General Debate 28 April 2014

April 28th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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248 Responses to “General Debate 28 April 2014”

  1. stigie (1,439 comments) says:

    Is this the week where we see Liarbore below 28% in the Roy Morgan poll ?

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  2. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    a couple of polls putting them at 24-25% would not surprise me.

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  3. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    Ross Bell from the Drug Foundation says politicians are playing silly buggers.

    An emergency law banning legal highs will lead to binge-buying, fire sales, a boosted black market and addicts withdrawing without support, warns the New Zealand Drug Foundation.

    Foundation boss Ross Bell said the political parties were “playing silly buggers” with the issue because they had all agreed to stagger the implementation of the Psychoactive Substances Act, introduced in July last year, meaning a testing regime had still not been developed.

    And he points out that the Psychoactive Substances Regulatory Authority that “may, at any time, by notice in the Gazette, revoke an approval of a psychoactive product granted under section 37 if the Authority considers on reasonable grounds that the product poses more than a low risk of harm to individuals using the product.”

    Politicians playing silly buggers on drugs? Seems like it.

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  4. Left Right and Centre (3,007 comments) says:

    Americans are too funny….

    Watch enough Choice TV house renovation programmes and you will hear ‘re-purpose’ used constantly.

    I couldn’t work it out for ages – WTF are you talking about repurposing Willis ? You don’t really pay too much attention to TV anyway, do ya ? Shows you how thick I am. ‘Repurposing’ = recycled. Ooooooooh . . .

    But you can’t say you took some old disgarded shit and used it in your fireplace – hell no – it was ‘re-purposed’. As soon as I swapped in recycle every time it was uttered – order was restored in my easily confused mind.

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  5. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    LRC,

    Most house renovation programs on Choice are from Canada.

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  6. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    The 12 reasons why NZ’s economic bubble will end in disaster:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2014/04/17/12-reasons-why-new-zealands-economic-bubble-will-end-in-disaster/

    When historians look over recent history they will proclaim with wonder how so many could be fooled by so few for so long that the 5th National Government were proclaimed as careful economic managers. The size of our debt they are passing onto future generations is truly shocking. Even more shocking is that some still think they are “right-wing”.

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  7. tvb (4,553 comments) says:

    Parliament could be recalled this week to deal with these drugs. There is no need to wait until 8 May. I assume Cabinet will discuss this option today.

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  8. Left Right and Centre (3,007 comments) says:

    Shawn – I think it was the one where the contractor (their lingo of course) stalks people at a big hardware shop and follows them home.

    Too funny – the couple – married three years – described as ‘newlyweds’ twice at least. They were middleaged too. No. Serial monogamists maybe ? After how long does a married couple no longer qualify as ‘newlywed’ ? How long would it take for the hero to stop describing them as newlywed ? Five years ?

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  9. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

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  10. Neil (577 comments) says:

    Great to see Clutha-Southland nominate 24 year old Todd Barclay as their candidate to replace Bill English as likely constituency member.
    Gore High School educated Barclay has a good academic record and political background.
    Delegates were as usual a cross section of ages,gender,vocations and interests.

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  11. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    Politicians playing silly buggers?

    I’d like to think they’re responding to the concerns of their constituents,isn’t that what we have them for,to represent us?

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  12. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    The Government, in banning legal highs (for the time being) has done what the public has asked for – presuming it to be the majority that want this. I congratulate them for listening – however, I fear they have given a knee jerk reaction, without a great deal of thought, and no doubt received advice from only one or two sectors.

    We all want what is best for our young and impressionable generations, however, as has been pointed out by some, the banning will result in young people going to ‘dealers’, and end up being exposed to even more harmful drugs.

    I am not sure what the answer is, especially for a quick solve option, but I do know that we need to address at some stage and the sooner the better – why so many Kiwis feel the need to ‘self medicate’ with both legal/illegal highs, and alcohol.

    Are we incapable of having fun when sober, or have we just forgotten how? We need to find the answer to that, and show our young people that being high/drunk isn’t the only entertainment choice they have.

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  13. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ kowtow (6,760 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 8:43 am

    I agree, the government has just responded to what the ‘people’ have asked for. To not respond would mean they are not doing their job. I am not completely convinced their response is the right one – but at least they aren’t sitting around drinking chardonnay and ignoring us.

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  14. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    National have selected a 24 year old “public relations consultant” to contest the Clutha Southland seat.

    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8835994/national-selects-24-year-old-for-clutha

    Words fail me

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  15. Odakyu-sen (851 comments) says:

    “The 12 reasons why NZ’s economic bubble will end in disaster:”

    But, but, but…the housing thingy (can’t say “bubble”), it’s just too big to fail…

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  16. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Judith, yes because prohibition has always worked so well, in the minds of the huddled masses. The fact is it does not work. You are mistaken to believe it is a “Kiwi” thing. Every society through out history has had its drugs in one form or another. It is a very human thing to do.

    I don’t know why, that is just an observation.

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  17. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Odakyu-sen, I find it absurd that people think overpriced houses are a good thing and show a positive economic trend. Over priced housing has bankrupted the biggest economy on earth and caused a global crisis.

    People can not think clearly on this issue due to greed and self interest.

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  18. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kea (10,625 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 8:48 am

    Good Morning Kea,

    Yes, I realise other countries have similar problems, however, my concern at this stage is primarily for New Zealand. – that I can influence (even if it is with just one vote). The rest of the world I’ll save later ;-)

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  19. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    EAD,the 12 reasons why N Z’s economic bubble will end in disaster .?
    I’d like to here from you , your 12 solutions.?

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  20. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    It takes a special kind of economist to tell a story that a rise in the cost of living (inflating house prices) is good for an economy.

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  21. Left Right and Centre (3,007 comments) says:

    (1) Len’s taken a lot of Aucklanders for a ride. On their new trainset sample. Those seats look to have mighty generous dimensions. Did the Spanish factory brass see pictures of actual fattened up New Zealanders during the design phase ? You wouldn’t want Metiria Turei and Moira Coatsworth on either side of you. It would look like this: OIO. Shane Jones’ neck flab would need its own seat.

    (2) ‘Essential Mums’ – editor’s picks . . .

    The case for separate beds
    Why even happily married people cheat
    Women want as much sex as men
    Growing call for condoms for the women
    Headaches 101: What you need to know
    Work-life balance: Stop leaning in
    Motherhood changes you – and that’s ok
    ‘Confessions of a mediocre widow’
    Your sex life and your crying baby
    Tame your housework
    What to wear when you are pregnant
    11 ways to flatter your tummy
    Is gender equality ruining your sex life?
    How much exercise do you really need?
    Stop looking at my chest
    Are you happier with kids?

    hahahaha – holy shit – seriously – are you happier with kids ? No – I fucking hate the little bastards – worst thing I ever did. Is this shit for real or what ? Who reads this frickin dumbarse bulldust ? Oh yeah – there’s no ‘Essential Dads’ bollocks. Sexist !!

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  22. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “New Zealand manufacturing sales volumes rose in the fourth quarter last year, driven by dairy and meat and adding to evidence of strong, export-led demand for the nation’s soft commodities.

    Sales volumes climbed 5.7 per cent, seasonally adjusted, the biggest gain since the first quarter of 1995 when petroleum and coal manufacturing was added to the series, according to Statistics New Zealand. Excluding dairy and meat, sales rose 0.9 per cent.

    Meat and dairy manufacturing volumes rose 15 per cent in the fourth quarter, the biggest increase since March 2009. That comes after government figures last week showed New Zealand’s terms of trade rose to a 40-year high in the fourth quarter, edging closer to an all-time high reached in the June quarter of 1973. The nation recorded a record trade surplus for January, driven by sales of dairy products to China.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11217087

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  23. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    the government has just responded to what the ‘people’ have asked for.

    They have responded to what some people have asked for. And other people have asked them not to do.

    It may well have popular support, but I dispute Cunliffe’s claim of “all New Zealanders”.

    But we elect MPs to look beyond populist election year decisions and think things through properly and use expert advice and evidence.

    Unfortunately this looks more like a rush to join the ban bandwagon. I hope they have good plans in place to deal with all the addicts falling off the wagon and getting trampled by all the political hooves.

    And when Campbell Live shows the resulting mess next month what then?

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  24. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    “a couple of polls putting them at 24-25% would not surprise me.”

    that will probably be a bad thing for national.. cause they will no doubt jump a couple of points and the media narrative will be – labour building to election! john key worried as labour reverse the trend! etc etc etc

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  25. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    “The size of our debt they are passing onto future generations is truly shocking.”

    fuck em! – im pretty sure thats the thinking. let that generation make the hard calls.

    we should be able to do that as individuals. borrow a shit ton of cash and say “grandkids will pay it off”. then when they are born they owe the bank 500k or so that needs to be worked off.

    same shit. just on an individual scale.

    oh, we also say – you cant dig shit out of the ground to pay off the debt! that shit needs to stay in the ground for “future generations”

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  26. dirty harry (525 comments) says:

    bugger…thought we mite of had a shawn free day…

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  27. wf (482 comments) says:

    . . . . . It takes a special kind of economist to tell a story that the rise in the cost of living (inflating house prices) is good for an economy.

    Is there someone who is so saying?

    The sooner they get those pre-fabs up the better. And cut immigration from ALL sources. And NZers who have been away for all their working lives so far, can join the waiting list.

    How about that?

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  28. iMP (2,455 comments) says:

    Todd Barclay…a good academic record and political background…

    At 24?? Y’mean he’s mates with Bill, Gerry and Hekia and comes from Dipton.

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  29. Reid (16,683 comments) says:

    no doubt received advice from only one or two sectors

    Only one sector I’m picking Judith. The polling industry. I think they’re simply clearing the decks of anything their internal polls have shown up as being potentially contentious vote-losers because they could have taken this move at anytime: why now?

    Another thing is: given Dunne’s son is the legal rep for some of the industry players, how willing is he going to be to criticise his own Dad in the court of public opinion? It’s just there’s fertile ground for such criticism on various PR grounds which would appeal particularly to the internet generation and Dunne Jnr, being steeped in politics from a young age, would no doubt know at least some of those grounds. So if it doesn’t happen, is that because Dunne Jnr is inexperienced or for some other reason?

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  30. iMP (2,455 comments) says:

    Peter Dunne (legal highs) flip flopping so rapidly he could be a generator on the electricity grid with a massive positive credit.

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  31. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Judith, the war on drugs has been a disaster. That is not a statement about drug use nor does it minimise the harm done by drugs. It is a simple fact. It has been a hugely expensive and ineffective waste of time.

    The motivation for continuing it appears to come form a fuzzy headed notion that we must “do something”. Even if that something is damaging and ineffective.

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  32. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    @ Stephie,

    The cause of the 2008 GFC was too much debt and how have governments around the world responded – by taking on even more debt! It’s Alice through the looking glass ponzi-nomics!

    The way I would solve it would be a complete reformation of the monetary system – the root cause of the problem is that our monetary system is debt-based & fractionally reserved meaning that 97% of our money is created as a debt by private banks. To have money, we must go into debt and to pay interest on that debt we have to create even more debt elsewhere in the system to pay the interest as only the principle is created. If all the debt was repaid – we would have no money. Shocking as that sounds, that is the ugly truth of our monetary system.

    Below are a few words lifted straight from an article by James Delingpole about booms, busts and our monetary system.

    “In reality, economics is not the fiscal rocket-science you make it sound. Capitalism itself is based on good old-fashioned honesty. The money at the heart of it must be both an honest store-of-value and an efficient medium of exchange. It ceases to be so when the inherent deceits of fractional reserve banking allow trillions of false credit to be pumped into the system, thus forcing up prices (booms) which inevitably lead to over-valued commodities (busts).

    What happens next is that the banks, having privatised their gains in the good times, simply socialise their losses onto the tax-payer. It’s a crime. Simple as that really”

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100171475/red-pill-blue-pill/

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  33. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Pete George (21,843 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 9:04 am

    Yes, I’m aware it is only some of the people, which is why I put ‘people’. The old squeaky wheel syndrome works well!

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  34. dirty harry (525 comments) says:

    imp@915am

    LMFAO !

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  35. Neil (577 comments) says:

    I have no time for legal highs etc. However banning them is not the answer.
    As happened during prohibition here in NZ and the USA we saw organized crime get into the action. That will happen with this measure.
    People are always looking for that one shot that solves all the crime – that never seems to work. A long hard process of education,pricing and technical research would be far better than the bans. Driving things underground is not the way to go!!!!

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  36. minus (229 comments) says:

    Dunne will introduce the legislation to Parliament under urgency on May 8. “It had been my intention to hold the announcement to much nearer the time to prevent panic-buying and stockpiling.”
    He admitted his decision to bring the announcement forward was a political one, sparked by Labour’s planned announcement.
    “The consequence is going to be there will be a period now of binge-buying over the next couple of weeks and they have to bear the responsibility for that.”

    Dunne, and those advising him, have fucked up here
    They should have avoided the “stock-piling” that will likely occur.

    [And what addict can actually “stock-pile” any temptation, without increased use because “it is there” – so the ban for some will be from a higher point and nastier in consequence, urging greater need for a substitute]

    Dunne could have said “No comment at this stage”, “We are working on our own measures”, or “Labour will talk about it, but we will do it when we are ready” without giving a date for Urgency.
    They may have lost a few brownie points before Labour has to announce some other policy and probably muck that up.

    The new law will take effect as soon as it is given royal assent by the Governor-General, which would happen within a few days of it passing. At that point, all retailers would have to remove the products from shelves.

    What National have lost here could be partly regained by the immediacy, perhaps a taxi trip there and back, to get the Governor’s signature.

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  37. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    “Plans in place to deal with the addicts falling off the wagon…….”

    Come off it. Talk to anyone dealing with the fallout from the full slather sale of this poison and they’ll tell you what a scourge the so called legal high industry is. Police, probation ,mental health.

    This is a new problem ,why legalise it and main stream it. We don’t need it. The drop kicks will still be able to get their cannabis ,so save your false concern.

    Talking of which ,I suspect some campaigning for banning this shit are using it as a Trojan horse to decriminalise cannabis….

    …..they can fuck off too.

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  38. georgebolwing (1,011 comments) says:

    Questions I would like the promoters of the ban on legal highs to answer:

    a) what is the public policy problem this measure is designed to address?

    b) what evidence is there that this is a public policy problem that should be addressed by government action?

    c) what is the evidence base that support the contention that the proposed solution is the best avalaible to the problem?

    I would venture that a thruthfull answer would be:

    a) middle-class fear;

    b) none.

    c) none.

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  39. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    I’d like to think they’re responding to the concerns of their constituents,isn’t that what we have them for,to represent us?

    Katie thinks we need more Nanny State to save us from the drug addled hoardes of prog-heathens. He must think micro managing by the State is what keeps us safe. This type of thinking made North Korea the success it is today.

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  40. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    georgebolwing, but but but…… we must DO SOMETHING !!!!! [GaSp !!] ;)

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  41. wikiriwhis business (4,192 comments) says:

    I probably echo most on this site when I say if addicts want to kill themselves that’s their business and they would be the role models for every would be junkie to learn from.

    Casualties are a lesson and if dopers continue they have no one to blame but themselves.

    All prohibition does is create a black market and marijuana etc is still easily obtained. The gangs are beside themselves.

    Young girls are still going to prostitute themselves for a high. Nothing has changed. snafu.

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  42. Reid (16,683 comments) says:

    People are always looking for that one shot that solves all the crime – that never seems to work.

    I think you’ll find most people are looking to manage the uptake rate. That’s not my concern but I think that’s most peoples. My concern is the crime in particular destroying the revenue base the illegal trade generates and the only thing we haven’t yet tried to manage that particular issue, is the decriminalisation route. The main argument against that is the uptake rate but if you have a look at Portugal’s now ten-year old experiment, you’ll find that uptake hasn’t increased there and why should we be any different?

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  43. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    “This is a new problem”

    Depends on what you call ‘new’. Synthetics have been a growing problem around the world for years. Pushing cannabis users to more addictive synthetics is good for business – for gangs.

    Drug abuse and abuse of people’s lives by pushing drugs is not new, and it’s not going to suddenly be fixed by an election year feel-good reaction to a TV programme.

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  44. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Another morning of left-wing diatribe on Newstalkzb, starting with loaded news, finishing with Woods, airing her pro-Clark ideas, even her pathetic sayings. This medium is a effen disgrace.

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  45. wikiriwhis business (4,192 comments) says:

    Seatbelt call after five killed

    » Five people are dead and one is seriously injured after a horror weekend on South Island roads.

    Safety advocates are calling for greater public awareness of the importance of wearing a seatbelt, as at least two of the victims were unrestrained

    Police believed no-one in the car wore a seatbelt and that the driver had been drinking.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9983403/Seatbelt-call-after-five-killed

    This evidence is not factual. We only have the police word for it. Typical strategy to put seat belt fines up.

    Let’s not forget the Abbot govt has just announced tax payers willed be paying extra to pay off the state deficit. No doubt soon to be seen here.

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  46. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    Pete talks of cannabis users “pushed” to to more addictive synthetics…….

    ……the availability of this rubbish pushes cannabis users to it?

    Cannabis users don’t exercise personal choices?

    Gangs? What have the gangs to do with the synthetics. These are being produced and peddled by “legitimate” business men and retailers.

    By the way ,there’s no such thing as addiction. Just poor choices.

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  47. Keeping Stock (9,373 comments) says:

    Kudos to the NBR for taking the mickey out of David Parker’s “one new big tool” comment on the Nation. But if his “one new big tool” is actually Russel Norman, we should all be very afraid…

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/04/unfortunate-statement-of-year.html

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  48. mikenmild (12,340 comments) says:

    kowtow
    ‘there’s no such thing as addiction’
    Is that your clinical opinion, Dr kowtow?

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  49. Left Right and Centre (3,007 comments) says:

    Todd Barclay…a good academic record and political background…

    At 24?? Y’mean he’s mates with Bill, Gerry and Hekia and comes from Dipton.

    – iMP

    I was watching TV the other day. This girl came out – expert . . . in feng shui.

    When you’re twenty-two you’re not an expert on any-fucking-thing

    – Billy Connolly

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  50. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    Once again the racist President of the USA weighs in on a minor issue,the LA Clippers owners’ private opinions.This has made world headlines, because it’s a race issue.

    Will we get world headlines and a comment from the Racist in Chief on this appalling act of police brutality? Of course not. The victim is white so it doesn’t count.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614386/Tennessee-police-photographed-choking-unresisting-college-student-passes-out.html

    The MSM are cultural marxists ,they hate themselves and the west.We must all be held to account for black slavery.

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  51. OTGO (579 comments) says:

    igm 9.42 I was listening to that left wing crap this morning too. I flicked over to Radio Sport. Won’t be going back to ZB until the school hols are over.

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  52. RightNow (7,014 comments) says:

    Serial litigant Graham McCready has set his sights on Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully and Labour MP Shane Jones, saying a job offer to Jones amounted to bribery.

    McCready has fired a warning shot at both politicians, saying today that activist Penny Bright had referred the allegations to the Serious Fraud Office (SFO), and he would launch a private prosecution against the pair if the SFO did not investigate.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9984611/Serial-litigant-eyes-Jones-McCully

    A match made in heaven. Or the other place?

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  53. doggone7 (846 comments) says:

    OTGO:

    Left wing crap on ZB? Until the school hols are over? I guess Mike Hosking’s on his school holidays then!?

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  54. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Gangs? What have the gangs to do with the synthetics. These are being produced and peddled by “legitimate” business men and retailers.

    By the way ,there’s no such thing as addiction. Just poor choices.

    1. Gangs will welcome the ban. It provides another income stream. Just as other banned substances currently do.

    2. If drugs are not addictive, then it is something in their favour.

    3. Why reference choices while demanding choice be removed ? It seems a contradiction.

    Poor Katie, she is not cut out for all this thinking. :)

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  55. wikiriwhis business (4,192 comments) says:

    South Korean PM quits over ferry disaster response

    South Korean Prime Minister Chung Hong-won announced his resignation today (NZ time) over the government’s poor response to the April 16 ferry disaster, in which it was first announced that everyone had been rescued.

    The Sewol ferry sank on a routine trip south from the port of Incheon to the traditional holiday island of Jeju.

    More than 300 people, most of them students and teachers on a field trip from the Danwon High School on the outskirts of Seoul, have died or are missing and presumed dead.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/9982801/South-Korean-PM-quits-over-ferry-disaster-response

    This honourable response would never happen in NZ. Our govts never apologise for anything let alone resign.

    I remember the aftermath of Cave Creek when the head of Doc offered to resign and Jim Bolger wouldn’t accept that honourable gesture. too much fear of public repercussions on govt leading by example. which of course is never, ever the case. Kiwi’s can’t even get consulate help overseas. Disasters involving Kiwi’s overseas do not merit even counselling for survivors from our govts. Our govt’s are privatisation monsters.

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  56. georgebolwing (1,011 comments) says:

    Kea.

    You might recall Sir Humphrey Appleby’s description of how most public policy’s are actually chosen. It involved three simple steps.

    1. Something must be done.

    2. This idea is somethng.

    3. Therefore, this idea must be implimented.

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  57. Nookin (3,558 comments) says:

    “This evidence is not factual. We only have the police word for it. Typical strategy to put seat belt fines up.”

    I have seen some stupid comments on Kiwi blog but this one takes the cake.

    Do you have any evidence at all to suggest that this driver was wearing a seat belt? You say that it is not factual. What is “factual”? If those attending the scene of the accident observed that the deceased was unrestrained, is that not factual or do you simply take the position that nothing the police say can be correct if there is an income oriented interpretation to the contrary?

    Do you really think that the police are going to prosecute the driver or his estate for failing to wear a seatbelt so that it can collect $200 in fines? Can you point to any empirical evidence at all that shows that the police fabricate reports on an accident for the sole purpose of generating income?

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  58. Tictactoe (32 comments) says:

    How can a bankrupt afford court proceedings, anyways?!

    Maybe Penny Bright is paying for it once the Council gives her the leftovers of the proceeds from selling her house…

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  59. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Police believed no-one in the car wore a seatbelt and that the driver had been drinking.

    So Nanny State law did not keep them safe. Well I never !

    Of course this can be fixed with more Nanny State law. That should fix it.

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  60. Albert_Ross (337 comments) says:

    Legal highs ban – The work of people who think the law is supposed to be a portrait of what the world ought to be like, rather than seeing the law as something which, when brought into contact with reality, might stand some chance of delivering an improved outcome.

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  61. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Albert_Ross, brilliantly worded :)

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  62. OTGO (579 comments) says:

    Yes doggone the main hosts at ZB have all have negotiated to have the school hols off. I’m a channel surfer on both radio and tv so if there is stuff I don’t like it is so easy to change channels or turn it off.

    My theory is that because there is such an ineffective opposition to the current government the MSM has filled that vacuum.

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  63. jcuk (756 comments) says:

    Wiki ….They can increase the fines for not wearing a seatbelt as much as they like … it will not affect me becuase it is a naturaal reaction to getting in a vehicle and I remember when I did a trip from Pictobn to CHCH sitting behind the driver of a bus feeling quite ‘Naked’ without a belt. That was several years ago so today I would be even more so affected.

    ??? … my wife said she would like to visit relations in colorado and try the weed …. I said NO WAY! after I was permitted to overdose on pain killer following an operation some years back I learnt my lesson … funny thing was the doctor in charge was not aware of the side effects of using this drug and it took our MD son calling about my condition to advise him … LOL.

    I managed to quit smoking after around 25 years so I know how hard it is … so even just ‘trying a little bit’ doesn’t appeal now … that is how I started smoking originally … it was an “in” thing back in those days :)

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  64. doggone7 (846 comments) says:

    “Great to see Clutha-Southland nominate 24 year old Todd Barclay as their candidate to replace Bill English as likely constituency member.”

    Todd Barclay is undoubtedly a fine, capable chap. He is the Clutha-Southland National candidate, ergo he is brilliant.

    “…24-year-old former tobacco company lobbyist Todd Barclay. He has already spent time in Parliament working for (Bill) English and cabinet ministers Hekia Parata and Gerry Brownlee. He left Parliament to work in public relations, before taking on a role as Corporate Affairs Manager for tobacco company Philip Morris.”

    If a Labour candidate had the same credentials there would have been a tsunami of criticism and a torrent of comment on here about needing to have had a real job, being a callow youth, being destined to be a trougher, questions about “what the hell would he know?” etc., etc., etc. Cameron Slater would have worn out his keyboard, his fingers would be red raw with the number of posts he’d started in condemnation.

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  65. georgebolwing (1,011 comments) says:

    There is, I understand, evidence that the introduction of seatbelts has done two things:

    a) reduce the severity of injury in accidents (this was intended); but

    b) increased in incidence of accidents (this was not intended).

    The reason b) happened is a), combined with people responding to incentives. If people come to understand that they are less likely to be injured in a crash, then they will do less of the things that will prevent crashes.

    A better approach would have been to provide a stringer incentive to good driving. One solution is that instead of seatbelts, cars should be fitted with a sharp spike in the middle of the steering wheel, connected to the speedo. As th car goes faster, the spike moves closer to the drivers throat. This would make bad driving much more obviously dangerous, thus leading to less bad driving.

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  66. jcuk (756 comments) says:

    As for Kea writing against the seat belt law as ‘Nanny State-ish’ …. confirms my opinion he is an idiot :) same as when I rode a motorbike/scooter I wore a helmet and other protective stuff long before it became the law.

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  67. Lucia Maria (2,651 comments) says:

    Reid,

    Is this a “Matrix Operation” as well? Topless German Feminist Tries to Ruin Christmas Mass With Altar-Jumping Protest

    This is the beginning of my answers to Reid from previous conversations.

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  68. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    jcuk, I wear a seatbelt and a helmet. I just don’t demand my choices be imposed on others by the armed state. That is the point of difference little man.

    ————————————————————————————————————————

    CHOICE

    Choice consists of a mental decision, of judging the merits of multiple options and selecting one or more of them. While a choice can be made between imagined options (“what would I do if …?”), often a choice is made between real options and followed by the corresponding action. For example, a route for a journey is chosen based on the preference of arriving at a given destination as soon as possible. The preferred (and therefore chosen) route is then derived from information about how long each of the possible routes take. This can be done by a route planner. If the preference is more complex, such as involving the scenery of the route, cognition and feeling are more intertwined, and the choice is less easy to delegate to a computer program or assistant.

    More complex examples (often decisions that affect what a person thinks or their core beliefs) include choosing a lifestyle, religious affiliation, or political position.

    Most people regard having choices as a good thing, though a severely limited or artificially restricted choice can lead to discomfort with choosing and possibly, an unsatisfactory outcome. In contrast, a choice with excessively numerous options may lead to confusion, regret of the alternatives not taken, and indifference in an unstructured existence;[1] and the illusion that choosing an object or a course leads necessarily to control of that object or course can cause psychological problems
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice

    choice noun \ˈchȯis\ : the act of choosing : the act of picking or deciding between two or more possibilities

    : the opportunity or power to choose between two or more possibilities : the opportunity or power to make a decision

    : a range of things that can be chosen
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/choice

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  69. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    jcuk……I have little common cause with you ,but kea is more than an idiot.kea is a troll who posts for the sake of argument and attention.

    I dread to think what she did for amusement while banned.

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  70. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    I dread to think

    Obviously Katie.

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  71. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    EAD, your extensive quotation of James Delingpole is interesting .The fellow is an extreme Libertarian and Climate denier .He strongly believes in an unfettered and totally deregulated market.The proposition that capitalism is some how inherently honest is a dubious one to say the least.The recent debt crises and Alan Greenspan’s deregulation of the financial and sub prime sector is adequate testimony to that.Of course, as well, the way numerous bankers and financiers profited hugely out of it is yet another.
    Delingpole courts Conspiracy theories and paranoia as his appearances with that doyen of Conspiracy/ Paranoia Alex Jones demonstratively shows.,

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/James_Delingpole

    In future could you present something rather more rational and coherent instead of your Delingpole babble.Apart from closing
    Public Libraries ( Delinghole advocates this ), what in terms of practical measures would you introduce that the present
    government is not doing.?
    For my part, the present government and it’s strong center right policies has got the mix about right.You.?

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  72. mikenmild (12,340 comments) says:

    What did you do Kea when you couldn’t comment here 24/7? Was it tough going cold turkey?

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  73. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    Jcuk
    The legalised resellers in Colorado and Washington apparently do a roaring trade in Vaporisers, which pretty much negate any smoking risk. You can buy them as small as a large Pen. It’s becoming common for people to use them at places like football games and without causing attention or offence from others.

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  74. Crusader (327 comments) says:

    Graham McCready is considering using the courts of law in an attempt to restrain Shane Jones from taking up a new career. That will go down like a cup of cold sick with Shane. Mind your own F’ing business would be the legitimate reply.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9984611/Serial-litigant-eyes-Jones-McCully

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  75. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    He strongly believes in and unfettered and totally deregulated self-regulating market.

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  76. doggone7 (846 comments) says:

    OTGO

    Your surfing will prove that the msm is not an effective opposition. I know that because I do the same. In the huddle around the PM questions are asked and the bite on the tv news presents only a snide, smarmy put down from our leader about some other party. UnPaid political broadcast. The PM and ministers are now more available on National Radio in the mornings. Election year.

    The msm has it’s own agenda. Being an opposition is not it. I’ve been rubbished on here for suggesting there is feigned interest in the Opposition and having a strong opposition. Only intelligent people think we need a healthy opposition and do something constructive towards that. The strongest will on here is to destroy opposition parties, get rid of them so that we end up with a regime similar to a dictatorship. Do what you want when you want because you know best.

    All very well when you’re the one in the driver’s seat!

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  77. twofish (107 comments) says:

    A man who thought his boss did not like him was surprized to be promoted.
    But the situation only lasted a month before he was in fact fired as he originally expected.
    “Oh, I always disliked you,” said the boss, in explanation “I just wanted to fire you from a higher position”

    Has any addict ever successfully “stock-piled” the substance they are addicted to?

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  78. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    Stephieboy
    “Climate denier”
    Dellingpole is not a climate denier. Stop telling lies and trying to put labels on him to denigrate his argument.
    He just doesn’t believe we will see CATASTROPHIC temperature rises.

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  79. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Milky, I read.

    Did you know it is actually possible to form your own ideas and not simply parrot the narritive of your chosen peer group ?

    Who da thunk ? ;)

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  80. wikiriwhis business (4,192 comments) says:

    30th banker dead in six weeks. Including a Kiwi and a banking legislator from China

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  81. mikenmild (12,340 comments) says:

    Graham McCready has raised an interesting point when he alleges the appointment of Jones would be in breach of the State Sector Act, which requires appointment on merit and notification of vacancies. I am not sure how this has been got around in the case of previous political appointments to the public service. Does anyone know about this?

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  82. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Why are Labour MPs the only ones being interviewed by Newstalkzb talkback? It is disgusting to hear a lying, good-for-nothing Mallard getting air time to distort and mislead listeners trying to get traction for his now dicey seat!

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  83. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    Mikey
    I thought the position was Ambassadorial? They don’t advertise those do they.
    Let’s face it. McCready is a moron and the courts should brand him as a serial litigant and stop him from wasting ur money with this nonsense. Penny Bright too.

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  84. Lucia Maria (2,651 comments) says:

    Russia has banned swearing in public performances

    Russia’s rich tradition of vulgar slang has long been a matter of pride for its authors and poets; Fyodor Dostoevsky once claimed a Russian could express his entire range of feelings with the swearword for the male sexual organ.

    But a new ban on explicit language in public performances means that some of the country’s best known directors, musicians and actors could face fines, and classic works of literature and cinema could be sold in special packaging with a warning sticker.

    The lower house of parliament passed a law last week implementing banning “foul language” in public performances including movie showings, plays and concerts. Audio, video and books containing swearwords are required to be sold in special packaging featuring an explicit language warning.

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  85. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Will we get world headlines and a comment from the Racist in Chief on this appalling act of police brutality?

    Homeless man shot to death by police while ‘illegally camping’ in the foothills of NM
    http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/james-boyd/

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  86. mikenmild (12,340 comments) says:

    All_on_Red
    Yes, it is an ambassadorial post. I’m just wondering how such posts avoid being covered by the State Sector Act. There is a specific exemption for ministerial staff, but not for anyone else. Maybe ambassadors are appointed directly by the Governor-General and are not officially classed as state sector employees.

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  87. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    I assume that the State Sector Act covers civil servants, so is an ambassador a civil servant?

    I’m not sure about that either way.

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  88. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Lucy, you should consider moving to Russia. You have a lot in common with them.

    I did not make it Sunday sorry. I realised I needed to commit some fresh sins for forgiving or it would not be worth it.

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  89. fernglas (197 comments) says:

    Graham McCready seems to have gone too far this time. “…he would launch a private prosecution against (McCully and Jones) if the SFO did not investigate.”

    s237 Crimes Act 1961 defines blackmail as being committed where someone threatens to make an accusation against any person with intent to cause the person to whom the threat is made to act in accordance with the will of the person making the threat.

    The backstop of private prosecution is an important right in our society. It needs to be exercised with care to avoid being debased.

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  90. twofish (107 comments) says:

    Serial litigant Graham McCready and serial rates arrearant Penny Bright say a job offer to Jones amounts to bribery.

    McCready said that while Jones had done nothing wrong yet, “his alleged offences will be complete if he accepts that position”.

    So what can McCready and Bright be charged with, if Shane now changes his mind and stays in Parliament?

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  91. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Kea, no surprises there with your so called ” self ” regulated markets .You seem to apparently, like Delingpole ,love to consort with his Conspiracy theory,.paranoia and libertarianism.
    In your fanciful and misguided promotion of so called ” choices “, I take it your a fan of allowing us to take our chances with health and food safety when we go to a restaurant, leaving it entirely up to “self ” regulation and the whim of the “free ” markets.
    This ” choices” thing, is in many instances , an infantile form of stubborn self centeredness that commonly afflicts our local fun Libertarians and CT crew.IMO

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  92. Nukuleka (399 comments) says:

    Am I the only person tired of hearing the term ‘prohibition’ used by folk wanting open slather on drug use? To say that we should not be aiming as a society to reduce social dependence upon drug use of any kind is cynicism taken to the nth degree. As a society we are working hard and spending a great deal of money to make NZ a tobacco-free country. Why cannot the same degree of commitment be dedicated to making NZ a drug-free society as well? Sadly there are a large number of drug-addled bloggers contributing to this debate. People who have no concept of Browning’s maxim that ‘a man’s reach should exceed his grasp or what’s a heaven for’. It matters not if it is an idealist goal. It is a GOOD goal.

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  93. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    stephieboy, yeah thats right. Because I believe in a degree of personal freedom and do not think the state should force the choices of a few on the many, I must be into conspiracy theories and have no regard for the welfare of others.

    Nothing hysterical there. Just common sense really. Idiot.

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  94. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Nukuleka , I have only one question for you:

    What degree of force do you think acceptable for the State to use when forcing your views on others ?

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  95. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Kea (10,635 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 10:40 am

    He strongly believes in and unfettered and totally deregulated self-regulating market.

    What happens if the average rate of return from capital is greater than the average rate of economic growth?

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  96. Reid (16,683 comments) says:

    Why cannot the same degree of commitment be dedicated to making NZ a drug-free society as well?

    Because it can’t be done. Look around the world. Where has it ever worked?

    And it’s not for lack of trying, is it.

    (IMO actually, it is, but that’s a conspiwacy theowy based on the revenue generated by drugs which is appropriated for black budgets. Air America was a doco, not a movie and it still happens. The intel agencies have divided the trade – Mossad gets ecstasy, CIA gets heroin, MI6 gets cocaine, etc. Don’t believe it? Look at large ecstasy busts over the past decade and see how many times the accused have been Israelis. Look at the Afghan poppies that were wiped out by the Taliban then reached record levels only two years after the US invaded. Etc. But that’s not the point.)

    The point is, even if you chose not to educate yourself and live in the matrix, even according to that “reality,” it hasn’t worked. Not ever. Not anywhere. Despite the vast resources of the intell, defence, law enforcement and border agencies, it hasn’t worked. Evidently. Clearly. In your face obvious. Not arguable. Period.

    So what’s the answer?

    Keep doing the same thing, only this time, even harder?

    What’s that called again?

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  97. mikenmild (12,340 comments) says:

    Nukuleka
    It is interesting that you contrast the approach to drugs with that adopted for tobacco. So far as I know, no one intends to make tobacco products illegal although the aim of public policy is certainly to reduce, possibly even eliminate, tobacco use. Surely the same approach could be applied to other psychoactive substances?

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  98. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Weihana, Dunno. What do you reckon ?

    I will say our current system is not working so well that we should be so attached to it.

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  99. Fletch (6,523 comments) says:

    Governments meddling with the IPCC report (which is supposed to be independent) to make it say more what they want it to say. Damn the facts! One climate expert who was there says that three-quarters of the original report ended up being deleted, while governments shaped it to better suit their interests.

    A top US academic has dramatically revealed how government officials forced him to change a hugely influential scientific report on climate change to suit their own interests.

    Harvard professor Robert Stavins electrified the worldwide debate on climate change on Friday by sensationally publishing a letter online in which he spelled out the astonishing interference.

    He said the officials, representing ‘all the main countries and regions of the world’ insisted on the changes in a late-night meeting at a Berlin conference centre two weeks ago.

    Three quarters of the original version of the document ended up being deleted.

    Prof Stavins claimed the intervention amounted to a serious ‘conflict of interest’ between scientists and governments. His revelation is significant because it is rare for climate change experts to publicly question the process behind the compilation of reports on the subject.

    Prof Stavins, Harvard’s Professor of Business and Government, was one of two ‘co-ordinating lead authors’ of a key report published by the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) earlier this month.

    His chapter of the 2,000-page original report concerned ways countries can co-operate to reduce carbon emissions.

    IPCC reports are supposed to be scrupulously independent as they give scientific advice to governments around the world to help them shape energy policies – which in turn affect subsidies and domestic power bills.

    Prof Stavins said the government officials in Berlin fought to make big changes to the full report’s ‘summary for policymakers’. This is the condensed version usually cited by the world’s media and politicians. He said their goal was to protect their ‘negotiating stances’ at forthcoming talks over a new greenhouse gas reduction treaty.

    Prof Stavins told The Mail on Sunday yesterday that he had been especially concerned by what happened at a special ‘contact group’. He was one of only two scientists present, surrounded by ‘45 or 50’ government officials.

    He said almost all of them made clear that ‘any text that was considered inconsistent with their interests and positions in multilateral negotiations was treated as unacceptable.’

    Many of the officials were themselves climate negotiators, facing the task of devising a new treaty to replace the Kyoto Protocol in negotiations set to conclude next year.

    Prof Stavins said: ‘This created an irreconcilable conflict of interest. It has got to the point where it would be reasonable to call the document a summary by policymakers, not a summary for them, and it certainly affects the credibility of the IPCC. The process ought to be reformed.’

    MORE –
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614097/Top-climate-experts-sensational-claim-government-meddling-crucial-UN-report.html

    So, you can pretty much regard the last IPCC summary for policymakers as pure propaganda.

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  100. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, Racist in Chief .? Are you referring to President Obama.? If so, a timely reminder that New Mexico like all other US states is responsible for it’s own local law enforcement and in this instance conducted by the Albuquerque Police force.The FBI only become involved in the case of interstate crime or in cases of major security breaches of national significance.
    Try and keep a lid on your disinfo today please.

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  101. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Reid, the invasions by the Russians, and now the US, have been the best thing to happen to the Taliban. It has provided them access to the worlds markets.

    They have flooded the Western world with Herion. Production is at record levels generating billions of dollars for mischief. Over 90% of the herion devastating the West is produced there and production is climbing.

    They will still be laughing long after the US pulls out with its tail between its legs. Russia still has an enourmous problem with the drug and resulting criminal gangs, even after all this time.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-spoils-of-war-afghanistan-s-multibillion-dollar-heroin-trade/91

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  102. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    nuku

    I don’t agree that we as a society are working hard to be tobacco free.

    As I see it ,tobacco has been selected by the health nazis as a first gaol to “eliminate”.We still have a reasonable section of society who enjoy tobacco ,some 20 %?

    Smokers have been turned into pariahs .Next the government has come on board ,led by the nose by the Maori Party.They are now attacking private property rights in respect of tobacco.very dangerous.It started as a health thing and has now gone completly out of all proportion.

    There’s nothing wrong with a wee bit o tobaccy.Unlike cannabis it is a deeply ingrained part of our culture,like alcohol.

    Leave our culture alone.

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  103. CrazyIvan (92 comments) says:

    The Foreign Affairs Act 1988 applies to the appointment of any head of mission etc. Gov-general appoints them and they aren’t subject to the particulars of any MFAT review process. Not sure how a roving ambassador role fits in but it seems to be separate to the normal state sector provisions.

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  104. georgebolwing (1,011 comments) says:

    Nukuleka, the key point is that using tobacco is not a crime, nor is its manufacture or supply (provided regulations are complied with).

    ‘Prohibition’ is the correct word to describe the approach contained in section 6 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975.

    The points I, and others are making are:

    a) the state has no legitimate role in proscribing self-harm: adults should be free to do whatever they like, provided they do not harm others;

    b) if, despite this, reducing self-harm is the goal, then long experience suggests that “prohibition” (ie, making supply and use of something that is demonstrably pleasureable a criminal offence) is very unlikely to be effective and, importantly, is likely to lead to many unintended side-effects.

    I would suggest that if freedom of action is not going to be supported, then a better public policy goal would be to make self-harm safe, legal and rare.

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  105. gravedodger (1,575 comments) says:

    @doggone7 10 19, some validity in your comment except that those who made the decision were all from Clutha Southland, had to have been a member for prescribed time, were CS branch nominated delegates, and more importantly made their own decision without any HO input.
    Todd Barclay is a similar age to English when he won the seat, born and educated in the electorate and won reasonably early in the process.

    Any serious party needs to have a younger candidate offering to match the requirements of the idiotic MMP system where voting rights are awarded to 18 year olds.

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  106. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    Is Greece finally on the mend?

    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/11/business/greece-economy-on-path-to-recovery/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

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  107. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    stephieboy, so Obama has no control over the States of America. And anything bad is Bush’s fault, because even in his second term Obama is not responsible for anything bad.

    At what point (if any) will you accept Obama really is in charge ?

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  108. doggone7 (846 comments) says:

    “Why are Labour MPs the only ones being interviewed by Newstalkzb talkback? It is disgusting to hear a lying, good-for-nothing Mallard getting air time to distort and mislead listeners…!”

    Good old Newstalkzb eh? Should get the honest politicians on who don’t distort.
    Umm, shall we start with John Key, Judith Collins or Peter Dunne? As we’ve heard Hoskings is on holiday. He’ll soon be back and normal transmission will be resumed.

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  109. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Nukuleka (80 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 11:10 am

    Am I the only person tired of hearing the term ‘prohibition’ used by folk wanting open slather on drug use? To say that we should not be aiming as a society to reduce social dependence upon drug use of any kind is cynicism taken to the nth degree.

    The relevance of the term “prohibition” is to reference a failed and harmful attempt to eliminate alcohol use. It implies nothing about the virtue of drug use.

    As a society we are working hard and spending a great deal of money to make NZ a tobacco-free country. Why cannot the same degree of commitment be dedicated to making NZ a drug-free society as well?

    Tobacco is legal to consume. If what you propose is to legalize other drugs, tax them, and then discourage use through public campaigns aimed to stigmatize their use then that seems a rather drastic departure from the current approach through the judiciary.

    Sadly there are a large number of drug-addled bloggers contributing to this debate. People who have no concept of Browning’s maxim that ‘a man’s reach should exceed his grasp or what’s a heaven for’. It matters not if it is an idealist goal. It is a GOOD goal.

    I’m not sure how drug use inherently limits one’s reach. Certainly there are many who are very successful despite smoking tobacco, drinking alcohol, or using cannabis.

    But regardless, good intentions are not sufficient for public policy. A policy shouldn’t be favoured for it’s good intentions over favourable outcomes.

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  110. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    I see kea is quite at peace with his “choices” e.g eating at a local reseraunt knowingly aware that issues of food and hygiene safety have not been attended to.
    Good luck with your food poisoning and or Hepatitis A infection etc. .Real practical down to earth common sense there I believe..? But so glad to see you part company with our local CTer fan boys,UT, Reid etc.Keep it up.!

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  111. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    There’s nothing wrong with a wee bit o tobaccy.Unlike cannabis it is a deeply ingrained part of our culture,like alcohol.

    Leave our culture alone.

    The unselfconsious hypocrisy and double-standards of Katie are indeed a wonderous thing to behold. FFS ! :)

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  112. Fletch (6,523 comments) says:

    Dr Phil meets Obama and Putin to sort out their relationship :)

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  113. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, Racist in Chief .?

    I was quoting another poster, idiot. Even you should have picked that up.

    If so, a timely reminder that New Mexico like all other US states is responsible for it’s own local law enforcement

    It wasn’t law enforcement, stevieboy, the New Mexico police murdered the man.

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  114. sbk (313 comments) says:

    a stark warning…via Andrew Bolt…”TREASURY is expecting the most sustained period of weak growth in Australia for at least 50 years, with the economy forecast still to be feeling the pain of falling commodity prices and weak income growth in 2020.”

    as Andrew Bolt bemuses “what idiots blew the surplus”…easy, Labor and the Greens.

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  115. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Anyone think that the Chinese economy might have a problem with a rising cost of debt to those over-leveraged?

    The government has asked their banks not to lend to those highly leveraged (to ensure the banking system remains stable and to reduce speculative bubbles), the banks have responded by offering to manage private equity finance to those in need (it costs their client a lot more than the bank loans as the investor wants a good rate of return for the risk). The government purpose, to use the higher debt cost to induce selling by those with low levels of equity (not so easy in oversupplied property markets) and possibly transfer ownership to those with the equity to buy with cheaper bank loans.

    But some Americans think the rising cost of finance is like sub-prime loans and thus there could be a problem, thus there is short selling opportunity.

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  116. NoCash (262 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (3,339 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 10:43 am
    30th banker dead in six weeks. Including a Kiwi and a banking legislator from China

    Hey Clint, are we sad that 30 bankers have died in six weeks?

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  117. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Kea (10,641 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 11:20 am

    Weihana, Dunno. What do you reckon ?

    I will say our current system is not working so well that we should be so attached to it.

    I reckon that over an extended period of time capital will dominate income, it will accumulate in the hands of the few, and inherited wealth will inevitably play a much more prominent role in the economy than earned wealth.

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  118. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    stephie

    The FBI only interstate and security cases?Jeez that’s what you get from watching too much tv.

    The FBI have long investigated crimes that their masters in Washington decide they take.

    Numerous cases that have been acquitted in state courts are brought by the Feds ,for a second go ,as it were , especially where the acquitted was white and the victim a black.

    They can do this as the victims “civil rights” under Federal law were abused.

    Do some reading stephie.

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  119. mandk (1,030 comments) says:

    This seems like a good idea: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27177767
    However, I don’t know why you would want to wait two years before making participation compulsory.
    Allowing someone to languish on unemployment benefit for two years does no one any favours – especially the person on the benefit.

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  120. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (899 comments) says:

    stigie (649 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 8:04 am
    Is this the week where we see Liarbore below 28% in the Roy Morgan poll ?

    Stigie – That is what we think. However, Roy Morgan is worst in terms of consistency. I wouldn’t be surprised if it shows a huge increase in Labour/Green support.

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  121. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    All in red

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  122. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, Racist in Chief .? Are you referring to President Obama.?

    Katie, Anyone who thinks the Federal authorities are … Federal… is RACIST !!! in stephieboys view.

    Keep em coming stephie :)

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  123. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    Alison Mau on radio live is just dreadful.

    shes in quite the state today about these “legal highs”. she wants everything banned. to “protect the kids”

    she wants RTD’s banned cause they are made for children blah blah blah

    does anyone know if one of her teens is acting out at the moment? cause its bound to happen when mum leaves dad for a chick.

    obviously, if shes having trouble with her kids then Dimes freedom to buy rtd’s and smoke whatever he wants must be taken away*

    * Dime doesnt use the legal high stuff or drink RTD’s but thats not the point!

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  124. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Kowtow, you appear to misterepsent what I was trying to say.I pointed out that it was the Alberquerque Distric Police that were responsible for the tragic shooting who come under the jurisdiction of the State of New Mexico , not the FBI or Washington as far as am aware.Those are the all important facts.
    It’s irrelevant as to what the FBI may do or not get up to ,by their Washington pay masters or whatever, in this particular
    case.
    Its simple as that.!
    Kea, all I do, unlike you , is try and keep the facts right as this case illustrates .!

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  125. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    UKIP is rocking the boat: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/european-elections-ukip-under-repeated-fire–but-its-not-putting-off-the-voters-say-the-polls-9292690.html

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  126. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    Stephie is Obama’s number one fan. His hero is Kenyan black, so don’t you dare to attack him.

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  127. Odakyu-sen (851 comments) says:

    Kea commented: “I find it absurd that people think overpriced houses are a good thing and show a positive economic trend”

    What do you think of the thesis that having a system that locks people into a payment treadmill for 25 years is a stabilizing factor in society. There are carrot and stick factors at work. First the carrots: being a home-owner is an important status symbol. Postwar history makes us believe that our house will be our retirement fund. And the sticks: lose your job and you lose everything. Separate, and your partner may take both the house and the kids.

    Maybe the powers that be desire this stabilizing status quo to continue, and permit immigration of well-cashed individuals to help keep it going. In NZ it’s no good deciding that you can’t have kids because you can’t afford them; you will be replaced by someone brought in from overseas who will. This government interference effectively hobbles the NZ population’s ability to self-regulate.

    Things are a little different in Japan. The Japanese are staring a population implosion in the face because their culture values its Japanese identity above short-term economic gain. They may have to go through a thoroughly nasty realignment, but at least their culture will remain “pure”* in their eyes.

    (The debate of the pros and cons of “pure”* is another issue entirely.)

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  128. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Odakyu-sen, A typically well considered post. One day I will catch you out saying something silly ;)

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  129. Longknives (4,953 comments) says:

    “Alison Mau on radio live is just dreadful.”

    You still would Dime….

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  130. Longknives (4,953 comments) says:

    What the fuck is up with Northland Schoolteachers?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9985344/Teacher-faces-sex-abuse-charges

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  131. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    What the fuck is up with Northland Schoolteachers?

    Easy to answer.

    Teachers tend to be Green or Labour voters. The left always hold themselves up to be more moral and good than ordinary people. They make a big fuss about it.

    I have previously commented that people who make a big fuss about morality seldom live up to the standards they so vocally demand of others. In fact I got banned for providing some examples ;)

    I generally regard those who are publicly vocal about sex and morality as dodgy deviates in their private lives.

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  132. SGA (1,252 comments) says:

    Longknives at 1:17 pm

    What the fuck is up with Northland Schoolteachers?

    Is it difficult to get schoolteachers for Northland positions? Don’t know, just a thought.

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  133. SGA (1,252 comments) says:

    Kea at 1:35 pm

    The left always hold themselves up to be more moral and good than ordinary people. They make a big fuss about it.

    That’s what’s so cool about Kiwiblog – no big fusses about morality :-)

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  134. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    Lydia Ko just won 300 stacks. Does that mean she will stop trying to scab another 250 off us tax payers?

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  135. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    dime
    Why can’t we have contracts like Scott Dixon had and have these sports people pay back their support once they’ve cracked it.
    All we ever see is them later in their careers turning up at events for children and claim they are ” giving back” . The cynic in me suggests they only do that to get awards like OBE etc. I’d rather have the money thank you.
    IIRC the Indy 500 win was the one which set Scott free.
    Ko should be ashamed if she takes our money now.

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  136. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Manolo (12,654 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 12:48 p

    Everyone has the right to criticize me or anyone else here on KB and elsewhere. The same , I assume, applies to you or are you special. ?
    Unlike you and certain others I don’t try and judge people by the colour of their skin.
    Nor buy into the Birther and “the Kenyan “garbage that you crazily and obsessively post about.

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  137. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    Griff
    Did you score some acid?
    Do share. Haven’t had any for years.

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  138. Longknives (4,953 comments) says:

    Ko will continue fleece the NZ taxpayer for everything she can before she switches allegiance to another Country.
    I’d be surprised if she ever even sets foot in this Country again (‘Kiwi’ Danny Lee anyone??)

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  139. questions (209 comments) says:

    So, Mugabe at the canonization ceremony, anyone ok with that?

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  140. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    questions, Yeah I am fine with it. He has hurt less Africans than the black Jesus Obama. He also has not launched drones and put troops into any other African countries, as Obama has.

    Mugabe should be due for a Nobel Prize by now :)

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  141. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    Long knives
    Ko has just bought a house in Florida

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  142. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    All in red. you are full of shit

    Your are in denial about being in denial

    You talk about shit you know absolutely nothing about
    Proved by you quoting James I don’t read science Denailpull
    he admits he has no idea yet you follow his bullshit like you cock is locked up his arse.

    ask the farmers in california about “catastrophic” wingnut

    [DPF: 20 demerits. You are now on 90]

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  143. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Kea (10,654 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 11:35 am
    stephieboy, so Obama has no control over the States of America. And anything bad is Bush’s fault, because even in his second term Obama is not responsible for anything bad.

    At what point (if any) will you accept Obama really is in charge ?

    Vote: 0 2

    This post by kea demonstrates a woeful ignorance of how the US is actually governed.Various responsibilities and functions are shared between States and the Federal governments. Much of US history is about the debate about striking the right balance between what is termed the Sates vs Federal Rights.
    One thing is clear the States are responsible for their local law enforcement . Federal law enforcement agencies like the FBI only become involved with cases of interstate crime or issues of national security like 9/11.

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  144. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    “This post by kea … blah blah Obama is black your are racist !!! blah blah “

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  145. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    Stunning rebuttal Griff.
    Look, cease the abuse or I’ll complain to DPF. It’s just blatant offensive trolling. Cry tell mummy if you like, but at least you will be banned.

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  146. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    ask the farmers in california about “catastrophic” wingnut

    Griffy, What happened to “weather is not climate” ? Do you want to retract that now ? (Gosh I hope so :) )

    All_on_Red, Don’t you dare lower yourself to that level. You are better than that. There would be a special place in Hell for those who attempt to restrict freedom of expression. You will be joining Pol Pott, Stalin, Hitler and Mao there. Don’t do it mate :)

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  147. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Kea, am afraid you lack one basic thing.
    Thats facing reality and hard facts.!
    Am afraid thats what your delusional thinking does to you.

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  148. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    Kea,
    Do you reckon I see if he can take it?
    Shall we talk about his dad? Or his mum?

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  149. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    Stephie repeats “Federal law enforcement agencies like the FBI only become involved with cases of interstate crime or issues of national security like 9/11.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_civil_rights_workers'_murders

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  150. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    longknives – its a matter of time. once the govt cash runs out she will switch to korea. more sponsorship.

    at that point everyone will lament how we let her go wah wah wah

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  151. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Shall we talk about his dad? Or his mum?

    Okay but not his kids, Moonbeam & Karma ;)

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  152. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Kowtow. obviously there are exceptions when in the case of the ” Mississippi Burning ” murders. Both the local police and D A offices failed to conduct a proper criminal investigation or prosecution for the murders. In fact the Mississippi state according to your link acted in defiance of Supreme Court orders to desegregate. A state of civil war was in effect declared by the state but wilted with the lack of local and especially national public support.
    This could be fairly described as a state of national emergency much like 9/11 .But the general rule is that the FBI only become involved in instances of interstate crime with States like Mississippi and New Mexico left to deal with their own law enforcement.
    I suggest in future you read your link more carefully .

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  153. dirty harry (525 comments) says:

    ..and they still let this nutbar out..only in nil ziland

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9985376/Notorious-stalker-to-be-released

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  154. NoCash (262 comments) says:

    It’s been reported that Ko has not asked for govt funding since turning pro.

    However, NZ Golf has requested new funding in Ko’s name without asking her first…

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  155. Jack5 (5,274 comments) says:

    I note some posters call Kea a “troll”.

    Not that I agree, and without being too sexist, if the classification is correct, would one of the following descriptions be more appropriate: trolly-bird, trolly-bust, trollette, perhaps even moll-troll? What about in honour of the molly-mawk, the label: molly-trolly?

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  156. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Jack5, Troll is simply shorthand for; I have no reasoned argument to support my position and you are making me look bad.

    Other favourites are: Anti-semite and Racist :)

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  157. Longknives (4,953 comments) says:

    “It’s been reported that Ko has not asked for govt funding since turning pro.
    However, NZ Golf has requested new funding in Ko’s name without asking her first…”

    Then why doesn’t the greedy soon-to-be turncoat simply decline those wads of taxpayer cash then?

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  158. Jack5 (5,274 comments) says:

    Kea, young bird, surely you aren’t saying you are an anti-semite or a racist?

    If you take either side in Israelis v Palestinians you are pro-semite.

    As for racist: if the concept of “race” is pretty flaky, can racism be more than that?

    As for “troll” being the short hand you speak of at 4.54, it surely isn’t an acronym for that.

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  159. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    Jack5

    The definition of a “troll” is subjective. In Kea’s case I prefer this one from the Urban Dictionary:

    ….”One of many unsung internet heroes who are almost entirely misunderstood. Contrary to popular belief, many trolls are actually quite intelligent. Their habitual attacks on forums is usually a result of their awareness of the pretentiousness and excessive self-importance of many forum enthusiasts. As much as people may hate trolls, they are highly effective – their actions bring much of the stupidity of other forum users out into the great wide open. “…..

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  160. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Jack5, agreed. Funny how those that tell us Race has no valid scientific meaning are the first to cry Racist ! and demand special consideration for certain Races. The willfully ignorant also have no idea what “semite” refers to. Lets keep it our little secret ;)

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  161. Jack5 (5,274 comments) says:

    Nasska: she’s intelligent, no question, and usually at least at first after DPF let’s her out of the Kiwiblog slammer, she’s entertaining.

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  162. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    No stephie ,these are not exceptions they were easy ones off the internet to give you examples to show you are wrong.

    The reason I raise this is I’ve heard of such cases in the news when I was visiting over there. The case in question was a black murdered ,acquitted guys put up on charges of civil rights violations……

    ……the Feds want their 2 bites at the apple . They wanted to have a go at Zimmerman too,did they?

    This may be instructive.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-mullen/kelly-thomas-case-federal-civil-rights-charges_b_4611385.html

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  163. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    Jack5

    I disagree on the gender issue. Kiwiblog’s own “Kea” is definitely male….our correspondent has stated such many times & if you read his comments they take a male POV. A few of our lesser lights have researched Marnie Shepherd’s (a physics expert who suffers from depression) pseudonym of Kea then added 1 + 1 to get a result of 3.

    Generally he’s lucid & makes a good argument unless ruffled with deep religious discussions. That’s where the trouble starts.

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  164. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    An early photo of Kea. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/k3gythtpymn5e84/Kea%20at%20Plunket.jpg

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  165. twofish (107 comments) says:

    Key defended Dunne, saying the issue was a “challenging space”.
    “What would have happened [without Dunne’s announcement yesterday] was today Labour would have announced they wanted to push for what we were actually doing,” the prime minister said.
    “We would then have to spend effectively eight days arguing against something we knew we were going to do. It’s the messy side of politics and I can’t really stop that.

    Wrong.

    Key could have said “For once Labour makes sense, and we are looking again at this. However an ill-timed announcement could cause “stock-piling”, or other disadvantages. We will move when it is appropriate.”
    Or any variation on that.

    This is Key’s second obvious mistake.
    But David [Big Tool] Parker’s nine in a row beats that easily :-)

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  166. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (1,005 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 2:42 pm

    Blub blub blub Griff is being nasty to me.

    no balls girly ?

    all I said wingnut #

    Is that you would really have to be a stupid idiot for linking to such a moron as denailpuller

    You are such an idiot you go to climate science information to a guy who is on record as saying he knows absolutely nothing about the science of climate change.?”

    and to a guy on record as saying climate change is a hoax because god says to me mans can not change the climate Roy hopeless spinner Spencer

    yes obviously
    A pathetic
    loserwho hasent got the balls to admit he is full of shit.

    Run to DPF girly if that makes you feel Better Blub blub blub Need mommys skirt to wipe away the tears

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  167. mikenmild (12,340 comments) says:

    griffith
    You can surely argue without being offensive. Your 2.37 was well OTT and surely deserves you more demerits.

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  168. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    A pathetic
    loserwho hasent got the balls to admit he is full of shit.

    Another erudite presentation of climate “science” [sic] thoughtfully summarised by Griff :)

    Milky, if discussion of science upsets you so much then don’t read it. Or go home to the Hand Mirror.

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  169. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    griffith (889 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    All in red. you are full of shit

    Your are in denial about being in denial

    You talk about shit you know absolutely nothing about
    Proved by you quoting James I don’t read science Denailpull
    he admits he has no idea yet you follow his bullshit like your cock is up his arse you are his gay boyfriend

    ask the farmers in california about “catastrophic” wingnut

    There MM does that make you feel better

    all in red talks shit
    he drops the same bullshit statement ten times in a row yet refuses to debate or give a source for his crap and you want me to treat him like an adult ?
    get real.

    I wlll as soon as the pathetic screen licking mongrel actually backs his crap

    And all in red I am not a stupid american gngsta so talking about my mommy or my daddy is not going to make me give a fuck. Only a kid like you talks that pathetic yo mommy rubish.

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  170. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Kea
    Not woth debating anything with you sqwark you make up crap all the time and when this is proven you keep the same lies comming .

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  171. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Griff,

    1. Climate is not weather.

    2. Many climatic variations that cause you so much distress are called Seasons. I assure you they are normal and necessary.

    3. The climate varies by region. The reason there are hurricanes in the hurricane season in the hurricane belt is due to the position on the earth. It is not caused by BIG OIL, PROFITS !! etc.

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  172. mikenmild (12,340 comments) says:

    I see the pope canonised a couple of his predecessors today. How exactly does this work? Does god get the message and move the new saints into a special part of heaven?

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  173. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    What happens to the old saints Mike? It must be getting a bit crowded up there.

    I’m glad I’m not the one sorting out the pecking order. :)

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  174. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    1. Climate is not weather.
    well done

    2. Many climatic variations that cause you so much distress are called Seasons. I assure you they are normal and necessary.
    Sqwark

    3. The climate varies by region. The reason there are hurricanes in the hurricane season in the hurricane belt is due to the position on the earth. It is not caused by BIG OIL, PROFITS !! etc.

    More stupid sqwarking about made up rubbish .
    hurricanes are getting stronger…….. fact…..storms are doing more damage ….fact The climate</b> is changeing fact.

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  175. Reid (16,683 comments) says:

    Lots of potential dot-connecting in this one:

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/04/26/mh370-evidence-of-false-flag/

    Hat off to UT, he was talking about DG and Freescale from when it was first announced. This doesn’t refer to the Freescale angle, rather to the background and other activities of other dots.

    BTW, for matrix captives, what you’re meant to do with this stuff is neither dismiss nor agree with it outright, rather just file it away in the potential basket and wait for other intel that confirms or denies. That’s how intelligence works. The really critical thing to know is that nothing is ever dismissed simply because the analyst’s tummy is hurting.

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  176. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    Griff

    I’ve been working in rural Wairarapa for nearly fifty years, the last 28 as a farmer on my own account. I live the climate/weather….it’s the only input I can’t control & it’s also the most important.

    My observation…..overall it’s not changing. In a seven year period we’ll get two great seasons, two piss poor ones & three soso. It was the same in the 60’s.

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  177. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    kea is full of crap
    He makes stuff up all the time
    that you think he isnt has seen me lose all respect for you nasska.

    The girl is a pointless troll.

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  178. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    kowtow (6,772 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 5:07 pm

    Again you fail to recognize the FBI”S roles , functions.and jurisdictions. As a part of the US Department of Justice it has Jurisdiction over such issues as Civil Rights violations as was the case with the Kelly Thomas case. The FBi became involved shortly before his death which was welcomed by ,I understand his parents ,who like the American Civil Liberties Union mistrusted the capabilities and impartiality of the County Orange’s District Attorney’s office to investigate Police shootings and alleged beatings.
    Included in it’s jurisdiction are Racketeering , Drug Trafficking , Organized Crime like combating e.g the Mafia , major and serious Fraud all of which most often involve Interstate offending and often beyond the resources of State governments. Of course there is a great deal of mutual support and collaboration between local law and Federal agencies like the FBI in combating these kind of crimes .
    The FBI are currently reopening and probing further the the Kelly Thomas case after the cops were acquitted,,

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/14/fbi-investigate-kelly-thomas-case-after-acquittal-/

    Surely you can’t object to that.?

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  179. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    More stupid sqwarking about made up rubbish .
    hurricanes are getting stronger…….. fact…..storms are doing more damage ….fact

    Whoops Griffy told a fib ! :)

    Incredibly, not a single decade during the past 50 years saw an above-average number of major hurricanes – not a single decade!

    Now let’s look at the preceding 50 years in the hurricane record, before the alleged human-induced global warming crisis. During the decade 1941-1950, 11 major hurricanes struck the United States. That is substantially above the 100-year average.

    Global warming alarmists better hope we start seeing a rash of major hurricanes pretty soon if this is not going to be the quietest decade on record. Until and unless that happens, the objective data show the Climate Science Rapid Response Team is actually the Climate Science Rapid Propaganda Team.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2012/09/05/dont-believe-the-global-warmists-major-hurricanes-are-less-frequent/

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  180. Reid (16,683 comments) says:

    My observation…..overall it’s not changing. In a seven year period we’ll get two great seasons, two piss poor ones & three soso. It was the same in the 60′s.

    It’d be really interesting to do a ‘is AGW bollocks or not’ survey amongst those who work in fields exposed to the climate like you nasska and everyone else who’ve spent decades doing outdoors for a living.

    Then compare those results to townies who sit in an office tower looking at a screen.

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  181. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    griffith (893 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 6:38 pm
    kea is full of crap
    He makes stuff up all the time
    that you think he isnt has seen me lose all respect for you nasska.

    The girl is a pointless troll.

    Oh dear nasska this is awful ! Griffy does not respect you. I don’t mind if you abuse me a bit to win back his respect :)

    Griffy, friend, you seemed stressed. Maybe this cold weather is getting to you ? Why don’t you eat your nourishing dinner of bean sprouts and listen to some Whale Song. Maybe you should have your Chakras checked too ? I worry about you sometimes Griffy.

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  182. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    at least stephie you’.ve moved on from interstate crime and cases of major security breaches.

    Clearly done some research since 11 o’clock.

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  183. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    I reckon there’d be some difference in interpretations Reid. The amazing thing is that, from memory, Griff is/was a landscape gardener & would see actual variance as opposed to the crap fed to us by the climate scientists at the behest of their employers.

    Go figure.

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  184. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Reid the link to Gordon Duff’s one man band Veteran’s Day and Flight 370 belongs in the same league below which had Conspiracy kooks like you fooled,

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/malaysiapicture.asp

    I wonder if Fetzer and Duff have at long last found the missing 200 passengers and crews from 9/11.??.
    Last location thought to be Roswell.??

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  185. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    nasska, someone who smokes marijuana and who landscapes coastal properties is naturally going to be paranoid about rising sea levels. His work might be destroyed.

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  186. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    If he gets the cash up front it would be easier to bear the possible devastation SPC. That said, since the much advertised rise in sea levels has been a bit of a damp squib, everything’s probably okay. :)

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  187. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    stephieboy (1,205 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 11:25 am
    Ugly Truth, Racist in Chief .? Are you referring to President Obama.? If so, a timely reminder that New Mexico like all other US states is responsible for it’s own local law enforcement and in this instance conducted by the Albuquerque Police force.The FBI only become involved in the case of interstate crime or in cases of major security breaches of national significance.
    Try and keep a lid on your disinfo today please.

    None of this stopped Obama wading in when the Puerto Rican Zimmerman was subject to an attack by a black thug. It is a disgrace the case even went to trial after a public racist attack by the President on the victim Zimmerman.

    The fact is he ran a campaign based on race and people (like you stupidboy) support him based on race. You are the biggest racist on KB in my view. Vastly different standards are applied for Jews and Blacks by you.

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  188. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    kowtow, no my position has not changed . “The racist in chief ” and the US Department of Justice are not involved , controlling or manipulating the Albuquerque murder ,at this point of time, as you and others were apparently trying to suggest.

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  189. ex-golfer (169 comments) says:

    @Longknives & Dime
    Ko did not make an application for funding support.
    The application was made by NZ Golf before Ko turned pro – using her as a justification given the high chances of her winning an Olympic gold for NZ.
    Ko, when she was informed, was as surprised as the rest of us.
    She can’t withdraw from something she had no part in doing!
    Its up to NZ Golf to withdraw the application.
    It seems the amateur body for golf simply can’t manage without the cash the “up and coming” can draw in to their coffers.
    Maybe if they spent more time looking after grass-roots golf and less chasing the stars then more stars would evolve.

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  190. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, is this going to be a repetitive refrain .. whenever there is the dog whistle to race to bait liberals, inciting refutation, you jump in to accuse the liberals of being a racist.

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  191. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Kea, I cannot help it if you hate blacks and Jews and trend towards the delusional as your post perfectly illustrates. The Zimmerman case is another matter altogether complicated by, among many things , Zimmerman’s mixed Hispanic and African ancestry.It became something of a media circus which the President may of unwisely got involved himself in.,

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Trayvon_Martin

    Of course, this thread is about debate and opinion and your perfectly entitled to call me racist including tediously droning on ,rattling your cot sides with your tantrums.

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  192. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    stupidboy, Calling people to account for wrong doing is not “hate”. It is common decency.

    Look up the word “decency” and the term “hypocrite” while you are at it.

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  193. jcuk (756 comments) says:

    I would have thought a landscape artist would like rising sea levels which destroy thier handiwork but cause more work for them higher up the hill ? :)

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  194. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, just don’t expect to be immune from being held to account for how you go about it.

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  195. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    SPC, What a funny quirky little chap you are. It was not I who raised the matter of race, yet it was me you addressed your 7:25 to. How odd !

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  196. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    how you go about it.

    SPC, so content and facts are secondary to delivery and image ? Little wonder the standard of public debate is so vapid. Thanks to folk like you I always feel less informed and more stupid after reading the msm.

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  197. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, so now you claim content and facts to yourself, earlier it was decency. This claim of positive attributes to yourself combined with insults towards another is suggestive of what particular psychological profile?

    But you are funny,

    “Funny how those that tell us Race has no valid scientific meaning are the first to cry Racist”

    followed by

    “The fact is he ran a campaign based on race and people (like you stupidboy) support him based on race. You are the biggest racist on KB in my view.”

    Not sure why you call being a Jewish a racial thing though, coz if you were informed on that …

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  198. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    UT, Reid and Coy ,

    Claim: Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was made to disappear so one party could gain control of a multiply-owned patent.

    Absolutely false,

    Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/malaysiapatent.asp#RHxVHQ5w0ktwcMcG.99,

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  199. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Kea, so now you claim content and facts to yourself, earlier it was decency.

    The claim that facts and decency can not coexist is suggestive of what psychological profile ?

    This claim of positive attributes to yourself combined with insults towards another is suggestive of what particular psychological profile?

    The profile that does what is right instead of appealing to the popular in a blatant attempt at self promotion ?

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  200. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    Three old men are discussing their sex lives.

    The Italian man says, “Last week, my wife and
    I had great sex. I rubbed her body all over with
    olive oil, we made passionate love, and she
    screamed for 5 minutes at the end.”

    The Frenchman boasts, “Last week when my
    wife and I had sex, I rubbed her body all over
    with butter. We then made passionate love and
    she screamed for 15 minutes.”

    The old Maori man says, “Well, last week my wife
    and I had sex too. I rubbed her body all over with
    mutton bird fat, we made love, and she screamed for 6 hours.”

    The Italian and Frenchman were stunned.

    They replied, “What could you have possibly done
    to make your wife scream for 6 hours?”

    “I wiped my hands on the drapes.”

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  201. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    SPC @ 7:55 what ???

    Are you binging on legal highs tonight ? Slow down buddy you have a few weeks to go. Pace yourself.

    stupidboy @ 7:58, I just wish Obama would hand the Jews responsible over to the Malaysian authorities. (They are Muslim you know ) ;)

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  202. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, I will take you through it slowly.

    1 You said something about those who accused others of being racist.
    2. Then in a later post you called someone a racist and so were profiling yourself.

    That was funny.

    In context you seem to confuse colour of skin (black) and being Jewish with race, despite saying that those who call others racist those who also know that race has no scientific basis.

    A confused parody of informed fact based opinion.

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  203. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    SPC, Actually it was me who reminded stupidboy that Judaism is a religion not a race. Though I noted that is debated by Jews themselves. If you get two Jews in a room you get three opinions.

    Would you like to explain what you consider “race” for the benefit of us ignorant types ? Remember no references to appearance, religion or culture.

    Go for it …

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  204. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, Judaism and being Jewish are not the same thing (the former is a term for the religion but not the ethnic people). Anyone born to a Jewish mother is a Jew (even if both are atheists) – and that is the official religious law on the issue of who ethnic Jews are.

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  205. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    SPC, LOL :)

    Dear oh dear….

    So being Jewish is the “religion” [not the ethnic people] BUT “Anyone born to a Jewish mother is a Jew (even if both are atheists)” Religious atheists you say !

    “official religious law” Really ? Says who ? Does Israel have Sharia [religious] law, to go along with the morality patrols and attacks on women ?,

    Actually the Jews are like many Arabs. Semites. Probably because they are largely the same people. Speaking of which, can you let me know what a “race” is.

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  206. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    All I know is the Jews were classified by the Nazis as a race by their race laws !

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  207. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, er no. Judaism refers to the religion – those of the religion are called Jews/Jewish (including those not ethnic Jews). Being a Jew by ethnicity does not require any religious belief. Thus all born to Jewish mothers are ethnic Jews, thus also Jewish. Not one religious group of Jews denies Jewish status to those born to Jewish mothers – this has been the case for many centuries.

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  208. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    stupidboy, Yes indeed. The Socialist Workers Party did not make the distinction SPC attempts to make. Any Jew was considered a Jew. And just like SPC being an atheist did not change a thing.

    It is debated, but there is science that suggests they are a race. Here is an article from Aryan Master Race KKK Monthly Haaretz Israel:

    In his new book, “Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People,” Harry Ostrer, a medical geneticist and professor at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, claims that Jews are different, and the differences are not just skin deep. Jews exhibit, he writes, a distinctive genetic signature.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664

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  209. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    stephieboy, relativity … the Nazis regarded anyone not a European as of another race – the Jews as an ethnic group with origins from another region were easy to categorise as of another race.

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  210. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, 8.51 no the argument is that many Jews have ancestors in common that can be identified by DNA.

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  211. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    SPC, still struggling with my “race” question? I thought you would not answer it. Yet you are happy to define Jews as a race, though not black people ! So how do you know someone is a Jew, do you measure their nose or something ? (You don’t say.) Anyway moving on…

    So only the Jewish “race” is allowed claim to the land of “gods chosen ones”. Though they might consider you up to standard if you are only half master race. Charming !

    Imagine any other country trying that one !

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  212. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, how are people Arabs – because they speak Arabic? Berbers, Egyptians et al across a region with some diversity. Unified by
    language and religion by living under Moslem rule.

    Islam was formed by the original Arabs of Arabia, southern Semites. The northern Semites included the Jews.

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  213. Southern Raider (1,777 comments) says:

    My view is being Jewish is a combination of religion, culture and ethnicity. You don’t have to be all three (although most are) but you must be at least one.

    Because Jewish people stopped actively converting others around 2000 years ago for most there is very definitive ethnic lines back to common families, regions, towns etc.

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  214. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Kea, 8.51 no the argument is that many Jews have ancestors in common that can be identified by DNA.

    Really ?

    SPC, We are told Jews have been persecuted for centuries. Yet DNA was not modeled until the 1950’s. Testing came much later. Sorry but it looks like you made that up to avoid telling us how YOU identify race. You have worked yourself into a corner as your type always does.

    Not to worry. At least you keep swinging when your on the ropes and do not run away like Griffy and Ugly. ;)

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  215. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, stop lying. The reason you use the strawman of others supposedly believing Jews to be a race (only the Nazis are on record as doing so), is to then attack this strawman position as some sort of race based basis for Zionism/land claim.

    Sort of explains your agenda.

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  216. Southern Raider (1,777 comments) says:

    Bollocks Kea.

    My brother in law did one of the Google backed DNA tests and came back that he was Ashkenazi. If there is no common heritage how is this so?

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  217. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    SPC, thanks for letting slip Arabs are semites. I look forward to you reminding us of that fact next time stupidboy has one of his brain farts and blurts “anti semite” when anything is presented that does not cast Jews in a favorable light.

    I won’t hold my breath though.

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  218. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

    “The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring ….”

    ABSTRACT
    ” Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of the Jewish Diaspora. A set of 18 biallelic polymorphisms was genotyped in 1,371 males from 29 populations, including 7 Jewish (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) and 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. The Jewish populations were characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that were also present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe. A series of analyses was performed to address whether modern Jewish Y-chromosome diversity derives mainly from a common Middle Eastern source population or from admixture with neighboring non-Jewish populations during and after the Diaspora. Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora.”

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC18733/

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  219. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Southern Raider, so what is your point ? I have not expressed any opinion about the “race” of Jews.

    SPC, you are getting very irrational:

    ” Jews have ancestors in common that can be identified by DNA.”

    Followed by:

    “The reason you use the strawman of others supposedly believing Jews to be a race (only the Nazis are on record as doing so), is to then attack this strawman position as some sort of race based basis for Zionism/land claim.”

    So are they a race or not in your view ? And how did the Nazi (only “supposedly” in your view) decide who was a Jew years before DNA was discovered ?

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  220. Reid (16,683 comments) says:

    The matrix continues to weave its magic.

    Matrix people of course refuse to believe a lefty can sometimes be correct. It seems to cause a short-circuit in their wiring. Too bad, for them.

    http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-strangelove-effect-or-how-we-are-hoodwinked-into-accepting-a-new-world-war

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  221. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, now the strawman is that the belated arrival of DNA science evidence of genetic trails means that ethnic peoples had no way of identifying themselves before then. Have you asked Jews born before the DNA science how Jews who had Jewish ancestry knew this and were part of a Jewish community in their day just as their ancestors were without this knowledge?

    So guess how the Germans identified Jews, those born into Jewish families.

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  222. Left Right and Centre (3,007 comments) says:

    (1) Can we at least all agree that we’re all homo sapiens sapiens ?

    BTW – adding the second ‘sapiens’ . . . nice one ya fuckin geek scientists. I mean – it is hilarious but still very wrong.

    (2) I’m building my little profile of my Lord Nasska more and more . . . muhahahahaha . . . mmmm – farmer . . . fifty years (fuck-king hell FIFTY !!!!!) all of it in the Wairarapa. That’s commitment for ya. I just need some photos – I’ve got a lot of blank wall space – muhahahahaha

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  223. Ross12 (1,484 comments) says:

    Oh well , another AGW “poster child” bites the dust.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/alaskan-polar-bears-threatened-too-much-spring-ice-0

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  224. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    stupidboy/ SPC/ Southern Jew, I am not sure we are even disagreeing. I think what is happening is you are being all defensive and attributing views to me I do not hold in defense of gods favourites.

    Its amusing watch you all squirm like salted Slugs, keep it up :)

    Though we have got you admitting that the DNA science shows the people of the area are a mix. A mix that includes the semitic Arabs you enjoy demonising. Personally I am a bit taken back by your unselfconscious enthusiasm for religious persecution given your claimed knowledge of Jewish history.

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  225. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, the term anti-Semite is dated, it refers to a time when Europeans were forming nations around common language and culture. It is the identifying of those not of the European nation – a distinct community such as the Jews were a target for nationalists.

    It however cannot be used for negative reaction to Moslem migrants into Europe as some are not Semitic, maybe for some Arab Moslems and some Arab Christians.

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  226. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Reid, you would spend better time usefully responding to your absurd claims about Flight 370 .Especially the claim: Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was made to disappear so one party could gain control of a multiply-owned patent.

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  227. Left Right and Centre (3,007 comments) says:

    Its amusing watch you all squirm like salted Slugs, keep it up

    I’ve actually been eating deep fried salted slugs for a month or two now. Started off as a way to try and keep the food budget down. Turns out – they’re actually really good. And yes it is amusing to watch them squirm, which is how I fill the time during ad breaks.

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  228. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    DNA links prove Jews are a ‘race,’ says genetics expert
    Conjuring fear of Nazism and anti-Semitism, Jews recoil from the thought that Judaism might be a race, but medical geneticist Harry Ostrer insists the ‘biological basis of Jewishness’ cannot be ignored.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664

    The cheek of these anti semite neo Nazis at the … errr… hmmmm….aaaaaa…. popular Israeli news service Haaretz LOL :)

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  229. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Kea Forbes
    you know James Taylor is a paid lobbyist for heartland he is a qualified lawyer working for the oil industry and is not a scientist in any way.
    Kea goes to lawyers for climate science :lol: Do you go to the ice cream parlor for medical advice ? get you cars fixed at the whore house hairdressers?

    The number of Category 4 and 5 hurricanes worldwide has nearly doubled over the past 35 years, according to a study by researchers at the Georgia Institute of Technology and the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR). The shift occurred as global sea surface temperatures have increased over the same period. The research appears in the September 16 issue of Science.

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  230. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, more strawman, care you name any post of mine demonising Semitic Arabs? And any post demonstrating enthusiasm for religious persecution (I think its just common sense that the number of Jews who are exempt from conscription and then get welfare for life while studying the Torah/Tanakh/Talmud etc should be one per family).

    In defence of anyone, not required. I am just holding you to account. Just as you claim to do in regard to others.

    As to the DNA, c 5000BCE common ancestry for northern and southern Semites. The north Semites common ancestry back to 2000BCE – the earliest patriarch era (includes Syria/Lebanon and Palestine).

    Harry Ostrer is indicative that Jews like to argue, is being a race based on having common ancestry. Er no. Because inter-marriage occurs. Thus Jews include those of all “groups on earth are Jews then of the human race?

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  231. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    SPC (4,735 comments) says:
    April 28th, 2014 at 9:25 pm
    Kea, the term anti-Semite is dated, it refers to a time when Europeans were forming nations around common language and culture. It is the identifying of those not of the European nation – a distinct community such as the Jews were a target for nationalists.

    It however cannot be used for negative reaction to Moslem migrants into Europe as some are not Semitic, maybe for some Arab Moslems and some Arab Christians.

    Why are you telling me the term is dated rather than stupidboy and Katie ?

    Some Jews may not be semitic either so it should not be used for them either [anti semite]. In spite of the fanatical efforts of Jewish supremacist groups, like the ADL, Jews do not own the language.

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  232. SGA (1,252 comments) says:

    As I understand it, defining “race” by DNA is a can of worms. There are no a priori criteria for deciding how much genetic similarity/difference would determine calling a group a “race”. Loose criteria produce lots of “races”, strict criteria very few.

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  233. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    care you name any post of mine demonisin

    SPC, no I can not. It was not aimed directly at you.

    However you do not seem to oppose religious hatred directed at certain groups. You do fly into action very smartly unless Jews and Israelis are spoken of in only reverential terms.

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  234. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    Griff, Taylor did not do the research or gather the data. The data shows less storms not more. That remains the fact regardless of who provides the figures. Shooting the messenger is warmist tactic 101:00 but it sure ain’t science.

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  235. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    SGA, thus my reluctance to attempt an answer to that question earlier.

    Ethnic people is easier, related to national people and this is the common identifier, then comes regional/continental association of peoples.

    The matter of race comes up more when migration between regions/continents occurs. Then there is perception of those of the region being of a collective race rather than someone of a distinct ethnic/national people.

    It is just how we categorise, in the first instance.

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  236. Southern Raider (1,777 comments) says:

    Jezz just watching the muppets on TV getting pissed about synthetic cannabis getting banned. Middle of the day, claiming they spend up to $400 per week. Some pregnant

    Same people who Labour, Greens and Mana claim live below the poverty line.

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  237. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, another strawman, I do not speak of Jews or Israelis in reverential terms nor require anyone else to. I just call people on their crap.

    What religious hatred do I not oppose? While not an atheist I tolerate attacks on the religions. And while of secular society their attack of it in response. Sometimes I join in when it’s the bible based ones and I know enough about them to comment. I don’t join the attacks on Islam, as I do not know enough to comment.

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  238. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    SPC, I do not favour, or dislike, people based on their race or religion alone. Which is one reason why I am opposed to a country being established on that basis. Israel. I am not anti Jews, any more than I am anti other religions. But of course Israel is not a person, a religion, or a race. It is a political zone.

    It is not just the abrahamic cults I dislike. Hindus have the awful caste system and others have their faults. Yet I have f riends from all the major religious groups, (yes even a few Jews), and enjoy hearing about their varying beliefs and cultures.

    As much of an atheist as I am, I find myself spending as much time defending certain religions from hypocrisy as I do condemning them all on KB.

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  239. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    I don’t join the attacks on Islam, as I do not know enough to comment.

    SPC, A lack of knowledge does not stop you defending gods favourites.

    Why do you assume you would be joining the “attacks” [on Islam] rather than opposing those attacks, given your admitted lack of knowledge ?

    I think you let your religious prejudices slip past your thin veneer of contrived reasonableness ;)

    Sweet dreams SPC.

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  240. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Kea bird brain , there has been an ongoing attempt to de legitimize Israel by suggesting the Jews there are Ashkenazi Jews therefore demonstrating that they are not connected with the Middle East.
    But the facts are there are three mains ethnic groups identified and classified belong in the Diaspora – Ashkenazi those of Germanic Central and Eastern Europe origin, Sephardim- those of Hispanic and Western Europe and Mizahim – those of Middle Eastern and North African origin . There are also a number of smaller sub groups.
    The proceedings of the American Academy Sciences and other studies studies demonstrate that they all share a common genetic lineage with other Semitic groups in the Middle East like the Arabic communities living in Lebanon Syria and the Palestinians themselves. Various groups like the Arabs, Palestinians, Neo Nazis and others possibly like you don’t like the conclusions arrived at by those studies for obvious reasons.

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  241. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, what is with the term gods favourites, Christians and Moslems have trumped earlier unilateralism several times over. How can one defend people from unsubstantiated attacks when not informed enough as to the facts to comment. The ignorant can join any bigotry when attacking others, but defence requires some informed comment.

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  242. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    And sweet dreams to to you kea birdbrain,

    Cantor Yaakov Lemmer Sings Zochreinu L’chaim With The Jerusalem Cantors Choir In Budapest.,

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  243. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Do you read what you link to ?
    I said storms are getting stronger!

    You are linoking to a lawyer talking about the number of storms hitting a small part of the world…. Only the usa coast. As I said you are full of shit .
    http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=104428
    September 15, 2005
    The number of Category 4 and 5 hurricanes worldwide has nearly doubled over the past 35 years, according to a study by researchers at the Georgia Institute of Technology and the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR). The change occurred as global sea-surface temperatures have increased over the same period.
    September 15, 2005

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  244. Kea (13,554 comments) says:

    stupidboy, Many of us may have ties to the region, yet we can not claim land there. The idea that they lived there a few thousand years ago, so can move back now days, is ridiculous. Take your god-goggles off and think about the implications of that ! Imagine if we all tried that. Maoris in Taiwan, or everybody, including Jews, huddled in Africa.

    The genetic studies that support your story were developed after the establishment of Israel. So were not the justification for its creation. Religious fables and supremacist nationalism were. Genetic studies show lots of us are related to the Mongols (even your precious Jews) should we all move there instead ?

    You really are a religious retard. Stop and think what you are saying. Human history, even religious history, brings us all back to the same point. Why should Jews, and ONLY Jews, be able to retreat back into the dark ages to some point of their choosing ?

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  245. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, the case cannot be retried.

    The League of Nations recognised a Palestine mandate, the UN partitioned the territory, a state was declared. It was attacked and survived the first test of any nation state its capacity to defend itself.

    DNA evidence just confirms their ethnic people story behind the original advocacy for this nation state. As for Jewish migration, all nations are sovereign over their immigration policy.

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  246. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    kea bird brain , Re Azan ok but a bit squawkery like. If you are married do you require you missus to wear this,

    http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=burqa+images&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=1670&bih=853&tbm=isch&imgil=gcE7aRNwbifG_M%253A%253Bhttp%253A%252F%2

    :

    And if you have young daughters do carry or have carried them around in a sack .

    Just asking .

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  247. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Kea, as to the injustice and how it could occur – the Ottomon empire enabled the early settlement for economic reasons, then the British empire supported the Zionist cause to get occupation by mandate – with a continuing role for the empire to maintain the local peace between the two parties (and presence in the oil region). It was a time when the locals and Arabs in general had no nation state self government status from which to mount effective resistance.

    At the popular level, national peoples self government across Europe was very in before and after WW1, and Zionism had placed the Jews in the mix (but not the Kurds).

    They just needed the British to go. And via the UN vote this happened.

    In many ways the original Christian Zionism was that of the British empire, but the Jewish nationalists played the liberation struggle against colonial power card to win out.

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  248. Left Right and Centre (3,007 comments) says:

    Janika Ter Ellen – on The Paul Henry Show. Best dressed woman reading the news in NZ. Very well done. You see – it’s not that hard to get it right, eh ?

    She looks really really good. It’s a miracle. A well-dressed woman reading the news who isn’t wearing weird womanreader haute couture garb.age.

    (I am so proud of ‘garb.age’. Brilliant)

    YES !!!!!!!!!

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