General Debate 29 May 2014

May 29th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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103 Responses to “General Debate 29 May 2014”

  1. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    Cowabunga!

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  2. NK (1,060 comments) says:

    Gee, I wonder why the Herald has dragged this up in the Gotingco case.

    Actually, I have fair idea why and await the public outrage when the truth is revealed. And being election year, it will be the worse time to come out.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11263549

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  3. hj (6,321 comments) says:

    http://www.planetizen.com/node/68939?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=05272014
    Foreign Investors Driving Up Housing Costs, Creating Zombie Communities
    .

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  4. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    Laila Harre, saviour of NZ politics? No, just another power-hungry, devoid of principles left-winger, easily bought by the German fraudster.

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  5. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

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  6. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    Another sad milestone in the journey to the death of free speech in this country and the relentless great march of the offended ,traumatised ,retraumatised and down right humourless .

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/303962/sir-gordon-deeply-sorry-sexually-inappropriate-joke

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  7. EAD (567 comments) says:

    I have become more aware over the past few years in the way media (particularly of the mainstream version) report events and it is interesting to note the way our media have covered the story of that sick bast*rd who killed 6 people as revenge as he couldn’t get a shag. There has been wall to wall coverage of this in the NZ media with the almost universal angle taken that he “hated women” and was a misogynist (both true).

    However, what is left unsaid or glossed over is actually more revealing:
    - his hatred was not restricted to women but included Hispanics, Blacks, ‘jocks’, attractive people, successful people, minorities and ‘humanity’ in general and he even plotted to kill his 6 year old half-brother who adored him. His mindset focussed exclusively and grandiously on himself. So it’s inappropriate, even narcissistic, of the feminists and the media to exploit this horrible atrocity for their ends. What is glossed over is the fact that of his 6 victims, 4 were actually male.
    - we are told that it is an example of Americas “gun problem” whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that his first 3 victims were all stabbed to death
    - all reports are glossing over the the medication he was on. The thing that connected every single one of the recent American shooting tragedies is that they were all on mind altering medications but the role of Big Pharma is rarely mentioned.
    - I can’t find anywhere on the NZ Herald or Stuff of the massacre in the Brussels Jewish Museum that occurred on the same day. Perhaps because the narrative didn’t suit the cultural marxist mindset of the mainstream media?? If you’re wondering what I’m talking about read this:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/10856330/Brussels-Jewish-museum-shooter-inspired-by-French-Islamist.html

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  8. Keeping Stock (10,085 comments) says:

    Curly Sue’s been mashing up songs again. But will Laila Harre have the same “unplugged” success in her second political career as Eric Clapton had with his second bite at a music career?

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/curly-sues-on-laila.html

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  9. Chuck Bird (4,658 comments) says:

    @Kowtow

    They did not publish the joke. Do you recall it?

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  10. Ashley Schaeffer (401 comments) says:

    kowtow (6,996 comments) says:
    May 29th, 2014 at 8:15 am
    Another sad milestone in the journey to the death of free speech in this country and the relentless great march of the offended ,traumatised ,retraumatised and down right humourless.

    I wish that one – just one – of these highly offensive people would grow a spine for once and say “Fuck it, it was a joke. If you don’t find it funny, don’t laugh. But I ain’t gonna apologise.” I lose a little bit of respect for these public figures each time one of them kowtows to the PC overlords. It’s just cowardly really.

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  11. NK (1,060 comments) says:

    Compare these:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/rowan_atkinson_on_insulting_free_speech.html

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/01/a_win_for_free_speech_in_the_uk.html

    With this:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/05/the_cyber_bullying_law.html

    Margaret Wilson tried to bring back criminal libel and there was outrage from the opposition.

    It’s bad unless National does it?

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  12. James Stephenson (2,004 comments) says:

    @chuck

    I’m guessing (given that if Titch is famous for anything, it’s getting his players fitter than everyone else) that it’ll have been the one about the number calories burned during sex ie: removing bra with consent (small number), without consent (large number).

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  13. EAD (567 comments) says:

    Money………………

    still the most mysterious subject in the world to many. You spend your whole life working for it, spend some and hopefully save a bit and then one day hope you’ve saved enough so you don’t have to work any more.

    However, there is more to it than that. Since Ron Paul lifted the lid on the workings on the Central Banking system to the World in the 2007/8 Republican Presidential campaign, more and more people are waking up to the injustice of the central banking system that enriches the 0.1% at the expense of the rest.

    The article explains that much of the confusion starts with Politicians making the general public believe that the economy is a giant number (GDP) that goes up and down and that it is the role of Central Banks to push that number up by debasing the currency (politely called inflation).

    This is a great article and concludes:
    “We do not need “monetary policy” any more than we need a paintbrush policy, a baseball bat policy, or an automobile policy. We do not need a monopoly institution to create money for us. Money, like any good, is better produced on the market within the nexus of economic calculation. Money creation by government or its privileged central bank yields us business cycles, monetary debasement, and an increase in the power of government. If we are going to utter monetary truths, this one is the most central and subversive of all.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-27/speaking-truth-monetary-power

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  14. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    Chuck

    I wasn’t there ,so can’t say. Context is very important and of course that’s not given either.

    EAD

    The media. DW news reporting the Euro elections .The news reader actually said …….the “shocking results”.There’s a very definite mindset and agenda.

    Like you say ,the Brussels shooting ,to all intents and purposes ,ignored and here’s why they don’t want to go there.

    http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/belgium-terror-attack-could-be-linked-to-hezbollah/2014/05/28/

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  15. G152 (135 comments) says:

    How many different political parties has Harre been in now ?

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  16. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    NK

    “If National does it”

    National are being very un National supporting this crap,anti tobacco legislation etc

    They really are Labour Lite and are only being saved by the fact that the world still needs our commodities.Our saviours are the farmers,oil ,log etc exporters ,not John Key or Bill English.

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  17. doggone7 (671 comments) says:

    Manolo: “Laila Harre, saviour of NZ politics? No, just another power-hungry, devoid of principles left-winger, easily bought …”

    No, just another person who has the temerity to think that dealings to see you stay on the Bright Side of the Sun, such as with SkyCity, should be open to her. Her doing deals = selling out. National doing deals = sensible business. ???????

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  18. itstricky (1,529 comments) says:

    Her doing deals = selling out. National doing deals = sensible business. ???????

    As witnessed on the other thread as:

    That lovely Sue Bradford she’s really doing the right thing for everybody ~ such prose and dignity and all with the principles of an angel

    As opposed to what you’d expect to hear:

    That evil smacking witch Bradford. Why isn’t she more flexible and pragmatic. I mean one’s principles are one thing, but you have to be open to opportunity, open to deals, live life practically. Silly witchy lefty ell never get it

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  19. dime (9,351 comments) says:

    EAD – cheers for that! ive been giving people shit all week about the anti-gun shit they post after each shooting.

    Im launching an anti-knife campaign as we speak!

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  20. burt (7,785 comments) says:

    I was just wondering – Did we ever have a ‘Telegraph Party’, a ‘Rail Barron party’ or a ‘Telephone Party’ as those technologies first showed up and changed the world ?

    How f-ing stupid to have “the internet” as the basis of a party ….

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  21. b1gdaddynz (279 comments) says:

    Looks like Queensland have State of Origin in the bag again :-) #falsehope

    But seriously all bias aside how bad does a lifting tackle have to be to warrant a sending off in State of Origin? Especially bad given Brent Tates history “I’ve never been more frightened”! At worst Reynolds will miss 3 weeks but likely to be 2 weeks if he pleads guilty?!? Wasn’t the NRL talking about stamping this out of the game after what happened to Alex McKinnon? This is an absolute disgrace!

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  22. dime (9,351 comments) says:

    These are the top 25 live artists since 1990.

    Stones @ number one. bought in 1.5 bill.. not bad.

    http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6099232/top-live-artists-touring-grosses-rolling-stones?page=0%2C1

    Bruce – 1,196
    Madonna – 1,140

    Not bad for solo artists.

    Metallica only 400 million.

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  23. Colville (2,056 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10096789/England-tour-biggest-cock-up-since-tour-of-hell

    The excuses have started early.

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  24. Colville (2,056 comments) says:

    Bigdaddy, state of origin has been boring since they stopped the all in scraps, biffo, head butts and general mano a mano stuff.

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  25. dime (9,351 comments) says:

    b1gdaddynz – he probably should have gone off. would have ruined the game though.

    they need a rule – youre off! but you can be replaced. Dime could live with that.

    I was picking NSW all day yesterday. then queensland went in piss easy and i changed my pick. doh.

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  26. hj (6,321 comments) says:

    http://www.interest.co.nz/news/70159/english-accuses-labour-resorting-dog-whistle-politics-debate-over-migration-parker-points

    Parker quotes Reserve Bank and Treasury Paper at English.
    English joins magical thinking Green Party in dissagreeing.

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  27. cricko (166 comments) says:

    You should vote for Nobody in the general election.

    Nobody will abolish the race based Maori seats in parliament and on local councils.

    Nobody will reduce the value of homes in Auckland.

    Nobody supports Labours signature policy to ban trucks from the right hand lane of our 25 kms of
    three lane motorways and thinks this is a election winning masterstroke.

    Nobody believes the constant mantra from Labours worldly Jacinda Ardern that one in four New Zealand
    children live in abject poverty (and don’t even own a pair of shoes) no matter how many times she repeats it.

    Nobody thinks that David Cunliffe is a genuine Kiwi good bloke and a straight shooter.

    Nobody thinks that multiculturalism can work if it includes muslims. Nobody will stop importing more and
    more muslims into New Zealand.

    Nobody believes that MMP is not decending into a fricken farce of a political system.

    Nobody believes that unionised school teachers put their students needs ahead of their own.

    Nobody wants to go back to the good old days when Anette King was health minister and we could send
    our urgent cancer patients to Australia for tratment after seeing the great outcomes a competent minister
    like Tony Ryall has achieved.

    Nobody believes that a drone like Sue Morony would make a better social development minister than
    Paula Bennet.

    Nobody still believes that socialism works.

    Nobody thinks we need more immigrants like ‘iman’ Abdulla Haman and his clan who refuse to work, live
    on the benefit and preach jihad against us.

    Nobody believes that a Labour govt will create more jobs straight out of thin air.

    Vote for Nobody, you know it makes sense.

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  28. b1gdaddynz (279 comments) says:

    @Colville League is a dangerous enough game if you follow the rules; in saying that yes I to miss the biff sometimes but the lifting tackle is another story. It’s actually been boring since one side has been so dominant a bit like Bledisloe cup rugby union; wouldn’t be totally terrible if NSW won it this year although I would never want the AB’s to lose to the Wannabes :-)

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  29. Ross12 (1,143 comments) says:

    On the KDC/Mana deal, Cam Slater has a suggestion

    ” However there is now a useful precedent…perhaps the Act party and Conservative party could get together and stitch up a similar deal…over Epsom…a combined list, a guaranteed amalgamation of vote percentage, and more than just one MP resulting. The left-wing could hardly complain could they? ”

    If it was to occur , one of the spin offs might be that the MMP debate would get back on the agenda.

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  30. stephieboy (2,128 comments) says:

    Ron Paul twice failed Republican Presedemtial nominee with some of his Austrian School economic woo,

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ron_Paul#.22Economics.22 etc,

    It’s no accident that a great fan of his is that Paranoia King Akex Jones.!

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  31. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    MMP does need debating,along with scraping the racist seats which was part of that deal.

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  32. b1gdaddynz (279 comments) says:

    @Dime- So you get one of your forwards to take out the opposition play maker and then replace him? Doesn’t seem like much of a deterrent :-)

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  33. dime (9,351 comments) says:

    “” However there is now a useful precedent…perhaps the Act party and Conservative party could get together and stitch up a similar deal…over Epsom…a combined list, a guaranteed amalgamation of vote percentage, and more than just one MP resulting. The left-wing could hardly complain could they? ””

    yeah it crossed my mind to.

    i think the new ACT! guys would be too principled.

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  34. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    Laila Harre, Aotearoa’s answer to Mata Hari.

    http://www.biography.com/people/mata-hari-9402348#awesm=~oFB2SuoVVP83Ip

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  35. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    New Zealand political elite ,take note.”Multiculturalism” will get your arses kicked ,just a matter of time.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10860492/Are-we-all-racist-now.html

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  36. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    More “multiculturalism” in Britain ,not covered by our fearless MSM here in Aotearoa.

    Let in enough third worlders and they will undermine and destroy our democratic values ,as this is a good example.

    As always with the religion of peace ,the ever present threat of violence.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/local-elections/10861289/Support-Tower-Hamlets-mayor-or-risk-riots-says-advisor.html

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  37. lilman (882 comments) says:

    League is a pussy sport,used to be good.

    Now Ice Hockey,thats a sport.

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  38. questions (168 comments) says:

    jackinabox says: “I fully understand why the Murrah building was bombed.”
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/05/protest_not_threaten.html#comment-1330716

    Cross post from another post, because this needs a wider audience. Today, 29th of May 2014, jackinabox became a terrorist sympathizer, I hope you are now on the receiving end of the appropriate surveillance by law enforcement agencies.

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  39. dime (9,351 comments) says:

    b1gdaddynz – heh yeah ya gotta have the full red card option too.

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  40. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Under its equivalent of the cover of darkness Parliament has legislated to stop a rort by a subset of a subset of participants in the emissions trading scheme.

    But in the process it has inflicted gratuitous collateral damage on other forest owners who have acted in good faith, in accordance with the rules of the scheme and with no intention of gaming the system.

    It has meanwhile left entirely intact the corporate welfare the scheme allows. And it has trampled on any semblance of good legislative practice.
    ===========================

    So another under cover fuck up from the Nats.
    More corporate welfare.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11263502

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  41. edhunter (489 comments) says:

    I didn’t see too much wrong with the tackle, if anything it was Beau Scott who had the more significant role in the “dangerous” tackle. Anyone else feel the refs were doing everything in their power to engineer a Maroon victory especially in the last 5 minutes?

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  42. b1gdaddynz (279 comments) says:

    @edhunter – Maybe you should get your eyes tested then…even the Blues supporters at work think it was a red card offence. The refereeing was poor in general and I think they may have been trying the balance up the previous 75 mins :-)

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  43. Harriet (4,495 comments) says:

    “……EAD – cheers for that! ive been giving people shit all week about the anti-gun shit they post after each shooting……”

    And he was never bought up around guns as he was born in the UK [he arrived in the States as an adolescent I believe.]

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  44. burt (7,785 comments) says:

    Another blow for the religious groups who like to say – The science is settled….

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/10095267/Freak-waves-prove-to-be-ultimate-icebreaker

    Niwa oceanographer Dr Mike Williams said the study, published in Nature today, provided vital information that had been missing from models of sea ice and its effect on climate.

    ‘‘When these experiments were last carried out in the 1970s and 80s, people needed to be sitting on the sea ice to take measurements and that meant they couldn’t be out there when the big waves came through,’’ Williams said.

    The Niwa team developed wave buoys, so they ‘‘were able to put those out on the ice and leave them out during big storms’’, he said.

    Niwa hydrodynamics scientist Dr Alison Kohout deployed the buoys from the Aurora Australis, the Australian icebreaker used to free a Russian ship trapped in Antarctic ice for 10 days over summer.

    The Niwa scientists also compared data from 1997 to 2009 to examine the link between wave heights in the Southern Ocean and sea ice extent.

    ‘‘What we’ve found is that where waves have got bigger the sea ice has retreated, and where waves have got smaller the sea ice has expanded,’’ Williams said.

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  45. lilman (882 comments) says:

    Wheres Penny gone?
    Maybe paying her rates?

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  46. Fletch (5,992 comments) says:

    Good for him.

    An Anglican pastor has quit the church and is taking his congregation with him after the governing body moved ahead with plans to bless same-sex relationships.

    Charlie Hughes, the former vicar of St Michael’s in Henderson, says he cannot reconcile the decision of the church to recognise same sex relationships with his ordination vows.

    He said the vows were a pledge to uphold the constitution of the Anglican Church. The constitution states it is “not lawful to ordain anything contrary to God’s word written”.

    “It’s not because we have a problem with people who are in a same sex relationship but because of the commitment we have to shaping our lives around the teachings of the Bible,” Mr Hughes said.

    “This isn’t an anti-gay issue. This is a pro-Bible issue. There are seven completely clear statements in the Bible about same sex acts which are all disapproving.”

    The Anglican Church’s ruling body this month issued an apology to the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community. It also told clergy they could bless same sex marriages with a bishop’s permission and set out a path to formalising the recognition.

    The Herald is aware of intense debate in congregations grappling with how to accept the ruling of the governing body, the General Synod.

    Mr Hughes said he knew of other churches in which rifts had formed.

    “There is a large body of Anglican clergy who are convinced this is the wrong way to go.”

    There was also a group of lawyers — including two QCs — who were working on a legal challenge to the church’s move.

    Two-thirds of St Michael’s board had also resigned as had half the staff, while Mr Hughes was in talks with a non-Anglican church to take over as minister.

    He said he would welcome his former parishioners if they chose to join the new congregation.

    He said in his view there was an inconsistency between same sex relationships and membership of a Christian church.

    Mr Hughes said the Bible was explicit in its opposition to sexual acts between people of the same gender.

    “I, in no way, support repressive policies against homosexuals,” he added.

    “I am prepared to be supportive and engaged with people who experience same sex attraction but I cannot approve of those who participate in same sex acts.”

    He said there would be a “tension between living according to the Bible and the lifestyle choice they make”.

    The Bishop of Auckland the Very Reverend Ross Bay told St Michael’s parishioners that he understood there would be “confusion and even anger” over the situation.

    He said Mr Hughes had spoken of making a decision of conscience.

    “I respect his decision and so have accepted the inevitable consequence that his licence as vicar must lapse as a result.”

    He also said the church’s position had not changed, with work under way to develop ways in which clergy opposed to same sex marriage did not have to bless the relationships.

    A new priest would be appointed.

    Labour’s Louisa Wall, who championed same-sex marriage legislation through Parliament, welcomed the Anglican Church’s move to take a position across its parishes.

    “It says to me the Anglican Church has always been the most progressive.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11263531

    Don’t you just love the Louisa Wall quote at the end. The Anglican Church has “always been the most progressive”.
    A church is not supposed to be “progressive”. It is supposed to stand for God’s law or opinion.

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  47. minus (132 comments) says:

    What happens when the piggy-back or parasite party splits?

    Brendon Horan was expelled from New Zealand First, but although being a List Member, he still remained in Parliament as an Independent.

    But now with the formation of Mana-Internet, an electorate member [Hone, they hope] will qualify list members from a combined party vote.
    However that will be a unified Mana-Internet party vote, without any indication of a vote preferring Mana or Internet separately.

    So how can a reported Internet-Mana pre-nuptial clause for dissolution of their union work?

    Without any separate party vote evidence, how can any one say they are legitimately in Parliament, standing for either party, since there will no evidence on their separate split identity.

    And any replacements for whatever reason must also come from that unified list. That is what the people will have voted for, if they are indeed dopey enough to vote for Parasite-Mana. :-)

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  48. mike tan (433 comments) says:

    Hi all,

    First time voter here. While understanding that there are likely ulterior motives behind the Internet Party, I strongly support internet freedom and accessibility, perhaps more than any other issue. My friends and I were happy to vote for them but are now confused given that they have merged with a far left party (and we associate government control with the far left). It is unclear what the social policies of this party are (specifically with regards to the internet). Anyone have any advice or a link? Thanks.

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  49. muggins (2,983 comments) says:

    Ice hockey a sport with all that padding? You must be joking ,lilman.
    I wonder how many ice hockey players get a broken arm during a game or a dislocated shoulder . Or concussion.

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  50. minus (132 comments) says:

    As much as global warming, or not, is argued here, the only response nationally seems to be the ETS.
    And having left that in the care of Government, nobody does anything else.

    Dr Russel Norman: Is there anything to stop firms that receive New Zealand carbon units each year as free allocations from selling these units and then using cheaper international units to meet their greenhouse obligations in New Zealand?
    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/business/qoa/50HansQ_20140528_00000003/3-emissions-trading-scheme—fiscal-risks

    Dump the fucking useless ETS – its originators are serving prison terms. Some of its practitioners should perhaps be doing the same.
    Deal with global warming – simply such matters as are reasonable – on a national basis.

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  51. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    Ice hockey is a sport.

    However because most sane people think it’s a stupid French Canadian past time the administrators had to ramp up the amount of carnage and violence involved in order to get more brain dead folk to follow it.

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  52. lilman (882 comments) says:

    If you know hockey then you wouldn’t have made that comment.
    Look at most post match interviews and you will notice few,especially older players.have their own teeth,regularly knocked out.
    Fingers being amputated by slashing is not unheard of ,I know of 2 player in my own club who have parts of fingers missing.
    As for concussion just got to you tube, type in any year NHL hockey knockouts and then tell me what you see.

    Also when have you seen in any league game a fight between entire benches ,before the game,that goes for 15 mins,that the refs let go along as players keep their feet.
    Players,coaches and supporters belting the hell out of each other,as one commentator said after 6 ejections,a crowd fight and 4 or 5 all in brawls,”I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone wouldn’t be angry with this bunch,they need to start taking things seriously”

    Now that’s a sport.

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  53. Ross12 (1,143 comments) says:

    Is this being proposed in this way, so their Greenpeace mates also don’t continue to have issues with their status

    “The Green Party’s Charities Amendment Bill makes it clear that organisations that advocate for the relief of poverty, the advancement of education or religion, or any other matter beneficial to the community that constitutes a primary part of their work may be registered as charitable organisations.”

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  54. ross411 (220 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,808 comments) says:
    May 29th, 2014 at 11:34 am
    Good for him.

    An Anglican pastor has quit the church and is taking his congregation with him after the governing body moved ahead with plans to bless same-sex relationships.

    Charlie Hughes, the former vicar of St Michael’s in Henderson, says he cannot reconcile the decision of the church to recognise same sex relationships with his ordination vows.

    Seeing this, I wonder why gay marriage. Did he take a stand and break from the church over child abuse? No. The book must say child abuse is okay? But hey, the book says that gay marriage is not kosher, so.. isn’t incest given the thumbs up in the bible? Adam plus Eve does not end up with lots of different people with Adam, Eve or their children incestuating.

    Sorry, unlike Mr Hughes, I am against child abuse.

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  55. enjiner (17 comments) says:

    @ross411, I’m confused by your comment. I’m not aware of any major Anglican child abuse scandal, at least none in the last decade. There may have been individual incidents, but nothing widespread, and certainly nothing condoned by the church leadership. Are you sure you’re not confusing Anglican and Catholic? Those are quite different denominations.

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  56. wreck1080 (3,719 comments) says:

    OK, one direction were caught on tape doing drugs and using the ‘nig’ word.

    So, as Nigella Lawson was banned from the USA I also expect one direction to be banned from the US to maintain consistency.

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  57. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    cricko

    TVNZ 1 mid day news and a story about what fat lard arses we’ve become. Some Prof dick going on about “we need the gummint to do something”

    Cut to Tony Ryall ” This is a personal and family responsibility issue”

    Oh to have a few dozen more Tony Ryall’s in the National Party parliamentary caucus and running the show.

    ‘Personal responsibility” that’s what it’s all about.

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  58. Albert_Ross (241 comments) says:

    minus, the global environment does not care where greenhouse gas comes from is emitted – a tonne of greenhouse gas does the same amount of damage to the global climate whether it comes from New Zealand sheepf*rts or a Chinese power plant. That being the case, a reduction in the amount of greenhouse gas emitted brings the same amount of benefit to the global climate wherever and however it is achieved. Why then is it wrong to pay for emissions reductions overseas rather than achieving emissions reductions ourselves?

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  59. minus (132 comments) says:

    Albert Ross
    Because the ETS is a monetary scam – funds here, funds there, actual emissions reduction nowhere.
    It seems the latest set up allows some New Zealand companies to profit from the scheme without reducing anything, in fact it pays them no to.

    If we have a proven problem ourselves it should be fixed or at least moved against as is practical. Simple as that. Too manu cows krapping in our rivers – fix it. Cattle emitting methane, investigate grasses that may produce less of this effect.
    Local countermeasures, not a fucking international monetary scam.

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  60. Don the Kiwi (1,576 comments) says:

    ross411 (56 comments) says:
    May 29th, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    What a brain-dead comment that was.

    Where did Pastor Hughes – or any church or churchmen for that matter – announce that they approve child abuse?

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  61. Judith (7,442 comments) says:

    ‘Personal responsibility” that’s what it’s all about.

    I have no problem with personal responsibility – but when I have to responsibly pay taxes that in part pay for the health care of those that aren’t personally responsible for the cost of the results of their ‘lack of personal responsibility’ then I expect the gummit to responsibly do something about the lack of responsibility.

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  62. muggins (2,983 comments) says:

    Hey, lilman,
    Don’t those ice hockey players wear mouthguards?
    And if I want to see people fighting each other I will watch a boxing match.
    https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/puck-daddy/our-long-nightmare-is-over–hockey-dad-designs-concussion-proof-helmet-192422661.html
    Take your point re concussions, but it seems that a helmet has now been designed to stop them.

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  63. lilman (882 comments) says:

    They also carry sticks,its all about passion and skill,and a bit of biff as well.

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  64. muggins (2,983 comments) says:

    I see the gummint has put the kybosh on that monorail down south, quite rightly so in my opinion.
    But the proposers are saying there would have been 1000 new jobs if it had gone ahead. 1000 new jobs?
    Surely not.

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  65. muggins (2,983 comments) says:

    No sticks required in Rugby and League, lil, but plenty of passion.

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  66. Albert_Ross (241 comments) says:

    minus, by insisting that New Zealand can only contribute to the global effort to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by taking action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in New Zealand, you would impose additional costs on New Zealanders for no additional environmental benefit.

    If the same amount of money can achieve a reduction of ten tonnes in New Zealand or a reduction of one hundred tonnes in China, is spending the money in New Zealand really the best thing New Zealand can do?

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  67. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “Oh to have a few dozen more Tony Ryall’s in the National Party parliamentary caucus and running the show.”

    Ryall is quitting.

    I think Key is getting rid of Nat’s like TR and replacing them with Progs who think like him.

    The Young Nats in particular are the most repugnant collection of little Prog dipshits. Hardly distinguishable from Young Labour.

    Can you imagine what a basket case the Nat party will be when they take control?

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  68. thedavincimode (6,512 comments) says:

    Good heavens.

    The man of principle is back yet again despite swearing this place off.

    Any reports of your conservative tidal wave on the horizon old dear, or is there only the slight ripple in the Tauranga from you dropping your walking stick over the side of the harbour bridge?

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  69. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    ….”is spending the money in New Zealand really the best thing New Zealand can do”….

    The best thing NZ could possibly do is come to its senses & realise that, in practice, nothing we do is going to make a pennyworth of difference to the climate one way or the other…..we’re simply too small as a country. In fact the only thing that the half baked ETS will accomplish is the bankrupting of our nation by making us uncompetitive with other primary producers.

    And this presumes that AGW isn’t a hoax dreamt up by the venal UN to facilitate their utopia of a NWO.

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  70. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “Good heavens.”

    You fags are such pathetically self absorbed people.

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  71. thedavincimode (6,512 comments) says:

    Great come-back from the old master of blather and bullshit.

    How are those 300 watt amps and your twenty foot high Polk speakers? Did you get more listening time in when you most recently stormed off in a huff announcing that you weren’t coming back?

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  72. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    ….”You fags are such pathetically self absorbed people”…..

    Get real Baity…..I’ll bet you’ve been cocked more times than Elmer Fudd’s shotgun. :)

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  73. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    Elmer is probably your real name you hick hillbilly loser.

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  74. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    Who reminds me more of Elmer Fudd, nasska or Reddy?

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  75. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    You remember “Deliverance” Milky.

    Some Hollywood trivia.

    Narsekissa was the guy who made the other guy squeal like a pig.

    The guy squealing like a pig?

    That was Thedavaselinemode.

    They actually became good buddies after that.

    Real good buddies.

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  76. wiseowl (751 comments) says:

    Kowtow.
    Garner interviewed that associate professor from the socialist OTAGO university and he said this new research gave the gummint the necessary info to do something about it.Meaning in particular taxing soft drinks.

    I wish these bloody do gooders would just piss off and why the hell has Otago been taken over by these lefty tell-us-what-to-do smartarses?

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  77. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    Otago is full of health fascists.

    In our local news the other day some smoke free comrades were awarding the Uni and Poly certificates for anti smoking measures.

    http://www.dunedintv.co.nz/content/local-institutes-recognised-their-smoke-free-policy

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  78. dad4justice (7,718 comments) says:

    Oh gawd help me the fags are attacking good ole redbaiter, big blouse will be along shortly with more queer woffle.

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  79. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    Yep Red the future is grim and from the downticks you get , it looks like Notional supporters are happy to turn left.

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  80. wiseowl (751 comments) says:

    If this study on kiwis getting fatter is based on BMI ,then I suggest it is BS.
    It’s another control mechanism straight out of the UN.Agenda 21

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  81. dad4justice (7,718 comments) says:

    kowtow National are a left party.

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  82. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    Can’t expect anything else Kowtow, this is after all the second biggest National Party blog in the country.

    And since when have Nat party supporters ever shown any objective judgment?

    I criticised Helen Klark harshly for being a socialist.

    My own self respect says I must similarly criticise John Key for being more so.

    Key has been a disaster. There was hope until that gutless compromiser and political con man showed up. IMHO that is.

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  83. dad4justice (7,718 comments) says:

    Key is just another socialist wimp happy riding the gravy train.

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  84. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    When you get drooling idiot National supporters saying stuff like this, its no wonder they’re practically indistinguishable from Labour-

    “The entire electorate has shifted many points to the Left over the past two decades & fortunately National have adapted & moved with it.”

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  85. EAD (567 comments) says:

    Redbaiter 6.30pm – you have hit another home run

    Never in my time in NZ has a government come in with such a mandate to fix the country and what has John Key done – he’s doubled down on the Helen Clark Government while issuing press releases and photo opportunities showing he is “a normal guy” and understands “hard-working Kiwi families”.

    My specialty is finance/economics and I enjoy getting on these threads and rebutting the National puff pieces on how great the National Government are at Central Planning and steering our economy towards the sun-lit uplands.

    Unfortunately if you contradict the “National are wonderful Economic Central Planners meme” with facts and reasons to their press releases and government statistics you are met with disbelief and anger or that you must be a “labour troll” (see today’s Minimum wage increase thread as a case in point).

    If it smells like a credit bubble, if it tastes like a credit bubble, then it probably is a credit bubble. Spending more than you earn is great………..until it is not.

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  86. deadrightkev (273 comments) says:

    Ross12 (1,015 comments) says:

    May 29th, 2014 at 9:53 am

    “On the KDC/Mana deal, Cam Slater has a suggestion”

    Except it was three days after someone else suggested it on Acts site. Cam copies stuff, he doesn’t think laterally.

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  87. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    EAD- Yes, IMHO JK’s biggest disappointment was in not leading. The country was ready to listen, and ready to give Key the keys to the car when they finally kicked HC out. And Key did nothing but smile and wave, making himself popular with the chattering classes at the expense of taking the country out of the socialist mire.

    The opportunity was there, begging to be taken and Key willfully ignored it.

    Nothing has changed from when Clark was PM except that the country has slipped further into the Progressive/ Socialist bog.

    Key has more idea of stand up comedy than he has of politics, and the idiot class love him for it.

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  88. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory
    future is, in fact, a return to the idealised past.

    — Robertson Davies

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  89. Johnboy (14,857 comments) says:

    I’d like to pop back to my twenties nasska when I had a full head of hair and a permanent hard on! :)

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  90. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    Old age isn’t what it’s cracked up to be JB….it just happens to beat the hell out of the alternative.

    And anyway haircuts & sex are overrated. :)

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  91. stigie (885 comments) says:

    You like to bitch and carry on Reddy about Key and National not up to the job….

    Tell us stupid progs how you would have done things differently through the GFC ole chap ?

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  92. stigie (885 comments) says:

    Your friend Minus is lurking behind the bushes again tonight JB ?

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  93. Lucia Maria (2,201 comments) says:

    This is in response to Harriet’s comment to me on the City of God thread.

    Harry, computer programming and all that does not require an indepth knowledge of maths. Programming is really a combination of logic and language. Maths, being the ultimate in logic and language, goes far beyond what is necessary for programming.

    Maths is generally not taught well in most countries, as it relies on memory and not everyone has a fantastic memory. I used to, which is why I did it easily. The memory is not as brilliant now, but exercising it and taking ginko and getting enough sleep helps somewhat.

    It would be better to study the computer language that you want to write in that learning more maths, in my opinion, unless you really want to study maths, that is. I’m studying maths because I would like to be able to help my year 12 boy with his maths and I’ve forgotten so much, I’m basically useless to him. But, I can still program blindfolded (almost – that’s kind of an analogy).

    Anyway, my recommendation for the budding maths student is Saxon Math. Available for order from Christian Book and Amazon, though Christian book are better at making sure that they have a comprehensive list of all book necessary for each level. At the top of the list of books are placement exams, so you can start at the appropriate level depending on your abilities.

    I’m currently working my way through Algebra 1, which is at a lower level than I’d like, but Saxon teaches a number of interesting concepts that I’ve never been taught, so I want to know then inside out before I get to the next level. I used these books when I was homeschooling my boys and they were brilliant.

    Holy cow, I just had a look at the Amibroker website! I’d get the books recommended on it and work through those if your aim is to use the thing. That’s what I did for any new software that I had to learn – get all the books on it, study it and try it out. Each environment is different and that’s what you’re learning when you learn new software, the environment and how to do what you need the thing to do.

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  94. thedavincimode (6,512 comments) says:

    The country was ready to listen

    Well, about 47% of the country as I recall. And therein lies the problem. But you would prefer 3 years of some “pull-yourselves- up-by-the-bootstraps” medicine that resulted in 12 or 15 years of cunners/norman/harawira/harre, just so that you could feel good.

    Sadly, the intelligence of the other 53% of the voting population is pretty much on a par with your own.

    This country was pretty well fucked by the Clark years. Your solution would make that final.

    But keep on being a boring old windbag with no answers at all. it suits you.

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  95. Tauhei Notts (1,601 comments) says:

    Last year when the Labour Party leadership contest was on I paid the $5 (I’m an old age pensioner) to join so that I could vote for Silent T. The bastards deserved him so on I went.
    Actually the $5 was money well spent. I get a lot of junk e mails, which like Penny Bright stuff on Kiwiblog I skim through.
    But what is of interest is the letters to the editor written by some phuckwit from Te Kauwhata, who sends them off to the Waikato Times. He is the local electorate leader. Yeah, I know this is boring, but his letter about Laila Harre is devastating. Boy oh boy have those dickheads got a downer on Harre.
    I wish I had the information technology skills to post the letter on here.

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  96. edhunter (489 comments) says:

    DaVinci Couldn’t have said it better

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  97. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “Your solution would make that final.”

    You are exactly the kind of left wing progressive establishment loser as in the UK said a few years ago that Nigel Farage was a swivel eyed loon who would never amount to anything. And Key is as useless as Cameron.

    Cameron and his turncoat Conservatives saying there’s no way out of the socialist death spiral and the courageous and spirited Farage making them look like the incompetent clueless fuckwits they are. Like National is in NZ.

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  98. stigie (885 comments) says:

    Yep, very well said DaVinci !~

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  99. OneTrack (2,559 comments) says:

    herald – “Despite the Maori Party’s admission, in Parliament Labour MP Grant Robertson accused National ministers of “bullying” the Maori Party into not changing their vote on Wednesday night soon after the bill was voted on.”

    Bullying? Robertson is a nasty little wally. The maori party happily admitted it was their cock-up and the vote has been changed. But the Robertson needs to prove once again why Labour are called the nasty party.

    Easier than doing the hard yards and coming up with coherent, costed policies, I guess.

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  100. Longknives (4,384 comments) says:

    I know it’s early but….

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/10101772/Obesity-fight-sees-lollies-banned-at-hospital

    What the hell? Nice to know that if you are on your last legs and feel like one last Peanut Slab or Mars Bar before you depart this Mortal Coil you will shuffle to the vending machine only to find Lentils and Mungbeans!

    The final insult! Fuck the Greens…

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  101. SPC (5,333 comments) says:

    It’s a hospital decision it has nothing to do with Greens or the Kremlin.

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  102. thedavincimode (6,512 comments) says:

    saying there’s no way out of the socialist death spiral

    The only way out of that spiral is changing the paradigm of the 53%. Clark created the problem in less than the course of her 9 year reign. Undoing the damage will take longer. Shouting and jerking off over your keyboard will not achieve that. The fact that you and a handful of arse-lickers think that 47% of the population could have turned this country around and achieved enduring change without this country descending into a prolonged dark age simply reflects your collective inability to understand human nature.

    I realise that you aren’t in favour of democracy and prefer the Stalinist model, but that won’t be happening. But by all means, knock yourself out masturbating away to your dream of the conservative hordes sweeping across the horizon.

    tweety, you are a complete and utter fraud. You bullshit and bluster, but at the end of the day you are just fuck all and you’ve got fuck all to add. A narcissistic dreamer still flicking through his schoolboy action hero comics.

    But please don’t go away again. Hang around and keep shoving both feet in your mouth.

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  103. deadrightkev (273 comments) says:

    There is no doubt that the National party has been a huge disappointment as a political party, certainly in my lifetime.

    They are closely followed by Act who did have a great start and blew it over the years. Jamie Whyte is the only hope for them and if they don’t get him in David Seymour will be toast on his own.

    While I do respect the office of the prime minister John Key must go down as the biggest underachiever at a time when he had the largest pool of political capital in a generation at least.

    I hope Act and the Conservatives get their shit together because National will run with Winston First when push comes to shove. Then it will be another three years of nothing but progressive thinking and UN tainted decision making.

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