Latest poll

June 17th, 2014 at 1:00 pm by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

The Internet-Mana Party would get two seats in Parliament based on the first major poll since the two parties cut a deal to stand together.

But, three months shy of the election, Labour is still struggling and the left bloc is well adrift from National, which could easily govern alone based on theHerald-DigiPoll survey.

The results for the Mana Party, Internet Party and Internet-Mana Party totalled 1.4 per cent in the survey – a modest start for the newly launched party which was the centre of attention in the lead-up to the polling period.

That is enough to get new Internet Party leader Laila Harre into Parliament if Mana leader Hone Harawira holds his Te Tai Tokerau electorate.

But the votes appear to have been at the expense of the Green Party which dropped to 11 per cent, down 2.5 points since the last Herald-DigiPoll survey in March.

One extra MP for Mana, and three less MPs for the Greens. I’ll take that!

That will worry the Greens, especially if Internet-Mana, bankrolled with $3 million from Kim Dotcom, starts to pick up more momentum.

Yep.

With a party vote based on the poll of 50.4 per cent, National maintains a strong lead and is 20 points ahead of Labour which is up one to 30.5 per cent. National would have 64 seats, enough to govern without any support partners and 10 more seats than the left bloc of Labour, the Greens and Internet-Mana.

95 days to go.

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119 Responses to “Latest poll”

  1. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    Shame is, if the National Party hadn’t capitulated to Progressivism, and instead worked hard to draw NZ in the opposite direction by swaying them to the cause of small govt and reduced taxes, then a large part of the country would not be in the thrall of mindless leftists who are blind to the damage they have done in every other country where they have convinced the people to listen to them.

    Whereas National are undeniably popular, they are still little more than Helen Klark’s govt in drag, and the election is by no means a fait accompli for Key and his boys (and girls).

    Six years of good Conservative rhetoric would have consigned the far/ extreme left to the dustbins of history they belong in, but it hasn’t happened so we’re still unfortunately facing the potential threat of government by loons.

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  2. DrDr (114 comments) says:

    “One extra MP for Mana, and three less MPs for the Greens. I’ll take that!”

    All the more reason for Kelvin Davis to take Tai Tokerau – that would have a double whammy effect

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  3. Raphael (88 comments) says:

    National’s biggest foe in this election will be complacency from their supporters.

    If you want the party you support to have a chance, get out there and vote for them.

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  4. Griff (7,808 comments) says:

    I agree with red (fuck that actually hurt)
    Maybe it is time… if national are going to win for us on the right to give more support to the fringes of the right like act and the conservatives
    I still don’t think colon grag is the man who will truly represent the views of Conservatives I think he has not got the nous intelligence or depth of knowledge to drive a party forward successfully on a truly conservative platform as espoused by many on KB.

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  5. burt (8,275 comments) says:

    Red

    I think National is Labour out of drag – not in drag.

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  6. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    Let’s wait for the opinion of the standard bearer of Labour’s Rainbow Branch, the delicate Lynn Prentice, chief censor at The sub-Standard.

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  7. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    Spot on assessment by Redbaiter.

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  8. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Cunliffe says his popularity will be way up there come election time.

    He says its early days yet !!

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  9. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    There is something in Reddy’s take on this, a tiny shred of insight. National has carved out a position in the centre that includes a lot of people who were happy to vote for the last Labour government. National actually has no room to pursue more rightist polices, coz there ain’t any more voters out that way. Best to leave that loonier fringe to Colin Craig and whoever is leading Act for the moment.

    The true battle ground is those voters who could be persuaded to switch from National back to Labour. It went the other way when they got a bit sick of Helen Clark and John Key seemed a personable and unthreatening alternative.

    What we can be assured of is that there is no imminent threat to the National/Labour consensus that has prevailed since 1984.

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  10. OTGO (557 comments) says:

    Yep I’m with Redbaiter too.
    Just have a look at what leads the news any night of the week or in any morning newspaper and you’ll quickly realise why anything to the right of Labour doesn’t get traction.
    Heading up the news the other day was a headline stating, “Collins back on Twitter” Really? FFS what dickhead promoted that as news?

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  11. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    Six years of good Conservative rhetoric would have consigned the far/ extreme left to the dustbins of history

    :lol: LOL – yes, of course it would have. Of course it would have. It would have been just like your ten-year war on socialism in the blogosphere; only, in real life.

    I would welcome a right coalition government with some strong Conservative arguments from Colin and some strong Libertarian arguments from Act. It might even educate the country. But so far, neither of those parties have really covered themselves in glory…

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  12. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    In New Zealand terms, a conservative government is one which preserves the reforms of its predecessors. National governments are conservative governments.

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  13. Nigel Kearney (1,019 comments) says:

    National actually has no room to pursue more rightist polices, coz there ain’t any more voters out that way.

    This is the wrong way to look at it. Change is often unpopular, but good policies become popular after people see that they work. For example, compare the 1984 and 1987 election results after the Roger Douglas reforms.

    In fact, every change of government in my lifetime, National or Labour, has been preceded by a significant lurch to the left not the right. This may not be entirely cause and effect, maybe both parties just respond to bad polling by spending a lot. But it is rare for a government to lose an election after spending cuts.

    Also, the bigger picture is that National winning elections doesn’t help anyone unless they roll back Labour’s spending increases. It is just a slower way of losing.

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  14. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    “Shame is, if the National Party hadn’t capitulated to Progressivism,”

    Why does anybody uptick this sort of rubbish from Bedwetter?

    Had the Nat’s adhered to Bedwetters “advice” they would still be in opposition, NZ would be broke and Helen Klark would be in her fifth term safe in the knowledge that she had the job as PM for life. I know it is difficult to imagine Klark being more corrupt but after five terms she would have reached the stage where any criticism of her would be deemed illegal.

    What Bedwetter fails to grasp is that John Key got it dead right when he said that NZ is a centre left country, while many of us do not like that idea it is a statement of fact. To re-educate the people of NZ away from being centre left is going to take a lot longer than six years and will not be achieved by a hard right blitzkrieg from Key and the Nat’s.

    Bedwetters dream of a slash and burn government would have seen them turfed out after one term and the immediate reversal of any policies implemented by National.

    While Key might test the patience of many of us he is doing the right thing, to drag Kiwis off the social welfare tit and to get them to embrace personal responsibility is not going to happen overnight, Key needs three to four terms to entrench his policy so that the next Labour government would not dream of making changes.

    So, yes John Key might be infuriating at times but I take solace from the fact that if Bedwetter thinks that Key is doing the wrong thing then Key has it pretty much right.

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  15. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘Key needs three to four terms to entrench his policy so that the next Labour government would not dream of making changes.’
    In which term do you think he will be emboldened to make any changes to what he inherited from Clark?

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  16. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    RRM>I would welcome a right coalition government with some strong Conservative arguments from Colin

    You won’t get strong arguments of any kind from Craig, because Craig is impossibly dim. Would a non-dim person have:

    1. Tried to sue The Civilian over a satirical blog post? That’s about as dumb as the Mayor of Peoria sending the police to arrest the author of Twitter satire.

    2. Sued Russel Norman? I don’t like Norman either, but unlike Craig I realise that dragging political arguments in to court is a bad idea.

    3. Believed in chemtrails, or any of the other whacked out conspiracy theories that Craig either believes, or apparently hasn’t researched to the extent that re recognises them to be whacked out conspiracy theories?

    4. Published the bizarre rooster-based campaign publicity material a few days ago? Because attacking John Key at the same time you’re practically begging John Key to throw you a seat is stupid. Especially when National are polling around 50% and the Conservatives are hovering around the margin of error.

    5. Predicted that (based on his own polls) he was going to win Rodney in 2011, and then come a distant second to the actual winner?

    6. Claimed that Helensville people had decided that John Key was “too gay” to be their MP?

    The man is a walking talking political failure. And, his own publicity material makes him look like a sex offender.

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  17. Griff (7,808 comments) says:

    Bed wetters dream would result in a mass uprising against any government that tried his loony fringe politics.
    I would be one of the first to start shooting .
    We are a socialist leaning country have been for almost a century.
    I would like a more right government but reds not so much right wing as the loony tunes extremes of authoritarian control freak.

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  18. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    Griff>We are a socialist leaning country have been for almost a century.

    I disagree with the “socialist” label. We’re a generally moderate country with a mixed economy and social welfare. We don’t like extremes of any kind. We generally muddle along, but don’t suffer from ideology run amok. Thank goodness… We’ve never been attracted by serious socialism, fascism, or any of the other extremist -ism ideologies or the type of leaders who espouse these ideologies. We’ve never had to suffer the consequences when these -ism ideologies spin out of control, as they have most places they’ve been tried.

    NZ is a “she’ll be right” country. And this has served us well since 1840.

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  19. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    Just for the record, in a survey conducted by some junk radio station or other MSM outlet, (can’t remember which) they stopped 30 people on the street in Brown’s Bay and only 8 of those 30 had heard of Colin Craig and his Conservative party.

    That’s two thirds of that electorate that don’t know about Conservative politics and the benefits they bring.

    The Conservative viewpoint isn’t out there because the gutless and convictionless JK refuses to articulate it. Its left to a few brave believers like Colin Craig to try and get the message out.

    No matter how confused he might be about that message, at least Craig deserves credit for having a go. Much more so than the Progressive JK, who given his description of the Conservatively founded Nat party as “Progressive” should really be leading the Labour Party.

    Imagine if the votes going to ACT and the Conservatives were all given to National instead? The lead would be so much greater.

    That won’t happen while the Nats are led by the convictionless left wing poseur JK.

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  20. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    John Key doesn’t want the few votes that will go to the Conservatives and Act. He is much more concerned about maintaining his hold over the centrist voters who so happily gave Labour three terms.

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  21. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    The Conservative viewpoint isn’t out there because the gutless and convictionless JK refuses to articulate it.

    Perhaps there needs to be some… kind… of… Conservative Party to articulate conservative viewpoints?

    Nah, it’s all John Key’s fault.

    The world is round, if you travel far enough right you’ll eventually reappear over the left horizon. C.F. “It’s all John key’s fault… John Key and his self interests…” the catch cry of the New Zealand left for almost a decade now.

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  22. tvb (4,430 comments) says:

    The country is in no mood for change. Labour has not got a credible narrative on how their Government will actually work. They will have to spend a lot of money to hold their unstable coalition together. That will risk pushing up interest rates further. I think people get that. Hence national polling well. And people like and trust John Key. They are not sure about Cunliffe.

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  23. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “In which term do you think he will be emboldened to make any changes to what he inherited from Clark?”

    Note the silence from the screaming FW Big Bigot, who is always throwing tantrums because his own idiot falsely premised questions are ignored.

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  24. Wayne Mapp (67 comments) says:

    I think I will trust John Key’s assessment of what works politically rather than Redbaiter’s or Manolo’s.

    And if Colin Craig gets to Parliament he will be in no position to push John Key around, especially if it is on the basis of a grace and favour deal.

    So if the Nats get back in, expect more of what has worked over the last 5 1/2 years. Moderate reform that moves NZ along. It might not be big and flashy, but it adds up over time.

    Over the last 5 1/2 years, reduced tax rates, reform of RMA, 90 day trials, infrastructure progress, Auckland city, keeping govt expenditure under control (now only 30% of GDP), back in surplus, increased spending on science and innovation, moderate welfare reform, national standards, charter schools, treaty settlements, restoring good relations with the US. And of course dealing with the earthquake. It all adds up. Contrast the difference with Tony Abbott and his big bang approach. And ask yourself, which works better?

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  25. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “John Key doesn’t want the few votes that will go to the Conservatives and Act.”

    Naaah, what politician would give a damn about 85000 votes? (last election)

    FFS.. the left…

    To think we have to descend to argue with these imbeciles.

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  26. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “I think I will trust John Key’s assessment of what works politically”

    That’s why people like you have to leave National and go join Labour. The future of NZ depends upon returning the National Party to its founding principles. It won’t happen while its infested with Progs.

    Just like the RINOS have to be kicked out of the Republicans, so must the NINOs be banished from National.

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  27. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “I still don’t think colon grag is the man who will truly represent the views of Conservatives”

    I agree with Griff (no, that didin’t hurt ;) )

    I would be happy to see another Right party in Parliament, and happy for it too be the CP, but the CP is far too conservative-lite to be a serious vehicle for social conservatism over the long run, and some of their policies, such as binding referendum are, imo, the opposite of what I would call Conservative.

    Still, as I keep banging on about, no matter what the polls say the likelihood of National being able to govern alone is slim, and even if it does it will still need to cultivate allies for the future. ACT may be able to dig itself out of the mess it’s in, but National would be foolish to rely on ACT alone.

    The good news in this poll is that the Left is eating itself. The rise of IMP as a hard left vehicle was never going to expand the Left bloc, but simply transfer votes from Labour and the Greens to IMP, and that is exactly what is happening.

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  28. Sector 7g (242 comments) says:

    ‘Key needs three to four terms to entrench his policy so that the next Labour government would not dream of making changes.’

    Problem with Key following Helen Clark’s lead is that the next generational of voters now believe john keys policies are extremely conservative and far right.

    Congratulations on moving New Zealand’s political compass further left. Can’t wait to see what it’s like in 12 years.

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  29. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    The voters to the right of National are effectively already locked up. When they get their miniscule representation in parliament, who will they support?

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  30. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    Sector 7g:
    Problem with Key following Helen Clark’s lead is that the next generational of voters now believe john keys policies are extremely conservative and far right.

    That’s overly pessimistic – don’t forget that children grow up. A fair few of my friends were left in their 20s, and are now National voters in their 30s.

    Some portion of the next generation of voters may well remain far left, but then you get that, we’ve always had that, that’s not something new.

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  31. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    Look- for those here who are obviously too stupid to grasp the issue, the left’s plan is to ensure Conservatism is not talked about. They know the anti-tyrannical foundation of Conservatism is the biggest threat to their current ascendancy so to them it is so important that Conservatism is JUST NOT TALKED ABOUT.

    Get it?

    The left don’t want Conservative ideas out there. They don’t want them talked about.

    So consequently their mission is to rubbish and ridicule anyone who dares speak those ideas. The strategy is plainly to exclude those ideas from the debate.

    This is why the left promote the false argument that Key and the Nats have to appeal to the middle by continuing with left wing policies. They are desperate that those middle voters don’t hear Conservative policies. For they know if Key had the brains and the ability to articulate a good Conservative viewpoint, then the middle would vote for it. Without a doubt. As they did under Reagan and Thatcher.

    So that’s why you have the massive campaign to discredit Colin Craig. An offensive that is being carried out on all fronts and even by the PM. Because the Nats are sucked in the same as every other person is who gives credibility to the left and their transparent propaganda.

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  32. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    National has never really been a Traditionalist Conservative party, it has always been a small-c conservative party, a very different kettle of fish, so I’m not sure exactly what Redbaiter is on about when he talks about founding principles.

    Of course these terms depend a great deal on subjective interpretation. “Progressive” does not mean anything in NZ, it’s an American term for Socialism, but I don’t see that National seriously fits that description. Of course I suspect Red has a different take on what is Conservative than myself.

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  33. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    But Russell, that’s where you and your 20 year plan come in.

    As you’ve pointed out previously, the 10 year duration phase one turned the tide and look at the stunning inroads you’ve made in the first couple of years of phase two. Your message is really getting out there. Add to that the conservative tidal wave that you are forecasting to surge over the horizon and I can’t see what you’re so concerned about. The people are flocking to the cause in droves, so you’re right, no need to waste time with Key’s cautious approach. Changing voters’ attitudes over time? FFS, what a sook. Instead, shove it up them and watch the electorate swoon with delight!

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  34. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “Problem with Key following Helen Clark’s lead is that the next generational of voters now believe john keys policies are extremely conservative and far right.”

    I was a card carrying member of Jim Anderton’s New Labour when I was young. People grow up. Some will grow Left, some Right, and some will switch back and forth over the years.

    Trying to predict anything based on generalizations about “youth” is largely pointless.

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  35. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘To think we have to descend to argue with these imbeciles.’
    Here’s a thought. How about arguing with the visitors to your own site instead?

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  36. Griff (7,808 comments) says:

    Colon Crag is his own campaign to discredit the conservative brand.
    chem trails
    moon landing hoax
    All a little looney tunes
    Seen his stance on abortion ? or any of the ideas you champion..
    FFS red all you see is the conservative in the party name
    Most of the rest of us see a particularly thick bewildered wingnut who is about as much conservative leaning as his adds chickens.

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  37. Sector 7g (242 comments) says:

    “A fair few of my friends were left in their 20s, and are now National voters in their 30s.”

    So haven’t really moved politically then.

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  38. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    To think we have to descend to argue with these imbeciles.

    Oh, please don’t feel that you HAVE to… ;-)

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  39. Wayne Mapp (67 comments) says:

    Redbaiter,

    New Zealand is not the US. There is no Tea Party in National. So I am very safe in National, which in any event has moderate conservatism deep in its DNA. In effect you are asking for pretty much the entire National Cabinet to be moved on. Well, fat chance.

    There is a party for you (I think) and it is ACT. But maybe they are not conservative enough for you.

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  40. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “There is a party for you (I think) and it is ACT. But maybe they are not conservative enough for you.”

    Red sounds like a Marxist with his obsession with ideological purity and calls for purges, a sure recipe for permanent powerlessness. I think he defines things in such a narrow way that it becomes farcical. Nobody would seriously call Bill English “progressive.”

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  41. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    Griff>Most of the rest of us see a particularly thick bewildered wingnut

    Yep. And remember that he is opposed to asset sales. Essentially he is a populist who has decided that his particular mix of populism is smacking children, wanting to get involved in people’s sex lives, and opposing privatisation. That particular mix is polling about 1.5%, so go figure.

    MMP has created a situation where people who are unable to compromise with others are able to set up their own political parties and promote themselves as some sort of political messiah. Anderton. Peters. Dotcom. Harawira. And Craig all fit in to this category. They could work with like-minded people inside an existing party. But they have no ability to convince other people to follow them, and lack the ability to compromise and work with others. For these people it is “their way or the highway”, except in all cases their way has meant a tiny number of like-minded misfits. That is their right of course. But that doesn’t change the fact that these political messiahs are dysfunctional people who lack the personality traits that most adults have that allow them to work with other people.

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  42. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “There is a party for you (I think) and it is ACT. But maybe they are not conservative enough for you.”

    You see Wayne, you’ve just provided an example of what I am talking about when I say most people have no clue what Conservative ideas are because they’ve been so thoroughly immersed in the slowly warming pot of Progressivism they’ve never come across them. The left have succeeded wonderfully in keeping the one set of ideas that would cripple them out of the political equation.

    Hence the abject ignorance that characterizes most of the comments above that object to Conservatism.

    Hence you Wayne suggesting a party that markets itself as a “liberal” party should be the home for Conservatives. Just no idea.

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  43. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Just leaves you with Colin Craig then, doesn’t it Reddy, opposing asset sales and wanting to belt kids?

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  44. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “Nobody would seriously call Bill English “progressive.””

    John Key did dimbulb. Like Davidp you need to shake off a tonne of ignorance before you attempt to seriously engage on this issue.

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  45. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    ShawnLH

    Russell’s ultimate stumbling block is called democracy. Unfortunately for him, he doesn’t possess the intellectual or emotional intelligence to approach that stumbling block other than by ranting the same weary rhetoric in the most offensive manner possible. And so he is confined to his own little echo chamber surrounded by a handful of equally hypocritical blusterers and ranters, where he will achieve precisely nothing, other than provide a rich source of amusement for others. Every once in a while, he seizes upon some new prophet (currently Craig) and then the music stops and he is left alone and abandoned on the political dance floor wondering where next he might seek inspiration and validation. He is so poorly equipped emotionally that he cannot seem to recognise that shouting at people to behave differently will not achieve anything other to close ears of the objects of his ranting to whatever message he is trying to articulate.

    Most recently, the nearest equivalent to our dear old reddy can be seen on twitter in the form of the former weatherboi and now political aspirant Coffey. He too is happily spewing his little message of bile, hate and all around bitchiness and seems, like reddy, very pleased with himself. What neither of these idiots realise is that such behaviour only reinforces any predisposition against whatever it is that they stand for. In reddy’s case it is an end to democracy and a totalitarian state run in accordance with his view on life, and in Coffey’s, it seems little more than having the freedom to behave like a bitch in public and get paid for it.

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  46. ROJ (121 comments) says:

    By RB’s logic the Greens are Conservative bacause they don’t want any development. The contra to National wanting Progress (aka growth).

    Be what you mean, not dance on a pinhead about words

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  47. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “what I am talking about when I say most people have no clue what Conservative ideas are”

    Do you?

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  48. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    TDVM’s communist pathology is the reason the National Party is so directionless. Like many of his MSM sourced comrades, he needs to pack his bags and fuck off to Labour, which from his spiteful and pointless rhetoric is obviously where his real home is.

    Attempting to ridicule someone with an opposing point of view is straight out of the Communist playbook, and TDVM is clearly a subconscious advocate of that strategy. A piffling desperate little hate merchant whose writing is cliched and empty, but simultaneously drips with self importance, he belongs with Bomber and his crowd and not anywhere near any party that was founded on Conservative principles by an orator with intelligence and class like Sidney Holland.

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  49. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Of course Reddy would never attempt to ridicule someone with an opposing point of view, coz that would be ‘straight out of the Communist playbook’.

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  50. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Sidney Holland. LOL. Holland was just the first of many National PMs to preside over the accomplishments of his Labour predecessors.

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  51. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “Of course Reddy would never attempt to ridicule someone with an opposing point of view,”

    You profess to be a reasonable person Milky. Look through TDVM’s 3:59 effort and highlight the opposing argument to the view that the Nats are too far left.

    Like almost everything he writes here, its completely devoid of any meaningful information or opinion. Its just another cowardly smear, and what is worse, that is all it is meant to be.

    Like every other spineless Progressive, he trembles at the thought that Conservative ideas may become popular if people are permitted to articulate them.

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  52. Griff (7,808 comments) says:

    Ridicule takes wit and by extension intelligence.
    redblather only comes armed with cheap cookie cutter insults.
    Although such insults can be effective if part of the full armory they are ultimately pointless as a stand alone weapon.

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  53. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yes, Griff, Reddy comes up with some clichéd insults, but lacks any genuine sense of humour. Might be allied to his inability to appreciate the artistry of the photos here.

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  54. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “Attempting to ridicule someone with an opposing point of view is straight out of the Communist playbook,”

    Ummm…you do that all the time, in fact in pretty much every post. We all have a go at each other on KB, that’s just the nature of faceless political blogs, but you really cannot pretend to be innocent on that score Red.

    TDVM note had a go at Coffey as well, he hardly sounds like a lefty. Do you assume that everyone who disagrees with you is on the Left?

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  55. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Everyone apart from Reddy is on the left.

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  56. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    Well the reality is that National, or any party, cannot govern without capturing the center. JK understands that, which does not make him a lefty, it makes him smart.

    I would love for National to be more genuinely a Traditionalist Conservative party, or have a TC wing that can generate ideas and have an influence. But not if it means just handing the country over to Labour and the Greens permanently.

    And we get back to the question of who’s definition of Conservative are we talking about? Red seems to think there is only one. Anyone actually familiar with Conservatism knows that is not and never has been the case.

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  57. Griff (7,808 comments) says:

    There is the sycophantic cohort as witness by (shudder) a visit to true blue NZ mike.
    I have done my duty to the kb commentariat and braved the festering swamp of truly conservative circle jerking once this year already to give an update on El Guavas output perhaps you could visit and give us a update on the number and quality of comments on NZ’s premium conservative blog.

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  58. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    mikenmild

    Sorry for the delay in my reply, work had a habit of getting in the way. Not all of us can lay around sheltered accommodation all day dreaming of Sarah Palin.

    Now, you asked me “In which term do you think he will be emboldened to make any changes to what he inherited from Clark?”

    Perhaps you have had your eyes and ears closed for the past six years but Key has been gnawing at the biggest problem facing NZ namely welfare dependency. Again it is surprising that I have to point this out, had Key gone on a full frontal attack against the bludgers and parasites (which is what I would have loved him to do) he would have been a one term PM, welfare bludging would be back to the heights of the last Labour government (remember how they shifted the long term losers onto the sickness benefit with no obligation to even look for work)

    Paula Bennett and Key know they have to do this in small steps, I am happy to say it is working. There is a lot less sympathy out there for long term bludgers than there was under Labour. Nine years of Labour gave us all the mindset that Labour wanted us to have which was “oh well, there is nothing we can do about these parasites”

    The Nat’s have attacked the problem, AGAIN I stress that I would have liked more to have been done but that is why neither you or I are PM, Key knows that it cannot be done in one big bang, it is going to take time to educate Kiwis, time to change their mindset and time to entrench these changes so that no Labour government will dare change them back.

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  59. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    grief

    I admire your fortitude but by all accounts, it’s dirty work – like going to the liebour hatefest site – and completely pointless for all the reasons that El Guava and the weatherboi are pointless.

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  60. Griff (7,808 comments) says:

    May be about time for someone to post the redbaiter comment generator again and see if we can add any new insults to the list

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  61. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    Its just another cowardly smear, and what is worse, that is all it is meant to be.

    Oh gawd.

    Why do you insist on making it so easy Russell?

    he trembles at the thought

    Oo errr … too many 50 cent “romance” novels russ?

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  62. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “The Nat’s have attacked the problem,”

    Complete and utter bullshit. Even taking out the Christchurch earthquake the Nats are taxing and spending more than Helen Klark ever did.

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  63. bringbackdemocracy (427 comments) says:

    This poll again highlights National’s problem.
    Who will it’s coalition partners be?
    The current ones have the same level of support as the Conservatives. When you add them all together.

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  64. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I’d be interest in what you think the present government has actually done to address the problem of welfare dependency.

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  65. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    Even taking out the Christchurch earthquake the Nats are taxing and spending more than Helen Klark ever did.

    BS.

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  66. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    bringbackdemocracy
    Don’t worry, Winston will come to the rescue.

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  67. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “but lacks any genuine sense of humour.”

    Merely that I don’t find TDVM’s childlike attempts at wit to be unamusing Milky is no sign that I lack a sense of humour.

    His desperate unimaginative smears might appeal to a certain braindead sector of the chattering classes but they’re regarded as pretty bottom shelf by anyone with any real taste and discernment.

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  68. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Tell us a joke, Reddy?

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  69. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    Sorry Milky, cast enough pearls to swine for today.

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  70. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    His desperate unimaginative smears

    You really aren’t all there are you russ? You will be the only person who reads that who can’t see the ball-wrenching gob-smacking hypocrisy in that pompous and delusional bluster.

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  71. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    cast enough pearls to swine for today

    Pfft. The only “pearls” you’ve “cast” today have landed on your keyboard you silly old duffer.

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  72. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    “Complete and utter bullshit.”

    Clearly you are unable to stay on topic Bedwetter. I mentioned Welfare bludging, I said nothing about Christchurch yet somehow you manage to meld the two into another of your incoherent rants.

    What you want Bedwetter is nothing short of a hard right, religious driven dictatorship. Had Key been stupid enough to follow your advice Klark would have by now declared herself President for life.

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  73. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “Pfft. The only “pearls” you’ve “cast” today have landed on your keyboard you silly old duffer.”

    Keep it up FW. If Nat party traitors like you weren’t trying so hard I might start thinking I was having zero effect on public perceptions.

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  74. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘I might start thinking I was having zero effect on public perceptions.’
    Oh, you have an effect all right.

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  75. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “What you want Bedwetter is nothing short of a hard right, religious driven dictatorship.”

    Nah, I think Red’s probably closer to a kind of conservative libertarianism (fusionism in US terms) rather than a dictatorship.

    I think his problem is more that he does not understand the way in which elections are won. I would probably agree with much of what Red wants, I just don’t think you can get there without taking the center ground with you, and that means taking baby steps and working for results than are achievable and sustainable.

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  76. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “I just don’t think you can get there without taking the center ground with you,”

    FFS, what is it with you dense people?

    Are you really so dumb not to see that you will not drag the middle out of their left wing stupefaction if you don’t show them an alternative path forward.

    That is the fucking problem.

    JK and the Nats speak the same Progressive shit as the Labour party. Why would the public vote for any new ideas when the two parties monopolising the vote are talking the same socialist shit?

    ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    Jezuz on a bike.

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  77. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    GET ELECTED Baiter.

    If everyone involved with National (or indeed, all politics to the right of labour) is doing it wrong, show us that you’re right and not just a lot of piss and wind.

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  78. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “Are you really so dumb not to see that you will not drag the middle out of their left wing stupefaction if you don’t show them an alternative path forward.”

    Who says they have not seen an alternative? You seem to think there is a conspiracy to keep Conservatism a secret. but that is not the case. Both ACT and the CP offer alternatives, and people are very much aware of both parties. And both parties barely make 4% in the polls. That is not because people have not seen the alternative, it is because they are not ready or willing for radical change. Ironically this is in part because many people in the center are naturally conservative, often have families, and thus children to feed, and are thus wary of any kind of radical politics, left or right. Yes, you can shift the center to the Right, but that takes time, and it means taking those people with you, not scaring the shit out of them.

    “Why would the public vote for any new ideas when the two parties monopolising the vote are talking the same socialist shit?”

    Because their not. National is not promoting socialism, at all. It is promoting a very weak tea form of small-c conservatism, but it’s not socialism. Socialists do not sell state assets, even partially, or lower corporate taxes, engage in welfare reform by making it harder to stay on and easier to get off, pass the three strikes law, or start charter schools. Now while some of that was the influence of ACT, they are still coalition policies that are anything but socialist.

    To claim that this gov is no different to Labour is just plain, flat out, wrong.

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  79. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “And people are very much aware of both parties.”

    Crap. Read above moron, I’m not going to keep repeating myself for the sake of idiots who don’t only know nothing but can’t read either.

    As for the rest of it, look at the budget.

    Now FO. I’m tired of trying to feed information to wall eyed dipshits.

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  80. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    Out of interest, can I block a user on here so I don’t have to wade through their posts ?

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  81. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    Yes, use Firefox and RIP.

    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/remove-it-permanently/

    Now follow the instructions and stop cluttering threads with inane off topic questions that could have easily been answered if you’d had the small amount of brains needed to enable you to use Google.

    Pissant.

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  82. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “Crap. Read above moron, I’m not going to keep repeating myself for the sake of idiots who don’t only know nothing but can’t read either.”

    Keep your insults to yourself boy. Unlike you I am not a pretender. Your likely a middle class Kiwi, and you can pretend to be a hardcore US style conservative till the cows come home but it doesn’t mean shit to me. I was born in the US, my family is from Southern Appalachia, that’s serious redneck country, and are hardcore Baptist conservatives. And I grew up in the US military as my dad was a twenty year navy man. And unlike you I am actually a conservative Christian. Some Kiwi pretender on a blog has not earned the right to say boo to me.

    “As for the rest of it, look at the budget.”

    That would be the one heralding future tax cuts and a balanced budget?

    “Now FO.”

    No.

    “I’m tired of trying to feed information to wall eyed dipshits.”

    Run away then.

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  83. SJM (77 comments) says:

    59 Responses to “Latest poll”
    Redbaiter (7,029 comments) says:
    June 17th, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    Shame is, if the National Party hadn’t capitulated to Progressivism, and instead worked hard to draw NZ in the opposite direction by swaying them to the cause of small govt and reduced taxes, then a large part of the country would not be in the thrall of mindless leftists who are blind to the damage they have done in every other country where they have convinced the people to listen to them.

    Whereas National are undeniably popular, they are still little more than Helen Klark’s govt in drag, and the election is by no means a fait accompli for Key and his boys (and girls).

    Six years of good Conservative rhetoric would have consigned the far/ extreme left to the dustbins of history they belong in, but it hasn’t happened so we’re still unfortunately facing the potential threat of government by loons.

    —————-

    Red, your methodology is just like Brit Labour in the early 80’s and just like them you wont get anywhere and for exactly the same reasons.

    People have voted for Nationals policies and performance to date, they have not voted for what you call ‘good Conservative rhetoric’. To argue that that National should adopt your policy prescriptions makes about as much sense as NZ Labour trumpeting the communist manifesto, no one would take a party seriously for saying “six years of good communist rhetoric would consign the right to the dust bin of history” they sure wont make them the government.
    Brit labour found this to its cost, pushing unpopular and failed, but ideologically pure, policy kept them out of government and therefore unable to change anything.

    National is not following your ideologically pure advice, despite knowing of it, for very good reason:they prefer to follow Whitlam’s sage and practical advice “The impotent are always pure”, and National are the government as a result

    You, Red, are as pure as the driven snow.

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  84. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    “If everyone involved with National (or indeed, all politics to the right of labour) is doing it wrong, show us that you’re right and not just a lot of piss and wind.”

    He just wont engage and tell us RRM, because he cant pure and simple !~

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  85. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    Now follow the instructions and stop cluttering threads with inane off topic questions that could have easily been answered if you’d had the small amount of brains needed to enable you to use Google.

    Pissant.

    Ah, of course, the Conservative message as articulated by M. ‘baiter. It appears to have lost something in the translation.

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  86. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    tvb – “The country is in no mood for change. Labour has not got a credible narrative on how their Government will actually work. They will have to spend a lot of money to hold their unstable coalition together. ”

    Except, according to these polls, 49% of the voting population are ready to spin the chamber, pull the trigger and see what happens.

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  87. georgebolwing (869 comments) says:

    If his were the 1820’s, when mass communication didn’t exist, then there might be something in Red’s view that the “Vast Progressive Conspiracy” was keeping conservatism a secret.

    I would suggest that the opposite is true: people have a very good understanding of the narrow, dictatorial rubbish that Red and his very small band fellow-travellers are promoting and are voting with their feet.

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  88. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    davidp – “NZ is a “she’ll be right” country. And this has served us well since 1840.”

    I suspect far too many people do have this approach. Lets vote Internet-Mana, Green and Labour-Cunliffe. She’ll be right!

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  89. wiseowl (899 comments) says:

    While the ChCh earthquake has been a major for the economy all those praising Nationals efforts would do well to read Eaqub’s comments today re the OCR.

    Really telling is his comment that if it wasn’t for China NZ would be going backwards.
    So much has hinged on the success of the dairy industry and National has benefited immensely from this.

    Otherwise their progressive policys would be subject to more scrutiny and they would not be 50% in the polls.

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  90. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    We need a moderately tax and spend government so our regiments of M60-wielding warriors can hold off the dreaded hand-wringing communists :)

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  91. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    “Some Kiwi pretender on a blog has not earned the right to say boo to me.”

    I’m not impressed by all that historical BS.

    On here you stand by what you write. That’s all that matters, and if you write shit that just is not correct I or someone else wil pull you up on it. The fact is you were dead wrong when you said the Conservative Party was well known. Read above about the Brown’s Bay survey as I said. Which if you were paying attention to the discussion you should have read.

    ‘That would be the one heralding future tax cuts and a balanced budget?’

    Yeah, that’s what these Prog losers said before they were elected. Self serving projections are as easy as falling off a log.

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  92. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    You are fucking deluded if you think the Conservative Party will get any better known. Most voters don’t give a shit. Might as well fantasise about the 800,000 non-voters getting out to suppport Colin.

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  93. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    I’ll point out what is really telling about this discussion, and that is that many on Kiwiblog are completely at sea in dealing with criticism of National from the right.

    What does that tell you?

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  94. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    That they are happy that John Key has maitained the gains of the Helen Clark years?

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  95. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    Russell, you really are a pompous vacuous and fraudulent old windbag.

    You’ve spent the last week venting your spleen, gratuitously abusing and insulting all and sundry, as you do, and then when confronted with your own bluster and bullshit and re-grouping after yet another strategic and tactical fail in your quest to spread your message, whatever the fuck it actually is, you rejoin with faux equanimity with the laughable inference that your shit that you were so enthusiastically smearing all over the walls was nothing more than “criticism of National from the right”.

    Please don’t ever change.

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  96. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    Blah blah blah

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  97. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    Yes, you appear to have neatly encapsulated my point.

    [edit: I gave you an uptick for grasping my point - to save you the trouble of logging in to your proxy server :) ]

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  98. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    There was no point.

    It was just the usual pretentious juvenile boring bluster that amuses the sycophantic low IQ dipshits here like Stigie and Four Ticks Grief.

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  99. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    You are just too good TDVM, the one above is the start of the MELTDOWN !!

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  100. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    In stark contrast to your own highbrow efforts no doubt, redblahblurgh?

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  101. thedavincimode (6,800 comments) says:

    Nothing to do with me stigie. The silly old dear is a dysfunctional loon and his meltdown started a few days ago and without any provocation at all – all his own work. Like the arsehole peters, he appears to be on a downwards mental trajectory.

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  102. Griff (7,808 comments) says:

    Redblather
    Actually i don’t bother to down tick you even once. tick wanking is one of your fetishes as is lying and cowardly attacks from your anonymity.
    You are as funny as a gay at a wife swapping evening with your total incapability to engage in meaningful debate.
    After reading you spurts of incontinence for years now I still have absolutely no idea what you actually stand for
    I have seen you claim you stand for freedom but that cannot be right as you are the most authoritarian poster on kb.
    you claim to be a conservative but what the fuck does that actually mean besides a fear of change? I just right you off as a Very confused scared powerless old idiot with a passionate hate for everyone who has some control over their lives and at best the biggest laugh on KB.

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  103. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    One day, his neighbours will tell television reporters, “He seemed a nice, quiet bloke. Always kept himself to himself.” :)

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  104. RossM (45 comments) says:

    The report stated “This morning’s Herald-DigiPoll survey showing the Internet Mana Party would get two seats in Parliament means the electoral alliance has made it to “first base”

    First Base? As far as I can see, Laila and Dotcom have already reached home plate.

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  105. SJM (77 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (7,041 comments) says:
    June 17th, 2014 at 7:02 pm
    I’ll point out what is really telling about this discussion, and that is that many on Kiwiblog are completely at sea in dealing with criticism of National from the right.

    What does that tell you?
    ____________________________

    That the John Key led National party forms the Government and your mates in the conservative party have no seats in parliament. What does that tell you about who is at sea or not?

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  106. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    Shawnlh

    ““What you want Bedwetter is nothing short of a hard right, religious driven dictatorship.”

    Nah, I think Red’s probably closer to a kind of conservative libertarianism (fusionism in US terms) rather than a dictatorship.”

    I don’t know about that Shawn, I suspect that both of you want a society that is ruled by the bible.

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  107. wiseowl (899 comments) says:

    SJM
    Marilyn Waring made a very interesting comment on Sunday having sat next to the President of the National Party on a flight and not recognised.

    She extracted from him the fact that if you do not parrot the party line you do not become a candidate.Extrapolate from that that no National MP can speak up for his electorate or question the party /cabinet line then you can see what a mesmerised lot we have.
    Hence immune to challenge or criticism.

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  108. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    If anyone ever got around to reading the rubbish, Baity actually does tell us what he wants NZ to change into. A Godfearing version of Singapore complete with an unchangeable single party totalitarian government.

    It has to be an effective dictatorship because true democracy would enable true freedom amongst the electorate & see the lamp posts decorated with the former bully boys.

    Conservatism is dead so long as universal suffrage holds.

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  109. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    God you’re pathetic Narsekissa. Every time. You come on here with the same braindead crap as Big Bigot- building a big heap of strawmen and then attacking them and expecting Conservatives to defend those strawmen against your delusional and unbelievably ignorant POV.

    Completely clueless, and you come across (again like Big Bigot) as an insane obsessive who will always be building your strawmen no matter what contrary information you are given.

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  110. dad4justice (8,238 comments) says:

    Well said red, big bigot and narsekissa must be in the same locked mental health ward.

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  111. Griff (7,808 comments) says:

    D4J signed up member of the sycophantic cohort :lol:
    The quality and the quantity is lacking redtard.
    you would struggle to beat blank

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  112. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Didnt think it would long before he gave you a serve Nasska.

    Feel delighted and honoured Nasska, everyone else has had a serve today !~

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  113. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Coproconservatism at its finest stigie. :)

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  114. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    Conservophagia….

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  115. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Originating from a Conservidouche cha. :)

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  116. Griff (7,808 comments) says:

    conservophygy folie à deux

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  117. SJM (77 comments) says:

    wiseowl (669 comments) says:
    June 17th, 2014 at 8:18 pm
    SJM
    Marilyn Waring made a very interesting comment on Sunday having sat next to the President of the National Party on a flight and not recognised.

    She extracted from him the fact that if you do not parrot the party line you do not become a candidate.Extrapolate from that that no National MP can speak up for his electorate or question the party /cabinet line then you can see what a mesmerised lot we have.
    Hence immune to challenge or criticism.
    ________________________________________________

    Is that a reflection on the National party though, or the nature of the political system? If we elect a group of people on a particular platform and with a known set of working principles, should we not expect them to adhere to that, if its what we voted for? I think you can make a very good argument for holding them to account for their actions via recall mechanisms.

    I think that if we want MP’s to act in a differant way, then we must then look at changing elements of the existing political system or the entire system. We could, for example have a recall system for electorate MP’s who fail in their duty to their electorate, and I am sure we could do something similar for list MP’s, we could also look at limitation of government roles and devolution of power, which I think is not a bad thing so long as its done properly.

    I do think that its essential that the public pass budgets and have a a right of veto over legislation, especially anything that touches upon constional matters, as governments/Prime Ministers are far too powerful to be acceptable. How we got into a flag change debate is a case in point, no PM should have the power to initiate such a debate, thats something the public should decide for themselves. But

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  118. SJM (77 comments) says:

    SJM (65 comments) says:
    June 17th, 2014 at 10:54 pm
    wiseowl (669 comments) says:
    June 17th, 2014 at 8:18 pm
    SJM
    _________________

    Further to the above:

    In our political history serious change, as opposed to letting a few more in on the public supplied loot, comes from without the system not from within.
    If we want our MPs to be something other than lobby fodder, it realy is up to the public, as no one in power is going to sacrifice power.

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  119. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    I like this newcomer though, he shows promise. This idea that there’s a pecking order / pissing contest among conservatives is a good one, I hope we see more of it. :-)

    Keep your insults to yourself boy. Unlike you I am not a pretender. Your likely a middle class Kiwi, and you can pretend to be a hardcore US style conservative till the cows come home but it doesn’t mean shit to me. I was born in the US, my family is from Southern Appalachia, that’s serious redneck country, and are hardcore Baptist conservatives. And I grew up in the US military as my dad was a twenty year navy man. And unlike you I am actually a conservative Christian. Some Kiwi pretender on a blog has not earned the right to say boo to me.

    The inflated sense of self-worth is there.
    The sneering condescending tone is there.
    The gun fetish is there.
    The Gawd Bless Uh-MER-i-CUH is there.
    The blindness to the irony of it all is CERTAINLY there.

    I will be watching his career with interest..

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