Engage respectfully, without personal attacks

May 15th, 2014 at 4:35 pm by David Farrar

The Green Party boast their values are intrinsic to who they are, and how it makes them different from other parties.

One value is:

Engage respectfully, without personal attacks

Green Party List MP tweeted this earlier today:

BnpUnrwCUAA381I

Hat Tip: Jessica Williams

The tweet speaks for itself. what you might expect from a demented activist, but not an MP. If Logie was an electorate MP, I have no doubt she would never make such a tweet – she’d lose her seat.

Anyway the next time Green MPs goe on about their values, and how they “engage respectfully”, just recall this tweet.

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88 Responses to “Engage respectfully, without personal attacks”

  1. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    Who the fuck is Jan Logie and is there a voter in this country who actually cares?

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  2. peterwn (3,272 comments) says:

    But the Nats are such big ratbags in the eyes of left wingers that anything goes whether it be smears, defacing hoardings or what have you.

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  3. kowtow (8,475 comments) says:

    There are so many things wrong with what Logie has written there.( In our pathetic PC world)

    If the tables were turned and a white middle class Christian male made a similar comment about a fecund female ,preferably of a visible minority type……. those commies would be screaming blue murder and demanding his resignation,

    The cultural marxist media would jump on the band wagon and Catholic Bill would definitely be history.

    But in this case ,nothing will happen. Guarantee.

    Double standards are the new standard.

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  4. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Keep up it up Greens. This sort of gutter politics has lost the last two elections for the communist block. Maybe it will work this time ;)

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  5. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    Who is Jan Logie? Why haven’t I heard of her?

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  6. Zebulon (114 comments) says:

    National should encourage this type of behaviour as the only person it reflects badly on is the person spouting forth

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  7. RF (1,398 comments) says:

    A maggot has more class than this idiot.

    Pure evil.

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  8. Huevon (222 comments) says:

    Who is Jan Logie?

    She is a pro-abortion activist. Mad as a snake. This kind of tweet is perfectly in character.

    The Left really are a nasty, spiteful bunch.

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  9. Southern Raider (1,829 comments) says:

    So Huevon the tweet response from English could have been at least I don’t promote killing babies

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  10. doggone7 (805 comments) says:

    Well at least it gave everyone a chance to “engage respectfully, without personal attacks.”

    And I suppose the question “Who is Jan Logie?” could be answered by suggesting that whoever she is, she has much company.

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  11. jaba (2,142 comments) says:

    did I hear Logie announce on backbenchers last night that does or at least has smoked the wild green weed to help her mentally??

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  12. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Here’s Jan Logie asking Judith Collins questions last week

    http://www.inthehouse.co.nz/video/32656

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  13. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘If Logie was an electorate MP, I have no doubt she would never make such a tweet – she’d lose her seat.’
    Is there any actual evidence that electorate MPs are so restrained?

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  14. Phil (127 comments) says:

    I don’t this is a personal attack per-se. It strikes me more as an attempt at a joke that has failed to ‘stick the landing’ on the punchline.

    I’d go with something like:

    Bill English has produced as many budgets as children… must be plenty of cold nights inside the Treasury offices
    Bill English has produced as many budgets as children… and Mary still has a great figure for figures
    Bill English has produced as many budgets as children… and he still refuses to give them anything at Christmas

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  15. Igotta Numbum (463 comments) says:

    Funny thing is, if i responded on twitter by calling her a dumb slag for saying that, I’d be instantly blocked.

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  16. gump (1,649 comments) says:

    I am no friend of the Green Party, but it seems very poor form to criticise an entire party for the behavior of a single member who isn’t in a leadership position.

    Judith Collins wasn’t above making personal attacks on other MPs. She tweeted that Metiria Turei was “vile, wrong and ugly, just like her jacket today”.

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  17. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Is she the yank one? Who felt the need to move here and tell dime how to live, steal more of his money etc

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  18. Ross12 (1,428 comments) says:

    Some of these idiots using social media just don’t get it –act like an idiot and everyone including your opposition knows in five minutes.
    Their brains, if they have any, are you know where.

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  19. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    dime – no, that’s Julie Anne Genter, one of the better Green MPs.

    I think Phil is right, an attempt at a dig/joke that didn’t work very well, it has got quite a bit of negative attention. She responded to one query about her behaviour with:

    I know! I just couldn’t resist. It was just such a weird thing to say. Sorry about that.

    An odd explanation but with an apology.

    It was tweeted while in Parliament so it can give a bit of an insight into how they think as others are speaking.

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  20. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    What annoys me more than anything is that she’s one of those illiterates who doesn’t understand the proper meaning of “begs the question”.

    There really needs to be an IQ test for MPs.

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  21. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Logie is a dog, but I have never heard such a goose as Parker being questioned by Larry Williams, 5.15 pm. No wonder he went broke, he has the fiscal nous of a piss head staggering along Courtenay Place at 2 am.

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  22. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  23. waikatosinger (58 comments) says:

    Her first thought was probably that this was funny. Pity she didn’t wait for those second thoughts to kick in.

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  24. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Jan Logie is just another muppet who doesn’t engage their brain before they hit the ‘Send’ button…..

    Perhaps her writing skills took a hammering when she was Sue Bradford’s PA a few years back…. :lol:

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  25. dad4justice (8,222 comments) says:

    Twitter is for the mentally deranged and the Greens are fuckwits.
    The world has gone silly. Bring back the cane!

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  26. Jimbo (43 comments) says:

    Oh no. dad4justice is back. Please, David, spare us.

    Mind you he’s not much more ignorant than any of the other commenters who have heaped foul-mouthed abuse on Jan Logie in a post about how foul-mouthed personal attacks are kind of a bad thing.

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  27. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    If only – Hating John Key – was an actual policy, the GreenLabour party would be winning votes flat-out. But it’s not :)

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  28. ex-golfer (161 comments) says:

    Saw Logie arguing today that not providing the “in-work tax credit” to those on benefits was discriminatory.
    By that logic, those of us in work could claim discrimination that we cannot claim a benefit on top of our wages!
    I look forward to her announcement that benefits will be extended to ALL New Zealanders, whether they work or not.

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  29. doggone7 (805 comments) says:

    gump : “Judith Collins wasn’t above making personal attacks on other MPs. She tweeted that Metiria Turei was “vile, wrong and ugly, just like her jacket today”.

    The same Judith Collins who said that Ms Turei was a ‘sensitive little sausage” when Turei reacted to the barbs? The same Judith Collins who is on leave because she is sensitive to the pressure she has been under after not being honest?

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  30. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (890 comments) says:

    What else you expect from the rats that live in gutter?

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  31. Steve Wrathall (284 comments) says:

    And she’s ranked #9 for this election; https://www.greens.org.nz/people/candidates
    Hmmmmm…wonder if they’ll do anything about that?

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  32. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (890 comments) says:

    Steve Wrathall (214 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 6:11 pm
    And she’s ranked #9 for this election; https://www.greens.org.nz/people/candidates
    Hmmmmm…wonder if they’ll do anything about that?

    Oh yeah, she will be moved to number 5 now.

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  33. Keeping Stock (10,340 comments) says:

    32 comments in, and Toad hasn’t joined the discussion yet; funny that.

    In the meantime, what to DPF, Jan Logie and I have in common? No one voted for any of us :D

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  34. Keeping Stock (10,340 comments) says:

    @ Judith (5.29pm) – the issue is that the Greens place themselves on a moral pedestal. They are ever so principled, and supposedly don’t indulge in the daft, childish name-calling and game-playing that goes on in the House.

    Unfortunately, Ms Logie has blown that theory out the window. The Greens, for all their rhetoric about being principled and engaging “respectfully, without personal attacks” are just as bad as any members of any other parties. Rod Donald would be turning in his grave.

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  35. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    How can you know that no one voted Green because of Jan Logie specifically?

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  36. iMP (2,385 comments) says:

    Yup, keeping it CLEAN and Green…Oh wait, that was last election.

    Bill: “Hi Colin, got space for another applicant on that rogering Russell defamation suit?”

    Colin: “Sure Bill, jump in. No one else is holding the Greens to account for their colourful politics.”

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  37. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Rex: What about that old crow that shoplifted, wasn’t she one of this tribe?

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  38. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    @doggone7

    The same Judith Collins who hasn’t resorted to the race or gender card at the first sign of criticism? Give the woman some credit.

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  39. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Keeping Stock (9,863 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 6:28 pm

    Oh come one KS – the Green Party by the very nature of their existence is hypocritical to the laws of relativity.

    Honestly, Bill would have thought the comment was funny, and I have read several p-takes of it that are even funnier which I know sweet willy will be chuckling over. He is so super proud of his stud abilities and always takes comments about his large family on the chin.

    This is the eve of the budget. Bill introduced us to his new baby a few hours back which was followed by harsh criticism from other parties, and the best comment DPF can find to comment over is this tweet?

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  40. Rich Prick (1,705 comments) says:

    I know I’ll be down-voted for this, but here’s a test:

    “Jan Logie produced 1,543 electoral votes at the last election, begs the question, who did she f&%k to produce them?”

    That ought to get the hypocrites hopping mad. Or it’ll be “she was only joking”, whereas I’ve been a sexist arsehole.

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  41. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    She is merely taking her cue from the politics of envy displayed by the Turtle faced, squeaky voiced creature that is one of her so called leaders. :)

    What a pathetic display that little ginga creep put up after the virtuoso performance of JK! :)

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  42. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Still he outdid the very short response put up by the temporary leader of the disfunctional inheritors of the M.J. Savage Party! :)

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  43. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Rich Prick (1,368 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 6:54 pm

    ?? been ?? Past tense?

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  44. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Gidday Minus! Glad that you still are obsessed! :)

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  45. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (13,546 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 6:59 pm

    Off the topic, but are you meaning ‘minus’ the poster or just that someone keeps voting you down?

    Happens to me all the time, can’t for the life of me work out why ;-)

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  46. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Nah It’s not minus Judith, he’s a good guy. It’s the almost permanent bastard that spends it’s whole useless life here dedicated to giving me downticks. I used to call it Minus Monster but I got pissed having to type so much regarding it so I started calling it Minus. minus came on the scene later hence the confusion. I look forward to my interaction with Minus. It gives me reason to continue to appear here cause to be honest the rest of you are hardly an incentive! :)

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  47. Rich Prick (1,705 comments) says:

    Thanks Judith for participating in the test. “Dancing on a pin-head” is in the lead.

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  48. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I sometimes give you downticks JB, just so you don’t miss out.

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  49. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    The Ferret told me you were a fuckin wanker milkey! :)

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  50. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Whats your pick for next week then milkey?

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  51. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Rich Prick (1,369 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 7:07 pm

    Always happy to help out :P talk about leaving yourself exposed in that way! It was begging to be addressed~! :-)

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  52. Rich Prick (1,705 comments) says:

    Judith, you allege I’m a sexist arsehole, my test example aside, please produce your evidence.

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  53. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    She is merely taking her cue from the politics of envy displayed by the Turtle faced, squeaky voiced creature that is one of her so called leaders.

    Johnboy, that description had me in tears. I tried to read it out to someone 5 times but kept failing at Turtle :)

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  54. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    Meanwhile, in Canberra…

    https://vine.co/v/MXiu7w3352W

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  55. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Rich Prick (1,370 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 7:18 pm

    No I didn’t – You made the comment about yourself, I merely questioned the tense of your comment – whether you were referring to ‘past’ when you may have meant ‘present’. ‘been’ as opposed to ‘are’.

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  56. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Wussel and David are I suspect long lost fraternal twins Kea.

    They both bear a striking resemblence to a Turtle and by their policies have a similar intellectual capacity to said Turtle. :)

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  57. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    I particularly had a jolly good larf at this yesterday Kea!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/news-cartoons/news/article.cfm?c_id=500814&objectid=11254568

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  58. themanwhowatches (32 comments) says:

    doggone7@6:07pm – most of the time I consider you to be a delusional left wing nut case, but the good news is that in this one post I agree with you. Nasty slagging off of your political opponents should be the preserve of Labour and the Greens, who are much better at it. Except maybe Winston who is/was/or maybe wasn’t a part owner of a race horse.

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  59. Rich Prick (1,705 comments) says:

    Comprehension is not your strong point is it Judith? I was posing an answer the hypocrites will have for me, I was not claiming to be sexist.

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  60. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Rich Prick (1,371 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 7:37 pm
    Comprehension is not your strong point is it Judith? I was posing an answer the hypocrites will have for me, I was not claiming to be sexist.

    Nothing wrong with my comprehension at all – it states very clearly at the end of your 6.54 pm comment

    whereas I’ve been a sexist arsehole.

    Now, are you trying to tell us that you’d like to withdraw that comment about yourself?

    I can’t understand why you would say you are something that you aren’t – you’re not a politician are you? :P

    Do you really think the hypocrites (I presume you mean the Green Party) will give you the slightest thought? I suspect they are too busy chasing their own tails to think about you.

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  61. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    I think he meant “Sexiest arsehole” Judith! :)

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  62. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Wow, what a dog whistle.

    The Nats make hay with the line 6 budgets and 6 children and invite this riposte, then someone sulks that this is not respectful.

    This after the PM’s immature National club schoolboy stand-up routine in the beginning of his budget speech to Parliament.

    Really? Seriously.

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  63. big bruv (13,897 comments) says:

    Like others I am left with the question…..

    Who the fuck is Jan Logie?

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  64. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    You phrased it wrong bb. You meant to say: “Who would fuck Jan Logie! ” :)

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  65. themanwhowatches (32 comments) says:

    spc, you bias shows. Nobody is sulking, just pointing out that one of the Greens is not quite as respectful as their own tenet requires. As for the PM’s performance, if anybody in any of the Opposition parties can beat that then let’s hear it. I do hope you don’t think everything said in Parliament should be taken seriously – sometimes just mocking your opposition is enough. Helen Clark was very good at it as I recall, without any sense of humor, but Dr. Michael Cullen managed both the mockery and the humor. And frequently. Lighten up SPC.

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  66. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Why no comment to Farrar to lighten up? Oh that’s right it was a call to take shots at the Greens, nothing partisan and overly prissy.

    It’s the bias that was being contended with. Spin to the point of self parody.

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  67. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    I think the thing that pisses me off the most is the moral high-ground the greens seek to inhabit, and then, when they come out with shit like this, wonder what happened.

    They are utter hypocrites. They are ALL leaders, and we should demand they inhabit a space that reflects what we as a society thinks our leaders should look and act like.

    I can imagine the reaction if the 9th ranked National member (!) told her via twitter that someone would be a right idiot to end up balls deep in her. Thankfully JK would sack him / her in a heart beat.

    Wusell, will you act? CastleGirl, you? Yeah, thought not. But you will continue to hold the government that you despise to a far higher standard than you can ever deliver.

    And you wonder why you are held not only in contempt but seen as dangerous and not giving a damn about what the people you seek to represent think.

    Oh and toad, you’re a spineless hypocritical wanker. Defend or decry – your call.

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  68. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Er no. Saying that the government has fucked over some New Zealanders to get back into budget surplus is not a personal attack on anyone, it is a political criticism.

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  69. Ed Snack (1,872 comments) says:

    And I though Judith was referring to Jan Logie, implying that she was continuing to hump members of her electorate chasing votes, so gave her an uptick for (finally) finding a sense of humour.

    Looks like it was sadly misplaced and I need to check my reading comprehension.

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  70. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    I think the thing that pisses me off the most is the moral high-ground the greens seek to inhabit, and then, when they come out with shit like this, wonder what happened.

    This. This is why relatively small things like Logie’s brainfart get jumped on. Not because it’s a big deal in the scheme of things, it’s that the whole Greens ethos is supposed to be about being morally superior. Things like this indicate how that’s just another hollow branding exercise, SPC.

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  71. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    No, not a hollow branding exercise. Nor is it about being morally superior, just seeking to treat others with respect.

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  72. themanwhowatches (32 comments) says:

    spc – what adze just said. You don’t really get it do you? To explain, if you are going to claim to be above personal attacks of the kind Ms. Logie made, even is it was (as she now seems to suggest) her warped sense of humor gone wrong (and not just a brain fart), you have to live up to the claim. Or otherwise be seen for what you are. It is quite simple, really.

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  73. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    I don’t see the comment as a personal attack, but as a political criticism.

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  74. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    It’s more like a personal attack than criticism. I just think it’s just a bit of an off joke. And hasn’t she apologised now?

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  75. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    Again, if you seek to inhabit the morale high ground, expect to get kicked when you talk about fucking NZ’ers. Our MP’s, all of them, whatever colour fwag they wave, represent us, both here and globally.

    Defend and divert all you want. She should be sacked if the greens are serious. But that will not happen.

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  76. RF (1,398 comments) says:

    Where are the gutless green posters. Too scared to show their faces to decry the stupid tweet. I hear that the green MP clown over on the coast is very unpopular concerning his parties stance concerning wind blown native trees. They would sooner let them rot on the ground rather than provide 100s of jobs for the coasters.

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  77. Rich Prick (1,705 comments) says:

    RF, don’t hold your breath, you’ll turn a shade of blue. #HeyClint has no idea of what to do about this silly bint’s outburst. Brains and veins are bursting at Green HQ. Perhaps they need to join Labour in their war-room, whoops, I mean bunker.

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  78. doggone7 (805 comments) says:

    themanwhowatches:

    I can’t think what I’ve written which could possibly demonstrate being “delusional and a nut case”. I would suggest you read bits I have written again. I could also suggest a dictionary to clarify “delusional”, but a mirror should do.

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  79. tom hunter (4,843 comments) says:

    Heh. It’s like those wonderful calls for “civility” in the USA, like the one that then Demoract Majority Leader, Steny Hoyer, issued back in 2010:

    “There are obviously clearly differences of opinion in the country and among members of Congress and between the parties,” Hoyer told reporters. “But that debate ought to be civil, it ought to be constructive, and it ought to be designed to educate the public, not to incite the public.”

    The next day a Democrat from Minnesota followed this up

    I applaud my colleague from Oklahoma for her resolution because it serves as a reminder that right-wing, anti-government extremist groups are on the rise today. …

    Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center states, ‘Individuals associated with the Patriot movement during its 1990s heyday produced an enormous amount of violence, most dramatically the Oklahoma City bombing…’
    Today, Mr. Potok states, ‘as the movement has exploded, so has the reach of its ideas, aided and abetted by commentators and politicians…’

    Of course she ended by calling for the following:

    The Members of this House Democrats and Republicans – have a duty and an obligation to end the dangerous name-calling that can only inspire the extremist militias and phony patriots.

    Sure, sure. Let’s end name-calling by saying that her political opponents are would-be mass murderers.

    Then there’s this recent outburst from across the Tasman at the ABC:

    Allowing politicians whose ambition and arrogance greatly outweigh their abilities and character to acquire their own private armies is seldom a good idea.

    To take just one obvious example: when Adolf Hitler gave his mate Heinrich Himmler control of the SS in 1929, the organisation was a single battalion of 290. Within a year Himmler had raised its ranks to 3,000 and by the time Hitler gained supreme power in 1933 the SS numbered 52,000. And so it went.

    Gosh, where is the analysis headed?

    Yes, I know, any mention of Hitler means I lose the argument. Gerard Henderson has said so and Gerard Henderson is always right, or at least Right. But that does not alter the fact that Scott Morrison has already done great damage to Australia’s reputation and to our foreign policy. And something warns me that we ain’t seen nothing yet.

    Can’t fucking help themselves. This knee-jerk shit from too many of the Left is one reason why I take no notice of all the outraged squeals about the book Liberal Fascism – which takes on decades of mindless equating of Western Right-wing parties with the Nazi’s by throwing the charge back in the face of the Left. Amidst the complaining about how unfair the comparison is are claims that only a very few Lefties have ever made the comparison, or that it’s so obviously stupid that nobody should take any notice of it.

    At least until it’s politically useful.

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  80. Rich Prick (1,705 comments) says:

    Err Tom, what does that have to do with a Greenie whack-job’s twitter outburst? She may have sprayed her piss about the shop like a mad lady, but it’s not a general invite.

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  81. tom hunter (4,843 comments) says:

    It’s one and the same thing Rich Prick; civility towards right-wingers in any Western country. The endless attempts to portray the Right – even a Right has moderate as National – as a bunch of evil pricks who do evil things, usually just for money.

    Hell, just compare DPF’s thread headline with Hoyer’s comments.

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  82. Rich Prick (1,705 comments) says:

    Ah got ya, sorry slow night at The Mill.

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  83. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    Oh come on, that’s quite funny – not laugh out loud funny, but at least worth a little grin.

    I’m loving all the faux outrage here – think of the children!
    Particularly loving all the faux outage from people that post pages and pages of drivel about PC madness, out of contol, need to lighten up, it’s just a joke etc etc.
    Now they are suddenly outraged!

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  84. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    Oh and Collins has tweeted far worse – nasty stuff without any humour. But I guess that’s okay.

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  85. Paulus (2,627 comments) says:

    The Greenpeace Party show why MMP is a rathole – typified by somebody called Logie.

    How can we change it to make all desirous MP’s stand in an electorate, and be selected on their votes.

    This list is a fiasco – even Winston once got a Electorate seat. Am I allowed to say that or will I be sued ?

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  86. itstricky (1,831 comments) says:

    Oh and Collins has tweeted far worse – nasty stuff without any humour. But I guess that’s okay.

    (Quote) Yo mamma so fat she….. Well I don’t know… ….I just don’t like your jacket…beeeeaaaatch! (Unquote)

    Terrible terrible attempt by Miss Jan, overblown on this post by the usuals who paint everyone with the same brush.

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  87. Scott (1,800 comments) says:

    One thing I would say is that I blame our political system. I blame MMP for foisting upon the electorate radical MPs like Jan Logie who describes herself as a lesbian feminist activist. Would she win the confidence of any electorate? I very much doubt it.
    MMP has given us heaps of radicals in the Green party particularly who it appears to me have agendas sharply at variance with the majority of New Zealanders.

    Kevin Hague – relentless homosexual activism, Sue Bradford – the anti-smacking bill which was opposed by 85% of the electorate and Nándor Tánczos whose purpose in life was to get us all stoned by decriminalising marijuana are 3 examples off the top of my head.

    I would suggest that none of those MPs would have been elected if they had to face an actual electorate.

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  88. ross411 (839 comments) says:

    Judge not, lest ye be judged. I hope Jan has learned her lesson.

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