General Debate 12 May 2014

May 12th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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317 Responses to “General Debate 12 May 2014”

  1. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    so winston says he has the info that will see Judith gone by the end of the week.
    So either way someones in for it

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  2. Andrew (84 comments) says:

    Wherein I get grumpy about Joyce misinterpreting a poll question –
    https://grumpollie.wordpress.com/2014/05/11/joyce-gets-it-wrong-and-all-we-see-are-the-trees/

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  3. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    It is with regret one reads “The DomPost” (supposedly NZ’s best paper) trying to gain traction for Labour by running a sick article on JK’s daughter. These areholes are lower than a snake’s guts and will stoop even lower, as is the left-wing norm, attempting to help a party of perverts, led by liars, tax dodgers, terrorist supporters, and weirdos.
    See media also on the socialist track moaning because some superannuitants receive other payments over $70,000. Well you left-wing losers, take a look at what these people have paid in taxes, they will have been infinitely more than any of those whining to get envious Labour/Green losers mobilised.
    To hell with taxpayers funding election campaigns. If those doing the whinging don’t have the fiscal abilities to raise their own funds, how the hell can they be expected to manage the fragile economy of a nation!
    Twyford is now getting prime airwave time by Newstalkzb, talking shit about State housing, with a political slant. Taxpayers/ratepayers should not be providing any housing, that being the responsibility of the individual, they are getting shitloads of grants now, so leave it to the landlords, and repeal the Tenancy Act.

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  4. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    On Q&A yesterday Steven Collins said:

    It’s the Labour-Greens voters that say, ironically, it would change their vote. I’m not sure where they would change them to.

    He was wrong. The polls did not ask if anyone would change their vote, just that the Collins/Oravida issue could influence their vote. That’s a very different question.

    In what is likely to be a very close election the Collins/Oravida issue may be a deciding factor, or mayh not, but it’s far too soon to tell.

    But Joyce was wrong in his claim.

    As per Andrew – did Joyce misinterpret the question? He’s usually very well informed and prepared.

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  5. Puzzled in Ekatahuna (346 comments) says:

    Legal highs seem to be gone.
    But there are still questions as to how they ever got here, since many seem to have been imported legally.
    So did Customs not have rules and standards regarding the import of this type of material?
    Customs examination and the impression of their thoroughness are a television genre in itself.
    Aren’t other imports safety tested, like for example, Chinese canned food products – do they have to comply with any New Zealand health or commerce standards?

    Stephen Beere, owner of VideoExpo and Orbital Imports, reputedly burnt off two million dollars worth of synthetic cannabis stock.
    Beere seemed to have some grounds for complaint. Last month, Customs held two consignments of product from China, saying it had not been adequately safety-tested. Then they released the first batch without completing any further tests.

    What tests?

    By the time the second shipment was released, the Government had indicated a ban was coming and removed Beere’s manufacturing licence so he couldn’t prepare it for sale. Beere had paid the tax – about $6000 – but could never sell it.

    Dermot Nottingham, whom Beere engaged to act as his advocate once the hurdles began to get steeper, says: “If you opened a takeaway, the council would be over to check you out before you cooked your first burger. It proves the ministry were not doing their job. That level of incompetence should see someone sacked.”
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10032197/Smouldering-anger-as-drug-stock-burns

    Just be happy illegal highs seem gone? It seems Customs could still explain a few details about how they ever happened, the media hasn’t …

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  6. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    igm
    yeah twyford complaining about empty state houses in the provinces being moved to auck .
    Yet the idiot also goes on about the housing shortage in auck.
    what a ridiculous political dick

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  7. flipper (4,068 comments) says:

    Andrew …..

    There is no good getting grumpy over S Joyce. He will chew you up and spit you out before breakfast, just as he did yesterday to the egotistical Corin Dann on Q + A yesterday mortningh.

    The fact is that Joyce is correct in quoting the same stats as Labour did when in officer. And his knowledge is extraordinary ….unlike that p9osessedc by noddy P.

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  8. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    Peters actually saying he will force Judiths resignation.

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  9. wreck1080 (3,919 comments) says:

    “Labour has questioned whether the Government is keeping money from Canterbury’s earthquake recovery to improve this week’s budget.

    Why are labour politicising a tragedy?

    Seems a little crappy to me. Rather nasty too, because National have done a good job in recovering from the GFC. Look at Aussie for a comparison of poor governance.

    Labour should be going after the insurance companies, not the govt.

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  10. peterwn (3,273 comments) says:

    martinh – If there was any real new info about Judith Collins it would have been out last Tuesday. Any ‘new’ information that comes to light from Labour or Winston would either be lies, smear or a re-hash of what is already known.

    Anyway the latest move from Labour’s war-room is to plant a front page story in today’s Dom Post on the cost of paying NZ Superannuation to alleged rich pricks. Labour can bang on all they like about increasing the super age, but I doubt they would make it a ‘bottom line’ coalition issue.

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  11. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    Peterwn
    Well Peters is going to have a big own goal if thats the case.
    I agree i hate the way Labour goes at rich pricks who actually pay most of this countrys way

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  12. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    Peterwn, i just read that article, labour and the greens actually say they dont want to change super to rich pricks.

    Were you deliberately misleading us?
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10033256/Super-for-rich-has-570m-price-tag

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  13. Allyson (47 comments) says:

    Another week of Winston promoting a Green/Labour government. Can someone tell me what his end game is?

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  14. mjw (396 comments) says:

    Allyson – I wouldn’t read too much into that. He has previously campaigned against National, then gone into coalition with them. Winston marches to the beat of his own drum.

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  15. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    Allyson

    Winston’s end game: The Baubles of Power, m’dear, The Baubles of Power…..

    (Same old, same old, with Winnie, nothing has changed…)

    It’s a variation on ‘The smell of the greasepaint, the roar of the crowds’ (helped by the whiskey at Bellamey’s, of course).

    Thought you should know, hope that it helps.

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  16. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    Allyson
    Winston should just be ignored until he actually does something

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  17. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    The foul Fairfax mob now have given “Tojo” Cunliffe (a known liar) lead item on their site about more socialist crap. When the hell is Gina going to sort these scum-bred messengers of socialism out . . . they are driving advertisers away in droves, she must see this!

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  18. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    There is no good getting grumpy over S Joyce. He will chew you up and spit you out before breakfast, just as he did yesterday to the egotistical Corin Dann on Q + A yesterday mortningh.

    I agree that Joyce had ir all over Corin Dannon Q&A – hence Dann didn’t have the knowledge or strength to challenge Joyce.

    The fact is that Joyce is correct in quoting the same stats as Labour did when in officer. And his knowledge is extraordinary

    And yes, Joyce’s knowledge is usually exeptionally good – so why would he make a basic error like this?

    The poll question:

    Which of these statements best describes how these issues will influence your vote in the upcoming election?

    These issues will be a factor in your decision 23%
    These issues will not have much influence 75%

    Joyce said:

    It’s the Labour-Greens voters that say, ironically, it would change their vote. I’m not sure where they would change them to.

    “Influence vote” and “it would change their vote” are quite different.

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  19. Dave Mann (1,222 comments) says:

    Does anybody else here cringe when they see all these bleating, sad looking celebrities and world leaders blubbing to camera with their pathetic signs about these Nigerian schoolgirls? Get a fucking life. Either do something useful or STFU.

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  20. wreck1080 (3,919 comments) says:

    @dave: Agree with you.

    Nigeria is a rats nest of corruption as is a whole bunch of other african nations.

    Plenty of worse things occur in Africa -millions die, yet more fuss seems to be made about a hundred kidnapped girls.

    Why is the smaller tragedy lamented more than the greater?

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  21. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    I suspect that if he is kingmaker then Winston will go with National, as he should know that he will likely have more power in a Nat/NZF coalition than in a Mana/Green/Labour one.

    But his tactics are odd. With Labour largely on the backfoot, he could enlarge his potential vote by attacking Labour.

    Then again, who the hell knows what goes on in his head.

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  22. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    I wonder what he has on judith?
    is that why she was shaking last weekend?
    Perhaps she wont come back from her break

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  23. Ed Snack (1,874 comments) says:

    Dave, that’s the whole point ! They show that they *care*, and on *social media*. Is that what really matters ? Modern leftism is at its core “an ideology of talking not doing”. It is the fake sympathy, the “I feel your pain”, the “we care about the poor”, these are the signals that they use to broadcast their sense of moral superiority. No matter that their core programs are designed to keep the poor down and their crony rich backers rich, it si the posturing and preening that matters; words before deeds.

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  24. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    Dave Mann- What? You don’t think Orlando Bloom holding up a sign and pouting on You Tube is going to help??

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  25. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Does anybody else here cringe when they see all these bleating, sad looking celebrities and world leaders blubbing to camera with their pathetic signs about these Nigerian schoolgirls?”

    Nope. Good on them. This is a hideous evil and it should receive attention.

    The sooner Boko Haram is a bloodstain in the dirt the better.

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  26. minus (197 comments) says:

    Note the similarity between Winston and Penny Bright
    Both have megamaniacal delusions that they are the saviours of the world.

    Obsessive targets: Winebox to Judith Collins for one, John Banks and John Key for the other.
    Both are magpies, Penny shitting in kiwiblog because no one reads the three or four blogs she has herself, and Winston shitting in National’s nest at the moment because it meets his present need.
    Visiting Dotcom to see if he has any ammo against John Key, Winston even kraps on his own constituents, some of whom may have German flags in their own basements, but because they took them with their own hands

    Winston First, Penny still a bit behind. Both with self fixations that may be just a little unwell.

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  27. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    wreck1080, You are right. Western media are very selective about what they report on from the African continent. The reality is shocking and appalling. The level of pointless casual violence can not be comprehended. I am not just talking about the horrors of those fighting for a “cause”, but the brutality that has no point beyond the fact they simply can, so they do.

    I remember reading a report of a bus that was robbed. The passengers were poor and had little. The robbers made the people who had nothing to steal lay down on the road in a long line. Then drove the bus over their heads. The article had pictures. It was worse than it sounds ! Not reported. Hundred of White Farmers brutally murdered and tortured in SA. Not reported. Villages rounded up in nets and hacked to death, to save bullets, small article buried in the news.

    There is no way the lefty media wants you to know the truth. It is racist.

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  28. tom hunter (4,863 comments) says:

    Does anybody else here cringe when they see all these bleating, sad looking celebrities and world leaders blubbing to camera with their pathetic signs about these Nigerian schoolgirls?

    I loved the article on that subject by Mark Steyn, which shows a picture of a sad Michelle Obama holding a hand-written sign in the Whitehouse that reads #BringBackOurGirls. As Steyn says in #BringBackOurBalls:

    It is hard not to have total contempt for a political culture that thinks the picture at right is a useful contribution to rescuing 276 schoolgirls kidnapped by jihadist savages in Nigeria. Yet some pajama boy at the White House evidently felt getting the First Lady to pose with this week’s Hashtag of Western Impotence would reflect well upon the Administration. The horrible thing is they may be right: Michelle showed she cared – on social media! – and that’s all that matters, isn’t it?

    But it is even more strange and useless than that when you consider that it’s a photo of a sign of an Internet symbol:

    There’s something slightly weird about taking a hashtag – which on the Internet at least has a functional purpose – and getting a big black felt marker and writing it on a piece of cardboard and holding it up, as if somehow the comforting props of social media can be extended beyond the computer and out into the real world. Maybe the talismanic hashtag never required a computer in the first place.

    There seem to be a lot of talismans popping up nowadays.

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  29. Dave Mann (1,222 comments) says:

    @ShawnLH: how exactly is bleating like a pathetic wimp going to turn Boko Haram into a bloodstain in the dirt? I am amazed that I haven’t seen Bono with his stupid sunglasses holding up a #sign yet!!

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  30. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    A bold claim by winston? lets all believe him.

    Hes the winston who cried wolf. he has nothing. hes just a silly old drunk.

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  31. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    dime: Is this going to be the second edition of Winebox?

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  32. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    I am amazed that I haven’t seen Bono with his stupid sunglasses holding up a #sign yet!!

    Like that other arrogant self righteous Irish prick Geldoff, who managed to raise a small fortune in “aid” that ended up in the hands of corrupt thugs with guns who oppressed the population further. They both should face trial for funding human rights abuses.

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  33. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    Not a Boomtown Rats fan then Kea??

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  34. All_on_Red (1,583 comments) says:

    Not on Mondays Longknives…

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  35. Dave Mann (1,222 comments) says:

    @Tom: thanks for the Steyn link…. made good reading!

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  36. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    According to this other left-wing nutter (and griffin), AGW is responsible for everything on Earth: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/may/09/behind-rise-nigeria-boko-haram-climate-disaster-peak-oil-depletion

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  37. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    This “sane” chap will make Ugly Truth proud: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/10/British-Islamist-Muslims-Should-Humiliate-Christians-to-Make-them-Convert

    A British Islamist leader has outlined how an “Islamic State” should humiliate Christians to encourage them to convert to Islam. Abu Waleed, who follows the hard line Salafi branch of Sunni Islam, quotes from the hadith (Islamic writings outside the Koran) to demonstrate how Christians and Jews should be treated if they do not convert to Islam.

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  38. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    IGM – i was a bit young for the winebox thing. I remember it on the news every night for months but didnt pay attention. i sounds fucking painful though!

    I reckon winston is about 2 years away from mothers telling their kids not to look at him as they walk past.

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  39. minus (197 comments) says:

    The Reserve Bank does its interest review six times a year?
    How often could Parker’s Labour compulsory KiwiSaver adjustment occur ?
    How many times a year can you kick around the security of the entire populations earnings and savings.
    Could Novopay handle it. for one example?
    And how many low income exemptions, employer exclusions and a swing to freelance and contractors would it take to render the scheme useless.
    And will it actually drop the New Zealand interest rates to around 1% which is what the US banking system offers and is the basis of the whole fucking problem anyway?

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  40. burt (8,275 comments) says:

    from Stuff: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10033256/Super-for-rich-has-570m-price-tag

    Yes… lets means test NZ super – and in doing that actually acknowledge that the Labour party “cradle to the grave” policies are unsustainable.

    Remember how it worked … pay higher taxes now and get looked after in retirement. Oh hang on … It’s pay higher taxes now and be denied anything in retirement because you paid higher taxes….

    Socialism … always a failure – but popular with people who want other peoples money.

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  41. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    Manolo

    Thanks, yet STILL no one takes any notice, and indeed such rantings appear to be encouraged….

    Very, very strange.

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  42. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    spot on Burt

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  43. wikiriwhis business (4,016 comments) says:

    READER REPORT:Welfare system undermines families
    KAREN HOLMES Election: Is our welfare system working? Welcome to the poverty trap Child poverty a ‘beat up’ Reform not sole reason for poverty Life experience has taught me that we are all better off if everyone’s basic human needs are met.

    Some people’s needs are greater than others. Babies and small children for example need more than able-bodied adults, as do elderly folk and those with physical or mental disability.

    Also, when a woman becomes a mother she too is either dependent on someone to either support her financially while she cares for her babies and children, or she needs someone to care for her children while she earns money.

    In this way, women in childbearing years are vulnerable within a society that puts profit before people. Motherhood and fatherhood are undervalued and it shows.

    New Zealand has an appalling rate of child abuse and child poverty and while we blame individual parents for this, the truth is that people are striving to feel valuable, and for those most vulnerable, it can feel as if children stand between them and a sense of value and wellbeing.

    Children can feel like a heavy weight and burden when they are in fact our future and vital to our society.

    An unintended consequence of recent welfare reform is the shame and blame attitude toward our most vulnerable, and negative influences on our value base as a society.

    When beneficiaries with preschool children are told that one of their obligations for the receipt of a benefit is to have children in early childhood education for a minimum amount of time a week, this sends a powerful message not only to these beneficiary parents but to our whole society as to how much we value the work a mother does in her own home with her babies and preschoolers.

    It undermines the value of motherhood in our society and the consequences of such radical thinking are potentially harmful to us all. I see mothers who struggle with their very sense of value when they become mothers.

    Mothers need to feel empowered and to have a sense of value in the challenging job they do with their babies and children.

    In addition, mothers and children need the valuable support of fathers and partners. If, as a society, we do not see motherhood as valuable how then can fathers and partners see this as valuable to support or even stick around for? How can they see their own roles as important contributions to the society in which they live either?

    Another thing that I have seen is the financial costs of people’s basic needs not being meet. It is like a false economy. When money has been dramatically pulled away from mental health care, we as a society incur the costs of this financially in other ways. Mental health does not melt away, it merely gets redirected into systems that are not at all set up to deal with mental health needs.

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    For example, many mentally unwell people are now dealt with within our justice system. Prisons are not good alternatives to mental health facilities. How much does this cost us? I imagine it is huge once we factor in the costs of police, courts and prison guards. Rather than improving an individual’s mental health woes I imagine this adds to them.

    We may be spending money but because it is directly to meet actual needs rather than mopping up the mess from unmet needs in the long run this is less money with more benefit to us all.

    Child poverty is another huge societal issue that is accentuated within the current benefit reform system.

    Child wellbeing is a casualty if you happen to have a parent on a benefit who does not meet their obligations. Benefits are halved without any thought on the impact that this may have on the innocent children involved. Sometimes this occurs not because obligations were not meet, but in fact because the very benefit reform system has become geared to expel people from its books automatically.

    The consequence of poverty, especially on young children, can have lifelong impacts on mental and physical health, which then costs the society way beyond the here and now.

    Societies that meet the needs of their people, especially those in vulnerable positions, are stronger societies. Take Scandinavian societies such as Finland; child well-being is at the heart of such societies.

    It may be easy to shine a light on only one aspect of a society such as profit and business interests, and think that these serve us all, yet until the complete picture is focused on, we all suffer in some way.

    We teach our young children in the sand pit to share with others and we see this as a vital value for our social survival, yet currently the whole value base that underlines the benefit reforms denies our most vulnerable their very basic needs, while it promotes a few to have far more than they can ever use.

    We need a system that puts needs as its guiding principle. It is only when we start to look at the broadest sense of a society’s needs and then aim to meet those that we all prosper.

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  44. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    Re the Stuff up on Super. Nearly everyone earning more than $70k pays more tax than they will receive in Super.

    The maximum a single person gets is $421.76 per week, $21,931.52 per year.

    “Married person or partner in a civil union or de facto relationship” gets $319.23 per week, $16,599.96.

    Both those amounts are before tax, so some of that gets paid back as tax. For someone earning $70,000 in other income they will pay back 33% of their Super in tax:

    33% of 21,931.52 is 7,237.40 leaving 14,694.12 in the hand.
    Someone earning 70,000 per year is taxed $14,020 so they would receive $674.12 net benefit.

    Someone earning more than $72,043 plus single person Super should pay more tax than they would receive in Super.

    So “could add up to $570m a year before tax” for most well-off pensioners becomes “still pay more tax than they receive in Super”.

    And National, Labour and Greens say they won’t touch universality of Super, and NZ First will certainly oppose any change. So this seems to be a pointless beat-up.

    http://yournz.org/2014/05/12/super-for-those-earning-over-70k/

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  45. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    So Damien Oconner is saying they a being too cautious about going back into Pike River.
    I bet that blowhard would piss his pants if he had to go in even half the needed distance

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  46. tom hunter (4,863 comments) says:

    Another week of Winston promoting a Green/Labour government. Can someone tell me what his end game is?

    Revenge, pure and simple. He hates Key’s guts, not just for having dismissed him in 2008 as a potential coalition partner, but doing so by saying that he was untrustworthy in the wake of the Owen Glenn shenanigans and the $158,000 campaign finance corruption case.

    Peters has never operated intellectually. It’s all emotion and gut. He was publicly humiliated and he wants his pound of flesh. His dream scenario would be Key gone, in which he’d sign up a coalition deal with National in a heartbeat.

    Having said that, I think Peters will regard Key’s need to ask him for coalition as sufficient revenge, plus a juicy, but inconsequential post; he’ll be able to swallow his anger and since Key is a trader I’ve no doubt he’ll swallow his distaste and come to an agreement with Winston if that’s what’s needed.

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  47. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    Tom
    yeah i agree.
    i think Winston like Jones hate the greens more than Key

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  48. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “how exactly is bleating like a pathetic wimp going to turn Boko Haram into a bloodstain in the dirt?”

    Raising awareness and keeping the issue in the news is a start. I don’t disagree with the Mark Steyn article that Tom posted. There is certainly a lot of shallow “issue of the week” from celebs and polis. That said the kidnapping of children and the threat to sell them to human traffickers is so evil that any help at all is better than nothing.

    As to making Boko Haram a bloodstain in the dirt, I would like to see the West send special forces in to help the Nigerian gov achieve that goal.

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  49. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    ShawnLH , you are not being very culturally sensitive. The Africans have sold their people to Muslim slave traders for centuries. While Europeans (quite recently) decided slavery was wrong, the Africans have carried it on just as they did before the White people came.

    I am surprised this is even news.

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  50. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “A British Islamist leader has outlined how an “Islamic State” should humiliate Christians to encourage them to convert to Islam.”

    The Roman Empire did much worst and it had the opposite effect.

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  51. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “The Africans have sold their people to Muslim slave traders for centuries.”

    So?

    It’s children for goodness sake. Do you know what will happen to those girls if they are sold to human traffickers?

    I’m not surprised you don’t care.

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  52. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    “I’m not surprised you don’t care.”

    shorn, I simply pointed out that slave trading is part of the culture and has been for centuries. I made no comment about my personal view. Calm down !

    “It’s children for goodness sake”

    Yes, they are worth more. Expecially virgins.

    “Do you know what will happen to those girls if they are sold to human traffickers?”

    Too late.

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  53. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Kea, one of your standard attacks on other people on KB is the claim they are minimizing child abuse. Now your not only minimizing but indifferent to the abuse and potential rape of over a hundred children.

    Total hypocrisy.

    Your claimed positions change to suit your argument. Beyond being heartless and hateful, there is no consistency to your views.

    “Yes, they are worth more. Expecially virgins.”

    Wow. You really are deeply sick and in need of professional help.

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  54. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    shorn, how have I minimised child abuse ? What I have said is historical fact and self evident.

    It was you who minimised the child abuse and the subjugation of women, when done by your preferred people of the book. The systemic abuse of children in that community is a world wide problem as widely reported. You responded with name calling and deflected the debate to another group your not so keen on.

    I am not responsible for the actions of Africans and nor do I approve of them. I condemn ALL abuses by ALL groups. Unlike you who invokes special pleading for the (self declared) favourites of god.

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  55. stephieboy (3,109 comments) says:

    This will get our local tea baggers wound up,

    Michael Sam becomes NFL’s first openly gay player.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27360558

    But this will get them positively hysterical as Rand Paul attempts to reach out to Gay and Black Voters ( and presumably Michael Sam too),

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-10/rand-paul-cuts-own-path-wooing-blacks-backing-gay-rights.html

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  56. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    Will this Labour crook be unmasked? http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8843323/tvnz-taurima-report-due-to-be-released

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  57. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “The Africans have sold their people to Muslim slave traders for centuries.”

    true that. and the poor bastards who were sold to muslims back in the day had it far worse than the ones who went to the US. theres a reason there arent black people in the middle east like their are in the US – they werent allowed to breed. most died very young. terrible bastards those muslims.

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  58. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “shorn, how have I minimised child abuse ? ”

    Idiot. You just did by dismissing this issue as “just the way it is.”

    “The systemic abuse of children in that community is a world wide problem as widely reported.”

    And you have never provided any evidence of that claim, because it’s bullshit. A lie you use to promote your irrational hatred.

    “I am not responsible for the actions of Africans and nor do I approve of them.”

    Dismissing the issue and being indifferent makes you as guilty as the kidnappers are.

    And typical for a small minded Jew hater. Whatever the issue you always manage to turn it around and make it about the Jews.

    But at least you will never again be able to use the attack line of accusing others of minimising child abuse, now that you have been exposed as a total hypocrite on that subject.

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  59. publicwatchdog (2,598 comments) says:

    Here you go Kiwibloggers – sink your your baby goldfish gums into this one! ;)

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/billion-dollars-extra-expenditure-no-lolly-scramble-pm-ck-155948

    PM reacts to Peters’ claim that ‘Collins will not survive next week, with what I know’

    “I will personally come into this studio and apologise if Winston Peters is right. He won’t be right. He’s never right,” Mr Key said.

    DESPERATE stuff from the Prime Minister!

    Is he going to recommend to himself to take some stress leave before he sacks himself for not exhibiting the ‘highest ethical standards’ to which he is supposed to hold his Ministers accountable?

    The N.Z Cabinet Manual

    http://cabinetmanual.cabinetoffice.govt.nz/files/manual.pdf

    2.52 A Minister of the Crown, while holding a ministerial warrant, acts in a number of different capacities:

    1.in a ministerial capacity, making decisions, and determining and promoting policy within particular portfolios;

    2.in a political capacity as a member of Parliament, representing a constituency or particular community of interest;

    3.in a personal capacity.

    2.53 In all these roles and at all times, Ministers are expected to act lawfully and to behave in a way that upholds, and is seen to uphold, the highest ethical standards. Ultimately, Ministers are accountable to the Prime Minister for their behaviour..

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright

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  60. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    shorn, errrrrrrrr It was you who played on the relgious aspect of this terrible event. Not me. Just sayin :)

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  61. Lucia Maria (2,428 comments) says:

    A bearded transvestite won the latest Eurovision contest, yet apparently the following was the UK’s favourite act:

    Here’s the story: Poland were the real Eurovision winners, say UK public

    It was a bit too much for me.

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  62. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    dime, yes correct. I believe the Arabs used to castrate the men. The ones sent to Europe and America were a priviledged few.

    They also raided European christian coastal towns. It was said at one time, after one very successful expidition, “you could buy a christian for the price on an onion”.

    Personally I think those greedy Arabs were over charging ;)

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  63. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    I hope it’s put up or shut up time with Peters on Collins.

    Indeed Collins should be gone OR Peters should be gone following the startling revelation to come.

    Why do to I smell mediocrity, innuendo and BS ‘a comin dis way’?

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  64. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    I’d like to ask P.G. about the meaning of “auto” or “self-moderation” the comrades at The sub-Standard put him under in an attempt to stop his participation.

    How does it work? Are the delicate Lynn Prentice or the incompetent Greg Presland, aka Micky Savage, behind it?

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  65. lilman (960 comments) says:

    Kea why don’t you trade one of your kids for one of the Kenyan kids,after all its just culture.

    Have to say your posts this morning have me feeling ill in that someone can have such an attitude of complete irreverence to life in general,even if you value virgin life more important.

    Here is what I would like to see,

    1.all efforts to find these girls stepped up,military if needed.

    2.All Muslim people who support this sort of shit be expelled to their choice of muslim state.

    3.All Muslim schools and universities that don’t denounce this sharia disease closed.

    4.All countries that follow muslim sharia laws be exempt from trade and travel by NZ citizens.

    Bottom line I totally dislike any Muslim that has extreme views,they are an excuse to discriminate against women and basic freedoms.I think that eventually we shall have to fight for our way of life and it will be against Muslim extremist individuals and countries.

    I am certain time will prove me correct, sadly.

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  66. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Hay shorn ! Riddle me this :

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

    Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

    So given your professed beliefs I am confused where your opposition to slavery comes from ? You appear to reject Gods word in doing so.

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  67. stephieboy (3,109 comments) says:

    dime, yes black leaders may of sold their subjects into slavery but were it not for the fact their were plenty of willing Arab and White buyers. Its that old supply and demand thing I believe .
    But sadly still continues where e.g in the Sudan Muslims are apparently still permitted to own them.
    But birdbrain if you look at the Letter to Philemon I think there you’ll find the most telling argument against slavery. Not so the Koran , alas.

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  68. Samuel Smith (276 comments) says:

    It’s good to see the polls have been updated on this blog.

    Q: How long would a National/NZ First/David Seymour coalition last?

    A: As long as Winston Peters wants it to.

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  69. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    stupidboy:

    1. The slave trade was centuries old before the evil YT came.

    2. It was YT who came up with the novel idea slavery might be “wrong”. (ps: it was not really for humanist reasons but economic)

    3. YT’s novel notion slavery was wrong never really caught on among blacks, which is why we are having this talk !

    I really wish you would think before you write stuuuuuupidboy.

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  70. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    I suspect that if he is kingmaker then Winston will go with National, as he should know that he will likely have more power in a Nat/NZF coalition than in a Mana/Green/Labour one.

    I think the answer to that is “no”. The Reserve Bank Act has been a favourite Winston target for decades. Labour now agrees that it must be modified. That gives Winston the opportunity to get what he’s wanted forever by going with Labour.

    Yep. Just looked at NZFs economic policy. It is almost the same as Labour’s. Winnie may well take the votes of exporters who can’t bring themselves to vote for Labour.

    And Labour is starting to mirror Peter’s anti foreigner rhetoric.

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  71. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “horn, errrrrrrrr It was you who played on the relgious aspect of this terrible event. ”

    Show me the post where I did that.

    Liar.

    I am not nor ever have been anti-Muslim, and I did not say anything about Islam in my response to this issue.

    Liar.

    You really do not have a shred of integrity do you? You just make shit up to suit your trolling.

    Liar.

    “I really wish you would think before you write”

    Liar.

    Stephie has his faults but being stupid is not one of them. That’s your dept.

    Liar.

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  72. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    shorn, I did not write the bible, though I should be flattered :)

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

    Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

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  73. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    And once again changing the subject to hide your own shame.

    Pathetic.

    “First, we must recognize that the Bible does not say God supports slavery. In fact, the slavery described in the Old Testament was quite different from the kind of slavery we think of today – in which people are captured and sold as slaves. According to Old Testament law, anyone caught selling another person into slavery was to be executed:

    “He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.” (Exodus 21:16)

    So, obviously, slavery during Old Testament times was not what we commonly recognize as slavery, such as that practiced in the 17th century Americas, when Africans were captured and forcibly brought to work on plantations. Unlike our modern government welfare programs, there was no safety-net for ancient Middle Easterners who could not provide a living for themselves. In ancient Israel, people who could not provide for themselves or their families sold them into slavery so they would not die of starvation or exposure. In this way, a person would receive food and housing in exchange for labor.

    So, although there are rules about slavery in the Bible, those rules exist to protect the slave. Injuring or killing slaves was punishable – up to death of the offending party.1 Hebrews were commanded not to make their slave work on the Sabbath,2 slander a slave,3 have sex with another man’s slave,4 or return an escaped slave.5 A Hebrew was not to enslave his fellow countryman, even if he owed him money, but was to have him work as a hired worker, and he was to be released in 7 years or in the year of jubilee (which occurred every 50 years), whichever came first.6 In fact, the slave owner was encouraged to “pamper his slave”.7

    What the New Testament says about slavery

    Since many of the early Christians were slaves to Romans,8 they were encouraged to become free if possible, but not worry about it if not possible.9 The Roman empire practiced involuntary slavery, so rules were established for Christians who were subject to this slavery or held slaves prior to becoming Christians. The rules established for slaves were similar to those established for other Christians with regard to being subject to governing authorities.10 Slaves were told to be obedient to their master and serve them sincerely, as if serving the Lord Himself.11 Paul instructed slaves to serve with honor, so that Christianity would not be looked down upon.12

    As with slaves, instructions were given to their masters as to how they were to treat their slaves. For example, they were not to be threatened,13 but treated with justice and fairness.14 The text goes on to explain that this was to be done because God is the Master of all people, and does not show partiality on the basis of social status or position.13, 14

    There is an interesting letter in the New Testament (Philemon15-21) that gives some insight into the problems encountered in the early Christian church regarding the issue of slavery. Paul, the author of the letter, is writing from a Roman prison awaiting trial.15 He is writing to Philemon, who runs a local Christian church out of his house16 (since Christianity was highly persecuted at this point in time). Philemon, we find out, is the master of the slave Onesimus, who has escaped but has been converted to Christianity by Paul.18 In the letter, Paul indicates that he is sending Onesimus back to Philemon.19 However, Paul says that he has confidence that Philemon will “do what is proper”17 although Paul wants him to do it by his “own free will”.20 Even so, Paul indicates that Onesimus would be a great aid in helping him spread the gospel.19 Paul ends the letter by saying that he has “confidence in your obedience” and indicates that he knows Philemon “will do even more than what I say.”21 Although Paul did not directly order Philemon to release Onesimus from slavery, it would have been difficult to come away with any other conclusion from his letter.

    God does not distinguish between slaves and freemen

    Contrary to the claims of many skeptics, the New Testament proclaims that all people are equal in the eyes of God – even slaves:

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28) knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free. (Ephesians 6:8)

    And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him. (Ephesians 6:9)

    a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all. (Colossians 3:11)

    Conclusion

    The idea that God or Christianity encourages or approves of slavery is shown to be false. In fact, anybody who was caught selling another person into slavery was to be executed. However, since voluntary slavery was widely practiced during biblical times, the Bible proscribes laws to protect the lives and health of slaves. Paul, the author of many of the New Testament writings, virtually ordered the Christian Philemon to release his Christian slave from his service to “do what is proper”. In addition, numerous verses from the New Testament show that God values slaves as much as any free person and is not partial to anyone’s standing before other people.”

    http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/slavery_bible.html

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  74. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    shorn, a very wordy attempt to obscure the clear words of the bible. I will leave it to readers to decide for themselves what is written.

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  75. lilman (960 comments) says:

    Kea I guess you will be part of this countries future then.You seem to miss my point,I dont care what you think,its what I want that counts,silly little puppett.

    I look forward to it.

    Have a nice day.

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  76. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    Manolo – it’s part of message control. They dislike being challenged on questionable claims or being asked awkward questions.

    It seems that lprent has distanced himself from it this time. Having been apologetic after the last time Greg Presland has been at the forefront this time, allowing felix to engineer a campaign to shut me down. Felix got particularly bitter (relative for him) when an attempted hit job on me last week backfired.

    So now they are insisting on auto-moedration so they can check all my comments before they are posted. Except that Presland has refused to define what I am alllowed to say and what is verboten.

    The latest nonsense was triggered by me first questioning an author for making what I though were bizarre claims, which led me to proving that the author had based her post on something she got wrong.

    Did you read the post, PG? A major difference is between National Party’s exclusive, and secretive fundraising practices, often seemingly arranged privately and without any verifiable rational organisation other than cronyism, and union activities and Labour Party practices that are transparent and open to public scrutiny.

    I tried to find out what Cabinet Clubs are and presented the evidence I’d found in my post.

    Her post had pictures of Key in a photo with other Prime ministers in something widely covered by media, which she claim was an example of a secretive meeting.

    And she showed a photo of a cabinet club meeting which she claimed:

    Here mainstream politics meet private activities, within someone’s home. Woodhouse is set up to speak, with the cosy little dinner table seen in the background; the after-glow of a friendly bit of exclusive networking on a very personal scale.

    She bollocksed me for not reading her post or looking at her link to a slideshow.

    When I pointed out her photo and link showed nothing that looked like a private home she conceded that she had been mistaken, but then the Standard mafia seemed to get into action.

    A lot of it is in http://thestandard.org.nz/the-politics-of-private-dinners/
    And they went beserk here: http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10052014/

    I had thought that Karol was one of the more reasonable authors who researched well, but it looks like she’s been sucked into the Standard machine. Ironic that she has been very critical of my fact checking ability.

    It seems to be about three things mainly – vindictiveness of resident troll felix, gullibility of Presland and about political message control.

    And they hope to attract people disillusioned by the crappiness of politics to vote for them.

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  77. Andrei (2,657 comments) says:

    GD is funny, arguing over banalities as huge events take place in the East and the Godless Evil Empire of the West is blocked by simple people, lead by a mining engineer who has frustrated the schemes of the Mass Murderer Barack Obama who has killed far more people than Stalin ever did but has a Nobel Peace Prize anyway

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  78. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    @P.G.: Thank you for the explanation.
    Their attitude towards you is yet another proof of how intolerant The sub-Standard muppets are.

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  79. tom hunter (4,863 comments) says:

    … the Mass Murderer Barack Obama who has killed far more people than Stalin ever did …

    I have a low, low, low opinion of President Obama, but that is one of the most unhinged things I’ve ever read on KB. It’s right up there with the 9/11 Truthers.

    This whole penis-on-anus thing combined with Great Russia worship has seriously fucked you up.

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  80. Andrei (2,657 comments) says:

    What do you think Drone strikes do Tom Hunter, drop the people milk and cookies?

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  81. emmess (1,428 comments) says:

    Pathetic

    Has the Herald sunk to a new low. Here is their main story

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11253474

    Boo hoo, some poor jihadis can’t attend Mosque.

    I stopped buying the Herald over ten years ago due to it left wing bias. I was waiting for the pay wall to stop reading it online but now I am going to try to stop reading it as much as I can.
    Starting with unpinning it from my browser.

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  82. Fletch (6,395 comments) says:

    Ukrainian police seize a truck carrying 100,000 ballots, already marked ‘yes’ for the eastern city of Donetsk to break away from Ukraine and join Russia.

    Ukrainian military forces stopped and seized a vehicle carrying three armed men transporting guns, ammunition, and an estimated 100,000 ballots for a May 11 referendum already marked “yes” for the eastern city of Donetsk to break away from Ukraine and join Russia, Kyiv Post reports.
    The men — which Ukrainian media have described as “armed terrorists” — were found with ballots in the trunk of their car on the outskirts of the city, a police source told the Ukraine Observer.

    Many cities in eastern Ukraine have been under siege for about a month, including Donetsk, where the city’s main government building and a number of schools have been seized by pro-Russian separatists believed to be backed by Moscow.

    The new reports of fraudulent ballots brings to mind a similar incident in Crimea, the region recently annexed to Russia following a March 16 vote. A senior White House official told Reuters there was “concrete evidence” some of those ballots arrived to Crimean cities pre-marked.

    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/yes-ballots-ukraine-2014-5

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  83. Fletch (6,395 comments) says:

    Iran is parading their new drone, based on the technology of the one Obama let them have they captured. For those who remember, a U.S drone crashed in Iran (but without any seeming damage) back in 2011. The Pentagon put three options in front of Obama including going in and getting it back or destroying it, but Obama wouldn’t do anything, because that would be “an act of war”. So instead he let them keep it.

    I’m sorry, but the man has no clue whatsoever.

    http://mashable.com/2014/05/11/iran-copies-american-spy-drone/

    http://hotair.com/archives/2011/12/13/cheney-why-didnt-obama-just-destroy-the-drone-when-he-had-the-chance/

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  84. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Fletch, the Irainians have a fantastic sense of humour and are fond of making model military hardware to amuse foreign media with :)

    Even more hilarious is you suggesting Obama is against war !

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  85. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    Manolo – it’s sad that there are not many options for open political debate on the left. Public Address and Pundit are ok, but of the rest:

    Standard – message control, debating with authors risks a Siberian solution, and protected resident trolls mass attack
    Daily Blog – silent censorship, comments may or may not get through moderation (for me 50/50 so I don’t bother)
    Dim-Post – has morphed from an intellectual satirical blog to a virtual Green activist but with no identification or disclosure of the author, and practices silent censorship.

    Credit to The Daily Blog for being open about identities of authors and usually about their politics.

    Credit to The Standard for usually doing their moderation in the open (but not for me now). But they don’t have any site disclosure of authors. You can get to know their political connections and most can be linked to parties or unions but most casual readers won’t have any idea.

    In a post by blog trustee and Labour leader staffer Mike Smith a new author did disclose her political connections recently but it’s buried in comments.

    As a member of the Ohariu LEC and campaign team I’m obviously very biased, but Ginny is a fabulous candidate and a wonderful person.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/ginny-andersen-a-rising-star/

    That may explain why Stephanie Rodgers has also taken to targeting me. She was the only person to support a very lame attempt by felix to pin a Godwin accusation on Dunne yesterday.

    They seem to think that because they’re working for their parties, mostly without being up front, that’s what everyone else must be doing. I’m curious about Ohariu (and Epsom and Te Tai Tokerau and other key electorates) but otherwise don’t care what goes on there, it’s got nothing to do with me.

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  86. tom hunter (4,863 comments) says:

    What do you think Drone strikes do Tom Hunter …

    I’m all for them, as you can read in these comments here (with follow-up comments in the same thread), and here, where I defend their use in the context of the Geneva Conventions, not to mention domestic US laws.

    But Obama’s going to need a lot of drones before he starts approaching Stalin, which is why I said that your comparison is unhinged.

    Meanwhile, judging by your recent comments on this forum, where you have uplifted the classic tropes used by the Left to stick it to the US (“… Countries Bombed by the USA since 1980…”), and your past supportive comments of George W and the US during the peak of the Iraq War, I will simply repeat the question I asked you on April 10, 2014:

    How many of those actions did you support Andrei, back in the days when communists still ruled the USSR and you were still a citizen of the West – the days before Gay Marriage in other words?

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  87. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    PG, I want to back you up on this but you are the slimy little prick who runs to DPF, texting and messaging him, to have the sweet and mild Kea banned because he does not support your attacks on men. So basically you are full of shit.

    And who could forget this self righteous melt down LOL :)

    http://yournz.org/2013/11/09/kea-on-kiwiblog-rape-culture-and-abuse/

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  88. stephieboy (3,109 comments) says:

    mollyhawk, the issue of slavery and the Bible is a lot more complex than your bird sized brain could ever fathom.Furthermore the treatment of slaves under Judaism appears even more favourable than in the US pre civil war.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/slavery.html

    But the point that escapes you is that slavery as an institution operated in practically all societies in the Ancient world. ( including under Islam that continues to this day in some like the Sudan ) )It was only really the emergence of the Industrial Revolution and mechanization that made the institution redundant along with the humanitarian endeavors of Christians like William Wilberforce.

    The existence of slavery always troubled the Christian Church on account to the admonition in both the Gospels and especially the Apostle Paul’s Letters to both the Galatians and his letter to Philemon .. It raised the question as to how Christians were to treat their slaves many of whom were greatly attracted to it and became converts.

    “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

    Galatians 3:28

    and in Philomen v 8 -11 ,

    HE ASKs PHILEMON TO WELCOME BACK ONESIMUS, a slave, AS A CHRISTIAN BROTHER. he is much more than a slave but a brother in Christ.

    As we can see it was a revolutionary concept that along with Women’s rights did eventually bore fruit .Christians were at the very least asked to rethink careful how they treated their ‘s
    Unfortunately, as mentioned , the Sudan today illustrates not under your Islam, alas yet again. But it can’t be helped you choose to simplistically and cynically misrepresent the full facts and picture.

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  89. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    Talking about Ohariu, Mike Williams made nonsense claims in his Herald column yesterday:

    The gambling website “iPredict” favours a Labour win in Ohariu and should the Green Party neglect to field a candidate, the outcome could see Peter Dunne collecting his gold-plated parliamentary superannuation in October.

    He’s either very poorly informed or he’s trying to deliberately mislead.

    Greens announced a candidate for Ohariu last year:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9450374/Today-in-politics-Thursday-November-28

    And iPredict hasn’t had a UF win below 75% in the last month apart from, coincidentally (?), a one off dive yesterday, and Labour has been below 20% apart from a sudden surge yesterday.

    Williams is still way off the mark.

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  90. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “dime, yes correct. I believe the Arabs used to castrate the men. The ones sent to Europe and America were a priviledged few.”

    they would do it when the kid was about 10-12. apparently arabs had huge issues with black guys dicks – i guess they were bigger..

    the survival rate was anywhere from 1 in 10 to 1 in 25. just brutal.

    just getting to their arab shit hole wiped most of em out. being marched across a desert.

    the chicks you could buy for the price of an onion must have been dog ugly!

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  91. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    @Kea

    PG, I want to back you up on this but you are the slimy little prick who runs to DPF, texting and messaging him, to have the sweet and mild Kea banned because he does not support your attacks on men. So basically you are full of shit.

    Funny. And ironic.

    I’ve never communicated with DPF by text or phone in any way. I emailed him once reporting an extreme comment you made. You’d have been banned anyway because others also advised DPF. You ignored good advice. You’ve brought that and other bans on yourself. Accusing me of meltdowns is sadly funny.

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  92. cha (4,032 comments) says:

    But Obama’s going to need a lot of drones before he starts approaching Stalin, which is why I said that your comparison is unhinged.

    Putin and Greenwald – left meets right creating a confluence of idiocy.

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  93. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    dime, and notice how few black brothers there are in the Arab world, even after all those years of dealing with black slaves ? Compare that to the evil YT’s in America.

    stupidboy, the issue of slavery in the bible is not complex. The words are clear.

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

    Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

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  94. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    “Accusing me of meltdowns is sadly funny.”

    http://yournz.org/2013/11/09/kea-on-kiwiblog-rape-culture-and-abuse/

    Who’s sad ? :) :) :)

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  95. stephieboy (3,109 comments) says:

    Andrei, you’d be incredibly naive to think e.g Russia is not using and deploying Drone Technology as this deal with an Israeli manufacturer underlines ,

    http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/israel-and-russia-in-uav-deal-05459/

    And only the willfully ignorant or lying would say the US is using them in the Yemen and Pakistan to willfully and intentionally murder civilians.

    Maybe you’d might like to reconcile this apparent troubling deal with Putin’s arm dealing and supplying it’s ally Syria. ?

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  96. Fletch (6,395 comments) says:

    According to an article on Clash Daily, Islam brought slavery to the West.

    But one of the most egregiously utilized falsehoods for manipulators’ fodder is Slavery and its origins in the West…

    To the chagrin of Islamists and their little Leftist helper monkeys: Slavery was brought to the West by Islam.

    Offensive statement? No, just a TRUE statement…

    The origins of Islamic slavery have been written about by such scholars as Dr. Peter Hammond, Shelby Steele and Tidiane N’Diaye…all revealing the TRUE history and origins of the slave trade….and it wasn’t Trans-Atlantic but rather Trans-Saharan and East African.
    According to Peter Hammond, in his book, Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat, he notes the following:

    – Trans Atlantic slave trade to the Americas lasted for just over three centuries, but the Arab involvement in the slave trade has lasted fourteen centuries, and in some parts of the Muslim world is still continuing to this day.
    – The mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, but the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Trans Sahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%.
    – Almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work, but most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military service.
    – Many children were born to slaves in the Americas, and millions of their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the USA to this day, but very few descendants of the slaves that ended up in the Middle East survived.

    Tidiane N’Diaye, author of “The Veiled Genocide,” further confirms that there were few descendants of African slaves in the Middle East, because those who arrived via the Trans-Saharan transport into the Arab marketplace, were castrated. Only 1-5 survived this dangerous operation. All had to undergo this procedure if they were to work on the Arab plantations, as household servants or as guards of the harem. The Arabs were racists and despised the blacks, which is why they didn’t allow black slaves to have children in their countries.

    http://clashdaily.com/2014/05/stop-blaming-america-islam-brought-slavery-west/

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  97. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    PG,

    You’d have been banned anyway because others also advised DPF The Standard. You ignored good advice. You’ve brought that and other bans on yourself.

    DOH !!! :)

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  98. stephieboy (3,109 comments) says:

    mollyhawk, your bombast and meltdowns cause you to completely avoid most of the issues i raised including ,naturally, its continued persistence under Islam,as your friends in Darfur and Northern Nigeria , perfectly demonstrate.!

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  99. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    dime, of course anti black sentiment is common in the region. The appalling predjudice suffered by blacks in Israel – today – is well reported and highlighted in numerous reports. You may be surprised to learn there are black Jews, but they are treated like shit as well. But please, DO NOT take my word for it. Do a quick google search and see for yourself. :)

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  100. stephieboy (3,109 comments) says:

    Sorry Fletch I’d have to say that is not entirely correct re Slavery as its an ancient institution. As I’ve shown it existed and flourished under the Roman Empire as mostly elsewhere. But its existence imposed a big dilemma on the fledging early church given e.g Pauls’s letter to the Galatians and Philemon .
    In effect it made the idea of slavery inconceivable . But , as I said earlier, for the Arab Slave trade to thrive it needed willing European buyers and there were no shortage of them. Thus you can’t hang it all on Islam or the Arab Slave traders in the context you provide.

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  101. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    SOURCE: Times of Israel

    Israel guilty of ‘bleak’ and ‘severe’ human rights abuses, local NGO asserts

    Civil rights group’s report decries situation in the West Bank, among the Bedouin, and relating to African migrants in Tel Aviv

    Israel is guilty of “particularly severe” human rights violations, both in the Palestinian territories and Israel proper, according to a scathing new report by one of the country’s premier rights organizations.

    According to the 2012 report of the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, the situation in Israel is “bleak” in almost every category of human rights, particularly housing

    “The prevalent attitude toward African asylum seekers in Israel in 2012 was one of racism and xenophobia,” the report asserts. “Over the course of the year, Israeli citizens burned, beat, cursed and looted on a scale and in a manner never seen before. Molotov cocktails were thrown at the homes of asylum seekers and at a kindergarten in the Shapira neighborhood of Tel Aviv.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-guilty-of-bleak-and-severe-human-rights-abuses-report-asserts/

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  102. stephieboy (3,109 comments) says:

    mollyhawk, Blacks in Israel.? Treated appallingly .? In other Islamic countries as well ,?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_Arab_world

    He is without sin cast the first stone…

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  103. Fletch (6,395 comments) says:

    stephie, the thing is, what we call slavery is not the same as what was practiced in the ancient world.

    The “slavery” in the ANE (Ancient Near East) is not the same as the kind of slavery as in the Americas.
    In the ANE, people even used to sell themselves into slavery to pay off a debt, or parents used to sell their children into slavery – this was the most common. And it was not the slavery with chains and being locked up; it was more akin to being a servant and living in the same house as the master.

    “Scholars do not agree on a definition of “slavery.” The term has been used at various times for a wide range of institutions, including plantation slavery, forced labor, the drudgery of factories and sweatshops, child labor, semivoluntary prostitution, bride-price marriage, child adoption for payment, and paid-for surrogate motherhood. Somewhere within this range, the literal meaning of “slavery” shifts into metaphorical meaning, but it is not entirely clear at what point. A similar problem arises when we look at other cultures. The reason is that the term “Slavery” is evocative rather than analytical, calling to mind a loose bundle of diagnostic features. These features are mainly derived from the most recent direct Western experience with slavery, that of the southern United States, the Caribbean, and Latin America. The present Western image of slavery has been haphazardly constructed out of the representations of that experience in nineteenth-century abolitionist literature, and later novels, textbooks, and films…From a global cross-cultural and historical perspective, however, New World slavery was a unique conjunction of features…In brief, most varieties of slavery did not exhibit the three elements that were dominant in the New World: slaves as property and commodities; their use exclusively as labor; and their lack of freedom…” [NS:ECA:4:1190f]

    See http://christianthinktank.com/qnoslave.html if you want to know more.
    And also http://christianthinktank.com/qnoslavent.html

    As far as the Bible, from what I understand, only theives and enemies could be made slaves, and the slaves must be treated well.

    Thus theives and enemies of the Jews could be made slaves,(cf. Ex 22:2; 2 Chr 28:8-15) but a Jew who arbitrarily took a slave would be punished by death.(Ex 21: 16)

    Nevertheless, we in our slavery to sin cannot imagine there being so harsh a punishment as the loss of freedom and forced labor over the course of years. This is why life in many of our prisons in the western world has become so comfortable -indeed luxurious- in comparison with the life our poor and middle classes live. A criminal can obtain university degrees, watch television, get good meals, have water and plumbing looked after, and enjoy other comforts without having to pay a thing. Not long ago, it was the norm that a criminal was truly and justly deprived of his freedom, of his family, of comforts, and forced into unpaid labor for years. That is to say, a vile criminal was made to be a slave to society. Our justice system, then, as far as it remains, is seen to support and insist upon this slavery, and quite rightly so from the point of view of real justice. For this reason, Scripture is seen to operate within justice, in making real criminals slaves.

    The Law of the Jews, as the laws of our prisons, afforded the slave certain rights and corresponding protections. The master of a slave would, according to the Law, be punished for killing him (the manner and degree of which is unspecified in written tradition).(Ex 21:20) If a master caused a woman slave to miscarry, there would be a fine determined by the woman’s husband, and “If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”(Ex 21: 22-23) Slaves would rest on the sabbath day (Ex 20: 8-11) and be restored to freedom after six years of servitude (except for non-Jews, which shall be discussed later). In these things, then, the Jewish Law on slavery is quite comparable to the slavery with which criminals in our society have been and still are frequently punished.

    As the quote points out, don’t we make slaves of modern day criminals? Yes, we have cozy prisons now, but it wasn’t so long ago that prisoners were forced to make licence plates or crack rocks. That really isn’t much different. Holding a criminal against their will and making them work is basically the ‘slavery’ of the OT.

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  104. stephieboy (3,109 comments) says:

    Racism the Arab’s dirty little secret,

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10iht-edeltahawy.1.18556273.html?_r=0

    Disturbing indeed.!

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  105. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    “stephie, the thing is, what we call slavery is not the same as what was practiced in the ancient world.”

    Yeah along with the rape, murder and torture in the bible. FFS listen to you people !

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  106. cha (4,032 comments) says:

    Islam brought slavery to the West.

    And 0800 – labour supplied the workers who built the Appian Way, Coliseum, Pont du Gard and Notre Dame.
    //

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  107. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    stephieboy (1,370 comments) says:

    May 12th, 2014 at 12:45 pm

    Racism the Arab’s Jews dirty little secret,

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-guilty-of-bleak-and-severe-human-rights-abuses-report-asserts/

    Disturbing indeed.!

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  108. publicwatchdog (2,598 comments) says:

    Seen this Kiwibloggers?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11253498

    Key promises public apology if Peters is right

    10:24 AM Monday May 12, 2014

    Prime Minister John Key will make a public apology if new information about Justice Minister Judith Collins emerges and forces her out of the job this week.

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Is PM John Key now practicing swallowing dead rats the size of elephants?

    We shall see ……….

    Kind regards

    Penny Bright

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  109. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    kea squawking crap

    how unusual.

    :lol:

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  110. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    A British Islamist leader has outlined how an “Islamic State” should humiliate Christians to encourage them to convert to Islam. Abu Waleed, who follows the hard line Salafi branch of Sunni Islam, quotes from the hadith (Islamic writings outside the Koran) to demonstrate how Christians and Jews should be treated if they do not convert to Islam.

    Salafism is not typical of Muslim belief and is favoured by corrupt states like Saudi Arabia.
    The main problem with Salafism is the overemphasis on the Hadith, since the Quran itself does not give Mohammad any special status as a prophet.

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  111. cha (4,032 comments) says:

    Peter Hammond, in his book, Slavery, Terrorism and Islam

    Oh look, Fletch cites a gun running sniper and defender of apartheid who got his jollies driving around shooting kids with a paint gun.

    http://allafrica.com/stories/199909230152.html

    http://mg.co.za/article/2005-12-01-evangelist-charged-after-counterhalloween-incident

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  112. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Al Qaeda tries, fails to kidnap 2 U.S. Embassy staff in Yemen.

    “Two al Qaeda gunmen tried to kidnap two U.S. Embassy employees in Yemen last month but were shot and killed by one of the Americans, a Yemeni government official told CNN on Saturday.
    The attempted kidnapping was carried out by two armed men with al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) on April 24, and the fatal shooting occurred near a Yemeni barbershop “where many foreigners and diplomats go to get their hair cut,” the Yemeni official said.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/10/world/meast/yemen-qaeda-kidnapping-attempt-us-embassy/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

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  113. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “kea squawking crap”

    Nothing new. At least he’s not making excuses for child slavery and rape.

    Oh, wait a minute……….

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  114. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    shorn, how terrible.

    Mossad Kidnaps Gaza Engineer

    Disappeared on a Ukraine train: Mossad snatches Gaza’s power plant boss

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/mossad-kidnaps-gaza-engineer/23877

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  115. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    At least he’s not making excuses for child slavery and rape.

    You mean like this ?

    Ultra-Orthodox Shun Their Own for Reporting Child Sexual Abuse

    The first shock came when Mordechai Jungreis learned that his mentally disabled teenage son was being molested in a Jewish ritual bathhouse in Brooklyn. The second came after Mr. Jungreis complained, and the man accused of the abuse was arrested.

    Keeping to Themselves

    The New York City area is home to an estimated 250,000 ultra-Orthodox Jews — the largest such community outside of Israel, and one that is growing rapidly because of its high birthrate. The community is concentrated in Brooklyn, where many of the ultra-Orthodox are Hasidim, followers of a fervent spiritual movement that began in 18th-century Europe and applies Jewish law to every aspect of life.

    Their communities, headed by dynastic leaders called rebbes, strive to preserve their centuries-old customs by resisting the contaminating influences of the outside world. While some ultra-Orthodox rabbis now argue that a child molester should be reported to the police, others strictly adhere to an ancient prohibition against mesirah, the turning in of a Jew to non-Jewish authorities, and consider publicly airing allegations against fellow Jews to be chillul Hashem, a desecration of God’s name.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/10/nyregion/ultra-orthodox-jews-shun-their-own-for-reporting-child-sexual-abuse.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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  116. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Kea and Ugly desperately trying to excuse militant Islamists and trying to outdo each other in who can Sieg Heil the loudest. :)

    “NO, NO, DON’T LOOK AT THE ISLAMIC TERRORISTS, IT’S THE EVIL JEEEEEWWS!!!”

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  117. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    http://www.punchng.com/news/boko-haram-was-sponsored-to-smear-islam-jingir/

    May 12, 2014 by Jude Owuamanam and Friday Olokor

    The National Chairman of the Izalla sect, otherwise known as Jama’atul Izalatul Sunnah, Sheik Sani Yahaya Jingir, has dissociated the sect from the activities of the dreaded Islamic sect, Boko Haram, saying that the sect was being sponsored to smear the Islamic religion.

    http://news.naij.com/62230.html
    19 March, 2014

    An incriminating phone call made on Tuesday has revealed that Turkish Airlines allegedly shipped weapons to unknown groups in Nigeria.

    In a tape posted on YouTube, Mehmet Karatas, an assistant executive of the airline, allegedly tells Mustafa Varank, an advisor to Erdogan, that he feels guilty over national flag carrier’s arms shipment to Nigeria.

    “I do not know whether these (weapons) will kill Muslims or Christians. I feel sinful,” Karatas is allegedly heard saying.

    However, the Turkey’s national carrier had denied the allegations.

    “Turkish Airlines, in accordance with company policy, does not ship arms to countries where there is a power vacuum or conflict,” the airline said in a statement sent to the media.

    “There have been no arms shipments from Turkey to (Nigeria),” it added.

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  118. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Haha, the real “Wolf of Wall Street” is currently “in Australia to lecture real estate agents on the importance of business ethics.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/10035507/Wall-of-Wolf-St-Jordan-Belfort-storms-from-interview

    Perhaps next he should give the lecture to MSM “journalists”

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  119. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kea (11,431 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    My grandfather, the wisest man I’ve ever known used to tell me this :-

    If you believe in every comment you make, and stand by it, then own it – and own the criticism of it. Reply by proffering your opinion but to reply by attacking the messenger instead demonstrates a weakness of conviction.

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  120. cha (4,032 comments) says:

    Gone.

    Prime Minister John Key will make a public apology if new information about Justice Minister Judith Collins emerges and forces her out of the job this week.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11253498

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  121. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Judith, WTF you bloody hypocrite !!! I post facts and get attacked daily. Get your head together woman. Your comment is nothing more than a personal attack in its self. If I have made factual errors then point them out to me and I WILL retract them.

    -My grandfather, the wisest man I’ve ever known used to tell me this :-

    You know what happens when cowards group together ? You get more cowardice.

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  122. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, you accused me of excusing Islamic terrorists. Show me where I did that so I can retract my statement.

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  123. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kea (11,433 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 1:25 pm

    I think you took that the wrong way, it was more a comment about the criticism you get thrown at you. Never mind.

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  124. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (2,401 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    Al Qaeda tries, fails to kidnap 2 U.S. Embassy staff in Yemen.

    Apparently the CIA agent and the Special Forces operative had just popped out for a haircut, by themselves. Despite, as Eric Schmitt observes,

    “In high-risk countries like Yemen and Pakistan, American diplomatic personnel are often tightly restricted in where and when they can travel outside the embassy walls, and are typically accompanied by armed security personnel.”

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  125. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Cha: “Gone”
    Nah, Winston will only go if he’s dragged out feet first.

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  126. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    If I have made factual errors then point them out to me and I WILL retract them.

    Couched quietly amidst a tirade of unnecessary and unwarranted insults.

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  127. wikiriwhis business (4,016 comments) says:

    Super for rich has $570m price tag

    Lets villify the wealthy for once they deserve it

    Tax Bill tax evasion also.

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  128. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Judith I have just looked back up the tread to see why you would address that comment to me. I am forced to conclude you are lower than slug shit.

    Ryan, same for you. Or is your browser not showing shorns and stupidboys comments ?

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  129. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ cha (3,583 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 1:25 pm

    A bit like the show down at the OK Corral – between what appears to be the two strongest personalities in this years ‘battle’.

    I’ve got no problem seeing the back end of Collins but I do want the fight to be a fair one. I don’t believe she is good for Key, or New Zealand.

    If Winston has the proof, lets see it – cards on the table time – (or will they wait for budget day – and attempt to overshadow it?)

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  130. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Kea I have seen you quote crap and double down on the dishonesty when called on it soooo often I just take it as normal for you.

    Still hanging in the ihc van dribbling on the windows wingnut?

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  131. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    grief, sorry if I misled you and left you thinking I wrote the bible, human history and write for the Times of Israel along with working for an Israeli human rights group. My bad.

    I am sorry [again] but I missed your comment on the topic. Can you kindly direct me to it ?

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  132. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kea (11,435 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    Whatever Kea – you don’t come across as someone that even tries see any alternative messages, you just like to dive in, boots and all, only seeing the negative – and then you fire away without engaging your brain… slug shit aye? I don’t dwell low enough to notice what that is like, so I’ll take your word for it.

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  133. wikiriwhis business (4,016 comments) says:

    “What do you think Drone strikes do Tom Hunter, drop the people milk and cookies?”

    Exactly. The US never has money for milk and cookies but armaments are literally thrown at countries.

    On top of that the US industrial military complex wants more!

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  134. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Two comments from you today griff, both demonstrating your usual erudite wit.

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  135. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Talking shit is your mainstay wingnut

    The sooner you get a terminal ban the better for KB.

    You fail to add anything but gross stupidity.

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  136. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Ryan, same for you. Or is your browser not showing shorns and stupidboys comments ?

    I’m referring to your hours of accusing me the other day of believing in God, not answering your questions, and asserting that “Jews are filthy liars”. And when called on to back up your assertions, your apology was along the lines of “you’re all fuckwits and I get fuckwits mixed up sometimes“.

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  137. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Judith, NO DON’T take my “word for it”. ctrl F, Kea. Then ShawnLH…. Then explain why you directed that comment to me ?

    Until then:

    I apologise for my comments re slugs. To the Slugs I may have offended.

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  138. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Ryan, OH so it was residual butt-hurt you were referring to. I thought we cleared that up. Time to move on.

    [and asserting that “Jews are filthy liars”.]

    Show where I said that ? I asked if that was YOUR position after YOU called into question something I posted written and taught by JEWS. So you simply lied, okay I see how this works. My turn.

    The other day you said child sex is an accepted part of ultra orthodox culture and can not be condemned in the same way as Muslims doing it, as it does not harm the kids. My question is; Do you think our laws unfairly target orthodox Jews as a result ?

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  139. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    griff, you must take your meds. You might think you’re doing fine without them but I can see at 1:40 that you’ve started talking to yourself again.

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  140. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    The difference between Pete George and everyone else here is that he has political ambitions, and we have ambitions to be ornery arseholes.

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  141. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Show where I said that ? I asked if that was YOUR position after YOU called into question something I posted written and taught by JEWS.

    You asked me my position, and I repeatedly (well, twice) agreed with you that, in the story, Jewish people were responsible for Jesus’ death. You continued to claim that I was saying otherwise. I never disagreed on this point with the Jewish writings you were citing, and yet you accused me of saying that they were lying or incorrect.

    That is what I was challenging you to back up. A fact that would have been obvious if you’d just taken a breath and read what I’d actually said.

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  142. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    What are my ambitions Tom?

    And how do you know what the ambitions are of “everyone else here”?

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  143. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “ShawnLH, you accused me of excusing Islamic terrorists. Show me where I did that so I can retract my statement.”

    Boko Haram are an Islamist terrorist group. You made excuses for the kidnapping of over a hundred children who will likely be sold into slavery, claiming that it’s just the way things are and we should not be concerned. Which, to put it bluntly, is seriously sick.

    Also, whenever the subject Islamist terrorism comes up you dredge something about the Jews.

    In fact, the issue of religion would not even have come up today if you had not brought it up and decided to make a debate about the kidnapping another excuse for your tiresome rants about Jews.

    And before you trot on your “I’m just opposed to oppressing any group” lie, Islamists and mainstream Islam are not the same thing

    I have no issue with Islam in general or peaceful Muslims.

    “The other day you said child sex is an accepted part of ultra orthodox culture and can not be condemned in the same way as Muslims doing it, as it does not harm the kids.”

    I seriously doubt Ryan said anything like that.

    And I’m still waiting for a shred of evidence for your claim that child abuse is endemic amongst Jews as a whole.

    Liar.

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  144. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    What are my ambitions Tom?

    To secure the hand of Peter Dunne in a gay marriage? :)

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  145. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    To post centrist drivel that is the political equivalent of dried tofu?

    To annoy the owners of every single blog in the NZ blogosphere?

    #petegeorgeambitions

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  146. Samuel Smith (276 comments) says:

    Looks like Collins could be gone by tea time.

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  147. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “ShawnLH, you accused me of excusing Islamic terrorists. Show me where I did that so I can retract my statement.”

    Boko Haram are an Islamist terrorist group. You made excuses for the kidnapping of over a hundred children who will likely be sold into slavery, claiming that it’s just the way things are and we should not be concerned. Which, to put it bluntly, is seriously sick.

    As usual, ShawnLH is unable to quote what Kea actaully said, but continues with more slander. Kea did not say that “we should not be concerned”.

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  148. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Looks like Collins could be gone by tea time.

    Don’t leave us hanging, Samuel, what’s the scoop?

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  149. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull , I explained that I had mistakenly attributed views to you that had not been expressed. I simply became confused by the mass attack of fundamentally religious. I have plently of real targets without having a go at the innocent.

    ShawnLH, I simply pointed out that slavery has been part of Muslim African relations for centuries. I did not, and do not, excuse it on that or any other grounds. I am still waiting for your link to where I indicated otherwise ????

    “I seriously doubt Ryan said anything like that.”

    Or course Ryan did not say that ! Nor did I say the things he accused me of.

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  150. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    It’s just as well you can say that from a position of being so popular with “everyone else” Tom.

    But you’re wrong. It only seems to be left leaning blogs that get particularly tetchy about their messages being questioned, and proven wrong. That’s if you can get through their censorship.

    It’s not a great advertisement for their politics.

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  151. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Don’t leave us hanging, Samuel, what’s the scoop?

    Probably misdirection. Can’t find anything on Twitter.

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  152. Samuel Smith (276 comments) says:

    Winston Peters holding a media conference at 4pm.

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  153. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    It’s just as well you can say that from a position of being so popular with “everyone else” Tom.

    Hardly. I pride myself on getting more downticks than anyone else. My only fear is that Len Brown starts posting here.

    Anyway, I’m calling shenanigans on that. You annoy people, so they ban you. It’s go nothing to do with the content of your posts, but because you piss them off. Trolls everywhere marvel at your ability to get banned. ;-)

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  154. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Winston Peters holding a media conference at 4pm.

    Cheers for the info.

    Might be about KiwiRail, though.

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  155. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Looks like Collins could be gone by tea time.”

    I have always liked Judith Collins, but both her and Williamson have become liabilities that National cannot afford.

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  156. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull , I explained that I had mistakenly attributed views to you that had not been expressed.

    Yes, you did, amidst further unwarranted insults, which is all I was saying at 1.28 today.

    Or course Ryan did not say that ! Nor did I say the things he accused me of.

    You said it right here.

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  157. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    Hilarious:

    @GCSBIntercepts

    “It looks like Winston is still after Judith and we’re running out of things to lop off the ferries to distract him.”

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  158. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    I have always liked Judith Collins, but both her and Williamson have become liabilities that National cannot afford.

    With Collins, they are fucked either way.

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  159. Samuel Smith (276 comments) says:

    Why is Peters’ interested in KiwiRail?

    Doesn’t the Crown already own it after Cullen purchased it back?

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  160. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Anyway, I’m calling shenanigans on that. You annoy people, so they ban you. It’s go nothing to do with the content of your posts, but because you piss them off.”

    I don’t always agree with Pete but he has never said anything here that would get him banned on any reasonably run and fair blog.

    If he is banned at the Stranded that is because it is run by a bunch of Stalinists who despise free speech and ban anyone who critiques the Left.

    Give Pete a break. I find the whole centrist position too much like weak tea myself, but Pete is scrupulously fair in his critiques of both sides of the political spectrum.

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  161. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Ryan, Oh I see. You think I wrote the Toledot Jeshu. Was that before or after I wrote the bible ? LOL :)

    Dear oh Dear Ryan, try and keep it together mate !

    And another point. How about we start each day afresh and not conflate all previous slights into an ongoing unresolvable wrong in order to sustain the animosity ? (Or in other words; Get over yourself.)

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  162. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Samuel Smith (274 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 2:13 pm
    Winston Peters holding a media conference at 4pm.

    So we wait with baited breath for news from the the NZ1 camp…

    Rabbit: I’ve got a splendid idea! Now listen: we’ll take Tigger (PM) for a long explore, see, somewhere he’s never been before. And we’ll lose him there!
    Winnie the Pooh: Lose him?
    Rabbit: Oh, we’ll find him again next morning, and mark my words, he’ll be a humble Tigger, a small and sad Tigger, and a “oh, pooh, am I glad to see you” Tigger. And it’ll take the bounces out of him, that’s what! Now, all in favor, say ‘aye’.

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  163. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Why is Peters’ interested in KiwiRail?

    Says the Govt is covering up accidents.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/interislander-problems-covered-up-winston-peters-5969424

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  164. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Kea (11,440 comments) says: “Well they said they did, but SPC and Ryan reckon Jews are filthy liars”
    May 9th, 2014 at 9:13 pm

    Yup, he said that, and it’s a statement not a question.

    “And another point. How about we start each day afresh”

    I’m sure you would find that very convenient. Don’t like being held to account do you.

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  165. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    Trolls everywhere marvel at your ability to get banned…

    …by left wingers with political agendas frustrated as hell that all their abuse isn’t working in the polls.

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  166. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    I don’t always agree with Pete but he has never said anything here that would get him banned on any reasonably run and fair blog.

    It’s cumulative annoyance.

    If he is banned at the Stranded that is because it is run by a bunch of Stalinists who despise free speech and ban anyone who critiques the Left.

    No. I think most of it is that Lynn Prentice is just a bit of a dick.

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  167. Samuel Smith (276 comments) says:

    @Tom Jackson

    Thanks, I thought NZ ferries crashing was old news. It seems to constantly happen.

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  168. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    I think your 2:19 was one of your more insightful comments Samuel Smith:

    Why is Peters’ interested in KiwiRail?

    Doesn’t the Crown already own it after Cullen purchased it back?

    Of course I took it to mean there’s no point Winnie being interested in something he can’t promise to buy back.

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  169. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    …by left wingers with political agendas frustrated as hell that all their abuse isn’t working in the polls.

    Seems to be working this week.

    To be honest, I think it’s because you are clueless.

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  170. Andrei (2,657 comments) says:

    Obama’s fascist goons shoot people to prevent them exercising their democratic right

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  171. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    How you find out about the press conference SS?

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  172. twofish (94 comments) says:

    stuff.co: Ferry incidents ‘covered up’ – Peters

    Bugger – it’s InterIslander ferry, not Peters coming clean on Denis O’Rourke and Stephen James.

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  173. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    ” You think I wrote the Toledot Jeshu.”

    The entire Jewish population did not write it, but that does not stop you from using “the Jews” like most Jew haters tend to.

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  174. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Ryan, Oh I see. You think I wrote the Toledot Jeshu. Was that before or after I wrote the bible ? LOL :)

    Read a bit more carefully, Kea. I never said that the Toledot Jeshu is incorrect, or that you were incorrect in citing it.

    I said that you were incorrect to say that I disagreed with it (and you) on that point about the story.

    That was when your tirade of insults began.

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  175. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Obama’s fascist goons”

    Their Ukrainians Andrei, not Americans. Get a grip.

    And I seem to remember your preferred Ukrainian leader shooting protesters.

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  176. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Ryan, I can not dumb this down anymore for your benefit. You got unfairly caught in the cross fire of my battle with the zealots. Lay down with dogs…

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  177. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    “The entire Jewish population did not write it…”

    shorn, But the ENTIRE Muslim population wrote the Hadiths, condone suicide bombs, subjugation of women, etc ?

    As we hear every-single-day on KB with not a word of protest or moderation from you.

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  178. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “You got unfairly caught in the cross fire of my battle with the zealots”

    You are a zealot. And bullshit, you use a scatter gun approach all the time.

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  179. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    Labour’s pre-Budget announcement:

    – If elected, unemployment would drop to 4 percent after 3 years.
    – Says to meet this target they need to create 20k new jobs.
    – Cunliffe says Labour govt will stay in surplus – unless there is I’national downturn or domestic disaster.
    – Cunliffe says on projections National will take unemployment to 5 per cent.
    – David Parker says he’s absolutely confident policies are “job rich”
    – Cunliffe says the focus won’t be on creating govt jobs, but on innovation.
    – Denies Labour riding on the improving economy under National and being opportunistic by announcing unemployment target.
    – Cunliffe confirms there is going to be increase in top tax rate – but not saying (yet) what it will be.
    – Also not revealing surplus targets today- but will resume contributions to Cullen fund when books back in black.

    Details: https://www.labour.org.nz/jobs-and-surplus-targets

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  180. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “shorn, But the ENTIRE Muslim population wrote the Hadiths, condone suicide bombs, subjugation of women, etc ?”

    I have never said anything like that.

    “As we hear every-single-day on KB with not a word of protest or moderation from you.”

    That’s because you see only what you want to see. I have in fact critiqued that position. Yesterday I made a post linking to an article saying that not all Muslims groups are violent or do not want peace. The day before that I posted a link about pro-Israeli Muslims. And about a week ago I argued against the claim that militant Islam is a threat in NZ because of the local Muslim population.

    But you tend to put everyone into your tiny little boxes and proceed from there.

    As I said, you lack even the most basic debating skills, and do not bother to take the time to find out what other people actually believe before slagging them off.

    You had me in your “Rapture believing, anti-Asian, pro-White” box yesterday.

    Your a lazy debater, to put it mildly.

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  181. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    “But you tend to put everyone into your tiny little boxes and proceed from there.”

    So you really think I am a Nazi shorn ? :)

    The strongest reactions I get on KB come not from my words but the words of the bible and Jews, cut n’ pasted with supporting links. Very revealing isn’t it ?

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  182. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    I think Kea that anyone who constantly uses phrases like “the Jews” is suspect. You don’t make distinctions, but try to tar all Jews with the issues of a minority.

    So yes, when I hear rhetoric like that my Nazi radar tends to go off.

    Perhaps if you improved your rhetoric and chose your words more carefully then I would not be suspicious about your motivation.

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  183. Andrei (2,657 comments) says:

    And I seem to remember your preferred Ukrainian leader shooting protesters.

    He wasn’t my “prefered” leader Shawn, he was elected and was up for re election in 11 months and could have been replaced via the ballot box in the normal and constitutional manner.

    And if this procedure had been followed then none of this grief would have followed

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  184. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Ryan, I can not dumb this down anymore for your benefit. You got unfairly caught in the cross fire of my battle with the zealots.

    So we’re back to, “I did say what you’re claiming I said, and I was mistaken.” Good to hear.

    Lay down with dogs…

    You keep saying that, like it’s out of the question that you might be able to distinguish between different people addressing you on different points.

    It seems more like the best way to avoid being the subject of a lengthy tirade of insults followed by a perfunctory and half-arsed admission of fault is to never engage with you at all, but what fun would that be?

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  185. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    I think Kea that anyone who constantly uses phrases like “the Jews” is suspect. You don’t make distinctions, but try to tar all Jews with the issues of a minority.

    It’s not a defence, but Kea’s right that many people do the same thing with Muslims.

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  186. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “The strongest reactions I get on KB come not from my words”

    Yes, they are. It’s how you use the links that you post that gets the reaction, and the rhetoric you post along with the links, not the links themselves.

    Your not big on personal responsibility are you?

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  187. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “It’s not a defence, but Kea’s right that many people do the same thing with Muslims.”

    Yes, I know. But Kea seems to think I’m in that camp, which I’m not. Yesterday he had me pegged as anti-Asian, when I have almost never posted on the subject of Asian immigration, and the one time I have it was supportive.

    Like I said, it’s a scatter gun approach which is bound to get him in trouble more often than not.

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  188. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Ryan, I am not a defender of wrongs by Muslims. I have in fact stated my position that Jews are collectively my most prefered group (of the desert cults) due to their strong intellectual culture. Though I am against religion generally.

    What you see me doing is not attacking Jews, but attacking the suspension of logic based on religious bias and the vilification of a particular religious group. A point many Jews would support me on ! The thing that annoys me most though is the double standards and hypocricy.

    My position is simply that I am opposed to ALL wrongs by All groups. I do not invoke special pleading for a prefered group while minimising their wrongs. That is ShawnLH’s and stupidboys trick.

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  189. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I think Kea that anyone who constantly uses phrases like “the Jews” is suspect.

    You mean like the translators of the books of Kings, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Jeremiah, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Acts?

    Anglicans everywhere must be rolling their eyes in disbelief…

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  190. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    UglyTruth, you are on dangerous ground accurately reporting on the clear words of the bible ;)

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  191. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Special pleading is a formal logical fallacy where a participant demands special considerations for a particular premise of theirs. Usually this is because in order for their argument to work, they need to provide some way to get out of a logical inconsistency — in a lot of cases, this will be the fact that their argument contradicts past arguments or actions. Therefore, they introduce a “special case” or an exception to their rules.

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Special_pleading

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  192. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Yes, I know. But Kea seems to think I’m in that camp, which I’m not. Yesterday he had me pegged as anti-Asian, when I have almost never posted on the subject of Asian immigration, and the one time I have it was supportive.

    Like I said, it’s a scatter gun approach which is bound to get him in trouble more often than not.

    I think if the last 12 months of Kiwiblog have taught us anything, it’s that there’s a lot of variety in some people’s views. That’s a relatively new thing on Kiwiblog, I think. For a long time, you could generalise fairly accurately about “left” and “right” here.

    But now, some very mixed views.

    Like, Stephieboy is a big fan of Obama, so you think “liberal left”, but he’s a cheerleader for drone strikes and Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, which makes you think “conservative right”.

    Kea’s a proponent of Palestinian rights, so you think “liberal left”, but he’s fiscally conservative (I think?).

    You’re about as stereotypically hard-right conservative as it gets on many things, but then you’ll be battling away about the effects of colonialism on indigenous peoples, which bucks the stereotype.

    Reid’s… Well, Reid’s Reid.

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  193. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “I do not invoke special pleading for a prefered group while minimising their wrongs. That is ShawnLH’s and stupidboys trick.”

    Bullshit. Again.

    I’m happy to discuss wrongs done by specific Jewish individuals, or reasonable critiques of Israel. The reason I don’t agree with you is because you use those issues in a dishonest way and you do try to tar all Jews, as in your claim that child abuse is endemic in the entire Jewish population. And you repeatedly misrepresent Jewish religious beliefs, such as in your claim that they consider themselves a “master race.”

    Despite your denial, you clearly have issues with Jews as a whole.

    Fighting one prejudice by engaging in another is like screwing for virginity.

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  194. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    “Tojo” Cunliffe says Labour would have 4% unemployment. That would be correct, he would have public servants slithering down Lambton Quay just like Clark. It was an exercise during their 9 years, passing these sloths as they jaywalked down Featherston Street and Lambton Quay, all times of the day, or else got under one’s feet puffing on cigarettes in doorways. Then there were the ones that had greased into a higher level of employment and had car parks all around the place. Also Cunliffe, do you not realise, under Labour, there are a lot more unemployable, sickness, and ACC recipients, due to your hopeless and wasteful administration.

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  195. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Ryan, I am not a defender of wrongs by Muslims.

    Yes, I know. I just meant that “others do it” isn’t a defence against accusations of generalising.

    I have in fact stated my position that Jews are collectively my most prefered group (of the desert cults) due to their strong intellectual culture. Though I am against religion generally.

    What you see me doing is not attacking Jews, but attacking the suspension of logic based on religious bias and the vilification of a particular religious group. A point many Jews would support me on ! The thing that annoys me most though is the double standards and hypocricy.

    My position is simply that I am opposed to ALL wrongs by All groups. I do not invoke special pleading for a prefered group while minimising their wrongs.

    Yes, I recognise that, Kea. You often make very good points about double standards, different measures applied to different groups and peoples. And it’s very possible that it’s the contrast of your views with the Kiwiblog norm (of varying degrees of anti-Muslim sentiments) that makes you stick out like a sore thumb.

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  196. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Anyway, I’m done with this topic.

    Good point about the diversity on KB Ryan. It does make things interesting!

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  197. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    “That’s a relatively new thing on Kiwiblog, I think. For a long time, you could generalise fairly accurately about “left” and “right” here.

    But now, some very mixed views.”

    Ryan, good observation. I have noticed that too. One point, I have never mentioned Palestinian rights. Its redundant when you defend everyones rights.

    “Fighting one prejudice by engaging in another is like screwing for virginity.”

    I would not knock it until I tired it ;)

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  198. cha (4,032 comments) says:

    Seems Boko Harum have bitten off a little more than they’ll be able to handle.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.590045

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayeret_Matkal

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  199. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Good point about the diversity on KB Ryan. It does make things interesting!

    It really does. It’s nice when positions on issues aren’t predictable, and that you can be agreeing with someone on one issue and disagreeing on another. I think it encourages and appreciation for other perspectives when you’re arguing with someone who was arguing alongside you the day before.

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  200. wikiriwhis business (4,016 comments) says:

    Bill Gates Admits Vaccines Are Used for Human Depopulation .

    At the heart of Gates’ address lies the central Global Warming dogma, which dictates that Co2 emitted by human beings are the primary culprit for the unwanted heating of the globe. Since this artificial alleged human-induced heating effect allegedly stands to devastate the planet if left unabated, Global Warming dogma proponents therefore argue that human Co2 emissions must be drastically reduced. As Gates casually addresses the issue, he goes on to state that one way to accomplish this goal is to reduce the global human population.

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  201. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Ryan, good observation. I have noticed that too. One point, I have never mentioned Palestinian rights. Its redundant when you defend everyones rights.

    Yes. Around here, that puts you in the Palestinian Rights camp.

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  202. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    And it’s very possible that it’s the contrast of your views with the Kiwiblog norm (of varying degrees of anti-Muslim sentiments) that makes you stick out like a sore thumb.

    No shit ! ;)

    Funny thing is when I first started commenting here I was intending to say rather a lot about the Islamification of Europe. I quickly noted that topic was covered, but in rather a confrontingly unbalanced way. Now I am the resident Muslim terrorist in the eyes of many !

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  203. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Funny thing is when I first started commenting here I was intending to say rather a lot about the Islamification of Europe. I quickly noted that topic was covered, but in rather a confrontingly unbalanced way. Now I am the resident Muslim terrorist in the eyes of many !

    Clearly we should get some Muslims to comment on Kiwiblog so that you can have a big old fight with the Kalam cosmological argument with everyone watching.

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  204. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Not sure where you immigrated from but i dont think class exists in NZ. There are people who think they are superior- maybe thats you. There are people who are scum and treat society like shit- maybe thats you instead

    Does ‘class’ exist in NZ ?

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  205. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Ryan, It seems lost on many that we have no one commenting who identifies themselves as Muslim. This does not stop cries of Muslims taking over NZ and imposing their views on us ! It is a thankless task for an atheist trying to argue for some balance before the massed soldiers of Christ looking to defend the holy land :)

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  206. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    “Does ‘class’ exist in NZ ?”

    LRC, well I don’t have any and I was born here.

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  207. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Does ‘class’ exist in NZ ?

    If it does, it would be in the interests of the more advantaged class(es) for everyone to believe it doesn’t.

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  208. publicwatchdog (2,598 comments) says:

    Here you go Kiwibloggers – just to keep you informed :)

    ‘Open Letter/OIA request to NZ Prime Minister John Key:

    “Where is the information that proves Minister of Justice Judith Collins informed Oravida that it ‘may not use any photos taken of the Minister at the event or to publicise the event’?

    NZ Prime Minister
    John Key

    Dear Prime Minister,

    Because your Minister of Justice Judith is currently on leave (at your request), I am referring this OIA to yourself.

    Please be reminded of the following provisions of the NZ Cabinet Manual:

    Specifically :

    “2.89 When accepting an invitation, a Minister should inform the organisation that it may not:

    (a) use any photos taken of the Minister at the event; or
    (b) publicise the event, ”

    http://cabinetmanual.cabinetoffice.govt.nz/files/manual.pdf

    Fees, endorsements, and outside activities
    Product endorsement

    2.87 No Minister should endorse in any media any product or service. Ministers may, however, appear in party political advertisements or in non-political advertisements or announcements in the public interest (promoting, for example, water safety), where no fee would be expected or accepted.

    2.88 Ministers receive many invitations for events and speaking engagements. Ministers should carefully consider which invitations they will accept, and try to honour invitations from a variety of organisations.

    2.89 When accepting an invitation, a Minister should inform the organisation that it may not:

    (a) use any photos taken of the Minister at the event; or
    (b) publicise the event,

    2.90 In speeches, it is appropriate for a Minister to speak positively about the objectives and achievements of an organisation or business.
    It is not appropriate for a Minister to explicitly promote that organisation, or its products or services.

    Fees and other payments

    2.91 Ministers often appear at conferences or other gatherings to explain and discuss government policies and plans. This is an integral function of government, for which the state would expect to meet expenses and no appearance fee would be expected or accepted.

    2.92 If an appearance fee or other personal payment for any non-ministerial activity is offered to a Minister, the Minister may accept it only with the agreement of the Prime Minister.

    Such a payment must be declared in that member’s annual disclosure of pecuniary interests. Unsolicited payments should be returned. With the agreement of the Prime Minister, fees may be accepted and donated directly to a recognised charity, but must still be declared (with an explanatory note).
    Ministers of the Crown: Appointment and Role 31

    2.84 Although cultural gifts may be offered to a Minister with the best of intentions, accepting such gifts may create a perception of a conflict of interest or accusations of “double dipping”. Ministers should return gifts of cash immediately, with a respectful statement explaining that they honour the intent behind the gift, but that it is their job to serve, and that they are already well remunerated for their work.

    2.85 Acceptance of other cultural gifts such as fine mats or food is unlikely to create the same perception problems. The guidance in paragraphs 2.78 – 2.79 should be followed in such cases.

    ____________________________________________________________

    ‘The event’ being the ‘Visit and Tour of the Oravida Facilities on 23 October 2014, (as described on pg 83 and 84 in the following PDF)

    http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/1405/020520141724330001.pdf

    Please provide the information which confirms that your Minister of Justice Judith Collins, informed Oravida

    ” that it may not:

    (a) use any photos taken of the Minister at the event; or

    (b) publicise the event”

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright

    Attendee: 2009 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2010 Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2013 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate (polled 4th with 11,723 votes, campaigning against corrupt corporate control of the Auckland region)

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  209. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Ryan, It seems lost on many that we have no one commenting who identifies themselves as Muslim. This does not stop cries of Muslims taking over NZ and imposing their views on us !

    You might enjoy this:

    It is a thankless task for an atheist trying to argue for some balance before the massed soldiers of Christ looking to defend the holy land

    You must realise that you don’t do yourself any favours with your debating style, though. It’s not just that your positions are unpopular here, it’s the way you state them and the way you engage with others.

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  210. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ publicwatchdog (1,871 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    2.89 When accepting an invitation, a Minister should inform the organisation that it may not:

    (a) use any photos taken of the Minister at the event; or
    (b) publicise the event,

    Good points – but I fear the answer will be she told them in person, and therefore there is no record of her informing them.

    Another question might be, did the Minister complain to Oravida when (if) they ignored her request? If so, when and how?

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  211. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Ryan, do you -really- think I do not know that ? The fact is no matter how gently I call some things into question I get the same response. I am cutting to the core of peoples faith & prejudice. They don’t like it much. It is not helped by the fallacy faith must be respected, while logic is fair game. I do not play by those rules as theists do not set the standard.

    What they don’t see is how easy it would be to shut me up. Can you guess how ? :)

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  212. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ publicwatchdog (1,871 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    Regarding the emails you’ve attached to this comment, maybe you can help me, because no one I’ve asked seems to be able to. Why was it important for Ms Collins to visit China to inquire about their justice system? Is there some part of China’s justice regime that New Zealand is thinking of adopting? If so, what part? Or was Ms Collins visit to try and influence China into adopting some of our examples, in which case, why?

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  213. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Is it too early to start posting obscene jokes ?

    Report clears TVNZ of political bias

    Former TVNZ manager Shane Taurima has confirmed he will seek the Labour candidacy in Tamaki Makaurau after saying he was cleared by a report into his actions while at the State broadcaster.

    The report found that TVNZ resources including a meeting venue, travel, email and telephone and photocopying resources were used inappropriately for Labour Party political purposes and detailed hundreds of email exchanges.

    It also identified $333.43 in travel costs which Taurima would be asked to reimburse because it related to Labour Party business.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10035790/Report-clears-TVNZ-of-political-bias

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  214. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Or was Ms Collins visit to try and influence China into adopting some of our examples, in which case, why?

    It is the New Zealand government’s view that having a clean and transparent government helps to build trust and support among its people. This allows the Government to act with confidence and purpose in developing policy and making change. This in turn allows the country, its economy, and its people to prosper.

    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/address-china-executive-leadership-academy-pudong-celap-china

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  215. stigie (1,201 comments) says:

    “Is it too early to start posting obscene jokes”?

    Thats right Kea…best left for Nasska or Johnboy perhaps !~

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  216. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “I am cutting to the core of peoples faith & prejudice.”

    I don’t think you are, because in order to do that you have to first understand the subject your critiquing, and if there is one thing clear about most of the atheists on KB, it is their profound ignorance about Christianity specifically, and religion in general. Trotting out Bible verses without understanding Christian or Jewish theology, in other words, how is Scripture actually understood and lived in real world faith communities, does not make for a valid or in depth critique. Your misunderstanding about the election of Israel is a good example. Using “master race” to describe that is a clear sign you don’t understand the doctrine, and it’s a straw man argument, a style favoured by most atheists on KB.

    Can you understand Kea that being anti-religious in the way you are is itself a form of prejudice?

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  217. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    he atheists on KB, it is their profound ignorance about Christianity specifically, and religion in general.

    Pew Forum Religious Knowledge Survey: Atheists, Agnostics Score Highest

    Washington, D.C. — Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge. They outperformed evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/28/pew-forum-religious-knowledge-survey_n_741349.html

    [I have surveys. What do you have ?]

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  218. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    atheists on KB, it is their profound ignorance about Christianity specifically, and religion in general.

    [And from Israel]

    Survey: Atheists, Jews top U.S. religious knowledge survey

    Atheists and agnostics topped a survey of religious knowledge among Americans released on Tuesday by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

    •More than four-in-10 Catholics do not know that their church teaches that the bread and wine used in Communion actually become the body and blood of Christ.
    •About half of Protestants cannot correctly identify Martin Luther as the person who sparked the Protestant Reformation.
    •Less than half identified Buddhism as the Dalai Lama’s religion, 51 percent knew that Joseph Smith was Mormon and 54 percent correctly said the Koran is the Islamic holy book. More than 80 percent knew that Mother Teresa was Catholic.
    •Nine-in-10 Americans know U.S. Supreme Court rulings do not allow teachers to lead public school classes in prayer. But two-thirds incorrectly said Supreme Court rulings prevent them from using the Bible as an example of literature.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/2.209/survey-atheists-jews-top-u-s-religious-knowledge-survey-1.316213

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  219. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    They don’t like it much. It is not helped by the fallacy faith must be respected, while logic is fair game. I do not play by those rules as theists do not set the standard.

    What does “respecting faith” mean, in this context?

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  220. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ UglyTruth (3,426 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 4:14 pm

    So we were there teaching them? Thank goodness for that!

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  221. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Judith, whenever I see the word “allow” being used like that, my opinion of people drops a little.

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  222. lilman (960 comments) says:

    Penny PAY YOUR BILLS,please!

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  223. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    OH NO YOU DIDN’T !!!!!

    The spokesperson said the car was heavily damaged in the crash, which may have been due to a lack of grip on cold tires.

    Tyres you fuckwits !! Tyres !!

    But yeah how cool is that to tell people what you’ve been up to ? ‘Yeah – totalled the Ferrari at the track the other day’.

    America is taking over your brain – you are now one of them.

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  224. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    Only a bullet could rid society from this beast: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8843448/sex-offender-masturbates-on-akld-buses

    Police are hunting a convicted sex offender who has been spotted by commuters masturbating on several buses travelling around central Auckland.

    Richard Hona, 44, was released from prison just over three weeks ago into a programme of intensive supervision which forbids him from taking public transport.

    Hona, who is a recidivist offender, is a tall, light-skinned Maori man of thin to medium build with long black hair and acne scarring on both cheeks.

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  225. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Jesus Manolo is wanking illegal !!!! ;)

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  226. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Kea, I was talking about the atheists on KB, including you.

    “It is a thankless task for an atheist trying to argue for some balance before the massed soldiers of Christ looking to defend the holy land”

    Christians in particular are a minority on KB, so where exactly are these “massed soldiers of Christ”?

    Most of the anti-Muslim people on KB are not even religious, let alone Christians. That is likely true of pro-Israel people as well. Many here are pro-Israel for political reasons, not religious.

    I think there is a lot going on in your mind that does not correspond to reality. Your starting from a lot of loaded assumptions, which is a form of prejudice.

    Before crusading against what you think are other peoples prejudice, you really should deal with your own.

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  227. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    I gave this a quick look. One of the biggest set-ups I can think of was driving trolley buses with non-working horns. Waiting to turn right on a short phase green arrow. The retard in vehicle ahead would sit at the green arrow – then wake up and turn as it turned yellow – sticking me with a red light for another eternal epoch. (This is why you do not want to drive for a living. Or drive full stop).

    If that was me now and I kid you not – I would take a fucking airhorn to work as part of my standard equipment. I’d keep it in my right hand in anticipation at a red light (of course the risk is an obstinate or even psychopathic response from fuckwit in front).

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  228. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ UglyTruth (3,427 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 4:35 pm

    That is a good point – I agree.

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  229. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Nah, it’s tires. You Kiwis need to learn to speak proper English. ;)

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  230. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Kea, have you noticed that other atheists here, like griffith and mikenmild, don’t respect you or line up to support you?

    Think about why that might be for a while.

    Bye now.

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  231. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Could it be coz Kea is a complete dickhead?

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  232. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Atheist isn’t a club a group or a religion spawn it is the default position for all before they are indoctrinated by parents and church into god whacking.

    Kea/ marnie is a troll ….She trolls here for the attention it gets her. Its all the poor pathetic wingnut has…… KB GD is her entire life……. 11,500 comments in under a year…. :lol:

    She was banned from sci blogs for being such a spinning space cadet.

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  233. cha (4,032 comments) says:

    Here ya go Fletch.

    http://www.cafepress.co.nz/+benghazi_we_will_not_forget_shower_curtain,849149813

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  234. nasska (11,535 comments) says:

    Great to see that Kea & Ryan have kissed & made up. :)

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  235. Lucia Maria (2,428 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Your surveys are not of Kiwiblog readers and/or commenters, of which Shawn was referring to in the comment you responded to.

    I took that survey, btw, sometime last year. I bet my score was higher than your score.

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  236. RF (1,399 comments) says:

    Just saw Thumb Head cunliffe on TV. Brothers and sisters of the right we do not have a problem. He is a total waste of space. Love the fancy speech but so insincere and rehearsed.

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  237. Steve (North Shore) (4,563 comments) says:

    Penny,
    Why don’t you send your “Here you go Kiwibloggers – just to keep you informed” writings to the Herald?
    They need shit to fill the newspaper more than this blog needs wasted space to scroll through

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  238. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Great unsolved supermarket mysteries of the universe . . .

    NW – Coke range – 1.5 litres a bloody pricey $4.54 while the 2.25 litre range is (on special ?) $3.39 (roughly). WTF ??

    So I bought Schweppes light ginger beer 1.5L to try – $2.79 on special. It’s just barely passable and that’s it, so will not buy again.

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  239. Rich Prick (1,705 comments) says:

    Just saw Cunliffe’s “doer-upper” on Campbell Live’s Love-in with Lefties. What a dump. He’s doing it rough.

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  240. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Dont do that shit lrc it’s very bad for you drink milk or h2o

    you will end up one sick or dead puppy if you drink that shit.

    Dad went to the doctor last week .

    The doctor freaked out at the results. Dad has been on diabetic and blood pressure meds for years

    He now has normal blood sugar and low blood pressure .

    No more stupid daily meds for the old fart six months from eight pills a day to none. All it took was a good healthy basic diet.

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  241. nasska (11,535 comments) says:

    But does he enjoy that good healthy basic diet Griff….some of those health food regimes can get fairly boring.

    (brought to you by the Assn. of Sheep & Beef Farmers) :)

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  242. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Could it be coz Kea is a complete dickhead?”

    I was trying to be polite. :)

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  243. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    I take trim milk in tea griff but I wouldn’t drink large quantities generally due to milk’s energy content of 150-250kj / 100mls.

    Plain tap water ? Kill me now. Sweeteners are controversial – well aware of issue.

    Guess what ? I don’t give a fuck. If I don’t get the enjoyment of them – I’m the living dead now.

    I don’t know where the studies of the long-term health effects of sugar free soft drink are but I’m taking the risk in this case.

    Even the healthiest person on earth is going to snuff it. And as some comedian said somewhere of the health craze ‘it’s going to be weird, isn’t it ? All of these old people in hospital dying of nothing’.

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  244. cha (4,032 comments) says:

    heh

    https://twitter.com/CalebRapoport/status/465675069230825473

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  245. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “it is the default position for all before they are indoctrinated by parents and church into god whacking.”

    Studies strongly suggest that children are naturally spiritual. Whether that has anything to do with organised religion is another matter. But, not really looking for yet another religious debate.

    “No more stupid daily meds for the old fart six months from eight pills a day to none. All it took was a good healthy basic diet.”

    I beat type 2 diabetes the same way. It actually wasn’t that hard, and didn’t require some of those hair shirt bland diets some people get into. Just eat less, eat better, and exercise more.

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  246. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    nasskstar – of course it’s fucking boring !!

    naz – I’m a greedy non-fussy bastard who dreams of the junk food aisle all day long – trapped inside a dieter’s body.

    I can name all twelve fucking Roses chocolates from memory. Ok – no cheating I swear – strawberry, cherry, turkish delight, chocolate bliss, chcolate praline, orange chocolate, peppermint, caramel, vanllia butter fudge, classic fudge, hazelnut praline, hazelnut swirl. I haven’t got all the names 100% but that’s all of them :)

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  247. nasska (11,535 comments) says:

    ….”children are naturally spiritual”…..

    Only because they don’t know any better. They’re born incontinent too but usually grow out of it.

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  248. nasska (11,535 comments) says:

    Shopping must be hell LR&C. :)

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  249. Don the Kiwi (1,761 comments) says:

    nasska (9,757 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 7:53 pm
    ….”children are naturally spiritual”…..

    Only because they don’t know any better. They’re born incontinent too but usually grow out of it.

    Dunno about that mate.

    How come many adults still spill heaps of shit – and apparently involuntarily as well. Cunliffe on TV 3 tonite………. :-)

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  250. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Studies always back up a religious bias. Anyone else notice that ? Studies say gay folks are just being silly pretending to be gay.

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  251. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    ” Cunliffe on TV 3 tonite”

    Oh dear, what shite was he spewing tonight?

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  252. nasska (11,535 comments) says:

    Does anyone else think that telling kids about the tooth fairy is a bad idea?

    I mean we’re essentially telling children that they can sell body parts for money…..

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  253. cha (4,032 comments) says:

    Studies strongly suggest that children are naturally spiritual.

    Next up, you’ll be telling us that hands grow back too.

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  254. Don the Kiwi (1,761 comments) says:

    Just the usual “deflections” of the truth, Shawn.

    He really tried hard to come across as the genuine “rags to ………doing well” kiwi bloke.

    All seemed a bit hollow to me – but I admit I’m biased.

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  255. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “He really tried hard to come across as the genuine “rags to ………doing well” kiwi bloke.”

    heh, in truth that would be JK.

    “All seemed a bit hollow to me – but I admit I’m biased.”

    So am I, but my mother, who is a lifelong Labour voter, thinks he comes across as smarmy and false as well.

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  256. Lucia Maria (2,428 comments) says:

    ….”children are naturally spiritual”…..

    Only because they don’t know any better. They’re born incontinent too but usually grow out of it.

    Children are not actually born incontinent. They know when they need to go to the toilet, it’s just that their parents don’t want to deal with the mess if they get it wrong, therefore they train incontinence into their babies initially. I used to regularly get my 2nd baby to pee into a bucket from pretty much after birth.

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  257. nasska (11,535 comments) says:

    He’ll be aiming his words at his hard core supporters so it doesn’t matter Don.

    They’re not very bright. :)

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  258. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Don’t even joke about it naz – it truly is a fucking nightmare.

    Stop me any time from scrolling boring detail but my latest tactic is to go to the shops every day – see all the wonderful shit I can’t have on a daily basis – and then tell myself I’ll be here tomorrow if I really want it tomorrow. Being at the shop every day somehow ironically works.

    From reading I learnt that people have an emotional primitive reaction to a yummy bargain and buy on impulse. The longer you’re able to put off the purchase and let the rational reasoning part of brain *think it through* the more likely you are to think twice about it.

    I’ve literally spent an hour in a supermarket before the rational side ‘won’ and put back dirt cheap reduced raspberry fingers. And the one time I did finally buy them – the jammy gits at Countdown – unlike puke ‘n’ save – don’t put the gorgeous fake jam syrup in the middle – son of a bitch !!

    BTW – I laughed my arse off at your frustration at being stuck behind faffing women at the checkout. People are hell.

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  259. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    For all you sceptics :)

    “Born Believers: The Science of Children’s Religious Beliefs”

    http://bycommonconsent.com/2012/03/08/review-justin-l-barrett-born-believers-the-science-of-childrens-religious-beliefs/

    Out of the mouths of babes: Do children believe because they’re told to by adults? The evidence suggests otherwise.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2008/nov/25/religion-children-god-belief

    Why we are born to believe in God: It’s wired into the brain, says psychologist.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211511/Why-born-believe-God-Its-wired-brain-says-psychologist.html

    Belief in God is part of human nature – Oxford study: Humans are naturally predisposed to believe in gods and life after death, according to a major three-year international study.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8510711/Belief-in-God-is-part-of-human-nature-Oxford-study.html

    Humans ‘predisposed’ to believe in gods and the afterlife.
    http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2011/110513.html

    Boston University Study Examines the Development of Children’s Prelife Reasoning: Evidence suggests our hard-wired belief in immortality may be the root of core religious beliefs.

    http://www.bu.edu/news/2014/01/27/boston-university-study-examines-the-development-of-childrens-prelife-reasoning/

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  260. nasska (11,535 comments) says:

    The grog just about had me beat LR&C so I can see where you’re coming from.

    A food addiction in some ways would be harder as there’s no way you can simply give up eating.

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  261. publicwatchdog (2,598 comments) says:

    Seen this Kiwibloggers?

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/business/qoa/50HansQ_20140507_00000001/1-prime-minister%E2%80%94statements

    1. Prime Minister—Statements

    [Sitting date: 07 May 2014. Volume:698;Page:17557. Text is subject to correction.]

    ………………………………………

    Hon David Cunliffe: As the Prime Minister so obviously cannot defend the Minister of Justice, why does he not do what all New Zealanders expect as the inevitable and let her go?

    Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Far from that, the Minister enjoys my full confidence. I think that, as a Minister in a number of portfolios for the last 5½ years, she has done an outstanding job. What she has not done is set up a secret trust to hide donors. What she has not done is had the hypocrisy of being part of a Government that campaigns against trusts and then takes money from people—

    ________________________________________________________________________________________________

    If the Minister of Justice Judith Collins has done such an ‘outstanding job’ – how come on HER watch – NZ has STILL not ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption?

    If the Minister of Justice Judith Collins has done such an ‘outstanding job’ – how come her ‘Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill’ has not yet surfaced in the House?

    (The passage of Judith Collins’ ‘Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill’ is necessary before NZ can ratify the
    UN Convention Against Corruption, and this Bill was supposed to have been introduced into the House in 2013).

    How come I have yet to have a formal acknowledgment by either Minister of Justice Judith Collins or Prime Minister John Key of the following OIA request on this matter?

    ________________________________________________________________________________________________

    7 May 2014

    ‘Open Letter’ /OIA request to Prime Minister John Key :

    “Why has New Zealand STILL not yet ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC)?”

    Dear Prime Minister,

    Please be reminded that according to the 2013 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’, New Zealand, (along with Denmark) is ‘perceived’ to be the least corrupt country in the world.

    http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/

    However, New Zealand is still one of a handful of countries which has STILL not ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC).

    (UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC)

    http://www.unodc.org/documents/treaties/UNCAC/Publications/Convention/08-50026_E.pdf

    (Signatories to the UN Convention Against Corruption

    https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/treaties/CAC/signatories.html

    ____________________________________________________________

    In a letter to Transparency International New Zealand (TINZ), dated 7 August 2013, your Minister of Justice Judith Collins stated:

    “New Zealand ratification of the United Nations Convention Against Corruption

    Thank you for your correspondence of 31 May 2013 to myself, Hon Murray McCully, and Hon Tim Groser regarding New Zealand’s ratification of the
    United Nations Convention Against Corruption.

    Like you, I also believe that ratifying UNCAC would be advantageous. Ratification of the Convention is important to ensure New Zealand retains its international reputation for transparency, integrity, and trustworthiness, which can have flow-on economic benefits for the country.

    It is for these reasons that I have announced a package of legislative reforms that will allow New Zealand to ratify UNCAC. the reforms will be progressed as part of an Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Bill which I intend to introduce into Parliament later in 2013.

    As you may be aware, it is the policy of the New Zealand Government that binding treaty actions such as ratification is not taken until New Zealand’s domestic law is compliant with the treaty obligations. As you state in your letter, only minor amendments are necessary to bring New Zealand into compliance with the UNCAC obligations.

    The Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Bill will contain the required amendments. After the Bill is passed and the changes are enacted, officials will promptly take steps to deposit New Zealand’s instrument of ratification of UNCAC.

    Yours sincerely,

    Hon Judith Collins
    Minister of Justice.”

    NZ Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill

    http://www.transparency.org.nz/docs/2013/Hon-Judith-Collins-Minister-of-Justice-Letter-to-TINZ.pdf

    Your Minister of Justice Judith Collins’ press release of 18 October 2013:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1310/S00301/bill-supports-zero-tolerance-for-organised-crime.htm

    Bill supports zero-tolerance for organised crime
    Friday, 18 October 2013, 10:03 am
    Press Release: New Zealand Government
    Hon Judith Collins

    Minister of Justice

    18 October 2013 Media Statement

    Bill supports zero-tolerance for organised crime

    Justice Minister Judith Collins says the Government’s comprehensive approach to fighting all forms of organised crime will help safeguard New Zealand’s economy, international reputation and public safety.

    This month a number of international bodies are evaluating New Zealand’s compliance with international standards related to financial crimes – including the OECD, which will report on New Zealand’s compliance with an international convention to combat bribery of foreign public officials.

    “I welcome the release of these reports.

    This Government takes all forms of organised crime and corruption very seriously,” Ms Collins says.

    ___________________________________________________

    http://www.3news.co.nz/New-laws-to-fight-organised-crime/tabid/1607/articleID/317781/Default.aspx

    New laws to fight organised crime
    Friday 18 Oct 2013 10:33a.m.

    The Government will bring in a bill before the end of the year to strengthen laws against money laundering, identity theft, human trafficking and corruption.
    Justice Minister Judith Collins says she intends to have a comprehensive set of laws in place to fight all forms of organised crime.
    “It’s important to consider bribery and corruption within the big picture of organised crime, which undermines public safety, national security, economic development and good governance,” she said today.
    “This bill will help ensure New Zealand maintains its reputation as a responsible international citizen and that our domestic law enforcement agencies have the tolls they need to fight all forms of organised crime.”
    _______________________________________________

    Unfortunately, it is now May 2014, and your Minister of Justice Judith Collins’ Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Bill, has STILL not been presented to Parliament:

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/legislation/bills/?Criteria.Keyword=Organised+Crime+and+Anti-Corruption+Legislation+Bill%2C&Criteria.Timeframe=&Criteria.Parliament=-1&Criteria.DocumentType=&Criteria.Status=&Search=Go

    Legislation
    Bills
    This section lists bills before the House and its committees, and provides access to more detailed information about each one. You will also find the schedule of divided bills and progress of legislationhere. To find out more about bills before select committees, see the committee business summary.

    Close Bills search

    No documents were found
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________

    OFFICIAL INFORMATION ACT REQUEST:

    Please provide the information which explains why Minister of Justice Judith Collins”Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Bill’, has STILL not been presented to Parliament.

    Yours sincerely,
    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

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  262. Don the Kiwi (1,761 comments) says:

    See what I mean about adults being verbally incontinent?

    Piss off Penny.

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  263. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Penny’s bigger posts remind me of the Star Destroyer at the start of the first Star Wars flick.

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  264. nasska (11,535 comments) says:

    You can do a Penny Bright size comments worth of links Shawn but they’ll all have originated from some Godwhack who chose his breakfast mushrooms carelessly

    Since none of you experts has ever seen or touched God & come back to tell the tale I’ll hold on to my scepticism & belief that telling kiddies about Skyfairies is a form of child abuse.

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  265. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Crime and corruption, like say, not paying your rates?

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  266. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “but they’ll all have originated from some Godwhack ”

    Nope. One psychologist and two extensive secular University studies from Oxford and Boston. A non-religious Canadian university has been doing a similar study.

    In short, it comes from science nasska.

    But, your welcome to sceptical about science if you like. :)

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  267. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    I bet my score was higher than your score.

    Hi Lucy. I bet my dick is bigger.

    ShawnLH, As a Christian mate said to me once; “There is a God shaped hole in all of us”. Surprisingly (for you) I agree. However that is not evidence of God.

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  268. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    Oh Dear.

    CASH from a union slush fund was paid directly into the pockets of builders who were renovating the home of former prime minister Julia Gillard, the Royal Commission into union corruption has heard.

    Giving evidence at the commission, self-confessed union bagman Ralph Blewitt said he walked into Ms Gillard’s Melbourne home and under the instruction of Australian Workers’ Union secretary Bruce Wilson, gave $7000 in cash to a builder renovating Ms Gillard’s kitchen and veranda.

    He confirmed Ms Gillard was in the home at the time of the transaction.

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/cash-from-a-union-slush-fund-was-used-to-pay-for-julia-gillards-home-renovations-royal-commission-told/story-fnii5s40-1226914659326

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  269. nasska (11,535 comments) says:

    ….”it comes from science”….

    So does AGW….it’s a fraud too.

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  270. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Studies strongly suggest that children are naturally spiritual.

    Observation of reality demonstrates conclusively that kids are prone to believe in any number of non existent things.

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  271. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    “So does AGW….it’s a fraud too.”

    nasska, I am humbled great master troll LOL :)

    “they’ll all have originated from some Godwhack who chose his breakfast mushrooms carelessly”

    He’s on fire tonight. :)

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  272. nasska (11,535 comments) says:

    Well Kea, did you & Ryan…..you know (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)? :)

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  273. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “….”it comes from science”….

    So does AGW….it’s a fraud too.”

    Next you’ll be telling me the earth was created in seven solar days and the science of evolution is a fraud! :)

    Sheesh, you atheist religious folks sure are selective about reason and science! :)

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  274. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Whoa naz – ouch – you had a booze thing ? Sorry to hear it – but you beat it, yeah ? I’d love to hear more about it but that would involve an essay and spilling your guts to all and sundry – so what can you do ??

    I just had a nice little digestive biscuit craving – mmmmm. My joke before a run was always ‘what craving am I going to taste today ? And then whatever it was – eg – oooo – bacon and eggs – mmmm, yum fantastic. Yeah, that would be good. 3kms to go – hahahaha’

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  275. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Shawn
    Last time I give you this tip: It’s ‘you’re’ if you mean ‘you are’, not ‘your’. Irritates the hell out of me.

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  276. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    atheists on KB, it is their profound ignorance about Christianity specifically, and religion in general.

    That’s probably a fair description of me. “Profound ignorance” might be a bit strong but I’ve never felt any affinity for any religion and my knowledge is nothing more than superficial.

    I’ve learnt more from Jesus Christ Superstar than anything, I like the story, I like the music, I know the lyrics very well, but it’s just a story guessing what things might have been a bit like 2,000 years ago. It never attracted me to take on religious beliefs. Simply I have a need for faith based explanations of anything.

    I accept that others get something out of religion, that’s up to them if they keep it to themselves like most New Zealanders do.

    One thing I do strongly object to us being warned of dire consequences if I don’t copy someone else’s beliefs. I think faith/emotional blackmail is insidious. Everyone should be left to make up their own mind without being pressured.

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  277. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Last time I give you this tip: It’s ‘you’re’ if you mean ‘you are’, not ‘your’. Irritates the hell out of me.”

    Sorry, forgot.

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  278. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Well Kea, did you & Ryan…..you know (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)?

    nasska, misunderstanding though Ryan was butt-hurt as a result ;)

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  279. Don the Kiwi (1,761 comments) says:

    nasska (9,764 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 8:25 pm
    ….”it comes from science”….

    So does AGW….it’s a fraud too.

    Next thing nasska, you’ll be telling me that Griffith is a scientist :-)

    But as you know, AGW comes from bribery, and a train driver who is head of the IPCC.

    I’m sure God forgives you for your unbelief nasska. One day, maybe ;-)

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  280. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Hi Pete,

    “I accept that others get something out of religion, that’s up to them if they keep it to themselves like most New Zealanders do.

    One thing I do strongly object to us being warned of dire consequences if I don’t copy someone else’s beliefs. I think faith/emotional blackmail is insidious. Everyone should be left to make up their own mind without being pressured.”

    Well keeping it to myself would contradict my beliefs, but I don’t believe in pressuring people or using hell as a threat.

    I’m Anglican remember. We really don’t do the dire consequences thing.

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  281. Lucia Maria (2,428 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Since we are talking allegorically… Not. A. Chance.

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  282. nasska (11,535 comments) says:

    ….”Well keeping it to myself would contradict my belief”…..

    Why can’t the first rule of religion be the same as the first rule of Fight Club. :)

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  283. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    I guess you’re still hoping that your team can take out the Swindale then milkey even if you’re just not as talented as your historical sides used to be before your Catholic brothers took over your team and made you look the losers that you’re looking like now? :)

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  284. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Lucy stop using words I need to look up. :)

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  285. nasska (11,535 comments) says:

    ….” Ryan was butt-hurt as a result”….

    That was unfortunate Kea…..very sad. :)

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  286. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    I’m happy to look up Lucy if you’re ( :) ) too busy Kea! :)

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  287. publicwatchdog (2,598 comments) says:

    Judith – my computer is playing up – but under the Public Records Act 2005 – full and accurate records are supposed to be created and maintained.

    How can you have transparency or accountability without proper written records?

    Meeting the Minister?

    WHERE’S THE MINUTES???

    Ministerial correspondence?

    WHERE’S THE WRITTEN RECORD?

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  288. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Actually I do not expect Christians to “keep it to themselves”. They would be lousy Christians if they do. Also I would be insulted if my god bothering mates did not try to save my soul from eternal torture.

    They can run around talking in tongues and handling serpents all day and cause Kea no offense. I just want the religious inspired killing and oppression to stop.

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  289. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Judith – my computer is playing up”

    Are you sure that’s all that’s playing up on your side Penny? :)

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  290. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    I’m happy to look up Lucy if you’re ( :) ) too busy Kea! :)

    Johnboy, Hands Off my Lucy. She is so dam sexy and intense. Smart too. :)

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  291. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Pay for the updates Penny and your computer will work alright again! :)

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  292. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, can’t you and Lucy help poor Penny with some sort of incantation or something ?

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  293. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “They can run around talking in tongues and handling serpents”

    I used to take up seprents when I was a kid…..for dinner. Had a ready supply of them in the swamps where we lived.

    Mmmmmmmmmm…snake meat! :)

    Two things I miss from childhood, snake and gator meat.

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  294. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Well I made the offer as mates do Kea.

    If Lucy can get a handle on your serpent and deal to it in a satisfactory manner let me know so I can show her the huge one I’m troubled with! :)

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  295. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “ShawnLH, can’t you and Lucy help poor Penny with some sort of incantation or something ?”

    She’s beyond even the darkest magics Kea! :)

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  296. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    A food addiction in some ways would be harder as there’s no way you can simply give up eating.

    Big topic. With food – at least the more of it you eat, the more signals the body sends and makes to encourage cessation of eating. A full stomach is the easiest example. Does anyone with a groaning full stomach really want to keep on eating more and more ? Not really.

    The desirability of food is relative. A bun with icing might be wickedly tempting . . . after a dozen have disappeared they magically lose their power (my record – while dieting and in shape – is 24 buns across one morning. No – you definitely can’t do that every day).

    So what happens is that a lot of people fall into this category of various shades of being overweight and mildly obese without being morbidly obese. Why aren’t more people morbidly obese ? Many factors – time / busy working / money / physical activity etc – but I assert that people love eating yummy high energy food – and yet reach a point where they’ve had enough and stop naturally. Leaving them overweight without making it to ‘jabba the hut’ size.

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  297. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Johnboy, the Christians are known for handling serpents to prove how harmless they are before God. If she REALLY loved God she would feel no fear and jump at the chance. ;)

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  298. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    I used to take up seprents when I was a kid…..for dinner. Had a ready supply of them in the swamps where we lived.

    This explains a lot ;) Where did you grow up, in the US ?

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  299. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Since you were asking LRaC

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  300. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Johnboy, the Christians are known for handling serpents to prove how harmless they are before God.”

    That’s actually a pretty tiny sect in the Appalachians.

    “Where did you grow up, in the US ?”

    Northern Florida for a few years, and then just across the state line in southern Georgia.

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  301. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Judith – my computer is playing up – but under the Public Records Act 2005 – full and accurate records are supposed to be created and maintained.

    nasska – come on quick wit – that’s not a bad set-up – make me bust a gut :)

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  302. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Jesus. It’s a miracle. 24 minutes I’ve been here and Minus hasn’t struck yet!!! :)

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  303. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    johnboy – I don’t have the data for video viewing – sorry mate. Maybe if or when I rejoin society I’ll be able to get big gigs.

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  304. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Vote Labour/Green LRaC. Tell them your a Murri and you’ll get 500Gig a month free so you can catch up with da kulture bro! :)

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  305. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Here’s another dieting tip: save a meal to coincide with something good on TV (works if you have no timeshift, internet or pay TV only). Careful you don’t starve to death – set a time limit and keep a go to dvd handy – hahahahaha

    Monday is just arse on free to air – just arse. I’m waiting for Paul Henry / Letterman then pulling the trigger on the world’s best porridge and fruit – oh yeah baby.

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  306. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    da kulture bro . . .

    What – American black rappers ? Ghetto chic fashion trends ? The lastest de rigueur hoodies and costume bling ?

    How many people in Wainui can speak French tell me ?

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  307. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Apart from Blacklist on Sundays there is not a helluva lot to watch on any day of the week.

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  308. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Another dieting tip – type shit on KB all night. Typing = not eating. Brilliant.

    Well I like ‘Just Shoot Me’ Shawn and that’s on every day so I’m enjoying that while it lasts. And a few other things are ok.

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  309. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    ‘Apart from Blacklist on Sundays there is not a helluva lot to watch on any day of the week’

    Luther – UK TV – great TV – Monday night

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  310. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    As long as no-one tags the biggest red downtick that will fit onto your residential dwelling Johnboy.

    That would be fucking horrible – but no doubt you’d see the funny side – probably :)

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  311. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    I heard some old (white 99.9% sure) fella on National saying he hadn’t watched TV for 20-30 years . . . hmmmm

    TV is like a lot of things. It’s plugging into the Matrix to satisfy unfed hungers. It’s escape. Denial. Delusion. ‘Better than life’.

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  312. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    What the fuck has the train driver got to do with agw ?
    oh that’s right you idiots think that the ipcc is the root of all agw You also seem to think that the manager of the ipcc is responsable for some sort of scam. the great global consprowhacky of evil scientists
    As you have been informed soooo fucking many times the ipcc doesnt employ any scientist it is only a collating organisation.

    Total staff paid by the ipcc is 12 including the manager who was a train engineer….paid for by us so the governments get the information to make informed policy. The IPCC was created at the request of global governments by the un to distill the current state of scientific knowledge.
    It’s so sad to see so many fuck wits spouting such pathetic crap because of greed for an unsustainable life style. Next year will be a wake up call as we are entering into the first significant el Nino event since 1998…… the records will tumble and even you idiots will notice the wild weather we will get as a result globally .

    Diet isnt boring when you cut out the processed crap I run my own stock which I eat There is a large crock pot full of ox tail stew boiling away right now it will be breakfast lunch and tea tomorrow yummy with no salt or processed flavour crap just veg and herb from the garden and the tail from the last bull killed.

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  313. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Luther – UK TV – great TV – Monday night”

    Yes, Iv’e heard it’s good, plus it has Idris Elba, who was outstanding in The Wire. I will probably get the first season on DVD. 95% of what we watch is on DVD. If I find a series I really like I can’t stand having it cut up with commercials.

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  314. Northland Wahine (667 comments) says:

    I read this and despair…

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11253417

    And before some bleeding heart defends her, just think about it. This breeder knew what she was
    doing leaving a 6 yr old at home to care for 3 smaller babies.

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  315. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Problem is n warhine cyfs is not going to do a better job. The kids are proberbly doomed any way it falls. sad but true…

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  316. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    Labour corruption in Oz: http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/union-payments-hidden-in-secret-fund/story-e6frfku9-1226914650893

    A union official went to the home of former prime minister Julia Gillard and gave cash to workers doing renovations, a royal commission into union corruption has heard.

    Ralph Blewitt, the former secretary of the Western Australia branch of the Australian Workers’ Union, told the commission he had $10,000 or $20,000 in cash when, in 1994, he went to Ms Gillard’s Melbourne home to meet Bruce Wilson, his union boss and Ms Gillard’s then-boyfriend.

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  317. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Well Kea, did you & Ryan…..you know (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)?

    He certainly squirmed when I pinned him down.

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