From No to No comment

May 29th, 2014 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

NZ First Leader Winston Peters refused to answer questions about his ugly parliamentary put-down of his rogue former MP in his first day back after making the comment a week ago.

Reacting to a series of interruptions from Mr Horan, who is running a campaign against his former political mentor, Mr Peters had referred to him in the House as “the Jimmy Savile of New Zealand politics”. British broadcaster Savile was accused after his death of child sex abuse.

Mr Peters avoided reporters on the way from the House after offering the insult but was back yesterday. Asked what he meant by the comment his response was “next question” which he gave 10 more times to follow up questions.

So he cowers behind parliamentary privilege. Such a nasty piece of work. If he said outside the House, what he said inside, he would be facing the largest defamation suit in New Zealand’s history I’d say.

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45 Responses to “From No to No comment”

  1. mandk (993 comments) says:

    Yes, he is a nasty piece of work. And yet he seems to have a good-sized loyal following. Demagoguery still has a place in NZ politics.

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  2. PaulP (150 comments) says:

    I know it’s a slippery slope as where do you draw the line but there should be limits on parliamentary privilege so it does not cover personal abuse and defamation that is not related to any policy or legislative debate.

    I’m not fan of Horan but Winston should put up or apologise.

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  3. BeaB (2,123 comments) says:

    I get a bit tired of MPs (and the media) getting precious about their rights. This is the modern world and the king isn’t going to throw anyone in the Tower.

    The simple way to deal with this kind of personal accusation (sexual offences, financial impropriety, dishonesty etc) is for the MP to be required to give the Speaker evidence.

    If it is just vitriol then the MP should have to make a statement in the House to say so.

    And if Peters knows anything about anyone offending against a child he should go to the police.

    How is that child being protected? Are children still in danger?

    Surely as a responsible citizen, much less an MP, he is duty bound to report what he knows.

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  4. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  5. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    Judith.
    IIRC WO said that Horan fu*ked a teenager, not a kid, I dont remember when it was meant to have happened either.

    edit.
    Horan is nearly 53 so pretty creepy even if she was 18.

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  6. Cunningham (844 comments) says:

    Winston offers nothing good to NZ. He is just a pathetic old man whose only goal is to stir up hatred. The sooner he goes the better.

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  7. hannity (152 comments) says:

    Its must be galling for John Key to know that he will be on his knees begging for the chance to work for- ‘ the same ‘nasty piece of work’- come September.

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  8. freedom101 (504 comments) says:

    Time for John Key to rule out working with this vagabond, thereby consigning him to irrelevancy and a plunge below 5%. This souffle surely cannot rise three times. This would also leave Cunliffe alone trying to explain why and how he would work with Winston.

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  9. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    Judith
    Wheres that link… id be very careful if i was Whaleoil
    I find it a slur on parliament what he did, i really hope that the conservatives take his votes so he doesnt get to 5%

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  10. queenstfarmer (782 comments) says:

    Time for John Key to rule out working with Winston.

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  11. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ martinh (1,081 comments) says:
    May 29th, 2014 at 10:27 am

    Oh believe me, I am not the least bit impressed with what Winston did either. I am appalled at the name calling and personal attacks by many MP’s as well. I think it reduces the state of our parliament to kindergarten level, and these are meant to be mature upstanding examples – I think it stinks.

    The link to that article was posted in threads a couple of times last week – it was an article Whaleoil had in the Truth about Horan and painted a picture of a man with no restraint.

    The fact is, like it or not – if Winston is held to explain – technically he could use that excuse – Jimmy Saville was accused of all sorts of sexual impropriety (yes some of it children, but there were also teenagers involved). Winston only needs to play the ‘Jimmy Saville’ meant someone ‘accused’ card, and he is correct – whether he is ‘right’ as in behaving in a manner becoming to a MP, is an entirely different argument.

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  12. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    Judith
    I couldnt find it, perhaps WO has removed it and is being a Winston himself

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  13. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Found the link on the other thread which shows the article front page I think there was another link to the article itself, I will keep checking :-

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2012/12/truth-out-tomorrow-youll-want-a-copy-of-this-one/

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  14. Captain Pugwash (98 comments) says:

    I’ve always maintained that good ole Winston Peters keeps em honest! Any man standing next to Winston Peters would be considered honest in comparison.

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  15. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    Thanks Judith
    Seems a long way from what Winston thought he was being smart saying.

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  16. OTGO (549 comments) says:

    John Key won’t rule out working with Winston this time because he knows he is going to need him and that forming a government with WP is better than not forming a government.

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  17. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ martinh (1,083 comments) says:
    May 29th, 2014 at 10:45 am

    Oh no doubts, Winston was having a hissy fit and shot his mouth off. I’m not defending him, just warning that if it was to become a big issue in the house – Winston has a ‘factual’ out. Jimmy Saville was never convicted of any sexual impropriety – only accused and never charged – those people who automatically apply the false title of pedophile to him – are actually no better – the man could have been innocent – we do not know.

    (Very interesting to see how many of us – myself and MP’s included – insisted on immediately applying the accusation of a pedophile as a certainty though!) We hear the name Jimmy Saville and we automatically have him convicted. The power of the spoken word huh?

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  18. Tarquin North (297 comments) says:

    Either Winston has realised if you’re in a hole stop digging – a rare trait for a politician, or he forgot what he said. I would normally go with option one, but the way he’s been carrying on lately it could be caused by anything from alcohol to martians using telepathy.

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  19. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I think you are splitting hairs a bit too finely there Judith. I don’t think there is any doubt that by calling Horan ‘Jimmy Saville’ he was accusing him of being a child molester.

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  20. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    JUdith
    True, but its hard to imagine what other meaning Winston could of meant.
    Impossible anyone who watches the news or reads the news websites could of missed the news about the allegations him in the last few years

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  21. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (888 comments) says:

    “More to come”…..

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  22. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    I find myself in the most unusual position of agreeing with Judith @ 10.33…Peters indeed COULD play the “Savile was accused but never convicted of sex crimes…Horan has been accused…” card… but I suspect he is very loathe to “go there” for fear of what might slip out of his mouth if he started engaging with journos on the issue…

    Either way, it is quite clear he is misusing parliamentary privilege to make a slur he is not prepared to repeat outside the House…that is not the purpose of parliamentary privilege….the Professor from the frozen south would no doubt make a much better fist of explaining its purpose than me…

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  23. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild (9,641 comments) says:
    May 29th, 2014 at 11:03 am

    Most certainly splitting hairs, you are right, BUT any disciplinary action would have to deal with FACTS. The facts are clear, Jimmy Saville was never convicted, and has the status of innocent. Any suggestion that he was is speculation. He had been accused – just as many other men have been. That does not mean he was guilty.

    Splitting hairs or not – Winston did not clarify his name calling and if asked to – I suspect he will simply say he meant that Horan was accused of inappropriate sexual behaviour. He would win on facts – despite us all knowing differently!

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  24. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    “We hear the name Jimmy Saville and we automatically have him convicted. The power of the spoken word huh?”

    Well that and we’ve read all the statements from his victims…Saville is lucky he died, otherwise he’d be in Court alright. The BBC coverup was a disgrace.

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  25. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ martinh (1,084 comments) says:
    May 29th, 2014 at 11:04 am

    True, but its hard to imagine what other meaning Winston could of meant.

    Well, if my name was Winston, I would say that I meant Mr Horan was accused of sexual inappropriatness, just like Mr Saville had been.

    Does anyone have any facts to prove otherwise? The speaker (if allowed and I don’t know the rules) should have asked at the time for Winston to clarify the statement.

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  26. I Say Look Here (57 comments) says:

    Winston in his prime would never have put himself in a position of having to say “next question” on replay to the gathered throng of media. Not the way he rolls. He would have turned the heat around, ripping the heads off the reporters for asking the question before setting off on his own tangential tirade.

    Reckon this might just be some sort of ugly awakening for the wee man. He’s not what he was, and that look on his face says he’s finally realised it. You can just feel his pain, can’t you?

    Question is, how many of The Following will get onto it before September? Some will, surely?

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  27. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    JUdith
    Saville was accused of paedophillia.
    Horan seems accussed of having affairs with younger, but above age, woman.
    Theres absolutely no comparison here and so i agree with I say Look here at 11.16

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  28. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ martinh (1,085 comments) says:
    May 29th, 2014 at 11:28 am

    Savilles ‘victims’ varied in age, and whilst some where underage, there were some that were over-age and even over 20.

    There is no crime of ‘pedophilia’, that is a cause not an actual crime.

    As I said, unless someone had asked Winston to explain his name calling, and he had said he was implying that Horan was a pedophile – there isn’t a factual leg for anyone to stand on. I don’t like it either, but the facts are the facts.

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  29. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    martinh: That is my recollection also…the Truth article referred to threesomes and group sex, but not, as I recall, any allegations of sex with anyone underage. That notwithstanding, Peters could still dance on the head of a pin, and claim – as others have noted – that what he meant was both Savile and Horan had been accused of sexual impropriety…but he won’t do that, because he knows he is not as mentally agile as he was, and he may blurt out something that is actionable.

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  30. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    Judith
    Yes Winston has just shown again why he needs to be removed from govt for good.
    David G:He might struggle to have threesomes etc considered to be impropriety too!

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  31. anticorruptionnz (215 comments) says:

    I am happy to see that people think that covering up is a disgrace
    hopefully one day you may agree that it is a disgrace that the government has covered up corruption .

    I see that Winston is the only person who is trying to expose corruption and hold the government accountable.

    again we shoot the messenger, I very mush suspect that Horan ha been offered a deal to attack Winston because of the danger he poses if NZ first gets 5% of the vote . The corruption in New Zealand relies on keeping Winston out.

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  32. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    anticorruption
    Are you telling me you respect someone who unjustly implies someone is a pedo?

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  33. I Say Look Here (57 comments) says:

    Winston is a strange poster boy to hold up as a champion of the anti-corruption cause, I would have thought.

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  34. freedom101 (504 comments) says:

    Where is the $158,000 Winston?

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  35. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    @ anticorruptionnz – who was the last New Zealand political to be censured by Parliament for wilfully misleading his peers by filing a false peculiarly interest return?

    Quite how WRP “forgot” the $100k donation from Owen Glenn is one of life’s mysteries. Don’t hold him up as an anti-corruption bastion because he is as dodgy and venal as any politician .

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  36. altiora (279 comments) says:

    @ Judith. Whether Saville was convicted or not is of no moment. Whether defamation is made out depends on whether the reasonable person would consider Horan’s reputation has been defamed by the remark. The reasonable person would take Peters’ statement as implying that Horan had committed sexual acts similar to those Saville allegedly committed.

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  37. lastmanstanding (1,293 comments) says:

    IMHO JK and the Nats should rule out working with Winston and if that means a Coalition of Labour/Greens?NZ First/Internet Mana then so be it.

    This Coalition from hell will destroy the economy and consign the parties involved to a decade at least in the wilderness.

    Capita will flow out of the country the dollar will collapse and interest rates and inflation will soar.

    Best keep a watching brief and sell out of NZX and move your Kiwisaver to a cash only fund in advance if it looks like happening.

    Remember 800,000 didn’t vote last election. It takes around 180,000 votes to elect an MP so if Hone wins and Internet/Mana get even a third of the 800,000 votes they could hold the balance of power.

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  38. anticorruptionnz (215 comments) says:

    well who else is questioning corruption ? he may not be squeaky clean in some peoples eyes but I dont see any convictions for him .

    no one else is asking questions re corruption ,a common tactic is to attack those who do.

    I am not here to judge Winston and what I think of him is immaterial .

    if you think he is corrupt why not lay a private prosecution like Penny Bright did for John Banks she got he evidence together and its now on a home run .

    If you believe he is guilty why not lay a charge yourself its a free society do your bit but dont accuse where you are not prepared to follow through and especially not when you are hiding behind an assumed name.

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  39. anticorruptionnz (215 comments) says:

    altiora

    you are out of touch with the way defamation works in New Zealand I can tell you from experience that
    1. you allege defamation
    2. strike out the defence of truth and honest opinion
    3. because the defence is stuck out tell the court that there is no possible defence
    4. proceed straight to quantum

    that’s how its done folks int he open transparent and accountable method of justice In NZ. I can vouch that this happens it cost me nearly $100,000 in costs and penalties and then there is nothing in the world that you can do to get the decision reversed.

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  40. Richard Hurst (855 comments) says:

    It was the drink talking. The trouble is its been the drink talking for the past 20 years now with Winne. This is what MMP has brought us: Future govts potentially being decided by an elderly drunk.

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  41. altiora (279 comments) says:

    anticorruptionz: I am a lawyer, discussing the case law and actually I have lectured in the topic of defamation. So not quite as ignorant as you think. You are talking about procedure. There is a difference. And no, your summary is incorrect. IO am not sure what you mean by “strike out” and quite who is doing the “striking out”. Sounds awfully like an undefended proceedings you are describing.

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  42. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    @anticorruptionnz

    I’ve just come from the PQ thread where I stated my belief that there is indeed corruption in NZ that needs rooting out.

    I once joined NZ First because, as a journalist, I had seen too much corruption go unchecked and had been the victim of some of it. Since leaving NZF I fell victim to another example of it.

    But yes, we need in this case to shoot the messenger. To knowingly falsely accuse someone of an act, knowing that most people would find that person utterly repugnant if they believed that accusation, is inexcusable.

    Furthermore, it is itself a form of corruption: misusing a power granted to just 120 out of 4 million of us, to advance his own political agenda.

    It is precisely because we need to stand firm against corruption that we must demand Peters resign over this, or throw him out of Parliament at the first opportunity, as the voters wisely did with Ron Mark after he uttered a similar slur.

    There are others of us willing to continue the fight against corruption – a fight Winston hasn’t seriously pursued for over a decade anyway – and if the public aren’t smart enough to see the need for that outside of just electing Winston, then they’ll certainly get the government they deserve.

    To stand at his side now, excusing his own corruption in the hope he may reawaken his interest in that of others, is hypocrisy of the highest order.

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  43. ross411 (838 comments) says:

    Cunningham (795 comments) says:
    May 29th, 2014 at 10:24 am
    Winston offers nothing good to NZ. He is just a pathetic old man whose only goal is to stir up hatred. The sooner he goes the better.

    But, he had the best for us in mind when he had his party, and himself, push his partner’s employer’s drug on us. I’d love another link to gratuitously quote that gave as much detail about his TAB conflict of interest I’ve seen mentioned here in the past.

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  44. altiora (279 comments) says:

    Rex W the last thing we need is anti-corruption nutcases wasting taxpayer and court resources with their tiresome campaigns. They are the flip side of the political charlatans in the House. Like the charlatans, these so called crusaders treat our democracy as a stage on which to strut their huge egos, decked out in their own self-importance and bathed in the limelight of media attention. Normal well-adjusted people like me just want to be rid of them and all the blights on our democracy.

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  45. mara (784 comments) says:

    Laila la la.? No. She is more cunning than Dotcom who does not really “get” politics here. He has been badly advised. She now has funding and audience to advance her lefty ideas and fuck Dotcom who will soon be extradited. She will step over dead bodies to gain traction. She and Hone know that the fat German will soon be gone. It is what happens after that matters. And this unholy alliance opens the door.

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