General Debate 14 May 2014

May 14th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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287 Responses to “General Debate 14 May 2014”

  1. Scott Chris (5,940 comments) says:

    Parliament’s Troll:

    Winston Kea

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  2. All_on_Red (1,464 comments) says:

    Question Time
    1.Will Russell ever get his flag back?
    2. Isn’t the Greens Clean tech Bank the biggest example of Crony Capitalism we’ve ever seen?
    3. Why do the Greens promote things which other countries have tried and seen fail? Will they ever catch up and stop believing everything Greenpeace tells them?
    4. Isn’t it weird that one percenters like Phillip Mills want to penalise and hurt the very system which made them wealthy?
    5. Has Winston shrunk so much he now buys his clothes from the children’s section at Hallensteins?
    6. Were any animals harmed when they made his toupee and should PETA be concerned?
    7. How many mirrors does Corin Dann own?
    8. Is it true that Viagra wanted Barry Soper to be their spokesperson but he declined because it just wouldn’t work?
    9. Is Media bias going to be the next Election issue discussed and why not?
    10. Can National beat the combined resources of the Media, the Unions,Labour and the Greens to win the Election?
    11. What a fantastic noise. The last one sold for $65,000,000. Would you if you could?
    http://www.petrolicious.com/driving-this-ferrari-gto-is-a-certain-kind-of-ecstasy
    12. Did David Cunliffe cry when he read the Poll on Stuff?
    13. Mmm, mince on toast.

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  3. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    “Parliament’s Troll:

    Winston Kea

    Oh look Snott pulled his hand off his dick long enough to type a couple of words. Not quite a coherent sentence yet, but a vast improvement over his usual vapid contributions. :)

    Edit: Just checked the link. It really did show a Kea ! but I will let the comment stand. ;)

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  4. hj (6,593 comments) says:

    On Radio NZ they were talking about technology putting people out of work (the post office) while IT were crying out. The problem is that only the creme de creme can do that sort of IT work. Joyce said those that loose out move sideways (into other jobs) that is b.s they either accept lower wages or less work. All over modernised manufacturing plants require fewer people. What we need is less want; one way to achieve that is in the urban form (eg Susan Krumdieks eco village), but it isn’t the whole answer.
    National’s other b.s is globalisation all ships rise :
    http://www.worldwatch.org/node/559

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  5. Scott Chris (5,940 comments) says:

    More trolls:

    A community group wants what it says is Auckland City’s deepest quarry filled in before new houses are built in the pit deep below ground level:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11254309

    No one is telling you to buy the properties you fucktards.

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  6. Pete George (23,128 comments) says:

    Campbell Live’s ‘At Home with the Leaders’ gave a good insight into the person David Cunliffe as opposed to the politician.

    I hope that as people get to know me they will realise that I’m here to help, and that I’m in it for the right reasons. and I hope that they’ll forgive me a few learning curves and rough edges as I settle into this job. I’m learning all the time.

    I’m a social democrat, I’m in it for people. I know we have to make lasting change, but we do it with people, not just for them. So you know, there’s a lot underneath that, but it’s about people first really, yeah.

    I’m actually just trying to learn to relax, be composed, just take it as it comes and not overthink it, so it’s like, you’ve gotta get over the hump and down the other side, if you know what I’m saying.

    The problem is (apart from the latest poll) Cunliffe was back at the same old the next day in a Standard Q & A, doing little more than cutting and pasting speech writer and media handler parrot phrases. He didn’t even read simple questions properly.

    Cunliffe genuine at home, disappointing in Q & A

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  7. Ed Snack (1,769 comments) says:

    A social democrat, in it “for the people”, isn’t that a Tui ad ?

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  8. flipper (3,743 comments) says:

    So … according to TVNZ (for one) and Peters, Ministers on official business overseas are required to declare any assistance provided by the host nations as a personal benefit.

    TVNZ and Peters continue to ignore the fact that both J Key and S Brownlee provided rule details to assert that such assistance is not to be regarded as personal.

    As always the Peters assertions move from one point to another and are are just ridiculous, and the media allows him licence to lie.

    And …. assuming for just one moment that Collins committed a misdemeanour, can someone please explain what LAW OF THE LAND (as Peters describes it) has been broken. Please quote the Statute.
    (En passant… did anyone else notice J Key’s sledge of Peters yesterday… not once but twice referring to Peters’ apparent inebriation.)

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  9. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    “More trolls:”

    Scott Chris, the dam things are everywhere ! Once the sun comes up I suspect the Elves will scare them off, if PG does not bore them to death first.

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  10. martinh (1,163 comments) says:

    Nick Smith displaying why he needs to be retired off.
    Hes losing it like Judith.
    He contradicts exactly what he said on tv3 himself last night
    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Housing-Minister-Nick-Smith-plays-down-foreign-home-ownership/tabid/506/articleID/45250/Default.aspx

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  11. redqueen (501 comments) says:

    If Winnie the Poo was drunk, it was only from sipping on his overflowing ego. What more could he need?

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  12. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Nick Smith displaying why he needs to be retired off.

    Well certainly your fellow Labour voters in his electorate would agree with your position. It can’t be much fun losing every single election to Nick.

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  13. Viking2 (11,215 comments) says:

    Labor Party, ministers hang Kevin Rudd out to dry at batts inquiry

    SARAH ELKS
    The Australian
    May 14, 2014 12:00AM

    KEVIN Rudd has been cut adrift by the Labor Party and two of his former ministers, as he faces a searching examination under oath today over the deadly debacle of Labor’s $2.8 billion Home Insulation Program.

    hahahaha
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labor-party-ministers-hang-kevin-rudd-out-to-dry-at-batts-inquiry/story-fn59niix-1226916607710

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  14. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Why have Newstalkzb not mentioned the latest poll . . . they had the Roy Morgan poll lead news item . . . has Komrad Little told them what to run as well, or is it the bias that has infiltrated our media at fore once again?

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  15. jcuk (622 comments) says:

    Personally I am sick of the opposition’s hunting of Juddith Collins and it re-enforces my view they are not fit to be in Government

    HJ … form ? … do you mean farm?

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  16. kowtow (7,846 comments) says:

    Beige badger says we got a good insight into Cunners’ at home.

    That story was rehearsed ,stage managed and dreadfully stilted.

    It gave us as much insight into Cunner’s as a Stalinist show farm gave to Soviet agriculture and the editing and presentations of both are comparable.

    If he does believe in “the people”,then we’ll be seeing a lot more binding referenda from Labour ,yeah right.These people are top down social engineers who despise “the people”.They bully and impose.

    They only care about their agenda.

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  17. kowtow (7,846 comments) says:

    Talking of the looneys who now run us and the social agenda of “equality” and all the madness that implies ,here’s a bit more from the cultural marxists in Britain.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2627226/Call-female-teachers-SIR-demand-feminist-academics-bid-end-sexist-culture-classroom.html

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  18. martinh (1,163 comments) says:

    Kea
    I dont have any fellow labour voters.
    I just think Nick is not up to the job.
    Do you not want your ministers who make decisions for your country to be capable of keeping their cool and answering a question instead of denying what they themselves said on the news last night?
    I want better than that BS

    All im saying is that he is a weak link under stress so needs the chop

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  19. Viking2 (11,215 comments) says:

    Martinh.
    Couldn’t agree more. Should have been gone years ago.

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  20. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    martinh, maybe so, but I invite you to take a step back. His electorate is a natural fit with Labour/Greens. If Nick goes there is a good chance National will go with it.

    Then you will face the specter of …

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  21. Viking2 (11,215 comments) says:

    Kea.
    He hasn’t always won that electorate eh. But then you know that don’t you. He won the last one.

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  22. tvb (4,229 comments) says:

    Yes a good point about the new Green bank which will invest in all sorts of crony projects that get dished up. It will be crony capitalism underwritten by the taxpayer to the tune of millions and millions of dollars.

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  23. hj (6,593 comments) says:

    Treasury WP 14/11 |
    Housing Affordability: Lessons from the United States

    M ai n F i n d i n g s
    Over the last two decades New Zealand experienced a threefold increase in housing
    prices. The largest surge in housing prices in recent years occurred between 1998 and
    2007, a period of housing price growth in many developed economies. Since 2007,
    housing price growth remained flat until 2011, and then prices once again embarked on
    an upward trend. However, recent housing price growth has been concentrated in
    Auckland and Christchurch.
    The purpose of this report is to compare and contrast New Zealand housing trends and
    policies with those of United States (US). The main findings of the report are summarized
    here:
     Global forces, which were heavily influenced by US monetary policies and lending
    regimes, led to significant housing price increases in the US, New Zealand and many
    other countries during the 1998-2007 period. Between 2008 and 2012, US housing
    prices tumbled in the housing market collapse, whereas New Zealand prices were flat
    during the same period.
     Housing markets now appear to be recovering in the US, and prices in New Zealand
    are also trending upward. However, the recent rise in prices in New Zealand is driven
    by the Auckland and Christchurch markets; housing prices elsewhere are stable.
     Auckland housing pressure is partially the result of international in-migration and
    limitations in the ability of housing supply to quickly respond to demand.
     Christchurch conditions are the result of housing supply problems resulting from the
    earthquakes in 2010 and 2011.
     In the US, differences in regional housing price pressures are driven by population
    growth coupled with supply constraints due to terrain, bodies of water and land use
    regulations.
     US cities that are more similar to Auckland (high amenities, growing populations and
    physical land constraints) experienced relatively high rates of housing price growth;
    even if Auckland’s housing supply could quickly match demand, population growth
    coupled with income-driven demand for amenities within a constrained land
    environment can result in rising land values and thus housing prices.
     Appropriate responses to land value increases should be a combination of increased
    urban density and new development on the periphery. However, in an effort to
    preserve their quality of life, existing residents often impose restrictive land-use
    regulations through their local governments. This constrains housing supply and thus
    exacerbates the housing affordability challenge.

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  24. martinh (1,163 comments) says:

    Kea
    he can still be a electorate Mp,
    just not a minister,i dont want to ever hear a display like that again.
    Everytime i see him now i will know what hes capable of being like, similar to Judiths problem

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  25. RF (1,318 comments) says:

    To be fair igm… Mike Hosking gave the Labour Party via the old tusker King a serve about their poor poll result this morning. Mike and Larry Williams appear to be the only good guys on News Talk ZB these days.

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  26. hj (6,593 comments) says:

    jcuk (542 comments) says:

    HJ … form ? … do you mean farm?
    …..
    form and farm.

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  27. martinh (1,163 comments) says:

    RF
    Good i might try and listen back to that.
    Danny Watson and Kerre give me a bit of the creeps

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  28. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    hj, Housing prices rising is NOT a recovery.

    How can a continuation of the very thing that caused the global financial collapse and bankrupted the US be a “recovery” ?

    There was no “housing boom”. There was a flood of money into the market causing inflation. The rest is all bullshit.

    “Global forces, which were heavily influenced by US monetary policies and lending
    regimes, led to significant housing price increases in the US, New Zealand and many
    other countries during the 1998-2007 period.”

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  29. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Kea.
    He hasn’t always won that electorate eh. But then you know that don’t you. He won the last one.

    Viking, no I did not know that. When did he last lose ?

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  30. martinh (1,163 comments) says:

    Kea
    Yeah i agree
    Some people are going to be burnt bad by this if it turns, and i worry about that as they have no option, either buy and risk taking a loss or pay rent and never have the security of ownership.
    People are already being burnt by having to pay such high mortgages and now their interest rates are going up and Len is going to slam them next year when rate are reevaluated

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  31. Concerned (40 comments) says:

    Jamie Whyte made a good fist of debunking some of the standard left arguments as put to him by Colin Espiner this morning. He’s becoming more sure-footed with the media.

    Watch this space.

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  32. RF (1,318 comments) says:

    Martinh. The one that worries me the most is the screech owl Corkery who is on with another lefty ? Roxburgh on Sunday nights… She gives me an anal fistula.. Believe me they are painful !!!!!!

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  33. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Len is going ot slam them next year when rate are reevaluated

    martinh I am told there is a way around PAYING YOUR RATES :)

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  34. hj (6,593 comments) says:

    Treasury WP 14/11 |
    Housing Affordability: Lessons from the United States

    Several recent studies of US land and housing values may be of particular relevance for
    the current New Zealand situation. The first is that of Gyourko, et al. (2008) who used
    information collected from a survey of local governments to create a land regulation index
    (the Wharton Residential Land Use Regulatory Index). They show that restrictive land use
    regulations are not necessarily present in places with higher population densities. Rather,
    more restrictive environments are related to the desire of higher income households to
    preserve a low density quality of life. This study also suggests that housing prices tend to
    be driven up by more restrictive regulatory environments.
    Saiz (2010) uses satellite-generated data on terrain elevation and the presence of water
    bodies to ascertain the amount of land available for development in urban areas around
    the US. His research shows that regions most constrained by geography tend to have the
    most inelastic housing supply, and thus higher housing prices. In the case of New
    Zealand, as population pressures mount the terrain and bodies of water (particularly in
    Auckland and Wellington) could very well generate inelastic housing supply.
    Albouy and Ehrlich (2012) estimate the relationship between urban land values and the
    price of residential housing. Specifically, they use information from the American
    Community Survey to estimate housing price differentials across US metro areas. They
    also use construction cost index data and construction wage data to estimate the
    determinants of housing costs. Albouy and Ehrlich (2012) report that the average cost
    share of land is about one-third; however, the share varies from 10 to 50 percent from
    areas where land is cheap to where land is expensive. They also find that housing costs
    increase when land use regulations and geographic constraints are significant. In related
    work, Albouy (2009) shows that in many US urban areas the differential between
    undeveloped land and developed land on the fringe is about equal to the cost of
    converting agricultural land into development (i.e., the costs of infrastructure).
    Recent research on the Auckland housing market by Grimes and Liang (2009) and Zheng
    (2013) examined the land price differential between undeveloped land just outside
    Auckland’s metropolitan urban limit (MUL) and just inside the MUL. Their estimates show
    a substantial price differential: land just outside the MUL was up to nine times less
    valuable than land just inside the MUL. This finding provides evidence that Auckland’s
    MUL is a binding constraint and places pressure on land prices within the MUL. Further,
    the MUL may be forcing a “leap frog” development pattern, where the MUL constraint
    22
    results in a less coherent regional development pattern.

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  35. minus (147 comments) says:

    MPs do not have to declare travel costs met by a government or parliament if they are on an official parliamentary visit. Ms Collins was on a ministerial trip to investigate justice issues.

    Winston was Foreign Affairs Minister long enough and traveled enough as Minister [mostly to visit U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice it seemed] to know that his documents yesterday were no “smoking gun” but blanks.
    He was wasting the time of Parliament
    And his typical nation-wide build-up crashed as it deserved to do.

    Many media commentators seem to think Winston should leave the winebox alone.
    Not so Vaovasamanaia now :-(

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  36. hj (6,593 comments) says:

    Potential Policy Solutions
    The report offers a discussion of several policy options, including a brief evaluation of the
    formation of the Auckland Super City, which is a substantial change in governance
    structure that may have significant implications for development in the coming years.
    However, it is it too early to fully assess these changes. Policy options centre on better
    aligning the incentives of local authorities to regional and national housing needs.
    Options discussed include:
     Introduce new incentives, subsidies and other policies at the local level to increase
    density and expand development from the urban center to the periphery.
     Local governments can reduce the substantial uncertainty/risk borne by developers
    by cutting the length and variability in time to obtain regulatory consent. In addition,
    both subnational and central governments could take on shares of the risks
    associated with the financing of infrastructure, particularly for larger development
    projects.
    Increase the costs of holding undeveloped property for speculative purposes by
    implementing a land value tax at the local and/or national levels.
     Use locally targeted capital requirements as determined by the Reserve Bank of
    New Zealand to temporarily take the heat off demand so as to enable supply to
    respond to long-run housing demand pressures.

     Promote development in Auckland region satellite communities (matched with
    coherent transportation infrastructure planning) in order to relieve pressures on the
    Auckland core.
     Strengthen other urban areas such as Christchurch so as to provide options to those
    who desire the benefits of living in highly urbanized areas.

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  37. calendar girl (1,193 comments) says:

    ” Mike and Larry Williams appear to be the only good guys on News Talk ZB these days.”

    You exclude Leighton Smith? (He would be horrified – with justification).

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  38. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    hj, What would a house cost if there was no such thing as credit ?

    Remember there would be no such thing as interest either…

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  39. Pete George (23,128 comments) says:

    Winston says he had the flu yesterday which is why he mumbled and stumbled and leaned and shook and sweated.

    Winston Peters blames flu for shaky show

    NZ First leader Winston Peters blamed the flu after he turned in a shambling appearance in Parliament and MPs publicly questioned his health.

    The veteran politician, 69, displayed shaking hands and slurred speech yesterday as he attempted to catch out Prime Minister John Key with new allegations about Justice Minister Judith Collins.

    And at a press conference after he was ejected from the House, Peters was sweating profusely, wiping his face with a handkerchief. A spokeswoman later said that he was suffering from the flu.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10041825/Winston-Peters-blames-flu-for-shaky-show

    He seems to have been worse than usual.

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  40. Ashley Schaeffer (429 comments) says:

    martinh (958 comments) says:
    May 14th, 2014 at 9:02 am
    RF
    Good i might try and listen back to that.
    Danny Watson and Kerre give me a bit of the creeps

    Danny Watson and Kerre give me a bit of the shits.

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  41. minus (147 comments) says:

    Obama Is Negotiating the Biggest Trade Deal in Human History – It Would Gouge the American Economy

    May 12, 2014
    Right now – the Obama administration is negotiating the biggest trade deal in human history. If approved – The Trans-Pacific Partnership – or TPP for short – would create a whole new set of rules regulating the economies of twelve countries on four different continents bordering the Pacific Ocean. While TPP is its official acronym, because it’s a deal that involves Southern Hemisphere Asian countries as well as us and others, I prefer, instead of TPP, to call it the “Southern Hemisphere Asian Free Trade Agreement” or SHAFTA. 

    Because SHAFTA or the TPP is being negotiated almost entirely in secret – we don’t know a lot about it – and what we do know comes almost entirely from leaks. And according to those leaks – the TPP/SHAFTA would give big pharmaceutical companies virtual monopoly patent power - it would let corporations sue countries in international courts over regulations that those corporations don’t like - and and it would gut American environmental and financial rules. The TPP/SHAFTA is a huge deal – the type of story about which the media should be informing the American people. But here’s the problem: almost no one in the mainstream media is talking about it.

    Bring in some measure that is a “fat / sugar tax” and McDonalds, Coke [who contribute to diabetes] and big pharmaceutical corporations [medications that control, but don't cure diabetes] can sue the New Zealand Governement.

    Here we are, about to enter an once-in-a-generation economy-changing free trade deal, and the people who are supposed to be telling us the truth are either silent or on the side of giant multinational corporations. Americans deserve to know what their government and big business are doing together behind closed doors.

    Shit! If the Americans are worried about this, what should we be doing?

    Will Imperial Tobacco Group shift head office from London to USA so they can sue the pants off Tutiana Turia? Ahhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaa …. :-(

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  42. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    Everyone is bloody tip-toeing round the fact that the balloon pilot had Cannabis in his system! (and was seen having a joint before take-off)
    If he was swilling whiskey before he flew that balloon into those power lines there would quite rightly be a bloody uproar! But seemingly nobody wants to admit that Cannabis isn’t the ‘harmless drug’ it’s advocates are relentlessly promoting it as…

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  43. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    “Manawatu Standard”, Labour’s mouthpiece of the area, has started attempting to discredit the aspiring National MP, posting only comments of negativity against him, and positives for the effeminate Labour MP. They are a disgrace to media, and are classic examples of political bias. Hear they are on borrowed time . . . sooner it goes the better!

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  44. Ross12 (1,211 comments) says:

    igm

    I don’t doubt your comments about the Manawatu Standard but I had to wonder yesterday how Liam Hehir got his column passed the editor ??

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  45. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    Peter George, re Winston’s” shaky” show.Should that “shaky ‘be “shonky.?”

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  46. Mrs Trellis (34 comments) says:

    The flu?….. my arse. Man flu maybe….

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  47. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Long knifes you have been beating this drum since the accident happened
    It is not about if he had detectable amounts of cannabis in his blood. it is only relevent if he smoked less than three hours before the flight.
    Alcohol has an measurable effect of up to a week after drinking even though it’s totally undetectable in your system after that long Cannabis has no detectable effect after three hours yet can show up in your blood two weeks later..
    I bet you would not be moaning so loudly if he had hit the piss two or three days before the flight yet that is far more dangerous

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  48. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    assuming for just one moment that Collins committed a misdemeanour, can someone please explain what LAW OF THE LAND (as Peters describes it) has been broken. Please quote the Statute.

    The law of the land and statute law are two different things. The law of the land is described as the practice and consent of the people (i.e. the common law), it is not the same as the civil law used by the state.

    Edit: flipper, do you have a source for this?

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  49. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    Ugly, he was asking a question about the actual laws of New Zealand, not the laws in the delusional fantasy world you dwell in.

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  50. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    :lol:
    Piss drinkers….

    To drinkfucked to realise the evil of their drug. Alcohol is far more destructive and dangerous than pot by a large margin.

    legalize pot and stop the piss fueled damage that full our hospitals jails and mortuary

    Every day some one dies from alcohol in this country.

    No one has died of pot Yet … ever…… in the whole wide world….

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  51. publicwatchdog (2,196 comments) says:

    When is anyone else going to make a HUGE fuss and ask the real smoking gun question of the Minister for CORRUPTION (oops!) ‘Justice’ Judith Collins?

    Why has Judith Collins much vaunted ‘Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill’ not yet surfaced in the House?

    How many people know that NZ ‘perceived’ to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ (along with Denmark, according to the 2013 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’) has STILL not yet ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC)?

    NZ can’t yet ratify UNCAC, because our domestic anti-corruption legislative framework is not yet in place.

    Which is what Judith Collins’ ‘Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill’ is supposed to fix.

    (I’ve asked both Judith Collins and the Prime Minister this question under the OIA:)

    Here it is – read it for yourselves (if you haven’t already :)
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________

    7 May 2014

    ‘Open Letter’ /OIA request to Prime Minister John Key :

    “Why has New Zealand STILL not yet ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC)?”

    Dear Prime Minister,

    Please be reminded that according to the 2013 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’, New Zealand, (along with Denmark) is ‘perceived’ to be the least corrupt country in the world.

    http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/

    However, New Zealand is still one of a handful of countries which has STILL not ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC).

    (UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC)

    http://www.unodc.org/documents/treaties/UNCAC/Publications/Convention/08-50026_E.pdf

    (Signatories to the UN Convention Against Corruption

    https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/treaties/CAC/signatories.html

    ________________________________________________

    In a letter to Transparency International New Zealand (TINZ), dated 7 August 2013, your Minister of Justice Judith Collins stated:

    “New Zealand ratification of the United Nations Convention Against Corruption

    Thank you for your correspondence of 31 May 2013 to myself, Hon Murray McCully, and Hon Tim Groser regarding New Zealand’s ratification of the United Nations Convention Against Corruption.

    Like you, I also believe that ratifying UNCAC would be advantageous. Ratification of the Convention is important to ensure New Zealand retains its international reputation for transparency, integrity, and trustworthiness, which can have flow-on economic benefits for the country.

    It is for these reasons that I have announced a package of legislative reforms that will allow New Zealand to ratify UNCAC. the reforms will be progressed as part of an Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Bill which I intend to introduce into Parliament later in 2013.

    As you may be aware, it is the policy of the New Zealand Government that binding treaty actions such as ratification is not taken until New Zealand’s domestic law is compliant with the treaty obligations. As you state in your letter, only minor amendments are necessary to bring New Zealand into compliance with the UNCAC obligations.

    The Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Bill will contain the required amendments.
    After the Bill is passed and the changes are enacted, officials will promptly take steps to deposit New Zealand’s instrument of ratification of UNCAC.

    Yours sincerely,

    Hon Judith Collins
    Minister of Justice.”
    ___________________________________________

    NZ Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill

    http://www.transparency.org.nz/docs/2013/Hon-Judith-Collins-Minister-of-Justice-Letter-to-TINZ.pdf

    Your Minister of Justice Judith Collins’ press release of 18 October 2013:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1310/S00301/bill-supports-zero-tolerance-for-organised-crime.htm

    Bill supports zero-tolerance for organised crime
    Friday, 18 October 2013, 10:03 am
    Press Release: New Zealand Government
    Hon Judith Collins

    Minister of Justice

    18 October 2013 Media Statement

    Bill supports zero-tolerance for organised crime

    Justice Minister Judith Collins says the Government’s comprehensive approach to fighting all forms of organised crime will help safeguard New Zealand’s economy, international reputation and public safety.

    This month a number of international bodies are evaluating New Zealand’s compliance with international standards related to financial crimes – including the OECD, which will report on New Zealand’s compliance with an international convention to combat bribery of foreign public officials.

    “I welcome the release of these reports.

    This Government takes all forms of organised crime and corruption very seriously,” Ms Collins says.

    ________________________________________________

    http://www.3news.co.nz/New-laws-to-fight-organised-crime/tabid/1607/articleID/317781/Default.aspx

    New laws to fight organised crime
    Friday 18 Oct 2013 10:33a.m.

    The Government will bring in a bill before the end of the year to strengthen laws against money laundering, identity theft, human trafficking and corruption.

    Justice Minister Judith Collins says she intends to have a comprehensive set of laws in place to fight all forms of organised crime.

    “It’s important to consider bribery and corruption within the big picture of organised crime, which undermines public safety, national security, economic development and good governance,” she said today.
    “This bill will help ensure New Zealand maintains its reputation as a responsible international citizen and that our domestic law enforcement agencies have the tolls they need to fight all forms of organised crime.”
    _______________________________________________

    Unfortunately, it is now May 2014, and your Minister of Justice Judith Collins’ Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Bill, has STILL not been presented to Parliament:

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/legislation/bills/?Criteria.Keyword=Organised+Crime+and+Anti-Corruption+Legislation+Bill%2C&Criteria.Timeframe=&Criteria.Parliament=-1&Criteria.DocumentType=&Criteria.Status=&Search=Go

    Legislation
    Bills
    This section lists bills before the House and its committees, and provides access to more detailed information about each one. You will also find the schedule of divided bills and progress of legislationhere. To find out more about bills before select committees, see the committee business summary.

    Close Bills search
    ………………..
    No documents were found
    ________________________________________________

    OFFICIAL INFORMATION ACT REQUEST:

    Please provide the information which explains why Minister of Justice Judith Collins’ ‘Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Bill’, has STILL not been presented to Parliament.

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

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  52. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    No one has died of pot Yet … ever…… in the whole wide world….

    Or have they ?……… :)

    brain–dead adjective \ˈbrān-ˌded\ medical : showing no sign of activity in the brain : having no brain function

    : very stupid : not able to function normally
    : characterized by brain death
    2: lacking intelligence or vitality

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brain-dead

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  53. RightNow (6,777 comments) says:

    Kea, it’s not politically correct to call griff a brain dead retard.

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  54. stigie (963 comments) says:

    “No one has died of pot Yet … ever…… in the whole wide world….”

    I know i will get heaps of down ticks, but Griff is dead right on this one !~

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  55. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    ….”Every day some one dies from alcohol in this country.

    No one has died of pot Yet … ever…… in the whole wide world”….

    The best idea is to make alcohol illegal, just the same as marijuana. Then no one is at risk.

    There you go you know it all pissheads……FIFY.

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  56. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Kea
    typical
    Get stoned and it wears of no long-term effect….. after a few years no difference between ex heavy smoker and normal person
    get pissed and the brain dies…. permanently. every time you drink you kill more brain cells go look at the local city mission and see the dribbling alkyl addicts
    Or for you kea look in the mirror and see the dribble

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  57. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    RightNow, indulging griff in his delusional state will not assist in his recovery. Our very ambitious goal is for griff to one day function in mainstream society, with a massive support network around him of course. The KB community is very caring and patient, but griff must learn not everyone is like us :)

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  58. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Right now still butt hurting I see
    nothing like a wingnut who has learnt he’s an idiot.

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  59. publicwatchdog (2,196 comments) says:

    minus (59 comments) says:

    May 14th, 2014 at 9:11 am

    MPs do not have to declare travel costs met by a government or parliament if they are on an official parliamentary visit.
    Ms Collins was on a ministerial trip to investigate justice issues.

    __________________________________________________________________________________________________

    So – what the hell did her PRE-PLANNED visit/tour of Oravida facilities have to do with Judith Collins’ JUSTICE Ministerial portfolio???
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________

    FYI

    12 May 2014

    ‘Open Letter/OIA request to NZ Prime Minister John Key:

    “Where is the information that proves Minister of Justice Judith Collins informed Oravida that it ‘may not use any photos taken of the Minister at the event or to publicise the event’?

    NZ Prime Minister
    John Key

    Dear Prime Minister,

    Because your Minister of Justice Judith is currently on leave (at your request), I am referring this OIA to yourself.

    Please be reminded of the following provisions of the NZ Cabinet Manual:

    Specifically :

    “2.89 When accepting an invitation, a Minister should inform the organisation that it may not:

    (a) use any photos taken of the Minister at the event; or
    (b) publicise the event, ”

    http://cabinetmanual.cabinetoffice.govt.nz/files/manual.pdf

    Fees, endorsements, and outside activities
    Product endorsement

    2.87 No Minister should endorse in any media any product or service. Ministers may, however, appear in party political advertisements or in non-political advertisements or announcements in the public interest (promoting, for example, water safety), where no fee would be expected or accepted.

    2.88 Ministers receive many invitations for events and speaking engagements. Ministers should carefully consider which invitations they will accept, and try to honour invitations from a variety of organisations.

    2.89 When accepting an invitation, a Minister should inform the organisation that it may not:

    (a) use any photos taken of the Minister at the event; or
    (b) publicise the event,

    2.90 In speeches, it is appropriate for a Minister to speak positively about the objectives and achievements of an organisation or business.
    It is not appropriate for a Minister to explicitly promote that organisation, or its products or services.

    Fees and other payments

    2.91 Ministers often appear at conferences or other gatherings to explain and discuss government policies and plans. This is an integral function of government, for which the state would expect to meet expenses and no appearance fee would be expected or accepted.

    2.92 If an appearance fee or other personal payment for any non-ministerial activity is offered to a Minister, the Minister may accept it only with the agreement of the Prime Minister.

    Such a payment must be declared in that member’s annual disclosure of pecuniary interests. Unsolicited payments should be returned. With the agreement of the Prime Minister, fees may be accepted and donated directly to a recognised charity, but must still be declared (with an explanatory note).
    Ministers of the Crown: Appointment and Role 31

    2.84 Although cultural gifts may be offered to a Minister with the best of intentions, accepting such gifts may create a perception of a conflict of interest or accusations of “double dipping”. Ministers should return gifts of cash immediately, with a respectful statement explaining that they honour the intent behind the gift, but that it is their job to serve, and that they are already well remunerated for their work.

    2.85 Acceptance of other cultural gifts such as fine mats or food is unlikely to create the same perception problems. The guidance in paragraphs 2.78 – 2.79 should be followed in such cases.

    ____________________________________________________________

    ‘The event’ being the ‘Visit and Tour of the Oravida Facilities on 23 October 2014, (as described on pg 83 and 84 in the following PDF)

    http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/1405/020520141724330001.pdf

    Please provide the information which confirms that your Minister of Justice Judith Collins, informed Oravida

    ” that it may not:

    (a) use any photos taken of the Minister at the event; or

    (b) publicise the event”

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright

    Attendee: 2009 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2010 Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2013 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate (polled 4th with 11,723 votes, campaigning against corrupt corporate control of the Auckland region)

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  60. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    Ugly, he was asking a question about the actual laws of New Zealand, not the laws in the delusional fantasy world you dwell in.

    I see you’re still slandering other posters, Shawn Lee Herles. Are all Anglicans hypocrites like you are?

    Common law came to New Zealand with the English settlers.

    lex terre: The law of the land. The common law, or the due course of the common law; the general law of the land. Equivalent to “due process of law”. In the strictest sense, trial by oath; the privilege of making oath. (Blacks 5th)

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  61. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    “No one has died of pot Yet … ever…… in the whole wide world…”

    Apart from those eleven souls who died horrendous deaths in Carterton?
    What about those killed in car crashes, suicides etc ??

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  62. Don the Kiwi (1,633 comments) says:

    “No one has died of pot Yet … ever…… in the whole wide world….”

    Griff – I call bullshit on that comment.

    20 years ago when I owned a roofing company, I had a young guy contracting to me – he used to smoke dope a lot, sometimes during work. If I caught him on site smoking, I would make him knock off, because his workmanship deteriorated terribly. But he smoked it all the time when he was not at work.

    When he was 23, he died from throat cancer, brought on purely from smoking dope, according to the specialists.

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  63. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    The tide has turned.

    Progress :)

    The cemetery has been relocated, the houses abandoned, the shop windows boarded up and the main street is deserted.

    The tiny western German ghost town of Immerath is making room for the hungry excavators of one of the country’s biggest coal mines.

    In this rural area wedged between the Ruhr metropolitan area and the Dutch border, Immerath and nearby towns will soon be wiped off the map to allow energy giant RWE to enlarge its huge open-pit lignite mine of Garzweiler.

    Producing coal is once again lucrative amid a sluggish market for CO2 certificates. Lignite extracted at Garzweiler directly feeds the RWE plants, which are belching white smoke into the sky.

    The site of Garzweiler I, in operation since 1983, has had its day. It is being filled in progressively with earth dug out of Garzweiler II, which will measure 48 square kilometres.

    “As an unintended side effect of Germany’s “energy transition”, the pollutant coal accounts for 40 percent of electricity production in the country, against 25 percent on average in Europe.”

    http://www.thelocal.de/20130908/51811

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  64. RightNow (6,777 comments) says:

    griffith (939 comments) says:
    May 14th, 2014 at 11:48 am

    Right now still butt hurting I see

    Oh did you give me some sort of butt hurt? I didn’t notice.
    Next time let me know when you’re in and I’ll pretend to scream in pain.

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  65. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    No one has died from medical complications that result from consuming marijuana Longknives….what they do under the influence is another question. Note that it’s not illegal to drink alcohol but it cannot be used to excuse resultant behaviour.

    Treat consumption of both the same or make both equally illegal.

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  66. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    nasska, We must be careful not to condemn cannabis due entirely to the tragic tale of griff.

    I am all for legalising it. Many boozers would be better off smokers.

    Though griff might be the rare exception of a doper better off drinking ! ;)

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  67. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    I see you’re still slandering other posters, Shawn Lee Herles. Are all Anglicans hypocrites like you are?

    UglyTruth,

    Posting people’s real names when they have chosen not to do so themselves is nasty, bullying behaviour. Examine your motivations.

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  68. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    Ryan, Shawn posted the information himself, and slandering people deserves an appropriate response.

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  69. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    Griff & I generally only disagree when it comes to discussing the weather Kea. :)

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  70. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Green Revolution? German Brown Coal Power Output Hits New High

    …But new figures show that coal power output in 2013 reached its highest level in more than 20 years.

    Energy Paradox

    The increase in coal-generated power also led to a new record in German electricity exports to around 33 billion kilowatt hours. “In 2013 Germany exported more power than it imported on eight out of 10 days. Most of it was generated by from brown coal and anthracite power stations,

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/researchers-alarmed-at-rise-in-german-brown-coal-power-output-a-942216.html

    [ The funny part is the type of coal they are using is the filthiest kind that still actually burns :) ]

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  71. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Ugly, “outing” people on KB is something DPF is very hot on. It is bad form buddy. Stop it.

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  72. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    He outed himself when he posted it, Kea. Shawn is a lying hypocrite, people should know that.

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  73. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    UglyTruth, It is not me you need to convince. It is DPF.

    “Shawn is a lying hypocrite”

    I don’t care. He should be allowed to say what he likes.

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  74. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    The Herald questions the credibility of journalists who are current/former members or current/former supporters of political parties.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11254321

    It’s a long list of people who might take that personally.

    Many on talk back radio. Paul Henry ex National candidate. Pete George, no longer associated with United, Cameron Slater self styled journalist or is that former journalist?

    Of course the term commentator can be distinguished from the profession of journalism.

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  75. iMP (2,301 comments) says:

    Is Winston more than flu sick? This is relevant, as he may decide NZ’s next government. Come on NZ news media. Do your job and find out. Was he drunk, or does he have an aging disorder (other than his allergy to truth)? Is he competent?

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  76. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    He should be allowed to say what he likes.

    Free speech does not come without consequences. If the asshole continues to slander people he’s going to get a reaction.

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  77. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    UglyTruth

    Far be it from me to confirm or deny your description of Shawn but I must take you up on your spelling.

    The NZ vernacular promotes “arsehole” as opposed to the Americanism “asshole”.

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  78. stigie (963 comments) says:

    “Treat consumption of both the same or make both equally illegal.”

    Or you could make both legal Nasska, then it might not clog up hospitals on Friday/ Saturday nights perhaps !

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  79. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    UglyTruth, Free speech is sacred in my view. People decide for themselves what to think. People might have good reason for not using their real name. They should be allowed that indulgence. I am more interested in what they say, not who says it.

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  80. lilman (909 comments) says:

    Penny corruption is measured differently by many persons.

    Me I would say pay your rates .

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  81. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    Hi Ryan,

    and Kea,

    Thanks for the defense, but it’s fine. I have posted my full name here before, so I’m not at all bothered. I have no need to hide behind a pseudonym, though I understand some people have legit reasons for doing so.

    Ugly,

    Parliament makes the laws in NZ and always has, and no amount of delusional conspiracy theory changes that.

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  82. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    http://polity.co.nz/content/key-meh-maybe-i-lied-parliament

    “The [MFAT] paperwork shows right through this that not only did the Minister have a very busy programme, which the member wants to gloss over, all on judicial and justice issues, but, secondly, all the way through it talks about a private dinner.” ~ John Key

    “how does he explain the email exchanges as late as 16 October where the Minister’s office is asking why the dinner is not included in the official visit programme?” ~ Grant Robertson

    “It was a generalisation. Maybe I should have said “most of the way through”.” ~ John Key

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  83. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “Shawn is a lying hypocrite, people should know that.”

    Disagreeing with your whackjob conspiracy theories does not make anyone a liar or a hypocrite. It makes them sane.

    Anyway, that’s enough time spent on you today. :)

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  84. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    The good news keeps flooding in from around the world. NZ is a bit behind the curve, but eventually we will catch up with the modern trends emerging in more developed countries. I hope Key gets to work on this straight after the election. We could be world leaders in economically viable energy production with our Coal, Gas & Oil reserves, combined with hydro power.

    European Green Movement on Verge of Collapse Due to Failed Climate Change and Global Warming Policies Say Friends of Science

    Dr. Benny Peiser of the UK Global Warming Policy Foundation reports that EU energy prices have skyrocketed, families have been forced into energy poverty; meanwhile the EU carbon market has collapsed with no evidence of healthier environment or ‘abundant’ green jobs, so European manufacturing is fleeing to places with cheaper energy prices in order to remain competitive.

    “For the first time in 10 years, Europe is no longer willing to pursue the green agenda,” said Dr. Benny Peiser of the Global Warming Policy Foundation UK

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/5/prweb10694307.htm

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  85. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    ….”Or you could make both legal”….

    That is my personal preference stigie but the conservatives & nanny statists who frequent these forums know better than everyone else what is good for us.

    Just like Clarkula & her merry band of social engineers but without the warmth, understanding & human compassion.

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  86. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    UT,
    shawn a lying hypocrite . In your onion of course.!

    Your now our in residence comments policeman.?

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  87. iMP (2,301 comments) says:

    “No one has ever died of cannabis”? Riii-ght. How about “brain dead”?

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  88. publicwatchdog (2,196 comments) says:

    ‘Littleman’ – I suggest you don’t use words that you don’t know the meaning of?

    When it comes to the words ‘CORRUPT’ or ‘CORRUPTION’ you obviously don’t have a clue.

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

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  89. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Right often.

    Most of your posts since you stopped the daily climate change conspriowhacky denial of old have been attempts to kick me. pretty obvious why ….Eh
    :lol:

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  90. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    The grand old conservative regime.

    Deity, natural law and unchangeable across time common law good.
    Accountability of the Crown sovereign to parliament and the people and government making (legislation) law bad.

    Thus of course Ugly cannot find a theism he is not attracted to, even if all of the practitioners in Judaism, Christianity and Islam do so wrongly in his eyes.

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  91. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “Just like Clarkula & her merry band of social engineers but without the warmth, understanding & human compassion.”

    Best comedy of the day so far! :)

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  92. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    SPC,

    Common law was never unchangeable across time. Like all law it evolved.

    And Ugly wouldn’t know real Traditionalist Conservatism if he fell over it in broad daylight.

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  93. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    U T, meanwhile the latest on MH 370 from Truther la la land.?

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  94. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    Parliament makes the laws in NZ and always has

    The legislation is not binding on the ordinary people of New Zealand. It is only binding on persons.

    The law making process used by the state is based on fictions, the fiction that parliament is sovereign, and a fictional description of the common law.

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/about-parliament/how-parliament-works/fact-sheets/00HOOOCPubResAboutFactSheetsWhat1/parliament-brief-what-is-parliament

    Parliament is recognised as sovereign (the highest authority) in the law-making process because it is accountable to the people. However, it is not the sole lawmaker. The courts need to establish what is known as the ‘common law’ or ‘judge-made law’ to fill gaps where existing law is not clear.

    http://www.bennion.co.nz/mlr/2003/mlr0803.pdf

    “It now seems widely accepted as a matter of colonial law and international law that those proclamations approved by the Crown and the gazetting of the acquisition of New Zealand by the Crown in the London Gazette on 2 October 1840 authoritatively established Crown sovereignty over New Zealand.”

    NZ Maori Council v Attorney General [1987] 1 NZLR 641 (Court of Appeal)

    http://actsinjunction.info/nzsov.html

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  95. stigie (963 comments) says:

    “No one has ever died of cannabis”? Riii-ght. How about “brain dead”?

    Not too sure about ‘brain dead”…. impaired for sure, but a lot less than the booze !!~

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  96. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    U T, meanwhile the latest on MH 370

    I hear the Zionist are putting out a new cookbook for Nasi Goreng & Chicken Legs :)

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  97. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “The legislation is not binding on the ordinary people of New Zealand. It is only binding on persons.”

    LMAO! :) :) :)

    I’ll let that little doozy speak for itself!

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  98. hj (6,593 comments) says:

    der dit! der-dit! der-dit! der-dit-der-dit-der-dit…DIT!!!!!!!!!!! [Jaws Theme}

    YOURRRRRR… GONNA GET ITTTT!

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  99. Lance (2,529 comments) says:

    So pot doesn’t kill????
    Are you seriously saying that someone loaded on THC is not a hazard while driving, and has never resulted in road deaths?

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  100. ciaron (1,349 comments) says:

    The legislation is not binding on the ordinary people of New Zealand. It is only binding on persons.

    There must be some super special legal definition where people aren’t persons… :s

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  101. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    shawn a lying hypocrite . In your onion of course.!

    No, not in my onion, stevieboy.

    “He promotes on the internet vile, filthy anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli lies”
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/05/general_debate_8_may_2014.html#comment-1318208

    “Where are the lies that you allege of me, ShawnLH?”
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/05/general_debate_8_may_2014.html#comment-1318370

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  102. stigie (963 comments) says:

    Has your house been auctioned off yet Penny ?

    Attendee:- 1960 Ekatahuna Massey Ferguson pulling competition.

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  103. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    hj, Those advancing glaciers are a global problem, but more so in Antarctica where they are covering up valuable oil fields.

    The time to act is now !!! We need to put those well heads in place and start pumping :)

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  104. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    I’ll let that little doozy speak for itself!

    It is supported by the courts contradicting parliament over sovereignty. Sovereignty is typically considered to be essential within the law making process.

    http://actsinjunction.info/nzsov.html

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  105. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    There must be some super special legal definition where people aren’t persons…

    A man without rank is not a person:

    person: A man considered according to the rank he holds in society, with all the rights to which the place he holds entitles him, and the duties which it imposes. 1 Bouv. Inst. no. 137. A human being considered as capable of having rights and or being charged with duties, while a “thing” is the object over which rights may be exercised. (Black’s 2nd (1910))

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  106. alex Masterley (1,494 comments) says:

    I think things have moved on a bit from Blacks…..

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  107. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    UT,

    How does e.g the Treason Act 1351 fit in with your apparently peculiar take on Sovereign Law as a matter of interest.?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_Act_1351

    Divinely ordained or man made.?

    The penalty provision is the interesting part.!

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  108. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    hj, If we detonated a high level nuke over Antarctica it would melt back the ice and allow us to access the oil and goal reserves underneath the ice.

    Minimal fall out with atmospheric nukes, so no worries there. I can not see a down side to my plan.

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  109. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    Alex, governments are creations of people, and legal persons are creations of government. Assuming that people and persons have the same status leads to absurdity regarding responsibility.

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  110. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Ugly, so when did equality before the law confuse the legal responsibility of the person according to rank/class system?

    And anyhow how does “according to rank” exclude any of the people from being a person according to law? Who has ever lacked rank/place?

    If people create Crown government, then it was always accountable to they who made it. And thus was never sovereign in rule over the people.

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  111. alex Masterley (1,494 comments) says:

    Nope, you’ve lost me.
    If you want to engage in a discussion about jurisprudence Nigel Jamieson at the Otago University school of law is your man.

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  112. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Lance facts will always get in the way of your and the polices prejudice there is no evidence that pot causes traffic accidents
    stoned drivers have come out safer than sober drives in some testing!

    REFERENCE: UK Department of Environment, Transport and the Regions (Road Safety Division). 2000. Cannabis and Driving: A Review of the Literature and Commentary. Crowthorne, Berks: TRL Limited.
    http://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence

    “Overall, we conclude that the weight of the evidence indicates that:

    There is no evidence that consumption of cannabis alone increases the risk of culpability for traffic crash fatalities or injuries for which hospitalization occurs, and may reduce those risks.

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  113. publicwatchdog (2,196 comments) says:

    FYI – here are the overseas travel costs of Ministers listed on the ‘Register of Pecuniary and Other Specified Interests of
    Members of Parliament: Summary of annual returns as at 31 January 2014′ :

    http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/00CLOOCMPPFinInterests20141/2e04287ad20ee5da12a308149e59bb16d7f47ce5

    Hon Amy Adams (National, Selwyn)

    10 Overseas travel costs
    Singapore – Ministerial forum on ICT. Contributor to travel (business class
    airfare) and accommodation: Infocomm Development Authority of Singapore

    Hon Chester Borrows (National, Whanganui)

    10 Overseas travel costs

    Indonesia – attendance at Bali Democracy Forum. Contributor to accommodation, meals and internal travel: Government of the Republic of Indonesia

    Rt Hon David Carter (National, List)

    10 Overseas travel costs

    Hong Kong – guest of the Government of Hong Kong Special Administrative
    Region. Contributor to travel and accommodation: Hong Kong Economic and Trade Office.

    Hon Dr Jonathan Coleman (National, Northcote)

    10 Overseas travel costs

    Brunei: Asia Defence Ministers Meeting Plus (ADMM+). Contributor to
    accommodation: Government of Brunei Darussalam.
    Singapore: bilateral defence visit. Contributor to accommodation: Singapore
    Government.
    Vietnam: bilateral defence visit. Contributor to accommodation: Vietnam
    Government.
    China: bilateral defence visit. Contributor to travel (internal flight, Beijing to
    Nanjing) and accommodation: Chinese Government.

    Hon Bill English (National, Clutha-Southland)

    10 Overseas travel costs

    Australia – official visit to participate in the Australian Centre for Independent Studies conference. Contributor to travel and accommodation: The Centre for Independent Studies.
    United States – official visit to attend the International Monetary Fund and World Bank meetings in Washington. Contributor to travel and accommodation: World Bank in relation to attending the annual meeting of the Board of Governors.

    Hon Steven Joyce (National, List)

    10 Overseas travel costs

    China – travel related to Ministerial portfolios, accompanying the Prime Minister.
    Contributor to accommodation: Government of Peoples’ Republic of China.
    China – travel related to Ministerial portfolios. Contributor to accommodation:
    Shenzen Municipal Government.

    Rt Hon John Key (National, Helensville)

    10 Overseas travel costs

    Brazil – official visit
    Mexico – official visit
    Colombia – official visit
    Chile – official visit
    China – official visit
    Korea – official visit
    Solomon Islands – official visit
    Marshall Islands – official visit
    United Kingdom – official visit
    United States – official visit
    France – official visit
    Australia – official visit
    Brunei – official visit
    Indonesia – official visit
    Sri Lanka – official visit
    Thailand – official visit
    South Africa – official visit
    The primary expenses relating to all of this travel were funded by the Crown.
    Some accommodation, internal flights, and/or other incidental expenses were met by the host Government.

    Hon Dr Pita Sharples (Māori, Tāmaki Makaurau)

    10 Overseas travel costs

    China – Prime Minister’s Ministerial visit to mark the 40th anniversary of
    diplomatic relations with China. Contributor to travel and accommodation:
    Chinese host Government.

    Hon Michael Woodhouse (National, List)

    10 Overseas travel costs

    Indonesia – attendance at the Ministerial-level Special Conference on the Irregular Movements of Persons. Contributor to accommodation: Indonesian Government.

    Dr Jian Yang (National, List)

    10 Overseas travel costs

    China (x2) – National Party delegation. Contributor to domestic travel and
    accommodation: Chinese Government.
    China – leading a New Zealand youth delegation to China. Contributors to travel (business class airfare): NZ-China Friendship Society and MTS Energy Limited.
    Contributor to domestic travel and accommodation: Chinese Government

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright

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  114. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Why Pot Smokers Are Paranoid

    Paranoia is one of the most unpleasant “side effects” of marijuana. It’s also a key experience shared by marijuana smokers and people with schizophrenia. But exactly how does smoking a joint cause the feeling that dark forces are conspiring to do you wrong?

    http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/06/why-pot-smokers-are-paranoid/

    Profits !!! BIG OIL !!! End times !!!! :)

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  115. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    How does e.g the Treason Act 1351 fit in with your rather peculiar take on Sovereign Law as a matter of interest.?

    The act does not change the treasonous nature of acts of treachery, eg the betrayal of trust regarding lawful government.

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  116. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    UT, and the penalty in this instance Hanging, Drawing and Quartering . ? How does this fit into your scheme of things .?

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  117. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “He promotes on the internet vile, filthy anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli lies”

    Well that is certainly not a lie. Your well known for your rabid anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli propaganda.

    The only lying hypocrite in this is you Ugly.

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  118. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    Ugly, so when did equality before the law confuse the legal responsibility of the person according to rank/class system?

    When the assumption was made that all people are under the protection of the state. Within the civil system the primary function of the state is to provide protection, the problem arises when people who are independent of the state are deemed to be citizens. The system of rank is a primarily a military classification, but the police also have rank, i.e. constables and sergeants.

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  119. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    Well that is certainly not a lie.

    If it wasn’t a lie then you would have been able to substantiate your allegation by quoting something that I said which was an example of ” vile, filthy anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli lies”

    The reason that you cannot do it, Shawn, is that you are a lying sack of shit, and a hypocrite to boot.

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  120. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    UT, then who are those of military rank providing protection to, the continued Crown government rule over the people? And what realm was the Crown sovereign in and over, if not the territory of a “state” and a common people/citizens of a realm?

    So you distinguish between Crown rule by military rank/feudal order support network and a state where the state is the people in sovereignty, not an armed force occupying their territory?

    And you see next to deity, this Crown force and law as defiled by the peoples revolution to democracy, freedom of and from religion and the capacity to make new law independent of deity and unaccountable sovereign.

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  121. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “If it wasn’t a lie then you would have been able to substantiate your allegation by quoting something that I said which was an example of ” vile, filthy anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli lies””

    Everyone here has read your attacks on Zionism, your claims that most Jews are not real Jews, that Zionism is Satanic, and your attacks on Israel. They are a matter of record.

    Most people here have read them and at least two or three other people beside me have critiqued you on them.

    I could go and find a few, but the fact is they have been such a daily feature of the GD thread that everyone knows about them, AS DO YOU.

    To now deny them makes you the liar, and a hypocrite to boot,

    Your a coward Ugly. You don’t have the balls to post under you own name, and you deny (LIE) about posts you have made almost every day and every week without fail.

    Pathetic.

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  122. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    Here is an example UglyLyingHypocrite

    These are YOUR words UglyLiar:

    “Lucifer -> Babylon -> Edom -> Rothschilds -> Shield of David -> Hexagram -> Zionist flag”

    That is a perfect example promoting vile, filthy anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli lies.

    LIAR.

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  123. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    “Lucifer -> Babylon -> Edom -> Rothschilds -> Shield of David -> Hexagram -> Zionist flag”

    Whaaaat?

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  124. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    ShawnLH , do you really think Ugly hates Jews ?. I don’t. Ugly entertains some very confronting ideas, but I don’t think he means harm to anyone. You seem to require that people worship Jews and anything less makes them a Nazi. And for that purpose you conflate zionism, Israel, Judaism, individual Jewish families, into one identity. Its just as crazy as some of Ugly’s ideas mate.
    Anyway… as you were :)

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  125. Scott Chris (5,940 comments) says:

    Winston says he had the flu yesterday which is why he mumbled and stumbled and leaned and shook and sweated.

    Yeah he was suffering the effects of flu alright – as in FLU: Fermented Liquid Use.

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  126. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Kea you are a stupid little wingnut who gets her jollies from trolling.
    poor pathetic little screen licker.
    if no one takes any notice you don’t get off.
    Its so sad when that’s all you have….. trolling for attention :lol:

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  127. Jack5 (4,745 comments) says:

    The leftist Guardian trumpets that the International Criminal Court at the Hague is to investigate alleged British war crimes in Iraq, and the newspaper says “the court’s decision places the UK in the company of countries such as the Central African Republic, Colombia and Afghanistan”.

    The court decision was made by its prosecutor, Mrs Fatou Bensouda, from the African nation, the Gambia. Earlier in her career she was Solicitor General of the Gambia, and before that she was manager of a commercial bank in that country.

    The Guardian coverage typifies the British Left’s attitude towards British veterans, and makes a person recall Bismarck’s famous words:

    The whole of the Balkans is not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier.

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/may/13/icc-to-investigate-alleged-british-war-crimes-iraq

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  128. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Hi griffy. It has not gone unnoticed that most of your comments are about the sweet and mild Kea. They rarely add anything of value to the thread. Maybe DPF could start a kea thread for you, if you give him a bag of weed.

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  129. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Ryan, if I can recall context, Ugly was explaining his way of agreeing with Reid’s “Luciferian conspiracy behind Zionism” line. His own twist seems to infer a connection between Lucifer and the throne of Babylon. Thus his own perception of an end to the throne of the world at some end time described in the book now called in English Revelation, once called Apocalypse in Greek.

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  130. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    The leftist Guardian trumpets that the International Criminal Court at the Hague is to investigate alleged British war crimes in Iraq, and the newspaper says “the court’s decision places the UK in the company of countries such as the Central African Republic, Colombia and Afghanistan”.

    Quite selective list. It also places the UK in the company of the United States, which was found guilty of state terrorism in the ICC.

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  131. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    jack 5,

    naturally the genocide in the Darfur that produced the deaths of tens to hundreds of thousands of civilians and the indictment of Sudan’s president Omar al-Bashir for genocide and crimes against humanity by the International Criminal Court will not be included in the investigations for the purpose of cross comparisons.?

    http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/genocide/genocide-in-sudan.htm

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  132. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, the way people interpret prophecy is all too often an expression of their own allegiances vs another group of people. Whether that is determined by ethnic/national people or by religion. When they deem their God as one day acting to defeat these other humans by force, it is really consent to force being used to defeat those concerned.

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  133. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    pathetic troll
    Attention is all you want
    Anything is better than the mind numbing emptiness of you life…. even my insults.
    You really are an extremely sad case. :lol:

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  134. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    griffith (943 comments) says:

    May 14th, 2014 at 11:48 am
    Right now still butt hurting I see
    nothing like a wingnut who has learnt he’s an idiot.

    griffith (943 comments) says:

    May 14th, 2014 at 2:22 pm
    Kea you are a stupid little wingnut who gets her jollies from trolling.
    poor pathetic little screen licker.
    if no one takes any notice you don’t get off.
    Its so sad when that’s all you have….. trolling for attention

    griffith (943 comments) says:

    May 14th, 2014 at 2:45 pm
    pathetic troll
    Attention is all you want
    Anything is better than the mind numbing emptiness of you life…. even my insults.
    You really are an extremely sad case.
    griffith (943 comments) says:

    ================================================

    More erudite commentary on a range of topical issues from griffith :)

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  135. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    I just would like everyone else to come to the same realisation as I have.
    Its working……. they all know your dirty little secret kea / marnie. Your total life is trolling on kb
    It’s hard to imagine how you have ended up so pathetic . Would you, like to share the sad details that made you such a poor pathetic specimen of human? I mean you must be so ugly or really fucked up in the head when KB is all you have. Most persons being a chick and all would find a life even with your disability so what makes you so pathetic ?. :lol:

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  136. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    griffith (943 comments) says:

    May 14th, 2014 at 11:48 am
    Right now still butt hurting I see
    nothing like a wingnut who has learnt he’s an idiot.

    griffith (943 comments) says:

    May 14th, 2014 at 2:22 pm
    Kea you are a stupid little wingnut who gets her jollies from trolling.
    poor pathetic little screen licker.
    if no one takes any notice you don’t get off.
    Its so sad when that’s all you have….. trolling for attention

    griffith (943 comments) says:

    May 14th, 2014 at 2:45 pm
    pathetic troll
    Attention is all you want
    Anything is better than the mind numbing emptiness of you life…. even my insults.
    You really are an extremely sad case.
    griffith (943 comments) says:

    griffith (944 comments) says:

    May 14th, 2014 at 3:11 pm
    I just would like everyone else to come to the same realisation as I have.
    Its working……. they all know your dirty little secret kea / marnie. Your total life is trolling on kb
    It’s hard to imagine how you have ended up so pathetic . Would you, like to share the sad details that made you such a poor pathetic specimen of human? I mean you must be so ugly or really fucked up in the head when KB is all you have. most persons being a chick and all would find a life even with your disability so what makes you so pathetic ?.

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  137. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/o6ah468acdbfy3s/Kea%206%20%282%29.jpg

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  138. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    Everyone here has read your attacks on Zionism, your claims that most Jews are not real Jews…

    You are still lying, ShawnLH. I never said that “most Jews are not real Jews”. The point is that you accused me of lying, but all you have done is illustrate your own hypocrisy.

    Here is an example UglyLyingHypocrite

    These are YOUR words UglyLiar:

    “Lucifer -> Babylon -> Edom -> Rothschilds -> Shield of David -> Hexagram -> Zionist flag”

    That is a perfect example promoting vile, filthy anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli lies.

    Those are my words, and they are neither false nor are they anti Jewish. SPC correctly pointed out that it was my way of showing agreement with Reid.

    The link between Lucifer and Babylon comes from the book of Isaiah, chapter 14:

    4: That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
    12: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    You will have to do better than that, Shawn.

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  139. alex Masterley (1,494 comments) says:

    That’s GD buggered then.

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  140. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    UT , where an earth does Isaiah Ch 14 mention the link “…… > Rothschilds -> Shield of David -> Hexagram -> Zionist flag” except in your fevered and overheated imagination.?

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  141. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I am still wondering where Isaiah mentions MH370 :)

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  142. Lance (2,529 comments) says:

    @griffith
    THC inhibits motor reaction, short term memory and cognitive skills
    So inhibited motor reaction makes one a better driver???

    I call bullshit on dope making you a better driver.

    So do these people;
    http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm
    http://ncpic.org.au/ncpic/publications/research-briefs/article/driving-under-the-influence-of-cannabis-a-brief-review-of-the-literature
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/

    And dozens more.

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  143. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Prophecy is about the good and the bad, how the good wait for God (or not) to get the baddies.

    Apparently there is a long line of baddies, from some being fallen from heaven to Zionists on Earth below 144,000 virgins in heaven.

    UT and Reid base their world view around their understanding of prophecy. A form of profiling of the most likely suspects active in current events.

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  144. PhilP (158 comments) says:

    @ igm
    “Why have Newstalkzb not mentioned the latest poll . . . they had the Roy Morgan poll lead news item . . . has Komrad Little told them what to run as well, or is it the bias that has infiltrated our media at fore once again?”

    You obviously didn’t listen to Mike Hosking on ZB breakfast this morning IGM. Hosking gave the result before 8am and mentioned it to Stephen Joyce and Annette King during their political weekly round-up.

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  145. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    UT , where an earth does Isaiah Ch 14 mention the link “…… > Rothschilds -> Shield of David -> Hexagram -> Zionist flag”

    It doesn’t.

    The link Babylon -> Edom comes from the book of Jasher, where Esau (aka Edom) decapitates the king of Babylon and then sells his birthright to Jacob.

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  146. Pete George (23,128 comments) says:

    ‏@GayNZ

    BREAKING: The Anglican Church “has decided to explore ways that the blessing of same gender relationships could be part of Church life”.
    Equality for parishioners sounds reasonable.

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  147. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    The Anglican Church might bless them but God will cast them into the pit to burn. The bible is clear. Very clear.

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  148. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    Lance

    ….”I call bullshit on dope making you a better driver.”….

    You’re probably on fairly safe ground there but I would point out that stoned drivers tend towards extreme caution whereas drunks take risks they never would sober. Although I’d prefer not to share the road with anyone under the influence of anything I’d take my chances with a stoner before a drunk.

    I would point out that driving under the influence of drink or drugs is already a criminal offence & the police are well equipped to handle the problem.

    But since you see any loosening of the laws relating to possession or use of marijuana as a danger to road safety how do you manage to condone the ready & licit availability of liquor to all & sundry? Shouldn’t you be addressing an equal amount of your time & resources to promoting prohibition just in case someone somewhere feels encouraged to drink & drive?

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  149. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Lance getting old effects your driving shall we ban any one over twenty from driving ?
    having a cold effects your driving shall we ban all who have or have had a cold from driving ? being distracted effects your driving shall we ban any one who has a life? being pregnant effects your driving shall we ban any pregnant woman from driving?

    its relative and driving stoned is not as bad as you and the police make out . banning driving with pot in your blood is pointless and is really only baseless prejudgment it has no actual proof to back it up.

    typical knee jerk from wowsers… if you are stoned you actually take more care this has been proven time and again when stoned drivers are tested. unlike alcohol were getting pissed makes you take more risks.

    I can see from your attitude you drink
    you shouldnt drink more than five standard drinks in a session and drive or operate machinery or be in a position of responsiblity in the following week. You will, be impaired yet I bet you do this all the time thinking its ok …it aint

    From your own links

    NCPIC – National Cannabis Prevention and Information Centre With a barrow to push
    http://ncpic.org.au/ncpic/publications/research-briefs/article/driving-under-the-influence-of-cannabis-a-brief-review-of-the-literature

    When it say at the end In the context of these developments, it is anticipated that future research efforts will help alleviate the current ambiguity in the degree to which cannabis intoxication deteriorates driving performance and increases the risk of motor vehicle crashes.

    this means they have no proof yet they still insist that they are right.

    http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm

    Epidemiological studies have been inconclusive regarding whether cannabis use causes an increased risk of accidents; in contrast, unanimity exists that alcohol use increases crash risk.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/

    Because of both this and an increased awareness that they are impaired, marijuana smokers tend to compensate effectively while driving by utilizing a variety of behavioral strategies.

    Your links prove my statement…. There is no proof that you are a danger while driving stoned…. thanks lance try reading the research instead of being an anti pot noddy next time.

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  150. stigie (963 comments) says:

    Yep, well said Nasska, but a lot will dismiss what you said that is pretty much spot on !~

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  151. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,443 comments) says:
    May 14th, 2014 at 4:14 pm

    You do have a fevered and over heated imagination.The problem is that that chapter is open to a number of different interpretations including the rather bizarre like yours .

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  152. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Pete, the obvious move would be to recognise same sex relationships of Anglicans that were formalised by the state along with the re-marriages of those who were divorced. Thus maintain their own practice while including those excluded by this practice.

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  153. stigie (963 comments) says:

    Lance says…
    “I call bullshit on dope making you a better driver.”

    No one says it makes you a better driver, but a more cautious driver. Sorry to burst your bubble.

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  154. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    Kea,

    “ShawnLH , do you really think Ugly hates Jews ?. ”

    Yes. He tries to hide this by swapping Zionists for the term Jews, but as others have noticed his definition essentially includes most Jews. And conflating Jews with his notion of “Luciferian Satanists”, as he does in the example I posted, is a form of Nazi style Jew hatred. That may be inconvenient to him, and you, but it’s the truth.

    “You seem to require that people worship Jews and anything less makes them a Nazi.”

    That would be, to put it mildly, not even close to that I think. What I require is accuracy, facts, and fairness. Generalizations about “the Jews” are never any of those three.

    ” Its just as crazy as some of Ugly’s ideas mate.”

    Actually your rhetoric comes much closer to Ugly’s on that subject.

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  155. Lance (2,529 comments) says:

    @griffith

    I didn’t mind the ‘dope is not as bad as booze’ line of reasoning. But the next thing you are blathering on about it improving driving.

    There has to be a limit to the bullshit.

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  156. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Ugly, is the story in the book of Jasher true? Or just inferring that Esau and Jacob were like Cain and Abel (see Malachi)? A death and the issue of food sacrifice.

    After all no record of Babylonian history refers to any King losing their head to someone called Esau. So how is Esau a killer who succeeds to the Babylonian throne role?

    There was once the Hammurabi law code – that had death sentence law. Is the inheritance to Esau, by murder, imposition of death sentence law on the tribes of Israel?

    If so that infers a connection between Esau and the priesthood of the Levites. Thus the cult of the lamb/animal sacrifice substitute as a refuge from death sentences falling on Israelis.

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  157. Harriet (4,607 comments) says:

    “…….BREAKING: The Anglican Church “has decided to explore ways that the blessing of same gender relationships could be part of Church life”…….Equality for parishioners sounds reasonable……….”

    The Anglican Church doesn’t hold Mary in as high regard as compared to the likes of the Catholic Church – yet here they are catering to the leso community?

    It’s a marketing exercise.

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  158. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    He tries to hide this by swapping Zionists for the term Jews…

    You’re still a lying sack of shit, Shawn Lee Herles.

    And conflating Jews with his notion of “Luciferian Satanists”, as he does in the example I posted

    I did not such thing, asswipe.

    I’ve shown the references for the first two links re your example of my alleged lying. You’ve got no evidence that any of the others are false.
    If none of the links are false then your accusation fails.

    Lucifer -> Babylon -> Edom -> Rothschilds -> Shield of David -> Hexagram -> Zionist flag

    Your move, dickhead.

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  159. Lance (2,529 comments) says:

    @nassaka
    Fair enough argument.
    I am not some rabid anti-pot fiend (so easy- nay lazy to use labels). I have flatted with people whom personalities took a turn for the worse whenever they were smoking it. Family members who threw away jobs and became anti-social while on it etc etc.

    I am deeply sceptical of purported ‘normalness’ around drugs like this. Fair enough to point out the alcohol / THC disproportionality.

    But put it this way.
    I would not get in a taxi with the driver smoking up, or be a passenger in a plane where the pilots are toking up large. Yes these are offenses already but there seems to be a barrow being pushed by some here that it is completely harmless and should be ignored.

    This is not my point of view.

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  160. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “BREAKING: The Anglican Church “has decided to explore ways that the blessing of same gender relationships could be part of Church life””

    This is both not breaking news, and is worded in a very dishonest way. No surprise there given the source.

    The Anglican has been having a debate about the issue for several years. It’s not “breaking” news at all.

    Moreover, the Church has not only not made any decision yet, and is unlikely to do so anytime soon, the likelihood is that the pro-gay wing will not have the voting numbers anyway.

    Claiming the Church has decided to explore the issue is flat out wrong. I know exactly where the church is on this issue and who all the players are, as I have personally been involved in the debate. So either GayNZ is misinformed, or it is engaging in dishonest propaganda.

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  161. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    I did not say it improves it. I said stoners are safer not better Driving down the motor way at seventy-five kmh is not really a good thing however the faster the speed the bigger the mess.I said that it doesn’t make you a risk to your self or others. This is the findings of all the research I have read. I have personally spoken to a lady responsable for an extensive simulated driving test of stoners in england and she agreed it makes you slow and carefull . Drink makes you think you are invincible pot makes you paranoid at the possibilities of an accident which is the exact opposite.

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  162. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Taking drugs is bad it is the relative harm that we should fucus on.
    \
    I bet you lance that you personally know many who have destroyed their lives by drinking. I can think of at least five personal acquaintances that have ended in jail or hospital , killed their partner (twice in-car accidents for one guy i met)or destroyed their lives by drinking. drugs are evil but ffs lets talk relative harm not pot bad piss good.

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  163. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I would legalise cannabis tomorrow. In moderation it is harmless for most people, (but not all people). I do not think the government has the right to tell us what drug we prefer.

    Booze does much more harm than all other drugs put together. However it is worth remembering far more people use that drug, so one would expect more resultant problems. The key is moderation with either.

    Just like heavy drinking, heavy dope smoking will mess you up and the result can be permanent. Griff shows many of the symptoms of a long term abuser. I have dealt with enough of them to know the signs of being easily flustered and obsessing on unusual topics. There is a definite risk of paranoia and schizophrenia for some people who smoke.

    There are plenty of boozers who would be better off smoking and plenty of smokers who would be safer with booze. We would all be better off with neither truth be told.

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  164. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    Ugly, is the story in the book of Jasher true?

    As far as I know it is factual. The book of Jasher is referred to twice in the Bible as a source, and it recounts much of the events of Genesis, typically with more detail.

    After all no record of Babylonian history refers to any King losing their head to someone called Esau. So how is Esau a killer who succeeds to the Babylonian throne role?

    Esau didn’t take the kingdom. Esau, like the king of Babylon, was a hunter. The theme here is empire, i.e. control by force rather than through kingship.

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  165. stigie (963 comments) says:

    Lance says…
    “I would not get in a taxi with the driver smoking up, or be a passenger in a plane where the pilots are toking up large.”

    I dont think any sane person wants to get into a taxi or in a plane where the driver and pilot have been toking up,
    but that also goes for those people who drink that you forgot to mention. What about some balance ?

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  166. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    Shawn

    ….”I know exactly where the church is on this issue and who all the players are, as I have personally been involved in the debate”…..

    At last someone with the inside oil. Can you confirm that all male Anglicans will now be required to take it up the arse or has the Church, in its wisdom, decided that being gay is voluntary for the time being? :)

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  167. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Kea im an Aspie those symptoms you ascribe to me have nothing to do with pot they are genetic based and beyond my control and are just differences. Whats your excuse for being lonely unloved un fulfilled and un wanted? lets gues some child hood truma ? the result of rejection by you parents as a kiddy?

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  168. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    ShawnLH let us clear up the misunderstanding:

    1. Jews are not special.

    2. They are due nor owed any special consideration.

    3. They should be held accountable for their actions the same as everyone else.

    4. Being an “anti semite” is not worse than being anti Golf, Christians, Muslims, Chinese, Rugby or any other human group.

    5. Wrong things are wrong things EVEN when Jews do them.

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  169. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “At last someone with the inside oil. Can you confirm that all male Anglicans will now be required to take it up the arse or has the Church, in its wisdom, decided that being gay is voluntary for the time being?

    Why? Are you thinking of joining is arse fucking becomes compulsory? ;)

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  170. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    I would allow specialist shops to sell MDMA, BZP (to those over 18) and marijuana (but this by ration card – as per THC content level and would consider a higher age based on evidence supplied as to what age would guide safest use).

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  171. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    Lance

    ….”but there seems to be a barrow being pushed by some here that it is completely harmless and should be ignored.”….

    It may not be harmless but what people do to or put into their own bodies is their own business. That in no way implies that they can use the consumption of the drug(s) of their choice as an excuse for their subsequent actions.

    What I advocate is personal responsibility…..not dictatorship & nanny statism.

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  172. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    griff, chanting the same thing over & over like a mantra, or incantation, will not make it appear more real to others.

    That lack of insight may possible be due to the “Aspie” rather than your bong :)

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  173. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Ugly, we can agree that empire is linked to the way of murder and the bible alludes to this repeatedly.

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  174. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    Not me Shawn…..I lack the prerequisites of homosexual tendencies or a belief in Skyfairies.

    But I realise that it may be hard on you….or in you. :)

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  175. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “ShawnLH let us clear up the misunderstanding:”

    Good, but a shame that’s not what your interested in really doing.

    “1. Jews are not special.”

    They are in so far that they have been subject to 2000 years of constant persecution.

    “2. They are due nor owed any special consideration.”

    Yes, they are by Europeans, because it was Europeans who primarily engaged in that persecution.

    “3. They should be held accountable for their actions the same as everyone else.”

    Accountable for what? Defending themselves against repeated attempts to wipe them out?

    ” Being an “anti semite” is not worse than being anti Golf, Christians, Muslims, Chinese, Rugby or any other human group.”

    That statement is just plain stupid Kea.

    Ever heard of the Holocaust?

    Exactly when was there an attempt to entirely wipe out any other ethnic group, let alone golfers and rugby players?

    That was a remarkably dumb post Kea. Like Ugly and Reid your brain falls out when it comes to this subject.

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  176. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    nasska, The religious among us have clearly stated the, Marriage Redefinition & Compulsory Sodomy Act, has removed choice. What this is about is whether the Church will carry out your “compulsory” gay marriage or not ?

    Try and keep up with things :)

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  177. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    ….”Try and keep up with things”….

    Sorry Kea….my mind wandered. :)

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  178. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    ….”lets gues some child hood truma ? the result of rejection by you parents as a kiddy?”….

    He lost his Teddy Bear when he was three Griff…..he’s never recovered from the trauma. :)

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  179. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    kea you are a troll……… This is the shared view of the overwhelming majority of commentators on kb that I have respect for.
    Do some personal work on your obvious attention seeking problem ……

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  180. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    ShawnLH

    Congratulations for finally [almost] telling the truth that you DO think Jews are special and should be deferred to. You are still not really telling the truth though are you ? Its because of what the b*&^ says isn’t it ?

    Jews have been no more persecuted than many other groups through out history. The holocaust was not even close to being the worse thing in modern history and far worse has happened since. We don’t need to agree. But what matters are events now, and it is Muslims being killed, invaded and attacked. By people like you. The same people who persecuted the Jews.

    You talk about “Europeans” owing the “Jews” something. So why were they given Arab land for what the “Europeans” did to them ?

    You are every bit as mental (about Jews) as I expected due entirely to religious nonsense. But at least you have told the truth… sort of. The other day I asked Ryan Sproul if he knew how to shut me up on the religion issue ? You are nearly there…

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  181. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Let us clear up the misunderstanding:

    1. Moslems/Christians/atheist Gentiles are not special.

    2. They are due nor owed any special consideration.

    3. They should be held accountable for their actions the same as everyone else.

    4. Being “anti theist Gentile religiousity or lack thereof amongst the Gentile atheists” is not worse than being anti any other human group.

    5. Wrong things are wrong things even when these Moslems/Christians/atheist Gentiles do them.

    6. Jews who become Christians/Moslems/atheists are no better than Gentiles of these groups.

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  182. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    nasska, his teddy bears name was my special Jewish friend, as to why the teddy bear went missing, …

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  183. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    griff, Your claims that you represent the views of everyone on KB have as much credibility as your claims you represent the worlds governments and scientists ! The only time I hear the mantra “trolll troll troll” is from people unable to back up their stated position with reasoned argument.

    All you have done today is name call and label. I thought pot heads were supposed to be creative ?

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  184. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    Mossad again SPC….the bastards! :)

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  185. mikenmild (11,159 comments) says:

    Kea is quite fond of saying that the holocaust was nothing special. Why is that?
    And yes, Kea is a troll – griffith is quite correct on that point.
    A good description of a troll is here:
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Troll – which Kiwiblogger does it most remind you of?

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  186. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    All is not lost for the parrot the bear is here
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BAD-TASTE-BEARS-Ewan-4-Sealed-NEW/310936413491?hash=item4865412533

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  187. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    nasska, it was taken by the remote controlled paper airplane they later modelled the drones on. This prototype was used for collecting special Jewish friends off young children – like candy, rather than dropping anything off (apart from a card, yes you are right Mossad stole your teddy bear).

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  188. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I took the liberty of removing the bullshit attempts at justification from my exchange with ShawnLH. No other modifications were made.

    Here is the result:

    “1. Jews are not special.”

    They are.

    “2. They are due nor owed any special consideration.”

    Yes, they are.

    “3. They should be held accountable for their actions the same as everyone else.”

    Accountable for what?

    ” Being an “anti semite” is not worse than being anti Golf, Christians, Muslims, Chinese, Rugby or any other human group.”

    That statement is just plain stupid Kea.

    —————————-

    This is why we have the wars, the killing, the persecution. If you can’t see it dear reader, then take your god goggles off and read it again.

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  189. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Between Shawn and Kea, there is some distance.

    The historic suffering of Jews is not insignificant compared to other peoples, but only the most colonialist of European empires would think that justified Nakba. The irony is that the British did not intend Nakba, but continued paternalist over-rule of both, it was Jewish nationalist resistance to European colonialism by the British that lead to Nakba – whereby the Jewish state was formed over Arab resistance.

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  190. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    Definition of a Troll (from the Urban Dictionary)

    ….”Cannibalistic Ogre from mainly Scandinavian Folklore. Hairy, longnosed, brutish and Bug-eyed, they may also have multiple heads or horns. They come in all sizes, and either burst or turn to stone when sunlight hits them. They lurk in gloomy forests and dark caverns, and especially like to devour small children. However, they are usually pretty thick and can be outwitted with clever tricks.
    The Females of the species are generally kinder and more intelligent, but still fairly hideous.”….

    That’s surely not Kea, Mike! :)

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  191. big bruv (13,450 comments) says:

    Kea

    Would it not be a hell of a lot easier if you just admitted that you hate the state of Israel and Jews?

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  192. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Kea is quite fond of saying that the holocaust was nothing special. Why is that?

    milky, well because Kea bases ideas on known facts and not ideology. It is hard to rate suffering, but for numbers dead and mistreated much worse happened in the expansion of the USSR. But nothing even comes close to what has happened in your lifetime in China. (Yeah I know, they were not “gods master race” and were only chinks, but I am just a big softy !!!)

    Oh and lets not forget this little performance in the 90′s by the Christians (as fucking usual):

    http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.co.nz/2011/03/bosnian-genocide-pictures-are-worth.html

    (of course everyone will pretend they did not see that, as usual)

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  193. mikenmild (11,159 comments) says:

    I don’t actually think Kea hates either Jews or Israel. He is just a bit OTT when trolling here to get attention. Keep feeding him and he’ll keep coming.

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  194. mikenmild (11,159 comments) says:

    I’ll play Kea. So what has happened in my lifetime in China that was worse than the holocaust? And would you really characterise the Srebrenica massacre as a christian crime?

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  195. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, what political events equate to over a thousand years of persecution based on group identity alone?

    PS the USSR did not expand – imperial Russia did, it’s regime simply killed many – to impose the communist regime and the collective ownership of farms.

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  196. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    big bruv, why would I do that ? What sort of mental disorder have you got that makes you think someone who is so vocal about not persecuting certain groups and demands equal treatment for ALL would want to hurt Jews ?

    Someone who repeatedly says: “I am opposed to ALL wrongs by ALL groups ALL of the time” or who has often remarked they respect Jews the most of all the desert cults due to their strong intellectual culture ?

    So given all that, why would you ask this ? “Kea

    Would it not be a hell of a lot easier if you just admitted that you hate the state of Israel and Jews?”

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  197. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    mikenmild, oh I think he hates Israel’s existence and also dislikes theists who think they are special, whether Jewish, Christian or Moslem.

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  198. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    SPC, The single biggest reason people go to war is over historical wrongs. Are you seriously suggesting every single person on earth now owes the Jews servitude and deference due to events before they were born ? Sort your head out.

    The war is over. The people who did it are dead. The biggest victim group was not Jews. It was atheist Russians and Eastern Europeans, of which Jews made up a percentage. They were treated no better and tens of millions of *Eastern Europeans died. Learn some history.

    *Not the Catholic Croats though. They shocked even the SS with their brutality to Jews and Serbs. Some Jews escaped to nearby Albania and sheltered with the Muslims there. Learn some history.

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  199. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I’ll play Kea. So what has happened in my lifetime in China that was worse than the holocaust?

    Fuck me what an idiot !

    About as many died as the entire death toll of world war 2, all sides combined. Some estimates say more that that. One book I read reckoned 100 million perished !

    And please do not insult my intelligence further with nonsense about how the Jews were somehow treated worse or other ignorant statements to disguise your special-pleading arguments. What happened was horrific and went beyond even the most hysterical holocaust stories.

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  200. Lucia Maria (2,229 comments) says:

    I phoned up NewsTalkZB yesterday to talk to Tim Fookes about registering bicycles. You’d think that even the mention of the concept of yet another potential registration would turn every person listening off, but no, the number of people that phoned in to support the idea, was staggering.

    By quarter past eleven, I’d had enough and phoned to give my opinion. Which was that registration was unnecessary because of facial recognition software, the future increased use of cameras at intersections, and photo id for everyone (my kids have photo id for school).

    I even had a story of how my oldest son was almost run over by a speeding cyclist in Sydney who thought he could weave between pedestrians on a red light, not realising that hidden between the cars in the intersection, was a pram about to cross his path. The only thing that saved him from a horrendous crash with a baby was me pulling the pram violently backwards in the split seconds I had to realise what was happening. Even with that story, I didn’t want cyclist registration, much to Tim’s surprise.

    Sorry, there’s no audio of my voice on the radio, as their on demand service was down at the time, and so last week’s recording is still there.

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  201. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    Ugly, we can agree that empire is linked to the way of murder and the bible alludes to this repeatedly.

    Yes, and murder and slander are related:

    Ye [Pharisees] are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
    John 8:44

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  202. mikenmild (11,159 comments) says:

    Specifically Kea, when in my lifetime did 100 million perish in China? Hint:
    I am not yet 50.

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  203. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “Alex, governments are creations of people, and legal persons are creations of government. Assuming that people and persons have the same status leads to absurdity regarding responsibility.”

    Corporations are people the Suprmeme Court tells us

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  204. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Ugly, thus the term character assassination. This preceded Christian hate of Pharisees/ Jews. Then the murder of Jews as a hate crime when Christians were in imperial power.

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  205. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    milky, you support socialists. The same people as the Nazi, the USSR, Pol Pot, Mao, and cry “Troll” like the little piece of craven shit you are when you are called out. No matter how much you chant troll with your ignorant hate filled christian bigot mates, you will not conjure up a single fact to support your position.

    You represent the very worst of the human condition. So the more I upset filth like you the bigger the compliment I feel.

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  206. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, 6.28pm stop lying about the opinions of those you debate with.

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  207. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Predictably not one of you filthy little creeps had a thing to say about this, other than to suggest it was not christians who did it. Was it Jews then ? Well no. The Jews sheltered with the Muslims there when you christians were killing them !

    This WAS during your lifetime milky. In fact people your age did it.

    http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.co.nz/2011/03/bosnian-genocide-pictures-are-worth.html

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  208. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, 6.41pm stop lying about the opinions of those you debate with. This character assassination is a form of hate crime of those who disagree with you. It is why the term troll then fits you like a glove.

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  209. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    First wheelchair-bound prime minister?

    My name is Joshua Perry. I was the first wheelchair-bound model to drive down the catwalk at New Zealand Fashion Week in 2011.

    Now, I feel called to stand up for those people with disabilities that cannot speak for themselves.

    I recently moved from Christchurch to Dunedin after the earthquakes.

    I do not believe that the current government is doing a fast enough job rebuilding Christchurch.

    When the earthquakes hit on February 22nd, I was stuck at the Polytech and it has affected the way I think to this day.

    If I became the prime minister after the next election, I would improve CERA and let people get on with their lives.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/assignments/share-your-news-and-views/10042745/First-wheelchair-bound-prime-minister

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  210. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    “Kea, 6.28pm stop lying about the opinions of those you debate with.”

    SPC, If you thought otherwise you would have had a go at ShawnLH and his absurd attempt at telling us we (Goy)
    owe the Jews for eternity.

    You must remember ShawnLH is probably an honest decent bloke most of the time. But he feels biblically justified in lying to protect Jews and dropping all normal morality in defense of “gods chosen ones”

    He won’t admit it, but that makes it no less true.

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  211. mikenmild (11,159 comments) says:

    I’ll ask again Kea, although I know you won’t answer (you don’t when called out on bullshit): What was it about the Srebrenica massacre that made it a specifically christian crime?

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  212. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    “character assassination is a form of hate crime”

    “troll” blah blah

    The irony of you bigots. It hurts :)

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  213. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    “What was it about the Srebrenica massacre that made it a specifically christian crime?”

    milky, Because Christians did it and did it for religious reasons. How did you miss that ?

    My turn:

    What was it about the holocaust [the earlier one] that made it a specifically European crime ?

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  214. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, re the China death toll, not as high as 100m. It was c30-40M in the cultural revolution. The death toll under Mao’s regime would have been well over 50M as high as 75M? – partly as a result of failed economic policies in the 50′s. Of course this excludes those who died in the struggle for power over China before 1949.

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  215. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, 6.51, I dealt with the two extremists in my 6.13pm post

    May 14th, 2014 at 6:13 pm
    Between Shawn and Kea, there is some distance.

    The historic suffering of Jews is not insignificant compared to other peoples, but only the most colonialist of European empires would think that justified Nakba. The irony is that the British did not intend Nakba, but continued paternalist over-rule of both, it was Jewish nationalist resistance to European colonialism by the British that lead to Nakba – whereby the Jewish state was formed over Arab resistance.

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  216. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    SPC, the figures are all over the place. 100 million was what I read in a book called Red Sorrow. It is the highest figure I have heard.

    I noticed you say 30-40 million in the Cultural Revolution, but just plain forgot about the Great Leap Forward. Yet would you forget how many Jews died in the war ?

    And please do not even bother telling me it was accidental starvation that killed them all. Many millions died hideous deaths through mistreatment. The official records are very slowly being released and it is too distressing for me to even read on further. (A bit like it would be for you reading about the master race of Jews suffering)

    https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/nanchu/red-sorrow/

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  217. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, when the Serbs killed Croats, Slovenes and Bosnians and those of Kosovo for seeking independence from Yugoslavia, as part of building a greater Serbia in place of Yugoslavia, when were they acting as Christians?

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  218. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    SPC, if the Jewish holocaust was not a failed economic policy, then what was it ?

    You did not even bother to mention The Great Leap. It was nothing. Yet tens of millions died. Imagine someone forgetting the holocaust happened !!!

    The Great Leap Forward constituted genocide, as Mao employed all of Stanton’s “Eight Steps of Genocide” against his Chinese compatriots in his unsuccessful effort to launch China into a sterling model of communism.

    The extermination of twenty to forty-three million Chinese citizens was a direct result of the manmade famine that was a byproduct of Mao’s Great Leap Forward. The Chinese government denied the genocide by officially assigning an under-inflated death toll of fourteen million people.

    http://www.ncas.rutgers.edu/mao-and-great-leap-forward

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  219. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, if the Great Leap Forward was not a failed economic policy, then what was it? Yes there was deliberation to it (lack of concern for the peoples well-being), just as there was in the collectivisation of farms in Russia/Ukraine. The point of difference between these political crimes by the ruling government to the historic persecution of Jews, is that they were done by the communist regimes to their own people, it was not a persecution by one group of another (except in the sense of ruler and ruled)

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  220. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    60 Million Dead (SPC clean forgot about this. But luckily remembered some Jews died in a global conflict before he was born.)

    the only party was the one that ruthlessly beat and tortured them into submission and condemned them to a cruel life and a terrible death.

    they dictated that those too old or too sick to work would not be fed in the communal kitchens. They would be left to starve to death, and the sooner the better.

    Villagers caught trying to hide or hoard food were clubbed to death. Ears were lopped off, hair ripped out, people branded with hot irons; they were forced to eat excrement, doused in petrol and set alight.

    Dikotter found evidence of all these punishments for offences as small as digging up a potato. In all, he estimated 2.5 million people were beaten or tortured to death.

    Youth was no excuse. A 12-year-old boy was drowned in a pond like a kitten for stealing food from the communal canteen.
    After a boy took a handful of grains, his father was forced to bury him alive.

    Women were raped at will by party officials and the militia who policed the communes. For minor infractions, it was not unusual for them to be paraded naked through their villages, a humiliation that caused many to kill themselves.

    Women also carried the heavier burden of trying to save their children and all too often failing. A starving mother accused of stealing a few grains of rice for her two children jumped into a river to drown with them strapped to her back.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017839/Madman-starved-60-million-death-Devastating-book-reveals-Maos-megalomania-turned-China-madhouse.html#ixzz31fjloSKz

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  221. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, the topic was your claim that 100M died in China during mikenmild’s lifetime. He is under 50.

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  222. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    The point of difference between these political crimes by the ruling government to the historic persecution of Jews, is that they were done by the communist regimes to their own people, it was not a persecution by one group of another (except in the sense of ruler and ruled)

    SPC, so that makes it worse to those people how ? More special pleading for gods master race, but not the lessor yellow heathens.

    You disgust me in a way I simply can not express. You filthy little creep.

    [DPF: 20 demerits. You are now on 90. 10 more and the next suspension is for 4 months]

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  223. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, from your own link.

    “The first step, he decreed, was a massive irrigation programme to build dams and reservoirs. Peasants who were just about to bring in the corn and rice harvests were hauled off the land and directed in their millions to this gruelling, slave labour with picks and shovels. In their absence, crops rotted in the soil. There was the first shortage of food that winter.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017839/Madman-starved-60-million-death-Devastating-book-reveals-Maos-megalomania-turned-China-madhouse.html#ixzz31fmLglv2

    This sort of central command can result in economic failure. It can kill as many as deliberate political crimes.

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  224. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    SPC, if the Jewish holocaust was not a failed economic policy, then what was it ?

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  225. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, 7.29pm, yes we all understand you, you will attack anyone who stands up to you when you vent on this topic of your right to accuse Jews of claiming to be a master race and your having a special hate for those who are not Jews who find this offensive.

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  226. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, if those targeted were Jews, it was not an economic policy.

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  227. mikenmild (11,159 comments) says:

    How was the holocaust a ‘failed economic policy’?

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  228. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    First they will claim that the crimes by communists against humanity were greater.

    Then they will claim that greater crimes of inter-group hate have occurred

    That the persecution of Jews across over a thousand years and the ultimate attempt to eliminate them from Europe was nothing special

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_

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  229. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    SPC, Jews do claim to be special. I don’t care as many others think the same.

    What pisses me of is filth like you who try and minimise the most appalling wrongs against others to make it look like jews are somehow special. They are not and they are not persecuted today. History is littered with example of people LIKE YOU who persecute particular groups.

    My claim was that the holocaust was not the worst thing to happen. I provided examples. Tell me about the Roma “right of return/homeland” . They suffered everything the Jews did. Tell me your views on them being given someone elses land, say in some Jewish neighborhood in the US, for example.

    Yeah right !

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  230. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    The situation of the Jews is in many ways is unique the Great Leap Forward notwithstanding.The former was a disastrous attempt by Mao and the Communist Party to leapfrog China into a modern industrial state regardless of the consequences, Similar to Stalin’s equally disastrous collectivization policies in the Ukraine as SPC has both referred to.
    The Jews as we all know have survived against terrific odds whilst the Persian, Babylonian , Assyrian, Egyptian , Mede etc empires have come and gone. They’ve survived the destruction of Jerusalem and the three revolts under the Romans with the following diaspora. Not forgetting the Persecution the middle ages and subsequently.
    Possibly their crowning achievement include ethical and moral principles and foundation that has helped formed the basis of Western Civilization. Additionally the fact that as 2% of the world’s population they’ve have contributed to 22% of the Nobel Prizes where it really matters i.e. the hard sciences ( Physics, Chemistry, Biology etc ). That alone is phenomenal and worth pondering about.

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  231. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    “Did you hear the news?

    “276 girls kidnapped by rebel army of Hamilton atheists which is engaged in on-going fighting with agnostics in Tauranga.”

    Me neither.

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  232. mikenmild (11,159 comments) says:

    Everyone on GD happy dancing along to Kea’s tune?

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  233. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, yes we get it when someone does not agree with you, you resort to associating them with some crime against humanity – so you can fell holier than thou. Is this your personal Kea cult belief about how you have superior morality to others?

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  234. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Wow just look how these Jeewws suffer out side of the homeland. So terrible ! Better divert aid from the Gaza strip and rush to Europe to help these persecuted people. FFS !!!

    the Jerusalem Post

    Forbes ranking: The world’s richest Jews

    ” For example, Oracle CEO Larry Ellison’s net worth grew $7 billion to $43b. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s net worth rose $5b., and the net worth of both Google founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin rose $4.3b. to $23b. The net worth of Len Blavatnik, who recently acquired Clal Industries, jumped $4.1b. to $16b.”

    http://www.jpost.com/Business/Business-Features/Forbes-ranking-The-worlds-richest-Jews-310104

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  235. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    “The situation of the Jews is in many ways is unique the Great Leap Forward notwithstanding.”

    The situation of the Chinese is in many ways is unique the holocaust notwithstanding.

    “SPC (4,925 comments) says:
    May 14th, 2014 at 8:05 pm
    Kea, yes we get it when someone does not agree with you, you resort to associating them with some crime against humanity ”

    Like calling them Neo Nazis ? Yeah annoying a bigot ?

    “Kea, if those targeted were Jews, it was not an economic policy.”

    Kea, if those targeted were land owners, it was not an economic policy.

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  236. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    He’s expressing an opinion, same as most of us Mike.

    We can each agree or disagree as we wish.

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  237. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, yes we get it you hate the fact that the state of Israel exists and wish it were otherwise.

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  238. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    mikenmild, 6.18pm, I think you are wrong about Kea. The one topic on which he has firm opinions and will quickly resort to attacks on others is on Israel and the “master race” tag fro Jews”. He is sincere on this topic and his combativeness is no pose.

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  239. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    nasska, yes but on some topics some people are unable to remain civil to others.

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  240. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    The worlds’s richest Arabs,

    http://www.arabianbusiness.com/photos/the-world-s-richest-arabs-2013-530689.html?img=0#.U3MmkyjLh0g

    Not doing that badly at all.!

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  241. Left Right and Centre (2,861 comments) says:

    Everyone on GD happy dancing along to Kea’s tune?

    I don’t see the harmony in it.

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  242. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    SPC, I would have some time for you if I thought you were sincere. You are not. You are not sincere and you are not revealing your true thoughts. The sort of slippery bullshit above, where you attempt to divert attention from the real point, shows that clearly.

    Israel will not last in its current state so don’t get too excited. One day the supremacist state will collapse as do all such places. No more DNA tests for race purity etc. The Jew can not live without its host and its host is dying. Sorry about that. Good news though. Those Israelis who don’t like living as a united people with the Arabs can return to their prosperous easy lives in Europe. All the others will live happily together as they did before the racial supremacists came and fucked it up.

    The war and the killing will stop. ShawnLH and assorted bigots will still be free to think of them as the master race. No harm done.

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  243. mikenmild (11,159 comments) says:

    I’m not actually sure that Kea has any firm opinions of his own. He just likes to troll along merrily and then harp on about particular topics when he gets a reaction.

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  244. Johnboy (15,382 comments) says:

    Did you say hello to the Ferret Milky? :)

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  245. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    “He is sincere on this topic and his combativeness is no pose.”

    SPC, sorry that pushing me around is not like a Israeli “soldier” shooting rock throwing kids from his American Tank.

    The funny thing is how many Jews have views much much stronger than mine about this. Whole segments of Judaism are totally opposed to Israel and those groups are rapidly growing. The Israeli government is desperate as they will not even serve in the army and refuse to work. Maybe you pricks could call them “Troll” or “Nazi”. That should fix it :)

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  246. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, you seem to take some consolation in the future going the way you want, something common to those who believe in religious prophecy. For Christians and Moslems world dominion, for some Jews some eretz Israel style state with regional hegemon, that the world has to co-exist with.

    Sorry about not appreciating the Kea cause crusade ship and climbing aboard to applaud the strategy and tactics without question.

    It really really must be some strategy on my part, rather than any sincere disagreement.

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  247. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    The so called “supremacist ” Israel state will survive like their Jewish inhabitants have done so for the last 3000 or so years. One reason is they are dealing with a highly irrational enemy including am extremely irrational and deluded one like kea.

    Pat Condell expands further on this ,

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  248. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, yes of course anyone contending with your argument, and getting personal abuse from you for it, is trying to bully you.

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  249. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    SPC, you won’t see me persecuting anyone. I don’t do what you do and I don’t follow orders from your type.

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  250. Steve (North Shore) (4,516 comments) says:

    Linda has her period again:
    http://thestandard.org.nz/the-desperation-of-the-nationals-sockpuppets/#comments

    Full moon is tomorrow

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  251. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

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  252. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, “The funny thing is how many Jews have views much much stronger than mine about this”

    In that Jews of religious cults (Ultra-Orthodox) are like Christians and Moslems in their judgement of the unbelieving Jew.

    More interesting is the post nationalism of some of the secular Jews.

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  253. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    here is another for you stupidboy. It one of my favourites. :)

    YOUR FAITH IS A JOKE

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  254. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, 8.36. so you pose those who don’t agree with you with persecuting people and giving orders.

    Is this supposed to wound the sensibilities of weak liberals, would they feel intimidated by the debate declining to this aggressive tone/personal abuse?

    Start the day with a provocation and end it with attacks on those who question it.

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  255. Left Right and Centre (2,861 comments) says:

    kea & nasska remind me of Darth Vader & The Emperor.

    Darth Vader did all the work and all the talking. But you knew who was boss.

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  256. Left Right and Centre (2,861 comments) says:

    Random comment: My best day on KB was when one comment received more downticks than Penny’s redder posts.

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  257. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    SPC, I was clearly challenging ShawnLH’s claim of Jewish exceptionalism. And get of your high horse with the whole “abuse” thing. The fact is you are okay with it when it is against someone who does not support your raging prejudices. Just as the slaughter of millions is minimised by you if they are not of pure Jewish stock. With the incredibly piss weak argument that the Nazi wanted to kill Jews, so that made it exceptional and somehow worse !

    You have simply driven me to conclude you are a one eyed bigot with that sort of vapid nonsense. You might write off all of Asia, all Muslims etc as less human or worthy, but don’t expect me to join in your poorly disguised supremacist doctrine. I would not want to be a Chinese Muslim with pricks like you running the country !

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  258. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    LRC, for maximum down ticks, accurate bible quotes or the writings of Rabbis simply cut n’ pasted work best. Trust me :)

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  259. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, so according to you I have raging prejudices, and I favour abuse, because you were challenging someone else’s prejudices with your own? When the debate gets going Ugly and Reid remain consistent to themselves, you just lose rationality.

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  260. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    Yes Pat Condell is an Atheist and is entitled his point of view but he rises above this and leaves his more harsher , more pertinent criticism to your Islam and reserves his unstinting praise for Jews and Israel.
    Life is full of paradoxes and incongruities.But you can have your Iran or Saudi Arabia and Pat and me can enjoy our Israel.

    I’M OFFENDED BY ISLAM.. … in so many, many , many ways…

    kea lose rationality.? the video above will explain why.?

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  261. Left Right and Centre (2,861 comments) says:

    The NZ vernacular promotes “arsehole” as opposed to the Americanism “asshole”.

    Although I agree wholeheartedly – I can feel my own atittude towards American spelling softening the more that I am exposed to it. Cultural assimilation. Asshole is also just funnier to use when speaking – and the American version also has slightly different shades of meaning than the Commonwealth version. Whereas arsehole really only means total prick – asshole can also describe for eg someone dressed like an idiot – you look like an asshole. What kind of asshole blah blah does such and such ? It’s more akin to clown or moron rather than purely just evil damaged fucked up cunt. It can be a bit softer in Americanese.

    But I use it appreciating the difference. The latest generation use it as if they are in fact natural Americans.

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  262. Left Right and Centre (2,861 comments) says:

    LRC, for maximum down ticks, accurate bible quotes or the writings of Rabbis simply cut n’ pasted work best. Trust me

    Or change username dropping ‘right’ and ‘centre’. That would be a twenty downtick minimum just to get through the door . . .

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  263. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Yes Pat Condell is an Atheist and is entitled his point of view but he rises above this

    The arrogance is breath taking, but more interesting is the special pleading that features in all stupidboys emissions. Pat is worth listening to, but not if he disagrees with stupidboys faith, but especially worth listening to if he is critical of Muslim, but not Jews and not Christians… and on it goes. Never a principle to be found or one ounce of intellectual honesty.

    You want to shut me up ? Then tell the bloody truth. Admit your religious bias. You are trying to dress up blind faith as logic. Faith is belief without evidence or logic, not with reason and logic. Simply admit the bible says Jews are special and Muslims are the poor relation, so you go with that. I might disagree ( I will ) but its an honestly stated opinion I could have limited response to.

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  264. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    LRC, I wonder if the user name -Ismail Bin Mohamed- is taken on KB yet ? ;)

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  265. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “well because Kea bases ideas on known facts and not ideology.”

    Bullshit.

    Claiming the Holocaust was nothing special is ideology, not fact. It’s not just a matter of the death toll, it’s the attempt to wipe out an entire ethnic group. Nor was it a failed economic policy. What the hell did the death camps have to do with economic policy?

    Not only are you profoundly ignorant about the Holocaust and the reasons for it, your own rhetoric regarding the Jews is pure ideology.

    Your really making yourself look like a pratt Kea, a deeply ill-informed pratt.

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  266. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “ShawnLH and assorted bigots will still be free to think of them as the master race. No harm done.”

    Except I don’t. Thats your lie Kea, because your too stupid to come up with a fact based, rational argument, because there is none for your claims.

    I don’t think the Jews are a master race moron. Nobody does except you.

    If you have to lie to make your case, you have no case to make.

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  267. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Kea, “Simply admit the bible says Jews are special and Muslims are the poor relation”

    Why, and how, the bible does not mention Moslems.

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  268. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “You are trying to dress up blind faith as logic. Faith is belief without evidence or logic, not with reason and logic.”

    Well, lets tear this little bit of stupidity to shreds.

    Faith is belief WITH reason, That is how it has always been defined and practiced in the Church.

    But reason is not in fact your strong point Kea. What you have is hatred, nothing more rational than that. You claim you don’t, but since coming on KB your rhetoric ragrding the Jews has never been about facts, but ranting and trolling hate.

    Nothing more.

    By comparison those with faith AND reason make you look like a dribbling simpleton.

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  269. Tom Jackson (2,476 comments) says:

    Jesus H Christ. Not another fucking Jew thread.

    Right. Gone until after the election.

    This place has steadily gone crazier and crazier and the wild photoshop accusations are just the latest exercise in drooling and gibbering, and Farrar himself joined in on that clusterfuck.

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  270. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    The Bible doesn’t say the Jews are special. Nowhere in Scripture is that stated. So we are back to either lies, or as I suspect, ignorance. The Bible says the Jews were chosen because they were the least in the world, not because they were special.

    But this is just par for the course with someone who could claim the holocaust was nothing special.

    No reason is being employed here by Kea. Just ignorance based prejudice.

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  271. stephieboy (2,441 comments) says:

    kea, your much safer blabbering on and not shutting up. No one is going to stone you for blasphemy, apostasy, adultery etc. here. Faith. logic , religious bias.??? Its a lot more simple than that fortunately.
    Our Pat Condell is spot on about radical and the highly irrational Islam that you love and worship , and spot on about the Israel and Jews that you so fervently hate .!

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  272. Left Right and Centre (2,861 comments) says:

    That story was rehearsed ,stage managed and dreadfully stilted

    Shit – I hate it when I have to agree with even one kowtow sentence. It makes my sack shrink.

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  273. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    The Bible does not mention Muslims at all. It could not do so, because the Muslim faith was not born until 622 A.D.!! DUH! :)

    Cripes, a person would really have to work hard to attain that level of utter stupidity! :)

    Facts and reason my ass!!! :) LOL

    Give it rest Kea. You already look like a total moron! :)

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  274. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    The holocaust was terrible. Beyond belief. But as I have shown, far worse has happened and attracts ZERO comment from you ShawnLH.

    At least you have clearly stated you do in fact think the Jews are special and the Goyim do in fact owe them and should give them special consideration and defer to them. I disagree, but at least you almost told the truth about your real beliefs. You are nearly there to shutting me up ;)

    You must remember my ancestors did not persecute Jews, so I don’t have the guilt complex or the religious belief you do. Get it ?

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  275. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “The arrogance is breath taking, ”

    No, your stupidity and ignorance is breathtaking!!! :)

    The Bible mentions Muslims???? LMFAO!!!!!! :) :) :)

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  276. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “But as I have shown, far worse has happened and attracts ZERO comment from you ShawnLH.”

    No, all you did was compare numbers, nothing more, which was never the point dumbass.

    And the reason I said nothing was because I have been out.

    Idiot.

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  277. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “At least you have clearly stated you do in fact think the Jews are special and the Goyim do in fact owe them and should give them special consideration and defer to them. ”

    No I didn’t you lying moron. That is just your brainless hysteria.

    What I said was that the holocaust means we have a responsibility not to repeat the same crap that led to it in the first place.

    That is not saying the Jews themselves are special just for being Jews.

    My meaning was obvious to anyone with more than two braincells to rub together! :)

    And you started this farce by claiming that the Holocaust was no different to people disliking Rugby fans!!! LOL!!!!:)

    That comment alone makes Ugly and Reid look sane and intelligent compared to you!!! :)

    I’m done with you. You don’t deserve my time. Mike is right. Not only are you an ignorant moron spouting on subjects you clearly have no clue about, you’re a troll just trying to get a response.

    Best way to kill a troll is stop feeding them.

    Bye bye now! :)

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  278. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, I know enough about the bible fable to know a special place is promised for you in the deepest bowels of Hell.

    You have had plenty of time to comment on the horrors suffered by your fellow man in China in recent decades, but you said nothing. At least 60 million dead. Unspeakable suffering and torture. No comment. They were not Jews.

    This is from the 90′s. They are Muslim. No comment. Not Jews.

    http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.co.nz/2011/03/bosnian-genocide-pictures-are-worth.html

    The other tens of millions dead in the war. No comment. Not Jews.

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  279. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    What I said was that the holocaust means we have a responsibility not to repeat the same crap that led to it in the first place.

    Oh but we did. Oh yes indeed we did. 60 million in China. Concentration camps and pogroms through out communist Europe. All after the war.

    Did you catch this: http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.co.nz/2011/03/bosnian-genocide-pictures-are-worth.html

    So how does this keep on happening. Well my friend because of people like you and stupidboy. That is the sad thing about it. Collectively the Jews know this. They know how fickle your hate is and they do not trust the Christian Goy.

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  280. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    Our Pat Condell is spot on about radical and the highly irrational Islam that you love and worship

    Pat Condell is a stupid bigot.

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  281. ShawnLH (4,315 comments) says:

    “LRC, for maximum down ticks, accurate bible quotes”

    Like claiming the Bible mentions Muslims????

    LMFAO!!!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

    No Kea, genocides happen because of ignorant, ill-informed haters like you!

    How many millions were killed by atheists in the 20th century huh?

    Atheists like you who hated religion and spouted about “reason” killed hundreds of million in less than a century.

    Combine that with his bigoted Jew hatred and the biggest candidate on this blog for potential genocide and fun times at the concentrations camps is……..

    KEA!!! :)

    Night all!!!

    I’m going to tell my wife that there are according to Kea Muslims in the Bible! She’ll get a damned good laugh out of that one!! :) :) :)

    What a total pratt! :)

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  282. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    Like claiming the Bible mentions Muslims????

    The term “Muslim” means someone who submits to Allah, it does not refer exclusively to those who call themselves Muslims. The first century disciples were called the people of the way, just as sharia means the way.

    http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/120556

    The words Islam and Muslim come from the same 3 letter root word (s,l and m) in arabic. Islam by definition means surrender and submission only to the one true creator. A muslim by definition means one who surrenders and submits to the laws of God.

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  283. Left Right and Centre (2,861 comments) says:

    Bye bye now!

    Jesus Christ on a bike mate – don’t just say it.

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  284. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Ugly, did the “laws of God” change, evolve or multiply between the first century BCE and the seventh century CE?

    You do realise that the imperial “peace”, would be different as per who decided what the law of God was?

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  285. Left Right and Centre (2,861 comments) says:

    Life of a dieter . . . must see content . . . ready yourself . . .

    Even at the severe cost of putting a one hour dent in a steady flow of ‘good’ TV – had decided to make the trek to the shops. A bit of exercise and excitement. ‘Exercitement’ ? (don’t think excrement). Headed to Countdown where the bakery specials are out at night – not the morning. This week’s rule is – six cream buns reduced to $2 or less or nothing. It was nothing. Coke range 1.5 3 for $6. Scored me two Fanta Zeros and a Lift Zero. One bottle left now – they are damned good.

    Been a ‘vegetarian’ for about a week now. Trim milk the only animal product – whoa.

    Could probably exist on vegetables alone. Spooky. And tea and zero soft drink. Had a reading 1.3kg under the A+ target. I had to shitgrin – that’s stupidly good – hehe. The novelty of losing 16-18kg (18-20kg ?) still hasn’t worn off after 17 months. I don’t think I can easily remember how my body was anymore.

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  286. Left Right and Centre (2,861 comments) says:

    Life of a dieter . . . the late morning edition . . .

    This is probably dysfunctional. Hit pak n save at opening time. Why ? Their bakery specials are early worm. 1kg of next day raspberry buns $3. Picked them up – walked around shop – started rationalisation process and it was game over. Took a long long time but eventually put them back grudgingly.

    Can’t leave empty handed. Custard 1kg $4 ? Walked around shop with custard. Eventually settled back on FnF lite berry trio six pack $3 and a few sweets from the now open local dairy. (custard or yoghurt get eaten with porridge and fruit – divine)

    Social conditioning – powerful stuff. That took an hour to buy one food item.

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  287. UglyTruth (4,537 comments) says:

    Ugly, did the “laws of God” change, evolve or multiply between the first century BCE and the seventh century CE?

    Yes.

    You do realise that the imperial “peace”, would be different as per who decided what the law of God was?

    The imperium has very little to do with divine law.

    The biggest single problem with theocracy is that men subvert it for political ends. In the case of the Westminster system, the imperium is cloaked by the “divine right” to rule.

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