Nanny Auckland

May 12th, 2014 at 1:00 pm by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

Auckland risks becoming a “nanny city” compared to party-friendly Wellington if a proposal to cut bar hours is adopted, a city councillor has warned.

Hot on the heels of new national 4am closing hours for bars, the wants to close Auckland pubs and clubs even earlier – at 3am in the city and Ponsonby, and 1am everywhere else.

Bars would not be able to sell shooters, shots or many cocktails after midnight throughout most of the city and not after 1am in city and Ponsonby bars.

The council’s proposed local policy, set to be approved for public consultation tomorrow, also specifies more restrictive hours for off-licences by limiting sales to not before 9am and not after 10pm.

National laws that began in December 2013 set off-licence hours from 7am to 11pm.

Auckland city councillor Cameron Brewer lashed out at the proposals and said Wellington would be the biggest winner from the proposed policy.

“This policy will make a joke of council’s latest marketing campaign that promotes Auckland as ‘the show that never stops’.”

Auckland has also made the same mistake as many other Councils and not distingished between types of off-licenses.  There’s a difference between people going into a bottle store to buy more spirits for a party and people wanting to buy a bottle of wine at the same time as they are doing their weekly groceries shopping. The proposed Auckland policy will inconvenience many responsible shoppers and drinkers – while not actually reducing alcohol abuse. A more targeted policy could reduce the inconvenience with no trade off in terms of reducing alcohol abuse.

Brewer said Auckland’s “puritan” laws had taken the new powers “to the extreme”. Events like champagne breakfasts for the Rugby World Cup or Commonwealth Games would become illegal with new minimum opening hours of 9am, he said.

Brewer said the limiting of off-licence hours would annoy a lot of people.

“Wine and beer will be roped off like we used to have in the old days when you couldn’t buy alcohol from supermarkets on Sundays. It’s ‘back to the future’ stuff,” he said.

“Mum and dad shoppers won’t be able to buy wine or beer with their weekly groceries before 9am and after 10pm.

“It makes no sense, particularly the morning ban . . . These grocery shoppers are not the problem.”

Exactly.

But councillor George Wood, who supported the proposal, said on-licence operators would be able to apply for extensions after a 12-month trial.

George is of course a former Police commander, and the Police view is that nothing good ever happens at 3 am. That’s an appalling view. I’ve been in town many times after 3 am with friends – and none of us have ever caused problems.

Wood said the Wellington City Council proposed 3am in its draft but 5am was adopted after consultation.

So will the Auckland Council listen, like Wellington did?

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46 Responses to “Nanny Auckland”

  1. MT_Tinman (3,044 comments) says:

    So will the Auckland Council listen, like Wellington did?

    Of course not.

    Being a local body politician means being able to tell people what to do, not having people tell you.

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  2. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Fabian Socialism works from a doorway. In this case Auckland. Then another city and another until the regulation filters right through the country. This is how NZ has slowly become a different nation from what we knew when we had free education, health and full employment. Exactly what Jenny Shipley meant when she stated we are not returning to the 60′s.

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  3. martinh (1,164 comments) says:

    I cant make heads to tail of this post.
    It says that wgtn has adopted a 5am closing time yet it also says there is a 4am national closing time.
    It says that you dont want to punish people getting a bottle of wine at the same time as the weekly shopping, but it doesnt say how you would be able to make that distinction. It seems to suggest that those going into bottle stores make all the trouble while those who buy at supermarkets dont. Many people i know like getting blatto on wine as its so cheap.
    It also says 3am closing is a terrible view as hes never caused any problems. Well a lot of people have drunk and drove and caused no problem does the author advocate allowing that

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  4. Mighty_Kites (83 comments) says:

    ” I’ve been in town many times after 3 am with friends – and none of us have ever caused problems”

    By the deductive powers of David Farrar, therefore nothing bad whatsoever happens after 3:00am. So so funny

    [DPF: Don't lie about what I have said. I have made no such claim.

    The Police Commander has said nothing good ever happens after 3 am. I have said that is incorrect. I have not claimed nothing bad ever happens after 3 am.

    Try not to misrepresent me in future]

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  5. RightNow (6,841 comments) says:

    martinh, re: Wellington 5am closing, the Stuff article said
    “Local council policies can override the national hours but Wellington’s proposed 5am closing is being appealed by police and health authorities”
    The rest I have no comment on.

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  6. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    I have to agree with Mr Kites…there is a fancy word (which I cant recall right now) which means “I have no problems with X therefore no-one else does/will”

    Quite simply if you need bars to be open till 5 am you are either a very poor planner (and havent got in supplies from the supermarket or liquor store) or you have a problem of one kind or another… in New York City bars arent open till 5 am FFS!

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  7. Rich Prick (1,633 comments) says:

    “the Wellington City Council proposed 3am in its draft but 5am was adopted after consultation.”

    And the Green Parrot was particularly pleased.

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  8. rouppe (943 comments) says:

    Don’t forget the unintended consequences.

    If the problem drinkers can’t get what they want from an off-licence they won’t just not buy anything. They will go to a supermarket and buy wine or beer from there. They just will.

    So while currently those buying wine with their shopping very early or very late aren’t the problem, the supermarket will become a problem source once the current source is closed off.

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  9. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    I challenge anyone who has a problem with this to take a stroll through (or even drive down!) Karangahape Rd at 4am on a Saturday.
    Let me know how that ends for ya…

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  10. dime (9,664 comments) says:

    “Quite simply if you need bars to be open till 5 am you are either a very poor planner (and havent got in supplies from the supermarket or liquor store) or you have a problem of one kind or another… in New York City bars arent open till 5 am FFS!”

    so youre happy to take away peoples rights eh?

    Personally, id like the right to get liquored up whenever i want and if i had a business that sold it – same deal!

    controlling bastards the lot of you

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  11. Sb (58 comments) says:

    “Quite simply if you need bars to be open till 5 am you are either a very poor planner (and havent got in supplies from the supermarket or liquor store) or you have a problem of one kind or another…”

    I work late/early shifts some times. We complete at about 4am, the team then has a couple of beers and heads home for some well deserved rest

    Explain to me how I have a problem ? (other than working those sorts of hours!)

    >controlling bastards the lot of you

    Well said

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  12. unaha-closp (1,140 comments) says:

    That’s an appalling view. I’ve been in town many times after 3 am with friends – and none of us have ever caused problems.

    Did the same bunch of idiot nannying politicians stop bars from serving after 4am?

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  13. All_on_Red (1,489 comments) says:

    Politicians like George (dead) Wood are the part of the problem. Time for a clean out and getting rid of this permanently ensconced ruling bludging class which trade on name recognition to get in.

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  14. MT_Tinman (3,044 comments) says:

    dime (8,889 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 1:55 pm
    “Quite simply if you need bars to be open till 5 am you are either a very poor planner (and havent got in supplies from the supermarket or liquor store) or you have a problem of one kind or another… in New York City bars arent open till 5 am FFS!”

    so youre happy to take away peoples rights eh?

    Personally, id like the right to get liquored up whenever i want and if i had a business that sold it – same deal!

    controlling bastards the lot of you

    So well put I had to repeat it.

    Many many moons ago I finished work at 04:00.

    I would have really enjoyed a relaxing beer after work but the bastards like those Dime comments on denied me that opportunity, all because of their own selfishness.

    Bastards!

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  15. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    I believe the philosophy is called “utilitarianism” – the greatest good for the greatest number.

    How many shift workers who finish at 4 am are there staggering around the CBD at 5 am? Or drinking quitely in some bar for that matter? The cops say “nothing good happens after 3 am” for a very good reason – they are THERE, night after night, weekend after weekend. Once in a very blue moon they might come across DPF and his very civilized mates walking along Courtenay Place singing a cheerful song, bothering no-one.

    The rest of the time they have to deal with the fights and the sexual assaults and the rapes and the GBH and the public urination and the wilful damage that occurs when DPF and his mates have passed by…

    But then Auckland/Wellington are so much more exciting cities than the Big Apple…

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  16. Sb (58 comments) says:

    “The rest of the time they have to deal with the fights and the sexual assaults and the rapes and the GBH and the public urination and the wilful damage that occurs when DPF and his mates have passed by…”

    Then take it up with the people who are doing that not me and David walking along singing under a blue moon!

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  17. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Sb: Genuine question…when were you last out on the town at 4 am? (Or 3 am for that matter). Did you enjoy yourself? Were most people out at the same time singing a happy tune or doing one or more of the things I listed above?

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  18. Sb (58 comments) says:

    David Garret:

    Genuine answer, Approx 4 months ago. I believe we completed work at 4am, we went to several bars and ended up in the Whitehouse at closing time which I think is 6:30

    Did I enjoy myself – yes I believe we all did (approx 4 off us)

    I saw nobody singing or misbehaving, it was fairly quiet – I seem to remember people moving about but nothing happened that made me remember any misbehavior as we moved between the bars/club

    We had two visiting engineers with us who seemed to think things we all good

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  19. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Sb: Fair enough…

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  20. Ed Snack (1,798 comments) says:

    I would have thought, David, that these days you would only be in town at 5 am on the way to an early marathon start !

    Actually that’s when I was last in Auckland at 4:30-5:00 am, walking from Victoria Park across to the ferry terminal en route to Devonpart for the marathon start. There’s a few night clubs on the way and their patrons were spilling out across the footpath at that time. And the spilling was literal; as I recall a couple were being ill, one in the gutter, one over behind some sort of sign, I think someone else was pissing in the same area but to be fair I couldn’t (and didn’t want) to see if they were, the stance was right though ! Another couple were sitting slumped by the kerb, probably waiting for a taxi, other were wandering off. It was pretty quiet though, no shouting or fighting, possibly because a couple of large bouncers were watching on.

    It was an interesting view at a different world for me, and I’d have to say that none of them looked particularly happy, most looked a bit lost, or a bit quiet and pale. Mind you, they probably felt like I did some hours later when finishing; completely stuffed and badly in need of some re-hydration.

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  21. RightNow (6,841 comments) says:

    DG – I’ve had some experience being out all night (although not in the last decade). In my experience those that were going to cause trouble were already in that state long before 3am.
    Those that start drinking much later (e.g. shift workers, hospo workers) aren’t actually able to get that drunk.
    The other group of people I’ve seen out at that time weren’t even drinking – they were loved up clubbers who very much wanted to avoid drunk people.

    In my opinion the answer is to target the troublemakers.

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  22. 2boyz (255 comments) says:

    When I started drinking seriously closing time was 11.00pm, man you could drink a lot between 7 & 11. I was young and the whole idea was to get toasted. Early 90′s it changed to pretty much open all night, sure I stayed out till the wee small hours but it was to watch live music, dance and have fun (I don’t think I truly got excessively drunk during those times). I’m now old and would be lucky if I could last out till 3.00am (trips to town are very infrequent) at the best of times (wallet would probably give up before I could).

    What am I trying to say, if it was good enough for us older types it should be good enough for the current crop to have a fair shake and if they want to stay out till 4am plus and spend their hard earned cash on over priced booze then so be it. Drunken fighting in town has always been a problem (has it got any worst) I don’t know!

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  23. dime (9,664 comments) says:

    “The cops say “nothing good happens after 3 am” for a very good reason – they are THERE, night after night, weekend after weekend. Once in a very blue moon they might come across DPF and his very civilized mates walking along Courtenay Place singing a cheerful song, bothering no-one.”

    No worries statist.

    Lets see if DG enjoys anything i think should be banned, in the name of the greater good.

    Personally, im over this bullshit where we govern to the lowest common denominator. fuck em. if they are doing bad shit at 4am while drunk, jail. solved.

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  24. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    This is not the only place where an ex cop has become a councillor. Nothing good ever comes of it. He may have been a great cop but enforcement is not legislation, or public policy. Different skill sets.

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  25. Akaroa (552 comments) says:

    In response to a comment that “…..the Police view is that nothing good ever happens at 3 am….”. David responded that
    “I’ve been in town many times after 3 am with friends – and none of us have ever caused problems.”

    Well, David, I’m sure that is so, and I would have been surprised had it been otherwise.

    But it doesn’t mean that the Police view is incorrect.

    I live in Central Akl, and I can assure you that bad things sometimes do happen in the streets in the wee small hours.

    (Hat-tip to Mighty Kites at 1.27 btw)

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  26. MT_Tinman (3,044 comments) says:

    David Garrett (5,312 comments) says:
    May 12th, 2014 at 2:59 pm
    Genuine question…when were you last out on the town at 4 am? (Or 3 am for that matter). Did you enjoy yourself? Were most people out at the same time singing a happy tune or doing one or more of the things I listed above?

    David Garrett, up until recently I was a nightshift cabbie in ChCh working until 06:00 six mornings a week.

    I can assure you I saw none of “the fights and the sexual assaults and the rapes and the GBH and the public urination and the wilful damage” of which you speak during those later hours in the morning, all of them occuring earlier in the night when the nutters were fresh and energised.

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  27. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    dime: You have a point…and if pissed louts interfering with ordinary people’s enjoyment DID get the weekend in jail I woudl agree with you…but they don’t, and they won’t..

    I’m sure you are very well aware that it is pretty difficult to get sent to prison in this country…The average villain has been before the courts 10 times before jail is the penalty…

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  28. Chuck Bird (4,765 comments) says:

    “I believe the philosophy is called “utilitarianism” – the greatest good for the greatest number.”

    DG, I think utilitarianism makes a lot more sense than libertarianism.

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  29. Scott (1,736 comments) says:

    Yes, agree very much with David Garrett. I watch the shows on TV showing what happens in Britain late at night. The police and ambulance officers trying to look after all the sick vomiting drunk people who when not throwing up are fighting each other. I would suggest if we are going to have late night closing then we should have rigorous police enforcement of trouble makers. A good hiding for drunken louts and a night on jail and stiff penalties for public drunkenness might do the trick. Liberal drinking hours and the softly softly approach to law enforcement is certainly not working.

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  30. dime (9,664 comments) says:

    “dime: You have a point…and if pissed louts interfering with ordinary people’s enjoyment DID get the weekend in jail I woudl agree with you…but they don’t, and they won’t..”

    so its easier to give up and take other peoples freedom to earn a living away? wtf? stand tall man!

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  31. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    dime: I have some knowledge of the political process, and what is doable and what isnt…I know damn well the Nats would never support a “drunken larrikism = jail” policy…it’s very easy to say – as people do to me – “why did ya have three strikes? One’s enough”…the answer is “because there is a limit to what the mainstream party will support”.

    I recall being in Melbourne about 15 years ago…my then wife and I came back from a show in the city, and walked down Lygon Street about 1 am…the Lygon Street festival was on…I couldnt pick what was so different from NZ…until I innocently walked down the road carrying a can of beer…I suddenly realised I was the only person doing so, and asked a cop if it was illegal. He said “Yes it bloody ees mate, but I can tell you’re a key-wee so just sit down there and no worries”.

    The difference from NZ was twofold: 1) there WERE no drunken larrikans staggering about; because 2) if they were, the cops would swiftly clean up the street. Result: my wife and I enjoyed a couple of hours of jazz music at a couple of bars without anyone chundering near us or trying to start a fight…

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  32. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    David G

    How do you reckon a reintroduction of the drunk tanks of yore would go?

    A couple of my then pisshead mates did a night in one in Wellington in the late 60′s & it wasn’t an experience they had any ambition to repeat.

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  33. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Nasska: I think they would be an excellent idea…except again, they would never happen, because now and again someone would get killed in one and we can’t have that..everyone now must be protected from themselves, no matter how foolish they are…

    I got chucked into a tank in Munich 100 years ago, and it certainly wasnt an experience I cared to repeat…I was working the rigs at the time and at my physical peak… But I was shit scared of a couple of krauts who decided they’d like to see my willy…couldn’t wait until morning…

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  34. Nukuleka (276 comments) says:

    So if we’re not tanked up and able to drink at all hours of day and not night we are not living life to the full! What tosh. There’s far too many alcohol problems in NZ and bars/ clubs do not need to be open at all hours.

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  35. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    Your Munich experience pretty much echoed what my mates went through. They reckon they were hit on & if there hadn’t been the two of them things could have got fairly tricky. With not a wink of sleep & dodging piss & spew all night they were the worse for wear when they were let out in the morning.

    Didn’t collect a lot a sympathy from the rest of us though. :)

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  36. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Nasska: Believe me, your German poofter (I’ll probably collect some more demerits for that term) is not easily dissuaded!! Very little finesse your German ‘ biter…I certainly wouldnt want to repeat the experience now I am 9 years off the pension…

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  37. bc (1,353 comments) says:

    We’ll said Mighty Kites, David G and others.
    Typical comment from dime – it’s all about him and his ‘right’ to get pissed.
    Who cares about the people on the frontline dealing with the mess, it’s just their job right?

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  38. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    bc: to be fair, I doubt dime ever causes anyone any problems when he’s out and about…its your 25 year old wanker who wants to show how tough he is who is the problem…

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  39. dime (9,664 comments) says:

    BC – actually I do get the shits with bitchy front liners. Change job if ya don’t like it. My bro was a front line cop for a good ten years, he never went whining and insisting we change laws.

    Many a soldier died so we could drink piss all night and wake up with some new stories.

    What percentage of tanked up dudes actually cause trouble? How many arrests on a Saturday night vs how many thousands of people out.

    The type. Of shit head who does cause trouble will just cause it earlier, it is their type. They will start earlier or drink quicker.

    Dg – I know it’s about what the idiotic, socialist conditioned public will accept. But at some point we gotta say fuck you, take responsibility for your own shit. Dimes isn’t weak, doesn’t need a nanny state. Fuck the weak :)

    Rant over.

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  40. Southern Raider (1,748 comments) says:

    The issue isn’t the people who have been in bars. It is the young idiots who just pre load and hang out in the streets causing shit.

    Make it illegal to be in town after 10pm unless your over 25. Bars could be open 24/7 and there would be hardly any problem.

    Like DPF I occasionally get absolutely snotted until the early hours, but have never been kicked out of bars, got into fights etc

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  41. Couchpotatoe (28 comments) says:

    Sensible changes being mooted given the immaturity of New Zealanders towards alcohol. Make it an offense to be drunk in a public place, that would sort the wheat from the Chaff.

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  42. prosper (141 comments) says:

    With all you guys wanting to control people I thought I accidentally logged on to the Standard. People get drunk. Well let’s find somebody to blame. Couldn’t be their fault. Whose? Oh it must be the club’s, the hours, the bars.
    How about personal responsibility. Drunk in a public place. Holding cells for 12 hours. The same as it was before Geoffrey bloody Palmer changed the law.

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  43. RmW (18 comments) says:

    Longknives says: “I challenge anyone who has a problem with this to take a stroll through (or even drive down!) Karangahape Rd at 4am on a Saturday.”

    This comment read like a good example of someone laying down a gauntlet argument based on reading news items and not actually being there. I have done what you say, hundreds of times in fact over the course of the last decade. I have never once felt or been threatened, nor been assaulted. I have seen some testosterone fuelled posing on a number of occasions but, for the most part it’s just people having fun. It’s just a different sort of fun from what most people prefer so the tendency is to write it off as being not legit, or not worthy of letting them keep doing. The percentage of people acting like dicks would be less than at the average rugby test at Eden Park – let’s shut down rugby and then see how many people enjoy crap policy being rammed down their throats.

    The police have badly oversold the whole “nothing good happens after 3am” line. It is an indictment of their sad lack of creativity or willingness to promote policy ideas which don’t target those who don’t cause most of the issue. They just picked a crap policy idea from their Australian counterparts that sounds legit to people who don’t care and which makes their life easier.

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  44. RmW (18 comments) says:

    David Garrett says: “…The cops say “nothing good happens after 3 am” for a very good reason – they are THERE, night after night, weekend after weekend…”

    Sorry, but I have to call you out on this David. Of course the police say nothing good happens after 3am. They’re the ones who get called to incidents/fights while the vast majority of people out at night are elsewhere having a good time reponsibly. The police don’t get to experience or enjoy the good side of it SPECIFICALLY because they’re there to address the bad stuff in society. The saying should actually be: nothing good happens ever.

    It takes a particularly ignorant point of view to believe the “nothing good happens after 3am” line. It is police desperately trying to peddle their version of life in a simple, easy to grasp package to media outlets as part of their ongoing PR and lobbying campaign to get the policy they want brought in.

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  45. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I have only been out late on K Road once, recently. I was with my tiny Asian girlfriend and neither of us knew the places to go. Everywhere we went I noted good natured and interesting people. The funny thing was when I checked my eftpos transactions and noted in capitals THE BIG GAY DAY. We guessed that was the styley place where the guys seemed to get on well and there were some very very tall and toned looking “women” :)

    You are more likely to find trouble in a small intolerant town with bored people.

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  46. dime (9,664 comments) says:

    “The saying should actually be: nothing good happens ever.” – outstanding

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