The intolerance with dissent on US campuses

June 13th, 2014 at 2:00 pm by David Farrar

Joel Kotkin writes:

In ways not seen since at least the McCarthy era, Americans are finding themselves increasingly constrained by a rising class—what I call the progressive Clerisy—that accepts no dissent from its basic tenets. Like the First Estate in pre-revolutionary France, the Clerisy increasingly exercises its power to constrain dissenting views, whether on politics, social attitudes or science.

As the modern clerisy has seen its own power grow, even while the middle class shrinks, it has used its influence to enforce a prescribed set of acceptable ideas. On everything from gender and sexual preference to climate change, those who dissent from the official pieties risk punishment.

This power has been seen recently in a host of cancellations of commencement speakers. Just in the past few months Ayaan Hirsi Ali, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, International Monetary Fund managing director Christine Lagarde, and former UC Berkeley Chancellor Robert Birgeneau, have been prevented from speaking by campus virtue squads whose sensibilities they had offended.

Normally a top achieving African-American woman or a Somali born feminist would be welcomed on campuses. But they are not left wingers, so they get blocked.

The spate of recent cancellation reflect an increasingly overbearing academic culture that promotes speech codes on what is permissible to say and even seeks to provide “trigger warnings” to warn students about the presence of nominally troubling subject matter in readings and discussions so they can avoid the elements of reality they find offensive. 

Universities were once bastions of freedom of speech, which includes a freedom to offend.

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62 Responses to “The intolerance with dissent on US campuses”

  1. mandk (875 comments) says:

    This is brilliant.
    The irony is that the Clerisy like to regard themselves as being liberal-minded. They’re not: they are nazis.
    And we’ve got plenty of them here in NZ, more’s the pity.

    And don’t you dare judge me, or take an opposing view ;-)

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  2. kowtow (7,921 comments) says:

    Interesting that the pre revolutionary French are targeted. This is more akin to revolutionary terror.

    Ezra Levant on the same thing happening in “tolerant” BC Canada. The target is Christians.Strange times.

    http://www.ezralevant.com/the-real-bigots/

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  3. OneTrack (2,794 comments) says:

    Just when you think the human race have come so far, and then , bang, we are back in the 1600′s with the elites knowing “the one truth” and any heresy must be suppressed, simply because it conflicts with their ideology. How long before the “witch” ( aka climate-change denier) burnings start? 10:10

    And these wallys call themselves “progressives”. Bastardisation of the word, if ever there was one.

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  4. redqueen (518 comments) says:

    ‘All this has happened before and all this will happen again.’

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  5. Redbaiter (8,000 comments) says:

    “And we’ve got plenty of them here in NZ, more’s the pity.”

    They’re neo-Bolsheviks and if they’re not stopped it will lead to the same old violence and bloodshed.

    Peddling hate and intolerance as a precursor to collective action against those they disagree with, usually backed by big govt and all the force of the corrupt communist state.

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  6. Graeme Edgeler (3,274 comments) says:

    Universities were once bastions of freedom of speech, which includes a freedom to offend.

    Evidence, please. Not saying things weren’t better in the past, but I’m not sure I’d go so far as “bastions”. I suspect there have always been issues, just around different things.

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  7. Danyl Mclauchlan (1,066 comments) says:

    Evidence, please. Not saying things weren’t better in the past, but I’m not sure I’d go so far as “bastions”. I suspect there have always been issues, just around different things.

    Back in the good ol’ days when woman, jews and blacks weren’t admitted the universities were havens for freedom and enlightenment.

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  8. Redbaiter (8,000 comments) says:

    Education is a good idea but there’s no advantage in every moron having a degree.

    Especially when the path to that degree has as a priority a compulsory deep immersion in Progressive/ Cultural Marxist delusions.

    At the expense of real ideas.

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  9. Dead Earnest (140 comments) says:

    Its a bit like the Animal Farm. The Hippy anarchists of the 60s an 70s are now Professors and Chancelors. The lunatics have taken over the asylum and are proving more intransignent than their conservative predecessors

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  10. flipper (3,824 comments) says:

    GE is being pedantic yet again.

    The generalisation by DPF is true, world over.

    A good UK friend continually bemoans the rise of thought Nazis at Oxford – once the love of his life, where science has been prostituted for Government “research grants”,….. so much do that he no longer responds to the Chancellor’s appeals ….. and has told him why!

    This thought police issue was recently raised in respect of Harvard.
    I forget the name of the courageous individual, but he/she certainly raised eyebrows. Someone may recall.

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  11. JamesBlake (62 comments) says:

    I wonder how many people read the link in the orignal story that pointed out that other than the Muslim femanist (I can’t wait to see people here expouse her right to speak aftyer seeing the thread the other day arguing that they shouldn’t even be alowed in the country) the others all withdrew themselves. This was after the administrators refused to not allow students to protest against them.

    So in reality right wing comencement speakers didn’t want to face people who disagreed with them. When administrators refused to hinder the students rights to speach and protest they withdrew. Somehow this got spun so that it seems like their right to speach was some how impinged.

    Complete oposite of what you said hey DPF.

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  12. flipper (3,824 comments) says:

    Reference to Harvard thought police above…it was Bloomberg.
    Try Google:

    Bloomberg Chastises Thought Police at Harvard … – Ricochet

    May 29, 2014 – In the 1950s, the right wing was attempting to repress left-wing ideas. Today, on many campuses, it is liberals trying to repress conservative ….

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  13. kowtow (7,921 comments) says:

    dead ernest

    You are so right .There was a controversy in Germany over the possibility that their Green foreign minister was picturesd attacking a policeman back in the 60′s student revolt days…….from revolutionary/anarchist street thug to federal gummint minister in 40 short years.

    Not to mention all our anti apartheid warriors of the 70s. Same thing.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/15/world/germany-s-foreign-minister-is-pursued-by-his-early-firebrand-self.html

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  14. RRM (9,638 comments) says:

    All I’ve been saying is that niggers and feminazis are ruining the country, and people keep telling me to STFU and GTFO!

    It’s political correctness gone mad!

    It’s INTOLERANCE!

    It’s a LIBERAL CLERISY!

    Free speech! Free speech! (Freedom from consequences!)

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  15. Graeme Edgeler (3,274 comments) says:

    GE is being pedantic yet again.

    The generalisation by DPF is true, world over.

    The generalisation I was taking issue with was not that things are worse than in the past, I accept that is probably true. Rather I am taking issue with the claim that things were awesome in the past. I would welcome evidence of that.

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  16. Griff (6,989 comments) says:

    there’s no advantage in every moron having a degree.
    moron
    used to describe a person with a mental age in adulthood of between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale.[5] It was once applied to people with an IQ of 51–70, being superior in one degree to “imbecile” (IQ of 26–50) and superior in two degrees to “idiot” (IQ of 0–25).

    not much chance of an actual moron getting a degree red or even passing the higher levels of national standards by the very definition of the word.

    Just out of curiosity what is a progressive?
    Many seem to use the word for all those who are liberal.
    Strange thing to disparage on here this is a liberals blog.
    looking up the term I found two party’s in nz who have used the word.

    Progressive Green Party (New Zealand) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Green_Party_%28New_Zealand%29
    Jim Anderton’s Progressive Party http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Anderton%27s_Progressive_Party

    The usage in nz politics seems to be contradictory so maybe someone can define what it is that they are fighting against.

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  17. Redbaiter (8,000 comments) says:

    “I am taking issue with the claim that things were awesome in the past.”

    Where’s that claim exactly?

    “I would welcome evidence of that.”

    What would you accept / describe as “evidence”?

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  18. Don the Kiwi (1,646 comments) says:

    But there’s one thing that some of our commenters here will be pleased about.

    These people are all atheists.
    Forcing their views on others – not content with disagreeing, “YOU MUST CONFORM TO OUR WAY”

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  19. cha (3,843 comments) says:

    It’s political correctness gone mad!

    Nah, it’s the plague of wound collectors of all stripes.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201304/wound-collectors

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  20. Graeme Edgeler (3,274 comments) says:

    Where’s that claim exactly?

    In this quote: “Universities were once bastions of freedom of speech”

    What would you accept / describe as “evidence”?

    What are you and or DPF offering? Happy to start with that.

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  21. David Garrett (6,723 comments) says:

    Griff: are those supposed grades of IQ = “moron” “idiot” or “imbecile” true, or are you just having a bit of fun?

    I have a suspicion you may be right…the Laws of Tonga are replete with wonderful laws from the (Colonial) past….there is a section in their Land Act headed “Imbeciles not to inherit”…Presumably morons and idiots were able to …

    My all time favourite is contained within the wonderfully named “unnatural offences”

    Bestiality: Whoever shall be convicted of the abominable crime of sodomy… or of bestiality… shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment not exceeding ten years and such animal shall be killed by a public officer.

    As the joke went, not only did you go to jail for a long time, but your girlfriend got killed…

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  22. David Garrett (6,723 comments) says:

    But seriously…this phenomenon of left wing censorship in the Unis is not new…I graduated more than 20 years ago, and it was happening back then, particularly with regard to anything Maori…If you did not write essays lauding the early Maori as the greatest seafarers in the world; a people with a highly advanced and sophisticated culture, and playing down or ignoring the nasty bloody and brutish (but very inconvenient) aspects of pre Euro contact you were unlikely to get a decent grade…at least from some lecturers.

    At Canterbury we had a Pol Sci Prof who was the New Zealand representative of the PLO FFS…obviously you didn’t write any essays for him which put Zionism in a positive light..

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  23. Griff (6,989 comments) says:

    Direct cutnpaste from wikipedia DG
    the references style [#] gives it away hence I did not bother attributing.

    Me having fun poking fun at some views on here?
    never.

    The reason I use smiley often
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_Law
    Some of the crap posted by actual people who manage on a daily basis to not eat them self is kinda funny at best.

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  24. unaha-closp (1,137 comments) says:

    JamesBlake; 3.03pm

    So in reality right wing comencement speakers didn’t want to face people who disagreed with them. When administrators refused to hinder the students rights to speach and protest they withdrew. Somehow this got spun so that it seems like their right to speach was some how impinged.

    So in your “reality” shouting down someone with a cacophony of noise and insults is free speech.

    But creating an environment where a set of ideas can be put forward is some sort of perversion of free speech.

    Interesting.

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  25. Redbaiter (8,000 comments) says:

    “not much chance of an actual moron getting a degree”

    I’d say there’s plenty of evidence to the contrary.

    Just look at the politicians representing Labour/ Watermelons for the easiest example.

    “Just out of curiosity what is a progressive?”

    One identifier you might appreciate is the complete absence of personal moral boundaries.

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  26. Redbaiter (8,000 comments) says:

    “What are you and or DPF offering?”

    Thought so, couldn’t think of anything.

    OK, I’ll try.

    How about the fact that the speech and behavioral codes that are being complained of today were all written comparatively recently? After the Progs took over the universities.

    Without those, where’s the evidence that freedom of speech was crippled before that time?

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  27. David Garrett (6,723 comments) says:

    Amusing that Red sees himself as a tireless defender of freedom…but anyone who dares to depart even a smidgeon from Red’s approved path becomes ” a Prog” not worth engaging…

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  28. Huevon (211 comments) says:

    I partially sympathise with what Graham Edgeler is saying. Plus ca change and all that. But we need to be careful applying the problems of the present to the past.

    Sure, on one hand, one doesn’t need to go too far back into the past to find the Catholic Church – which has always been a big supporter of universities, I mean it created most of them in Europe – when it held that “error has no rights”. Presumably there wasn’t much “freedom of speech” in lecture halls in that environment.

    But, and this is a very important caveat, we need to remember that the nature of education has changed radically in the 20th century. If you went to a university in say the 1700s (heck, even 50 years ago), you would have studied classical works, literature, languages, etc. Education imparted the wisdom of the past, and most believed in objective natural law, a sort of eternal reality to the human condition. So, for example, if you disregarded a great work of literature because it was written by a white man and not a trans-cis person of colour, you would probably be told “STFU, listen to what this book is saying and stop being so retarded (IOW, error has no rights)”. So, it wasn’t so much that freedom of speech was suppressed, more like stupidity.

    The modern university has long since departed from this…

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  29. thor42 (970 comments) says:

    All of this is the result of “political correctness” and the left’s “long march through the institutions” (as urged by Gramsci IIRC – correct me if I’m wrong there).
    The schools, universities and media – all have been infested with the left’s groupthink and intolerance of other opinions.

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  30. thor42 (970 comments) says:

    @David Garrett – “Amusing that Red sees himself as a tireless defender of freedom…but anyone who dares to depart even a smidgeon from Red’s approved path becomes ” a Prog” not worth engaging…”

    I think I can see where Redbaiter is coming from.

    I think Red may be of the opinion that ok, “progs” can have the freedom to say their stuff but he isn’t interested in listening or debating with them. If it is put that way, there is not a contradiction at all.

    Have I got it right there Redbaiter?

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  31. Redbaiter (8,000 comments) says:

    “Have I got it right there Redbaiter?”

    Yup, you got it.

    Who needs their worthless wittering shit???

    They’ll be like the dinosaurs and the dodo bird sooner or later.

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  32. Dead Earnest (140 comments) says:

    Cheer up, University campuses will be obsolete in a generation.

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  33. kowtow (7,921 comments) says:

    Mock Redbaiter all you like but he’s right. Progressives are commies in disguise.They use Labour parties as their vehicle of choice.We’ve seen the same thing in the UK and here.

    The real worry is when so called conservatives also start calling themselves “progressives” Camoron and Key come to mind.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/kerohan_claim_to_royal_commission_shorten_despised_gillards_link_to_communi/

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  34. thor42 (970 comments) says:

    It is very sad to see that universities throughout the West have gone hugely backwards (regarding freedom of speech) in the last 50 or 60 years.

    They have progressed hugely in the sciences but they have *re*gressed to the Middle Ages when it comes to freedom of speech.

    I can’t see this changing, but I would love to be wrong.

    @kowtow – “Progressives are commies in disguise.”
    Yes, they are – very much so.

    The left-wing is *killing* freedom of speech.
    It is the *right* that is fighting to retain it (or what little of it remains).

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  35. simonway (375 comments) says:

    They weren’t “prevented from speaking”. Hirsi Ali’s invitation to deliver a commencement address was cancelled, but the university has an open invitation to her to come speak. They just decided that they’re not going to pay her $35,000 for it. “You can come here and deliver a speech if you want to, but we won’t give you $35,000″ is not at all an affront to freedom of speech.

    Likewise for Ms. Rice, although I believe she actually withdrew rather than being cancelled.

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  36. Other_Andy (2,505 comments) says:

    JamesBlake says:

    “I wonder how many people read the link in the orignal story that pointed out that other than the Muslim femanist (I can’t wait to see people here expouse her right to speak aftyer seeing the thread the other day arguing that they shouldn’t even be alowed in the country) the others all withdrew themselves.”

    Not that you are interested in either the reality or the truth.
    Ayaan Hirsi Ali is not a Muslim feminist (they don’t exist) she is a ANTI- Muslim feminist
    And apart from your atrocious spelling, the rest of your post is rubbish as well….

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  37. Griff (6,989 comments) says:

    We had a gentleman posting on here as maori boy at one stage.
    http://www.creative.auckland.ac.nz/people/elam/jman077
    Ex te papa now at Auckland university.
    One of the knobs who spends thousands on repatriating the smoked heads his ancestors farmed then killed and sold for profit.

    It was amusing to wind him up about the stifling of any view on Maori society that did not conform to his Maori komitie views at the university
    they get to vet any and all study that may include Maori for being acceptable according to their understanding.
    When I pointed out that the pacifica community at Auckland u did not support the grievers bullshit he posted that they better or else.

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  38. MT_Tinman (3,043 comments) says:

    kowtow (7,224 comments) says:
    June 13th, 2014 at 4:28 pm
    Mock Redbaiter all you like

    I shall. ;-)

    I dislike this theft of yet another word, both by the commies and the conservo-nutters.

    Progress is generally a good thing.

    GE, universities have always been places of free thought. Of course universities were also for teaching thinking, utilising the intellect.

    Half of what is studied at universities was, and should still be the job of polytechnics.

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  39. kowtow (7,921 comments) says:

    Progress is a great thing.

    Socialism is not.

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  40. David Garrett (6,723 comments) says:

    Griff: Well said,…I think of all the bullshit we are expected to swallow about “Maori culture” it is the supposed reverence for the smoked heads of slaves which were freely traded, particularly pre-1840, which is the worst of all. Despite numerous reliable contemporary sources – remittance men and educated men who had gone to sea as whalers and sealers for whatever reason – confirming the practice, there are many who still deny it worked like that

    I remember having a toe to toe argument with some kid at Uni when I was there 25 years ago…It was apparently “racialist” (the word evolved to “racist” later) to even speak or write of the hideous practice of getting slaves heads tattooed to order…

    Are we taxpayers still paying delegations of Maori to fly business class to overseas musuems to solemnly receive and bring back the tattooed heads of slaves, and then go through some hocus pocus ceremony back here ? It is all the more ridiculous when they can work out what iwi the head’s owner belonged to from the moko…but then the person bearing it was almost certainly from another iwi altogether because he/she was a slave…Total utter bullshit…

    The only thing sillier is Ngai Tahu’s sacred Mountain…Aoraki/Mt Cook….when the tribe only occupied the South Island in the late 18th century…Oh right, the mountain moved with them from the Otaki area…

    MT: Quite so…and there is nothing in the world wrong with a polytech education…I remember reading somewhere that a lawyer only caught up with a plumber’s total earnings when the lawyer was 50…and that’s assuming graduation at 21 -22…So I still have 8 years to go…(being a late starter in the lawyer business)

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  41. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    If there is any thought policing at Harvard it would be by that clown Dershowitz.

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  42. kowtow (7,921 comments) says:

    “progressive” Britain.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2656789/Modern-Britain-no-country-old-men.html

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  43. Sonny Blount (1,847 comments) says:

    JamesBlake (54 comments) says:
    June 13th, 2014 at 3:03 pm
    I wonder how many people read the link in the orignal story that pointed out that other than the Muslim femanist (I can’t wait to see people here expouse her right to speak aftyer seeing the thread the other day arguing that they shouldn’t even be alowed in the country)

    ha ha.

    You have no idea who Hirsan Ali is do you? Perhaps you should do some googling on this.

    JamesBlake (54 comments) says:
    June 13th, 2014 at 3:03 pm

    So in reality right wing comencement speakers didn’t want to face people who disagreed with them. When administrators refused to hinder the students rights to speach and protest they withdrew. Somehow this got spun so that it seems like their right to speach was some how impinged.

    Complete oposite of what you said hey DPF.

    If that was the case the speakers would not have agreed to appear in the first place. Something came up inbetweem the agreement and the appearance, and that is pressure from interest groups/serial whingers.

    Now as a right-winger I think it is allowable for people to complain, allowable for the university to refuse someone, and allowable for the rest of the world to complain about the university. There are no rights involved here.

    Just bad ideas and cowardly choices.

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  44. Don the Kiwi (1,646 comments) says:

    “Progress is generally a good thing.”

    That depends on what is being called progress in today’s world.

    Any “Progress” that attempts to remove or replace things of value that have come down to us from previous generations or traditions is not a good thing. That is a problem rampant in our society – and on this blog.

    E.g. Many on this blog – including the Blogmeister – approve of same sex marriage, and approve of sodomy, on the grounds that it is a “Human Right”.

    The fact that sodomy is totally contrary to nature is ignored, and likewise marriage as a social institution has been between a man and a woman from time immemorial.

    Yet, they say the this is “Progress”; no its not, it’s “Progressivism” – a totally different thing, and bad for our society and civilisation.
    Its this type of “Progress” which will ultimately destroy our society/civilization if it is not combatted and defeated.

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  45. David Garrett (6,723 comments) says:

    Don: I think the boat might have already sailed mate…I agreem with most of what you have said …but good luck trying to reverse “marriage equality” or changing the view of sodomy as just another way to have sex…

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  46. Redbaiter (8,000 comments) says:

    Don’s no cry baby quitter.

    He believes in something.

    Just as the Progs are being slowly pushed out of the Republican Party so shall it happen throughout the West. Not overnight but it will happen. The reformers have not only the momentum but more importantly the conviction.

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  47. Fentex (909 comments) says:

    This power has been seen recently in a host of cancellations of commencement speakers. Just in the past few months Ayaan Hirsi Ali, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, International Monetary Fund managing director Christine Lagarde, and former UC Berkeley Chancellor Robert Birgeneau, have been prevented from speaking by campus virtue squads whose sensibilities they had offended.

    I think this matter is somewhat more complex than a simple battle over rights to speak (which we all agree must be protected I’m sure).

    These people are paid considerable sums to speak and from purses filled by fees paid by the students they will address. Some of them are criminals (Condoleezza Rice was a major protagonist of prosecuting a war of aggression and charges USD 100, 000 or more for these speeches).

    Disputing the decision to pay for their presence may be a valid protest for several reasons, often against a comfortable oligarchic habit of spreading wealth taken from the students around friends of the governors.

    Better they pay for labs and text books.

    Why is it wrong for students to express their displeasure at paying for speakers they disapprove of? What is wrong with their expression that is right with others?

    If an individual opinion is debatable, debate it. I’m sure those who spoke against these speakers each time gave reason for their objection each time. If there is a disagreement make the argument.

    Lumping all objections into a cosy class to label, insult and shame is a lazy attempt to other and exclude people without addressing their concerns.

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  48. David Garrett (6,723 comments) says:

    Red: sometimes you are just downright boooooring…

    Dotcom has apparently got 500 members for his party…what’s holding you up??

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  49. David Garrett (6,723 comments) says:

    He’s gone back to look at one of the old photo albums…”Holes I knew in PNG”…

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  50. kowtow (7,921 comments) says:

    fentex has the victim vocab.

    “….to other and exclude….”

    “Othering”, I’ve come across that in “progressive” rags. Coming to a leftist publication near you soon!

    Othering, FFS.

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  51. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    “Just as the Progs are being slowly pushed out of the Republican Party so shall it happen throughout the West”

    Yeah, that will work.

    What is laughable Bedwetter is the more the Republicans allow themselves to be dictated to by the Tea Party god botherers the more they become unelectable. I assume your idea of a nightmare would be for Clinton to become the next POTUS of the USA, (its not easy knowing with you to be fair, so often you have told blatant lies one is never sure where you stand) yet for some reason you refuse to acknowledge that the more the tea party bible bashers head to the hard religious right the more they guarantee another eight years of a Clinton Whitehouse.

    Oh….and I know I have to keep reminding you of this but you cannot vote for the POTUS.

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  52. Don the Kiwi (1,646 comments) says:

    “Don: I think the boat might have already sailed mate…I agree with most of what you have said …but good luck trying to reverse “marriage equality” or changing the view of sodomy as just another way to have sex…”

    You may well be right David, certainly on that issue.

    But the problem runs much deeper and further than that. In 2002 my wife and I spent a week in Hawaii on our way to the USA to take part in a Pacific Rim Yachting regatta. We visitted Pearl Harbour – and there was an older japanese man with a bunch of who were obviously Japanese students. Sandy and I were standing at the – sort of compass – that shoes the directions of the Japanese attack. There was an American guy there, and we were listening to the Japanese guy explaining to his students – in Japanese – what had happened there on that day in 1941. Part way through I saw the American jolt upright, and scowled for the next few minutes, till the Japanese people went away. I asked him what his problem was, and he – who spoke Japanese – explianed how the older Japaese bloke had given a total alternative story to the real historical story , which blamed the Americans for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.

    When I got back to NZ I researched this point – and it appears that in Japan, they have re-written the history books. I recalled back in the 80′s in the days of the Soviet Union, they re-wrote history claiming all the great achievements had ben done by Russians – the first for powered flight – not the Wright brothers – and so on ad infinitum

    This is what Progressives do – they change or slant history to justify “Change is Progress”. Now I’m not against change, or progress, provided it is in fact progressing society morally, materially or intellectually.

    But much of what is happening in our world today is purely change for the sake of change, and to hell with the consequences, and they call it “Progress”

    I call it bullshit.

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  53. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    “This is what Progressives do – they change or slant history to justify”

    It’s also what Bedwetter does.

    He once claimed he was agnostic, now he denies being anything other than Christian.
    He once claimed that he would never link whore on this blog, now he is one of the more prolific link whores.
    He once claimed that he would never speak in the third person, now his posts are littered with examples of him speaking in the third person.
    He once claimed that he had enjoyed many victories against the left in his ten year war, yet when pushed he cannot name even one of those victories.

    So Don the denier, it is not only the left who attempt to rewrite history.

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  54. Don the Kiwi (1,646 comments) says:

    Mmmm…………

    bb.

    Personal choices are hardly changing history for a progressive agenda.

    We’re all entitled to change our mind – even if you list is realistic

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  55. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    Don

    Changing ones mind is not the same as being caught telling lies.

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  56. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “Don: I think the boat might have already sailed mate…I agree with most of what you have said …but good luck trying to reverse “marriage equality” or changing the view of sodomy as just another way to have sex…”

    Yeah the progs laugh at Mr Craig and his ‘chem trails’ comment.

    Yet it was Key and others from National who actually fell for the Cum Trails hoax:

    “…….A statement by the Royal College of Psychiatrists that people are not born gay has been welcomed as “a major admission” by a Christian charity that helps men and women change unwanted same-sex feelings.

    Core Issues Trust (CIT), which is campaigning against a ban on therapy being offered to people who want to move away from a homosexual lifestyle, says the latest statement by the Royal College admits what it previously denied.

    “They now say that the causes of homosexuality are a combination of ‘biological and postnatal environment factors.’ So, if a child does not encounter such postnatal life experiences, he or she will grow up heterosexual,” says the director of CIT, Mike Davidson.

    Davidson says he is incredulous that despite its admission that being gay is not fixed at birth, the college continues to support the ban on change therapy.

    “The Royal College has also modified its view on whether sexual orientation can change, saying, ‘It is not the case that sexual orientation is immutable or might not vary to some extent in a person’s life,’” he says. “So how can that be consistent with a ban on people voluntarily seeking professional counseling to change unwanted same-sex feelings?”……..’

    Mr Craig should denounce Key at every opportunity with the claim that he was fooled by society destroying Marxists. Marriage gone. Parenting[smacking] gone. Gay adoption. Wide spread disease spread by the hypersexuals………

    The House of Sodom is starting to crumble.

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  57. wat dabney (3,716 comments) says:

    Harriet,

    Since we are being scientific about this, I have to tell you that you have been grossly misinformed as to the position of the Royal College of Psychiatrists.

    “It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by genetic factors (Mustanski et al, 2005) and/or the early uterine environment (Blanchard et al. 2006). Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice…Thus LGB people have exactly the same rights and responsibilities concerning the expression of their sexuality as heterosexual people.”

    http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/workinpsychiatry/specialinterestgroups/gaylesbian/submissiontothecofe/psychiatryandlgbpeople.aspx#origins

    What’s that?

    You don’t give a toss because you are just indulging your ugly bigotry?

    Well what a surprise you vile, ugly, hateful person.

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  58. Don the Kiwi (1,646 comments) says:

    Tut tut, Wat.

    …”You don’t give a toss because you are just indulging your ugly bigotry?
    Well what a surprise you vile, ugly, hateful person.”

    Indulging in your progressive style language to beat down your opponent? Just what the leftist liberal progressives would say.

    And besides, that report is a crock of liberal crap.
    There is no evidence to support a “Gay gene” .

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  59. RichardX (326 comments) says:

    wat dabney (3,636 comments) says:
    June 13th, 2014 at 9:17 pm
    Harriet,
    Since we are being scientific about this, I have to tell you that you have been grossly misinformed as to the position of the Royal College of Psychiatrists.
    “It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by genetic factors (Mustanski et al, 2005) and/or the early uterine environment (Blanchard et al. 2006). Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice…Thus LGB people have exactly the same rights and responsibilities concerning the expression of their sexuality as heterosexual people.”
    http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/workinpsychiatry/specialinterestgroups/gaylesbian/submissiontothecofe/psychiatryandlgbpeople.aspx#origins
    What’s that?
    You don’t give a toss because you are just indulging your ugly bigotry?
    Well what a surprise you vile, ugly, hateful person.

    You missed the bit about Harriet’s imbecilic views on science in general.
    He makes shit up about biology in particular and claims it is common knowledge and found in textbooks but has yet to actually provide evidence in the form of any such textbook

    Don the Kiwi (1,499 comments) says:
    June 13th, 2014 at 9:30 pm
    And besides, that report is a crock of liberal crap.

    Any evidence on why your opinion should have more value than the studies quoted?
    Has your critique been peer reviewed or published anywhere so we can make an informed decision on their relative merits?

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  60. wat dabney (3,716 comments) says:

    Don,

    You appear to be very confused.

    Just to be clear, is the Royal College of Psychiatrists the authority on gayness that Harriet claims, or is it not.

    Obviously the answer depends on your prior bigoted position, but please do clear this up for us.

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  61. Fentex (909 comments) says:

    When I got back to NZ I researched this point – and it appears that in Japan, they have re-written the history books.

    This is what Progressives do – they change or slant history to justify “Change is Progress”.

    Progressives are socialists trying to dodge the label of socialism, Japanese nationalists are not socialists.

    It makes little sense to lump Japanese nationalist history of WW2 in with hypothetical progressives and think a meaningful pattern is observed. Every political viewpoint tries to cast events in the lights of a preferred theory.

    That nationalists, conservatives, socialists, fascists et al do it does not condemn any one ideology any more than another.

    A Japanese Nationalist is going to play up U.S aggression in the early 1940′s, and a U.S nationalist can be expected to play down U.S aggression at any time. It shouldn’t surprise any one.

    If there’s something important in any argument about events one ought address the argument at hand and not expect much respect for non-sequitor efforts to disparage it for ad hoc associations.

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  62. Dean Papa (782 comments) says:

    TRIGGER WARNING !!!!!

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