Boys will just be boys and stab each other at school

June 26th, 2014 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

It was naive to suggest there wasn’t a problem in an area where two school-related stabbings occurred yesterday, a child psychologist has said, following a comment from the electorate’s MP that “boys will be boys”.

Mangere MP Su’a William Sio down-played any problem in the area when he appeared on TVNZ’s Breakfast show this morning, saying “boys will be boys”.

“I think it frightens anybody when you hear of young children in a situation where allegedly there is a weapon being used, but that’s symptomatic of a community that has a high proportion of young people in it.

“Whenever you’ve got young people, you’re going to get this kind of situation from time to time, although most of us do not accept that the allegations of weapons would be part of a schoolboy fight.”

“I would just say to those boys; ‘grow up’,” Mr Sio said.

Boys will just be boys. My God. The bigotry of soft expectations again. The issue isn’t that the boys need to grow up. It’s that they have access to weapons, and have a moral compass that thinks it is acceptable to threaten and use weapons and stab people.

Stuff further reports:

Labour MP Su’a William Sio admits he could have chosen his words more carefully when he said “boys are gonna be boys,” but insists he wasn’t trying to downplay a two schoolyard stabbings in South Auckland. He also has a warning for outsiders – “don’t judge us”.

I don’t judge the community, but I do judge the MP who downplays the seriousness of it.

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65 Responses to “Boys will just be boys and stab each other at school”

  1. Graeme Edgeler (3,276 comments) says:

    The issue isn’t that the boys need to grow up. It’s that they have access to weapons…

    Your proposed ban on scissors in schools is rejected.

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  2. ciaron (1,387 comments) says:

    …in an area where two school-related stabbings occurred yesterday….

    Wait, what?! 2 incidents?

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  3. YesWeDid (1,041 comments) says:

    I guess actually waiting until we know the facts about each of these incidents is a bit much to ask, especially when there are some pathetic political points to score.

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  4. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Bet they are the result of breed for income policies consecutive governments promote. Wait till Labour come out with even more bribes to the feral breeders’ club.

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  5. Nigel Kearney (915 comments) says:

    I’m sure he genuinely misspoke or was misquoted and doesn’t think “boys being boys” includes stabbing people. There is more of a issue with the “don’t judge us” remark, after we have had Russell Brown’s handsome face on TV telling us it is all our problem. It’s not our problem. It is the problem of the violent thugs themselves and their parents, but they should expect we will judge them when things like this happen. We should be more judgmental not less. Especially when we are funding their lifestyle.

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  6. Tarquin North (207 comments) says:

    The standard Labour approach. Get half the information, see opportunity for political gain, get over excited, load gun, point at foot and start shooting. This guy must have an iq similar to room temperature.

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  7. mikemikemikemike (319 comments) says:

    There are reports this morning that this kid was bullied constantly…. and maybe was defending himself. The MP is not down playing the seriousness of it, but suggesting that this is not the result of these kids being poor or brown. I suggest you DPF need to open your eyes if you don’t think that this kind of thing happens everywhere and has not been happening for a very long time.

    In fact it wasn’t that long ago that teachers were allowed to use weapons to mete out physical violence towards children to get them to do as they were told (I had a woodwork teacher who used to fire chisels across the room while calling us fatherless bastards)…..what makes this case any different other than the assailants age?

    Also, trying to turn this into a political issue is as disgusting as any of the left attempts to associate a death of someone to the government you so blindly defend.

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  8. Manolo (13,516 comments) says:

    Mr Sio needs to wake up. Maybe a piece of taro up the proverbial is needed.

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  9. RightNow (6,839 comments) says:

    There’s a lot more than just him saying “Boys will be boys”. Watching the full clip gives a different view than that soundbite.
    It seems also the boy who did the stabbing had suffered bullying for months prior to the incident and finally snapped.

    Resist the temptation to rush to judgement.

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  10. hj (6,714 comments) says:

    I heard some discussion about the Glen Inquiry. Guyon Espinier mentioned a ” in Pacific communities”, “colonisation” culture of violence (being blamed). The first meme will be squelched by official PC.

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  11. Fentex (909 comments) says:

    I have twice in my life literally seen red in rage. Both times as a youth at school. In those instances I didn’t seek out a weapon to use against anyone but if I’d been carrying one at the time I’d likely have resorted to it.

    I suspect the anger and conflict wasn’t anything unusual for children, but the idea of carrying a weapon in expectation of conflict was something that was once unusual but I suspect was the cause of these incidents.

    It reminds me of once being surprised that several women at a party I was attending (some fifteen odd years ago) were carrying spyderco knives among their fashionable party frocks. A bit of a wakeup for me that women may feel a need to take preparations in their defence I don’t.

    I wouldn’t like to think that a school boy had good reason to carry a knife.

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  12. RightNow (6,839 comments) says:

    Fentex, I understood the boy used school scissors. Have you seen reports to suggest he actually was carrying a knife?

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  13. kowtow (7,925 comments) says:

    I heard a guest on Jim Mora’s the other day suggesting that “insults” are taken far more seriously by pacific people than we “pakeha” do………

    ……the implication being almost that ,well it is OK for Pacific types to use extreme violence ( but not whiteys of course).

    The course of the conversation was interesting though ,it seems our luvvies aren’t prepared to outright condemn this appalling conduct ,(when a ‘visable minority” is involved.

    Personally I’m of the view that it’s a case of monkey see monkey do. ie reflecting a violent home life.

    I suppose that’s “progress”.Progressive society and progressive culture and policies have brought us here. Enjoy the future.

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  14. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    Violence in our society is a longstanding problem that needs to be addressed better.

    Kneejerk reactions – often led by the media and with few or no details of actual incidents and associated issues – are not a good way to address things. There are rarely quick fix solutions, especially at the first interview stage.

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  15. Jack5 (4,843 comments) says:

    If we were more assimilation focused and less multicultural, it might help the adjustment of those who come from, or whose parents come from, places where attitudes to violence may vary from those traditional in NZ.

    My reservation is that the Greens and Lefties might grab the assimilation indoctrination and turn out passive zombies.

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  16. kowtow (7,925 comments) says:

    ciaron

    Here’s the second one.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Southern-Cross-Campus-student-stabbed-in-neck/tabid/423/articleID/350007/Default.aspx

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  17. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “……Boys will be boys…..It’s that they have access to weapons, and have a moral compass that thinks it is acceptable to threaten and use weapons and stab people……don’t judge us…”

    I would have thought that boys had pocket knifes when DPF was a Scout leader. But then those kids were probably mainly anglo saxons.

    So I’d think it’s not our fault – and the only men who can be ‘judged’ in this matter is the men of that community. As there are next to no male school teachers either in society to influence these boys either way. They don’t idolise white people either.

    So much for diversty. Diversity of scouts would’ve been a better thing to do, but we can’t install ‘our values’ on them could we?

    And to think that scouts also catered to ‘at risk’ children and taught them practical things so as to be community minded – and occupy their time.

    {I’m not having a go at you David or Scouts as I think your service to the community was very good.]

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  18. lastmanstanding (1,240 comments) says:

    Fact is West Auckland and South Auckland are populated by evil bad low lifes who breed like the proverbial. They are the pond life of humanity.

    And to the morons who bang on how its all societies fault blah blah blah will Ive got the solution for them.

    A well armed group of Concerned Citizens to take out these pond life. There that will fix the problem……. permanently.

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  19. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    places where attitudes to violence may vary from those traditional in NZ.

    Attitudes to violence in ‘traditional NZ’ have been awful. It has long been an accepted and promoted way of dealing with problems.

    It would be easy for immigrants to get the idea that resolution by violence is approved of here whether the ‘assimilate’ or remain ‘multicultural’.

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  20. kowtow (7,925 comments) says:

    Pete George blames “traditional New Zealand” for immigrants’ having the idea that resolution through violence is OK?

    See? It’s whiteys’ fault!

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  21. David Garrett (6,731 comments) says:

    I am going to surprise some by also saying “let’s get the full facts”… If what has been reported – that a kid who had suffered bullying for some time snapped, and picked up some scissors – is correct, then that’s a very different scenario from taking a knife to school and using it.

    As for the differing attitudes to violence among Maori and PI communities, sorry leftie luvvies…that is a simple FACT, and anyone who has lived in the Islands will tell you so. It’s even more sinister in Tonga (the place I am most familiar with) where the first sign of a vicious attack might be a big beaming smile on the face of the attacker.

    In my own (Tongan) extended family, physical violence – and I don’t mean a light smack – is the normal disciplinary method of first resort.

    In Samoa, I remember being speechless with shock when a meaty Samoan woman punched her child of about eight in the jaw and knocked him out…I was fussing around him trying to work out how badly he had been hurt…she just smiled at me and obviously thought I was rather odd. He came round after 10 minutes or so….didn’t even cry; that was what he was used to.

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  22. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    listening to plunket pump the living shit out of john keys new biography makes me want to stab things with scissors.

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  23. Chuck Bird (4,759 comments) says:

    I at first thought he may have been misquoted. He does not appear he was. If a National MP had made such a dumb and offensive comment there would be call for his or her resignation.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/mp-reacts-stabbing-saying-boys-video-6012012

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  24. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Do they have anything like scouts and girl guides in minority communities Pete?

    What actually do they have in their culture Pete – societies? clubs? organisations? We’re never told.

    All National ever talks about are ‘Trusts”.

    I can’t remember ‘whitey’ being too much interested in ‘trusts’ as far as community groups in the past who serviced the needs of the community went. And the government certainly didn’t fund them – to the tune of tens of millions!

    Why’s Key so keen on them as they don’t seem to be of too much value – is ‘whitey’ doing something wrong Pete?

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  25. David Garrett (6,731 comments) says:

    kowtow: Are you aware of the Glenn Commission’s recent report which confirms what we already knew (cough, splutter):

    that before the evil honkey arrived, women and children were cherished as taonga and never beaten…then came the evil honkey who showed the Maori that women and children were in fact chattels, had no rights, and physical discipline was just the drum…

    So it really IS all our fault…

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  26. mikemikemikemike (319 comments) says:

    @lastmanstanding – of course!!! the solution to end violence is to gather forces and murder the entire population of a couple of towns…You sir are a genius.

    If only they had listened to (insert usual suspect list of genocidal maniacs here) you would not have had to pick up this most troublesome project. Keep up the good work though.

    Idiot.

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  27. Mark (1,425 comments) says:

    Some New Zealand children have a serious dislocation between their actions and the consequence of those actions. In this case the outcome may well have resulted in the death of the victim. This is a space for trained professionals to tread not for unqualified MP’s trying to play down the seriousness of what has happened. This is not a race issue but is often a parenting issue.

    Harriet I didn’t get the point of your comment so If I have read your comment incorrectly I apologize in advance. but if you think this is an issue confined to Polynesian kids think again.

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  28. gump (1,548 comments) says:

    @DPF

    “a moral compass that thinks it is acceptable to threaten and use weapons and stab people.”

    ————————–

    You’ve jumped to a conclusion without all of the facts.

    If recent media reports are to be believed and the kid was actually being bullying to the point that he snapped, then the matter isn’t so straightforward. Sometimes the victims fight back.

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  29. Judith (8,404 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (5,934 comments) says:
    June 26th, 2014 at 11:37 am

    Whilst I agree, in essence that bullying can reduce a child to such desperation, I do question the child’s response.

    To respond with violence in anger is an innate behaviour, however, socialisation has meant to have prevented us from resorting to such a response. Children should have the example provided that allows them a different set of coping mechanisms. Clearly this child was not able to do that, and therefore we need to know why?

    Is he in an environment where he is exposed to people dealing with adversity by using violence? Has he been given the skill set by his parents and teachers that provides him the correct example for dealing with anger? Why did this child not feel safe enough, or know how to seek assistance for the bullying he was experiencing?

    I was under the impression that all schools are required to have policy in place that teaches all children the appropriate methods of seeking assistance when experiencing bullying, – in this situation it would have had to be extreme, so why wasn’t it picked up, why didn’t the child feel safe enough to tell his parents, another adult or for his teachers to intervene?

    Whatever the background is, that child’s response indicates that something in his life is not being provided. We need to know why and work out how to change it, before that bullied child becomes yet another who either ends his own life, or becomes a dysfunctional adult.

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  30. RightNow (6,839 comments) says:

    http://tvnz.co.nz/breakfast/s2014-epwednesday-video-6012014
    The full interview with Sio starts around 13 minutes – it’s way more than just the 42 second clip I think most people have seen.

    But Sio’s comment “Boys are going to be boys” was actually in response to the second incident which I understand was an 18 year old stabbed in what seems to be a full on fight, and not about the 11 year old stabbed with the scissors.

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  31. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “…..Harriet I didn’t get the point of your comment so If I have read your comment incorrectly I apologize in advance. but if you think this is an issue confined to Polynesian kids think again…..”

    You’re right it’s not – fatherless neighbourhoods is the biggest indicator of violence and that includes all sorts of males. The irony is that women are still mostly all of the victims. And it’s their fatherless kids who go onto commit violence on other women. And as we’ve seen – their ‘off spring’ will go on to do the same again.

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  32. dime (9,662 comments) says:

    Gump – i love that clip. the kid that got slammed looks like a real little shit head.

    i feel sorry for the kid who got stabbed and the one who did it. god knows how either will end up.

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  33. Judith (8,404 comments) says:

    dime (9,164 comments) says:
    June 26th, 2014 at 12:08 pm

    i feel sorry for the kid who got stabbed and the one who did it. god knows how either will end up.

    So do I dime. Because obviously neither of those kids have been taught the right way of handling situations in life. They are not six year olds. At eleven they are old enough to know right from wrong, so clearly there is something in their lives that is allowing one to think its okay to be a bully and the other to resort to extreme violence in anger.

    How are either other them going to cope as adults, when life gets a whole lot more stressful, if their basic coping strategies are so stuffed up?

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  34. ShawnLH (4,431 comments) says:

    “Fact is West Auckland and South Auckland are populated by evil bad low lifes who breed like the proverbial. They are the pond life of humanity.

    And to the morons who bang on how its all societies fault blah blah blah will Ive got the solution for them.

    A well armed group of Concerned Citizens to take out these pond life. There that will fix the problem……. permanently.”

    This is a monumentally stupid and evil statement. You want to arm a mob of vigilantes and allow them to commit mass murder by wiping out thousands of people merely because of where they live, regardless of whether or not they are good or not so good citizens.

    If there was an award for the most dumb statement on KB for the year I think this would win it.

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  35. bringbackdemocracy (415 comments) says:

    PG mentions knee-jerk responses to dealing with violence.
    The undemocratic and unnecessary anti-smacking law can no doubt be included as an example.

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  36. David Garrett (6,731 comments) says:

    Harriet: Actually you are wrong…percentage wise, the greater number of victims of violence are young males…followed a wee way back by young women..

    But those who have referred to fatherless families are also pretty much onto it…I am quite shocked by the stories my son (aged 9) tells me about violence at the local school…it seems probably 15% or so of kids, even out here in the wops, resort to violence at the drop of a hat,… sometimes my boy doesn’t know whether the kid has a father in his life or not; when he does know, invariably there is no male role model.

    I physically disciplined my son (someone call the police!) until he was perhaps 6 or 7… a smack on the calf was the usual punishment for breaching time out…it is a very long time since it was necessary…he knows how to behave, and I am constantly warmed when – frequently – we are told what a well behaved little chap he is, at sleepovers, or cub camps or whatever…I would be absolutely astounded if he ever was found carrying a weapon…but then since he’s twice the size of his peers (my build, his mother’s height) that’s perhaps only what one would expect…

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  37. ross001 (137 comments) says:

    It’s that they have access to weapons, and have a moral compass that thinks it is acceptable to threaten and use weapons and stab people.

    Well, the “weapon” apparently was scissors which would be found in just about every school.

    Second, the kid who did the stabbing was allegedly bullied over a long period of time. Rather than focus on the kid, it might be useful to focus on the bullies and the school’s response to bullying.

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  38. Judith (8,404 comments) says:

    @ bringbackdemocracy (376 comments) says:
    June 26th, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    I would disagree with that. Whilst I accept the anti-smacking legislation needs more definition, I believe it is violence somewhere in these children’s environment that has allowed them to resort to that basic instinct when stressed.

    When a parent reacts to a child that pisses them off by using violence, then when the child is pissed off with another, they are going to do the same. Except most children don’t have the control that adults are meant to have.

    I personally see nothing wrong with a controlled smack to the hand or the butt whilst at the same time explaining why it is being given in punishment, but parents who lash out and do more, only contribute to the violence in society, not make it better.

    Apart from that, John Key was perfectly correct in ignoring that referendum, it was poorly worded and executed. Accepting it might have won him popularity but as a Prime Minister it would have been an irresponsible thing to do.

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  39. Odakyu-sen (510 comments) says:

    DG noted: “As for the differing attitudes to violence among Maori and PI communities, sorry leftie luvvies…that is a simple FACT, and anyone who has lived in the Islands will tell you so.”

    What do you think are the factors responsible this? Do any of the following apply?

    “It’s just the way we do things”
    “I have a short fuse”
    “My heart rules my head”
    “It (violence) happens before I realize it” (Suggesting that the perpetrator is somehow not in control)
    “This is how I demonstrate my authority over you” (Suggesting a deliberate action by the perpetrator)

    Can anyone add to my list of 5 pro-violent attitudes above?

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  40. scrubone (3,082 comments) says:

    I personally see nothing wrong with a controlled smack to the hand or the butt whilst at the same time explaining why it is being given in punishment, but parents who lash out and do more, only contribute to the violence in society, not make it better.

    Lemme guess, you think the old law allowed and/or encouraged the latter? Sigh.

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  41. Manolo (13,516 comments) says:

    The sanctimonious male-hater, you-all-men-out-there-are-rapists>/i>, has returned to lecture us in behavioural science.

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  42. kowtow (7,925 comments) says:

    odie

    Brain explosion .

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  43. Jinky (181 comments) says:

    Kids fighting in school is not new. It’s over 30 years since I was at school in Scotland. We moved every couple of years for my Dad’s job and I recall being in fights in the playground more days than not. Punishable by getting strapped by a teacher (usually male) to show me how “Violence is not the answer” !! Mostly fists and boots but now and again sticks, bottles and stones. Some kids got seriously hurt but it never stopped us from “standing our ground”. Parents encouraged us to “stick up for yourself”. “If you’re being bullied then hit them back” was the message we received. I’m surprised to see so many on KB suggesting that self-defence is not acceptable?

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  44. lastmanstanding (1,240 comments) says:

    Well that got the usual suspects all wound up. Not Ive got your attention start thinking about the last four decades and how the decline in behavior standards in certain sections of the community has neatly coincided with a more ‘liberal” approach to discipline and order in our society.
    I suggest its no mere coincidence but a casual effect of so called liberal attitudes leading to a break down in the traditional family unit to the point where we have total and complete dysfunction.
    So has this been good for those involved like the alleged perpetrator and victim in this instance.
    Well Im asking you all the question so come on and answer it.
    And pray tell what it your solution to fix the situation that is if you can even admit there is a problem to be fixed.
    Thought not. No solution only wringing of hands and bland platitudes all worth nothing.

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  45. RRM (9,638 comments) says:

    Labour MP Su’a William Sio… also has a warning for outsiders – “don’t judge us”.

    Well I’m sorry but if there’s an “us” then there’s something distinct and distinctive that is capable of being judged. So I will be that guy….

    Little Maori and PI boys in South Auckland think they’re black gangsters out of south central Los Angeles.

    I’m sorry if this offends, but it is the truth.

    Fix that, and half of this problem will be fixed.

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  46. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    What solutions do you suggest lastmanstanding?

    Compulsory “traditional family units” are probably unrealistic.

    A Family Violence Death Review Committee report that has just been released says that about half of murders are family related.

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  47. kowtow (7,925 comments) says:

    RRM

    You are absolutly right about the gangster (and all the baggage that goes with that) thing. And it isn’t just the little Maori and PI boys in South Auckland,it’s the length and breadth of the country and there’s no shortage of honkey “wannabes” either.

    It truly is an undermining of what the beige badger dismissively calls traditional NZ.

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  48. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    I remember reading Jimmy Boyle of the Gorbals brilliant first book. There was an example of a man made good. Is that you Jimmy?

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  49. Pete George (23,299 comments) says:

    The fourth report from the Family Violence Death Review Committee (FVDRC) calls for a radical change in the way New Zealand responds to its most dangerous and chronic cases of family violence.

    From 2009 to 2012, 139 people died from family violence and family violence-related homicides – an average of 35 per year.

    Of the 139 deaths, 126 were within the FVDRC’s terms of reference. Of those 126 deaths:

    - 63 adults were killed by partners or ex-partners
    - 37 children died from abuse or neglect
    - 26 adults were killed by family members who were not their partners
    - 40 percent of all those who died lived in the most deprived 20 percent of residential areas
    - 50 percent of intimate partner violence deaths took place during a planned or actual separation
    - 46 percent of children killed were known to Child, Youth and Family
    - Māori children were 5.5 times more likely and Pacific children 4.8 times more likely to die from abuse and neglect than children of other ethnicities
    - Māori adults were 4.9 times more likely and Pacific adults 5.3 times more likely to be responsible for child abuse and neglect deaths than adults of other ethnicities
    - 77 children were present when a parent or sibling was killed
    - 240 surviving children have been affected by exposure to fatal intimate partner violence and child abuse and neglect.

    http://www.hqsc.govt.nz/our-programmes/mrc/fvdrc/news-and-events/news/1599/

    The FVDRC’s recommendations include the following:

    - The Campaign for Action on Family Violence extends its focus to encourage people to safely and effectively take action when their friends, family, neighbours or workmates are at risk of being killed in family violence.
    - New Zealand Police strengthens its response to family violence by better managing repeat offenders, better supporting repeat victims, and developing tools to assess the risk of offenders killing their victims.
    - Better support is given to children whose parent, caregiver or sibling, is killed in family violence.
    - Non-fatal strangulation is made a separate crime under the Crimes Act 1961.
    - The test for self-defence is modified to make it more accessible to repeat victims who kill their abusers.
    - A partial defence is introduced for repeat victims of family violence who were not acting in self-defence when they retaliated against their abusers.
    - Judges be given education and training on family violence, and more background information about defendants charged with family violence, including any previous history of family violence convictions.

    Full report PDF: http://www.hqsc.govt.nz/assets/FVDRC/NEMR-images-files/FVDRC-fourth-report-media-summary-June-2014.pdf

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  50. David Garrett (6,731 comments) says:

    RRM: Spot on…and I would suggest that we parents need to combat this “gangsta” shit early and often…for example, I don’t allow my boy to wear his caps on backwards…he admits that occasionally he gets teased about that, but – perhaps partly because he is big – it never goes any further. He has also had drummed into him since he was a wee tacker than tagging and graffiti are the actions of idiots…seems to pretty much have worked; he will often point out some graffiti to me and make some disparaging remark about the “idiot” who did it.

    Similarly, I would be astounded if my boy ever vandalised anything…particularly trees. I have drummed into him that that is totally unacceptable, and would result in “a beating” if he ever got caught doing it….The “beating” is of course to some extent a joke, but he is very well aware that Dad would be furious, and he would need to give me a wide berth for a long time.

    Odaka: Again, I can only really speak for Tonga, having lived and worked there for four years, having practised law their for 15 years, and having Tongan rellies.

    They are very big on using “it’s the Tongan way” (faka Tonga) to explain and justify just about anything that we may find unacceptable, from women loudly hoiking in the street to kids being beaten with sticks. You do not usually hear anything about “short fuses” or hearts ruling heads.

    When alcohol has resulted in extreme violence, they will often say – and I am inclined to believe it – that they had no recollection of events after a certain time. Crucially, the same thing happens when they get pissed and violence DOESN’T happen…I have often been asked “Why did you leave suddenly last night?” The answer will usually have been “I saw your eyes change, and knew it was time to get out of there”

    Some sociologist, psychologist or other -ist will no doubt say all of the above is bullshit, but that is my experience over 15 years of interacting with Tongans – both in bed and in bars and in the street.

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  51. mikemikemikemike (319 comments) says:

    Lastmanstanding – not sure, I do know its not going to be following the script of Mein Kampf like you advocate.

    Perhaps you can detail how we have declined in behaviour standards? Provide some tangible reasons why something changed 40 years ago that has lead to this? The youth is the way they are because of the decisions of your generation and the generation before them. It is not ‘their’ fault. Perhaps it is because of what happened 40 years ago that things are the way they are now rather than because they were the good old day.

    Your mindset and the mindset of most of the old farts on here is that people under 30 are some kind of different species to them, raised to think the world owes them something. We were raised in a world created by those (and fucked up) before us, you are reaping what you all have sown. It was previous generations that segregated communities on racial lines, it was previous generations that took heavily subsidised university and then charged my generation for it. It was previous generations that voted for the age of entitlement (welfare). It was previous generations that voted for the anti-smacking bill.

    These decisions were made by people who grew up on those wonderful days you speak of, maybe they really were not all that rosy after all….I mean if they were why would they have changed at all?

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  52. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    so much of the scrawl blasted onto walls and buildings is mindless and idiotic. However, some of Banksy’s graffiti street art sells for extremely high prices and i certainly wouldn’t list him and many others under the category of idiot.

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  53. Left Right and Centre (2,879 comments) says:

    Some sociologist, psychologist or other -ist will no doubt say all of the above is bullshit, but that is my experience over 15 years of interacting with Tongans – both in bed and in bars and in the street.

    Please – tell us all more about Tongans in bed and ‘it’s the Tongan way’. I want all the excitement in life I can get.

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  54. James Stephenson (2,087 comments) says:

    for example, I don’t allow my boy to wear his caps on backwards…

    Wait, what, seriously? I mean, my kids get told that stupid twisty-fingered hand signals are unacceptable, and I take the piss out of their flat-brimmed caps worn at funny angles while they shake their heads at mine with the peak curved over, so it’s actually comfortable and works to keep the sun out of your eyes, but…backwards? People have been doing that as long as caps have existed, I even have a photo of my Dad (72 this year) with his flat cap on backwards aged about 19 whilst working on his Uncles farm :D

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  55. Colville (2,172 comments) says:

    If this was USA we would be reading about a mass school shooting instead.
    Kid would have stolen his dads glock and gone gangster.

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  56. David Garrett (6,731 comments) says:

    James: Perhaps you have a point…in any event my boy seems quite happy to wear his cap like his Dad…and he just laughs at those who tease him about not being cool…Both my kids have been brought up not to judge what is right and acceptable by what their peers do and think, but by their own internal standards…as I have suggested, his Mother and I have obviously done something right…both kids have a waiting list of other kids wanting to invite them for sleepovers etc.And I would be more flabbergasted than angry if Charlie ever got involved in the kind of shit that has just gone down in South Auckland…

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  57. lastmanstanding (1,240 comments) says:

    mikemikemikemike

    I can only speak for myself and be responsible for myself. I am not and cannot be responsible for the behavior of others unless I am giving the authority and control over them and clearly you and others are not going to give me that control.

    I was raised in a 2 parent mother and father household. My wife and I raised two wonderful children in a 2 parent mother and father household where as with my parents Dad went to work and earned the income to keep the family and Mum stayed at home.

    Both have gone on to have very successful careers and are positive contributors to the country and the economy.

    Now I know this is not what you and the other liberals want to hear but I will not apologise for the success my mother and father nor for the success of my wife and I in raising two children to be successful adults.

    You and the other mealy mouthed here are incapable of recognizing the difference between good parenting and bad parenting and good morals and ethics and bad morals and ethics.

    You are the problem. I am the solution.

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  58. lastmanstanding (1,240 comments) says:

    BTW the world doesn’t and never has owed my a living. I have paid my way and paid plenty of taxes over four decades to keep the lazy indolent and slothful.

    As John F Kennedy said.. ask not what your country can do for you Akl what you can do for your country.

    The answer……………. get a job get life and stop blaming everyone else for your own short comings.

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  59. mikemikemikemike (319 comments) says:

    That is exactly what this kid did….he stopped hoping someone would help and handled the situation himself.

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  60. mikemikemikemike (319 comments) says:

    Who exactly are you blaming for this incident lastmanstanding? Are you blaming the parent(s) of the kid that was bullied to a point where he felt his only respite was to act in a more extreme fashion that the kids doing the bullying? Or are you blaming the parents of the bullies?

    Do you even know what the hell you are talking about? or are you making a series of assumptions about this kids life because he is brown and lives in Mangere?

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  61. cha (3,853 comments) says:

    A well armed group of Concerned Citizens to take out these pond life. There that will fix the problem……. permanently.

    You’d fit right in with the twelve golden men. Arsehole.

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  62. Goldsmith (27 comments) says:

    What more is to be expected from a dumb Labour MP?

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  63. Left Right and Centre (2,879 comments) says:

    so much of the scrawl blasted onto walls and buildings is mindless and idiotic. However, some of Banksy’s graffiti street art sells for extremely high prices and i certainly wouldn’t list him and many others under the category of idiot.

    He’s still a vandal.

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  64. Fentex (909 comments) says:

    Have you seen reports to suggest he actually was carrying a knife?

    No, I hadn’t heard that detail.

    It may seem a little odd but I somehow find the idea that a kid would get angry, seek out something sharp like scissors, and employ them to stab someone, worse than the thought they may have been carrying a knife and lost control of themselves and employed the knife.

    The first seems (obviously subject to being better informed) more aggressive and irrational than the second which while undesirable seems to make more sense.

    And a world that makes more sense is more comfortable to think about, which often encourages us to fall into the Just world Fallacy.

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  65. Jinky (181 comments) says:

    No Dom Knots I’m not Jimmy Boyle. I did like his books though – Sense of Freedom and Prison Diaries.

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