Key Derangement Syndrome hits a new low

April 2nd, 2014 at 2:00 pm by David Farrar

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Toothfish is an anonymous environmental activist, who has facebooked this poster which he or she wants donations for, so they can run at least 1,000 of them.

41 people on Facebook have “liked” the poster including former Green candidate and social media campaigner Max Coyle. Now to be fair to the Greens, I am sure the vast majority of them would find the poster as disgusting as the rest of us. There is a reason Coyle is “former” with them.

Personally I hope he/she gets lots of donations for his or her campaign as I can’t think of anything more likely to increase support for National than people seeing those posters.

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195 Responses to “Key Derangement Syndrome hits a new low”

  1. tvb (4,554 comments) says:

    They cannot handle the political success of John Key by getting personal they underline their weakness roll on September and they will be crushed again and again and again.1

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  2. Duncan Bayne (17 comments) says:

    “I am sure the vast majority of them would find the poster as disgusting as the rest of us.”

    Really? These are the same folks who wear Che and Mao merchandise (oh, the irony). I’d have thought a poster of Hitler would be right up their alley.

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  3. RAS (63 comments) says:

    You have waaaaay too much faith in the typical Green voter if you think they’d be offended by this poster.

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  4. King Kong (48 comments) says:

    DPF is being too kind to the Greens. They will all think this is great (it will take Metiria a while to get her face out of the pastry’s to see it, but she will like it when she does).
    The Greens are total cock wombles who want to destroy our standard of living.

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  5. doggone7 (846 comments) says:

    One of the things about a ‘free press’ I suppose is that some who are quiet when “disgusting” graphics are shown depicting some people and aspects of our society, go totally ape when they think there are “disgusting” graphics which impugn someone they like.

    A bit like Koran burning being well received in some places while the Bible is sacred and untouchable, and vice versa.

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  6. SW (249 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  7. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    So they are saying money is bad? If that’s the case, lets give less of it to those on the bene and other left wing causes.

    This sort of shit appeals to those who cant wait to vote green or hone anyway. The rest of us just become desensitised.

    Would printing 1000 posters like this and plastering them around the place be legal under that glorious bill labour/dung & co put through in 08?

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  8. hannity (152 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  9. Manolo (14,169 comments) says:

    The Greens are total cock wombles who want to destroy our standard of living.

    Hear, hear. The communist Greens are very dangerous, indeed.

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  10. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    For a supposed “artist”, his intelligent insights seem non-existent.

    “John Key is a big meanie!”. Ohhh….kay. The Green leaders look like Kermit and Miss Piggy. Let’s make a poster. It will be frightfully witty and everyone will think me so very cwever.

    Yawn.

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  11. tas (655 comments) says:

    The comparison of mild-mannered John Key to a fascist dictator is laughable. The author clearly has either never studied history or has completely lost touch with reality.

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  12. Nick R (522 comments) says:

    Yes, DPF, it is truly appalling that anyone would compare our PM to an evil dictator.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0712/S00254.htm

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  13. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    “Cock wombles”…that’s a new one!! I think I like it…

    But seriously…it’s a bit sad isnt it? That that’s their best effort?? Once I recovered from spasms of laughter at King Kong’s comment, sadly I think I agree with him…the Greens seem obsessed with Key and his money…

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  14. redqueen (596 comments) says:

    Am I the only one who thinks this is actually a bit funny?

    The mixing of imagery is fantastic. Can you imagine the meeting? ‘Hey guys, let’s depict JK as an evil capitalist…let’s use the imagery of a vegetarian socialist who was obsessed with apparently limited natural resources…’ If these are supposed Greenies, didn’t at least someone think, ‘Wait a tick…’ or are they really that daft?

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  15. Cunningham (846 comments) says:

    When are these people going to realise attacking Key is NOT going to win them any support (in fact it probably lose them support)? You’d think after this many years they would get the message but no they continue to make wankers of themselves by doing it over and over.

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  16. lolitasbrother (774 comments) says:

    20 demerit points Farrar, pull self together. You do not post garbage

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  17. redqueen (596 comments) says:

    @Cunningham

    They’re not making wankers of themselves…they are wankers. That’s the problem.

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  18. Nuwanda (83 comments) says:

    “I’d have thought a poster of Hitler would be right up their alley.”

    Precisely. Any criticism of the image would be entirely affected. It’s the Green and Labourite worldview made art.

    That said, Key and National are pragmatic Third Way centrists occupying ground — and in some cases somewhat to the left of — where Labour was ’84-’87. Further, and to that point, if the Nats had campaigned in the 1950s-1960s with their modern centrist position of the high tax, politically correct, conformist, regulatory state they’d have been called socialists and posters akin to the above would certainly have been used against them.

    And with good reason. And that’s worth thinking about.

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  19. burt (7,425 comments) says:

    Key should sign and sell this !!!!!

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  20. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Don’t be silly. Likening your enemies to Hitler is the essence of democratic politics. In trying to suppress such expression DPF is behaving like… well, you know… ;-)

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  21. KiwiGreg (3,278 comments) says:

    The portrait (uniform and symbols to one side) is actually rather flattering. Does the artist have a crush on JK?

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  22. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    Comparing a politician to authoritarian dictators is one thing. Comparing someone with Jewish ancestry to Hitler is just plain sick.

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  23. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    [DPF: they didn’t. The FSC did billboards attacking all the supporters of the EFA – Clark, Dunne, Greens and Peters with various authoritarian types praising their actions. That was satire and was aimed at their support for that law. It did not depict them as dictators. It was making the point that their law was an authoritarian one – which it was]

    You could say the same of this poster and Key’s policies. I don’t think that the authors believe that Key is a dictator, but they think he has authoritarian policies.

    I’m afraid your hypocrisy is showing.

    Anyway, Murray McCully makes a better Hitler than Key, and shave Collins hair and she’d be a dead ringer for Mussolini.

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  24. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  25. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    Quite a pathetic effort by Toothfish.

    How sad it is that the left despises success. If you’re on a low income then that’s fine with them but *become successful* and make some money and you’ve risen above your station and are evil. What a ridiculous and *narrow-minded* attitude to have.

    We on the right WANT people to succeed. We *want* children to go through the charter schools and get an excellent education.
    The more people who succeed, the more employers there will be and the more jobs.
    Oh, what a **terrible terrible** attitude eh…… /sarcasm

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  26. mandk (1,030 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson says: “In trying to suppress such expression …”

    Did you actually read what DPF said? Here’s a reminder:

    “Personally I hope he/she gets lots of donations for his or her campaign as I can’t think of anything more likely to increase support for National than people seeing those posters”

    How does this represent an effort to suppress expression?

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  27. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    *narrow-minded* attitude

    Having mixed with that crowd, way back when I was a student, and embarrassingly left (sorry), I can confirm you are correct. The “scene”, particularly in Wellington, is populated by the most narrow-minded, talentless w*nkers on the planet. Their politics are uniform and unquestioningly conformist left.

    And it’s a pose. They grew up middle class.

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  28. peterwn (3,333 comments) says:

    Do they come with extra sticky adhesive backing – the sort that lifts paint or printing ink when trying to remove them from election hoardings?

    I dunno. A party has to get permission, pay a bond and stick to all sorts of picky rules when erecting election hoardings. And yet these clowns want to print off this sort of rubbish for fly-posting all around the place. There is no ‘authorisation’ on it either.

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  29. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    “Personally I hope he/she gets lots of donations for his or her campaign as I can’t think of anything more likely to increase support for National than people seeing those posters”

    So we can post pics of Nats done up as Nazis? Cool.

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  30. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (1,009 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 2:40 pm
    Comparing a politician to authoritarian dictators is one thing. Comparing someone with Jewish ancestry to Hitler is just plain sick.

    and yet last week, that was happening on here, with great abandonment. K.D.C. has jewish ancestry on his mother’s side.
    So from this we get, its okay for some to do it, but not others, depending on which political party they support ?

    Great message to pass on to the kids – play ground stuff on both sides – time they all grew up!

    Honestly, if the Boy Scouts start a party for the next election, they’ll get my vote, they can’t be any worse than what is on offer.

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  31. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    We on the right WANT people to succeed.

    Only so they can then stamp on the little people and order them around.

    tumeke bro

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  32. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    and yet last week, that was happening on here, with great abandonment. K.D.C. has jewish ancestry on his mother’s side.
    So from this we get, its okay for some to do it, but not others, depending on which political party they support ?

    Nicely spotted.

    This blog grows ever more comical…

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  33. Igotta Numbum (467 comments) says:

    Tom & Judith,

    The difference was that last week, noone had to photoshop KDC in nazi gear, he was already wearing it.

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  34. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Of course the people on the right want everyone to succeed, but you forgot to add ‘by our terms’.

    The definition of success varies from person to person.

    What you see as successful might not be what others see. Success in my mind is being self-sufficient and content. Others think success is getting a great high off their next fix. You really gotta be careful with words like ‘success’.

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  35. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    The difference was that last week, noone had to photoshop KDC in nazi gear, he was already wearing it.

    I see. Someone put a joke Nazi helmet on Kim Doctom as a joke because he was German, so it’s OK to compare him to Hitler, but not John Key whom nobody has festooned with comical fake war memorabilia.

    Good to know.

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  36. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    Key should sign and sell this !!!!!

    I agree. Key has never looked so good. If the person behind this really hated Key, there are any number of silly expressions Key could have been landed with. Even his Jewish schnoz looks respectable. :)

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  37. Simon (780 comments) says:

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  38. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    The slightly crooked mouth has a hint of Muldoon.

    Honestly, bring back Piggy. He was twice the man Key ever was (and he tried to show the ladies at every opportunity too).

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  39. Yoza (1,926 comments) says:

    Hilarious, a week of solid mudslinging in an attempt to paint Kim Dotcom as some kind of modern day Nazi sympathizer and now a flood of tears now Key is being portrayed in a similar manner. At least someone’s boomerang came back.

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  40. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Igotta Numbum (396 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 3:14 pm

    There is a video of Key acting like a trans sexual and another walking like girl on a catwalk – so by your standards, what does that say about him? Our first ‘gay’ PM with just the closet door to open? NO it doesn’t say that at all, does it?

    There are lots of reasons for KDC to wear that helmet and most of them have nothing sinister about them – you really need to watch those double standards – that whole thing was nothing but a desperate beat up. KDC is in a mixed ethnicity marriage with children of mixed ethnicity – which proves beyond any doubt that he is not a NAZI.

    This example is another beat up, and childish, and one might say ‘tit for tat’. Get over it – you’re all hypocrites – on both sides.

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  41. georgedarroch (303 comments) says:

    David, an organisation you led put up billboards all around the country comparing the Prime Minister and Greens to various murderous dictators.

    Did you ever apologise for this?

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  42. Ross Miller (1,618 comments) says:

    So sad in one sense and a brilliant ‘own-goal’ by the left. All it does is to remind one how genuinely pathetic they are with the moderate left (if there is such a thing) tainted with guilt by association.

    A few months ago I thought the election was shaping up as too close to call … not now. With this and krim.com and the nice Mr Cunliffe managing to insert foot into mouth each time he opens it (ergo his outburst on the ICJ decision) my pick is that the left, in all its sad forms, are going to be decimated.

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  43. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    His Facebook page has some very amusing comments. He’s being widely slammed for his latest “work” by his own followers. He’s succeeded in uniting many on the left and right against him!

    Monumental fail.

    One comment:

    “This isn’t a ‘bold, edgy, statement’. It is a lazy, politically awful poster with a message that only succeeds in turning off the very people it tries to reach, while simultaneously trivialising the systemic murder of millions (including many of my ancestors). As a Jew, as a staunch leftie and as someone who actually wants a real change at this election, please get rid of this awful poster”

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  44. Ross Miller (1,618 comments) says:

    Judith 3.23 … and the Nazi flag bit?

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  45. pidge (56 comments) says:

    And they Godwinned themselves right out of the gate. You’re supposed to wait to later in the argument when you’re losing to do that!

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  46. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Nobody should ever laugh at anything to do with Hitler or the Nazis, ever…

    I want to see one where he reacts to Cunliffe’s election as the Labour leader.

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  47. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Ross Miller (1,624 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 3:27 pm

    Bloody childish, a bit like the photos/drawings that appeared of Helen in various derogatory situations.

    You can argue as much as you like, but Nationals history is not enviable either, and for every image you produce that you find insulting towards Key, I’m damn sure there is one equally revolting produced about others by National supporters.

    It’s time this crap stopped by all sides and they got on with telling us what we need to know to sort out our votes. You cannot feign insult when your team is just as bloody bad.

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  48. rangitoto (263 comments) says:

    Key depicted as leader of the German Socialist Workers party. Pretty unlikely he would ever want to lead the far left.

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  49. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Key depicted as leader of the Socialist Workers party

    Don’t be a moron. The National Socialist German Workers Party was about as socialist as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is democratic, or the Korean Workers’ Party represents the interests of Korean Workers.

    You guys have to eat Hitler, like we have to eat Stalin.

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  50. Keeping Stock (9,380 comments) says:

    Whoever would have thought that Judith (3.23pm) was homophobic?

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  51. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ KS

    Who ever would have thought that someone as intelligent as you could only come up with that pathetic insult? Forget your weetbix this morning old boy? ;-)

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  52. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Whoever would have thought that Judith (3.23pm) was homophobic?

    Posted on a blog that has one of the highest incidences of virulent anti-gay comments in the New Zealand blogosphere.

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  53. rangitoto (263 comments) says:

    “The National Socialist German Workers Party was about as socialist as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is democratic, or the Korean Workers’ Party represents the interests of Korean Workers.”

    History teaches us that totalitarian governments are the usual end game of socialism.

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  54. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    History teaches us that totalitarian governments are the usual end game of socialism.

    Not if you actually studied it.

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  55. spector (159 comments) says:

    Hate to be picky, but the swastika armband is on the wrong arm and the ‘deaths-head’ insignia was only ever present on a black or grey garment. Not brown.

    Just saying…

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  56. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    “You guys have to eat Hitler, like we have to eat Stalin.”

    *shakes head*

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  57. RightNow (7,014 comments) says:

    @Judith “It’s time this crap stopped by all sides and they got on with telling us what we need to know to sort out our votes.”

    I follow both John Key and David Cun’liffe on Facebook. John Key’s posts are always “we’ve had success in doing this, here’s me having a pint with some locals, congratulations to such and such for their achievements” etc etc. A bit boring and safe and devoid of the negative politics I so enjoy.
    David Cun’liffe on the other hand isn’t afraid to get down and dirty and post lots of anti-Key anti-National messages. It’s way more interesting and the comments are as good as any you’d get on the Daily Blog or the Standard.

    So carry on Cun’liffe, you’re doing a heck of a job, your sycophants are lapping that shit up. You’ll be attracting swing voters left, left and left.

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  58. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    David Cun’liffe on the other hand isn’t afraid to get down and dirty and post lots of anti-Key anti-National messages. It’s way more interesting and the comments are as good as any you’d get on the Daily Blog or the Standard.

    How odd that the leader of the opposition would do such things.

    Iwi/Kiwi?

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  59. rangitoto (263 comments) says:

    “You guys have to eat Hitler, like we have to eat Stalin.”

    You can keep Hitler along with Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and the rest of your heroes. So don’t say I’m not generous.

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  60. Grendel (1,013 comments) says:

    Dont you love how apparently the National Socialist German Workers party is apparently the forefather of a free market , personal responsibility advocates party?

    I know that for the ‘Left’ anything that is bad is ‘right wing’ and since the nazis were bad, that must mean they are same as the right wing.

    i took one look at the muppet ‘artists’ page and the first thing i saw showed their true colours. some one offered to pay, just so they would NOT run the posters. the anti capitalist activisits responds “how much”, you could almost see the drool as they thought they might get paid.

    that looks like a true to their beliefs anti capitalist (on facebook no less, a domain of capitalism).

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  61. twofish (108 comments) says:

    It doesn’t really look at all like Hone Harawira – glasses may have helped, just to start with.

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  62. kris (2 comments) says:

    Anonymous? Some rather interesting information appears if you enter the domain name “toothfish.org” into a public whois tool:
    Registrant Name:[deleted by DPF]
    Registrant Organization:
    Registrant Street: [deleted by DPF]
    Registrant City:Wellington
    Registrant Email:support at wonderwebs.com

    [deleted by DPF]

    I’ve deleted some data here as the person named is not the registrant, but just a web host]

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  63. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Rightnow

    I don’t follow any of them on facebook, which I keep only for the important people in my life – family and friends, so I wouldn’t know what is on those pages.

    I have no doubt Key says everything perfect, he has the most admirable PR team, and has had from the beginning. Of course he says it better, but words are cheap, and actions, especially deep actions don’t always match them.

    From my experience with Key, he hasn’t fulfilled the words, however, on the flip side, I have no experience of anything to with David Cunliffe, other than what he did to Shearer. For that reason I have very little respect for him. Shearer wouldn’t have won this next election, but I believe with a couple more years experience, could have been a leader for Labour supporters to respect. I believe Shearer has a quality that both Key and Cunnliffe lack.

    I don’t know whether Cunliffe would make a good leader or not, and even if by some chance a left coalition was the next Government, I don’t think he would last long. IMO he is tolerated – just – but he is by no means a stayer.

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  64. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Dont you love how apparently the National Socialist German Workers party is apparently the forefather of a free market , personal responsibility advocates party?

    Fascists are just conservatives who don’t get their own way. Read Robert Paxton.

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  65. Fentex (1,136 comments) says:

    It reminds me of the famous observation that academic politics are so very vicious because the stakes are so low.

    New Zealand governing hasn’t changed much in policy for decades, and while I dislike National it’s more about what I think they hold for the future than any suggestion their actions to date have been fascist.

    This sort of childish attitude seems an attempt to gin up anger on an absence of an ability to express actual issues to differentiate parties, and I suspect DPF is quite right (from the perspective of a National supporter) to hope it gains enough popularity to taint opponents who associate themselves with it, as that is all it will achieve among adults and the precious middle voter.

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  66. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    In the TV3 interview, he said he didn’t want to tell people what to think, just to think.

    Condescending attitude aside, one wonders if he believes it, as he appears to be getting very defensive on his Facebook page as a result of people thinking for themselves and deciding his “art” is a misfire.

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  67. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    People used to say terrible, awful things about Muldoon (not all of which were false). His response: “They aren’t hard enough on me”.

    Even if you hated Muldoon, it was hard not to respect him. We don’t make politicians like him any more. Ours just go crying to the teacher when people say mean things.

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  68. Yoza (1,926 comments) says:

    Anyone watching the Fox News channel has the opportunity of witnessing how the Nazi party came to power and I doubt anyone could describe that kind of power worshipping nonsense left-wing.

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  69. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (900 comments) says:

    This is too low even for the scums of the leftie world….

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  70. thedavincimode (6,890 comments) says:

    Spare me the faux outrage and indignation folks. I couldn’t care less and I doubt Key would either. The reality is that as the Headmaster infers, this only puts people off.

    I suggest that anyone feeling a bit indignant should instead make a donation to this loser. The puerile tool will inevitably be linked with the melons when the media comes calling, so the more of these posters about the better. I’ll be calling “own goal” on that.

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  71. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    Those bloody right wing Nazis!

    “We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens.”

    “Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.”

    “We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts”

    “We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.”

    “The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program”

    and of course they loved free trade, immigration etc etc

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  72. mandk (1,030 comments) says:

    @ Tom Jackson
    You’ve got a lot to say for yourself this afternoon.
    How about answering my question?

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  73. Kimble (3,955 comments) says:

    David, an organisation you led put up billboards all around the country comparing the Prime Minister and Greens to various murderous dictators.

    Source?

    You want to put up a few of those posters for comparison?

    No?

    Let me see what I can do then.

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  74. BroadArrow (6 comments) says:

    “Considering how many times supporters of Israel compare their opponents to Hitler, this card has become worn and dog eared.”

    Not so often. It’s usually reserved for people or regimes that say they want to eliminate Jews or Israel, which is a fairer comparison.

    Ironically, it’s become fashionable for the anti-Israel lobby to portray it as a NAZI regime and that’s the far more frequent (but also absurd) comparison.

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  75. Kimble (3,955 comments) says:

    1. http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0712/a634bc2dd4ea7dcedc21.jpeg

    2. http://cdn.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/fsc-auckland.JPG

    3. http://cdn.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/fsc-tauranga.JPG

    Bonus: http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/fsc4.jpg

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  76. tempest (30 comments) says:

    I expanded the list of folks on FB that “liked” the post and pasted them in below. Some of them are obviously pseudonyms but quite a few are real names. Wonder how many of them receive money from the state in some form or another? For the ones that actually do work I wonder how their employer or future employers would see them “liking” a poster with obvious nazi themes? If I have time I will sleuth around and do a bio on each. The pseudonyms take a bit more work but there are usually ways to figure who they are, often by the pics they post or are tagged in. Coyle is well known as DPF says. Does anyone know any of the others in the list below?

    Francis Tunnicliff – Chancellor state fuck heads
    István Ping Clover – Knobs at Seht
    Keighty Maught’n – Wellington, New Zealand
    Bob Sutton
    Phoebe Morris
    John G M Costa -James Cook University
    Fred Dagg
    Su Keates
    Kate Watson – Works at Restore Dunedin
    Sheridan oo
    Beans Beans – Huia, New Zealand
    Shaun Collins – School of Hard Knocks, The University of Life
    Richard Feron
    Jane Stammers -NLP MASTER Practitioner/Ericksonian Hypnotherapist/Time Line Therapy/Transforming Communication at Self Employed NLP Practitioner
    Seanus Savant
    Michael Harford
    Keryn Squires – Victoria University of Wellington
    Loren Squires – Works at Victoria University of Wellington
    Arie Bates-Hermans
    Saj Magnetic Bluestorm
    Rowan Saker
    Ian Hicks
    Max Dillon Coyle – Publishing Manager at Western Community News
    Tom Sampson -Booragul High School NSW
    Keri Carruthers
    Samuel Tupou – Summer Intern at Samueltupou.com
    Dean Raybould – Cairns State High School
    Richard Falkner – Wellington, New Zealand
    Gaf Ferner – School of Hard Knocks, The University of Life
    Havid Dornblow – Auckland, New Zealand
    Sean Duffell -Wellington, New Zealand
    Warren Summers – Wellington, New Zealand
    Matthew Whiting
    Louise Payne – A Different Light Theatre Company at A Different Light Theatre Company
    Tiff Stephens – Otago
    Sue Engels – Auckland, New Zealand
    Jasmin Vineleaf – Pukerua Bay
    Riki Agnew -Te Paa
    Roger Grauwmeijer – Tour photographer/videographer, lugger and just general gofer at Punk Rock Road Trips NZ
    Raymond Louis – Auckland, New Zealand
    Chris Moody – Otago Boys’ High School

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  77. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    tempest = creepy stalker

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  78. emmess (1,398 comments) says:

    The National Socialist German Workers Party was about as socialist as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is democratic

    There was something like a 97% top tax rate in Nazi Germany

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  79. Grendel (1,013 comments) says:

    >>
    Fascists are just conservatives who don’t get their own way
    >>

    Fascists are just another branch of collectivist by force, like commies and socialists. the symbol of the fascists was the bundle of sticks the fasces, with the whole united we stand metaphor.

    Facism (and most collectivism) is not about conservatism but authoritarianism.

    a liberal will say, i may do this and i dont care if you do or dont
    a conservative will say, i wont do this, and i would prefer you did not, but will rarely try and stop you
    the authoritarian will say, i may or may not do this (as they are hypocrites), but you are not allowed to and i will use the gun of the state to enforce it.

    it may be that getting more and more conservative about more and more things could lead to becoming more authoritarian though its hardly definite. plenty of people who consider themselves liberal (cough, greens), are extremely authoritarian about how they think others should live.

    free market ideology ie right wing (because the left and right refers to economics and liberal and conservative refers to social) has nothing to do fascists, socialists, communists etc as free market people do not want state ownership of their business and free trade between consenting adults.

    i know this seems obvious but tom and many other socialists seem to forget this.

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  80. Pete George (23,798 comments) says:

    tempest – I think that’s very unwise, especially considering the context of this topic.

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  81. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    well done tempest – a perfect example of how the right, as well as the left are prepared to act like unscrupulous idiots.

    I doubt very much Mr Key would appreciate your actions, whilst he is more than happy to make fun of those that publicly put their names forward by being MP’s and politicians, I doubt he would approve of the names and professions of private individuals being used in such a manner.

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  82. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Facism (and most collectivism) is not about conservatism but authoritarianism.

    No. Fascism has its own peculiar aetiology. It occurs when traditional elites cannot retain control due to a left wing political challenge, so they make a deal with loonies. It has 5 stages.

    Intellectual exploration, where disillusionment with popular democracy manifests itself in discussions of lost national vigour

    Rooting, where a fascist movement, aided by political deadlock and polarization, becomes a player on the national stage

    Arrival to power, where conservatives seeking to control rising leftist opposition invite the movement to share power

    Exercise of power, where the movement and its charismatic leader control the state in balance with state institutions such as the police and traditional elites such as the clergy and business magnates.

    Radicalization or entropy, where the state either becomes increasingly radical, as did Nazi Germany, or slips into traditional authoritarian rule, as did Fascist Italy.

    The US was at stage 3 for a while, but it’s gone off the boil.

    As I said. Fascism is what conservatism becomes when conservatives don’t get their own way. Communism is an ideology. Fascism isn’t really an ideology so much as it is something that happens.

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  83. thedavincimode (6,890 comments) says:

    And a big fat fuck off to the hand-wringing rape culturist and milky.

    This is all public domain. These clowns have all put themselves out there. tempest has merely collated information that is freely available. And jolly good of him to take the trouble as well.

    Was there a bargain basement dispersal of goody two shoes on trademe this week?

    edit: and silly old Nursey.

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  84. Tautaioleua (324 comments) says:

    People who haven’t studied history shouldn’t make NAZI references. John Key is in charge of a centre-right government. The NAZI Party under the Third Reich was very left-wing.

    Allow me to expand on that: the Nationalsozialistische Volkswohlfahrt (NSV), meaning “National Socialist People’s Welfare Programme” was the second largest NAZI organisation in all of Germany from 1939 onward – second only to the labour front.

    Their generous spending on the welfare system made the rest of Europe seem negligent; if not the world. Hitler often referred to social equality in speeches (and naturally, that only extended to Aryans). He even lobbied for equal access to education and welfare when it came to the very real divide between rural and urban Germany of the time.

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  85. thedavincimode (6,890 comments) says:

    I mean, really, what a bunch of deadbeats – what about this one:

    Jane Stammers -NLP MASTER Practitioner/Ericksonian Hypnotherapist/Time Line Therapy/Transforming Communication at Self Employed NLP Practitioner

    :roll:

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  86. Fentex (1,136 comments) says:

    Anyone watching the Fox News channel has the opportunity of witnessing how the Nazi party came to power

    Exactly when is a U.S President going to appoint Roger Ailes Chancellor of the U.S.A on the back of Fox News decreasing share of electoral votes?

    Fox News and the Republicans pandering to anti-intellectual know nothings amounts to a mild, though still dangerous to the U.S Republics health, background propaganda white noise.

    Vastly more dangerous is the abandon with which authority (Congress, the Senate and the President) wields the stick of terror against U.S citizens.

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  87. Yoza (1,926 comments) says:

    Tautaioleua (263 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 5:45 pm

    People who haven’t studied history shouldn’t make NAZI references.

    Utter bollocks. Fascism/Nazism is what we are going to get if actual democracy threatens the power of corporate control. Pinochet, Franco, Suharto, Mubarak, Salazar, Batista were all great friends of the West and led extraordinarily violent far-right regimes which would not look out of place in a line up of the planet’s most fascist fascists.

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  88. tempest (30 comments) says:

    Calm down people. You’d think from some of your responses to my post that your names are on the list.

    All I did was copy a list out of the facebook link at the top of this post and paste it in here. I’m about to jump on yet another 13 hour flight and it’s doubtful to say the least that I will have the time or motivation to pursue this further.

    If someone posts something in the form of a “like” on social media, do they then have a reasonable expectation of absolute privacy? If someone then is stupid enough to “like” an image that myself and a large section of the public will find deeply offensive do they automatically get more privacy?

    Before I offer a job to anyone I spend up to 20-30 minutes looking them up on Google, plus another couple of other background internet checks. This is after they have been screened by the recruiter and HR. I can say positively that if their name comes up linked to something like this, even if it was 20 years ago, they won’t be getting the job. This is pretty standard practice and has been for years. This is also standard in many govt agencies worldwide, like when you are applying for a visa etc. If any of you guys think this is “stalking” or “unwise” you are as big an idiot as those people on the list.

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  89. doggone7 (846 comments) says:

    Judith Collins made the news with a comment referring to an opposition MP as “a sensitive wee sausage.” Many of her supporters laughed, scoffed, and jumped into “You go girl!” mode. Shortly after that, when the spotlight was on her and certain uncomplimentary remarks were directed at her she was unhappy and her supporters were upset.

    There is a daily attack mounted on Cunliffe and his party. Sociopathic bloggers continue an orchestrated regime. Anything is fair game and it seems the magnifying glasses and microscopes are out to turn anything small into something large. Innuendo is a prime strategy.

    Someone or thing called Toothfish who/that I’d never heard of until today has a go at the Prime Minister. The effort is so despicable, so revolting, so disgusting that David Farrar has to reproduce it.

    All of course in the cause of delineating the boundary of what is acceptable and what is not.

    Judith Collins was surprised when she found she did not have prior rights to establishing the playing field. It must be very disturbing for
    supporters of John Key when contrary points of view are put out. The frenzy about Cunliffe on the Whale Oil site and the reaction to this cartoon from Toothfish suggests that under the veneer of the cruise to victory there is some real political concern about. If only the dastardly people of the opposing views played it as it should be played!

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  90. Yoza (1,926 comments) says:

    Fentex (624 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 5:54 pm

    [Yoza]Anyone watching the Fox News channel has the opportunity of witnessing how the Nazi party came to power

    Exactly when is a U.S President going to appoint Roger Ailes Chancellor of the U.S.A on the back of Fox News decreasing share of electoral votes?

    Fox News isn’t subtle propaganda, its like being hit between the eyes repeatedly – with a sledgehammer. Mostly the US doesn’t need to worry about going with martial law to preserve corporate power as both Republicans and Democrats are “…different wings of the same bird of prey”. If any democratic movement arises to threaten that control there would be a quite sudden resurgence of fascism (Freedom Troopers!).

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  91. duggledog (1,624 comments) says:

    Ha ha. It’s all they’ve got left!

    It looks like something Rick from the Young Ones would do.

    If you’re reading this, Toothfish, Rick from the Young Ones was a parody of a tragic loathsome student loser with acne

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  92. Pete George (23,798 comments) says:

    kris @3.45 pm

    Robert says he hosts Toothfish for someone but was not responsible for or aware of the image. He’s looking in to it.

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  93. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ tempest (29 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 6:01 pm

    Your actions are simply that of a bully. Whilst I’m sure the fellow bullies on here will think you are very clever, in reality all you have done is given the left some thing more to throw at National and the quality of their supporting blogs.

    Your attempts are plain and simple – “don’t go supporting the left in any way, because if you do, and we find out your name, we will find some way to use it against you”.

    Yes their names are available for anyone to see, on the face book page they ‘liked’, but what is of concern is the reason, that is your motivation behind choosing to republish them on here, and further, to then spend time researching and establishing more personal details about them – including I suspect where they live?

    And then what will you do, publish their addresses on line as well?

    Do you have ANY idea of just how stupid that is, and all for what reason – because those people have a different opinion to you about something.

    You are a fool, your suggested further actions are the most stupid thing I have read on here – you are prepared to deliberately endanger people to score political points. When they ‘liked’ a page they obviously wouldn’t have expected some unbalanced John Key supporter to then go and seek out their personal details and harass them by revealing those details.

    I seriously hope this comes back to bite you in the arse. You are nothing but a bully – and a creepy one at that.

    @ David Garrett

    You are always asking me why I don’t use my real name on here and the net – well the actions of tempest above are the exact reason – too many creeps.

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  94. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    “Fascists are just conservatives who don’t get their own way.”

    And the award for dumbass comment for today goes to……. Tom Jackson! :)

    “”We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” –Adolf Hitler. Speech of May 1, 1927.

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  95. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstream/28473/1/dp050905.pdf

    Read.
    and learn.
    Tom is right Much of Hitlers war industrys capitalist stars still remain as major forces.
    bmw vw audi being the obvious.
    Along with seimins the manufacturers of Zycon b

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  96. freemark (660 comments) says:

    Good on you for the research & posting it Tempest. The cowardly Socialists need a little sunlight on them..it’s a pretty safe bet that many of those FB likers are purely self interested in increasing their Benefit Payment or fearful of having to perform in their cushy little State Bureaucratic role. I sense the WaterMelon dream slipping – like Judith’s mask.
    Lefty’s Law: the amount you actually “care” (for the unfortunate, the ignorant, the planet, the oppressed etc, etc) is in direct proportion to the self serving scramble to the trough you desperately seek.

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  97. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Siemans are electrical equipment manufacturers griffith. Perhaps you mean these folk.

    “Degesch played a key role in the development (see above) and manufacturing of Zyklon B. Many German companies had stock in Degesch, but all eventually sold their shares to the chemical giant Degussa (now part of Evonik Industries) in the early 1920s.

    Degesch’s role at this point was limited to acquiring patents and intellectual property: it did not produce Zyklon B. The manufacture of Zyklon B was handled by Dessauer Werke für Zucker and Chemische Werke, which acquired the stabilizer from IG Farben, the warning agent from Schering AG and the prussic acid from Dessauer Schlempe and assembled them into the final product. Dessauer Schlempe extracted prussic acid from the waste products of the sugar beet refining process. Apart from Dessauer Werke, Zyklon B was also produced from 1935 by Kaliwerke AG in the Czech town of Kolín[18][19] and in France.”

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  98. Scott1 (591 comments) says:

    As per pidge,

    They Godwined themselves. When someone is carving “stupid” on their forehead do you really need to say anything more?

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  99. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Judith’s boy is a national supporter though so somewhere, deep down, she must have done something right! :)

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  100. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    Good on Tempest.

    If people hold these views, they should be exposed to sunlight. They exposed their views n a public arena, namely the internet, using their real names, so it’s clear they are happy for their views to be publicly known.

    That’s what free speech is. They are free to say it, and people are free to respond. I find this propaganda abhorrent and I would not knowingly employ people who liked it. I would be concerned about their prejudices and poor judgement.

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  101. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    griffith.
    Dont forget Hugo Boss who made such dashing uniforms for the SS.
    Cuts a nice suit tho!

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  102. BlairM (2,340 comments) says:

    Wow, comparing a politician to a Nazi. Nobody has ever thought of something like that before…

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  103. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ freemark (315 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 8:10 pm

    So you would feel happy for someone who disagreed with your opinion and views to find out your employment and address and post those details on the net, would you?

    If that is the case, why do you use a name like ‘freemark’ and not your real name?

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  104. wat dabney (3,840 comments) says:

    Vintage lefty British politician Tony Benn died recently.

    Lest we forget.

    Tony Benn was a fervent admirer of Chairman Mao, the ultimate leader of East Asian communists like the Khmer Rouge. In 1976, Britain’s best-loved pipe smoker wrote this in one of his hundreds of self-obsessed diaries: “In my opinion, [Chairman Mao] will undoubtedly be regarded as one of the greatest – if not the greatest – figures of the 20th century.”

    Check that date again, because it’s important. Benn wrote this in 1976. That’s years after Chairman Mao, Tony Benn’s great hero, procured the deaths of 1.5 million Chinese citizens in the Cultural Revolution. That’s many years after Mao engineered 45 million deaths in the Great Famine. That’s four decades after Chairman Mao envisaged that 50 million Chinese peasants “would have to be destroyed” to facilitate agrarian reform.

    More painfully still, 1976 is a year after those fervent Maoists, the Khmer Rouge, seized power in Phnom Penh (an advent greeted with words of celebration from Mao himself). By the year 1976, Cambodia was 12 months into a communist campaign of death, which would eventually annihilate 20-30 per cent of the entire Cambodian population.

    And by 1976 we knew this: The Guardian, surely Tony Benn’s favourite newspaper, had already published many articles about the new Cambodia, describing “a systematic process of mass elimination”, of “executions used as a tool of social control”. That is to say, in 1976, when Tony Benn happily praised Chairman Mao as the greatest man of the 20th century, he knew Mao’s acolytes were “exterminating class enemies”.

    But that’s alright, because we all make mistakes – at least according to rumpled, brilliant Tony Benn and his adorable mugs of tea. Twenty years later, an even wiser Benn – perhaps reflecting on the Maoist baby-killing – said this to the Chinese ambassador: “I am a great admirer of Mao. He made mistakes, because everybody does, but it seems to me that the development of the countryside and so on was very sensible.”

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100264023/tony-benn-admired-chairman-mao-responsible-for-the-deaths-of-millions-why-is-this-ignored/

    And let’s not forget, Nazism was just another form of leftist compulsory collectivism: albeit less successful ar murdering people than Communism.

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  105. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Peter (1,443 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 8:52 pm

    Another one – perhaps you’d like to put your name, address and employment details on here, so everyone that doesn’t agree with your opinion can come visit you, and harass you too? No?

    It is one thing putting a persons name, but researching them to find out their further details and threatening to publish things like addresses and employment is NOT on.

    How the hell do you manage to live in a community with people that don’t agree with you – or are you one of these thugs who can’t take it, and uses all sorts of bullying means to shut people up?

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  106. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    “At the height of the Nazi terror during the 1940s, it was not atypical for a slave worker to build electrical switches for Siemens in the morning and be snuffed out in a Siemens-made gas chamber in the afternoon.” Even the destruction of four fifths of the companies factories during WWII was not enough to keep Siemens down. Siemens has already been forced to settle a major lawsuit in 1998 brought by Holocaust survivors, but even with that $1.2 billion price tag in 2002 Siemens was in the news again, after it tried to trademark the term “Zyklon” (which means “cyclone” in German) to be used in products such as vacuum cleaners (Hmm…) and Gas Ovens (holy shit!) in Germany.

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  107. lofty (1,317 comments) says:

    @ Peter 8:52.
    I understand what you and tempest are saying, but as an employer with a fair few staff, the last thing we would do is look at their political preferences, likes, or dislikes etc.
    We do the normal background, reference checks etc but it is not our business to pry any further into their personal lives or peccadilloes.
    Our criteria is about, skills, fitness, desire to up skill, ability to fit in, desire to meet their employment obligations etc.
    So long as their personal life does not infringe in our business and their employment it is all good with us.
    We cannot discriminate against a whole lot of things, and we don’t.
    If any of our team step outside the bounds of the norm, there is an ability to shall we say cull them from our organisation (as onerous as it is, it still is).
    NZ is still marginally free Peter.

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  108. Ed Snack (1,940 comments) says:

    Judith, if you don’t want people to know who you are on the net, don’t post your details up there then, prat. You’re very keen to lecture people tonight, your hatred is showing rather. People post public approval of something as asinine and juvenile as this, and they expect plaudits…?

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  109. lofty (1,317 comments) says:

    @Ed Snack 9:28… Plaudits they will not get obviously, what they will get, and have got, rightly so, is derision.
    Let them devise obnoxious material such as this to their hearts content.
    It is of no consequence.

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  110. freemark (660 comments) says:

    “Judith (5,473 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 9:04 pm
    So you would feel happy for someone who disagreed with your opinion and views to find out your employment and address and post those details on the net, would you?
    If that is the case, why do you use a name like ‘freemark’ and not your real name?”

    As you well know Judith, that is not the point here. It is about people (I flatter these Lefties by calling them people not scum) supporting a very nasty & dishonest portrayal of JK – who is arguably best PM NZ has ever seen, and certainly acting in the best interests of NZ & the vast majority of NZers (despite the smears and absolute bullshit to the contrary)
    Many of your nasty cohorts know who I am, you probably do as well I suspect..I own my statements and opinions wherever they are, and don’t pretend to be something that I’m not.
    Very unlike you, with your faux balance and obvious hatred/jealousy of this Govt.

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  111. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Ed Snack

    Nice to see that you too agree with bullying as a way to shut up opponents.

    A person should be free to state an opinion about a public political figure, without having to fear for their personal safety.

    Having a person’s name is one thing, using various in depth means to find out other details, that you have absolutely no need to know, is stalking and intimidation. All you and your friends are trying to do is shut people up who disagree with you, by using fear and intimidation to do it. Shame on you !

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  112. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ freemark (316 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 9:42 pm

    Firstly, I have absolutely no idea who you are, and nor do I give a shit. I’m not intimidated by people by bullies in any manner.

    Secondly, if you pulled your head out of your arse and thought a little, you would find that John Key is not the first political figure to be depicted in such a manner – and others examples exist on both the left and the right.

    Thirdly, clearly you are delusional if you think John Key is the most popular PM ever. Statistics to date do not support your assertion. He didn’t even get 50% of the votes in the last election, so god knows where you get your opinion from.

    Fourthly, NEVER in this country is it acceptable to bully someone for their political opinions. If someone thinks John Key’s practices are similar to the values of the Nazi party, that is for them to believe, and it is NOT for any other member of society to take steps to have them silenced by means of intimidation or anything else.

    To do so is resorting to the very freedoms that our ancestors fought for. It is in direct opposition to freedom of speech and equal rights. It is in direct opposition to everything this country stands for.

    Not everyone thinks of JK like you do. Some people have justified reasons for feeling the way they do. It is NOT your right to enforce your feelings for him on others. John Key stood for politics knowing full well he would be exposed to this kind of thing, which is why he laughs at it. It’s a pity his supporters aren’t as intelligent and aware of the issues of being a public figure, as he is.

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  113. lofty (1,317 comments) says:

    Judith, on this I absolutely agree with you, providing the whatever comment is made, is made, within the laws of the land.
    Human decency and norms, do, and rightly should, allow individuals to hold opposing beliefs, without the fear of some sort of reprisal by those who hold differing beliefs.
    If it is outside our laws, then use the law to attack them.
    Oh and I am a righty, by my own definition.

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  114. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    “He didn’t even get 50% of the votes in the last election, so god knows where you get your opinion from.”

    From the polls about preferred PM. Key has had the highest ratings for the longest period since polling began.

    That aside, I don’t agree with what tempest is doing.

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  115. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (1,035 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 10:04 pm

    Polls are one thing Shawn, but at the end of the day, the only poll that matters is the one held on election day. Experience so far has failed to support the hypothesis.

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  116. Nostalgia-NZ (5,318 comments) says:

    I think this drawing is particularly stupid. I don’t like it and find it offensive, but that is only my opinion. I think reproducing it here or anywhere is stupid at the very least. But what is also disturbing is that it has unleashed from some vitriol in response that is equally offensive. I’d bet a dollar to ten that JK supports neither position because his interests as PM are those of all NZers, not some tit for tat over some stupidity. The man is a statesman, the elected Leader with a democratic test of that coming this next spring and without any need to be defended other than by his manner and record as PM.

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  117. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ lofty (1,292 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 10:02 pm

    That’s okay lofty, so was I for many years and my son still is, and I’m still his favourite mother apparently!! :-)

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  118. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    Fourthly, NEVER in this country is it acceptable to bully someone for their political opinions. If someone thinks John Key’s practices are similar to the values of the Nazi party, that is for them to believe, and it is NOT for any other member of society to take steps to have them silenced by means of intimidation or anything else.

    Oh piss off Judith. A poster of John Key dressed as a Nazi is NOT equally as worthy as Beethoven’s 9th or Michaelangelo’s Sistine chapel or the speeches of Martin Luther King Jr, not even in the most politically correct places I’ve frequented. Sometimes a statement really is so stupid, crass, and offensive, that a strong and indignant response is warranted.

    For reference, here are a group of mothers and their babies, waiting to be executed at Babi Yar near Kiev.

    By ACTUAL Nazis…

    http://www.pigtailsinpaint.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/babi-yar-massacre-11.jpg

    Scary to think that in a country like New Zealand, where everyone gets free primary and secondary education, and we enjoy pretty much unfettered access to the internet, that there can be so many people who think this appalling poster is either a good idea, or just not too much of a big deal…

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  119. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    Lofty,

    Yes. I personally think the poster is sick (Key has Jewish ancestry) but the best response to it is just laugh at the idiocy and move on. No point in making a big deal out of it. That just gives attention to the fool who made it.

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  120. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Nostalgia-NZ (4,638 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 10:08 pm

    I don’t like it either. I am old enough to have seen what the war did to my father and other family members. I find these things creepy.

    But I also find the latest fashion of putting sculls on babies clothing pretty horrible to –
    I accept that the younger generations do not associate these things with the same events that we do. They are merely symbols of the past that always draw a reaction, so they use them.

    That is their right, I hope they never have to experience anything that would allow them to be in fear of such things, that our parents had to.

    BUT, my father fought the Nazi’s to ensure that people had the right to hold their religious and political beliefs without fear of persecution, and if he was alive, despite how disgusting the use of such things would be for him, I know he would be as equally disgusted at people that attempt to use fear and intimidation as a means to quell opposing political beliefs. He didn’t fight and live a shorter life, for that to happen in the country he loved and fought for.

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  121. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    J
    To late for a monthly
    You seem unusually negative today……

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  122. publicwatchdog (3,148 comments) says:

    I prefer these images of NZ Prime Minister John Key on the following banners I have made:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151885282121790&set=t.100000081045781&type=3&theater

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152344824771873&set=t.100000081045781&type=3&theater

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

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  123. lofty (1,317 comments) says:

    @ RRM 10:09.. You are right of course, but the interesting thing is, that the very unfettered access to the internet works both ways.
    I reckon that if you actually analysed the number of NZr’s who think this appalling poster is a good idea, or not too much of a big deal, you would come out with a very small number.
    I respectfully, do not mean to understate the issue, but my personal view is, let these people portray themselves as they do.
    Their message will be received by the populace, but not to their advantage, because of the very access to the internet, and individuals ability to access reason.
    It is not scary at all, it is great that our young people now have the ability to see all parts of the spectrum, and make reasoned judgements.
    The poster is crass, stupid, and obnoxious….it will be, and is seen as just that. It works against the creator of this nonsense.
    Let them devise hundreds more, the great majority of our citizens are not so silly as to be sucked in by it.
    Of course there will always be a minority if those who will rave in agreement, I was probably one of those once.

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  124. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ griffith (541 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 10:22 pm

    I hate bullies. People that use fear to quiet those that don’t share their beliefs are no better that the very thing they say they find revolting. It means they think they have some superior right.

    Superior right? Using fear as a tool? If they want to live in a country where people aren’t allowed a political opinion that differs from theirs, then perhaps they should try North Korea.

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  125. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Sorry J if you are thinking of me in that way

    …..short mans syndrome among others. :lol:

    ideas are what is really important.

    the chaff of personality is.

    bye and bye.

    I find the personalization of politics distaste full.

    hic

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  126. lofty (1,317 comments) says:

    Penny…I never realised how short you are.
    It explains a lot…short persons syndrome and all.
    Speaking of traitors,what is your view on the Labour Party, and the greens political diatribe driving down the value of legal and legitimate shares, and dribbling policy of driving up power prices, causing real poverty amongst our citizenry?
    Not mention anti business, and growth mechanisms?
    I am genuinely interested, as you are the one person I have watched over a few years (and called names too, for which I apologise a bit) who I perceive as genuinely opposed to the machine.

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  127. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    lofty
    :lol:
    thanks dude.

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  128. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    Hey Penny, sold your house yet?

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  129. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    No source
    Griff has no face book presence,

    I can not verify authenticity.

    Googling the id obtained past face book is not ethical.

    Why Godwin?

    A reflection of the extreme left .

    Dog whistle ?

    Set up ?

    Stupid ?

    I Lean towards.

    A a reflection of the extreme left .

    Mana

    Not authenticated ?

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  130. Dirty Rat (383 comments) says:

    Oh good god

    You and Slater have been buttfucking each other over DotCom and ownership of a book , taking Godwins law to soooooo many levels.

    And you both go all cry baby whingy whiny over this ?

    Grow some balls precious

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  131. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    I think it’s funny that the only intelligent posters on here are the smattering of left wingers, the anarchists and Judith.

    There is not one recent right wing commenter on this blog who has demonstrated any familiarity with basic economics, political theory, or logic. Edmund Burke would turn in his grave.

    If left wingers are supposed to be the drooling morons you lot portray them to be, where are the intelligent right wingers? I’ve looked hard all over the NZ blogosphere and all I find is kooks.

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  132. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    Tom,

    Most of the “right wingers” on this blog are probably not that familiar with Burke. Modern “conservatism” is just the inverse of modern leftism. They are both wrong and for largely the same reason.

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  133. Yoza (1,926 comments) says:

    freemark (316 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 9:42 pm

    As you well know Judith, that is not the point here. It is about people (I flatter these Lefties [Jews, Gypsys, Slavs] by calling them people not scum) supporting a very nasty & dishonest portrayal of JK[Hitler] – who is arguably best PM[Chancellor] NZ[Germany] has ever seen, and certainly acting in the best interests of NZ[Germany] & the vast majority of NZers[Germans] (despite the smears and absolute bullshit to the contrary)

    God yeah! I have no idea why you lot keep getting compared to the Nazis. I mean you’re such a balanced, tolerant lot.

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  134. Nookin (3,566 comments) says:

    I am having some difficulty reconciling Judith’s assertion that people have a right to depict Key as a Nazi on the basis of freedom of speech with the abuse she heaps on those who beg to differ from her over Bain’s innocence.

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  135. slightlyrighty (2,097 comments) says:

    Judith. If someone thinks that John Key’s practices are similar to the Nazi Party, then let him say so with reasoned debate. I understand that there are those who do not fully appreciate what the PM does, but to put this sort of thing forward as an argument against him would do their cause no good whatsoever, and in my opinion only serves to highlight that their argument has no weight at all.

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  136. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ slightlyrighty (2,446 comments) says:
    April 3rd, 2014 at 7:34 am

    I think you will find that John Key, whilst like many of us think the image is extremely bad taste, fully expects to see himself portrayed as all sorts of weird and wonderful things. He is astute enough to know that it comes with the job, unfortunately the same cannot be said for many of his supporters.

    I too think the image is in bad taste, but then I also thought the reports of DPF parading as Jimmy Saville were also in bad taste.

    I’ll state my case again.

    Tempest threatened to seek out the personal details, including friends and family connections, employment details and so on, of people who ‘liked’ the image on Facebook, and publish those details. In short, he used fear tactics as a means of intimidation to quieten those who hold opposing views to his.

    The hypocrisy comes when you consider the border context – how is what Tempest did, and those that support him in those threats, different to how the Nazi party acted when they began their campaign ?

    I agree that it is in extremely bad taste to use such images, but Kimble posted these examples above, which are also in extremely bad taste and hurtful for some members of society, but because they were used by National supporters and not against them, it appears that is okay?

    1. http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0712/a634bc2dd4ea7dcedc21.jpeg

    2. http://cdn.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/fsc-auckland.JPG

    3. http://cdn.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/fsc-tauranga.JPG

    Bonus: http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/fsc4.jpg

    The issue here has nothing to do with John Key, he is not complaining and I suspect is clever enough not to make something of a group of young people who like all previous groups of young people, like to shock the oldies to get attention.

    The fact remains however, that a National Party supporter and several others on this thread think it is acceptable to use fear and intimidation against those that do not share the same political beliefs as themselves.

    If we allow such things to happen in this country, stand by and laugh, or worse encourage the use of fear, then we begin that very steep decline into the very thing that our fathers fought for, and that was the right to hold your own religious/political beliefs without fear of persecution.

    Any free person is entitled to think that JK acts like a Nazi, that is their right, it is their opinion, and they should be able to hold that opinion and share it, without being threatened for doing so. Just as you are entitled to hold your opinion.

    Anyone that opposes that right, does not believe people are entitled to their own political opinions, frankly is no better than the Nazi party.

    I fully realise there is a vast difference between killing millions of people for their beliefs, and intimidating those with opposing beliefs, but NEVER forget that Hitler and the Nazis started small – they started in the same manner that Tempest did on here last night.

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  137. deadrightkev (609 comments) says:

    I recall a software enhanced pic of Rodney Hide resplendent in Hitler uniform doing the rounds a year or three back. I don’t recall you making a fuss of that DPF?

    You and Slater really are a true blue tag team for the progressives.

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  138. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    So, Judith, all else being equal, you’d have no issues employing this guy?

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/KKK_night_rally_in_Chicago_c1920_cph.3b12355.jpg

    Not relevant? I say it is. It’s a mark of his character, and not a good one.

    Another one – perhaps you’d like to put your name, address and employment details on here, so everyone that doesn’t agree with your opinion can come visit you, and harass you too? No?

    Not harassing anyone. Just making the point that if you put something on the internet, with your name against it, then it may come back to you. I feel it shows poor judgement to link their real name to supporting something like this. Consider that the public service have a staff education campaign that states it is fine to hold political views, but to be very careful about how and where you express them.

    All else being equal, I’d take the candidate who showed greater discretion.

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  139. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    The fact remains however, that a National Party supporter and several others on this thread think it is acceptable to use fear and intimidation against those that do not share the same political beliefs as themselves.

    Wrong.

    They are welcome to hold different political beliefs. It’s openly supporting such a vile poster and the poor judgement of doing so publicly that would raise alarm bells with me. It signals to me this person lacks good judgement and may well take issues of reputation lightly.

    Any free person is entitled to think that JK acts like a Nazi, that is their right, it is their opinion, and they should be able to hold that opinion and share it, without being threatened for doing so. Just as you are entitled to hold your opinion.

    They are free to speak it. I am free to speak against it. They can hold that opinion, and I can hold the opinion I care not for it.

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  140. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Peter (1,444 comments) says:
    April 3rd, 2014 at 8:40 am

    Tell me, do you think someone allegedly dressing as an infamous pedophile is ‘good judgement’?

    Tempest was doing nothing more than trying to hush the voice of opposition. Your excuse and his to try and associate it with responsible employment is pathetic.

    If you see people who ‘liked’ his post as similar to members of the KKK, then poor ignorant you. You have no way of knowing for what reason they ‘liked’ it, it could have been the art work (it was a pretty decent image of JK’s face), it could have been the message it portrayed about JK’s financial management, or it could have been simply that it was a shock slap back for the criticism against KDC. You do not know, and neither does Tempest. And to ‘like’ a political comment in no way can be construed as expressing a political view that is inappropriate (especially when you don’t know what ‘view’ they were expressing).

    Therefore, to threaten that person, their family and the people they know – is disgusting. There is no excuse, there is no justification no matter how you try to associate one. It is what it is, bullying – no more, no less.

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  141. tom hunter (5,134 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson (2,178 comments) says:
    April 2nd, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    We on the right WANT people to succeed.

    Only so they can then stamp on the little people and order them around.

    Speaking of Fascism ….:

    So what she is really saying is she thinks a one party state system of government is better than a democracy because it is easier to implement climate change policies.

    It is, which is why the transition to an economy capable of dealing with climate change will not be managed by democratic means. Sooner or later governments in the west, no matter who elected them, will simply impose reforms on the populace, and there’s nothing any of the denier nuts can do about it. The only interesting issue is whether this happens sooner or later. Hopefully sooner, since it will be less of a hassle.

    Democracy has already reached its peak anyway, as recent events in new democracies have shown.

    But Tom Jackson really outdid himself the very next day on the same subject:

    Won’t need a world government. Military leaders and corporate bigwigs will have a quiet word, and things will get done – that’s how the world already works in case you hadn’t noticed.

    Get in the way if you like. The worst that will happen is that you’ll be batoned by a cop.

    Military leaders and corporate bigwigs!! Wonderful stuff. Perhaps several decades from now scholars will be discussing AGW as the etiology that gave rise to fascist goons like …. Tom Jackson.

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  142. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    Tell me, do you think someone dressing as pedophile is ‘good judgement’?

    It’s in poor taste, but if the context is a costume party, then the motive is not supporting the idea of paedophiles.

    Tempest has done nothing more than repeat data that is out there in the wild. These people voluntarily put it out into the public domain.

    I’ve given you my reasoning – I don’t care for their level of judgement – so you’re just going to have to accept it. I accept your view that it wouldn’t make a difference to you.

    Each to their own. I am not threatening anyone, so stop making things up.

    PS: I recall Madonna uses a painting she likes to judge people’s characters. If they like the painting, she’s pretty sure they’ll get on. If they don’t, she’s pretty sure they won’t. Similar thing. Someone who likes that image is not someone I’d get along with.

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  143. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    They are free to speak it. I am free to speak against it. They can hold that opinion, and I can hold the opinion I care not for it.

    Yes you are, and that is not what I have issue with. You are entitled to speak out against it, but I do not believe you are entitled to threaten that person/s, to persecute them, installing the fear of having their associations, friendships, relationships and other personal details exposed through publication.

    That is using fear tactics – and there is no justification for it, other than for it being used to quieten the voice of opposition.

    Whether you like what they have to say, or not, you and Tempest and anyone else does NOT have the right to intimidate anyone into keeping quiet. You know perfectly well that many people will now be reluctant to ‘like’ something they agree with, because they now fear that they will be exposing friends and family to unfair attention (persecution).

    That is bullying, and that opposes everything that freedom of speech stands for. This is New Zealand FFS, these are kiwis in 2014.

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  144. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    “Won’t need a world government. Military leaders and corporate bigwigs will have a quiet word, and things will get done – that’s how the world already works in case you hadn’t noticed. Get in the way if you like. The worst that will happen is that you’ll be batoned by a cop.”

    If Tom Jackson thinks that will ever happen is a fool. If he actually wants it to happen is a dangerous nutjob.

    Where I grew up at least, that kinda talk would have the locals pointing their guns at you.

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  145. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Peter (1,446 comments) says:
    April 3rd, 2014 at 9:01 am

    Go back and read Tempest’s post. He did not just put their names out there he also said he will be searching for other associations and details and will be going further.

    As I said, you and he do not know the reasons for why they liked that post, you just presume you know. I am not defending them, or their actions, it is what Tempest has done and is threatening to do that is the issue, along with the fact that is was only done with the intention of stopping others from publicly supporting an opposing opinion to his.

    You can try and justify it anyway you like Peter, but that is at the root of it – and that stinks.

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  146. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    Judith has a fair point. Trust me, as a Christian I can affirm that witch hunts never do your reputation any favors.

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  147. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    I do not believe you are entitled to threaten that person/s, to persecute them, installing the fear of having their associations, friendships, relationships and other personal details exposed through publication.

    I’m not.

    My posts should be taken generally. The lesson is that information in the public domain is indelible and you never quite know how others will judge it, rightly or wrongly. I have no idea who these people are, nor do I know if they are seeking a job from me or anyone else, however be aware that employers do Google search potential employees to gain a measure of their character. That genie is not going back in the bottle.

    You know perfectly well that many people will now be reluctant to ‘like’ something they agree with, because they now fear that they will be exposing friends and family to unfair attention (persecution).

    Consider the persecution of the Jews at the hands of Nazis. Each to their own, but I see the level of distaste on display is not minor, and lacking in sound judgement. That is my opinion.

    Tell me why the public service have a video about staff being very careful about expressing political views in public forums? Are they being “bullying”? There are ramifications if they break those rules.

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  148. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    Trust me, as a Christian

    I did laugh.

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  149. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Peter (1,447 comments) says:
    April 3rd, 2014 at 9:16 am

    I’ve worked in the Public Service, and are fully aware of their policy, and believe me, ‘liking’ a post, even the post in question, does not fit within that policy.

    The purpose of the policy is to ensure that ‘employees’ of the government do not criticise their employer, that is reveal issues etc that they are privvy to as government employees in the public arena that may cause the government embarrassment.

    It is ensuring that the information that is pertinent to their unique position is protected.

    If you for one minute think that a public servant would face any sort of disciplinary action for ‘liking’ a post depicting the Prime Minister has having Nazi views in financial matters, then sunshine, you are delusional. There are strict rules about employers being able to restrict the right of employees to voice their political opinions as well.

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  150. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    Peter
    Just to comment on public servants expressing political views. The State Services Commission does provide guidance on this, and has refreshed that guidance for this election year. It emphasises that public servants have the same political rights as other citizens, but need to keep their jobs out of their politics and their politics out of their jobs. Political comment is fine, so long as a public servant does not reveal privileged information, criticise policy with which they have been involved, or confus their agency’s view with their own.

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  151. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    Go back and read Tempest’s post. He did not just put their names out there he also said he will be searching for other associations and details and will be going further.

    That’s the lesson, isn’t it? You never quite know how people will take it, so be careful about the views you express in the public domain. You’ve lost control of it beyond that point and no amount of lecturing me changes that fact.

    Perhaps if we depersonalise this. I am not talking about those people specifically, and retract any inference about those people Tempest listed. I wish to make a more general point about reputation management. The public service are certainly sensitive to it, as are many employers. Do you accept this point?

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  152. Pete George (23,798 comments) says:

    I agree with Judith. Trying to talk up persecution of people based on one click of a ‘Like’, to the extent of threatening their jobs, is a very bad look. It’s happened here by targeting individuals before but to publish a list and promote attacks on them and their jobs is at best misguided but could be or could get much worse. Some of the comments show that nasty intent is hovering here.

    Making a point about a stupid poster is fair enough. Retaliating on a wider scale, especially if action is actually taken, is dirty and reflects badly on those who might take part – and on Kiwiblog. It’s DPF who would cop the most flak if anything stupid came out of this – and those who use his blog for attacks know they are hiding anonymously behind his reputation. Gutless.

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  153. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    Yes Peter, reputation management is important. Say we are able to track down one of the persons who ‘liked’ the picture and googling informs us he or she is a public servant, that is not necessarily going to be a concern for his or her employer. As I noted above, public servants retain freedom of speech and full political rights, but need to exercise caution in some circumstances.

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  154. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    I accept your points, although perhaps I’m not making myself clear.

    Employers can and do search the public domain. They make judgements. You may not like it, but that practice is commonplace.
    http://gcn.com/articles/2012/01/11/facebook-timeline-may-expose-friends-of-federal-executives-and-workers.aspx?admgarea=TC_EMERGINGTECH

    Fair? Maybe not.

    There should be no retaliation against those people listed. The point is you never know who might take issue with it, and that person may be an employer.

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  155. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    Say we are able to track down one of the persons who ‘liked’ the picture and googling informs us he or she is a public servant, that is not necessarily going to be a concern for his or her employer.

    Oh, I agree. It would get no-one fired. At least, I hope not.

    However, social history may count against people with their future employers. Fair? Maybe not, but it happens. I think this issue is particularly sensitive, as Key is of Jewish extraction and anything to do with Nazi Germany is treading on very thin ice.

    People should not be flippant about it, and I question the judgement of people who are, and seemingly proud of it. That is my opinion.

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  156. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    Fair enough. I’m not sure I’d want my employer to be aware of all the opinions I express on Kiwiblog, so I appreciate the anonymity. Any sort of consequence for someone liking this picture would be over the top, in my opinion, but maybe it will be a bit of a lesson for some about what one should do online and how to protect oneself.

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  157. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    Right, mikenmild. I’m not sure I’d post here at all if it wasn’t for the anonymity. You never quite know who is watching, and how they’ll take it, and how it may count against you in future.

    I do question the judgement of some people who would publicly support such a contentious theme. It may suggest an uncaring – or unthinking – flippancy evident in their character. John Key is like a Nazi? Really?

    That’s just wrong.

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  158. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Peter (1,450 comments) says:
    April 3rd, 2014 at 9:45 am

    Oh I am fully aware of the issues involved with the internet, and employers and other less savory characters using it to seek information about people.

    I have warned my children about their ‘choice’ use of language on face book for that very reason.

    Having worked with serious violent offenders for many years, I am really aware of how people, the very last people you want to know things about you, are able to seek information on the internet. Which is why I was particularly annoyed that Tempest in his games, thinks it would be okay to use his resources to publish such things – because although he might think he is only shutting up his opposition, he could also be endangering the life of another person.

    However, even despite all that, I think you are putting far too much weight on the issue.
    People can, and have successfully argued that some of JK’s policies are ‘dictatorial’. If he did not have the jewish connection, would the image have been as insulting?

    You are also underestimating the fact that these are probably young people, two generations removed from the issues of the second world war. They know about it, but its not as ‘in their face’ as it is for older generations. Those images simply do not bring the same emotions and disgust that they do for me and other older people.

    As employers, we have people working for us who have a variety of beliefs including things that I don’t agree with. One of them races greyhounds. Something I believe is cruel, and in bad taste, and therefore he has poor judgement in the area of concern for animals, something I feel strongly about. But he is a dedicated employee, does his job well, and pushes himself to great limits for us – he is loyal and does everything we ask of him.

    To me you are saying you wish to only surround yourself with like-minded people. The only people that are worthy of employment are those who share a common opinion of the things you find distasteful and in bad judgement.

    Getting a tattoo on ones face is bad judgement to me, but there are thousands of tattooed adorned men and women who have made capable and efficient employees.

    I think you are overplaying the excuse and I have to say, your attitude that seems to me to be that you would like the community to exist only of people that think and act like you do – and that any one else that believes differently and acts on it, is acting in bad judgement – that is your opinion to hold, but excuse me for finding it quite a frightening one.

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  159. Scott Hamilton (343 comments) says:

    I agree, as a dyed in the wool lefty, that this poster is idiotic and offensive. The constant misuse of imagery related to Hitler and the Nazis by fools on both the left and the right is trivialising the history of the ’30s and ’40s. Up here in Auckland brilliant young Tongan artist named Benjamin Work is finding much more intelligent, much more historically literate, yet still often troubling, uses for some of the imagery the Nazis gave to the world:
    http://pimpiknows.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/palatavake-flag-by-benjamin-work.jpg?w=860
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/red-in-kava-bowl.html

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  160. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    The other thing to keep in mind is that this kind of drivel, if given wide publicity, is more likley to actually help JK. Most people will find it offensive, and as most Kiwis like JK, this is more likely to turn them off the Left, especially the hard Left of the Greens.

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  161. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Peter (1,452 comments) says:
    April 3rd, 2014 at 9:34 am

    Just to finish here because I think I’ve said enough on this topic, and made my thoughts very clear.

    I do agree with you about the internet, and I think people are only just starting to work out the dangers and implications of using it. How far we go to protect the innocent is uncertain at this stage, but either way, it will be an area of great personal responsibility and as parents it is yet another danger, with consequences that we need to teach our children about.

    Despite being somewhat of a ‘lone wolf’ on this blog, in that I don’t particularly fit within any of the various groups, I like it, because the vast majority on here are intelligent people, and many have great senses of humour, which I respect. I enjoy, despite the personal attacks, the right to express my opinion, and although I am vastly aware that it differs strongly from that of our host, DPF continues to afford me that basic human right of freedom of speech.

    That is a right we all have, it is a right my grandfather quite literally gave his right arm for, and my father fought and received injuries that plagued him his whole life for. Their sacrifice is not lost on me – and not undervalued. My father fought the Nazi’s because he believed in the right for people to be able to express their political and religious opinions without fear of persecution – they also shot him for his trouble. He survived to instill in me those same values, which is why I find this particular situation so insidious – in displaying a distaste for anything Nazi, a core value of Nazism was employed in an attempt to silence the voice of opposition. That’s whacky, and its bloody scary.

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  162. ChardonnayGuy (1,232 comments) says:

    Well, I’m a centre-leftist myself but I find that image grossly offensive and anti-Semitic, especially considering the Prime Minister is of Jewish descent. Much as I also find people who equate the oppression of Palestinians with the Nazi Holocaust and equate Israel with Nazi Germany.

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  163. MaxCoyle (6 comments) says:

    Thanks for showcasing some great art, goes to show even a disgusting little wretch live yourself David can have some uses (over and above your good work on net/e-issues).

    Of course there are multiple factual inaccuracies with your statement about me, I was never a Green candidate and I left the party so I could be the media advisor to the Pirate Party under its former President. Of course the facts escape you and you never rectify anything as you could care less about the truth.

    So anyway fantastic art work and Key really is a corporate fascist treasonous war criminal (I’m just angling for another post I know). And every time the Whale or the Penguin mentions me I know I’m winning and it always amuses me you Stasi’ists keep tabs. Keep up the sh*t work you right wing imbeciles.

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  164. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    What a fruitcake.

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  165. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    ” Key really is a corporate fascist treasonous war criminal”

    What a mindless, hateful little dickhead you are. Sad and pathetic.

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  166. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    “war criminal”

    What war was that exactly?

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  167. Pete George (23,798 comments) says:

    @MaxCoyle: “I was never a Green candidate…”

    Is this news report incorrect?

    Green Party candidate Max Coyle has stood down as Hamilton West candidate after admitting misleading the Waikato Times.

    Hamilton Green Party spokesman Mark Servian said Mr Coyle had agreed to step down “in the light of things that have occurred”.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/5677665/Max-Coyle-stands-down

    What about this blog post and speech, are they incorrect?

    Speech by Hamilton West Green candidate to Campaign for Better Transport in Hamilton
    Posted on 22 August, 2011 by Max Coyle

    What follows is my speech as the Green party of Aotearoa New Zealand candidate for Hamilton West, delivered at the first public ‘Meet the Candidates’ meeting held in Hamilton NZ by the Campaign for Better Transport.

    “Kia Ora, good evening Hamilton.

    My name is Max Coyle and I am standing for the Green Party in Hamilton West.

    http://greenvoices.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/speech-by-hamilton-west-green-candidate-to-campaign-for-better-transport-in-hamilton/

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  168. tom hunter (5,134 comments) says:

    No, no.

    Thank you Max Coyle. Please broadcast this artwork as far and wide as you possibly can through all forms of the NZ media.

    You know you want to.

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  169. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    So Max Coyle is a liar? Well color me surprised!

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  170. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    Shawn
    Some on the left hold the NZ government complicit in war crimes in Afghanistan.

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  171. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    “Some on the left hold the NZ government complicit in war crimes in Afghanistan.”

    Oh. Wasn’t it Helen Clark who first got us into Afghanistan? And Key who got us out?

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  172. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    @Max Coyle: Thank you for confirming your application to the Moron’s Hall of Fame.

    Says it all – you left the Gweens to go to the ‘Pirate’ Party……

    Bwahahahaaaaaaa…. Goodonya – if you strive to be mediocre, you’ll always succeed.

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  173. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    “war criminal”

    What war was that exactly?

    The guys in the wrong uniforms when it ends. They are the criminals. The other guys write the history books.

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  174. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    Pirate Party?????

    Oh cripes, I just have to look that up! :)

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  175. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    Shawn
    So far as I know, we still have some military presence in Afghanistan. Max Coyle probably thinks Helen Clark is a war criminal as well. IIRC the old Alliance broke up over this.

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  176. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Hope maximum tightly coiled posts more often. :lol:

    If DPF sees that.

    banned till 2034?

    Might give the boy a chance to grow up.

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  177. doggone7 (846 comments) says:

    Peter: John Key is like a Nazi? Really? That’s just wrong.

    Wrong? Surely it is in the style of the famous 2006 election hoardings depicting the split red side/blue side, Clark/Brash with a few brief words. Distortion and lies played on people’s ignorance and emotion.

    Being familiar with the history of socialism, Hitler and Germany enables the knowledgable on here to put a context on to the references in the cartoon subject of the discussion. Their considered opinion gives them a chance of introducing a rational perspective. Clearly though some have had that head high tackled out of them by their political leanings. Emotion got in the way.

    The average punter in the street, (way less erudite than correspondents on here!), don’t know history, don’t need to know the history and are prime targets for the no nuances, no subtlety approach. They see WW2 German soldier, $ like an SS logo, the skull = bad, evil bastard, the smiling face of John Key = bad, evil bastard.

    Had the same graphic emerged some years ago with Helen Clark’s face on it would David Farrar have used the word “disgusting” ? The same graphic with Helen Clark depicted on it would have endured an extended spell as a banner on the Whale Oil blog.

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  178. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    Well, it’s already been pointed out a couple of times that DPF fronted a campaign that compared the actions of the Clark government to those of other dictators.

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  179. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    Reality Check:

    Anyone who uses Facebook / TradeMe / LinkedIn / Old Friends / writes a published paper / makes a submission to a Government committee / has been in the media / has a website containing their contact details / has a phone / has an IP address / has a conviction / whatever, knows full well their details are in the PUBLIC domain. And that also applies to anyone who decides to ‘like’ something – they know full well that, by doing so it will also reveal their Facebook profile…

    So the answer is simple: If there is something you wouldn’t want in the public domain (or is likely to embarrass you), then don’t do it! But if you’re OK with it, then go ahead. Because actions have consequences. All actions…

    PS: I also clicked on the ‘likes’ to see who was there – I doubted such a poster would appeal to anyone but rabid leftards and complete morons. And, based on what I saw, I was right. :D

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  180. Nostalgia-NZ (5,318 comments) says:

    That was an unfortunate use of the word ‘other’ milknmild.

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  181. thedavincimode (6,890 comments) says:

    And every time the Whale or the Penguin mentions me I know I’m winning

    Wow. Maybe Ugly is on to something. Maybe there is a parallel universe.

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  182. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    Yes NNZ! I had considered rephrasing it, but now realise that many on Kiwiblog would have no hesitation in regarding Clark as a dictator.

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  183. MaxCoyle (6 comments) says:

    Pete George, yes the news report is incorrect. I laid complaints with the Waikato Times for their coverage but they’re as bad as Farrar with they’re reporting at times. I was never a Green Party candidate, as I was never registered with the Electorl Commission as a candidate. Not sure you lot understand how electoral law works, probably not.

    Also I never misled the Waikato Times, I say this on every retarded thread that this incompetent fool posts but noone ever takes any notice, you guys are too blinkered by your hate.

    Thanks for posting the links to my posts, you guys might take some sense away from them

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  184. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    Judith,

    I think you are overplaying the excuse and I have to say, your attitude that seems to me to be that you would like the community to exist only of people that think and act like you do

    No, that is not what I think. I will, and have, employed people with significantly different views than my own. However, equating Key with a Nazi is patently false. It shows incredibly poor judgement of the man’s character, and, to me, suggests a spiteful, ignorant, attention seeking, nature of those who find it clever.

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  185. Pete George (23,798 comments) says:

    Max, you didn’t refer to this:

    Speech by Hamilton West Green candidate to Campaign for Better Transport in Hamilton
    Posted on 22 August, 2011 by Max Coyle

    What follows is my speech as the Green party of Aotearoa New Zealand candidate for Hamilton West, delivered at the first public ‘Meet the Candidates’ meeting held in Hamilton NZ by the Campaign for Better Transport.

    “Kia Ora, good evening Hamilton.

    My name is Max Coyle and I am standing for the Green Party in Hamilton West.

    http://greenvoices.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/speech-by-hamilton-west-green-candidate-to-campaign-for-better-transport-in-hamilton/

    That you were (presumably) appointed as a candidate and were campaigning as a candidate will look to most people like you were a candidate. That you pulled out before being registered with the Electoral Commission seems like a minor technicality.

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  186. ShawnLH (6,661 comments) says:

    Coyle is a liar. And probably in need of psychiatric care.

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  187. Scott Hamilton (343 comments) says:

    ‘Thanks for showcasing some great art’

    It’s not art, let alone great art. Because it allows for a range of interpretation, art creates a space where its creator and its audience can meet and think; propaganda, by contrast, foists one thought on its audience. There’s no trace of intelligence and subtlety in the image posted at the top of this thread. Try getting even a minor gallery in a small town to exhibit it, and see how far you get.

    There’s a place for good propaganda, but you haven’t even created that, because good propaganda communicates something factual. You’re an embarrassment to the left.

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  188. Scott Hamilton (343 comments) says:

    Here, for the sake of comparison, is some great left-wing propaganda, from the Auckland Museum’s collection of Spanish Civil War postcards:
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2008/03/postcards-from-front.html
    Cogent, hard-hitting – and factual.

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  189. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    So, Judith, we both agree that young Max has a right to say what he says. Do you think a future employer would look favourably or less favourably on his comments? Such comments may have a consequence further down the line. Perhaps they play well in certain far left circles, but I can assure you they don’t in the circles in which I reside.

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  190. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Peter (1,454 comments) says:
    April 3rd, 2014 at 11:57 am

    I just knew I shouldn’t have clicked back into this thread.

    You seem to have totally missed my point. Whether an employer goes looking for such information, and uses it as a sole means of definition for a particular person, regarding whether to employ them or not is up to them.

    You are delusional if you think that Tempest’s threats were anything other than an act of intimidation to try and quell opposing opinions.

    Do you seriously expect me, and other people to believe that he was intending to expose the personal addresses/employment, friends, family and associates of those who ‘liked’ a facebook page, out of some sense of loyalty to prospective employers?

    As to whether an employer would look favorably, that entirely depends on the context of the employment. If it was in the artistic and innovative field, it may very well be in his favour. If it was working as JK’s press secretary, somehow I don’t think he’d get the job, however, Hone might enjoy his clear quick wit, and seemingly staunch adherence to fight for what he believes in, not being afraid to make waves and cause insult in the process.

    I do understand what you are trying to say, these things can come back and bite one on the butt very strongly later in life. But do not forget, our last Prime Minister, who was elected three times, was one hell of a rebel and upset a lot of people during her early years (and arguably in her later years as well) and look what she has achieved in life.

    I think young people, and people in general do need to be careful what they say and where in this day and age. But I think it also depends on whether you want to be Tigger or an Eeyore, and whether you are prepared to stand up and fight for the things you believe in, or whether you want to be the richest man in the grave yard, with no flowers on your grave.

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  191. Peter (1,694 comments) says:

    I can’t speak for Tempest. What I’m saying is *they* chose to put that information in the public domain, and he repeated it. *Anyone* could repeat it and investigate further, if they so choose, using Google and other discovery tools.

    Does it show good judgement to attach your name to such a contentious piece by praising it? In my opinion, it does not. Will a future employer see it as an example of poor judgement and may use that information in her decision? Maybe.

    In a perfect world, you might be able to completely separate them. In this world, less so. That’s just the way it is.

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  192. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    Yes, treasure the anonymity of Kiwiblog. Although DPF makes it clear in his privacy policy that he might blow your cover if you piss him off sufficiently.

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  193. MaxCoyle (6 comments) says:

    I’ll leave you rabid monkeys to your poo throwing.

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  194. thedavincimode (6,890 comments) says:

    Max

    You’re such a bitch! :lol:

    Still got the pipe?

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  195. Manolo (14,169 comments) says:

    When did one Max Coyle escape from the asylum?

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