabeth, Aliwal North, Merebank, Pinetown, Howick and
    Pietermaritzburg.

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  11. Odakyu-sen (637 comments) says:

    “So ANZAC Day has apparently become about housing prices in Auckland and immigration rates?”

    No, it’s just that we seem to have forgotten the principles behind the sacrifices of the ANZACS. On one hand we get all emotional and gush about remembering; while on the other we seem to forget what they fought for.

    The housing prices and immigration are merely the symptom. It’s the disease I’m worried about…

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  12. fernglas (157 comments) says:

    My grandfather fought in the First World War. Although he was born here he always called the UK home, as I believe many or most of those soldiers did. He never owned his own home, nor did he expect to. While the sacrifice those soldiers made should never be forgotten, it is wrong to impute motives and ideals to them in order to further a 21st century political agenda. Did he fight for a New Zealand culture and heritage? I doubt he thought of it in those terms, but fight he did, and whatever his motives, his service made this country what it is today, for better or worse.

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  13. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ Tictactoe

    True, although predominantly “white British” settler New Zealand of the era was even MORE anti-Chinese than today. R J Seddon was a virulent peddler of the “Yellow Peril” myth and made Winston Peters look like a multi-culturalist. The 50 pound poll tax directed solely at Chinese immigrants remained in place until it was abolished during World War II, when the Chinese were acknowledged as an ally in the war against Japan.

    Not justifying then or now, but just keeping it real. However, I’ll acknowledge the implicit point that in fighting for freedom and democracy against Prussian and Turkish militarism the ANZACs were also fighting for our country to develop in the future in a way they would have likely disagreed with in the main, e.g., homosexual law reform, feminism, Maori sovereignty…

    White poppies. Hmm. I don’t agree with conscientious objection, certainly not in the context of World War I – contrary to myth it was a just war. However, I can acknowledge the incredible bravery of many of the conshies.

    However, white poppy supporters need to find another day. ANZAC Day has developed, and is no longer about glorifying war (not that that was EVER its primary purpose anyway).

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  14. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “Irene, Barberton, Volksrust, Belfast,
    Klerksdorp, Pietersburg, Potchefstroom, Vereeniging, Turffontein, Balmoral,
    Nylstroom, Standerton, Heilbron, Kimberley, Bloemfontein, Middelburg, Kroonstad,
    Heidelberg, Krugersdorp, Vryburg, Vredefort, Brandfort, Springfontein, Bethulie,
    Norvalspont, Port Elizabeth, Aliwal North, Merebank, Pinetown, Howick and
    Pietermaritzburg.”

    I seem to recall that the folks who ultimately lost that war in 1902…won the peace in 1910…and they triumphed via the ballot box in 1948.

    At the expense of the majority of the population…

    Kitchener’s concentration camps were long gone by 1915, when the ANZACs waded ashore. At the same time ex-Boer generals Louis Botha and Jannie Smuts were leading an invading force into German South West Africa, and recruiting and organising like we were, to do our bit for international collective security.

    Find a different day than April 25 to wear your white poppy in memory of a people who were victims of the unjust war of 1899-1902.

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  15. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Tictactoe (19 comments) says:
    New Zealand before WWI was largely an immigrant country, much of the population was immigrants and their children settling here. Many of those who served were children and grandchildren of immigrants and some were probably immigrants themselves. They gave their lives so that all New Zealand citizens could live their lives in peace in this country.
    ……
    you might be right about history but your conclusion is wrong.

    4.3 The Reddell hypothesis
    Two recent discussion papers by Reddell (2013a, 2013b) which raise the possibility that
    immigration could cause potentially large negative macroeconomic effects in New Zealand
    have generated considerable debate. Given the policy implications should the hypothesis
    be correct, this paper discusses Reddell’s ideas, and responses to them, in some detail.

    Reddell sets out to explain several key stylised facts about New Zealand’s economic
    performance: that despite far-reaching economic reforms, New Zealand has had weak
    productivity performance, consistently high real interest rates, and a high average real
    140
    exchange rate (along with a large negative Net International Investment Position (NIIP)).

    Reddell explores the possibility that persistent excess demand created by high levels of
    inward migration in an economy with quite a low national savings rate could explain why
    New Zealand’s increasingly large productivity gap has not led to the fall in the real
    141
    exchange rate that theory would predict.

    The Reddell story is not about immigration generally being bad or economically negative.
    In fact, Reddell states that “in general, my reading of the evidence is that it makes quite a
    142
    small difference either way.” Rather, Reddell argues that in assessing the potential
    impact of migration, it is important to pay attention to the characteristics of individual
    country experiences, and the possible role of combinations of circumstances. In
    New Zealand, migration policy has made a large difference to population growth,
    throughout history and over the past 20 years.

    In the late 19th century and early 20th century, immigration to New Zealand could be seen
    as reflecting a favourable shock to the tradable sector. Opening up new lands to
    production, falling transport costs, refrigerated shipping combined to lift the population
    capacity of New Zealand while still offering high wages and high rates of return.

    By the middle of the 20th century, New Zealand was settled and producing, and
    technological change in the key export sectors was no longer as rapid (relative to other
    producers). The factor price equalisation justification for strong population growth had
    dissipated, yet population growth remained high. Across the OECD, there is some
    evidence that rapid population growth in post-war advanced countries was associated with
    143
    an apparent cost to per capita growth rates.

    Indeed, in the period between the end of the Second World War and the late 1970s, the
    New Zealand debate about immigration was primarily about its macroeconomic impact.
    Economists such as Belshaw (1952), Gould (1982), Holmes (1966), Hawke (1985, 1981)
    and others warned that immigration shocks in a supply-constrained economy with low
    unemployment would generate excess demand, inflationary pressure and a deterioration
    144
    in the balance of payments.
    //
    Reddell’s hypothesis is that substantial inflows of non-New Zealand citizens (comprising
    around 80% of average population growth over the past two decades) have resulted in
    pressure on infrastructure (housing, local government services, schools and hospitals)
    146
    and capital in the workplace. The real investment needs of a rising population have
    outstripped the available (quite modest) rate of national savings. The reason for focusing
    on non-citizen arrivals is that these reflect a policy choice: in the absence of these inflows,
    147
    New Zealand would still have experienced a rise in population from natural increase.

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2014/14-10
    Migration and Macroeconomic
    Performance in New Zealand:
    Theory and Evidence
    Julie Fry
    New Zealand Treasury Working Paper 14/10

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  16. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    I don’t wear ether
    Not in my ethos to present external tokens of internal beliefs.
    Just sayin
    Big bruv is part yarpie
    My ancestors were fighting on the other side.
    White recognises that war is not only the suffering of direct combatants.

    About the white poppy

    http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/poppy09.htm

    The white poppy is an international symbol of remembrance for all the casualties of war – civilians and armed forces personnel – and of peace. Some people see it as an alternative to the red poppy, others see it as complementary; some choose to wear both poppies, some one or the other, and some no poppy at all. A brief history of the white poppy is available below.

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  17. cha (4,008 comments) says:

    Remembering Campbell Howard Buchanan.

    They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:

    Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

    At the going down of the sun and in the morning,

    We will remember them.

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  18. flipper (4,050 comments) says:

    White poppies. Hmm. I don’t agree with conscientious objection, certainly not in the context of World War I – contrary to myth it was a just war. However, I can acknowledge the incredible bravery of many of the conshies.

    However, white poppy supporters need to find another day. ANZAC Day has developed, and is no longer about glorifying war (not that that was EVER its primary purpose anyway).
    ******

    The only reason they attract attention is because they have passed-off their disrespectful beliefs on the back of ANZAC.

    They will not choose another day because they know it will attract no mire than a couple of hundred of the customary left wing rentacrowd.

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  19. doggone7 (801 comments) says:

    big bruv

    I can’t recall hearing at our parade and ceremony this morning that it was all about having freedom and then the exhortation to go and punch someone because of that freedom.

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  20. Scott Chris (6,133 comments) says:

    Thank goodness New Zealanders don’t have a strong sense of identity; it makes it so much easier for the State to take it away from them.

    I disagree with this sentiment. In my experience the multifaceted Kiwi self-identification has improved in recent times regardless of what the State may or may not have done.

    In short, I’ve seen New Zealand mature somewhat in the last 30 or 40 years even if we are still prone to occasional bouts of cringing insecurity. (such as the gratuitous media fawning over the recent royal roadshow)

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  21. Yoza (1,872 comments) says:

    big bruv (12,388 comments) says:
    April 25th, 2014 at 8:20 am

    Are we allowed to spit on or punch those wearing a white poppy today?

    My grandmother’s father was killed at the battle of Passchendaele. Her husband and my grandfather served in North Africa and Italy from 1940 until the he was seriously injured near the end of the war, his brother went down over the Zuiderzee. Both of these grandparents would have no problem with white poppies and I am sure they would have been quite disgusted with the hollow posturing and glorification of war to which ANZAC day has descended.
    My grandfather, who served in North Africa and Italy ended the war with the rank of regimental and was president of the Wanganui RSA, he was vehemently opposed to the invasion of Vietnam and was drummed out of the Wanganui RSA for suggesting they take an apolitical stance to the invasion.

    Reading a nonentity like Bg Bruv advocating the use of violence against people campaigning for peace is a testament to the farce ANZAC day has become.

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  22. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    LEST WE FORGET

    VNV NATION – HONOUR – FROM THE ALBUM ‘PRAISE THE FALLEN’

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  23. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “About the white poppy…Some people see it as an alternative to the red poppy, others see it as complementary”

    Yeah, nah.

    Find another date. Full Stop.

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  24. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    And i n the past immigration policy based on cultural similarity whereas now there is an attempt to prove that that doesn’t (shouldn’t) matter ( abit like people all at a different party in the same space).

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  25. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “is a testament to the farce ANZAC day has become.”

    I disagree. ANZAC day has not descended into anything other than what it is supposed to be, a remembrance and honouring of those who fought.

    Big Bruv’s immature posturing is wrong, but it would also be wrong to use one or two people’s silliness to attack ANZAC day itself. In fact, your own post comes close to descending to the same level as his.

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  26. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Scott Chris (5,684 comments) says:
    In my experience the multifaceted Kiwi self-identification has improved in recent times regardless of what the State may or may not have done.
    …….
    so self identification has improved. Are you talking quaility or quantity?

    In short, I’ve seen New Zealand mature somewhat in the last 30 or 40 years even if we are still prone to occasional bouts of cringing insecurity. (such as the gratuitous media fawning over the recent royal roadshow)

    …..
    so your argument is that a multi identity NZ is mature (= better, improved ) .How so?
    What about community cohesion?

    More than 94 per cent of Chinese permanent residents and more than half of those with NZ citizenship told University of Auckland researchers that they felt a greater sense of belonging and identified more with their country of origin than New Zealand.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/multiculturalism/news/article.cfm?c_id=58&objectid=10783815

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  27. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    ““is a testament to the farce ANZAC day has become.”

    I disagree”.

    Me too.

    ANZAC Day, like the Monarchy, and knighthoods is not locked in time. Some of the outward forms remain the same. Yet they are all capable of being reinterpreted and reapplied by succeeding generations in ways that are relevant and meaningful – as they have.

    Unlike, it would seem, hard-left political dogma and discourse…

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  28. cha (4,008 comments) says:

    Are we allowed to spit on or punch those wearing a white poppy today?

    That you’d like to assault my 86 year old mum says it all really.

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  29. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Just to stir the pot a little on this fine Anzac Day, to point out what should be obvious to those people who think that criminal legal aid should not be granted to repeat offenders.

    From the Innocence Project:

    Innocent Defendants Plead Guilty in Drug Cases

    Posted: April 24, 2014 4:30 pm

    In two articles this week, the Austin American-Statesman reported that 21 men and women in Texas were recently exonerated of drug convictions to which many plead guilty. Many of the defendants had prior convictions when they were arrested for possession of illegal drugs. Consequently, the bond was set higher than what most of the 21 individuals could pay, causing them to remain in jail while awaiting judgment. The wait created pressure for early plea bargains, and as a result, many sat in prison for years before a delayed forensic lab report proved their innocence.
     
    According to the reports, the two forensic lab systems, operated by the Houston Police Department and the state Department of Public Safety, said their large caseloads meant that waits of six months or more for test results were common. More than half of the wrongful drug convictions occurred in Houston with the rest spread out between Williamson, Ellis, Galveston, Angelina and Montgomery counties.
     
    Out of the 21 cases, only two of the drug case exonerees have received compensation from the state. Texas’ compensation statute provides the wrongly convicted with $80,000 per year of wrongful imprisonment with no maximum total.

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  30. Tauhei Notts (1,710 comments) says:

    Griffith; thank you posting that list of infamous concentration camps.
    I hope it is not too flippant to record that I was a casualty at Turffontein; a casualty of the bookmakers.

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  31. Paulus (2,626 comments) says:

    Do I now see that the Nigella Visa scheme is a media beatup as she had not ever been refused a US entry.

    Was the media beatup to embarrass the Immigration Department in Election Year ?

    Obviously Cunliffe and Prasad were on to it.

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  32. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “And i n the past immigration policy based on cultural similarity”

    Was it really? From what I have heard there was a time when Dutch immigrants were considered strange and different, and there was a fair amount of soft-bigotry with regards to them.

    Things change.

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  33. flipper (4,050 comments) says:

    hj (5,712 comments) says:

    April 25th, 2014 at 9:08 am

    And i n the past immigration policy based on cultural similarity whereas now there is an attempt to prove that that doesn’t (shouldn’t) matter ( abit like people

    *******

    Boring…. Boring…. Boring…. Go away bore.

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  34. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Dear dear authoritarians rising to top …EH…
    Its poppy day historical celebrated on armistice day ya ken Flanders fields and all

    Remembrance Day (also known as Poppy Day or Armistice Day) is a memorial day observed in Commonwealth countries since the end of World War I to remember the members of their armed forces who have died in the line of duty. This day, or alternative dates, are also recognised as special days for war remembrances in many non-Commonwealth countries. Remembrance Day is observed on 11 November to recall the end of hostilities of World War I on that date in 1918. Hostilities formally ended “at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month,”

    So on closer examination of history it aint the right day for red

    The sale of which I understand goes to fund the rsa Pissup venues
    As I am anti alcohol why would I support a club that has generated tens of thousands of hopeless alcoholics over the years.

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  35. cha (4,008 comments) says:

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  36. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    As I am anti alcohol why would I support a club that has generated tens of thousands of hopeless alcoholics over the years.

    What a revolting, small-minded, purse-lipped, finger-wagging prick you are griff.

    And I thought your blatent lying and fundamental dishonesty were your worse faults.

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  37. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    We must be due for another call by the NZIER for a larger population despite it already happening:

    Relative to other OECD countries, New Zealand has high rates of population inflow and
    outflow. These are related: there has been a deliberate policy choice since the early
    1990s to more than replace departing New Zealanders with immigrants. Significant
    benefits were anticipated from increasing the number and quality of people working within
    New Zealand’s reformed economy and institutions.

    and being considered a failure (after 20 years).

    At that time, it was considered that skills-focused inward migration could: improve growth
    by bringing in better quality human capital and addressing skills shortages; improve
    international connections and boost trade; help mitigate the effects of population ageing;
    and have beneficial effects on fiscal balance. As well as “replacing” departing
    New Zealanders and providing particular help with staffing public services (for example,
    medical professionals), it was believed that migration flows could be managed so as to
    avoid possible detrimental effects (such as congestion or poorer economic prospects) for
    existing New Zealanders.

    Since then, New Zealand has had substantial gross and net immigration, which has been
    relatively skill-focused by international standards. However, New Zealand’s economic
    performance has not been transformed. Growth in GDP per capita has been relatively
    lacklustre, with no progress in closing income gaps with the rest of the advanced world,
    and productivity performance has been poor. It may be that initial expectations about the
    potential positive net benefits of immigration were too high.

    Based on a large body of new research evidence and practical experience, the consensus
    among policymakers now is that other factors are more important for per capita growth

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2014/14-10

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  38. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    HJ…

    My conclusion had nothing to do with economics or policies or whatever the fuck you’re on about.

    Odakyu-sen
    “The housing prices and immigration are merely the symptom. It’s the disease I’m worried about…”

    So what’s the disease? You aren’t quite clear.
    If it’s about whether you think we don’t have a “strong” national identity of what it means to be a New Zealander, then that’s your problem.

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  39. Scott Chris (6,133 comments) says:

    I am sure they would have been quite disgusted with the hollow posturing and glorification of war to which ANZAC day has descended.

    Yeah maybe. I guess it’s just part of the human condition that we have a propensity to romanticise the past which is duly amplified via a news/media feedback loop.

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  40. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    So on closer examination of history it aint the right day for red

    ho hum. In Australasia we celebrate it as April 25, not November 11, and have done since the early 1920s, with application to ALL who have served in ALL conflicts. Which, given what the Galipolli campaign did to forge an Australian and New Zealand identity is particularly apt. Or isn’t an authentic national identity on your agneda – or at least not when it suits yoir views?

    “The sale of which I understand goes to fund the rsa Pissup venues…”

    Now you are just all over the place. You are too sophisticated “to present external tokens of internal beliefs”? Good for you. So why scorn those who do?

    The phrase “knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing” seems particularly apt…

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  41. flipper (4,050 comments) says:

    FES….
    Your excellent contribution raises more questions in relation to other cases which, for the sake of avoiding a diversionary debate, should not be mentioned by name. But there is an interesting link between the $80,000 per year and what was paid to A A Thomas many years ago.

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  42. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    griffith
    ‘The sale of which I understand goes to fund the rsa Pissup venues’
    A fairly common misunderstanding. All the proceeds from poppy sales goes to RNZRSA welfare funds. They do a lot of work supporting veterans in need.

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  43. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    In time Anzac Day may, for better or worse, morph into something different from what we practise now. Meantime, at least so long as there are surviving servicemen, it should be a day for honouring those who served in the name of our country & nothing else.

    For all the peacenik yap above, I’ve seldom witnessed Anzac Day being used to glorify war. The people who served & those who died did so at the behest of the governments of the time…..protest against war should be directed at those who declare wars, not those who fought them.

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  44. Harriet (4,967 comments) says:

    “…….unlike Helen Clark who disgracefully refused to attend Dawn Service as she could not be bothered getting up early. I think the words she used were “I don’t do mornings”………Of course those words were so like her, a selfish narcissist who never thought to consider that ANZAC day was not all about her….”

    But it was Hulun who opposed the aussie idea of getting Johhny Farnham & co to ‘warm up’ the ANZAC Cove crowd at Gallipoli.

    As I said to some Aussie blokes at the time………..” if they start going down that path then expect in a few years time to have some fucken John Lennon look-a-like singing fucken peace songs at Gallipoli.” :cool:

    White poppies proves that I’d be right about that!

    “…..Are we allowed to spit on or punch those wearing a white poppy today?….”

    Yep, bash the fuck out of them……..because if you go down that path of allowing them to wear white poppies then they will no doubt build upon that acceptance……..

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  45. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    flipper (3,276 comments) says:
    Boring…. Boring…. Boring…. Go away bore.
    ……..

    I suppose if you benefit from immigration you need to lobby and I see the construction industry has grown by 10,000 firms since 2002
    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11160225

    Property rights
    refrom RMA
    build what you like where you like
    sell to anyone aywhere
    ramp up immigration
    oppose land tax
    oppose capital gains tax
    oppose development levy
    support accommodation supplement

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  46. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Wat it always amuses me when wing nuts come out and attack me

    projection bro

    Anti doesn’t mean I want it banned totally. You know the scene where half a dozen cops and a dog turn up at a sixteen year olds parents house because he brewed up a couple of pints of beer arresting the kid and giving him a conviction that will destroy his chance of a decent job or travelling over sea for life .

    I just want it recognised and treated honestly in comparison with other recreational drugs .

    As alcohol is one of the most damaging recreational drugs it should be more restricted than say opium.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_%28physical_harm_and_dependence%2C_NA_free_means%29.svg

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  47. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yes Harriet, ‘bash the fuck’ out of cha’s 86-year old mother. Will that get it out of your system, or will you be content to rant incoherently on this blog.

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  48. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    For all the peacenik yap above, I’ve seldom witnessed Anzac Day being used to glorify war

    Yep. Speak to the men and women who fought and they are invariably unanimous – “war is an awful thing, and should be avoided if possible”.

    But it would seem that the hard-left peaceniks simply want to drown out all debate on whether, as terrible as it is, war sometimes has to be waged, because the alternative is even worse.

    And if so, how do you decide?

    And if that is so, how do you treat seriously the peacenik argument when, like the Vatican’s response to birth control, they always come up with the same answer, no matter what the context?

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  49. dog_eat_dog (780 comments) says:

    Good to see the racists capitalising on a remembrance day to push their fear of the ‘other’. Stay classy guys.

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  50. cha (4,008 comments) says:

    COMMON FORM

    If any question why we died,
    Tell them, because our fathers lied.

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  51. Scott Chris (6,133 comments) says:

    so your argument is that a multi identity NZ is mature (= better, improved ) .How so?
    What about community cohesion?

    Hj, I suspect you’ll find that most immigrants want to be socially cohesive. It’s people like you who don’t want to be.

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  52. OneTrack (3,088 comments) says:

    griffith – Thanks for that. So all the posturing lefties and their protest white poppies should be wearing them on November 11th. Leaving ANZAC for remembrance of the ANZACs and Gallipoli.

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  53. Harriet (4,967 comments) says:

    “……And how do you treat seriously the peacenik argument when, like the Vatican’s response to birth control, they always come up with the same answer, no matter what the context?…”

    Kimbo started the religious debate today! :cool:

    Should prayers stay being said on ANZAC Day?

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  54. RF (1,396 comments) says:

    I am aware that the true red poppies were once made in Christchurch by a local organisation similar to the Sheltered Workshops. Some bright spark in the RSA decided that it would be cheaper to have them made in China.

    Not sure of the outcome but there were boycotts and the donations were down for several years.

    As for the white poppies If the greens have anything to do with them I presume they come from some communist country and made by slave labour.

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  55. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “Should prayers stay being said on ANZAC Day?”

    Yes, absolutely.

    ‘GOD – COUNTRY – FAMILY’

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  56. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    ‘GOD – COUNTRY – FAMILY’

    You left out ‘QUEEN’!

    In answer to Harriet

    YES!

    They are part of the original form of military service as well as remembrance, and other than amongst the ideologically fussy (usually a minority in New Zealand and Australia – thankfully!) there is no groundswell to change that.

    But ultimately that is a question for the armed services and RSA/RSL to decide…

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  57. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    ya can only wear the badge We say ya can on the day we tell you to

    If We say wear a black crooked cross on white with red background ya better take note .

    Back to the camps with ya

    (sarc)

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  58. Harriet (4,967 comments) says:

    “…..Hj, I suspect you’ll find that most immigrants want to be socially cohesive. It’s people like you who don’t want to be….”

    Define ‘socially cohesive’.

    How come doors and windows on homes are now locked when 40yrs ago they weren’t?

    There is no such thing as ‘social cohesiveness’ in NZ anymore.

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  59. Yoza (1,872 comments) says:

    OneTrack (1,982 comments) says:
    April 25th, 2014 at 9:47 am

    griffith – Thanks for that. So all the posturing lefties and their protest white poppies should be wearing them on November 11th. Leaving ANZAC for remembrance of the ANZACs and Gallipoli.

    I am fairly certain the original red poppies weren’t worn to celebrate the nobility of war, or whatever it is you and others seem to imply they represent.

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  60. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Harry it

    Is NZ cultural cohesion something you can divine from bending bananas ?

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  61. OneTrack (3,088 comments) says:

    Yoza – I think they were to remember the fallen servicemen, not an anti-war message which the white poppy obviously is.

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  62. Nostalgia-NZ (5,191 comments) says:

    Forgot to note what colour poppies people were wearing at the parade this morning, I was thinking about loss for some reason.

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  63. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    Harriet:

    40 years ago you probably didn’t have as much valuables in your houses to steal.

    Did you have expensive and in demand, easily portable electronic devices such as TVs and iPads? Stereos? Did your car have an immobiliser requiring car thieves to actually nick your key first to nick the car? Etc.

    Of course, this may just be me being young and naive…

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  64. Scott Chris (6,133 comments) says:

    as terrible as it is, war sometimes has to be waged, because the alternative is even worse.

    Some wars are (subjectively) just. Others aren’t. It seems quite appropriate to me that on the day that dead soldiers are commemorated both kinds of war are represented with both red and white poppies.

    It ain’t raining on anyone’s parade imo. It’s a cultural check and balance.

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  65. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    Also. Insurance companies today would rightly tell you to fuck right off if you tried to claim for theft while having unlocked doors and windows.

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  66. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Scott Chris (5,686 comments) says:

    Hj, I suspect you’ll find that most immigrants want to be socially cohesive. It’s people like you who don’t want to be.
    ……….
    the problem I have with that notion is that immigration is not stopping; is never stopping, untill westerners living standars equal the rest of the world (except for an elite).
    As Reddell points out NZ (a far-flung agricultural nation) plateaued when the hill country came into production. Population growth continued neverthelesss (for ideological reasons and to fuel the development construction industry).

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  67. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    ya can only wear the badge We say ya can on the day we tell you to

    And here’s what I REALLY loathe about whining lefties on the day when we remember GENUINE bravery and sacrifice. Their propensity to play the victim, and portray their contrarinous as a noble struggle, rather than simply holding an alternate opinion…like we are all allowed to – and invariably do on something or anything.

    No, griff, NO ONE is forcing you or denying your essential freedoms. Go for it.

    Just don’t expect us to fawn or cheer like the rest of the intelligentsia, sophisticates and chattering classes you circulate in while you do your self-indulgent victory laps.

    And THAT is what the ANZACs ultimately fought for…

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  68. Southern Raider (1,829 comments) says:

    Any one else find the comments on JKs Facebook page constantly concerning?

    There is some seriously fucked up, demented and overly angry people out there.

    Yes rant and rave about nationals polices if you don’t like them, but how the fuck does a picture of JK with a dog or playing dodge ball with some school kids become a JK hate wall.

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  69. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    I’ve seldom witnessed Anzac Day being used to glorify war…

    It tends instead to be hijacked by the church to glorify Yahweh; a deity which noticeably failed to do jack shit to prevent the most obscene atrocities.

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  70. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    LEFTY

    Witness a simple mind at work.

    You can deduce my entire political standpoint from posts on the appropriateness of a white poppy on Anzac day..being in support of the right to wear white means I am a socialist not a capitalist.

    Liberal is the word you are looking for .

    Liberal / conservative is not on the same plane as right / left in the political landscape .

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  71. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “It seems quite appropriate to me that on the day that dead soldiers are commemorated both kinds of war are represented with both red and white poppies”

    Two problems. I think ANZAC already serves just fine as a time to stop and think about how wars can be prevented.

    The other essential problem is that white poppies at this time is confusing “brands” (and I mean that in a non-commercial sense) for an already existing national institution – one that has existed for nearly 100 years.

    Even more than Christmas and Easter, and certainly Waitangi, Anzac is the most “holy” day in our essentially secular national calendar. Until such time as there is a genuine groundswell (and there is none, because people immediately discern the essential ambushing of the red poppy tradition), the white poppy campaign should be frozen out of any official recognition.

    The UN has Saptember 21 as International Peace Day. THAT is where white poppies belong. If it gets no wide acceptance or traction…tough. Don’t bludge on an existing day on the national calendar.

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  72. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    LEFTY intelligentsia, sophisticates and chattering classes you circulate in

    Witness a simple mind at work.

    You can deduce my entire political standpoint from posts on the appropriateness of a white poppy on Anzac day..being in support of the right to wear white means I am a socialist not a capitalist.

    Liberal is the word you are looking for .

    Liberal / conservative is not on the same plane as right / left in the political landscape .

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  73. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    Southern Raider:

    I think those people just become irrationally angry when JK does things that do not fit into their preconceived notions of him being a rich, fat, lazy arse who has no soul or humanity. Or some such shit.

    They also get angrier when they realise all the crap and labels they flung at JK are actually really applicable to their current leader, Cunliffe. Shifty? Dodgy? Rich bastard? All Cunliffe…

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  74. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “LEFTY…

    Liberal is the word you are looking for .

    Liberal / conservative is not on the same plane as right / left in the political landscape”

    And now you argue “tomato-tomatoe”, while avoiding the essential issue you raised.

    OK. so to keep you happy: How about “whiner”? Because that label sure seems to fit…

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  75. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    “Should prayers stay being said on ANZAC Day?”

    Yes, absolutely.

    ‘GOD – COUNTRY – FAMILY’

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  76. stephieboy (3,004 comments) says:

    I wonder if Shane Jones will be continuing his campaign against Countdown with John Key’s blessings .?

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  77. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    E Pluribus Unum : Diversity and
    Community in the Twenty-first Century

    Robert D. Putnam*
    Ethnic diversity is increasing in most advanced countries, driven mostly by sharp increases in
    immigration. In the long run immigration and diversity are likely to have important cultural,
    economic, fiscal, and developmental benefits. In the short run, however, immigration and ethnic
    diversity tend to reduce social solidarity and social capital. New evidence from the US suggests
    that in ethnically diverse neighbourhoods residents of all races tend to ‘hunker down’. Trust
    (even of one’s own race) is lower, altruism and community cooperation rarer, friends fewer. In
    the long run, however, successful immigrant societies have overcome such fragmentation by
    creating new, cross-cutting forms of social solidarity and more encompassing identities. Illustra-
    tions of becoming comfortable with diversity are drawn from the US military, religious institu-
    tions, and earlier waves of American immigration.

    He sat on the study for 5 years

    As you will see when you read “E Pluribus Unum,”
    my intention is not to argue against diversity and
    immigration but to point out that if we do nothing,
    the reweaving of our communities may take half a
    century,
    judging from our past experience. By focus-
    ing concertedly on bolstering social solidarity in the
    decades ahead, we can dramatically shorten this
    period. In this task of reintegration, the United
    States should feel more confident than many other
    countries. Racial and ethnic lines of division are not
    drawn by God or written in our genes. They are
    socially constructed, and as social constructions we
    can also deconstruct them, as our own history
    demonstrates. Wave upon wave of ethnic immi-
    grants arrived on America’s shores; we responded
    with policies based on our motto of “e pluribus
    unum” (from many one), not by bleaching the new-
    comers into some pale copy of earlier arrivals but by
    developing a more multihued American identity. We
    gradually redrew racial boundaries that used to
    divide Poles from Italians from Irish, and that
    encouraged brutal ethnic vengeance. Over the twen-
    tieth century, we gradually erased religious bound-
    aries that used to divide Catholic from Protestant
    from Jew. Clearly we still have work to do in decon-
    structing racial and ethnic cleavages and fostering
    social justice and social solidarity, but it now seems
    like a joke to describe the wedding of an Irish
    Catholic and an Italian Catholic as a “mixed mar-
    riage,” as it was described in the 1960s. As I wrote
    in “E Pluribus Unum,” the challenge is to foster a
    more encompassing sense of “we.”

    So no western country is “developed” it still benefits from migration and despite generations of people not experiencing what it is like to be human, let’s push on bring fresh cultures into the neighbourhood.
    People want to be social and inclusive but the continual freshening of the population without compensation in wealth or quality of life is a crime against humanity*.
    * narcissism and self-interest anyrate.

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  78. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Kimbo
    RWNJ you keep on going on about crap if it makes your day

    it’s a day to embrace the cost of war.

    war can only be justified if it increases freedom.

    You are being a blatant hypocrite against what the day stands for with your red only because I say so standpoint.

    Nostalgia-NZ (4,699 comments) says:
    April 25th, 2014 at 10:09 am
    Forgot to note what colour poppies people were wearing at the parade this morning, I was thinking about loss for some reason.

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  79. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “it’s a day to embrace the cost of war….war can only be justified if it increases freedom….Go read nos.nzs post and understand why I am ignoring you for the rest of the day.”

    AKA “taking my bat and ball and having a sook”. Yes, griff. Read again my post at 10:16 am (the one where you conveniently fixated on lables after I called you out for your self-centred delusional martyr complex)

    “No, griff, NO ONE is forcing you or denying your essential freedoms. Go for it…

    And THAT is what the ANZACs ultimately fought for…”

    Some of those you speak in support of may be brave. You, on the other hand, in the context of what you have written on this of all days, and your decision to run while attempting to cloak yourself with the mantle of nobility, are a gutless yellow coward.

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  80. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “a deity which noticeably failed to do jack shit to prevent the most obscene atrocities.”

    Perhaps humans should stop committing atrocities in the first place.

    Free will = personal responsibility.

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  81. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Should prayers stay being said on ANZAC Day?

    “Yes, absolutely.”

    Prayers for what, exactly?

    Not to intervene to prevent suffering of an unimaginable scale and intensity, obviously.

    So, prayers for what?

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  82. mandk (992 comments) says:

    stephieboy: “I wonder if Shane Jones will be continuing his campaign against Countdown with John Key’s blessings .?”

    Jones has passed the baton to someone else (Cosgrove?), but what has JK got to do with it? Jones hasn’t joined National.

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  83. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Perhaps humans should stop committing atrocities in the first place.

    That’s completely beside the point.

    The question is what is the point of deities – and what is the point of praying to such deities – when they just sit on their arses and watch the strong prey on the weak; the immoral murdering, raping, torturing and starving the moral.

    Your feeble response of ‘perhaps humans should stop committing atrocities in the first place and ‘free will = personal responsibility’ is simply an admission that there is absolutely no point in praying for the intervention of any magical daemon.

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  84. mandk (992 comments) says:

    @ wat dabney,

    If you don’t like the prayers, you don’t have to say them. No one is forcing you.

    And if you don’t like hearing the prayers, don’t go to the service.

    If you still want a service, organise an atheist one.

    Peace, love and freedom, bro.

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  85. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “Prayers for what, exactly?”

    To remember the dead.

    To pray for the living.

    To pray the the hastening of the Great Day when all wars will finally cease.

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  86. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Political tags–such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and. so forth–are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.

    ……Robert Heinlein ….

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  87. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “That’s completely beside the point.”

    It IS the point.

    “The question is what is the point of deities”

    ‘Deities’ means nothing. It is the Living God that is the point.

    “Your feeble response of ‘perhaps humans should stop committing atrocities in the first place and ‘free will = personal responsibility’ is simply an admission that there is absolutely no point in praying for the intervention of any magical daemon.”

    God does not intervene to take away our moral responsibility, otherwise what would be the point of existing? Love requires the freedom to choose love, and thus the freedom to choose evil.

    You sound like a socialist demanding the State to take away our freedom to make the world a better place.

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  88. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “Political tags–such as royalist, communist, democrat…”

    “If I keep on crying that the nasty man is calling me names, maybe everyone will overlook the reasons why my ‘arguments’ (I’m sure as hell dignifying what you wrote with a tag in THAT case!) drew the response it did”

    “The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort”.

    Still doing victory laps, I see. So where does “RWNJ” fit in? Oh, I forgot. “It’s different because…”

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  89. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    How the West Gassed Thousands to Death in Damascus

    April 19, 2014 (Tony Cartalucci – NEO) – The bombshell report by Pulitzer Prize-winning veteran journalist Seymour Hersh titled, “The Red Line and the Rat Line,” contains many shocking revelations for those following the West’s version of reality regarding the Syrian conflict. It particularly sheds new light on the August 2013 chemical attack that left over a thousand dead (US estimates) and thousands more affected.

    It reveals that not only was the Syrian government not behind the attack, but that it was a false flag operation designed specifically to serve as an impetus for Western military intervention. It also reveals that the West’s desire to intervene in the wake of the chemical attack was not to disarm Syria of its chemical weapons as was stated to the public, but instead was intended to completely destroy the Syrian military and save its militant proxies who were already well on their way to losing the war.

    However, for all the revelations it contains, it provides only a glimpse into the greater conspiracy the West has been engaged in, grossly understating the unfolding truth of the West’s role behind the devastating conflict that is consuming Syria.

    http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2014/04/how-west-gassed-thousands-to-death-in.html
    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line

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  90. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    ‘Deities’ means nothing.

    Still trying to redefine language to prop up your doctrine, Shawn?

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  91. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    To remember the dead.

    To pray for the living.

    To pray the the hastening of the Great Day when all wars will finally cease.

    Did you watch the Mark Twain War Prayer video Shawn? How about that sort of prayer? And please don’t say you don’t want to watch it because I posted it, it’s Mark Twain’s, not mine.

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  92. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    It tends instead to be hijacked by the church to glorify Yahweh; a deity which noticeably failed to do jack shit to prevent the most obscene atrocities.

    Except of course for communicating a moral code which later became the basis of English common law.
    The thing about divine beings is they don’t go around demanding a ticker-tape parade every time they intervene.

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  93. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “The bombshell report by Pulitzer Prize-winning veteran journalist Seymour Hersh”

    Hersh is about as credible as Arnett. Actually less so. Arnett has the excuse of being mentally ill. I’m not sure what Hersh’s excuse is, beyond being a far left conspiracy-monger.

    “Still trying to redefine language to prop up your doctrine, Shawn?”

    Coming from a guy who redefines legal language to insist he does not have to pay rates or hold a driver’s licence, I think I’m on pretty safe ground.

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  94. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    Reid,

    Not interested in jumping down the rabbit hole of your delusions today. Bye.

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  95. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Good ole ANZAC day, always a good way to see who the real shit heads are.

    Im not convinced the boys fought for some of you piss weak homos to be honest.

    Anyway, Dime is going to pay his respects today by drinking piss with the boys, might even hit a strip club or two. Whatever it happens, its gonna be a big one.

    All the best.

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  96. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Hersh is about as credible as Arnett.

    And we should just take you word for that as if you were not the most prolific liar on the forum, right?

    Coming from a guy who redefines legal language to insist he does not have to pay rates or hold a driver’s licence..

    I don’t redefine it liar, I use definitions from widely referenced sources, eg Black’s dictionary of law and Blackstone’s commentaries.

    The right to use a public road in the ordinary way derives from the natural right of liberty as described by Blackstone.
    The obligation to pay rates depends on personhood, i.e. a state of dimished legal capacity. Persons and people are different terms and have different meanings:

    person: A man considered according to the rank he holds in society, with all the rights to which the place he holds entitles him, and the duties which it imposes. 1 Bouv. Inst. no. 137. A human being considered as capable of having rights and or being charged with duties, while a “thing” is the object over which rights may be exercised. (Black’s 2nd (1910))

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  97. Nukuleka (325 comments) says:

    Woke up in a cold sweat this morning, no doubt like hundreds of thousand fellow Kiwis, to face a Friday morning WITHOUT any shops open. Oh my Lawdy how can I cope!! My palms get sweaty just at the thought of such major deprivation.

    I expect, of course, that the opinion columns of newspapers, the letters to the Editor and august internet blogs such as this one to be FULL of hysteria about the rights of good folk like me to shop till they drop whenever they wish- and the right of the good burgers of NZ to open their businesses whenever they want. And not have such rights trampled upon by a small number of people who want to attend dawn services.

    Sadly we are being deprived of this right by those few thousand per city selfish souls who wish to get up foolishly early to attend commemorative services throughout the country, honouring a hopeless military exercise that the bulk of NZers know absolutely nothing about. Given the small percentage of our population who actually attend such services why do the rest of us have to give up our right to mall crawl.

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  98. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    Not interested in jumping down the rabbit hole of your delusions today. Bye.

    Yes Twain is a well known delusionist, everyone “knows” that, don’t they. For those people who do know how to think, it’s about a congregation of troops and their families praying for them before they head off to the civil war. An angel comes down and goes into the church. Watch what he tells them.

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  99. wf (441 comments) says:

    hj (5,718 comments) says (eventually):
    April 25th, 2014 at 10:35 am

    . . . . .despite generations of people not experiencing what it is like to be human . . . . .

    ????

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  100. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    Sadly we are being deprived of this right by those few thousand per city selfish souls who wish to get up foolishly early to attend commemorative services throughout the country…

    Yes. The “confusion” caused by the retail “inconsistency” is just UTTERLY unacceptable!

    How do business people and shoppers cope with the red tape?!

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  101. Pete George (23,558 comments) says:

    Is National’s Mixed Ownership Model right wing policy or left wing policy?

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  102. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    Reid

    Interesting that you cite Mark Twain. It’s generally accepted that he believed in a higher being but his thoughts on established man made religion are interesting to say the least.

    Given the God saturated country & times he lived in it’s a wonder that he died a natural death.

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  103. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    ….”Is National’s Mixed Ownership Model right wing policy or left wing policy?”…..

    Neither. It’s simply as far as any government wishing to be re elected this side of the next millenium will go in cashing up the nation’s silverware.

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  104. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “Is National’s Mixed Ownership Model right wing policy or left wing policy?”

    Neither and both Pete. At various times it has been advocated by both the left and the right.

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  105. cha (4,008 comments) says:

    Oh noes, sacrilege.

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  106. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    his thoughts on established man made religion are interesting to say the least.

    nasska I’ve never conflated man-made religion with my faith and I never will. In fact I believe that one of the biggest problems with religion is man-kind’s involvement in it. Simply because people conflate man-kind’s religious practice with faith-filled belief and conclude, wrongly, that they are one and the same. They’re not and they never have been, but most people don’t recognise that if they’re on the outside looking in.

    Faith is about a personal relationship with the Creator, nothing more and nothing less. Religious practice is the opportunity to exchange ideas about it in a two-way flow but at the end of the day, it’s not what’s in your head, it’s what in your heart.

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  107. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Kimbo
    April 25th, 2014 at 9:08 am

    “About the white poppy…

    Find another date. Full Stop.

    Kimbo
    April 25th, 2014 at 10:16 am

    No, griff, NO ONE is forcing you or denying your essential freedoms. Go for it.

    Liberal / conservative is not on the same plane as right / left in the political landscape”

    And now you argue “tomato-tomatoe”, while avoiding the essential issue you raised.

    Kimbo You are so stupid I really hope you post more U R Soooo funny in a pathetic kind of way
    :lol: :lol: :lol:

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  108. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    …”Faith is about a personal relationship with the Creator, nothing more and nothing less”….

    I can respect that Reid. Although I’m not & never will be a believer it’s always the interpretations designed to place power & wealth in the hands of the venal priests, be they Christian or Muslim or Aztec, that get up my nose.

    Other than that, may your God go with you.

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  109. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    Colin Powell’s former Chief of Staff strips away the bullshit and lays it bare – what is war really about?

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  110. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    Remembering the dead. Wayfaring Stranger.

    I’m just a poor wayfaring stranger
    I’m traveling through this world of woe
    Yet there’s no sickness, toil nor danger
    In that bright land to which I go
    I’m going there to see my father
    I’m going there no more to roam
    I’m just a-going over Jordan
    I’m just a-going over home

    I know dark clouds will gather ’round me
    I know my way is rough and steep
    Yet golden fields lie just before me
    Where God’s redeemed shall ever sleep
    I’m going there to see my father
    He said he’d meet me when I come
    I’m only going over Jordan
    I’m only going over home

    I want to wear a crown of glory
    When I get home to that good land
    I want to shout salvation’s story
    In concert with the blood-washed band

    I’m going there to meet my Saviour
    To sing his praise forever more
    I’m just a-going over Jordan
    I’m just a-going over home

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  111. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    Still not debating the issue, griff.

    So if me writing, ““About the white poppy…Find another date. Full Stop”

    is denying you your freedom

    …how come you are still writing?

    And how come you are squealing like a stuck pig while you do so?

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  112. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Faith is about a personal relationship with the Creator

    No disrepect to your intent, but a personal capacity doesn’t quite cut it.

    For YHWH your Elohykm is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
    Deu 10:17

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  113. stephieboy (3,004 comments) says:

    Seymour Hersh’s credibility iis open to question as he has claimed Osama Bin Laden was not killed in May 2011 .But the family spokesman Omar Bin Laden, son of OBL contradict Hersh’s , claim denouncing the arbitrary killing of their father by US special forces.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8506037/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-sons-denounce-arbitrary-killing.html

    Now which one is right .? Hersh or Omar Bin Laden and the family.?

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  114. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    Deut: 10:17-18 (Geneva version)

    17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and LORD of lords, a great God,
    mighty and terrible, which accepteth no persons, nor taketh reward;

    18 Who doeth right unto the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger,
    giving him food and raiment.

    (Accepteth no persons meaning He is not partial toward anyone over another, taketh no reward meaning He doesn’t take any bribes – spiritual bargaining or otherwise)

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  115. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    spinner

    I can not see any consistency in telling us you can not wear white poppy then saying you can

    You are wobbling all over the show

    You trying to say the day is owned only by those who wear a red poppy

    your attitude is simply a conservative authoritarians blind stupidity.

    The white poppy includes two facets that are valid sentiments on this date.

    1 It represent the collateral damage of innocent civilians as well as the sacrifice of the armed
    2 it also represent the view that war is destructive evil and often ultimately unproductive

    Your position is simple….. I think the red poppy is the only one allowed because that is what has always been done.

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  116. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    You trying to say the day is owned only by those who wear a red poppy

    It is griff, for the simple reason it’s the main fundraiser for the veterans. If the white poppy people wish to donate every single cent to the veterans, then go ahead and sell. But they’re not, they’re putting it toward some activist foundation to further political ends. Stealing the pot, for political ends. This is wrong in the precise same way the guy who stole the coins from the wishing well for the hospice the other day, was stealing the pot.

    Simple as that mate. It’s not rocket science.

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  117. stephieboy (3,004 comments) says:

    But I see Hersh found himself with his pants down and retract his claim about the ” big lie ” about the death of OBL and rather confusingly adds that what was claimed about the death subsequently by the US was wrong.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/guardian-seymour-hersh-bin-laden_n_4058625.html

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  118. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    Nukuleka says:

    …the rights of good folk like me to shop till they drop whenever they wish – and the right of the good burgers of NZ to open their businesses whenever they want.

    Actually, I think you’ll find Hamburglar and Burger King are not real people ;-)

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  119. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “Your position is simple….. I think the red poppy is the only one allowed because that is what has always been done”.

    No. My position is that until such time as there is a consensus that the white poppy has gained common popular acceptance…then IN MY OPINION it SHOULD have NO OFFICIAL place in the NATIONAL observance of Anzac Day. Especially as it is offensive to some, including ex-servicemen.

    But you are undoutedly free to say and do what you want. Just kindly stop (note – that is a request in imperative form, not a sentence of “Back to the camps with ya” as you tried to initimate earlier) moaning like a bitch when you get the reaction that you do.

    But then, that IS the point of saying and doing it on April 25, isn’t it? So it isn’t just “alternative” and “complemantary” as you have argued elsewhere. Instead, it is a direct CHALLENGE – and a rude one at that. And because you haven’t faced up to that, you are also deceiful as well as cowardly. Oh, yes – and presumptuous and incorrect in assuming you knew what my “position” is.

    As I posted elsewhere, you have the UN’s International Peace Day of September 21 as a more appropriate date for OFFICIAL NATIONAL OBSERVANCE of the white poppy (non) tradition. But then that hasn’t really caught on, has it? Tough.

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  120. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Accepteth no persons meaning He is not partial toward anyone

    accepteth is a translation of nsha’, meaning to lift up, carry, or sustain.
    persons is a translation of panym, meaning face or appearances.

    The phrase is more about not having regard for appearances than impartiality.
    The meaning of person derives from mask, which is consistent with an external representation and with the English meaning of the physical body of a man.

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  121. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Now which one is right .? Hersh or Omar Bin Laden and the family.?

    Who has an interest to maintain the party line: Hersh or the family of the business partners of the Bush crime family?

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/george-w-bush-and-the-bin-laden-family-meet-in-new-york-city-one-day-before-911/5332870

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  122. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    Is this the calm before the storm?

    http://www.zengardner.com/calm-storm/

    Since the Muslim terrorism meme seems to be running out of steam, especially now that it’s clear the West is again using these same elements they groomed from the start to foment their wars, they’ve now resurrected the Russian demon. Russia and the US have been working in close cooperation for decades on many levels, especially after the West imploded their economy and their previous Union was drastically dispersed. Russia has needed outside help to get back on her feet.

    Over time the tables have turned somewhat as they’ve gained more economic independence and exploited their vast natural resources, something the West has had their eye on all along. Ukraine is one such gem of natural wealth, as outlined in globalist architect Zbigniew Brzezinski’s book The Grand Chessboard in 1997 where the allusion to the need for a new Pearl Harbor was first coined and where he also names the countries and states of that entire region as the prize the West should strive to control…

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  123. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “But I see Hersh found himself with his pants down and retract his claim about the ” big lie ” about the death of OBL ”

    Exactly. Like most of Ugly’s sources Hersh is a serial liar with zero credibility. Ugly likes serial liar’s as sources, because he lies so often himself.

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  124. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    There are many on this thread today that must concur with “Tojo” Cunliffe’s desire to disestablish the RSA movement. Anyone who could condone the wearing of a white poppy on this day of remembrance is of the same ilk as “Tojo”, nothing but a pacifist leech. Still when we see the way Labour filled NZ up with Muslims during their term of mismanagement, it is not hard to see they are as treasonous as their Green mates. No wonder Jones pulled the pin, Labour and their supporters are filth!

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  125. stephieboy (3,004 comments) says:

    UT , you and global research ( and possibly Hersh ) are utterly deluded to think that the Bush family were complicit in getting the OBL family and other Saudi Royals immediately out of the US just after the 9/11 attacks .There is no evidence of anything of this kind happening till after the 20/11 well after US airspace was cleared on 13/11.Nothing underhand or nefarious here.GWB you would think have got them out prompto post 9/11.Now is that what your trying to claim.?

    More here,

    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Bin_Laden_family_flight

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  126. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    …when we see the way Labour filled NZ up with Muslims during their term of mismanagement, it is not hard to see they are as treasonous as their Green mates. No wonder Jones pulled the pin, Labour and their supporters are filth!

    I really hope they’ve revoked your firearms licence, it can surely only be a matter of time…

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  127. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    UT , you and global research ( and possibly Hersh ) are utterly deluded ..

    You shouldn’t be calling anyone deluded, idiot.

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  128. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Reid
    Ukraine does have significant gas fields which have hardly been developed. Probably one of the reasons the EU wanted a closer relationship.
    Oh wait, they’re all in the Crimea and off the Crimean Coast…
    Crimea is actually energy self sufficient. Short on water though.

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  129. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    wobble wobble wobble kimbo spinner

    your standpoint is as per your post

    Kimbo (413 comments) says:
    April 25th, 2014 at 9:08 am

    “About the white poppy…Some people see it as an alternative to the red poppy, others see it as complementary”

    Yeah, nah.

    Find another date. Full Stop.

    :lol:

    then you try to label any that dont agree as wingers and leftys

    Time to dump of the authoritarian bullshit don’t ya think and admit you are in the wroung.

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  130. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    Still chaffing under the jackboot of “authoritarian(ism)” I see.

    Must be that “liberal” (your tomato/tomatoe label – not mine) cross you have to bear.

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  131. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    Something happened to OBL but it sure wasn’t what happened that recent day when the matrix announced they’d found and killed him and the useful idiots clapped and cheered.

    That’s almost as funny as idiots quoting 911myths or the huff post as serious sites.

    Two months before she was murdered, Bhutto said OBL had been murdered. This interview was in 2007. I daresay Bhutto is rather better informed than stephie or Shawn, et al.

    AoR, Ukraine is about denying Russia the port of Sevastopol and because the US/Israel alliance is sick of her interfering with the operation in Syria which is preventing Iran from being taken out.

    As I’ve said I think it’s a reasonable chance it’s a punch and judy setup. One things it’s definitely not is what the western MSM portrays for the morons.

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  132. OneTrack (3,088 comments) says:

    Pete – “Is National’s Mixed Ownership Model right wing policy or left wing policy?”

    Well since lefties think the state should own all means of production (100%) and the right think it is not for the government to own businesses (0%), it probably means MOM is a policy right in the center. In other words, slightly to the right of where National currently are.

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  133. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Pointing out you are not right-wing just because you are a conservative authoritarian

    have a look at russia Putin is the direct equivalent of your political standpoint ……

    you really are a blithering idiot who can not keep on thought for more than a few seconds aint you love :lol:

    Cross ? getting all religious now :lol:

    As I already told you I don’t wear your badges or belong to your group identity. I make my own like a functioning adult should .

    I have been called a marxist lefty and a far right skinhead on here on the same day more than once …. You are just another moronic sheepie that fails to think for himself.

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  134. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Has “Tojo” Cunliffe made his apologies to Japan for dropping the bombs to end WWII (he would have preferred to sacrifice thousands of US and Allied lives); he was also further going to apologise to them for shooting rioting/escaping PoWs in Wairarapa? He does not give a stuff for the atrocities committed by Japan, torturing and starving thousands to death at the same time.

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  135. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “have a look at russia Putin is the direct equivalent of your political standpoint ……”

    It would be the direct equivalent if I came over and annexed part of your back yard. As I’m not, then why don’t you just get a grip – instead of YET AGAIN equating the just criticism your silly and poorly argued ideas have attracted

    …with persecution, suffering, and political oppression.

    And this is what I mean by your martyr-complex. You disagree with someone online who uses the imperative case to state an argument – like you did above when you wrote Time to dump of the authoritarian bullshit don’t ya think, and suddenly they are a dictators?!

    You need to have a lie down (Note: even though that is stated in the imperative, there is NOTHING forcing you to take that action. Normal people understand that, but you seem incapable of/unwilling to grasp that point, I’ve had to repeat it yet again?.

    As I already told you I don’t wear your badges or belong to your group identity.

    Yet you also say

    You can deduce my entire political standpoint from posts on the appropriateness of a white poppy on Anzac day..being in support of the right to wear white means I am a socialist not a capitalist.

    Liberal is the word you are looking for

    MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

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  136. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    It would be the direct equivalent if I came over and annexed part of your back yard.

    There is no direct equivalent because no other nation behaves as badly as the US does but a close-enough equivalent would be Russia invading Panama and denying US shipping the ability to use the canal, plus installing a satrap in Texas who then threatened to secede from the Union.

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  137. stephieboy (3,004 comments) says:

    Reid , Bhutto was obviously misinformed .It’s really that simple .Osama bin Laden’s son Omar and the family would be a lot better informed than the former President of Pakistan or the clowns on sites like the moronic Resne or Global Research etc that you and UT habitutate .
    Are you suggesting the OBL family including those present during the raid and survived are lying Zionist shills.?

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  138. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “There is no direct equivalent because no other nation behaves as badly as the US does…”

    Yes, I unwittingly opened that door to you, didn’t I, Reid!

    Sorry – not buying today. Maybe another time :)

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  139. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    See “Tojo” Cunliffe checking his text messages at Titirangi Anzac service (Whaleoil)? Showing his contempt once again for the RSA! He is not only a charlatan, he is a disrespectful creep, a product of pacifism!

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  140. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Flipper,

    re your 9.31am comment: what is amazing is that anyone got anything at all. So many US States refuse to pay any compensation, even when prosecutorial or investigative misconduct is proved. Many of those which do pay compensation only do so because so many people associated with prosecuting agencies have been shown to engage in such egregious misconduct as to essentially be successfully perverting the course of justice that they could no longer turn a blind eye to it.

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  141. wikiriwhis business (3,996 comments) says:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152333646624099&set=a.420965439098.199305.149009814098&type=1&theater

    mORE BILLIONS SPENT ON FIGHTERS WHILE ELDERLY ARE TARGETED BY GOVT.

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  142. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    Reid , Bhutto was obviously misinformed

    Yes, that’s right stephie. The president of Pakistan who is in a better position to know about OBL than any other world leader given its the most sophisticated nation in the region and OBL is right inside the ISI’s home turf and who makes a side comment she’s got no reason to make in an interview on something else, is most probably wrong. Whereas in your opinion the huff post and 911myths are by comparison, full of authority and truth.

    Are you suggesting the OBL family including those present during the raid and survived are lying Zionist shills.?

    I don’t even understand the question stephie. I’m not interested in you rewording it because I really don’t care since you’re such an extraordinary lightweight I’m about to resume my normal practice of scrolling past your idiotic rantings and completely ignoring your every single word because engaging you in discussion is about as fertile as two lesbians trying to make a baby.

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  143. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Wobble wobble wobble

    Do you know the difference between liberal and conservative? you confuse left and right with liberal and conservative putin is conservative and he aint a right-wing capitalist.

    To you right wing is only conservative. Are you a yank or something? stuck in the first past the post two-party state time warp of their obsolete political system.

    NZ is politically liberal in its elected governments both on the left and the right and has been for decades It is also one of the most free and most progressive nations on earth..

    This is a liberal blog read DPFs disclosure statement on his political standpoint.

    pro choice abortion.. universal rights. secular government. universal franchise. freedom of expression. all these things are liberal.

    This argument is over your insistence this morning that we only wear a red poppy today. you said that we have no choice only red is acceptable.

    Fail buddy it totally up to the individual Not your demanded loyalty to the RSA which is nothing more to me than a club for ex uniform piss heads.

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  144. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Griffith: The disrespect of a typical product of left-wing pacifism. Were your forebears conshies?

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  145. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    igm, so you show respect by being pro-war ? The old soldiers (who survived) would not agree with you.

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  146. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    So now Blair’s Kazakhstan contract’s finished looks like he’s picked up another, more ambitious project, pushing along the whole West vs Islam agenda. That’s definitely what the world needs. More conflict. After all, all those poor defence contractors and their owners can’t survive just on the slim pickings from the death machines in Syria and Ukraine, can they, poor things.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/23/tony-blair-battle-islamic-extremism-political-agenda

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  147. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    :lol:

    squawks back

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  148. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    OK, so you do accept labels. “Liberal” is it for you. Glad we’ve got that sorted.

    However, in labelling me a “authoritarian” and “conservative” (your labels, not ones I’ve agreed with) you show your failure to comprehend basic grammar.

    When I wrote

    “Yeah, nah.

    Find another date. Full Stop

    it is obvious, in context, that I was debating the the MERITS of your argument

    “About the white poppy…Some people see it as an alternative to the red poppy, others see it as complementary”.

    That is what “Yeah, nah”. denotes. They have been considered – and found wanting.

    I would be “authoritarian” and “conservative” if I denied your right to believe and act as you see fit. I haven’t. In fact I’ve affirmed it – hence my statement “Go for it…” (btw – as that was also stated as an imperative, was that TOO authoritarian?!). That includes wearing whatever you want, when you want. That a white poppy on Anzac Day may offend some is your lookout, and their bad luck. I don’t condone anyone who smacks anyone going about their lawful business in the face – but then I don’t think cars should be stolen, but if you don’t lock them…

    What I did say was that I don’t think IN MY OPINION that the white poppy on Anzac Day should have any OFFICIAL recognition UNTIL such time as there is a CONSENSUS that it is acceptable. Neither do you, or any other malcontent have the right to HIJACK the OFFICIAL observation without gaining a genuine consensus.

    Sounds like how we decide things in a liberal society. Personal freedom for all up to the point where my nose meets yours, but in the things that are shared, a democractic consensus. And if you want to change the status quo, you have an open forum (in this case DPF’s site) to state your case…where others like me have the full right to heap scorn on your ideas IN WORDS THAT WE SO CHOOSE and tell you, and show others why they are manifestly stupid and not worth pursuing.

    But in the meantime, carry on believing, saying and doing whatever stupid idea comes into your empty head. Including wearing and arguing for white poppies as and when you choose. Personally, I couldn’t give a stuff.

    You also have the right (subject to court order – don’t worry, I have better things to do) to misrepresent those who call you out on the matter, and knock over straw men such as “have a look at russia Putin is the direct equivalent of your political standpoint ……”

    Just don’t expect others to sit back in silence when you confuse criticism with denial of freedom.

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  149. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    Griffith, how about using your talent for something useful and tell us what the weather is doing tomorrow ? I want to do a mountain run and need to know how warm the climate will be.

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  150. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Six before breakfast ring a bell ?

    XX The Lancashire Fusiliers.

    My ancestors are on the roll of honor for the regiment.

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  151. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Another banker bites the dust…

    This is the 14th financial services executive death since late January.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-24/52-year-old-french-banker-jumps-her-death-paris-after-questioning-her-superiors

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  152. Nostradamus (3,320 comments) says:

    Religion has been discussed debated on Kiwiblog general debates for, well, longer than anyone can remember.

    Now, in the heavyweight round of the discussion debate, we have: ShawnLH v Kea.

    In one corner stands ShawnLH:

    By the way, I believe in God, not a man living in the sky. God is neither male nor female, and is present everywhere. And claiming your not religious, but prefacing one of your statements with “I believe” is living in la la land.

    In the other corner stands Kea: “The bible is destructive nonsense and always has been”.

    Off you go, boys!

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  153. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Find another date. Full Stop

    is finding the merits of my argument

    The white poppy which I don’t wear Is equally valid on this day as the red which I also don’t wear .

    in fact if I was so inclined I would rather support a peace scholarship in memory of my ancestors who died than a piss drinking mens club —I do accept the good work the RSA does for ex servicemen. I also think drinking should be discouraged and the RSA encourages drinking.

    And no full stop is not a valid argument to that :lol:

    welcome back kea when all is said and done you actually make more sence than some.

    even when the dribble clouds your screen

    At lest its consistent dribble that sorta makes sence unlike klimbo who is a very confused little wingnut.

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  154. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    Thank goodness New Zealanders don’t have a strong sense of identity…

    Odakyu-sen, NZ identity is tied to America through commercial TV. It tells us who the good guys are and who is bad. It tells us how to live like a hedonist obsessed with consumerism. It tells us what to think and who to hate.

    We are pretty much the most stupid and vapid people I have ever met.

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  155. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    UglyTruth says 4:47 pm
    Another banker bites the dust…

    This is the 14th financial services exective death since late January.

    Yes but how many financial services execs are there worldwide to put this into perspective? For all we know the attrition rate of supermarket trolley boys could be higher as a %. Hey, there’s a conspiracy theory to devote a few more blog posts to. Seriously, take a walk outside, there’s a real world out there.

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  156. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    I also think drinking should be discouraged…

    Someone snitch on Griffith !!!

    DPF needs to give the maniac some demerits for that outburst :)

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  157. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “The white poppy which I don’t wear Is equally valid on this day as the red which I also don’t wear”.

    On what basis are they “equally valid”?

    That they are equally legally permitted and acceptable within the freedoms of a good liberal society?

    Or they are INHERENTLY ethically/morally and philosophically equal?

    Or pehaps pragmatically equivalent?

    It does so help when you clear the “dribble (that) clouds your screen” by defining basic terms of reference that you throw around like loose confetti, e.g,. are we discussing personal freedoms, or public institutional consensus, or the inherent logical and/or historic merits of a position, or how they work out in practice?

    That you scoot between all four seems to indicate the source of your confusion – and your misattribution of the meanings of others.

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  158. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Shawnlh

    AKA lee01 in case you are wondering.

    I got 70 demerits the day before last for trolling him.

    I apparently got to close to the wind with referenceing to the habits of an ex leader of the Christian heritage party

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  159. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Nostradamus,

    In fact ShawnLH was going to be banned from discussing religion after revealing he doesn’t have the faintest clue about the theology he claims to follow.

    But then we realised all the other “Christians” here would have to be banned as well, for the same reason.

    But no, he is certainly no ‘heavyweight.’

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  160. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    Kimbo, if you really want to honour the fallen then support peace. Or at least the absence of war.

    Love em or hate em, pacifists did not kill those people.

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  161. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    I apparently got to close to the wind with referenceing to the habits of an ex leader of the Christian heritage party

    “Rev. Capill Gets Nine Years For Child Rape

    Capill emailed supporters claiming the rape offence with one of the girls was consensual sex.”

    Griffith, you should get your facts straight about the Reverend. She was asking for it :(

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0507/S00208.htm

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  162. Nostradamus (3,320 comments) says:

    Wat Dabney:

    Yes, fair point, though I meant heavyweight in the sense of “highly opinionated”.

    Kiwiblog general debate threads seem to have lost their way a bit in recent weeks. The daily religious debate has become tedious – for me anyway. If we absolutely must have a daily religious debate, then it should be made as entertaining as possible for the spectators!

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  163. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    It can’t be! The good Rev Capill was a man of God.

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  164. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “Kimbo, if you really want to honour the fallen then support peace. Or at least the absence of war.

    Love em or hate em, pacifists did not kill those people”.

    Yeah, worked for Moriori, didn’t it?!

    There – the inherent weakness of Pacifism, and the nasty truth that it MAY actually unwittingly encourage war in certain circumstances sorted!

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  165. Scott Chris (6,133 comments) says:

    Oh dear The Troll Kea is back :shock:

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  166. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Kimbo you lose when you contradict your self
    first it was no you can not wear white today
    Then it was you must be a lefty commie if you support white
    now its some sort of phantasmagorical jumble of unconnected babble .
    read the posts again
    .

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  167. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    Yeah, worked for Moriori, didn’t it?!

    Kimbo, I don’t think it was pacifism that killed them. I think it was war. But I will do some fact checking just to be sure.

    Snott, better stamp out an angry email on your spittle soaked keypad demanding David ‘do something’ about me. Then you can go back to handling serpents and speaking in tongues.

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  168. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    Ok. So irrespective of a “Full stop”, when you write

    “The white poppy which I don’t wear Is equally valid on this day as the red which I also don’t wear”

    … you are just a plain old dogmatist unable/unwilling to give a valid (google it) reason for your argument – other than an implied “I say it is so!”

    Why didn’t you save us all a lot of time and tell us that from the beginning, instead of laying false trails you are a “liberal”?

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  169. goldnkiwi (1,303 comments) says:

    Always thought murderers and criminals should be one of the first sent off to war. Why should they have stayed safe in prison while their ‘rights’ were defended when they had no thought for others ‘rights’. Why send the god fearing and law abiding to be cannon fodder. Although I understand the rationale regarding excluding the flat footed also regarding marching, they could have gone to different divisions.

    The first World war in my opinion decimated families in NZ more than any other. My mother lost two unmarried uncles on the same day at Gallipoli, their sister lost a fiancée and never married and/or had children, their younger brothers were then old enough for world war two. Lest we forget. Many families would have been affected similarly.

    Loss? Loss is not just felt on ANZAC day for those who have died. As for the poppy debate perhaps the RSA members themselves could produce them voluntarily or return it to a situation that existed in Christchurch. Ours are simple. One Australian one I saw I thought beautiful.

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  170. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    Just in time for winter

    http://mobile.geek.com/latest/253083-physics-exploiting-axe-splits-wood-in-record-time

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  171. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “Kimbo, I don’t think it was pacifism that killed them. I think it was war.”

    he he, Kea

    You willfully overlooked my key phrase, “unwittingly encourage”

    No wonder you get banned as a troll! :)

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  172. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    griffith (839 comments) says:
    April 25th, 2014 at 9:05 am

    I don’t wear ether
    Not in my ethos to present external tokens of internal beliefs.
    Just sayin
    Big bruv is part yarpie
    My ancestors were fighting on the other side.
    White recognises that war is not only the suffering of direct combatants.

    About the white poppy

    http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/poppy09.htm

    The white poppy is an international symbol of remembrance for all the casualties of war – civilians and armed forces personnel – and of peace. Some people see it as an alternative to the red poppy, others see it as complementary; some choose to wear both poppies, some one or the other, and some no poppy at all.

    Dear dear authoritarians rising to top …EH…
    Its poppy day historical celebrated on armistice day ya ken Flanders fields and all

    Remembrance Day (also known as Poppy Day or Armistice Day) is a memorial day observed in Commonwealth countries since the end of World War I to remember the members of their armed forces who have died in the line of duty. This day, or alternative dates, are also recognised as special days for war remembrances in many non-Commonwealth countries. Remembrance Day is observed on 11 November to recall the end of hostilities of World War I on that date in 1918. Hostilities formally ended “at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month,”

    In Flanders fields the poppies blow
    Between the crosses, row on row,
    That mark our place; and in the sky
    The larks, still bravely singing, fly
    Scarce heard amid the guns below.

    We are the Dead. Short days ago
    We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
    Loved and were loved, and now we lie
    In Flanders fields.

    Take up our quarrel with the foe:
    To you from failing hands we throw
    The torch; be yours to hold it high.
    If ye break faith with us who die
    We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
    In Flanders fields.

    Remembrance poppy
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Artificial “remembrance poppies” at a war memorial in Ypres, Belgium

    The remembrance poppy (a Papaver rhoeas) has been used since 1920 to commemorate soldiers who have died in war. Inspired by the World War I poem “In Flanders Fields”, they were first used by the American Legion to commemorate American soldiers who died in that war (1914–1918). They were then adopted by military veterans’ groups in the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Today, they are mainly used in the UK and Canada to commemorate their servicemen and women who have been killed in all conflicts since 1914. There, small artificial poppies are often worn on clothing for a few weeks until Remembrance Day/Armistice Day (11 November). Poppy wreaths are also often laid at war memorials.

    White poppy
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Artificial poppies placed as Anzac Day tributes on a cenotaph in New Zealand; mostly papaver rhoeas marketed by the Royal New Zealand Returned and Services’ Association, with a lone White Poppy
    Arctomecon merriamii (White poppy)

    The white poppy is an artificial flower used as a symbol of peace, worn as an alternative to, or complement to, the red remembrance poppy for Remembrance Day or Anzac Day.

    Contents

    1 History
    1.1 New Zealand
    1.2 Controversy
    2 References
    3 External links

    History

    In 1926, a few years after the introduction of the red poppy in the UK, the idea of pacifists making their own poppies was put forward by a member of the No More War Movement (and that the black centre of the British Legion’s red poppies should be imprinted with “No More War”). Their intention was to remember casualties of all wars, with the added meaning of a hope for the end of all wars; the red poppy, they felt, signified only the British military dead. However they did not pursue the idea. The first white poppies were sold by the Co-operative Women’s Guild in 1933. The Peace Pledge Union (PPU) took part in their distribution from 1934, and white poppy wreaths were laid from 1937 as a pledge to peace that war must not happen again. Anti-war organisations such as the Anglican Pacifist Fellowship now support the White Poppy Movement.

    Those who promote the wearing of white poppies argue that the red poppy also conveys a specific political standpoint, and point to the divisive nature of the red poppy in Northern Ireland, where it is worn mainly by the Unionist community. They choose the white poppy over the red often because they wish to disassociate themselves from the militaristic aspects of Remembrance Day, rather than the commemoration itself.[1]

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  173. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    Thanks, griff,

    So white poppies on Remembrance and/or Anzac day (different Hemispheres – same purpose) are counter-cultural – which is the prerogative of those who use and/or endorse them.

    Which also means they don’t have to be accepted or embraced. In fact, they can be criticised and shunned and excluded from OFFICIAL remembrance.

    But NOTHING that you have posted has explained WHY your argument should be accepted and embraced in contrast to current OFFICIAL practice.

    Or is it that ALL IDEAS are equally valid for you?

    And if so, is that the same as EQUAL MERIT?

    At least flipper stumped up with

    “They will not choose another day because they know it will attract no mire than a couple of hundred of the customary left wing rentacrowd”.

    and Reid contributed

    You trying to say the day is owned only by those who wear a red poppy

    It is griff, for the simple reason it’s the main fundraiser for the veterans. If the white poppy people wish to donate every single cent to the veterans, then go ahead and sell. But they’re not, they’re putting it toward some activist foundation to further political ends. Stealing the pot, for political ends. This is wrong in the precise same way the guy who stole the coins from the wishing well for the hospice the other day, was stealing the pot.

    Simple as that mate. It’s not rocket science”.

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  174. mandk (992 comments) says:

    The people who want equal status for white poppies on ANZAC Day are odious. They could create their own institution, but they want to hijack and crap all over someone else’s institution instead.

    The homosexual “marriage” people were the same. They wanted to celebrate their difference and they could have created their own institution to do so, but they chose instead to hijack the existing institution.

    What will be next on the diversity agenda? Paedophiles demanding the recognition of inter-generational love? Parents in NZ demanding the right to get hospitals to genitally mutilate their daughters in the name of cultural tradition?

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  175. Steve (North Shore) (4,559 comments) says:

    How about the pacifists wear their white poppies on Dec 25th?
    What’s that? what did you say, you creepy little leftie soft cock?

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  176. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    ….”The people who want equal status for white poppies on ANZAC Day are odious. They could create their own institution, but they want to hijack and crap all over someone else’s institution instead.”….

    Agreed….they are generally marxist creeps.

    ….”What will be next on the diversity agenda? Paedophiles demanding the recognition of inter-generational love? Parents in NZ demanding the right to get hospitals to genitally mutilate their daughters in the name of cultural sensitivity?”….

    Possible but more likely is a scream from the Godaddled the next time a bill allowing euthanasia surfaces. The one allowing the sick & old to exit their lives of pain with a little dignity. Being so diverse as to think that one should have a say about their own suffering is heresy to some.

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  177. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Rsa income 2013
    $1,314,987
    spent on member support
    $30,880
    http://www.rsa.org.nz/sites/default/files/RNZRSA%20Annual%20Report%202013.pdf
    RSA
    A piss up club for ex service men that gives away such a stunningly large percentage of income to sopport its members it makes the pokey and hellecopter trusts rorts look tame !

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  178. Lucia Maria (2,417 comments) says:

    The Moscow Times has published an opinion piece that states that the Americans should be putting thousands of troops into Poland, not the hundreds that are being sent as a token gesture; and scaring Putin into thinking that Russia should hand over Kaliningrad if they continue with their Ukraine operations:

    The West could raise questions about the validity of Kaliningrad itself — its geographic disconnect from Russia and the fact that its very existence as a Russian territory is only because the criminal regime of Joseph Stalin grabbed it as a war trophy. If the 1994 Budapest Memorandum signed by Russia guaranteeing Ukraine’s territorial integrity can be violated, why can’t the same be done with the Potsdam Agreement of 1945 which defined post-World War II borders but only became fully operational with the signing of the Final Settlement With Respect to Germany in 1990?

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  179. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    The Moscow Times has published an opinion piece…

    The comments on it are amusing. Who said Russians don’t have a sense of humour?

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  180. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    Lucy, America opposes Russian because they get along well with Iran. And guess what group does not like that ….?

    Further they have plans for a big gas pipe line. As usually with Israeli American foreign policy, the reasons publicly given are nonsense.

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  181. mandk (992 comments) says:

    @ nasska,

    Can’t help thinking that you are missing the point about concerns in relation to euthanasia.

    There is nothing objectionable about doctors administering whatever doses are necessary to relieve intolerable pain at the end of life, even if it hastens death.

    The concern is that it will become legalised geronticide, with old people being coerced by greedy relatives into accepting it.
    My brother and sister-in-law recently retired, having clocked up 75 years between them in geriatric nursing. Much of their time was actually spent dealing with families, and neither has the slightest doubt that coercion will become commonplace if euthanasia is legalised. I also have no doubt that I could persuade my beloved elderly mum to pop the pill, because she is so concerned about not being a burden and not having any money left to bequeath.

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  182. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    Griff

    I haven’t waded through the financials in your link but it is common knowledge that the RSAs are in trouble mostly because their base has died off. From the situation in the 70’s when they were debating whether to include servicemen from Vietnam they’ll now offer membership to anyone who has seen a picture of a gun.

    Eventually they must fold but meantime I’m certain that proceeds from poppy sales are ring fenced for veterans’ welfare payments.

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  183. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    A piss up club for ex service men that gives away such a stunningly large percentage of income to sopport its members it makes the pokey and hellecopter trusts rorts look tame !

    Or like Greenpeace who sail the world on a sponsored cruise ship fucking like rabbits and smoking dope. With occasional stop overs to tell us all how superior they are,

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  184. Lucia Maria (2,417 comments) says:

    Reid,

    On the Russian sense of humour, this was the joke making the rounds more than a week ago:

    Two Russian tankmen are sitting in a Parisian café, drinking coffee, and eating croissants. Several columns of Russian tanks are parked outside. A stream of troops is passing by, headed westward. One tankman says to the other, “There is one thing I do regret: that we lost the information war over Ukraine.”

    I think they know what is going on.

    link

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  185. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    mandk

    ….”There is nothing objectionable about doctors administering whatever doses are necessary to relieve intolerable pain at the end of life, even if it hastens death.”….

    Except that at the moment the administering doctor’s actions are illegal We all know that ‘nudge nudge wink wink’ X amount of morphine will kill but everyone turns their heads & ignores it…..even the Godwhacked. All it would take is for one arsehole to take an action against such a doctor & most of us will die screaming.

    For the records I’m not in favour of hunting granny to put her down….rather I want to see a legal way for someone to dictate their wishes while they are still sane & well. If a person is judged competent to make a will dealing with their possessions then surely they are able to state what should happen if they’re left brain damaged or dying in pain.

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  186. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    30,000
    a year
    the wage bill is 500000+
    its a piss up for old boys club nasska and you know it. No different from the 300 member boating and drinking club I belong to in the amounts it reinvest into the community. We actually put more $ back into supporting youth racing and other boating community causes than the entire RSA org does towards exservice causes with tens of thousands of members and twenty times the turn over do

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  187. Lucia Maria (2,417 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Those are side issues. Russia is nuclear armed, has already threatened America by saying they are the only ones that can turn them into radioactive ash, and they are currently destroying the whole basis for the WWII peace agreements and country arrangements. This is far more dangerous than Iran.

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  188. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    Lucy, Where on earth do you get this nonsense ?

    America is the biggest threat to world peace right now, not Russia. Things have changed from what they were. And you need to wake up and change with them. The Crimea is Russian. It is full of Russians. And most Ukraine people are happy to have close ties with Russia. Look up the real history and stop mindlessly parroting US propaganda.

    As for nukes, Israel has them and has been threatening Iran for years. As has America. The same America currently attacking people all over the world. The same America who sponsored Saddam to attack Iran. Russia enjoys good relations with Iran and that displeases AIPAC. So they have told their boy Obama what to do about it.

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  189. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    It would end up like the organ donor on your licence nasska
    great idea but the cocks will just make a legal meal out of your wishes and no one will win Least of all you

    I watched my mum linger as a virtual veg years. She died twice only to be brought back to suffer some more pain.
    I couldnt treat a dog how some treat humans prolonging anothers agony for their own warped benifit.

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  190. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    Griff

    For most veterans the bar was an attraction & for too many it was a way of life. Point is they had plenty of drinking members contributing profit through turnover. All the veterans from WW1 are dead & WW2 personal are well in their 80’s. Korean veterans are old men past their prime & most of the Vietnam boys are getting a bit shaky too.

    The organisation has high fixed overheads & a dwindling membership…..it’s in its death throes now.

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  191. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    WWII peace agreements and country arrangements.

    Was that the “agreement” where we allowed Europe, Central Asia, The Caucus Mountain countries, and a fair bit of Northern Europe, to fall under a brutal murderous authoritarian regime ? The war only ended a few years ago for many countries.

    The war was not won. It was lost. The Russian socialists were worse than the German ones.

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  192. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    I’m in the same position now Griff. Mum’s in her 90s & in a Stage 3 care hospital for dementia. As it happens she indicated to my brother & myself that whatever happened to her she wanted to see it out.

    Her wishes will be respected whatever happens but it’s opened my eyes to what could be my final days. My choice is different to hers.

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  193. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Meh

    I really didn’t see the point in going around in circles today. Kimbo was being such an idiot .

    FFS I don’t consider being open to peplos celebrating Anzac day as they see fit being a worthwhile point to oppose.
    KB GD coped my personal commemoration and contemplation last nite with the xx honor roll postings .All are as equally as valid way to remember the fallen as any other in my book

    .lest … we…. forget

    is the only important thing.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don’t ever count on having both at once.

    the usual source

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  194. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Dads early yet just needs an eye kept on him like a preteen kid so far.

    Someone has to carry the responsibility in his return to childhood.

    far better its me than a stranger.

    When the need arises–and it does–you must be able too shoot your own dog. Don’t farm it out–that doesn’t make it nicer, it makes it worse.

    Griffs having a Robert Heinlein again

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  195. mandk (992 comments) says:

    Glad to hear you won’t coerce your mum, nasska, but I’m sure that there are plenty of people who don’t have your respect and scruples.

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  196. Lucia Maria (2,417 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Poland has asked for American troops because the very real, and building threat from Russia. They’re not being swayed by “propaganda”, but by very real experience of what Russia is capable of. That “brutal and murderous regime” has not disappeared, it’s just lost territory and power that it wants back.

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  197. Left Right and Centre (2,973 comments) says:

    Supermarket closed 11pm not 12am – due to ANZAC Day next day. I leave the shop at 11pm. Young idiots want to enter to buy alcohol. It’s 11pm – shop is closed. And too late to buy alcohol by law. Is told no way by leaving staff member.

    Skinny young white scroungy mangy male maybe 18 or so. Get to the shop before 11pm – it’s been open all fucking day mate !! Funny to see one of our little social issues playing out and stereotypes playing out.

    And just like a little child not getting their way – it took too long for said male to accept the message. He’s done it to himself but can’t see it – wow. It’s the shop’s fault. He wasn’t nasty but yeah. Not pleasant either.

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  198. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    Lucy so you reckon Russia is going to invade Poland ! I now know where you have been getting this from.

    In other news…

    Obama: ‘Help Us Destroy Jesus And Start A New Age Of Liberal Darkness’

    “The streets shall run red with the blood of forced sodomy, performed daily upon every American man, woman, and child!” the commander-in-chief shouted, froth forming around his mouth as the crowd threw hundreds of aborted fetuses onto the stage. “Die, Christians, die!”

    Slamming his fists on the lectern until his hands began to bleed, Obama proceeded to lay out a “three-point plan of sin and lechery” for his second term. If reelected, the president said, he would begin by banning organized religion entirely—starting with Christianity—and burning all churches to the ground, preferably “with their wretched, Jesus-loving congregants still huddled inside like rats.”

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-help-us-destroy-jesus-and-start-a-new-age-of,29478/

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  199. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    LRC, are you still prancing around Welly like Forrest Gump ?

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  200. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    there are plenty of people who don’t have your respect and scruples.

    One way to look at this is atheists who have respect and scruples are far more moral than the religious who require external force to operate morally.

    Always the worst
    part of christian dogma
    original sin .

    You commit endless pain and suffering to protect from your own moral failing to do the correct action without the threat of eternal damnation to make you do it.

    Do not confuse “duty” with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily. Paying that debt can entail anytbing from years of patient work to instant willingness to die. Difficult it may be, but the reward is self-respect. But there is no reward at all for doing what other people expect of you, and to do so is not merely difficult, but impossible. It is easier to deal with a footpad than it is with the leech who wants “just a few minutes of your time, please–this won’t take long.” Time is your total capital, and the minutes of your life are painfully few. If you allow yourself to fall into the vice of agreeing to such requests, they quickly snowball to the point where these parasites will use up 100 percent of your time–and squawk for more! So learn to say No–and to be rude about it when necessary. Otherwise you will not have time to carry out your duty, or to do your own work, and certainly no time for love and happiness. The termites will nibble away your life and leave none of it for you. (This rule does not mean that you must not do a favor for a friend, or even a stranger. But let the choice be yours. Don’t do it because it is “expected” of you.)

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  201. Lucia Maria (2,417 comments) says:

    This is pointless.

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  202. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    A gang of robbers broke into a lawyer’s club by mistake. The old legal lions gave them a fight for their life and their money. The gang was very happy to escape.

    “It ain’t so bad,” one crook noted. “We got $25 between us.”

    The boss screamed: “I warned you to stay clear of lawyers — we had $100 when we broke in!”

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  203. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    This is pointless.

    Lucy, at times like this I find handling Serpents helps restore my strength. :)

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  204. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    last paragraph usual source :lol: to slow to retrace cut and paste to block quote the quote.

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  205. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “I really didn’t see the point in going around in circles today. Kimbo was being such an idiot .

    FFS I don’t consider being open to peplos celebrating Anzac day as they see fit being a worthwhile point to oppose”.

    Ho, hum, griff. Still misrepresenting.

    If that was the ENTIRE case, then the shops would be open before midday. Any guesses why the garden centres who make such a fuss over Easter don’t try it on on Anzac?

    But in the main, yes, it is live and let live on Anzac. However, in the case of white poppies

    1. as some people find them offensive because they view them as a political Trojan Horse being illegitimately injected into a national institution, and

    2. it detracts from and causes confusion with a legitimate and long-established charitable fund-raising venture,

    …then it is worthwhile considering the respective merits of the arguments. So we can personally come to a decison that will either reinforce or overturn the consensus on the things we SHARE together – or at least are officially observed.

    Now, personally, I don’t go out of my way to offend people. Judging by your “RSA are alcoholics” line, I guess you are different. Good for you. However, if you and others ARE going to offend others, I think it is worthwhile giving you a chance to make your case.

    Or is that just too tiring and irritating for liberals?

    OK. So you are an offensive prat for the sake of it. Got it. As I asked before, why didn’t you just tell everybody that from the beginning and saved us all a lot of time?

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  206. Left Right and Centre (2,973 comments) says:

    Kea – long time, no demerits – haha….

    No – funny you should ask – I’m down to a pushbike to get around and therefore my life turned into a fucking punishing triathlon of cycling, jogging, weights and dancing. I got mind boggling jaw dropping record low weight readings. I was on a 20km run – and half way through lap one I told myself that’s it – I’ve had it. I finished off the 5km lap I was on and that was me cooked with the jogging. That was late March.

    At the very least I need some new fucking MP3 tracks to run to – I’m sick to fuck of the same old shit.

    I don’t miss the endless bullshit soaking / drip drying / washing of disgusting run gear. 63 items a week roughly. Screw that.

    I did make it to 10 000 recorded recreational jogging kms since Nov 2005 though. The old quarter lap of this blue planet.

    Got some nerve damage or some shit in my forearm after tricep dips – had that for a couple of weeks now.

    And yourself ? Too busy to hang out with your fan club here huh ?

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  207. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Lucia
    Russia has not lost power at all. It is rich in energy, its technology grows. It’s army and navies are being modernised. Sure it has problems but it’s starting to grow its middle class.
    Russia has no interest in Poland. It’s a useful buffer and history shows us Russia like its buffers.
    Now America – there’s a country which has lost power.

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  208. MT_Tinman (3,183 comments) says:

    mandk (716 comments) says:
    April 25th, 2014 at 7:46 pm
    Glad to hear you won’t coerce your mum, nasska, but I’m sure that there are plenty of people who don’t have your respect and scruples.

    What a load of utter horseshit!

    What you mean is you don’t respect the wishes of those of us who do not want to linger when we are no longer able to control our destinies.

    I’m an old fart and I can assure you I hope someone has the guts and honesty to put me down when I’m no longer of use to anyone.

    I’m not alone – the one piece of advice 90% of old people give to anyone who’ll listen (and me on a daily basis) is “don’t get old”.

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  209. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    The razzas have been full of drunken sots for ever
    If you think arguing other wise has merit you really are a fuckwit .

    The razzas trust objective is

    The objectives of the RSA are:

    Loyally to uphold the sovereignty of New Zealand as a member of the Commonwealth of Nations and as a member of the United Nations.
    To foster and maintain the welfare and security of New Zealand within the concept of the establishment and maintenance of international peace with honour.

    To inculcate in the individual a sense of responsibility to his fellow citizens, to his local community, and for the well-being of mankind.

    To perpetuate the comradeship born of service and to promote the general welfare of servicemen and former servicemen, their respective dependants and the former dependants of deceased servicemen or ex-servicemen.

    To promote, foster and generally supervise local Associations and RSA Clubs throughout New Zealand.

    most are feel good fuzzys that make nice noises

    the last one is were 99 percent of the effort actually is

    clubs .

    for “mates” to drink in .

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  210. mandk (992 comments) says:

    @ griffith,

    Who mentioned religion? I didn’t. And my brother and sister-in-law who are certain that legalising euthanasia will make geronticide common through coercion are non-believers.

    Neither you nor nasska have addressed the issue of coercion.

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  211. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    Dead Penguins – I never knew this!

    Did you ever wonder why there are no dead penguins on the ice in Antarctica? Where do they go?

    Wonder no more!!!!!!! It is a known fact that the penguin is a very ritualistic bird which lives an extremely ordered and complex life. The penguin is very committed to its family and will mate for life, as well as maintain a form of compassionate contact with its offspring throughout its life.

    Talking about dying and stuff.

    If a penguin is found dead on the ice surface, other members of the family and social circle have been known to dig holes in the ice, using their vestigial wings and beaks, until the hole is deep enough for the dead bird to be rolled into, and buried.

    The male penguins then gather in a circle around the fresh grave and sing:

    “Freeze a jolly good fellow.”
    “Freeze a jolly good fellow.”

    You really didn’t believe that I know anything about penguins, did you?

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  212. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    Meanwhile on the way to getting old.

    http://www.wimp.com/coupledances/

    http://www.urbandance.eu/camp/videos/

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  213. mandk (992 comments) says:

    @ MT-Tinman

    What? Are you saying there won’t be coercion? You’ll be telling me next that women are never coerced into abortion.

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  214. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Kea,
    I think we will see regime change in Iran within 15- 20 years. They can’t slow their population growth enough. It’s come down but food security is a major concern. They can’t grow enough to feed their people. Oil reserves are dropping and ironically fracking in the US has created energy self sufficiencies for the US to the point they really don’t need Mid East oil no more. So oil prices are relatively stable- besides consumption is also dropping around the world.The only thing holding the Ayatollahs in place is the conservative rural vote and the enforcers in the cities. The urban population wants change.

    Good to see you back- how long you reckon you’ll last? :-)

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  215. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    And kimbo :lol: http://www.rsa.org.nz/history-poppy-appeal

    New Zealand unique

    In contrast to the United Kingdom, Canada and Australia, however, the RSA did not hold its inaugural Poppy Appeal in association with Armistice Day 1921 (11 November 1921), but instead chose the day prior to Anzac Day 1922. The reason is one of those quirks of history: the ship carrying the poppies from France arrived in New Zealand too late for the scheme to be properly publicised prior to Armistice Day, thereby forcing the Association to postpone its Poppy campaign until the day prior to Anzac Day 1922.

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  216. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “The razzas have been full of drunken sots for ever
    If you think arguing other wise has merit you really are a fuckwit .”

    OK, so I forgot to add the descriptor “arrogant” to twat.

    Two points

    1. I’ve known those who have been recipients of RSA funds – and it HASN’T been for piss-ups. At all.
    2. EVEN if that were the case….SO WHAT?! It is their money which the public freely gives to them.

    Oh, I forget – you are an arrogant twat who thinks you can proscribe how people and institutions should conduct their affairs. How VERY liberal of you…!

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  217. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Nice Russian cartoon in the link.
    “A Russian view of the Ukraine Association Agreement … with a delicious twist at the end. It is interesting that a cartoon can express with a clarity that which seems to elude the combined wit of the western media and political establishments. And if they can’t get the point, this isn’t going to be resolved any time soon.”
    http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=84898

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  218. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    All_on_Red, Iran is not the threat America claims it to be. It is certainly no threat to us in NZ. The reason we are told otherwise is that Israel wants to destroy Iran. America does Israels bidding. Iran has attacked no one for over 300 years. Compare that to the US ! (And please don’t bore me with fake discredited interpretations of what Ahmadinejad has said regarding Israel.)

    What we consider “news” is all too often propaganda.

    How long do you reckon ? :)

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  219. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Kea,
    Fair points. To me the problem with Iran is their sponsorship of terrorist groups. But hey there are many guilty of that .

    3 weeks?

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  220. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    All_on_Red, The biggest sponsor of terrorism on the planet, by a country mile, is Saudi Arabia. They have a global network of radical mosques with more being built all the time. They have the money to do that. They are also an intolerant fundamentalist state with strict Sharia law. The people who funded, planned, and carried out 911 were Saudi. (NOT Afghans)

    The other big sponsor of muslim terrorism is the USA ! They have poured hundreds of millions into radical muslim groups intent in overthrowing stable muslim countries. Most recently Syria.

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  221. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Yep, slavery is alive and well in Saudi too. Not sure it’s going to end well for the Sauds. Once their oil power is gone. ..History is littered with “civilisations” like theirs ending badly and as dust in the wind.

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  222. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Your attempt to control the colour of flowers peploe chose to wear when commemorating their war dead desevers only this

    get fucked.

    It’s not your fucken business …….

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  223. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    Good on you, griff.

    Really top quality arguments – and so well stated.

    Almost as good as the obscure irrelevancy,

    …the RSA did not hold its inaugural Poppy Appeal in association with Armistice Day 1921 (11 November 1921), but instead chose the day prior to Anzac Day 1922. The reason is one of those quirks of history…

    Yes, and Jesus likely wasn’t born on December 25. Doesn’t stop it having legitimacy in our National Calnedar due to the precedence created by observation.

    Any other stunning bon mots? Maybe the royal family had a German surname? That’d shut ‘em up, eh griff?!

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  224. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    All_on_Red, Yes when the oil runs out things are going to change for our deeply religious Arab brothers. They will have a big sandpit full of intolerant misogynists and not much else.

    Notice how the miserable pricks never help poor Muslims ? They are happy to supply guns and preach hate, but how about helping build something ?. Factories, industry, sewage, water…

    The Quran and Hadiths demand they help the poor and needy, but they seem unconcerned about that. Preferring to focus on hating women, homos and Merica.

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  225. Steve (North Shore) (4,559 comments) says:

    V2 at 8.29,
    “Dead Penguins – I never knew this! ”
    You forgot the ending.
    Freeze a jolly good fellow, and they kick him in the icehole

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  226. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Kea,
    Yeah, those Muslim countries really ” help” the Palestinians don’t they. That Gaza is just a paradise. Just madness.

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  227. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    It is not your business to dictate to others …….

    any way you screw it you can not dictate what I do

    you seem to like ignoring the history of the rsa movement

    how many wifes do you think got the bash when he came home pissed from the club?

    How many deaths by driving home to pissed ? How many drunken brawls leading to the A&E dept or local coppers cell?

    drowning you life on a haze of jugs is not the most sensible solve for bomb shock or combate truma

    a hell of a lot of ex service men have done just that propped on the bar of the local raza till the piss sent them to an early death

    Sorry if you find it offensive that I don’t support a club for piss drinking but that’s life idiot get over it.

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  228. Steve (North Shore) (4,559 comments) says:

    Black poppies for those who are not white? And them some brown ones for those who are milky bars?

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  229. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Russia has no interest in Poland. It’s a useful buffer and history shows us Russia like its buffers.

    Technically, the events of 1939 show the opposite…

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  230. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    No, griff.

    I don’t find it offensive. I just find it another stunning example of your ridiculous arguments. Presumably you apply the same to sweeping generalistions to rugby clubs, league clubs, bowls clubs, netball clubs, freemasons…

    Why don’t you just admit it – you’re just a miserable whining wowser, misanthropist bigot and repressed impatient prohibitionist struggling to reconcile that with your expressed “liberal” views, and as a result you have to find an outlet for venting your anger. Glad to be of service.

    There – diagnosis sorted.

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  231. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Wat
    Kursk proved to be a pretty useful buffer.stalin played for time well. Scorch the earth, give it up slowly. Let the the enemy use all it’s energy. Also I think Napoleon found out how big a buffer mother Russia had before you could get anywhere near the heart.
    Actually Poland was a good buffer. Hitler took it then moved elsewhere before deciding to go back and poke the bear

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  232. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    Spacemen and food

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  233. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Steve

    Irene, Barberton, Volksrust, Belfast,
    Klerksdorp, Pietersburg, Potchefstroom, Vereeniging, Turffontein, Balmoral,
    Nylstroom, Standerton, Heilbron, Kimberley, Bloemfontein, Middelburg, Kroonstad,
    Heidelberg, Krugersdorp, Vryburg, Vredefort, Brandfort, Springfontein, Bethulie,
    Norvalspont, Port Elizabeth, Aliwal North, Merebank, Pinetown, Howick and
    Pietermaritzburg.

    Maybe they are better remembered by a white flower that is for all war dead not just red for only a solders grave.

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  234. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    On 17 September, sixteen days after Nazi Germany invaded Poland from the west, the Soviet Union did so from the east. The invasion ended on 6 October 1939 with the division and annexing of the whole of the Second Polish Republic by Germany and the Soviet Union.[7]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland

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  235. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Actually I do

    alcohol is destructive addictive drug

    That I would like to see restricted in direct proportion to the harm it does. You would have to be stupid to view it otherwise……….:lol:

    you on the other hand seem to think it a good thing

    good on ya hope you end up a drunken old sot

    The sort we all know who looks young
    just
    for a man twice his age

    and cannot hold a sensible conversation because alcohol has the effect of picking brains slowly drink by drink…..

    Taken to the extreme its seen daily at the city mission

    and If we went down town right now I bet we could find a drunken homeless tramp who started on his spiral to the streets at the local RSA

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  236. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    Out of interest, because no-one here seems to have answered it (or if they have, I haven’t seen the reply), and Red Radio hasn’t yet made any comment , DID David Cunnliffe attend the Dawn Parade, as per BB’s post?

    It appears he was seen very rudely texting during a Memorial service at Titirangi later in the day, but the original question stands unanswered:

    Did he attend the Dawn Service?

    Thanks.

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  237. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    “good on ya hope you end up a drunken old sot”

    What a charming fellow you are. Well, at least that’s “misanthropist” confirmed!

    Anyone know how to break the news to griff that there was once a bunch of well-intentioned people like him who tried to restrict the use of alcohol…and they ended up with a guy named Al Capone?!

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  238. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    If we went down town right now I bet we could find a drunken homeless tramp who started on his spiral to the streets at the local RSA

    Probably. How about offering him a joint to put his mind straight ?

    The fact is that all over the world societies use some form of drug. Many countries drink considerably more than us while suffering fewer problems. It is a slippery slope to start demonising one drug, but not others, based on personal perference.

    I would legalise your weed and remove the punitive taxes on booze and smokes.

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  239. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    “Anyone know how to break the news to griff that there was once a bunch of well-intentioned people like him who tried to restrict the use of alcohol…”

    I think Griffith has converted to Islam :)

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  240. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Clark was at the dawn service at Gallipoli in 2005. And attended later timed ANZAC day services in New Zealand.

    But she did not do dawn events, not ANZAC Day nor Maori ones etc.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/content/1078896

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  241. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    Good advice, Kea.

    However, wasted on griff. As per April 25th, 2014 at 9:33 pm

    Taken to the extreme…

    is griff’s motto.

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  242. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Would someone like to point out to kimbo

    That at no time have I stated prohibition as an anser

    Unless of course Kimbo has made the connection because alcohol is so bad we should restrict it like we do crack cocaine.

    Rational evaluation of the relative harm of recreational drugs and appropriate levels of restrictions for each based on peer-reviewed scientific research with a goal of minimizing harm Drugs are a health problem not one for legal persecution by the courts

    Such as…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_%28physical_harm_and_dependence,_NA_free_means%29.svg

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  243. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    Would someone like to point out to kimbo

    That at no time have I stated prohibition as an anser

    Yes, and if I didn’t have other things to do I’d hang around to unpack the meaning of your words,

    That I would like to see restricted in direct proportion to the harm it does. You would have to be stupid to view it otherwise……….:lol:

    …but as your arguments tend to wander all over the place into general incoherence buttressed by extreme dogmatism, I doubt I’d learn much worthwhile…

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  244. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Yes kimbo you have spent most the day trying to justify dictating the colour of flowers worn and when FFS .

    You seem oblivious to this fact and seem to think I am the abhorrent one because I support freedom of choice.

    You are some sort of strange whack head boyo

    do you drink? much? more than 10 standard drinks a week? have you tried refraining for a reasonable period time ?You may already be a genuine PISS HEAD by the quality of your debate today.

    Kea will you do a test for me ?

    Shawnlh did and he scored 145 I score 160 I think you might score high as well. :wink:

    http://rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

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  245. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    griffith, how do you explain the fact that we are not high consumers of booze by international standards, with far bigger drinkers often having less social problems and overall higher standards of living ?

    You want facts and research : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption

    You will note countries with huge taxes and restrictions on booze that drink waaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more that us.

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  246. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    griffith, that is a test for autism spectrum traits in adults. How does that relate to this, or any other, debate ?

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  247. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    HOLD ON!

    I’ve got it all worked out. Griff’s last post provided the last few pieces of the jig saw puzzle: –

    “griffith”

    the use of “boyo”

    the extreme, non-negotiable and judgemental stance taken on the issue of Temperance.

    We are dealing with someone from Wales in the dogmatic and unyielding “moralistic” Methodist tradition. The faith in God may have gone, but the attitudes, rhetorical methods, and dogmatism hasn’t.

    What’s the matter griff? Still pissed off about Keith Murdoch’s try and the “worst All Blacks of all time” beating Wales in 1972. Makes sense. The way you argue you have proved New Zealand captain Ian Kirkpatrick’s advice from that tour – “You never beat the Welsh. You just score more points than them!”

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  248. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Kea, griffith was explaining why he and ShawnLH had difficulty being polite to each other.

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  249. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/facts/alcohol/en/

    The harmful use of alcohol is a global problem which compromises both individual and social development. It results in 2.5 million deaths each year. Alcohol is the world’s third largest risk factor for premature mortality, disability and loss of health; it is the leading risk factor in the Western Pacific and the Americas and the second largest in Europe. Alcohol is associated with many serious social and developmental issues, including violence, child neglect and abuse, and absenteeism in the workplace. It also causes harm far beyond the physical and psychological health of the drinker. It harms the well-being and health of people around the drinker. An intoxicated person can harm others or put them at risk of traffic accidents or violent behaviour, or negatively affect co-workers, relatives, friends or strangers. Thus, the impact of the harmful use of alcohol reaches deep into society.

    The harmful use of alcohol is a global problem which compromises both individual and social development. It results in 2.5 million deaths each year. It also causes harm far beyond the physical and psychological health of the drinker. It harms the well-being and health of people around the drinker. An intoxicated person can harm others or put them at risk of traffic accidents or violent behaviour, or negatively affect co-workers, relatives, friends or strangers. Thus, the impact of the harmful use of alcohol reaches deep into society.

    Harmful drinking is a major determinant for neuropsychiatric disorders, such as alcohol use disorders and epilepsy and other noncommunicable diseases such as cardiovascular diseases, cirrhosis of the liver and various cancers. The harmful use of alcohol is also associated with several infectious diseases like HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis and sexually transmitted infections (STIs). This is because alcohol consumption weakens the immune system and has a negative effect on patients’ adherence to antiretroviral treatment.

    A significant proportion of the disease burden attributable to harmful drinking arises from unintentional and intentional injuries, including those due to road traffic accidents, violence, and suicides. Fatal injuries attributable to alcohol consumption tend to occur in relatively younger age groups.

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  250. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    I have used this joke before. Griff thought the doctors said he had Aspergers, but he misheard them . They said his “arse needs purging” cos he’s full of shit…

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  251. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    I had the random thought that it may also explain why kea and I have great difficulty being polite as well.

    And it would also assure me that he is not the opposite.

    kimbo I don’t do team sports and don’t give a fig about thugby in particular.

    Why the interest balls men and running around?…. it sounds gay….. represed?

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  252. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    :lol: normie.

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  253. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    BUT no DENIAL of being Welsh!

    GOTCHA!

    It ALL makes sense!

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  254. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    griffith, here ya go:

    Thank you for filling out this questionnaire.

    Your Aspie score: 26 of 200
    Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 181 of 200
    You are very likely neurotypical

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  255. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    nope that makes you psychopathic my friend .http://www.psychopathicwritings.com/2011/11/psychopaths-aspergers-syndrome.html

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  256. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

    griffith, this might explain why you can not see how people can distort the scientific method for other motives. I see that in the climate debate and the current alcohol one. Its a bit like referencing ‘creation science’ to prove the world is 6000 years old.

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  257. cha (4,008 comments) says:

    They said his “arse needs purging” cos he’s full of shit…

    Assburgers.

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  258. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    :lo:

    Still got the old conspirohacky going wingnut

    Your Many countries drink considerably more than us while suffering fewer problems.

    is just your normal wwwfactspulledoutmyarse.com

    http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/alcohol/by-country/

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  259. Kea (12,777 comments) says:

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  260. wellygirl (10 comments) says:

    “Remembrance Day (also known as Poppy Day or Armistice Day) is a memorial day observed in Commonwealth countries since the end of World War I to remember the members of their armed forces who have died in the line of duty. This day, or alternative dates, are also recognised as special days for war remembrances in many non-Commonwealth countries. Remembrance Day is observed on 11 November to recall the end of hostilities of World War I on that date in 1918. Hostilities formally ended “at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month,”

    So on closer examination of history it aint the right day for red”

    The last comment here shows a lack of knowledge of the history of the poppy in New Zealand. The reason NZ sells the red poppy at ANZAC day unlike Australia, and other countries, is due to our isolation and a bit of Kiwi pragmatism.

    NZ planned to have the first poppy day for Armistice Day in 1921, however, due to the ship with the poppies on arriving in NZ too late for poppy day to be publicised the poppies were not sold for Armistice Day, and the RSA decided to sell them for the next ANZAC Day instead, and it was a success with many areas selling out. As a result of a late boat, and some pragmatism by the NZ RSA the red poppy is sold in NZ for ANZAC Day and not Armistice day. So, Griffith, perhaps you should not use Wikipedia to learn why things are done in NZ, but learn your NZ history.

    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/anzac-day/poppies

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  261. Left Right and Centre (2,973 comments) says:

    wellygirl – great post. That only leaves the mystery of why all of the TV flunkies wear poppies for an entire week before ANZAC day. Isn’t it only on the day ideally that you’d wear one ?

    And I like the social pressure that no-one on TV would dare not wear a poppy because that would make them an evil unpatriotic bastard.

    What is it with white people and using fake plastic shit instead of something real ? Fake plastic poppies made in China are right up there with plastic xmess trees made in China. Decorate a tree in the garden for shit’s sake. If you haven’t got a garden I don’t know… get a fucking little xmess shrub or something.

    Great fashion idea for the big hundy ANZAC day next year – poppy inspired clothing. The poppy dress. Poppy suit. Poppy top or jeans. Need a snack while watching the early service on TV instead of ever actually going ? Poppycorn. Do I watch porn on Anzac day ? Poppycock.

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  262. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    well done welly maybe you should read post before commenting on someones knowledge
    griffith (860 comments) says:
    April 25th, 2014 at 8:32 pm

    The reason is one of those quirks of history: the ship carrying the poppies from France arrived in New Zealand too late for the scheme to be properly publicised prior to Armistice Day, thereby forcing the Association to postpone its Poppy campaign until the day prior to Anzac Day 1922.

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