Neo-nazis gain support in Hungary

April 8th, 2014 at 12:58 pm by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

Sweeping gains by ’s neo-Nazi Jobbik party provoked concern across Europe yesterday after the anti-Semitic organisation won one in five votes in a general election which returned the maverick right-wing Prime Minister, Viktor Orban, to power.

Results showed that far-right Jobbik, which wants detention camps for Roma deviants and has argued that Jews are a national security risk, had upped its share of support by five per cent and had secured 20.86 per cent of the vote in Sunday’s election.

This is very disturbing.  Jobbik is a vile racist party that fosters hatred. While it is only Hungary, the rise of antisemitism again in European politics is disturbing.

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54 Responses to “Neo-nazis gain support in Hungary”

  1. ShawnLH (4,600 comments) says:

    Reid will be happy.

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  2. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,887 comments) says:

    KrimKlotKom would do well in Hungry.

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  3. Ryan Sproull (7,101 comments) says:

    Failing economies do seem to encourage the far-right racist authoritarians, don’t they?

    One in five voting for fascism. So disturbing.

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  4. lolitasbrother (664 comments) says:

    Cool, Farrar lets tell them how it is in Hungary

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  5. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    What’s the odds that the real reason for the Neo Nazi’s support lies in increased Islamic immigration rather than a desire to persecute the Jews?

    The established political parties throughout Europe only stand for more of the same suicidal policies…..any party that organises itself under Nationalistic lines will attract support.

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  6. dubya (229 comments) says:

    Anti-foreign investment, haters of Israel… sounds a bit like one R. Norman.

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  7. dime (9,849 comments) says:

    “Jobbik rejects globalised capitalism, and the influence of foreign investors in Hungary” – not very right wing

    “Hungarians became slaves because the European Union had only wanted Hungary to enter the EU because of its cheap workforce” – they kinda have a point.

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  8. emmess (1,427 comments) says:

    So will Putin invade Hungary then (or the entire Islamic world too for that matter)?

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  9. Andrei (2,568 comments) says:

    Its a funny old world – the transatlantic elites wring their hands over fascism within the EU but cheer it on when it topples a democratically elected Government in a non EU Nation and instantly support the Government that seizes power with fascist elements in its cabinet and inner circle.

    The H word seems appropriate here

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  10. Kleva Kiwi (288 comments) says:

    It amuses me how people fall for fascism being “far right” when in fact it is far closer to “far left” ideology.

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  11. iMP (2,364 comments) says:

    They’ll be lots more of this. Nazism is not unique or that unusual. Ask any Jew of the last two millennia. It’s why I support Israel.

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  12. dime (9,849 comments) says:

    iMP – yep.

    The left have real big issues with Jewish peeps. Its weird.

    Actually, whats weirder is that jews in the US vote democrat. wtf?

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  13. Ed Snack (1,848 comments) says:

    Ryan, or far left classist authoritarians; or sometimes even just plan authoritarians of a sort of “populist” bent. It does seem that Europe is particularly prone to anti-semitism, it is probably a historical hangover.

    I have to say that I don’t know a lot about Jobbik but they certainly sound fairly repellent. It is also interesting that there are two sort of widely differing strands that are labelled “right wing”. One is the so called neocon, globalization & capitalism (red in tooth & claw by repute); the other is the Jobbik style which is essentially anti-globalization and mostly anti-capitalist (but pro local crony capitalism) as well as ultra-nationalist. Very, very, different though both labelled “right-wing” and reputedly tyrannical and “bad”.

    I guess there’s a strong cultural element, the Hungarians seem quite a bit different to some of their neighbours, the Czechs especially. Both though rebelled against communism, but maybe the Hungarians had more beaten out of them afterwards.

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  14. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yes Andrei, we’ll just wait and see the election result there shall we?

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  15. cha (3,943 comments) says:

    Did Putin return the favour and provide election observers.

    http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141067/mitchell-a-orenstein/putins-western-allies

    previously:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/02/general_debate_13_february_2014.html#comment-1275343

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  16. stephieboy (2,788 comments) says:

    cha this is in the interesting part of the foreign affairs article,

    “.. Hungary, for example, Putin has taken the Jobbik party under his wing. The third-largest party in the country, Jobbik has supporters who dress in Nazi-type uniforms, spout anti-Semitic rhetoric, and express concern about Israeli “colonization” of Hungary. The party has capitalized on rising support for nationalist economic policies, which are seen as an antidote for unpopular austerity policies and for Hungary’s economic liberalization in recent years. Russia is bent on tapping into that sentiment..”

    Putin fans like Andre will be pleased.!

    Dime ,you’ll be relived to learn that a growing portion of Jews do vote Republican.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Jewish_Coalition

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  17. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Looks like Putin only oppose fascists when they’re not his fascists.

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  18. stephieboy (2,788 comments) says:

    milkenmild, its called “Putin double think.”

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  19. davidp (3,580 comments) says:

    Would these Jobbik guys like to buy a signed copy of Mein Kampf and an SS helmet? Because an owner who owes a lot of money might like to sell them for a quick buck.

    And speaking of Dotcom… his Nazi memorabilia (which he only owns for its investment value, certainly not because he is a fascist fetishist) is stored in a European country. Would that country happen to be Germany by any chance, because that would be illegal. It is also illegal to tell a NZ court that you have made a full declaration of your assets, and fail to declare your Nazi memorabilia. Maybe Internet Party legal mastermind Graeme Edgeler could look in to these issues?

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  20. Harriet (4,848 comments) says:

    “…..It does seem that Europe is particularly prone to anti-semitism, it is probably a historical hangover….”

    Europe started de-nationalising itself after WW2 and that is the diet that the european generations have been bought up on.

    Modern Israel was created at the same time, but due to the fact that they have always had to collectively defend themselves since day one, they are now viewed by young Europeans as nationalists. These ignorant young people think that Israel hates the Palestinians. Hence the anti-semitism by young Europeans towards Israel.

    But then the Jews are easier to beat up on than the true and real discontent within Europe – mass Muslim immigration. Hence the rise in neo-Nazis.

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  21. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Harriet, can you explain how the 5,000 Muslims in Hungary are causing all this discontent?

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  22. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @nasska – “What’s the odds that the real reason for the Neo Nazi’s support lies in increased Islamic immigration rather than a desire to persecute the Jews?”

    Fair comment, Nasska.

    There are the *good* anti-immigration parties in Europe (like Wilders’ PVV in the Netherlands and the Swedish Democrats in Sweden). Then there are the evil parties like Jobbik in Hungary and Golden Dawn in Greece.

    Make no mistake – Islam *is* a very big threat in the UK and Europe. Marseilles in France is almost *40%* Muslim now. Forty percent!
    Brussels is almost 25% Muslim.

    The world must *not* make the mistake of lumping good parties like PVV in with the evil parties. That would hand Europe to the Muslims on a platter.

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  23. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    If that was correct then the strong fascist showing in Hungary would logically be connected to high rates of Muslim immigration there. But it’s not.

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  24. Fentex (936 comments) says:

    Left vs. Right is insufficient to describe political alignments. The multiple-axis concepts are a better way to model political leanings.

    I recently found this Inglehart Values Map, which differs slightly than the often mentioned Personal vs. Economic Freedom axis.

    But I don’t know that either of these is the proper way to think about problems like Hungary’s, or the rise of Fascism in the thirties. Circumstances matter and the reason a person votes for a candidate is not necessarily related to where either is placed on these sorts of compasses.

    Take Egypt of a couple of years ago, there people voted for Morsi, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, because they were as much voting against others and for a group they perceived (partly, I imagine because of professed piety) as honest.

    Yet when Morsi apparently took that one election as authority to impose an Islamic regime the people who elected him recoiled and now find themselves having to choose between Scylla (a tyrant) and Charybdis (theocratic oppression) neither choice being where the electors likely sit on any political compass.

    Because electors don’t get to vote for the perfect candidate, they only get to vote for who stands, and if at the moment their circumstances and particular concerns are best voiced by Nationalist leaning voices they may (some might think foolishly) pick that voice to be heard, yet continue not to be personally of the same mien. Unfortunately how deep electors prejudices lie may only become certain when regrettable action is asked of them.

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  25. Ryan Sproull (7,101 comments) says:

    Ryan, or far left classist authoritarians; or sometimes even just plan authoritarians of a sort of “populist” bent. It does seem that Europe is particularly prone to anti-semitism, it is probably a historical hangover.

    Yes, an identified enemy and someone who assures them that everything’s going to be okay if they take over.

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  26. hj (6,915 comments) says:

    Ahead of European elections next month that are also expected to see strong results for anti-immigration, anti-EU parties, Jobbik increased its support base across many parts of Hungary to come third with 20.5 percent of the national vote.

    European Jewish Congress president Moshe Kantor said the “neo-Nazi” Jobbik’s performance was a “dark day” for Hungary that gives Europe’s far-right a “strong tailwind” ahead of May’s vote.

    “It is the duty of both European leaders and voters to ensure that a strong message is delivered by supporters of democracy throughout Europe to show these racists and xenophobes that hate has no place on our continent,” he said.

    Jobbik’s success was due in part to it seeking to shed its “nasty” anti-Roma and anti-Semitic rhetoric, focusing instead on law and order as well as fighting corruption and “political correctness,” experts said.

    Read more: Hungary’s ‘neo-Nazi’ Jobbik gains with image shift | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/neo-nazi-jobbik-party-gains-ground-with-image-shift/#ixzz2yGhSXseY
    …..
    People are realising that immigration benefits (mainly) business interests (Harcourt’s Shanghai).

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  27. Fentex (936 comments) says:

    These ignorant young people think that Israel hates the Palestinians.

    The Israeli in the street generally hasn’t expressed such, but those elected to govern them certainly demonstrate hatred by action and deed – which ought tempt anyone believing in the efficacy of representative elections to question Israelis true feelings.

    These days the younger Israeli in the street appears less amiable towards Palestinians in polls and questioners than their elders were in the past.

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  28. Ryan Sproull (7,101 comments) says:

    Harriet, can you explain how the 5,000 Muslims in Hungary are causing all this discontent?

    They’re controlling the banks and the media, Mike!

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  29. hj (6,915 comments) says:

    I wonder if you could make a case for banning people from immigrating on religious grounds where those religions express creed hostile to the members of a host country. Unless they renownce those beliefs?

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  30. ShawnLH (4,600 comments) says:

    The rise of Jobbik specifically has little or nothing to do with Muslims, and has more to do with much older ethnic conflicts and national issues. The party is also very anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian. Jobbik is more obsessed with gypsies and Jews, and a Russian style attitude that all ethnic Hungarians (Magyars) should be united in one country.

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  31. Bob R (1,363 comments) says:

    ***“It is the duty of both European leaders and voters to ensure that a strong message is delivered by supporters of democracy throughout Europe to show these racists and xenophobes that hate has no place on our continent,” he said.***

    HEH @ Moshe Kantor,

    If he has a problem with xenophobes, what is his take on Israel? By definition, their policies are racist & xenophobic and good on them. How else are they supposed to maintain the jewish chacter of the country?

    But when a European country does the same suddenly that is “hateful” and unacceptable?

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/netanyahu-illegal-african-immigrants-a-threat-to-israel-s-jewish-character-1.302653

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  32. wat dabney (3,724 comments) says:

    Failing economies do seem to encourage the far-right racist authoritarians, don’t they?

    As others have already pointed out, Fascism is a leftist (collectivist) ideology just like Socialism, National Socialism and Communism.

    The left has a horrific history of racial persecution and genocide; from Nazism through Communism the numbers are in the many tens of millions (and that’s just counting the dead; the numbers who suffered pitiless torment but managed to survive is in the many hundreds of millions.)

    And for less extreme examples, the trade union movement has always had a strong racist component; using the power of their cartels to keep ethnic minorities down.

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  33. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    The idea that facism is a left wing ideology is pretty fringe.

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  34. stephieboy (2,788 comments) says:

    “And for less extreme examples, the trade union movement has always had a strong racist component; using the power of their cartels to keep ethnic minorities down.”

    An extraordinary claim that needs substantiating.

    The first faction eliminated in his party was the left wing one, The Rohem Purges known also as the Night of the Long knives .Immediately after the Purge,

    Hitler Addresses Reichstag Outlines 4 Dangerous Groups:
    1)Communists/Bolsheviks
    2)Former Politcal Party Leaders
    3)Leftist Revolutionaries headed by Roehm
    4)Critics and Rumormongers

    Fringe.?? Ludicrous.!

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  35. wat dabney (3,724 comments) says:

    The idea that facism is a left wing ideology is a statement of bald fact.

    It belongs there with all the other collectivists ideologies.

    The fact that you don’t agree with some of its policies doesn’t make it any less left wing. That’s like a Socialist claiming that Communism is right wing. There is much in Fascism/Nazism for Socialists to admire, and its similarities to Communism are profound.

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  36. Yoza (1,808 comments) says:

    Kleva Kiwi (264 comments) says:
    April 8th, 2014 at 1:40 pm

    It amuses me how people fall for fascism being “far right” when in fact it is far closer to “far left” ideology

    Doesn’t the article point out they are keeping a right-wing Prime minister in power?

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  37. stephieboy (2,788 comments) says:

    wat dabney ,Hitler’s actions as I demonstrated above actually show that what you say is not true and is in fact is sheer lunacy.!

    http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/NazismSocialism.html

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  38. wat dabney (3,724 comments) says:

    stephieboy,

    I’m not surprised that you are completely ignorant of the racist history of the labour cartels

    http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/2010/1/cj30n1-4.pdf

    As for Hitler’s hatred of Communism, it is essentially because he saw it as a Jewish plot because of its intellectual history. Given the striking similarities between Nazism and Communism, do you really imagine that they were somehow polar opposites? They hated each other because they were competing so closely for the non-democratic support. Huge numbers of ex-Communist Party members joined the Nazi Party because they were promising the same thing. As the Nazis said at the time, those ex-Communists made the best Nazis.

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  39. wat dabney (3,724 comments) says:

    Hitler’s actions as I demonstrated above actually show that what you say is not true and is in fact is sheer lunacy.!

    All those actions demonstrate is a will to power and a willingness to crush anyone competing for that power. Do you imagine that violent left-wing thugs don’t compete with each other in their quest for power over everyone?

    In Russia the Leninists crushed the Trotskyites in the same way that the Nazis crushed Bolshevik Communism. In each case the two antagonist movements are notable for their extreme similarities. Or would you argue that Trotskyism was an “extreme right” movement?

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  40. ShawnLH (4,600 comments) says:

    “The idea that facism is a left wing ideology is pretty fringe.”

    From the horses mouth so to speak:

    “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” –Adolf Hitler

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  41. stephieboy (2,788 comments) says:

    All I wish to say that your moreno article is a product of the Cato Institute which in turn is sponsored by the Koch bothers who both in turn support and sponsor the bogus grass roots movement , the Tea Party.
    It tell us heaps where you are coming form including the ever dwindling and declining NZ based far right Libertarian movement .It helps to explain the underlying hysteria and paranoia in your posts thus far.

    http://www.cato.org/events/tea-party-patriots-second-american-revolution

    But shawn , re the horses mouth -that did not stop him turning against Roehm and the SA , destroying the left wing faction in his party. He needed IG Farben and Krupp etc to re arm and fight a war.

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  42. ShawnLH (4,600 comments) says:

    “All I wish to say that your Colenso article is a product of the Cato Institute which in turn is sponsored by the Koch bothers who both in turn support and sponsor the bogus grass roots movement , the Tea Party.”

    And the difference between this and Ugly and Reid’s conspiracy theories is???

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  43. ShawnLH (4,600 comments) says:

    “But shawn , re the horses mouth that did not stop him turning against Roehm and the SA , destroying the left wing faction in his party. He needed IG Farben and Krupp etc to fight a war.”

    True. Hitler himself used ideology as a means to an end rather than an end in itself, and his only end was war, especially and centrally against the Jews.

    To put some balance on this, real fascism cannot easily be reduced to either left or right categories. It was a kind of fusionism that had elements of both, and still does. However the influence of socialism on early fascism is clear, and most easily seen in the life and ideology of Mussolini.

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  44. stephieboy (2,788 comments) says:

    But shawn your wedded to the idea that Socialism and National Socialism are somehow conflated . Hitler was only socialist in name . The first group he rounded up in 1933 and sent off to Dachau and other concentrations camps were socialists. social democrats and communists.All these organizations were banned and membership made illegal . Many, of course, were eventually murdered or executed.
    Recall also how Henry Ford was a great admirer of Hitler and was fully aware that Hitler’s “socialism” was only pure rhetoric
    When Henry Ford announced that he might run for president in 1923, the little-known Hitler told the Chicago Tribune that he would like to send shock troops to Chicago to assist in the campaign. Later in 1938, the year of Kristallnacht, Ford was awarded the Grand Cross of the German Eagle, the highest civilian award given by the nazis. Ford accepted it with pride, and Ford’s company collaborated with the nazis as late as August 1942.

    I

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  45. tom hunter (4,729 comments) says:

    The first group he rounded up in 1933 and sent off to Dachau and other concentrations camps were socialists. social democrats and communists

    Lenin and Stalin sent socialists, social democrats and communists to the gulags, often to their deaths. I guess that makes them “right-wing” also.

    Ford’s company collaborated with the nazis as late as August 1942.

    The US government kept the phone lines open between Detroit and Berlin after December 1941? Fascinating.

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  46. ShawnLH (4,600 comments) says:

    “But shawn your wedded to the idea that Socialism and National Socialism are somehow conflated”

    Because they were. Hitler himself may have had little interest in ideology, but as you yourself point out there was a left to the Nazi party, The S.A. and the Strasser brothers. Other forms of fascism had an even sharper anti-capitalist ideology, notably the Romanian Iron Guard. And to take another example, Oswald Mosely of the British Union of Fascists began his political career in the Brit Labour party, and left them to form the BUF in part because they were not willing to intervene in the econmy to the degree he wanted. Mussolini began his political career very much on the hard Left, and edited a well known socialist newspaper. This anti-capitalist attitude can be seen among many neo-fascist groups today, especially the Third Positionists.

    That Fascists imprisoned and murdered groups on the Left had less to do with differences over economics than differences over attitudes to what the Fascists considered the national interest. They opposed such parties not because they were socialist on economics, but because they were internationalists.

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  47. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Well how the hell did the Nazis recover German industry in the ’30’s if they weren’t in bed with the industrialists?

    And since when does the left climb into bed with them?

    The definition of facism is a coalition between the state and industry. That’s what it means. It’s a combination of the left’s big govt and the conservative’s desire for business efficiency. Only, like communism, it’s a charade. It’s neither left nor right and the only people who think it’s one or the other are those who haven’t even learned yet to divorce themselves from that political charade that informs most of today’s 21st century political discourse.

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  48. tom hunter (4,729 comments) says:

    … sponsored by the Koch bothers who both in turn support and sponsor the bogus grass roots movement , the Tea Party.

    … also gay marriage and hospitals (which promptly received protests from caring compassionate liberals). Even …..Democrat Senators from New York.

    No, no. Thank you Senator Schumer (D). Good to know how bogus you are.

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  49. ShawnLH (4,600 comments) says:

    “Well how the hell did the Nazis recover German industry if they weren’t in bed with the industrialists?”

    That does not mean they were passionate pro-capitalists. It was Realpolitik driven by the fact that once in power they had to actually run the country in some way that did not gut the economy.

    “And since when does the left climb into bed with them?”

    All the time. NZ Labour called it “Third Way.” The Greens want a partnership with business so they can “pick winners” and encourage (force) what they consider “green jobs.”

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  50. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    That does not mean they were passionate pro-capitalists.

    I wasn’t saying they were Shawn. Can’t you read?

    All the time. NZ Labour called it “Third Way.”

    No UK Labour called it that and since Hulun’s mentor was Blair she adopted the course but she never called it that. Do pay attention. But I only made that comment for the benefit of those who hallucinate the Nazis were either left or right. Again, can’t you read?

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  51. ShawnLH (4,600 comments) says:

    “I wasn’t saying they were Shawn. Can’t you read?”

    Your mindless conspiracy laden ranting is often difficult to decipher, a sign of mental illness I suspect.

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  52. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Your mindless conspiracy laden ranting is often difficult to decipher, a sign of mental illness I suspect.

    But no argument against it once you’d read it twice, or three times then? Penetrating cognitive dissonance isn’t easy is it Shawn. It helps if you’ve got a 3-digit IQ but I know you don’t so I promise in future to use smaller words, just for you.

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  53. ChardonnayGuy (1,199 comments) says:

    Is it “only Hungary,” though, David? What about Greece’s Golden Dawn, Serbia’s right-wing extremist groups, Anders Breivik and above all, the French National Front, given its success in French local elections? I’m very much afraid that Hungary’s obnoxious Jobbik is only part of an overall picture and a worrying one at that.

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  54. Fentex (936 comments) says:

    Further to the point that peoples choices when voting aren’t ideal, have a look at this description of recent events in Quebec.

    A Nationalist party voted in because they were an alternative to corruption, but then is turfed out promptly when it makes the mistake of thinking it was elected because of it’s Nationalist extremes rather than as a protest.

    Electors make compromises when voting, the characteristics of those voted for are not necessarily characteristic of their electors when circumstances limit electors choice.

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