Craig making it easy for National to say no deal

June 23rd, 2014 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

Conservative Party leader has announced he would contest the September 20 election in the East Coast Bays electorate, a National stronghold held by Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully for the past 20 years.

Craig conceded at yesterday’s campaign launch, that he would lose if National did not step aside.

But he’s not prepared to accept a deal half-cooked, saying he would be grateful if National stepped aside completely, but was opposed to a situation where McCully ran but only for the party vote.

I think that makes it easy for National.

It’s one thing to stand a candidate, but to say you are comfortable with voters supporting a potential coalition partner, as that leaves the decision in the hand of the local voters.

It is quite another thing to not stand a candidate, and effectively force the decision on the electorate. It is also very unpopular with the local members.

If Colin Craig is saying he doesn’t want an “endorsement”, but a full withdrawal, then National can more easily say, “No”.

Tags: ,

106 Responses to “Craig making it easy for National to say no deal”

  1. alex Masterley (1,489 comments) says:

    This bloke (and I use that term in it’s widest sense) is a complete nutter.
    First they bag National in their advertising and then expect the Nats to roll over on request.
    I cannot see that happening at all.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. mikenmild (10,598 comments) says:

    Nut, nut, nutter…

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 17 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    Nutter nutter nutter nutter

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    Key doesn’t need Craig.

    He can form a coalition with the Greens.

    More his style.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 17 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. mikenmild (10,598 comments) says:

    Key won’t need Craig anyway, Winston will be much more accommodating.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 17 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. Pete George (22,719 comments) says:

    The Conservative Party’s potential coalition partner and would be electorate gifter is the focus of attention on their website:

    Had a guts full of National’s abandoning their principles? Had enough of their arrogance? Had enough of them ignoring referendums; like the one on asset sales and the one on anti-smacking? Had enough of Bill English’s borrowing habits? Had enough of the two waka Government?

    Come and meet the man who isn’t afraid to say ‘enough is enough’. Come and hear Colin Craig’s antidote to National’s toxic behaviour. Come and meet the man who will give our next Government some backbone.

    http://www.conservativeparty.org.nz/index.php?page=Home

    An odd way to make friends and influence people in politics.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 12 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Griff (6,690 comments) says:

    All the usual idiots are following the party because of the conservative in the name. The Colon Crag Conservative party is in reality a misused identifier as valid as democratic in a country name.
    He might even get in and if he does their are going to be a lot of upset conservatives when he fails to deliver anything of value to their politics

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. Pete George (22,719 comments) says:

    It’s funny seeing mikenmild and Redbaiter talking the same language.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. stephieboy (2,128 comments) says:

    More his style.? Redbaiter , keep up with the hallucinating .!

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    It doesn’t matter what Colin Craig’s policies are.

    He’s an outsider, and a vote for the Conservative Party is the best way to register dissatisfaction with the present state of NZ politics and one party rule by a coalition of racists, beltway socialists and their elitist mainstream media lapdogs.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. NK (1,060 comments) says:

    This really boils my blood.

    I was part of the Epsom campaign in 2005 (as were hundreds of others, and expertly run and managed by John Boscawen) that Rodney Hide won. We worked bloody hard for every vote. The National Party were writing to their supporters telling them to vote for Richard Worth. We had to convince the public that Rodney was the best candidate, and by voting for Rodney you not only got him and a few other Act MPs (which would help National), but you also got Richard Worth. We had to sell that message week after week, day after day. I knocked on so many doors my knuckles practically bled. Act worked bloody hard that year to survive; and a week out from polling day the Herald ran an article saying we couldn’t win and it was all over. There were so many things against Act in 2005, yet we earned every bloody vote we got. As we should have.

    Fast forward to now. Craig has suggested he could win Rodney, Pakuranga, Epsom, Upper Harbour and North Shore. But he decides to stand in ECB. Then he says he doesn’t want a deal, but National could give him if they choose. Then he says he can’t win without one (in other words “I need one, help”!)

    Votes are earned at elections. They are not given away. His party needs to campaign like nothing before and bloody well earn them.

    It’s that simple. David Seymour (Act) has been knocking on doors and campaigning in Epsom for four months . It’s time for Craig to do the hard yards as well instead on bleating and moaning in the media like a hungry cat.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 28 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. johnwellingtonwells (121 comments) says:

    Thank God that I no longer have responsbility for drafting ministerial repones to questions in the house. Craig has no idea of undertanding how parliament works and the format required for questions and answers to be drafted. It is bad enough looking at some of the questions that the Greens ask. If you don’t ask questions in the standard format then this provides the Minister with an opportunity to make the questioner look silly. A leader of a political party needs experience in the parliamentary process before forming their own political party.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. mikenmild (10,598 comments) says:

    ‘It doesn’t matter what Colin Craig’s policies are.’
    Correct, because there is no chance of any of those loony policies being implemented.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 12 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. davidp (3,540 comments) says:

    What a muddle. Craig really has no ability to decide on a coherent strategy, or to stay on message. This is because he is a bit dim.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Manolo (13,301 comments) says:

    Is P.G. giving “superior” advise to Colin Craig?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. OTGO (508 comments) says:

    Colin Craig doesn’t have to knock on doors. He has money to do the marketing for him.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    Get one back on the smug intolerant bastards who seek to make NZ a one party state.

    Vote for outsider Colin Craig.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 14 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. redqueen (448 comments) says:

    @ Pete George

    I completely agree. My wife asked the other day what the Conservatives were actually about, so popping onto their website, the first thing which stuck out was that absolute nonsense. If they think that is going to endear anyone (Labour or Green supporters?), let alone people who have or do support National, they’re nuts. They’re not a coalition partner, in waiting or otherwise.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    “This allows ministers to make the questioner look silly…….”

    …….such jolly japes in parliament . It’s not a surprise to learn that ministers of the Crown treat their constitutional duties with such contempt. No wonder the disillusionment among large parts of the electorate with the whole process.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. NK (1,060 comments) says:

    Colin Craig doesn’t have to knock on doors. He has money to do the marketing for him.

    Possibly another problem for him as ~$26,000 incl GST doesn’t go very far in the electorate spend. Labour (not the party, the work) is not an election expense so he needs foot soldiers to win this.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    ‘he has money to do the marketing for him”

    What and labour and National don’t? At least we know Craigs’ money hasn’t come off the backs of ripped off Chinese peasants.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. mister nui (957 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, I would actually like to see Key hint at a deal with the Greens.

    It would see a tremendous rush of support to ACT, that there will be no chance of any stitch-up between the watermelons and the Nat’s.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Pdubyah (11 comments) says:

    I live in the electorate, and there is no way the Colin will get my vote. Ever. Even if McCully is a dinosaur.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Chthoniid (2,026 comments) says:

    @OTGO

    It’s been signalled well in advance that Craig was intending to run in ECB.

    As a voter in that electorate, I can assure I’ve experienced no efforts on part of the CP to market or solicit for my vote. There does not appear to an electoral strategy other than to get on the news, and try to manipulate National to give them a free pass. This is unappealing. It is inept. An accommodation with Craig at this stage is simply unpalatable.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. 3-coil (1,200 comments) says:

    Castigating the Conservatives for criticism of National in their publicity statements is a red herring.

    Why not apply the same refusal to work with the Maori and Act parties? – they have both attacked the Nats with biting criticism in the past, let’s categorically rule them out too?

    It is pointless for the Conservatives to try to kiss-arse their way into Parliament by sucking up to the Nats and agreeing with everything they say – they have to have points of difference to attract voters who are almost but not quite totally happy with the National government’s policies and performance.

    The Conservatives may well end up with 2 or 3 percent (or possibly even more) of the vote – if National are confident that they don’t need these votes, good on them…but the National supporters who seem so obsessed with crushing Colin Craig and his party will have something to reflect on while they are licking their wounds if the Conservative’s votes are all binned, and the Labour/Green/Mana-Internet/NZ1st etc etc monster slides through to form the next government.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. RightNow (6,638 comments) says:

    I think I get the gist. If you’re a grumpy, disaffected old arse-hole, Colin Craig’s your best hope.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “Redbaiter, I would actually like to see Key hint at a deal with the Greens.”

    They had some kind of working agreement in place there a while ago. Its expired now I think.

    Key hates Conservatives and has redefined the National party as “progressive”

    His best buddy is Obama, the most progressive president the US has ever seen, and the front for the US Green lobby.

    I would not be the least surprised to see Key reach out to the Greens.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    Clintonoid- “As a voter in that electorate, I can assure I’ve experienced no efforts on part of the CP to market or solicit for my vote.”

    I’d guess they’re selective about who they approach. No good wasting time and money on committed progressives.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Chthoniid (2,026 comments) says:

    @3-coil

    but the National supporters who seem so obsessed with crushing Colin Craig and his party will have something to reflect on while they are licking their wounds if the Conservative’s votes are all binned

    No, the CP is being castigated for wanting to be gifted a seat rather than going out there and campaigning for it.

    This is still a democracy. Earn those votes.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    Ha, anti-Conservative bigots like Clintonoid demanding that Craig “earn their vote” when hell would freeze over before they’d ever vote for anything outside the current progressive paradigm.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    I don’t get it. Craig has been honest about his chances running toe-to-toe against an incumbent in a blue-chip seat, that is refreshing.

    He’s said all along he will do his own thing, and National can do theres. He’s not sought any special deal. No ‘cups of tea.’

    He’s said he is more likely to run with National but will negotiate after 20 Sept with whomever gets the most votes.

    Sounds pretty normal to me. But then again, the media need to twist stories out of anything Colin Craig does/or does not, say.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. mikenmild (10,598 comments) says:

    Did you miss the bit where Craig said he would be grateful if National stood aside?

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    Remind me again why 30-years-at-Parly Murray McCully HAS TO BE the electorate Mp for East Coast B., while away from NZ all the time? He’ll get back on the List anyway, so if NOT ONE SOUL voted for him, it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference.

    Good enough for Bill English, Lockwood Smith, David Carter etc..It hurts the Centre-Right, how?

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. altiora (200 comments) says:

    CC’s idiocy is astounding: why contest a seat that is a National stronghold? Why even entertain an Epsom deal when you know it is deeply unpopular with voters and will result in National losing votes? But there is also a base cynicism at play: CC wants a seat for life without the tiresome necessity of being selected as a National candidate.

    As I’ve said repeatedly, CC needs to be targeting people who don’t vote National. He should be targeting a South Auckland electorate with large numbers of Pasifika voters who are tired of Labour’s social policies. He should attack Labour full frontal, with a few snide attacks on National but not enough to make working with National seem hypocritical. In such an electorate, National could simply decide not to stand a candidate in the hope that the Conservative candidate wins by taking the National vote and chipping away at the Labour vote.

    But I guess that is too much work for CC; a seat for life is so much more attractive.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    Milky… wouldn’t you? I mean, what do you expect him to say… ‘I’m truly devastated and disappointed, Murray is such a great bloke!”

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. waripori (7 comments) says:

    The best solution seems to be for United future and the Conservatives to do an Internet Mana deal. They could form s a single party with an agreement to split up after the election the same way as IM. Dunne will win Ohariu , the combined parties might poll over 3% if voters know the votes wont be wasted and they would get 3 MPs in total.

    It wont look as shonky as the Nats gifting ECB to the Conservatives as the bare faced precedent has been set by the Left.In addition United future and the Conservatives probably have a few things they could agree on. Dunne has said once bitten twice shy on the Religious right but that may not actually be what the Conservatives are. Who would know?

    Dunne would give Craig the political experience he needs and comes across OK on the Tele. After the election they might even find it works out OK which would actually give United Future a future

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. Chthoniid (2,026 comments) says:

    @iMP

    Remind me again why 30-years-at-Parly Murray McCully HAS TO BE the electorate Mp for East Coast B., while away from NZ all the time?

    Because that’s what the electorate has repeatedly voted for. It’s how our democracy works.

    And he’s a decent electorate MP. I have been able to visit him in his Browns Bay office to talk issues in the past. He’s not overseas all the time.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. Chuck Bird (4,661 comments) says:

    If one is conservative with a small p there are only two options – the CP or NZF. It John Key wants to take the wind out their sails all he has to do is keep his word on the promise he made at the Family First conference prior to the last election and change the anti-smacking legislation as good parents are being prosecuted for lightly smacking a naughty child.

    The law is not about the safety of children. it is about control. This government needs to get their priories right when it comes to child safety and prosecuted and punish real child abusers not good parents. The could also set up a system to have a independent body to sack useless judges like the on who gave the man who impregnated a 13 year old a years home detention.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. David Garrett (6,307 comments) says:

    Hmm…this is a worry…I have been concerned forever about the calibre of advice Colin is getting…doesn’t sound like it’s getting any better…

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. mikenmild (10,598 comments) says:

    I think he is his own adviser.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    Key will be thinking longer term. In 2017, there will be no Dunne, no ACT and Winston will be in his mid 70s.

    It’s ridiculous not to consider the Conservative Party. Colin Craig is in his mid forties, has built a grass-roots up constituency with a healthy membership (that rivals the Greens) and higher poll results than Mana, UF and ACT combined (who are all subsidised by parliament).

    Am I missing something here? Or is the Center-Right getting Cunliffe wobbles?

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. mikenmild (10,598 comments) says:

    Perhaps Key can just wait and see whether Craig can actually garner significant support. What National needs is a support party that can reliably get over the threshold, not another Mickey Mouse coat-tails arrangement.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. dirty harry (416 comments) says:

    If the useful idiot milkmike says its a bad thing then its a rip snorter of an idea that must be chased with gusto.

    Vote CC and the Conservatives.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    Well, Milky, let’s have a lookie at your .”actually garner significant support” thought of yours. I agree.

    1) After setting up seven weeks earlier, the 2011 anonymous Conservatives got 2.7% of the party vote. What does that suggest? That there is a niche constituency out there looking for a home and it ain’t National.

    2) Over the last 3 years, the Conservatives are consistently the 5th highest polling party, gaining more votes than 4 of the parties in parliament.

    3) At the 2011 election over 87,000 people gave at least one of their votes to the new and invisible Conservative party.

    4) In the Auckland local board elections in 2013 over 50,000 people voted for Conservative candidates (in a low turn-out election).

    6) The Conservatives continue to out-poll half of the parties in parliament

    7) The Conservative party have a publicly reported membership that would rival the Green party numerically.

    8) The Conservative party will be more prepared this election than they were in 2013.

    The polls will close. The CR vs CL is neck-and-neck. The facts above cannot be ignored if a CRight Gov is to emerge.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. stephieboy (2,128 comments) says:

    Why are rabid right moon bats attracted to the Con Party.?

    Whats the turn on Redbaiter and coy.?

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. NK (1,060 comments) says:

    Key will be thinking longer term. In 2017, there will be no Dunne, no ACT and Winston will be in his mid 70s.

    The Con cheerleaders are incredible. Imagine predicting the outcome of an election three years away.

    Astonishing.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. bringbackdemocracy (391 comments) says:

    The Conservatives got 2.7% of the party vote at the last election. That is they got more support than 4 of the parties currently in parliament.
    In 2011 ALL of the polling agencies underestimated their level of support.
    They are currently polling HIGHER than they were in 2011.
    If the Conservatives had won an electorate seat in 2011 they would have got 3 seats, and National, Labour and the Greens would each have got one less.
    They are on track to be in the next parliament.
    http://www.3news.co.nz/Politics/3NewsReidResearchPoll.aspx

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. dirty harry (416 comments) says:

    same reason shrieking screaming leftist hand wringers ( Q&A sun morning ) are attracted to the loon left stephieboy ..did ya see him ?! What a full on loon !

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. Pete George (22,719 comments) says:

    The Conservatives got 2.7% of the party vote at the last election.

    That was a good result considering the very short timeframe the party operated in and the lack of public exposure.

    A big question is will the much greater exposure of Colin Craig since then enhance or hurt their chances?

    A significant factor this time that wasn’t present in 2011 is there will probably be considerable scaremongering from opposing parties about the dangers of a National+Conservative combination.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. stephieboy (2,128 comments) says:

    dirty harry, but you have to admit it appears the Con Party leader and followers like you do pack some pretty weird beliefs . Or do have serious doubts about chem trail, Birther and Moon landing hoax theories etc. ?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. bringbackdemocracy (391 comments) says:

    A big question is will the much greater exposure of Colin Craig since then enhance or hurt their chances?

    The fact that the Conservatives are higher in the polls now than in 2011, answers that question.
    Last election they went from 0.0 to 2.7 in a seven week campaign. This time the campaign will be longer, the preparation more advanced, the team more experienced and the starting point higher.
    They seem to be doing O.K for a campaign only 24hrs old.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. stephieboy (2,128 comments) says:

    bringbackdemocracy

    , but things could very well unravel as supporters such as the ones that post here are quizzed about their far right beliefs including many bizarre conspiracy theories.

    The facts are ,it is behind the smoke and mirrors ,a far right party.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. dirty harry (416 comments) says:

    Things are going very well for CC..all and sundry are talking about him ( good or bad it doesn’t matter ) , its free advertising ,
    he is everywhere..PG is panicking , milkmild is having palpitations..stepieboy just pissed his/her pants …fantastic

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. Pete George (22,719 comments) says:

    The fact that the Conservatives are higher in the polls now than in 2011, answers that question.

    There wasn’t an equivalent time for them last election. In last week’s polls the Conservative results:

    Fairfax-IPSOS 0.9% (down 0.7)
    Roy Morgan 1.5% (up 0.5)

    That doesn’t answer very much at all.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “but you have to admit it appears the Con Party leader and followers like you do pack some pretty weird beliefs”

    Not so weird as a smearing and dishonest commie dirtbag whose spiritual home is Nth Korea and who follow the words of a looney tune German commie who even when those words were written way back in 1850, calls himself a “Progressive”.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Chuck Bird (4,661 comments) says:

    “Key will be thinking longer term. In 2017, there will be no Dunne, no ACT and Winston will be in his mid 70s.”

    Winston will be 72. However, Shane Jones will be 57. Just have a look a ipredict. The majority bet Winston will go with National. Winston like most people will want to leave a legacy if possible. That would apply more so to politicians. He will want NZF to survive. No one currently in the party could lead it to get 5%. However, Shane Jones could.

    If I was John Key I would prefer Winston than Colin Craig as a coalition partner. I will be seeing all of them in a few days at the Family First Forum on the Family.

    Colin is going to have to lift his game for me to consider voting for his party. Their is a fine line sometimes between self confidence and arrogance. He has made a few dollars in business but that does not impress me. Gareth Morgan had as well and he has PhD but that does not stop him from being an arrogant fuck wit.

    I seen Colin a week back at a meeting in Hamilton and told him he will have to get his facts right and what I thought of his stupid poster. Unlike many on KB I do not hide behind a pseudonym and I will say in person what I say here.

    Colin, learn some negotiating and media skills if you hope to have a career in politics and stop trying to make out you are more honest than 99% of your potential voters. Also, John Key is the democratically elected Prime Minister and should be shown respect.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. ciaron (1,309 comments) says:

    Stephie said;
    dirty harry, but you have to admit it appears the Con Party leader and followers like you do pack some pretty weird beliefs . Or do have serious doubts about chem trail, Birther and Moon landing hoax theories etc. ?

    link please, or it didn’t happen.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. stephieboy (2,128 comments) says:

    claron, here for starters,

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/AUDIO-Conservative-Party-leader—not-sure-of-moon-landings—hasnt-looked-into-it/tabid/506/articleID/39398/Default.aspx

    I’m going by some of the more bizarre posts by his supporters on KB especially General Debate . But it would be useful if Craig, party members and supporters came foreword to unequivocally renounce these beliefs as having no place in CP policy or thinking.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. ciaron (1,309 comments) says:

    Like this stephie?

    ‘Certainly the media are making a good story out of this and using a fair bit of licence. I have always thought man did go to the moon and said so to media interviewers but not all media chose to portray my views that way”. Mr Craig joked that he has “rejected the conspiracy theory that suggests the media are alien beings despite their unpredictable behaviour.”

    And this:

    What is your position on chemtrails?

    Our Party has no formal position on chemtrails.

    I am aware of the theory that chemicals are being released at high altitude for some nefarious purpose but don’t know whether there is any truth in this or not.

    and this:

    Colin, do you think the Conservative Party has become labelled as as a Christian conservative party? And if so do you think that will benefit the Party or be to its detriment?

    Hi there,

    Yes some media have attempted to label The Conservative Party as a ‘Christian’ conservative party amongst other things. I find few, if any, of those so quick to apply such a label have actually read our published material or our foundational principles.

    The Conservative Party is a mainstream party and we have members from many different religions and faith backgrounds as well as those who have no religious association. While some opponents may see a “Christian” label as a way to attack [or box] the party I don’t think the label will stick as it is not an accurate description.

    I think in the minds of some opponents the “Christian” tag is a negative and a way to scare away voters. There are others who see it as a plus (i.e. finally a party with values). In my view, as the label is not accurate, it is probably more detrimental than helpful.

    If you’d like more information about the values we hold, please see the Principles page on our website, or follow this link:

    Principles

    http://www.conservativeparty.org.nz/index.php?page=FAQ

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. jonnycomelately (17 comments) says:

    How can he possibly expect them to gift him ECB when on the first page of their website he calls the Nats toxic?

    Mad Mad Madder and Madder!

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    For the record, Colin Craig believes men landed on the moon, and doesn’t believe in vapor trail conspiracies. It was marcus Lush and some other media person, who ‘manufactured’ these lines from wider general comments and “have you stopped beating your wife yet?” kind of questions.

    At worst, all he said was ‘I don’t know about theories on non-Moon landings, never looked in to it” NOT “we didn’t land on the Moon.”

    This is how the NZ media works: creating its own news.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “How can he possibly expect them to gift him ECB when on the first page of their website he calls the Nats toxic?”

    The bigotry towards Craig, (and the ignorance) tells you what most people know about politics in NZ.

    The above question is best answered by asking why Key hinted at a co-alition with Craig when he called them crazy.

    But its OK when Key does it right?

    Obama’s little blue eyed boy is right on with the informed and aware NZ voter.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. stephieboy (2,128 comments) says:

    claron, regardless things tend to stick and is difficult to shrug it off. It’s also about perceptions as jonnycomelately rams home the point
    The fact that someone like deluded Redbaiter is a Craig fan boy speaks volumes .
    Deep trouble ahead for the CP.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. ciaron (1,309 comments) says:

    Sooo, you’re going to stop claiming that Colin Craig believes in chemtrails and moon landing hoxes now though…. right?

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. David Garrett (6,307 comments) says:

    iMP: You are exactly right…but that’s now (sadly) a part of politics…Politicians need to learn to deflect sand-trap media questions and answer the question they think deserves an answer..

    I personally lament that that is so, but with the type of vermin which now inhabit the MSM there is little choice…In my short political career I answered questions directly several times…and got in the shit as they spun both the answer AND the question that preceded it…Rodney was always saying – rightly – “stop lamenting how it is, and learn to handle them”…I never did, at least not particularly well. Lange played the vermin like a violin….but he was an exceptional poli…at least while his big head was doing the thinking…

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Colville (2,057 comments) says:

    Even if NZF signal clearly that they will go with Nats Key will 100% do a deal with Cons so that utter cnut Winston Peters cannot bend Key over a barrel later as we all know he will try and do.

    Whineston cannot be trusted.

    Key will want options, lots of them. More than that Key will want to be building a relationship for 2017 with the Cons.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “Sooo, you’re going to stop claiming that Colin Craig believes in chemtrails and moon landing hoxes now though…. right?”

    We could claim that the ACT leader believes in incest, but we don’t because we know he doesn’t. We leave such cowardly and dishonest smears to the left. Its what identifies them as people we don’t need anywhere near govt.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. mikenmild (10,598 comments) says:

    I’m betting that after the election John Key will have a lot to say about how much Winston can be trusted.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. stephieboy (2,128 comments) says:

    Redbaiter ,

    first answer that question about your lobotomy?. Then we can move on.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. davidp (3,540 comments) says:

    ciaron>Sooo, you’re going to stop claiming that Colin Craig believes in chemtrails and moon landing hoxes now though…. right?

    I don’t know that anyone has said he believes either of those two things. But, when presented with a choice of either well-established fact or a nutty conspiracy theory, he says that he can’t choose because he hasn’t investigated the issue. That shows that he isn’t quick witted enough to dissociate himself from nutbars, and also that he lacks the self-awareness required to predict how this lack of wit would play out in the media. And he made the mistake over and over again showing that he either can’t learn, or that he lives in a bubble.

    The scary black and white photo of Craig staring at the camera is still on the Conservative web site. Someone with self-awareness would realise that it makes him look sinister, like a sex offender eyeing up his next victim. That Craig doesn’t realise this is a problem. That no one else in the party does either, or that they do and tell Craig but he doesn’t listed to them, is another problem.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. David Garrett (6,307 comments) says:

    Red: You constantly betray your own naivete and lack of nous…”We” wont raise Whyte’s philosophical musing about the rights and wrongs of incest…but you can bet your arse the MSM will…constantly…As will Labour of course, as you say…

    But what is the “cowardly and dishonest smear” there? Whyte very stupidly allowed himself to philosophically muse about the morality of incest…what he should have said is “ACT has no policy on incest, I personally believe it to be wrong, and the piece you quote me from was written as a philosopher and not a politician”…or something along those lines. but he didn’t, and it will be forever around his neck, even if he DOES make it into parliament..

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. ciaron (1,309 comments) says:

    Except, davidp, that’s not what he said. In the Lush interview he said he believed that we had been to the moon, and he was aware of serious people that disputed the event. He then said it didn’t really interest him to know one way or the other, and you seem to be insinuating that not caring is somehow the wrong position to take?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. tvb (4,192 comments) says:

    National needs to do sone serious maths on Colin Craig. First of all he is actively campaigning for the National party vote. If he fails to get more than 5% then National will get half those seats anyway. Further any increase in Colin Craig’s support will come from National not labour. So why vote for him. I am hardening against any deal with Craig.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. davidp (3,540 comments) says:

    ciaron… There are two problems…

    >and he was aware of serious people that disputed the event.

    Problem number 1: There are no serious people who doubt the moon landing. Only grade 1 nutbars. Craig has a problem distinguishing serious people from nutbars.

    >He then said it didn’t really interest him to know one way or the other

    Problem number 2: Complete lack of intellectual curiosity. Armstrong and Aldrin pull off one of the most significant achievements in human history, an achievement that will be remembered 1000 years from now when all of our politics and wars and politicians have been long forgotten… and Craig really isn’t interested enough to determine whether the documented facts or the nutbars are right? Forget having Craig as an MP… I wouldn’t trust him to teach in a primary school.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    I don’t agree tvb.

    The COnsv vote comes from across the board based on issues, and includes socially conservative Labourites and Pasifika and a high disaffected National vote. Those voters do not want to vote National anymore, so claiming they would denies the political developments going on here and in UK amongst Center-Right voters. National has abandoned a significant chunk of its core and moved to being a social progressive/liberal party. Nothing wrong with that, except that (like Labour to the Greens) National can expect to bleed off some core support to anew entity that better represents them. That is why the NZ Consvs have appeared.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    This is also why Colin Craig is attacking National on consistency. He is pitching for labour votes as well as National.

    Davidp, I think you’re straining at gnats on the moon stuff. Craig believes men landed on the moon; the rest is media/beltway nonsense.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. ciaron (1,309 comments) says:

    Well davidp, I think when NZ has a space program, then Colin’s failing to give a damn might be relevant.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. notrotsky (59 comments) says:

    Sorry Red, Craig’s a complete numpty.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. Rex Widerstrom (5,253 comments) says:

    altiora says:

    But I guess that is too much work for CC; a seat for life is so much more attractive.

    And another dilettante politician, transfixed by the shiny baubles he’s given and his own reflection in the mirror, is the last thing NZ needs.

    Redbaiter says:

    Get one back on the smug intolerant bastards who seek to make NZ a one party state.

    Vote for outsider Colin Craig.

    Except that sentiment applied to Clive Palmer (another rich dilettante who succeeded in buying a seat or two) has caused an enormous headache for Tony Abbott’s conservative agenda. Because in essence, all such people want is a cosy sinecure for life, unearned respect arising from being able to add “MP” to the end of their name, and the glare of the TV lights.

    People thought Palmer’s policies didn’t matter either, it was all about sticking it to a corrupt Labor government without supporting a lacklustre Liberal opposition… right up to the point he got into a position where he could start demanding their implementation.

    And then there’s the danger of the complete and utter dimwits such people bring into Parliament with them.

    David Garrett says:

    I have been concerned forever about the calibre of advice Colin is getting…doesn’t sound like it’s getting any better…

    Undoubtedly, but last I heard he chose to be advised by some wet-behind-the-ears PR girl with no real political experience. Like Rudd, who surrounded himself with 30-somethings with a bit of electronic media experience and little knowledge of the real world or voters’ thinking, the advisors may be to blame for the advice, but the Leader is to blame for the advisors.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. Judith (7,448 comments) says:

    Colin Craig believes men landed on the moon, and doesn’t believe in vapor trail conspiracies

    That’s Nice.

    But he does believe in altering legislation based on the results of a poor and inadequately worded referendum.

    John Key did the right thing, no matter how unpopular it was by ignoring that referendum. He did the sort of thing we expect a person in his position to do, and that is to realise that unless the document is sufficiently robust, it is better ignored. It is one of the things I do respect about Key, that he didn’t buy into the crap being offered in that situation.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. Pete George (22,719 comments) says:

    @LIVENewsDesk

    Key says Colin Craig’s comments about an electoral deal with National have been full of contradictions.

    @mcquillanatorz

    Key says McCully will be “Security Council-ing” for most of the election campaign

    @CTrevettNZH

    Will be robust debates in East Coast Bays this election: McCully will be overseas for most the campaign.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. SGA (800 comments) says:

    ciaron at 3:09 pm

    He then said it didn’t really interest him to know one way or the other

    Well davidp, I think when NZ has a space program, then Colin’s failing to give a damn might be relevant.

    Really? Surely you have a little more interest in the world at large than that? (I’d like to think that Colin Craig does as well).

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. Inky_the_Red (734 comments) says:

    I can’t see why any party would do a deal with a party that is only going to get 1 seat unless that seat is going to be an overhang seat. As the seat comes off the total of 120 seats. Generally that seat will come off the largest party.

    A deal with the conservatives makes more sense than one with United Future as they will bring in more than 1 MP. If they get 4 I would expect those 4 seats to be lost by Nats (2), Labour (1) , Green (1) so gain of 2 to the right

    A deal with ACT or UF could easily make no change. With both you might expect a +1 to the right but I am not convinced Act will win a seat

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. altiora (200 comments) says:

    iMP: If CC is attacking National to obtain Labour votes, why the hell is trying to contest ECB (one of the bluest seats) where Labour voters must be pretty thin on the ground?

    Why not contest a marginal seat where he could demonstrate his purported ability to pull in socially conservative Labour voters without compromising National’s ability to obtain maximum seats?

    Again, I can’t but help think that CC is really after a secure fief for himself.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. Harriet (4,495 comments) says:

    “…….Why not contest a marginal seat where he could demonstrate his purported ability to pull in socially conservative Labour voters without compromising National’s ability to obtain maximum seats?…..”

    Firstly Altoria, ECB would have plenty of social consevatives, and secondly, what is your point of having ‘more National’ ?

    In the last 6yrs Key TOOK National to the center – the center never went to National. There has been no change for center/swing voters.

    If anything – labour has got worse which has created the difference – National hasn’t got any better!

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. mike tan (433 comments) says:

    It would be interesting to know if the number of votes Labour is losing to the centre exceeds the number of votes it is losing to the left. If Labour is losing more votes to the centre, it follows that National should stay within this region to keep picking up these votes, if more votes are being lost to the left (i think this is the case) then there is less risk involved in a case where National moves closer towards the CP.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. altiora (200 comments) says:

    Harriet: National already holds the seat, so what’s the point? Better to take a seat off Labour, not your purported ally. And the point was not whether there were social conservatives, but rather LABOUR social conservatives.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. ciaron (1,309 comments) says:

    SGA,
    I find the space program run in the 60′s to be very fascinating, and what those men and women achieved was truly heroic. In fact I wish I had more time to read and research the wealth of information out there about it. Colin Craig doesn’t seem to share our enthusiasm, but I fail to see why that should be a black mark against him.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. SGA (800 comments) says:

    ciaron at 7:46 pm

    Colin Craig doesn’t seem to share our enthusiasm, but I fail to see why that should be a black mark against him.

    Actually, I think your comment damned Colin Craig far more than anything I’ve said. The idea that Colin Craig doesn’t have a halfway decent opinion about the Apollo missions because NZ doesn’t have its own space programme makes him look more of an idiot than I hope he is. Please read my previous post from that perspective.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. Than (425 comments) says:

    If Colin Craig is saying he doesn’t want an “endorsement”, but a full withdrawal, then National can more easily say, “No”.

    Colin Craig has probably done some polling and determined that an endorsement alone wouldn’t be enough. Too many National supporters wouldn’t vote for him even if the party asked them to.

    On the scale of MMP electorate manipulations, McCully withdrawing would be right up there as one of the most despicable. It would be an attempt to actively subvert the democratic wishes of the voters of ECB, forcing them to elect a candidate most of them do not want.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  91. ciaron (1,309 comments) says:

    SGA,

    I don’t understand your last point. I’m not saying he doesn’t have an opinion because we don’t have a space program, I’m saying his opinion would be relevant if we had a space program, and even very loosely at that. It would be like saying he can’t be minister of Police because he doesn’t have an opinion on whether Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated John F Kennedy, and that sounds a bit silly… doesn’t it?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  92. Pete George (22,719 comments) says:

    Craig’s vague responses to questions like moon landings and chemtrails are symptoms of a bigger issue – an apparent lack of depth to his thinking.

    The main focus of the Conservative Party is to diss National. Negatives don’t promote well.

    The headline policies of this campaign will be:

    1. That referendum become binding on government,
    2. That we stop dividing the country on the basis of race. All New Zealanders should have equal rights and privileges under the law
    3. That we stop discounting justice. Those who commit crimes do the time they are sentenced to, with longer sentences for violent crimes, and a requirement that prisoner’s do some hard work to repay victims and society.
    4. Simplify the tax system, closing loop holes, and the introduction of a tax free threshold that provides a tax break for all New Zealanders, not just the wealthy.>/blockquote>
    That sounds like wishy-washy attempts at a getting attention from a handful of populist issues.

    The issues on the Conservative website are brief and mostly vague – http://www.conservativeparty.org.nz/index.php?page=Issues

    ‘Stand for something’ is also vague, especially when it’s difficult to see what Craig actually stands for.

    Can anyone say with any certainty or clarity what he stands for? Can anyone say what the Conservatives stand for?

    What is your position on chemtrails?
    Our Party has no formal position on chemtrails.

    I am aware of the theory that chemicals are being released at high altitude for some nefarious purpose but don’t know whether there is any truth in this or not.

    Craig’s words.

    I am aware of the theory that conservatives are being released for some political purpose but don’t know whether there is any substance to this or not.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  93. ciaron (1,309 comments) says:

    Pete,
    At the moment we have Labour making up policy on the trot, saying what seems good at the time (how’s that working out for them?) and bugger all from National. The campaign began a few days ago, so I expect to see the detail fleshed out over the coming weeks from all parties… The game is on.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  94. stephieboy (2,128 comments) says:

    Not a good look on Paul Henry last night and the sample of East Cost Bay voters last night were decidedly under whelmed and unimpressed by Collin Craig and his party.
    There is definitely an image problem and he could at least pay a visit to Peter Dunne’s hairdresser for starters.I think the CP need to somehow shake off that cranky moon bat ambience that you do find among most of their supporters here on KB.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  95. ChardonnayGuy (1,130 comments) says:

    Hmmmm. Well, it looks as if ACT are starting to apply the borax when it comes to the Conservative Party’s ‘fiscal conservatism’ claims. Take a look at this media release on the Scoop website…

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1406/S00378/craig-cant-count.htm

    According to ACT’s Jamie Whyte:

    “The tax policy Colin Craig announced yesterday will increase income tax for everyone who earns more than $36,000. That is almost everyone in full time employment.

    Craig’s policy is to make the first $20,000 of income tax free and then impose a flat rate after that. But, astonishingly, he doesn’t say what that flat rate would be. Perhaps he hasn’t worked it out.

    Well, we have. The flat rate applied above Craig’s $20,000 tax-free threshold would have to be 33.6%. That’s higher than the current top rate of income tax which kicks in at $70,000.

    The fact that ACT has had to calculate what Craig’s own flat rate would be reveals the frivolity with which Craig and his Conservatives approach public policy. They want you to vote for them on the basis of their tax policy. But they do not bother to tell you what rate of tax you would end up paying.”

    “The marginal tax rate will increase for anyone earning over $20,000. For those earning between $20,000 and $48,000, it will increase dramatically: from 17.5% to 33.6%.”

    “Our alternative Budget also treats our audience with more respect than the Conservatives do. It provides the rationale, details and calculations that anyone would need to understand and evaluate our tax policy. The Conservatives’ policy is so half-baked that we have had to work out their flat rate for them.

    Craig should be embarrassed. And voters should steer clear of this man and his party. Politics shouldn’t be a game for wealthy buffoons.”

    Thank you, Jamie. Centre-right friends of mine have expressed concern to me about the lack of adequately costed policies on the Con Party website as well, and it’s good to see some independent verification of that by your party. Well, that makes two of National’s current coalition partners who seem to be balking at working with Colin Craig and his Conjob Party…

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  96. altiora (200 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy: there is no “ambiance” at all; they are cranky moon bats hyped up on feelings of betrayal and obsessions with past battles lost. I would think the proper remedy is attending some “primal scream therapy” session rather than founding a political party.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  97. altiora (200 comments) says:

    The biggest failing after sloppy policy (if it can be called that) is that CC and co suffer from the delusion that they are the “silent majority” who are just itching to come out of the woodwork when the Prophet Colin lets the last trumpet sound. It’s sort of like Labour and its “missing million” voters meme. Quite why National would even entertain giving up a safe seat to let CC in, I don’t know. It will be John Banks and Epsom all over again: the promised extra seats will not materialise or they obtain one or two and these evaporate in the election after the next. If CC is so confident that he’ll pull into non-National voters, why isn’t he standing in an electorate with lots of non-National voters (as opposed to deep blue ECB)? Of course, even questioning the Prophet’s strategy results in many down votes!

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  98. Unity (265 comments) says:

    It is quite beyond my comprehension why people keep banging on about chemtrails, landings on the moon and whether or not they are true or happend, with regard to the Conservative Party. This has all been a result of media hype and has been blown up out of all proportion and no longer resembles the original conversation. Who cares about chemtrails and moon landings, and I’m sure CC doesn’t.

    We should all be more interested in what is happening in this country and what is needed. There are two extremely important policies that I require in a Party and that is the introduction of binding referenda and an end to racial preference which has lead to apartheid in this country. We need to all be treated the same under the law and any special treatment should be based on need, not race. So, if the Conservatives are the only Party to offer these as their bottom line, then they will get my Party vote!! However, I’m waiting until closer to the election and hoping others will also show some common sense as well as doing what’s necessarey for us to have a democracy which at the moment we only have once every 3 years.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  99. altiora (200 comments) says:

    @ Unity: how long will you support binding referenda when that process gets highjacked by well funded leftist parties and lobby groups using the process to implement all sorts of emotionally-driven and redistributive policies? Think about: imagine National comes to their senses next term and decides to reduce or remove Working for Families and interest-free student loans. Would be quite easy for the leftists to obtain a referendum result against the change given so many voters in this country think it perfectly acceptable to vote themselves access to others’ money.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  100. Unity (265 comments) says:

    Altiora, if you check the Swiss system, it has worked extremely well there for over 140 years. It allows the people to have a voice and the politicians couldn’t ignore us as they currently do. Well funded leftist Parties would have nothing to do with it. If the people feel strongly enough about something they will take part. I’m sure if in the beginning wacky decisions arose because of apathy, the people would very quickly sit up and take notice and realise they must do their bit, otherwise they will have no comeback.

    An interesting site to go into is http://www.100days.co.nz/. The Swiss have the only true democracy in the World.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  101. ChardonnayGuy (1,130 comments) says:

    Ah, like subsidising heroin and maintaining access to Zurich’s Dignitas euthanasia services, Unity?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  102. altiora (200 comments) says:

    The problem Unity is that the Swiss are not addicted to welfare payments; they are a prosperous nation with a well established culture of hard work and independence. This was Hayek’s observation in the Road to Serfdom: democracy is destroyed as people become increasingly reliant on the state for income; they cease to be autonomous entities who can vote for what is right.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  103. Changeiscoming (133 comments) says:

    ChardonnayGuy – While I do agree with some parts of the ACT press release about the Conservatives tax policy some of the assumptions that are made a flawed and false assumptions. Unfortunately there is also way too much political spin for the media release to be taken seriously.

    Take the emotion, name calling and the opinion out of it and let the facts speak for themselves if ACT want to be taken seriously.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  104. Unity (265 comments) says:

    I feel sure that if we can get much of the Government out of our lives, improvements will be made in the running of our country. There are many people who don’t bother to get out there and vote because they know the politicians will take absolutely no notice of what they want. Not a good reason, I know, but that would be the case with many. If they felt they could have a say, I’m sure there would be a huge sea change in this problem.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  105. ChardonnayGuy (1,130 comments) says:

    CiC: You state that the assumptions that are made in Jamie Whyte’s media release are “flawed and false” assumptions. Please elaborate, because I think Whyte *has* made an excellent and quite legitimate point about the total absence of properly costed estimates for the public policies that the Conservatives are advancing. I would encourage ACT to take this further than criticising the Conservatives for their income tax policies. What about other potentially expensive and similarly uncosted Conservative policies?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  106. Changeiscoming (133 comments) says:

    ChardonnayGuy – Let me first state that I am not a party insider so I can’t speak for the Conservative party. But I do follow what they say.

    The ACT media release states the following: “Since Craig proposes no changes to other taxes nor any specific changes to government spending, we must proceed on the assumption that income tax will still raise $29.8 billion.”

    This is completely false – if you followed what the Conservatives have said repeatedly is that they will look to balance the books and cut spending, getting the middle class off welfare and they have also said they will increase the tax on alcohol.

    I can only guess at why they didn’t release the tax rate, maybe it is unknown to them because they don’t know the detail of the Govt books.

    Also I think that it is a good idea for a flat tax it certainly has provided significant economic growth for countries that have implemented it. What is the ACT parties proposed flat tax rate?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.