General Debate 3 April 2014

April 3rd, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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345 Responses to “General Debate 3 April 2014”

  1. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    The Hidden Danger of Conspiracy Theories

    “Is fluoride in the water a Communist plot? Was World War I a conspiracy of the Illuminati (or the Jews)? Is there a secret government plan to supplant the U.S. dollar with an “Amero,” a currency that includes Canada and Mexico? Was the attack on 9/11 a conspiracy by high officials in the U.S. government (or Jews)? Regardless of your personal bias or political persuasion, there is probably a conspiracy theory that appeals to you.

    A problem with conspiracy theories is that they oversimplify world events in order to find a scapegoat. In any reasonably open society, with freedom of the press and access to historical documents, it is not hard to find out the truth, or at least enough of the facts to clear up any false theory. In the world of conspiracy theories, conjecture takes the place of diligence and fear takes the place of reason. Often a particular clique of evil people is given virtual omnipotence, as if when major events, such as world wars, take place, everything happens according to plan.”

    Conspiracy Theorists Aren’t Really Skeptics

    http://www.libertymagazine.org/article/the-hidden-danger-of-conspiracy-theories

    “To believe that the U.S. government planned or deliberately allowed the 9/11 attacks, you’d have to posit that President Bush intentionally sacrificed 3,000 Americans. To believe that explosives, not planes, brought down the buildings, you’d have to imagine an operation large enough to plant the devices without anyone getting caught. To insist that the truth remains hidden, you’d have to assume that everyone who has reviewed the attacks and the events leading up to them—the CIA, the Justice Department, the Federal Aviation Administration, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, scientific organizations, peer-reviewed journals, news organizations, the airlines, and local law enforcement agencies in three states—was incompetent, deceived, or part of the cover-up.”

    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/slate-conspiracy-theorists-aren%E2%80%99t-really-skeptics.2706/

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  2. kowtow (8,443 comments) says:

    Don’t forget to adjust your clocks this weekend.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/10739277/Device-exploded-in-bombers-face-after-he-forgot-about-clocks-changing.html

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  3. The only red for me is that of Manchester United (60 comments) says:

    Delayed doing the dishes last night and decided to press the often unpressed 3 button on the remote control and watch John Campbell interview Simon Bridges. I was very impressed by Simon. He conducted himself very well and was unflustered as Campbell was waving his arms around. Bridges spoke quite clearly around the deep sea drilling. He was easy to understand and very truthful in what he was saying. Perhaps he had a bit of media training to make up for his embrassing spat with Campbell from late last year. It was good to see Bridges perform well in what has often been a awkard portfilo to handle for such a young minister.

    Mike Hosking on the other channel is proving himself to be the very sharp commentator that he is.

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  4. redqueen (562 comments) says:

    One sodding blip and the media is already declaring doom:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11231079

    Do they keep a stockpile of crap around? A single night’s movement on a market isn’t the automatic beginning of the end and previous stories were all about how a continually surging Chinese demand will keep prices up. Fonterra has bigger issues, at this point, such as an imbalance in input prices between manufactured products (butter and cheese) and milk powder. Surely that could involve more ‘in-depth analysis’?

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  5. OneTrack (3,089 comments) says:

    Kowtow – already? Damn. We should have another month at least.

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  6. CryHavoc (46 comments) says:

    ShawnLH really good post to kick off. Quite right that conspiracy theorists aren’t skeptics – conspiracy theories don’t stand up to much scrutiny, tend to ignore evidence that doesn’t suit etc.

    What bothers me is that through the climate change debate, the word “skeptic” has been assigned a new, negative meaning, when in reality, skepticism is the foundation of any good science. Real science embraces, rather than rejects, skepticism.

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  7. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Hosking is pretty good. I honestly can’t stand Campbell. He’s a smarmy git, and the fact that his inspiration for getting into journalism was the Jew hating and terrorist supporting conspiracy theorist John Pilger was never a good sign.

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  8. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    CryHavoc,

    Yes, regardless of what is going on climate wise, for some people AGW has become a new cult religion and any dissent to them must be punished.

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  9. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “One sodding blip and the media is already declaring doom:”

    One of the problems with almost 24 hour constant news coverage today is that they start making every little thing a major story to justify saying anything at all.

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  10. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Wow. Just saw on the tv an article about a prototype for the equivalent of Star Trek’s replicators, a 3D printer that makes food.

    This could be good for global hunger….and bad for weight loss. :)

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  11. Ross12 (1,425 comments) says:

    Memo to Cunliffe : Just because you tell lies all the time doesn’t mean others do the same

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/22339468/cunliffe-expects-tax-cut-in-next-budget/

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  12. Simon (721 comments) says:

    Better be tax cuts. Greedy fucking State.

    Why is there never a bidding war between parties over tax cuts? Instead its over who can grab the most and hand it over to favoured groups.

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  13. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    Shawn

    Re: ‘…a 3D printer that makes food’.

    Aren’t such things already in existence? I believe they are marketed under the ‘Brand names’ ‘Wives’ and Mothers’. :) :)

    (Steps back as hordes of outraged feminists, liberals, labour party supporters and gweens descend-upon KB)

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  14. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    @ Ross12

    It seems an odd thing for Cunliffe to say. “I’m warning you, Key is going to put more money in your pockets”

    He really is a total moron.

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  15. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “I believe they are marketed under the ‘Brand names’ ‘Wives’ and Mothers’.”

    Just showed that to my wife. She thought it was hilarious :)

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  16. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    FWIW: Red radio has new presenters for its Morning Report programme at 0600 Monday – Friday. The Presenters are Guyon Espiner and Suzie Ferguson.

    Curiously, so far I haven’t read any comment concerning these two or their politics on KB.

    Any opinions?

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  17. niggly (830 comments) says:

    More Cunliffe lies and deception, a report on Radio NZ this morning about oil exploration is saying that Labour is not satisfied with the environmental standards that the Govt has so far put in place. Considering Cunliffe and the last Labour Govt had virtually no environmental standards in place (as highlighted in the media and here only a few weeks ago) how on earth does Cunliffe come up with such nonsense?

    Then Cunliffe is quoted as saying “we would require any existing consents to move to the new higher standards to be established under a Labour led Govt”. Exactly what these higher standards are is unknown because he doesn’t say and again seeing the National Govt has already set higher standards compared to the last Labour Govt’s lack of standards, again how on earth does he come up with such nonsense?

    Despite the falsehoods and rhetoric I also picked up on Cunliffe talking out of two sides of his mouth again – the leftie mouth potentially scaring off oil industry investment and the righty mouth saying it will be ok under his new standards etc.

    Then in same interview we have Wussel Norman whinning on how the Greens will try and stop as much exploration as they can!

    Who to believe? Leftie Cunliffe? Rightie Cunliffe? Cunliffe’s presumed Co-Deputy PM, Wussel Norman? Exactly what is the message to the average working NZer in this garbled mess?

    http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20140403-0741-labour_and_greens_not_commiting_to_nationals_exploration_plans-048.mp3

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  18. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Who to believe? Leftie Cunliffe? Rightie Cunliffe? Cunliffe’s presumed Co-Deputy PM, Wussel Norman?”

    None of the above.

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  19. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    @ niggly – as someone mentioned here yesterday, the televised leaders’ debates are going to be interesting, because Cunliffe is going to face an audience that is both with him and against him. But he will only be able to deliver one message to all; what will it be?

    Helen Clark underestimated John Key in 2008. Key easily bettered Phil Goff in 2011. I doubt the prospect of going up against Cunliffe in August/September is keeping him awake at night, unless it is with excitement!

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  20. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    I also agree there has been an improvement in the 7pm TV timeslot – courtesy of Mike Hosking. For a long time we opted for other channels at 7pm at Chez Elaycee – any other channel was better than watching the walrus on One (and it’s mediocre successor) or the incessant left wing propaganda from Campbell on 3… in fact, we usually had the third (or is it the 4th?) repeat of Top Gear in the background rather than cringe along with TV1 or TV3.

    But that changed for us with the arrival of Hosking…. he is articulate / he knows how to interview people and he says it like it is. The corresponding lift in the TV1 ratings at 7pm, has come as no surprise at our place.

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  21. jcuk (686 comments) says:

    Listening to morning report, suffering from the horrible theme, is it music? I am irritated at the stupid badgering of Guyon Espiner talking over reasonable and sensible replies …. I want to hear what people have to say not Guyon Espiner … then I will decide if it makes sense or is self serving rubbish.

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  22. jcuk (686 comments) says:

    Again on Morning Report today I fail to see how a mere $150M spread across the bill payers of NZ would make much difference to the price of electrity … better it goes to the government so they can continue to keep paying the handouts which keep most from real poverty. It is pure political hype ….

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  23. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    jcuk
    I guess it depends on the purpose of Transpower. I understand it maintains and operates the national grid, with prices largely set by the Commerce Commission. Its primary purpose is not to make dividends for the government from a monopoly position. I agree that $150M is not huge, but I guess it is more about what ongoing level of surplus is likely.

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  24. jcuk (686 comments) says:

    It s3ems to be a devloping problem with both MR and the 5pm show of the reguklar front people talking over the talent … sadly even Geoff Robinson was guilty of doing ti in recent times … very irritating for this listener … I have no idea if the commercial stations do it as I never listen to them. It is a question of responsible standards in broadcasting expected of National Radio.

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  25. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/9899414/Workers-try-to-cut-up-bomb-7-killed-in-blast

    So some construction guys find an old bomb…over 200 kg …. they sell it to a scrap yard… probably to buy beer. All good sofar.

    Scrap yard they try to cut up said BOMB with a gas torch. It blows up and kills 7.

    Who wooda thunked it? :-)

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  26. big bruv (13,886 comments) says:

    Shaunlh

    I hope you do realise that you of all people should not be the one to attack the conspiracy theory nutbars.

    Given that you believe in a man was supposedly born of a virgin I would have thought that your opinion has no credibility at all.

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  27. jcuk (686 comments) says:

    Money going to the government is money going to Kiwis .. the government are kiwis … and even $150M spread out to cover the price per unit would not be noticed by the consumer … the price needs to come down in a meaningful way to help those struggling.

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  28. jcuk (686 comments) says:

    BOMB …. my sense of fairness suggests to me that after the bomb squad defused the bomb it was returned to the workers for their ‘tea fund’ or would it have gone to the bomb squad? I can see arguments both ways :)

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  29. jcuk (686 comments) says:

    Big Bruv … probably an early form of artifical insemination.

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  30. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Quite right that conspiracy theorists aren’t skeptics – conspiracy theories don’t stand up to much scrutiny, tend to ignore evidence that doesn’t suit etc.

    Speaking of ignoring evidence that doesn’t suit, what is your explanation for the 700 degree hotspots at the site of the twin towers collapse?

    A) office fires
    B) jet fuel
    C) ask ShawnLH
    D) something that wasn’t a conspiracy

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  31. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    700 degrees was easily possible from burning jet fuel. But you know that already.

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  32. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “To believe that explosives, not planes, brought down the buildings, you’d have to imagine an operation large enough to plant the devices without anyone getting caught.”

    Not credible.

    “To insist that the truth remains hidden, you’d have to assume that everyone who has reviewed the attacks and the events leading up to them—the CIA, the Justice Department, the Federal Aviation Administration, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, scientific organizations, peer-reviewed journals, news organizations, the airlines, and local law enforcement agencies in three states—was incompetent, deceived, or part of the cover-up.”

    Not credible.

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  33. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    big bruv,

    Faith in miracles is exactly that, faith.

    Conspiracy theories are not matters of spiritual faith, they are assertions about events that can be tested, and virtually all of them fail on that count.

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  34. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    700 degrees was easily possible from burning jet fuel. But you know that already.

    Jet fuel doesn’t burn continuously for days after the event. The temperature of the hotspots was measured on September 16.
    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wtc_hotspots.html

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  35. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Socio-political origins

    Christopher Hitchens represents conspiracy theories as the “exhaust fumes of democracy”,[12] the unavoidable result of a large amount of information circulating among a large number of people.

    Conspiratorial accounts can be emotionally satisfying when they place events in a readily understandable moral context. The subscriber to the theory is able to assign moral responsibility for an emotionally troubling event or situation to a clearly conceived group of individuals. Crucially, that group does not include the believer. The believer may then feel excused of any moral or political responsibility for remedying whatever institutional or societal flaw might be the actual source of the dissonance.[58] Likewise, Roger Cohen, in an op-Ed for the New York Times propounded that, “captive minds… resort to conspiracy theory because it is the ultimate refuge of the powerless. If you cannot change your own life, it must be that some greater force controls the world.”[13]

    Where responsible behavior is prevented by social conditions, or is simply beyond the ability of an individual, the conspiracy theory facilitates the emotional discharge or closure that such emotional challenges (after Erving Goffman)[citation needed] require. Like moral panics, conspiracy theories thus occur more frequently within communities that are experiencing social isolation or political dis-empowerment.

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  36. mandk (993 comments) says:

    @ Simon
    Thanks for positing that Richard Dimbleby audio on Belsen last night.
    If anything should be compulsory listening, it is that report.

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  37. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “To believe that explosives, not planes, brought down the buildings, you’d have to imagine an operation large enough to plant the devices without anyone getting caught.”

    Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns also served.
    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911security.html

    Scott Forbes, who was a senior database administrator for Fiduciary Trust, located on the 97th floor of the South Tower received a remarkable notice three weeks before the 9/11 attacks. The Port Authority of New York informed his company that there would be a “power down” on the weekend of Sept. 8 and 9, 2001. This would mean that all power would be off in the top half of the south tower for most of the weekend.

    Forbes has called this unprecedented, because to have a data centre lose power for two days requires major preparations and disruption. He reports that as part of the power down, all security cameras and security door locks were non-operational for about 36 hours.

    “Remember there were no security locks on doors or security cameras, so access was free unless a door was locked by a manual key. Seeing so many ‘strangers’ who didn’t work at the WTC was unusual,” Forbes said.
    http://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2010/10/26/trade-center-cameras-locks-electricity-turned-off-weekend-before-911/

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  38. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Jet fuel can burn up to 1517 degrees with enough oxygen.

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  39. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “To insist that the truth remains hidden, you’d have to assume that everyone who has reviewed the attacks and the events leading up to them—the CIA, the Justice Department, the Federal Aviation Administration, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, scientific organizations, peer-reviewed journals, news organizations, the airlines, and local law enforcement agencies in three states—was incompetent, deceived, or part of the cover-up.”

    The truth did not remain hidden.

    Senator Dayton said NORAD officials “lied to the American people, they lied to Congress and they lied to your 9/11 commission to create a false impression of competence, communication and protection of the American people.” He told Kean and Hamilton that if the commission’s report is correct, President Bush “should fire whoever at FAA, at NORAD … betrayed their public trust by not telling us the truth.”
    http://www.911truth.org/senator-dayton-norad-lied-about-911/

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  40. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Let’s forget for a moment that thermite doesn’t explode so the claims of hearing explosions become meaningless. The argument that there was thermite and explosives seems to be rationalization of this dilemma. Why would they use thermite which cuts steel without announcing it, then switch to explosives? To tip people off? No theory exist to explain this but the faithful simply say “We’re still working on it”. I’m sure they are.”

    “One of the arguments for thermite that conspiracy theorists use is the temperature of the fire. They say the fires at the towers weren’t hot enough to melt aluminum, which suggests they need an unnatural source for the melted aluminum. (Hint, hint) Yet, the aluminum outer skin of other airliners have melted without even hitting anything. Sparked only by friction…”

    “Air France flight 358 didn’t hit a steel building at 500 miles an hour. It didn’t even burn the fuel in the wings, yet its aluminum skin melted to the ground. It simply went off the runway and caught fire. What melted the airliner was its contents, like seats, clothing and other combustibles including chemical oxygen generators. It’s not unreasonable to conclude the airliner and contents didn’t even need the contents of the building to melt. Yet the NIST replicated the fires by burning office furniture in a controlled experiment and found the ceiling temperature to reach 1,100 degrees C.”

    “Conspiracy sites like to bring up molten metal found 6 weeks after the buildings fell to suggest a bomb must have created the effect. The explanation doesn’t go into the amount of explosive material needed because it would be an absurd amount. There is another explanation which is more plausible….

    http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

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  41. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Jet fuel can burn up to 1517 degrees with enough oxygen.

    Not for days on end in the debris of the towers.

    http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a091601hotspots

    On September 16, dozens of “hot spots” are seen, but by September 23, only four or five remain.

    “DNA in the bodies” of WTC victims “was in pretty bad shape. These bones were exposed to extreme temperatures.”

    There are pieces of steel being pulled out [of the WTC rubble] that are still cherry red. It’s like the charcoal that you put in your grill.…

    … steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated in extremely high temperatures …

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  42. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    What I find interesting, and telling, is that both Uglynut and Reid trot out the same anti-Israel conspiracy bollocks and hatred that Islamo-fascist groups like al-Qeada and various Neo-Nazi groups promote. Is it then surprising that Uglynut is so desperate to exonerate his Islamo-fascist fellow travelers from responsibility for 9/11?

    Birds of a feather…….

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  43. artemisia (242 comments) says:

    People might not agree with 1LAW4ALL but they have done the public of NZ a service with their publication of analysis of the 5259 written submissions to the Constitutional Advisory Panel.

    Summary – the analysis is nothing like the report published late last year.

    Questions. 1. Is anyone surprised? 2. Will the MSM report any of the analysis? 3. What will the government do now? (Answer to the last Q – nothing before the election.)

    More here:

    http://1law4all.kiwi.nz/2014/04/03/submissions-reveal-constitution-panels-trickery/

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  44. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Conspiracy sites like to bring up molten metal found 6 weeks after the buildings fell to suggest a bomb must have created the effect. The explanation doesn’t go into the amount of explosive material needed because it would be an absurd amount.

    Micronukes don’t require an absurd amount of material.
    http://covertoperations.blogspot.co.nz/2008/07/felipe-david-hanging-skin-and-nuclear.html

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  45. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    “What melted the airliner was its contents, like seats, clothing and other combustibles including chemical oxygen generators. It’s not unreasonable to conclude the airliner and contents didn’t even need the contents of the building to melt. Yet the NIST replicated the fires by burning office furniture in a controlled experiment and found the ceiling temperature to reach 1,100 degrees C.”

    Good point Shawn. Plastic burns for ages. What I’ve always wondered about is, where are the whistleblowers? The Edward Snowdens with the evidence?
    Big conspiracies usually fail because someone talks. We’ve seen none of this and certainly no proof put forward.

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  46. calendar girl (1,232 comments) says:

    Germany’s first legislated “minimum wage” is set at EU8.50 per hour, (about NZ$13.70): http://www.bbc.com/news/business-26851906 .

    Our very own Rev Waldegrave should get himself over there with his personal minimum wage template, and sort out those stingy Germans. The media, trade unions and Labour / Greens have all applauded his work here. Why wouldn’t the German nation be equally grateful for his expertise and input? They may even nominate him for the Nobel Prize for Economics.

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  47. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    What I find interesting, and telling, is that both Uglynut and Reid trot out the same anti-Israel conspiracy bollocks and hatred that Islamo-fascist groups like al-Qeada and various Neo-Nazi groups promote.

    ShawnLH is lying again. I’m anti-Zionist, not anti-Israel. AFAIK Reid isn’t anti-Israel either.

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  48. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    ” I’m anti-Zionist, not anti-Israel. AFAIK Reid isn’t anti-Israel either.”

    This is a meaningless distinction. Israel is the result of Zionism.

    And it is also what al-Qaeda claim as well. Many Neo-Nazi groups have adopted the claim that “oh no, we don’t hate Jews, we just hate Zionists.” It’s called hiding because your a sniveling coward.

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  49. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Anti-Zionist? You oppose the foundation of the state of Israel? You would like to see that reversed?

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  50. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Plastic burns for ages.

    Not for days at 700 degrees centigrade it doesn’t.

    What I’ve always wondered about is, where are the whistleblowers?

    Like Sibel Edmonds, you mean?
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/whos-afraid-of-sibel-edmonds/

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  51. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    What a wimpy, PC country we have become is shown again by the backdown of Rachel Smalley, after she accidentally let her views go on air: that NZ women are in effect fat arsed.

    How trivial a slip! How human! How entertaining! But how disgusting that Smalley, obviously pressed by public reaction (and through it probably employer reaction), has had to kowtow to the big ladies and grovel before a fat, PC nation.

    Rachel is okay. If she was allowed to express her opinions openly, I’d listen to her station. And it would be good if more NZ women were as in as good a shape as she appears to be.

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  52. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Anti-Zionist? You oppose the foundation of the state of Israel? You would like to see that reversed?

    It’s a delicate situation. The Zionists have a nuclear weapons facility at Dimona, and continue to have significant influence, both within the media and within the Obama administration.

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  53. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Avoiding the questions again, Ugly? What exactly does opposition to Zionism mean?

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  54. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Swap Jews for Zionists and Uglynut’s statements would be more honest. We all know what he means. Jews are to blame. Jews carried out 9/11. Jews control the media. Jews control the US government (ZOG, Zionist Occupied Government, a favorite theme of Neo-Nazis).

    It’s the old hate dressed up in new clothes.

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  55. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Ugly
    I read your link to Sibel Edmonds and there was no evidence produced that supports a conspiracy to blow up the twin towers. Just the usual spy vs spy stuff.

    Edit- brave woman for speaking out though

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  56. wreck1080 (3,905 comments) says:

    “The case of an elderly woman who became embedded in a couch with maggots covering her leg wounds has prompted a warning not to turn a blind eye to elder abuse.”

    There have been cases like this before. My mum is a nurse and she had a very similar story back in the 90’s where this woman had been left sitting in a chair and basically could not leave this chair. She’d grown facial hair, gone toilet all over herself, had maggots in her legs. This recent story was eerily similar although I think in that case it was the womans husband who could not cope.

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  57. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I read your link to Sibel Edmonds and there was no evidence produced that supports a conspiracy to blow up the twin towers.

    She’s Turkish, and one of her core issues was the apparent nefarium going between the US and Turkey. This relationship has apparently been an ongoing thing, with the revelation that Ahmet Davutoğlu referred to US secretary of state John Kerry in the apparent context of getting approval for a false flag strategy.

    She hasn’t said much about 9/11, but the fact that she was working for the FBI in the days after the event puts her in a very good position for reporting the issues within the US intelligence community at the time.

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  58. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    But back to the Zionists, Ugly. What exactly does your opposition to Zionism mean?

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  59. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Swap Jews for Zionists and Uglynut’s statements would be more honest. We all know what he means. Jews are to blame. Jews carried out 9/11. Jews control the media. Jews control the US government (ZOG, Zionist Occupied Government, a favorite theme of Neo-Nazis).

    Fuck off, you lying sack of shit.

    The Jews have borne much of the brunt of the evil of the Zionist regime. It is standard Zionist M.O. to conflate Jews and Zionists as being the same thing.

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  60. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    If you are opposed to the actions of the government of Israel, that is one thing. Anti-Zionism is another, and implies opposition to the existence of the state of Israel.

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  61. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “The Jews have borne much of the brunt of the evil of the Zionist regime. It is standard Zionist M.O. to conflate Jews and Zionists as being the same thing.”

    Oh cripes, this is just lunacy taken to all new heights. Zionism is a JEWISH movement you moron.

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  62. publicwatchdog (2,593 comments) says:

    Good moaning Kiwibloggers :)

    FYI

    (My comment – yet to be published).

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/auckland-rescue-helicopter-trust-loses-court-battle-funding-board-sf-154157

    (“Although the helicopter trust agreed to drop further legal battles, it hasn’t dropped its complaint to Controller and Auditor-General Lyn Provost asking her to investigate the operations of the funding board, going back to 2009.”)
    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Don’t hold your breath waiting for NZ Auditor-General Lyn Provost to do anything – that’s my experience and considered opinion:

    Seen this?

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/presented/petitions/50DBHOH_PET3196_1/petition-of-penelope-mary-bright-and-13-others-that-the

    Petition of Penelope Mary Bright and 13 others

    That the House conduct an urgent inquiry into why New Zealand Auditor-General Lyn Provost did not disclose that she was a shareholder in Sky City Entertainment Group Ltd at the time she declined to conduct an urgent investigation into the failure of the Organised and Financial Crime Agency of New Zealand to carry out ‘due diligence’ on the increased risk of money-laundering arising from the New Zealand International Convention Centre (Bill) 2013.

    Petition number: 2011/101
    Presented by: Denis O’Rourke
    Date presented: 12 March 2014
    Referred to: Finance and Expenditure Committee
    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Why have there not been any MAN ON THE MOON headlines about this development – given that New Zealand is ‘perceived’ to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ – (and all that garbage) ?

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

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  63. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    Yeh, its pissing down. heavy rain yehaa

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  64. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Ugly
    Fires are harder to put out than you think.
    Here’s Dr of Engineering Jeremy Clarkson trying to put out a fire.
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C3GWgBXsqeg

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  65. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    What exactly does your opposition to Zionism mean?

    The word Zion is a mispronunciation of the Hebrew word TzYWN, which can refer to the city of David. A mispronunciation of Hebrew can be a shibboleth, something that can be used to distinguish an adversary.

    The word “satan” is a mispronunciation of the Hebrew word ShTeN, meaning adversary. There are symbolic connections between the core beliefs of the Zionists and the “synagogue of satan” associated with the false Jews of the book of Revelation.

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  66. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    No Ugly, what does YOUR opposition to Zionism mean. I get that you thinks Zionists are Satanists. Are you opposed to specific actions of the Israeli government, or do you doubt the right of Israel to exist?

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  67. publicwatchdog (2,593 comments) says:

    Perhaps some Kiwibloggers have not yet seen this?

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    I respectfully suggest that 2,176 architects and engineers might have some idea about buildings and what causes them to fall down?

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

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  68. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Great, Penny is a truther too. What really happened to the WTC? Did they forget to pay their rates? You are joining distinguished company here at Kiwiblog. Penny, meet your best friends Ugly and Reid.

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  69. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, translit. Tsiyonut) is the national movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the creation of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the Land of Israel.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

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  70. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Zionism is a JEWISH movement you moron.

    You’re a lying sack of shit, ShawnLH.

    http://www.truetorahjews.org/zionism

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  71. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    First Uglynut, then Max Coyle, now Penny.

    Did someone leave the door to a psychiatric institution open?

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  72. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Sure Penny, our history is full of examples of two large jets flying into a building demonstrating what would actually happen so they have a large source of knowledge to draw from to base their comments on.

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  73. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Shawn
    That Wikipedia article appears to have missed the bit about Zionists being Satanists.

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  74. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Uglynut,

    No wonder a judge ordered a psych evaluation for you. Tell me, what color is the sky on your planet?

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  75. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “That Wikipedia article appears to have missed the bit about Zionists being Satanists.”

    Yeah, funny that. Perhaps the reptilian shapeshifter’s control Wikipedia as well.

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  76. SGA (1,022 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 10:59 am

    “The Jews have borne much of the brunt of the evil of the Zionist regime. It is standard Zionist M.O. to conflate Jews and Zionists as being the same thing.”
    Oh cripes, this is just lunacy taken to all new heights. Zionism is a JEWISH movement you moron.

    Yes… but not all Jews are necessarily Zionists, I believe (which may, or not, be his point).

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  77. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Petition of Penelope Mary Bright and 13 others…

    [gulp] About the same number of people were at the coffee shop this morning – at 7.30am!

    Just saying….

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  78. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    No SGA, his point is very, very different.

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  79. Rowan (2,324 comments) says:

    I think its far easier to have some sort of faith in religion as opposed to the being a total atheist and believing in nothing, whats more probable that the earth was created by intelligent design rather than by the ‘big bang’ or random coincidence as the atheist would have you believe, that to me certainly takes a lot more believing than various aspects of the bible such as the virgin birth example put up by big blouse earlier.

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  80. Akaroa (557 comments) says:

    Hey Jack 5 at 1029!!

    Hear hear!! When I heard about the hyper-critical reaction to Rachel Smalley’s stated personal opinion I had bad thoughts about how meek, mild and non-controversial some elements in our society evidently want us all to become.

    You know, ‘Don’t say anything that anyone, anywhere, at any time in the future might possibly consider quasi-offensive or politically incorrect”

    Pah! A plague on all their houses, I say!

    Fortunately I’m of an age where I can still speak my mind or make a non-PC joke without some prissy busybody’s wail of objection bothering me! . Its a rough, tough, tell-it-like-it-is World that I and a lot of others grew up in – (World War 2 in Europe anyone?) – and I’m not about to bow to some latter-day prissy moron looking for a shadow to jump at.

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  81. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

    Wikipedia is connected to the disinformation site wikileaks.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/jimmy-wales-contradicts-the-rest-of-the-internet
    http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

    As examples of the corruption within Wikipeda, consider how the defintions of common law and bribery contract the definitions in Black’s dictionary, and how they were a platform for AGW alarmism:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100020515/climategate-the-corruption-of-wikipedia/

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  82. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Ugly, your a very disturbed and misinformed nutjob. Get help. Soon.

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  83. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Nice.

    looks like I am for a tank top up.

    Soon as well.

    http://www.metservice.com/maps-radar/rain-radar/all-new-zealand

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  84. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yes… but not all Jews are necessarily Zionists, I believe (which may, or not, be his point).

    No, my point is that Zionists are false Jews.

    “It would be an excellent idea to call in respectable, accredited anti-Semites as liquidators of property. To the people they would vouch for the fact that we do not wish to bring about the impoverishment of the countries that we leave. At first they must not be given large fees for this; otherwise we shall spoil our instruments and make them despicable as ‘stooges of the Jews.’ Later their fees will increase, and in the end we shall have only Gentile officials in the countries from which we have emigrated. The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies.” (The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl. Vol. 1, edited by Raphael Patai, translated by Harry Zohn, page 83-84)

    http://www.truetorahjews.org/herzl

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  85. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ugly, I’m still waiting for you to explain what your opposition to Zionism entails. I realise that there is some Jewish religious opposition to Zionism, but I’m interested in your practical expression of what anti-Zionism means.

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  86. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    From a reliable, JEWISH web site.

    “The term “Zionism” was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum. Its general definition means the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel.”

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/zionism.html

    “Ugly, I’m still waiting for you to explain what your opposition to Zionism entails.”

    In Uglynut’s case I suspect finishing what his friend Adolf started.

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  87. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly, your a very disturbed and misinformed nutjob. Get help. Soon.

    You post irrelevant and misleading information, i.e. “Jet fuel can burn up to 1517 degrees with enough oxygen.”, but I’m the nutjob?

    WTC Fires All But Defeated – December 19, 2001

    Firefighters have extinguished almost all but the last remnants of underground fires that have burned at the World Trade Center site for more than three months since the Sept. 11 terrorist attack. The fires that began with the Sept. 11 attacks had been strong enough that firetrucks had to spray a nearly constant jet of water on them. At times, the flames slowed the work of clearing the site. “You couldn’t even begin to imagine how much water was pumped in there,” said Tom Manley of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, the largest fire department union. “It was like you were creating a giant lake.” [CBS News]

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wtc_fires_911.html

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  88. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    No, no, no Ugly, I think we should clarify your ‘anti-Zionism’ first before going on to more specific allegations of conspiracy.

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  89. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Answer Mike’s question Ugly. Grow a pair and front up.

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  90. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Answer Mike’s question Ugly. Grow a pair and front up.

    I don’t owe him any answers. You, on the other hand, have been caught misleading people about the nature of the fires.

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  91. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Conspiracy theories have floated around for generations with new ones popping up all the time. Here is a list counting down the World’s 15 biggest conspiracy theories of all time.

    15. Life on Mars and the Annunaki:

    Ever since photo’s of Mars were taken from the Viking orbiter in 1976, the answer to the question of if there was life on Mars seems to be yes. Photos depicting an enormous face staring up from the surface proved to be eerie. The pictures also include a sphinx and a 5-sided pyramid. When Zecharia Sitchin released findings of tablets in what used to be Sumeria, Sitchin describes the writings telling of the Anunnaki, a superior alien race that came down and taught the Sumerians new technology. Many speculate that the formations on Mars surface were built by the Anunnaki which also opened up the idea that the great pyramids were built by aliens using humans as slave workers.

    14. Who really wrote the plays of Shakespeare?:

    Since there is very little historical information about Shakespeare, conspiracy theorists believe that the actor could not have possibly written the plays but rather was used as the author to cover up the real identity of the brilliant poet. Many believe that Shakespeare himself could not of had the education to write such profound works. That the most plausible author could be either Christopher Marlowe, Ben Johnson, Francis Bacon or Sir Walter Raleigh.

    13. Vaccination and autism:

    Celebrity Jenny McCarthy has fought this fight for years and even Robert Kennedy Jr. voiced his opinion saying the politician believes there is a conspiracy between scientists and the vaccine industry to hide the truth about the ingredients in vaccine shots. McCarthy has said that mother’s from all over the world who have children with autism have said for years that, “We vaccinated our baby and something happened.”

    12. Digital television and subliminal advertising:

    Many conspiracy theorists believe that cameras and microphones have been secretly built into televisions so that the government could spy on people. Another theory along with this one is that subliminal messages are being broadcast to influence the viewers with what the government and big industries want people to believe.

    11. Global Warming:

    Global warming has been a hot topic ever since Al Gore brought it to the world’s stage but many theorists believe this to be a ruse in order to control the populations way of life, raise taxes and intended to lead to more controlling, tyrannical government.

    10. The Holocaust:

    Believe it or not there are many theorists out there who believe that the Holocaust is a hoax. Conspiracy theories claim that the Nazis never murdered over 6 million Jews during World War II but claims of the Holocaust was conspired by the Jews to advance their own interests and to justify the creation of Israel. The deniers claim that any deaths which occurred in concentration camps were from starvation or disease and not because of Nazi policy to exterminate the Jews. The Diary of Anne Frank the conspiracy theorists believe is a forgery.

    9. The Shroud of Turin:

    Ever since the Shroud of Turin was brought forth to the public, it has caused much controversy. Believed to be the cloth which covered the body of Christ, some say that it proves that Jesus survived the crucifixion and that the Vatican had tampered with the carbon dating results in order to protect the faith. Of course the Vatican denies that but the discussion of its authenticity continues.

    8. The AIDS virus:

    Conspiracy theorists believe that the AIDS virus was created in a laboratory and injected into homosexuals and African-Americans by ruse of a hepatitis-B experiment back in 1978. Thabo Mbeki, the former South African President, said that the scientific claims that the disease originated in Africa is false and that the U.S. government actually created the virus in a lab and is trying to place the blame on Africa. Theorists believe that the AIDS virus was created by the CIA to rid the country of homosexuals and African-Americans and to weaken the groups numbers.

    7. The death of Princess Diana:

    Soon as the news spread of Princess Diana’s death, conspiracies were popping up everywhere. All of which claiming that the Princess was murdered by the Royal Family to stop Diana from releasing embarrassing and damaging information about ex-husband, Prince Charles. In 2013, Scotland Yard announced that it was reopening the case of Diana’s death on the basis of a claim that the fatal car accident was set up by the British Special Forces. Though the British and French governments have ruled Diana’s death as an accident, the fuel behind the conspiracy theories that Diana was killed to silence the Princess, remains.

    6. The New World Order:

    The Illuminati and the Freemasons are two of the many secret society’s that are out there. Theorists believe that there is a New World Order that is going to come into effect and run the world under one worldwide government. Signs, like the pyramid and eye on the American dollar bill is said to be the work of the Illuminati. Many believe that the Freemasons are behind the scheme to take over the world.

    5. The Moon landing:

    Though NASA has ousted all claims that the moon landing is a fake, theorists believe that it was all staged because NASA desperately needed the glory of such an event and that the U.S. refused to lose the space race with to the Russians. Many believe that the technology it would take to actually land on the moon was not present back in the 1960′s.

    4. Roswell:

    In 1947 a press release was issued from the Roswell Army Air Field claiming that a “flying disc: had been recovered from a ranch in New Mexico. Rumors of bodies being found at the crash site caused many theorists to believe that the U.S. government is keeping the truth of aliens from the public. Later, the military took back its claim and said that, in fact, it was just a weather balloon that was recovered and that the “bodies” were actually test dummies. The amount of security surrounding Area 51 is proof enough to many that the government is definitely hiding a flying saucer and bodies of aliens from the public.

    3. 9/11:

    Though terrorists of Al-Qaeda have claimed responsibility for the attacks that occurred on Sept.11, 2001 many believe that the U.S. government knew of the upcoming attack and did nothing. Conspiracy theorists believe that the way the two towers went down proves that the U.S. government either planned the attack or aided in the complete destruction of the towers to fuel hatred and to justify the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    2. The JFK assassination:

    On November 22, 1963, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated. Theorists abound claim that there were more than one shooter and that Lee Harvey Oswald was not responsible for the sole killing of the President. Some believe that Oswald was either a patsy or worked for the FBI, KGB or the mafia. To this day the debate continues about how many shooters there were, where the shooters were and who was really behind the assassination of President Kennedy.

    1. Jesus and Mary Magdalene:

    The idea that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were actually married has been a hot topic of debate. Though glorified from The DaVinci Code, the basis of the theory comes from a document found in 1945 called The Gospel of Philip. The Gnostic Gospel says that Jesus had preferred the companion of Mary over any other disciple and that Jesus would kiss Mary on the mouth. The Gospel called Mary Jesus’ companion and is still being disputed today by religiou

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  92. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Please answer my question Ugly. I’m really interested, as I think it might go towards the motivation behind some of the views you express here.

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  93. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “I don’t owe him any answers.”

    Coward. You won’t say what you really think will you, far too gutless. Another yellow belly coward who want’s to spout whatever crap you like but when challenged runs away.

    So much for your credibility.

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  94. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I’m not going to let you deflect attention away from ShawnLH’s deceit. If it can be shown that the Zionists had a hand in 9/11 then my answer will be more meaningful.

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  95. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Fuck you, ShawnLH, you won’t address the issue of the fires.

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  96. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    But who do you mean by ‘Zionists’? Agents of the Israeli government? ZOG? Jews in general? That’s why I think it is important for you to clarify your ‘anti-Zionism’.

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  97. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    Oh dear
    Ugly’s in full blown conspiracy mode today.

    A massive massive office building burns hot for days after a colossal amount of accelerants are applied in a near atomized state and he quires why it burnt so hot?
    Seriously??????

    A friggin house fire can blister the paint off a firetruck at 10 metres. Or so a senior firefighter was telling me, maybe he is part of the vast plot?

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  98. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Thomas Eagar, an engineering professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, explains why: steel loses 50 percent of its strength at 1,200 degrees F; 90,000 liters of jet fuel ignited other combustible materials such as rugs, curtains, furniture and paper, which continued burning after the jet fuel was exhausted, raising temperatures above 1,400 degrees F and spreading the inferno throughout each building.”

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fahrenheit-2777/

    Done. Now answer Mike’s question.

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  99. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “A massive massive office building burns hot for days after a colossal amount of accelerants are applied in a near atomized state and he quires why it burnt so hot?
    Seriously??????”

    Yup. Ugly thinks he knows more than fire experts and structural engineers.

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  100. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    @Ugly 11:48

    It was the debris from 2 massive massive buildings and you wounder why i took so long to put out?
    This fact does not support your conspiracy theory, it is true of any large fire.

    So like the next forest fire that takes days to put out is also a vast conspiracy using colossal amounts of thermite?

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  101. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Is this the group therapy room?

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  102. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    A massive massive office building burns hot for days after a colossal amount of accelerants are applied in a near atomized state and he quires why it burnt so hot?

    Atomized accelerants don’t burn for month afterwards. Also, most of the fireball energy from the second crash was outside the building.

    The hostpots where 700 degrees centigrade after five days, and it had been raining. Fireballs don’t do that.

    A friggin house fire can blister the paint off a firetruck at 10 metres.

    House fires don’t burn for days on end at a temperature hot enough to melt aluminium.

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  103. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    This explains it well. Shawn is siding with the same people who executed Jesus, the very same ones who incited the crowd to condemn Jesus and release Barabbas, the very same people Jesus drove out of the temple. And he doesn’t know it. This is why he’s a useful idiot. The trouble is, he’s also arrogant, but that’s a quality shared by his fellow travellers, like Dick Cheney.

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  104. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Look Ugly, today it’s 9/11 you’re on about. Tomorrow it’ll be Betty Windsor and the Canadian ‘genocide’. Or Flight MH 370 on Diego Garcia. Or Nazi UFOs in Antarctica. I’m interested in the underlying pathology. Hence my questions about the Zionism thing. Couldn’t you give me a few more clues here?

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  105. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Done. Now answer Mike’s question.

    The issue was that you posted irrelevant and misleading information, i.e. “Jet fuel can burn up to 1517 degrees with enough oxygen.”
    You responded with more misleading information, i.e. that an “inferno” can soften steel.

    Your problem is the witness testimony of “rivers of molten steel”, evidence of steel fused with concrete, and the extraordinary amount energy required to keep fires burning for months.

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  106. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “The hostpots where 700 degrees centigrade after five days, and it had been raining. Fireballs don’t do that.”

    Reference someone with a relevant degree from a credible institution for that claim.

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  107. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Welcome right now

    conspirowhacky #11

    listed above.

    Your thoughts?

    :wink:

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  108. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    I see U T your claiming it seems that the “Hot Spots” found weeks after the 9/11 attacks somehow demonstrate the presence of molten steel which suggest Thermite and explosives consistent with controlled demolition. Nothing could be further from the truth.,

    “Molten steel was found in the basement seven weeks later and jet fuel can’t melt steel.
    Rebuttal: There is no documented evidence of the presence of actually-melted steel at ground zero. The molten material noted in the 911 Commission report was “slag”, not a molten metal. Most of the reports of “molten steel” found at ground zero were merely references to obviously red-hot solid steel. Even if they actually found “molten” metal, aluminum (which the planes were made out of) melts well under the temperature of jet fuel (pure aluminum melts at 660C, jet fuel burns around 980C[14] going up to 2,200C[15][16][17]). In addition, the mix of jet fuel, plastics, rugs, curtains etc. may burn hot enough to melt aluminum.
    Additionally, the melting point of steel is within the range of 1425-1540C[18], well outside the temperatures recorded at Ground Zero in the weeks following the attacks. What conspiracy theorists fail to note is that steel thermally expands while it remains strong and thus fire rapidly destroys uninsulated steel structures, and steel begins to lose its structural integrity (and red hot steel itself burns in air or in the presence of steam) at well below its melting point, or 700-820C, well within temperatures recorded at ground zero in the weeks following the attacks). Meanwhile, molten steel is not typically found at the site of buildings that have actually been demolished using “explosives” to sever columns. Also, the first law of thermodynamics prevents even the super hot molten product of thermite charges from remaining molten long after thermite ignition. Therefore, whatever molten materials were observed at ground zero in the weeks following the collapses, that molten material was not originally present and molten at the time of the collapses (it began to melt after the collapses, not before the collapses).
    That all being said, a 767 Family plane can carry up to 90,000 Liters of fuel in it’s hull. It is estimated the two planes had about 28,000 Liters left in their tanks which is spread all over the hull from the wings to the fuselage (for ballast and balance control). The crash and shredding of the plane hardware caused the fuel to detonate almost instantly. Since it was not a controlled burn it is likely to hit the highest end of the combustion scale at it’s core causing simultaneous ignition of anything around that was combustible and causing severe damage to load bearing pillars.”

    The” slag” referred to pretty obviously refers to a combination of materials found inside WTC including aluminum , plastics, wood , veneer etc, etc.

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  109. mandk (993 comments) says:

    @ Griffith

    1. Jesus and Mary Magdalene is so 1960s.

    We’re required to believe nowadays that Jesus was homosexual.

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  110. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “This explains it well. Shawn is siding with the same people who executed Jesus,”

    Ah, the old blood libel canard. A standard with Jew haters. I’m siding with Jewish people in general Reichsführer Reid. Jews in general are not responsible for the death of Jesus.

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  111. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Hey stephie, you should credit RationalWiki when you use it.

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  112. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    So Ugly, Thomas Eagar, an engineering professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, is wrong, and your right?

    And your university degree is in……?

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  113. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    I see U T your claiming it seems that the “Hot Spots” found weeks after the 9/11 attacks somehow demonstrate the presence of molten steel which suggest Thermite and explosives consistent with controlled demolition. Nothing could be further from the truth.,

    “Molten steel was found in the basement seven weeks later and jet fuel can’t melt steel.
    Rebuttal: There is no documented evidence of the presence of actually-melted steel at ground zero. The molten material noted in the 911 Commission report was “slag”, not a molten metal. Most of the reports of “molten steel” found at ground zero were merely references to obviously red-hot solid steel. Even if they actually found “molten” metal, aluminum (which the planes were made out of) melts well under the temperature of jet fuel (pure aluminum melts at 660C, jet fuel burns around 980C[14] going up to 2,200C[15][16][17]). In addition, the mix of jet fuel, plastics, rugs, curtains etc. may burn hot enough to melt aluminum.
    Additionally, the melting point of steel is within the range of 1425-1540C[18], well outside the temperatures recorded at Ground Zero in the weeks following the attacks. What conspiracy theorists fail to note is that steel thermally expands while it remains strong and thus fire rapidly destroys uninsulated steel structures, and steel begins to lose its structural integrity (and red hot steel itself burns in air or in the presence of steam) at well below its melting point, or 700-820C, well within temperatures recorded at ground zero in the weeks following the attacks). Meanwhile, molten steel is not typically found at the site of buildings that have actually been demolished using “explosives” to sever columns. Also, the first law of thermodynamics prevents even the super hot molten product of thermite charges from remaining molten long after thermite ignition. Therefore, whatever molten materials were observed at ground zero in the weeks following the collapses, that molten material was not originally present and molten at the time of the collapses (it began to melt after the collapses, not before the collapses).
    That all being said, a 767 Family plane can carry up to 90,000 Liters of fuel in it’s hull. It is estimated the two planes had about 28,000 Liters left in their tanks which is spread all over the hull from the wings to the fuselage (for ballast and balance control). The crash and shredding of the plane hardware caused the fuel to detonate almost instantly. Since it was not a controlled burn it is likely to hit the highest end of the combustion scale at it’s core causing simultaneous ignition of anything around that was combustible and causing severe damage to load bearing pillars.”

    The” slag” referred to pretty obviously refers to a combination of combustible materials found inside WTC including aluminum , plastics, wood , veneer etc, etc.
    BTW , aluminum does burn and can glow red as the burnt out fuselage of Air France Flight 358 graphically demonstrates.

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9-11_conspiracy_theories

    Flight 358,

    http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=Flight+358&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=BZ48U5OINq-iiAeFnoDYBA&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=1670&bih=853#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=PklDxcOYd3DIZM%253A%3BqJaRRnDUsIT4gM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fdeicinginnovations.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2012%252F08%252FA05H0002_photo_07_lg.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fdeicinginnovations.com%252F%253Fp%253D3082%3B450%3B338

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  114. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Couldn’t you give me a few more clues here?

    Only after you concede that ShawnLH is misleading people abut the energy necessary to return in the observed temperatures and duration of the fires.

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  115. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    OK… sorry everyone but I will try and make this my last conspiracy nutter debunking post.

    @ Ugly
    As I said the debris pile was LARGE so it held in the heat, a shit load of heat, the kind of heat that ‘laughed at water and called it a silly thing’.

    The Earth is large. It is still molten under the crust from heat generated during it’s formation and pounding by asteroids millions of years ago.

    Therefore big fire + material = slow to cool down.

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  116. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    But all your crazy 9/11 stuff contains Points Refuted A Thousand Times (PRATT). As I said, I’m interested in the underlying pathology.

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  117. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Reference someone with a relevant degree from a credible institution for that claim.

    The truth doesn’t depend on your idea of what is relevant and credible.

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  118. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    As I said the debris pile was LARGE so it held in the heat, a shit load of heat, the kind of heat that ‘laughed at water and called it a silly thing’.

    Where did this shitload of heat come from, hot enough to melt steel and fuse it with concrete? The most probably explanation is micronukes, which is consistent with Felipe David’s injuries.

    The Earth is large. It is still molten under the crust from heat generated during it’s formation and pounding by asteroids millions of years ago.

    That doesn’t work. There is no evidence of cooling of the Earth’s surface consistent with a reduction in temperature of the magma. The reason why magma is still hot after all this time is one of the mysteries of conventional science.

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  119. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Rebuttal: There is no documented evidence of the presence of actually-melted steel at ground zero.

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  120. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Ah, the old blood libel canard. A standard with Jew haters. I’m siding with Jewish people in general Reichsführer Reid. Jews in general are not responsible for the death of Jesus.

    No the people in the crowd weren’t responsible Shawn. But their leaders were. That’s why I said you were siding with them, and I told you who they were, back then. That’s why I didn’t say anything about the Jewish people, I was talking about the leaders. And it’s the same today as it was then, you fool. It’s their leaders who are bringing them to destruction, but you’re such an idiot that you can’t even see it.

    You need to ask yourself the question: why does Israel not bow to God? Why does it for example not honour the sabbath, why does it treat the Palestinians so badly, why doesn’t it serve as an example of Godliness to the world? Because it doesn’t, at all, does it.

    The reason is, Israel is ruled by people who set her up in order to destroy her in order to show the world God doesn’t exist because He didn’t protect her, in order that the anti-Christ will rule from Jerusalem. That’s why Rothschild, a satanist, created it in 1946 and that’s why Israel acts so badly, so that the world will cheer “good job” when the Arabs invade her because Israel’s leaders started a war with Iran. That’s the plan, it’s a setup and always has been. That’s why they did 911, to start the bogus war on terror which ushers in WWIII, the war between Christians and Muslims, in which both sides are annihilated and which stops when the anti-Christ rebuilds the temple and pretends he’s a man of peace. Sound familiar?

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  121. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    OMG 9/11 nutters?

    ya know how Dime knows Bush wasn’t responsible?

    Well, apparently Bush is an idiot.

    Apparently Clinton is a genius.

    Is Dime expected to believe that the genius couldnt get sucked off in his own office and get away with it? but the moron could make 9/11 happen without a peep?

    Piss off

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  122. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “The truth doesn’t depend on your idea of what is relevant and credible.”

    BULLSHIT.
    It does depend on people who have degrees and relevant knowledge, which YOU don’t. You cannot reference anyone because your talking utter shit. Your claiming that your more credible than an expert from M.I.T.

    That is just utter wank.

    You cannot prove your case or even make your case by referencing anyone credible. Your a lying bullshit artist, who just pulls crap out of your ass.

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  123. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I see Reid’s on full fruitcake setting today. It’s not the evil Jews, it’s just the evil leaders of the Jews.

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  124. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Reid, neither you nor Uglynut has a clue about Judaism. Your just a couple of closet Nazi’s wanking off on the net.

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  125. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Bu the way, I already know that some ultra-Orthodox Jews do not like Zionism. That does not make them real Jews in comparison to other Jews. Being Jewish is about ethnicity. It means you have a Jewish mother. The degree of religious observance, or views about Zionism, makes zero difference to that.

    Jesus was not executed by Zionists. Zionism did not exist then.

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  126. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    Reid, ” Sound familiar .?

    Sounds utter bollux.! e.g,

    Rothschild Conspiracy allegations amd myths

    http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4311

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  127. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Is Dime expected to believe that the genius couldnt get sucked off in his own office and get away with it? but the moron could make 9/11 happen without a peep?

    dime, the idiot sat in a classroom reading a book upside down. That’s all he was required to do. Cheney meanwhile was in the WH Bunker directing the operation. Think Cheney is an idiot?

    BTW, would one of you please explain why Israel doesn’t bow down before God? That’s a really important question. Shawn?

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  128. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “would one of you please explain why Israel doesn’t bow down before God?”

    Israel is a secular state. Dumbass. It was founded for all Jews, regardless of religious observance. To keep them safe from people like you and Uglynut.

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  129. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Reid – If you believe 9/11 was done by the govt, thats cool. I just like to know so i can add you to the “do not read” pile with people like uglytruth, griffith etc

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  130. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Rothschild Conspiracy allegations amd myths

    Rothschild Conspiracy. Facts.

    http://iamthewitness.com/books/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/Synagogue.of.Satan/0740-1818.htm

    http://iamthewitness.com/doc/The.Rothschild.Octopus.htm

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  131. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “The truth doesn’t depend on your idea of what is relevant and credible.”

    BULLSHIT.
    It does depend on people who have degrees and relevant knowledge, which YOU don’t.

    You’re lying again, ShawnLH.

    The truth can by presented by witnesses, this is part of the due process of law.

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  132. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Dime, generally agree, though I would not put griffith in the same category myself. He’s a generally decent chap, unlike the other two.

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  133. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    dime
    Did you somehow think Reid’s stuff was credible?

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  134. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    If you believe 9/11 was done by the govt

    It wasn’t. It was done by people masquerading as government.

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  135. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    U T, If you take the trouble to read my post above I’m at pains to point out that the hot spots were not evidence of molten steel but as the 9/11 Commission pointed out were evidence of slag , a more than likely combination of molten aluminum , combustible office furniture, fittings metals and plastics, electrical wiring and fittings , carpet, vinyl etc, etc

    Done by people masquerading as Govt.? Evidence and any whistleblowers.? If not, why.?

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  136. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “The truth can by presented by witnesses, this is part of the due process of law.”

    Oh please, what utter drivel. In order to answer questions about fire heat and structural engineering, you need people who are actually properly trained and educated in those areas.

    This is just avoiding the issue of your own lack of credibility.

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  137. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Israel is a secular state. Dumbass. It was founded for all Jews, regardless of religious observance.

    Theodore Herzl was allied with anti-semitism, which is against jews, not for them.

    “It would be an excellent idea to call in respectable, accredited anti-Semites as liquidators of property. To the people they would vouch for the fact that we do not wish to bring about the impoverishment of the countries that we leave. At first they must not be given large fees for this; otherwise we shall spoil our instruments and make them despicable as ‘stooges of the Jews.’ Later their fees will increase, and in the end we shall have only Gentile officials in the countries from which we have emigrated. The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies.” (The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl. Vol. 1, edited by Raphael Patai, translated by Harry Zohn, page 83-84)

    http://www.truetorahjews.org/herzl

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  138. Ryan Sproull (7,119 comments) says:

    You need to ask yourself the question: why does Israel not bow to God? Why does it for example not honour the sabbath, why does it treat the Palestinians so badly, why doesn’t it serve as an example of Godliness to the world? Because it doesn’t, at all, does it.

    The reason is, Israel is ruled by people who set her up in order to destroy her in order to show the world God doesn’t exist because He didn’t protect her, in order that the anti-Christ will rule from Jerusalem. That’s why Rothschild, a satanist, created it in 1946 and that’s why Israel acts so badly, so that the world will cheer “good job” when the Arabs invade her because Israel’s leaders started a war with Iran. That’s the plan, it’s a setup and always has been. That’s why they did 911, to start the bogus war on terror which ushers in WWIII, the war between Christians and Muslims, in which both sides are annihilated and which stops when the anti-Christ rebuilds the temple and pretends he’s a man of peace. Sound familiar?

    This is so great.

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  139. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Reid – If you believe 9/11 was done by the govt, thats cool.

    dime, I’ve never actually bothered to find out who did it, most people who have looked at that say it was Israel, but it’s not something that particularly interests me. My position has always been that the official story is full of holes in all five incidents, the three buildings in NY, the Pentagram and the plane crash in the field and they’re not minor holes they’re major holes and there are so many of them that it’s simply impossible to believe the official story and what, therefore, should one conclude from that given that 911 ushered in the biggest geopolitical change since the end of the Cold War which “coincidently” was precisely what a US-based think tank chock full of high-level zionists had been saying was absolutely necessary to ensure America’s geostrategic supremacy?

    That’s been my position all along and why, pray tell, is that unreasonable or illogical. Unless of course you hallucinate that it simply could not have been other than what’s been officially said and that’s all there is to it. Which is what you guys are arguing, and what’s logical about that? That’s an emotional argument, not a logical one.

    Clearly the US govt had to have some awareness of it simple because you don’t do what those planes did for 2 hours in the most heavily defended airspace in the world without there being some level of complicity. There are also reports of Cheney doing what I said he did, which bear that out.

    Israel is a secular state. Dumbass. It was founded for all Jews, regardless of religious observance. To keep them safe from people like you and Uglynut.

    Shawn you keep ducking the very simple question. Why doesn’t Israel bow to God and serve as an example of God-fearing to other nations? Why? And what has God said would happen if it doesn’t do that? And does what I said above will be Israel’s fate, accord with God’s word on that matter?

    So please, answer the question. Go on.

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  140. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “The truth can by presented by witnesses, this is part of the due process of law.”

    Oh please, what utter drivel.

    In judicio non creditur nisi juratis. In law none is credited unless he is sworn. All the facts must when established, by witnesses, be under oath or affirmation. Cro. Car. 64.

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  141. Rowan (2,324 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9900612/Judge-seeks-help-in-Whale-Oil-appeal

    Does anyone (other than Slater) actually believe that Whale is a “journalist”?
    I think that he is a big mouthed bigot, journalist wannabe. He is a blogger, this does not give him privilege as is trying to claim.

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  142. Andrei (2,641 comments) says:

    LOL

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  143. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “In judicio non creditur nisi juratis.”

    Which is irrelevant to the issue. Your claiming more knowledge than an M.I.T professor. That’s just stupidity masquerading as opinion.

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  144. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    This is so great.

    Ryan you’re a man of God like Shawn. So if Shawn can’t answer the questions above, can you?

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  145. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    The Synagogue of Satan by Andre Carrington Hitchcock is rubbished here and like the link Reid posted is mostly unreferenced and un sourced ,

    http://www.amazon.com/Synagogue-Satan-Andrew-Carrington-Hitchcock/product-reviews/1930004451/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=byRankDescending

    One reviewer provides a useful source of literature and books to answer his hokum.

    “Please read instead the much more accurate, well-researched, and correct dealings with this proven-wrong subject, and get an understanding of why it was created in the first place (to sucker the masses) “:

    “Who Financed Hitler” (Pool, The Dial Press (and others), 1979)
    “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany” (William L. Shirer, Simon and Schuster, 1960).
    “Trading with the Enemy” (Charles Higham, Barnes and Noble, 1983)
    “Hitler’s Table Talk” (Adolf Hitler, London, Weidenfeld & Nicholson, 1953) also published as “Hitler’s Secret Conversations” (New York, Farrar, Straus & Young, 1953).
    “Nietzsche, Godfather of Fascism?…” (Golomb & Wistrich, Princeton University Press 2002)
    “The Beast Reawakens: Fascism’s Resurgence…” (Martin A. Lee,1999).
    “Old Nazis, the New Right, and the Republican Party…” (Russ Bellant, South End Press 1991)
    “The American Axis: Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh, and the Rise of the Third Reich” by Max Wallace.
    “The Hitler Myth” (Ian Kershaw, Oxford University Press, 1987)
    “Hitler Speaks” (Hermann Rauschning, London 1939)
    “A History of Fascism, 1914-1945″ by Stanley G. Payne
    “Nietzsche, Prophet of Nazism: The Cult of the Superman–Unveiling the Nazi Secret Doctrine”, by Taha (200

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  146. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    I did answer the question Reid. You responded with more Nazi conspiracy theory drivel.

    And Ryan is a Buddhist you moron. Look it up.

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  147. Ryan Sproull (7,119 comments) says:

    Shawn you keep ducking the very simple question. Why doesn’t Israel bow to God and serve as an example of God-fearing to other nations?

    Because no state has ever or will ever do that?

    Why? And what has God said would happen if it doesn’t do that?

    God said something would happen if a state behaved exactly like all states do? Gosh, did he happen to warn about the consequences if water freezes at below-zero temperatures?

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  148. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    U T, If you take the trouble to read my post above I’m at pains to point out that the hot spots were not evidence of molten steel but as the 9/11 Commission pointed out were evidence of slag , a more than likely combination of molten aluminum , combustible office furniture, fittings metals and plastics, electrical wiring and fittings , carpet, vinyl etc, etc

    They were evidence of molten steel because of the amount of energy required to keep them at over 700 degrees C for five days.
    Why do you have nothing to say about the lack of documentation of molten steel when the witnesses reported that it was there?

    Done by people masquerading as Govt.?

    When people commit treason they are acting unlawfully and are not part of any government.

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  149. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Because no state has ever or will ever do that?

    Iran does it Ryan. Israel, provided it obeys, are God’s chosen people. Israel therefore is required to act like that. Or bear the consequences. If you believe in the Bible that has to be your position. Otherwise you’re just like all the other atheists.

    I did answer the question Reid.

    Where? I can’t see it. You moron.

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  150. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    UT, awaiting re “the hot “spots
    Kindly oblige.

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  151. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Oh dear. I said Israel is a secular state. Which part of that plain English are you having trouble with Nazi boy?

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  152. Manolo (13,753 comments) says:

    The law of unintended intended consequences:
    http://freebeacon.com/issues/employers-say-obamacare-will-cost-them-5000-more-per-employee/

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  153. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “In judicio non creditur nisi juratis.”

    Which is irrelevant to the issue.

    In context it is relevant, liar.

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  154. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Reid, why doesn’t Singapore bow down before God? Are they part of the reptilian shapeshifter conspiracy as well?

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  155. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Oh dear. I said Israel is a secular state. Which part of that plain English are you having trouble with Nazi boy?

    The term “Israel” is ambiguous, it can refer to the people of Israel before the establishment of the Zionist state of Israel.

    But the Zionists don’t think like that.

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  156. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    I said Israel is a secular state.

    Which means they bear the consequences of disobedience to God as laid out in the Bible, doesn’t it Shawn. Which means that the scenario I laid out for their future, does accord with the Bible doesn’t it. Which means that your current position on them does not align with the Bible, doesn’t it.

    Reid, why doesn’t Singapore bow down before God? Are they part of the reptilian shapeshifter conspiracy as well?

    Is Singapore mentioned in the Bible Shawn? No? Why raise a canard? Anyone would think you were losing the argument. I’ve noticed you habitually raise canards, I’m beginning to think you’re not very bright.

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  157. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “In context it is relevant, liar.”

    No it’s not UglyNazi, it’s your usual diversionary tactic to take attention away from the fact that an M.I.T professor nailed your stupidity.

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  158. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    So much for the theory that religion can be a catalyst for peace.

    Not on KB today….

    Yikes! 8O

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  159. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    UT, awaiting re “the hot “spots

    You mean the hotspots related to the molten steel?

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  160. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    mikenmild – youre also in a pile. along with pete george. just so you know.

    not many in the “fucking awesome” pile where Dime lurks :D

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  161. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Which means they bear of disobedience to God as laid out in the Bible, doesn’t it Shawn.”

    No. Responsibility towards God lies with individuals.

    “Which means that the scenario I laid out for their future, does accord with the Bible doesn’t it.”

    Def no. Your take on Revelation is nonsense. I know this because Biblical theology is an area I have expertise in. Nothing you said is actually in Scripture.

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  162. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Hey griff, there’s one missing off your list, the “Big Oil funds climate denier networks” conspirawhacky.

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  163. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    So much for the theory that religion can be a catalyst for peace.

    Hint

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  164. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I know this because Biblical theology is an area I have expertise in.

    Says ShawnLH, the compulsive liar.

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  165. Ryan Sproull (7,119 comments) says:

    Iran does it Ryan.

    Iran acts in its own interests, the same as any other state.

    Israel, provided it obeys, are God’s chosen people. Israel therefore is required to act like that. Or bear the consequences. If you believe in the Bible that has to be your position. Otherwise you’re just like all the other atheists.

    I don’t believe in the Bible, Reid, and Israel isn’t magic. Israel acts in Israel’s interests, the same as any other state. It fucks over the Palestinians for reasons of state. Yes, there are undoubtedly some Israeli political elements who share your kind of belief that Israel is special, and in their case that they have a special divine obligation to fuck over the locals. But that’s just people being people, as people tend to be.

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  166. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Def no. Your take on Revelation is nonsense. I know this because Biblical theology is an area I have expertise in. Nothing you said is actually in Scripture.

    Says the man who doesn’t think Israel should bow before God and serve as an example to the nations.

    Jerusalem is the city of seven hills Shawn, not Rome. I’m afraid you don’t know your Bible very well at all. Still, you don’t understand geopolitics either so I’m not surprised.

    BTW newsflash Ryan and Shawn, I know that Israel acts like a secular state. But this is precisely what opens her up to the wrath of God.

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  167. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Iran does it Ryan.”

    Iran persecutes Christians and other religious minorities. How is that bowing before God?

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  168. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Reid really, really believes in all of this end times nonsense. Ugly, I’m not so sure about because he’s a bit reluctant to outline his core beliefs.

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  169. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    It doesn’t?

    A What and $80,000. Despite claiming no corporate donation.

    Bob Carter on a retainer.

    Same as Willie Soon.

    Who funds the alternative panel again?

    Try exploring the reality as placed before you.

    By the worlds scientific bodies

    Right now.

    With out your little cognitive problem and the tummy wobbles distracting you.

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  170. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “In context it is relevant, liar.”

    No it’s not UglyNazi

    Here is the context again:

    UT: The truth can by presented by witnesses, this is part of the due process of law.”

    S: Oh please, what utter drivel.

    UT: In judicio non creditur nisi juratis. In law none is credited unless he is sworn. All the facts must when established, by witnesses, be under oath or affirmation. Cro. Car. 64.

    it’s your usual diversionary tactic to take attention away from the fact that an M.I.T professor nailed your stupidity.

    A liar and a hypocrite. You’re diverting from that fact that I proved you wrong when you tried to assume control of what the truth is.

    Also, the professor didn’t nail anything, nothing he said conflicts with what I said.

    It remains that you can’t explain where the energy came from to keep fires burning for months after 9/11.

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  171. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Says the man who doesn’t think Israel should bow before God and serve as an example to the nations.”

    Modern Israel is just a state like any other. States are responsible to their people. People are responsible towards God.

    And both my wife and I spent four years at a theological college studying Scripture and theology. She is an ordained minister in the Anglican church. I can recite large portions of Scripture by heart, and to my right is a bookshelf with over fifty books on theology and Scripture, all of which I have read.

    I’ll put my knowledge of Scripture over your cartoonish Nazi pusedo-theology any day.

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  172. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly, I’m not so sure about because he’s a bit reluctant to outline his core beliefs.

    Admit that ShawnLH is lying (re my 1:50) and I’ll continue.

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  173. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “I’m not so sure about because he’s a bit reluctant to outline his core beliefs.”

    UglyNazi never gives a straight answer to anything. Just a lot of twisting and turning and UFO conspiracy rubbish.

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  174. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Iran persecutes Christians and other religious minorities. How is that bowing before God?

    No she doesn’t actually. Of course if all you ever read is Zionist propaganda then of course that’s what you hallucinate.

    Bowing before God, 4 examples. Note the first words in the speeches. What other leader does that?

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/full-text-of-hasan-rouhanis-speech-at-the-un/

    http://www.policymic.com/articles/15364/mahmoud-ahmadinejad-un-general-assembly-speech-video-translation-full-transcript

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?315200-5/year-review-new-iranian-pres-rouhani-addresses-un

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?308405-101/mahmoud-ahmadinejad-united-nations-general-assembly-address

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  175. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Admit that ShawnLH is lying (re my 1:50) and I’ll continue.”

    Translation. “I won’t talk to you unless you agree with my baseless conspiracy theories first.”

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  176. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Reid, do you think Bahais are persecuted in Iran?

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  177. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Persecution of Christians in Iran.

    http://www.persecution.org/category/countries/middle-east/iran/

    http://www.farsinet.com/persecuted/

    http://www.opendoorsuk.org/resources/worldwatch/iran.php

    http://www.charismanews.com/world/42503-iran-begins-national-christian-church-shutdown

    http://www.persecution.net/iran.htm

    http://www.iranhumanrights.org/2013/01/cost_of_faith/

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/02/u-n-report-details-religious-persecution-in-iran/

    Not one from an Israeli source.

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  178. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    No she doesn’t actually. Of course if all you ever read is Zionist propaganda then of course that’s what you hallucinate.

    I don’t think he’s hallucinating.

    Now therefore, behold, YHWH hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and YHWH hath spoken evil against thee.
    2 Ch 18:22

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  179. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Persecution of Bahai’s in Iran.

    http://www.bic.org/media/Current-situation-Bahais-in-Iran

    http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2013/11/11/minority-report-why-bahais-face-persecution-in-iran/

    http://iran.bahai.us/

    http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/publications/reports/3149-a-faith-denied-the-persecution-of-the-baha-is-of-iran.html#.Uz4hJVdxLIU

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  180. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    EPIC FAIL Reid.

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  181. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    U T ,the “Molten steel” allegations are dealt with below . As you will see initially the hot spots were identified by demolition crews and their supervisors as ” molten steel” but more careful and thoughtful reflection and analysis by sundry experts and crews changed this from “molten steel” to molten metal and a combination of other inflammables like plastics used in building and office fixture and fittings.
    The hot spot temperatures were simply not not high enough for “molten steel” but more consistent with metals like aluminum plus sundry metals and other materials.,

    http://911myths.com/html/wtc_molten_steel.html

    plus,

    http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm#molten

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  182. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The hot spot temperatures were simply not not high enough for “molten steel” but more consistent with metals like aluminum plus sundry metals and other materials.,

    While this is true, it doesn’t account for the observations of the witnesses of molten steel or presence of steel fused with concrete.

    The hotspots were only measured after they had been cooling for five days, and it had rained. The hotspot measurements were only of surface temperatures, the underground fires persisted for months.

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  183. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Iran doesn’t persecute religious minorities eh Reid??? Nailed ya on that one.

    Both you and UglyNazi are a couple of truly stupid dupes. Dishonest to the core and spouting laughable UFO conspiracy theories or worst, stupidly repeating the propaganda of some of the worst tyrannies on the planet.

    What a joke.

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  184. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    This is funny. Victor Yanukovych thinks he can negotiate with Russia to return Crimes to Ukraine.
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/04/02/former_ukrainian_president_viktor_yanukovych_regrets_inviting_russian_troops.html

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  185. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Milkmilo: Yanukovych… ….. negotiate with Russia to return Crimes to Ukraine

    Wow! White collar crimes? Burgs? Murders? Atrocities? DIC? Defaulting on rates?

    Had they gone missing? 8O

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  186. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Persecution of religious minorities in Iran

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  187. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Who are the liars now UglyNazi and Reichsführer Reid????

    Got any non UFO or Reptilian shapeshifter answers to all that evidence?????

    Waits………..

    Guess not.

    Mindless idiots.

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  188. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Those who think New Zealand is going to hell in a handbasket should instead be proud of our greatness.

    NZ Ranked World’s Most Socially Advanced Country

    New Zealand topped the rankings across a wide range of measures–according to the Social Progress Index 2014 which ranks 132 countries based on their social and environmental performance. The result was described as “exceptional” by Michael Green, Executive Directive of the Social Progress Imperative.

    Key New Zealand findings:

    Of the 54 indicators measured within each country to make up the overall Index ranking, New Zealand scores top spot in no less than 20, across a wide variety of different measures. These include tying in first place globally on measures of homicide (less than 2 per 100,000 people); levels of corruption and religious tolerance.

    Strengths:</b?

    H New Zealand scores strongly on the ‘Access to Basic Knowledge’ component finishing 2nd globally. Included in this is secondary school enrollment on which New Zealand scores top.

    H New Zealand also finishes top ranked on ‘Personal Freedom and Choice’, owing to impressive results on religious freedoms and freedom over life choices.

    H On ‘Tolerance and Inclusion’ New Zealand scores fourth globally, thanks partly to its high tolerance for immigrants and religious tolerance.

    H On the ‘Access to Information and Communications’ measure New Zealand scores 7th globally, which is a relatively strong result compared to countries of a similar GDP. The result owes partly to an exceptionally high rate of mobile telephone subscriptions (more than 110 for every 100 people) as well as ranking number one globally for press freedoms.

    Other findings

    According to the researchers New Zealand doesn’t have any specific weaknesses.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1404/S00059/nz-ranked-worlds-most-socially-advanced-country.htm

    They mustn’t have looked very closely in social media.

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  189. wreck1080 (3,905 comments) says:

    the left don’t understand anything.

    Raising the tax rate brings in more money, decreasing tax rate reduces it right?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2595611/Cut-tax-rate-sees-revenue-climb-9billion-Amount-paid-wealthiest-soared-50p-rate-reduced.html

    The amount of tax paid by the best-off has soared since George Osborne slashed the top rate of tax from 50p to 45p, according to a new analysis.

    The left will figure out the wrong reason as to why this occurred.

    It just continues to amaze me just how stupid people on the left can be. They should stick to their arts and craft and let the numbers people do the job.

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  190. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    I am surprised no-one has (yet) mentioned this piece of good news:

    More than 21,000 beneficiaries have had their income support cut for travelling overseas since last July, the Government says. Social Development Minister Paula Bennett said the suspended payments had saved the taxpayer $10.5m in suspended payments since the applicable welfare reforms were introduced last year.

    Bennett said more than 1750 people have had their benefit suspended for multiple overseas trips, including 191 people who travelled three times and 1555 who have travelled twice since July. These figures don’t include those on superannuation.

    Fan-bloody-tastic. The benefit is supposed to be a short term ‘leg up’ to help those in genuine need and not a salary. If people want to travel offshore, they sure as hell can get a job to fund it.

    This initiative: TICK.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9900592/Jet-setting-beneficiaries-penalised

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  191. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Who are the liars now UglyNazi and Reichsführer Reid????

    I’ve never seen Reid lie, and if I was a liar you would have accused me long before now.
    That leaves you holding the baby, ShawnLH.

    Got any non UFO or Reptilian shapeshifter answers to all that evidence?????

    What’s wrong with UFO based evidence? That video coming off the International Space Station looked pretty impressive.

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  192. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ugly, don’t you think Reid was lying when he said Iran doesn’t persecute religious minorities?

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  193. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Gave you a tick for that, Elaycee. Couldn’t agree more, with the caveat that there may be genuine compassionate reasons for a beneficiary to travel overseas. But, wait, I see there is an exception to that effect in the policy.

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  194. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly, don’t you think Reid was lying when he said Iran doesn’t persecute religious minorities?

    Mistaken and lying are not the same thing. I don’t know whether or not Iran persecutes minorities.

    Don’t you think that Shawn was lying when he tried to assume control over what the truth was?

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  195. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    I’ll put my knowledge of Scripture over your cartoonish Nazi pusedo-theology any day.

    Is God’s promises to Israel conditional on them bowing in obedience to Him? Yes or no?

    If no, what are the consequences of their disobedience?

    What was the single event that caused the diaspora?

    When did zionism start?

    Do Zionists claim that Israelis are a special race? Yes or no?

    If yes, what do they claim sets them apart?

    What facts claimed in this video are scriptually incorrect?

    Ugly, don’t you think Reid was lying when he said Iran doesn’t persecute religious minorities?

    No I don’t lie mm, I didn’t think Iran did persecute Christians, but from looking at google, it appears they do, so I was mistaken, it appears they are. I wonder however if they are persecuted to the degree Israel persecutes the Palestinians. Do you think they are?

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  196. mandk (993 comments) says:

    @ Pete George,

    You beat me to it. I was going to comment on the report.

    Can’t wait for Cunliffe to tell us that it’s all untrue, based on shonkey research and that National are determined to grind the poor and the weak into the dust, just so that the 1% can get richer.

    What’s interesting about all these international indexes is that they consistently imply that NZ is a veritable demi-paradise on earth. Truly, we live in Godzone :-)

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  197. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Does Iran persecute religious minorities, Reid?

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  198. Manolo (13,753 comments) says:

    Bludgers and jetsetters! http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8824397/21000-benefits-cut-for-overseas-travel

    More than 21,000 people have had their benefits cut since rules around overseas travel were tightened, Social Development Paula Bennett says.

    More than $10.5 million has been saved since July last year by suspending the benefits of those who chose to travel, Ms Bennett says.

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  199. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    mandk
    And I think what we can all be grateful for is that NZ ranks highly in all these kinds of surveys irrespective of which party is in power.

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  200. mandk (993 comments) says:

    @ wreck1080

    Margaret Thatcher demonstrated 20-25 years ago that cutting taxes increases tax yields.

    But, you are correct: if you are left wing, it can’t possibly be true, and the only way to help the poor is to tax the rich until the pips squeak. This is just another example of why socialism is cruel.

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  201. mandk (993 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild

    Try not to miss the point.
    Lefties just hate good news.

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  202. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Does Iran persecute religious minorities, Reid?

    Apparently, mm. Does Israel persecute Palestinians? Or is that just self-defence? Which does more of it – Iran or Israel?

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  203. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    mikenmild, is the reason that you haven’t answered my question because doing so would tend to show that ShawnLH was lying in order to obscure the facts concerning the 9/11 conspiracy?

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  204. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Yes, we’ve got a relatively great country no matter who is in Government, not that you could tell by what some in opposition say.

    Greens have commented on it.

    The result was particularly impressive in the context of New Zealand’s “relative economic weakness” compared to countries that finished much lower on the SPI, Green said.

    “People always say it’s going to be the Scandinavians who come top, and they have done well,” Green said.

    “But what’s striking about New Zealand’s result is that it has only the 25th GDP in the world. Per capita, that’s half of Norway’s. On half the income, NZ can show higher social progress than Norway.”

    New Zealand did not have any specific weaknesses on the SPI, Green said, but its lowest scoring indicator – at 115th globally – was obesity.

    New Zealand also ranked poorly in suicide – 76th globally.

    Green said the project highlighted where there were data gaps, such as violence against women.

    “One of the things we want to highlight as part of this report is that we’re using the best available data that’s globally comparable. But there are data gaps.”

    SPI allowed individual countries to benchmark themselves against peer countries, both at the level of individual indicators as well as overall.

    “If you want to be a successful country, it’s so much more than economic growth,” Green said.

    “If we drive our world on GDP alone, we’re going to miss so much.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9900943/NZ-most-socially-advanced-country

    I agree that there’s gaps and there’s always room for improvement but it’s important to rate our wellbeing on more than just economic measures.

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  205. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Ugly,

    “I’ve never seen Reid lie”

    You just did. He lied about Iran’s persecution of religious minorities.

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  206. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Sorry Ugly, what was your question again? Did it predate my last question of you that remains unanswered?

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  207. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, did you just ignore the fact that I said that lying is not the same as being mistaken, like when you took me out of context when I called you out when you tried to assume control of the truth?

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  208. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Reid
    Of course Israel persecutes Palestinians. Everyone knows that (just like everyone knows Iran persecutes the Bahais).

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  209. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Did it predate my last question of you that remains unanswered?

    Looks like we’ve got nothing to talk about until you acknowledge ShawnLH’s lie.

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  210. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Reid,

    “Is God’s promises to Israel conditional on them bowing in obedience to Him? Yes or no?”

    No. Not in the way you are claiming. God’s blessing’s are conditional, but the Covenant is eternal.

    “What was the single event that caused the diaspora?”

    Roman retaliation for the uprising against Roman rule.

    “Do Zionists claim that Israelis are a special race? Yes or no?”

    No. Zionism is a secular ideology. God’s election of Israel is a Biblical doctrine.

    “If yes, what do they claim sets them apart?”

    Again, the Bible says that God’s election is what set’s them apart.

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  211. Manolo (13,753 comments) says:

    Ah, the beauty of socialism: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2014/04/01/food-rationing-in-venezuela-country-rolls-out-grocery-id-cards/

    Battling food shortages, the Venezuelan government is rolling out a new ID system that is either a grocery loyalty card with extra muscle or the most dramatic step yet towards rationing in Venezuela, depending on who is describing it.

    President Nicolás Maduro’s administration says the cards to track families’ purchases will foil people who stock up on groceries at subsidised prices and then illegally resell them for several times the amount. Critics say it’s another sign the oil-rich Venezuelan economy is headed toward Cuba-style dysfunction.

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  212. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ugly
    What was Shawn’s lie again? And how is it relevant to any discussion I have with you?

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  213. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “What facts claimed in this video are scriptually incorrect?”

    All of it. It is just a repeat of the blood libel claim and various Nazi style accusations.

    Stick to the actual Bible Reid, and not Nazi style propaganda.

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  214. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I almost feel sorry for you Shawn, watching one of Reid’s videos.

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  215. jcuk (686 comments) says:

    I am sure if there wasn’t so much negativity coming from the desparate folk of the left telling people how poorly off they are the suicide rate would be lower.

    On the other hand Bennett crowing how 10 million has been saved when compared to total spent is pretty pathetic.

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  216. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Zionism is a secular ideology.

    But you said: “Zionism is a JEWISH movement you moron.”

    Oops.

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  217. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Of course Israel persecutes Palestinians.”

    The so-called Palestinians have been a major part of the Arab world’s threat against Israel. They have carried out decades of terrorist attacks against Israeli citizens.

    There is fault on both sides, but the Palestinians are not innocent victims.

    By the way. There has never been a Palestinian nation. There is no Palestinian language. There is no Palestinian ethnicity.

    Palestinians are Arabs, specifically Jordanian Arabs. The myth of a distinct Palestinian people is a 20th century creation used to justify Arab aggression against Israel.

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  218. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Sorry Shawn, I’ll rephrase that: of course Israel persecutes Arab citizens of Israel and the occupied territories.

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  219. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “I almost feel sorry for you Shawn, watching one of Reid’s videos.”

    It made me feel sick to the stomach. Much of it was just all the old anti-Semitic tripe that has been around for centuries and found in books like The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and of course, Mein Kampf.

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  220. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    What was Shawn’s lie again? And how is it relevant to any discussion I have with you?

    The lie was about his assumption of control of the truth in relation to evidence of conspiracy (i.e. my 1:50).
    The relevance is your tendency to divert attention away from issues that you have a problem with, eg 9/11.

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  221. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    The only one of Reid’s videos I watched contrasted life in Soviet and Nazi camps: “In the German camps, life was much better”.

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  222. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    I think mm persecution is a dubious term in this case. That is not to say Israel is always right, but this is not a clear cut case of either side being totally right or wrong. Arabs bear much of the blame, and in many respects the “Palestinians” have been the victims of the surrounding Arab states, used as pawns in their war against Israel.

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  223. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ugly
    I see nothing in your 1.50pm comment for me to take issue with. Doesn’t necessarily make Shawn a liar – perhaps he was ‘mistaken’ about one of your legal definitions in the same way Reid was ‘mistaken’ about religious persecution in Iran.

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  224. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    You just did. He lied about Iran’s persecution of religious minorities.

    No I was mistaken Shawn, as explained above. As you know, a Christian shouldn’t lie or bear false witness but you’ve done so a number of times today and indeed many days, by accusing both UT and I of harbouring Nazi beliefs and beliefs on other such matters.

    Since bearing false witness is one of the 10 Commandments (i.e. Christianity 101), I’m frankly shocked that you’re so easily prepared to abandon your Christian ethics to make a point in a minor debate on a political blog, especially given your erudite claims to the faith you make above.

    All of it. It is just a repeat of the blood libel claim and various Nazi style accusations.

    Yet another lie. Video was posted at 3.44, you posted that at 4.09, it’s 58 minutes long. There’s few things I dislike more than a man with no integrity Shawn, that’s why I hate the NWO and the Zionists who are often one and the same. You’re proving to contain a similar disposition they have in regard to truth.

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  225. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Hey ShawnLH, how can Zionism be both a secular ideology, and at the same time a Jewish movement like you said?
    Is it because Zionism belongs to false Jews and you can’t tell the false ones from the real ones?

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  226. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Doesn’t necessarily make Shawn a liar – perhaps he was ‘mistaken’ about one of your legal definitions in the same way Reid was ‘mistaken’ about religious persecution in Iran.

    Not likely, there weren’t any legal definitions used.
    Why are you avoiding the real issue, is it because you know that it tends to show that the conspiracy is a matter of fact?

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  227. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    What’s the real issue Ugly? You’ll have to point me directly at the statement that I’m supposed to condemn as a lie.

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  228. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    Alleged Israel Human right abuses against Palestinians pales into comparison with those of the 54 or so members of the Islamic Theocracies and dictatorships that either infest the UN Human Rights Council and the UN itself. I think the behaviour and actions of the likes of Saudi Arabia and Iran speaks for itself but e.g the Sudan where casual genocide is practiced as well as slavery for its non Islamic citizens.
    Small wonder that neither Israel, the rest of the civilized world or those of us here cannot take the UN Human Rights council seriously .Pat Condell has a good handle on it. He’s deserving of your full attention and care . Note also how the Palestinians are treated as third class citizens in Arab countries that neighbour Israel,

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  229. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “But you said: “Zionism is a JEWISH movement”

    It is. But being Jewish is a matter of ethnicity, not religion.

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  230. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “The only one of Reid’s videos I watched contrasted life in Soviet and Nazi camps: “In the German camps, life was much better”.

    Statements like that are just insane.

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  231. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    A Jewish person is still a Jewish person if they are an atheist.

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  232. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    What “lie” am I supposed to have said?

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  233. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I’ve got confused about that Shawn, but I think it was something to do with witnesses. I’ve asked Ugly to clarity and I hope he does, coz I’d really miss chatting with him.

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  234. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Reid,

    “by accusing both UT and I of harbouring Nazi beliefs”

    That is not a lie. You use EXACTLY the same arguments they did. You pick on the Jews and Israel as though they were the greatest evil in the world, you repeat the blood libel lie, you ignore, lie about, or are “mistaken” about many other countries with far worst records.

    I have heard every single argument you make about Jews and about Israel in my debates with neo-Nazi’s over the years.

    If the shoe fits…….

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  235. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    I think Ugly’s definition of a lie is simply not agreeing with his conspiracy theories. You really cannot have a reasonable debate with someone like that.

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  236. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Is it because Zionism belongs to false Jews and you can’t tell the false ones from the real ones?”

    This is just idiotic drivel. Get back to me when you engage your other braincell.

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  237. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    Pat Condell also has the answers to the bigotry , paranoia and pedaled by Reid and UT in respect of Jews. On before but worth a rerun as he takes to pieces and destroys the illusions and blind ignorance about them,

    Lets Blame the Jews .

    Actually given the huge contribution the Jews have made to the betterment of mankind through Nobel prizes in science etc , I’d rather have them ruling over me than others like Reid and UT etc.

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  238. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    What “lie” am I supposed to have said?

    Your lie was your denial of the fact that the truth can by presented by witnesses, and that this is part of the due process of law.

    I said: “The truth can by presented by witnesses, this is part of the due process of law.”

    You said: “Oh please, what utter drivel.”

    I said: “In judicio non creditur nisi juratis. In law none is credited unless he is sworn. All the facts must when established, by witnesses, be under oath or affirmation. Cro. Car. 64.”

    You said: ““In judicio non creditur nisi juratis.” Which is irrelevant to the issue.”

    Your final assertion of irrelevance shows your intent to deceive; you did not include the language which showed the actual meaning.

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  239. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    Great Moments In Socialism

    French government resigns en masse;

    France’s socialist prime minister resigned along with his entire government yesterday following a meltdown in local elections.

    Jean-Marc Ayrault admitted that a huge swing to the Right, including to the extremist National Front, was down to him and his Left-wing government.

    And last night socialist President Francois Hollande – whose rule has become synonymous with a 75 per cent top rate of income tax – admitted to mistakes and said his priority was now to cut taxes.

    The government’s resignation is a huge blow to the president, who was elected to a five-year term in 2012 but whose first two years in power have seen him become the most unpopular head of state in recent history.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2593556/Frances-Socialist-PM-entire-government-quit-following-electoral-meltdown-Hollande-set-hand-job-interior-minister-Manuel-Valls.html#ixzz2xbemkZj0

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  240. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ugly
    I accept that the truth may be presented by witnesses. Will you play with me now?

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  241. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    You pick on the Jews and Israel as though they were the greatest evil in the world

    No, I explained who the zionist’s are. I already explained this morning it’s about the Jewish leadership not the Jewish people, but you’ve lied ever since then, many, many times. I take precisely the same stance Jesus did. Like Jesus I’m against the pharisees and for the Jewish people. You, you’re supporting the pharisees in their persecution of the Jewish people by colluding with them in their setup for destruction. And yet you’re the one who claims Biblical authority and slanders the one whose telling you the Emperor has no clothes. How very pharisaic of you.

    I have heard every single argument you make about Jews and about Israel in my debates with neo-Nazi’s over the years.

    Obviously you haven’t “heard” a thing.

    you ignore, lie about, or are “mistaken” about many other countries with far worst records.

    No I don’t ignore them Shawn it’s simply that Iran isn’t relevant if we’re talking about zionism. You bought it up before and I answered your question. And if you think the way Israel treats Palestinians is not as bad as the way Iran treats Christians, then how come Iran hasn’t ghetto-ised Christians and shelled them with white phospherous?

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  242. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Your lie was your denial of the fact that the truth can by presented by witnesses, and that this is part of the due process of law.”

    My point was that in the context of the debate about 911 your point about witnesses was not relevant. Issues to do with heat, fire and structural engineering require expertise in those areas. I quoted a real expert, which you dismissed out of hand.

    Thus I was not lying. You were doing your usual twisting and turning, trying desperately to back up your 911 conspiracy theory, and ignoring experts in the relevant areas.

    Far from lying, I was holding your feet to the fire. You just don’t like it when anyone challenges you.

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  243. wf (441 comments) says:

    Gawd, GD is getting more boring as the days go by.
    Every day the same old, same old. Topics AND people.

    How about having a limit of 10 posts a day?

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  244. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    This is cool:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/9901063/Tiny-Tuvalus-insult-to-Russia
    Take that Vladimir.

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  245. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    My point was that in the context of the debate about 911 your point about witnesses was not relevant.

    Here’s why it was relevant.

    I said: “The truth doesn’t depend on your idea of what is relevant and credible.”

    You said :” BULLSHIT. It does depend on people who have degrees and relevant knowledge, which YOU don’t. You cannot reference anyone because your talking utter shit. Your claiming that your more credible than an expert from M.I.T. That is just utter wank”

    Seems that you were trying to dismiss the testimony of witnesses who showed that the conspiracy was a fact because of the molten steel issue.

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  246. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    You could dismiss the testimony on witnesses on the grounds that they were wrong, or mistaken.

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  247. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Every day the same old, same old. Topics AND people.

    Here, have a armada of UFOs

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  248. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “No, I explained who the zionist’s are.”

    No, you gave me a whackjob theory about who they were which has no relation to reality. I know this because you used Zionism in relation to first century Judaism. Zionism was not around until the late 19th century.

    “Like Jesus I’m against the pharisees and for the Jewish people.”

    The Pharisees WERE Jewish you uneducated moron.

    “you’re supporting the pharisees in their persecution of the Jewish people by colluding with them in their setup for destruction.”

    The Pharisees don’t exist anymore. Your using Zionist and Pharisee as though they were the same thing. This is, to put it mildly, BOLLOCKS.

    You have no clue Reid. Your just pulling this neo-Nazi tripe off the internet and swallowing it like a gullible sheep.

    Your a seriously bad example of what happens when people solely use the internet to educate themselves.

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  249. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    Nice to see the Jehovah Junkies at each others throats.

    Someone slip amphetamines into the communion wine last Sunday? :)

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  250. PhilP (163 comments) says:

    The Liebore candidate for Wairarapa Kieran McAnulty had a front page spread last week in the weekly Wairarapa News.
    He said the probable National Party candidate living outside the electorate puts him in a favourable position to win Wairarapa.
    What a load of bollocks. Doesn’t he know that one potential candidate now lives in Masterton and has done so for at least 2 months. That person is Joanne Hayes mp (list). Admittedly, one potential candidate (Alistair Scott) currently lives in Wellington, but were he to be selected for National, then I have no doubt he will live at his vineyard on the outskirts of Masterton. Another example of the media just printing what Liebore says without checking the facts. McAnulty will find it harder to win Wairarapa than he thinks, I believe.

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  251. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Nothing like a gold old Masonic/Illuminati/Jewish global conspiracy to light up GD, is there nasska?

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  252. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    PhilP
    Did you read your own comment? One candidate has lived there two months and the other might consent to live on his vineyard. Is this a parody of the sorts of posts DPF makes about Labour carpetbaggers?

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  253. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    Definitely keeps the electrons stirred Mike. :)

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  254. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You could dismiss the testimony on witnesses on the grounds that they were wrong, or mistaken.

    That’s not the point. He was trying to dismiss them because they didn’t have “degrees and relevant knowledge”.

    That’s why he got all snaky hen I showed that degrees don’t matter. The witnesses said they saw molten steel, and he doesn’t have an energy source which can get to that temperature, the best he’s got is fire that could soften steel.

    Molten steel means that the MSM account is a lie.

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  255. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    They’re watching….

    ───────────────███───────────────
    ─────────────██▀─▀██─────────────
    ───────────██▀─────▀██───────────
    ─────────██▀──▄▄▄▄▄──▀██─────────
    ───────██▀──▄▀─────▀▄──▀██───────
    ─────██▀──▄▀───███───▀▄──▀██─────
    ───██▀────▀▄───▀▀▀───▄▀────▀██───
    ─██▀────────▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀────────▀██─
    █▀─────────────────────────────▀█
    █████████████████████████████████
    ─────────────────────────────────

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  256. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    Or Nazi UFOs in Antarctica.

    Speaking of wacky notions, the patron saint of AGW deniers Fred Singer has a few:

    In a 1960 Astronautics newsletter, Singer commented on Iosif Shklovsky’s hypothesis that the orbit of the Martian moon Phobos suggests that it is hollow, which implies it is of artificial origin. Singer wrote: “My conclusion there is, and here I back Shklovsky, that if the satellite is indeed spiraling inward as deduced from astronomical observation, then there is little alternative to the hypothesis that it is hollow and therefore martian made. The big “if” lies in the astronomical observations; they may well be in error. Since they are based on several independent sets of measurements taken decades apart by different observers with different instruments, systematic errors may have influenced them.” Later measurements confirmed Singer’s big “if” caveat: Shklovsky overestimated Phobos’ rate of altitude loss due to bad early data. Photographs by probes beginning 1972 show a natural stony surface with craters. Ufologists continue to present Singer as an unconditional supporter of Shklovsky’s artificial Phobos hypothesis.

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  257. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Z Energy is planning to build what will probably be the world’s first commercial biofuels plant which isn’t subsidised by governments.

    The company will initially invest $21 million in the plant at Wiri near Auckland which will produce 20 million litres a year of pure biodiesel – typically, this is blended with mineral diesel.

    Z Energy says it will be able to double this capacity for an extra investment of $2.5 million, should demand be sufficient, and the biodiesel produced will meet both New Zealand and European standards.

    The petrol station operator says its feedstock will be about 10 percent of the inedible tallow produced by the meat industry, which is currently exported to China and India to make soap and candles.

    The company says it already has letters of intent from potential customers – most of the initial production will be sold to commercial customers rather than through Z’s retail network.

    Chief executive, Mike Bennetts says Z is very close to being able to start building the plant and it should be operating within about 14 months.

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  258. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “I showed that degrees don’t matter.”

    Translation: “Degrees and real education do not matter to me and Reid. We KNOW because we look at lots and lots of whacky conspiracy and neo-Nazi web sites, so we KNOW better than any educated person about everything.”

    What a load of self-serving, uneducated, mindless CRAP.

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  259. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ugly, I think that you and Shawn might have been talk past one another. Some witnesses thought they saw molten steel. Experts have shown why that was a mistaken belief.

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  260. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    PhilP

    Take anything printed in the Wairarapa Times Age with a grain of salt or three. The editor, one Andrew Bonallack, has decided to turn the rag into a Labour Party pamphlet. They have a total circulation of about 5000 so damage will not be great but it is a shame to see a previously well respected publication go down the toilet.

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  261. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    The Pharisees WERE Jewish you uneducated moron.

    Yes Shawn, they were the Jewish leaders, that’s what I was saying this morning.

    Get this moron. All day I’ve been talking about the Jewish LEADERS vs the Jewish PEOPLE. I’ve lately referred to the Jewish leaders as pharisees to draw attention to the fact they are doing today precisely what they did in Jesus time – misleading their people and causing them to sin, grievously. What about any of that is hard to understand?

    Yet apparently, for you, it’s extraordinarily difficult, since you’ve given no sign all day of even getting that extremely elementary point. If you can’t even get your head round that Shawn, what chance at all is there of you being correct about anything else?

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  262. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly, I think that you and Shawn might have been talk past one another.

    No, the fact that he snipped the relevant language when he quoted me showed intent to mislead.

    Some witnesses thought they saw molten steel.

    Yes, and there’s video of steel fused with concrete as well.

    Experts have shown why that was a mistaken belief.

    No they haven’t. His “expert” was describing a possible collapse mechanism, he wasn’t talking about an energy source for the molten steel.

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  263. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Some witnesses thought they saw molten steel. Experts have shown why that was a mistaken belief.”

    Exactly. The expert testimony does not accord with Ugly’s conspiracy theories so they have to be dismissed in favor of unreliable witnesses. He trotted out the claim that witnesses are enough in his understanding of the law, but as with the driver’s license issue we already know that Ugly’s understanding of the law is just more whakjob silliness.

    I pointed out that the expert testimony refutes his claim, thus in Ugly’s “mind” I lied.

    Seriously, seriously delusional man. As I said I am not surprised that a Judge ordered a psychiatric evaluation.

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  264. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The expert testimony does not accord with Ugly’s conspiracy theories

    Liar, it does accord with the use of micronukes to generate the energy necessary for the presence of molten steel.

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  265. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Here is the text:

    “Thomas Eagar, an engineering professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, explains why: steel loses 50 percent of its strength at 1,200 degrees F; 90,000 liters of jet fuel ignited other combustible materials such as rugs, curtains, furniture and paper, which continued burning after the jet fuel was exhausted, raising temperatures above 1,400 degrees F and spreading the inferno throughout each building.”

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fahrenheit-2777/

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  266. Ryan Sproull (7,119 comments) says:

    The so-called Palestinians have been a major part of the Arab world’s threat against Israel. They have carried out decades of terrorist attacks against Israeli citizens.

    As St Augustine wrote…

    “Indeed, that was an apt and true reply which was given to Alexander the Great by a pirate who had been seized. For when that king had asked the man what he meant by keeping hostile possession of the sea, he answered with bold pride, What you mean by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you who does it with a great fleet are styled emperor.”

    There is fault on both sides, but the Palestinians are not innocent victims.

    No, they have fought back, like the villains they are.

    By the way. There has never been a Palestinian nation. There is no Palestinian language. There is no Palestinian ethnicity.

    Palestinians are Arabs, specifically Jordanian Arabs. The myth of a distinct Palestinian people is a 20th century creation used to justify Arab aggression against Israel.

    Ugh. Your attempt to erase the people who lived on that land from the pages of history is chilling. No nation! Don’t count as people. No language! Don’t count as people. No ethnicity! Don’t count as people.

    Is “chilling” the right word? I’m torn between “chilling” and “sickening”.

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  267. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Yes Shawn, they were the Jewish leaders”

    No, they weren’t. The Jewish leaders were the Priestly class, the Sadducees, and the Herodians. The Pharisees were more a middle class renewal movement, and they had no leadership authority.

    Your profound ignorance is showing again.

    FFS, read a book. One written by an academically credentialed historian.

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  268. Ryan Sproull (7,119 comments) says:

    No, I explained who the zionist’s are. I already explained this morning it’s about the Jewish leadership not the Jewish people, but you’ve lied ever since then, many, many times. I take precisely the same stance Jesus did. Like Jesus I’m against the pharisees and for the Jewish people. You, you’re supporting the pharisees in their persecution of the Jewish people by colluding with them in their setup for destruction. And yet you’re the one who claims Biblical authority and slanders the one whose telling you the Emperor has no clothes. How very pharisaic of you.

    Reid, your argument is seriously “your support for Israel is reaaaaaally encouraging them on the inevitable and prophesied path to the wrath of God”. That is batshit insane by almost anyone’s standards. I don’t know what your objective here is, but if it’s to convince anyone to change their minds, you are wasting your time with your current tactics.

    If your objective is to rant and rave with a Cassandra complex, mission accomplished and it’s time for bed.

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  269. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Ryan, the Jordanian Arabs were Jordanians. They were only called Palestinians after the Six Day War stranded them on the wrong side of the border. I am not dismissing them or their legitimate concerns, merely correcting an Arab lie.

    The ancient peoples who inhabited Eretz Israel alongside the Jews and the modern “Palestinians” are not the same people.

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  270. Ryan Sproull (7,119 comments) says:

    Ryan, the Jordanian Arabs were Jordanians. They were only called Palestinians after the Six Day War stranded them on the wrong side of the border. I am not dismissing them or their legitimate concerns, merely correcting an Arab lie.

    Arabs and Jews living in the British mandate of Palestine before its massive colonisation by Europeans can rightly be called Palestinians. Call the Arabs and Jews who were living on Jordanian land at that time Jordanians if you like. The question of Israel’s treatment of its indigenous population and conquered population remains the same.

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  271. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    U T and Reid, the genealogy of Jesus from Matthew fairly and squarely makes him a Jew out of interest ,

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+1

    Jews have received 22% of Nobel prizes yet represent 0.2 % of th worlds population.

    Hmmm….!

    http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/10/29/richard-dawkins-perplexed-by-high-number-of-jewish-nobel-prize-winners/

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  272. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “The question of Israel’s treatment of its indigenous population and conquered population remains the same.”

    Not really, as Jordanian Arabs are not “indigenous” people. They are indigenous to Jordan, not Eretz Israel.

    The real issue is the treatment of Jewish people by Arab/Islamic terrorists, including their support for Hitler.

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  273. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    The Mufti and the Führer.

    “In 1941, Haj Amin al-Husseini (Supreme religious leader of Palestinian Arabs) fled to Germany and met with Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Joachim Von Ribbentrop and other Nazi leaders. He wanted to persuade them to extend the Nazis’ anti-Jewish program to the Arab world.

    Germany stood for uncompromising war against the Jews. That naturally included active opposition to the Jewish national home in Palestine….Germany would furnish positive and practical aid to the Arabs involved in the same struggle….Germany’s objective [is]…solely the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere….In that hour the Mufti would be the most authoritative spokesman for the Arab world. The Mufti thanked Hitler profusely.

    In 1945, Yugoslavia sought to indict the Mufti as a war criminal for his role in recruiting 20,000 Muslim volunteers for the SS, who participated in the killing of Jews in Croatia and Hungary. He escaped from French detention in 1946, however, and continued his fight against the Jews from Cairo and later Beirut. He died in 1974.

    The Husseini family continued to play a role in Palestinian affairs, with Faisal Husseini, whose father was the Mufti’s nephew, regarded until his death in 2001 as one of their leading spokesmen in the territories.”

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html

    The “Palestinian” Arabs siding with Hitler negates any claims they have to being “victims”.

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  274. Ryan Sproull (7,119 comments) says:

    Not really, as Jordanian Arabs are not “indigenous” people. They are indigenous to Jordan, not Eretz Israel.

    Would it be clearer if I described them as “human beings”?

    The real issue is the treatment of Jewish people by Arab/Islamic terrorists, including their support for Hitler.

    It is not. And it’s still called terrorism when you execute it with one of the most advanced military powers in the world.

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  275. Ryan Sproull (7,119 comments) says:

    The “Palestinian” Arabs siding with Hitler negates any claims they have to being “victims”.

    Jesus fuck, dude. You’re dismissing the experience and claim to just treatment of millions of people on the basis of what a Mufti allegedly did 70 years ago. And you’ve got the claim on speed-dial.

    Just think about that.

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  276. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull consider the Pat Condell video above and the hypocrisy of the UN Council of Human Rights and their Islamic members who have passed resolution after resolution condemning Israel for alleged Human Rights abuses and turn a blind eye to their own horrendous abuses. ( iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan etc., etc )
    Naturally Israel and other sane members ignore their garbage .!

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  277. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    See above Ryan. Yes, they are human beings. So were the SS.

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  278. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “on the basis of what a Mufti allegedly did 70 years ago”

    No “allegedly” about it. Arabs occupying Eretz Israel sided with Hitler en masse.

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  279. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    The remarkable thing is how patient Israel has been with those who sided with Hitler’s attempt to wipe them off the face of the earth.

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  280. Ryan Sproull (7,119 comments) says:

    No “allegedly” about it. Arabs occupying Eretz Israel sided with Hitler en masse.

    Let’s take it as fact that the Mufti did.

    Are you about to tell me that you hold human beings responsible for the actions of their ancestors’ purported authoritarian representative 70 years earlier?

    This is how you expressed your thoughts on the matter:

    The “Palestinian” Arabs siding with Hitler negates any claims they have to being “victims”.

    This from the guy who spent half the day arguing with Reid that moral responsibility lies with individuals, not states. This from the guy who surely does not believe that the actions of a “supreme religious leader” can negate the claims to justice of 4 million human beings.

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  281. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I’m wondering if Shawn is a reincarnation of lee01…

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  282. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Let’s take it as fact that the Mufti did.”

    Need some proof?

    http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/

    “Are you about to tell me that you hold human beings responsible for the actions of their ancestors’ purported authoritarian representative 70 years earlier?”

    Using words like “purported” on this issue is no different to using it in relation to the Holocaust. And yes, if those descendents have not given up the Nazi/Islamic dream of death to all Jews, and they have not, then they are morally responsible.

    Jew haters are Jew haters. It matters not one bit if they are German Nazis or Islamic Fascists.

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  283. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “Ibrahim Mudayris, Official, Palestinian Ministry of Religious Trusts and Religious Affairs: “The Prophet said: The Resurrection will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them. Rejoice in Allah’s Victory… Everything wants vengeance on the Jews… these pigs on the face of the earth. And the day of our victory, Allah willing, will come.”

    http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=427

    Now Ryan, how do you think Israeli Jews should respond to statements like this?

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  284. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    the Nazi/Islamic dream of death to all Jews

    He’s lying again. The idea of death to all Jews is not a part of Islam.

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  285. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    You might like to point me to evidence that the people of Palestine as a whole harbour a dream of death to all Jews.

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  286. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    See above mm. And UglyNazi.

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  287. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Lee01
    is spawn mike
    Same mental problems as Kea.

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  288. Ryan Sproull (7,119 comments) says:

    Using words like “purported” on this issue is no different to using it in relation to the Holocaust.

    I’m very hesitant to refer to anyone as a legitimate authoritarian representative of all the people they claim to represent. You may be marginally familiar with why that is, and may possibly be able to comprehend it without lowering yourself to comparing me to Holocaust deniers.

    And yes, if those descendents have not given up the Nazi/Islamic dream of death to all Jews, and they have not, then they are morally responsible.

    Just read what you’re writing, Shawn. Just think about it.

    You’re saying that Palestinians – or whatever you want to call the descendants of those people who lived in pre-colonisation Palestine – can be treated any way the Israeli government chooses to, with no ability to claim being victims, because 70 years ago an evil man who claimed to represent them did a deal with an evil man named Hitler. Just think. THINK. Think. And the speed with which you pulled up your reason to dismiss them. You’ve done it before.

    Children are included in your blanket dismissal of the rights of over 4 million people, Shawn.

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  289. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    The statement of one Palestinian official is not evidence. You might as well hold all New Zealanders responsible for the views of Hone Harawira.

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  290. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Ryan, look at my post on current Palestinian attitudes to Jews, and think Ryan. Just think. And imagine you were Jewish.

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  291. Ryan Sproull (7,119 comments) says:

    I’m out for today. Even I have limits.

    Reid, you’re out of your goddam mind, but I like your spelling and grammar.

    Shawn, you should check your rational mind to make sure it’s not just reassuring you that you were right and righteous all along.

    Stephieboy, I apologise if English is your second language or if you have dyslexia or something, but I basically don’t read what you’re saying any more. I have to prioritise.

    See you tomorrow, crazies.

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  292. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “The statement of one Palestinian official is not evidence.”

    Yes, it is, and I can provide many, many more from a variety of “Palestinian” sources. Of course it is easy to dismiss this when your not Jewish, when your parents or grandparents did not die in the gas chambers.

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  293. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    You are using a very narrow range of sources to deny that a people of 4 million should enjoy basic human rights. Take Ryan’s advice and re-read some of your comments.

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  294. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    And I’m going to spend time with my wife. Some of the rest of you can do whatever it is you do in your spare time. Goosestepping around in jackboots saying “Sieg heil!” I assume.

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  295. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Godwin

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  296. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    Ryan S , I’ll try gain.
    Ryan Sproull ,consider the Pat Condell video above and the hypocrisy of the UN Council of Human Rights ,and their Islamic members who have passed resolution after resolution, condemning Israel for alleged Human Rights abuses.
    But they turn a blind eye to their own horrendous abuses ( iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan etc., etc .)

    Naturally Israel and other sane members ignore their garbage .!
    Pretty clear I believe.

    Whats the difficulty.?
    Truth hurts.?

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  297. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    Condell reckons the EDL has a healthy regard for human rights, democracy and the rule of law.
    /

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  298. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    the Nazi/Islamic dream of death to all Jews

    Hey Anglican asshole, stop fucking lying.

    VERILY, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians -all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. ~ The Quran, surah 2:62

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  299. Ryan Sproull (7,119 comments) says:

    God. Just quickly. Stephie, you’re right, that was unfair of me. Your point is clearly stated, but irrelevant to my point. “These guys are assholes too” is not a defence against an accusation of being an asshole.

    Shawn, it is immature and unworthy of you to paint anyone who disagrees with you as a Nazi.

    Mikenmild, Godwin’s Law only predicts that Nazis or Hitler will be brought up in an online discussion, but does not state that the person who brings them up has lost the argument. That was a later corollary.

    Ryan, that’s enough now, go away.

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  300. Steve (North Shore) (4,560 comments) says:

    Wow, what a day. Is Pharmac providing placebos as a cost cutting measure?
    What time do the gates close when they are all locked up for the night?

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  301. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    Try this Ryan Sproull .This will appeal.

    A Message to offended Muslims,

    In a country where it can be a crime to burn the Koran but not the Bible.

    How can it get like this.?

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  302. wikiriwhis business (3,996 comments) says:

    Andrew Johnstone

    When I interviewed Gareth Morgan a few months back he said that what with trusts and other tax avoidence measures, the high earners were getting away with paying very little tax, in fact the bulk of tax came from P.A.Y.E, middle and low incone earners. It is the ordinary working Kiwis who pay for interest on debt, Welfare, Health, Education and Infrastructure. One could almost conclude that the word ‘bludger’ so often bandied about the by privaleged rich (aka ACT Party) is more applicable to the wealthy who enjoy all the benefits this wonderful little country has to offer without contributing a fair share.

    https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=798070423538352&set=a.309602365718496.87665.100000062064715&type=1&theater

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  303. PhilP (163 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild
    PhilP
    Did you read your own comment? One candidate has lived there two months and the other might consent to live on his vineyard. Is this a parody of the sorts of posts DPF makes about Labour carpetbaggers?

    You might like to know that Jo Hayes has strong links to the Wairarapa through her Iwi, her Mother lives in Masterton and Jo was born in Eketahuna. But then hardly going to get a leftie to agree with my comment am I?

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  304. PhilP (163 comments) says:

    @ nasska,

    I couldn’t agree more.

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  305. wikiriwhis business (3,996 comments) says:

    Google to Launch Digital Currency Exchange to Rival Bitcoin

    In today’s video, Christopher Greene of AMTV reports on the digital currency revolution.
    http://www.amtvmedia.com/re-direct-fu

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  306. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    The first Green Party protest. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/r3hxb54x38zn5so/Protest.jpg

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  307. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    National down to 43 in Roy Morgan poll

    Significant changes in the latest Roy Morgan poll are National down to 43 and New Zealand First up over 5% again.

    National 43% (down 2.5%)
    Maori Party 1.5% (down 0.5%)
    ACT NZ (0.5%, unchanged)
    United Future 0.5% (unchanged)

    Labour Party 32% (up 0.5%)
    Greens 13% (down 1%)
    New Zealand First 5.5% (up 2%)
    Mana Party 0.5% (up 0.5%)

    Conservative Party of NZ 2.5% (up 1%)
    Internet Party (0.5%, up 0.5%)
    Others 0.5% (down 0.5%)

    This the lowest National have been since last August-October when the bottom out at 41.

    Labour are up slightly and Greens down a bit, cancelling each other out.

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  308. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    They are now going to legalize homosexual marriages in Ireland.

    Thousands of gay Irish men have announced their intention to marry their lesbian lovers.

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  309. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Meanwhile, the Zionists, not content to control Obama and dictate his Ukraine strategy, hold court to select the next President – Jeb Bush. Oh goody. What the world really needs is yet another Bush.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/01/356826/war-party-oligarch/

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  310. Andrei (2,641 comments) says:

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  311. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Again with the evil Jewish conspiracy Reid. Do you never get tired of it all?
    And, especially for Andrei in case he missed it earlier:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/9901063/Tiny-Tuvalus-insult-to-Russia

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  312. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    Reid, this surely is another of your conspiracy spoofs.?

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  313. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Sorry Reid, but it’s my policy now not to look at your videos. It’s enough entertainment just to read what you write.

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  314. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    Reid

    …….”ShawnLH (93 comments) says:
    February 18th, 2014 at 9:32 pm

    Hi Pete

    Nope. You may not be aware of who I am. I was away from this blog for a long time, but I have been posting here for years. Forgot my password and so it was easier just to create a new account. But I used to post under my middle name Lee, and if you do remember I have been a paleo-libertartarian traditionalist conservative for more than 15 years years now, of which Anarcho-Monarchy is a variant.”…..

    AND

    …..’I’m only posting a lot at the moment because I’m recovering from surgery and have very little else to do.”……
    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1″…….

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  315. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    How can it get like this.?

    The religious differences go way back. In the Torah the original text spoke quiet favourably towards the descendants of Ishmael, but the vowel pointing was added, it changed the meaning of the text to make it more disparaging. Later one of the Pharisees made a negative allusion towards the descendants of Ishmael, and Christianity has certainly picked up on it. With the advent of Islam the came the classic falling out between the Muslims and the Jews, both sides blaming each other. But at the end of the day Islam and Judaism have lot of common ground, with Christianity more vulnerable to the influence of Pharasaism and Islam keeping the doctrine of mercy, although many followers seem to have missed the point here.

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  316. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    Flight 370 captured by the US Navy,

    False.!

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/malaysiacapture.asp

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  317. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    nasska
    Didn’t I say it earlier? Shawn is lee01.

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  318. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    When he left as Lee01 he’d lost the plot completely Mike. His comments had become a trainwreck in slo-mo so I didn’t take too much notice when the new, sanitised Godologist turned up.

    History may repeat. :)

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  319. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    Didn’t I say it earlier? Shawn is lee01.

    Indeed he is miken.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/03/general_debate_24_march_2014.html#comment-1295286

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/09/general_debate_26_september_2011.html#comment-881692

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  320. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I think it became clearer when he went down the whole ‘Palestinians are not real people’ track. Can’t wait to see now whether he repeats his ‘I want to apologise to you all because my comments have been a little unchristlike’ drama.

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  321. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    He’s like Baity…..can’t handle the pressure. :)

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  322. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Hey guess what? More zionists.

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/04/02/secret-surveillance/

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/04/02/western-warmongers-getting-shot-down-in-flames/

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/11/20/neo-bolshevik-license-to-kill-and-destroy-the-goyim/

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/02/12/how-monks-and-monasteries-saved-civilization-and-killed-usury/

    etc.

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  323. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    mikenmild (8,323 comments) says:
    April 3rd, 2014 at 8:58 pm
    . Can’t wait to see now whether he repeats his ‘I want to apologise to you all because my comments have been a little unchristlike’ drama.

    Life must be very difficult when you have an impossible goal to try and achieve. No wonder poor shawn gets stressed. Life as a heathen is less complicated, being ‘devil like’ is much easier

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  324. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Life as a heathen is less complicated, being ‘devil like’ is much easier

    They don’t call him the slanderer and deceiver for nothing, Judith.

    What I don’t really get is if you guys really do think it’s all bollocks then why not go the whole hog and just go nuts ‘doing what thou wilt’ every single step of the way and who cares about laws, people you don’t know, or anything else? I mean it seems such a waste to miss out on all those fleshly pleasures simply because you want to be nice or whatever it is that stops you from doing it. It’s just if we’re right and you’re wrong, then what you’ve done is sent yourself to purgatory without even having all that much fun while you’re here.

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  325. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    He keeps MM amused and out of out out lives in his professional capacity so all good /

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  326. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    Yup, Veterans Today really is a legitimate source.
    /

    http://blog.adl.org/tags/veterans-today

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  327. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Here’s an-ex Zionist, telling us what they think of us.

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  328. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    Inside the deep anti semitic world of You Tube including the really nasty Bother Nathaniel,

    http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/inside-anti-semitic-youtube-racism/

    Reid ,how far to the bottom of the barrel do you like to scrape.??

    Its worth noting his alleged Jewishness has been greeted with suspicion by Stomrfront and others,

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nathanael_Kapner

    Which says a lot about their anti semitic prejudices .!

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  329. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    What precisely would you expect the zionists to say in the face of such “insider” criticism, stephie?

    I told you you can’t think. It’s a shame you’ve taken it on yourself to keep proving it. Your continual and unchanging approach is as pointless and uninformative as citing a link to the Warren Commission Report to refute an allegation about the JFK incident.

    What you need to do is look at the content and refute what he says, if you can. For example, do Jews really decry it when others call them yids or Abes and do they really call us goyim? Yes or no? Do they really call our women shiksas and does that really come from the Hebrew word shagitz which means “unclean animal?” And when Jesse Jackson referred to NYC as Hymie Town and the entire Jewish community went into an uproar and forced him to apologise, is it really true that behind closed doors Jews call blacks “schwartzas” and “shooks?” (Remember what the Seinfeld guy said about blacks? Ring a bell?) etc etc etc.

    Hope that helps, but I doubt it.

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  330. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    Gordan Duff the moreorless solo man on Veterans Today and naturally anti Jewish ,whacko and loon to boot,

    http://lies-of-the-truth-movement.blogspot.co.nz/2010/11/gordon-duff-another-truther-whack-loon.html

    Gordon Duff believes 40% of waht he writes is false ,

    http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2012/11/08/gordon-duff-of-veterans-today-admits-to-writing-40-false-information/

    Reid, and what do you call Blacks and Jews behind closed doors.??

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  331. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    This is worth reading. Free.

    http://govtslaves.info/pdf-zbigniew-brzezinski-grand-chessboard/

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  332. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    Predictably your link comes up with this priceless piece of Hokum,

    http://govtslaves.info/jeff-rense-wolfgang-halbig-exposing-sandy-hook/

    You, of course, another Sandy Nook Truther and twoofer this and twoofer that .??

    Brother Nathaniel , Duff , Resne etc sent off to FEMA Gulags.??

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  333. RichardX (326 comments) says:

    Too busy to visit the asylum and I miss the fun

    Reid (15,299 comments) says:
    April 3rd, 2014 at 12:59 pm
    dime, the idiot sat in a classroom reading a book upside down. That’s all he was required to do. Cheney meanwhile was in the WH Bunker directing the operation. Think Cheney is an idiot?

    Reid (15,305 comments) says:
    February 17th, 2014 at 11:14 am
    This is why you only have to mention say, 911 and immediately the poor victims hallucinate that you have said the US govt did it, no matter what aspect you were actually talking about.

    The VP directed the operation from the White House but it was nothing to do with the government?
    So all these hallucinations people have been having about your statements are because high ranking members of the government, working with other members of the government and using some government resources were involved, including directing the operation, but the US govt did not do it. That certainly has clarified the whole thing. Will you be using Ugly’s logic in his 1.08 comment?

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  334. RichardX (326 comments) says:

    Reid (15,309 comments) says:
    April 3rd, 2014 at 3:44 pm
    Ugly, don’t you think Reid was lying when he said Iran doesn’t persecute religious minorities?
    No I don’t lie mm, I didn’t think Iran did persecute Christians, but from looking at google, it appears they do, so I was mistaken, it appears they are

    A baseless assertion made without evidence that turns out to be incorrect is because you made a mistake and not because you told a lie. Interesting logic. Perhaps there are other comments you have made to which this could be applied?

    Reid (15,309 comments) says:
    April 3rd, 2014 at 3:56 pm
    Does Iran persecute religious minorities, Reid?
    Apparently, mm. Does Israel persecute Palestinians? Or is that just self-defence? Which does more of it – Iran or Israel?

    Your deflection skills are slipping

    Just so Shawn doesn’t fell left out, were you lying when you stated atheists believe there is no god or were you just mistaken?

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  335. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Gordan Duff the moreorless solo man on Veterans Today and naturally anti Jewish ,whacko and loon to boot,

    To be perfectly honest stephie, I don’t normally cite VT for those reasons, but I’m Lee will read this tom morning and get all enraged again. And I note that once again, you didn’t make a single attempt at critiquing whatever it was that I posted.

    Reid, and what do you call Blacks and Jews behind closed doors.??

    I don’t call blacks anything behind closed doors stephie because we have Maori in this country and they don’t respond well to being called blacks. But when I do talk about them I normally don’t call them anything since I’m normally discussing their attributes and it’s normally along the lines of how would we feel if in the late 1800’s we had had all our street signs in Chinese and we were forced to learn Mandarin at school? Why do you ask?

    When I talk about Jews behind closed doors I normally discuss examples that illustrate how disgraceful and appalling are their leaders and why don’t the idiot Jewish people wake up to what their leaders are doing to them, since apparently they’re supposed to be quite bright but they’re not displaying anything of their famous intelligence in any way and times running out for them to make the right decisions and it will be so sad when their leaders evil plans come to fruition for they themselves, the Jewish people, will suffer terribly not to mention they’ll take down most of the ME and probably the US as well, and that could have all been avoided if they’d only awoken to the evil in their midst. Again, why do you ask?

    Predictably your link comes up with this priceless piece of Hokum,

    stephie you moron your stupidity shows no bounds. I posted the link to a free book that contains some very good information that anyone whose interested in geopolitics will be interested in, if they haven’t already read it, which I have. The site it’s on has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it since you can download the damn thing to your hard drive and read it at your leisure without reading a word on the site if you don’t want to. I would have put that last sentence in caps if I thought it would help, but you’re so profoundly dim that I fear nothing will, ever.

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  336. freemark (580 comments) says:

    I’ve figured it out. Ugly is (Hue)Ross69 (or his friend).
    But my contribution to the 9/11 fire debate (and I’m a man of steel):
    Why do you think that a structure like SkyTower (predominantly concrete, and with very little flammable material) has intumescent coatings on the beams & columns at high level?
    I have a big brazier (firebowl) that even when lightly loaded with wood will melt aluminium, glass, what have you. After a reasonable burn (& party) it will retain red hot coals under the ash for up to 48 hours.
    How many tonnes of paper, wood, hydrocarbon based fabrics & paints etc etc do you think were in those Towers, with masses of oxygen, JetA1 etc?
    What a great place the world (& NZ, & KB) would be without conspiracy nuts, Jew haters, envious losers & other Socialists.
    FFS

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  337. stephieboy (3,018 comments) says:

    Zbigniew Brzezinski was a National Security Advisor under a one term failed President Carter with a prescription on International and geo politics that does not represent a relationship to current reality i.e US actions in the Middle east over the last several years.!

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  338. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    How many tonnes of paper, wood, hydrocarbon based fabrics & paints etc etc do you think were in those Towers, with masses of oxygen, JetA1 etc?

    Why don’t you leave your brazier under a large I girder for a long time at full bore and see what happens, freemark? I suspect what you’ll find is that the heat will dissipate along the beam, as steel subject to heat is wont to do.

    If you’re really interested, why don’t you look at what real engineers have calculated using the actual architecture, rather than using your bar-b-que to hallucinate you know what the answer might be?

    Hint: open your mind to the possibility you don’t already know the answer, and you might get somewhere. If you don’t do that first then you might as well join the police and investigate whether or not Arthur Thomas really did it.

    Zbigniew Brzezinski was a National Security Advisor

    stephie your ignorance is appalling. Brzezhinsky has been a major player for decades just like Kissinger has been. He was Obama’s senior foreign policy advisor during his last campaign for example, and Libya, Egypt, Syria and Ukraine have his fingerprints all over them. That’s an old book but it lays out his thinking and ALL serious geopolitical students need to be aware of what he says. The fact you’ve clearly never heard of him means I know where to classify you in those rankings, along with the housewives and 20-somethings who watch Shortland Street, apparently.

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  339. freemark (580 comments) says:

    Reid, you fuckwit. I know exactly what happens to UB’s, UC’s, UBP’s even..with all sorts of heat applied from all sorts of sources. You obviously don’t, and just sheepishly & gullibly regurgitate inane posts from inane idiots on inane websites with a common mental theme that all eventually boils down to the “Jihadists are the nice guys” and “Osama is innocent” and “I hate Corporations” and “I’ve been repressed” and “I care more than you” and “I’m a fuckup, it’s someone else’s fault” meme.
    Get fucking real, get a life, make good things happen.
    FFS

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  340. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    The home base of Reids 3.46pm video (an hour I will not get back).

    It’s origin is

    http://www.truthtellers.org/

    Ted Pike’s “National Prayer Network” in Oregon.

    Ted Pike thinks “the” Jewish attempt to rule the world is the “harlot” on the beast of Revelation prophecy and I so I guess does reid, thought they both alternate the word Zionist.

    A pithy note here

    http://archive.adl.org/learn/ext_us/pike/default.html

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  341. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    “When he left as Lee01 he’d lost the plot completely Mike. His comments had become a trainwreck in slo-mo so”

    Translation:

    Naaska hates all Christians so depicts all Christians according to his fantasies.

    I stopped posting at the time because I became tired of the constant childish abuse, often by people such as yourself.

    “‘I want to apologise to you all because my comments have been a little unchristlike’ ”

    And apologizing when things get out of hand is bad because? At least I’m adult enough to admit when I’m wrong. Shame some of the rest of you cannot. But then many of the “atheists” here show all the maturity of a sociopathic 12 year old.

    ” I didn’t take too much notice when the new, sanitised ”

    Sanitized? My views have hardly changed at all. The difference is that unlike you I have grown up a little more, while your still stuck in your adolescent angry atheist phase. What is it about me that is “sanitized” Naaska, except in your own fantasies?

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  342. ShawnLH (4,999 comments) says:

    Ryan,

    “Shawn, it is immature and unworthy of you to paint anyone who disagrees with you as a Nazi.”

    I was speaking specifically about Ugly and Reid. And as you can see by the web sites and opinions Reid links to, he is a Nazi.

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  343. Manolo (13,753 comments) says:

    Hope and change: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/03/hundreds-cases-potential-voter-fraud-uncovered-in-north-carolina/

    State elections officials in North Carolina are investigating hundreds of cases of potential voter fraud after identifying thousands of registered voters with personal information matching those of voters who voted in other states in 2012.

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  344. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ah, the old voter fraud canard. Wake me up when there are any actual prosecutions.

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  345. ste3e (118 comments) says:

    Given National are intent on turning NZ into one big dairy farm, has anybody considered the fallout from research that links dairy and animal based protein to cancer, obesity, heart disease and auto-immune diseases? What if China in the future in response to a seeming trend to acknowledge the research (eat 10 fruit a day) and a growing problem of affluent diet based diseases decrees against protein and milk, our basket of gold will become dust, polluted dust.

    Still I guess there is little probability of research impacting behavior or policy regardless of its truth or obviousness; just look at the environment and us handing out more opportunity to deep sea drill it.

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