Banks found guilty

June 5th, 2014 at 2:28 pm by David Farrar

One News reports:

has been found guilty of knowingly filing a false electoral return after his failed Auckland mayoral campaign in 2010. …

Banks faces a jail sentence of up to two years or a $10,000 fine.

He won’t get a jail sentence, but unless he is discharged without conviction, he will lose his seat in Parliament.

S55(1)(d) of the states:

The seat of any member of Parliament shall become vacant if he or she is convicted of an offence punishable by imprisonment for life or by 2 or more years’ imprisonment

The Speaker will declare his seat vacant once he receives the judgment.

S131(a) also states:

Notwithstanding anything in section 129, no writ shall be issued for a by-election to supply a vacancy in the House of Representatives if the vacancy arises in the period of 6 months ending with the date of the expiration of the Parliament and a resolution that a writ not be issued to supply the vacancy is passed by a majority of 75% of all the members of the House of Representatives

I expect a motion to this effect will be moved on the next House sitting day (Tuesday) and after a two hour or so debate, passed.

It will mean that the Government will only have 60 out of 120 seats for the remainder of its term and will be unable to pass laws without the support of the Maori Party or some other party or MP.

A very sad way for John Banks to end his political career, but a lesson for all politicians to take the utmost care when doing donation returns – and err on the side of transparency.

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169 Responses to “Banks found guilty”

  1. alex Masterley (1,517 comments) says:

    Watch the gloating begin.

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  2. questions (207 comments) says:

    Lacto-fermented cabbage and obesity!!

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  3. Captain Pugwash (98 comments) says:

    I guess that’s one judge who wont get a knighthood

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  4. Igotta Numbum (463 comments) says:

    Will every other MP now be shitting bricks? Because let’s face it, they’ve been doing it this way for years.

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  5. pedrogarcia (52 comments) says:

    Justice has been served. And that is always a good thing.

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  6. BeaB (2,123 comments) says:

    We know this was something just about everyone did. Banks is the fall guy and all the gloaters will now find their life that much harder raising money and accounting for it.
    But it’s a simple rule – never sign anything you haven’t read.
    It would also be good if we could see an end to these pointless court cases. Couldn’t there just be a ticking off by the electoral commission or something? After all, who cares really?

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  7. Floyd60 (92 comments) says:

    He will be discharged without conviction.

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  8. Nostalgia-NZ (5,214 comments) says:

    Not the QC’s best hour, saying it was a Dotcom conspiracy didn’t explain away the Sky Casino cheque. Had Banks had the presence of mind he may have been able to have successfully used the defence nookin made out on his behalf last week, but of course he’d tried silence, loss of memory and other futility by then.

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  9. David Farrar (1,898 comments) says:

    He should have done what Peters did and have your party secretary kept out of the loop, so when she filed false returns, she could not be prosecuted as she genuinely didn’t know the returns were false, and Peters could not be prosecuted as he did not sign the return.

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  10. lifesgood (15 comments) says:

    So what he really should have done is set up a secret trust as per Cunliffe and Brown. Utter hypocrisy from the left

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  11. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    No corruption in New Zealand……….tui moment.

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  12. rouppe (971 comments) says:

    This is going to embolden Dotcom

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  13. Huevon (222 comments) says:

    Banks is, like all of us, a flawed man. Despite adversity, he has achieved more in his life than many others could, even if they had the chance 10 times over. Now we get to enjoy the ignominy of seeing the boot put into him by the haters, the tall poppies, the socialist toadies, and every leftie bottom feeder that clings to that fat German scum bag.

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  14. ManuT (54 comments) says:

    Damn! you Banks

    The only thing worse than the big stuff-ups on the left is a tiny stuff-up on the right. The media will slaughter you now and you deserve it. They will go into orgasm over at the Standard.

    I argued your case against two of my beneficiary friends who have just invited me to join them at a bar for celebration. I would now be happy if you did some time for the simple fact you have ruined my day. Arsehole!

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  15. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    Well done Penny, you were right about something for once.

    It’s sad to see it confirmed that we have to rely on private prosecutions by disaffected people with chips on their shoulders ordinary citizens to uphold the electoral law, because the NZ Police are either uninterested in, or incapable of, doing so.

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  16. Chuck Bird (4,891 comments) says:

    “I guess that’s one judge who wont get a knighthood”

    You want to bet? If the coalition of losers get in he might.

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  17. wreck1080 (3,919 comments) says:

    One thing I question is the reluctance to prosecute him in the first place.

    Why did it take a private prosecution, it almost makes you wonder if there was a conspiracy not to prosecute.

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  18. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    We still don’t know who funded Len Brown at the same election. Dotcom also? But Brown isn’t in court.

    And we still don’t know who funded David Cunliffe’s leadership campaign, because he refuses to tell us. But Cunliffe isn’t in court.

    I’m baffled why Banks was charged, but Cunliffe and Brown weren’t. Surely our electoral law should aim to prevent corruption, rather than being all about compliance with process? And as for corruption, Dotcom wanted Banks to help him but Banks didn’t so there is no corruption on Banks part. But Brown demanded and received tens of thousands of bucks worth of free services from Sky City.

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  19. Floyd60 (92 comments) says:

    Stuff reports

    “Prosecutor Paul Dacre said rather than directly hand the SkyCity cheque to his campaign treasurer who was “10 paces away”, Banks gave the SkyCity cheque to a middleman to pass on to the treasurer.

    “Banks engineered the situation so (the treasurer) had no information and could not list them as anything other than anonymous,” Dacre said.

    “Failure to advise was not simply an oversight.”

    Nice.

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  20. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    Let’s see,folk here are saying nothing to see move along please and yet here’s Banksie guilty, fingers pointing at how dodgy Labour do it, how dodgy NZ First do it.Then we have fatty buying mana,the Greens have some funny arrangements about salaries or allowances goin gto the party etc

    Then of course national are up to their eye balls in Chinese property developers donations…….who’s a dodgy boy too.

    Something very rotten in the state of Aotearoa.

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  21. Chuck Bird (4,891 comments) says:

    It is a bloody shame that National or ACT would not do a private prosecution against Clark when she signed a painting she did not paint where an artist would normal sign. I made $1,000 offer for the painting but was not prepared to match the $5,500 Clark’s supporter paid to destroy the evidence without some help.

    I can still not see how Clark could have avoided a conviction.

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  22. lastmanstanding (1,297 comments) says:

    Banks was bought down by Kim Schmidt. JK should beware that Kim Schmidt is out to get him and the Nats and with Banks has proved he is capable.
    If JK and the Nats have a brain they will tell Maurice to step aside find him a nice cussy number post 20 Sept and tell Pakuranga votes to vote for Collin C.
    Other wise we will have a Labour/Green/New Zealand First/Internet Mana Government post election the Capital markets and dollar will collapse interest rates and inflation will soar to bot be in double digits come mid 2015 or earlier.

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  23. tas (625 comments) says:

    I’m surprised by the judgement, as I think Banks is clearly innocent. He’s guilty of negligence, but not of malice. There is simply no motive – he had nothing to gain and, had he wanted to hide donations, he could have used a trust.

    I would like to see the judge’s reasoning.

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  24. JMS (330 comments) says:

    Does anyone know if Banks could have opted for trial by jury on this one?

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  25. JamesBlake (62 comments) says:

    Um davidp, Cunliff named the donors that consented and returned the money to those who didn’t. The law didn’t allow him to do anything different. He was stupid to get himself in the situation where he was using the trust in the first place but in the end there is really no law broken. Banks on the other hand has been found guilty.

    Feel free if you like to start a private prosecution against them though if you think they have broken the law. Aparently it works.

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  26. burt (8,275 comments) says:

    Compare and contrast how Banks was treated v Peters.

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  27. Nostalgia-NZ (5,214 comments) says:

    Maybe we see the reason why MPs parliamentary life should be unable to extend past a certain period. Though he’s no favourite of mine I sincerely hope that JB takes this in his stride, he’s achieved a lot and has the opportunity to reflect publicly on this to the extent that a long public/political life can lead to poor decisions – even for servants of the people like himself. This is another test he faces now and hopefully he will do so with dignity.

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  28. peterwn (3,273 comments) says:

    This again highlights the inaction of the police in dealing with electoral offences, rather not dealing with them. This includes the John Banks case – it took an ordinary individual to set the ball rolling in this case. Perhaps Parliament should vote the police a sum for investigation and prosecution of electoral offences in a similar manner to the special vote for road traffic policing.

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  29. iMP (2,385 comments) says:

    So, its now even:

    C. Right 60seats

    C.Left 49
    Maori 03
    NZF 07
    Horan 01

    Reveals the wisdom of John Key’s early (and unnecessary) long-term strategic approach to the Maori party.

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  30. JMS (330 comments) says:

    burt,

    if Peters were treated like Banks, Peters would launch an all out attack on “judicial corruption” and probably gain an additional two percent at the next election.

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  31. Nick R (507 comments) says:

    Not so fast! I don’t think he will be removed from Parliament just yet. The Judge has delayed sentencing until 1 August, and there is likely to be an application for a discharge without conviction then. The Judge can still discharge Banks even though he has been convicted. If he does, the conviction won’t count as far as the Electoral Act is concerned.

    At any event, Parliament rises at the end of July, so it won’t make a difference. Banks should remain as a MP right up to the last sitting day.

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  32. anticorruptionnz (215 comments) says:

    Good on Graeme McCready and Penny . lets hope that Private prosecutions will bring about a change to corruption in New Zealand.

    it appears that my complaints to my Local MP on corruption went no where because he was corrupt himself.

    Time for change onward and upward. lets make those in power as accountable to the law as we are.

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  33. thePeoplesFlag (245 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  34. JMS (330 comments) says:

    So if banks had been a list MP, he would now get replaced and it would be 61 for the centre right.

    I’m not necessarily against proportional representation, but this MMP seems to combine the worst of FPP and pure-PR into one.

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  35. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    It is with sorrow one sees a man of Banks’ calibre subjected to this crap because of a lowlife, obese, criminal slug, not dissimilar in nature and stature to Kim Jong Un. I hope the recipients of this fat piece of scum’s donations are shitting in their boots while awaiting his demands for services rendered, being part of his modus operandi. Don’t gloat too much lefties, there is maybe news afoot over the young man molested at the Labour function.

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  36. georgebolwing (854 comments) says:

    Given the Roy Morgan poll, the PM must be tempted to pass the budget under urgency, relying on the confidence and supply agreements with UF and the Maori Party, dissolve the House and have an earlish election, on the grounds that he is not prepared to try and run parliament with no effective majority.

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  37. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘a man of Banks’ calibre’
    I always knew igm had to be a fan of someone!

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  38. JamesBlake (62 comments) says:

    JMS

    Party vote is for that, a party. Individuals coming and going do not change which party voters cast for.
    Electorate votes are for a person, Epsom voters ticked the box for John Banks. They should get the oportunity to decide who replaces him. The timing here means this will happen at the next general election.

    That seems pretty fair.

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  39. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    mikenwimp: You left-wing arseholes have never, and could not have, achieved 2% of what Banks has, with no formal education, jailbird parents, and no hope. You, personally, have nothing, are a loser, and known dreamer, yet had a perfect start in life . . . you are in no position to criticise anyone.

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  40. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    It highlights the risks of dealing with (and accepting money from) a German fraudster.

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  41. mjw (396 comments) says:

    I would like to express some support and consideration for John Banks. I might not agree with him on many things,
    but he has a long history of public service which I think all should respect. This will be a difficult day for him. Perhaps rightly so, but nobody is perfect and I hope he will pull beyond this. A discharge without conviction seems entirely appropriate to me. He has already paid a heavy price.

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  42. cha (4,028 comments) says:

    It highlights the risks of dealing with (and accepting money from) a German fraudster casino operator.

    fify

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  43. itstricky (1,836 comments) says:

    A very sad way for John Banks to end his political career, but a lesson for all politicians to take the utmost care when doing donation returns – and err on the side of transparency.

    You’re kidding right? “Err on the side of transparency”? Err….Everybody knows to read the small print of everything they sign their names to. Are you infering that it “wasn’t his fault” because he didn’t know that?

    Seesh.

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  44. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    Silent T has suddenly forgotten the venal Philip Field: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8855622/govt-was-propped-up-by-corrupt-mp

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  45. 2boyz (262 comments) says:

    I’m predicting a wet noodle and a wrist. The wrist will be slapped with the said wet noodle and that will be the end of the matter. Still Banks political career is over.

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  46. eszett (2,410 comments) says:

    JMS (239 comments) says:
    June 5th, 2014 at 3:02 pm
    So if banks had been a list MP, he would now get replaced and it would be 61 for the centre right.

    I’m not necessarily against proportional representation, but this MMP seems to combine the worst of FPP and pure-PR into one.

    This would normally trigger a by-election, which is pretty pointless 4 months out of a general election. Not many controversial laws are going to be passed anyway.

    Can’t see really see what your point is or what you would want to do differently.

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  47. deckboy (18 comments) says:

    Wait until the Horrid publishes this news tomorrow and witness the avalanche of nasty lefties comments. They are probably composing them right now ready to paste and be the first. They have long forgotten all the corruption that went on under Helen Clark’s watch.

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  48. itstricky (1,836 comments) says:

    I always knew igm had to be a fan of someone!

    I, too, had pretty much conclued that everyone was shitty obese left wing nose picking communist pond scum bottom feeders. I am presently surprised.

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  49. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    @ georgebowling – the PM has confidence and supply from the Maori Party, so there is no need to go to the country early. Constitutionally, his government is assured.

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  50. JamesBlake (62 comments) says:

    Thank godness we have the IGM’s of the worl dto clarify that lefties can’t be successful. Have that Gareth Morgan.

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  51. anonymouse (716 comments) says:

    As mentioned by Nick R,

    The sentencing will not occur until August 1 ( after the house rises), as there is an application for discharge wihout conviction, I don’t think that anything regarding a vacancy can occur until sentencing happens.

    the Electoral act says the vacancy only occurs on convection,

    Whether Banks will show up for the remaining 15 days of parliament is another question…

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  52. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    So as I understand it, Banks has not yet been convicted?

    edit – ok I see that has been answered

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  53. alex Masterley (1,517 comments) says:

    No conviction has been entered against Mr Banks.
    He is on remand pending the sentencing hearing.

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  54. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Well done Graham McCready, you proved the cops wrong and corrupt again.

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  55. unaha-closp (1,165 comments) says:

    He won’t get a jail sentence…

    Why not?

    Phillip Field got six years of a possible seven. Got to come down hard on this sort of thing.

    A very sad way for John Banks to end his political career…

    John Banks has always been very hard nosed on criminal activity and in favour of stiffer sentences.

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  56. David Garrett (7,292 comments) says:

    Its an idiot: Clark certainly knew that the painting she signed hadn’t been painted by her…everyone (on the left) has conveniently forgotten that a complaint was made about her…that the Policeman assigned to investigate the complaint concluded that there was a prima facie case of fraud…the matter was then kicked up to the Commissioner’s office where THEY concurred that fraud had been committed. From there, the file was referred to Crown Law – the boss of which was Attorney General Margaret Wilson – where very conveniently it was decided it was “not in the public interest” to prosecute the bitch. As the 4 Square Ad used to say: “How convenient”

    Oh, and before you raise my supposedly false affidavit re the bullshit conviction in Tonga, the Police put out a press release – after an investigation which IIRC lasted more than a year – saying there was no evidence of criminal offending. Six weeks later another release on the Darren Hughes affair said that there was “insufficient evidence to sustain a prosecution”….a very different kind of statement. Hughes then very foolishly told the MSM he had been the victim of a false complaint. The Police were quick to say that there was no question of a false complaint having been made…they just didn’t have enough evidence to reasonably expect a conviction.

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  57. JMS (330 comments) says:

    Can’t see really see what your point is or what you would want to do differently.

    eszett,

    My problem is the two classes of MPs, and all the inconsistencies it causes.

    On a micro level MMP in Germany is an absolute shambles. It’s not much better here.

    Smaller, regionalised party lists for multi-member regional electorates , with just one type of MP, would be better.

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  58. tvb (4,425 comments) says:

    The conviction has not been entered yet so the seat will not be declared vacant until 1 august at the earliest. And if he is discharged without conviction then the seat will NOT be declared vacant.

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  59. georgebolwing (854 comments) says:

    Keeping stock: I apprecaite that the Government has confidence and supply agreements in place and that after the budget is passed, there are no formal confidence vots until the election.

    I recall, however, that in 2002, the then PM helen Clark went to the GG and got an early elelction on the grounds that while she had confidence and supply agrements in place with the (by then fractured) Alliance, she was not willing to continue parliament with the unceratinity of not being able to pass any other bills. The GG agreed. So there is a precedent. Of course, the famous ‘gin soaked’ early election of 1983 was also given on the grounds that the then PM could not be assured of Marlyn Waring’s vote, even though Waring had give a public committment to be bound by the National Party whip.

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  60. deadrightkev (469 comments) says:

    Act has always been hopelessly organised and administered unprofessionally. I feel sorry for Banks.

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  61. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    deadrightkev
    I think you’ll find this had nothing to do with Act. It predated Banks’s hop to that party.

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  62. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    I want to hear from the cops. Why did it take a private person to bring a successful prosecuted.

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  63. itstricky (1,836 comments) says:

    David Garrett,

    This is not tit-for-tat through the years. As you correctly identified we could go on about that for ever. And if we did, a worthless painting for a charity auction 10+ years ago doesn’t hold much on a $50k donation for the Mayor of Auckland.

    I am simply making the stark observation that DPF has gone easy on Mr Banks.

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  64. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    “I want to hear from the cops.”

    That’s lucky, they’re on their way.

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  65. wikiriwhis business (4,016 comments) says:

    Good. Accountability in high places. We finally starting to get somewhere.

    Actually got nothing against Banksy but visible, real accountabilty in political places, esp within conservatve ranks is a pleasure to see.

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  66. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Kim Dot Com, a man of proven integrity.

    “The judge said he found internet mogul Kim Dotcom, his estranged wife Mona and his former security guard Wayne Tempero, who all gave evidence, to be reliable witnesses”

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  67. wikiriwhis business (4,016 comments) says:

    “No conviction has been entered against Mr Banks.
    He is on remand pending the sentencing hearing.”

    That’s the strangest statement I seen in a long time. Why has he lost his seat?

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  68. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    wiki
    He hasn’t lost his seat, and won’t until a conviction is formally entered. He will probably apply to be discharged without conviction.

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  69. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “discharged without conviction.”

    On what grounds?

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  70. tvb (4,425 comments) says:

    A conviction is required for the seat to be declared vacant. The conviction will not be entered until at the sentencing hearing. Bank’s lawyer has signalled at that hearing that an application will be made to discharge Banks without conviction, which if successful Banks will have NO conviction.

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  71. Unity (584 comments) says:

    One win to KDC. JK be very afraid!! Actually I feel it is a shame that John Banks’ career has ended in this way because he has done so much on the good side. He was a fool to conveniently ‘forget’ important events as me should have known with so many others around at the time that the truth would come out. I still feel sorry for him though and even more against KDC. What business does he have meddling with our systems and trying to pay for convenient outcomes?

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  72. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘On what grounds?’ Being Banksy.

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  73. altiora (279 comments) says:

    National needs to grasp the nettle by the thorns and be seen to do something. There is one consistent link and that is KDC who is corrupting our democracy. But then it takes two to tangle: parties should not be taking donations willy nilly. Have some sense. Nor should they be entertaining dodgy Chinese plutocrats; nothing will rouse anti-Asian prejudice than that. I have had a gutsful of rich foreigners; shut the door and for God’s sake let us be content with being such a great country as we are. We don’t need to be corrupted by foreign influences. That doesn’t mean racism; it just means that we should be discerning about who we let in and whether they share our values and want a better life, like our Maori and Pakeha forebearers wanted in coming to this country.

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  74. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Bank’s lawyer has signalled at that hearing that an application will be made to discharge Banks without conviction, which if successful Banks will have NO conviction.”

    Not having a conviction doesn’t mean he’s innocent. lol

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  75. David Garrett (7,292 comments) says:

    Mikey: You have it right…this has zero direct effect on the government because by the time he is either discharged without conviction – or convicted and perhaps sentenced – Parliament will have risen. Obviously between now and 1 August the lefties will make a massive meal of it, and try and make Key look bad…even though as you yourself have noted, the events Banks has been found guilty of pre-date his becoming an ACT MP

    As for a discharge without conviction, the test is whether a conviction would have effects far outweighing the seriousness of the wrongdoing. In my own case, it was granted mostly because I had never used the passport for any purpose (the Judge specifically referred to that), but also because the wrongdoing had been almost 30 years before.

    I am not a criminal lawyer, but in Banks’ case I would imagine his lawyers will argue that given his many years of public service and hitherto blameless life, the stain of a conviction is unwarranted in all the circumstances. The decision on that is for the Judge alone. If one was a betting man I would hazard that the result may well be “convicted and discharged” meaning that the conviction itself is regarded as sufficient penalty.

    Its a pity Graeme Edgeler is not here to comment – he is both a criminal lawyer and an expert on electoral law. He I suspect has been muzzled as part of his retainer from the fat kraut.

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  76. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Better a fat kraut than a hook nosed kike!

    [DPF: 30 demerits]

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  77. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I note that the judge has called for a report on suitability for home detention, so a custodial sentence is by no means out of the question.

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  78. David Garrett (7,292 comments) says:

    Jack: what a brave boy you are, making racial slurs behind a nice safe pseud….(I regard “fat kraut” as a simple matter of description…although I might be on dodgy ground with the “kraut” bit…) mea culpa…I shall henceforth refer to the former Kim Shmitz as “the fat German”

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  79. JMS (330 comments) says:

    Its a pity Graeme Edgeler is not here to comment – he is both a criminal lawyer and an expert on electoral law. He I suspect has been muzzled as part of his retainer from the fat kraut.

    Yes, while working for the Internet Party he is to stay away from internet discussions.

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  80. Pete George (23,577 comments) says:

    A PDF of Reasons for Verdict:
    http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/1406/Banks_reasons_for_Verdict_20140605.pdf

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  81. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “(I regard “fat kraut” as a simple matter of description…although I might be on dodgy ground with the “kraut” bit…) mea culpa…I shall henceforth refer to the former Kim Shmitz as “the fat German””

    And I will refer to John Key as “the hook nosed half breed.”

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  82. Ed Snack (1,873 comments) says:

    Oddly enough, and I’m generally an ACT supporter, Banks deserved this. I don’t think it is terribly corrupt as after all his bid failed, but there’s little doubt Banks knew the origin of the donation and tried to pretend it was anonymous. Play to the letter properly and make sure you don’t know so there can be as little chance as possible of corrupt influence.

    That said, I think it is an injustice that only Banks has been pinged for this. As noted above there are many other politicians who play the same game, just a bit smarter legally. I don’t believe that Cunliffe didn’t know who donated to his trust, Peters certainly did, and Len Brown almost certainly has a good deal of knowledge who donated to his “anonymous” trust. They’re all the same and should all be prosecuted, sadly can’t do that if they observe the forms.

    But perhaps we can get back to a real ACT party without recycled old National MPs.

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  83. Reboot (101 comments) says:

    The comments here on Kiwiblog are a fucking embarrassment and a sign of what Act has become. What happened to the days when Act stood on principle. Awatere Huata was shown no mercy for tarnishing the brand, and rightly so. Since when was Act about defending the criminals. I say to anyone who is still an Act member and believes in its founding value of one law for all, stop making excuses for Banks otherwise you’re no better than the Left where it’s one law for others but another for their own.

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  84. eszett (2,410 comments) says:

    On a micro level MMP in Germany is an absolute shambles. It’s not much better here.

    What utter nonsense. MMP is very well understood and established in Germany and given the federal system it is even more complicated.
    But no one would dream of changing it.

    The only recent ideas floated there were lowering the threshold and changing the overhang rules.

    It isn’t a shambles there nor here.

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  85. Pete George (23,577 comments) says:

    It’s not MMP that’s a shambles, it’s the quality of the parties that are participating in and trying to manipulate MMP to their advantage that’s questionable.

    Any political system can be dicked around with if you have dicks involved. Especially power-hungry at any price dicks.

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  86. ross411 (842 comments) says:

    Igotta Numbum (404 comments) says:
    June 5th, 2014 at 2:30 pm
    Will every other MP now be shitting bricks? Because let’s face it, they’ve been doing it this way for years.

    Oh, name one where you can back this up in any substantiated way?

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  87. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    Let’s be honest, it’s very likely Banks knows quite a lot about the larger donations as he would be involved with many. To be fair, this is likely the same for many politicians or parties. They’ve relied on what is effectively a technical defense whereby they only refer to the final declarations and ensure some presentation of arms length handling.

    He certainly was going against the intent of the law.

    The judge was correct in what is a matter of law and Banks is gone-burger. I reckon that it’s the split in to two cheques that did it for the judge as it’s hard to justify that without involvement from Banks

    A couple of other politicians have swung close to the wind and gotten away with it. He didn’t. Hopefully, this will lead to more transparency but I suspect it will just lead to tighter processes to protect politicians from avoiding the intent of donation related laws.

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  88. goldnkiwi (1,308 comments) says:

    Is this the first case of its kind? I just started reading the judgment and it seems that ‘wilful blindness’ seems to be the determining feature.

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  89. altiora (279 comments) says:

    @goldnkiwi wilful blindness aka Nelsonian blindness is suffice. I don’t give a stuff about “Banksie”. I do hope that this marks a change to how parties handle donations. If it doesn’t, then Labour and the Greens will win the debate over state funding of political parties. Donations should be only from (1) NZ citizens and (2) natural persons, not corporations (ie, those who can vote, and therefore have a legitimate reason for donating).

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  90. nasska (11,534 comments) says:

    The life & times of a suit full of arrogance & smarm. Let’s just hope that he doesn’t take ACT down the shitter with him.

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  91. Ross12 (1,428 comments) says:

    This misdemeanour by Banks is about at the same level as Cunliffe’s tweet in the Christchurch by-election. With his success in this will McCready go after Cunliffe? I doubt it.

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  92. Scott1 (552 comments) says:

    Two points

    A) Regarding the prosecution – A conspiracy not to prosecute is actually the BEST thing that could be going on. The alternative would seem to be that the police are either incompetent or are just systematically unwilling to take cases against people with influence or on this kind of case – those are much broader and more damaging that just straight conspiracy.

    B) I think it was a good decision by the judge to withhold conviction on two basis

    1) because he needs to give John Banks as much chance as possible to appeal without causing irrevocable harm.
    2) because courts regularly take into account these sorts of things (for example a person might get name suppression to protect their family or whatever). and bringing down the government is all things being equal something the judiciary should be reluctant to do even more so than a lot of the other factors that they regularly consider.

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  93. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    You can take the boy out of the back street abortion clinic but you can’t take the ………… out of the boy.

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  94. ross411 (842 comments) says:

    RRM (9,162 comments) says:
    June 5th, 2014 at 2:39 pm
    Well done Penny, you were right about something for once.

    It’s sad to see it confirmed that we have to rely on private prosecutions by disaffected people with chips on their shoulders ordinary citizens to uphold the electoral law, because the NZ Police are either uninterested in, or incapable of, doing so.

    I think the taxpayer’s union is doing great work. I’d join a voter’s union that did these prosecutions, as long as they did them for all parties and not in a CTU partial owner of the Labour party owned “non-partisan” Get Out And Vote really just for Labour kind of way.

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  95. Scott1 (552 comments) says:

    Ross,
    he did go after him didn’t he?
    Still there is a difference in degree of intent here so I seriously doubt he would get anywhere at all in court on the tweet.

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  96. JMS (330 comments) says:

    What utter nonsense. MMP is very well understood and established in Germany and given the federal system it is even more complicated.
    But no one would dream of changing it.

    The only recent ideas floated there were lowering the threshold and changing the overhang rules.

    It isn’t a shambles there nor here.

    The electoral systems used by Germany and its constituent states during the Weimar period were far more consistent and logical than MMP. There were no problems with Negative-vote-weight, that until recently the Federal Constitutional Court didn’t even consider to be a problem, probably because they didn’t understand it. It has now been partially rectified, but only partially. The politicians of the Weimar period got a lot wrong, but at least they knew how to construct logical electoral systems.

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  97. Dave Mann (1,222 comments) says:

    I don’t particularly care about John Banks per se…. but I think any polititian who is prepared to take money from a f*****g CASINO should be hounded out of publc office as a matter of principle. The only purpose of a casino is to fleece money from gullible people as a front for money laundering, prostitution, drugs and God knows what other mafioso crap. Good riddance to the man, and I wish this McCready guy could have gone after every asshole who takes bribes from international crime syndicates…. . and please don’t get me started on this fat Kraut who is making a mockery of our country.

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  98. Ross12 (1,428 comments) says:

    Istricky — “You’re kidding right? “Err on the side of transparency”? Err….Everybody knows to read the small print of everything they sign their names to. Are you infering that it “wasn’t his fault” because he didn’t know that?

    Seesh.”

    The only thing that Banks did differently to Len Brown was he did not funnel the donations through a trust. So if as a number are saying that Banks was corrupt because of the “big” donations then you have label Brown as corrupt. I cannot see how you have it both ways.
    This issue with Banks falls into what lawyers refer to as a “technicality” in my view.

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  99. Reboot (101 comments) says:

    Ross12 (1,034 comments) says:
    June 5th, 2014 at 6:10 pm

    The only thing that Banks did differently to Len Brown was he did not funnel the donations through a trust. So if as a number are saying that Banks was corrupt because of the “big” donations then you have label Brown as corrupt. I cannot see how you have it both ways.
    This issue with Banks falls into what lawyers refer to as a “technicality” in my view.

    No Ross12, the issue with Banks and and his supporters such as yourself fall into is what ACT refers to as “not taking personal responsibility” and pointing the finger at others whilst whining “but it’s not fair, he did it too.”

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  100. dad4justice (8,224 comments) says:

    Banks is found guilty but not convicted and all this was brought about by a private prosecution.FFS! Anybody that thinks there is no us and them mentality from a corrupt justice/political system is insane. Banks will get a slap on the hand and move on peasant, nothing changes, the politicians keep peddling the bullshit and the police are still trying to find a brain cell. Maybe Banks has what Crusher has, that is, ex Minister of Police blues?

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  101. william blake (109 comments) says:

    Odd mood of defensiveness on behalf of the ex member for Wongaray on this site. It seems to be a day of shame for the whole country not a left / right issue. When was the last time an MP took a criminal conviction? The wallopers look bent too.

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  102. dad4justice (8,224 comments) says:

    “The wallopers look bent too.”

    Our cops have always been corrupt, ask anybody with a brain.

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  103. Warren Murray (311 comments) says:

    I hope Banks is NOT discharged without conviction. That would send the wrong signal. A very high price is demanded to uphold our democratic systems and electoral returns are part of that.

    John Banks has shown appalling judgement, including but not limited to seeking KDC’s patronage, hiding the donations from KDC and Sky City, and worst of all, returning to politics as the member for Epsom.

    He deserves everything coming his way for his actions (or for those who are still in denial, his inattention). I feel sorry for others who may be collateral damage from this debacle but have no sympathy for Banks. In fact, Im as mad as hell for what he has done because it was so unnecessary. Being as wealthy as he is, Banks didn’t need KDC’s money. I expect Banks will have wished more than once he had just spent his own money, or at least not tried to conceal the donations that have brought him down.

    He wont go to jail, but he should. Mad. As. Hell.

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  104. David Garrett (7,292 comments) says:

    Warren: Which political party HASN’T sought the fat German’s patronage? Only the Nats I would wager…

    If Banks’ failing had occurred as part of a parliamentary election I may well agree with you…but it is surely relevant that it was in connection with his mayoral campaign several years earlier?

    I dunno..you may also think I had to go because of something I had done 27 years earlier…you sound like that kind of zealot…

    William Blake: the last MP who took a criminal conviction would have been Philip Field…the first MP in NZ’s history to be convicted of corruption…

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  105. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I think someone above noted that Field had the book thrown at him, so perhaps a prison spell for Banks is not out of the question.

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  106. Sidey (250 comments) says:

    dad4justicesays:
    Our cops have always been corrupt, ask anybody with a brain

    Always? I have a brain. I’d like some proof please that the police have always been corrupt. I’m willing to accept court judgments covering say one a day for the last 150 years. We can ignore the rest in the interests of keeping it to to what you can pull out of your rectum at short notice.

    I bet when you really need the police, you’ll be shrieking like a banshee.

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  107. goldnkiwi (1,308 comments) says:

    As an aside, since deposit forms were given, what was the need for cheques in this day and age. Surely ‘internet banking’ would have sufficed. ;)

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  108. Grant (444 comments) says:

    You’re a very bold little man Jackina box.
    How about you pop over to that bastion of liberal values known as the standard, and for arguments sake, refer to Willie Jackson or Metiria Turei as hook nosed half breeds.
    I dare you to, or perhaps you realise that real tolerance is not a lefty virtue.
    G

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  109. David Garrett (7,292 comments) says:

    Milky: Nothing is out of the question…but I think even you’d have to agree that Field’s culpability was somewhat greater…employing vulnerable immigrants on peanuts and promising to obtain them residence…taking money for what he claimed he was going to do for them…not very noble behaviour…

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  110. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    dad4justice is right about the porky bastards being corrupt Sidey, anybody with a brain knows that. http://bcops.wordpress.com/

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  111. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I tend to think a stiff fine will be imposed, David. But there are strong public policy reasons for taking a tough line on this sort of offending.

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  112. David Garrett (7,292 comments) says:

    Milky: My bet – and I am not a criminal lawyer – is either a discharge, or a “convicted and discharged”…either the way the man’s political career is over, and as the doddery John Armstrong said today he will take this very very hard after all his years of trying to atone for his parents’ sins…

    Madbilly: As does anyone who has pleaded not guilty and mounted a spirited – and no doubt hugely expensive – defence…there are no guilty men in prison, didn’t you know that?

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  113. madbilly (31 comments) says:

    And yet, he continues to smile and deny his guilt.

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  114. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    “Banks faces a jail sentence of up to two years or a $10,000 fine.”

    What would be the impact of leaving parliament on 1 August on MP pay?

    Is it losing 2 two months pay? That would be over $20,000. Thus a conviction would of itself result in a $20,000 plus saving to the taxpayer in loss of MP’s pay.

    The offence is similar to that of director of a finance company sending out a false prospectus, and related consideration of whether this was either knowing and or a neglect of duty.

    The judge calling for a report on the option of home detention as an alternative for prison is just form where a prison sentence is within the orbit of the offence. More likely is community service, as the loss of MP’s pay substitutes for a fine in this instance.

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  115. madbilly (31 comments) says:

    My point is David, that if he maintains that position he cannot be given any credit for remorse at sentencing.

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  116. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    DG and mikenmild, I think it will be “effectively” convicted and discharged, but the addition of community service rather than a fine for the reason in the above post. His lack of contrition will sort of guarantee that community service is now likely.

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  117. David Garrett (7,292 comments) says:

    madbilly: quite right…I had overlooked that aspect…although again, how many who suddenly become deeply remorseful upon conviction do you think genuinely are?

    SPC: On 1 August when he returns to Court parliament will have risen.. despite what the ignorant think, MP’s pay ends abruptly on that day

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  118. big bruv (13,906 comments) says:

    Given that D4J is well known to the police I am not surprised that he has decided to be an internet tough guy and take a crack.

    Oh and Jackinabox, if you are going to be a troll then you need to do way better than that. So far you have only proven that you are the loser and if tonight is anything to go by you will always be a loser struggling on minimum wage.

    You really should have worked harder at school.

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  119. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    DG, so MP’s don’t work for pay unless parliament is sitting – that’s a lot of pay for the number of days Parliament sits.

    Then by delaying sentencing to the last day parliament sits the judge has decided to enable his collection of tens of thousands of MP’s pay before considering a maximum fine of $10,000 in the sentencing?

    How strange. Or is this a way of preventing any appeal?

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  120. dad4justice (8,224 comments) says:

    The big blouse obsession just keeps on keeping on. I wish it would get treatment for the disorder. Yawn, yawn…………..

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  121. mike tan (485 comments) says:

    It’s a shame that our libertarian party is plagued with scandal.

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  122. altiora (279 comments) says:

    @ Reboot, I agree. But sadly MMP has lead to this stupid tribalist mentality.

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  123. goldnkiwi (1,308 comments) says:

    Interesting the Judges reasoning and the evidence and supposition it was based on. I could see where wilful blindness could be considered strictly and objectively. I do wonder however whether it all might have been deemed more important if he had won the mayoralty or whether the comment re a waste of a million dollars characterised the attitude to the returns. End of the day the buck stops with the candidate and there is no provision for anyone else that completed the return to be responsible for any inaccuracies.

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  124. Ross12 (1,428 comments) says:

    Reboot — all I’m saying is that if Banks put the donations through a trust like Brown there have been no court case and no further discussion. Do I think the use of trusts is right? No, but it appears to be legal.

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  125. big bruv (13,906 comments) says:

    D4J

    Don’t flatter yourself, you are not worthy of an obsession. I will however always point out why you keep having a crack at the cops. You simply cannot deny that you are well known to our Police, from your behaviour on this site and your obvious inability to control your temper I am sure that they have had to put up with plenty of your bullshit over the years.

    I will always support our cops, when they have to deal with scum every day of the week I believe in cutting them as much slack as is required.

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  126. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Say what you like big bruv, nothing will kill my buzz tonight.

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  127. mike tan (485 comments) says:

    D4J v big bruv is definitely one of the enduring rivalries of kiwiblog

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  128. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “I will always support our cops, when they have to deal with scum every day of the week I believe in cutting them as much slack as is required.”

    Noble cause corruption is ok in your book aye big bruv?

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  129. David Garrett (7,292 comments) says:

    SPC: I am not sure I follow you…but I would wager that if he is convicted – regardless of the sentence – Mr Banks will appeal…as I have said, the conviction alone will weigh very heavily on him…

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  130. OneTrack (3,109 comments) says:

    ross12 – “Do I think the use of trusts is right? No, but it appears to be legal.”

    It now also appears to be what absolutely must be done.

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  131. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Your very brave commenting here mike tan when Judith isn’t here to keep an eye on you may I say! :)

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  132. big bruv (13,906 comments) says:

    jack

    “Noble cause corruption is ok in your book aye big bruv?”

    No, I leave that to the left, one of your lot, Chris Trotter famously said that when the left break the law (which is often) it is fine because it is all in the cause of the left.

    What I am saying is that given our cops have to deal with low life (Labour voters and lefties in general) I am always prepared to cut them a lot slack, even more slack if the scum the cops are dealing with are protesters or union low life on strike.

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  133. mike tan (485 comments) says:

    From the stranded:

    “In China, Iran and Vietnam to name a few countries at least they actually do something about the rich pricks looting them blind.”

    Should we pool some coin to pay for an airfare for this chap?

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  134. mike tan (485 comments) says:

    Bruv:

    “What I am saying is that given our cops have to deal with low life (Labour voters and lefties in general) I am always prepared to cut them a lot slack, even more slack if the scum the cops are dealing with are protesters or union low life on strike.”

    You have a lot of faith in government :)

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  135. big bruv (13,906 comments) says:

    mike tan

    I never have faith in a Labour or left wing government. By and large I have faith in the Nat’s when they are leading the country.

    Why do I say that?, well time and time again we had to sit back and watch the corrupt Helen Clark government lean on our police to obtain the result that she wanted.

    I have a hell of a lot of faith in our Police and I remain deeply suspicious of those who don’t, I don’t break the law and as such I have no problem to fear or doubt our Police.

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  136. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    TVNZ news is showing its leftist bias in the Banks case.

    First it repeats and repeats and repeats the clip of a scumbag throwing trash over Banks on his way to court – just as it did when it had a clip of a scumbag throwing trash over Don Brash.

    Then tonight a cynical TVNZ reporter talked of the “apple falling not far from the tree” referring to Branks’ parents, who did spend time inside jail. John Banks is a good guy, who showed his character when one of his three adopted Russian children was involved in the party after which a teenage boy died. As I recall it, John Banks was one of the few parents, perhaps the only one, who fronted up to the bereaved parents. He wasn’t at fault, but behaved with decency and dignity.

    Remember when Banks and his wife went to adopt a Russian orphan, they saw two sad kids waving goodbye at a window, and without hesitation adopted the orphan’s two siblings as well?

    John Banks overcame an appalling start in life, but stumbled seriously only late in life – after associating with Herr DotCom. Time may show he’s not the only one who will regret links with Herr Dotcom.

    The worst tonight was a TVNZ news hack waving John Banks’ biography and spouting about the apple falling not far from the tree. TVNZ doesn’t hammer even murderers and rapists so heavily as this.

    Mike Hosking on Seven Sharp seemed to try to make some amends later with favourable comments on Banks’s character.

    Good on Hosking for that, but stuff the TVNZ news reporters.

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  137. mike tan (485 comments) says:

    So i have some comforting news for any Banks supporters in here. Our old friend philu went to court and claims to have overheard a “prominent right winger” get confirmation from “a guy in robes” that Banks won’t be going to prison. You can all breathe a sigh of relief.

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  138. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “What I am saying is that given our cops have to deal with low life (Labour voters and lefties in general) I am always prepared to cut them a lot slack, even more slack if the scum the cops are dealing with are protesters or union low life on strike.”

    That’s crazy talk big bruv. Take your meds.

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  139. mike tan (485 comments) says:

    Bruv:

    You allege that Clark utilized the police for her own ends yet make a statement alluding to blind faith in the police, do you not see a contradiction here?

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  140. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Then tonight a cynical TVNZ reporter talked of the “apple falling not far from the tree” referring to Branks’ parents, who did spend time inside jail.”

    The reporter was quoting a lowlife cop Jack5.

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  141. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Jackinabox: you pop up regularly to vent your bile about the police.

    When are you going to tell us your story of what they did to you that has made you so bitter towards them?

    As for your 8.09 post:

    The reporter was quoting a lowlife cop…

    The hack picked the quote that would do the damage, jackinabox.

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  142. mike tan (485 comments) says:

    “Then tonight a cynical TVNZ reporter talked of the “apple falling not far from the tree” referring to Branks’ parents, who did spend time inside jail.”

    Wow thats scummy, which reporter was that?

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  143. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Mike: I don’t know the reporter’s name. He was in America for them for some time.

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  144. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “The hack picked the quote that would do the damage, jackinabox.”

    But that doesn’t alter the fact that a cop said that to a juvenile John Banks as his colleagues carted Mr and Mrs Banks off to jail.

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  145. big bruv (13,906 comments) says:

    mike tan

    I allege no such thing. You really need to go back and read what you wrote. You asked me if I had faith in government, I replied to that question.

    Now, had you asked me if I have blind faith in our Police I would have replied as follows.

    By and large yes, other than being a victim of a crime committed by some low life benefit bludger (actually they would never get past the dogs to be fair) I expect to have no dealings with the Police.
    However, if I was in possession of some information that might embarrass a left wing government then I just know that our Police would come under enormous political pressure from that same corrupt left wing government to lose or supress that information. Does that make the Police corrupt ?, well no, however it just proves that the left are by their very nature corrupt and willing to do anything to hold into power.

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  146. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Yes, jackinabox (8.15 post), it was a rotten thing to say to a kid.

    It was at least as rotten for the TVNZ reporter to drag it up at a time like this for the John Banks family.

    Jackinabox, tell us your story – you have the floor, you have the audience.

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  147. mike tan (485 comments) says:

    Bruv:

    The point i was making was that the police are part of the government.

    If the police would fold to political pressure that amounts to suppressing evidence of a crime, then that would meet the definition of corruption.

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  148. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Click the link @ 6.50 Jack5

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  149. big bruv (13,906 comments) says:

    mike tan

    If that was your question then perhaps you should have asked it.

    It is crystal clear that the police did fold under political pressure when Clark was PM, however if there is any corruption then that is on the part of the Labour party not the Police.

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  150. dad4justice (8,224 comments) says:

    “It is crystal clear that the police did fold under political pressure”

    That’s corruption. Increase your medication, you write complete nonsense.

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  151. altiora (279 comments) says:

    @jacknbox do you ever ask whether your contributions actually assist raising the level of discourse in our democracy? Up there with John Key the Nazi posters. Infantile,

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  152. big bruv (13,906 comments) says:

    D4J

    It’s nice to see you talking about something other than gay sex for a change. Well done.

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  153. big bruv (13,906 comments) says:

    jackinabox

    Come on man, you have been offered the floor to tell your story. I am sure there are plenty here who want to hear it.

    Tell us about yourself, are you a union man?, unemployed?, on the sickness benefit?

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  154. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    I’ll just get some popcorn and a glass of hot toddy and snuggle into my duvet before you start jackinabox! :)

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  155. dad4justice (8,224 comments) says:

    jackinabox – ignore big blouse, the thing is a immature/cowardly smear.
    You are so right about the cops.

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  156. mike tan (485 comments) says:

    I think it is naive to assume that the NZ Police are corrupt; if you compare them to the rest of the world, you will find that they are one of the least corrupt and most respected. However, i think it is unwise to have the kind of faith that big bruv seemingly has, you need a healthy level of skepticism to ensure that the force is held accountable. It is this type of attitude (of skepticism) that has developed our force into the respected entity it is today, and it is this type of attitude that will help it maintain its integrity.

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  157. Radman (143 comments) says:

    deadrightkev says:
    Act has always been hopelessly organised and administered unprofessionally. I feel sorry for Banks.

    Ha ha. Act now turning on itself!! Who was that idiot who called Key a Jew when standing as a candidate for Act?

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  158. Pete George (23,577 comments) says:

    John Banks after he left court today: “There’s a wonderful 1930′s song “Onto every life some rain must fall”. And for me the rain’s still falling.”

    http://yournz.org/2014/06/05/into-each-life-some-rain-must-fall/“>Into Each Life Some Rain Must Fall

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  159. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “I think it is naive to assume that the NZ Police are corrupt; if you compare them to the rest of the world, you will find that they are one of the least corrupt and most respected”

    Spoken like a true ignoramus.

    http://bcops.wordpress.com/

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  160. Warren Murray (311 comments) says:

    DG, I don’t think Im a zealot and Ive not commented before on the events that terminated your political career.

    Banks’ emphatic and repeated denials about seeking the money from KDC or Sky City or asking for the KDC donation to be given the way it was or the helicopter ride, etc are so hollow they could be barefaced lies. I’m saddened that he, unlike you, can’t at least admit he did wrong.

    Im now saddened that you seem to think our local government democracy rules, accountability and transparency rules don’t matter. corruption doesn’t happen overnight, it starts with misdemeanours.

    We all have our faults and Im not wanting to demonise Banks. He might be a very nice bloke but his arrogance led him to this and we shouldn’t trivialise what he has done or discount it because others have also misrepresented in some way that really isnt remotely similar.

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  161. blondewithaniq (24 comments) says:

    mike tan (277 comments) says:

    June 5th, 2014 at 8:05 pm
    So i have some comforting news for any Banks supporters in here. Our old friend philu went to court and claims to have overheard a “prominent right winger” get confirmation from “a guy in robes” that Banks won’t be going to prison. You can all breathe a sigh of relief.

    How interesting Mr Tan? My pick is home detention. To discharge without conviction someone who has not only shown no remorse but is openly still in denial despite the findings of the Judge shows just how hypocritical some Act party members are. Mr Banks also seems to dispaly a continuing pathological disregard for the law as in believing ‘we’ or is that actually just “he’ above it.

    Having survived a ‘hard childhood’ doesnt seem to hold much water for those who are also ‘colourful’ (sic) but with far less wealthy and powerfully connected networks when they appear before the judiciary here.
    A reminder.. Operating a Cellphone on plane contrary to aviation regulations..Operating a Jetski with out due care for others or showing personal responsibility? and now electoral fraud?
    I can count to 3.. One assumes most of you can too?
    One law for all please..
    To discharge such a recidivist rule breaker just wouldn’t be ‘cricket’ would it?
    Oh wait a minute..
    Just as well the Hulich allegations didnt have legs too though isn’t it?

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  162. itstricky (1,836 comments) says:

    The only thing that Banks did differently to Len Brown was he did not funnel the donations through a trust. So if as a number are saying that Banks was corrupt because of the “big” donations then you have label Brown as corrupt. I cannot see how you have it both ways.

    I’ll repeat – my initial statement was not a tit-for-tat. Len Brown can have X,Y, and Z thrown at him, for all I care.

    My statement was that DPF has taken it easy on Mssr. Banks. “Not his fault” seems to be the summation of this post. Pull the other one…

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  163. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “The only thing that Banks did differently to Len Brown was he did not funnel the donations through a trust.”

    Not taking basic precautions is a sure sign that someone believes he’s untouchable.

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  164. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    Feel a bit sorry for Banks but it’s kind of ironic that the party that promotes tougher penalties for criminals has produced such a high proportion of criminals from within its own ranks in comparison with other political parties – apart from Christian Heritage of course.

    Perhaps a case of the gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

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  165. Mark (1,488 comments) says:

    Banks has little option but to resign now. Waiting until the conviction is handed down at sentencing in August is just lacks any credibility

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  166. goldnkiwi (1,308 comments) says:

    Why? It is the law that has convicted him and the law that prescribes the next steps. Sure, National would prefer not to have the distraction I imagine but then in some ways by the time the opposition focus on it because they have no policy, it could have an upside. I would think the opposition would welcome any distraction instead of taking care of business lol.

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  167. blondewithaniq (24 comments) says:

    goldnkiwi ‘It is the law that has convicted him and the law that prescribes the next steps. Sure, National would prefer not to have the distraction I imagine but then in some ways by the time the opposition focus on it because they have no policy, it could have an upside.’
    Contrarily in my opinion The incumbent Cash for Access party along with the poorly done by (hard Act to fathom, but only hard on criminals as long as they aren’t their own?) Minority party according to Mr Whyte, should keep Mr. Banks in the public eye for as long as possible.
    Right up to the sentencing day will be perfect.
    He will serve as a daily reminder of just what was forced upon NZ in 2008 & 2011, just how dirty it was then and actually still is.
    I’m sure some will hope Paul Henry and other farcical mainstream media rightwing mouthpieces continue parading all his friends in front of us too, as was done last night.
    Especially the friends who profess to be good judges of character and are still very clearly current ‘connects’ between the two parties.

    Was musing today that I cannot think of another 5 Eyes country other than Canada perhaps? that could show the voting public and even those who have never voted yet quite as blatantly and clearly just what a Western *Pathocracy masquerading as a democracy in 2014 actually looks like at both local and central government level and actually both blue and red..
    http://pathocracy.wordpress.com/definition/

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  168. deadrightkev (469 comments) says:

    What on earth is going on inside Richard Prebbles head these days? He says that the Banks fiasco has caused a major distraction for the party and if it continues it could damage the brand? He then suggests that Banks should say on in Epsom until the election. Hello?

    Newsflash Richard – the brand is toxic already.

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  169. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “The police statement clearly said that there was insufficient evidence against John Banks and that he has complied with the law” ………..“I accept John Banks at his word, no charges have been laid, he’s not going to be found guilty, he hasn’t broken the law.”

    Banks, Key and the cops are all toxic.

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