Labour and the US republicans

June 27th, 2014 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Liam Hehir at the Manawatu Standard compares NZ to the US on four grounds:

  1. It is in thrall to party activists
  2.  It appears to be in denial about polling
  3. It is banking on turning out the base
  4. Its weakness is temporary

I could add a 5th one on. Both parties are leaderless!

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67 Responses to “Labour and the US republicans”

  1. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    I read the article.

    What a boorish and limited political perspective it betrays. A bubble living progressive makes a number of assertions that are so detached from reality its amazing.

    However not unexpected when one considers that most news from the US is filtered by progressive media at both ends. In the US where it originates from such liberal outlets as the NY Times and here in NZ where Conservatives are harder to find in the media than rocking horse excrement.

    The reaction against the Republican heirarchy is a result of the complete failure of the party to stand for what it proffeses to stand for.

    Here in NZ the dissent within Labour is a result of John Key taking National so far left that David Cunliffe has nowhere to go.

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  2. Harriet (4,521 comments) says:

    “…..4.Its weakness is temporary…”

    That’s for sure.

    And the Tea Party was the cure. :cool:

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  3. EAD (611 comments) says:

    Redbaiter – although we have somewhat different ways of commenting on the political landscape, you and I (and many others on this blog) have all woken up to the idea of “left” versus “right” is out the window. That is a tired old 20th century political concept that is finished, done, over. It doesn’t exist anymore, but you wouldn’t know that from looking at the MSM and politicians themselves – they live together in an ossified political castle down in Wellington, in an endless, revolting circle-jerk (apologies to those having their morning coffee) where JK gives plum appointments to “adversaries” such as Helen Clark and Shane Jones.

    This is about those who want to be free, versus those who don’t want to be free. It’s really that simple.

    These sort of articles merely serve to make the masses believe there is some huge ideological gap between the captured legacy parties in the English speaking democracies. That is why UKIP, the Tea Party and over here, Act & the Conservatives must be demonized at all costs.

    Left vs. right……..don’t make me laugh

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  4. Yoza (1,545 comments) says:

    3. It is banking on turning out the base

    I have my doubts about this one. If voter turn out gets to over 75% in New Zealand I think we would probably see a Labour victory, whereas large voter turnouts in the US would tend to go against the Republicans. I doubt either party, Republicans or Labour, have the kind of committed base that could significantly impact an election result.

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  5. Urban_Redneck (51 comments) says:

    Redbaiter is quite correct. Hehir’s article is the sort of ill-informed progressive drivel one could expect from Jack Tame. If one needed any further evidence of how contemptible the Republican leadership is, then look no further than the Senate primary run-off race in Mississippi earlier this week, whereby the establishment Republican leadership backed Thad Cochran – who has been in Congress for 42 years – versus the conservative candidate Chris McDaniel. McDaniel got 26000 more Republican votes and would have won in a landslide but for establishment Republican activists , under the direction of McConnell, Barbour, Rove et al recruiting Democrat voters from black precincts to vote for Cochran, using left-wing fear mongering tactics in the process (the tea party want to take away four food stamps and voting rights).

    The establishment Republicans hate their own base. That’s what it comes down to. But this time they went too far.

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  6. ROJ (87 comments) says:

    Turning out the base is not going to happen for a party espousing extremes. My take on it those are voters pretty much happy with either result, or believing that they won’t influence diresction afterwards. So they are pretty much from the middle – and guess what? – those are who National needs to turn out, because they currently are the party of the middle

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  7. unaha-closp (1,112 comments) says:

    Activists in America – clear out dead wood.

    Activists in NZ – want dead wood to rot in place?

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  8. KathyS (17 comments) says:

    Who is this Liam Hehir, holed up in Palmerston North? He sounds pretty sensible to me.

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  9. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    A dirty game.

    http://c6.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/pic_corner.jpg

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  10. EAD (611 comments) says:

    National the party of the middle?

    I’ve got eighty two billion, seventeen million, seven hundred and sixty nine thousand, three hundred and twenty one reasons why I am very worried about the future of this country if this unashamed Socialist party represents “the middle” of New Zealand politics

    http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/newzealand

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  11. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    It amazes me that people actually write here describing National’s founding principles, and the principles that support the maintenance of the US Constitutional Republic as “extreme”. What communist immersion process have they recently graduated from I wonder? What other political dimension other than the far left have they ever read about or experienced? Bizarre.

    Like people emerging from caves and blinded by the light. Looking through their fingers and saying “argh argh, this is all a bit extreme isn’t it? Can’t we have a bit more darkness here? That’s what I’m used to you know.”

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  12. mikenmild (10,739 comments) says:

    Who described National’s founding principles as extreme? They obviously weren’t very important principles though, because no National government ever stood by them.

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  13. Komata (1,110 comments) says:

    perhaps someone can enlighten me:

    I understand that the Republicans are ‘roughly’ analogous to the NZ National Party and that the Democrats are more like the NZ Labour Party in respect of policies etc.

    If this is in fact the case, then this article would seem to be comparing apples and oranges, to get a predetermined answer (ie, ‘labour’ is superior to the Republicans), and as a result it would seem to be merely another attempt to ‘get at’ the NZ National Party by some journalist who thinks he is oh so clever in what he is doing.

    Perhaps (and purely for consistency of reporting) he should write a similar ‘breathless expose’ of the similarities between the NZ Labour Party and the Democrats?

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  14. Simon (685 comments) says:

    Cunnlife & Labour. More like Jimmy Savile in a mortuary.

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  15. Manolo (13,372 comments) says:

    Today’s National Party is not to the right of centre, but to the left of it.
    Not without reason National has earnt the Labour Lite moniker.

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  16. Harriet (4,521 comments) says:

    The center right is a position – it’s not a direction! :cool:

    National’s got 51% of the polling vote under MMP of all things, and gives no broad clear direction of going left or right. It says they’re ‘about center right’. That’s not a direction – that’s a position.

    Instead the voters have really based their decision on National’s track record of having select committees, which involve the imput of unionists, academics, social workers, feminists, marxists, alarmists, sexualists ect from the left. Nothing much happens – and what does happen is often predictable – twinked socialism. The center!

    51% is representitive of Cunliffe’s, Harres’s, Hone’s, Winnie’s & Normans’s -along with Key’s- total vote of about 97%.

    The good ship National is riding on a wave of public support with no direction.

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  17. Fox (202 comments) says:

    ” 1. it is in thrall to party activists ”
    The Republican establishment isn’t in thrall to activists at all.
    In fact, in many cases it is fighting them tooth and nail, providing massive funding and support to it’s candidates in primary races in order to beat out the activist (tea-party) contender.

    ” 2. it appears to be in denial about polling ”
    Current polling has the Republicans retaining control of the House and gaining control in the Senate.
    I’m not sure why they’d be in denial about that, or where the similarities lie with Labour, which really IS in trouble in the polls.
    Also, having recently read Armstrong’s Herald article on how Cunliffe is still a major contender when he’s only polling at 27%, it would seem Labour-aligned journalists are just as much in denial as the party itself.

    ” 3. it is banking on turning out the base ”
    Don’t all political parties do that when heading into an election?

    ” 4. it’s weakness is temporary ”
    Given the Republicans’ likely victory at the upcoming midterms, once again I fail to see how this relates to Labour’s current predicament.
    And although Labour is down right now, I’m sure that at some point they’ll inevitably bounce back, just like National did after 2002.
    If National already only holds a razor thin margin over the left parties during this ‘rock star’ economy, imagine how quickly things will change once we come to the end of this economic cycle.

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  18. Ed Snack (1,737 comments) says:

    Yes, it strikes me as the sort of article from someone who believes all that the Democrat spin machine says about the GOP. An intelligent and insightful article it is not.

    One thing I see is that the Republican establishment is quite happy with the crony capitalistic approach that the Democrats have except that they want their cronies in the positions of power and influence. That is the same old same old corruption that more and more bedevils US politics. The Tea Party is an amorphous grouping that doesn’t have a unified structure so it is prone to capture by extremists in was, however in general it’s main position is a desire to see a restraint on Federal government encroachment beyond what they see as normal historic levels. That’s it, there’s no implicit moralist imperatives that belong although many can be attached; they’re against overweening government power, excessive taxation, and excessive regulation.

    Of course that concept is an anathema to established politicians who gather great power and wealth from their ability to monetariize their influence, so it is a toss up who hates the TP more, establishment Republicans or the Democrats. Both of those embody the belief that more government is good with the unstated but implicit subtext that it is good for them but usually not for the voters nor for the USA in general. And that’s politics.

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  19. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    RINO!.

    http://msconservativespac.com/democratmcdaniel/

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  20. Liam Hehir (103 comments) says:

    For the record, I don’t consider myself to be anyone’s version of a progressive nor do I consider myself to be in any way a supporter of the Democrats. However, what I do know is that in the 2012 election there were plenty of conservatives, myself included, who thought there was a very good chance that Mitt Romney would displace Barack Obama – probably because of an overreliance on conservative media.

    In the event Barack Obama secured a decisive victory over Mitt Romney, who was plagued by previous statements that were phrased in a way that appealed to primary voters but which alienated general election voters. Despite this, Mitt Romney outperformed the GOP in several key states.

    Would I prefer it if National governed further to the right? Of course. However, it’s not realistic to expect politicians to create demand for policies. Politics is downstream from culture. Milton Friedman said it best:

    I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or if they try, they will shortly be out of office.

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  21. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    excellent opening comment, Ead. Well stated. I said as much in the standard, myself.

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  22. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    ” For the record, I don’t consider myself to be anyone’s version of a progressive ”

    Well, the text of your article doesn’t do much for that declaration.

    ” probably because of an overreliance on conservative media.”

    Conservative media?? This sounds to me like a prog projection. If you’re talking FOX that means that as others have suggested above, you appear to buy into left wing talking points. If FOX was as Conservative as MSNBC you may have a point, but it isn’t. Apart from Sean Hannity, you could categorise most of its presenters as pretty mid range. I don’t watch them any more I am so sick of their liberal bias.

    Maybe I am wrong about this, as its not particularly clear, but if you’re suggesting Mitt Romney is some kind of Conservative then you’re buying even more into LW talking points. If he’s Conservative, why did he introduce his own version of Obamacare in his own state? Romney is in fact a weak moderate and a good example of why people are fed up with the Republican Party.

    The people who liked Romney and endorsed him are likewise liberals. If Bob Dole, John McCain, Lisa Murkowski, Joe Scarborough, Jon Huntsman and John Sununu (for a few examples) are all behind Romney you can guarantee he’s not going to be worth a pinch of goat excrement once he’s elected.

    You’re right to some extent about culture directing politics. Isn’t the Tea Party part of that culture?

    The real rift in the US is indeed between cultures. Basically the Progressives (as personified by Obama) and the Conservatives. That these two cultures are quite radically different is quite obvious, and the Tea Party and other Conservative movements are merely a signal that the grass roots are fed up with being dictated to by a culture that is so ignorant and poorly educated they don’t know any other culture or political direction exists.

    For example Conservatives know that they live in a Constitutional Republic. Ignorant Progs think they live in a socialist democracy and have no idea their predecessors died in the name of freedom. The concepts of freedom and liberty don’t even feature in their thinking patterns.

    That’s the battle. Conservatives against Progressives, or if you like, and in more simple terms, the educated against the brainwashed.

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  23. Ed Snack (1,737 comments) says:

    Liam, decisive in terms of votes in the electoral college, yes. The result though could have been reversed by as few as 500,000 votes in key states as Obama won many by very small margins. And the real issue was a failure by Republicans to get out the vote on their side. That was made difficult by a very clever Democrat campaign to cast Romney as an aristocrat with no interest in the common voter and by Republican mishandling of their response.

    I think the base failure was why so many conservative commenters were fooled into thinking Romney might get up, if the vote had turned out he might have been. Nate Silver picked this though, I think his analysis even pointed out the problem that the Democrats got fewer votes than in 2008 but their core base voted, the republicans failed to do the same with their base.

    The Tea Party could have helped energise that base, but they were blocked in numerous ways; by IRS blocks on non-profits, by Democrat demonisation, and by the Republican establishment apparently preferring an Obama win to a TP supported Romney win.

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  24. stephieboy (2,185 comments) says:

    DPF, I would add another. The Republicans are leaderless largely due to the fact that they are captive to a vociferous and rabid bunch of clowns the Tea Party.
    Ed Snack’s fatuous post aove also demonstrates why that continues to be the case.The Republicans need to disassociate themselves from the rabid right and adopt and develop sane centrists policies. Not the inane and stupid Ron Paul styled Libertarianism much adored by Tea baggers.

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  25. Pete George (22,849 comments) says:

    That’s the battle. Conservatives against Progressives, or if you like, and in more simple terms, the educated against the brainwashed.

    That’s very funny. They also claim similar superiority like that on the far left.

    This pearler from Greg Presland is along similar lines:

    The right gets upset when the Herald says the truth about them whereas the left gets upset when the Herald tells lies about them …

    http://thestandard.org.nz/the-people-respond-to-the-herald-editorial-on-donghua-liu/#comment-840072

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  26. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    “They claim very similar superiority on the far left.”

    Of course they do. I posted a reference to this delusion the other day.

    http://mdjonline.com/bookmark/25295667-Liberal-privilege-and-the-lies-of-the-left

    Fact is we know what Progressives are, whereas Progs don’t know the difference between Conservatives, Libertarians or Republicans. The demonstrate this ignorance every day and you only have to look at the comment above yours for confirmation.

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  27. Liam Hehir (103 comments) says:

    I’m sorry I don’t agree. Barack Obama won 5 million more votes than Mitt Romney did – despite the poor economy and the unpopular Obamacare reform. That is a decisive majority in anyone’s terms.

    Actually, in many places the GOP operated as a drag on Romney. Where he shared the ticket, Romney outperformed a number of candidates with much better conservative bona fides – even including Ted Cruz.

    In 2012 the GOP suffered from a serious image problem not helped by feedback loops and the dismissal of all unfavourable polls as “rogues” cooked up by the media. I know what side that I think that most resembles in the New Zealand of 2014.

    Somebody said I was living in a progressive bubble – which is perhaps an odd thing to say for a conservative columnist who is also a traditionalist Catholic living in the provinces and whose weekend reads start with National Review, the Weekly Standard and the American Spectator. Everything exists on a scale I guess.

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  28. Bingo99 (64 comments) says:

    I vote National – I’m progressive.

    Redbaiter and the other far right loons on here, no doubt benefiting from the many government policies they decry – let’s face it, you guys are old – vote somewhere on the right… thereby ensuring a National government.

    The key difference being, Redbaiter and his ilk aren’t about progress. Oh no. They’re all about regression. Going back to some halcyon day or image of politics that never actually existed. Regressive in mind, body and spirit. Excellent.

    Out of interest… have you guys been introduced to your mandated homosexual partner by the government yet? Have you been practicing your homosexual acts as required by the passing of the gay marriage laws? No? Oh.

    And actually I’d liken the Democrats more to National and the Republicans as so extreme they’re off any political scale, except perhaps the National Front in France.

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  29. Pete George (22,849 comments) says:

    Poll denial has been growing to rampant at The Standard – around about since they trended downwards. They used to cling to Roy Morgan but that can’t be right now either.

    As well as poll denial they are moving more towards conspiracies and they are going full blast at media bias now too.

    They must be ranted out over “we’ve got a wishy washy uncharismatic leader”.

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  30. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    “National Review, the Weekly Standard and the American Spectator.”

    OK, that goes a long way to explaining the RINO thinking patterns. Weekly Standard is a Bush mouthpiece and Nat Review just fired Mark Steyn.

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  31. Liam Hehir (103 comments) says:

    OK, well I guess if that’s your definition of progressive literature, I guess we can agree that I’m a progressive. I stand by my comparison.

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  32. Urban_Redneck (51 comments) says:

    In the event Barack Obama secured a decisive victory over Mitt Romney, who was plagued by previous statements that were phrased in a way that appealed to primary voters but which alienated general election voters.

    Romney won the independent vote by 50 to 45, and in key swing states, but still lost 51 – 48 because 4 million Republican voters couldn’t be bothered and stayed home. Republican establishment mush candidates – Dole, McCain and Romney – always lose and G.H.W Bush only happened to fly in on Reagan’s coat tails.

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  33. Liam Hehir (103 comments) says:

    Where do Richard Nixon, Barry Goldwater, George W. Bush and Dwight Eisenhower fit into that schema?

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  34. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    What’s your view on Sarah Palin?

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  35. RRM (9,463 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (7,261 comments) says:
    June 27th, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    “National Review, the Weekly Standard and the American Spectator.”

    OK, that goes a long way to explaining the RINO thinking patterns. Weekly Standard is a Bush mouthpiece and Nat Review just fired Mark Steyn.

    :lol: This will be good, a pissing contest over who’s the rightest.

    Mirror, mirror, on the wall; who is the most conservative of them all?

    Why, you are, my dear!

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  36. Liam Hehir (103 comments) says:

    RRM – doesn’t a contest require at least two contestants? Per above, that’s something I’d rather decline. I’ll happily concede that.

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  37. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    “Today’s National Party is not to the right of centre, but to the left of it.”

    Manolo-

    See Bingo99 at 2:23pm.

    National voter completely interchangeable with any Labour supporter.

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  38. stephieboy (2,185 comments) says:

    Redbaiter,

    Sarah Palin,.?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-dunn/book-excerpt-from-the-lie_b_1335267.html

    Now why don’t you be a good boy and start canvassing for Kyle Chapman and the RWR.?

    Doesn’t it make you laugh our fatuous far righter denialists trying to stir Romney’s defeat 2012 into a victory.!

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  39. Liam Hehir (103 comments) says:

    Romney [lost] because 4 million Republican voters couldn’t be bothered and stayed home.

    OK – so how does the GOP get “the missing four million” to vote?

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  40. mikenmild (10,739 comments) says:

    By appeasing the Tea Party more?

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  41. Liam Hehir (103 comments) says:

    Just like how Labour under Cunliffe will summon “the missing million” from their slumber here – by offering a stark, leftwing alternative.

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  42. mikenmild (10,739 comments) says:

    Victory lies in the centre.

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  43. Liam Hehir (103 comments) says:

    Agreed. And politicians generally can’t shift the centre.

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  44. mikenmild (10,739 comments) says:

    Hence National’s successful move to adopt its predecessor’s policies, leaving Labour nowhere to go but leftwards.

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  45. Pete George (22,849 comments) says:

    Labour could compete with National in the centre but that would mean they would have to convince voters they would be more competent at doing similar things. They don’t seem prepared to attempt that to any extent.

    Policies are of some interest but under MMP perceptions of competence (or incompetence of incumbents) are a major factor in deciding elections.

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  46. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    “Agreed. And politicians generally can’t shift the centre.”

    Spoken like a true RINO alright.

    Tell that to Reagan and Thatcher.

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  47. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    “OK – so how does the GOP get “the missing four million” to vote?”

    A start would be to stop so spinelessly seeking the left’s approval of their candidate.

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  48. Liam Hehir (103 comments) says:

    I don’t think I’m a RINO, mostly because I’m not a member of the Republican Party at all.

    I also don’t think National has “adopted” Labour policies. But i has accepted they are here to stay for a while – John Key reminds me of President Eisenhower more than anyone else.

    I think National tries to keep as true to its values as possible while remaining electorally viable. If you want it to move to the right, then create the conditions that would allow it to do so.

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  49. dime (9,435 comments) says:

    The republicans just have to wait.

    the US is getting poorer and poorer.

    their economy is fucked.

    their stock market is propped up by all this stimulas cash.. the tap will be turned off soon.

    hopefully we dont get fucked too hard by it. it will do their smug, lazy asses the world of good too.

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  50. Pete George (22,849 comments) says:

    If you want it to move to the right, then create the conditions that would allow it to do so.

    Or if you want to move in any direction. If the conditions aren’t right and you try you can get punished (politically) for it.

    The conditions were right for marriage equality changes and it ended up happening quite comfortably, in line with changing conditions in other parts of the world.

    In contrast despite moves in many other countries to sensibly review of cannabis laws that aren’t working the conditions have moved against it here.

    Ironically that’s because the conditions were right for a ground breaking change to how we deal with synthetic drugs, but swung against because of the perception that drug problems were getting worse (when in fact they only looked worse due to fewer drug users concentrated in much fewer locations, and media choosing to make news of it).

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  51. unaha-closp (1,112 comments) says:

    To be fair to the GOP the centre in America consists of 60% of the population who don’t vote. No one knows where it is.

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  52. Gulag1917 (658 comments) says:

    People are confused what National stands for they keep shifting all the time.

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  53. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    You guys sound just like those who wrote the UKIP off as swivel eyed loons a few years ago. What did Nigel Farage do? Move towards the culture or did he move it towards the UKIP party.

    Just losers with you self fulfilling prophesies and your prog mindsets.

    As suggested above, just chock full of LW talking points.

    The far left MSM only has to dream up a meme every now and then and sure enough there’s a bunch of poorly informed mugs out there who will buy into it hook line and sinker.

    Nigel Farage does the alleged impossible-

    http://truebluenz.com/2014/05/04/nigel-farage-does-the-alleged-impossible/

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  54. Bingo99 (64 comments) says:

    UKIP are swivel eyed loons. They rely on the protest vote when the voters are fed up with the established parties or want to send a message.

    Meanwhile, Reddy ol chum, you seem to be a little confused as to the purpose of elections. They are an opportunity to express a popular opinion as to who should lead the population. Popular meaning, the majority. To succeed in winning the majority, you (or in our system, your side) has to win the majority of votes. This means being a curmudgeonly, belligerent, every-phobic-in-the-book, regressive ass is unlikely to be a winning strategy.

    So I’m afraid, Reddy ol pal, those voters you so assiduously despise, are the very people you need to advance your agenda. So am I interchangeable with a “labour voter” (which is what, exactly, given we’re all potentially labour voters?) – yes I suppose so. If National goes crazy bonkers, if they adopt your approach and become the swivel eyed loons you support, if they degenerate into incompetence and/or corruption, certainly I would seek an alternative, and that would have to be Labour. Would I want to? Not really and certainly not under the present leadership or caucus. But I’d have to grin and bear it, at least for a term so National could sort itself out.

    But given how well National are managing their stuff now, I don’t see that as being very likely. And it’s people like me, Reddy my dear, that you have to fear the most. Because there’s always the possibility I could switch sides, or just not bother to vote. And then you’re sunset days will be under a red flag with your mandated husband by your side.

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  55. unaha-closp (1,112 comments) says:

    The EU is a large, underperforming, seething mass of crap that allows the UKIP to gain traction. There is nothing similar to that here.

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  56. Gulag1917 (658 comments) says:

    The EU is a dictatorship and people in huge numbers are waking up and the result will be devolution to the nation states.

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  57. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    ….”And then you’re sunset days will be under a red flag with your mandated husband by your side.”…..

    Don’t worry….Baity saw the writing on the wall. He stocked up on KY & kneeling pads ages back. :)

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  58. thedavincimode (6,534 comments) says:

    What’s your view on Sarah Palin?

    I understand that she has extraordinary eyesight.

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  59. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    Isn’t it time for you and Narsekissa to put on that Brokeback Mountain DVD again? Or is it Deliverance tonight?

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  60. thedavincimode (6,534 comments) says:

    It’ll be Deliverance. We replay the scene where you get skewered.

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  61. wiseowl (762 comments) says:

    Bingo bongo.
    You’re still on your learner cycle.
    You’ll understand one day.

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  62. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    “We replay the scene where you get skewered.”

    Come off it.

    Its obvious you’re the fat little piggie and Narsekissa is the toothless hillbilly.

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  63. Redbaiter (7,628 comments) says:

    “You’ll understand one day.”

    With idiots like that representing it, it suggests the National Party has reached its tipping point and is a lost cause.

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  64. big bruv (13,296 comments) says:

    “What’s your view on Sarah Palin?”

    Well Bedwetter, seeing as you asked I think she is bat shit crazy. She is also one of the main reasons that your mate Obama got elected POTUS. Any sane, normal person (this rules out the bible bashers and Tauranga pensioners) looked at the options and then considered what might happen to the USA if for some reason Palin had to assume the Presidency.

    While Obama might not have been the best thing for the USA he was a far better bet than Palin, the rest of the world sighed a huge sigh of relief when that stupid bint was denied the chance to be VP.

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  65. ShawnLH (3,426 comments) says:

    “Any sane, normal person (this rules out the bible bashers”

    No, it rules out insane mass murdering atheists.

    The 20th century had enough of atheist regimes. They murdered hundreds of millions.

    By comparison to the BB’s, Nasska’s and Wat Babney’s on this site Palin is a brain surgeon.

    The polls show the Republicans on track to win back the Senate, so the article’s attempt to compare Labour to the Republicans has it’s facts badly wrong.

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  66. big bruv (13,296 comments) says:

    Shawn

    “The 20th century had enough of atheist regimes. They murdered hundreds of millions.”

    I am not going to waste my time point out to you again that your statement is a blatant lie (as per the norm for religious apologists such as yourself)

    Religion is the master killer Shawn, always has been, and will continue to be so just as long as people like you prefer to embrace stone age superstition over science.

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  67. Bingo99 (64 comments) says:

    Actually Red I’m genuinely curious…who did you vote for in 84 and 87? I was in single digits but would have gone Labour. They were, afterall, both right of National and progressive. And did you support Muldoon, our biggest socialist since Savage?

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