General Debate 16 May 2014

May 16th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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245 Responses to “General Debate 16 May 2014”

  1. duggledog (1,581 comments) says:

    Want to give yourself a fright?

    Go to: yourtaxtracker.co.nz, enter your annual income and see where it goes.

    33% of mine goes to social welfare, about half of that to OAP’s

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  2. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Can’t understand how Watkins and Small came to their conclusions in the Fairfax rags this morning. It appears that Little and his union henchmen must have pulled some strings. It can be expected from Newstalkzb and Radio NZ, but what the hell do these leeching lefties expect taxpayers to give them now?

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  3. hj (7,060 comments) says:

    “you can’t make much difference to migration numbers ” Bill English

    The housing boom has meant good profits for many New Zealand companies supplying
    materials and building services, but it implies investors would rather invest in their country’s
    homes rather than its businesses (Bollard 2005). The high returns for property has attracted
    finance and reduced the capital available for productive investment (Moody, 2006). The
    consequence is investment is going in to industries with limited capacity to increase per capita
    incomes. For example, real estate and building are domestically bound and do not have the
    market potential of export industries. They also have less opportunity to increase productivity
    through new processes and products. The irony is, as these sectors grow, they have incurred
    skills shortages which in turn has increased demand for skilled immigrants. The Department
    of Statistics ‘Long Term Skill Shortage List’ of 28/3/2006 includes carpenter/joiner, plumber,
    electricians, fitter and turners, fitter welders; all indicative of a nation building its
    construction/property sector.
    There is a danger that a sector of the economy is being augmented that is totally reliant on a
    small domestic economy. Not only do these industries have limited potential for per-capita
    growth but ‘deriving growth via factor inputs such as labour places pressure on infrastructure
    such as transport and land supply, and ultimately have a further negative impact on growth
    (ARC 2005). Finally, as the sector gets larger, it gains in lobbying/political strength and can
    lobby for immigration regardless if it is the best interests of the economy as a whole. This
    could be seen in Canada where the development industry has lobbied hard for high sustained
    immigration levels (Ley and Tutchener 2001).

    Dr Greg Clydesdale Growing Pains

    National used the more money for families thing to cover the hole.

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  4. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    There’s no way of knowing if the budget is an election winner for National (it won’t harm their chances and will probably enhance them) but as a smart, sensible, pragmatic budget that appears to care for families it has to be a winner for National for the momen

    National have crafted a crafty budget and are the big winners, with Dunne picking up some of the glory.

    It won’t win the election but it will make it harder for Labour and Greens to win. They were practising losing speeches yesterday.

    They can still win the election, but they have to start looking like potential winners.

    Yesterday John Key and Bill English looked like they were on the podium already. People like voting for winners, not whiners.

    Budget winners and whiners

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  5. hj (7,060 comments) says:

    What Pete George said crafty. Machiavellian in fact.

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  6. hj (7,060 comments) says:

    Bent.

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  7. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Some goon Teo-Sherrell, a raging Greenie, wants to increase Horizons’ rates even more. This being an example of the hopeless leeches that get elected to councils when losers get a vote. Local body elections must be the domain of principal ratepayers only, or we will be taken over by fiscally dyslexic bludgers. Look at the outcomes in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch? Poor bloody ratepayers.

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  8. hj (7,060 comments) says:

    Radio NZ “unreservedly apologises to “—“. :wink:
    Surley the public could be better served than paying $150,000 pa to hear Horans opinions?

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  9. stigie (1,310 comments) says:

    That budget had the left on the ropes, staggering and struggling for air.

    A very sensible budget from Bill English where Labour have no room to move !~

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  10. doggone7 (818 comments) says:

    When newstalkzb is accused/complimented of being leftist, with Leighton Smith/Mike Hosking/ etc. on board as vehement as ever, it is probably fair to think the compass has been discombobulated. Or at least the holder of it has reached that state.

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  11. Elaycee (4,403 comments) says:

    hj: Surley the public could be better served than paying $150,000 pa to hear Horans opinions?

    Actually, Horan has the same rights to speak as every other member in the house. And he is there because of the number of numpties who voted for the Peters outfit last Election….

    Yeah, I know…. I can’t understand it either. 8O

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  12. Paulus (2,658 comments) says:

    What a pity Guyon Espiner is this morning – he was pathetic trying to show his true socialist colours.

    It was funny to listen to his reverse questions beginning “Don’t you think……” to find that the people he was trying to influence said the opposite of what he was trying to get them to say. Rather sad really as I am sure he is very well paid.

    Mind you his voice pitch is too high – he need lessons – should try Linda Clark as she obviously has time on her hands, and she can teach him to use his voice properly – forgetting what she says though.

    I really think that despite his best intentions his use of the language is very poor – I am sure he is educated, but not in the use of English language.

    Susi Ferguson is better but she goes off at a tangent too often trying to put her views together. Susi – stick to the subject.

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  13. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    “Mind you his voice pitch is too high”

    That’s because he is a Lefty girly-man. ;)

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  14. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    After his appalling performance and his failure to deliver the hit he promised, I wonder if NZF is now a spent force?

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  15. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    Despite all the rhetoric, the facts still speak for themselves – The Government at the top of the economic cycle is still borrowing money but it is now down to $75 million a week, less than the $110 million a week last year. With all these extra lollie scrambles announced, they’ve out-socialised the socialists on the left and as a result they’ve got no-where to go. Good politics but bad for the country as we will continue to borrow money we haven’t got on things we can’t afford.

    And just look at the rhetoric used
    – $10b for early childhood and schools but an “industry-body” claims it is still not enough
    – efforts to cut long term welfare “boosted”….by spending another $100m
    – Transport loses out…….because it doesn’t get any extra money.

    Where does all this money to provide all these “boosts” come from? Well of course it will come from the wealth producers most likely by inflation and it will most likely go into more bureaucrats.

    Just imagine if the media changed it’ rhetoric – instead of providing a “boost” to whatever boondoogle the government throws our money at, it described what the process really is as the government actually doesn’t have any money.

    Imagine if describing cutting taxes as being a “cost to the government” the media described the process as “letting tax-payers keep more of their hard earned money”

    Imagine if the media asked whenever something goes wrong, rather than “what should the government do” it asked, “how can the government get out of the way”.

    If that Statist media mindset and Orwellian rhetoric was changed we may actually move someway towards being one of the most “free” countries in the world which all these studies keep telling us we are supposed to be.

    http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2014/5/15/russia-and-china-move-to-mark-end-of-dollar-era.html

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  16. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Case and effect

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11255679

    Police cite road deaths to oppose cannabis law reform

    The same logic would have alcohol banned immediately Alcohol is responsible for at least 25% of all road deaths and probably far more from consumption days before that doesn’t show in a simple blood test. .

    Having cannabis in your system is not proof that cannabis causes road accidents.
    It shows up in regular users weeks after any effect has worn off. unlike alcohol which will not show up after a day even thought a person is still quantifiable impaired

    That the police continue to oppose the reform of cannabis laws that criminalize a large percentage of the population by this sort of tactics is a distortion of our law making process. The police involved should be censured or sacked it is not the polices role to set the law only to enforce it.

    We create more harm than we prevent with the stupid laws that ignore the Known harms of legally available recreational drugs yet keep less harmful options illegal.

    The same processes should be used to evaluate all drugs ether illegal or legal without the present bias towards the drugs of choice for the majority. Prohibition didn’t work for alcohol it also fails to work for cannabis.

    http://guardianlv.com/2014/05/colorado-marijuana-sales-up-crime-down/

    Five months ago, Colorado made history by being the first state in the US to legalize the possession of small amounts of marijuana. Opponents were worried that this decision would cause an increase in crime rates, but as sales of marijuana have been increasing, instances of crime have actually gone down in the state.

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  17. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    ShawnLH: Wasn’t Espiner a close friend of girlie boy Hughes?

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  18. Elaycee (4,403 comments) says:

    igm: Wasn’t Espiner a close friend of girlie boy Hughes?

    You could say that…..

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783684

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  19. stigie (1,310 comments) says:

    Well said Griff, but you know you will get heaps of down ticks !~

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  20. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Elaycee (4,138 comments) says:
    May 16th, 2014 at 8:36 am

    Horan got there as part of the list – not because anyone particularly voted for him as such (although I’m sure there were probably some that voted NZ1 because they liked him – even if it was just his mother).

    The fact remains, should a list MP, when expelled or leaves the party on whose list they appear, continue to be an MP. I don’t think so, and that goes for all parties. Unless they have won a seat outright, therefore demonstrating that sufficient members of the electorate want them, then they should not be able to continue to hold a seat.

    I’m not sure if it is possible, but if we have to re-elect for individual electorates, perhaps there is some way we can do the same in these circumstances – even if it is just a mail or internet vote.

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  21. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    “Well of course it will come from the wealth producers most likely by inflation and it will most likely go into more bureaucrats.”

    It’s not going to go into more bureaucrats. That’s a silly statement EAD.

    It;s actually going back into the hands of taxpayers, mostly middle NZ with families, who have born the brunt of the needed belt tightening as a result of the GFC. And National has signaled more tax cuts to come during the election campaign.

    And they are doing this in a fiscally prudent way that does not encourage out of control inflation.

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  22. calendar girl (1,261 comments) says:

    EAD: “Transport loses out…….because it doesn’t get any extra money.”

    Aside from a $375m interest-free loan for Auckland roading?

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  23. hj (7,060 comments) says:

    @ Pete George
    The handout mentality didn’t win anything from the election. Many will applaud that.
    ….
    are you saying immigration policy isn’t a hand out (when combined with infrastructure funding and subsidising development levys)?

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  24. Ashley Schaeffer (508 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/10051533/Woman-faces-death-sentence-over-faith

    I’m thinking of kicking off some hashtag activism to raise awareness of this woman’s plight. How about…

    #muslimsaremental
    #shariaisshitty
    #recolonisesudan

    Actually, I think there a quite a few places that could do with recolonising because, let’s face it, they’re just too damn backwards feral to manage their own affairs.

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  25. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    The post-budget whining from the libertarians has reminded me why I ditched that philosophy. Unrealistic, purist ideology does not win elections, and would consign the Right to permanent powerlessness, handing the country over to a Labour/Green/Mana nightmare.

    Conservative gov should be conservative, not radical.

    Would I like to see more spending cuts and more tax cuts? Hell yes. But we have to get there slowly, in a way that takes middle NZ with us.

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  26. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ stigie (673 comments) says:
    May 16th, 2014 at 8:35 am

    I don’t think the budget has left the ‘left’ struggling for air.

    In fact, I think they ALL over-looked a very big part of the electorate – the biggest group of voters there is and that is the baby boomers. Who, apart from concerns for their own children, and grandchildren have concerns of aged health care etc.

    But of more concern is the group of baby boomers that are at the younger end of the cohort. These Boomers are in their 50’s and still have at least 15 years of work ahead of them. BUT, many are finding it difficult to get work. Prevented by govt moves from retraining, many of them are faced with years of unemployment or forced to do work that makes them feel useless and ignored.

    None of the parties addressed the concerns of this large group of voters – nothing targeted them in particular – as one said to me last night – its like they already have us in the grave – BIG mistake, huge mistake to ignore the biggest voter group, but an even bigger mistake to isolate them and make them feel useless and ignored.

    So there is room/ ‘air’ and the question is, who will supply the oxygen tanks quick enough to capture these votes …

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  27. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Conservative is not the only direction on the right .
    I am strongly right wing have some times even been labeled far right yet are not a conservative by any stretch.

    http://www.politicalcompass.org/

    There’s abundant evidence for the need of it. The old one-dimensional categories of ‘right’ and ‘left’, established for the seating arrangement of the French National Assembly of 1789, are overly simplistic for today’s complex political landscape. For example, who are the ‘conservatives’ in today’s Russia? Are they the unreconstructed Stalinists, or the reformers who have adopted the right-wing views of conservatives like Margaret Thatcher ?

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  28. J Bloggs (250 comments) says:

    Griff: The real reason that the lawmakers and enforcers are not going to tackle alcohol in the same way they do cannabis is that they can’t (alcohol industry lobbying is a red herring). Alcohol is just too easy to make in your kitchen. You can get the instructions off the internet to make a still, or homebrew. Everything you need to make alcohol can be found in your local supermarket. If alcohol was as hard to manufacture/acquire as class 1 narcotics, believe me, it would be in that category with them. But the lawmakers (as shown by the US attempt at prohibition) recognise that alcohol is just too easy to make, rendering prohibition useless. So they have to walk that line around trying to control it enough without being so restrictive that making alcohol yourself becomes an attractive option.

    Cannabis and tobacco are substantially harder to acquire and grow in NZ, hence the tighter/tougher action against those substances.

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  29. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    @ calendar girl

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=280

    Headline screams out “PUBLIC TRANSPORT LOSES OUT”

    subheadline reads “Auckland motorways have been paved with gold in the Budget, while not an extra cent has gone to public transport”

    I guess my point was on the way language is used to manipulate the readership and reinforce a particular Statist philosophy – to imply that public transport is “losing out” (by having funding held flat) entrenches the mindset that only endlessly increasing spending by government is good thing and that providing “services” (I use that word loosely) cheaper and more efficiently is bad.

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  30. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Sorry, meant to include this link as supporting information for above post on BB in the workforce.

    http://www.eeotrust.org.nz/content/docs/reports/business_benefits/New%20Zealands%20changing%20age%20profile.pdf

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  31. Scott (1,817 comments) says:

    Once more from the religion of peace – “A Muslim-by-birth Sudanese woman who married a Christian man has been sentenced to death after she refused to recant her Christian faith, her lawyer says.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/10051533/Woman-faces-death-sentence-over-faith

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  32. flipper (4,194 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (2,509 comments) says:

    May 16th, 2014 at 8:56 am

    After his appalling performance and his failure to deliver the
    ******

    Yes, Peters is a spent force.
    Sad to say that the only presentable MP they delivered ion 2011 was Horan. In saying that I make no comment on his gambling habit(s). But think about that sorry lot as they sit in the House watching an inebriated leader. There was a time when the moist outrageous drunk ever to sit in Parliament was a toss-up between Les Munro (Nats) and John Brooks (Lab.), but no more. Either peters is suffering from perpetual intoxication or the effects of a mini stoke.
    The Greens, co led by a whining Australian communist and a McGillicuddy Serious candidate. They actually do present better – until they open their mouths and speak on matters of which they know nothing. On the other hand, apart from a would be “fashion plate”, the Green females are a an advance on Labour whose collection of female grunts almost defies adequate description.

    But we hear this week (was news to me, anyway) that Claudette Hauiti a bottom of the well Nat lister had employed her “wife” of eight years , Nadine. Hauiti certainly rivals the worst of the petersparty2 females and l,abour’s dragons. Not one has done anything to enhance the Parliament.

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  33. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    :lol:
    yip its real hard to chuck a hand full of seeds in the garden
    It a weed that the police at one time spread in the north by confiscating crops with choppers.
    It still grows wild in places if the possums don’t eat it first.
    Then the real hard part you dry it……. lay it on news paper somewhere for a week or so to dry… job done..roll and smoke total input for out-door is about five minutes a plant…

    it’s about the money lots of dirty money provides lots of lobbying .

    The growers and sellers of pot are making a killing because its illegal You will not get the mongrel mob or the black power trying to get it legalized it would destroy their income and the networks they use to sell stolen goods and harder drugs.

    Chatting to people in the former synthetic shops the overwhelming good point about synthetics was not having to associate with the crims to source your recreational drug.

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  34. Longknives (4,855 comments) says:

    Another day, Another drug-addled Stoner telling us that Cannabis is the wonder-drug and doesn’t cause road accidents etc..
    For fuck’s sake guys you would do the ‘Decriminalisation’ movement a huge service if you just stopped bullshitting!
    *I couldn’t care less if Cannabis was decriminalised but I can’t stand all the lies spun by Potheads about their alleged ‘wonder drug’
    “Cannabis is Harmless” “Cannabis has never caused any deaths” “Cannabis cures Cancer” etc etc all fucking bollocks!
    Just tell the truth for once fellas- Cannabis is a drug..and (just like alcohol) it has some nasty consequences (flying a Hot Air Balloon into Power lines for example…)
    Joe Public like me would have far more sympathy for your cause if you simply stopped bullshitting us about your beloved ‘Sacred Herb’…

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  35. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    “I don’t think the budget has left the ‘left’ struggling for air.”

    Judith, when it comes to Jk and the Nats, the only true part of that statement is “I don’t think”

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  36. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ griffith (968 comments) says:
    May 16th, 2014 at 9:41 am

    Legal highs were being mixed with illegal highs and resold on – catching the unaware who thought they were give being given a better cheaper/deal on the legal stuff. Once hooked on the product – the price goes up and by then they don’t care if its legal or not, they just want it.

    Legal highs were also a gateway drug, perhaps even more so because of the ability to trap the vulnerable by the apparent legitimacy.

    Scum dealers are great at adapting to circumstances. Many would make great business men if they used the same principles positively.

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  37. Komata (1,196 comments) says:

    Judith @0920

    Your comment about ‘Boomers being unable to find meaningful, worthwhile work’ is correct, and very frustrating, especially when it’s the ‘Bright young things’ (invariably, female), who are telling us that (although not directly – they wouldn’t dare). Degrees and ‘life experience’ are no longer considered attributes that are worthwhile, and, indeed, are frequently objects of derision when presented to ‘recruiters’, many of whom don’t have similar (or, indeed, any) qualifications themselves ( a minor detail, of course). Most of us in that group eventually ‘pull our heads in’ and go on living and economising. It’s what we have learnt to do. Unfortunately, the work situation is not going to change any time soon, but we still go on looking. What IS noticeable is that all the ‘responsible’ (albeit menial in some cases) jobs are now being done by ‘Boomers; evidently they are the only ones reliable enough to employ……

    And as far as ‘oxygen’ is concerned, despite NZF’s evident success with some members of that generation, I suspect many ‘Boomers have been around long-enough and have sufficiently-long memories to be able to determine their ‘party of choice’, and to see the ‘bribes’ when they are presented for what they are. Although many may have been ‘radical’ in their younger years, with age and experience, ‘Conservatism’ (in its best sense), and ‘steady as she goes’, combined with fiscal prudence, tends to resonate with such people. It makes for a relatively easy choice.

    It’s an interesting aspect which will get absolutely no MSM airtime. Thanks for airing it.

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  38. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (2,514 comments) says:
    May 16th, 2014 at 9:48 am

    Personal attacks – great if you can also attack the essence of the opinion. I note however you seem unable to do that?
    Are you saying that the BBers aren’t the biggest group of voters, or that the budget did cover their concerns about employment etc? If so, how so?

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  39. srylands (414 comments) says:

    It has been interesting to watch the ACT Party Vote share stock on ipredict in recent weeks. It is now at 3.6%.

    https://www.ipredict.co.nz/app.php?do=contract_detail&contract=VOTE.2014.ACT

    I think that would translate to 5 MPs with an electorate seat.

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  40. Ross12 (1,453 comments) says:

    This was highlighted on W/O but I’ll link to the source. Very interesting comments by Karl du Fresne

    http://karldufresne.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/this-could-get-interesting.html

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  41. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Still the same old crap I see longknifes
    Still bleating about the crash without any proof… in fact going against the evidence presented at the inquest…..how many have died defiantly since then in piss fueled crashes or been killed maimed or had their lives destroyed since by piss?..thousands .every week end fifty percent plus of A&E admissions are from alcohol…. Over half of all violent crime is piss fueled…. these are uncontroversial facts not blind and unjustified speculation about one accident. The message is not that pot is good or safe its just less damaging than alcohol….

    You are a one eyed drunken loser sooner or later you will have negative effects from you stinking drug if you haven’t already.

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  42. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Gate way drug. hooked. spiking :lol: you are talking about something you have absolutely no idea about there Judith…

    You will not pass of synthetics as pot they are very different it would be like selling wine as beer.
    if synthetics are that addictive why haven’t there been a massive spike in addiction admissions in the last week as tens of thousands of addicted users suffer from withdrawal? Because its all emotive based crap from uniformed idiots with a borrow to push.

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  43. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Komata (1,014 comments) says:
    May 16th, 2014 at 9:57 am

    I totally agree with you, regarding the ‘oxygen’, and suspect that many boomers are too astute to be sucked in by bribes, especially those with false bottoms.

    I am not so sure about the conservatism in some areas. Many BBers have made their way in the world by forcing change. Yes, in the past it was radical, but still they are making changes where they can, and one of those is by requesting to be able to contribute as long as possible, unlike the previous generation who was happy to retire when told they should. I know I have lined my dots up so I can work until at least 80, should I wish to. Many of us have seen our parents wither away once retired and do not want that for ourselves.

    And that is one characteristic that needs to be addressed. Whilst we are generally more conservative because of our maturity we are also a generation that tends to expect to have alternatives, and do not like being told ‘no’. Having the door closed in our faces, preventing us from working in positions that make us feel like we are contributing in a viable manner (no packing groceries does not do it for someone that was previously a professional, it does not make them feel viable) – is not acceptable. Just as being ignored is also not acceptable.

    Many BBers have been forced from good positions over the last 15 years. Some have skills that are no longer of use, and there is a need for them, who still have at least 10 years working life ahead of them to upskill etc. Closing the door on them, forcing them to pack groceries or worst still, be unemployed and on welfare, is not going to get their vote.

    The political parties might not want to address it – but if they don’t I believe they are not doing their job. By not addressing it because of the ill feeling over the Baby Boomer cohort by subsequent generations who feel like they have had their inheritance stolen by the generation, is ignoring a large percentage of the population, that like it or not, have the right to be included – most are still large tax payers.

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  44. wikiriwhis business (4,115 comments) says:

    Quad bike helmet fine ‘unjustifiable’

    A Rai Valley dairy farmer says a $15,000 fine handed out to a Marlborough farmhand for not wearing a helmet while riding a quad bike is “absolutely bloody ridiculous”.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/10051594/Quad-bike-helmet-fine-unjustifiable

    State fascism is enlarging by leaps and bounds.

    This is naked enslavement

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  45. wikiriwhis business (4,115 comments) says:

    “- Transport loses out…….because it doesn’t get any extra money.”

    Because transport enriched ACC payments into the hundreds of millions
    through the state theft of registrations.

    ACC needs to be hit up big time

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  46. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ griffith (970 comments) says:
    May 16th, 2014 at 10:21 am

    having worked with many offenders, I am more than aware of the drug problems that occur, and have also been privy to many examples of how these things work.

    You are not going to see any withdrawal signs for sometime and certainly not in the next few weeks. Many shops, knowing their products were to be disposed of, if not previously sold, dropped their prices and got rid of large amounts of stock. Sufficient for any addicted young person to have supplies for some time yet, not to mention of course that a great deal will still be available through other methods.

    Spiking, not so much, for the reason you give. But there is strong evidence that when a person presents to purchase a legal high, they were demonstrating a desire to ‘get high’ – in which case samples of other ‘products’ were given for them to try and so on by those observing such purchases. We all know where it goes from there.

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  47. J Bloggs (250 comments) says:

    yip its real hard to chuck a hand full of seeds in the garden

    That part is easy (although given the results of my efforts at gardening, maybe easier to say that do…lol). The hard part, at this point in time, is getting hold of the seeds in the first place. As someone who is not a user of cannabis, I wouldn’t have the first idea of how to go about getting seeds to grow my own.

    OTOH, I know I can find instructions on how to make alcohol on the ‘net. And I can buy all the ingredients required at the local supermarket.

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  48. Igotta Numbum (465 comments) says:

    Fenton leaving…. writing on the wall stuff.

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  49. Odakyu-sen (732 comments) says:

    ”Net Government debt is expected to peak at $66 billion in 2016-17, or 26 per cent of GDP.” according to the Herald today.

    I checked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt for a comparison between NZ and other trading partners. According to this reference (IMF figures), gross gov. debt as a % of GDP is

    NZ: 38.15%
    UK: 90.3%
    US: 106.5%
    Japan: 237.9%

    NZ public debt is far lower as a % than that of some other nations (for now). I hope the government will fully appreciate the old maxim that “debt is a good slave but a poor master” and apply the tool of borrowing prudently.

    Japan, on the other hand, is going to face a whole lot of pain as its tax base shrinks (with an aging population) and pension commitments grow.
    Watching the Japanese economic progress is like watching a Steven King thriller: right up until the end of the movie you’re on the edge of your seat wondering just how in the hell they are going to get out of this mess, and then at the last moment it is revealed that they really won’t. (And then you get this horrible depressing feeling, which is why I don’t watch movies based on Steven King’s works any more.)

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  50. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    J Bloggs

    ….”As someone who is not a user of cannabis, I wouldn’t have the first idea of how to go about getting seeds to grow my own.”….

    If you were of a mind to grow your own, the same “net” would provide instructions & your local garden centre would provide everything you needed to make your crop a success.

    There’s one difference & one only…..you wouldn’t have the state sponsored police breaking down your door to confiscate your home brew.

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  51. calendar girl (1,261 comments) says:

    EAD @ 9:30am – thanks for the explanation. I agree with your general point. If any part of “transport” needs a bit of help from the public purse its roading, in Auckland in particular but in other places too like Wellington’s northern corridor.

    The NZ Herald’s ““PUBLIC TRANSPORT LOSES OUT” theme also presumably ignores another $198m for Kiwirail?

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  52. wikiriwhis business (4,115 comments) says:

    “theme also presumably ignores another $198m for Kiwirail?”

    Which the bulk will probably go into new ferries

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  53. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    :lol:
    Ive seen junkies who need a fix. I have seen someone stick a needle into their armpit and fish around for one of the few remaining veins Ive seen the result of infections from dirty needles turn arms black. Ive also sen normal people who can not make it a day without drink.. people who get the shakes if they don’t have the daily dose. believe me there is no addiction of any significance to synthetics or pot besides the physiological dependence when compared to even tobacco.
    I know ex long term pot smokers who have given up just like that no problem never smoking again. One day a heavy user to totally clean with no issues or withdrawal symptoms. Ive stopped it my self at least twice.. again didn’t even notice any symptoms.

    Alcohol be honest Judith how many of your friends or colleges have had their lives destroyed? I bet you can honestly name friends or relatives who have suffered or died as direct result of drinking.

    The message is relative harm…

    pot doesn’t cause as many problems to users or those around them as alcohol this is a quantifiable fact..

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  54. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    I see the “whining” Libertarian and “Austrian school ” crybabies are out in force during and post budget. What an arrogant and presumptuous bunch. Their purist chaotic anarchist ideology is totally unworkable and like Communism belongs to the dustbin of history.
    There’s no way like the National Party way.!

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  55. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Espiner must back both ways.

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  56. Longknives (4,855 comments) says:

    “I know ex long term pot smokers who have given up just like that no problem never smoking again……Ive stopped it my self at least twice.. ”

    Comedic brilliance!

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  57. wreck1080 (3,956 comments) says:

    Despite the british economy, 1 in 10 of all adults have net worth of 2 million nzd, and 20% of degree holders eventually get 2 million or more.

    I never realised the british were that wealthy.

    Wonder how the figures work out in NZ.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/10834895/One-in-five-university-graduates-become-millionaires.html

    “Twenty per cent of all adults who hold at least one university degree — more than two million people — now have wealth totalling at least £1 million, data from the Office for National Statistics show.
    Almost a tenth of all British adults now own assets — property, pensions, savings and physical objects — worth £1 million or more.

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  58. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    Go to Google & type [domestic violence alcohol cannabis] There’ll be no shortage of hits…..two examples….

    Ref 1): http://www.alternet.org/drugs/alcohol-fuels-domestic-violence-while-marijuana-doesnt-guess-which-one-feds-are-demonizing

    Ref 2): http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140127112733.htm

    Yet it is cannabis use that is targeted….go figure.

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  59. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    wiki, its not state fascism The person in question had been observed numerous times driving his quad bike with his children without helmets . Farmers and the community had been adequately warned about a pending crackdown on quad bike safety and many farmers support the imposition of the fine.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/rural/244485/quad-bike-fine-draws-mixed-response

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  60. lilman (965 comments) says:

    Thank god Fenton is going,a complete waste of money and space.

    But cant help thinking after 3 terms she will milk the taxpayer for years to come on perks and cheap flights.

    The fact the system allows this is bad, if not state funded corruption.

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  61. J Bloggs (250 comments) says:

    naaska: I agree that I could get the instructions off the net, and the equipment legally – but I can’t get the seeds from the local garden centre (on the basis that it is currently illegal to sell them).

    The point I’m trying to make, is that if you made alcohol illegal in the same manner as cannabis is, I could buy everything I need to produce alcohol legally – there is no point in the production cycle where the raw materials are illegal to obtain, and no way of making them so. Which is why prohibition for alcohol is always destined to fail, hence the reason no-one seriously tries to do it.

    I’m not saying that alcohol is better or worse than cannabis, just that the strategies in place currently to control cannabis cannot be applied to alcohol because of the fundamental differences between the creation of the two substances.

    I’ll also add that the potential harm from illicitly produced alcohol is far greater than the harm from legally produced alcohol (due to the greater likelyhood of contamination with methyl alcohol in the production process)

    And yes, if alcohol prohibition was introduced, I’d fully expect the state sponsored police to break down my door and confiscate my homebrew – have you never watched “The Untouchables”? :D

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  62. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    J Bloggs

    I’ll accept that producing alcohol is not beyond anyone with a room temperature IQ & access to a supermarket. I can recall my boarding school days when we used to brew a concoction using apples from the orchard, sugar from the dining room & raisins as a fermenting agent. It wasn’t very potent but neither were we hardened pissheads & it gave a spark to mundane college socials. :)

    BUT I’m not really arguing for alcohol prohibition. Rather I’m pushing for the state to back off from cannabis prohibition on the basis that the latter is a lesser evil than the former & in any case it is not the government’s function to protect us from ourselves.

    If your point is that the public should be protected from the anti-social actions of those who use alcohol or cannabis then you’ll get no argument from me. The police & the courts already have the power needed for this & it is up to them to sort out those who step over the line.

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  63. Harriet (5,112 comments) says:

    “……It appears that Little and his union henchmen must have pulled some strings………what the hell do these leeching lefties expect taxpayers to give them now?….”

    If the former kiwi and unionist Craig Thompson is anyone to go by – then it is cigarettes, booze and blowjobs! :cool:

    [Albeit he used the fees from union members and not tax – but the behaviour is the same. ]

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  64. Ashley Schaeffer (508 comments) says:

    Sad to see Fenton retiring. Talent like that is what is keeping Labour on the opposition benches.

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  65. Harriet (5,112 comments) says:

    “…….Ive stopped it[pot] my self at least twice…………… again didn’t even notice any symptoms….”

    We always notice them Griff. :cool:

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  66. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    I did consider that being taken wrong long knifes I just thought that any one not fucked in the helmet would understand my statement …….
    go figure.

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  67. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    “A Sudanese court gave a 27-year-old woman who is eight-months pregnant with her second child, until Thursday to abandon her newly adopted Christian faith and return to Islam or face a death sentence. 
Mariam Yahya Ibrahim was charged with apostasy as well as adultery for marrying a Christian man, something prohibited for Muslim women to do and which makes the marriage void. 
The final ruling will be announced on later today. Ibrahim’s case was the first of its kind to be heard in Sudan.
    On February 7, 2014, Meriam was arrested, with her 20-month-old son, and put in a women’s prison. She had not been charged nor did she receive a fair trial. 
A relative had turned her in to the police for marrying a Christian. According to the Sudan’s Public Order Criminal Code. 
Meriam is a Muslim by default because she was born in Sudan.
    Thus, her marriage to a Christian is a criminal act. 
On March 4th, Meriam was charged with adultery and apostasy. 
The adultery charge came with a punishment of 100 lashes. 
The apostasy charge came with a punishment of death. As it stands, Meriam will be put to death following the birth of her second child.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628895/Sudanese-wom
an-eight-months-pregnant-flogged-death-unless-she.html

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  68. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Do you harry it
    haven’t smoked pot in months :lol:
    I actually get more verbous in my posting and a lot less abusive when I am stoned.

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  69. ciaron (1,441 comments) says:

    Serious question:

    Is there any situation where it is legal to stop a vehicle on the side of the road, when that road has a broken yellow ‘no stopping’ lines?

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  70. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    Despite the british economy, 1 in 10 of all adults have net worth of 2 million nzd, and 20% of degree holders eventually get 2 million or more.

    I never realised the british were that wealthy.

    Wonder how the figures work out in NZ.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/10834895/One-in-five-university-graduates-become-millionaires.html

    “Twenty per cent of all adults who hold at least one university degree — more than two million people — now have wealth totalling at least £1 million, data from the Office for National Statistics show.
    Almost a tenth of all British adults now own assets — property, pensions, savings and physical objects — worth £1 million or more.

    Take their house out of the wealth equation and they would be stoney broke. Forced saving by paying a mortgage is great but it aint really wealth.

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  71. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Colville, I agree. And all that money tied up in housing is unproductive debt.

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  72. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    I actually get more verbous in my posting and a lot less abusive when I am stoned.

    I seldom drink at home, but if I do and check KB, I get all lovey-dovey and want to be nice to people. Sickening ! ;)

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  73. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Ashley Schaeffer (353 comments) says:
    May 16th, 2014 at 11:47 am

    Going by that reasoning, one has to ask, what talent was it that kept National on the opposition benches for three terms in a row?

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  74. Lucia Maria (2,606 comments) says:

    Scott and Stephieboy,

    That story on that poor woman who is going to be killed for her Christian faith demonstrates quite clearly why Islam is an evil religion. I remember reading that even in very moderate Muslim countries, there is still a percentage of people who believe apostates should be put to death.

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  75. virtualmark (1,536 comments) says:

    Darien Fenton’s standing down. Labour will be able to replace her with a woman, help get their gender balance sorted. #manban :)

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  76. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    “A Sudanese court gave a 27-year-old woman who is eight-months pregnant with her second child, until Thursday to abandon her newly adopted Christian faith

    jewish world

    ‘Modesty Patrol lynched me’

    Elderly Jerusalem woman brutalized by thugs who evidently thought she was a missionary; police source: Assailants wanted to send a message

    A 70-year-old ultra-Orthodox woman found herself the target of a brutal religious hate crime on Monday night, when four thugs broke into her home and beat her up before leaving her handcuffed and bleeding.

    “They were sent by the Modesty Patrol,” the woman, S., told Yedioth Ahronoth. “They told me, ‘You are destroying the neighborhood with you missionary teachings.”

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4196645,00.html

    [stupidboy thinks this is a-ok because only “some” people do it. In fact the fundamentalist Jews are the fastest growing group in Israel today. Kea thinks this sort of religious brutality is always wrong, regardless of if they are rag heads or yids.]

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  77. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Hi Lucy, still trying hate and lie your way to paradise I see. :)

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  78. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    Lucia Maria

    Just goes to show what decent, misunderstood types we atheists are. You’ll never hear us advocate for stoning or putting people to death for not following the “right” version of the crap.

    Rather we gentle peace lovers only want you religious nuts to keep it to yourselves. :)

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  79. ciaron (1,441 comments) says:

    That’s not entirely honest nasska. Some of your fellow atheists insist that we not simply keep it to ourselves, some insist that we give it up altogether.

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  80. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    List of Israeli price tag attacks

    This is a list of attacks reported as being part of or suspected as being part of the price tag policy (Hebrew: מדיניות תג מחיר). This policy refers to acts of random violence aimed at the Palestinian population and Israeli security forces[1] by radical Israeli settlers, who, according to the New York Times, “exact a price from local Palestinians or from the Israeli security forces for any action taken against their settlement enterprise”.[2][3][4] The Wall Street Journal states that the term refers to “a campaign of retribution by fundamentalist Israeli youths against Palestinians in the West Bank”.[5] Over the period from January 2012 to June 2013, Israeli police registered 788 cases of suspected price tag assaults in which 276 arrests were conducted, leading to 154 indictments.[6]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_price_tag_attacks

    Price tag’ attacks draw calls for stronger response
    Ongoing nationalistically motivated vandalism on Arab mosques and property condemned by top politicians

    Read more: ‘Price tag’ attacks draw calls for stronger response | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/price-tag-attacks-draw-calls-for-stronger-response/#ixzz31pm7TIzY
    Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook

    Church defaced in Jerusalem in suspected ‘price tag’ hate attack
    Words ‘Jesus [is] garbage’ spray-painted on wall; ‘Death to Arabs’ graffiti also found on another street in the cit

    Read more: Church defaced in Jerusalem in suspected ‘price tag’ hate attack | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/church-defaced-in-jerusalem-in-suspected-price-tag-attack/#ixzz31pmIIgLd
    Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook

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  81. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    No Stopping lines do not prevent vehicles from being parked to the left of the markings where there is no kerb, eg on a verge. However, a No Stopping sign relates to the full width of the road reserve and prohibits vehicles from being parked on a verge to the left of the roadway (see figure 6.3).
    http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/traffic-control-devices-manual/part-13-parking-control/6-2-markings.html

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  82. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Christians Feel Growing Oppression in Israel

    The spitting is especially a problem for priests and pastors who stand out with their clerical garb. Where these Christians regularly meet Ultra-Orthodox Jews, insulting, spitting and even cursing occurs.

    Some priests declared that they have been subject to spitting for years now. It is not only Christian institutions that are targeted, Islamic and other non-Jewish institutions also suffer from such attacks. An Armenian priest declared in one of the newspapers, “It’s almost impossible to pass through Jaffa Gate without this spitting happening.”

    https://www.opendoorsusa.org/pray/prayer-updates/2012/March/Christians-Feel-Growing-Oppression-in-Israel

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  83. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    ….” Some of your fellow atheists insist that we not simply keep it to ourselves, some insist that we give it up altogether.”…..

    You’ll never get me pushing that line ciaron. It’s been proved time & time again that driving the hocus pocus underground makes it a “forbidden fruit” & risks creating martyrs.

    Totally counter productive….I’d rather you nuts kept it quietly in the open until you bore yourselves rigid. :)

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  84. Ross12 (1,453 comments) says:

    Can someone please explain this headline “Budget: $145m annual cost of asset sales – Greens ” ( On Yahoo News –the article doesn’t make sense to me)

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  85. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Popcorn :lol:

    :arrow: Troll (for posting facts)

    :arrow: Nazi ”

    :arrow: Anti-semite ”

    :arrow: Refusal to condemn wrong doing done by Jews.

    :arrow: Attempt to minimise the problem of Jewish extremists.

    :arrow: Lie for Gods chosen ones.

    :arrow: Spread hate

    :arrow: Point out that only some Jews behave this way and the government does not officially approve.

    :arrow: Do not do the above for Muslims and lie that all Muslims and their governments approve of such things.

    :arrow: Go to heaven

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  86. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    Various punishments implemented under Sharia Law including lashings, hangings, stoning to death and burying In Iran and elsewhere,

    Kea , pah for the course under your religion of peace.

    Warning viewer discretion is advised.!

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  87. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    stupidboy, Yes it is terrible the things done for religion. Did you catch my news reports of the filthy yid animals ? This is against a background of racial hatred in a country that requires medical tests to see if you are Racially Pure enough to live there. Even there own human rights groups have strongly condemned Israel for its terrible treatment of our Black Brothers. Its just awful.

    I am sure you will join me in condemning this. Good to find some common ground, don’t you think ?

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  88. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    And Pat Condell is spot on yet gain on the Idiocy of Islam a religion he reasonably believes equates with violence ,

    The idiocy of Islam,

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  89. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    How the Jews Treat Christians in Israel – It’s Serious!

    Warning viewer discretion is advised.!

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  90. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Jewish ‘modesty patrols’ sow fear in Israel

    Some terrified that mere perception of impropriety could ruin their lives

    JERUSALEM – In Israel’s ultra-Orthodox Jewish community, where the rule of law sometimes takes a back seat to the rule of God, zealots are on a campaign to stamp out behavior they consider unchaste. They hurl stones at women for such “sins” as wearing a red blouse and attack stores selling devices that can access the Internet.

    In recent weeks, self-styled “modesty patrols” have been accused of breaking into the apartment of a Jerusalem woman and beating her for allegedly consorting with men. They have torched a store that sells MP4 players, fearing devout Jews would use them to download pornography.

    “These breaches of purity and modesty endanger our community,” said 38-year-old Elchanan Blau, defending the bearded, black-robed zealots. “If it takes fire to get them to stop, then so be it.”

    – See more at: http://www.violenceisnotourculture.org/content/jewish-%E2%80%98modesty-patrols%E2%80%99-sow-fear-israel#sthash.iqriBxvv.dpuf

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  91. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    kea, you just provide the evidence of public executions,- stonings hangings beheadings and lashings , whippings etc in the State of Israel as per the aforesaid video.
    Then we can talk business in a manner of speaking.
    Right.?

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  92. Jack5 (5,145 comments) says:

    Here’s a bone for General Debate’s religious warriors to gnaw on. I see they are already at it.

    This is about a pregant, 27-year-old Sudanese woman, a doctor, who is allegedly to be flogged to death for her relationship with a Christian!

    Seconds out of the ring!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628895/Sudanese-woman-eight-months-pregnant-flogged-death-unless-she.html

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  93. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    stupidboy, okay lets not clutter GD today and consider other readers. We can end this right now by simply stating the following.

    :arrow: I Kea condemn the brutality of Muslim extremists and totally oppose them. In the exact same way as I oppose such actions by ALL groups of people, both atheist and theist.

    Now your turn stupidboy. Condemn the wrong doing of Jews ….(not “jews” just the wrong doing, ya know, like you do for Muslims daily)

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  94. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    Kea (11,677 comments) says:
    May 16th, 2014 at 12:50 pm
    How the Jews Treat Christians in Israel – It’s Serious!

    “Warning viewer discretion is advised.!”

    A joke and a lie.! I wonder if your presenter would take hi same kind of questions to a public execution or flogging In Iran or Saudi Arabia.?
    Of course not.!

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  95. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    “kea, you just provide the evidence of public executions,- stonings hangings beheadings and lashings , whippings etc in the State of Israel as per the aforesaid video.”

    Haredim stone, pour bleach on woman: Haredi Ultra-Orthodox

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8sWsSJfDzY

    In June 2008, a modesty patrol in Beitar Illit was suspected of spilling acid on a teenage girl for wearing trousers[8][9]

    In August 2008, the Israel State Prosecutor’s office indicted seven men, allegedly from a Jerusalem modesty squad, for beating a woman and threatening her with death regarding her relationships with men. The ringleader was charged with conspiracy to commit a crime, aggravated assault, and extortion. In the same month, a man said to be a member of a chastity squad was arrested for alleged involvement in the torching of a store selling MP4 players.[10]

    In February 2012, a 70-year-old haredi woman was attacked and beaten in her home by a Modesty Patrol who suspected her of being a Christian missionary.[11]

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  96. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    stupidboy, enough !

    Do you condemn the actions of the Jewish radicals, as I have done the Muslims unreservedly, or not ?

    :arrow: Yes or No ?

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  97. ciaron (1,441 comments) says:

    Thaks griff,
    your answer and link show that it is not legal to park to the right of a broken yellow line.

    part two of my question:

    Does having a cycle lane to the right of a broken yellow line (so that the broken yellow line would be considered within the cycle lane) enable a vehicle to park in the cycle lane?

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  98. johnwellingtonwells (137 comments) says:

    Tasman district police spokeswoman Barbara Dunn said police received reports from the approaching plane that it could not get its landing gear down.

    Police were “preparing for an emergency landing at Greymouth,” she said.

    “But prior to landing they did manage to get their gear down.”

    Whose gear?

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  99. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    kea, of course I do , but qualified by the fact that you are comparing apples with oranges. Yes there are zealots and extremists on both sides but with the important difference the Israeli Government does not condone the actions of its variety including the alleged pouring of bleach .But the iran and Saudi, Sudanese Governments do with those barbaric public executions and floggings etc.
    It’s time for them and others to realize that this is the 21st century not the 11th century.
    A constructive first step would be to remove Apostasy, Adultery, Sorcery and witchcraft as capital offenses. And forbid public executions.

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  100. wreck1080 (3,956 comments) says:

    Rolf Harris member of the mongrel mob?

    Harris ‘barked like dog before groping me’, woman claims

    Rolf Harris groped a teenage girl at an Its a Celebrity Knockout event after she came across him crouched on all fours barking at a dog, a court heard yesterday.

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  101. Longknives (4,855 comments) says:

    Stuff is reporting sixty smelly, rent-a-mob Protesters at Sky City-

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10052733/PM-John-Key-defends-equality-after-rowdy-protest

    The lefty Herald is claiming there were “hundreds”-

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11256215

    Just wait until Katie Bradford reports on it tonight, by then there will have been thousands…

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  102. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (4,095 comments) says:
    May 16th, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    Why would Katie Bradford report what wasn’t true?

    There were certainly a few there from what I saw on the news, enough to warrant a large police presence.

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  103. Manolo (14,029 comments) says:

    Malingerers and losers in life. That’s exactly what these people are.
    By the way, you wouldn’t find an employable soul among that mob.

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  104. Elaycee (4,403 comments) says:

    @Longknives (2.33pm). On the money!

    One of the office staff has just returned to Newmarket and said she had seen the protest at Sky City. Someone else pointed out the Hoorald reported there were ‘hundreds’ protesting and she burst out laughing. She said there was as many media as there were placard wavers and if there was more than a hundred people in total (excluding the SCEG Security people and the Police presence), she will shout morning tea next Friday.

    If the Hoorald is true to form, I think her money is safe. :D

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  105. Manolo (14,029 comments) says:

    Stephie will be worried: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2629288/Bill-Clinton-reveals-took-Hillary-six-months-work-accident.html

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  106. wikiriwhis business (4,115 comments) says:

    ” farmers support the imposition of the fine.”

    @ 15,000 the farmers are fascist themselves.

    They even make truckies who deliver to their farms have haircuts.

    They police state. No doubt about it

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  107. wikiriwhis business (4,115 comments) says:

    Just been reading up on the possibilities of time travel when I came upon this scripted statement from Star Trek: Next generation.

    “had an example of what Data called “quantum realities.” His exact words on the matter were “But there is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen do happen in alternate quantum realities”, suggesting the writers were thinking of the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.”

    Which means foolish alternatives happen which rules out alternative realities.

    I also have the feeling SouthPark could be the most genius rubbish TV made. Surely a debate with The Simpsons of course.

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  108. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    That story on that poor woman who is going to be killed for her Christian faith demonstrates quite clearly why Islam is an evil religion.

    It’s not for certain, vows made under duress don’t matter, she can say whatever the fascists tell her to say and then just walk away.

    If you can show me where the Quran says that people are born Muslim then you have a point, until then you are just another ignorant bigot.

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  109. wikiriwhis business (4,115 comments) says:

    Media uses same person’s pic as a victim of Sandy Hook and Boston Marathon bombing….unbelievable.

    https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=545901172192935&set=a.508438032605916.1073742157.114896831960040&type=1&theater

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  110. TheContrarian (1,091 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business believes some conspiracy photo he saw to be genuine without actually checking for supporting evidence…not really that unbelievable at all.

    http://wafflesatnoon.com/sandy-hook-boston-marathon-victim/

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  111. Scott Chris (6,176 comments) says:

    Just been reading up on the possibilities of time travel

    I travel in time – at approximately 60 minutes per hour into the future depending upon my velocity relative to the rest of the universe.

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  112. Scott Chris (6,176 comments) says:

    Just been reading up on the possibilities of time travel

    Or you can go back in time and leave a comment on an old thread – such as Dr Cullen’s surplus projections

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  113. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    Scott Chris

    You’ve forgotten the other proponents of time travel. I refer of course to the CCCP ….it seems that their campaign vehicle will be a Tardis modelled on an Italian WW2 tank.

    One forward & four reverse gears. :)

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  114. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    I’ve even got a new campaign slogan for the Conservatives….

    ….”We’ll take you backwards faster” should pull the punters in. :)

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  115. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    I have a new campaign slogan for Liberals.

    “We’ll take you forwards faster, and follow the rest of the sheep over the cliff.” :)

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  116. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/World_line.svg/481px-World_line.svg.png

    time travel ?

    E / m = c2 = 89,875,517,873,681,764 J/kg

    …. not possible within the constraints of our known universe and the human body.

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  117. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    “Do you condemn the actions of the Jewish radicals, as I have done the Muslims unreservedly, or not ?”

    Liar.

    Every time Muslim crimes come up on this blog you desperately try to change the subject. That’s not condemning them at all. On the thread about the condemning to death of a pregnant women by a Muslim state for exercising her religious freedom, you have not made one condemnatory statement. Instead your just ranting about Judaism and Israel again. Why? Because you couldn’t care less about her. The horror of her situation is just a happy opportunity for Kea to get in some daily trolling and ranting.

    To put it mildly, that is seriously sick, and suggests you should be on some kind of medication.

    And Stephie is right. Whatever it’s faults, not a single Islamic state anywhere in the world has anything like the level of openness, democracy and freedom that Israel does. Not one.

    If I convert from Judaism to Islam or Christianity or Buddhism in Israel my life will not be in any danger whatsoever. It would be in 95% of Muslim countries.

    Trying to claim that Israel is no different than Islamic states is just stupid and ill-informed drivel.

    Almost as stupid and il-informed as claiming that Muslims are mentioned in the Bible! :)

    Your commentary on this blog is just a mess of ignorant, ill-informed and mindless trolling.

    You don’t care about the issues you rant about at all. Your just doing the blog equivalent of jerking off for your own sad and pathetic amusement.

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  118. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Lazar Stankov, a visiting professor at Singapore’s National Institute of Education, published “Conservatism and Cognitive Ability” earlier this year in the peer-reviewed journal Intelligence. Here is a quote from the article’s abstract:

    Conservatism and cognitive ability are negatively correlated … At the individual level of analysis, conservatism scores correlate negatively with SAT, vocabulary, and analogy test scores. At the national level of analysis, conservatism scores correlate negatively with measures of education … and performance on mathematics and reading assessments.

    Provocative, yes. But two important caveats are needed. First, by “conservatism” Stankov does not necessarily mean people who favor free market economics. He has in mind a kind of traditionalism probably best described as social conservatism:

    The Conservative syndrome describes a person who attaches particular importance to the respect of tradition, humility, devoutness and moderation; as well as to obedience, self-discipline and politeness, social order, family, and national security; and has a sense of belonging to and a pride in a group with which he or she identifies. A Conservative person also subscribes to conventional religious beliefs and accepts the mystical, including paranormal, experiences.

    http://www.american.com/archive/2009/october/are-liberals-smarter-than-conservatives

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  119. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Shorn, you do not decide the topic on GD. Not withstanding the fact it is NEVER Kea the “Trolllllll” who raises the topic of religion each and every bloody day. I have condemned the actions of Muslim radical without reservation and I do so again.

    Now:

    “Do you condemn the actions of the Jewish radicals, as I have done the Muslims unreservedly, or not ?”

    Almost as stupid and il-informed as claiming that Muslims are mentioned in the Bible!

    So you keep saying. In fact you say it daily. Can you show where I actually said that. Or did you simply lie in defence of “god chosen master race ” ?

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  120. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    The most ardent conservatives in NZ form the original rump of the Labour Party Griff.

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  121. mikenmild (11,655 comments) says:

    Anyone see that movie about time travel: ‘Safety Not Guranteed’? Brilliant!

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  122. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Kea as you are quite good at blatantly misquoting and regularly do so why are you upset at spawn? all he has done is used your own method against you. imitation is a form of flattery…..

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  123. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    kea, of course I do , but qualified by the fact that you are comparing apples with oranges. Yes there are zealots and extremists on both sides but with the important difference the Israeli Government does not condone the actions of its variety including the alleged pouring of bleach

    :arrow: “of course I do” What ?

    :arrow: Not certain what difference the govt makes in the victims minds. But what evidence can you produce that Muslim govts approve of acid attacks etc ?

    Just the evidence thanks. I have already heard the abuse thanks stupidboy.

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  124. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    griff, get a life trooooolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll. If you have something to contribute to the – topic – then say it or shut up :)

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  125. Longknives (4,855 comments) says:

    Did anyone else see the handful of smelly,unwashed rent-a-mob lefties protesting outside Sky City on tonight’s news?
    I saw the same old unwashed faces I see at every televised protest- Some hippie bleating from Greenpeace, a few Mana flags waving about and some spotty student moaning that National “Doesn’t care about the Arts”…all amidst the usual cries of “Police Brutality” when they rightfully get told to back off..

    Useless Parasites the lot of them- I wonder if any of them have ever done a days work or contributed to society in their entire worthless lives??

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  126. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (9,820 comments) says:
    May 16th, 2014 at 6:11 pm

    What about “Vote Conservatives and make New Zealand the place that time forgot?”

    Or “Colin Craig, the real retro deal”

    Ok, I’ll go and eat pudding now … :-)

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  127. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    The lack of support for the god addled Conservatives shows just what a tiny loony fringe group people like Yawn & Stupidboy represent. Decent society shuns them in the same way they shun the people they themselves are so critcal of.

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  128. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    National still has a core of catlicking conservatism that holds it in the past.

    Sir Roger D was labor from a fine line of labor MPs . grand father was William Theophilus “Bill” Anderton father Norman Vazey Douglas,brother Malcolm Douglas. all labor MPs…

    Douglas grew up in a state house in Ewenson Avenue, One Tree Hill, Auckland. He attended Ellerslie Primary School, excelling in arithmetic and sports. I actually lived across the road from the family base for twenty years. I also was top of the school at ellerslie when I was there :lol: not that much of an achievement.

    He was responsible for our present neo liberal government policy’s.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Douglas

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  129. mandk (1,015 comments) says:

    Kea at 12.47: “Did you catch my news reports of the filthy yid animals ?”

    I thought it would be difficult to surpass the comment about New Zealand never having suffered an infestation of Jews, but there you go.

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  130. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Kea projecting much?

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  131. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    mandk, a bit late now to pretend you are offended by derogatory terms directed towards certain groups. You missed your chance with years of reference to “rag-heads” and “sand niggers”. I care more about the Jews than you do the Muslims and other groups non-favoured by your God.

    griff, give it a break. If you have a non-Kea related topic I would love to hear it. How about a weather forcast ?

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  132. Manolo (14,029 comments) says:

    Yes, UT. Continue digging yourself a bigger hole by defending that piece of excrement, the Koran, your barbaric book.

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  133. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Manolo, well Ugly defends the equally vile christstain bible. In fact the Quran is basically just the old testament. Though I know I will be pissed on from all sides for pointing that out ;)

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  134. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    ) Capital Punishment Crimes:

    Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

    Kill Witches

    You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

    Kill Homosexuals
    “If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

    Kill Fortunetellers

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

    Death for Hitting Dad

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

    Death for Cursing Parents

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

    Death for Adultery

    If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

    Death for Fornication

    A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

    Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

    Kill Nonbelievers

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

    Kill False Prophets

    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

    Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

    Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

    But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

    Kill Followers of Other Religions.

    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

    Death for Blasphemy

    One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

    Kill False Prophets

    1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

    2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

    Infidels and Gays Should Die

    So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

    Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

    For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

    Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

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  135. Lucia Maria (2,606 comments) says:

    Is Kea campaigning for the return of Old Testament Law?

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  136. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    ….” the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’”….

    Be a risky business being a sheep & beef farmer in those days! :)

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  137. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Lucy, Kea just wants you religious people to treat each other in a proper way. Kea does not care what you believe. Finding comfort in fantasy is normal human behaviour and is not confined to main stream theists. In fact the New-Age types really piss Kea off, but we don’t see them on KB preaching hate every day.

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  138. SPC (5,770 comments) says:

    nasska, just keep others off the farm so they cannot witness any farm work taking place.

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  139. Lucia Maria (2,606 comments) says:

    Kea should be happy Old Testament Law no longer applies, considering that Christians are the largest religious group in the world that takes any notice of what the Old Testament says. By implying that Old Testament Law still applies and that Christians should adhere to it, Kea is the one preaching hate.

    Edited to add: If I were still in my New Age zone, I’d be saying, “Look in the mirror, Kea!” :)

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  140. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Lucy, Jesus said OT law does apply. You know that. You can not lie your way to paradise. Stop it.

    1) For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

    2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17 NAB)

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  141. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Lucy, tell me more about the New Age Zone. I reckon we have done mainstream religion to death. ;)

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  142. mikenmild (11,655 comments) says:

    Can’t we just go back to talking about time travel?

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  143. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Its the moon
    moon loons and squawks get a little agitated on nights with a big orange orb…….

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  144. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    milky, do you think time travel is possible ? Some areas of physics suggest it is.

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  145. RF (1,443 comments) says:

    Its Friday night and I need a good laugh. Trolled over to the labour rag and read a few comments by the girl iprent and the pretender to the throne Mickey Mouse. Jesus h Christ those 2 are in la la land. Come election night I can see them walking off into the sunset holding hands never to be seen again.

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  146. Lucia Maria (2,606 comments) says:

    The New Age zone is boring. It’s just mind games, really. It appealed to me for a while but then I realised eventually it lead nowhere, just went around in circles with lots of feel good emotion thrown in.

    Now, your quote from Our Lord we have talked about before. Do you remember? I’ll have to do a bit of a search to see where it got to, but first I’m curious as to whether it’s something that part of your reality (another New Age phrase :P).

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  147. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Lucy, no it is not part of my reality. I find everday life facinating enough and full of surprises. Like when I speak with you ;)

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  148. mikenmild (11,655 comments) says:

    griffith
    We’re a bit past the full moon now. O:ne day I’ll do a comparison and see whether GD is more active on full moons.
    Kea
    I like time travel as a literary device only. I doubt that it is a possibility.

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  149. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    milky, what about at a sub-atomic level ?

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  150. SPC (5,770 comments) says:

    Kea 7.29pm, I think the meaning is that Christians are stuck with Jews on earth. And not even death will be liberation because Jews will be allowed in heaven too.

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  151. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    I could start discussing my fergys …..
    Got the starter fixed and reinstalled this morning and fired one of the tea20s up with either. forgot to take it out of gear and she jumped of the blocks!
    Bloody brilliant sounds like thunder with no exhaust pipe… she shot flames out.. Now its time to play with carbys a good clean and a polishing up of all the brass fittings. should keep me busy for a day or so while I await the sparkplugs and gaskets set for the carby and manifold on order.. Then there is a fuel line to make and gas tank tap to source… fun with old agricultural equipment…

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  152. stigie (1,310 comments) says:

    Yep RF, they will be in complete tatters on election night.

    Will there be a full moon on the 20th September ?

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  153. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Direction of Time Fuzzy for Subatomic Particles

    Subatomic particles don’t care if time moves forward or backward — it’s all the same to them.

    http://www.livescience.com/24941-time-direction-subatomic-particles.html

    I think you are right milky, it is probably not possible in the visible world, which is where we live. But weird stuff happens beneath us. It would drive you mad to think about it. :twisted:

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  154. mikenmild (11,655 comments) says:

    20 September is about a half moon. It’ll be a full moon when Winston gets around to inking his coalition deal with John Key though.

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  155. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    There’s a new breakfast show broadcast by a local radio station that’s aimed at unemployed people.

    It’s on between 2 & 4 in the afternoon.

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  156. stigie (1,310 comments) says:

    You are brilliant Nasska….I never believed Reddy when he said you drove a Fergy to town, and what was the other thing ?

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  157. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    Cowardly, prog, homo, knuckle dragging, marxist, leftist scum just about covers it stigie.

    Take your pick. :)

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  158. stigie (1,310 comments) says:

    All of those Nasska !~

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  159. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    nasska, no you missed a bit.

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  160. stigie (1,310 comments) says:

    I think Kea may be right !~

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  161. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    Spill the beans Kea. :)

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  162. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    stigie, its a very close family. :eek:

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  163. stigie (1,310 comments) says:

    Im sure it wasnt spilling the beans Nasska ?

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  164. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    shhhhh . . . big brother is watching you . . . BOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!

    Life of a dieter . . . the urge to splurge – how to handle the jandal ? Low energy vanilla yoghurt 1kg $4.70 spread on mag fizzy wheels from dairy – 30c each. Ricky Gervais on Graham Norton and then the stand-up. Dieting’s answer to cheese on crackers or anything spread on anything. 1kg of yoghurt goes a long way in small little delicious part teaspoon measures. Fizzy wheels last ages. Good value for higher food energy item. I feel alive dammit – a-liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive – mmmmmm

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  165. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Talking of KB family where is Reid ?
    back in hospital nasska?

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  166. Scott Chris (6,176 comments) says:

    Can’t we just go back to talking about time travel?

    It’s impossible to go back in a conversation about time-travel.

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  167. Lucia Maria (2,606 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Well, luckily for people like me who don’t enjoy having the same conversations over and over and over again, because it’s just too much déjà vu for me. I feel like I’m trapped in the Ground Hog Day movie. Fortunately, this medium allows for connections to previous realities, such as this one where a similar conversation was had on Old Testament vs New Testament law, in amoungst yet another defense of Muslims by your good self. Interestingly enough, you seem the most New Age here, given your adamant refusal to see any reality other than your own, yet that thread indicates a more Muslim view.

    Remember saying this?

    As for Sharia Law… That is simply gods law. If you really believed god is the perfect supreme being, then why would you not make all law consistent with gods teachings ?

    The fact is you would support Sharia, if you were sincere and genuine in your belief in god.

    It’s almost as if all these quotes from the Bible are an attempt to show a similarity with Sharia.

    I haven’t found where I advanced the whole law and the prophets argument, but no matter, the thread I’ve linked to has enough.

    Edited to add: my comment has a bit of time travel in it. Linking back to old threads is like travelling back in time.

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  168. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    He hasn’t been around for about ten days Griff. Johnboy knows him socially….if Reid’s away for too long we can get him to follow up.

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  169. SPC (5,770 comments) says:

    Hurricanes and Highlanders in a game too important for either to resort to playing any rugby.

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  170. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    But Long Rightarded and Sent-off – what if you’ve overdone your intake for the day – won’t you have to do something like – I don’t know – cycle about 15kms later on ?

    Sucked in – the kms have been added to the equation – here’s one I made earlier a-hahahahaha

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  171. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    nope no can do at any level bigger than a photon. Any “mass” and the “energy” required to beat the speed of light is greater than that contained in our universe.. E=mc2
    Time travel could be viable via Black holes or Worm holes in theory except the gravity tides would destroy any ensemble of matter as it entered and you probably would never find a return route to our specific universe .

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  172. Viking2 (11,552 comments) says:

    Tauranga urologist Peter Gilling has been officially ranked as a world expert in his field.

    A company specialising in ranking the most knowledgeable and experienced doctors has listed Dr Gilling as one of the world’s top ten experts in the research and treatment of prostatic enlargement, also known as Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia – BPH.
    – See more at: http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/72232-tauranga-doctor-top-world.html#sthash.zTVYJLTe.dpuf

    http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/72232-tauranga-doctor-top-world.html

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  173. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    LRC, cut out the sweet food. All of it. Its not a treat. Its poison. In my house you rarely find anything you can snack on. It has to be cooked from scratch. I eat lots of peasant food, like beans, chickpeas, rice, pasta and meat. A few veges and a bit of fruit. I eat like a horse and eat anything, except sweet food.

    Eating like that it is hard to become fat. And get back running. 3 x a week is plenty and you do not have to pound away for hours. Cycling is for faggots ;)

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  174. Viking2 (11,552 comments) says:

    The Targa Rally will once again roar into the Coromandel as drivers prepare for an action packed event this weekend.

    The Thames Coromandel District Council warns a number of roads will be closed around the region for the rally.
    – See more at: http://thamescoromandel.sunlive.co.nz/news/72112-targa-skids-into-peninsula.html#sthash.wsdoryiT.dpuf

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  175. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    Mock up of NZ Conservative Party campaign HQ. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/edfu6482mw3430b/Tardis%201.jpg

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  176. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    griff, probably right, but some might suggest that because we are made up of sub atomic “stuff”, (that are observed to act contrary to the theory for bigger things) it is possible to time travel.

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  177. nasska (11,779 comments) says:

    V2

    You may have the misfortune to live in a city with a dysfunctional council but at least with Dr Gilling on hand you should be able to keep your prostrate in rude health. :)

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  178. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    I’d rather eat chocolate than pasta or rice kea. They’re both high energy rubbish !! At least with chocolate I get one hell of a legal high. . . fuck yeah.

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  179. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    LRC, listen Pie-Guts, that stuff will undermine all your hard work. Cut it out and you will see very quickly. You will also feel better and have more energy for rooting and running. You might even get a job ;)

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  180. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    I just discovered what could be why the rusty fergy was left to rot.
    The idle jet in the carby was sitting just out of its screw hole she could never have been tuned to idle or run properly with a 8mm hole instead of 2mm jet . :sad: poor old girl left to rot for a little wee jet of its seat.

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  181. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    I’ve lived without sugar – I know exactly what it’s like. It’s like with sugar – but less sweet. Been eating very lightly. Got a reading 2.5kg under A+ target. I swear I wondered if my scales are dodgy.

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  182. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    LRC, it is not the amount. It is what your eating. You have the focus and discipline, do the smart thing.

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  183. Viking2 (11,552 comments) says:

    Social security claimants can be “friends with benefits” without losing their Centrelink benefits, a federal tribunal has ruled.

    An attempt by the welfare agency to deny a Queensland woman a carer’s allowance because she sometimes had sex with her housemate has been overruled by the Administrative Appeals Tribunal in a case that will be watched with interest by casual acquaintances around the nation.

    The tribunal, sitting in Brisbane, was faced with the tricky task of deciding the difference, for the purpose of Centrelink form-filling, between a de facto couple and “friends with benefits” as the woman, Ms T, described her relationship with a man known as Mr D.
    Illustration: Cathy Wilcox

    Illustration: Cathy Wilcox

    Ms T claimed a carer’s allowance in 2012 as her mother’s health deteriorated and she grew more dependent on her daughter, but Centrelink officials knocked back the application, deciding Mr D was Ms T’s live-in-lover.
    Advertisement

    But in her appeal to the AAT, the 46-year-old Ms T said their relationship was far from exclusive and that after two failed relationships, she was determined to “enjoy her life” and often met other men, whom she first contact through online dating sites, for “physical companionship”.

    She shared a house with Mr D, but they had their own rooms, were financially independent of one another and had no joint assets.

    “Importantly, it was noted that at no time did Mr D support Ms T,” tribunal member Peter Wulf noted in his decision.

    But it was understandable that Centrelink, and later the Social Security Appeals Tribunal, might get the wrong idea about what was going on between Ms T and her sometime lover.

    “When completing her original application, Ms T indicated that she was a member of a couple,” Mr Wulf wrote in his decision.

    “Based on this, it is quite understandable how both the SSAT and Centrelink came to the conclusion that Mr D and Ms T were members of a couple.

    “However, when making her original application for the carer payment, Ms T also made it clear on her form that her relationship with Mr D was ‘friends with benefits’ rather than a couple.”

    Centelink’s case relied heavily on the occasional intimacy between Ms T and Mr D but, said Mr Wulf, there was more to a relationship than sex.

    “From the evidence of both Ms T and Mr D, it would appear that the relationship is not in any way monogamous, in fact, it is quite the opposite,” the tribunal member noted.

    Ms T’s openness about seeing other men away from the home she shared with Mr D seriously undermined Centrelink’s position the two were in a de facto relationship.

    “The openness of the relationship, if one exists other than sharing a bed, would suggest that sex outside the relationship was the norm,” Mr Wulf wrote.

    “When considering a normal de facto relationship it would be unusual, in the tribunal’s opinion, for such actions to occur with such regularity.

    “On this basis, the tribunal does not find that Ms T and Mr D are in a de facto relationship.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/federal-budget/friends-with-benefits-win-centrelink-benefits-20140514-zrbn6.html#ixzz31rt1c8ge

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  184. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    Sucking fizzy wheel – damn this is good – reading KB – LRC it’s not something – something something something – white noise . . .

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  185. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Maybe I should put the essex v6 back into the scimitar gte in the garage and have a go…..second thoughts nope don’t want to crawl around under cars even if its classic pommy shit . The relients getting dragged into the back paddock so my fergys can be nice and dry :lol: only fair after years of rotting in the rain.

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  186. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    I ripped the Essex out of my Mk4 Zephyr and dropped a 289 Ford into it griff.

    Did me well the night I ran the Black&White Motty off the road at the bottom of the Wainui Hill.

    His Cortina Mk4 never had a shits show of catching me! :)

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  187. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Time travel is not possible and never will be. If it was, then someone from the future, would have come back already and told us. We would already have the knowledge needed to time travel.

    On a brighter note, E.T. beings do exist, and have visited earth, which is why we have an idea of what they look like. And we should take note, because it is exactly how the human race will evolve, as we slowly give up physical activity and become more intellectual. Our increased brain usage will cause our heads to be bigger in the brain area, our bodies will shrink due to the less physical activities, and our forefingers will grow longer to cope with the use of technology, (not to mention the added advantage of being able to scratch our own butts, which will be handy because of the extra time we will be sitting on on them).

    So.. we will evolve to look like E.T. – which could of course ruin my first point, because maybe ET (space beings) are actually evolved humans from the future travelled back by time machines! No need to disagree with my post – I’ve taken care of that myself – if only I could give it a down tick as well :-(

    (My god this home distilled brandy is great!) ;-) !!

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  188. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    “(My god this home distilled brandy is great!) ;-) !!”

    You can tell when your liver’s fucked.

    The brain dies first! :)

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  189. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    my mate pulled a 289 out of his mk4 and built up a v6 to go back in
    it was actually faster with the v6 after he breathed on it.
    Bloody handbrakes on those things never worked well.
    I was always a orange man chevy 66impala with a 350/350 trans fuck could that thing fly and I mean fly high off the ground used lovely ramps on nelson st onhunga and another on Marie rd ellerslie used to get well airborn at 100mph plus

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  190. Sidey (254 comments) says:

    Judith is right (3 words you don’t often read here) – the mental image I have of the posters who quibble endlessly, night after night, on GD, is pretty much how she describes the future.

    And if time travel was possible in the future, wouldn’t someone have thought to have travelled back to our time with a couple of snaps to show how global warming/cooling/what-ever-it-is-this-week has munted the planet.

    So that’s 2 theories laid to rest right there. Next.

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  191. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Judith:

    1. Popular images of ETs came from hollywood and works of fiction.

    2. The assumption that life from other planets will be more advanced is without scientific merit.

    3. Life on other planets is almost certain, but it does not follow we have been visited. The vastness of space can not be imagined by the human brain and it is expanding as I write.

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  192. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    It’s hard to believe that the 3L V6 had 144hp and the 289 had 180hp in standard trim and you can get 221kw out of an Evo 2L griff! :)

    I had a 4barrel and some mods on the V8 but I doubt it had more than 220hp and fuckall could beat me back in those days!

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  193. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    the mental image I have of the posters who quibble endlessly, night after night, on GD, is pretty much how she describes the future.

    You mean people who don’t sit and watch TV reality shows and advertisements ? :)

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  194. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Aren’t the Kardashians on soon Kea? :)

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  195. Sidey (254 comments) says:

    The chances of there being life on another planet is not impossible.
    Then we need to factor in the chances that that life is at a stage in it’s evolution at least as advanced as our own, to be able to communicate with us. Planets could be teeming with life but it’s all at Green Party voter level so we wouldn’t know. So the odds of other life being at our stage, or greater, gets smaller.
    Then we need to consider that they could be further advanced than us, and not want to communicate with us. Or, we’re better off with them not knowing we’re here.

    Or, we’re all alone among gazillions of planets, and Russel Norman is the best we can do.

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  196. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Johnboy, this mad-house of KB is what keeps me sane !

    I have a dam computer in front of my face most of the day, but watch ZERO TV. Last time I watched it was in my hotel when I was away for work. It was even worse than I remembered. I also missed being called a Nazi Troll every 5 minutes. :)

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  197. Don the Kiwi (1,793 comments) says:

    Johnboy.

    Had a ’70 Mk.IV Zephyr back in the mid ;70’s.- just the 3.0 ltr. V6. but could they go – 110 mph in third gear, then drop it into top – real goers, and a very innovative but underestimated car. Big with plenty of room.
    When I went to Oz in 1979, sold it to my bro-in-law. He was a mechanic and drooped a 350 chevvy into it, lowered it and juiced up the V8 a bit. The bloody thing was almost frightening, but kept winding diffs.
    Good cars , them old Z car Mk.IV ‘s

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  198. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    They put Winstons head on you the other day and had you pecking at Judith Kea!

    Sue the bastards! :)

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  199. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Sidey, by what measure do you consider humans advanced ? We are not the most successful or adaptable life form.

    A common mistake is to consider humans are the pinnacle of something and that all other life is evolving towards being human. This is completely wrong. Organisms evolve to suit their environment.

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  200. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    I had two of them Don. Loved the buggers. My parents lived in Jafaland at the time and I used to head up there half a dozen times a year for a visit. No trucks in those days always drove at night fuckall black & whites too they all went beddy byes at 10pm. Did Porirua to Northcote in 7 hours once. Passed about three cars all the way! Fuck the Greenies and public transport! :)

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  201. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    My Camry is only an atmo 2.5 v6 and its around 200hp real hp at the fly wheel. The yanks rated hp with everything removed including the water pump .
    Tried to talk my brother into sticking one into the scimitar but he is such a lazy shit it will never happen The Essex was fully rebuilt ten years ago and hasn’t been back into the car yet.

    kbs Greeny is or was a total v8 fueled boy racer. Last person to drag race on eastern beach before the wowsers placed judder bars in. blew the exhaust to pieces racing a 350 ht monaro beat the bastard as well :lol:

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  202. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Just spotted nasska’s 8:34. I’ll give the old Christian Soldier a dial tomorrow to see if he’s OK. :)

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  203. Don the Kiwi (1,793 comments) says:

    Agree.
    Actually, I had 2 of them as well – the first one I owned was a ’66 with the 2.6 ltr. V6. Bloody thing kept overheating, which was the problem with them and gave them the bad name.
    My bro-in-law told me that the problem was that the water galleries were too narrow – designed for cold climate in Europe. So he stripped it down and drilled them out. From then on, no matter how hard I pedalled the bitch, could hardly get the temp. guage past the blue.
    Sold that one to my younger brother – which reminds me, he still owes me $300. :-)

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  204. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Johnboy, looks like minus is pulling a late shift :)

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  205. Sidey (254 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Advanced is a relative term. Can I change my external colour to merge with my environment, live without water for years, or squirt ink to ward off a predator? No (well, maybe after a few too many Speights).

    But I’m typing this on a laptop. Ol’ squiddy next to me, well, he’s all over the place, looking kind of squiddy.

    But do I think humans are what every sentient species would aspire to be? No. That’s just be arrogent. We’re basically shite and fall over with all manner of diseases and illnesses at the drop of a hat. But, I’m still happy to be here for all that. And I’ll never know what we might become, because I’ll be dead.

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  206. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    They built the Essex strong enough for a diesel variant I believe griff. Don’t know if it ever eventuated? Was a heavy bugger though. Pity it suffered from Brit engineering…leaked oil a week after you rebuilt it and worn out at 100,000 miles.
    Had a dodgy hex drive instead of square for the oil pump and the fibre cam gear was shit as well.

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  207. Sidey (254 comments) says:

    My first car was a Holden Sunturd. My second was a Hillman Avenger. I once changed a spark plug. Or put the cap back on, something like that.

    Can I play?

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  208. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Be worth more than $300 now if the car cancer hasn’t got it Don! :)

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  209. Don the Kiwi (1,793 comments) says:

    How’s this for a record?

    Back in ’66 I had a 970. Cooper ‘S’. My mate and I with our girlfriends were going to Auckland to see the movie ‘Grand Prix’ – we were both in the Tauranga Car Club in those days, and I had the Min. up to Group 2 racing specs – it was a real quick little bitch.
    I left Te Puke (where I was living then), at 25 mins past 5 – picked up my mate Crash and his bird in Tauranga, screamed up to Auckland, parked the car in a back street, walked to the Civic theatre where the film was showing, and sat down in our seats at 5 to 8.
    That’s a quick trip, my friend. :-)

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  210. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    If you’ve knocked two or more cyclists off their bikes Sidey you can get accredited on the technical knowledge paper! :)

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  211. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    My mate had an old flat head split windscreen morris minor. The head was craked in two. We used to unbolt it and pull it off in two parts to show people who knew about cars. None could believe it ran. It used to stop for no apparent reason. Sometimes we would lift the bonnet and fiddle with things. Sometimes we would just sit and wait. Then it would start again.

    I had a later model. You had to pump the brakes to keep pressure up in case braking was needed at some point. You had to pull down hard on the gear lever to keep it in top or it would fly out of gear.

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  212. Don the Kiwi (1,793 comments) says:

    Yeah, it would be Johnboy.
    But the thing is probably steel reinforcing bar by now.

    Actually, here in Tauranga there are a lot of car enthusiasts – there are a couple of lovely restored Mk.IV ‘s, and a few older ons as well. A mate of mine rebuild an old ’56 Mk I rag top and painted it irridescent green. He cruises around in it on Sundays. :-)

    Back in my wild youth prior to the Mini, I had a ’55 Mk I rag top – really neat car. Trouble was, it kept picking up fluff going along the road. Summer time at the Mount was particularly fulfilling.

    (Says to self – ‘don’t go there, Don) :-)

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  213. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    And I’ll never know what we might become, because I’ll be dead.

    It must be happy hour – wisecracks two for one until 11.

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  214. Sidey (254 comments) says:

    I must have been doing it wrong then JB, I’ve been knocked off a push bike three times, but apart from the obvious conginitive difficulties, I’m all good.

    And I was so looking forward to joining the club:-)

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  215. All_on_Red (1,643 comments) says:

    Don the k
    What about Auckland (Hobson st on ramp) Paeroa 45 minutes?
    7am start though.
    Napier( from Westshore pub) Taupo ( Lane Cove intersection) 55 minutes?
    8am Sunday

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  216. Sidey (254 comments) says:

    LRC,

    I thought it might get a nibble from the religious debaters, but it seems they only get fired up within a defined time each night. All that endless banging on (both sides) must tire them out early.

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  217. Don the Kiwi (1,793 comments) says:

    Shit – that’s gotta be right up there AoR.

    What were you pedalling?

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  218. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    See you and raise you two Kea. I once owned a Morrie 1100 and I put twin SU’s on it, headers, a warm cam and got Hamlin and Charles to work some magic on the head. It was the hottest little 1100 around cause no other sensible bugger would bother to mod one. Much fun I had with it. Went up to Jafaville one night fell asleep around Hamilton and let my mate drive the rest of the way. When I woke up the car was making a funny noise and the oil pressure was down from 60 to 20 psi. Checked it out and found we could give the crankshaft pulley a bit of a waggle! Cruised around Jafa for a few days slowly and headed back to Welly at 30mph as any higher speed got very noisy. Car did approx 600miles with a broken crankshaft at the first web after the pulley. Turned out that the 1098cc A series had a vibration period at 6000rpm and my fucking ex mate had sustained 90mph from Hamilton to Jafa!

    Good old Pommie three bearing crankshafts! :)

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  219. Don the Kiwi (1,793 comments) says:

    I’m a Subaru fan now.

    I’ve got a ’96 Legacy twin turbo – she’s done 335,000 kms and hasn’t had a spanner to the block yet, and the turbo still works well – she’s probably down on neddies now tho, but still goes very well.

    Being a poor old retired chippy, i cant’ afford a newer one – unless I win lotto – then it’ll be a new Subie, plus a ’66 Fast Back Mustang. You can get real good restored ones in the States for around 40, K US. plus shipping and GST.

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  220. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    Sidey – you’re not wrong there – you get more of your godless types lurking in the murky night time shadows. Keyboard gets worn out – that’s for sure. Must just be a couple of small dots of stickers left on the corner of each key if left unreplaced after rampant data entry abuse. Might explain some of the hurrious typos. Look at me – I’m Shakespeare making shit up.

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  221. All_on_Red (1,643 comments) says:

    2002 Porsche Carrera 4S
    Only 325 bhp but you don’t slow down much…
    I do know that Napier Taupo road like the back of my hand

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  222. Don the Kiwi (1,793 comments) says:

    A o R.

    Very nice.

    Porsche is one of my all time favorites. Just could never afford one. Left that to a mate of mine – but there was only enough room in it for him and his bird :-)

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  223. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    The Jappers make good wheels Don. Read the “Ask an expert” column on the AA site if you ever get tempted to buy a Euroshiter! :

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  224. Don the Kiwi (1,793 comments) says:

    Good chatting. Nite all. :-)

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  225. All_on_Red (1,643 comments) says:

    I’ve had five, not much really goes wrong. Not like the Lotus, (Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious)the three Alfas, the Lancia Fulvia , the Fiat X 19 sigh…(FixItAgain Tony)
    BMW diesel these days. Family huh

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  226. TheContrarian (1,091 comments) says:

    Jaguar E-Type. That’s the way to go

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  227. Lucia Maria (2,606 comments) says:

    I thought it might get a nibble from the religious debaters, but it seems they only get fired up within a defined time each night. All that endless banging on (both sides) must tire them out early.

    Or they realise that by this time of night all they are doing is fending off the drunks.

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  228. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    I lost interest in cars 38 years ago when I got the first company car. Funny how that happens! :)

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  229. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    I’m a Subaru fan now.

    Good you can come and pick up my pile of shit. No car troubles for years. My 4wd blew a motor after ten years. I sold it as is. Got a subaru and the motor blew up. $$$$ and a reconded motor. Then the cam chain tensioner bolt sheared off and the nasty little bastard car blew up again.

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  230. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    There great for the first 100,000kms jb then forget it it going to cost big just to keep it going….

    Why the fuck would you want the engine in the back? Porsche has spent the last fifty years trying to make a silly idea work….

    work it does until you over cook it then its hedge backwards for even the best…

    The stiig put a electric car around the track faster than a gt3 can do it :lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRU95s_lXOQ

    Ive hitched form ak to welly in 7hours flat

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  231. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Judith Iscariot is on the brandy Lucy, seems she is a quiet drunk rather than a rowdy one! :)

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  232. All_on_Red (1,643 comments) says:

    If you like E Types you may like these.
    http://www.eaglegb.com

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  233. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Johnboy, I always had motor bikes. Then I got into riding horses, so I brought a Falcon Ute to tow floats. I hated that thing with a passion. It robbed me blind and had no redeeming features.

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  234. Lucia Maria (2,606 comments) says:

    She’s the only one that’s admitted it, Johnboy.

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  235. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    It was Hitlers idea to put the engine in the back just to get his revenge on the rest of us griff and it was almost 80 years ago when Ferdy obeyed his Fuhrer :)

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  236. All_on_Red (1,643 comments) says:

    Griff
    The later ones had better balance and the engine in the back gave great drive out of the corners. The four wheel drive versions were close to being evenly balanced and could get 40% drive off the front wheels.
    I did 45,000 kms in that car and never had a bad moment. Rain or shine

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  237. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    My liver and I have always admitted we are both alkys Lucy! :)

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  238. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Lucy, not Kea. He is normally out boozing on a Friday night. Tonight he volunteered for something that requires sobriety. I imagine your slugging away on the red wine :)

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  239. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    You’re not lining up to buy the last Falcoon FPV (price unknown) then Kea ? :)

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  240. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Your randy pursuit of a Godfearing, married, Christian woman like Lucy is an abomination before God Kea.

    When do think you’ll get the first date with her? :)

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  241. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Johnboy, Japanese all the way for me. However I do have a German car at the moment I brought for $200 [sic]. It flew through a WOF and drives perfectly. I love it. They were not that good new even, but this one is a little cracker. It looks terrible, like it has a skin disease or something. I will keep it and sell the Subaru.

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  242. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    When do think you’ll get the first date with her?

    I am trying to get in before the rapture :twisted:

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  243. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    didn’t thrash it to hard then
    Ive overcooked the girlfriends car a couple of times and that’s 50/50 perfect balance mrs/s the hot one with a close ratio gearbox its like a knife on the edge.. fun but not easy if you are hard on it
    used to love my brothers x19 around the big roundabouts on the way to the mount four wheel drifting for as long as… but gutless as fuck

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  244. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    This site may be of assistance to you Kea! :)

    http://www.catholicenquiry.org.nz/booklets/?gclid=CPHNi4GtsL4CFQx9vQoday0AqA

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  245. Kea (13,332 comments) says:

    Johnboy, Good Catholic girls need sins for forgiving, or Church is just not the same.

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