Labour MPs speak up against Mana-DotCom alliance.

June 3rd, 2014 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Andrea Vance at Stuff reports:

Senior Party MPs have used social media to attack the alliance struck between Mana and the Internet Party.

Former leaders Phil Goff and David Shearer, and Rimutaka MP Chris Hipkins, are among those who have objected to the deal. It could see MPs from Kim Dotcom’s fledging political vehicle enter Parliament on the ‘‘coat-tails’’ of a victory for Hone Harawira in .

The strong opposition from within Labour could make post-election coalition talks tricky.

Goff says he feel strongly about Dotcom’s ‘‘pure political opportunism’’, citing his previous donations to ACT MP John Banks, now the subject of a court case. ‘‘He wants to be able to influence and control politicians.’’

Goff has it in one.

Goff says he made his feelings clear to the Labour caucus. ‘‘It will be the decision of the party leadership…but I see problems in creating a coalition where the philosophies and principle of people that you are trying to enter into a coalition with is unclear because they seem to be coming from diametrically opposed positions.’’

Those  views were also reflected in a passionate Facebook post at the weekend. Shearer also used the social media site to write that although he wished the Internet-Mana ‘‘marriage’’ well, he knew ‘‘it’s going to end badly.’’

And on Twitter last week, Hipkins posted: ‘‘The good old days, when political parties formed from movements. Now all it takes is a couple of million and some unprincipled sellouts.’’

All three MPs were linked to the Anyone But Cunliffe [ABC] faction – who were opposed to David Cunliffe assuming leadership of the party. However, a Labour source played down talk of more division, saying all three were close to Te Tai Tokerau candidate Kelvin Davis.

They want to stop Davis being told to lose the seat. That doesn’t mean Davis will be withdrawn – it will be more subtle than that. Their fear is he will be told to tone down his rhetoric, and to not push too hard.

The reality is he can win the seat if he pushes hard enough for it. Harawira’s effective taking of $3 million from Dotcom will go down badly with many Te Tai Tokerau constituents. David only needs to win 500 over to take the seat off Harawira.

Tags: , ,

65 Responses to “Labour MPs speak up against Mana-DotCom alliance.”

  1. jp_1983 (213 comments) says:

    Good to see that the ABC’s is making it mainstream now

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. thePeoplesFlag (247 comments) says:

    Goff and Shearer. Yesterday’s men.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 17 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. stephen2d (83 comments) says:

    Goff and Shearer may be yesterday’s men, but – boy – Cunliffe is so irrelevant that even those “yesterday’s men” suddenly look more appealing and relevant today compared to David Cunliffe.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    Some on the left are going ape over Labour not rolling over for Internet-MANA, notably Chris Trotter at The Daily Blog.

    Kelvin Davis remains staunch in wanting to strongly contest Te Tai Tokerau. Yesterday he went on the attack with this tweet:

    ‏@NgatiBird
    Sorta ironic that in 1914 Mata Hari was a German agent, and in 2014 there’s Laila. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mata_Hari

    And Cunliffe clearly supported contesting Te Tai Tokerau on Q & A.

    David Cunliffe: I can assure voters that Labour is contesting vigorously all seven Maori seats and we think we have the opportunity to win all seven.

    Kelvin Davis is a terrific candidate as you have no doubt heard, he is passionate about representing the people of Te Tai Tokerau, and we’re backing him to do that.

    Labour staunch in contesting Te Tai Tokerau

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Nigel Kearney (1,019 comments) says:

    >Goff and Shearer. Yesterday’s men.

    Yes, they want to go back to the days when Labour used to win elections.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (890 comments) says:

    This is all pure eye wash. They are pretending that they are clean. Wait for them to queue up to shake hands with DotCon and Horny during coalition talks. I hope National sweeps the poll with more than 50% of the votes. That is the only way all these jokers can be stopped from economically ruining our country.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Rich Prick (1,705 comments) says:

    Why do I get the feeling Lou Vincent is running Labour’s Te Tai Tokerau strategy?

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. burt (8,275 comments) says:

    Meanwhile Dotcom keeps rolling out policies that are directly targeting younger disenfranchised voters and National are trying very hard to pick the “Nanny state” award up from Labour.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    It does not matter what the ABC group says. The socialist Labour Party is held by the balls by the unions, the Rainbow branch and other hard-left factions. On top of it, the arrogant Silent T sides with the nutters.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. eszett (2,417 comments) says:

    They want to stop Davis being told to lose the seat. That doesn’t mean Davis will be withdrawn – it will be more subtle than that. Their fear is he will be told to tone down his rhetoric, and to not push too hard.

    Will National do the same to it’s electorate candidates when it comes to Colin Craig and ACT, I wonder?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    The left is splitting. The Labour and Green parties/caucuses seem to recognise the dangers of any association with Dotcom and don’t want anything to do with him. The extreme left thought the Dotcom/Internet Party/MANA/Harre/McCarten strategy was a game changer and would install a much more left leaning coalition.

    Last week they were applauding their cleverness. Now that are going ape because Labour won’t roll over an play their game.

    Martyn Bradbury:

    So what Goff, Hipkins, Mallard, Davis and Shearer are really saying is…

    … that if the difference is between changing the Government using a supply and confidence arrangement with Internet MANA or allowing John Key to remain as leader, they would let John Key win???

    Would these MPs cross the floor and join John Key? How far are they willing to take this charade?

    The self mutilating ego on display is concerning. Internet MANA is better resourced than the National Party and provides the parliamentary majority. To suggest they are a puppet for Kim Dotcom is farcical when you know Hone, Laila, Annette or John, and the left are simply exploiting the exact same tactic the Right have used since MMP was created. Get over the moral outrage and focus on the fact many NZers need a change of Government and to date Labour + Greens haven’t managed that.

    David Cunliffe will do what is best for NZ, and if reaching across the political spectrum to make an arrangement with Laila and Hone is what is needed to get rid of John Key, then what kind of leader of the Labour Party would he be if he wasn’t prepared to do that?
    The arrogance at their hyper sensitivity is breathtaking and proof that some on the Left would prefer to control the losing team rather than lose control of the wining team.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/06/03/so-what-goff-hipkins-mallard-davis-and-shearer-are-really-saying-is/

    Chris Trotter:

    Why David Cunliffe needs to come clean with the Labour Left

    It’s time for you to wise up, David. The voters who thrilled to your election as Labour’s leader won’t take much more of this. Nor will Labour’s left-wing membership. If they had wanted a continuation of the political lethargy and ideological flabbiness that’s characterised their party’s parliamentary leadership since Helen Clark’s departure, then the rank-and-file and the unions would have given their votes to somebody else.

    Just work your way through it logically.

    If the Labour caucus is unwilling to concede ground on policy matters to the Greens; if this is the reason so many of them would prefer to work with the ideologically undemanding Mr Peters; and, if caucus’s antipathy to the prospect of having to deal with Hone Harawira, Laila Harré, Annette Sykes and John Minto is (at least) ten times greater than its hostility towards the Greens; then what will happen if the only government (other than a Grand Coalition) that can be formed when the votes have been counted is a Labour/Green/Internet-Mana Party coalition?
    Can you guarantee both your party and your electoral base that the Labour caucus won’t split apart rather than accept the policy consequences of such a radical coalition?

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/06/02/truth-or-dare-why-david-cunliffe-needs-to-come-clean-with-the-labour-left/

    Money doesn’t buy everything in politics. The extreme left may have taken over the Internet Party but Labour won’t give in so easily.

    A Internet-MANA dicated coalition would likely be toxic to most voters – and non-voters if they bothered to take any notice.

    Extreme left ambitions and a wiling sugar daddy seem to have been overwhelmed political realism.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. James Stephenson (2,191 comments) says:

    It does not matter what the ABC group says.

    What is comes down to is Davis’ own aspirations, because he looks to me to have the kind of broad appeal and leadership qualities that Labour so badly lack. If he’s there as an electorate, rather than list MP, then that makes him an obvious candidate for leader when Cunliffe loses the election.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. tom hunter (4,895 comments) says:

    Will National do the same to it’s electorate candidates when it comes to Colin Craig and ACT, I wonder?

    There appear to be enough similarities between National, Act and the Conservative parties that the differences can be overcome or overlooked and National is probably quite happy to lose those voters and get them on the seat counting rebound.

    By contrast, judging from this spat, the same cannot be said for Labour and Mana-Internet, and I wonder how the Greens feel about the latter, considering they’re targeting many of the same voters.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. ChardonnayGuy (1,207 comments) says:

    The Internet Party sounds similar to the policy agenda advanced by the German Pirate Party and its cyberlibertarian counterparts in New Zealand, Sweden, Austria, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, Spain, Australia, Brazil, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Estonia, France, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, India, Italy, Luxembourg, Mexico, Nepal, Norway, Slovenia, Poland, Switzerland, Tunisia and the United Kingdom. Of these, state German Pirate Parties have won state legislature and city council seats, the Czech Pirate Party has a Senate and city council seats, the Iceland Pirate Party has three parliamentary seats in its national parliament, the Swedish Pirate Party elected two European Parliamentary members and the Swiss Pirate Party has two municipal councillors while the Catalonian Pirate Party has two municipal councillors. So, parliamentary and local council representation does seem possible, although it seems to be the case that cyberlibertarian parties have had their greatest success in European politics, particularly within the German state and municipal context.

    Could that be replicated here? There were considerable public protests about Key administration online surveillance and data interception legislation and its potentially chilling effects on government transparency and accountability and civil liberties. However, the federal German Pirate Party failed to pick up Bundestag seats due to its political naivetie and absence of legislative experience. Still, electing Laila Harre as leader seems one way to offset the headaches that caused the downfall of Germany’s Pirate Party and led to its absence of Bundestag representation.

    On balance, I think some of the more cautious Labour elements are right to be so. Like Colin Craig, his mirror image, Kim Dotcom has had no previous practical experience of political office and because of that, expect organisational and practical teething problems. Do Kiwiblog’s centre-right readers still endorse the retention of anti-democratic ‘coat tail’ provisions which could allow the MIC into Parliament?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I don’t know why so many talk about the likely instability of a Labour/Greens/NZ First/Internet/Mana coalition. Such an outcome is extremely unlikely. We all know the next government will be a National/NZ First one, with Sir Winston Peters as co-Prime Minister.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. alloytoo (546 comments) says:

    In acknowledging that Kim tried (and failed) to buy John Banks, Goff is also acknowledging that Mana has sold out lock stock and barrel.

    The only question that remains, is whether Russel Norman has Dotcom’s knife sticking out his back, or if this is part of the master plan agreed to when he was summoned to Coatsville.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Harriet (4,979 comments) says:

    Looks like union money will now have be used to retain Labour seats. That’ll hurt when they’re fighting their own. And they think they can run NZ incorporated? LOL!

    The members are the useful idiots. As usual. :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    I think Norman has probably backed right off any involvement with Dotcom.

    Labour seem to have backed off as well – but it’s worth watching what happens within Labour relating to McCarten’s involvement, he has close connections with MANA and Harre.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    Chardonnay Guy – ” Do Kiwiblog’s centre-right readers still endorse the retention of anti-democratic ‘coat tail’ provisions which could allow the MIC into Parliament?”

    As one who always thought the coat-tail provisions were stupid and illogical (what were they thinking when they came up with that?), I believe that the Internet Party corruption has gone well beyond simple coat-tailing.

    It leads me to want to drop MMP altogether. It had its day in the sun, and now we know all the nay-sayers regarding the tail wagging the dog were right after all. Dump it.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    Pete – ” think Norman has probably backed right off any involvement with Dotcom.”

    Well I think he is already signed up to veto DotCom’s extradition. Who needs a court process anyway when you will have a Red-Green anti-American Minister of Justice?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. Ed Snack (1,883 comments) says:

    ChardonnayGuy, but the various “Pirate” parties in Europe are ideologically a very long way from Leila Harre and the hard-left Socialist Unity entity that has emerged here. There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors going on here, the left is trying really hard to pull a fast one on the electorate as a whole. The Internet Party for a start, with the leadership it has appointed, it is a hard left party (not sure if trotskyite, maoist, or stalinist, but who really cares except those inside), but it is trying to appeal to a combination of “geekdom” and the young unengaged voters. I suspect Labour is in on this, or at least Cunliffe is, and the talk about winning Te Tai Tokerau is another snow job, they’ll talk it up to avoid the taint, but Davis will be undermined all the way.

    Will it work, I guess it probably will; no one ever really was disappointed by over-estimating the stupidity and rapacity of the general electorate, the younger part especially.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. ross411 (842 comments) says:

    When Labour have a chief of staff who unrepentantly steals his employee’s money, because he believes he should be able to give it to Labour, then who can rely on the party to be honest?

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Goofy and Mumblefuck won’t get invites to the rainbow rectum reaming room with these beliefs. Wonder if “Tojo” has repaid his donation from the obese German felon, and has Norman repaid his?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. ChardonnayGuy (1,207 comments) says:

    OT- I think it was in the Royal Commission into the Electoral System back in 1986. The Electoral Act 1993 then provided a five percent threshold and weakened coat tail provision. In Germany, two Bundestag constituency MPs have to be elected before the party is entitled to coat tail top-up MPs. I always thought that the two-MP rule was far more sensible than the single bolthole constituency MP malarkey we’ve had to put up with here.

    And as for MMP, it works well in Germany- witness the ascendancy of Chancellor Merkel and the CDU at present.

    Okay, granted, yes, I am being consistent here. I oppose MIC using the coat tail provisions to get into Parliament for the same reason I similarly oppose similar provision being made for the Conservatives…

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. ChardonnayGuy (1,207 comments) says:

    Ed, from what I’ve read about the German Pirate Party, it was amateur hour and some of its candidates were spouting ratbag anti-Semitic bullshit. It had zero party discipline and lacked a coherent agenda, which are baseline recipes for political failure.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. ross411 (842 comments) says:

    Pete George (22,060 comments) says:
    June 3rd, 2014 at 9:58 am
    I think Norman has probably backed right off any involvement with Dotcom.

    Norman is an “ends justify the means” kind of guy. His shrill faith-based approach to politics doesn’t hold to “I think” and “probably” getting in the way.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. Ed Snack (1,883 comments) says:

    CG, yep, that’s about the average for the Pirates. But the IP in NZ isn’t that at all, it’s a far-left socialist action party with significant funding. It isn’t anything like the Pirate’s except for a brief passing similarity in their rhetoric about internet access. That’s just the figleaf that Leila Harre wants you to look at.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Can someone tell me why Cunliffe is referred to as “Tojo”??

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    I can’t stand Labour but i despise the Mana and Internet parties even more, so I will say….

    *** GO DAVIS!!! ***

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    igm will put you right on that, David.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. ChardonnayGuy (1,207 comments) says:

    Ed, the Internet Party seems to be little more than cyberlibertarian at the moment. Merely because Laila’s there at the top proves very little. They seem to have little or no other elaborated policies beyond their cyberlibertarianism, and it’s only three months out from the election now.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    What a terrible joke this is…As others have noted, there is considerable “crossover” in policy and philosophy between National ACT and Conservative…but what the hell does this totally cynical group have in common? I would suggest nothing more than a desire for power…even the fact that their agreement only lasts until six weeks after the election…breathtaking…

    The awful thing is that a lot of younger voters wont see any of this…they’ll just see the fat German – whose antics they kinda like – and a bunch of old people who he has teamed up with to get into parliament…

    Milky: while a Labour/Green/Mana/Dotcom coalition may be unlikely, the effects of a government made up thus are almost too frightening to contemplate…

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. burt (8,275 comments) says:

    Giving jobs to the old troughers Corkery & Haare must make aging feminists very proud. This proves that woman can do anything – like completely sell out for cash like the middle aged men these feminists have been critical of for years.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    David – what aspect of a Labour-led government frightens you the most? It seems to me it would be quite similar to the last Labour government, i.e. not too dissimilar to what we have now.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. contheneo (27 comments) says:

    I note that Hone’s majority in TTT is 300 less than the number of people who party voted National in the seat at the last election.
    http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2011/electorate-68.html

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. Nigel Kearney (1,019 comments) says:

    >but what the hell does this totally cynical group have in common?

    The Internet party’s position on intellectual property rights is the same as the position that Mana, and the extreme left generally, have for all property rights. That is a significant core belief that they have in common.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    – what aspect of a Labour-led government frightens you the most?

    I don’t think it’s easy to state a ‘most’ but there are a number of candidates.

    Lack of competence in Labour.
    Who knows what Cunliffe would actually try to do.
    Many even from the left have concerns about Greens anywhere near Finance.
    Greens anti-mining/drilling/industry
    Kim Dotcom
    Internet Party
    Mana Party
    Hone Harawira
    John Minto
    Laile Harre
    Winston Peters
    NZ First

    ‘Most’ would have to be a combination of all of the above. Which is a possible outcome of the election.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    The differences on the left continue with more semi-official Labour distancing from the extremists – Rob Salmond with Meanwhile, in Bomber-land – endorsed and reposted at The Standard where there will be more discussion.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Harriet (4,979 comments) says:

    “…….David – what aspect of a Labour-led government frightens you the most? It seems to me it would be quite similar to the last Labour government, i.e. not too dissimilar to what we have now…..”

    LOL Milky………..telling us Conservatives & Nat voters that Labour and the gimps are as bad as National currently is.

    Keep them coming Milky. :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    mike – ” It seems to me it would be quite similar to the last Labour government, i.e. not too dissimilar to what we have now.”

    I don’t remember Helen standing on a bus in Avondale. I also believe she had a calculator that worked.

    Hard-left Labour, circa 2014, would be significantly different than Labour-Lite National.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. georgebolwing (869 comments) says:

    The political chattering classes, of which I will freely admit to being one, get very excited by the actions of groups like Mana, ACT, the IP and the CCCP.

    But the reality is that elections in New Zealand (and Australia) are still largely contests between two large parties that have grown closer to each other in what they do in Government (as opposed to what they say they will do in Government).

    In the 35 years I have been eligible to vote, I have seen numerous new parties/movements spring-up, all promising to be a “new force” and to bring a “new approach” to government.

    While the advent of the internet has greatly reduced the cost of connecting to the electorate, all of these parties/movements have failed for the same reasons: once they actually get to exercise political power, they cannot compromise. being idealists of one sort or another, they expect to govern according to the principle that moved them to action.

    Government, even the legislative branch as opposed to the executive, remains the art of the possible. Every successful political leader in this part of the world has know which fights to pick and which to let pass.

    The Alliance, New Zealand First, ACT and the United Party all failed as members/supporters of a government dominated by a major party, in the end, because they were asked to make one compromise too many.

    Mana, the IP and the Greens will face the same challenge and, I am confident, will fail.

    The road to success for both National and Labour is to remind the electorate that this is serious business for grown-ups and that in the end, a vote for any minor party is a vote for unstable government. National will find this easier, but I suspect that the few remaining wise heads in Labour will want to do the same.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Of all the minor parties, I think the Greens have the best chance of being a successful coalition party and not travelling the road taken by the Alliance, NZ First, Act, United Future and the Maori Party to electoral oblivion. They have an ideology that appeals to a sufficient core of voters that will withstand the inevitable buffeting of coalition deals. I still don’t think they will get the chance this time around though.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. Harriet (4,979 comments) says:

    “…..this is serious business for grown-ups and that in the end, a vote for any minor party is a vote for unstable government…..”

    i agreed with everything else.

    The Conservatives by their very nature are stable. That’s what conservatism is about – stability.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    But you are a conservative, Harriet…

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Harriet (4,979 comments) says:

    “….But you are a conservative, Harriet……”

    Nice try Milky.

    So why did you say that National is as fucken useless as DotCash, Munted, The Groans & Laborted would be? :cool:

    You did say it Milky!

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Don the Kiwi (1,763 comments) says:

    If Cunliffe and Norman did in fact get money from Dotcon, if Dotcon were to announce that at a strategically important moment, it would really put a huge hole in Liarbore and the Gweens.

    Wouldn’t that be fun. :lol:

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. burt (8,275 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi

    Not interesting at all really – If it’s a “nasty right wing” party who got the cash then there must be a court case and heads must roll – but it’s different when the left do it – Move on !

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. georgebolwing (869 comments) says:

    I agree that the Greens have managed to be a very effective opposition party and are showing more maturity. But government in Germany and (as a support partner) Australia was not a happy experience for them.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. DrDr (114 comments) says:

    I see someone like Kelvin Davis as being the future of the Labour Party, so I would like to see him win the seat. If he doesn’t, he runs the risk of being ranked too low on the list to get back in.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I didn’t say that National would be useless, Harriet. I said that a Labour-led government would not be too disimilar in outlook from the present National-led government.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. georgebolwing (869 comments) says:

    Harriet: while “lower case c” conservatives are cautious people who favour the status quo over all else, I think that Colin Craig’s Conservative Party has batshit crazy tendencies and, like the evangelical wing of the United Future party that came out of the woodwork after the 2002, will crash and burn if asked to do things like vote for a budget that funds the Abortion Supervision Committee or provide foreign aid to Muslim countries.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. burt (8,275 comments) says:

    mikenmild

    So given that position, your history of being staunchly anti National … Is that just repeating the words that mummy & daddy told you years ago ?

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. Harriet (4,979 comments) says:

    “…..Colin Craig’s Conservative Party has batshit crazy tendencies………….will crash and burn if asked to do things like vote for a budget that funds the Abortion Supervision Committee or provide foreign aid to Muslim countries….”

    Fully informing women, or overseeing how aid is best spent is not ‘batshit crazy’.

    It’s called being responsable.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    burt
    I wouldn’t describe myself as staunchly anti-National. I do enjoy pointing out the similarities on well, just about every issue of substance, between Labour and National.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    Milkmilo: I wouldn’t describe myself as staunchly anti-National….

    Just as I wouldn’t describe you as ever being likely to get a heart attack from overwork, Milky….

    If ever you wonder why folk (such as me) hold the Public Service in such low regard, just check out the timing of your posts…. day after day after day…. the only breaks are when you bugger off for lunch!

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Harriet (4,979 comments) says:

    “….I didn’t say that National would be useless, Harriet. I said that a Labour-led government would not be too disimilar in outlook from the present National-led government….”

    Stop talking shit.

    You left the first bit out – where you said that a Labour led government would be ‘quite similar’ as the last Labour government – and which is not ‘too disimilar’ to National now.

    Why would you suggest to National voters that National is that dismal a proposition Milky? :cool:

    You a closet conservatve Milky? C’mon – come out!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Poor Elaycee, I feel your pain. Must get back to work now.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. JeffW (327 comments) says:

    “Harawira’s effective taking of $3 million from Dotcom will go down badly with many Te Tai Tokerau constituents”.

    I’m not sure about that; perhaps taking money off white folks is exactly what many of them aspire to?

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. burt (8,275 comments) says:

    JeffW

    Yep, if they are short sighted enough to think that $3m comes without any expectations then… it’s lucky he didn’t offer them blankets and whiskey !

    Taking money of rich white people may be what they aspire to, being beholden to the “rich white MOFO’s” isn’t something likely to sit well with them…. But for $3m … here are my principles, if you don’t like them I have others.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. georgebolwing (869 comments) says:

    What is batshit crazy, among a very long list, is (a) treating issues that the vast majority of people don’t care about as if they are the most important thing in the world and (b) treating every issue as if it is make or break.

    Bill English and Jim Anderton, both practicing and serious Catholics, are/were prepared to be members of a Cabinet that agreed, every year, to fund the Abortion Supervision Committee, because neither is batshit crazy (OK, Anderton is closer, but he isn’t Tea Party batshit crazy).

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. eszett (2,417 comments) says:

    There appear to be enough similarities between National, Act and the Conservative parties that the differences can be overcome or overlooked and National is probably quite happy to lose those voters and get them on the seat counting rebound.

    By contrast, judging from this spat, the same cannot be said for Labour and Mana-Internet, and I wonder how the Greens feel about the latter, considering they’re targeting many of the same voters.

    A complete red herring, tom.

    The point was, that DPF is happily pointing to Labour candidates who oppose giving Hone a free ride into parliament. He seems to think that allowing/forcing Kalvin Davis to concede the seat to Hone is a bad thing. And I agree.

    But will he be so staunch when it comes to National having another cup of tea with ACT and Conservatives?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    I don’t think it’s likely National will do an electorate deal with Colin Craig, they were sucked in and badly burned last election and Act already held Epsom then. Creating an opportunity for Craig is a much bigger and riskier step.

    And National may not be keen on risking Craig trying to dictate terms in a coalition either. Running Government by referendum is supposedly a Conservative bottom line but unless they can come up with some radical variation to CIR then it would grind new legislation to a crawl.

    This leaves National scant options but the way the left are going they may be happy to take their chances.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    mikenwimp: As has been posted previously, being a Labourite you have done nothing, achieved nothing, have nothing, are nothing, and want everything for nothing. It amuses me how your kind have the gall to state what is wrong when your personal positions are far from exemplary.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I feel that you lack a little sunshine in your life, igm.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. Warren Murray (311 comments) says:

    “David only needs to win 500 over to take the seat off Harawira.” I thought this figure seemed very low, so checked the result. KD was second in the 2011, 1165 votes behind HH. The Maori Party’s candidate got a respectable 3100 odd votes, so if those people shifted, once again the result could have been very different. If 600 of HH’s voters gave their vote to KD, Labour would take the seat. Labour did much better in the party vote, 2000 votes more than Mana. I was surprised how many party votes went to NZ FIrst, National and the Greens.

    Statistically winnable for KD I’d say, but if HH has mega bucks to throw at his campaign in the electorate, it could be hard for KD to compete. Even harder when his own party is sending mixed messages.

    Compared to a general constituency the turnout seems quite low.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote