Espiner on Dotcom

June 2nd, 2014 at 2:00 pm by David Farrar

Colin Espiner writes:

The media was expecting Dotcom’s Internet Party would announce a flake as its new leader. Or a complete moron. Either would have done just fine. We could have ridiculed them, and moved on to more important matters.

But Harre isn’t a flake. And she’s certainly no moron. She’s one of the most driven, persuasive and intelligent politicians I’ve met. I don’t know how Dotcom managed to put a ring on the darling of the Left but on the face of it, it’s a major coup.

The question, though, is for who?

Harre is an old-school socialist. She’s from a trades union background. She’s a former member of the Labour Party, of New Labour, and of the Alliance Party. She’s most recently worked for the Green Party. …

On the face of it, then, Harre is likely to appeal to older Lefties who admire her feminist principles and strong trade union credentials.

It’s hard to see her appeal to young, internet-savvy geeks though. Last time Harre was in Parliament the internet was barely out of short pants. And the people she’s trying to persuade to vote for her weren’t born and certainly wouldn’t know her from a 33K dial-up modem.

But does it matter? Probably not. As long as Harre gets votes, neither the Internet Party nor Mana will care where they come from. And she’s got $3 million of Dotcom’s money to spend – that’s more than any other party contesting the election, including Colin Craig’s Conservatives.

On the face of it, the Left has engineered a spectacular reverse takeover of Dotcom’s party. It’s like a reunion of every failed candidate from every disappeared political party of the past 20 years, funded by an avowed capitalist whose fundamental philosophy – the freedom of movement of capital and people – runs counter to everything his candidates stand for.

Exactly. Dotcom is just funding a party to change the Government. His personal political beliefs and Harre’s are vastly different. There nothing wrong with large political donors – but generally they donate to a party or leader whose policies they agree with.

But remember, Dotcom doesn’t really care. His political aims are pragmatic, not philosophical.

In my opinion, there are two reasons why Dotcom is manipulating the political process. First, he wants rid of Prime Minister John Key. Second, he doesn’t want to spend the rest of his life in a United States penitentiary. If the Internet-Mana party is elected with more than a couple of MPs, then Dotcom is likely to achieve the first objective.

There is no possibility the party could side with National. So a vote for Internet-Mana is a vote for a Labour-Green-Internet-Mana-and-possibly-New Zealand First-Government.

Remember that. It would be the most left wing Government in our history.

The Internet-Mana party may also either confuse or scare the bejesus out voters and strengthen National’s hand. Blue-collar, socially conservative, Labour-leaning voters – who’d only just got their heads around the idea of dealing with the Greens – may not countenance their vote ushering in a potential coalition led by far-Left feminist and Maori radicals.

I think there is already a backlash, which is why several Labour MPs have spoken out against the Internet-Mana alliance.

In her acceptance speech of the Internet Party leadership last week, Harre admitted her party was gaming the MMP system in a bid to get into Parliament. But she said it was “time for New Zealanders to take back MMP”.

It was a nice line, with a ring of socialist rhetoric to it. But nothing could be farther from the truth. The Internet-Mana party may be successful or it may fall flat on its face.

But it is Dotcom who is attempting to take over MMP. And it is for no-one but himself.

On one of the weekend TV shows, Harre referred to the Internet Party having 30 to 40 staff. That is a huge amount. On top of that Harre and all the candidates will be on pro-rata $150,000 per year salaries. I suspect Dotcom will end up putting more than $4 million in. Whatever it takes to change the Government and increase his chances of not getting extradited.

And if Harre really think Dotcom won’t want any favours for his $4 million. Well think about this. Is he the type of person who would donate $50,000 to a candidate, and then ring him up when in jail wanting him to intervene with prison authorities to get him a pillow – and when no assistance is offered – vows to crush and destroy him.

If he’ll do that when someone who receives $50,000 from him won’t intervene with authorities to assist him – just imagine what his expectations are for a $4 million donation?

Tags: ,

143 Responses to “Espiner on Dotcom”

  1. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    There’s no proof that extradition is a part of any political deal. Dotcom has denied it – Dotcom says Minister would be wrong to overrule courts on his extradition. Andrew Little has said Labour wouldn’t deal on it – Labour will not negotiate on Dotcom’s extradition.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Spam (588 comments) says:

    Weren’t dot coms assets frozen? Does New Zealand have a “proceeds of crime” act, and what happens if he gets found guilty? Should mana be nervous?

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. wreck1080 (3,906 comments) says:

    seems rather corrupt behaviour to me.

    Cash for an agreement not to extradite.

    Vote: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    There is no possibility the party could side with National. So a vote for Internet-Mana is a vote for a Labour-Green-Internet-Mana-and-possibly-New Zealand First-Government.

    That’s written into the Memorandun of Understanding between the Internet Party and Mana.

    D: Government Formation

    11. To publicly and formally commit in writing that all candidates from both component parties, if elected to Parliament, will not support the formation or ongoing operation of any government that includes the National Party.

    Similar to the Greens that gives IMP low negotiating power unless Labour has no choice but use them to make up it’s coalition numbers.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. s.russell (1,642 comments) says:

    Whenever I get into a conversation about politics now, there is one word that comes up consistently: circus. And I hear positive comments about National from surprising sources, especially re the economy.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. JC (955 comments) says:

    Extradition might or might not be the major consideration but just as likely is an uncanny likeness to the plot from the film”The Visit”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Visit_%281964_film%29

    The plot..

    “Claire (often known as Clara) Zachanassian (Ingrid Bergman), a fabulously wealthy woman, returns to a decaying village she had been forced to leave years earlier in disgrace. She had a child by Serge Miller (Anthony Quinn), who denied paternity. Her purpose in this “visit” is to make a deal with the inhabitants — in exchange for a vast sum of money, she wants Miller killed.

    At first reluctant, they eventually accept the arrangement and Miller is condemned to death. At the last moment, Clara stops the execution and tells the citizens that they will have to live with the guilt of what they might have done for the rest of their lives.”

    A nice little tale of revenge that seems appropriate here.

    JC

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. eszett (2,408 comments) says:

    And if Harre really think Dotcom won’t want any favours for his $4 million. Well think about this. Is he the type of person who would donate $50,000 to a candidate, and then ring him up when in jail wanting him to intervene with prison authorities to get him a pillow – and when no assistance is offered – vows to crush and destroy him.

    If he’ll do that when someone who receives $50,000 from him won’t intervene with authorities to assist him – just imagine what his expectations are for a $4 million donation?

    So you admit that people who donate large sums of money to political parties usually want something for their money?

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “and certainly wouldn’t know her from a 33K dial-up modem.”

    hmm not sure i remember 33k modems.. i remember 14.4k.. 28.8k.. 56k.. i guess 33k existed somewhere.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Well think about this. Is he the type of person who would donate $50,000 to a candidate, and then ring him up when in jail wanting him to intervene with prison authorities to get him a pillow – and when no assistance is offered – vows to crush and destroy him.

    The example only works if you are prepared to believe that Laila Harre would buy into that sort of crap – and that is where the statement fails, because for all she is, and has been, and even though she supports the left – she is not the type of person that would play that game, especially knowing that everyone (well at least all the Kiwibloggers) will be watching and waiting for her to do just that.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 14 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Laila doesn’t have to know about the ins and outs of the internet. There is nothing young computer geeks would like better than to be able to show their knowledge by telling her what they know. In fact, her lack of knowledge could actually work to win their attention, and vote.

    Young people just love being able to laud their expertise over others – especially important people. All she has to do is act very impressed with what they know and she’s got them eating out of her hands.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Harre is no more able than Dotcom to dictate any position the Internet Party might take on the extradition or any other policy or issue position. She is one person in a party that claims to follow democratic processes.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. Fisiani (1,039 comments) says:

    Did Kim Dot Com ever come into legally gained money. Is his wealth all from illegal sources. If so are the Internet party 40 funded staff and perhaps 20 funded candidates benefitting from the proceeeds of crime.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    The crazy thing of course is that National is the party which has driven the advance of fibre to every home( except the out blocks) and it’s internet speed what we all scream about wanting.
    Also their restructuring of the telecom industry has driven internet costs down and set it up so costs will go lower still.
    What else is there? Free tickets to gaming conferences?
    All the Nats need to do us remind our youth of that. Young people (in the main) aren’t stupid and they will see IMP as being pointless in that regard.
    Has anyone seen what IMP are specifically offering? Apart from cash for yesterday’s socialists and no extradition for their master.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. MikeG (425 comments) says:

    after a sensible reasoned post about the Green’s carbon tax we are now back to Farrar’s ‘blinded by ideology’ posts –

    “It would be the most left wing Government in our history.” really?

    “Dotcom is just funding a party to change the Government” – far out, I didn’t realise that’s what opposition parties did!

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 12 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    I think DotCom’s purpose in coming to NZ was to be a big fish in a small pond – because he couldn’t have the same level of influence in any moderately large wealthy democracy. Getting rid of JK aside from petty revenge is just one of his vanity projects.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. Nostalgia-NZ (5,195 comments) says:

    If it is true that Banks turned a deaf ear to Dotcom’s call for help, it seems odd that he’d entrust his potential liberty to any other NZ politician. Though if he did, how could he possibly legally action any so called ‘promise’ that would be binding. I think Espiner is possibly right about the left using the situation to get back into power but it’s none of the new players (now members of the IP) that were pulling the strings as clearly they didn’t appear to know about who was additionally being appointed to the new team. McCarten still looks most likely, but on the other hand it would be his recent re-introduction to Labour that might best tell the story. Cunliffe appears to have pointedly avoided Dotcom, could it be that he was bright and discreet enough to engineer this from further afield – or does DC have a strategist that helped him find his way in. Despite predictions of it all ending in tears, it’s a pretty trim ship at the moment but where it is sailing to, or likely to land is fairly intriguing.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Manolo (13,753 comments) says:

    The hiring of Harre’s goes to show the depth of the pockets of the German fraudster.

    It was enough for him to produce a wad of dollars for the political prostitutes of the left (Corkery, Harre, Minto) and the racist thugs from Mana (Harawhira) to flock to his side.

    A prime example of political corruption for all New Zealand to see.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Getting rid of JK aside from petty revenge is just one of his vanity projects.

    That may be so, but its a project that many hope he is successful at – the only question is, are there enough that think that way?

    Of course you could always turn the argument round, and say that some New Zealanders are encouraging and using Dotcom’s private battle to achieve what they want.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 12 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. SHG (316 comments) says:

    Judith said: “There is nothing young computer geeks would like better than to be able to show their knowledge by telling her what they know.”

    yeah because there’s nothing young geeks like more than to be free tech support for tech-illiterate old people. They live for that shit.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. minus (193 comments) says:

    Here, want to try to figure out how much Internet / Mana can spend?
    And if Mana or Internet as individual Parties can spend anything at all?

    206C Maximum amount of party’s total election expenses
    (1) If a party is listed in the part of the ballot paper that relates
    to the party vote, the total election expenses of that party in
    respect of any regulated period must not exceed—

    (a) $1,091,000 (or such other amount as is prescribed by the
    Governor-General by Order in Council under section
    266A); and

    (b) $25,700 (or such other amount as is prescribed by the
    Governor-General by Order in Council under section
    266A) for each electoral district contested by a candi-
    date for the party.

    (2) If a party is not listed in the part of the ballot paper that relates
    to the party vote, the total election expenses of that party in
    respect of any regulated period must not exceed $25,700 for
    each electoral district contested by a candidate for the party.

    (3) The amounts in subsections (1) and (2) are inclusive of goods
    and services tax.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. fernglas (157 comments) says:

    Dotcom’s New Zealand assets are presently frozen as part of a US restraining order registered in our High Court, albeit subject to appeal. So where is the money coming from? Not his family trust, by the looks of it. A declaration the party filed showed the money coming from Dotcom himself.
    Not only that, but there is a strong prima facie case that his funds are derived from criminal activity. If the Internet/Mana grouping uses his money in that knowledge then they are likely to commit the criminal offence of money laundering. Not a good look for a bunch who claim to have principles.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    Harre is no more able than Dotcom to dictate any position the Internet Party might take on the extradition or any other policy or issue position. She is one person in a party that claims to follow democratic processes.

    .. that is beholden to a single individual who purchased the alliance they will need to coattail into parliament.

    Until I see a credible description of why Dotcom is funding a political party with objectives completely contrary to his revealed beliefs, I will continue to believe the most reasonable assumption. He is spending money in his own personal interest.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    yeah because there’s nothing young geeks like more than to be free tech support for tech-illiterate old people. They live for that shit.

    This. So fucking hard this.

    The picture of the tech “geek” who desperately wants to impress other people is so out of touch with reality.

    Hackers want the respect of their peers, not authority figures.

    And especially not authority figures who are themselves desperate for the approval of them!

    God, I hope she uses a meme from last year. That would be awesome.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ SHG (330 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    no one said ‘they lived for that shit’ but if she showed an interest, there are many that would happily show her – no, not all of them are hackers – to try and claim that those who would support the party, must be – is sheer ignorance.

    They are not going to vote for the IP because the leader knows more about technology, or even the same as them. It’s ridiculous to think they would – not to mention insulting to them. It is the promises regarding better access etc that will impress them – and Harre does not need to know the technical stuff about that – you’re kidding yourselves if you think for one minute her lack to technical expertise will make the slightest difference. What she doesn’t know, some clued up kid will gladly show her – as they do for many other technophobes, regularly.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    Do you know what a hacker is?

    It is the promises regarding better access etc that will impress them – and Harre does not need to know the technical stuff about that – you’re kidding yourselves if you think for one minute her lack to technical expertise will make the slightest difference.

    What does access mean?

    If she can’t describe it. Then the policy will fall on deaf ears.

    What she doesn’t know, some clued up kid will gladly show her – as they do for many other technophobes, regularly.

    Spoken like a true old technophobe.

    This isn’t the same thing as learning how to send email, or move pictures off your phone. The ‘internet’ and internet issues are a lot more complicated than that.

    Technologically literate people will not accept, let alone embrace, platitudes from morons who don’t know what they are talking about.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kimble (4,219 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 3:45 pm

    Yes I do – and I know many excellent young techno savvy people who are not ‘hackers’, but are more than willing to sort out my technical problems whenever I ask.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 12 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kimble (4,219 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 3:45 pm

    All she has to do is read it off a piece of paper.

    Do you seriously think that John Key understands the technical crap behind ever one of his policies too? Does he for example understand how vaccines his government fund, work within the biological system to block the virus etc? Could he explain that in detail ?

    “If HE can’t, then the policy will fall on deaf ears” :-)

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 14 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. kowtow (8,444 comments) says:

    …….would announce a flake as its new leader……..but Harre is not a flake……..

    ……..she’s been a member of labour, New labour,the Alliance and has recently worked for the greens……

    She’s a flake.

    Vote: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. SHG (316 comments) says:

    Do you seriously think that John Key understands the technical crap behind ever one of his policies too? Does he for example understand how vaccines his government fund, work within the biological system to block the virus etc? Could he explain that in detail ?

    Last time I looked John Key wasn’t leader of the Biotech Party and campaigning on providing free biotech services to NZers in an attempt to gain the votes of disaffected young biotech workers.

    Vote: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ SHG (331 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 3:51 pm

    No he isn’t. He is leader of a party who campaigns on much more than BioTech – so therefore going by the argument that a party leader must have intricate knowledge of what they are proposing – Key would need to know much much more – about everything !!

    So, do you think John Key can tell us all the technical details of any new equipment that his government buys for the Army? Perhaps he could tell his the technical information behind the equipment the GCSB uses to spy on us? and so on…

    And all without reading it off a piece of paper, and applying the same standards you are expecting from Harre – to understand it.

    “If she [HE] can’t the policy will fall on deaf ears” – Kimble
    If you are going to expect one party leader to have this sort of knowledge, then at least apply the same standard to your own.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 18 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. tvb (4,418 comments) says:

    There is only one circus and that is the possible Labour lead coalition Government. I think people will hold their noses and vote National because they do not want a multi headed Government with Kim Dotcom in the background. Watch all those ageing lefties coming on board for the $3million including that dreadful old warhorse Pam Corkery just makes me vomit. They are really and truly past their use-by date.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. holysheet (385 comments) says:

    do you actually read what you post before you hit the submit button Judith??

    Comparing harre and her lack of knowledge of how the internet works, with asking if Key knows how vaccines work is just dumb.
    For starters key is not standing for the vaccine party, or the how vaccines work party. But Harree is standing for the Internet party and is supposed to know how it works. It’s no good saying I have computers at home and my husband knows how to use them, therefor I am suited to talk about the internet to the young voters.

    Most young internet users are far more knowledgeable than that. If I was that age again, and someone was trying to get my vote by appealing to my youthful interests, then I would expect them to at least know something about what it is that might be of interest to me, instead of cheap paltitudes and taking my vote for granted.

    Vote: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    Yes I do – and I know many excellent young techno savvy people who are not ‘hackers’,

    What is a hacker then?

    Lets hear it.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ holysheet (217 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    NO, key is not standing for the Internet Party, he is standing for a party that covers much more than just the internet (but then so is the Internet Party, but we’ll ignore that for now)

    The premise is presented by you people that in order to be the leader of a party – the person must understand all that they are dealing with, that is, what that party promotes, and has policies for. Therefore my comments are pertinent – the National party has policies for many things, and campaigns its interests are generic – therefore applying your standards, Mr Key, your leader would need to understand ALL those things.

    I can understand your desire to wriggle out of this one – but you are being hypocritical, and extremely picky. You are attempting to find a reason to discredit Ms Harre, and yet, when the same measure is applied to your leader, it is blatantly obvious he doesn’t stack up (and neither should he have to – that is what advisors are for).

    So, why can’t Ms Harre use advisors just like Mr Key. And why is it wrong for her to do that – when it’s acceptable for Key to do it?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ kimble

    What you don’t know? Why don’t you just look it up?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. holysheet (385 comments) says:

    But JK is not standing for a one issue party, is he?.
    So therefore he’s not expected to have more than a working knowledge of the partys policies. Unlike Harree who is standing as the leader of a one policy party, you would expect her to have in depth knowledge of the one policy she will be speaking on and trying to convince the young internet savy users she is the one to vote for.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. Southern Raider (1,829 comments) says:

    Why does every journalist and political commentator talk about how intelligent she is.

    FFS she backs a communist cause and has most likely wasted the inheritance she got. She’s like a first class moron to me.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ holysheet (218 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 4:19 pm

    Just because it is called the internet party, doesn’t mean that is their only interest. They have already indicated they will have more than just one policy and have more than just one interest – but you choose to ignore that because it doesn’t suite your rhetoric – that’s fine but it shows you to be not just ignorant, but hypocritical.

    You are applying a standard to one person, that you are not happy to apply to your own.

    If you for one minute think that the Internet Party will be only targeting young internet savy users, I feel really sorry for you – because you are delusional. If the selection of Laila doesn’t provide you with the hints that your premise is wrong, nothing ever will.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Southern Raider (1,444 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 4:22 pm

    …and has most likely wasted the inheritance she got

    Do you actually know how much money she has, or are you just ‘ASSuming’ you do, and using that assumption as a judgment measure? In which case, I’d be looking at your own intelligence level.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. SHG (316 comments) says:

    3 INTERNET PARTY OBJECTIVES

    3.1 The objectives of The Internet Party are:
    3.1.1. To promote and enhance New Zealand’s successful transition into a leader of the digital era; and
    3.1.2. To promote and increase the value of digital commerce; and
    3.1.3. To promote and support a Bill of Digital Rights for all New Zealanders; and
    3.1.4. To benefit New Zealand’s cultural and social development by enhancing New Zealand’s digital connectedness; and
    3.1.5. To ensure that a just, equitable and transparent balance exists between personal online privacy and digital connectedness; and
    3.1.6. To champion the freedom of access, use, and delivery of the internet and digital communications in New Zealand; and
    3.1.7. To promote the New Zealand government adopting digital means of communicating and to advocate for the establishment of open and e-government solutions for all New Zealanders; and
    3.1.8. Increase transparency and accountability within New Zealand’s security and intelligence agencies and organisations; and
    3.1.9. To actively encourage the participation of young people in New Zealand’s democratic process.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. holysheet (385 comments) says:

    If you are calling me delusional for pointing out how stupid your argument is Judith, the you really do need all the help you can get.
    With such a short time to go before the election I would have thought they would have produced more policies by now. But they havn’t got any, or if they have, why aren’t we discussing them?

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    You left these out: –

    3.2To support the objectives in 3.1, the Internet Party will also maintain and promote economic, cultural, social, ethnic, age and gender diversity and equality within the membership, candidacy and organisational structure of the Internet Party.

    3.3To achieve the objectives in 3.1, the Internet Party will strive to elect competent men and women to the New Zealand Parliament.

    3.4To achieve the objectives in 3.1, the Internet Party may enter into arrangements, including component party arrangements, with other parties or organisations.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. Southern Raider (1,829 comments) says:

    How the hell does Harre fit into 3.3 or is there a new definition of competent?

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ holysheet (219 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 4:32 pm

    They have only just appointed their leader, give them a chance – (I realise that is too much to ask, and that National Lackies feel they have to work very quickly to discredit the party before IP gains any support)

    As I said, I think you’re delusional – as in, I think you are deluded if you think the IP party is only intending to address internet access. Their objectives suggests more.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 16 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    We get it Judith. You’ll defend anyone, and I mean anyone, or anything that places themselves in opposition to John Key.

    Any post, any subject, positive or negative, your position is predictable.

    Vote: Thumb up 19 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    I can even predict what you’ll say next.

    “A national supporter like you just doesn’t understand….”

    You’re just too smart and insightful Judith. You’re the ultimate FIGJAM

    Vote: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Zapper (876 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 4:40 pm

    Whilst you on the other hand always offer objective and sensible comments about all political parties and never demonstrate any bias whatsoever!! (Hypocrite).

    And you are the ultimate Prick. But hey, you’re in good company!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 16 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Judith, anyone who said what she said on Q&A and meant it, and she did, does not deserve to be elected to the board of their local school, let alone be president of a political party that wants to be taken seriously. Basically she said politics these days has become misfocused and what we need to start doing is finding out what people want and then worrying about how we’re going to pay for it once that’s been established. It’s true. That is exactly what she said. I have not mistranslated anything at all. Watch the interview if you haven’t already.

    Now that’s simply ridiculous. I’m sorry, but it is. And anyone who says that and holds it as a serious proposition in the political arena deserves to be ridiculed for holding such a juvenile, palpably idiotic moronic childish mindset on such a serious matter.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    Well done for providing exactly the kind of response I said you would give, with some personal abuse thrown in.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. holysheet (385 comments) says:

    In that list posted above about the IP objectives, is there anything NOT related to the internet and the digital age and how it operates?
    Once again, it is a one policy party and I would expect it’s leader to be up with the play.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Reid (15,794 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 4:42 pm

    So you think that politics today, is focused on what the people want? I don’t.

    As far as the rest of her comment, it seems a bit of an ask to provide it and then worry about how we are going to pay for it, but then when you look at the amount of debt we have incurred over the last few years, it appears that the government is already providing things, and then worrying about payment, so the concept isn’t exactly a foreign one. The only difference to Laila’s policy is that it would actually be providing what the people (and I presume she means a consensus or close to, of what the people want) – as opposed to what the 1% ers and wannabe 1%ers want.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 14 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ holysheet (220 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 4:47 pm

    Yes, for starters there is

    3.1.8. Increase transparency and accountability within New Zealand’s security and intelligence agencies and organisations; and

    3.1.9. To actively encourage the participation of young people in New Zealand’s democratic process.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. kiwi in america (2,445 comments) says:

    Judith
    Its no secret you’re not a John Key fan. You try to present yourself as some ephemeral floating voter but almost all of your over 6,000 posts are anti National or anti Key. Now you’re not vicious and bombastic like at The Standard but you have consistently supported the left and spun their views on almost all topics.

    For some on the left the emergence of the IMP arrangement is treated as something akin to electoral salvation. This awkward marriage is seen as a game changing boost to the overall left vote. It’s way too early to tell if that will ever happen but already the launch is attracting mainstream media and even some left wing criticism. The hard left (except the principled Sue Bradford) are having a collective wet dream as the old crew of barely reconstructed Marxists have held their noses and taken the rich capitalist’s money. The hypocrisy of this is rightfully being attacked and not just from the right. Labour MPs have condemned the arrangement and the Greens privately will be aghast as they see their carefully constructed positioning to grow their vote from the non-voting youth demographic hijacked by Dotcom’s attempt at mass distortion of the NZ body politic.

    To attack the aging lefties that head the IMP coalition as being out of touch with the target market the IP says it is seeking is not at all delusional and to equate John Key’s lack of detailed knowledge of any and all technical matters in National’s manifesto is not even remotely equivalent to Harre’s ignorance of internet issues. NZers don’t expect any PM to dive too deep in any area aside their ministerial portfolio and yet there would be a reasonable expectation that the head of the IP seeking to be elected into Parliament on the party’s newly published aims would be at least versed in the subject matter. There are techo people in their late 40’s/50’s who know this stuff but Harre aint one of them and to say her kids will teach her is laughable.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. SHG (316 comments) says:

    Judith said:

    You left these out: –

    I also left out the starting lineup of the Oklahoma City Thunder, and for the same reason: because I was listing the objectives of the Internet Party. Things which are not objectives of the Internet Party, such as the starting lineup of the Oklahoma City Thunder and those other things you posted, I intentionally left out.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    The only difference to Laila’s policy is that it would actually be providing what the people (and I presume she means a consensus or close to, of what the people want) – as opposed to what the 1% ers and wannabe 1%ers want.

    Judith its grossly irresponsible to adopt that approach because it raises expectations beyond ability for them to be realistically fulfilled. Don’t you get that? There are a hell of a lot of people out there in the electorate who hallucinate that the govt is this giant amorphous blob with bottomless pockets and the only thing stopping the gummint from spending what they think they deserve on them is naked selfishness because greedy rich pricks want to keep it all for themselves so the poor widdle things at the bottom of the pile get absolutely nothing at all. Do you not understand this is a widely held attitude out there? It’s as ignorant as hell, of course it is, duh. But nevertheless, its out there. And guess what. It’s out there in spades in particular amongst the IP’s target audience because guess what, it’s more widely held amongst the youth.

    It’s really really boring explaining common-sense human nature to someone like you who knows it already so I’m going stop there and won’t bother spelling out the precise dangers of adopting a policy promotion strategy along Laila’s stated lines to such an audience, I know, don’t think, I know you can work out the precise dangers of it yourself.

    And if you can work out the precise dangers of it, then why the hell do you imagine Laila can’t, as well? And the fact she is going ahead with such a strategy, regardless of said dangers, says what, about her suitability to hold the office she has been appointed to?

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    I don’t know where McCarten fits in at the moment. He was supposedly recruited by Labour to help drive their election campaign, but with the Internet-MANA hitch-up there are a number of interesting interconnections in what Martyn Bradbury has referred to as the new Auckland left.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    kiwi in america (2,394 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 4:58 pm
    Judith
    Its no secret you’re not a John Key fan. You tried to present yourself as some ephemeral floating voter but almost all of your over 6,000 posts are anti National or anti Key.

    You lost me at this point and I haven’t bothered reading the rest. Many of my posts were actually achieved in arguing the evidence in the Bain Murder/suicide case, so for a starters, you clearly haven’t read all my posts.

    Secondly, I make no secret of the fact that I dislike John Key and especially his politics, so why you think that is some sort of revelation, beats me. I don’t really care what you ‘think’ I am – I am a floating voter, in that I don’t support any one particular party – as I have said many times – which you would have picked up if you had read every one of my posts – is that I am not ‘for’ any party, only against National as long as John Key is in charge.

    Now, I am not sure of what the reason for your post is – other that to point out what most people already know. If you think for some reason I would find your comment the least bit disturbing, then clearly when reading my posts, you didn’t take much notice of the fact that I don’t post here to win friends and what you or anyone else thinks of what I post, doesn’t worry me in the slightest. :-)

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. kiwi in america (2,445 comments) says:

    Judith
    The point of my post was past the point where you said you stopped reading. Perhaps if you’d read on you’d realize what it was. Who did you vote for in 2005, 2008 and 2011 as a matter of interest?

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Reid (15,795 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 5:02 pm

    Yes Reid, I do get that it is offering something they can’t deliver. But come on – all the political parties offer things they can’t deliver. How many promises has National failed to fulfill? How many promises did we hear from Labour, under Helen, that were later ignored.

    I don’t believe people actually expect the promises to be met now – which actually says something very sad about our political system.

    (PS as you know, I’m playing devils advocate here – I would no more vote for the IP party, than I would for John Key – but the hypocrisy that is displayed when people put requirements on one party but fail to apply them to all parties, really peeves me off).

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 12 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    What you don’t know? Why don’t you just look it up?

    And there you have it, Judith. You don’t know what a hacker is.

    You probably think that it is someone who breaks into government databases and posts stupid things on peoples Facebook pages.

    But it isnt. And now you have been shown to be completely out of touch with the techno-literate.

    One simple word and your opinion loses all credibility.

    Oh, but they will just get Harre to read from a script, right? But who is deciding what is said?

    Sec1 – “We have to put something out to do with the internet.”
    Sec2 – “My nephew knows computers, we will ask him for something technical that will wow the young geeks!”
    Sec1 – “Brilliant idea!”

    Harre – “And that is why we decided to target our policies at ensuring that sp4ckyf4rk is COD4 noobz.”

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ kiwi in america (2,395 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 5:08 pm

    In 2005 I voted Labour (voting for English was too much of an ask) and 2008 I voted National. In 2011 I split my vote and voted for my local Labour candidate and for Green party vote, (I think? I’m actually not sure if that is right on the party vote, – it might have been the other way round, either way it wasn’t National). Prior to that, I have voted for Labour 2 more times, and other than when I wanted to voted Social Credit (just to shock my parent’s) the majority of other times I voted National.

    This time, I’d love to escape by not voting, but I think my father would come back and haunt me if I didn’t! Apart from three MP’s that I do respect, there isn’t any that I think deserve my vote – so it’s going to be a hard one to decide this year.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kimble (4,221 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 5:18 pm

    FFS Kimble – of course I know what a hacker is. Do you seriously believe that anyone who uses the internet as much as me, wouldn’t know? I just think your constant DEMANDS are better ignored, and prefer not to give into your control freak urges.

    A hacker is a person that uses computers (and other relevant technology) to get unauthorised access to data/information.

    It doesn’t have to be government data base, although they have been victim to hackers, the term can apply to anyone that uses technological equipment to gain such access to any sort of data, private or professional, or state.

    Now, would you like to know a secret to hacking ebay account information?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    the hypocrisy that is displayed when people put requirements on one party but fail to apply them to all parties, really peeves me off

    Yes I see it as well Judith – all the time, e.g. on not holding e.g. Israel, the UK and the US to the same standards they hold e.g. Russia and Iran to. I’ve learned over the years trying to get them to see any balance whatsoever is like arguing with particularly stupid sheep who’ve all been lobotomised and subjected to clockwork-orange style mind-kontrol programming. But never mind, if they want actually to help the world go to hell in a handcart rather than try to stop it, who am I to judge.

    Anyway, I think on this, KIA has a point. Just as conservatives would expect their leader to be astute in things economic and Labour would expect their leader to be astute in things like workers rights, KIA suggests and I agree, it’s reasonable to expect the same from this new party, in their chosen field. I also agree with him that it’s laughable to expect such astuteness to be inculcated by Laila’s children. She did say this and if that’s what she thinks then she’s profoundly misunderstood the problem domain and that should be a worry, for those who don’t want her to go down in flames.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    A hacker is a person that uses computers (and other relevant technology) to get unauthorised access to data/information.

    DERP! Wrong!

    That might be the lay-person, Hollywood, MSM, Mum&Dad definition of the term, but it means something different to the techno-literate.

    Hacking just means building something quickly or testing the boundaries of what can be done.

    Possible Internet Party supporter – “I’m not a professional programmer, I’m really just a bit of a hacker at heart.”
    Harre – “Well our party doesnt condone that sort of thing.”
    Former possible Internet Party supporter – “You’re an idiot.”

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. goldnkiwi (1,304 comments) says:

    I wonder if there were other candidates and who they were? Maybe Laila was the only one to put her hand up.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ chris (490 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 5:26 pm

    or is it?

    @ Kimble (4,222 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 5:34 pm
    A hacker is a person that uses computers (and other relevant technology) to get unauthorised access to data/information.

    DERP! Wrong!

    Hacking just means building something quickly or testing the boundaries of what can be done.

    Think you’re a smart arse, don’t you Kimble, or is that ‘chris’.

    The fact is sweetie, you didn’t ask what HACKING is, you asked what a HACKER was.

    Kimble (4,222 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 5:18 pm
    What you don’t know? Why don’t you just look it up?

    And there you have it, Judith. You don’t know what a hacker is.

    Not a good look Kimble – typical of you though.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @goldnkiwi (765 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 5:35 pm

    I was thinking the same thing? Or was she head hunted, because of her high profile?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. chris (647 comments) says:

    Oh dear, Judith. Kimble is spot on and is the exact reason why and how Laila would turn off the very people the Internet Party is supposed to appeal to, and also the reason why you won’t understand (despite going on about how much you use the internet). I deleted my post because I realised you’d just ask why I said you were wrong and I’m not literate enough to write a good answer, which Kimble did superbly. Amazingly, you saw that reply in the few seconds it would have appeared here.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Maybe Laila was the only one to put her hand up

    I wouldn’t be surprised if they went for her political skills plus her inside running as the former Issues Manager for the Bedlamites.

    This is going to give the IP a huge advantage in stealing and launching first (and critically, more clumsily) all the very latest leading-edge insanity the Bedlamites have been developing over the last three years.

    I predict therefore the Bedlamites are going to drop in the same proportion the IP rises, in the early polling. Once we get closer to the election other factors will have been in play but this will give them some early running.

    Wussel & Co are right now running a major leak risk-management damage-control exercise, I guarantee it. It’s going to be an interesting test for them, as we the public who know what’s going on get to see just how politically skillful or otherwise the Bedlamites really are, because this is a major risk disaster scenario, for any party, this far out from an election.

    But the calculation in the Bunker somewhere in Coatsville I think would have been that the necessary strategic IT expertise could be provided by DC, his advisers and his IP CEO and together they could feed Laila all the necessary lines on things like say, the IP’s position on another undersea cable.

    But fact is, IT is a complicated subject, just like economics and just like workers rights and in any complicated subject there are nuances you pick up over the years from being immersed in it that cannot be inculcated into a newbie and it’s those nuances that come out in say, televised debates which if you know it off the top of your head it just flows out of your subconscious and if you don’t but you’ve memorised the talking points you just look like a newbie try-hard tosser.

    And guess what? The IP’s target audience will pick that up IN A HEARTBEAT as they watch the debates.

    e.g. Kimble’s 5.34

    Possible Internet Party supporter – “I’m not a professional programmer, I’m really just a bit of a hacker at heart.”
    Harre – “Well our party doesnt condone that sort of thing.”
    Former possible Internet Party supporter – “You’re an idiot.”

    So it’s all rather fun, really. The very best part is that as all the lefties are running these dynamics amongst themselves and we haven’t even mentioned Liarbore’s distressing issues, the conservatives may, may, not certain, but may, simply glide through like a swan, and wouldn’t that be a relief for the country, for the next three years.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ chris (490 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 5:50 pm

    Kimble’s answer might be spot on to a new definition of hacking, it is not spot on to the term of hacker as it applies to the common use of the internet – which we happen to be discussing in terms of the Internet Party.

    You, like him (and maybe considering the close wording of your posts you are one and the same) changed the terms of the use of the word. Like I said, you were being smart arses – which says a lot about you.

    The fact remains, that the people that vote for the IP will not do so because they think the leader knows more about the internet, and in your example, hacking, than they do. They will vote for it because it offers them policy they like (and I suspect a means to protest against the status quo, and even some because they like Laila).

    As I said, you are delusional and your arguments just do not stack up when you compare them to why people vote for other parties. You’re trying desperately to discredit – I understand that, but you’re only fooling yourselves if you think people make a political vote solely because they like the knowledge the leader has.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    “… The Bain murder/suicide case”

    Don’t you mean the Bain family murders Judith? Surely a sensible, intelligent woman like you didn’t buy the evidence of the contortionist who tried to demonstrate how Robin Bain killed himself?

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    The fact is sweetie, you didn’t ask what HACKING is, you asked what a HACKER was.

    A HACKER is someone who builds something quickly or tests the boundaries of what can be done.

    A HACKER is someone who engages in HACKING.

    You’re wrong. Just admit it. You didn’t know what a hacker or hacking was, but blundered about as if you did. And now you look like a complete idiot because of it.

    Just like Harre will.

    Think you’re a smart arse, don’t you Kimble, or is that ‘chris’.

    Do you know what a sock puppet is?

    Why would I need to create a different persona to agree with me, when everyone on here already disagrees with you?

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    Kimble’s answer might be spot on to a new definition of hacking, it is not spot on to the term of hacker as it applies to the common use of the internet

    It isnt new. It was the original definition. Then retards like you misunderstood it, spammed the world with hacker-this and hacker-that and now claim it can only mean what you say it means.

    Well it doesnt.

    Thats OUR word.

    And you dont get to co-opt it.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. chris (647 comments) says:

    To be perfectly honest, it’s a master stroke of genius on the part of the left getting Laila in as the leader of IP and, as I have commented previously, shows once again the naivety of KDC about NZ politics. She’s perfectly aligned with Mana and no doubt will simply be one of them after the election, assuming the IMP gets enough of the vote. Meanwhile, KDC will have already been extradited to the USA so won’t have any hold over Laila. Even if he hasn’t been, what hold will he have over her in the future other than funding? If the IMP do get enough votes to have 3 or 4 MPs, they won’t need him any more anyway. We on the right might call them sell outs, but they played it well.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. Grant (443 comments) says:

    @Pete George. “There’s no proof that extradition is a part of any political deal. Dotcom has denied it – …….

    Well they’d hardly bloody well write it into their charter would they, but if you believe for an instant that Dotcom’s extradition would go ahead if that leftist shower, (IMP, Labour et al), got into power, then, with all due respect, I’m incredibly pleased you weren’t elected when you ran for parliament.
    Here’s what I believe will happen should the worst befall us on the 20th of September:

    1/ The extradition process will be subject to endless delays, reviews of previous occurences, ministerial enquiries into processes, appeals to various courts, including the Privy Counsel and the UN, spelling checks, you name something that will slow it down and it will happen.

    And then..

    2/ Co Deputy Prime Minister Norman will announce, late one Friday afternoon in about early 2017, that “the government has spent millions of dollars on America’s extradition request and that the government has established that there is no benefit to NZ in sending such a prominent citizen into the hands of the FBI.

    Guess what?

    3/ There will be not one single solitary thing that anyone can do about it.

    G

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. chris (647 comments) says:

    I am not Kimble. And I know what I’m talking about. I’ve been a computer programmer pretty much most of my life (and I turn 40 this year). And you highlight my point perfectly. It’s our word. We HACK code. We are HACKERS. Computer programmers were once upon a time called HACKERS who HACK code. The IP will turn the very people off it claims to represent.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @Kimble (4,223 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 6:02 pm

    We were discussing the Internet Party, therefore the term hacker applies to its definition within the boundaries of the Internet, as far as I’m concerned. In terms of the internet – my definition is appropriate. Given the objectives of the internet party, it is also in keeping with them.

    You are being an arsehole Kimble. You know it, your friends will love it, but all it shows is that you can’t be honest. Most people would accept my definition as the most commonly applied one, and even hackers themselves accept it as the common meaning – a definition they would accept from Laila as well.

    I’m not playing you pathetic little games, I wasn’t wrong – changing the rules doesn’t make you right – it makes you what you are. Impress your friends, they deserve you.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 10 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    Vote for the Internet Party!

    Our leader doesn’t know shit about the Internet, but you’re a bunch of geeks who won’t care anyway!

    LOL WAT?

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    We were discussing the Internet Party, therefore the term hacker applies to its definition within the boundaries of the Internet, as far as I’m concerned.

    My definition, the ORIGINAL definition, applies as much to the internet as anything else.

    You are wrong in spades!

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. duggledog (1,555 comments) says:

    Grant

    I disagree. I think Dotcrim is f***ed whatever happens. If he thinks his fat capitalist ass is going to be saved by his new communist chums he’s a colossal fool. He’s rich remember? They will stab him in the back without a second’s thought.

    Once the Americans lean on us gently, if there is a Labour alliance in power, he’s gone burgers.

    Remember those two Frenchies that blew up a ship in Auckland? Faced with actual power, Lange let the French have them back.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ chris (492 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 6:07 pm

    Yeah, sure you are. And tell me, I suppose next you will tell us you were going to vote for the IP party, until they put Laila in as Leader.

    You don’t seem to get it – the IP vote’s are not going to be dominated by techno geeks. They never were, for as you say, if that was the case they wouldn’t have picked someone like Laila. The IP party was set up to improve the things they state on their objectives – most of which are not even aimed at the type of people you claim you are.

    You are all fooling yourselves if you think for one minute that is the party’s intention. They will get votes from people who are looking for an alternative, who want quicker internet, who hate what Key did with GCSB etc. Most of those people are ordinary NZers not Geeks. The IP’s objectives are not written to impress the Geeks – it is only you and your ‘friends’ that are trying to claim they are.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. chris (647 comments) says:

    It’s funny how Judith loves to speak for everyone else. Typical of those of the left.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. chris (647 comments) says:

    Aren’t we already getting quicker internet? Not sure why we need a party for that. And actually my internet’s pretty darn quick, even without National’s UFB. In fact UFB stopped ISPs supplying VDSL (which I finally managed to get a few months ago here). If they aren’t just for the internet, then why are they called “The Internet Party”? Surely a better moniker is called for. Anyway, I’m done arguing with you tonight Judith. I have much better things to do.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Grant – I was reporting what they said.

    I personally wouldn’t rely a lot on Dotcom’s word. His party arrangements have evolved with whatever opportunities he has found. His apparent conversion to extreme left wing ideals looks very suspect,

    I respect Andrew Little’s word a lot more. He has a lot to lose, including potential Labour leadership hopes. If he made a political decision in Dotcom’s favour on the extradition Little would be severely damaged, and so would Labour. The party and the caucus may be in disarray at the moment but I don’t think they’re that stupid.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kimble (4,226 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 6:10 pm

    I don’t care what you THINK Kimble – if you asked the majority of normal people what a hacker is, it is my definition that their answer would be closest. Now, considering votes are all about numbers – then the votes from ‘hackers’ that don’t like Laila’s lack of technical prowess isn’t going to matter in the slightest. Unless your next statement is there are hundreds and thousands of your sort of hacker out there looking for some highly knowledgeable person to vote for, your argument is totally invalid and I suspect just stirring because you are … exactly what you are.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    Most people would accept my definition as the most commonly applied one, and even hackers themselves accept it as the common meaning – a definition they would accept from Laila as well.

    Like I said. It is the layperson’s definition.

    Hackers know that lay-people use the term, maybe they correct them maybe not. But generally they understand what the layperson means by the term in any case.

    What Hackers dont accept are people claiming to be Hackers who use the term Hacker like a lay-person.

    Farmers wouldnt accept any leader of a supposed Farmers Party, who said that their preferred milk came from Murray Greys.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. Grant (443 comments) says:

    Duggledog, I would like to think that you’re right, but I bet kdc has himself covered somehow.
    Surely, if we can see through those people than someone like him from a dubious past can as well. Perhaps he some interesting photos? Or he’ shown them his Luger? If I was him there’d be some iron clad performance guarantee.

    The ideal solution, of course, is that the Nats get back in, kdc dons the orange overalls, and the abandoned harridans and their male equivalents, are left gnashing their teeth in ignominy.
    Here’s hoping…
    G

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ chris (494 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 6:20 pm

    Oh, so now you want to stop people voting for it because its not named appropriately? Sheesh!! Do you live in the real world?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    “Aren’t we already getting quicker internet?”

    My Internet is fine for what I do with it.

    IMP are proposing free superfast internet as a right for everyone. Next it will be insisting on everyone having a Ferrari and a 100 inch TV. We all deserve it.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    So if the majority of the world think the definition of a word means something, even if they are wrong, then that’s what the word now means.

    It’s say a lot about a person who thinks like this, or uses such logic to avoid admitting they were wrong.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  91. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    then the votes from ‘hackers’ that don’t like Laila’s lack of technical prowess isn’t going to matter in the slightest.

    That was ONE example. And for all we know Harre knows how and when to use the word “hacker”. The point is that there is a whole language and culture amongst the technologically inclined that you must be familiar with if you want them to select you to represent them.

    If you dont know it, you can’t represent them, and THEY know it.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  92. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kimble (4,227 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 6:22 pm

    No, but Farmers are happy to support the National party, and I bet John Key wouldn’t know the first thing about how to AI a cow! Your argument just doesn’t stack up Kimble. People do not expect the leaders of Political parties to know all the technical information involved – in fact if you read the IP objectives, they are not technical, but rather fighting for policy changes and introduction, – so their leader needs to have experience in dealing with policy – which Laila and John have.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  93. Grant (443 comments) says:

    Hi Pete, I would put as much value on Mr. Little’s word as I would on kdc’s. He is, afer all, a politician, and a Labour one to boot.
    Remember, they will do what ever it takes.
    G

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  94. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    Judith, you’ve reverted back to arguing something that no-one said. No-one said JK should know everything about farming because he doesn’t represent the NZ Farmers Party. You’re either extremely dense or extremely stubborn. Maybe a combination of both.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  95. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kimble (4,228 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 6:27 pm

    So do you think John Key knows the language involved in everything his party has policies for?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  96. OneTrack (3,089 comments) says:

    duggledog – “Once the Americans lean on us gently, if there is a Labour alliance in power, he’s gone burgers.”

    This will be the Labour-led(sic) coalition of envy, including the Greens, Internet and Mana (once Internet-Mana have disengaged following their total corruption of the NZ electoral system). What are those three parties opinion on the US? What is half of the Labour party’s opinion on the US? I think kdc is on pretty safe ground. Those guys will be reliving their younger days of protesting against the “man” and the US (think anti-nuclear). So, if the US decide to disown us, these guys simply won’t care and will count it as a success.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  97. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    No, but Farmers are happy to support the National party, and I bet John Key wouldn’t know the first thing about how to AI a cow!

    If National was reformed as the Farmers Party then they might.

    Hackers vote for other parties right now, so they are fine with their current crop of leaders misusing the word.

    But if there was a Hackers Party they would expect the leader to know enough about them to adequately represent their interests.

    So this Internet Party is NOT the party for the technologically inclined. And no amount of “young geek” tech support will allow them to fake it.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  98. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @Zapper (880 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 6:32 pm

    But that is exactly what Kimble is saying, see post 6.27 pm.

    The point is that there is a whole language and culture amongst the technologically inclined that you must be familiar with if you want them to select you to represent them.

    If you dont know it, you can’t represent them, and THEY know it.

    You cannot just separate technological knowledge out because it suits you to use against the IP. If the person chosen as a representative is required to know the ‘language and culture’ of the particular group then that same accusation can be fairly and squarely applied to other parties. So I repeat, does John Key know the language and culture of every group his party claims to represent – considering they say all of New Zealand, then that is a lot of groups.

    The correct answer is, of course they aren’t expected to know – they have advisors to give them the knowledge they need, when they need it. You people are simply being hypocritical, expecting one set of standards for one party, but not applying it to your party of preference.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  99. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Grant – yes, I know to be skeptical of any claims from politicians but it’s useful to get them on record.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  100. chris (647 comments) says:

    Wow I came back after checking out the lamb in the oven, putting veges on and all that stuff, and oh my goodness. I knew Judith was cray-cray but she really is taking the cake tonight.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  101. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kimble (4,229 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 6:36 pm

    Where in the list of objectives does the party say it is there for the technologically inclined? How do issues involving the GCSB and youth votes specifically address the technically inclined? How does concerns about the Govt having open access to digital data – target just the technically inclined? Those sorts of policies are for everyone – not specifically technological, although some use technology – fast internet etc is relevant to anyone with computers/etc, which is a very big part of the community, most of whom don’t consider themselves technically inclined.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  102. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    So I repeat, does John Key know the language and culture of every group his party claims to represent – considering they say all of New Zealand, then that is a lot of groups.

    John Key doesnt have to know about the language and culture of every group, simply because he is representing so many groups.

    (You are probably one of those people who condemn Key for being “out of touch” with common New Zealanders. Ironic.)

    If John Key tried to represent a very small number of groups, and named his Party after their common interests, then he would have to know a great deal about what they care about to be an effective representative.

    Harre doesnt. So Harre isnt.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  103. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    Where in the list of objectives does the party say it is there for the technologically inclined?

    Its right at the top where they call themselves the Internet Party.

    And it is in multiple press releases and interviews. Remember what Bumber Bradley said?

    If you call your party the Agriculture Aoteroa Party, and your representatives declare that your target voters are disaffected farmers, then it doesnt matter what you put in your manifesto. You have to select a leader who will adequately REPRESENT the audience you say you are targeting.

    … fast internet etc is relevant to anyone with computers/etc, which is a very big part of the community, most of whom don’t consider themselves technically inclined.

    And who better to advance the cause of faster internet than someone who can’t even update the firmware on her router.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  104. holysheet (385 comments) says:

    Ssssooorrry jjjuuudiittthhh
    III aammm aa biit pissssed. Siiiith mmmy llaaassst cooooommmmeeent aaaaabbbouut yyyooouuur bbeeeellovvveeddd CCriiimm….com ppparty IIIvvve llosssttt aall ioinnnrrrestt iin this ssstttuuupppid ddebbbate

    GGooott oon tthhee wwiiinneee annd enjjjoyying mmmyysseeelllf ttoo mmmuuuccchh ttoo bboootthhher anny mmoorrre

    Cchheers II luv u

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  105. OneTrack (3,089 comments) says:

    Kimble, Harre can just ring up her sons if she needs to know anything.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  106. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kimble (4,230 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 6:47 pm

    So, which single particular group is the Internet party claiming to represent, because I see several groups?

    1. Those that use the internet
    2. Those that have concerns about the GCSB and privacy
    3. Those that have concerns about NZ’s transistion to the digital era
    4. Businesses concerned about digital commerce
    5. Those concerned about a Digital Bill of Rights
    6. People concerned about Government digital communication
    7. People interest in Young People being included in the democratic process.

    Whilst some people may belong to more than one of those groups, the majority of people would not belong to all of them. Therefore there are many different groups, with different languages and cultures, which intercept each other in some cases.
    So, again I ask, why is it okay for you to claim this party represents only one group of people, (when clearly it doesn’t) and therefore they must have a leader that has a high level of technological knowledge, when the party leader you support, does not have the same requirements ? Why is it alright for your ‘leader’ to use advisors, but the IP party’s leader, is not allowed to, when she is representing a wide variety of ‘groups’?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  107. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kimble (4,231 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 6:51 pm

    Then going from that argument Kimble, the Internet Party is there for Internet users – which is an awfully big group of users! So again, given the size of the group – and the fact that there are various types of internet users, from businesses, nationalities, ages, sexes, and so on – how can you claim that your leader is allowed assistance because of numbers, and yet this party’s leader is required to know everything without assistance?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  108. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    Judith, they are the ones who said they would represent a particular group.

    And they named their party to affiliate with that group.

    Why is it ok for them to ignore that group IN PRACTICE and appoint a leader who doesnt know the first thing about that group?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  109. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    Then going from that argument Kimble, the Internet Party is there for Internet users – which is an awfully big group of users!

    Why should anyone vote for a party touting themselves as THE INTERNET PARTY, but who cares so little about the Internet that they appoint as leader someone who knows next to nothing about the internet?

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  110. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kimble (4,232 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 7:05 pm

    I’m sorry, but as I said, their group is a very big group and their objectives define it further.

    Their leader does know the first thing about the group – she is an internet user herself. Even if she isn’t a competent one, she is still a member of the same group and is quite capable of taking advice to answer any queries, just like John Key and every other political leader does.

    You are being picky and hypocritical. You know as well as I do, that none of the people that would vote for IP, will not change their vote just because Laila Harre is leader. If they were silly enough to support the party with Dotcom involved, they are going to do it no matter who is in charge.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  111. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    Their leader does know the first thing about the group – she is an internet user herself.

    Why not a Party that is dedicated to health issues? We can call it the Health Party.

    And this Health Party can appoint as their leader someone with absolutely no medical qualifications whatsoever.

    When asked about her lack of expertise, the leader can reply, “My kids have done some first aid courses, so I think I’m covered on that front.”

    And then some twit on the internet named Thujid says, “The leader DOES know the first thing about the issue – she has been to the doctor! And besides, she can just take advice from doctors and nurses and chiropractors and homeopathic therapists. You know. Professionals!”

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  112. lilman (958 comments) says:

    Judith,the labour voter,who cant accept that labour is no longer relative.
    God it must grind you up that your going to lose and everyone else knows it.
    David Cunliffe will still love you though.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  113. chris (647 comments) says:

    I’m a car user myself. Therefore I must know everything there is to know about roads and am a suitable leader for The Road Party. Anything I don’t know about roads (when it’s a core principle for my party) I can take under advisement.

    I’m pretty sure that sounds ridiculous. According to our friend, when you substitute words, it no longer is.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  114. goldnkiwi (1,304 comments) says:

    I wonder how many voters will look for the name Dotcom on the voting form.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  115. goldnkiwi (1,304 comments) says:

    Surely people want someone to lead that knows more than the ‘first thing’ on a subject?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  116. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    “I wonder how many voters will look for the name Dotcom on the voting form.”

    Possibly quite a few but we’ll never know how many.

    There could be some confusion. In Te Tai Tokerau and other Maori electorates there will be a candidate for the Mana Party (electorate vote) and an the Internet Party and MANA Movement (party vote). I presume they will have to be on separate lines.

    It will be less confusing where there are Internet Party candidates but also separate lines.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  117. Kimble (4,438 comments) says:

    Me – “Harre doesn’t know the first thing about the internet.”

    Judith – “HAH! Got you! Harre ONLY knows the first thing about the internet!”

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  118. goldnkiwi (1,304 comments) says:

    I reckon that the rest of the employees should ask for a raise. You would be a bit peeved me thinks. Having as important a job as looking after the kids should be worth more than Laila Harre surely.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  119. Nostalgia-NZ (5,195 comments) says:

    On the face of it she probably knows little about the internet, but I doubt that was the main priority in asking her to take the leader’s role. It was more to do with her political experience and who she might ‘bring’ with her. A person doesn’t necessarily need to be young to connect with youth, but I don’t think that is her purpose, it is more likely part of the plan to have younger voters vote for the IP. I’m sure the IP think it has been a more than useful ‘win’ for them, interesting now to see how it unfolds. The inevitable prediction is for an implosion, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  120. chris (647 comments) says:

    It’s going to be interesting to see what happens. It’s really hard to know at this stage if Hone will win his seat. And who knows how many will vote for the IMP. Maybe it will be enough to get 2 or 3 in, maybe not. And if they do, what affect will it have on votes for the Greens? And maybe it will be enough to oust National. And will a coalition of pretty much everyone but the party that got 48% or so of the vote be able to last? And how will they fare with such a strong opposition? It will be a very interesting election night, no matter who you support.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  121. goldnkiwi (1,304 comments) says:

    That internet thingy, is usually the first thing….a name ;)

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  122. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kimble (4,235 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 7:42 pm

    Can’t read huh? I said she did know the first thing about the GROUP. Not, she did know the first thing about the internet.

    Two very different things – but you wouldn’t understand that, you’re still hoping that the only people that might have voted for the IP are those who fit your definition of hackers, and now that Laila is the leader, they will no longer vote.

    Better start thinking of excuses for the votes they do get – I’m sure with your ability to be dishonest as demonstrated above, you’ll be able to come up with something, and if not, you can always get hints from your leader – him and dishonesty are best of mates.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  123. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    “A person doesn’t necessarily need to be young to connect with youth”

    But it helps quite a lot, especially in the superficial way most political marketing will be done.

    When you get older it’s common to be ignored by young people as if you don’t exist. Even young shop assistants/fast food servers who are supposed to at least pretend to connect often do so in a very detached way.

    I’m not sure how many young people will think Hone Harawira is cool at a glance (yeah, I know they probably don’t call it ‘cool’ any more).

    Nor any of the top of the list – here’s the probably top four Seeking the youth vote.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  124. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    “It will be a very interesting election night, no matter who you support.”

    Yes it will. It has just changed from a very open election to an election that’s very open with a significant twist.

    IMP could easily crash and burn quite quickly. Or they could fluke a Nek Minute flash of attention in time for the election.

    Labour and Greens seem to have recognised the high risks with associating with Dotcom and have tried to distance themselves. Labour say they are intent on competing strongly in Te Tai Tokerau. Greens aren’t likley to give up their share of support to Harre easily.

    A lot could change between now and September.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  125. chris (647 comments) says:

    Getting pretty desperate with your arguments there J. Who are you really trying to convince?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  126. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ chris (497 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 7:58 pm

    I don’t know if they will take any votes from National. I think the hard and fast National supporters will stay with their party. It would have to be something pretty drastic to make them move (like having English as leader).

    I think the people that might be potential IP voters are among the group that swings their votes. They voted for Helen, but when dissatisfied with her, swing to Key – not having got what they expected, they will be looking for where to next. With Cunliffe being so unpopular, they may consider either NZ1 or the IP. I think the Greens appeal to a particular type of voter and are unlikely to pick up too many swinging votes.

    Basically I think National have a certain 30-40%, and Labour a certain 25-30% – Greens a certain 10%, and perhaps NZ1 a certain 2% – the rest is spread among the others, with perhaps a many as 20% being swinging. Like in the past it is those swinging voters that change their votes and have no particular loyalties, that will decide the winner/s of the next election.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  127. chris (647 comments) says:

    @Pete

    At the start of the year, I would have handed it to the left. Then Labour really cocked things up. Now I reckon it’s gone back to a fairly even fight. IMP may well get a bunch of votes, but I doubt it. The disaffected youth that they appear to be targeting probably still won’t vote. But unlike some on this blog, I don’t presume to know how they think. We could well end up with the IMP holding a significant share of the vote. Again, I doubt this. But at this stage, it’s anyone’s guess. I can only hope the electorate sees sense, or decides not to vote.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  128. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ chris (498 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 8:06 pm

    Not trying to convince anyone – just point out what a bunch of hypocrites this lot are. Besides, Kimble always plays the game of posting to make me bite – I hate to disappoint him.

    This lot will never believe it – but I know they aren’t the only people who read Kiwiblog – and I believe my posts are often quoted in other places, so not all are NatLacks

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  129. chris (647 comments) says:

    You have finally posted something that makes sense Judith. I suspect NZ First’s core support is higher than that though. Greens too. And yes, swinging voters (of which you are most definitely not) decide elections. There was a great post by someone today about this, but I can’t remember which blog it was from – came through Feedly.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  130. chris (647 comments) says:

    Classic, finally hit 500 posts. After only 5 years. ;)

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  131. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Pete George (22,054 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 8:01 pm

    Many youths are students, or looking at becoming students. Key has offered nothing for them. (Yes he’s rearranged the books to take money from one area and put it in another but that is all). Basically Key is offering those that comply years of debt and no job security – especially when they have to compete with international students for a place and then jobs.

    Do you really think this will endear National to the youth vote, when others are talking about abolishing teritiary education fees for NZers?
    (sure, you and I know we can’t afford that, but the youths they are targeting don’t).

    Labour aren’t really offering them much either, and NZ1 don’t even seem to care about youth.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  132. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ chris (501 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 8:14 pm

    Chris I can assure you, I am neither a Labour or IP voter. Those two, along with National are certainly off my list.

    If Gerry Brownlee was Nat leader, and Bridges his deputy, they’d get my vote.
    If Shearer was still Labour leader, they might have got my vote – but Cunliffe never will.

    Dotcom’s party is unlikely to survive past one term, and I don’t particularly like Hone, although I like Laila, and understand her move, the other factors prevent me from voting for them.

    Which makes the list very small, I suspect probably the Greens, if I do make a party vote, will get it. And probably a rank outsider will get my local vote – but I’m yet to find out what my choices are.

    Never think you can tell what I will do by my posts – I frequently post ‘tongue in cheek’ merely to point out the other side of the argument and to make people think a bit – its a habit I get from my job – which is to make Uni Students think!

    So far, if you read all my posts you’d probably think I’ve always been against National. I haven’t. For years I was a member of their party.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  133. chris (647 comments) says:

    We can’t afford for tertiary education to be free. I went through tertiary education and I paid for whatever share of it that I paid for. And I ended up with a student loan, some of which was for stupid stuff, and which was paid off many years ago. Some of it I am thankful for, as it has enabled me to be where I am today. And I believe that students should continue to have to pay for some percentage of it.

    Do you think that all apprenticeships should be paid for? And if not, why not? A trade has much more value than my BA ever did. The other study I did (later on, and which I couldn’t have done without the loan) was much more practical, but I never finished the course and started up a company instead.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  134. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ chris (501 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 8:16 pm

    Well that’s a pathetic attempt – you need to give up work, go on the dole, have 8 kids and rent a state house, put a dead car on your front lawn and purchase a mongrel dog – get a lump sum payment from WINZ, up date your computer and make a better effort! I’m bound to annoy you enough that you will find plenty to post about.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  135. chris (647 comments) says:

    I should also add, the several loans I have had throughout my life, including a couple from my dad, have well and truly taught me the value of money. Unfortunately, many people have no clue.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  136. chris (647 comments) says:

    WTF? You really are a sad old lady. You made a little sense in one post and then went crazy again saying I should cop out and live the life of a complete and utter loser. It’s no wonder I skip past most of the crap you write. Bye for now.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  137. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ chris (502 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 8:29 pm

    I do not think Tertiary education should be free, but I do think that excellence and achievement needs to be recognised.

    I would like to see a type of bursary arrangement with an attached contract, where the best students are rewarded for their achievements and have their loans reduced/or paid, providing they work a set amount of time in New Zealand.

    We need to stop our best from going overseas to share their expertise elsewhere.

    Apprenticeships are different – I prefer the old system where they were worked out with lots of practical experience being taught by those that knew what was required, with perhaps a finishing off of theoretical stuff.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  138. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ chris (504 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 8:32 pm

    I was joking!!! Do you seriously think someone would give that advice and not be joking?

    Man you Nats are an uptight lot!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  139. Nostalgia-NZ (5,195 comments) says:

    Pete, being young would help a lot no doubt – but I don’t think LH will be pretending to be young and hip so much as signalling to youth that the IMP is ‘their’ party.

    Certainly in his electorate many think Hone is ‘cool.’ That’s the disconnect at the moment, people are (well at least some) outraged with what they see as what DC is doing when in fact many young people don’t feel that way. Furthermore, many of them are not concerned that he ‘may’ have ripped off Hollywood, they are likely to be more offended by drones. How ironical you might think: not worried about a rip off but pissed off about civilians being taken out in the name of the war on terror. The young of course most often think they can do better, part of evolution I guess and it may be that people like Hone who walk their own walk appeal. Don’t you remember a time when you may have considered the ‘safe hands’ of the elders were actually the oppressive chains against personal freedom – that may be what is hoped to be captured here, along with a voice, a vote, for something different. Why not?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  140. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    “I can only hope the electorate sees sense, or decides not to vote.”

    It’s hard to predict with so many uncertainties but I think less voting is most likely, there’s very limited decent choices.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  141. Dead Earnest (160 comments) says:

    Krim Dotcom is a one man circus determined to prove New Zealanders are stupid. So far he has succeeded with the left, but that was obvoius anyway. He has corrupted Hone, Sykes, Minto, Norman, Laila Harris & Peters with his filthy lucre and is now intent on desecrating our electoral process in an attempt to pervert the course of justice. Sue Bradford stands alone as a left winger of principle by refusing his advances. It used to be the left that cried “covert cash” “foreign influence” “backroon deals”. But no longer. The left wing elite are now totallly compromised. Hang in there Sue, next year the mantle is yours, as your ex-comrads crawl from their dung hill of tainted dollars to political oblivion.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  142. ross411 (838 comments) says:

    This was a painful set of comments to read. The nonsense about hackers was irrelevant and childish. It’s the kind of thing an immature university student would make a point of. Certainly, the youth of New Zealand who might back a real Internet party, wouldn’t know or care about some old definition of hackers.

    You may as well demand that people know what a hep cat is, and go around saying “can you dig it” or “in your face!” Only it would be more useful and relevant than knowing some old minority definition of the word hacker.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  143. goldnkiwi (1,304 comments) says:

    The internet party should produce an app. that reaffirms their membership in light of the ‘union’. I would be interested to know if all ‘members’ still considered themselves as such. Not that it matters regarding the registration of the party, but it is no longer the original animal but a mongrel, some would say.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote