Just give up

June 1st, 2014 at 2:00 pm by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

A group of Anglicans in a small Canterbury community are vowing to take the battle for Christ Church Cathedral to the court of public opinion after a judge lifted a stay on a planned demolition of the 110-year-old building.

Justice Graham Panckhurst released findings on Friday lifting the stay on demolition of the cathedral.

However a small group of Anglicans say the fight is not over.

Akaroa resident Mike Norris organised a group of parishioners to meet and discuss what the decision meant for their battle to restore the cathedral.

“This is the beginning of the next stage of the campaign,” he said. “We have gone through the courts, which has not advanced our cause, now it is time to go through the court of public opinion.”

Again – it is not the public’s building.

It is their own church that overwhelmingly decided that the cathedral is too unsafe to rebuild. The decision is made. Get over it, and move on.

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75 Responses to “Just give up”

  1. mara (770 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  2. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Isn’t infamous Anderton involved in this futile escapade? Get a life, it is gone burger.

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  3. geoff3012 (77 comments) says:

    mara (675 comments) says:
    June 1st, 2014 at 2:11 pm
    The Anglican Church could stump up if they had the will. Without the Cathedral CHCH has NOTHING to recommend it. No heart.

    Why doesn’t the invisible man in the sky fix the bloody thing?

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  4. Anthony (768 comments) says:

    Maybe the square can be made a bit nicer than the concrete jungle it was before – the old church looked out of place really. An interesting modern design hemmed by medium rise buildings and some actual grass and/or greenery would be a huge improvement.

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  5. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    This game is being played by folks with over-inflated egos.

    The cathedral, well, what is left of it, is a pile of un-slightly rubble.

    The thought that demolition has to go through resource consent / Cera bullshit is a clear illustration why the State/legislature needs to keep out of all development decisions.

    The Church has made a rational decision. Let it be.

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  6. tvb (4,560 comments) says:

    Anderton has never been shy to tell people what to do with their own property except his own of course. So it is part of his makeup to tell the Anglican church what to do with the Cathedral. There is nothing special about this rather second rate pastiche Gothic building. It is far better to have something that while having a nod to our past should reflect the New Zealand of today and in the future.

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  7. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    I would have thought that *houses* were more important than a cathedral. A building that is barely occupied for six out of seven days of the week.

    If these anti-demolition plonkers put as much effort into helping with housing as they do with the cathedral then Christchurch would be much better off.

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  8. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    “The Anglican Church could stump up if they had the will.”

    That’s not really true, and cost is not the only issue. The Square will have another cathedral, it just won’t be the same one, and doesn’t need to be.

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  9. Chuck Bird (4,913 comments) says:

    The Court has given a ruling if some indvidual or group want to abuse the justise system with endless appeals they should have to post a bond for costs if they lose.

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  10. Manolo (14,179 comments) says:

    The unsightly hands of the Stalinist dinosaur Jim NeAnderton must be behind this folly.

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  11. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    Mara:

    That would be the biggest load of shit I’ve ever read.

    Are you part of the racist/crim party?

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  12. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Isn’t Anderton a bloody Catholic?

    What the fuck should he have to say on the decisions of King Henry the Eighth’s church?

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  13. big bruv (14,224 comments) says:

    Knock the bloody thing down asap, it is only a building.

    As for its replacement, why do they have to build a replacement on that spot?, it would be much better if they made the square truly inclusive (a word designed to attract pinko support) by doing away with all religious meeting houses.

    Make the square a secular one!, I know MT Tinman is all for this idea.

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  14. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    “This is the beginning of the next stage of the campaign,” he said. “We have gone through the courts, which has not advanced our cause, now it is time to go through the court of public opinion.”

    Translation: “We have lost the battle in the courts and there is nothing left to do but whine loudly.”

    The battle is over, the AC won, the decision has been made, and the only polls on the issue show a majority in favour of the new design. Norris and Anderton have lost, both in the courts and with the Chch public, and are just sputtering defiance to pretend they are still relevant.

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  15. nasska (12,111 comments) says:

    …..”The Square will have another cathedral, it just won’t be the same one, and doesn’t need to be.”…..

    My congratulations to your psychiatrist Shawn. To get a conservative Anglican to accept that the new can replace the old would involve the finest possible balance of medication. :)

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  16. goldnkiwi (1,617 comments) says:

    As long it is Anglicans putting up the fight especially that were part of the Parish, I reckon go for it. If it was outsiders trying to dictate to another denomination, not so much.

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  17. ShawnLH (6,707 comments) says:

    “As for its replacement, why do they have to build a replacement on that spot?”

    It’s the centre of the city. What better place for a Cathedral?

    “it would be much better if they made the square truly inclusive (a word designed to attract pinko support) by doing away with all religious meeting houses.”

    That would make less “inclusive” not more.

    “Make the square a secular one!”

    A statue of Karl Marx perhaps?

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  18. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    They should build a Casino on the site. Ten percent of the profits dedicated to the ChCh rebuild! :)

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  19. David in Chch (523 comments) says:

    Aside from the fact that it is up to the local Anglican Church, even if we wanted to rebuild the cathedral as it was, the costs would be prohibitive. You then have to decide what we don’t fix, what we don’t rebuild. Those who want to rebuild the cathedral as it was, should do a big fundraising effort and raise the many many millions it would cost to rebuild it. Instead they do fundraising to cover legal costs so that they can try to force someone else to pay, someone who doesn’t have the funds to do that. sigh.

    This city is not defined by the Anglican cathedral. Yes it was a notable landmark, but it was not the only one, and not the only interesting thing about the city. It is time to look forward, not back.

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  20. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    It would create population drift from Jafaville to ChCh. All those croupiers and bouncers looking for a new start! :)

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  21. big bruv (14,224 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    They have already got a casino and damn low rent it is.

    A far better idea would be to erect (sorry, could not help myself) a huge knock shop in the square. Given that Chch is full of foreign workers then you just know these men would make full use of the facilities.

    With one smart decision you liven up the square and clean up Manchester street.

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  22. Redbaiter (10,470 comments) says:

    “Make the square a secular one!, I know MT Tinman is all for this idea.”

    As all Communists throughout history have been for it.

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  23. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    What about a Temple to the Wizard? He could dispense anti-earthquake fetishes to the religiously bereft! :)

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  24. big bruv (14,224 comments) says:

    One thing gets me about this church.

    If “God” has a plan then clearly it does not include the Christchurch cathedral.

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  25. big bruv (14,224 comments) says:

    Bedwetter

    So are you saying that to be a true conservative you have to believe in the sky fairy?

    That would surprise me as I know you have stated in the past that you are agnostic (a gutless stance)

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  26. Longknives (4,968 comments) says:

    The way things are going in this country they may as well replace it with a Mosque..
    Allahu Akbar!! I for one welcome our new Islamic overlords….

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  27. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Four wives looks good on paper Longknives but be careful what you wish for two of them could be Judith and Penny! :)

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  28. Nukuleka (405 comments) says:

    The usual comments here from those who seek every opportunity to mock those of us who hold religious views. Sadly for them no matter how much scorn and ridicule they shower upon Christians and Christianity we Christians just won’t go away and in fact the numbers of Christians worldwide continue to grow. Bad luck.

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  29. B A W (100 comments) says:

    The building is owned by the church, not the city.

    It is not the protesters building.

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  30. big bruv (14,224 comments) says:

    “and in fact the numbers of Christians worldwide continue to grow”

    I am sure that your claim is totally inaccurate (which is a really nice way of saying you are telling lies)

    The entire world should be deeply concerned about a rise (if any) in religious observance, history clearly shows that religion and peace are not well acquainted.

    However, I take solace from the fact that more and more Kiwis see NZ as a secular nation, religion as a whole is dying off here and that can only be a good thing.

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  31. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    For christs sake Big bruv, now you’ve got the godbothering nutbars all worked up.

    Think of the poorly paid resthome workers in Tauranga who have to clean up the mess after them.

    I’m all for the Whorehouse in The Square idea BB – as long as they give discounts to fat old cabbies :-)

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  32. Peter (1,695 comments) says:

    God has knocked it down a few times. Stop trying to go against God’s will. He doesn’t want the Church.

    They need to get in there and finish Gods work before the heretics try and challenge God’s will again.

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  33. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    The proliferation of Madrassa’s in Jafa being an aberration of course bb? :)

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  34. Scott (1,808 comments) says:

    I went to the Anglican Church in Akaroa once while on holiday. Lovely old wooden church with stained glass windows and a very traditional service. So these are probably some of the most conservative Anglicans in what is already a conservative denomination.
    However their own church has made a decision, the right one I think and they should abide by it.

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  35. gravedodger (1,575 comments) says:

    Then there is the badly damaged religious edifice at the end of Stevens St just off Ferry Rd in Phillipstown where thousands used to attend religious ceremonies nearly every week.
    Once run by the Victory Park Board.

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  36. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    I went to Akaroa once. Got pissed, fell in the water, pulled out by my drunken mates, they gave me more piss to dilute the seawater I swallowed. Never even realised they had a lovely little Anglican church there till now! :)

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  37. Longknives (4,968 comments) says:

    “However, I take solace from the fact that more and more Kiwis see NZ as a secular nation, religion as a whole is dying off here and that can only be a good thing.”

    Really?? Everything from Parliament to Royal Visits to Whale Strandings seem to necessitate Maori ‘Blessings’ these days…
    I just broke wind- I am sure there are some Local Iwi already on their way to my place to bless my chair…

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  38. goldnkiwi (1,617 comments) says:

    I think the congregation has been there longer than the minister or who ever the Canadian woman is who is passing on the message, perhaps they think someone more connected to CHCH would have a different opinion. How much was raised for Brian Tamaki’s, some would say folly?

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  39. mara (770 comments) says:

    I’m told that tourists visited CHCH to see the river Avon and the Cathedral. Perhaps I have missed the other reasons. Tinman, I suspect that your bollocks are my treasures and v/v. err, I should put that another way ….

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  40. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    They’ll be busy at the moment Longknives blessing the teeth of the rabid Seal that chomped the old codger up New Plymouth way.

    A team of Armed Cops and DOC tosser’s are guarding it already in case it decides to bite the team of Rent-A-Kaumatuas
    that have assembled on the beach.

    Down Stewart Island way we used to ping them to sight in our rifles! :)

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  41. FeralScrote (256 comments) says:

    Maybe the Anglicans can get themselves up to the Field Days and pick up a Tin Shed Cathedral on special.
    Just so long as the long suffering taxpayer does not have to pick up the tab for their need to grovel before their Beardy Sky Wizard.

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  42. G152 (422 comments) says:

    It was wrecked by an earthquake.
    Surely this imaginary sky fairy who runs everything knew what they were doing.
    Turn it into a garden center

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  43. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    Jesus christ Mara, now you want my bollocks – are you d4j?

    No matter what you were “told” believing codswollup like that denotes you as one of the less bright commenters but the slur on Christchurch is unforgiveable.

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  44. Longknives (4,968 comments) says:

    “Down Stewart Island way we used to ping them to sight in our rifles!”

    Andrew Hore- Is that you??

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  45. sooty (66 comments) says:

    You had your case chucked out by the courts, anything you do now you pay for and if you lose, you pay the churches cost. Put up or shut up!!!

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  46. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    I’ve had a gutsful of interfering busy bodies trying to tell the Anglican Church what they should do with their own building.

    Akaroa’s Mike Norris (and his sticky beak mates), need to wake up… and butt out.

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  47. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    Anglican God-botherer are you then Elaycee?

    (Just gathering info for the GCSB! :) )

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  48. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (901 comments) says:

    The only way to stop this nonsense is to convince uncle Jumbo Anderton to join the Internet Party.

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  49. ross411 (906 comments) says:

    Why make a new cathedral? Let’s force a more honest religious representation of the christian church. Something like this. It’s supposed to be satanic, but really, it may as well be the atypical priest shifted around after molestation scandals, represented in his true form.

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  50. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    I could behead a Ram and send it down to Christchurch if required ross411. …..No charge.

    I’d get enough off the rest of it to cover my cost and turn a tidy profit! :)

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  51. OneTrack (3,376 comments) says:

    It is amazing to me how some people are simply unable to accept change. Chch have a major earthquake. People are killed. And some small minded wallies can only think about “their” cathedral, even though, right now, that cathedral is a dangerous pile of bricks which should be demolished before anybody else gets killed.

    What part of ” the church have decided what to with their property, so let them get on with it and get the city back up and running” is so hard to understand. Alternatively, if you want those bricks, and that location, then buy them yourself, and stop screwing other people around.

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  52. OneTrack (3,376 comments) says:

    Sir Cullen’s Sidekick – “The only way to stop this nonsense is to convince uncle Jumbo Anderton to join the Internet Party.”

    DotCom will save the day. Free facebook and tweeting for everybody, plus the cathedral rebuilt using the power of the internet.

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  53. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    It was a fucking ugly looking edifice if I remember rightly anyway.

    No architectural merit whatsoever in it at all! :)

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  54. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    Nah, not me, Johnboy.

    FWIW, I think Norris is a typical neighbourhood busybody – just like Anderton. But I wouldn’t blame the Anglican Church if the wrecking ball started swinging at 0800 Tuesday morning. :D

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  55. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

    The Catholic one in Wellytown is worth saving. Looks almost Gothic.

    Lucia could have sung in the choir there in her high-heeled boots, leather gear, Lorde makeup and fitted in nicely! :)

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  56. lilman (974 comments) says:

    Christchurch, bloody whiners.

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  57. goldnkiwi (1,617 comments) says:

    Perhaps ‘God’ is testing their faith. There have seemingly been greater tests that have been passed.
    Oh ye of little faith.

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  58. mara (770 comments) says:

    Tinman, your observation that I am a less than intelligent commenter(or whatever) has broken my heart and I shall probably require longterm counselling for the trauma of discovering my idiocy. Before I head off to the psyche clinic, give me a few reasons for tourists to visit CHCH once the Cathedral has gone.

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  59. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    Certainly mara.

    Start with the scenery from the Port Hills, then the rivers (note the “s”) full of trout and, in season, salmon, note the friendly, open, honest people, then the gardens and parks – noting over 1/8 of Christchurch is in public parks and gardens – then move on to ChCh’s history as the Antarctic jump-off point, US air base before moving to the wine producing areas on the outskirts on the way to the movie making areas in the hinterlands.

    Pre shaking you would have marvelled at the Edwardian and Victorian buildings in the CBD, still evident in New Regent St..

    Only after that very full week would you have visited the pile of vulcanic rocks in the square and the river called “river” in Gallic ( or some such Scots language) i.e. the Avon.

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  60. kiwi in america (2,314 comments) says:

    Anderton and Crighton and others baying for the salvation of the old cathedral are long time proponents of OPM (other people’s money). If they want to save it then find a rich sentimental codger with enough influence to persuade the Anglican Church board to change its mind. A scenario like that would see majority community support. But the reality is these people want the taxpayers of NZ to stump up at least $50 million for one church. Yes people in Christchurch are nostalgic for the days when it was an icon. Having just seen the near dead Cathedral again recently, it’s heartbreaking. But people realize that such support is impractical and there is no rich sugar daddy with a spare $50m and accept that the AC have the right to decide what to do with THEIR church. Getting used to a new cathedral is now just part of a huge amount of accepting of the new normal that is Chch today.

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  61. Anthony (768 comments) says:

    I can’t believe any tourists used to go to Christchurch just because it had some second rate unoriginal cathedral in its centre!

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  62. mara (770 comments) says:

    Tinman I lived on the Port Hills… looked down every day and could hardly see the Cathedral spire on a bad day. CHCH is a jumping off point for point for tourists who stop there for a Cathedral photo before they head off to the snow.

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  63. dad4justice (6,595 comments) says:

    The Cathedral has never been the same since Aunty Hulun sat in it and spewed shit about some hikoi of hope . Get real and don’t be a dope – demolish it and move on. The place needs cleansing.

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  64. dad4justice (6,595 comments) says:

    “Jesus christ Mara, now you want my bollocks – are you d4j?”

    Good one Tiinny. Yeah right! What a gutless lickspittle coward!

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  65. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    No mara, ChCh is far more than that as I have explained – and you weren’t (aren’t) bright enough to recognise.

    Yes d4j you are – I fed my family, even when I wasn’t present.

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  66. dad4justice (6,595 comments) says:

    Tinny – What’s with you despicable creeps on kiwiblog why do you make false allegations about me. Are you that twisted you have to make up lies so you feel better. I think I will have to make an example of somebody to stop these malicious allegations. I made a mistake coming back eh Nigel and Amanda! Thanks TV#.

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  67. Nukuleka (405 comments) says:

    The usual bunch of blogging nutters spewing forth mindless personal nastiness! Gosh this blog begins to resemble more and more the nasty old Standard.

    The Anglican cathedral, irrespective of architectural merit, has stood at the centre of the city since 1881 and has been the symbol of the city ever since that date. Whatever the anti Christian anti Christchurch anti Anderton anti everything views of certain mainly anti Christchurch sadsacks this building does not just ‘belong’ to the Anglican Church- it belongs to all the people of Christchurch and it deserves to be restored. Whatever might be erected in its place will be HIDEOUS.

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  68. goldnkiwi (1,617 comments) says:

    Think how much kudos Dotcom would get if he saved the CHCh Cathedral. He could do it, he’s the man.

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  69. mara (770 comments) says:

    Tinman, I lived in CHCH for 20 years and never saw a trout in Cathedral Square. Much less snow. Idiot.

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  70. All_on_Red (1,751 comments) says:

    ” it belongs to all the people of Christchurch ”
    No it doesn’t . Just because something has been some where for awhile doesn’t usurp private property rights. It’s one of the bases of our society. Who are you to cast these principles aside.
    That said, make an offer and buy it. But use your own money not ours. We’ve given enough for your little city.

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  71. Rowan (2,611 comments) says:

    They should have awarded costs against Anderton as well, that might have made him drop this ridiculous charade, as for Beltons stupid comment “Theres no way you could justify demolition on the basis that the cathedral in its present state is a public safety issue” what a joke! So the cathedral in its current condition is ‘safe’ in the eyes of this dickhead! as usual Anderton, Belton and the heritage zealots and do gooders are using emotional bs to sustain their position whereas the church have made their decision based on the facts. Retain as much of the original material from the site as practical, so that a replacement can be built in the original 19th century style but its time for this mess to go!

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  72. kiwi in america (2,314 comments) says:

    Nukuleka
    It has never belonged to the people of Christchurch. It has been opened for easy public access by the Anglican Church for whom the space serves primarily a religious function – its iconic status as a tourism attraction was incidental to the owners. You will recall the controversy over the adding of the annex when tourism needs clashed with ecclesiastical needs.

    “It deserves to be restored” – for sure, but by who? The AC have 17 damaged/destroyed churches in Canterbury and not enough insurance to even come close to covering them all. My understanding is the insurance on the Cathedral is approximately $25 million – nowhere near enough. If you scrabbled together a few other possible sources (like the Historic Places Trust – now Heritage NZ) you might find a few million more. A full restoration is over $100 million. Are the taxpayers supposed to stump up another $70 million on top of the billions already committed to restore one church so we can have our old icon back? I’m not a huge fan of the modern proposed replacement and it would be great if some compromise design perhaps keeping a façade of what was there but once again, it’s none of our business – it’s the business of the Church of England community. Almost all of the CBD will be new and modern – its a reality we all have to get used to.

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  73. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    Obviously never went to school either mara.

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  74. Paulus (2,712 comments) says:

    As a teen a group of us went to the reconsecration of Coventry Cathedral. It was tearfully moving.

    If only the Catholic Anderton Neanderthals could have seen that they would Shut Up and rebuild their Basilica..

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  75. G152 (422 comments) says:

    12 sticks of gelignite would finish the earthquakes work and put an end to the nonsense

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