General Debate 25 June 2014

June 25th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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228 Responses to “General Debate 25 June 2014”

  1. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    First!!!

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  2. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    A good way to begin the day Colin Craig meme contest,

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/06/colin-craig-meme-contest/

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  3. Odakyu-sen (646 comments) says:

    You’re on a roll, mikenmild. Another 18 ticks (is the target 20?) and your comment will change colour to yellow. On the other hand, the KB population, if they so desire, could vote negatively to try and turn you pink.

    What colour (if any) will you end up?

    (Does anyone even care?)

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  4. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    Odakyu-sen,

    (Does anyone even care?)

    You as well.?

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  5. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    May 2014 Warmest Month Ever Recorded On Earth:

    Driven by exceptionally warm ocean waters, Earth smashed a record for heat in May and is likely to keep on breaking high temperature marks, experts have said.

    May’s average temperature on Earth of 15.54C was the warmest since records began in 1880, according to the United States National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11280989

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  6. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Creationist_ef3eee_4415970.jpg
    http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/kj4ee42964.jpg

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  7. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Unbelievable!

    Auckland Council has put on ratepayer funded shuttles to get staff to / from work. They said: “Public transport is also an option used by many staff to travel to meetings in the city but the timings of the trains don’t always suit. The train takes 45 minutes whereas the shuttle door-to-door is 20 to 25 minutes.”

    Isn’t this the same Auckland Council that urges motorists to park their cars and switch to Public Transport?
    Have they considered their ‘target market’ may have similar issues getting into the City?
    Haven’t they blown their ‘justification’ for Len’s extravagant new train set, out the window?

    So… they prefer door-to-door shuttles because of reduced transit time / the need to get to meetings (places) on time / the overall convenience. No different to someone driving their own car to and from work.

    Sheesh. 8O

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11281008

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  8. kowtow (8,444 comments) says:

    It’s certainly hot in Nigeria…….

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2014/06/scores-abducted-northeast-nigeria-2014624103134503699.html

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  9. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    Greenpeace has lost any remaining credibility it may have had with regard to true environmental objectives:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11280983

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  10. kiwigunner (230 comments) says:

    And meanwhile Charter Schools continue to shine in the US.

    http://www.salon.com/2014/05/07/charter_schools_are_cheating_your_kids_new_report_reveals_massive_fraud_mismanagement_abuse/

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  11. EAD (1,072 comments) says:

    Interesting headline in today’s Herald about “Prospective MP & Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner” Jackie Blue saying that people who work for the Government should be paid not on merit, but on what race or sex they are:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11280958

    Expecting to read a story on the latest crackpot Green, Socialist Worker Party or at a stretch Labour list MP, I was shocked to find that Jackie is actually a National Party candidate!!

    This just continues a very long pattern and all I can say is what on earth is driving the National Party to behave, quite simply, like autocratic left-wing socialist government?

    Whether it be its borrow and spend approach to the economy, it’s expansion of the welfare state, its dilution of the Kiwi culture and togetherness by state enforced “multiculturalism”, it’s ignoring of overwhelmingly supported public petitions, its domestic surveillance, its “we know best” attitude towards smoking, drinking, sugar, fats, swimming pools etc. it’s creating of different class of citizens or it “equality enforcement” meddling into private affairs – the National Party has morphed into the Communist Party.

    I keep asking the same question – when are we going to have a UKIP or Tea Party type movement which should be so easy to do under a MMP system which only requires 5% support.

    Are all right wing, freedom-loving, small state, conservative supporters of the National party really that happy with what they’re doing to New Zealand or do they see no other choice?

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  12. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    http://riskybusiness.org/report/overview/executive-summary
    Damages from storms, flooding, and heat waves are already costing local economies billions of dollars—we saw that firsthand in New York City with Hurricane Sandy. With the oceans rising and the climate changing, the Risky Business report details the costs of inaction in ways that are easy to understand in dollars and cents—and impossible to ignore.

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  13. EAD (1,072 comments) says:

    Hey Scott,

    you should read the most shared News item in the World this week:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/10916086/The-scandal-of-fiddled-global-warming-data.html

    Looks like all the Al Gore apocalypse stories are a crock of sh*t – The US has actually been cooling since the Thirties, the hottest decade on record.

    So you can stop all your chicken little “the sky is falling” nonsense and go for a drive in your car – we need all the warmth we can get to avoid the next ice age :)

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  14. kowtow (8,444 comments) says:

    A good piece from Andrew Bolt on the Peter Greste sentencing in Egypt.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/greste_betrayed_by_al_jazeera/

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  15. J Bloggs (241 comments) says:

    Elaycee: What makes it worse, is that at both ends of the journey, the bus/train stations are right beside the destination offices of those workers taking the shuttle bus….

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  16. hj (6,996 comments) says:

    Report Warns The World’s Oceans On The Brink Of Collapse
    http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/7735/20140624/report-calls-for-five-year-plan-to-save-worlds-over-fished-oceans.htm

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  17. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    First!!!

    I’m reminded of the old TV programme ‘Gliding On’…. where ‘civil servants’ eagerly watched for the second hand of the clock to move to 12 so the stampede for the door could begin….

    I suspect someone was crouched over the table at home with their comment all ready to go so it could be pasted into GD at 8am +5 seconds today so the ‘submit comment’ button could be pounded furiously at 8am +10 seconds….

    @Milkmilo: I don’t care if you lick windows, interfere with farm animals or occasionally shit yourself. You hang in there cupcake, you’re fucking special, you’re my mate! :D

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  18. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    What an absolute shocker from “Chewy” Luis Suarez. He’s twice been banned from football already for biting opponents and the evidence that he’s had a third bite of the cherry is very strong. FIFA needs to kick him out of the Beautiful Game.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/06/chewy-luis.html

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  19. peterwn (3,271 comments) says:

    EAD – Jackie Blue is a former National MP and retired from Parliament mid 2013 (Paul Foster-Bill replaced her as the next on National’s list). She is not standing for Parliament this time.

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  20. hj (6,996 comments) says:

    Amnesty International knocked on the door (a couple of young zippies). I recalled their stand on the foreshore and seabed; that was easy!

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  21. EAD (1,072 comments) says:

    Thanks Peterwn – the Herald should really take a looks at their subs team. Right from the start in her photo caption she is listed as “National Party Candidate”.

    Still, the substance of my question doesn’t change.

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  22. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    We seem to have it wrong when we deal with offenders, especially young and first time.

    I have always believed that if we ‘nip it in the bud’ by dealing with a first indiscretion (crime, no matter how minor), we may prevent a lot of subsequent ones (okay not all, but that would take a miracle in some situations).

    Very few judges order a full sentencing report for first time offenders. Such a report would delve into living arrangements, history etc, and provide an indication of where there are problems. These issues could then be addressed, and maybe prevent the person becoming an habitual criminal by imposing a severe sentence and intervention that ensures the child is not going to develop further criminal behaviour.

    Instead we pamper to young and first time offenders, and wait until they have committed three or more crimes before looking for causes and dishing out decent sentences. Even then, if they are a minor, we often deal with it by family conferences – probably getting together, and listening to the very people that could be contributing to the problem in the first place. By time a young offender has committed three or four crimes, they have developed a bad habits.

    Full attention to the first, a severe sentence, and maybe we wouldn’t have such a problem with youth offending.

    Will this young lad receive a punishment that is recommended by his parents, who may have contributed to his development of violent behaviour int the first place? Will he have a family group conference full of hugs and smiles and telling him that ‘we understand’ and you’re a ‘naughty boy but you won’t do it again will you darling?”.

    If a child of 11 is acting up this way – then he is not going to suddenly become the school prefect without a lot of intervention that reinforces the severity of his behaviour.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/school-stabbing-sends-shockwave-through-community-6011689

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  23. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    annette king was just dreadful on zb this morning. like someones mad old aunty. hysterical.

    i guess the best form of defence is attack.

    the more airtime these chumps get, the better

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  24. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Why does the Fairfax mob keep pushing Parker’s economic theories. This little jerk couldn’t run a small venture without going broke, hurting many, one being driven to despondency. The greaser appears adept in lying, pinching stroke-ridden friend’s wives, and leeching. In other words, a typical left-wing loser.

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  25. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    dime: I would like to ask King what the story was with the Ginga weirdo she protected. Imagine the reaction . . . it would be National’s fault. She is a real horror show all in one.

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  26. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    GUESS WHICH COUNTRY DOES THE MOST GOOD FOR THE PLANET?
    http://ideas.ted.com/2014/06/23/guess-which-country-does-the-most-good-for-the-planet/

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  27. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    @ Judith – what do you think of Su’a William Sio’s comment that “boys are going to be boys”? If that the attitude of the local MP towards violent crime, is it any wonder that these kinds of incidents keep happening?

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  28. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    Stuff unbalanced polls
    Opinion poll
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/10173697/The-not-quite-living-wage
    What do you think of the Living Wage?
    It’s fair; people can’t survive on the minimum wage.
    $18.80 an hour is too much for some jobs.
    Should be well in excess of $18.80 an hour.
    Not really sure.

    Can we add stupid idea?

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  29. EAD (1,072 comments) says:

    Attorney and best selling author Michael Snyder highlights just how big the debt bubble is in the United States of Debt:

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-united-states-of-debt-total-debt-in-america-hits-a-new-record-high-of-nearly-60-trillion-dollars

    Whilst Snyder has a tendency to be gloomy, he has most of the big calls right and has done an excellent job over the years at pulling apart government statistics such as jobs and inflation to highlight the difference between the truth and government told reality. There are some mindblowing facts on this one and as an erudite commentator notes “We live in a debt based economy. New money is made when loans (debt) are created with interest. As there was no money created to pay the interest due, then more money as a loan must be created to pay the interest and so the cycle continues. When the loaning stops, the system collapses. So the loaning cannot stop and debt must keep on growing”

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  30. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Keeping Stock (10,013 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 9:09 am

    I think it is an appalling statement that smacks of ignorance. It is just such statements that gives ‘boys’ permission to act in such a manner. I wish such MP’s would think before they speak – they are community leaders and people look to them for examples.

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  31. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    When the loaning stops, the system collapses. So the loaning cannot stop and debt must keep on growing

    Assuming that the system is essential, which it isn’t.

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  32. lilman (958 comments) says:

    Just been over at WhaleOil,something seriously is going on over there,don’t know what yet but Cameron Slater is dropping some huge hints that there is soon to be an announcement on David Cunliffe in the next few days that will be sensational.
    He has made a few hints that the end is near and one thing about Slater,he makes these statements then follows through.He certainly has some new info it seems.
    Bye bye David.

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  33. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    @ Judith – I’m glad we can agree on at least one thing ;-)

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  34. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Watch this clip from 2:20 – 2:30.

    What an unlikable shit head. Whoever does this guys media training needs to show him this and say – never, ever, ever do this again you shit head.

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  35. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ lilman (813 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 9:25 am

    Yeah, but it he making his judgment based on a ‘boys’ measurement or a realistic measurement. Four inches maybe be equivalent to six in his mind. What is big, might be pretty lame. But it’s a great way to get attention, so full points to him on what he considers sensational. With a bit of luck it will be Cunliffe’s resignation and we can start concentrating on matters like policy etc, that seem to be woefully absent in this election build up.

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  36. hj (6,996 comments) says:

    “National cherry picks statistics to back up its claims. The OECD Report that Bill English cites is based on 2011 data but he knows the 2012 data shows income inequality reaching its highest level in recorded history.

    “The income inequality data also excludes capital gains on the likes of investment housing, which is a significant contribution to inequality in this country.

    “The truth is, in the 1980s New Zealand was in the best 30 per cent of the OECD for income inequality. Since then income inequality has got worse overall in the OECD, while New Zealand’s downward trend has deteriorated even further. We are now in the worst 40 per cent of countries for income inequality.

    “The consequences of income inequality at these levels pile up every year. That’s why home ownership rates have dropped to their lowest level in 50 years and 285,000 children live in poverty.

    “Under National the gaps will only widen.

    http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/english-fooling-no-one-inequality-parker/5/194315

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  37. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ dime (9,143 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 9:29 am

    Which particular shit head are you referring to? I can see several in the clip? In fact, the room is dominated by them, although that Mr Speaker seems a nice guy, and I quite like the nice ladies sitting in front of him.

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  38. big bruv (13,886 comments) says:

    lilman

    I what thread is Whale making these comments?

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  39. hj (6,996 comments) says:

    Labour will unveil its alternative Budget today, promising to hike the top tax rate, run Budget surpluses and set aside $1 billion a year to cover inflation and the cost of a growing population.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10197041/Labour-to-unveil-alternative-budget

    Diversity Dividend aside , the costs of population growth are not given recognition?

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  40. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Keeping Stock (10,014 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 9:29 am

    The thing is that such a statement not only shows a great deal of ignorance, it actually gives violent youth permission to carry on with their bad habits. It is also indicative of our current system that excuses such behaviour, but screams when a few years later it becomes a serious assault or worse.

    Any child that picks up a pair of scissors and stabs another in the head, has either psychological or behavioural problems, and has been taught probably by example, that violence is an acceptable means of dealing with frustration, dislike, or anger. Someone has either taught that child it is alright to act that way, or allowed that child to get away with violent behaviour, and not corrected him. Either way the child has not been provided with the correct environment that ensures he is going to develop into a law abiding citizen. The MP should have asked questions, shown concern and stated strongly that it is not acceptable in any situation. We do not need this sort of role model, or people supporting that sort of role model as community leaders.

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  41. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “Which particular shit head are you referring to? I can see several in the clip? In fact, the room is dominated by them, although that Mr Speaker seems a nice guy, and I quite like the nice ladies sitting in front of him.”

    the only people pictured between 2:20 – 2:30 is cunliffe, “it put the lotion on or it gets the hose” parker and two females who i dont know.

    i was talking about cunliffe.

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  42. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ dime (9,144 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 9:44 am

    Oh that ‘shithead’. Yes, well I agree on that one then. No love lost there from me.

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  43. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    did you watch the clip? how out of touch can one guy be.

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  44. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ dime (9,145 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 9:50 am

    Look, I have no respect for the guy, he should never have ousted Shearer. He is out of touch, his staff provide him with ‘issues’ and clearly he tries to put together a suitable argument. But his arguments lack substance and passion. That is what is most obviously missing from Cunliffe. The material he had, with decent commitment could have been made to appear valid – depending on the way it was presented. But Cunliffe missed the mark – somewhat of a habit for him. He just doesn’t have what it takes to be leader.

    A leader needs to be a quick thinker and extremely cleaver in the way they present such material (an actor that can make a decent argument for anything) or he needs to be a good decent bloke that people can assimilate with.

    I believe Shearer would have developed into that second sort of leader, he would never have won this election, but he would have eventually strengthened Labour. The worst thing Cunliffe did was ousting Shearer. Sure the fish thing was a bit ‘off’, but compared to the things Cunliffe has done, it was nothing.

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  45. Nukuleka (325 comments) says:

    The Su’a Williams Sio comments that I saw on the TN One news last were rational and balanced, calling for people to be calm and not rush into making rash assumptions about the sad incident. If the ‘boys will be boys’ comment was indeed made- I didn’t see or hear it- then I agree that it doesn’t help the situation but I am tired of the silly pc view that we can’t make a differentiation between the behaviour of boys and that of girls. It may not be a valid excuse for the unfortunate event but it may indeed be an explanation. If anyone truly believes that there is no difference between the behaviour and reactions of boys and girls they are sadly mistaken. And no amount of education, hand-wringing and worthy words will ever make it any different.

    No-one on this blog knows the kids involved or the families and no one knows what really happened. How about we just express our sadness about the situation for all involved- including the school- and wait a while before we leap into making judgements.

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  46. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    You’re making sense today Judith

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  47. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (1,250 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 10:00 am

    Too much brandy in my morning coffee, obviously I need to sober up! ;-)

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  48. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    Regarding the scissors stabbing incident, Radio NZ on the panel yesterday was trying to garner support for putting CCTV / surveillance in schools to prevent this kind of tragedy again. But tell me how a security camera is going to stop one irate youngster from hurting another? All it does is more clearly point out what happened immediately before, during and after the incident. It doesn’t prevent a damn thing. What 11 year old in the middle of an irrational argument or fight thinks of the long term consequences of his actions, much less whether there is a camera on him/her.

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  49. lilman (958 comments) says:

    Oh Judith sorry but you will vote Labour we all know you couldnt live with the fact you never supported the party.

    TICK TICK TICK,times nearly up for Labour

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  50. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ WineOh (495 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 10:05 am

    I agree with the camera bit – that is taking ‘nannying’ a bit too far.

    However, what I don’t agree with is the statement of an 11 year old thinking of the long term consequences. Evidence is that very few violent offenders, and especially murderers, think of the long term consequences of their actions. Violence is usually committed during periods of extreme emotion or substance consumption, and rationality usually has little to do with it. The rational mind is able to think of consequences, but not the irrational one.

    The issue is that this child – 11 years of age – not a five year old, has learned to respond to his anger by not only using violence but by using a weapon to cause pain on the person that he is angry with.

    Whether this was the first such incident from the child or not, the fact is if it is not addressed correctly, then next time that child is angry and in similar circumstances he will revert to the same, or similar response.

    At 11 years of age, he is old enough to have been taught that we do not hit out in anger, however, if some where in his environment he is witnessing others doing just that, OR, he has some sort of anger problem caused by a dysfunction somewhere, then it needs to be addressed.

    His behaviour is not ‘normal’, it is not acceptable. When we take an average of 11 year olds throughout NZ, we do not find stabbing people with scissors among the expected behaviours.

    Regardless of the circumstances, his reaction was unusual, violent and unacceptable, and we need to know why he acted in such a manner, not only for the safety of others, but for the childs own sake, to ensure such behaviour is checked at this point, and he does not become yet another one added to the growing list of young violent killers.

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  51. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ lilman (814 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 10:08 am

    You talk total garbage Lilman (an appropriate name for you). I have been predominantly a National voter. I have had National MP’s in my family, and currently have a cousin who is a Green MP, so have no family history that connects me to labour, except for one Grandfather, who never discussed politics but I suspect may have been a Labour Supporter, by some diary entries he made. I have voted for Labour a couple of times in the past 25 years or so, and for the Greens once and as a young person voted for a rank outsider to piss my parents off. I even voted for Key the first time he stood as Nat leader. I accept that my personal philosophies now align more with left than right, but it was not always that way, so you really need to stop gazing at crystal balls, because the information you are receiving is not efficient.

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  52. Tauhei Notts (1,711 comments) says:

    Wineoh,
    I disagree with you.
    The children who commit such an offence are brought up with the mantra; “Deny, deny, deny!”
    As soon as they realise that their pathetic puerile excuses will be shown for what they are with conclusive CCTV footage, their behaviour will change quickly.
    That said, the Orwellian consequences of wide spread CCTV footage are disturbing, so I am not sure what should be done.

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  53. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    ‪Michael T. Snyder‬ world economic dooms dayer ,

    Michael T. Snyder is a fundamentalist Christian crank who has started numerous blogs as a testament to his raging insane belief that the world is about to end. He started with The Economic Collapse Blog in 2007, with constant articles stating how the world is going to hell every single day since the meltdown started in 2007. It seems as though Snyder blames the government for every ill in the world, because without it everything would be great.
    Like most doom-sayers, it doesn’t seem to faze Snyder one bit that every one of his past predictions of economic collapse were dead wrong. This horrendous track record would cause most people to reevaluate their beliefs in the effort to one day be right. Yet, he simply refuses to even address or acknowledge that he has been wrong thousands of times, especially if you count each numbered item of his massive lists. He seems to have explosive diarrhea of the mind that no amount of logic can slow or stop
    Who is this nut?
    Michael T. Snyder states on his contact page that he is an undergraduate in Commerce from the University of Virginia, and possesses a law degree with an LLM (legal emphasis, not stated) from the University of Florida law school. He has supposedly worked in “numerous Washington DC law firms,” but quit to live outside of Seattle and rage at the world through the internet. Or as Snyder puts it, “Now I mostly focus on trying to make a difference in the world.”
    He also states very clearly, “I am a Christian, but I believe that most of the churches in America have gotten way off track.” Snyder has recently posted a statement of faith[1] in which he states that he believes that the Bible is literally true and that Jesus is coming down in person soon to start the end times to punish all the non-believers.[2] After which Jesus will start his thousand year reign over Earth.
    Otherwise Snyder is very tight lipped about himself, which makes it hard to find out what drove him mad.

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Michael_T._Snyder

    I understand he acts as a financial consultant for many.Conservative Party supporters.

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  54. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    @ Nukuleka – Mr Sio’s exact words, after a pause, were “Boys are going to be boys”. I’ve just blogged about this, including a video of the latter part of the interview on Breakfast.

    This is an extraordinary response from Labour’s senior Pasifika MP to two incidents of serious violence. Young men need guidance, role models and boundaries, not excuses.

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  55. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “and currently have a cousin who is a Green MP”

    how embarrassing for the family.

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  56. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Student visa fraud in UK.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27993775

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  57. stigie (1,173 comments) says:

    All these upticks for Judith is making ones head spin, bit nice to see though !~

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  58. kowtow (8,444 comments) says:

    “…..like watching a part of England dying a slow and miserable death.”

    PC,multiculti,immigration.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/tv-and-radio-reviews/10920781/Police-Under-Pressure-BBC-Two-review-life-in-the-force.html

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  59. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    “…..like watching a part of England dying a slow and miserable death.”

    Their world cup campaign in Brazil?

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  60. Scott Hamilton (298 comments) says:

    “…..like watching a part of England dying a slow and miserable death.”

    In the football, you mean?

    Anyway, talking of immigration, it’s time we put aside this PC nonsense and had a flag that better reflected the positive influence of Blighty on NZ history:
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2014/06/a-better-more-british-banner.html

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  61. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    The skull and X bones…

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  62. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    Phone hacking: David Cameron ‘profoundly sorry’ over ‘bad decision’ to hire Andy Coulson

    The Prime Minister says that he made a “bad decision” to give his former director of communications a “second chance”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/10922491/Phone-hacking-David-Cameron-profoundly-sorry-over-bad-decision-to-hire-Andy-Coulson.ht

    Good news for the Murdoch media cheer squad.!

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  63. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ dime (9,146 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 10:44 am

    Yes, I can imagine there are many dead relatives rolling around in their Tory coffins!

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  64. flipper (4,056 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock (10,015 comments) says:

    June 25th, 2014 at 10:42 am

    @ Nukuleka – Mr Sio’s exact words, after a pause, were “Boys are going to be boys”. I’ve just blogged about this, including a video of the latter part of the
    *******

    Agree with you, but sadly it is a cultural thing.
    Think back to when a Salv Army type by the name of Shusames (? spelling) was bashed to death on a Newtown, Wellington street when he sought to intervene in a brutal assault by a Samoan thug.

    Norman Kirk once famously intervened to stop a Samoan Matai thrashing a villager with the buckle end of a belt while the victim was held to a Palm tree. It is sick stuff.

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  65. OTGO (549 comments) says:

    Can we move on to The Greens now? Labour are done. NEXT!

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  66. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    No .We need to continue with the Colin Craig meme contest as per my post 8.16am.!

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  67. kowtow (8,444 comments) says:

    East End of London, immigration, integration………don’t go out with a bottle of booze in hand. The motive isn’t stated but the names of the accused are a wee hint……..

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2667109/Gang-five-men-smashed-American-tourists-eye-socket-bottle-Jagermeister-drinking-wrestling-hands.html

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  68. doggone7 (801 comments) says:

    Nukuleka and WineOh.

    Well done on your common sense. As usual hot-head, ignorant reactions to the terrible (split second probably) incident are coming from those demonstrating the same neanderthal attitude they are identifying as being at the root of the incident.

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  69. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    Thank you for that Kowtow . I doubt if Hitler’s Stormtroopers could of done worse to that unfortunate American visitor .

    Pat Condell on Islamofacism is relevant to this,

    I wonder if the UK Sharia courts will have a hand this kea and UT.?

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  70. Redbaiter (8,810 comments) says:

    Stupefiedboy is an excellent example of “Liberal Privilege”..

    (Liberal being interchangeable with “Progressive”)

    Liberals, because they are liberal, assume they are more compassionate than anyone who disagrees with them. From elementary school on, they are praised for their concerns about the welfare of others — even though this kindness is only manifested in verbal declarations.

    Likewise, from the earliest grades, their teachers applaud their superior intelligence. Since they agree with the principles they are being taught and regurgitate them on cue, they are regarded as unusually perceptive. Critical thinking, although orally encouraged, is, in practice, punished.

    And so liberals grow up in a bubble of self-deception. Their self-esteem is grounded in conforming to beliefs that do not accord with reality, but which nevertheless earn them gold stars and certificates of achievement.

    Then they enter the real world. Yet for them, it is not altogether real. The books they read and the television shows they watch confirm their special status. Liberal newsreaders and authors assure them they are better than their conservative peers. Clearly, they are more generous and insightful than these relics.

    http://mdjonline.com/bookmark/25295667-Liberal-privilege-and-the-lies-of-the-left

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  71. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Government to allow recovery of West Coast windfall timber:

    Special legislation is to be passed by Parliament to enable the recovery of high value native timber blown over in Cyclone Ita on West Coast public conservation land, Dr Nick Smith announced today.

    “We need to take a pragmatic approach and enable the timber to be recovered where it can be done so safely and with minimal environmental impact. This initiative will provide welcome jobs and economic opportunities for the West Coast at a difficult time, and will provide a financial return to DOC that can be reinvested in conservation work,” Dr Smith says.

    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/government-allow-recovery-west-coast-windfall-timber

    This could be an awkward move for Damien O’Connor, unless Labour decide to back theis legislation. Here’s a possible sign that they may be against the recovery of fallen trees:

    Smith plans sale of trees to fund DOC

    National is to introduce urgent legislation possibly today. The use of urgency is often controversial and should normally only be permitted where the measure has budgetary implications, where there is a discovered defect in legislation which needs to be corrected or where there is otherwise good reason to change the law quickly.

    But this bill is deeply political and clearly designed for campaign purposes. It will have limited effect in the South Island only and is obviously an attempt to drive a wedge between ordinary working people and environmental movements. It could be called the “Deseat Damian O’Connor and Denigrate the Greens Act 2014″. Because what is proposed is to allow the commercial use of felled trees in conservation areas on the West Coast.

    The bill is obviously an attempt to turn West Coasters against any party that stands up for environmental protection. If it is passed the forests will be weakened as biomass and important habitats for other creatures are removed. While there may be a case for limited extraction the bill should go to a select committee so that this can be explored.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/smith-plans-sale-of-trees-to-fund-doc/

    That looks like one of mickysavage’s less ‘personal opinion’ posts. Is it his own opposition, is he testing the waters for Labour, or are Labour starting to campaign against it?

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  72. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    @ Pete – given Presland’s proximity to David Cunliffe, I’d suggest his post has semi-official overtones. But whatever Cunliffe says today is likely to be reversed tomorrow.

    And Damien O’Connor should have simply come out and said “Bugger this; I’m voting for this common-sense legislation whether Labour want me to or not”. With the support of the Maori Party and UF it will pass anyway, so it would have been a chance for him to put his local people ahead of party considerations. That horse has bolted on that suggestion now though.

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  73. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    Actually the reason liberals do better at school is simple
    conservatives are stupid.
    This is a well documented scientific fact that many studies have confirmed.
    The average IQ of a liberal is 105 and for a conservative it is 95.
    :lol:
    Hodson, G. & Busseri, M.A. (2012). Bright minds and dark attitudes: Lower cognitive ability predicts greater prejudice through right-wing ideology and low intergroup contact. Psychological Science, 23, 187-195.
    http://www.psych.nyu.edu/jost/Carney,%20Jost,%20%26%20Gosling%20%282008%29%20The%20secret%20lives%20of%20liberals%20.pdf
    http://www3.norc.org/GSS+Website/
    Many more similar findings can be found in the scientific literature

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  74. Redbaiter (8,810 comments) says:

    I guess there are people out there who don’t agree with the Kiwiblog Kommie Klique- (KKK)

    @Redbaiternz RB the bravest, smartest conservative here in NZ & fearless! Bless him :-)

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  75. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    This is fucking shocking:

    And then it gets more and more fucken shocking:

    “……But what hope is there when Sydney’s fashionable left-wing establishment fetes extremism, as if it is just another dinner party conversation starter.

    And a newspaper editorial chimed in:

    But media attention will eventually fade, and those organisers will have to live with the fact that they intended to elevate the slaughter of women and girls to the very centre of Sydney’s cultural life.

    Islamic fundamentalists in south-western Sydney are wearing propagandist paraphernalia freely available for sale at local markets and online to show their support for jihadi bloodshed. Shirts and hoodies with rifles, pistols and fanatical slogans are being seen more regularly in Western Sydney, including Auburn and Granville — two suburbs where a number of the reported 150 Australians engaged in the sectarian violence in Syria and Iraq are believed to be from.
    DA1 Custom Clothing, a company registered at Auburn, has stalls at the Auburn Markets and Granville Family Festival and sells its merchandise online. The Islamic Brotherhood hoodie has become popular, with Shahada scripture supporting one Islamic nation for all people. Other items include a shirt bearing two pistols and the words “Submit to None But One” and Islamist headbands and flags.

    One newspaper editorial rightly took these money-making jihadists to task. It begins:

    Local Islamic fundamentalists have unveiled their winter fashion range, featuring an array of garments decorated with their favourite themes: warfare, bloodshed and extremist calls to arms. This is another manifestation of the seething fundamentalist undercurrent in Sydney’s West that has seen more than 100 Australian citizens leave our country to fight in Syria and Iraq.
    The slogans and images on these garments leave little doubt about the views of those who sell or wear them. “Submit to None But One” reads the text on one shirt, referring to Islam’s primacy over other religions and laws. Other garments display rifles and guns. These clothes could probably be ignored as offensive but harmless posing if it were not for the fact that so many in our Islamic community are taking up arms for extremist causes overseas. Since last year, six young Sydney men have reportedly been killed in Syria during armed confrontations with other Muslims…..”

    That’s the top half of the page – the second half is far far worse:
    “…..those arguing the Opera House stage should not be used as a platform for such radical and confronting propositions. “This man is being given a platform at a reputable event to apologise for the murder of women,……”

    http://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/06/24/festival-of-deadly-dhimmi-ideas/

    Then read the follow up:

    “…..But, without proof of terrorist activity, it will be tricky to stop Australian citizens coming home. Just look at the public furore supporting David Hicks, a homegrown jihadist of an earlier generation…..”
    http://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/06/25/clueless-christian-dhimmis/

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  76. Nukuleka (325 comments) says:

    flipper-not just an eensy weensy teeny little bit of racial stereotyping going on there, is there?

    Keeping Stock- I doubt very much whether Su’a Williams Sio has quite the nuanced grasp of English that you do. He probably believes that ‘Boys will be boys and ‘Boys are going to be boys’ mean pretty well much the same thing. Just as I do. What was your point?

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  77. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    Lick lick lick redblather
    Almost fifty likes self wanked on whale as well.

    :lol:

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  78. RRM (9,917 comments) says:

    @Redbaiternz RB the bravest, smartest conservative here in NZ & fearless! Bless him :-)

    Something about damning with faint praise springs to mind…

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  79. Ross12 (1,425 comments) says:

    PG –that from the Standard is pathetic.

    I would be surprised ( and pissed off ) if Smith didn’t do this even if it wasn’t election year. This is a bit of pragmatic governing that we should expect from any Government. Yes, there maybe some gamesmanship here but the piece in the Standard clearly illustrates why Labour are so far down in the polls. They would not know good strategy if it hit them in the face. The best tactic they could use now is, say nothing and vote for it to go through and this would nullify any gamesmanship from Smith.

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  80. wreck1080 (3,906 comments) says:

    Good on labour , for at least announcing some economic policy today.

    Very disappointed in that though, given they are introducing a capital gain tax which will raise extra money I would have expected a corresponding drop in income tax rates.

    So, E- to the crappy labour budget, but good on them for at least announcing it.

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  81. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    cunners knows he’s fucked – the big “you bet” when he won last year’s beauty competition and was asked about raising taxes. SO what do we get – 3% more over $150k for $200m. This is just envy politics. All he is saying is: “if you hate people on over $150k as much as we do, vote for us”.

    The fact that he said it was earmarked to pay down debt means nothing and will not stop him extending the WFF bludge to the same target audience over the next 2 or 3 months.

    CGT – pfft. Doesn’t work – ties up equity, reduces liquidity and forces up prices and causes enormous complication. Oz is a good example of what a screaming fuck up it is. He won’t have the balls to tax the family homes of his WFF bludger base, so more house inflation and less savings.

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  82. Manolo (13,754 comments) says:

    Suarez, the Uruguayan beast, bites again: http://i57.tinypic.com/1ekths.jpg

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  83. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    “Actually the reason liberals do better at school is simple
    conservatives are stupid.
    This is a well documented scientific fact”

    It took me a while to stop laughing before I could respond to this. :)

    “Liberal Interpretation: Rigging a study to make conservatives look stupid.”

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2007/09/liberal_interpretation.html

    This one from a psychologist.

    “It happens like clockwork. Every few years, researchers contrive yet another study to prove that conservatives are mentally deficient. This time, the attack comes from evolutionary psychologist Satoshi Kanazawa in his current paper, Why Liberals and Atheists Are More Intelligent. To be fair, gunning for conservatives does not appear to be his primary motive. Instead, he seems to have tied himself in knots trying to affirm a pet theory. Either way, he has recklessly disparaged millions. The methodology is atrocious.”

    http://ironshrink.com/2010/04/are-liberals-more-intelligent-than-conservatives-another-broken-study-says-it-is-so/

    “Yale Study Finds Tea Partiers Know More About Science Than Liberals”

    http://conservativebyte.com/2013/10/yale-study-finds-tea-partiers-know-science-liberals/

    LIBERAL INTELLIGENCE NOT SO GREAT:

    “more to the point: if liberals are so smart, why don’t they live so long, why do they have trouble running their own lives, and why aren’t they as happy as conservatives seem to be? And he has an answer: liberals have no common sense. Furthermore, schools and colleges almost never test for common sense. They test for abstract reasoning instead. With the result that a student, seemingly very “bright,” will skate through college and never learn to balance a checkbook, though he might learn a great deal about input-output analysis, dialectical materialism, and “the dictatorship of the proletariat.”

    http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/02/23/editorial/talk/liberal-intelligence-great/


    Are Conservatives really less intelligent?
    This rhetoric is often in the media and is widely publicized online. New studies have claimed to have found a link, but in my research the link is weak. And even if these studies were true, the results are being used incorrectly. The studies only argue conservatives are predisposed to idiocy, not inherently linked to it. However the headlines are usually “conservatives are less intelligent”. This presumes an inherent link, which has yet to be true. To the contrary, some of the smartest people I know are Conservative. There are a few things I will point out:

    1) First, IQ is merely an abstract intelligence. In most practical and preformance intelligence tests, Conservatives tend to score better. IQ tests fail to measure many other intelligences–creativity and social skills–which in many cases is closer linked to success and productivity. Unlike IQ tests, the social tests can measure other intelligences as well as inner senses that actually influence daily choices more then IQ. What is interesting is that Conservatives are often more wealthy, have better relationships, children less likely to do drugs or crime, and are generally happier. IQ testing that “proves” liberal intelligence is not very valid anyway (and that is assuming the studies claiming those results are valid).[1]

    2) Shawn T. Smith: a psychologist, has severely criticized the main study for the Liberals are smarter link. Kanazawa has been actually kicked out of psychology today for his inaccuracies and wacky theories (like Asians are not creative and all black women are attractive). He claims that people that identify as “very liberal” are 11.6 IQ points more intelligent then those who would identify as “very conservative” (where I would identify myself). As Smith rightly argues, at the beginning, even if liberals were more intelligent, a 12 point IQ gap woudl be astonishing. He said it could be true, but such a large result should be met with skepticism and methodology should be questioned. In peer review, this should happen, but Smith points out although most studies like this have poor methodology they get welcomed because of academic bias. Smith argues the study was made to get a desired outcome. Kanazawa does not measure IQ, rather verbal intelligence — interestingly I score fairly well on those — regardless, Smith makes a well articulated point: merely measuring verbal skills ignores many other intelligences (practical, social, etc.) ”

    http://social-conservatism.blogspot.com.tr/2012/12/are-conservatives-really-less.html

    It’s revealing that Kanazawa, the guy behind the IQ claim was kicked out of Psychology Today for inaccuracies in his various claims. :)

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  84. fernglas (157 comments) says:

    So Donghua Liu now reveals that his donations were “close to $100,000″, including a figure of $50-60k for a dinner on the Yangtze, which Barker says was attended by half of Liu’s staff, $2k to the rowing club, random anonymous donations and wine purchases, none of which have figures specified. No wonder the Labour organisation couldn’t find them. Instead of a silver bullet it is more like a round of buckshot; still painful but far from fatal

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  85. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    I give links to scientific papers you give links to conservative sites.
    Do you understand the difference?

    ps
    Spawn is a conservative he will not understand by his very nature …..After all spawn thinks the lack of a religion is a religion.
    :lol:

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  86. Redbaiter (8,810 comments) says:

    “It took me a while to stop laughing before I could respond to this.”

    Why respond to it?

    Pandering to this kind of insane narcissist only makes them feel more self important.

    Its like offering a beer to an alcoholic.

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  87. goldnkiwi (1,304 comments) says:

    Bit ridiculous (or is that rich?) for Moira Coatesworth to be talking about Labour fundraisers being only akin to $5.00 raffles lol what is this, the pity party?

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  88. ciaron (1,431 comments) says:

    Re Suarez, it’s that sort of stuff that makes it all but impossible to watch diving football

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  89. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    He probably believes that ‘Boys will be boys and ‘Boys are going to be boys’ mean pretty well much the same thing. Just as I do. What was your point?

    My point was that, regardless of the exact words that Sio used, he’s speaking in platitudes. To say that “boys are going to be boys” is simply making excuses for the behaviour of the kids involved in these various incidents. Instead, we need to give boys (and girls) clear boundaries so that they don’t think that using a knife on someone is the acceptable way to win an argument. That is going to take leadership from the community, and Sio, a senior Pasifika MP is not providing that leadership.

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  90. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    I see Cunliffe wants to jack Dimes tax!

    what a piece on garbage

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  91. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    Actually the reason liberals do better at school is simple

    That’s right Griff. Conservatives see things as either black or white. Liberals see things in colour.

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  92. twofish (94 comments) says:

    Mr Cunliffe has reiterated his calls for an apology from Mr Liu following the latest statement.
    He also wants media who reported on the story to look at their position.
    But he’s refused to go into what those options may be.

    Oh, dear – I wonder if Cunliffe thinks now that Cameron Slater is a journalist or media after all? And DPF as well?

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  93. lilman (958 comments) says:

    Still dont think Labour are going to be there regardless of you voting Judith.
    As for insults,shit you need to get real,if you’re explaining your losing.

    Problem is Cunliffe hitched his wagon to KDC and Mana plus the greens,a fatal move.He sold his parties independence and differences to become part of an assorted nut mix.
    Also Labour don’t have the intelligence or the balls to make the changes.

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  94. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “That’s right Griff. Conservatives see things as either black or white. Liberals see things in colour.”

    like.. i dont care if i fuck a bloke or a chick..

    or, who says ya cant work and not get free money?

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  95. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    If Cunners were a dog you’d like him.

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  96. Scott Hamilton (298 comments) says:

    Malo e leilei Nukuleka – I assume you hail from the cradle of Polynesia, out on the eastern side of Fanga’uta lagoon?

    I was saddened when I heard that the school where the stabbing took place was run by the Tokaikolo Church. That outfit has had some bad publicity lately, but I wasn’t aware that their main school back in Nuku’alofa has had any similar problems. I taught in Tonga last year, at the same time that inter-school violence seemed to be reaching extraordinary levels – I half-expected UN peacekeepers to be brought in. Luckily the students at ‘Atenisi are far too chilled out to get involved in that sort of stuff. We had some discussions at the school kava sessions about what was driving the violence, and nobody could quite agree. There seem to be a range of factors at play. For me, the notion of fighting and even dying for a school seemed quite strange:
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2013/09/marching-into-battle.html

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  97. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    dime, a joke about a Conservative crazy you’d be very familiar with ,

    “Fox News announced today that Glenn Beck will leave his show later this year. It’s nothing personal. He just wants to spend more time with the voices in his head.” –Jimmy Fallon

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  98. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    stephie – im not a conservative. i think beck would have all sorts of issues with my extracurricular activities.

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  99. Redbaiter (8,810 comments) says:

    Its a part of the Dialectic Marxist strategy that so called “abuse” can ony travel in one political direction.

    In case you haven’t noticed, Conservatives abuse Progs all of the time, but there’s never ever any nastiness displayed by the likes of Stupefiedboy and his prog mates.

    Well, that’s the dialectic anyway.

    Amazing how well it works. Especially with that sector of the so called right who haven’t read up on or understand how the left have been winning for so long.

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  100. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    dime, sorry. Your a die hard liberal then. ? Gay and rainbow rights, feminist issues , pc and so on….?

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  101. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    Redbaiter,

    all for you,

    The Right-Wing Nutjob Quote-O-Matic
    Stupid Quotes by Right-Wing Nutjobs and Crazy Conservatives

    ”The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.”

    —Pat Robertson

    plus,

    ”I find it interesting that it was back in the 1970s that the swine flu broke out under another, then under another Democrat president, Jimmy Carter. I’m not blaming this on President Obama, I just think it’s an interesting coincidence.”

    —Rep. Michele Bachmann , on the 1976 Swine Flu outbreak that happened when Gerald Ford was president, April 28, 2009

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  102. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “dime, sorry. Your a die hard liberal then. ? Gay and rainbow rights, feminist issues , pc and so on….?”

    libertarian leanings.

    Dime is a friend of the gays. My best friend is a gay chick.

    I dont agree with most of the feminism bullshit as they generally want to take away other peoples rights to advance themselves.

    Dime thinks everyone is equal and has equal rights.

    In summary – dont fuck with my life and i wont fuck with yours

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  103. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    libertarian leanings.?

    Incest made legal.??

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  104. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “libertarian leanings.?

    Incest made legal.??”

    really? thats where you go? first thing that enters your mind?

    do you have a good looking cousin or something?

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  105. kowtow (8,444 comments) says:

    ciaron

    I don’t agree with alot of what’s said here ,but it’s an interesting backgrounder on old Toothy.

    http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/10984370/portrait-serial-winner-luis-suarez-soccer-most-beautiful-player

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  106. ciaron (1,431 comments) says:

    Cos the left never say stupid stuff..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I79wUEqBdQc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDEKmI7qKKQ

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  107. Tauhei Notts (1,711 comments) says:

    Labour’s new tax announcement.
    Actually, I think it is very clever.
    The cruncher was the 36% (up from 33%) on retained Trustees’ Income.
    I wonder if infant (under age 16) beneficiary income in excess of $1000, which is presently taxed at 33%, will rise to 36%.
    Note how the top rate is a little in excess of that earned by highly paid school principals. That will be admired by their base of voters.
    And to have a go at Trustees’ Income will appeal to the “envy” crowd. All quite clever.
    I’ll wager big money that they are too scared to put Maori trusts on the same 36% punitive tax rate.

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  108. Manolo (13,754 comments) says:

    Tax nirvana according to the socialists:
    “Labour will introduce a new, progressive top tax rate of 36 per cent on income over $150,000; that’s the top 2 per cent of income earners. We will also raise trustee income tax to 36 per cent to avoid trusts being used as tax avoidance vehicles.

    “This combined with our capital gains tax will allow the Labour-led Government to run surpluses and pay down National’s record debt by the end of our second term,” David Cunliffe says.

    David Parker says: “Everything is paid for, plus we are in surplus.

    High taxation is the solution to everything according to Silent T and his minion.

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  109. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    Secret talks bring threat of financial crises

    The story of the past week in terms of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement was not Prime Minister John Key’s visit to the White House. The more startling news is that our Government, with almost 50 other countries, is negotiating another secret deal in the shadows of the World Trade Organisation. They are calling to negotiate a Trade in Services Agreement (Tisa).
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11280883

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  110. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    Grif, one of our resident Gaia worshipers, opines:

    “I give links to scientific papers you give links to conservative sites.
    Do you understand the difference?”

    You linked to at least one study by a guy who has been seriously discredited, a man who also made up “studies” that supposedly proved that all Asians are uncreative and all black women attractive.

    And you expect people to take that seriously?

    Been at the weed a little too much lately?

    Hiding that kind of drivel behind the “science” label is just plain stupid Griff, and makes you look like a gullible fool.

    You treat science like a magic mantra, as though scientists were not fallible human beings who can be biased and dishonest.

    That’s not thinking for yourself, it’s being a mindless sheep.

    Do you understand the term ‘methodological bias’?

    Try thinking for yourself for a change Griff.

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  111. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    stephieboy
    you could be mistaken for being an extreme leftist.

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  112. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ dime (9,153 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 2:39 pm

    I was thinking the same thing. Why is it that so many staunchly religious people, seem so obsessed with sex and any sort of sexual acts?

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  113. Manolo (13,754 comments) says:

    And…. he (stephieboy) is one left-wing, progressive, illiberal youngster.

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  114. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    Red,

    “Why respond to it?”

    Two reasons. One, that is what a thread called General Debate is for. Debating.

    Two, it is important to counter bad ideas or, as in this case, stupidity and political bias pretending to be science, in order to provide the other people reading this with alternative information.

    I don’t believe in just writing people off the way you do. People can and do change their views, and no matter how silly some of the things people say, liberals, lefties or otherwise, they are still human beings, and so worthy of dialogue and engagement.

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  115. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    Judith
    “Why is it that so many staunchly religious people, seem so obsessed with sex and any sort of sexual acts?”
    Could you provide an example?

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  116. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    Turns out the supposed “study that got Griff;s source in trouble claimed that black women were less attractive than all other ethnic groups.

    Here is the article, from that well known Conservative fundamentalist mag Psychology Today.

    That was sarcasm for those without a sense of humor.

    Despite that, and other studies, including the conservative vs liberal one, being seriously discredited, Griff still wants us to take it seriously, because he repeated his religious mantra, “Science says.”

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/between-the-lines/201105/beauty-may-be-in-eye-beholder-eyes-see-what-culture-socializes

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  117. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    Here are the goods on this guy from another Conservative site, Rational Wiki.

    “Satoshi Kanazawa is an (alleged) evolutionary psychologist[2] at the London School of Economics and exactly the kind of researcher who makes evolutionary psychology look bad. So say thirty five leading evolutionary psychologists, at least.[3] His chief weapons are causalation, p-value fishing, bad data analysis, bigotry, and surprise. Psychology Today decided to throw standards out the window and gave him a blog, which was ironically named The Scientific Fundamentalist. It later got pulled from the site after he posted some racist drivel dressed up in pseudoscientific language.”

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa

    “Kanazawa then went completely off the rails and published some studies that read like The Bell Curve with even less tip-toeing around the racism. Why is Africa a third-world shithole? Because Africans are genetically predisposed to stupidity! All he did was take some comparisons of IQ, wealth, and health data, shoehorn in some Savanna principle, and declare Africans to be genetically inferior. That’s not reminiscent of anything, nothing at all. Besides the dubiousness of using IQ in this way,[11] Kanazawa, of course, selectively ignores research showing the cause-and-effect to be the opposite way around.[12][13] Another study he conducted on cross-country differences in intelligence used a model that assumed a flat earth.[14]

    Atheists and liberals are smarter

    This time around, Kanazawa attempted to demonstrate the intellectual superiority of atheists and liberals. Besides all of the other dubious methodology, one of the studies in the pair he published didn’t even use an IQ test — he simply extrapolated “intelligence” from a verbal test.[15][16][17

    So the guy did not even use a valid IQ test, and in another study used a model that assumed a flat earth, but Griff thinks this is hard science!!! :)

    Read the whole page. The guy is a total nutjob.

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  118. cricko (330 comments) says:

    Today in parliament.
    I thought, “Did I just see what I thought I did ?”
    I checked and, yes I did see it.
    What a way to treat a nice dress. Ugh!
    Fast fwd to 2.46 mins to see for yourself.

    http://www.inthehouse.co.nz/video/33682

    If you have a nasty habit like this surely you could at least constrain yourself when
    on national television.

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  119. Ryan Sproull (7,128 comments) says:

    Here are the goods on this guy from another Conservative site, Rational Wiki.

    That’s the first time I’ve heard Rational Wiki described as Conservative.

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  120. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    Left/ right is not as simple as the American republican democrat dynamic two party rubbish which is the red blather way of thinking.
    Many on here including the owner of the blog are liberal.
    liberal does not mean left or socalist
    Liberals seek freedom and embrace change they consider it important that we have the choice do to as we please as long as we do not harm others. Conservatives seek stability dislike change and consider church and community override individual freedom.
    Change is a human imperative without it we would still be monkeys hanging around in the trees of Africa.

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  121. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservative
    A conservative on the political spectrum tends to be for the status quo, consistency, and traditional forms, while being against any change on the grounds that it might be for the worse. In the United States today, the term has been conflated by many with very narrow social and religious prescriptions and co-opted by neoconservatism. During the 2008 election campaign, an article in Atlantic Monthly contrasted the old-fashioned conservatism of Edmund Burke with the right-wing radicalism of Newt Gingrich and company.[1]

    Note that left/right and liberal/conservative are only regarded as synonymous in the United States. In the UK, the Liberal Democrats are both socially and economically liberal (yet more on the fluffy socialistic side and not very libertarian). Following a hung parliament in 2010 they entered into a coalition government with the Conservative Party. In Australia, the Liberal Party are the direct analogues of the US Republicans or the UK Conservatives – they’re economically liberal and socially very conservative. Explaining this to American conservatives tends to make their heads explode.

    Conservatives are usually mad at the damned liberals, because the latter may, by sheer presence, threaten the equilibrium of the Universe, and therefore inadvertently bring forth dark forces from lower planes. In self-defence, any righteous conservatives therefore have to attack anything that even remotely might threaten the moral majority and their young innocent children from any deviation from The Truth.

    Liberal
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Liberal
    A liberal tends to champion individual rights and equality, although it depends on what measures are being taken to realize those rights. Due to this, liberalism can fall under many branches, some even self-contradictory; for instance, classical liberalism favors limiting government action to promote individual rights while social liberalism tends to favor government action to protect individuals. Unlike conservatism, its traditional political opposite, liberalism may be against the status quo, favoring changes to better society.

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  122. wikiriwhis business (3,996 comments) says:

    MPs set for perks boost

    MPs are in line for another perks boost, with a review underway into their housing and family travel allowances.

    The Remuneration Authority sent proposals to all MPs yesterday.

    MPs can look forward to a $4000 increase in accommodation services to $28,000 a year. If they choose to stay in a Wellington hotel, they could claim $190 a night (up from $160) – to a maximum of $28,000 a year.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10199138/MPs-set-for-perks-boost

    I thought this would have been announced after the election. Someone in blue is feeling confident

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  123. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    A conservative is a man who sits and thinks, mostly sits.

    Woodrow Wilson 28th president of the USA.

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  124. twofish (94 comments) says:

    Cunliffe wouldn’t say if he would take action or lay a complaint with media regulatory bodies, but he wants “fair and equal treatment from those who reported erroneous figures to correct it”.

    Deputy David Parker added: “We’ll expect to see some thorough reporting about some of the journalistic standards that have been shown by some of the media around this event.”

    Thorough reporting on the reporting by some reporters?

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  125. Nookin (3,341 comments) says:

    Cunliffe’s admonition of the news media brings to mind how so very lucky we were that some very diligent MPs managed to see through the sneaky Margaret Wilson’s attempt to rein in the news media and make it an offence to make comment critical of an MP or candidate prior to an election. For some reason, it seems to me that Mr Cunliffe might be just the sort of person to try and resuscitate her fledgeling monster

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=228777

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  126. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    cricko – lol shes just gross. the smug look she always has bugs me too. it stems from her very low self esteem.

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  127. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Wikiwhizz: Someone in blue is feeling confident…

    You do realise this proposal was made by the Remuneration Authority, don’t you?

    No?

    Thought not. :roll:

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  128. stigie (1,173 comments) says:

    Crikey Nasska, you just might get a rise with that comment ole chap !~

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  129. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    Rational Wiki is a significant repository of wisdom , insight and discernment laying waste most conspiracy theories including not least the one in this link.

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Obama_citizenship_denial

    Very useful when especially when posters post outrageous claims whether of the economic doomsday variety, 9/11, so called “creation” science , vaccinations , fractional reserve banking , Masons , Jews etc, etc . These happen to be views shared by a coalition of largely far right wing nuts but not necessarily exclusively so.

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  130. Longknives (4,741 comments) says:

    Who or what is Moana Mackey??

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  131. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Rational Wiki is a significant repository of wisdom , insight and discernment laying waste most conspiracy theories including not least the one in this link.

    Too funny.

    Tell us some more lies about there not being any evidence of molten steel at 9/11.

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  132. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    I hope the bastard that hacked the phone of Madeline McCaan’s mother gets put in the pedophile wing and then accidentally on purpose released into general public. Filth.

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  133. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    Its just at good at poking fun at the moonbats of the left as it is for whacking the wing nuts of the right.
    rational wiki defines the terms as
    Moonbat

    Moonbat is a snarl word referring to anyone who the speaker considers unreasonably far to the left, analogous to “wingnut.” The word’s definition has undergone a confusing bifurcation: conservatives use it to describe pretty much any moderates and liberals,[1] and liberals use it to refer to batshittery within their own camp — not just extreme left-wingers, but also cranks and conspiracy theorists.

    Wingnut

    Being a wingnut requires a particularly paranoid worldview, teetering on the edge of or falling wholesale into tinfoil hat territory, as wingnuttery causes the victim to refuse to accept any source of information that doesn’t back up their prejudices (essentially, wingnuts are almost always authoritarian as well as being politically right-wing). Constant gibbering about the “liberal media” as well as a slavish devotion to cognitive dissonance, conspiracy theories, global warming denialism, psychological projection, and crackpot theories of economics (i.e. Austrian school) are also, if not required, at the very least nearly universal symptoms. This is all usually accompanied by a side dish of a severe persecution complex. Not all wingnuts are racists or misogynists, though many racists and misogynists are also wingnuts.

    UT being both a moonbat and a wingnut

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  134. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Moonbat yes, wingnut no.

    “Being a wingnut requires a particularly paranoid worldview” fail
    “teetering on the edge of or falling wholesale into tinfoil hat territory” maybe
    “refuse to accept any source of information that doesn’t back up their prejudices” fail
    “authoritarian as well as being politically right-wing” total fail
    “Constant gibbering about the “liberal media”” total fail
    “as well as a slavish devotion to cognitive dissonance, conspiracy theories, global warming denialism” possibly
    “psychological projection, and crackpot theories of economics (i.e. Austrian school)” not even close
    “This is all usually accompanied by a side dish of a severe persecution complex.” yada yada yada

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  135. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/j3yy4lxkylnfzj8/UT%202.png

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  136. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    “Tell us some more lies about there not being any evidence of molten steel at 9/11.” ???

    Molten metal not steel oh fatuous one.!,

    https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/canofficefirescauselargesteelcolumnsandb

    But I’ll leave it to the more saner posters to judge for themselves and you can continue to busy yourself finding the 200 missing passengers and crews, and that ever elusive whistleblower or blowers.

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  137. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Molten metal not steel oh fatuous one

    You fail, liar

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  138. twofish (94 comments) says:

    In a ONE NEWS item on Liu donations to Labour, Cunnliffe wants an apology from Liu who is now portrayed as The Bad Man, and for some reason in the rest of the item is shown in photos with the Prime Minister John Key, who actually has nothing to do with this item, but is associated here with The Bad Guy.
    Cunliffe is also whining about poor journalism, and seeing how TVNZ is smearing John Key in an item that does not mention him, I tend to agree.

    Be nice to have an impartial public service television in the run-up to an Election – but that would be fucking hopeful beyond reason wouldn’t it?

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  139. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    From stevieboy’s link:

    “Infrared spectrometer readings taken shortly after the collapses showed temperatures near the surface of the piles of up to 1375 F: hot enough to melt aluminum.”
    This was 5 days later, not “shortly after the collapses”. And it had been raining.

    “The presence of molten metals is not an indication of planned demolition work.”
    Actually it is, since it is possible to demolish buildings with micro-nukes.

    “Explosives do not produce pools of molten metal”
    Wrong. Nuclear explosives produce a thermal pulse with more than enough energy to melt steel.

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  140. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    UT. Do you have any proof of the molten steel thing?
    Steel not metal, tests and all that? ya know?

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  141. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    Oh boy. It isn’t bad enough that israel is contravening international law with its illegal settlements in the occupied territories – now we have representatives of that wonderful state ripping off 85 year old ladies in new zealand shopping malls for 5k worth of skin care products. Do these people ever stop their immorality.

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  142. dad4justice (8,214 comments) says:

    Oh look it’s Dim Nuts, Jew bashing again. Yawn, yawn….

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  143. goldnkiwi (1,304 comments) says:

    Obviously a matter of principle, is he hoping that they let him out early due to his stance?

    I hope that he does not do himself irreparable damage (if he doesn’t die) between now and his release date… 5 weeks.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10198056/Starving-inmate-prepared-to-die

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  144. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    UT. Do you have any proof of the molten steel thing?

    Multiple witness reported seeing molten steel.
    A sample of steel fused with concrete was recovered from the pile.
    There’s a photo of a excavator pulling part of a steel beam from the wreckage, the bean has molten metal dripping off it.
    There were surface hotspots of up to 747 degrees C five days after the event.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/moltensteel.html

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  145. big bruv (13,886 comments) says:

    Dom

    That would almost be the dumbest comment I have ever seen on this site.

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  146. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    lol – there it is. mention contravention of international law and theft from the elderly by israeli’s and you’re an anti semite!

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  147. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    UT, in short you dont have proof

    You cant see “steel” A big puddle of shiney melted metal isnt “steel”

    I was in the building game for 20 years, there is shit loads of alum in a building, fuck all steel. Alum melts in a campfire. Steel wont even get red.

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  148. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    Dom is kinda right. The wankers that hawk over priced skincare are an Israeli rort that come here and flog stuff off using “student” visas and then carry cash back home and dont declare income or pay tax.
    Cnuts.

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  149. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    UT.

    BTW. I was an ASME IX ticketed welder for about 10 years, I know what steel looks like. :-)

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  150. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You cant see “steel” A big puddle of shiney melted metal isnt “steel”

    You can see the shape of a steel I-beam. If bits are dripping off the end of it, then there are very good odds you’re looking at molten steel.

    I was in the building game for 20 years, there is shit loads of alum in a building, fuck all steel. Alum melts in a campfire. Steel wont even get red.

    The twin towers had significant amounts of steel in the cores, they were not your average building. The presence of molten steel at 9/11 is significant because the impact fires did not burn hot enough to melt steel, the energy had to come from somewhere else, eg high energy explosives.

    I was an ASME IX ticketed welder for about 10 years, I know what steel looks like.

    Did you ever see steel melt?

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  151. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    UT.

    Do you know what welding is?

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  152. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yes. I mean did you ever see a large chunk of steel melt?

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  153. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    Aluminum cans can be burnt in a good camp fire.
    A large fire the size of the twin towers the basements full of cars the fit outs of thousands of offices etc is going to get very hot in the center and will remain so for weeks.
    It would not be surprising if rivers of molten aluminum and other alloys are present.

    As to nukes thermite bombs and controlled demolition
    :lol:

    To complicated to organize. the yanks can not even manage a simple contain and disarm like wakp chance of them puling of the twin towers without either a massive fuckup or whistle blowers screaming blue murder = 0.

    Then there is the question why ?

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  154. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    To complicated to organize. the yanks can not even manage a simple contain and disarm

    Who said the yanks did it? 9/11 has Mossad written all over it.

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  155. twofish (94 comments) says:

    Osama Bin Laden, if he hadn’t been involved, would have done everything he could have, to reveal the Americans had done it to themselves –
    undeniable evidence of that would do more to his aims of destroying the USA than his part in taking out a few buildings 

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  156. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    A recent revelation has shed new light on the 9/11 attacks.

    Two Irish joiners were working in the Twin Towers that day fitting new doors. A witness overheard one saying, “Paddy, get a plane and take a bit off the top.”

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  157. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    Office partitioning is quite often all alum. Lots of heat all the combustible stuff burns off, alum hits the concrete and runs like water.

    For steel to be runny liquid it needs to be 3000 degrees ++ IIRC.

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  158. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    UT
    The only times I saw really big bits of steel melt were when I had fucked things up badly. ;-)

    Usually I was watching a very small bright light go around a pipe . at 6000 degrees.

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  159. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    Not oil pipelines Colville?

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  160. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    ahahaha naaska

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  161. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    For steel to be runny liquid it needs to be 3000 degrees ++ IIRC.

    No problem for a micronuke.

    https://donaldfox.wordpress.com/tag/strontium/

    Barium and Strontium are rare Trace elements with limited industrial uses. The enormous peak in Barium and Strontium concentration at WTC01-16 is readily apparent in the chart at right. The concentration of the two elements reaches 3130ppm for Strontium and 3670ppm for Barium or over 0.3% by weight of the dust. This means that 0.37% of the sample was Barium and 0.31% of the sample was Strontium by weight at that location, WTC01-16, Broadway and John Streets. The Mean concentration for Barium including the very low girder coating samples is 533ppm and for Strontium it’s 727ppm. These are not Trace amounts. They are highly dangerous and extremely toxic amounts. They are also critical components of nuclear fission and the decay process.

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  162. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The only times I saw really big bits of steel melt were when I had fucked things up badly.

    Did it look anything like this photo?

    https://www.metabunk.org/metamirror_cache/algoxy.com_psych_images2_moltensteelenclose5mt.jpg

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  163. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    nasska.

    No oil. Steam and amonia. ASME used to be a high ticket but its everyday now. API 1104 for doing LPG.

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  164. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    Fuck ut
    Think of the frogs getting caught here in nz after the rainbow bombing
    Our sis found out where they stayed where they traveled Even were they had meetings etc. We have caught mossad using nz as well
    That’s our local yokel spys the yanks have far more resources then we could ever dream of. They also have 17 separate intelligence agency’s plus the police with the resources and ability to discover a conspiracy of the size required. If say the cia was responsible there is !6 others At least some of them looked into 9/11 guaranteed if any thing was fishy it would have come out from one of them by now.
    mossad would have been caught
    To many people needed to do the job in a controlled way to much chance involved to even consider as a false flag exercise.
    Occums razor
    Once a plane is in the air its simple to fly it ..even a big jet. Terrorist with basic flying skills easy could have taken control and flown badly into a large building.

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  165. OneTrack (3,089 comments) says:

    Manolo – ““This combined with our capital gains tax will allow the Labour-led Government to run surpluses and pay down National’s record debt by the end of our second term,” David Cunliffe says.”

    Mr Cunliffe, how much revenue is the country actually going to make from these two steps, year on year. Have you actually worked it out, or hasn’t the treasury person brought the calculator back, and that is just one of the many details you will “work out later” (once his feet are under the treasury benches and it is too late).

    This just sounds like a policy of envy, to get the “rich pricks”. Too bad if it doesn’t actually make any difference.

    And will your coalition partners be happy with that amount, or will there be “changes” following the “negotiations” – and then Russel tells you what the policy is actually going to be.

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  166. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    Once a plane is in the air its simple to fly it ..even a big jet. Terrorist with basic flying skills easy could have taken control and flown badly into a large building.

    Sounds simple, but it’s not. Many videos and sites are on the interweb from real actual airline pilots with thousands of hours of experience telling you what they did, with their training, is impossible. There is even video of real pilots trying to replicate it on simulators, and they can’t. High speed airline flight is not easy and all those planes were at close to full throttle and even REAL pilots couldn’t replicate it.

    Of course, in order to find those people saying those things and actually be able to listen to what they are telling you, first of all you have to be open to the possibility that you don’t actually already know what the answer is, because unless you do that, you’ll never listen to even 50,000,000,000,000 airline pilots all telling you the same thing, because YOU think you already know.

    And same applies to the hundreds of details on that day, all of which have the exact same fishiness as those planes. And people whoi think they already know, don’t even know what those details are, but they’ll willing to let the biggest geopolitrical issue ever, just slide away.

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  167. big bruv (13,886 comments) says:

    If you want to watch some classic filibustering then tune into Parliament TV. While this is a terrible waste of time and money I have to admit that I am enjoying it.

    All those who sat and watched the scum Labour MP’s filibuster in an attempt to stop the voluntary student membership will know what I am talking about.

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  168. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    the yanks have far more resources then we could ever dream of. They also have 17 separate intelligence agency’s plus the police with the resources and ability to discover a conspiracy of the size required.

    Sure. The US agencies where part of the coverup – look at how FBI contractor Sibel Edmonds was silenced with gag orders and how the 9/11 Commission report people said that they were being lied to about what happened.

    If say the cia was responsible there is !6 others At least some of them looked into 9/11 guaranteed if any thing was fishy it would have come out from one of them by now.

    Whistleblowers? Try these guys.

    http://www.corbettreport.com/articles/20100305_911_whistleblowers.htm

    mossad would have been caught

    So what? When the US stops supporting the Zionists they can kiss their economy goodbye.

    To many people needed to do the job in a controlled way to much chance involved to even consider as a false flag exercise.

    Rubbish, just run exercises concurrently and most of the work is done by people who believe that they are doing the right thing.

    Occums razor

    Occam’s razor says that exercises which mirror the actual terrorism are related events.

    Once a plane is in the air its simple to fly it ..even a big jet. Terrorist with basic flying skills easy could have taken control and flown badly into a large building.

    No according to a pilot who flew those planes.

    http://wtfrly.com/2013/08/19/911truth-wtfact-24-the-impossible-pentagon-turn-expert-pilots-cant-execute/

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  169. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    Well ried we have videos and thousand of eyewitness accounts of planes hitting the buildings
    all false every one. :lol: imposable to fly a plane into a building you say. even harder to do it by remoter then

    If it was imposable the conspiracy includes thousands of newyorkers who witnessed the planes impacts.
    or
    Remote controlled planes
    Even more people to whistle blow more technology to develop and fail as well as the hundred or so needed to set the bombs and where the fuck did they get them from? Minny nukes are not common More people more chance of discovery a host of army QMs and paper work are not easy to get past without laying a trail especially with nukes. then their is the planes airlines dont let you play with their puppys. ground crews airport staff etc.
    bigger and bigger conspirwackys……
    .
    .
    .
    or simple terrorist action from the Arabs

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  170. RichardX (326 comments) says:

    Reid (15,818 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 8:51 pm
    Once a plane is in the air its simple to fly it ..even a big jet. Terrorist with basic flying skills easy could have taken control and flown badly into a large building.
    Sounds simple, but it’s not. Many videos and sites are on the interweb from real actual airline pilots with thousands of hours of experience telling you what they did, with their training, is impossible. There is even video of real pilots trying to replicate it on simulators, and they can’t. High speed airline flight is not easy and all those planes were at close to full throttle and even REAL pilots couldn’t replicate it.
    Of course, in order to find those people saying those things and actually be able to listen to what they are telling you, first of all you have to be open to the possibility that you don’t actually already know what the answer is, because unless you do that, you’ll never listen to even 50,000,000,000,000 airline pilots all telling you the same thing, because YOU think you already know.

    I have personally put the question to 7 current or ex airline pilots by showing them one of the YouTube clips you had posted earlier. All of them disagreed with the conclusions reached in the video

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  171. EAD (1,072 comments) says:

    @ Reid 8.51pm – you make an excellent point about people not even wanting to go down the road of looking into 9/11 because to do so, would shatter their world view about everything they believe and people they are supposed to trust.

    In our society, trust is a vice. As children, we trust in our parents. When we mature, we still want to trust. Trust is an addictive, satisfying, mind-numbing drug. We’re taught to trust in God, in our wives, in our families, in government, in our courts, in our police and in the heroes who have fought and which will fight for us. But that trust is destructive to us. When we give that trust, it takes our power. That power corrupts them, while addicting and mind-numbing ourselves.

    When we come to the realization that we can’t simply trust what we’ve always trusted, or want to trust, but must instead constantly consider even the people we care about to be trustworthy or not trustworthy based upon their actions and what they do towards us, it makes one’s internal world become a little dimmer I think, but that is reality.

    Anybody who applies some critical thinking knows 9-11 did not occur the way and for the reasons the Media would have us believe – whoever bought down the twin towers did not do it “because they hate Americas freedoms”. Some of the stuff I see on here regarding 9/11 is crazy stuff (mini-nukes??) but engineering and physics aside, it is worth looking at the CONSEQUENCES of the 9/11 attacks.

    The immediate consequences were the Patriot Act and the Iraq War – 9/11 was designed to advance a police state, destroy civil liberties and justify endless war (i.e. the war on terror which has no end) of that which I have no doubt. Just think back to what happened immediately after 9/11, the minute before there was any assessment, the war drums were beating for an invasion of Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein who had nothing to do with bringing down the towers. Look at the Patriot Act – the most far-reaching piece of legislation in terms of concentration of executive power and removal of civil liberties ever in Western Nation – a 363 page law that was submitted to Congress by the Bush Administration on September 24th…………just 13 days later.

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  172. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    UT, Whiistleblowers.????

    Another instructive example about the dishonesty and deceptive methods Truthers use to try to put their case.
    Apart from that Corbett says very little of substance in the way of real whistleblowers coming forward e.g those commanding the rescue operations , NIST officials or staff,FBI, Armed services etc, etc

    Thus UT old fruit we’re back to square one on that score.

    The impossibility of flying the planes in the manner on 9/11 is rebutted by licensed Avionic engineer for Boeing ,

    http://911blogger.com/node/20232

    Also this from a veteran Italian Airforce and airline pilot,

    http://www.911myths.com/Another_Expert.pdf

    Also some common misconceptions about the airline crashes on 9/11,

    http://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/conspiracy-nation/

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  173. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    An omission. How Lee Hamilton of the 9/11 Commission was quote mined and what he actually said . As i said the low level dishonesty and deception that the likes of the Corbett report and Truthers practice,

    http://other.skepticproject.com/articles/quotes/view/27/911-commission-member-said-commission-was-setup-t/

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  174. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    Judith (6,795 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 4:05 pm
    @ dime (9,153 comments) says:
    June 25th, 2014 at 2:39 pm

    “I was thinking the same thing. Why is it that so many staunchly religious people, seem so obsessed with sex and any sort of sexual acts?”

    Still waiting for an example.

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  175. Manolo (13,754 comments) says:

    This explains why stephieboy is so in love with him: http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/23/obama-women-vote-democrat-because-they-are-smarter/

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  176. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    “I was thinking the same thing. Why is it that so many staunchly religious people, seem so obsessed with sex and any sort of sexual acts?”

    Because it can spread disease, lead to abortion pitting mothers against their children, depression, agony, suicide.

    What were you thinking Gulag?

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  177. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    “I was thinking the same thing. Why is it that so many staunchly religious people, seem so obsessed with sex and any sort of sexual acts?”

    Well, the answer is we are not obsessed at all. We simply have opinions as to the nature and purpose of sex, as all people do.

    In a nutshell, we believe that sex is both a gift from God, and a sacred act that has great spiritual power. Sex makes a man and a women one flesh, one being, one person. And it is because of this sacred nature and power that, like all things of power, it can be misused and abused. And when it is misused and abused it leads to great evil. Rape, child abuse, sex as manipulation of others, or as a power trip, or reduced to merely selfish pleasure.

    So, we believe that God in His wisdom set boundaries around sex to minimize the potential for misuse and abuse. And when societies and cultures throw away those boundaries, it is never a good thing, and leads to evils and suffering.

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  178. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    “Who said the yanks did it? 9/11 has Mossad written all over it.”

    Translation: The evil Jews did it.

    UT is just using, and twisting, 911 as an excuse for his hatred towards Jews.

    Nothing to see here folks, just the usual racist bigotry from UT and Reid.

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  179. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    Harriet
    People make all kinds of rash slanders about people of all descriptions without any proof.

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  180. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    Ryan,

    “That’s the first time I’ve heard Rational Wiki described as Conservative.”

    It’s not. I was just making fun of Griff’s (and others) tendency to dismiss any contrary view as coming from a conservative web site, and therefore supposedly invalid.

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  181. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    The emotional rather than the logical ones at work.

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  182. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    http://conservativebyte
    conservative site
    http://social-conservatism.blogspot
    again
    ironshrink
    conservative head doctor
    http://www.slate.com
    conservative site again

    yip shawn goes to conservative sites to debunk science alright.

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  183. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    Except Griff your claims were not science. As I proved, the basis for the IQ claim is bogus, based on methodologically biased assumptions, and did not even use a valid IQ test!

    The original study was made by a guy who also “proved” that Africans are stupid, by using a geographic model that assumed a flat earth!

    Sticking the science label on your claims does not make it so. It’s just a cover for your purely subjective opinions, and in this case the claim about IQ has been well and truly sunk.

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  184. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Translation: The evil Jews did it.

    That’s your prejudice at work, not mine ShawnLH.

    The only people arrested on the same day in connection with the terrorist attacks of September 11 were Israelis. Two of them were Mossad agents.

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article179295.html

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  185. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Good to see the ANZAC poppy return to New Zealand. Some things have meaning beyond making a quick buck. :-)

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/anzac-poppy-returns-home-christchurch-6012604

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  186. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Gulag1917 (505 comments) says:
    June 26th, 2014 at 12:28 am

    Good Lord Gulag, for a start I don’t know what you mean by still waiting? Are you under some sort of impression that people should wait around all day to see if you have any questions for them?

    Secondly, I could give you heaps of names of the religious people I know that are always raving on about the sexual indiscretions of others, and society, but unless you know them it would mean diddly squat wouldn’t it? But just take a read over some of the religious based discussions on here – sooner or later sex always comes into it, but somehow, doing the dishes, an action that probably features more in most households, is virtually never raised. :-)

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  187. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    Judith,

    “sooner or later sex always comes into it,”

    For the reasons I gave above.

    “but somehow, doing the dishes, an action that probably features more in most households”

    Well, duh, of course not. Doing dishes is a good thing, but it’s hardly up there with the nature of sex and marriage as an important question.

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  188. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Doesn’t your church have commandments about who should do the dishes? Surely there’s something in Leviticus?

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  189. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    By the way Griff, one of the links you gave was from the psych dept at a liberal university.

    If I posted studies from an NZ university about the effects of colonization on Maori you would dismiss them out of hand as PC academics.

    Your double standards are showing.

    The other link did not say what you claimed anyway.

    “Are Liberals More Educated Than Conservatives?”

    Turns out, no.

    A breakdown of educational levels between Democrat and Republican voters.

    http://reflectionsofarationalrepublican.com/2012/01/14/are-liberals-more-educated-than-conservatives/

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  190. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (2,665 comments) says:
    June 26th, 2014 at 9:07 am

    Well, duh, of course not. Doing dishes is a good thing, but it’s hardly up there with the nature of sex and marriage as an important question.

    REALLY Shawn?

    You may have sex only once a year, and the family will remain healthy. You try doing the dishes only once a year and see how the family’s health is. That is exactly the problem – religious people tend to focus on the things they’d like to believe are more valuable to discuss, but they aren’t more valuable in the bigger picture.

    Work on the basics, and the rest will fall into order.

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  191. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Anybody who applies some critical thinking knows 9-11 did not occur the way and for the reasons the Media would have us believe – whoever bought down the twin towers did not do it “because they hate Americas freedoms”. Some of the stuff I see on here regarding 9/11 is crazy stuff (mini-nukes??)

    Which is crazier, saying that micronukes were the source of the energy which melted the steel, or saying that the laws of physics weren’t working that day?

    There is no known mechanism by which the energy sources in the MSM account: (jet fuel, office combustibles, and gravitational energy) can result in temperatures high enough to melt steel.

    Multiple witnesses reported seeing molten steel, a sample of concrete fused with steel was recovered, and a photo was taken of what appeared to be a short section of steel I-beam with yellow-orange material falling off it.

    The presence of high levels of Barium and Strontium in water samples from 9/11 suggest that a nuclear explosion occurred there.

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  192. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    “REALLY Shawn?”

    Lol, I really should be saying that to you.

    REALLY?

    Sure, if you don’t do the dishes that’s bad. But is that up there with rape, sexual slavery, and child abuse? REALLY Judith?

    Christians and conservatives focus on things that are important to society.

    I don’t think anyone in their right mind thinks dirty dishes are more important than rape as a social issue.

    The comparison is laughable.

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  193. ShawnLH (5,002 comments) says:

    “Which is crazier, saying that micronukes were the source of the energy which melted the steel, or saying that the laws of physics weren’t working that day?”

    Both are crazy as neither is true.

    On the other hand I saw the second plane hit the towers live on BBC, and we have plenty of video showing two airliners flying into the towers, piloted by Islamic terrorists.

    So between a silly conspiracy theory favored by Jew haters, or what anyone can see with their own eyes, I’ll stick with the facts.

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  194. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (2,667 comments) says:
    June 26th, 2014 at 9:25 am

    But I didn’t specify rape, did I Shawn? I said sex – of which rape may be part of but not the entire picture. Religious discussions just about always come back to sex, of all sorts, you lot just can’t seem to get it off your minds. Either you’re telling someone who they should do it with, how they should or shouldn’t do it, or promoting it to have more children in the world.

    The fact is Shawn, if people concentrated a little more on the basics of life in their own homes, and less worrying about telling the rest of us what we should be doing, perhaps rape etc might not occur as much as it does. Several of the rapists I’ve dealt with in my professional life have come from homes where religious instruction and confusion became a contributing factor towards their defiant behaviour.

    Anyway, I’m not playing your stupid games and getting into a discussion with you, because from what I’ve witnessed about those you have with others, you’re completely cuckoo – god certainly wasn’t concentrating on the recipe when he made you!! :-)

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  195. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Which is crazier, saying that micronukes were the source of the energy which melted the steel, or saying that the laws of physics weren’t working that day?”

    Both are crazy as neither is true.

    Do you have an explanation for the molten steel, or are you just lying again, Shawn?

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  196. Griff (7,686 comments) says:

    There are three links in my original post shawn.
    The discussion is about liberal / conservative not democrat / republican party voters in the usa.
    As to a simple test as a proxy for iq
    you can usually tell within minutes of meeting someone if their iq is low or high
    A few simple questions will give an appropriation of cognitive ability.

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  197. ciaron (1,431 comments) says:

    If there was a “mini-nuke” that put out enough energy to bring down a big building, would we expect to see an increase in cancer/ radiation poisoning amongst those in the vicinity that day? and if that is a fair assumption, is there evidence that this is the case?

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  198. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ciaron, yes.

    More than 1,100 have cancer after 9/11
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/11/health/911-cancer-treatment/

    One of the biggest medical cover-ups in history was exposed this week when Wall Street brokers suffering from cancer after 9/11 made the news. While telling their story, the New York Post revealed that 70,000 New Yorkers have applied for 9/11 victim compensation, most for cancers that can only be attributed to direct exposure to ionizing radiation from nuclear weapons.
    http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/04/21/359423/nuke-cancer-from-911-revealed/

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  199. ciaron (1,431 comments) says:

    ok, why should I accept presstv as an authority?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_TV

    The CNN article seems much more sensible and has no mention of “mini”, “nukes” or “nuclear”…

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  200. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Why should you accept Wikipedia as an authority?

    The high incidence of cancers is only one of several lines of evidence that point to nuclear devices being used. What gives it away is the energy signature – the persistent heat, the high energy necessary to break up the concrete into fine particulates, the flash burns suffered by Felipe David, the disappearance of a 50 ton press, 22 ton exterior sections ejected laterally 200 meters etc.

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  201. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    No GD for 26th?

    Such an important day in history to.

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  202. Ryan Sproull (7,128 comments) says:

    Happy birthday, Judith?

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  203. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Ryan Sproull (6,976 comments) says:
    June 26th, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Hell no, I wasn’t born – I have always existed ! :-)

    Nope, the 26th of June is very important, because going from the 25th to the 27th, would have really stuffed the world up years ago.

    However, to disprove my point, I just looked up this date, and note that on this day in 1934 – Germany & Poland sign non-aggression treaty – now that was a waste of a day!!

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  204. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    Re U T’s Dancing Israelis 9/11 canard.

    The five dancing Israelis reported by witness ” Maria” is covered below in some depth and detail The analysis shows conclusively that the actions of the alleged ‘dancing” israelis hardly demonstrate aforeknowledge that Truthers try to suggest.An important aspect of her account is that she in fact did not see the young men until after the actual impacts and there is no evidence they actually set up their cameras prior to the attacks. in anticipation

    It is also claimed they were seen joking and laughing. But this appears just prior to the 9/11 attacks. Any how are we to judge about how people should or not react to any major event like this .?

    One thing is for certain it is a lie that the same van was found with explosives at the New Jersey Turnpike. Easily dismissed as the link clearly shows, but demonstrates once again ,how Truthers rush to judgement, quote mine and cherry pick details. As was the case with Lee Hamilton and the 9/11 Commission.
    Another detail in that respect ,four of the the Israelis arrested and detained later sued the Dept of Justice for their arrest and detention.Hardly the actions of a secret service agency who would be at pains to avoid any unwarranted publicity and attention . Not to speak of dancing and laughing in full view of the public. Pretty dumb conclusions to come to when you seriously come think about ti.

    A note about Voltaire.net. that UT used for his prime source The French philosopher was a virulent anti semite who detested and loathed Jews , Voltaire net continues that” honored ” and notorious tradition with devoted glee.
    UT, it seems, also.

    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis

    and the truckload of explosives myth,

    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/A_truckload_of_explosives

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  205. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I haven’t found anything from the NY post about 70,000 applications, but the NY Post figures suggest they are expecting 15,000 claims from 9/11.

    “As of Sept. 15, the VCF had awarded 78 claimants a total $13.7 million” -> 176,000 average claim

    “$2.7 billion for economic compensation” -> 15,000 claims

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/19/911-victim-fund-covers-cancer-for-first-time/

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  206. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    How do you think they felt 250 years ago, when the date jumped from Wednesday, 2 September 1752 to Thursday, 14 September 1752?

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  207. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild (10,235 comments) says:
    June 26th, 2014 at 10:28 am

    If my birthday was on any of the days between those dates, I’d have been extremely annoyed at not getting to celebrate my birthday.

    It must have been really weird though. Especially as in 1752 there were still many uneducated people who would not have understood the concepts involved in the changes between the two calendars.

    I’ve always wondered, how was the agreement reached, and is there binding legislation – do we have to by law stick to the Gregorian calendar? Or do we just do it, because everyone else does? .

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  208. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,730 comments) says:
    June 26th, 2014 at 10:13 am

    Why should we use your sources as authority when they are e.g happy to quote mine and distort what Commissioner Lee Hamilton actually said.? Larry Silverstein as well.?

    Higher Cancers ? Source. New England Journal of Medicine,? WHO stats.?, Oncology and Nuclear Medicine Journals of repute that you can cite.??
    Instead of Donald Fox , Jim Fetzer etc, etc .
    Flash Burns of Filipe ? Actually evidence they were diagnosed an treated as such. ?And why was he the only out of the many Rodriguez rescued suffering thus.???

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  209. ciaron (1,431 comments) says:

    Revelations that Iranian broadcaster Press TV is most likely fabricating multiple reports of alleged U.S. ‘drone strikes’ in Somalia will do little to bolster the channel’s already tattered reputation. And its actions could impede those trying to hold the U.S. to genuine account for its covert war on terror.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-woods/press-tv-iran_b_1130101.html

    not that I put much stock in huffington post one either…

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  210. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Judith
    There was an Act of Parliament to introduce the new calendar. There is a myth that the change provoked rioting: “Give us back our eleven days!”

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  211. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    PS. The Calendar (New Style) Act 1750 is part of New Zealand law. So no to your Julian Calendar!

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  212. dirty harry (485 comments) says:

    Nadine…where the fuck is ” Toeronga “…and where is ” Team-a-ru…its ” T-our-runga ” and ” Tim-aru ” stupid bint…stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

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  213. ciaron (1,431 comments) says:

    stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

    Cultural awareness and re-education. Once we all fall into line on spelling and pronunciation, I fully expect it to undergo an extensive revision and update :)

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  214. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    Whats happened to General Debate 26th June 2014.?

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  215. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Why does the Met Service website show flying pigs surrounding NZ?
    http://www.metservice.com/national/home

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  216. tom hunter (4,822 comments) says:

    And last night the site froze for an hour or so. Hacking? There is this:

    http://www.co-operativebank.co.nz/InternetBanking/nt/home.aspx

    Never heard of them. A scam?

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  217. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Used to be the PSIS.

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  218. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    There seems to be some disagreement in the Labour caucus over the plan to use windfall timber from the West Coast.

    National claim to have the support of the Maori Party and United Future (and also NZ First although Peters seemed to contest that).

    David Cunliffe started a typical yeah/nah stance yesterday – Playing politics with West Coast windfall trees

    It now looks like Damien O;Connor will try to get some amendments but will cross the floor to vote for it anyway:

    RadioLIVE Newsroom ‏@LIVENewsDesk

    Labour’s Damien O’Connor will cross Parliament’s floor and vote in favour of native logging, if his party decides to vote against it.

    This has sort of been confirmed by Moana Mackey:

    Christian Hermansen ‏@chermansen__

    @tauhenare @clarecurranmp Majority just increased anyway, Damien O’Connor will cross the floor

    @MoanaMackey

    @chermansen__ @tauhenare @clarecurranmp only at third reading if govt votes down all his very sensible amendments

    Labour have manouvered themselves into a stupid position on this, all over a small proportion of blown over trees.

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  219. ciaron (1,431 comments) says:

    Why does the Met Service website show flying pigs surrounding NZ?

    ’cause metservice couldn’t forecast a f**k in a brothel.

    http://www.windguru.cz/int/index.php?sc=25747&sty=m_menu

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  220. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    In Chicago, police murder a man for refusing to go to hospital…

    http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/police-shoot-95-year-old-wwii-vet-death-refusing-go-hospital

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  221. cha (4,010 comments) says:

    Yowza, that was a biggie.

    http://www.geonet.org.nz/quakes/region/newzealand/2014p476125

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  222. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    UT, a cop has been charged with one count of reckless conduct.This was back in April.

    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/04/02/suburban-cop-charged-in-death-of-95-year-old-wwii-vet/

    Your point.?

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  223. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    cha, there was a 7.2 near the Kermadec Islands a couple of days ago.

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  224. stephieboy (3,028 comments) says:

    U T,

    HAARP. ?

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  225. Maggy Wassilieff (391 comments) says:

    Flying pigs…. its an ad campaign.

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  226. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    The defections grow – Two Labour MPs support Government’s West Coast timber legislation

    Two Labour MPs will cross the floor to support the government’s legislation the enabling the harvesting of windblown timber on West Coast conservation land.

    West Coast-Tasman MP Damien O’Connor, and Te Tai Tonga MP Rino Tirikatene, will support the bill, in their capacities as local MPs for the area.

    The remaining Labour MPs will oppose the legislation, because it’s being rushed through parliament under urgency – with no public consultation.

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/1008613397-govt-accused-of-assault-on-conservation-land

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  227. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Why is it an urgent matter?

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  228. Maggy Wassilieff (391 comments) says:

    @milkenmild… the longer the logs lie on the forest floor, the more likely they will be attacked by pinhole borer… rendering the timber useless… I think the adult borer become active (start flying) in warmer weather …. i.e. soon (spring-summer).

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