General Debate 27 April 2014

April 27th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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337 Responses to “General Debate 27 April 2014”

  1. big bruv (14,156 comments) says:

    Has Len Brown resigned yet?

    Has Penny Bright paid her rates yet?

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  2. Colville (2,300 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9981554/RBNZ-to-get-one-big-new-tool-under-Labour

    Labour want to give a big tool to the Reserve bank ?

    Well Cun*liffe is the biggest tool they have so…

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  3. peterwn (3,309 comments) says:

    big bruv – I bet that Penny Bright has paid the rates but is not going to admit it. If she has not, the cost to her will explode in pretty short order and some lawyer will be able to buy a new Bimmer by the time legal costs mount up.

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  4. holysheet (427 comments) says:

    Please please please can we today not have any mention about global warming or religion. Frankly, it is tedious and boring reading the same comments day after day from the same idiots who argue amongst them selves.
    For once think about others before you post your usual crap arguments.

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  5. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Note it was holysheet who first mentioned “global warming or religion” today.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 14 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    holysheet, how about we add politics to your list of forbidden subjects ? … If it is okay with you of course !

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  7. Komata (1,202 comments) says:

    …And said in a caring way…

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  8. Nostalgia-NZ (5,281 comments) says:

    Parker won in a fight in which he didn’t look to dominate with his left jab from the beginning. Couple of cuts, knocked around early in the 6th? but finished decisively with a the ref stopping the fight. For all the denial about his power and plaudits about his hand speed it’s clear he has both. It looks like Barry sent him in looking for an early knockout rather than building off his jab and hand speed, risky.

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  9. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    Fraser’s called for a debate in Aus over choosing between the US and China and Buchanan says we should consider the same.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/9981959/NZ-warned-as-US-and-China-raise-stakes

    It’s a bit more important than what flag design we have.

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  10. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    Frasers’ call……..

    A military dictatorship which will collapse in the coming years causing chaos or a 200 year old constitutional democracy that saved our bacon from the Imperialist Japanese.

    What choice?

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  11. MT_Tinman (3,257 comments) says:

    I haven’t noticed any comments from Wellington supporters about how they want Hammett to go (now) recently.

    I wonder why that is?

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  12. Yoza (1,908 comments) says:

    holysheet (198 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 8:14 am

    Please please please can we today not have any mention about global warming or religion. Frankly, it is tedious and boring reading the same comments day after day from the same idiots who argue amongst them selves.
    For once think about others before you post your usual crap arguments.

    Two birds, one stone!

    Eliason: Senator, we’re going to talk about your book for a minute, you state in your book which by the way is called The Greatest Hoax, you state in your book that one of your favorite Bible verses, Genesis 8:22, ‘while the earth remaineth seed time and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease,’ what is the significance of these verses to this issue?

    Inhofe: Well actually the Genesis 8:22 that I use in there is that ‘as long as the earth remains there will be seed time and harvest, cold and heat, winter and summer, day and night,’ my point is, God’s still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous.

    You just can’t make this shit up! Lunacy, … of biblical proportion.

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  13. allgoodal (14 comments) says:

    Is there a sea change occurring inside the PI vote?

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  14. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    holly shit

    please please please can we have no more post like that.

    There hasn’t been a significant global warming posts for weeks.

    The entire time I have been on here post in denial run around four to one to those who acknowledge the findings of science yet for some unknown reason the complaints are always against those who support the science of AGW.

    Is this because of the cognitive dissonance generated when wingnut denial stupidity is exposed?

    have an absolute crap day :lol:

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  15. Viking2 (11,571 comments) says:

    Tent family ‘have themselves to blame’ – landlord

    The landlord who evicted a Christchurch family now living in a tent says if they had not trashed his house they would not be in the position they are now.

    Cosmo Jeffrey owns the Hills Rd property that Taurua Houia and his family lived in before they moved to Spencer Beach Holiday Park to pitch a tent.

    Houia, his wife Sonia, and the three children living with them are priority A on the Housing New Zealand waiting list, and are desperate for somewhere to go before winter sets in.

    Houia said the family had fallen behind in rent before but were not “bad people”. He said he had told his story to highlight issues for low-income families in Christchurch, not to draw sympathy from the public.

    Jeffrey’s four-bedroom property was his first go at being a landlord. He charged the Houias $500 a week. Houia’s mother-in-law initially viewed the property, gave references and paid the bond. She told Jeffrey she would have other family members live with her. Three weeks into the tenancy, she moved out and Houia and his family remained at the property. They quickly fell weeks behind in rent, and soon owed Jeffrey $2000.

    “I felt sorry for them, and they kept promising they’d pay,” Jeffrey said. “They said they were sure they could pay it. He was saying he had two jobs and then the next thing I know he was on ACC and she was on a benefit of some kind.”

    Jeffrey asked the family to leave after they fell even further behind in the rent. He said the house was left covered in faeces and vomit. The walls were damaged and neighbours complained of parties and noise issues at the property.

    Jeffrey approached the Tenancy Tribunal to retrieve rent arrears and cleaning and repair costs totalling $4795. He halted proceedings after finding out the family was now in a tent. “They might be living in a tent now, but they need not be,” Jeffrey said. “If they’d managed things differently, they could still have a nice home. I feel sorry for their kids.”
    =================================

    Yep, that’s some tenants for ya.
    Do not deserve anything but a hedge to live under.
    Got rid of some like that before Xmas. Plenty of taxpayers money wasted on them. Never ever going to change.

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  16. SGA (1,143 comments) says:

    Yoza at 8:47 am
    After a quick read of his bio, Inhofe would provide material for a week’s KB. Although even he’d probably turn out to be a knuckle-dragging prog in some quarters.

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  17. Viking2 (11,571 comments) says:

    It’s a wonderfully Kiwi thing that National Party honcho Sir Wira Gardiner financially supported Shane Jones’ bid to become Labour leader. It’s even more so that Sir Wira’s wife is Education Minister Hekia Parata.

    Jones’ purpose was to knock her and every other minister out of office. That didn’t bother Sir Wira. He supported Jones anyway.

    There is, though, one disturbing aspect to all this and that’s Sir Wira’s reason for supporting Jones’ campaign. It was because Jones is Maori. He says he donated to “encourage Maori leadership”.

    That has to be a stupid and chilling reason. It’s not because Jones has the skill and qualities of leadership and would be good for the country. No. It’s because of something that Jones played no part in and can do nothing about: he was born Maori.

    So how is it that a National Party man – the husband of a National Party cabinet minister and a knight of the realm – can so casually donate to Jones precisely and solely because of his race?

    The chilling part is not that he donated but that his reason for doing so is so readily accepted without the outrage and condemnation it should provoke.

    What if I had donated $1000 to Cunliffe’s campaign? That would generate news and attention. But imagine if I said I did so because Cunliffe is European and I want to encourage European leadership.

    The reaction would be swift and decisive. I would be slammed and properly branded a racist. Cunliffe would be handing back my money and running a mile – and rightly so.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11244832
    =========================
    Couldn’t agree more. Its an Irish, Catholic, Maori thing you see.
    Time for some white supremacy again. The alternative will be that Asians will beat the Maori out. That’s what frightens Peters.

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  18. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    10 years ago kowtow I would have said no question. These days its less clear to me. One thing I’m pretty sure about, is that the debate won’t be looking forward projecting into the future but rather will consist mostly of looking back at historical records that may or may not be predictive of future behaviour. We humans are funny like that.

    Still the way things are going maybe we won’t need the debate because things are very unstable both economically and politically and a conflict may arise soon that will make the question redundant.

    It was because Jones is Maori.

    So presumably you object to AIPAC in the US and the Business Roundtable here as well V2? Or is that different?

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  19. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Viking: Maybe these tenants are related to the ferals in Maraenui!

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  20. itstricky (1,900 comments) says:

    What a load of clap. There’s no reason to ‘need’ to encourage European leadership seeing as it is pretty much ubiquitous. Argument is nullified. In one step. Rodney obviously having a slow day thought he’d trot out the Pakeha Party Brash lines to get white hoods like Viking out and riled.

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  21. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    Houia told his story to draw attention to the plight of low income familiies.

    See this is a big part of the problem with what passes for “poverty” in Aotearoa.

    Cunning, conniving ,work shy ,lying cheats living off the taxpayer and the goodwill of decent people.

    Welfare is the problem not the solution.

    If parents are prepared to allow their children to grow up surrounded bu shit they should be in goal as abusers.

    Sue bradford would have good parents gaoled for bringing up ones children well, but this family she’d give even more money to and claim it was colonialism’s fault.

    There’s something very rotten in the state of Aotearoa.

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  22. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    What choice?

    Tell ya what you god-addled bigot. How about you choose to stop using Chinese products from this point forward ? You can lead by example.

    No more internet for kowtow.

    The biggest single threat to world peace at this time is the USA.

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  23. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    recognition of the natural rights or life and liberty

    Ugly, no such thing as “rights”.

    There is only what we make. To test this how about every body does nothing and simply waits for their “rights” to be given. Who will confer those “rights” ?

    Hint: No one.

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  24. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Double standard alert

    let’s have a white kiwi only party

    The only policy of this party will be to place kiwi white mans culture first

    Special white kiwi only government-funded support.

    Skin heads to get funded to encourage the rights and needs of only the white kiwi culture.

    Schools to teach this separate from the mainstream with no oversite of the Government funding by anyone but white kiwis

    special treatment of kiwi whites in the courts education sector and the government.

    If you find this offensive you are of course

    RACIST..

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  25. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    There’s no reason to ‘need’ to encourage European leadership seeing as it is pretty much ubiquitous. Argument is nullified.

    By implying that there is a need to encourage leadership from certain races you miss the point entirely, which is that race should not enter into it at all.

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  26. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    This is a good way to begin the day 9/11 Truthers squabbling amongst themselves , Controlled Demolition of the WTC Towers versus mini nukes . I would like to included the Thunder Birds are Go , Particle beam / energy directed beams of Dr Judy Woods Infamy. Here arch 9/11 Truther Dimitri Khalezov takes issue with Gordon Duff of the largely one man band” Veterans Today” an important advocate of the absurd mini nukes theory explaining the destruction of the WTC.
    Khalezov produces evidence that Duff is in fact is a disinfo agent working tirelessly to discredit the equally absurd controlled demolition theory. Could it be that they all are.? Anyhow Khalezov is correct about Duff who has himself proudly asserted that about 40% he disseminates on Veteran’s Today and elsewhere is essentially false . But that figure of 40% is greatly understated.
    But here Ugly Truth and Reid and 9/11 Truth more of yours , ” panoply of the absurd.”

    http://www.takeourworldback.com/wtcnukeddisinfo.htm

    P S Don’t people think there are interesting parallels between Creation Theory and 9/11 Truth.?
    Just asking.!

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  27. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    Who will confer those “rights” ?

    It’s not a question of who confers rights, but who takes them away.

    I have the right to the fruits of my own labours, and will receive that benefit until someone threatens violence or uses actual violence to steal them.

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  28. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Disgusting to see Fairfax, APN, Newstalkzb, TVNZ, and Radio NZ all vying to give Lecher Len top priority in news coverage, along with the scum supporting him. Come on Aucklanders, don’t let this reprobate off the hook.

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  29. calendar girl (1,265 comments) says:

    Viking2@9:02am – I agree with Rodney Hide’s comments on Gardiner’s motives, but what’s your own reference to this being an “.. ..”Irish, Catholic, Maori thing” all about?

    Your personal prejudices at play, I presume?

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  30. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Ugly, no such thing as “rights”.

    Human rights are fictional, natural rights are real.

    Right. As a noun, and taken in an abstract sense, means justice, ethical correctness, or consonance with the rules of law or the principles of morals. (Black’s 5th)

    Don’t even start with your bullshit arguments, Kea, you can’t even live up to you own standard of applying reason to religion.

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  31. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Five ways 9/11 Truthers are like Creationists ,

    http://buffalobeast.com/5-ways-911-truthers-are-like-creationists/

    and,

    http://adamkemp.newsvine.com/_news/2008/07/10/1652771-debate-methods-of-creationists-and-911-truthers?lite

    Hmmm…!

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  32. MT_Tinman (3,257 comments) says:

    wat dabney (3,481 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 9:28 am
    ‘Who will confer those “rights” ?‘

    It’s not a question of who confers rights, but who takes them away.

    I have the right to the fruits of my own labours, and will receive that benefit until someone threatens violence or uses actual violence to steal them.

    First on the list is the tax man.

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  33. adze (2,129 comments) says:

    Just watching Q+A. I don’t normally comment on the appearance of politicians but Jesus H. Christ, the Labour Party President is wearing a Jacket that eclipses anything Meteria Turei wears in sheer loudness. It looks like someone sprayed whoopie-string over a plus-sized Devo jacket from the 80s.

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  34. MT_Tinman (3,257 comments) says:

    Viking2 I don’t agree with Rodney Hide that NZ happily embraces “reverse racism”.

    Reverse racism is a non-term invented to hide the truth.

    What Rodney describes is racism.

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  35. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    This is a good way to begin the day 9/11 Truthers squabbling amongst themselves

    For this squabble to have any relevance whatsoever, it implies the acceptance of the underlying premise of controlled demolition:

    From stevieboy’s link:

    The fact that the Twin Towers and WTC7 (Building 7) were destroyed in a series of controlled demolitions is not in doubt; more than 1,400 architectural and engineering professionals have called for a new, truly independent investigation and cited evidence of controlled demolitions at all three collapsed WTC steel-framed high-rises. A plethora of evidence for controlled demolitions includes numerous reports of molten steel and molten metal found in the debris pile – some of which was analyzed and found to be abundant in iron – iron-rich spherules indicating a previously molten state that were found in the WTC dust (including a sample collected ten minutes after collapse of the North Tower, eliminating the possibility of contamination from the clean up), an orange-yellow flow of molten material from the South Tower caught on video in the minutes preceding collapse indicative of an iron-rich melt and totally at odds with the “office fires” scenario, heavily sulfidated steel and partly evaporated steel members from WTC7 that were fireproofed with Monokote MK-5 which (according to NIST-sponsored tests on thermal conductivity and specific heat capacity at Anter Laboratories) outperforms the Cafco Blaze-Shield types DC/F and II used in the Towers.

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  36. itstricky (1,900 comments) says:

    By implying that there is a need to encourage leadership from certain races you miss the point entirely, which is that race should not enter into it at all.

    Unless, of course, one race is at a natural disadvantage to others when it comes to these sorts of things. And, if there is a person of skill and talent who is suitable for the job, perhaps race comes into it at that point of election, rather than at the point that you are inferring it does. In which case a monetary donation is put forward to overcome that barrier. You can’t sit there and tell me that it doesn’t come into consideration. Every time.

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  37. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    Did someone say religion?

    Alas no Popes or miracles were able to save this poor man. Tragically ironic:

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  38. Yvette (2,849 comments) says:

    As Colville mentioned –
    Labour is proposing to give the Reserve Bank “one big new tool” and broaden its objectives, Labour finance spokesman David Parker says

    – and Parker seems to be the big tool they have in mind.

    It would be given new tools to address the challenge of getting New Zealand’s current account deficit under control.

    Parker criticised the strength of the New Zealand dollar, saying the International Monetary Fund thought it was overvalued by 5-15 per cent.
    If it were 15 per cent too high, that would mean exporters were losing $9 billion a year, he said.
    “Imagine how many more people they could employ in well paid jobs if they were earning $9 billion per annum more from our exports.”

    My question may be totally naive, but what would devaluing the New Zealand dollar 5–15% do to New Zealand Debt –
    NZ$ 77,196,337,000 ?
    http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/newzealand

    Wouldn’t it increase debt by around $ 11.58 billion
    against “earning $9 billion per annum more from our exports”
    means Big Tool Parker would loose us $2.58 billion straight off?
    or did I go wrong some place?

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  39. Jack5 (5,161 comments) says:

    Rodney Hide makes some interesting allegations about Hekia Parata’s husband helping to finance Shane Jones’s bid for Labour leadership in the Hooerald today.

    Not sure about his racism suggestion though. Is ACT going to put this into its election campaign?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11244832

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  40. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “Human rights are fictional, natural rights are real.”

    UglyTruth, explain natural rights and give an example of a “natural right” ?

    And no Ugly, abusing me and running off like the intellectual coward and fraud you are does not count…

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  41. RF (1,453 comments) says:

    I am down in Christchurch to attend an old farts birthday party. Good time to catch up on friends I have not seen for years. I caught up with someone I had not seen since we had a falling out after he freely admitted pulling down National Party signs. From memory it was in Jenny Shipleys time. This guy and his wife come from the West Coast and were more red than Mickey Savage. The real one. I used to avoid them as they had a hatred of anything National and it could be very unpleasant when politics were discussed.

    When I spoke to them we made small talk and then they asked how I thought the country was going. I thought.. Here goes… Round 6 and made the usual comment…. Great under JK etc. I was surprised to hear that they agreed stating that JK had continued with Helen Clarks ideas and they thought he was a good man. When asked what they thought of Cunliffe … The response was “fucking useless”. They admitted that Labour were stuffed until JK resigned. This was the feeling amongst their labour friends……

    My head is still spinning as these people come from true west coast mining stock.

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  42. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    Maybe Wira Gardiner was simply arming the rebels. Can’t have a decent civil war without adequate funding.

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  43. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    Kea,

    If you spend a day weaving a basket, whose property is it?

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  44. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    UglyTruth, explain natural rights and give an example of a “natural right” ?

    Google Blackstone natural rights.

    And no Ugly, abusing me and running off like the intellectual coward and fraud you are does not count…

    Fuck off hypocrite. If I am such a fraud then why can’t you show the facts that illustrate you allegation?

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  45. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    RF

    ……JK had continued with H Clarks’ ideas…..

    and therein is the problem.

    JK is Labour Lite. We are borrowing billions to keep middle class welfare alive and who’s bothered?

    In addition we now have far left social engineering ,passed under JK’s watch.

    Labour’s victory is astounding.

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  46. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    If you spend a day weaving a basket, whose property is it?

    Wat, mine if I take it by force from you.

    Again I ask the question, who confers the “rights” you claim to have ? If it were truly a “natural” right then I could not possibly remove it. The harsh truth is that it is an artificial man made right we have to create and maintain. Observe nature for further details. I would take your basket and eat you, based on the natural order of things.

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  47. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    If it were truly a “natural” right then I could not possibly remove it.

    Non sequitur. You don’t know what you are talking about, Kea.

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  48. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Katie reckons the US is sent by god to protect us from the dirty yellow communist heathens. I am not so sure after reading this !!!

    Obama: ‘Help Us Destroy Jesus And Start A New Age Of Liberal Darkness’

    “My fellow Americans and godless infidels, I command you to join me as we cast an endless pall of far-left evil across the hills and valleys of our nation!” Obama bellowed from the stage, as thousands in attendance moaned in compliance and gyrated their hips and groins in a lascivious dance. “Together, as a barbarian people forged by the wicked flames of irreligiosity and united by visions of a liberal dystopia, we will rise up as one to scorch the earth with boundless amorality.”

    “The streets shall run red with the blood of forced sodomy, performed daily upon every American man, woman, and child!” the commander-in-chief shouted, froth forming around his mouth as the crowd threw hundreds of aborted fetuses onto the stage. “Die, Christians, die!”

    Slamming his fists on the lectern until his hands began to bleed, Obama proceeded to lay out a “three-point plan of sin and lechery” for his second term. If reelected, the president said, he would begin by banning organized religion entirely—starting with Christianity—and burning all churches to the ground, preferably “with their wretched, Jesus-loving congregants still huddled inside like rats.”

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-help-us-destroy-jesus-and-start-a-new-age-of,29478/

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  49. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    UglyTruth, I am still waiting for a single example of a natural right. Just one.

    I will even let you skip an explanation, of what a natural right is, as it is clearly beyond you to explain your position.

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  50. Jack5 (5,161 comments) says:

    Kea (10.15) is closer to the mark than wat dabney.

    “Natural right” presupposes too much: a universal concept of “right”, purpose and direction in nature (or the universe or whatever), probably some sort of supernatural “right” determiner.

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  51. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    I will even let you skip an explanation, of what a natural right is, as it is clearly beyond you to explain your position.

    I’m quite happy to explain it to someone who isn’t a first-class asshole.

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  52. Yoza (1,908 comments) says:

    wat dabney (3,482 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 10:04 am

    Kea,

    If you spend a day weaving a basket, whose property is it?

    The basket factory’s owner.

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  53. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    If it were truly a “natural” right then I could not possibly remove it.

    That doesn’t follow at all.

    The question was who does the basket belong to; the one you spent all day making.

    You are arguing that you have no more right to the basket than anyone else. Yet it was you who made it.

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  54. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Jack5, exactly. This is one of the reasons people invent gods. They can not handle the reality of no absolute right and wrong. Wat is not one of them, so he should know better.

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  55. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    So they’ve told us about Christopher Havard the Australian who became radicalised in Aotearoa,but what do we know of bin John?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11244898

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  56. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    The only natural right anyone has is to try to stop another from killing him/her. All other “rights” are conferred by humans & can be altered by anyone with the force to back up their wishes.

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  57. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    There are no rights in nature
    Life consumes life
    A “Right” is man inflicting his wants on others.

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  58. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    “Natural right” presupposes too much: a universal concept of “right”, purpose and direction in nature (or the universe or whatever), probably some sort of supernatural “right” determiner.

    Non sequitur. The fact that natural rights exist does not imply that a universal concept of rights exists.

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  59. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Wat, you are not getting the point. If it is a NATURAL law then it does not rely upon man-made morality and reason.

    In nature I can do what I please not only with your basket but with you too. Survival of the fittest is the natural law, but gives you no rights.

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  60. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Ugly you are squirming like a Salted Slug, but still not one single example.

    Wat, if I take your basket, who will you appeal to for your “rights” to be enforced ? (Now remember the rules ! It must be natural and not made-up by man)

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  61. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    The only natural right anyone has is to try to stop another from killing him/her.

    What is the basis for the natural right to life? If you know what it is then it is not that hard to deduce that the natural right of liberty also exists.

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  62. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    There is no natural right to life UT….just the right to try to hang on to it.

    No guarantees (or rights) of success.

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  63. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    kowtow (6,753 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 10:07 am

    Labour’s victory is astounding.

    Katie also believes the earth is 6000 years old and burning shrubbery is a useful source of knowledge. :)

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  64. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Ugly you are squirming like a Salted Slug, but still not one single example.

    English not your first language, asshole?

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  65. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    You mean that if I set fire to my camellia & have a read I don’t actually hold the key to all knowledge Kea?

    Bugger. :)

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  66. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    nasska, yes the right to self preservation is about as close as you can get. But it is not a right in the sense you are given it. You have to fight for it, which goes back to my original point. There are not real rights, only what we create and work to maintain.

    Ugly, still waiting for a SINGLE example of a Natural Right ?

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  67. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    There is no natural right to life UT….just the right to try to hang on to it.

    You don’t have the right to try to keep something that is not rightfully yours.

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  68. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    Britain ,no 1 exporter of jihadis to Syria.

    Whodda thunk?

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/472398/Britain-number-one-country-Muslims-are-flocking-from-to-fight-in-Syria-civil-war

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  69. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “I’m quite happy to explain it to someone who isn’t a first-class asshole.”

    Okay Ugly.

    Can someone else (who is not a first-class asshole) ask UglyTruth for a single example of a Natural Right ?

    That should wrap this topic up Ugly ? :)

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  70. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Natural rights ?
    There is not a right to self-preservation It is a want of the one who is threatened to continue his life
    This has no more or less “right” than the want of the one threatening to take it.

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  71. Sofia (867 comments) says:

    “…starting with Christianity—and burning all churches to the ground, preferably “with their wretched, Jesus-loving congregants still huddled inside like rats.”

    Please please please can we today not have any mention about global warming or religion.

    Oops … there endeth the Lesson in Self-Fulfillment Prophecy – well, half of it …

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  72. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Britain ,no 1 exporter of jihadis to Syria.

    Whodda thunk?

    Me.

    I have said many times on KB that the most dangerous, well funded and mobile extremists live in the UK and not in rural Afghanistan or Africa herding Goats.

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  73. Nookin (3,467 comments) says:

    “The only natural right anyone has is to try to stop another from killing him/her.”
    Surely this is only a right in those societies that have determined that it is wrong to terminate the life of another. History is resplendent with examples of societies that have no such respect for the lives of others.
    There can be no “natural” rights. Only rights that reflect the beliefs of any particular society at any particular time.

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  74. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    You don’t have the right to try to keep something that is not rightfully yours.

    Or else what ?

    You can not go running to the Cops either you hypocrite Ugly.

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  75. SGA (1,143 comments) says:

    nasska at 10:38 am

    There is no natural right to life UT….just the right to try to hang on to it.
    No guarantees (or rights) of success.

    But even that has limits, I think. Does the condemned murderer have the “right” to kill his gaolers in order to escape execution? or the terminally ill to kill for organs? or the starving to kill for food?

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  76. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    There is not a right to self-preservation It is a want of the one who is threatened to continue his life

    The right to self-preservation (aka the right to life) is a corollary of theism. From a purely rational POV there is more evidence for theism than there is for atheism, so it is reasonable to believe that the right exists based on balance of probabilities.

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  77. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    You can not go running to the Cops either you hypocrite Ugly.

    I’m not the one who can’t live up to his own standards, Kea.

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  78. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    UT

    ….that’s “her” own standards,kea.

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  79. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Ugly, you forgot to answer the question. Ad hominem attacks are all good fun, but don’t forget to address the issue.

    I will repeat the question: If I take something from you, who will you appeal to for your Natural Rights ?

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  80. SGA (1,143 comments) says:

    As I think about it – does a starving person have the “right” to steal. Do property rights trump rights of self-preservation?

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  81. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Katie how is that boycott of products made by the filthy godless yellow communist heathens going ?

    I was not aware that their were internet devices available made in the US Bible Belt. (Where Jeeesus came from)

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  82. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    what do we know of bin John?

    He used to work as a rubbish collector?

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  83. RichardX (329 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,183 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 10:52 am
    From a purely rational POV there is more evidence for theism than there is for atheism, so it is reasonable to believe that the right exists based on balance of probabilities.

    I know I’ll regret asking but can you provide any of this evidence and how you rationally justify it?

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  84. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Wat, if I take your basket, who will you appeal to for your “rights” to be enforced ?

    That’s an entirely different question.

    The question is whether you, as the weaver of this lovely basket, have a moral claim on it which no one else has. That is what is meant by your right to it.

    I suspect that you, who laboured all day on this thing, would feel a particular aggrievement if someone just took your basket. You wouldn’t just shrug and say ‘oh well, it belongs to everyone else just as much as it belongs to me.’

    It’s not about who can use force. Everyone can use force. That’s a given.

    It’s about who has the moral justification when using it.

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  85. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    Green governance.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2613905/Lunacy-town-turned-green-A-ban-bacon-butties-Traffic-calming-sheep-Transgender-toilets-Sounds-like-send-In-fact-real-story-Britains-loopiest-party-took-Brighton.html

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  86. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Wat, morality is not a right. It is something created. It most certainly is not natural.

    You and I might agree that your basket is yours by right. But it is a purely artificial thing we agree on.

    It is not a right. It is something we made.

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  87. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    He used to work as a rubbish collector.

    Now he’s been turned into rubbish to be collected.Ba boom.

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  88. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Its a want kea both sides wattwat wants his basket so do you. neither has a natural right involved just wants and desires

    We are discussing natural right not man-made rights based on morels that are only the lubricant of humanity’s collectivism

    The right of tapeworms to infest you gut overrides you desire to remove them?

    According to the natural right proponents this would be so

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  89. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    griffith, I don’t mean to alarm you but I agree with you. You get it ;)

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  90. fernglas (174 comments) says:

    Did anyone see the story in Stuff about how a kids’ cartoon has a throwaway line about Middle Zealand that some drongo in Dunedin felt he had to contact the press about, to say that he found it offensive? The only thing more stupid than reporting that is that the PM was invited to comment, and the only thing more stupid than that was Darien Fenton saying Key should take it up with Warner Bros. It’s no wonder our kids are apathetic about politics; the way it works here is utterly trivial.

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  91. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    kea,

    morality is not a right

    If it helps think of the extended term ‘moral rights’, since this is all about distinguishing who is morally right in using violence.

    I’m arguing that there is a moral difference between an arbitrary attacker using lethal force and the victim using equal force to defend himself. And we call that difference a ‘right’.

    If you came out of the house one morning and found your car had been taken I suspect you would not shrug since whoever took it has as much right to it as you do. You would call the police. And the moral justification for jointly funding a police force is that we are simply working together to enforce our individual rights. The police – in the case of car theft at least – has a moral justification which those who take cars do not.

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  92. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    wat, yes I get what you are saying about morality. I agree with you on that.

    What we are talking about are “rights”. In particular Natural Rights. What you are referencing are man made social rules and are not rights. They are things created by us for our benefit. My whole point centers around what is not created, but is given as a right by some Natural order.

    So far Ugly has not provided a single example of a Natural Right. He simply became abusive and ran away when I asked him for one example. You can try your luck at providing an example of a Natural Right.

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  93. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Wat, morality is not a right. It is something created. It most certainly is not natural.

    No. It’s natural in the sense that all human communities have some sort of moral code, and they are all similar in basic respects. For example, pretty much every human community has a version of the golden rule (e.g. Maori with Utu).

    Property rights are heavily conventional as to who owns what, and collective ownership or leasehold (from the “gods”) has been the norm for most of human history.

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  94. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    wat, is it moral to genitally mutilate a baby boy and then suck his mutilated cock, as Jews do ? How about the infants rights, are they protected ?

    “Israel’s chief rabbinate says oral suction at circumcision is preferred”

    In New York, at least 11 boys contracted herpes from the practice between 2004 and 2011, according to New York City health officials. Two died from the disease and two others suffered brain damage.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/israel-s-chief-rabbinate-says-oral-suction-at-circumcision-is-preferred-1.517349

    Ps. Tom, here is an example of human morals to ponder.

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  95. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    kea,

    My whole point centers around what is not created, but is given as a right by some Natural order.

    I thought your point was that rights don’t exist if there is no one around to enforce them.

    Well they do. It’s precisely how we tell the good guys from the bad guys. It how we know that the North Korean government is evil, along with socialism/communism/fascism and any other forms of coercion.

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  96. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Nobody is claiming that all morals are the same, Kea. Just that basic moral beliefs are widely spread. Even Jews have a version of the golden rule.

    is it moral to genitally mutilate a baby boy and then suck his mutilated cock, as Jews do ? How about the infants rights, are they protected ?

    I would say no, but it’s hopeless complaining about Jewish wrongdoing these days. All you’ll get is accusations of antisemitism.

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  97. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    wat, No. You still don’t get it. It is not about enforcing. It is about the source of these alleged rights.

    Rights do not exist unless there is someone around to create them.

    The fact we agree on morals and rights does not refute my point in any way. We created that morality and those rights. That is why we agree on them so much. But they are not Natural Rights. They are man made. And opinions vary on what is moral and what is a right.

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  98. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Well they do.

    Your argument is nothing more than hand waving.

    Rights in the form that you talk about them are only a few centuries old and unique to Western European civilisation. For most of human history people have talked about morality in a different way.

    If rights were self evident, surely people would have noticed a lot earlier and all over the word. Instead, the answer is probably that rights talk is a way of talking about morals that favours the interests of those who created it.

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  99. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    We created that morality and those rights. That is why we agree on them so much

    How do you explain the existence of universals such as the golden rule? Why is it that all human societies come up with a version of that?

    The ability to recognise moral reasons as moral reasons appears to be innate to human beings. It’s almost impossible to imagine what a society composed of people who could not do that would look like.

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  100. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    I would say no, but it’s hopeless complaining about Jewish wrongdoing these days. All you’ll get is accusations of antisemitism.

    I would say no too, but Jews would say it is very much a moral thing. Many would say the baby has a RIGHT to not to suffer that. This makes my point that rights and morals are created and are not natural intrinsic things.

    As for anitsemitism, who cares ? It is no worse than being anti any other group. The report was from a popular Israeli news paper reporting on comments made by Israel’s chief rabbinate. Maybe he does not give a shit about being labeled an antisemite either :)

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  101. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson, your perfectly entitled to spread your anti Jew feelings on KB and others and myself are equally perfectly entitled to draw our one conclusions from those you may like to post.
    Get a life.!
    Do Jewish Rabbis generally actually “suck his mutilated cock. ?” or is that the views of just may be one.?
    Kea, anti Semitism is not OK if it, as it more often does,has racially based emphasis as you often find in Islamic and white supremacist sites

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  102. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    The ability to recognise moral reasons as moral reasons appears to be innate to human beings. It’s almost impossible to imagine what a society composed of people who could not do that would look like.

    If Labour/Greens get in you will see it first hand.

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  103. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    I would say no too, but Jews would say it is very much a moral thing. Many would say the baby has a RIGHT to not to suffer that. This makes my point that rights and morals are created and are not natural intrinsic things.

    That’s a non-sequitur.

    We generally believe that throwing virgins into volcanoes is wrong, but most people would agree that sacrificing the life of one person to save an entire civilisation would be permissible if there were no other options. Yet the people who throw virgins into volcanoes are usually people who believe that doing so is necessary to save their civilisation from starvation or some other divinely produced catastrophe. So it’s often disagreement about the facts rather than disagreement about moral principles that drives weird customs like circumcision.

    As for anitsemitism, who cares ? It is no worse than being anti any other group.

    The professional and personal consequences of being labelled an anti-semite are usually worse in societies like ours, and accusations of antisemitism are routinely used to deflect non racially motivated criticisms of Judaism and Zionism and to shut down discussion of them. Case in point: the Guardian’s heavy censorship of discussions of the I/P issue were largely motivated by an organised campaign of harassment from Jewish activists.

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  104. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    The kiwiblog illiterati pontificating on rights and morality?

    Well I never !!!

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  105. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson, your perfectly entitled to spread your anti Jew feelings on KB and others and myself are equally perfectly entitled to draw our one conclusions from those you may like to post.

    And thanks for proving my point, schlemiel.

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  106. wikiriwhis business (4,130 comments) says:

    ” It’s no wonder our kids are apathetic about politics; the way it works here is utterly trivial.”

    Trivialising is how govt, business and the middle class work. Esp lets th egovt work bigger schemes and agenda’s by claiming it’s all relative .

    Nations run by sound bytes.

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  107. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    kea,

    You are saying then that if your car is taken then whoever takes it has as much right to it as you do.

    I don’t think you really believe that even for one minute.

    If rights were self evident, surely people would have noticed a lot earlier and all over the world.

    I didn’t say they were self evident, but it is irrelevant anyway (unless you imagine history’s tyrants would have thrown it all in had they given the matter a little more consideration.)

    Again, it comes down to whether you can see a moral difference between the actions of an arbitrary attacker and those of his victim defending himself; between the rapist and his victim. Most of us can. Indeed, even rapists know they are doing wrong; that there is no moral equivalence between the rapist and the victim.

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  108. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    This is interesting. Sheldon’s about to be indicted for money laundering, meaning all the GOP donations he’s made will need to be returned. His business partners in custody under witness protection.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/26/360110/aipac-gambling-boss-may-flee-us/

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  109. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson,

    “Case in point: the Guardian’s heavy censorship of discussions of the I/P issue were largely motivated by an organised campaign of harassment from Jewish activists.”

    Evidence of that actually happening.?

    What have Jews done to you personally to incur your loathing as a matter of interest.?

    BTW ,do you believe in an International Conspiracy of Jews trying to control the world much like Reid and some others here.?

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  110. wikiriwhis business (4,130 comments) says:

    NZ warned as US and China raise stakes

    A former Australian prime minister has warned Australia risks being pulled into a war with China because it has surrendered its strategic independence to Washington, but a security expert says New Zealand’s position is even more precarious.

    In what is being labelled the most serious questioning of Australia’s foreign policy by a former prime minister since World War II, former Liberal leader Malcolm Fraser said he had become “very uneasy” at the level of Australia’s compliance with US strategic interests.

    “Our armed forces are so closely intertwined with theirs and we really have lost the capacity to make our own strategic decisions,” Fraser said yesterday.

    Fraser has also called for a new debate about Australian-American military ties, warning that the secretive Pine Gap facility would become a target as it would likely be pivotal to the US capability to identify and neutralise Chinese nuclear weapons sites.

    Strategic and security analyst Paul Buchanan said it was the strongest strategy critique he had heard from any Australian leader.

    He said Australia was replacing the UK as the US’s foremost military ally, but held leverage over China because the latter needed its vital strategic resources such as minerals.

    “The Chinese have to tread much more lightly with the Australians than they do with us,” Buchanan told the Sunday Star-Times.

    “The trouble for New Zealand is that our position is untenable over the long term. At some point New Zealand will be forced to choose between its trading relationship with [China] and its security relationship with the US.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/9981959/NZ-warned-as-US-and-China-raise-stakes

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  111. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    stephieboy, the article was not from a Islamic or white supremacist site. Why are you pretending it was ? It was from Hareetz a Jewish news service and the chief Rabbi said this was how it was to be done by all Jews. It is not an isolated view of one person. So why did you pretend it was ? I simply posted an article from an Jewish Israeli popular news service and you are pretending that makes me a [GASP !!!!] anti-semite !!!!. It seems you have a big problem with the truth.

    Jews are a religion not a race. But you do not hold the views you pretend to hold or you would be screaming about the unfavourable comments concerning Muslims and condeming them as racist. But not a word. Why is that ?

    Jews are not special and are due no special consideration. Get over it. Religion is attacked all the time and the (self declared) master race of Jews are fair game.

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  112. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    I didn’t say they were self evident, but it is irrelevant anyway (unless you imagine history’s tyrants would have thrown it all in had they given the matter a little more consideration.)

    Again, it comes down to whether you can see a moral difference between the actions of an arbitrary attacker and those of his victim defending himself; between the rapist and his victim. Most of us can. Indeed, even rapists know they are doing wrong; that there is no moral equivalence between the rapist and the victim.

    Everyone throughout history has been able to see that. The problem for you is that they didn’t understand it in terms of rights.

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  113. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    What have Jews done to you personally to incur your loathing as a matter of interest.?

    Jews as an ethnic group?

    Nothing.

    Jewish people and their allies who seek to shut down debate on Israel’s actions by accusing those who disagree with them of being racists and playing the Hitler card?

    Plenty.

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  114. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    And this is our future, too. Surprised the knockout game hasn’t made it here yet. It will.

    Computers are raising our children. Most of them probably have more friends on social media websites than people they actually know in real life. Screens are disconnecting people of their basic sense of what it feels like to walk in another person’s shoes. The golden rule was thrown out the digital window a long, long time ago.

    And this…well…

    “Games” like this are just the prologue to a sad history the future will write. Society is lost.

    – See more at: http://www.thedailysheeple.com/smack-cam-the-fun-new-game-where-someone-records-you-being-slapped-by-a-random-stranger_042014#sthash.CtqKLHZo.dpuf

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  115. wikiriwhis business (4,130 comments) says:

    “What have Jews done to you personally to incur your loathing as a matter of interest.?

    You need to understand the difference between Jews and Zionism. Joe Biden called himself a Zionist though not a Jew.

    Zionism is a cultureless political, commercial agenda aimed at preventing the success of anyone but the Zionist inner circle.

    Look up the You Tube vid of Iran’s president meeting with Jewish leaders telling them he knows they are not the problem but the Zionists. The media refused to ackowledge that meeting.

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  116. SGA (1,143 comments) says:

    Kea at 12:32 pm

    Jews are a religion not a race.

    Many non-religious Jews identify as being Jewish in an ethnic sense of the word.

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  117. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “Case in point: the Guardian’s heavy censorship of discussions of the I/P issue were largely motivated by an organised campaign of harassment from Jewish activists.”

    Evidence of that actually happening.?

    The ADL is a massive, well funded, well connected, organisation that exists only to wipe out all public commentary critical of Jews and spread hate against Muslims. If it were any other religion it would be labeled a Hate Group and banned.

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  118. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Many non-religious Jews identify as being Jewish in an ethnic sense of the word.

    Yes there is debate even among Jews about this. Many believe they are the Master Race and you can not simply join them, any more than a Jew could join the National Socialist Workers Party in 1930’s Germany.

    Many people identify with religion as a cultural or social marker. They are not really Jews/Hindu/Muslim/Catholic due to a literal belief in the religious fables.

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  119. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    TODAY MARKS THE 100th anniversary of the largest and most-well funded hate and defamation group in the history of mankind: the Anti-Defamation League, or “ADL.” The organization was originally called the “Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith” after its parent group, the Jewish fraternal order B’nai B’rith (meaning “Sons of the Covenant,” or, literally, “Sons of the Cut” — referring to circumcision)

    The ADL was founded in the immediate aftermath of the conviction of Atlanta B’nai B’rith President Leo Frank for the strangulation and sex murder of a 13-year-old factory girl, Mary Phagan. The international Jewish community did not believe that Frank should have been convicted.

    http://therebel.org/en/?option=com_content&view=article&id=705589:adl-100-years-of-hate&catid=319:adl&Itemid=1229

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  120. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson (2,271 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 12:35 pm,

    Get real sunshine. How are Israel/jews specifically shutting e.g kea , yourself and your associates ability to debate and declare your open hostility, towards them.?

    Ah kea ,your link tells us a lot about its quality and ,reputability ,

    http://therebel.org/en/most-read-editorials/760346-are-jews-human

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  121. wikiriwhis business (4,130 comments) says:

    » Parker win not perfect but he’ll take it

    Joseph Parker and his handlers were happy to negotiate what they described as “a flat performance” as the New Zealand heavyweight maintained his unbeaten record with a seventh round win over Brazil’s Marcelo Nascimento in Germany this morning (NZT).

    The Kiwi camp felt Parker had learned some tough lessons but were content to come away with what was eventually a rollicking TKO in Oberhausen

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/9982752/Parker-win-not-perfect-but-he-ll-take-it

    If that was a ‘flat performance’ Flipper couldn’r ride the waves.

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  122. SGA (1,143 comments) says:

    Kea (10,573 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    Many believe they are the Master Race

    Really, do go on.

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  123. mandk (1,018 comments) says:

    kowtow:”Green governance”

    Yes, it’s the same stupidity that prompts the Greens in Wellington to argue for the retention of trolley buses, even though they cost 2-3 times as much as conventional buses (not counting the cost of the overhead wires and substations), require drivers to undergo specialised training, are only able to operate on fixed routes, block other buses when they break down, and can’t even be operated at the weekends. But, that’s all ok because they don’t run on diesel and that’s all that counts.

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  124. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Ask Rick Sanchez, Norman Finkelstein or Helen Thomas what happens to journalists or academics who don’t tow the line.

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  125. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “The ADL is a massive, well funded, well connected, organisation that exists only to wipe out all public commentary critical of Jews and spread hate against Muslims.”

    Goodness, what a lot of blithering idiocy. Kea is living up to his/her reputation as a troll.

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  126. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson, again in what specific ways are those luminaries you site are have had their constitutional rights removed and or e.g carted off to alleged FEMA camps.???

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  127. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    ShawnLH/stephieboy, do you think it is okay to genitally mutilate a little boy and suck his mutilated cock, as demanded by the Chief
    Rabbi, risking death, brain damage and infection from herpes ?

    Yes or No ?

    Here is the source. Read it all for yourself:

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/israel-s-chief-rabbinate-says-oral-suction-at-circumcision-is-preferred-1.517349

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  128. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    Tom, you claim that criticism of the Jews is unfairly called anti-Semitism.

    Yet here are a few discussion points from the web site Kea is linking too.

    “Are Jews human?”

    “The Jewish disease.”

    “Adolf Hitler, an overlooked Candidate for the Nobel Prize.”

    “The Epic History of the Waffen SS.”

    So, Kea has now exposed him/herself as a Nazi.

    Here is the web site KEA linked to to attack the ADL. Look for yourself.

    http://therebel.org/en/

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  129. wikiriwhis business (4,130 comments) says:

    Tent family ‘have themselves to blame’ – landlord

    Maybe, but $500 per week is steep. No wonder no one can get anywhere these days. The midle class wouldn’t put up with those kinds of rates.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9981943/Tent-family-have-themselves-to-blame-landlord

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  130. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    “Are Jews human?”

    “The Jewish disease.”

    “Adolf Hitler, an overlooked Candidate for the Nobel Prize.”

    “The Epic History of the Waffen SS.”

    A pretty revolting site. You can see why liberal critics of Israel’s poor human rights record get annoyed when ADL types lump them in with people who run sites like that.

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  131. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson, again in what specific ways are those luminaries you site are have had their constitutional rights removed and or e.g carted off to alleged FEMA camps.???

    So their treatment is OK because they weren’t carted off to concentration camps.

    Good to know.

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  132. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    Tom, Israel’s human rights record is easily better than any Arab country you care to name. Funny how some Leftists are not so critical of them.

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  133. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    So, Kea has now exposed him/herself as a Nazi.

    What, Haaretz is a Nazi site? You’ve lost it Shawn, you don’t know how to think, you’ve just proved it.

    And BTW moron, if Haaretz isn’t the site you were referring to and it’s not a Nazi site, then by your own mental logic, which is, I repeat, your own MENTAL “logic,” Kea’s just proved he’s not a Nazi.

    Hasn’t he.

    By your own logic.

    Duh.

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  134. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    The false accusation/claim:

    Do Jewish Rabbis generally actually “suck his mutilated cock. ?” or is that the views of just may be one.?
    Kea, anti Semitism is not OK

    The truth:

    The Israeli chief rabbinate was the latest of several international Orthodox rabbinical organizations to weigh in on the matter. Its support of the tradition reflects that of the Brussels-based Rabbinical Council of Europe.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/israel-s-chief-rabbinate-says-oral-suction-at-circumcision-is-preferred-1.517349

    This is a great real-time example of how religion distorts morality, reason and decency. We have someone, bold-as-brass, defending, and refusing to condemn, an infants cock being mutilated and sucked. Just imagine someone doing that in any other context ? DPF would ban them in a flash. But because it is the religious Master Race doing it, no problems at all. Sickening filth if you ask me.

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  135. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    Reid,

    this is the site Kea linked to. http://therebel.org/en/

    I’m sure you will find much to agree with there.

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  136. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “of how religion distorts morality, reason and decency.”

    Linking to a site like http://therebel.org/en/ proves you have no clue about morality, reason and decency.

    Sickening Nazi filth if you ask me.

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  137. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    this is the site Kea linked to.

    Shawn.

    This is also the site Kea linked to: http://www.haaretz.com/

    Duh.

    You can’t have it both ways Shawn. According to your own mental logic, Kea supports every single thing on Haaretz. Therefore he must, by your definition, be a tremendous Jewish patriot, as well as a Nazi.

    This is your logic, plain and simple. I bet you did get your degree through the mail, the evidence is mounting.

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  138. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    So, Kea has now exposed him/herself as a Nazi.

    Because I reference Israeli news services ?

    Sorry but I am not a member of a Socialist Workers Party. I lean more toward libertarian.

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  139. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “This is also the site Kea linked to: http://www.haaretz.com/

    Oh, well that makes linking to a pro-Nazi site perfectly ok then.

    Duh.

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  140. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson, try again. In what ways have Rick Sanchez, Norman Finkelstein or Helen Thomas have had their fundamental constitutional rights abrogated or stripped due to their questioning of the Jewish establishment .??
    Or is this more of your typically bloated and arrogant rhetoric.?
    Also see how your and kea’s anti Jewish feelings can lead to with his neo nazi hate link.?

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  141. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “I lean more toward libertarian.”

    You lean more towards stupidity.

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  142. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    Reid standing up for one of his fellow Nazi Jew haters. What a surprise.

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  143. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Maybe I really am a Nazi. Here I am quoting an article mentioning Nazi’s.

    The Jerusalem Post

    Mass grave of history: Vatican’s WWII identity crisis

    Catholic Church, looking for a bulwark against communism, supported what became genocidal regime of Nazi satellite Croatia.

    http://www.jpost.com/Features/In-Thespotlight/Mass-grave-of-history-Vaticans-WWII-identity-crisis

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  144. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    “From a purely rational POV there is more evidence for theism than there is for atheism, so it is reasonable to believe that the [natural right to life] exists based on balance of probabilities.”

    I know I’ll regret asking but can you provide any of this evidence…

    Archeological evidence like megalithic structures (eg Baalbek) and the recently discovered Russian megaliths.
    Historical texts that describe a technologically advanced ancient society eg (Vedas).
    Religious texts from many cultures which describe divine beings.
    The existence of a language which appears to have been designed rather than having evolved.

    and how you rationally justify it?

    From the idea that created beings are the property of their creator, and that they were created as living beings.

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  145. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    Oh, well that makes linking to a pro-Nazi site perfectly ok then.

    Merely applying YOUR logic to the situation Shawn. It’s YOURS not mine mate. Personally, I think it’s pretty mental, but then, I’ve told you before, you don’t know how to think, so I’m not really surprised.

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  146. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    ” It’s YOURS not mine mate”

    You don’t have any logic Reid. You let whackjob conspiracy sites and neo-Nazi’s do your thinking for you.

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  147. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    The claim:

    Goodness, what a lot of blithering idiocy. Kea is living up to his/her reputation as a troll.

    The Truth:

    “The Jerusalem Post

    Razbozov called for countries to enact legislation restricting online hate,

    The Anti-Defamation League testified regarding its ongoing relationship with Internet hosting company GoDaddy to take down anti-Semitic websites, citing some 30 sites it said were taken down by the American company.

    Facebook has also been working with the ADL, its representative said.

    “Facebook is coming around, they just need time,”

    http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Internet-antisemitism-a-mortal-danger-340980

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  148. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    You don’t have any logic Reid. You let whackjob conspiracy sites and neo-Nazi’s do your thinking for you.

    Says the man who just “proved” Kea’s both at one and the same time an Israeli patriot AND a Nazi.

    Forgive us if we don’t pay attention to your mad rantings Shawn, your conclusions are a bit odd, to say the least. That surgery really did go wrong, didn’t it.

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  149. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    ShawnLH/stephieboy are you guys still pondering if it is ok to cut up infants cocks and suck on them ? Do you agree with the top Rabbis or not ?

    Yes or No ?

    I say NO. In no context is that sort of ritual ok. Never. I am against doing that.

    Your turn …

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  150. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “Forgive us if we don’t pay attention to your mad rantings Shawn”

    Oh the irony! Mad ranting is all Jew hating Nazi scum like you, Tom Jackson and kea do. “It’s the Jews…It’s the Jews…It’s the Jews…the Jews control everything…the Jews control Hollywood….”

    Rant away Reid.

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  151. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Tom, Israel’s human rights record is easily better than any Arab country you care to name. Funny how some Leftists are not so critical of them.

    Awesome whataboutery.

    The reason Israel gets more stick than Arab countries do is because Israel is a democracy.

    Sane people don’t blame ordinary Iraquis or Iranians for the actions of their government, because they don’t have much of a say in what it does. Yet Israeli voters have voted time and again in favour of Israel’s violations of human rights. For example, Avigdor Lieberman, a racist and a fascist, is the mirror image of neo nazis such as the Hungarian Jobbik party. Yet he is Israel’s minister of foreign affairs.

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  152. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Oh the irony! Mad ranting is all Jew hating Nazi scum like you, Tom Jackson and kea do. “It’s the Jews…It’s the Jews…It’s the Jews…the Jews control everything…the Jews control Hollywood….”

    But they do, and Joel Stein of the LA Times thinks that not enough people believe it.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/19/opinion/oe-stein19

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  153. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Whackjob ® is the property of Griff if you insist on appropriating my insults you could at lest pay for the privilege.

    in cash unmarked bills

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  154. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, do you consider the editors of The Jerusalem Post and Haaretz ranting Jew hating Nazis ?

    How are you going with the baby cock mutilation and suck question ?

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  155. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “Whackjob ® is the property of Griff if you insist on appropriating my insults you could at lest pay for the privilege.”

    My apologies Griff.

    US or NZ dollars?

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  156. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Pat Condell on why we have every right to be offended by Islam. The so called “Religion of Peace “where Women, Jews, gays and apostates are treated as less than human. Women, at very least,half human,

    And here as well the latest “heros ” of the ” Religion of Peace “.
    Why does Boko Haram kidnap girls?

    The Islamist militants’ name translates to “Western education is a sin” in the local language.
    The group especially opposes the education of women. Under its version of Sharia law, women should be at home raising children and looking after their husbands, not at school learning to read and write.
    It has repeatedly targeted places of learning in deadly attacks that have highlighted its fundamental philosophy against education.

    There is a terrible and gruesome scene where Bokum Harum beheads a young woman for daring to questing their mad beliefs.But i didn’t have the stomach to link it as it was sickening and evil.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/24/world/africa/nigeria-kidnapping-answers/

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  157. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Real money thanks Renminbi. or platinum

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  158. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    As I have copped some criticism for bringing the GD thread down to it’s present gutter level, not entirely a fair criticism but nonetheless, the following persons are now un-persons and will not be responded to.

    Reid. Ugly. Kea.

    Goodbye.

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  159. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Here is an article from the worlds leading Jewish ranting Nazi filth, intellectual. He is very critical of Israel. He must be a [gasp!!!] anti-semite !!!

    Noam Chomsky: What the American Media Won’t Tell You About Israel

    http://www.alternet.org/world/noam-chomsky-what-american-media-wont-tell-you-about-israel?page=0%2C1

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  160. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    RIP
    is a app that allows you to hide all comments from selected commentators. if you ask someone will link to it
    I did run it for kea for a while
    worked well kept out the smell

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  161. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Mad ranting is all Jew hating Nazi scum like you, Tom Jackson and kea do.

    Shawn, can you explain how the Zionists assumed the inheritance of Ishmael?

    According to the founding father of Zionism Theodore Herzl, “the area of the Jewish State stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.” According to Rabbi Fischmann, “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

    In the same day YHWH made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
    Genesis 15:18

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  162. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    As I have copped some criticism for bringing the GD thread down to it’s present gutter level,

    Well if you call facts and opinions, complete with references to sources, “gutter level” then I guess so.

    Given that you have provided nothing more than name calling and refuse to answer questions, I think the level of debate needs to drop considerably to accommodate your limited abilities.

    Why don’t you just be honest and say the Jews are special because the bible says so ? Stop pretending you have a considered factual and reasoned opinion. You are just a fanatical hate filled religious bigot. Make peace with yourself and accept it.

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  163. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    RIP
    is a app that allows you to hide all comments from selected commentators. that expose your hypocrisy and faulty logic. It allows you to live in an echo chamber of unreality.

    As does dope smoking Griffy ;)

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  164. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Again Kea and Tom Jackson, site the ways in which your views about Jews are been censored or removed here and elsewhere. ?
    I think jews have every right to concerned and protect themselves from the vile poison and hate coming from the likes of kea’s hate link. I would not advocate closing it or others down . Tthat and other like minded sites and will not actually happen.
    But then how would kea, Reid and T J like that bile of hate being spewed out at them.???

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  165. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Echochamber ® is again the property of Griff on this blog

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

    thanks but no thanks Screen licking sucktard I don’t give a single smear of turd out of the ineffable ones arse for you, your opinion, you intelligence or even your presence on the planet.

    Troll the troll

    :lol:

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  166. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Pat Condell on why we have every right to be offended by Islam. The so called “Religion of Peace “where Women, Jews, gays and apostates are treated as less than human. Women, at very least,half human

    “O believers treat women with kindness even if you dislike them; it is quite possible that you dislike something which Allah might yet make a source of abundant good (An Nisa 4:19).

    “Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians — whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve” (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

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  167. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    site the ways in which your views about Jews are been censored or removed here

    No one made that claim. But since you asked.

    Swiftman/Scum Sucker 11-Sep-32 anti-semite

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/demerits

    You then go on to demand any thing critical of Jews be removed from the internet. But only Jews. No other group. Just Jews.

    1. Why do you consider links to mainstream Israeli news services hate ?

    2. Why can you not back up anything you say, resorting only to name calling and attempts to shame into silence ?

    3. Why do you lie so much and misrepresent what is being said ?

    4. Why the double standards between being critical of other religions compared with Jews ?

    5. Why do you lie about the existence of powerful Jewish lobby groups like AIPAC and the ADL ?

    6. Why do you not answer questions ?

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  168. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    As I have copped some criticism for bringing the GD thread down to it’s present gutter level, not entirely a fair criticism but nonetheless, the following persons are now un-persons and will not be responded to.

    But let us guess Shawn. While you won’t be responding to anything at all we say (hooray), you’ll still be lying about us and libellously accusing us of emotive falsehoods we’re not in the least bit guilty of, won’t you.

    Too bad your very own logic trapped you Shawn. Interesting your arrogance prevented you from apologising to us all, instead simply choosing to withdraw from the room. I bet you’d be fun to live with. The minute anyone says something logical, you get up and walk out.

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  169. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    I don’t give a single smear of turd out of the ineffable ones arse for you…blah blah blah

    Oh great Griff scored some bad-weed again. This should be fun :)

    Griff have you ever thought about taking up drinking instead ?

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  170. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Reid, I am relieved that people who think it is ok to mutilate the genitals of infants then suck their cock infecting them with herpes and causing brain damage, do not approve of my views.

    I guess being opposed to that sort of thing makes me a Nazi, but that is the cross I have to bear for being decent. Given such a demonstrated suspension of decency and reason it is little wonder their sort cause so much war and conflict. It is frightening to see.

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  171. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    Holysheet,my humble apologies but this is very topical .

    I post largely from the “cultural religious” viewpoint as I believe our culture history and traditions are rooted in our Anglo history.

    Whether folk go to church and which church I really don’t give a shit.

    Anyway this item from the UK shows how the cultural marxists who hate the west are winning.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10790495/Former-archbishop-of-Canterbury-We-are-a-post-Christian-nation.html

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  172. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    \Kea (10,585 comments) says

    Kea ,isn’t ironical in the extreme that you site Noam Chomsky who is and American Citizen , living there and employed by MIT making such outlandish and false claims there about the US medias alleged silence on Israel’s alleged human rights violations !
    He doesn’t appear to be one who is censored or oppressed, like you, for his views .?

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  173. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    stephieboy, any comment on the Israeli news article demanding more censorship and boasting about major companies and facebook being censored if they call Jews to account, in the same way as other groups of people ?

    Any comment on what Chomsky said ?

    No of course not. Even most Jews would not support your one-eyed bigotry and absence of principles and reason. You are a lonely little freak, though you may find some other misfits huddled together on the internet where you can happily lie to each other.

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  174. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Again Kea and Tom Jackson, site the ways in which your views about Jews are been censored or removed here and elsewhere. ?

    OK. The Guardian’s CIF site used to have many articles about the I/P issue, all of which were open to comments. Now it has much fewer articles on that issue, and any that are open to comments are only open to comments during working hours in the UK, which is no good if you live in NZ.

    The reason for this is that Pro-Israel activists targeted the site because many of the articles and comments were critical of Israel and mounted an endless campaign against it (including a website called CifWatch, which I think still exists). That whining didn’t work so well, so other pro Israel activists used the GIYUS app to spam any and all threads on such articles, making it difficult for others to engage in discussion, and there were a plethora of single issue accounts that were most likely sock puppets. People who posted pro-palestinian material would find themselves reported just for posting.

    Still others would post obviously antisemitic material that would then get reported and create a nightmare for the moderators. The cleverer ones would post reasonable sounding criticisms and then veer off into the weird sort of stuff that Reid posts.

    The threads eventually morphed from places where people could discuss the issue from all sides, to a complete mess. The Guardian appears to have cut down massively on the number of articles that deal with the issue, the tone of them is much less interesting, and comments are heavily censored and only permitted for a short time.

    So what happened in a nutshell is that the pro-Israel side engaged in a co-ordinated campaign to wreck what was a perfectly reasonable forum for discussion of the issues because they didn’t like what was being discussed.

    This sort of thing happens a lot. Mearsheimer and Walt couldn’t get their paper published in the US, for Christ’s sake.

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  175. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    He doesn’t appear to be one who is censored or oppressed, like you, for his views .?

    Chomsky has tenure and is a famous linguistics professor. Others have not been so lucky.

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  176. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson, thats not evidence or facts you’ve presented. Its based on allegations, rumour and speculation. Please be more precise with documented evidence e.g formal complaints from the Guardian editorial staff. etc .?

    “Others have not been so lucky.”

    Whom precisely.??

    Kea, you may wish to help T J with evidence that Chomsky has been censored, intimidated harassed etc about his views on Israel by the US Media and Washington.?

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  177. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson, thats not evidence or facts you’ve presented. Its based on allegations, rumour and speculation.

    I was there and saw it happen myself. GIYUS was real, Cifwatch is real (I checked – it’s still there and still insane). If you want to hunt through Guardian archives from ten years ago, be my guest.

    I honestly don’t care if you don’t believe me. You seem like yet another fanatical pro-Israel racist, except you don’t think it’s racism when your side does it.

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  178. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,186 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 1:52 pm

    You quote ,I believe ,the Koran. A pity those nobel sentiments about Women quoted don’t translate down at the Mosque or in the Islamic Sharia Courts
    Now why is that.?
    Contrast this to a Christian service I attended this morning where the level of respect, honour and participation shown to Women would be unthinkable down at the local Mosque or under Sharia.

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  179. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Tiom Jackson, this opinion piece from the Guardian 2010 contradicts your extravagant claim,

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/may/17/israel-palestine-highway-443-segregation

    I frankly don’t believe you unless you can substantiate and document your allegations. There it will have to stand with you the fanatical anti Jew and Israeli racist. !

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  180. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    The claim/lie:

    honour and participation shown to Women would be unthinkable down at the local Mosque or under Sharia.

    The truth:

    Woman in Beit Shemesh attacked by ultra-Orthodox extremists
    In latest incident sparked by ‘immodest dress,’ crowd of ultra-Orthodox men smash car of Natali Mashiah, 27, who says she believes they were going to set her on fire.

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/woman-in-beit-shemesh-attacked-by-ultra-orthodox-extremists-1.409065

    In Israel, a modesty patrol (Hebrew: משמרת צניעות; also modesty guard, modesty squad, chastity squad) is the name given to vigilante gangs which act to enforce a code of modesty among the Haredi public through violence and intimidation.

    Incidents attributed to modesty patrols
    In June 2008, a modesty patrol in Beitar Illit was suspected of spilling acid on a teenage girl for wearing trousers.[8][9]

    In August 2008, the Israel State Prosecutor’s office indicted seven men, allegedly from a Jerusalem modesty squad, for beating a woman and threatening her with death regarding her relationships with men. The ringleader was charged with conspiracy to commit a crime, aggravated assault, and extortion. In the same month, a man said to be a member of a chastity squad was arrested for alleged involvement in the torching of a store selling MP4 players.[10]

    In February 2012, a 70-year-old haredi woman was attacked and beaten in her home by a Modesty Patrol who suspected her of being a Christian missionary.[11]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modesty_patrol

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  181. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    We have established that stephieboy is okay with genital mutilation as long as its Jews doing it. We also know he had nothing to say about Christians being attacked, Churches attacked, Clergy spat on, just as long as its Jews doing it.

    Now lets see if he is okay with acid attacks and beatings of women, including a 70 year old woman in her home, by Jews for modestly crimes ?

    Lets see if he can see through his fog of religious bias and hatred for Muslims to condemn what any decent person would condemn. Is stephieboy REALLY against treating women this way, or does he make an exception on religious grounds… (for Jews)

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  182. wikiriwhis business (4,130 comments) says:

    Workers set to be hit by a debt tax and families could lose benefits as the Abbott government struggles to reduce the nation’s deficit

    WORKERS will be forced to dig into their own pockets to pay off the country’s debt and families could face losing benefits as the Abbott government struggles to reduce the nation’s deficit.Daily Telegraph

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/workers-set-to-be-hit-by-a-debt-tax-and-families-could-lose-benefits-as-the-abbott-government-struggles-to-reduce-the-nations-deficit/story-fni0cx12-1226896802364

    Coming to NZ soon no doubt. Politicians abuse us for years then tell us to pay them back for the privilige. The same ones that never had to pay a cent for their education. you all would have called them bludgers back in the day. They still bludgers.

    This is just more financial enslavement along with road revenueing and student loans etc, etc.

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  183. mikenmild (11,752 comments) says:

    I’ve never seen interest-free student loans (which are voluntary by the way) described as ‘financial enslavement’ before.

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  184. Jack5 (5,161 comments) says:

    Kea posted at 3.25:

    We have established that stephieboy is okay with genital mutilation as long as its Jews doing it.

    Kea, presumably you are talking about circumcision of males. This is not infrequently done to non-Jewish and non-Muslim males for medical reasons, or because of non-secular medical beliefs of parents or physicians.

    But what of the genital mutilation of girls? Is there evidence that this is done among some Christians, some Jews, or some anything else apart from some of the more fundamentalist Muslims? Is this ever done to girls for secular, non-religious reasons?

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  185. Jack5 (5,161 comments) says:

    Despite my question to Kea at 4.02, I am puzzled why the fuck Kiwiblog posters are so fixated on Jews and Muslims.

    There’s a helluva lot going on in the world.

    Especially, when the world seems to be more secular by the day. Does the obsession with this and other religious matters indicate that for some reason evolution has hard wired us to believe in religion, and when beliefs in current religions wane, the evolutionary imperative finds other outlets – like blogs?

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  186. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Jack5 why can you not simply say this is wrong ? Is it really your position that it is okay for Jews to throw acid on women, beat up 70 year olds in their home and mutilate infants, because some Muslims do it ?

    Listen to your self and look what you are defending :

    “Israel’s chief rabbinate says oral suction at circumcision is preferred”

    In New York, at least 11 boys contracted herpes from the practice between 2004 and 2011, according to New York City health officials. Two died from the disease and two others suffered brain damage.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/israel-s-chief-rabbinate-says-oral-suction-at-circumcision-is-preferred-1.517349

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  187. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “There’s a helluva lot going on in the world.

    Like all the wars against Muslims unsympathetic to Israel ?

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  188. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    You quote ,I believe ,the Koran. A pity those nobel sentiments about Women quoted don’t translate down at the Mosque or in the Islamic Sharia Courts
    Now why is that.?

    Because Islam, like any religion, can be hijacked for political purposes. Not only must ordinary Muslims contend with Shia/Sunni/Wahabist political differences, they’ve also got to deal with the recruiting of religious extremists by western agencies for the purposes of proxy terrorism.

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  189. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    recruiting of religious extremists by western agencies for the purposes of proxy terrorism.

    his week, the Obama administration quietly released $1.5 billion in foreign aid to the new Egyptian government, now dominated by a Brotherhood…http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/295501/obama-funds-egyptian-government-andrew-c-mccarthy

    Obama approves military aid for Syrian rebels
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/obama-approves-military-aid-syrian-rebels-article-1.1372540

    Source: Obama approves arming Syrian rebels
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/13/us-confirms-chemical-weapons-syria/2420763/

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  190. Jack5 (5,161 comments) says:

    Kea, I don’t understand why you care so much about the wars between religions when it seems you are of a scientific background, and seem to be a cynic when it comes to religion. It’s hard to see what would make you give a damn about the conflicts between Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.

    You do you believe broadly in evolution? Do you rank Islam’s rejection of this equal to fundamentalists’ belief in Creationism? Is one worse than the other in your view?

    Scuttlebutt has it you have a good head for physics. Is your interest in Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, akin to Oppenheimer’s interest in Hindu scripture, notably the Bhagavad-Gita? Or is Kiwiblog just light relief for you, Kea?

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  191. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    Islam was hijacked more than 1000 years ago. See The Closing of the Muslim Mind on Amazon.

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  192. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Jack5, that is an easy one to answer.

    I care so much due to the terrible harm religion does. If it were harmless I would not bother saying a word. Forget history, just pick up a newspaper and you will see.

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  193. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Lucy any comment on the acid attacks, beatings etc for modesty crimes (or being a suspected Christian) by gods-chosen ones ?

    Or are you ok with that sort of carry-on now ? [suddenly]

    Its okay if you are. Just remember to apply the same standards to Muslim extremists, least you be found a lying bigot.

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  194. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    The closing of the Muslim Mind The Closing of the Muslim Mind: How Intellectual Suicide Created the Modern Islamist
    by Robert R. Reilly

    “People are shocked and frightened by the behavior coming out the Islamic world—not only because it is violent, but also because it is seemingly inexplicable. While there are many answers to the question of “what went wrong” in the Muslim world, no one has decisively answered why it went wrong. Until now.

    In this eye-opening new book, foreign policy expert Robert R. Reilly uncovers the root of our contemporary crisis: a pivotal struggle waged within the Muslim world nearly a millennium ago. In a heated battle over the role of reason, the side of irrationality won. The deformed theology that resulted, Reilly reveals, produced the spiritual pathology of Islamism, and a deeply dysfunctional culture.

    Terrorism—from 9/11, to London, Madrid, and Mumbai, to the Christmas 2009 attempted airline bombing—is the most obvious manifestation of this crisis. But Reilly shows that the pathology extends much further. The Closing of the Muslim Mind solves such puzzles as:

    · why peace is so elusive in the Middle East

    · why the Arab world stands near the bottom of every measure of human development

    · why scientific inquiry is nearly dead in the Islamic world

    · why Spain translates more books in a single year than the entire Arab world has in the past thousand years

    · why some people in Saudi Arabia still refuse to believe man has been to the moon

    · why Muslim media frequently present natural disasters like Hurricane Katrina as God’s direct retribution

    Delving deeper than previous polemics and simplistic analyses, The Closing of the Muslim Mind provides the answers the West has so desperately needed in confronting the Islamist crisis.”

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8112525-the-closing-of-the-muslim-mind

    Added also could be why Islam treats women as half human and why young girls can be carried around in sacks .etc, etc

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  195. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    The Closing of the Muslim Mind provides the answers the West has so desperately needed in confronting the Islamist crisis.

    Does it explain how there wouldn’t be a crisis if the West weren’t quite so nasty to the “ragheads,” or is that perspective out of scope of the “in-depth” investigation?

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  196. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,187 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 4:

    Yours is an absolute cop out blaming the West for the implementation of extreme Sharia Law by e.g the Taliban and Boku Haram. Why Women in the British based Sharia and other Courts have no rights. Why Iran and Saudi Arabia still have statues against Sorcery and Witchcraft and Stoning for adultery , especially for women ,so accused In Iran.

    Reid, read the book. I doubt if you could do so in either Iran or Saudi Arabia.
    Thank your lucky stars but to be fair I do note you do, like kea and UT, have a strong taste for dictatorships and Theocracies.

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  197. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Kea (10,596 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 4:26 pm,

    Obama approves aid for Syrian rebels whilst Putin can approve aid for Basher al Assad with impunity .?

    Time frame for the imminent US / Israeli led invasion and occupation of Syria.???

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  198. Viking2 (11,571 comments) says:

    Meanwhile out in the sun away from the computer screen things happen.

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  199. Pete George (23,685 comments) says:

    Plans to ban synthetic substances.

    @DavidCunliffeMP

    Labour will introduce legislation to remove synthetic cannabis and other psychoactive substances from sale immediately.

    From the Labour website:

    Labour is to introduce legislation to remove synthetic cannabis and other psychoactive substances from sale immediately.

    We’re not going to let unsafe products be sold to our young people. These drugs are clearly harmful and addictive, yet they are being sold, legally and cheaply, in communities across New Zealand.

    We have all seen the horror stories of the effects these drugs are having on young people.

    Labour warned at the time the Psychoactive Substances Act was passed that it was being rushed and mistakes were likely to be made.

    Failing to put the safety testing regime for these products in place means that is exactly what has happened. The Government promised that untested and potentially dangerous products would not be sold legally

    But they are still available and New Zealanders won’t stand for it any more.

    These drugs are a scourge on our communities. National has failed to fix this problem; Labour is not prepared to wait any longer.

    We are putting forward legislation that will remove all psychoactive substances from shop shelves immediately. I call on all parties to support it.

    This law will put a stop to the sale of all synthetic cannabis and other psychoactive drugs currently being sold. Labour will not allow these products to be sold again unless they pass a very stringent safety testing regime, and we won’t permit animal testing.

    Bill: https://www.labour.org.nz/sites/default/files/issues/psych_subs_untested_am_bill.pdf

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  200. Viking2 (11,571 comments) says:

    calendar girl (1,110 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 9:33 am

    Viking2@9:02am – I agree with Rodney Hide’s comments on Gardiner’s motives, but what’s your own reference to this being an “.. ..”Irish, Catholic, Maori thing” all about?
    ===============================

    I have walked among them and observed.

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  201. Pete George (23,685 comments) says:

    In the meantime something is being done (short term):

    Legal highs get blanket ban

    The Government has announced today the remaining 41 legal high substances not banned by the Psychoactive Substances Act will be taken off the shelves. The highs will be banned for two weeks until proven to be low-risk, Associate Health Minister Peter Dunne has revealed.

    The legislation will be passed under urgency when Parliament convenes on May 6.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Legal-highs-get-blanket-ban/tabid/1607/articleID/341710/Default.aspx

    I hope this doesn’t get diverted into a political knee-jerk contest.

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  202. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Yours is an absolute cop out blaming the West for the implementation of extreme Sharia Law by e.g the Taliban and Boku Haram.

    I see you’re still having trouble with reading comprehension, stevieboy.

    Ruslan Tsarnaev, the outspoken uncle of the [Tsarnaev brothers] was married to Samantha A. Fuller until 2004. Samantha’s father is Graham Fuller, the senior CIA person who architected the Afghan Islamic fundamentalist Mujahideen war against the Soviets. He is also implicated in creating a global jihad network, presumably acting on behalf of CIA interests.
    http://www.voltairenet.org/article178524.html

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  203. dirty harry (514 comments) says:

    Another violent indigenous takes the easy way out to earn money..

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9982951/Fourth-gas-station-held-up-in-eight-days

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  204. Viking2 (11,571 comments) says:

    Todd Barclay Nat candidate for Clutha Sthlnd

    National Party members in Clutha Southland have selected Todd Barclay as their candidate for September’s election.

    Todd Barclay was raised in Dipton and Gore, and at just 24 years old has established a strong mix of public and private sector experience in the public relations industry.

    Working in Wellington and then Auckland, Todd worked for Bill English and cabinet ministers Hekia Parata and Gerry Brownlee. He left Parliament to work for one of New Zealand’s leading public relations consultancies, before taking on a role as Corporate Affairs Manager for Philip Morris.

    http://homepaddock.wordpress.com/2014/04/27/todd-barclay-nat-candidate-for-clutha-sthlnd/

    wow how impressive. that’s the second Philip Morris candidate in a week.

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  205. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Terrorism—from 9/11

    stevieboy, it’s generally not a good idea to try and push western terrorism using the Zionist version of events, as you just end up looking stupid when it becomes obvious that the facts are at odd with the press reports.

    Since the Sulaiman Shah incident implicated the US in conspiracy to commit a false flag operation in the Middle East, it isn’t much of a stretch to see the connection between a criminal state, explosive demolition of WTC buildings 1,2 & 7, and state participation in 9/11 beyond the several exercises which were running concurrently with the attack.

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  206. dirty harry (514 comments) says:

    ..and another group of violent indigenous nz’ers take the lazy way out

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9982742/Armed-quartet-rob-Palmerston-North-dairy

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  207. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    In a heated battle over the role of reason, the side of irrationality won. The deformed theology that resulted, Reilly reveals, produced the spiritual pathology of Islamism, and a deeply dysfunctional culture.

    The pivotal theological difference between in Islam and Christianity is the meaning of the crucifixion. Looking at the event from the perspective of Judaism, it is the Christian theology which is deformed, not the Muslim theology.

    That they said (in boast), ‘We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah’ — but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not — nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself.

    The Qur’an, Surah 4:157-158

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  208. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    After reading today’s GD this seems about right. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/570hvk4uqpxbrzw/Atheist%204.jpg

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  209. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    When confronted with this we get no comment from stephieboy. Makes me wonder just how opposed he really is to religious nutters, though he did launch into another attack on Muslims.

    Personally I think this is disgusting behaviour when anyone does it. Even the Master Race of God Chosen, as it the case here:

    In June 2008, a modesty patrol in Beitar Illit was suspected ofspilling acid on a teenage girl for wearing trousers.[8][9]

    In August 2008, the Israel State Prosecutor’s office indicted seven men, allegedly from a Jerusalem modesty squad, for beating a woman and threatening her with death regarding her relationships with men. The ringleader was charged with conspiracy to commit a crime, aggravated assault, and extortion. In the same month, a man said to be a member of a chastity squad was arrested for alleged involvement in the torching of a store selling MP4 players.[10]

    In February 2012, a 70-year-old haredi woman was attacked and beaten in her home by a Modesty Patrol who suspected her of being a Christian missionary.[11]

    These attacks are not at all uncommon. Funnily enough the orthodox Jews are against the establishment of the modern state of Israel. The reason being it is a false state on religious grounds. Yet stephieboy and his band of fundamentalist Christian two faced bigots reckon there is big difference between them and Muslims. Ya have to laugh… sometimes :)

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  210. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Empire Under Obama, Part 1: Political Language and the ‘Mafia Principles’ of International Relations
    Andrew Gavin Marshall

    In the first part of this essay series on ‘Empire Under Obama,’ I will aim to establish some fundamental premises of modern imperialism, or what is often referred to as ‘international relations,’ ‘geopolitics’, or ‘foreign policy.’ Specifically, I will refer to George Orwell’s writing on ‘political language’ in order to provide a context in which the discourse of imperialism may take place out in the open with very little comprehension on the part of the public which consumes the information; and further, to draw upon Noam Chomsky’s suggestion of understanding international relations as the application of ‘Mafia Principles’ to foreign policy. This part provides some background on these issues, and future parts to this essay series will be examining the manifestation of empire in recent years.

    http://www.hamptoninstitution.org/empireunderobamapartone.html

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  211. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    After reading today’s GD this seems about right.

    It’s stephie and Shawn’s fault nasska. Luckily one of them vanished in a puff of logic so happy mischief will be resuming as soon as the other one makes a similar mistake, trouble is, it appears you can talk logic till you’re blue in the face and he still doesn’t get it.

    Anyway, Russia again outwits the Washington dullards. Hooray.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/26/360188/russia-to-respond-to-us-threats/

    Funnily enough the orthodox Jews are against the establishment of the modern state of Israel.

    That’s because they’re anti-semite Neo-Nazis Kea. According to Shawn and stephie.

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  212. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    Legal highs get blanket ban

    They’ll be toasting Dunny down at Mongrel Mob and Black Power headquarters tonight.

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  213. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    Kea

    All & any religions will end up with a percentage of spaced out whacks who get carried away with the hocus pocus. As you instanced the actions of Godsquad in Israel, the Mutaween in Saudi Arabia & the torture of heretics by the Roman Catholics.

    They are quite mad & should be avoided at all costs.

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  214. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    …..” Luckily one of them vanished in a puff of logic”….

    Sadly, I fear that the absence will be only temporary Reid. :)

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  215. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    nasska, it is not the religion that bothers me it is the harm they do. The suspension of logic and inability to admit the obvious faults of those they prefer is actually frightening and goes a long way to explain the conflicts we see today.

    Compare reaction to the report of the 70 year old woman being brutally bashed in her home, with similar reports on KB. Not a world said because Jews did it. If it were Honi the Maori those same people would scream for blood and condemn it in the strongest terms.

    But the religious Master Race (God loves them most) did it, so its ok with the resident god botherers. Sickening and frightening stuff !

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  216. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Thats right nassaka , sorry to blow Reid’s and your bubble headed illusions. This tells us something about the reputation and nuttiness of Reid’s former link above,

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/22/359566/missing-plane-mystery-solved/

    Yet another bubble head kea drones on.!

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  217. SGA (1,143 comments) says:

    nasska at 6:24 pm

    After reading today’s GD this seems about right. :)
    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/570hvk4uqpxbrzw/Atheist%204.jpg

    So that’s what an emotionally stunted psychopathic atheist looks like – I had wondered.

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  218. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    This tells us something about the reputation and nuttiness of Reid’s former link above,

    Using stephie and Shawn’s (SS) logic, these links prove the article I gave above is really very brainy indeed.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/02/13/350480/mathematics-as-beautiful-as-art-study/

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/01/25/347617/worlds-most-accurate-clock-unveiled/

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  219. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    I’d make a lousy apologist for the Godwhacks Kea but “Honi the Hori” is a bit closer to home & likely to attract our attention than the poor old bird in Israel.

    But you’re right in that religion is not short of those who’ll turn a blind eye if it’s within the interests of their sect for them to do so.

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  220. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    What a lot of ignorant dribble from kea and reid, the Orthodox Jews have parties that have been in coalition government of the state of Israel. David ben Gurion gave Orthodox Jews privileged status when the state was established.

    The religious factions that criticise the state of Israel are very much a minority, a portion of the ultra-orthodox and Neturai Karta (of a faction of Judaism that is quite separate to Orthodox Judaism).

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  221. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    stephieboy, you have made your beliefs clear to all today. I accept your beliefs, but don’t bother with the fake outrage next time a Muslim does the same things or some scumbag beats up a little old lady in her home.

    Same with little infants being genitally mutilated followed by having their genitals sucked on by one of God chosen.

    We now have a clear and disturbing picture of your “morals” [sic]

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  222. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    Totally unthreatening SGA……I wonder how we get such bad press. :)

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  223. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    SPC, any comment on the acid attack, beatings, spitting on and attacking Christians, or is your morality suspended for the self declared Master Race living in their supremacist State too ?

    Feel free to pour condemnation on Muslims who do those things. I will back you up there. I just want to know how you feel about JEWS doing it ?

    Or does that make you too uncomfortable confronting your bigotry ?

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  224. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    According to the NWO (which apparently, to some idiots, doesn’t exist); Russia’s been a naughty boy and hasn’t played the game. Tsk tsk.

    Shame the writer forgot the mention the US was the one who broke the agreement Yeltsin made in the early 1990’s, whereby Nato wouldn’t entice the states in Russia’s region to join it. But that doesn’t matter. Washington doesn’t have to keep its agreements. It’s “exceptional…”

    http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/christopher-r–hill-calls-on-the-west-to-prepare-for-a-long-struggle-with-a-revanchist-russia

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  225. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    nasska, do you think Geeeeeeeesus would approve of his followers on KB ?

    (Not that Jews believe in Jesus. Muslims do. But not Jews. Rumor is Jews killed poor old JC Maybe he tried to turn Christian like the 70 year old lady beaten to a pulp in her home by Jewish men)

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  226. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    On the earlier debate here, some people are confusing natural law and their claim of its connection to theism with natural law and their claim of its connection to theism.

    Consider this for illumination (I hope reid is not frightened of the word)

    1. theism rules, but deism reigns.
    2. atheists do not know or believe, but agnostics just do not know what to believe.
    3. faith guides morals, but human society informs individuals as to ethical behaviour.
    4. God does not inform religion, religion is built to inform us of God
    5. The concept of there being God inspires faith, regardless of whether this faith is inspired by God.

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  227. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    SPC the debate about Natural Law concerned rights.

    I claimed there are no rights, only what we create and maintain ourselves.

    Ugly claimed there was a Natural Law, but was unable to provide one single example to support his claim. I asked nicely but he became angry and confused, lashed out and ran away to sulk.

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  228. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea, if your response to someone who corrects your lies about Orthodox Jews and the state of Israel is to infer/attack the person as an apologist, and then call them a bigot – you have just profiled yourself as someone beyond reasoned debate, someone who hates a group of people and who will immediately transfer this hate onto anyone who calls you on it.

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  229. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    Kea

    Many of the Christians who comment on this blog put me in mind of Mahatma Gandhi’s words:

    …..”Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you Christians – you are not like him.”….

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  230. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    some people are confusing natural law and their claim of its connection to theism with natural law and their claim of its connection to theism.

    Looks like that one didn’t make it through proofreading so well.

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  231. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Jeez, talk about Ground Hog Day, I’ve been on holiday for over a week and the conversation hasn’t changed! I’d tell you lot to get a life, but I have a feeling all but three or four of you are robots.

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  232. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    I asked nicely but he became angry and confused, lashed out and ran away to sulk.

    Why would I want to waste my time with an an arrogant dick like you, Kea?

    “UglyTruth, explain natural rights and give an example of a “natural right” ?

    And no Ugly, abusing me and running off like the intellectual coward and fraud you are does not count…”

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  233. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    UglyTruth, yes obviously, some people are confusing “natural rights” and their claim of its connection to theism with natural law and their claim of its connection to theism.

    If the natural way of living beings is connected to God and a theism, and called natural law, its connection to natural rights is via human society and how that society organises recognition of rights.

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  234. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    Judith

    What is a life & where would we find one? :)

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  235. Manolo (14,070 comments) says:

    The tone has sank to underwater levels since the arrival of the staunch Islamist and jew-hater Ugly Truth.
    It’s better to stay away to avoid reading his ramblings, those of a lunatic.

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  236. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    nasska, what do you mean by the use of the word find … .

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  237. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (9,597 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 7:31 pm

    Try taking some Tongkat Ali Ginseng and the answer will reveal itself. ;-)

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  238. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    The tone has sank to underwater levels

    Some of the globes most beautiful creatures, and plant life lives under the water :-)

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  239. Left Right and Centre (2,997 comments) says:

    http://www.mandatory.com/2014/03/26/these-students-are-the-20-laziest-people-on-earth?

    eg. . . haha…. called the restaurant to send the waiter back to their table. Downloading dvds and TV remote apps at home rather than get up to get them. Modern technology – brilliant !!

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  240. Manolo (14,070 comments) says:

    @Judith: You are right. I should have written “under several feet/meters of manure” instead of water. :-)

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  241. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    SPC, you corrected nothing and are an apologist for religious intolerance, violence and hate. Your liar too.

    Not only orthodox Jews, but many regular and secular Jews are against the state of Israel. The state of Israel was not to be founded by men, but by God. It fails on religious grounds. Secular Jews are opposed to a violent supremacist state, it is not about the religion for them.

    Here is some links the ADL has not got around to removing yet in their campaign to *censor the internet

    http://www.truetorahjews.org/

    http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm

    For American Jews, Dissent Against Israel Has Become Mainstream
    The exceedingly narrow range of “correct opinion” on Israel for American Jews isn’t holding together like it used to. Is a Jewish glasnost coming to America?

    http://www.alternet.org/story/62618/for_american_jews,_dissent_against_israel_has_become_mainstream

    “The Jerusalem Post

    Razbozov called for countries to enact legislation restricting online hate,

    The Anti-Defamation League testified regarding its ongoing relationship with Internet hosting company GoDaddy to take down anti-Semitic websites, citing some 30 sites it said were taken down by the American company.

    Facebook has also been working with the ADL, its representative said.

    “Facebook is coming around, they just need time,”

    http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Internet-antisemitism-a-mortal-danger-340980

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  242. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

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  243. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Manolo (12,651 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 7:43 pm

    Yeah, now that would be a lot more insulting!

    Having spent some time snorkeling over the past week, I kind of thought taking things below water would not be the least bit unpleasant.

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  244. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    …..”, what do you mean by the use of the word find “…..

    Okay SPC, you’ve got me…..I’ll withdraw.

    Anything’s better than inviting a Godnutter a chance to start their sales patter. :)

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  245. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    nasska, it would have been a wide open door, was the life that of someone once living, so where do we “find” them now … . Where do we go when we go …

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  246. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    UglyTruth, yes obviously, some people are confusing “natural rights” and their claim of its connection to theism with natural law and their claim of its connection to theism.

    Not sure how the distinction between natural rights and natural law is related to any confusion of issues, can you please elaborate?

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  247. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ SPC (4,692 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 7:49 pm

    That’s easy to answer – try digging up a grave where someone has been buried for 50 years, and you’ll soon see where they go, and it’s not far.

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  248. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea, research properly.

    True Torah Jews are Karaites, they include Netural Karta, they are not Orthodox Jews, they are a separate group that separated from other Jews a long time ago – they stress the Torah and how it is read in each generation rather than a tradition of learning passed on (oral law etc) that is the Orthodox Jews.

    They are a small minority of religious Jews who are subset of the total born to Jewish mothers.

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  249. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    nasska I hope I did not upset any religious folk today. I have been reading about Jesus in the hope of becoming more sensitive and tolerant. It seems Jesus did not have much in common with his supporters here on KB. Peace :)

    Jesus as an openly gay man

    The most astounding finding from the newly discovered lead codices is that Jesus Christ was unambiguously and openly gay. He and his disciples formed a same-sex coterie, bound by feelings of love and mutual support. There are recorded instances of same-sex activity – the “beloved disciple” plays a significant role – and there is affirmation of the joys of friendship and of living and loving together.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/04/jesus-gay-man-codices

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  250. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    Griff

    The fastest fishing I’ve ever experienced was off my uncle’s launch just off Karewa Island out fom the Mount. About 30feet under the boat there was this shimmering school of Blue Mao Mao. Triple headers with a salted pipi bait.

    About five minutes & it was all over but we weren’t short of fish for a bit.

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  251. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    UT, if this

    “If the natural way of living beings is connected to God and a theism, and called natural law, its connection to natural rights is via human society and how that society organises recognition of rights.”

    does not inform you as to the answer to your question I am not going to bother continuing dialogue on the point.

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  252. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kea (10,604 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 7:54 pm

    If you want to become more sensitive and tolerant, I suggest you do some volunteering for the SPCA – working with animals, especially those that have been ill treated, will teach you more about the capacity of human kind, than most books will.

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  253. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    If you didn’t upset any of God’s little helpers so far then that quote should do the trick Kea. :)

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  254. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    SPC squirms like a salted slug when confronted with facts….

    Controversy over new Israeli law highlights growing ultra-Orthodox population

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/13/controversy-over-new-israeli-law-highlights-growing-ultra-orthodox-population/

    Orthodox Population Grows Faster Than First Figures in Pew #JewishAmerica Study
    Read more: http://forward.com/articles/187429/orthodox-population-grows-faster-than-first-figure/?p=all#ixzz304UBXaGr

    A piece in the New York Times explores how in Israel, a growing ultra-Orthodox population is struggling because, according to their religious tradition, men don’t work. Studies show that due to “their commitment to full-time Torah study and a fear of assimilation,” only 4 of 10 ultra-Orthodox men hold jobs in Israel. This means their families often live in extreme poverty, supported only by low-wage jobs held by their wives.

    http://jezebel.com/israel-looks-for-solutions-to-its-ultra-orthodox-men-pr-511873367

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  255. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    kea, ultra-orthodox Jews are not Orthodox Jews, they are two different groups.

    You can google the two, and find stories of the two groups having turf wars in Jerusalem.

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  256. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    nasska, emerging research indicates Jesus was not only gay but Black. Which makes one wonder just how “virginal” mum really was !

    Sorry I was insensitive ! You might be Jewish and think Jesus was nothing, if he even existed. :)

    SPC, you left it a bit late to impress anyone with your knowledge of Jews. You have shot yourself in the foot. Others have the internet too ya know.

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  257. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    A very short lady goes into her doctor’s office complaining of
    an irritated crotch. After an examination the doctor sighs,

    “I don’t seem to see any problem. Does it get better or worse at
    any time?”

    “Yeah, its really bad whenever it rains.” she replies.

    “Well, then,” says the Doc, “Next time it rains, get in here at
    once, and we’ll take another look at it.”

    Two weeks later it’s raining really hard, and the little lady
    shows up at the doctor’s office.

    “Doctor, it’s really bad today. Please, you have to help me!!”

    “Well, let’s have a look,” he says as he lifts her up onto the
    table.

    “Oh, yes, I think I see the problem. Nurse, bring me a surgical
    kit. Don’t worry ma’am this won’t hurt a bit.”

    The dwarf lady closes her eyes in painful anticipation. The
    doctor begins snipping away and finishes a few minutes later.

    “There you go, ma’am, try that.”

    She walks back and forth around the office and exclaims,

    “That’s great, Doc, what did you do?!”

    “I just took a couple of inches off the top of your gumboots.”

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  258. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    The Haredi. Another group of modern tolerant Jews SPC & Co would prefer you did not know about. So much tolerance, not like the regressive Muslims ! LOL :)

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  259. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kea (10,606 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 8:02 pm

    Back in those days, you were either a virgin or you weren’t. The condition was decided solely on whether the hymen was still intact. Of course, as many a ‘young lady’ will tell you, one can remain a virgin and still have a lot of fun, and even get pregnant.. ;-)

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  260. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea, you and reid made ignorant comments about Orthodox Jews opposing the state of Israel and I handed you your head.

    True Torah Jews, Neturai Karta and ultra-orthodox Jews are not Orthodox Jews. Game over.

    The growth of the number of ultraorthodox Jews in Israel is an irony as the men all live off welfare while doing lifelong study, or have been.

    There are now moves to require conscription of them, and one suspects that right to study will one day be restricted to one child per family (the nominated first born).

    Haredi are ultraorthodox.

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  261. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    SPC, but they do oppose the establishment of the modern state of Israel ! Are you just hoping people will accept your lie and not check ?

    These guys spend their entire lives studying religious texts. They don’t even work. They say Israel should not exist on religious grounds. Are you seriously pretending to know more than they do about their religion they spend their lives studying ? Incredible arrogance !

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  262. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Judith, it appears Mary was down with the “brothers”, though not in the way usually portrayed ;)

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  263. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    SPC, human society seems to be alienated from its natural rights, since it serves the empire

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  264. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea, more baseless lies at 8.06pm, I was the one who brought up the ultraorthodox when I mentioned that some of them and the Karaitie Jews opposed the state of Israel, not the Orthodox Jews as you claimed.

    It requires more than one person, an organisation no less, to truth check your posts.

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  265. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Ugly, still waiting for one single example of a Natural Right ?

    Until you provide it, you have zero credibility.

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  266. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea, 8.13pm what lie?

    You claimed Orthodox Jews opposed the state of Israel, ultraorthodox are not Orthodox.

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  267. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    The claim/lie:

    SPC (4,697 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 8:19 pm
    Kea, more baseless lies at 8.06pm, I was the one who brought up the ultraorthodox when I mentioned that some of them and the Karaitie Jews opposed the state of Israel, not the Orthodox Jews as you claimed.

    The truth:

    Why Orthodox Jews are opposed to the Zionist “State”

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1506.htm

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  268. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    True Torah Jews, Neturai Karta and ultra-orthodox Jews are not Orthodox Jews. Game over.

    Yes, Orthodox Jews are Rabbinical, and the Rabbinical/Karaite split is quite significant in Judasim.

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  269. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    SPC, I tire of this. Even Kea has had enough. Go throw some acid on a harlot or beat up a granny like your Israeli mates do.

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  270. All_on_Red (1,647 comments) says:

    Kea
    Not so sure about the gay part but looking historically it seems clear that Jesus had dark olive skin, brown eyes and curly hair- just like everyone else at that time.
    My mum wasn’t happy when I shattered her propaganda missionary view of Jesus being blued eyed and white etc…

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  271. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    A Natural Right is something that is universal and cannot be removed or given away or sold to another, and it is not contingent on any legislation, or belief, culture or a particular type of government (or any government for that matter). An example would be thoughts – everyone has the right to think.

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  272. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea, the state of Israel does not exist on religious grounds, the Jews who established it were secular Jews. They could not care less what religious Jews thought when they did so.

    As for what the Haredi in Israel think, many religious Jews said that religious Jews should not return until the Messiah comes, they would regard the religious Jews in Israel as apostates.

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  273. Viking2 (11,571 comments) says:

    A boy says to his dad,

    “Why do they say gardeners have got green fingers when their fingers aren’t green?”

    His dad replies, “It’s just a saying, son. It’s like when someone is caught stealing something, they say that they’ve been caught ‘red-handed’, even though their hands are actually black.”

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  274. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea, your tactic of associating Jews with what some Jews do, is dubious. Your tactic of associating those who question you on this with apologising for the bad things some Jews do, is also dubious.

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  275. Left Right and Centre (2,997 comments) says:

    Even Kea has had enough.

    Cocoon is on TV4. :)

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  276. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea 8.22pm, some Orthodox Jews does not mean Orthodox Jews, just as some New Zealanders wanting us to become a state of Oz does not mean New Zealand wants to become a state of Oz. No more than some Catholics support same sex marriage means the Catholic Church does.

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  277. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Kea, your tactic of associating Jews with what some Jews do, is dubious.

    So its dubious when its Jews, but is ok when its Muslims ? Try writing the same sentence and replace Jew with Muslim. Then you will have taken a step into the light.

    It was people like YOU who persecuted Jews in Europe on the basis of their faith. Not people like me. No wonder so many Jews regard Christians with contempt and suspicion. They don’t spit on Islamic clergy in Israel buddy.

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  278. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    F-35 is a piece of outdated expensive crap.

    http://rt.com/usa/154956-stealth-jet-f35-growler/

    $1,000,000,000,000 for 36 units = $277,777,777,777 per.

    Which won’t even work against the new Air Defence technologies being developed to counter the stealth technologies.

    Meanwhile the US has 44 million citizens who rely on food stamps.

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  279. Viking2 (11,571 comments) says:

    An incredible new weapon.. Think about the ramifications of this new development on inner-city warfare and rescuing hostages behind locked, secured doors. Israeli ingenuity at its best!

    http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/brilliant-huge-boom-tiny-bullet

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  280. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    Why Muslims Are Becoming the Best Evangelists:

    Missiologist Dave Garrison documents global surge in Muslims leading Muslims to Christ. He calls it, “Unprecedented.”

    “Muslim background believers are leading Muslims to Christ in staggering numbers, but not in the West. They are doing this primarily in Muslim-majority nations almost completely under the radar—of everyone. In the new book, A Wind in the House of Islam: How God is Drawing Muslims Around the World to Faith in Jesus Christ, Garrison takes the reader on his journey through what he describes as the nine rooms in the Muslim-majority world: Indo-Malaysia, East Africa, North Africa, Eastern South Asia, Western South Asia, Persia, Turkestan, West Africa, and the Arab world. Muslims in each of those regions have created indigenous, voluntary movements to Christ.”

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/april-web-only/why-muslims-are-becoming-best-evangelists.html

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  281. MT_Tinman (3,257 comments) says:

    Judith (5,673 comments) says:
    April 27th, 2014 at 8:26 pm
    An example would be thoughts – everyone has the right to think.

    but not, thankfully, the right to express that thought.

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  282. Viking2 (11,571 comments) says:

    NOT ALL THIEVES ARE STUPID

    1.. LONG-TERM PARKING:

    Some people left their car in the long-term parking at San Jose while away, and someone broke into the car. Using the information on the car’s registration in the glove compartment, they drove the car to the people’s home in Pebble Beach and robbed it. So I guess if we are going to leave the car in long-term parking, we should NOT leave the registration/insurance cards in it, nor your remote garage door opener. This gives us something to think about with all our new electronic technology.

    2.. GPS:
    Someone had their car broken into while t hey were at a football game. Their car was parked on the green which was adjacent to the football stadium and specially allotted to football fans. Things stolen from the car included a garage door remote control, some money and a GPS which had been prominently mounted on the dashboard. When the victims got home, they found that their house had been ransacked and just about everything worth anything had been stolen. The thieves had used the GPS to guide them to the house. They then used the garage remote control to open the garage door and gain entry to the house. The thieves knew the owners were at the football game, they knew what time the game was scheduled to finish and so they knew how much time they had to clean out the house. It would appear that they had brought a truck to empty the house of its contents. Something to consider if you have a GPS – don’t put your home address in it… Put a nearby address (like a store or gas station) so you can still find your way home if you need to, but no one else would know where you live if your GPS were stolen.

    3.. CELL PHONES:
    I never thought of this……. This lady has now changed her habit of how she lists her names on her cell phone after her handbag was stolen. Her handbag, which contained her cell phone, credit card, wallet, etc., was stolen. Twent y minutes later when she called her hubby, from a pay phone telling him what had happened, hubby says, “I received your text asking about our Pin number and I’ve replied a little while ago.” When they rushed down to the bank, the bank staff told them all the money was already withdrawn. The thief had actually used the stolen cell phone to text “hubby” in the contact list and got hold of the pin number. Within 20 minutes he had withdrawn all the money from their bank account.

    Moral of the lesson:
    a.. Do not disclose the relationship between you and the people in your contact list. Avoid using names like Home, Honey, Hubby, Sweetheart, Dad, Mom, etc….
    b.. And very importantly, when sensitive info is being asked through texts, CONFIRM by calling back.
    c. Also, when you’re being texted by friends or family to meet them somewhere, be sure to call back to confirm that the message came from them. If you don’t reach them, be very careful about going places to meet “family and friends” who text you.

    4.. PURSE IN THE GROCERY CART SCAM:
    A lady went grocery-shopping at a local mall and left her purse sitting in the children’s seat of the cart while she reached something off a shelf… wait till you read the WHOLE story! Her wallet was stolen, and she reported it to the store personnel. After returning home, she received a phone call from the Mall Security to say that they had her wallet and that although there was no money in it, it did still hold her personal papers. She immedi ately went to pick up her wallet, only to be told by Mall Security that they had not called her. By the time she returned home again, her house had been broken into and burglarized. The thieves knew that by calling and saying they were Mall Security, they could lure her out of her house long enough for them to burglarize it.

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  283. Viking2 (11,571 comments) says:

    Police reveal that a woman arrested for shoplifting had a whole salami in her underwear.. When asked why, she said it was because she was missing her Italian boyfriend.

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  284. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Meanwhile the US has 44 million citizens who rely on food stamps.

    Reid, but not the ones who milked the (borrowed) trillions for the F-35 and F-22 Craptor.

    The F-35 is a joke and it has gone from bad to worse. As one expert who has worked on developing numerous US military planes said “f-35 can’t turn can’t climb can’t run”. He also said it is useless for ground support as its silly little wings and fat middle mean it can not fly slow.

    Still I imagine it will do okay dropping cluster bombs on Muslim peasants in Africa and Afghanistan armed with daggers and rusty old rifles.

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  285. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    On holiday in the States my wife went camping when she was due her period and unfortunately attracted a bear.

    She ripped the poor things head off.

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  286. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea, er why does challenging you on your dubious routine as per Jews have any connection to not minding it being done to Moslems instead?

    And why does challenging you on this have to do with historic persecution of Jews in Europe by Christians – oh that’s right, its common for Arabs opposed to Zionism to blame it on the Christians who persecuted Jews in Europe and thus dislike Christian support for the state of Israel.

    Your beliefs are predicated on the idea that it is only Christians who support the state of Israel who will call you on your dubious comments on Jews, is that because no Arab Moslem would? Or you presume those on the left will not be here on Kiwiblog to call your shit, foul smelling crap.

    Deists reign, theists misrule.

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  287. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    An incredible new weapon.. Think about the ramifications of this new development on inner-city warfare and rescuing hostages behind locked, secured doors. Israeli ingenuity at its best!

    Reid, before you ask, no, it isn’t a clever device for poisoning the wells.

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  288. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    Reid, before you ask, no, it isn’t a clever device for poisoning the wells.

    And why would I ask that, wat?

    The only people I don’t hate but insist on calling bullshit on, are those who are hell-bent on destroying the Jewish people. Apparently people like you, Shawn and stephie don’t seem to like me doing that. I think you may be anti-semitic. Shame on you.

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  289. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    Defending Christian Zionism: David Pawson.

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  290. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    SPC what a load of incoherent waffle.

    1. Unlike you I condemn wrong doing regardless of the religion of the perpetrators.

    2. Unlike you I do not suspend reason and morality and make special pleading for the self declared Master Race of Jews.

    3. Unlike you I am against persecution of any religions group.

    4. Unlike you I oppose all religion as harmful nonsense.

    You are okay with morality police, acid attacks, beatings and persecution, just as long as the “Chosen Ones” are doing it. Not one word of condemnation have you written. What a disgusting and frightening creature you are.

    Oh the “dubious comments” are the direct quotes from Israeli news services. Dear oh dear !

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  291. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    Defending Christian Zionism: David Pawson.

    Yes, I’ve been waiting for you to find him Shawn. Took you long enough. David’s correct on lots of things. Sadly he’s incorrect on this. I’ve found a lot of clergy and Christian teachers like David while strong on theology are weak on politics particularly the devious kind. Perhaps it’s because they spend most of their time looking for the good in people so they miss the signs when they come across people like this.

    Oh that’s right. You’re not reading this.

    Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

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  292. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Nasska
    I fished at the poor nights when it was still legal :lol:

    Went on many long weekend dive charters out to the nights.
    crystal clear 30m and you can see the larger snapper rising up of the white sand bottom thousands of Blue and pink mao mao parrot fish damsels and trevelle and pannys that you try hard not to catch.

    From tie die arch with hundreds of six foot stingrays doing their thang all around to wild beast point where schools of 30 to 60 kg yellow fin tuna and marlin come past.

    The place is mindblowing if you dive . A snorkel can be just as good if you get the chance.

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  293. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea, so you malign Jews and anyone who would question you on this is immediately characterised as guilty of being compared in the negative to your superior self.

    Based on this 4 point dogma of comparative status you are superior to those who dare question you in 4 ways

    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.

    Sounds like you have your own superior person status ready to declare to the world online.

    One question, is this character assassination of your critics a parable about the imperial religions requiring the sacrifice of peoples and nations to establish their world order, or just a sign of your personal narcissism?

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  294. Left Right and Centre (2,997 comments) says:

    Vikng2 – it’s a bit of a lose-lose with criminals and lowlives. You shouldn’t have to lock anything or do anything to have to protect against crime but that’s the way it is.

    Makes us all prisoners and victims even if by some miracle nothing ever happens.

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  295. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “We believe that the Jewish people have a right to live in their ancient land of Israel, and that the modern State of Israel is the fulfillment of this historic right.

    We maintain that there is no excuse for acts of terrorism against Israel and that Israel has the same right as every other nation to defend her citizens from such violent attacks.

    We pledge to stand with our brothers and sisters in Israel and to speak out on their behalf whenever and wherever necessary until the attacks stop and they are finally living in peace and security with their neighbors.”

    JOIN 1.6 MILLION CHRISTIANS IN STANDING WITH ISRAEL

    CHRISTIAN UNITED FOR ISRAEL: http://www.cufi.org/site/PageServer

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  296. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    SPC, More incoherent Glossolalia.

    How about you lot just stop the wars ?

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  297. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    Identifying the New Anti-Semitism: Israel and the Jewish people have been singled out for discriminatory treatment in the international arena — and worst of all — singled out for destruction.

    “What we are witnessing today — which has been developing incrementally, almost imperceptibly, and sometimes indulgently, for some 30 years now — is a new, virulent, globalizing and even lethal anti-Jewishness reminiscent of the atmospherics of the 1930s, and without parallel or precedent since the end of the Second World War. This new anti-Jewishness overlaps with classical anti-Semitism, but is distinguishable from it. Anchored in the “Zionism is Racism” resolution, but going beyond it, the new anti-Jewishness almost requires a new vocabulary to define it.

    It can best be defined as the discrimination against, denial of, or assault upon, national particularity and peoplehood anywhere, whenever that national particularity and peoplehood happens to be Jewish. In its more benign form (if it can be called benign), it finds particular expression in the singling out of Israel and the Jewish people for differential and discriminatory treatment in the international arena — where United Nations human rights bodies are used as the mask or protective cover for this anti-Jewishness (e.g. The 2001 World Conference Against Racism in Durban).

    In its most lethal form, it refers to the singling out of Israel and the Jewish people for existential or genocidal assault, as evidenced by the suicide-bombers — or what I prefer to call genocide-bombers — since their own acknowledged and asserted intent is the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews wherever they may be — the convergence of both politicide and genocide.

    In a word, classical or traditional anti-Semitism is the discrimination against, or denial of, the right of Jews to live as equal members of a free society; the new anti-Semitism – incompletely, or incorrectly, as “anti-Zionism” (since not all critiques of Zionism are anti-Semitic) — involves the discrimination against, denial of, or assault upon the right of the Jewish people to live as an equal member of the family of nations. What is intrinsic to each form of anti-Semitism — and common to both — is discrimination. All that has happened is that it has moved from discrimination against Jews as individuals — a classical anti-Semitism for which there are indices of measurement (e.g., discrimination against Jews in education, housing, or employment) — to discrimination against Jews as people — a new anti-Semitism.”

    http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892472.html

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  298. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “We believe that the Jewish people have a right to live in their ancient land”

    Do other people have the right to live in their ancient land ?

    BTW, the Jews came from AFRICA just like the rest of us. But the Jews say god made us all in the same place. The same place as the Jews in fact. How about the Maoris claiming Taiwan, or at least NZ ?

    Got yourself in a bit of a pickle there sunshine haven’t you ? :)

    If the Jew does not like it in Israel he can go back home to Europe where he came from. The real people of the area do not have that choice.

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  299. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, it would be simpler to just provide Israel with a NATO security alliance, on condition they withdraw from the territory occupied in 1967 and shared Jerusalem with Palestine.

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  300. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    Anti-Semitic Violence, Neo-Nazis and the Anti-Israel Left:

    “When the culture of hate toward Israel on the left has become almost indistinguishable from Neo-Nazis, and when violent bigots feast on hateful propaganda put out by progressive non-profits, the left must either conduct a moral reckoning and clean its house, or accept that when it comes to Jews, it is on the same page as a murderer who signed the post in which he linked to Max Blumenthal, “Sieg Heil.””

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/anti-semitic-violence-neo-nazis-and-the-anti-israel-left/

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  301. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea, is your goal, an attack on religious support in the West for Israel so Arabs can then destroy the state.

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  302. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    Newt Gingrich Tells the Truth About the Palestinian Non-Entity:

    “One of the most incorrigible fallacies pertaining to the Middle East is the notion that the Palestinians are entitled to a state of their own. This fallacy stems from the misconception that there is a nation of ‘Palestinians’, and to the extent that such a nation exists, this name is an accurate representation of the Arabs who live in modern Israel. This artful manipulation of the geopolitical lexicon was meant to bestow upon a group of random Arabs a false sense of geographical ties to the Holy Land.

    In 1977, during an interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw, PLO Executive Committee member Zuheir Mohsen described the stratagem as this:

    “The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.”

    This delusion is no trivial matter. For years, the left wing foreign policy establishment has rapturously promoted the ‘Palestinians’ as the cause célèbre of our national security interests. Instead of focusing on the real threats to our national security (such as those who, incidentally, fund the so-called Palestinians), the foreign policy establishment has singularly focused on creating a state for the most virulently anti-American people on the face of the planet. Their maniacal fixation on the Palestinians has left them devoid of solutions regarding the broader turmoil in the Middle East.

    The first step in undoing this foreign policy mess is for the next president to deracinate the entire myth of a ‘Palestinian people’. Kudos to Newt Gingrich for finally telling the truth about the geopolitical cause célèbre of all the world’s imbeciles.”

    http://www.redstate.com/diary/dhorowitz3/2011/12/10/newt-gingrich-tells-the-truth-about-the-palestinian-non-entity/

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  303. All_on_Red (1,647 comments) says:

    Either that or wanting the Arabs to try so Israel nukes them back to the Stone Age …

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  304. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, the Nazi persecuted people on race and religion. Just as you do Arabs and Muslims.

    The Nazi wanted a monocultural state for the supremacist master race. Jews have actually got one !

    But Israel needs a host to feed on. It has bleed the US dry for years. Trillions in aid and trillions more killing anyone who does not worship Jews suitably. When the host dies so will the parasites. It has already begun. Sorry about that :)

    Good news though ! They can simply return home to Russia, Europe, the USA and all the places they really came from if they want. Jews, Muslims and others have lived in the region for thousands of years together. They can continue to do so, minus the whole Master Race thing. So all is not lost.

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  305. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, the 1977 interview with Zuheir Mohsen mentions Palestine/anti-Zionism as a device for Arab unity – is that because it is the only thing that does unite them? Because there is no unity within the Arab world?

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  306. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea, is there any Arab nation where Christians are not being persecuted? One would imagine that in the modern world the lack of safety and the guarantees of secure liberty provided by a liberal democracy would mean the ME would now be too backward to retain many Jews, if Israel did not exist.

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  307. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    What claim have Jews got to exclusive occupation of Israel ?

    1. Religious fables they wrote themselves !

    2. Some died in a war that killed 70 million in EUROPE, so they can have some ARAB land ! LOL :)

    What utter nonsense. Of course Jews can live there. But so can Muslims, Hindus and the original people like zoroastrians. They have no right to have exclusive domain. The idea a born and bred Russian can have more right to live there than a person whos family have lived there for generations is absurd.

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  308. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Newt Gingrich Tells the Truth About the Palestinian Non-Entity:

    The Zionist “truth”, that is.

    This artful manipulation of the geopolitical lexicon was meant to bestow upon a group of random Arabs a false sense of geographical ties to the Holy Land.

    After years of research, Misinai says that he can declare with certainty that nearly 90 percent of all Palestinians are descended from the Jews. “And what’s more, about half of them know it,” he says. Not only that, many Palestinians retain Jewish customs, including mourning rituals, lighting Shabbat or memorial candles and even wearing tefillin.

    http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Features/The-lost-Palestinian-Jews

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  309. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “Kea, is there any Arab nation where Christians are not being persecuted? ”

    Like Christians are being persecuted in Israel ? Not sure, but I have not heard of Arabs spitting on Christian clergy or beating up a 70 year old lady in her home because they “suspected” she was Christian.

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  310. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “Kea, is your goal, an attack on religious support in the West for Israel so Arabs can then destroy the state.”

    LOL :)

    Please tell us more god boy. I love conspiracy theories.

    Actually I just want the war and killing to stop along with religious persecution. A hint was me actually saying that repeatedly time and time again. Along with saying I oppose ALL religion as a harmful cancer of the mind.

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  311. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    Apparently Shawn really did get his theology degree in the mail, probably from the Philippines, for $9.95; because the person who founded the cufi site he linked to above, John Hagee, preaches a false zionist anti-Christ gospel to Jews and Christians. I mean google him yourself, if you doubt this.

    plus he makes satanic signals.

    or maybe that’s a coincidence. Or maybe not.

    Now I of course aren’t mental, like Shawn is. Unlike Shawn, my logic is sound, so just because Shawn’s apparently linked to a site founded by someone who loves Satan, this DOES NOT MEAN that Shawn is a satanist. Of course if I’d done that then naturally Shawn’s logic would mean, naturally, that I’m a satanist. But remember, I’m NOT Shawn and I use proper logic, not Shawn’s logic, so all this means is, Shawn’s gone completely mental in trying so hard to prove his point he’s lost all reason whatsoever. Possibly he’s even pooed his pants, but I’m only speculating there.

    Luckily he won’t be offended because he won’t be reading this.

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  312. SGA (1,143 comments) says:

    SPC at 9:42 pm

    … is that because it is the only thing that does unite them? Because there is no unity within the Arab world?

    Why should there be? The “unity” of modern europe is very new, isn’t it? And at the expense of many, many wars, two in just the last century that cost millions and millions of lives. How fragile that unity, I wonder.

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  313. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    DEBUNKING ANTI-ISRAELI MYTHS

    MYTH: “The Jews have no claim to the land they call Israel.”

    FACT: A common misperception is that all the Jews were forced into the Diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. and then, 1,800 years later, the Jews suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years.

    The Jewish people base their claim to the Land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 2) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people; 3) the territory was captured in defensive wars and 4) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham.

    Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the Land of Israel continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. The Crusaders massacred many Jews during the 12th century, but the community rebounded in the next two centuries as large numbers of rabbis and Jewish pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee. Prominent rabbis established communities in Safed, Jerusalem and elsewhere during the next 300 years.

    By the early 19th century—years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement—more than 10,000 Jews lived throughout what is today Israel.1 The 78 years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State.

    Israel’s international “birth certificate” was validated by the promise of the Bible; uninterrupted Jewish settlement from the time of Joshua onward; the Balfour Declaration of 1917; the League of Nations Mandate, which incorporated the Balfour Declaration; the United Nations partition resolution of 1947; Israel’s admission to the UN in 1949; the recognition of Israel by most other states; and, most of all, the society created by Israel’s people in decades of thriving, dynamic national existence.

    MYTH: “Palestine was always an Arab country.”

    FACT: The term “Palestine” is believed to be derived from the Philistines, an Aegean people who, in the 12th Century B.C.E., settled along the Mediterranean coastal plain of what are now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the second century C.E., after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palaestina to Judea (the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word Filastin is derived from this Latin name. 3

    Map of British Mandate

    The Hebrews entered the Land of Israel about 1300 B.C.E., living under a tribal confederation until being united under the first monarch, King Saul. The second king, David, established Jerusalem as the capital around 1000 B.C.E. David’s son, Solomon, built the Temple soon thereafter and consolidated the military, administrative and religious functions of the kingdom. The nation was divided under Solomon’s son, with the northern kingdom (Israel) lasting until 722 B.C.E., when the Assyrians destroyed it, and the southern kingdom (Judah) surviving until the Babylonian conquest in 586 B.C.E. The Jewish people enjoyed brief periods of sovereignty afterward until most Jews were finally driven from their homeland in 135 C.E.

    Jewish independence in the Land of Israel lasted for more than 400 years. This is much longer than Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States. 4 In fact, if not for foreign conquerors, Israel would be more than 3,000 years old today.

    Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most of the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine. When the distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: “There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in history, absolutely not.”5

    Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:

    We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds. 6

    In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: “There is no such country as Palestine! ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria.” 7 The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations echoed this view in a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947, which said Palestine was part of the Province of Syria and the Arabs of Palestine did not comprise a separate political entity. A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: “It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria.” 8

    Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War.

    MYTH: “Arabs in Palestine suffered because of Jewish settlement.”

    FACT: For many centuries, Palestine was a sparsely populated, poorly cultivated and widely-neglected expanse of eroded hills, sandy deserts and malarial marshes. As late as 1880, the American consul in Jerusalem reported the area was continuing its historic decline. “The population and wealth of Palestine has not increased during the last forty years,” he said. 12

    The Report of the Palestine Royal Commission quotes an account of the Maritime Plain in 1913:

    The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track suitable for transport by camels and carts . . . ​no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached [the Jewish village of] Yabna [Yavne]. . . . Houses were all of mud. No windows were anywhere to be seen. . . . The ploughs used were of wood. . . . The yields were very poor. . . . The sanitary conditions in the village were horrible. Schools did not exist. . . . The western part, towards the sea, was almost a desert. . . . The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many ruins of villages were scattered over the area, as owing to the prevalence of malaria, many villages were deserted by their inhabitants. 13

    Surprisingly, many people who were not sympathetic to the Zionist cause believed the Jews would improve the condition of Palestinian Arabs. For example, Dawood Barakat, editor of the Egyptian paper Al-Ahram, wrote: “It is absolutely necessary that an entente be made between the Zionists and Arabs, because the war of words can only do evil. The Zionists are necessary for the country: The money which they will bring, their knowledge and intelligence, and the industriousness which characterizes them will contribute without doubt to the regeneration of the country.” 14

    Even a leading Arab nationalist believed the return of the Jews to their homeland would help resuscitate the country. According to Sherif Hussein, the guardian of the Islamic Holy Places in Arabia:

    The resources of the country are still virgin soil and will be developed by the Jewish immigrants. One of the most amazing things until recent times was that the Palestinian used to leave his country, wandering over the high seas in every direction. His native soil could not retain a hold on him, though his ancestors had lived on it for 1000 years. At the same time we have seen the Jews from foreign countries streaming to Palestine from Russia, Germany, Austria, Spain, America. The cause of causes could not escape those who had a gift of deeper insight. They knew that the country was for its original sons (abna’ihi-l-asliyin), for all their differences, a sacred and beloved homeland. The return of these exiles (jaliya) to their homeland will prove materially and spiritually [to be] an experimental school for their brethren who are with them in the fields, factories, trades and in all things connected with toil and labor. 15

    As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFroots.html

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  314. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    SGA, it is not so much, the why should there be unity, as there being those who cite the Palestinian cause as the means to unity. Thus one Palestinian posed himself as less than a nationalist freedom fighter and more as someone working in a cause that all Arabs should support.

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  315. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Reid, any figure posed as coming to the earth to rule and reign over humanity to fulfil bible prophecy is a false Christ. People who fight over which false Christ of the end time is the “real one”, should do some remedial reading classes.

    Deists reign, theists misread the bible.

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  316. Left Right and Centre (2,997 comments) says:

    Kea – do you think the 9:58pm post qualifies as ‘Gish Gallop’ ?

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  317. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Kea, so you cannot name an Arab nation where Christians are not persecuted.

    As you say, Jews have to maintain higher standards than others if they are not to be singled out for criticism for their treatment of religious minorities.

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  318. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    Reid, any figure posed as coming to the earth to rule and reign over humanity to fulfil bible prophecy is a false Christ. People who fight over which false Christ of the end time is the “real one”, should do some remedial reading classes.

    SPC, can you please explicate, I’m not sure what you’re saying.

    See, Hagee denies Christ was the messiah. I’m guessing that he does that because he doesn’t want the Jews to feel bad about killing him. I don’t agree with any of that, as no Christian would, I’m very sure Shawn wouldn’t either. But of course Shawn would pretend that’s precisely what I believed if I’d been unfortunate enough to link to a site that Hagee founded. But I don’t bear false witness. That’s part of my faith.

    If you don’t believe Hagee denies Christ is and was the messiah, then here’s some excerpts from his book. Don’t worry about the warning that appears, the video plays.

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  319. Left Right and Centre (2,997 comments) says:

    Kea – if you were not labelled a troll on KB – would you take that as a hint that you need to lift your game ? Is being called a troll a mark of intellectual distinction ? I don’t see too many others called trolls – is it like being told one sits in the B+ and higher range ?

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  320. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Speaking of things poverty and food stamps kea ,Russia has one of the lowest minimum living wages (23rd out of 27) in Europe that is below the poverty line,

    http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131122/184873012/Russian-Parliament-Leaves-Minimum-Wage-Below-Poverty-Line.html

    You can rant and grunt on about ultra Orthodox Jews in Israel but fortunately, naturally, they don’t reflect official government policy. The place would be impossible to govern like here with Shias and Sunnis at each other’s throats that you pretend doesn’t exist or lets blame the Jews

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10789765/Syrias-bloodshed-spills-into-Iraq-as-al-Qaeda-bombs-Shia-militant-rally.html

    http://www.gloria-center.org/2013/04/the-main-battle-in-the-middle-east-is-among-muslims-sunni-vs-shia-arabs-vs-persians/

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  321. CharlieBrown (1,027 comments) says:

    Far out dunne is a hypocritical c*nt – sitting there drinking his chardonnay whilst he bans other forms of getting high. Hes happy to drive the problem he made worse out of sight to the black market. I don’t remember seeing any of these problems with BZP.

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  322. Reid (16,634 comments) says:

    Far out dunne is a hypocritical c*nt – sitting there drinking his chardonnay whilst he bans other forms of getting high.

    What I don’t get is if they can do it now then why did they have to munt around with the testing regime before they did this?

    It’s not as if Dunne has ever said he wanted them, he has always said the technical difficulty in definition meant it was simply impossible, period so we had, reluctantly, to live with this halfway less-than-ideal house. But now it seems they’ve come up with something else, so what pray tell have they just thought of that they didn’t think of before?

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  323. Left Right and Centre (2,997 comments) says:

    Ask Rick Sanchez, Norman Finkelstein or Helen Thomas what happens to journalists or academics who don’t tow the line.

    Tom is a lot smarter than me. But I know it’s ‘toe the line’. Designed to catch people out that one.

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  324. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Reid, it does not matter how and why they seek to justify their end time false Christ/Messiah figure to come and rule and reign from Zion. The bible is clear on it, if a person was a man of God he would claim Zion was where God is King, not any man. And no it does not say that those who believe in a man being God can expect him to return to fulfil expectations of a Messiah ruling in/from a place on earth. Those who pose a spirituality to their faith are supposed to understand it on another plane.

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  325. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Left, Right and Center, I prefer tow, if they keep towing the net then the public will be gathered like fish then slaughtered like sheep (collected votes on poll day).

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  326. Left Right and Centre (2,997 comments) says:

    You can tow the line if you want SPC – hey – it’s a free universe. Well – our part of the universe is sort of free.

    The ongoing KB Reid-Shawn mismatch. I’m picturing Darth Vader using ‘force choke’ on Admiral Motti in the original. Seriously – it’s at least that level of OMFG

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  327. Left Right and Centre (2,997 comments) says:

    Religion and climate issue = KB smalltalk. It’s KB for howdy doody.

    What the fuck did I learn from KB today ? I really couldn’t get into Jews and Muslims and religious nonsense. It might as well be a LOTR fansite FFS.

    Millions of years of evolution from hominid to modern humans. Religion is a relatively new and short-lived idea so far.

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  328. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Reid, the F35’s seem very expensive, but the trillion dollar cost is for 2500 planes, the article you linked to mentions the number of that going to the navy (dropping from 69 to 36 so the navy can still afford ships with that order), not the total.

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  329. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Does anyone regard the Palestinians “right of return” as a natural right?

    Or regard the Israelis “law of return” as a “natural law”?

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  330. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    A Natural Right is something that is universal and cannot be removed or given away or sold to another

    According to Black’s:
    Natural rights. Those which grow out of nature of man and depend upon his personality and are distinguished from those which are created by positive laws enacted by a duly constituted government to create an orderly civilized society.

    Natural rights are also called inalienable rights, which are rights which cannot be removed with out the consent of the person. The personality here involves the Creator of the man, not the state, and the dictionary definitions suggest that a man can be alienated from his natural rights if he intentionally voids his relationship with his creator.

    Does anyone regard the Palestinians “right of return” as a natural right?

    The right of return exists because of the Abrahamic covenant rather than any natural right. The covenant only applies to the descendants of Abraham, and is not conditional on religion or culture, i.e. Muslims descended from Abraham have the right of return as well as people of Jewish lineage.

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  331. questions (208 comments) says:

    So, Mugabe at the canonization ceremony, anyone ok with that?

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  332. thedavincimode (6,877 comments) says:

    kowtow & lucy

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  333. wikiriwhis business (4,130 comments) says:

    Tent family ‘have themselves to blame’

    This has gone political. Labour is not going to let a family live in a tent during a political year.

    Dad’s timing was perfect to hit the media. Not saying anything but yeah well…..

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  334. wikiriwhis business (4,130 comments) says:

    “What if I had donated $1000 to Cunliffe’s campaign? That would generate news and attention. But imagine if I said I did so because Cunliffe is European and I want to encourage European leadership.”

    Whites have been running the country since 1840 rascally as. They don’t need encouragement. They signed a treaty then went to war to grab land anyway. They definitely don’t need encouragement.

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  335. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, if the rights are natural, as per the nature of man, how can they be voided by lack of relationship with a Creator? To be natural they cannot be premised on any continuing contractual relationship, especially when one party does not make/has not made its existence open to scrutiny – thus leaves it dependent on an initiation and continuance based on faith.

    Faith, no less than government is a new regime (something more than nature of man/natural law). If one poses that it is in the nature of man to have faith, it could also be said that there is also something in the nature of man to be part of community and construct government.

    The existence of the Abrahamic covenant does not mean it was/is between God and Abraham/Abrahams descendants. Clearly there is effectively an oath/word before God (on behalf of the people) to be God’s people – something they saw as necessitating the people being in their own homeland separate from others. I agree, as this oath is placed at a time before the law was given, that it does not prescribe any particular religion or culture or law. Of course people now identify by their religious identity, and can easily conclude that they can be part of God’s people through their religion wherever they live. It is the more secular or deist descendant of Abraham who would see their homeland nationality, as per the covenant, as instructive. Thus modern Zionism, albeit tempered by the divergent identity of the non Jewish descendants of Abraham and religious Zionists seeking to take over the state of Israel to make it a vehicle of their own (they do this as they see the secular world as something to separate from, but as the state of Israel is also a home to secular Jews this thinking is flawed).

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  336. UglyTruth (4,552 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, if the rights are natural, as per the nature of man, how can they be voided by lack of relationship with a Creator?

    Because in general for every right there is a correlative duty. In theory when a man consciously abandons those correlative duties then he has alienated the Creator and consequently his natural rights become void.

    The definiton from Black’s uses the phrase: “and depend upon his personality”, i.e it is with man’s power to make the rights void.

    The existence of the Abrahamic covenant does not mean it was/is between God and Abraham/Abrahams descendants.

    Yes, his descendants were the beneficiaries rather than the parties to the covenant.

    … something they saw as necessitating the people being in their own homeland separate from others.

    Inheritance of land doesn’t imply any duty to live there.

    Of course people now identify by their religious identity, and can easily conclude that they can be part of God’s people through their religion wherever they live.

    Yes, although covenant of the land and the Mosaic covenant are two separate things.

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  337. wiseowl (934 comments) says:

    And now Dunne is on with the live guy again waving his arms around and making out he has been doing so much work on this legal high stuff.What an arrogant sod.

    Please Ohariu people ,get rid of this guy this year.

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