Jones cites Greens influence as factor in departure

April 24th, 2014 at 2:00 pm by David Farrar

Claire Trevett reports:

Departing MP ’ antipathy for the Green Party went so deep he once told ’s leadership he would not be a minister if he was “second fiddle” to Green co-leader Russel Norman as deputy prime minister or in a senior economic role. …

Asked whether David Cunliffe had tried to keep him by promising a ministerial post if Labour regained the Government benches, he said he had told Labour’s leadership some time ago he would struggle to be a minister if Mr Norman or other Green MPs held senior posts.

“The Labour Party I came into is a party of New Zealanders. Some are on the left, some are on the right. The sweet spot is in the centre. I’m not interested in ever campaigning for the Green vote or going out there promoting Labour as only being able to govern if it has some sort of Green organ transplant.”

The reality is that Labour’s policies are all veering quite hard to the left. I’m going to do a more detailed blog post on this, but when you compare their policies today compared with say the Clark-Cullen Government – they have moved to the left in almost every case – and most of their new policies are Green party policies.

Stuff reports the response from the Greens:

co-leader Metiria Turei hit back this morning, calling Jones sexist and questioning the amount of voter support he brought to Labour.

“It’s probably a good thing that he’s going, he’s very much a 19th century man in a 21st century world, and I’m not sure he’s going to cope with the changes that need to come,” Turei said on Firstline.

“I think there’s been real issues around with Shane and his sexism. I think the comments he’s made and the very derogatory statements he’s made about women in the past, in particular women in authority, has been a real problem.”

She denied Jones had appeal to working class men.

“He’s claiming he’s got lots of support, but not enough that’s kept him in Parliament. I don’t know that he has a great deal of support in his caucus either because that hasn’t kept him inside Parliament.

“At the end of the day, he’s leaving. The Greens are staying. He won’t be part of government, he won’t be a minister and the Greens are intending to be so after the election on September 20,” Turei said.

The problem for the Greens is they have little chance of being in Government, unless Labour also does a deal with NZ First.  And in a piece I do agree with, Tim Watkin states the reality:

Labour and the Greens simply aren’t a viable two-party government as the polls stand, which makes New Zealand First simply vital to any potential change of government. While New Zealand First has left its options open re coalitions and there’s plenty of smart money on Winston Peters’ preference for backing National-led – or at least incumbent – government, any path to a change of government currently looks to lead through New Zealand First.

Labour’s going to have to do some serious growing to find another path to government. So as it stands, if New Zealand First tells Labour it wants a formal coalition (something history tells us Peters prefers), but it will only consider a coalition if the Greens are excluded, well, Labour will have to exclude them.

Yep. Because what else can the Greens do?

When this scenario was put to Greens co-leader Metiria Turei on The Nation she said “if they [Labour] need us for confidence and supply, they need us to be government” and if the Greens are needed, “we, the Greens, are in a very strong bargaining position”.

Except they’re not. At all. If New Zealand First said they would only go with Labour if the Greens were sidelined and Labour bowed to that demand, the Greens would have two choices: Give confidence and supply to that government, or opt out and let a National-led government stay in power. Surely they couldn’t let the latter happen, so they would have to allow themselves to be sidelined. Again.

The Greens can not abstain on supply and confidence, because then Labour and NZ First would not be able to govern.  There would either be a new election or a National-led Government.

And considering how close Jones and Peters are, can anyone imagine Peters will let the Greens become Ministers, when their influence is what drove Shane Jones out of politics?

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84 Responses to “Jones cites Greens influence as factor in departure”

  1. wreck1080 (4,001 comments) says:

    labour are being too secretive with major policies too.

    eg, this is from their website regarding taxation…

    ****
    These require serious policy changes, not tinkering. That’s why we will have:

    Capital gains tax to move from speculation to innovation,
    Universal KiwiSaver to grow our onshore investment capital,
    Monetary policy reform to back our exporters,
    R&D tax credits to encourage innovation,
    A series of industry and regional strategies that grow New Zealand’s wealth
    ****

    So, according to this you would believe labour are not going to raise personal income tax (that is a serious policy change and is omitted from their list of serious changes).

    Until labour stop being dishonest I don’t think people can trust them.

    I’m just waiting for their pre-election bribes to start flowing. I reckon , they will target some free things for students who vote with their wallets.

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  2. mjw (401 comments) says:

    I am no fan of the greens, but I’m not sure the anti-green rhetoric helps national. That could pretty seriously alienate 15% of the electorate. They might not ever be National voters, but do you really want to treat 15% of the electorate as moronic losers? What does that say about your regard for the citizens you are supposed to represent?

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  3. Huevon (231 comments) says:

    Some major butthurtness in Turei’s comments. What’s got her so wound up???

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  4. jp_1983 (237 comments) says:

    The circuit breaker bribe..

    Write all student loan debt off

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  5. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    shes quite a nasty thing eh

    i didnt realise shane had been kicked out of parliament.

    wonder how much air time she will get when the campaign is in full swing?

    what does she know about working class men? did some of them do work on her castle?

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  6. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    “They might not ever be National voters, but do you really want to treat 15% of the electorate as moronic losers?”

    this is what politics has become, the world over. nasty.

    high income earners are treated as battery hens by the left. ive lost count of how many times ive been told im “not paying my fair share”… even though my tax bill far exceeds the average wage and im a single guy. apparently im just not giving enough to the angels on the left who try sooooo hard but just need a bit more of my cash.

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  7. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    “The circuit breaker bribe..

    Write all student loan debt off”

    wouldnt surprise me. my GF will be thrilled. hers has just been paid off – years in advance..

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  8. All_on_Red (1,751 comments) says:

    Wow, such nastiness from Turei
    Maybe she needs some retail therapy. Buy a new jacket to cheer herself up. I see she’s playing the misogynist card. Poor wee diddums.

    mjw- the very nature of Green Party policies alienate themselves from the rest of the Electorate. When will Russell Norman start being honest with the NZ public about the detrimental effect their policies will have on our country?

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  9. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    mjw

    ….” They might not ever be National voters, but do you really want to treat 15% of the electorate as moronic losers?”….

    The parliamentary National Party are politicians. If there is a need for a group to pretend that Green voters are not a pack of moronic losers then NZ Actors Equity are the people to see.

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  10. unaha-closp (1,067 comments) says:

    And considering how close Jones and Peters are, can anyone imagine Peters will let the Greens become Ministers, when their influence is what drove Shane Jones out of politics?

    You’re saying there is something Winston won’t do for a bauble?

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  11. mjw (401 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  12. All_on_Red (1,751 comments) says:

    mjw
    Agree on the different approach. Some exposure by the Nats of what nutters they are would help, but perhaps that’s coming…
    Btw, the UK is utterly foolish staying in the EU. As for Farage he’s probably more honest than the current crop of political elite. Now there’s a bunch of master troughers protecting themselves and standing on the little people!

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  13. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  14. leftyliberal (651 comments) says:

    “I see she’s playing the misogynist card. ”

    That’s a pretty fair card to play, given various statements by Jones.

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  15. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    “All_on_Red – yes, but when they get up to 15% support in polls, I think a different approach is needed. International diplomacy provides some guidelines; engage with them, despite undesirable policies, and encourage them towards responsibility”

    would you be saying that if ACT were at 15%? whenever they are mentioned they just seem to be dismissed as nutjobs or whatever by labour.

    what if that skinhead dudes party got 15%?

    National have worked with the greens in the last 6 years.

    IMHO the greens are dangerous as fuck. why elevate them by treating them with respect?

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  16. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    If he was that concerned about swings to the left in labour and the power of the Greens ,he’d have stayed on and used his senior cabinet position to moderate their influence in government…..isn’t that what coalition and MMP is to a big extent about?

    Sorry but Jones is member of the permanent political class that now runs this country.

    He wanted out and got out,never mind the sorry excuses.Sounds brave but like the rest of Jones’ output is more bullshit and bluster.

    He’s been given a sinecure by National to continue to live in the fashion to which he (and the rest of the permanent political class) have become accustomed to, on you and me ,the taxpayer.That’s the real story here.

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  17. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    All_on_Red: Buy a new jacket….

    The good folk at Kemp’s Tents will be chuffed…. :D

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  18. Komata (1,220 comments) says:

    mjw

    Re: ‘National is out of touch, treats the little people with contempt, and only governs for the better off’.

    After reading the Greens and Labour responses to the Jones departure, seeing how the party leaders act, knowing that they live in very ‘posh’ houses in high-end areas and that they earn amounts that ‘the little people’ can never even dream of, surely you jest?

    BTW: How do you define ‘better off’? ‘Better-off’ compared to what?

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  19. tas (655 comments) says:

    The Greens are only polling above 10% because of the omnishambles in Labour. They talk big now, but when we get a left-wing government, Labour will have pulled itself together and will pull back those votes. Then the Greens will look (even more) like fools trying to dictate to a party four times their size.

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  20. mjw (401 comments) says:

    dime – actually, yes to all that. This is playing out in Europe in various ways. If you abuse the party you alienate their supporters, and that only tends to strengthen the party, as nobody likes a bully. Whether it is green, skinhead, right wing, whatever.

    I am personally inclined to dismiss ACT because of their low support and dismal record as politicians in recent years. But if they were at 15%, then yes I would give them more respect. I’d probably also send them a copies of On Liberty and the Road to Serfdom though, to remind them what they are supposed to be doing !

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  21. big bruv (14,224 comments) says:

    The ever expanding female co leader of the Greens is simply pissed off that she has to keep reminding people that she is also the leader of the party.

    It is clear that in the publics mind the real leader of the Greens is Wussel Norman, how it must have stuck in the ever expanding females throat that Jones did not say he could not work under Norman or Turei, Jones did not even mention Turei, that is how insignificant she actually is.

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  22. Zapper (1,048 comments) says:

    dime

    “wouldnt surprise me. my GF will be thrilled. hers has just been paid off – years in advance..”

    Same with mine. She paid off over $50K within 4 years, while living overseas and accumulating interest. She’s a Greens voter (still under 30, but some years away from enlightenment) but a policy like this would make her so angry, she might actually change teams. Or at least protest vote.

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  23. leftyliberal (651 comments) says:

    @tas: Except, the data says you’re wrong:

    http://dimpost.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/nzpolls20140410.png?w=619&h=361

    Notice how Greens are static, and movements in Labour are reflected in movement from National. This isn’t surprising as they’re the largest parties so have more propensity to vary.

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  24. davidp (3,585 comments) says:

    >“It’s probably a good thing that he’s going, he’s very much a 19th century man in a 21st century world, and I’m not sure he’s going to cope with the changes that need to come,” Turei said on Firstline.

    …says a woman who choses to live in a 12th century castle.

    On the whole, most NZers are pretty happy with the way NZ is governed. Which is why the Clark government rolled back almost none of the Douglas policies, and why National have really only tinkered around the edges of the Clark policies. We’re a moderate successful country that doesn’t need much change, and we doen’t have much appetite for the risk that major changes bring. Which is why Turei promising “I’m not sure he’s going to cope with the changes that need to come” is really scary. They’re planning to force through major change and re-make the country, and there are huge consequences if they fail.

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  25. tas (655 comments) says:

    @leftyliberal: Labour is fighting on two fronts. Sometimes votes shift between Labour and National and sometimes between Labour and the Greens. But when Labour really gets its act together (which hasn’t been the case since Clark left), I’m pretty sure they’ll win on both fronts.

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  26. thedavincimode (6,890 comments) says:

    She’s a Greens voter voter (still under 30, but some years away from enlightenment)

    Perhaps you’re doing something wrong zapper.

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  27. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    I share the view that the Greens are, as Dime puts it so succinctly, “dangerous as fuck.” Governments across the Tasman have found what happens when you try and work with them in the tent – the tents blows out or blows away.

    I do not think it is hyperbole to refer to them as a “Green Taliban”…and what party would ever consider giving executive power to the religious version?

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  28. thedavincimode (6,890 comments) says:

    This is the wonderful thing we are seeing.

    The further left the melons go and the harder liebour chases them left, the greater the prospect that the melons will always be left having to assume the position whilst the Minister of Backhanders gets all the lollies. The only way forward for them is to challenge liebour on more centrist ground and take advantage of the ineptitude and unelectability of Viscunt Clusterfuck, home renovator of The Leaves, Marine Parade, Herne Bay.

    This election is looking like it may be even more amusing than 2008 and 2011.

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  29. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    “The Greens are only polling above 10% because of the omnishambles in Labour.”

    True, and they seem to poll higher between elections than they do on election day.

    If I were a gambling man I would happily bet that at this point the chance of a Labour/Green government is close to zero.

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  30. leftyliberal (651 comments) says:

    “and sometimes between Labour and the Greens.”

    Except the data doesn’t show that. You have to at least look at the empirical results and consider whether your hypothesis is reflected in them. Net change in the Greens is relatively static over the last 2.5 years, whilst Labour has been going up and down in concert with National. The data thus suggests the only front worth fighting is the center.

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  31. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    But the Greens, even if not in power seem to have got their ecoloon policies mainstreamed.We have an ETS and green tax on fuel.

    The UK with no Greens in government have gone nuts on “renewables” at massive cost to power users…..

    The Germans are shutting their nuclear power stations (to use “dirty” coal instead hahahaha)

    meanwhile in newly sane Australia……the same thing……Abbot wants to spend $3.2 billion on “Direct Action”

    Madness.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_liberals_should_thank_palmer_for_blocking_their_carbon_waste/

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  32. leftyliberal (651 comments) says:

    @ShawnLH: If Key is happy to go with NZFirst, then it’s pretty much 100%, yup. Even without NZFirst it’s greater than 50% for National.

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  33. dime (10,222 comments) says:

    “She’s a Greens voter voter (still under 30, but some years away from enlightenment)”

    Dimes chick is 24. National voter. I also got her to cancel her monthly direct debit to greenpeace & the sea shepherd.

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  34. leftyliberal (651 comments) says:

    “We have an ETS and green tax on fuel.” Yup, about 1 cent/litre. That’s sure to do something about consumption…

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  35. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Massive cost is in your imagination kow tow

    once its brought renewable energy generation stays brought apart from maintenance costs its free for the life of the plant

    fossel fuel based you buy the generation capacity then you have to buy the fuel

    Any one here think the price of oil is going to fall? stay the same ? Nope its gonna keep rising.
    .

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  36. Zapper (1,048 comments) says:

    “Perhaps you’re doing something wrong zapper.”

    Even discussing it with her gets her extremely defensive and ends up in a huge fight. Yet if we generally discuss society, entitlement etc, she speaks my language and sounds like a National voter. Yet hates John Key and thinks he attacks the poor, despite all the evidence. I rose above my left wing upbringing by the age of about 22, it looks like a bit longer for her.

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  37. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    leftyliberal

    I’m glad you acknowledge that we have pointless “green” taxes.

    The issue isn’t the amount. The issue is that we have them.Green policies implemented by a non Green government.

    The Greens are winning and don’t even have to be in power.

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  38. hj (7,184 comments) says:

    On Nine to Noon Lyn Freemen had the U.K corespondent on “and there has been racism” (or similar) she was referring to posters by the UKIP:
    “British workers are hit hard by unlimited foreign labour”; “26 million people in Europe are looking for work, adding by a picture of a finger pointing at the reader “and whose job are they after?”; “”take back control of our country””; “75% of British laws are made in Brussels and that UK taxpayers fund the “celebrity lifestyle” of EU bureaucrats.”
    Apparently tories ignored them but Labour called them racist “and that’s the catch22 (Freedman said). If you condemn them you give them publicity”. One of her next guests opined that every issue in the world can be boiled down to one thing: racism. Feminists and “anti racists” feel they have a moral obligation to do whatever it takes to get their way so reporting the right opinions (Green Party) and ignoring others are fully justified.

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  39. Richard Hurst (885 comments) says:

    It must be about time for Labour to change their leader again. How should they chose this time? Spin the bottle? Short straw? Pick a name out of a hat? Musical chairs? Or just admit the truth and appoint Russell and Turei.

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  40. mjw (401 comments) says:

    hj – Agreed, that is the big danger on the left. Once you believe you are morally right, it is so easy to take the view that the ends justify the means. Hayek laid all this out beautifully. So although i want a change of government now, I would only want Labour in for two terms, as after that they will likely start to degenerate (just as the Nats are now starting to degenerate into plutocrats.)

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  41. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Hayek laid all this out beautifully.

    And you believe that kook?

    You people are morons.

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  42. Manolo (14,179 comments) says:

    Although Labour is in a sorry state, it is still a dangerous political force. Given the percentage of imbeciles that prop the Greens every election, the socialists could end up forming a government in unholy alliance with the venal Peters.

    No sensible person can vote for Labour or the Greens. It’s a vote against NZ.

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  43. mjw (401 comments) says:

    You should read him Tom. He was in favour of free markets AND a welfare state. He was okay with government provided it was less than about 40% of GDP. He saw the need to restrain business as well as government. I wish ACT followed his principles. But it seems that not even the Mont Pellerin society is very Hayekian any more. His memory has been hijacked by plutocrats peddling their own special interests.

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  44. leftyliberal (651 comments) says:

    “The issue isn’t the amount.”

    I’d be happy with them dropping it completely, as long as the insane spending on roads was brought to an end.

    Vehicle kms travelled per person continues to decline, car ownership continues to decline, and drivers licensing also continues to decline.

    Spread those billions a lot further by encouraging other modes of transport, such as active modes that lower public health costs and increase health. They’re not only cheaper, they’re safer.

    At the moment we’re hooked on petrol, and this Government is set on maintaining that addiction by building more and more roads in the absence of need. It’s an insane waste of money, even if you don’t want to spend on other modes.

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  45. deadrightkev (610 comments) says:

    Turei is a nasty piece of work and New Zealand would not miss her or her communist co leader for a second should they decide to go back to their caves. The Green fairy movement needs a dose of Epsom salts at the top. Maybe a cleanout after this election.

    It is interesting watching the internal machination’s going on. David Cunliffe is latched onto the Greens and dead in the water.

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  46. leftyliberal (651 comments) says:

    “Turei is a nasty piece of work and New Zealand would not miss her or her communist co leader for a second should they decide to go back to their caves.”

    But you’re lovely, right kev?

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  47. unaha-closp (1,067 comments) says:

    The right wing offering no viable AGW policy leaves a massive vacuum in politics that can only be fulled by left socialist leaning solutions.

    Huh, the left’s environmental policy is a fig leaf to the environmental destruct wrought by its economic policy. The lefts economic policy is to waste as much money as possible as soon as possible.

    The lefts solution to everything is to spend money now and when that doesn’t work spend more money. They try to buy, buy, buy the way out of recession. How does this qualify as preventing wasteful consumption of resources? If you were truly concerned about AGW you could never vote for any Keynesian economic policy.

    once its brought renewable energy generation stays brought apart from maintenance costs its free for the life of the plant

    Unfortunately in several renewable sectors (wind, solar, biofuel) the amount of energy needed to construct and operate the unit exceeds the amount produced. If producing 100 units of green energy in NZ requires 110 units of energy worldwide, it doesn’t help stop AGW.

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  48. Psycho Milt (2,429 comments) says:

    If New Zealand First said they would only go with Labour if the Greens were sidelined and Labour bowed to that demand, the Greens would have two choices: Give confidence and supply to that government, or opt out and let a National-led government stay in power. Surely they couldn’t let the latter happen, so they would have to allow themselves to be sidelined. Again.

    Industrial-strength bollocks.

    1. If Winston First remain in Parliament, chances are National also will need them to form a government, in which case there will be a straggling mess of a Nat/ACT/MP/Sundry-Carpetbaggers/Winston-First government and Labour won’t be holding any discussions with anybody.

    2. In the astonishingly unlikely event that National failed to offer Winston greater baublery than Labour, how much credibility could Labour seriously expect a government with maybe 40% of the House to have? It’s a non-starter.

    3. In the astonishingly unlikely etc, Cunliffe sits down with Norman and Turei and tells them Winston says No. Norman and Turei ask Cunliffe if he really wants to tell the country that a fraudster with a party on ca 5-8% of the vote is ordering him about, which is exactly how they’re going to spin this to the media if he doesn’t tell Winnie where to get off.

    In short, no the Greens aren’t anything like as fucked as Tim Watkin thinks they are.

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  49. Prince (109 comments) says:

    I see some are still proposing that NZ First might go with National post-election.
    I can assure you that will never happen.
    The animosity between Key and Peters runs deep, and most of National’s cabinet will not want to spend 3 years on the precipice.

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  50. OneTrack (3,376 comments) says:

    “At the end of the day, he’s leaving. The Greens are staying. He won’t be part of government, he won’t be a minister and the Greens are intending to be so after the election on September 20,” Turei said.”

    Which is another way of saying the Greens now have even more influence over the Labour party. Speak out against the Greens and you are shunned.

    I think it’s clear Jones made the right decision. He wouldn’t have been a Minister and he would have been working under Norman (or Turei). Life is too short for a work environment like that. And all the hard-lefties crowing that they are glad he has gone and he never belonged in the new Labour Party anyway, just proves that the situation he would have been working in, would have been exactly as he feared.

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  51. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    leftyliberal

    We’re hooked on petrol and spend too much on the roads and need alternatives………

    So a horse for every household then?

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  52. jcuk (760 comments) says:

    Instead of culling the Desert Road horses Kowtow? :)

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  53. RightNow (7,015 comments) says:

    “So a horse for every household then?”

    I think Jacinda’s election hopes depend on every household for a horse.

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  54. tom hunter (5,134 comments) says:

    I can assure you that will never happen.
    The animosity between Key and Peters runs deep, …

    I’ve no doubt that Peter’s animosity towards Key runs deep, but given everything I’ve ever read about the man I doubt that Key gives an emotional shit about Winston.

    In any case political history around the world is replete with stories of politicians who hated each other making nice-nice when power is at stake, the most recent major example being Obama and the Clinton’s.

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  55. wat dabney (3,850 comments) says:

    “Greens co-leader Metiria Turei hit back this morning…”

    Jones has been attacked by the Clothes Horse.

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  56. jcuk (760 comments) says:

    After visiting The Standard and The Daily Blog to see the leftwing reaction to Shane Jones resignation I think he has done a good thing for himself to be shot of the retards. There is no reason to think he will not continue to think as a socialist but without supporting the party etc.

    An interesting fact from the past is that an ACT ‘leader’ who had in the past been a Labour Minister stating that National was not the only natural partner but they would be happy to link up with Labour …. unfortunately such rational thinking is not heard from ACT these days I think …. of course I am no longer a member :)

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  57. Longknives (4,968 comments) says:

    Someone told me Turei was proudly wearing her ‘White Poppy’ on TV today. (Just to ‘stick it up’ the war vets..)
    What a vile human being she is…Regardless of political affiliations on the 100th anniversary you’d think she could at least shut up and back off out of respect for the thousands of kiwi soldiers who gave their lives..

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  58. dog_eat_dog (787 comments) says:

    Jp_, I suspect you are right. Desperate times are going to call for desperate measures. I’d personally welcome writing off all students loans, but I’ll be entirely honest say that’s because I’ve got one.

    I would, however, also be OK with nilling the outstanding balances of all student loans if it were part of wider tertiary reform. At the moment the quality of our tertiary education is slipping when compared to other institutions, fees keep going up and students are have little choice but to fork over more and more for a less competitive education. Universities have benefited from a huge range of fields needed a degree to simply even be able to apply for a job, when in reality there are a lot of jobs that could be taught through evening classes. Doing so with subjects like accounting and law would also allow those already in the workforce the chance to upskill, whereas most people do not get to develop new skillsets as there are few classes outside of working hours.

    Either way, you can be sure the longer Labour languishes, the bigger the explosive bribes will get.

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  59. gump (1,685 comments) says:

    @Longknives

    I don’t really have a problem with people wearing white poppies.

    I don’t think my great Grand-dad would have a problem with it either. However I can’t ask him about it as he was killed in Ypres during the Battle of Passchendaele in 1917.

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  60. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    jcuk: What a pity you are not still an ACT member…If you were, you might have enjoyed – as I did – hearing Key speak at a party fundraiser last night. He was surprisingly frank in his assessment of where things are, and the poll results he revealed to the audience were most interesting. He was obviously pleased by the Jones development, and why wouldnt he be?

    Key spoke for about 20 minutes, entirely without notes, and his speech was both informative and amusing. He really thrives in such medium size gatherings…Cunliffe comes across as a total phoney in similar situations – and the polls apparently show that his putative audience thinks so too..

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  61. tvb (4,560 comments) says:

    Turei is totally up herself thinking she will be a Minister and then she can really start bossing people around. Her move to ugly designer clothing that emphasises her ample figure only adds to the unattractive mix.

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  62. itstricky (2,027 comments) says:

    After visiting The Standard and The Daily Blog to see the leftwing reaction to Shane Jones resignation I think he has done a good thing for himself to be shot of the retards.

    Whilst the non-retards of KB resort to fashion and facial put downs. You’re quite right; I expect to see many of The Standard pseudonyms here with the non-retards any day now so they can sling petty insults at overweight people like little attention seeking bullies in the playground as well.

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  63. itstricky (2,027 comments) says:

    Oh and look – the non-retards down voted gump’s salutation to his late great grandfather as well. Sometimes it is all class around here.

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  64. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Silly little Sausage Woman. She still hasn’t looked in the mirror and worked out that her and her squeaky voiced little Aussie buddy don’t cut it with NZ voters. Doomed to being 10 percenter’s for all eternity! :)

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  65. lolitasbrother (774 comments) says:

    We have to be serious have to be serious about this.
    There will be a a NZ Nat coalition Government in 2014.
    How can we take our Country to even more strength.
    It will not be easy, but we can do it, because the election is won,
    now I want ideas for the incoming Government to think about

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  66. Wayne Mapp (69 comments) says:

    I reckon the resignation is all about Shane’s pathway to becoming the successor to Winston in NZF. It beens speculated about with some significant evidence. The problem was how to actually make the transfer.

    For the transfer to have credibility he had to exit Labour and this could not be after the 2014 election. So he gets a 2/3 year job that keeps him connected.

    In 2015/16 he joins NZF as a member. In the 2017 election he comes into Parliament on the NZF list. Sometime after the 2017 election, Winston steps down, and Shane becomes the Leader of NZF.

    And Shane will have the capacity to build the NZF vote, and be the permanent party in govt.

    And by doing this Winston has ensured that his legacy lives on.

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  67. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    “And by doing this Winston has ensured that his legacy lives on.”

    One wanker replaces another! :)

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  68. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    Wayne Mapp, a great scenario to be sure but it presupposes Winnie will be there later this year and still be alive in 2017.

    Having see Winnie earlier this year the latter is not a certainty, the former, based on recent publicly published polls even less so.

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  69. Psycho Milt (2,429 comments) says:

    I see some are still proposing that NZ First might go with National post-election.
    I can assure you that will never happen.
    The animosity between Key and Peters runs deep, and most of National’s cabinet will not want to spend 3 years on the precipice.

    Oh yeah, I don’t doubt the entire National caucus will volunteer to go into opposition to save Key the embarrassment of giving Winston an expensive sinecure – there’s bound to be at least one parallel universe out there in which that might happen…

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  70. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Key will resign shortly after the election victory.

    Prime Minister Joyce and Deputy Prime Minister Peters will lead Godzone on towards the 22nd century.

    Silent and Wussel/Bonewoman will depart into the mists of obscurity.

    Bill English will replace Wheeler as RBNZ Governor.

    Judith will be appointed Minister for Agriculture and Chinese Relations! :)

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  71. jcuk (760 comments) says:

    itstricky … don’t forget there are similar folk here in KB. R….. is only the current word for them
    David Garrett …. No not a pity becuase ACT today is not the party I joined

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  72. peterwn (3,338 comments) says:

    psycho milt – There is a big difference between Labour’s and National’s situations. As things stand Labour needs support from both Greens and NZ First at best and will probably needs Mana and Maori Party support as well. Greens have nowhere to go except to support Labour, so their bargaining position is weak.

    National, on the other hand, at worst, needs NZ First support only. In that case John Key would take on board to some extent ACT, United Future and Maori parties, but they would have minimal influence.

    If the antics of any minor party forces a by-election, it would most likely play into National’s hands. Admittedly Winston could change the government short of a by-election, but presumably if he ‘changes’ the government too many times, the Governor General would call an election.

    Even if Winston can wrangle being called Deputy Prime Minister, he would never be allowed to be acting Prime Minister. The Prime Minister would have someone else lined up for that if need be.

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  73. Psycho Milt (2,429 comments) says:

    Even if Winston can wrangle being called Deputy Prime Minister, he would never be allowed to be acting Prime Minister. The Prime Minister would have someone else lined up for that if need be.

    Yeah, damn right – if Labour needs Winston First in order to govern, he’ll be in a powerful position and tellng them what to do, because they’re all like weak and shit, but if National needs Wnston First in order to goverrn, he’ll be in a totally weak position and have to take whatever Mr Key is willing to give him, because National is all like strong and full of integrity and shit. That is so how it will go down…

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  74. Mark (1,502 comments) says:

    Labour will not go close in this election. The lurch to the left under cunliffe scares the crap out thinking Kiwis. The way Labour is in free fall currently there has to be a good chance by the election that NAtional will govern on its own

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  75. Viking2 (11,686 comments) says:

    The loss of Shane Jones is real for all of us

    April 24th, 2014

    The gloating over Labour’s discomfiture since Shane Jones’ loss of patience with Damien O’Connor’s “gaggle of gays and unionists” should not disguise New Zealand’s loss.

    Shane Jones was the Maori leader most likely to end the intelligentsia’s disastrous experiment with Treaty separatism. Recall that he was not only showing Labour Party leadership credentials when he bluntly denounced Auckland’s racist Unitary Plan requirements for “cultural impact assessments”. When he did not back down, and instead elaborated, he was also putting in a claim to lead the country out of the constitutional swamp.

    http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/mana-whenua-rights-trash-treaty-rights/

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  76. Paulus (2,712 comments) says:

    Winnie will be there in 2017, along with his nurse, and his Zimmer frame.
    He will try and get his electric cart approved and paid for as a part of his Parliamentary entitlement, like the Greens hearing aid.

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  77. OneTrack (3,376 comments) says:

    “The way Labour is in free fall currently there has to be a good chance by the election that NAtional will govern on its own”

    It won’t hurt to happen once. Maybe a shock below 20% poll rating would wake Labour up.

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  78. OneTrack (3,376 comments) says:

    Viking – Except that one of the reasons he left parliament is likely because of all the stick he most certainly got from the Labour elite, after he said all those things.

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  79. Viking2 (11,686 comments) says:

    Don’t forget to add the fellow travellers in the National Party.

    But when Shane Jones has gone who will have the courage and the wisdom to denounce the racists’ seduction of Maori into trampling the property rights of their Auckland neighbours? They will be doing just what so many Treaty grievance processes have set out to redress.

    Not the National Party will they?

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  80. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    The reality is that Labour’s policies are all veering quite hard to the left. I’m going to do a more detailed blog post on this, but when you compare their policies today compared with say the Clark-Cullen Government – they have moved to the left in almost every case – and most of their new policies are Green party policies.

    I believe the reason they have moved further left is due to National occupying the ground they previously held. This means Labour must veer further left or move to the right of National.

    It was a clever move by National. Key knows we Kiwis are a bunch of socialists and gives enough concessions to socialism to stay in power and allow some rightist policies through. He knows that if he goes too far with it he will be out of a job very smartly.

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  81. OneTrack (3,376 comments) says:

    Kea – No, the Labour Party has been effectively purged of any right-leaning tendencies over the last few years. The Labour Party is veering hard left because their remaining people are hard-left. Jones was effectively contructively dismissed. The apparatchiks are glad he has gone.

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  82. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    OneTrack, I am not sure that observation undermines my point. My theory might provide the reason why the right-leaning have been purged.

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  83. big bruv (14,224 comments) says:

    Welcome back Kea.

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  84. lolitasbrother (774 comments) says:

    NZ Nat Government 2014

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