General Debate 14 June 2014

June 14th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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219 Responses to “General Debate 14 June 2014”

  1. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Once again we see PSA-aligned sleeze ooze out of the gutter in election year having the audacity to claim they are underpaid. The display by these useless leeches yesterday, did nothing but reinforce my intent to vote for anyone who will guarantee less of these oversalaried, privileged leeches who are only interested in self indulgence, perks, and giving capitation fees to the disgusting party of perverts (Labour). Would far sooner see these PSA-indoctrinated losers on the dole than see them swanning around trying to look important and intelligent on excessive salaries and conditions. Come on New Zealand, we want less of these bludgers, along with their contemporaries in the teaching service. We once employed an ex career public servant, a mistake, he was a bloody failure, having been on a top salary for many years, goodness knows what he ever did to justify it.

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  2. fernglas (157 comments) says:

    Team NZ to go under within weeks without taxpayer money. Boo fucking Hoo.

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  3. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Jan Logie

    .
    Let me say clearly now: the housing crisis is not the fault of recent migrants; the unemployment rate is not the fault of recent migrants; and asylum seekers are not a threat to us.
    The housing crisis is primarily a predictable result of successive government’s decisions to leave housing to the free market and refusing to institute a capital gains tax. The Green Party does however want to put restrictions on home ownership for people who are not permanent residents because offshore speculation in our housing market has contributed to the increased price. We didn’t support the National government’s decision introduce (25th July 2011) “Residential Property Development” to the list of acceptable investment types for wealthy overseas investors to apply for visas here.

    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2014/06/03/immigration-the-green-party-perspective/

    Note how she side steps “housing crisis”/house prices.
    Isn’t international migration a free market? Isn’t there a difference in people to environmental benefits?

    Susan Guthrie

    Over the past two decades migration has had a strong influence on New Zealand’s property prices.

    As an aside, there’s been a lot of finger-pointing recently, as people try to blame particular groups of migrants for house price pressures. The fact of the matter is in the year ended March 2014, 13,000 more people left NZ permanently for Australia than came the other way so you can’t blame Australia’s economic woes for what’s happened in housing. The coming year may be a different story though – outflows to Australia are falling and inflows are rising. Last year the flow of New Zealand expats returning from Australia was the highest in over two decades. With over 500,000 New Zealanders living in Australia, the potential impacts are significant.

    A common myth is that most of New Zealand’s migrants arrive from China. The UK has actually been the source of most migrants. The significance of migration from the UK can be summed up best with this simple fact: since 1992 101,000 people (net) have arrived from the UK to live permanently in New Zealand. Sure, some of these may well be returning Kiwi expats, but no-one knows how many. Net long term migration from China over the same period was 95,000, India 72,000. So while focusing on migration patterns from Asia seems to be a hobby for many, it won’t get you very far if you want to understand fundamental pressures in the housing market.

    http://garethsworld.com/blog/economics/migration-matters-house-prices
    101,000 from U.K
    95,000 from China.
    The 101,000 from U.K including Kiwi Spitfire pilot who arrived during WW2 stayed until his wife died and returned with family members plus expats returning from OE.

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  4. duggledog (1,554 comments) says:

    Read the article on Brendon Horan and his wife in the Herald. I don’t like the look of either of them. Their family comes across as dodgy and so do they.

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  5. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Greenpeace a threat to national security and interfering in the democratic process
    In India, “An Intelligence Bureau report on foreign-funded NGOs “negatively impacting economic development” in India has called Greenpeace “a threat to national economic security”, citing activities ranging from protests against nuclear and coal plants and funding of “sympathetic” research, to allegedly helping out an Aam Aadmi Party candidate in the recent Lok Sabha elections.
    The allegations are part of the IB’s report, dated June 3, submitted to the Prime Minister’s Office. As reported first by The Indian Express, the IB claims the negative impact of the NGOs’ role on GDP growth to be “2-3 per cent per annum”.
    An Intelligence Bureau report on foreign-funded NGOs “negatively impacting economic development” in India has called Greenpeace “a threat to national economic security”, citing activities ranging from protests against nuclear and coal plants and funding of “sympathetic” research, to allegedly helping out an Aam Aadmi Party candidate in the recent Lok Sabha elections.
    The allegations are part of the IB’s report, dated June 3, submitted to the Prime Minister’s Office. As reported first by The Indian Express, the IB claims the negative impact of the NGOs’ role on GDP growth to be “2-3 per cent per annum”.
    http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/ib-report-to-pmo-greenpeace-is-a-threat-to-national-economic-security/

    Do they still have Charity status in NZ?

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  6. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    National has selected two more Maori candidates in general electorates in the last 48 hours. With National already having nine MP’s claiming Maori descent, and with 25 of Parliament’s 121 MP’s of Maori descent (22%), is it time for New Zealand to have the debate over whether the Maori electorates are still required?

    MMP has made the New Zealand Parliament far more representative. Let’s have the conversation, like the mature adults we all are…

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/06/is-it-time-for-maori-seat-debate.html

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  7. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    “Team NZ to go under within weeks without taxpayer money. Boo fucking Hoo”

    What? Does Dean Barker have to get a real job? No more taxpayer-funded shopping sprees in San Fran for Mandy??
    Those poor people…

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  8. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Golf in China
    Birdies, bribes and bulldozers

    Mr Moore, a laid-back, outdoorsy southerner, knew nothing about China before he accepted a job in the remote city of Kunming. But he soon realised that he was not in Florida any more. The local mayor insisted that he join him for a booze-up and a public execution. Mr Moore watched drunkenly as two drug-smugglers were placed on a stool and shot. He couldn’t refuse this grisly hospitality because golf-course-developers cannot operate without friends in government.

    The tycoons Mr Moore worked for were as ambitious as they were tough. One course was never enough—they wanted ten, or even 36. They wanted the biggest and most opulent golf resorts in the world, and they wanted them built “faster, faster, FASTER”. Every step required bribes for officials to look the other way. When the central government cracked down, Mr Moore’s workers had to fill in bunkers and pretend that the project was something other than a golf course.

    Many new courses appeared to make no economic sense—the owners couldn’t plausibly recoup their costs by charging green fees. Mr Washburn explains that golf was often a marketing tool to sell luxury villas nearby. Many Chinese officials have heaps of cash and no easy way to invest it, especially if it has been illicitly earned. Buying property is considered both prestigious and a safe investment, even though China’s property market swings more wildly than a drunk golfer.

    The victims of China’s golf boom are the same people who suffer from other mega-developments: the peasants. When well-connected developers bulldoze villages, the inhabitants are compensated, but they do not get a choice. Mr Washburn describes peasants who rioted after receiving barely a tenth of the payout to which they were entitled. Their protest earned them only tear gas and jail.

    http://www.economist.com/node/21604075?fsrc=nlw

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  9. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Nice to see igm still on about the hard working public servants. He’ll get back to his fascination with anal sex next.

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  10. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Key remains vague, non-committal and in no apparent hurry on any possible deal with Colin Craig and the Conservative Party. From an interview with Leighton Smith yesterday:

    We think we could work with the Conservatives if they make it, and we’d be prepared to have discussions with Winston Peters if he wanted to.

    Obviously the particular issues are Epsom when it comes to Act, Ohariu when it comes to United, and whether we find some way of accommodation Colin Craig

    Leighton Smith: It would appear as far as Colin Craig is concerned that you’ve run out of options…

    John Key: Not necessarily…

    Now when it comes to the Conservatives, they’re in a bit of a different position to United and Act. You’ve got to remember both of those parties won their seat in their own right at times where National pretty heavily contested those seats. That’s not the case with the Conservatives but that doesn’t mean that we couldn’t find a way through but I wouldn’t necessarily guarantee that we would.

    But I just wouldn’t jump to conclusions there because we’re a long way away from that position really with the Conservatives.

    Full transcript on this part of the interview.

    Stuff reports: Craig confident – just a matter of which seat

    Craig is set to announce which seat in little over a week. It’s unclear whether he will have had a nod from Key before then.

    Key has been careful not to tie himself to a timetable, while Craig is “awaiting the results of polling”.

    Craig must be getting anxious and a tad impatient, but Key keeps playing him along.

    Ask Craig, and he will say the party will break the 5 per cent threshold to make it into Parliament without an electorate seat and that it will have more than one MP and National will have to work for his vote.

    Craig will have to do a lot of work before he is in a position to make National work for his vote.

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  11. dog_eat_dog (780 comments) says:

    Barker would make far more sailing for someone else so that’s a bit of a red herring argument.

    Dalton isn’t doing himself any favours though – he should be asking for a loan from the government, not a hand out, and even if he is asking for a bridging loan from the government then the narrative has gotten away from him and it’s getting spun against him.

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  12. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Chris Trotter on The Panel “what’s in your mind. He talked about the defencelessness of the shop keepers but then he said how he thought the problem of “both parents working” was part of the problem. It wasn’t exactly the image I had of the parent’s of those kids. Shows differing world view (the world being a model of reality in one’s head).

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  13. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    Not impressed with the mail the morning
    letter funded by parliamentary service.
    A campaign document from Mr Key.
    pointing out you will not realistically address the cost of baby boomers when they hit retirement and that you give more to those who chose to breed will not get a vote from me.
    Spend national money on your campaign not mine thanks national.

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  14. johnwellingtonwells (137 comments) says:

    Let Dalton and co go under. Creates an opportunity for another NZ syndicate to raise the money without all the baggage that comes from Dalton and Co.

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  15. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Netherlands giving Spain a bit of a hiding. Knocks me out of the TAB $5 million pool.

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  16. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    MM:

    igm says:
    Would far sooner see these PSA-indoctrinated losers on the dole than see them swanning around trying to look important and intelligent on excessive salaries and conditions.

    What it seems we have here is a classic case of left wing jealousy. The green eyed monster. Someone else has done well and he wants to knock them to the ground.

    Apart from that tongue-in-cheek I have absolutely no idea what he is on about this time. Some sort of link or something might be nice. Or maybe not.

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  17. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Gareth Morgan in Nepal
    http://worldbybike.com/gareths-final-blog-roof-world

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  18. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild – I daresay that the potential pool of winners of the TAB’s pool will have been halved by now, just three games into the 64-match tournament.

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  19. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Make that a lot of a hiding. Yes, KS, it was always a bit of a long shot picking all those results.

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  20. J Bloggs (241 comments) says:

    Netherlands 5 – Spain 1
    Own goal as first scorer yesterday

    The TAB must be loving this WC Tournament…

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  21. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    Further to my post earlier this week on the storm damage flooding and heavy rain fall .

    Heavy Downpours Increasing
    http://nca2014.globalchange.gov/report/our-changing-climate/heavy-downpours-increasing
    Observed U.S. Trend in Heavy Precipitation

    Across most of the United States, the heaviest rainfall events have become heavier and more frequent. The amount of rain falling on the heaviest rain days has also increased over the past few decades. Since 1991, the amount of rain falling in very heavy precipitation events has been significantly above average. This increase has been greatest in the Northeast, Midwest, and upper Great Plains – more than 30% above the 1901-1960 average (see Figure 2.18). There has also been an increase in flooding events in the Midwest and Northeast where the largest increases in heavy rain amounts have occurred.
    Warmer air can contain more water vapor than cooler air. Global analyses show that the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere has in fact increased over both land and oceans.,,, Climate change also alters dynamical characteristics of the atmosphere that in turn affect weather patterns and storms. In the mid-latitudes, where most of the continental U.S. is located, there is an upward trend in extreme precipitation in the vicinity of fronts associated with mid-latitude storms. Locally, natural variations can also be important.

    The full report of the National Climate Assessment provides an in-depth look at climate change impacts on the U.S. It details the multitude of ways climate change is already affecting and will increasingly affect the lives of Americans.
    http://nca2014.globalchange.gov/report

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  22. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    @ dog_eat_dog – I blogged about the America’s Cup situation last night. My post was headed Enough is enough which probably gives an indication that I oppose further Government funding of Team New Zealand.

    Wasn’t Dotcom going to back them? If he’s got a spare $5 million as a bounty for anyone that concocts evidence to keep him out of the Big House, surely he’s got some loose change for Grant Dalton ;-)

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  23. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Told you so. You badly need a boyfriend.

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  24. Yvette (2,808 comments) says:

    Is it time for Maori seat debate? – Keeping Stock

    It may be, when we ironically have the current intention of a Maori seat being used to provide access to Parliament for a European party ruled by a non-citizen German millionaire …

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  25. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    mikenwimp: Don’t try and justify your public servant inadequacies by inferring I have the same sexual interests as a left-wing PSA-indoctrinated loser such as you.

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  26. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    But I don’t have any inaqequacies. Your comments, on the other hand, are very revealing.

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  27. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    The Suppressed bum bandits and anally focused homophobic posters are very quite at the moment mike.
    We need a good gay parade or some sort of anti discrimination news to bring them all back to a rolling boil of misplaced and suppressed lust

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  28. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    “…..We once employed an ex career public servant, a mistake, he was a bloody failure, having been on a top salary for many years, goodness knows what he ever did to justify it….”

    I believe Helen had to increase the size of government because so many of ‘NZ’s women’ were coming out of uni with worthless degrees – and they had student debt – so it wasn’t a good look – so ‘her and the sisterhood’ ‘certified’ the public service ranks further – leading to these women being employed. It increased in size by 47% in 9 yrs. It increased by half!

    Government services or the population never doubled!!!

    It’s a ‘war on women’ mine – set by Helen – and that’s why Key won’t reduce the public service anytime too soon!

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  29. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    “The days of “king corn” could be numbered as climate change brings higher temperatures and water shortages to America’s farmland, a new report warned on Wednesday.

    Nearly one third of U.S. farmland is devoted to raising corn and the country produces about 40 percent of the world’s corn crop. But the $1.7 trillion industry — the equivalent of Australia’s GDP — is under threat from water shortages, heat waves, and unpredictable rainfall caused by climate change.

    “Corn is an essential input to our economy, and climate change, water scarcity, and pollution are a critical threat to that sector going forward,” said Brooke Barton, director of the water program at the Ceres green investor network and author of the report.”
    http://grist.org/climate-energy/climate-changes-threatens-americas-king-corn/

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  30. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    “……The Suppressed bum bandits and anally focused homophobic posters are very quite at the moment mike.
    We need a good gay parade or some sort of anti discrimination news to bring them all back to a rolling boil of misplaced and suppressed lust….”

    The openly corny, gHEY, dirty society wreckers are very quite at the moment mike.

    We need a plain packaging parade or some sort of hetro hate news to bring them all back to a golden shower of reality and exposed filth.

    Morning boys. :cool:

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  31. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    Harry as your sexuality is so obviously perversely fucked up you could be the KB poster boy girl thing for the transgender commentator.community.

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  32. OneTrack (3,088 comments) says:

    mike – “Nice to see igm still on about the hard working public servants. He’ll get back to his fascination with anal sex next.”

    Is that your department protesting for more pay on the TV mike?

    So, nothing to see here, move along is it? And attack the messenger, combined with a cry of homophobia? Three standard tactics from the left wing playbook at the same time.

    Cant you get something about racism in there as well? It works for Metiria when she starts losing an argument.

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  33. flipper (4,051 comments) says:

    Brinksmanship and Americas Cup are like apple pie and cheese – they go together. Always have; always will.

    But some of the posts above are so laden with green eyed monster and “class” statements that I doubt they have been made by real New Zealanders.

    I know Dalton, and I know his passion for winning. He pushes to the edge. A careful analysis of what he said, placed along side what S Joyce said, indicates that the screws are being put on commercial interests – not the Government. I say this because I know that Dalton will have briefed MBIE and S Joyce on the sponsors.

    But … what is the saying? Que cest ra, ces ra [sic]. So, let us wait and see what will be.

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  34. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Harriet and igm would make a good couple.

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  35. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    No.

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  36. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    So, nothing to see here, move along is it? And attack the messenger, combined with a cry of homophobia? Three standard tactics from the left wing playbook at the same time.

    I think he’s just saying that ‘igm’ is out of control. No more, no less. I don’t think you have to be a Mensa candidate to agree with that.

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  37. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    You have to laugh at the New Zealand sporting media.

    The greatest sporting event on the planet is now underway (Go Holland!) and all the NZ sporting media could do this morning on the radio was talk up an irrelevant rugby friendly between NZ and England.

    This cringe factor even extended to TVNZ’s man on the ground in Brazil, the highly unlikeable (and Green party supporter) Jack Tame finding a way to squeeze a mention of the New Zealand rugby team into a piece about the World Cup.

    What a pity the Kiwi sporting media cannot embrace the World Cup, yes the blatant cheating and diving can be a pain in the arse but then any fan of the New Zealand national rugby team cannot really have a moan about football players cheating when the captain of the NZ rugby team is well known as being a man who breaks the laws of the game consistently and with total impunity such is the piss poor standard of international refereeing.

    So sit back sports fans, enjoy a real world cup, enjoy real passion and enjoy the spectacle of the greatest sporting event being beamed live into your living rooms. You might also reflect that with this world cup (there is only one true world cup) you will not find anybody connected with it every telling lies about how big the tournament is, no lies about the number of people watching and no lies about how famous the players are, and when the final does come around and one of the commentators says “the whole world is watching” you know he is telling the truth.

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  38. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    Now, now, mikenmild. Leave igm alone. I love igm’s rants – the closest thing we have to the glory days of redbaiters unhinged rants.
    And you can guarantee that his rant will be there first thing in the morning on general debate. It’s like he stores them up, all ready to go.
    You got to give igm credit – he may be a nutter, but he is dependable.

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  39. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yes BB, we know you hate the ABs, but TVNZ is paying a lot of attention to the football.

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  40. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yes bc, but until he’s drooled over the ‘rainbow room rectum reamers’ we all know he hasn’t finished for the day.

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  41. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    Usually it’s Newstalk ZB hosts that get him froathing at the mouth, mikenmild. I thought gay sex was Harriet’s thing.

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  42. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    He’s also fixated on Ian Lees-Galloway and the Palmerston North newspaper.

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  43. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    Sorry about the repost….but i couldn’t resist myself…..

    Harriet (4,230 comments) says:
    June 14th, 2014 at 9:48 am

    “….We simply could not afford to pay for the type of international coverage that we received in the last campaign….”

    Judith……losing when you are at 9/10 and the SINGLE OTHER COMPETETOR is 1/10…..is not something anyone would want to advertise…….let alone fucken pay for!!! :cool:

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  44. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    It’s the weekend, the sun is shining and to top it off I’ve read the expression “rainbow room rectum reamers”!
    Just typing it got me laughing out loud all over again. The alliteration (?) is superb.
    Was that one of igm’s rants? If so, well done sir!

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  45. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    It’s one of his catch phrases. I’m surprised you’ve missed it.

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  46. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/06/no_author/cop-shoots-teenage-couple/

    TULSA, OK — Two teens sharing a private moment in a school parking lot were chased away in a hail of gunfire by an armed campus cop.

    The disturbing incident took place when a boy and girl parked in the darkened lot of Eliot Elementary School at 1:30 a.m. on May 25th. The overnight patrol officer saw the car and initiated a confrontation.

    The teens were caught “doing something that they shouldn’t have been doing” according to Chris Payne, an official from Tulsa Public Schools (TPS). The officer demanded the embarrassed teens produce identification and started asking questions that they reportedly did not want to answer.

    The young male, 17, evaded the questions when he allegedly tried to drive away. In response, the TPS officer drew his weapon and opened fire. The vehicle was struck in the rear left tire but neither of the teens were hit.

    The officer claimed his life was somehow in danger from the motion of the vehicle. It is unclear how attempting to kill a driver while a vehicle is moving could have improved his safety. Even if the officer succeeded in killing the driver, the vehicle would have kept moving and the supposed threat would continue to exist. Shooting at moving vehicles is categorically irresponsible in nearly every circumstance.

    Mr. Payne had to sheepishly explain that campus cops “are real police officers” complete with guns and officer certifications.

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  47. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    I’d like to weigh in on the Colin Craig affair.
    I think National should definitely go with Dunne – he’s corruptible.

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  48. flipper (4,051 comments) says:

    To paraphrase the quiche line bruvver…

    “Real men don’t have soccer moms.”

    The soccer addicts in Brazil, and elsewhere have, as a consequence of kicking the soccer ball with their heads too often, advanced from concussion to a state of self-induced coma.

    But if that is their choice, so be it. Sensible folks in NZ, the UK, Australia, France, South Africa and elsewhere, will devote their attention to games played by real men.

    :-)

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  49. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Later on Friday’s The Panel they discussed the haircut where the school was dissed as authoritarian. What’s wrong with an authoritarian society? Could women please be safe to walk from the bus stop to their homes? Could we call noise control without the waltz (delay, response, compliance, non-compliance, delay, response) etc? If you watch those policing programs everyone thinks he is Barry Hart; that doesn’t happen in Japan.

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  50. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ flipper (3,374 comments) says:
    June 14th, 2014 at 9:31 am

    Well Said Flipper.

    I’m appalled at the flack being thrown at Dalton over this. He’s doing the right thing by trying to keep the challenge from New Zealand. If he was only in it for personal gain, there are plenty of very wealthy countries that would pay plenty to have him put together a team for them. He wants to do this in the name of New Zealand.

    Instead we have a ‘lets shoot the patriot’ thing going on. And by whom? People that would sell this country up the creek if they thought there was a personal dollar in it for themselves. Thank goodness we have some excellent sportsmen and women in this country that are proud enough of it, to represent it when and where they can.

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  51. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    What’s wrong with an authoritarian society?

    It makes people vulnerable to abuse of power.

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  52. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,638 comments) says:
    June 14th, 2014 at 10:28 am

    What’s wrong with an authoritarian society?

    It makes people vulnerable to abuse of power.
    …..
    Oh that’s why student’s can trash a neighbourhood* with impunity: I put my drunk suit on on Friday night but climb out of it on Saturday morning; I’m no longer identifiable or culpable?
    * working class (not where Mum and Dad live).

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  53. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    Well said Big Bruv- I almost puked in my mouth when Jack Tame (in between ranting about ‘poverty’ and ‘inequality’) said something about Brazil being the soccer equivalent of the “mighty All Blacks”..
    It was bad enough reading the rugby ‘reporter’ in the Herald absolutely rubbishing the English rugby team yesterday, writing that they are “too slow, too boring, too young, unwilling to have a go, unable to play attacking, expansive rugby; a side unfit for All Blacks consumption.”
    This being an English side that has given the All Blacks some torrid and brutally close battles over their past few encounters (only a terrified ref saved the supposedly ‘invincible’ All Blacks on Saturday night!)..and yet seemingly (according to our biased media) they aren’t even worthy of being on the same park as the All Blacks??
    No wonder the rest of the rugby world despises New Zealand’s arrogance about the game so much…

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  54. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    hj, making a point involves showing a logical connection between your argument and the idea that you are criticizing.

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  55. wikiriwhis business (3,996 comments) says:

    Warming gesture to homeless

    Cleaner Amy Burke could no longer keep walking past the shivering forms of the city’s homeless, huddled in doorways, after finishing her job in the Re:Start mall area each night.

    Now the 36-year-old mother of four distributes warm clothing and food every night to the homeless in the central city.

    Already word has got around of the woman with a carload of warm clothes, spaghetti toasties, boil-up and fresh fruit – and it’s only been two weeks.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10156831/Warming-gesture-to-homeless

    Someone doing something instead of whinging about real problems of our society. Victims of power as effected by states world wide.

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  56. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    Flipper.

    Yes indeed, real men like sticking their hands between the legs of other men and grabbing hold of their crotch. Real men like jumping all over each other in some sort of homo erotic pile up.

    But hey, if you are threatened by a real world sport don’t let me stop you. Keep deluding yourself that Rugby matters and that the Rugby World cup (note how they have to keep telling the world what type of world cup it is) is “the third biggest sporting event in the world” when that is clearly a huge lie.

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  57. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,639 comments) says:
    June 14th, 2014 at 10:45 am

    hj, making a point involves showing a logical connection between your argument and the idea that you are criticizing.
    …..
    That sort of thing wouldn’t happen in a more authoritarian society. There is a trade off. I think many would prefer stronger actions and fewer rights for people who create nuisance ie. if we all had a dial I think the heat would go up on some groups. As it is, civil libertarian elites would set a limit.

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  58. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    On the Nation they discussed child poverty. Super age needs raising. No one mentioned people having more babies than they Bay practice he will see “poor children mainly Maori”. They who (along with PI) are having larger families than every other group (move on nothing to see).

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  59. OneTrack (3,088 comments) says:

    The left-wing Herald shows some more red this morning – one of their five reasons we shouldn’t support Australia in the Football World Cup – #5 – Tony Abbott.

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  60. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    Tony Abbott?

    Your George W Bush’ – Tony Abbott makes a splash in the United States

    The prime minister’s gaffes, faux pas and missteps are a big hit with US comedians. For many Americans, they’re the only thing they know about Australia’s political life
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/13/your-george-w-bush-tony-abbott-makes-a-splash-in-the-united-states

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  61. MT_Tinman (3,184 comments) says:

    BB having noted the disgraceful coverage of the latest NZ cricket team’s test win (Not your sport I know :-) ) in NZ media I agree.

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  62. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Latest Tea Party news.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/international-politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503226&objectid=11273301

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  63. MT_Tinman (3,184 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock (9,962 comments) says:
    June 14th, 2014 at 8:13 am
    National has selected two more Maori candidates in general electorates in the last 48 hours. With National already having nine MP’s claiming Maori descent, and with 25 of Parliament’s 121 MP’s of Maori descent (22%), is it time for New Zealand to have the debate over whether the Maori electorates are still required?

    No, it is time to get a National-led government re-elected.

    The time to abolish the racist seats is the start of the next parliament after that has been achieved.

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  64. cricko (330 comments) says:

    Maybe there is hope after all.

    islam has two factions, shia and sunni.
    (that’s not like Methodists and Anglicans, it’s kind different in islam)

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  65. publicwatchdog (2,593 comments) says:

    5 sitting weeks to go and corrupt Minister of Justice Judith Collins’ ‘Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill’ (whose passage is required before NZ can ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC) is still nowhere to be seen on the Parliamentary Order Paper.

    http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/00HOHOrderPaper1/557820959ded99caaa42250414a4391d6d0fa908

    How does NZ deserve a seat on the UN Security Council when we (and I use the ‘we’ word very lightly’ haven’t even got our domestic anti-corruption legislative framework in place?

    Seriously?

    How competent and ‘fit for duty’ is Judith Collins as Minister of Justice – swanning around overseas, getting her ‘look at me me me’ photo taken with celebrities, when CRITICAL legislation, which is HER responsibility – the ‘Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill’ – which she PROMISED would be introduced last year, is nowhere to be seen ….

    What a disgrace.

    And NZ Prime Minister John Key still supports this corrupt, incompetent Minister?

    What does that say about his ‘fitness for duty’ as Prime Minister and Leader of the National Party?

    Penny Bright

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  66. Scott Chris (6,133 comments) says:

    That ‘suppository’ of wisdom Mr Rabbit does it again:

    Draped in a Socceroos scarf, Abbott has called skipper Mile Jedinak “Mike” as he wished Australia well in a YouTube message just hours before they take the field in their opening World Cup clash against Chile in Cuiaba, Brazil today.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/10158107/Aussie-PM-gets-Socceroos-skipper-wrong

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  67. Scott Chris (6,133 comments) says:

    Harriet and igm would make a good couple.

    Might make another of Kiwiblog’s angry closet gays Dirty Harry aka laj jealous but.

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  68. flipper (4,051 comments) says:

    big bruv (12,678 comments) says:

    June 14th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    *****

    Never felt threatened by wimps bruvvy…..

    So ….. bruvvy ….

    Go back to your spitting, hissing, Hollywood “injuries”, and kicking it with you head…or back to from whence you came .
    In New Zealand the real game appeals to the overwhelming majority – or had you not noticed. Moreover we would never allow our sport to be ruled by a bunch of Blatter gangsters that are probably worse than the self perpetuating oligarchy that is the IOC

    En passant….. bruvvy ….the only gropers that I have seen on the sports channels lately are in Brazil. :-)

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  69. Scott Chris (6,133 comments) says:

    What’s wrong with an authoritarian society?

    Well don’t bother asking a North Korean. They’d be too scared to give an honest answer.

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  70. Ed Snack (1,872 comments) says:

    I see that in the US the IRS has announced that they can’t provide (as they “promised” to do) all the Louis Lerner emails to the investigating congressional committee because they’ve somehow lost all external emails for her in a “computer crash”. My, isn’t extremely convenient for the White House, democrat members of the Senate and Congress, the Justice Department, FBI, and others. No backups were kept either, my how strikingly convenient.

    I’m usually a fan of the “never ascribe to malice what can be reasonably described as incompetence” school of thought, but this one stretches my sense of incredulity rather.

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  71. Sofia (856 comments) says:

    Penny
    UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC)
    Uganda, signature 9 Dec 2003; ratification 9 Sep 2004
    So?

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  72. jcuknz (704 comments) says:

    REDBAITER … not that you need it :) but I have sprung to your defence with regard to yesterdays picture with a link to my rework … I wonder if you would mildly approve :) Only mildly since that is my opinion :)

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  73. edhunter (546 comments) says:

    Yes rugby is number in NZ, but football IS the world game & anyone too insecure in their own masculinity & who poor scorn on the beautiful game are the ones missing out. Today’s games between Spain vs Netherlands & Chile vs Australia had everything you’d want from a World Cup, the Dutch win today is akin to French beating the AB’s by 40 pts & the Ockers put up such a bloody good fight after a shocker of a start that they’ll feel aggrieved not to have taken a point from the game.

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  74. Redbaiter (8,801 comments) says:

    “I wonder if you would mildly approve :) Only mildly since that is my opinion :)”

    Done before I saw this message friend.

    I think its the only comment on the thread from someone with some expertise in photography. (I’m no expert but I know posturing rubbish when I see it.)

    For all it matters Clintonoid should just post a comment about something, like a brown sparrow for example, and then all of the usual raconteurs can leap aboard and tell us of their personal experiences.

    Like Milky who has probably had a few fly up his nose while sitting in Lambton square eating his saveloy sandwiches for lunch.

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  75. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    I once chatted to Kea for half an hour on the ridge at the top of the Rainbow Skifield about 30 odd years ago Red.

    Still have trouble understanding anything the silly feathered bastard says? :)

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  76. Redbaiter (8,801 comments) says:

    Do you think he Kea understood you Johnboy?

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  77. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    @ Penny – had you not noticed that Parliament was in recess this week?

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  78. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    The one I chatted to seemed compos-mentis Red. Not sure about his great grandson! :)

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  79. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    Very unlikely KS. She hasn’t even noticed her overdue rates bill! :)

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  80. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    HOB(M) v Petone at Hutt Rec 3:00pm milkey! :)

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  81. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    Is Kea gone for good??

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  82. Left Right and Centre (2,975 comments) says:

    hj 10:33am – I hope people don’t miss the slightly subtle statistic that is they also tend to be younger parents and so were their parents. The result being they fill up the planet much more so than mere fertility rate alone would suggest.

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  83. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    If he had any brains he’d come back as a Kaka Longknives! :)

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  84. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    @Johnboy: Is the McBain Shield on the line today?

    When was the last time it sat in the cabinet at Myrtle Street for more than a ‘one off’…?

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  85. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    https://www.facebook.com/NZClubRugby/photos/a.528759793911814.1073741974.150674251720372/528760003911793/?type=1

    Sad…very sad Elaycee! :)

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  86. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    I blame the Catholics myself Elaycee! :)

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  87. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Yup… I’m all choked up too, Johnboy…. the HOBM jerseys are heinous!

    Did the colours run at the laundry?

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  88. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    The only colour they left out was yellow Elaycee….can’t understand that really! :)

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  89. wikiriwhis business (3,996 comments) says:

    Pennsylvania mom of 7 dies in jail over unpaid school-related fines

    PHILADELPHIA – A growing number of Americans are expressing outrage that a Pennsylvania mother of seven died in jail last weekend while serving a 48-hour sentence over unpaid, school truancy-related fines.

    Eileen DiNino, 55, was found dead last Saturday in her jail cell. Authorities don’t know the cause of death yet, they have ruled out suspicious behavior.

    DiNino was being penalized because several of her children routinely missed school. According to the Associated Press, “She had racked up $2,000 in fines, fees and court costs since 1999 as the Reading School District tried to keep her children in class, most recently at a vocational high school.”

    All told, DiNino “faced fines from nine active truancy cases, which spawned 55 citations,” the AP adds.

    The fines related to school truancy are quite small – perhaps $20 – but it’s the court-related costs that are most expensive, sometimes reaching $150. Such costs add up quickly and make it nigh impossible for low-income parents to pay.

    http://eagnews.org/pennsylvania-mom-of-7-dies-in-jail-over-unpaid-school-related-fines/

    Corprate and political greed is at the centre of this.

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  90. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    HOB would look a lot better without the green in the jerseys.

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  91. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    That may be so milkey. But the die is cast and Francis is a great Rugby supporter after all! :)

    http://www.tunbridgewells-ordinariate.com/blog/?p=9514

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  92. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    @Johnboy: It was just as bad when SPOB (Blue and white hoops) and Marist (green and white hoops) merged many moons ago – they ended up with a scarlet jersey!

    Reminds me… they also had Tu Wyllie (later to become an MP) wearing the No 10 jersey and he wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer… when MSP ran the ball from a ruck, Wyllie would shout at his halfback (Gerald Arthurs) “Tu 1″ if he was going left and “Tu 2″ if he was going right. Not only did we all hear it (and could defend accordingly), the spectators in the stand could hear him too…. even radio commentator John Howson mentioned he could hear the calls one afternoon on 2ZB.

    And yet Wyllie became an MP…… in Winston’s outfit. 8O

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  93. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Will he be supporting England or New Zealand, you reckon?

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  94. Left Right and Centre (2,975 comments) says:

    Get your steaming hot GD waffle . . .

    (1) Prediction, future violent crime headlines based on current downward trends: 2019: dairy owner murdered by gang of 8 and 9 year olds in Henderson after suffering multiple fatal stab wounds to upper thighs and buttocks.

    (2) Someone tell me the legality of ‘decorative’ vehicle lights that I see in the grille / under front bumper etc ? Seems to be heaps of them.

    (3) GD sport: (i) Poofball world cup – you could’ve knocked them over with a feather. Or thin air. The fake diving ruins it 100% (ii) A lot of informed news followers will know that tennis world number one Rafael Nadal won French Open number nine recently. Less well known is his even more recent straight sets loss to the equally less well known current world no. 82 Dustin Brown at Nadal’s first warm-up match on grass leading into Wimbledon. I’m sure Rafa always gives his 100% best no matter the size of the occasion.

    Roadlice Report: Oh, just the usual – lowlife driving light truck and texting. One white fella on a nifty fifty who had a young girl – about 6 or 7 looked like – riding passenger seated in *front* of him so that his arms held handlebars around her body. I’m fairly fucking certain you won’t see that in user’s manual anywhere – third world styles.

    Weight management confessional: Forgive me for I have sinned. Cadbury Favourites loose 99c / 100g. I got more go on Moro like you’ve never seen. 800g – holy shit !! I even pedalled my arse back for more. You know what stopped me in the end believe it or not ? Money. Even at fuck all per kilo it racks up. I left empty-handed but it was a moral victory – hahahaha.

    What’s that Russ ? STFU vermin and get a job cunt ? Yeah, yeah. Will do.

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  95. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    It might be a bit late to get him to pray for your chaps today against the infidel Petoneites of course! :)

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  96. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    No divine assistance will be required.

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  97. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    Julia Gillard’s ex boyfriend

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  98. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    20 minutes to go milkey! :)

    What’s your pick at William Jones today?

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  99. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    Alan jones talks to the broadcaster [Michael Smith] about the latest evidence to the building industry royal commission {Australia]
    http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/48821#.U5uz7RZ63yF

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  100. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Tawa due to come back into some form, surely.

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  101. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    Hopefully not. Fighting us on our home turf won’t be easy and they have to realise there’s only one road out of the valley so I suspect they will capitulate! :)

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  102. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    We’ll soon know.

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  103. Dead Earnest (160 comments) says:

    Regarding the Maori seats if National ends up having to go into a coalition with NZF (perish the thought) it’s not imposible that NZF could make abolition of the Maori seats a condition.

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  104. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    Great article

    “The climate change crusaders, who have been at it for a quarter-century, appear to be going clinically mad. Start with the rhetorical monotony and worship of authority (“97 percent of all scientists agree!”), add the Salem witch trial-style intimidation and persecution of dissenters, and the categorical demand that debate about science or policy is over because the matter is settled, and you have the profile of a cult-like sectarianism that has descended into paranoia and reflexive bullying. Never mind the scattered and not fully suppressed findings of climate scientists that the narrative of catastrophic global warming is overstated, like nearly every previous predicted environmental apocalypse. It matters not. The recent crescendo of scary government climate reports and dutiful media alarm has paved the way for the Obama administration to throw its weight around in ways that would make Woodrow Wilson blush.”
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/climate-cultists_794401.html?page=1

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  105. goldnkiwi (1,303 comments) says:

    Herald. Today in Politics.

    I had to laugh at this, what a bizarre situation that Labour might signal its voters to….

    “No forced by-election for vacated Banks seat

    Labour has confirmed it won’t force a by-election after sole ACT MP John Banks officially quit Parliament yesterday.

    Leaving the seat empty required the support of 75 per cent of MPs, meaning National needed Labour’s agreement.

    But the position of its Epsom candidate Michael Wood is less clear. 

    Wood issued a new campaign flyer yesterday, but it doesn’t explicitly ask for the electorate vote.

    Labour won’t rule out giving a signal for strategic voting from its supporters for National’s Paul Goldsmith, in the event of another ‘‘cup of tea’’ deal is struck with ACT. “

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  106. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    13 to nil …..Wainui v Tawa! :)

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  107. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    “Wood issued a new campaign flyer yesterday, but it doesn’t explicitly ask for the electorate vote. ”

    Wood claims to want a contest on parties and policies and says Epsom voters don’t want a circus but he keeps clowning around. He may learnt his yeah/nah techniques off Cunliffe.

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  108. deadrightkev (465 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock

    “Is it time for New Zealand to have the debate over whether the Maori electorates are still required?”

    You feel you need to ask that question in 2014? If so it is obvious you haven’t been aware how badly New Zealanders have been conned with the Maori privilege that has been meted out since at least 1985. National has acted disgracefully in handing over the birth rights and property rights of all New Zealanders, national assets, in the main, which should have stayed right where they were for the benefit of all.

    Then National delivered us the Maori Statutory Board. To advance the interests of Maori in the Auckland region. Except ratepayers fund it. What a crock.

    Enough was enough long ago. Just wait until Ngapuhi pop up with their hand out for hundreds of millions. They invited the Crown to NZ twice to protect them and sold their land at market rates without doubt. Nobody bothers to check the facts because they are scared to be labelled racist. Ngapuhi have a claim to jack shit like all the others that have plundered us via the Waitangi Tribunal.

    I suspect a lot of voters will vote Conservative to dump the Maori seats, the Waitangi Tribunal and stop any more bleeding through these never ending template treaty scams.

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  109. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Don’t your crowd have your own party, One Law 4 All?

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  110. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Hey Johnboy, would I be correct that Hutt and Wainui are the only two unbeaten teams after two rounds? Hutt on top, of course.

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  111. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    National has acted disgracefully in handing over the birth rights and property rights of all New Zealanders, national assets, in the main, which should have stayed right where they were for the benefit of all.

    Darn those native people and their whole getting here first thing. It’s not fair.

    Enough was enough long ago. Just wait until Ngapuhi pop up with their hand out for hundreds of millions.

    Which they are entitled to. Isn’t Ngapuhi one of the last ones?

    I suspect a lot of voters will vote Conservative to dump the Maori seats, the Waitangi Tribunal and stop any more bleeding through these never ending template treaty scams.

    Last time I read their policy, it was less than half hearted about any of those things. I doubt they would happen, and they’re even less likely to happen because the Consos won’t get 5%. The only voters who will vote Conso to vote out Maori seats are the same ones that would vote for them in the first place. Hardly a win-win.

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  112. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    I’d never concede that you bloody pseudo Catholics should ever be allowed on top milkey. Look at all the conflict it causes’s when you think your one-up! :)

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  113. deadrightkev (465 comments) says:

    Tricky

    Except Maori weren’t here first and they ceded all rights to sovereignty forever. How they forget.

    When you know something about NZ history feel free to pop back with something intelligent to say.

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  114. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    Don’t your crowd have your own party, One Law 4 All?

    They still exist by the looks of things MM. Take a look at the photo bombs from their AGM. All greying bald white guys. Who would have ever guessed that a bunch of greying bald white guys could define “equal” laws for everyone?

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  115. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘Except Maori weren’t here first’
    What an ignoramus.

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  116. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    Except Maori weren’t here first and they ceded all rights to sovereignty forever. How they forget. When you know something about NZ history…

    According to your interpretation. It depends what you read, how you read it, and with what state of mind. If you go into it looking for trouble, you’ll always come out with trouble.

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  117. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    milkenmild, the fantasy of a pre Maori White Celtic NZ and associated conspiracies has a strong hold on the deluded .!

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  118. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    I should make it clear that my “according to your interpretation” was about ceding rights. Not the rest of it.

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  119. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    stephieboy
    It wouldn’t surprise me if Colin Carig subscribes to that nonsense. He seems particularly gullible.

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  120. Redbaiter (8,801 comments) says:

    When I read that a party has the name One Law For All, and those attacking it are calling others “white” guys, I know who the real racists are.

    Slimy sneaking duplicitous cowards of the left as usual.

    Why the deceit? Have the guts to just come out and admit that you’re anti-white racist scum.

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  121. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Reddy just can’t decide between voting for Colin Craig or John Ansell.

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  122. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    Anyone know what’s the story on these two dreadful creeps from the Waikato?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/10156897/MH370-No-accident-say-NZ-authors

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  123. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Well, Ewan Wilson’s got a track record, hasn’t he?

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  124. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    Reddy just can’t decide between voting for Colin Craig or John Ansell.

    Oh, I know MM, I know. Such a dilemma. I think I’d go for Craig – problem is that John Ansell is just a bit to much into the whacko conspiracies ;-)

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  125. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    Yeah but that’s got fuck all to do with accident investigation milkey?

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  126. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    Just hope the authors Flight 370 are not trying to peddle dumb conspiracy theories like the Rothchild’s backed patent etc,

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/malaysiapatent.asp

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  127. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    Gullible would be you idiots that swallow the treaty bullshite and the story that maori are put upon by colonization
    They committed an orgy of inter tribal genocide for forty years before law was enforced by the colonial powers Without the force of our laws they would still be busy killing and eating each other.
    The treaty apologist waffle on about the a few “lawless” settlers :lol: ignoring the genocide, cannibalism and slavery of the Maori
    bloody tribal rort the whole treaty farce.
    Maori have been paid for the land, often more than once coming to full and final settlement. We all know only the elites are benefiting. Next generation they will scream unfair and the whole process will start again.
    One law. one people. democracy for all. Not unelected tribal elites having overriding say on any aspect of life in NZ
    Boot the unelected Maori authority out of Auckland council and stop the iwi gravy trains of consultation and koha to calm their boogy monsters.

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  128. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    You and Chrissie Finlayson should set up a meet Griff! :)

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  129. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    Maori have been paid for the land, often more than once coming to full and final settlement.

    This gets quoted and quoted over and over again. But I’ve never seen any evidence. Got some?

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  130. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    “They committed an orgy of inter tribal genocide for forty years before law was enforced by the colonial powers Without the force of our laws they would still be busy killing and eating each other.”

    But..But.. Our kids are being taught in Schools that our beloved ‘Tangata Whenua’ were a beautiful, peace-loving people who lived at one with nature…and this idyllic society was ruined by those evil Colonial ‘Whiteys’ turning up and making war!
    Surely our teachers wouldn’t lie to our kids??

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  131. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    That’s a tough one for the little white kids Longknives when they get beaten up by the big brown kids who want to steal their lunch! :)

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  132. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    Dont think so jb I don’t want to do time for kicking the wankers teeth out his arse showing him what I think of the treaty process .

    Friends, formerly we, the Maoris, lived alone in New Zealand;
    we did wrong one to another, we ate one another, we exterminated one another.
    Some had deserted the land, some were enslaved, the remnant that were spared
    went to seek other lands”.

    “Now this was the arrangement of this Ngatiawa land. Mokau was
    the boundary on the north, Ngamotu on the south; beyond was Taranaki and
    Ngatiruanui. All was quiet deserted; the land, the sea, the streams, the lakes,
    the forests, the rocks, were deserted; the food, the property, the work was
    deserted; the dead and sick were deserted; the landmarks were deserted”.

    “Then came the Pakeha hither by sea from other dwellings, they
    came to this land and the Maori allowed them – they came by chance to this place
    – they came to a place whose inhabitants had left it. There were few men here –
    the men were a remnant, a handful returned from slavery”.

    “And the Pakeha asked, where are the men of this place? And
    they answered, they have been driven away by war, we few have come back from
    another land. And the Pakeha said, are you willing to sell us this land. And
    they replied, we are willing to sell it that it may not be barren; presently our
    enemies will come, and our places will be taken from us again”.

    “So payment was made; it was not said, let the place be taken,
    although the men were few; the Pakeha did not say, let it be taken, but the land
    was quietly paid for”.

    “Now the Pakeha thoroughly occupied the purchases made with
    their money; and the Maoris living in the land of bondage, and those who had
    fled, heard that the land had been occupied and they said, Ah! Ah! the land has
    revived, let us return to the land. So they returned. Their return was in a
    friendly manner. Their thought of the Pakeha was, let us dwell together , let us
    work together”.

    “The Maoris began to dispute with the Pakeha. When the Governor
    saw this he removed the Pakeha to one spot to dwell. Afterwards the Pakeha made
    a second payment for the land, and afterwards a third; and then I said, Ah! Ah!
    Very great indeed is the goodness of the Pakeha, he has not said that the
    payment ceases at the first time”.

    “My friends the Pakeha, wholy through you this land and the men
    of this land have become independent; do not say that I have seen this your
    goodness to day for the first time. I knew it formally, at the coming here of
    Governor Grey, I was urgent that the land might be surendered and paid for by
    him; that we might live here together, we the Maori and the Pakeha. And my
    urgency did not end there but through the days of Governor
    Grey……………..”.

    This letter was
    written by the warrior chief Ihaia Kirikumara and his friend Tamati Tiraura at
    Waitara on 15 July 1860 and records that the land in that area was paid for
    three times over.

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  133. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    But..But.. Our kids are being taught in Schools that our beloved ‘Tangata Whenua’ were a beautiful, peace-loving people who lived at one with nature

    Pretty sure NCEA level History teaches students about the tribal self decimation. When you live off the land you have no other choice but to “be at one with nature” otherwise you shit in your own nest, so to speak. Again, got any evidence for your ranting or is just what posters here tell you happens?

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  134. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    http://www.nzgeographic.co.nz/archives/issue-95/darwin

    “Ashore, Darwin’s disparaging eye found much to disdain. Compared to the Tahitians’ “pleasant, airy abodes”, Maori whare, which Darwin likened to “a cow-shed with one end open” were “filthily dirty & offensive”. As specimens of humanity, Tahitians were “the finest men I have ever beheld”, he wrote. New Zealanders (as Darwin referred to Maori—that word not yet being in wide circulation) possessed a character of “a much lower order”. “One glance at their respective expressions,” noted the naturalist, “brings conviction to the mind that one is a savage, the other a civilised man”.”

    I guess Darwin was wrong then??

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  135. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    “written by the warrior chief Ihaia Kirikumara and his friend Tamati Tiraura at
    Waitara on 15 July 1860 and records that the land in that area was paid for
    three times over.”

    But..but…but…That before youse honkies discovered the oil eh’ bro! :)

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  136. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    “When you live off the land you have no other choice but to “be at one with nature” otherwise you shit in your own nest”

    Or you could go to war with a neighboring tribe, then cook and eat their children??

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  137. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    I’ll have that little girls leg Longknives…looks well done to me. …..Love a bit of crackling eh’ cuz! :)

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  138. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Longknives, Darwin was probably referring to both Pakeha and Maori, after all we were prepared to kill Maori for their land just as they were each other in their inter iwi conflict.

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  139. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    I guess Darwin was wrong then??

    Sorry, are we proving here that NZ teachers don’t lecture about inter-tribal warfare, or that Darwin was grumpy and didn’t like NZ when he got here? Not quite sure what you’re trying to say?

    Repeat: I am pretty sure NCEA level History teaches students about the tribal self decimation.

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  140. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Griff, one case of Maori selling their land more than once does not mean all Maori land was paid for before being taken off iwi.

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  141. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    Don’t talk crap when you obviously have no idea of the spin the apologist in education place on the whole farce
    The treaty te ara the official resource for teaching.
    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/treaty-of-waitangi/page-1

    New Zealand before the treaty

    In the 1830s an independent, Māori-controlled New Zealand was a frontier outpost of the British penal colony of New South Wales. As New Zealand’s trade and shipping expanded, relations between Māori and Europeans depended on a good working accord, but violence sometimes flared up. British law did not extend to controlling unruly British subjects in New Zealand, so some European residents asked the British government to intervene to maintain order. It was reluctant to do so

    No mention of the slaughter of at lest 25,000 Maori in inter tribal warfare just a few isolated settlers being unlawful

    The British government was more concerned by other developments. European speculators were reported to have purchased vast areas of New Zealand. At the same time the London-based New Zealand Company had firm plans for organised settlement in New Zealand. In 1839 the company prepared to buy land on either side of the Cook Strait, and dispatched ships there carrying several hundred settlers.

    Most land was actually brought and occupied by the christian missions at this time.
    There were also a group of Maori selling the same land repeatedly recorded in new south whales at the time
    spin and bullshit is what kids are taught

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  142. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I guess Griff will justify the confiscations next.

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  143. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Will griff trust the academic consensus on the issue of iwi land, sales and confiscation?

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  144. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    Another resource used for the later years in eduction
    history NZhttp://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/treaty/treaty-timeline/treaty-events-1800-1849
    Treaty events 1800-49 – Treaty timeline

    5 May 1833 Busby becomes official British ResidentBusby becomes official British Resident
    21 May 1840 Hobson proclaims British sovereignty over NZHobson proclaims British sovereignty over NZ
    19 January 1845 Hōne Heke cuts down the British flagstaff – againHōne Heke cuts down the British flagstaff – again
    11 March 1845 The fall of Kororāreka The fall of Kororāreka

    For more information about the years before the Treaty of Waitangi see topics under Pre-1840 contact.
    1814 First mission

    Reverend Samuel Marsden of the Church Missionary Society preached the first sermon in New Zealand, on Christmas Day 1814. Three lay missionaries, William Hall, Thomas Kendall and John King, helped him set up the first mission in New Zealand, at Rangihoua. The local chief, Ruatara, who had met Marsden on a ship returning to Australia from England, interpreted the sermon for Māori.
    1831 Māori petition the British government

    Growing lawlessness among Europeans in New Zealand and fears of a French annexation of the country led 13 northern chiefs to ask King William IV for his protection. Missionary William Yate helped the chiefs draft the letter to the King. The Crown acknowledged the petition and promised protection.
    1833 British Resident arrives

    To protect Māori, the growing number of British settlers and its own trade interest, the British government appointed James Busby as its official British Resident – a type of junior consular representative with little power. He arrived in May 1833 and built a house on land he bought at Waitangi.
    1835 Declaration of Independence

    He Wakaputanga o te Rangatiratanga o Nu Tirene (the Declaration of Independence of New Zealand) was drawn up by British Resident James Busby without authorisation from his superiors. It asserted the independence of New Zealand, with all sovereign power and authority resting with the hereditary chiefs and tribes. By 1839 the declaration had been signed by 52 Māori chiefs.
    1837 Britain decides to establish a colony

    In December 1837 the British government decided in principle to intervene in New Zealand to ensure that colonisation was regulated and that land transactions that defrauded Māori were stopped. The government had initially tried to avoid assuming responsibility. Instead it had attempted to influence the interaction of Māori and British settlers through the missionaries and by sending British Resident James Busby to work with chiefs. In mid-1839 the British government decided to annex at least part of New Zealand to New South Wales.
    1839 Tory sets sail

    The first of the New Zealand Company ships, the Tory, set sail for New Zealand in May 1839. The company had an ambitious plan to settle New Zealand, and its agents aboard the Tory were to buy land at Port Nicholson (Wellington Harbour). The first shiploads of company emigrants left for New Zealand in September 1839.
    1839 Consul appointed

    The British government appointed William Hobson as consul to New Zealand in 1839. Hobson was instructed to obtain sovereignty over all or part of New Zealand with the consent of a sufficient number of chiefs. New Zealand would come under the authority of George Gipps, the governor of New South Wales, and Hobson would become Gipps’ lieutenant-governor. Land-buying agents continued swarming over New Zealand in anticipation of purchases.

    still no mention of the slaughter of 1/4 to 1/2 the population by genocidal warfare at the time.

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  145. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Did you miss this part of the encyclopedia, Griff?
    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/musket-wars

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  146. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    Or you could go to war with a neighboring tribe, then cook and eat their children??

    I guess when all else fails you can pull out the blood libel. I imagine if you did any sort of research into it, you’d eventually find ancestors of yours who were cannibals – I wouldn’t try to take the moral high ground on that one.

    It’s clear you’ve got a bee in your bonnet, you should acknowledge it before it eats you up from the inside (pun intended)

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  147. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    And did you miss this bit too?
    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/new-zealands-19th-century-wars/the-musket-wars

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  148. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    itstricky- So Darwin was “Grumpy” and simply made up that nasty stuff about Maori then? That makes perfect sense…
    Can’t have anyone saying anything adverse about our precious ‘Tangata Whenua’ now- can we??
    *Oh and I was at University nearly twenty years ago- and they were teaching that the Pre-Colonial Maori was pretty much the peaceful ‘Noble Savage’ then..I also remember a guy got in trouble for challenging the ‘Sainthood’ of Rua Kenana at a History tutorial! How dare he suggest there were two sides to the story??

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  149. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    Mike the land was confiscated after repeated warnings that continued terrorist action would result in its seizure.
    I have read the literature available extensively in the original form in particular work published before 1840 and no I don’t agree with the one sided apologist revision of the actual history and neither do quite a few historians.
    Paul moon and Michael King being two that have been in disagreement with the rubbish written by the like of orange and embellish.

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  150. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    So you actually have no complaints that Te Ara and nzhistorynet have missed out the Musket Wars?

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  151. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    “Longknives, Darwin was probably referring to both Pakeha and Maori, after all we were prepared to kill Maori for their land just as they were each other in their inter iwi conflict.”

    Umm- No it’s pretty clear who he is talking about…
    Sweet Jesus you were grasping at straws with that call!

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  152. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    itstricky- So Darwin was “Grumpy” and simply made up that nasty stuff about Maori then? That makes perfect sense…

    Not what I said. I questioned why you answered my assertion with a random quote from Darwin. Again, I said:

    Do teachers lecture about the tribal decimation, and the really bad things that happened, or not? Come on… buddy… answer the question.

    To help you:

    As Griff said nzhistory.net.nz was used in education, here’s another one:

    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/culture/maori-european-contact-before-1840/the-boyd-incident

    It even (for your delight) mentions cannibalism and the challenging the status of “noble savage”

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  153. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    So mikenmild was spot on in his 6.30pm post.

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  154. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Longknives, how was it pretty clear – he compared the Tahitians to New Zealanders. To this day those from the UK have expressed disdain for our demeanour (especially of the rugby crowd) and our quality of housing.

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  155. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    And did you miss this bit too?
    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/new-zealands-19th-century-wars/the-musket-wars
    The kids are taught the treaty as I posted not the musket wars mike no mention at all in the bit they are encouraged to read and tested on.

    Thousands of Maori died

    Tens of thousands as I just posted between twenty five and fifty percent of the total population this is spin to minimize the impact

    in the intertribal Musket Wars of the 1810s, 1820s and 1830s. Many more were enslaved or became
    refugees. Northern rivals Ngāpuhi and Ngāti Whātua led the way, but all the tribes were soon trading for muskets.
    Muskets (ngutu parera) changed the face of intertribal warfare, decimating some tribes and drastically altering the rohe (territorial boundaries) of others. By the 1830s campaigns had become too costly. With European diseases also taking a heavy toll,

    fucken bullshit the number killed in warfare and the resultant starvation and slavery was many times those who died from western diseases as one noted historian wrote in a report to the waitangi tribunal. He was told if he did not bullshit about this point he wouldn’t get paid. Very few died from disease the population was to scattered to allow epidemics to take hold.

    warfare gave way to economic rivalry.

    nope warfare continued into the eighties

    By this time thousands of Māori had fled their traditional lands, freeing large areas for Pākehā (European) settlement and complicating questions of ownership

    . The Maori did not “own” land they occupied it until a stronger force took it from them. Ownership was not a concept they had in respect to land..

    Load of apologist spin and tripe feed to kids and adults who are sucked in to the whole myth.

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  156. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    “To this day those from the UK have expressed disdain for our demeanour (especially of the rugby crowd) ”

    Speaking of which- I am predicting a terrified referee will bail out the All Blacks yet again tonight! Making it a hat-trick of extremely dubious victories for the self-professed “Greatest Sports Team in the History of the Universe”..

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  157. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    Load of apologist spin and tripe feed to kids and adults who are sucked in to the whole myth

    So all these people got together:

    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/meet-the-nzhistory-team

    And decided to spin it?

    You’re beginning to sound like some of the climate deniers that you deride regularly.

    I’d like to know what your sources are. John Ansell, by any chance?

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  158. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    There is always an injustice involved when land stolen from Maori is used for Pakeha sports. The thief can never enjoy the fruits of owning an honest victory.

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  159. nasska (11,469 comments) says:

    ….”Load of apologist spin and tripe feed to kids and adults who are sucked in to the whole myth.”….

    I don’t know what they teach at primary school but when you get kids coming home & spouting garbage about the poor Maori who had their land stolen you can bet your left one that some bleeding heart socialist pedagogue is spinning a line.

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  160. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Maori land was stolen. But some Pakeha parents want to lie to their children about that.

    They are no better than those who want to indoctrinate their children into creation science.

    They are just as bad as each other.

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  161. nasska (11,469 comments) says:

    Don’t forget that this Maori victimhood tripe was started fifty years ago. In that time peer pressure & ideology has seen the academic world overrun with socialists & social engineers.

    They self select so now it is hard to find anyone to express a dissenting opinion. eg Greg Newbold is the only non crim cuddling criminologist in his field.

    It is this clique that is rewriting history & making sure the message is spread.

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  162. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    To put the manic slaughter into focus
    it is esteemed that around two thousand smoked heads were exported from nz in the early period.
    That represent mostly the slaves tattooed then killed for curio market.

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  163. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    nasska- I have a friend (who is a bit of a lefty) with two young Primary School children. Even he has expressed dismay that his kids “are learning more bloody Maori than they are English” at school and quite rightly queries how this will benefit them in the future..
    And this coming from a lifelong Labour voter! The Education system is sick and beyond repair- those poor bloody kids…(and this poor bloody country!)

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  164. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    Longknives

    Yes, I imagine that the NZRU have made tonight’s ref very sure that he is blessed to be in control of the worlds greatest sporting team and made very sure that the ref knows what is expected of him.

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  165. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    Speaking of the Rugby, if the English number 7 totally outplays the NZ number 7 again this week will any of our media feel brave enough to point it out?

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  166. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    So, I’ve got two things out of this:

    (a) There is no evidence of tribes being “double paid” under Treaty Negotiations
    (b) There is no evidence to suggest that teachers paint historical pre-contact Maori as “peace loving people”

    Glad we sorted that out. Good evening, Gentlemen.

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  167. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    Griff resource for early nz history.
    thanks cha for showing me this resource
    http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/browse.php
    when you have read it come back and argue the facts buddy.

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  168. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    You think someone is denying there was a trade in heads, Griff?

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  169. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    “Maori land was stolen”

    Bollocks it was!

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  170. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    OK, time to put the jug on and turn down the volume on the TV as we bore the visiting team with two versions of our bloody awful national anthem and then demand that they stand there while we poke out tongues out at them.

    Why don’t we just have an instrumental anthem and let everybody sing what ever fucking version they want?, and, if we must do the rain dance then why not do it in the dressing room?

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  171. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Longknives, bollocks it was, is not a denial nor a refutation that Maori land was stolen.

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  172. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    nasska- I have a friend (who is a bit of a lefty) with two young Primary School children. Even he has expressed dismay that his kids “are learning more bloody Maori than they are English” at school and quite rightly queries how this will benefit them in the future..

    Not all learning is about how many dollars it gets in your pocket. Well rounded individuals realise that. Self centred ones don’t. Good evening, again, Gentlemen.

    PS. Glad you could answer my challenge (wero) to describe how teachers were avoiding lecturing kids about the tribal self decimation.

    Just in time for the haka… …boom boom

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  173. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Big bruv, when all Maori land claims have been settled you can get over the self loathing of being a New Zealander.

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  174. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    Read my
    Griff (6,362 comments) says:
    June 14th, 2014 at 6:08 pm
    its a Maori writing about the land in taranaki and it detains it being sold three times. since then the Maori in the region have had two settlements

    http://www.library.auckland.ac.nz/subject-guides/maori/guides/maori-land-timeline.html

    1928 Sim Commission investigates confiscations.
    1929 Native Land Amendment and Native Land Claims Adjustment Act Provides for large-scale devlopment schemes.
    Apirana Ngata continues large-scale depression era schemes to develop unproductive Maori land using unemployed Maori labour.
    Government schemes to promote consolidation of uneconomic interests in different blocks of land to create viable farming units.
    1936 Native Land Amendment Act Crown land can be included in development schemes. 1938 Social welfare policies of Labour government provide substantial pensions, child benefits, cheap housing in rural areas.
    1944 Ngaitahu Claim Settlement Act “Final settlement” over Crown purchases in 1848. Ngai Tahu Trust Board.
    1944 Taranaki Maori Claims Settlement Act “Final settlement” of claims over 1863 confiscation. Taranaki Maori Trust Board
    1946 Waikato-Maniapoto Maori Claims Settlement Act “Final settlement” of confiscation claims. Tainui Maori Trust Board.

    . you are the one with no knowledge about nz history obviously.
    As to the warnings given if the terrorism and warfare continued they are available from Parliament if you care to look.

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  175. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    Come on England!!!

    McCaw misses a tackle that a child should have made.

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  176. edhunter (546 comments) says:

    how was that not a double movement? He promoted the ball!

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  177. edhunter (546 comments) says:

    Oh & BB after your post this morning why are you even watching this game?

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  178. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    ed

    I love sport, granted it is bloody embarrassing watching the NZ team strut around like they mean something but I will always watch top sport. Plus I really love watching the NZ team lose or watching the ref bending the rules of the game to accommodate an unworthy NZ win.

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  179. wikiriwhis business (3,996 comments) says:

    Elizabeth Mueller:‎TPP Threatens Our Human Rights. It’s an anti sovereignty agreement.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152448081214431&set=gm.465057506971694&type=1&theater

    Don’t miss our guest speaker this week. He’s read the full TPP text…
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130622/01545623580/rep-alan-grayson-ive-seen-details-there-is-no-reason-to-keep-tpp-secret.shtml

    Register here! –v
    https://www.anymeeting.com/AccountManager/RegEv.aspx?PIID=EA57DE8382493D

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  180. edhunter (546 comments) says:

    As an aside why is it only union & league that appear to bastardize the field with “sponsors adverts” ? Drink Stein Grenades then drive home in your Falcoon.
    I must disclose at this point that I do like Steinies & do drive a falcon, none of that heinekin or dunnydoors for this ex westie.

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  181. Tauhei Notts (1,711 comments) says:

    I note the big decrease in English rugby betting now that the World Cup has started. Betfair is decidedly quiet.

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  182. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Old man mccaw is done.

    Corey Jane needs to go.

    Back three – savea, piutau, smith.

    Kaino a fucking monster. Back to 6. Read at 8. Cane at 7 til savea is ready!

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  183. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    Dead right dime

    McCaw is a passenger.

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  184. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    Bruv- Why even bother watching? I told you the result at 7:12pm!!
    All Blacks narrowly escape defeat yet again with the assistance of a terrified referee..Yawn!

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  185. Hair Removal Specialist (80 comments) says:

    And Barrett in for cruden

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  186. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    mikenmild (9,950 comments) says:
    June 14th, 2014 at 6:49 pm
    So you actually have no complaints that Te Ara and nzhistorynet have missed out the Musket Wars?

    nz historynet missed out the Musket Wars,

    Not here,

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  187. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/musket-wars/overview

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  188. Hair Removal Specialist (80 comments) says:

    Was the ref terrified, or just an awful call for the yellow?

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  189. RF (1,396 comments) says:

    After the bloody stupid war dance I watched a film. Pretend savages by a bunch of has Beens…. I am sure they will stagger through to a win. How boring.

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  190. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    28 – 13. 13 mins to go.

    beats the shit out of the boring hair pulling round ball crap.

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  191. Tauhei Notts (1,711 comments) says:

    How many of you remember the Warriors in the late nineties.
    Whenever there was a 50/50 call it ALWAYS went against the Warriors.
    Well, I am beginning to think that teams that play the All Blacks are treated similarly.

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  192. RF (1,396 comments) says:

    The majority of the ABs look like extras from the Movie.. Plant of the Apes.

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  193. Nostradamus (3,320 comments) says:

    Big Bruv:

    You do realise that Richie McCaw is a personal friend of Dad4Justice, right?

    You’d better watch out!

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  194. RF (1,396 comments) says:

    Just flicked over to the game as it was finishing. PATHETIC !!!!

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  195. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Ikystricky
    Pretty sure NCEA level History teaches students about the tribal self decimation. When you live off the land you have no other choice but to “be at one with nature” otherwise you shit in your own nest, so to speak. Again, got any evidence for your ranting or is just what posters here tell you happens?
    ………………..
    The prevailing view among archeologists is that the moas, large flightless birds indigenous to New Zealand, were gradually hunted to extinction after the arrival of the Maoris. However, as Diamond explains in a lively Perspective, new findings (Holdaway and Jacomb) suggest that the moas became extinct within 100 years of the arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand, ten times more quickly than previously thought. Apparently, their slow reproductive rate meant that they were unable to replace their brethren killed by Maori hunters, resulting in their rapid extinction.
    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/287/5461/2170.summary
    ………………….
    Polynesian people began burning the forests of the South Island of New Zealand almost as soon as they arrived about 800 years ago, researchers have found.

    Within as little as 200 years, they had removed 40% of the moist closed canopy forests of the South Island, according to research published today in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
    http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/12/14/3092679.htm

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  196. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    longknives

    I agree, the game got awfully close there for a while so the ref thought he need to even things up a bit by sending one of the Poms to the bun for ten mins. You would also not be surprised to hear that the NZ team were allowed to pass the ball forward for some reason.

    The Poms were robbed, they are a far better team and far more modest than the arrogant and outplayed NZ team.

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  197. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    Nos

    I did factor that into my comment. By the way, have you seen much of D4J this week?, I do hope that he has not been “detained” again for any reason .

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  198. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    Colville

    “beats the shit out of the boring hair pulling round ball crap.”

    Feeling a bit threatened are you?

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  199. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Lol that aussie ref is hilarious. He basically said no need to ground the ball to score a try.

    England are a good side. Boks may kill us this year.

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  200. Nostradamus (3,320 comments) says:

    Dad4Justice seems to have gone rather quiet. But he did say he’d found productive employment. Small blessings for taxpayers, I guess!

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  201. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    Nos

    Oh come on now!

    Who the hell would employ him given his history?

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  202. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Wonder how the Greens are progressing with their treaty policy

    One of jh’s themes has been dis-satisfaction with the Green Party for not being specific about the outcomes of our policy in relation to the Treaty. “What, specifically, will this country be like if we go down this course?”. It’s a question I have heard many times over the years, and it usually speaks from a position of fear and insecurity for Pakeha: what if I’ll be worse off? or even what if there’s no place for me?
    I want to acknowledge that actually we are asking people to do something (and we are doing it too) quite different from what we usually ask with our policy. Normally we have a very clear idea of the outcome we are seeking, and establish a policy to reflect how we will get there.
    But the Treaty is different. The words all have the potential to sound pretty hammy, but fundamentally the outcome being sought is a process: the process of absolute good faith negotiation, in which we Pakeha engage from a position of honour – acting ethically and morally.
    That process involves courage because we don’t know the outcome (and because we know we have it pretty sweet just how things are, let’s be honest). It is pretty scary, but it’s also pretty damn exciting!

    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2010/05/03/my-speech-at-blackball-2010/

    when itstricky types start beating up on the European ask them what they want done. Remember Shylock was awarded a pound of flesh but wasn’t allowed to draw any blood.

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  203. Nostradamus (3,320 comments) says:

    Here you go Big Bruv – a government department apparently…

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  204. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    The itsricky party

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  205. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    Nos

    Goodness me!

    Care to have an educated guess as to what that government department might be?

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  206. Nostalgia-NZ (5,191 comments) says:

    Another fantastic loss by the poms, I hope Canterbury take it easy on them or they will probably pack a sad and go home before the 3rd test.

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  207. Nostradamus (3,320 comments) says:

    Big Bruv:

    I suppose you have to start from the premise that he was most eminently qualified for the job. That should narrow the field down a bit…

    Anyway, what do people think about the narrow margin of victory over England? Coming on top of last week’s result too.

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  208. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    Good game.
    How did the TMO allow the ref to award a try when he said the ball wasnt down?

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  209. MT_Tinman (3,184 comments) says:

    big bruv (12,691 comments) says:
    June 14th, 2014 at 9:45 pm
    Nos

    Goodness me!

    Care to have an educated guess as to what that government department might be?

    Department of Corrections (New Zealand) ?

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  210. Griff (7,679 comments) says:

    Stephie
    This has been revised from the previous underestimation of up to 20,000 Since I last read it.
    they now put this

    Although estimates vary, the deaths caused by these conflicts may have exceeded the 18,500 New Zealand lives lost in the First World War.. At a time when the total population was perhaps only 100,000 (compared to around a million in 1914-18), the Musket Wars had a massive impact on these islands.

    King in his nz history places the number at at least 20,000 and probably far more .
    other historians have placed the number as far greater and the literature at the time gives the number at up to fifty thousand.

    By the 1830s campaigns had become too costly. With European diseases also taking a heavy toll, warfare gave way to economic rivalry.

    The diseases its bumpkin without support in the history or any believable basses in medicine The Maori people were very finely spread there was just not the population density or movement of persons to allow epidemics to develop. Some Maori around the settlements did get western aliments but inland they were not exposed to the them for decades yet many had yet to even see white people before 1840 .

    In 1835 Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama took the fighting offshore when they devastated pacifist Moriori during their invasion of Rēkohu, the Chatham Islands.

    the moriori did not fight they were just slaughtered like animals.They staked the woman along a beach and let them drown as the tide came in

    The fact that maori were quite happy to kill baby’s to speed their escape had a very negative effect on the population demographics as well leaving a entire generation of children decimated as at 1840

    Spin buddy the genocide should be included in the history of the treaty taught. The chiefs sighing had just seen forty years of warfare and slaughter it must have been a huge motivation for the treaty being sighed properly the main one. also think about at most 2,000 settlers and the reality of being surrounded by 50,000 to 80,000 well armed and battle proven Maori
    Read the history around the time and learn about the missioners and settlers and what was happening at Russel
    it buts the perspective of the “unlawful settlers” in a new light when you understand where the claims originated from and the dynamics between the catholic, Methodist and Anglican missions and the settlers, whalers, sealers and timber men.

    the final passage in that history of the musket wars is
    Setting aside their impact on internal Māori politics, the Musket Wars – and in particular the unease of British authorities at the participation of traders in them – contributed to the decision to colonize New Zealand in 1840.

    Again were is the mention of the wars impact for Maori when it came to sighing the treaty and again they paint the settlers as evil gun runners with no actual context.
    The Maori were begging for guns read the story of hongi hika http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongi_Hika
    it was not gun running settlers as spun but gun begging Maori.
    .
    Read this resource up to the 1840s as I have and you can see a lot of the apologist colonial guilt driven spin is absolute fantasy at best.

    http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/browse.php

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  211. Nostalgia-NZ (5,191 comments) says:

    He was certainly confused about that Colville, maybe he’s been watching gridiron. It was a good game, the AB forwards coming into their own. Retallick dominating our throws and a couple of wins of their ball, scrum stronger – one for the books. Hard to see how Ben Smith can be displaced from fullback now, and the half needs more protection with maybe Slade a run at first five.

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  212. wikiriwhis business (3,996 comments) says:

    We don’t have a world cup team yet

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  213. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    Tinman

    Yes, that had crossed my mind. The obvious question then becomes what side of the wire?

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  214. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Slade? Are you on drugs? Or are you a cantab?

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  215. Nostalgia-NZ (5,191 comments) says:

    His super rugby form has been very good, and he’s playing with time on his side. That’s what the ABs needed in the halves tonight. I could see his inside partner getting a call up for the dead rubber but probably Hansen may stick with the tried and true even though they’ve been off in the halves for 2 games now.

    Bit of a poor show by the ref penalising the ABs for cheating in the first 15 minutes.

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  216. Hair Removal Specialist (80 comments) says:

    Slade has played well in super 15, but Barrett has played much better

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  217. Nostalgia-NZ (5,191 comments) says:

    The coaches see Barrett as an impact player, it’s worked over many tests now. Slade been a starting first five in the past, much like an opening batsman compared to a down the order prolific scorer.

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  218. Left Right and Centre (2,975 comments) says:

    All blacks win despite patchy bumbling error strewn shoddy performance. Almost beat themselves.

    Ben Smith – great cover defence tackle on 110kg at full pelt Manu Tuilagi. I love Cory Jane but he was shit last night. Jerome Kaino played well I thought.

    They didn’t play well as a team. Looked disjointed. Funny watching Tuilagi trick pass to create England’s late consolation try – looked like something the ABs would do.

    You’d think that after Tuilagi near single-handedly consigned the ABs to a comprehensive defeat in England that they would be all over him like white on rice marking up, shutting him down, containing him. But no. He seemed to be allowed to roam free and cause damage no trouble – again. He’s not that bloody good – no-one is – especially playing the ABs you’d think – think Lomu never scoring a try against South Africa. And the worst part is he’s playing NZ players at their own game – his style is totally NZ running rugby / offload / take it to the line hard or run gaps / angles. It’s not as if he’s some queer unpredictible frog.

    Typical example of a night where it didn’t come off like it should have: Cruden trying to tip the ball on left to right – you know – instead of taking the dumb boring option of catching the ball, taking the tackle and trying to retain possession. Lost forward. Geez – if you can’t pull off the tricks save them for your youtube videos. Cory Jane in midfield – I’ll just run straight into two big England players two metres in front of me. Bye bye possession. They’re not mugs at the tackle and breakdown – should show some respect and don’t get caught held up with the ball off the ground for these fellas to pick you off like that. Too easy – bread and butter to them. I expect a lot of Cory Jane – I think he’s the kind of bloke that ‘thinks of everything’ before it happens or can happen so I hate seeing him put himself in a two on one and getting cleaned up.

    Considering that the total available playing time is 80 mins and stuff all of that time is the ball actually in play – think about how many basic unforced errors were happening. It must be tough being Steve Hansen watching your charges fuck it up with a sadly reliable consistency. Can’t blame the coach for poor execution by so-called ‘top highly-paid highly-trained naturally talented and driven sports professionals’.

    Yellow card for the English player was joke and top level rugby is marred by these soft sinbinnings. I’m sure it used to be that if a player was yellow-carded it was a big deal. Now – you just expect it to happen every game. Teams probably train around it happening every game. It’s becoming a bit of a 14 man game these days.

    TMO – video technology again just a joke. You need sensors on the ball to detect downward pressure. The answer lies in yet more technology seeing as somehow even with the benefit of frame by frame replays these dickheads still can’t get something so bloody simple right. In the context of the match I thought it might just about cancel out the England player yellow carded or something.

    You’d better hope that the ABs are playing like shit – because if that’s their best it’s going to be a long frustrating international season for the diehards.

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  219. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    After being under the hammer for the first fifteen minutes the All Blacks fought their way into the game and dominated England for most of the second half. The score was close but it flattered England, one try awarded that was dubious at best and their last try was helped substantially by consecutive scrum penalties that could easily have gone the other way. England looked like they screwed the scrum several times under pressure and were given penalties.

    So a deserved and well won victory for the ABs.

    But this is a different England team, one that can score tries from anywhere so they will always be potentially dangerous. The third test is anyone’s game.

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