Why not name the country?

June 30th, 2014 at 7:00 am by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

A diplomat accused of a sex crime was ordered out of New Zealand after invoking .

Despite attempts by the New Zealand government to haul the man before the courts, his home country refused to waive his immunity.

Under the Vienna Convention, diplomats cannot be arrested or detained in foreign countries.

The man, who was employed at a high commission in Wellington, was arrested by police after an attack on a 21-year-old in her Wellington home last month. He had followed the woman home.

Police told the Herald on Sunday they had sufficient evidence to charge him with assault with intent to rape, but had let him go as he was not able to be prosecuted under New Zealand law. He had also been charged with burglary.

It is understood the man — who was aged in his 30s and had interim — refused to give a DNA sample.

He had full diplomatic immunity, and left New Zealand.

As he will not be facing trial, surely the name suppression should now lapse.

And is there a reason the country he represents can not be named? It is a high commission, so that narrows it down to the Commonwealth.

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52 Responses to “Why not name the country?”

  1. RRM (10,104 comments) says:

    Hope you enjoyed your kiwi experience, arsehole…

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  2. CryHavoc (47 comments) says:

    I would guess they can’t name the country because the High Commission is small enough to make it obvious who it is.

    Related: saw a statement from Shearer yesterday calling on McCully to “follow up” with the country concerned. Follow up, eh. That’s strong stuff.

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  3. georgebolwing (1,011 comments) says:

    Countries with High Commissions in Wellington are;

    Australia
    Canada
    Papua New Guinea
    Solomon Islands
    Cook Islands
    Malaysia
    India
    Pakistan
    Samoa
    South Africa
    United Kingdom

    Source: http://www.mfat.govt.nz/includes/pdf/PDF-Foreign-Representatives-to-NZ.php

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  4. wreck1080 (4,001 comments) says:

    This man should be pursued by our government.

    The government this man represents should be putting him on trial themselves.

    Someone should of course name this person. Half of wellington probably knows so it just needs a posting to an anonymous website and hey presto.

    It is unconscionable that he gets no punishment for a despicable crime.

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  5. tas (655 comments) says:

    Presumably naming the country would piss off that country, which means they are going to become less cooperative in terms of extradition and lifting of immunity.

    Hopefully a diplomatic solution can be found that involves the gentleman concerned making a less enjoyable second trip to NZ.

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  6. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    States place their relations with other states ahead of the rights of their own citizens.

    Time for change.

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  7. petal (706 comments) says:

    3 News reports the arrest was made in Brooklyn.

    The Malaysian High Commission is in Brooklyn.

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  8. Keeping Stock (9,384 comments) says:

    Key has just said he will probably name this country this afternoon, once he has taken legal advice with regard to the suppression order.

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  9. fernglas (199 comments) says:

    if he had interim name suppression, it will lapse on the charges being withdrawn, which should happen now he has gone.

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  10. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    Yes, name the country… JK hinted at that this morning.
    But sudden departures by diplomats are always noted, so ……

    Is Fiji still a High Commission? Technically it is not since it has been excommunicated from the Commonwealth ….BUT ????
    ***
    This whole issue will not go anywhere unless the diplomat is now “persona non grata” in his country. And there will be “cultural” differences at play, will there not?
    Bleating by media, and us on KB, will go no where.

    I do NOT in any way excuse what the fellow may or may not have done. Issuing a warrant for arrest is PR BS. But it may well prevent a posting to another country…. It will all boil down to whether he is important to his country – in the eyes of their Government

    Sad, but true.

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  11. Mobile Michael (476 comments) says:

    Petal – very few diplomatic staff are posted to accommodation in the embassy/high commission. They would live outside in private houses. Your assumption may be jumping the gun.

    Although it may be bang on, I don’t know anything beyond what the media has reported.

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  12. Keeping Stock (9,384 comments) says:

    There was also a comment from Key this morning that the diplomat was likely to face court action in his homeland, wherever that is. That could actually be a worse punishment!

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  13. Simon (786 comments) says:

    It will be one of the failed shitty ones thus also explaining why they are a failed shitty country.

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  14. RRM (10,104 comments) says:

    Wreck1080 (3,668 comments) says:
    June 30th, 2014 at 7:30 am
    This man should be pursued by our government.

    I’ll put our best man on the case, right away.

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  15. greenjacket (486 comments) says:

    “3 News reports the arrest was made in Brooklyn.
    The Malaysian High Commission is in Brooklyn.”

    And this is exacrly why the government has to “name and shame” the country – otherwise, all Commonwealth High Commissions are suspected to have harboured an attempted rapist.

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  16. burt (7,436 comments) says:

    He’ll be back – a few hundred thousand in cash donated to the Labour party will see his permanent residency granted using any of about 20 names…..

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  17. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    Why the hell would some want him returned to NZ?

    NZ is better off for the scum NOT being here any longer!

    I agree DPF, the country protecting this p.o.s. should be named – to protect those dealing with their diplomats still here.

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  18. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    burt 08:53

    Only if he has brown skin.

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  19. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    greenjacket: Well said…

    But as for “he’ll face action in his home country”, I wouldn’t bet on that…That’ll be what his High Commissioner has told MFAT…if he was going to face charges there, why not allow it to happen here?

    My pick? One of those that follow the religion of peace…its male adherents apparent lose control when they see a woman’s hair or ankles, much less anything more…Courtenay Place on a Saturday night must be absolute sensory overload for the poor chaps.

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  20. justinian (21 comments) says:

    Ahem – how would he have name suppression if he had not appeared in Court and no order made under the provisions of the Criminal Procedure Act.

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  21. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Justinian: He may well have appeared already and been remanded without plea and given name suppression while the immunity issue was gone into…I dunno…Come in Graeme E (when you have finished your morning sauerkraut…)

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  22. burt (7,436 comments) says:

    Name suppression – Is he an entertainer or an all black ?

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  23. fernglas (199 comments) says:

    It seems from Stuff that warrants have been issued for his failure to appear, apparently so the charges can remain active in case he foolishly returns. It seems then that he must have been before a Court. I saw on another blog that both name and country have been suppressed, in which case Mr Oil is at risk of facing another charge, as he has identified the latter. Of course, we mustn’t forget that Oil still has an appeal on foot over his previous convictions, although that was based on his argument that his blog was not a publication, which kind of runs counter to his recent determination to be considered a journalist so he can protect his sources. But I digress. If there are charges before the Court and they are not dismissed, then the interim suppression order will either lapse depending on its terms, or if expressed as so many are “until further order of the Court”, will need to be the subject of an application by the Police or a media organisation as they have standing to apply to set such orders aside.

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  24. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    fernglas: Your knowledge suggests you are a member of the Brotherhood of the High One…is that the case? Only reason I ask is it’s nice to know the bush lawyers from the real ones on here…you sound like one of the latter…

    Slightly off topic, I am wondering when our courts will take a deep breath and grasp the nettle of “Suppression Orders in the Internet Age”…You say Mr Oil has already published the country (quick drop in view numbers here while everyone heads over there) the accused represents; by the end of the day, someone will have dropped enough hints for anyone with any computer nous to work out exactly who he is…it is past time for the courts to recognise its not 1985…every suppression order someone gets around opens the courts up to more ridicule..

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  25. Chris2 (775 comments) says:

    Am I being picky here: Shearer of the Labour Party is quoted on stuff.co.nz thus – “He called for the diplomat’s extradition back to New Zealand”.

    Now, extraditions are sole the responsibility of the NZ Police.

    Is this a case of Shearer of the Labour Party trying to influence a Police investigation?

    If so, ought he not resign for trying to influence a police investigation – much in the way Maurice Williamson did over Liu?

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  26. fernglas (199 comments) says:

    David

    The Law Commission is onto it, and released an issues paper in May. It seems to cover all aspects of contempt, including the current hot topic of juror contempt …”the googling juror”, and suppression as well. As always, the law will be running 10 paces behind technology and it all seems a bit farcical. Telling jurors not to Google on cases they are doing is like a party game my brother and his friends used to play; they had to sit there and not think of Belgium, and the first one to do so had to down a pint.

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  27. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    fernglas: Thanks for that update…Yes, I quite agree…expecting jurors not to Google is utterly unrealistic – asking them not to read any prior comment on the accused was a big enough ask …If it is not happening already, we will have the ludicrous situation where all the jurors who have any real sense of the responsibility of what they are engaged in will have googled the defendant,,,but no-one will admit to it lest the others tell the Teacher.

    To be fair to the Law Commission, I think it’s entirely understandable that whatever they recommend ” the law will be running 10 paces behind technology..” I find the rapid advances in technology really really scary, and for my age I am relatively computer literate..

    Chris2; Yep, you a being a bit of a pedant…politicians of all hues “call for” things to happen all the time…usually no one takes much notice…

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  28. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    fernglas: I saw on another blog that both name and country have been suppressed, in which case Mr Oil is at risk of facing another charge, as he has identified the latter.

    Sure about that?

    Most MSM news sites say that the person is from a High Commission and that he was arrested in Brooklyn. All WhaleOil did was Google ‘high commission brooklyn wellington’ and noted the search engine brought up one particular HC. He hasn’t accused anyone – he just revealed the result of a Google search.

    Sorted.

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  29. gump (1,685 comments) says:

    I looked at the list of countries with High Commissions in Wellington, thought about which of those countries have a cultural propensity for sexual violence against women, and considered which countries have been known to invoke diplomatic immunity to shield their diplomatic staff from misbehavior in recent times.

    There’s only one country on the list that meets all three of those requirements.

    And that country is India.

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  30. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    So, the field is narrowing! One heavily Muslim country whose male citizens become aroused by the sight of a woman’s hair, let along any other …bits…Another a country with an appalling record of Neanderthal treatment of women…But then there are other contenders surely? Pakistan, not exactly a nations renowned for advanced attitudes towards women…)

    I am sure I have read somewhere that in the highlands of PNG women as less valuable than pigs…

    What a fun game!!

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  31. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    Surprised you find that nasty sort of generalised speculation fun DG – especially when our own country is far from faultless when it comes to burglaries and sexual assaults.

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  32. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Fuck off PG…I am not interested in your “rape culture” theories…

    I am merely engaging in a bit of amused speculation as to where the accused may come from…There is – or at least was – certainly a “rape culture” in some places I have lived – including Scotland – New Zealand is not one of them…you ever lived out of Dunedin?

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  33. mikenmild (12,447 comments) says:

    No, you just want to speculate that this offender is from a country about which you hold stereotyped views.

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  34. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    Now you’re over-reacting DG. It’s nothing about theories, what you are doing is generalised derogatory speculation. It’s bloody sad if you find that amusing.

    You don’t know the nationality or ethnicity of the alleged offender so you’re using it as an excuse to be an arse.

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  35. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    Mobile Michael (399 comments) says:

    June 30th, 2014 at 8:02 am

    Petal – very few diplomatic staff are posted to accommodation in the embassy/high commission. They would live outside in private houses. Your assumption may be jumping the gun.
    ****

    Just noticed, so very late with this comment, but the man could NOT be arrested on the High Commission premises. The High Commission (or Embassy) is the property of the nation in question. Police cannot enter except by invitation (try doing that at the US Embassy or UK High Commission, for example). My guess is that he was arrested in/at his home. Not sure about the status of a diplomat’s home. Moot?

    But there is another issue.
    Was the DPS involved? That branch of Police “protects” all diplomatic personnel and NZ politicians equally So was the DPS told/consulted before he was “arrested”…. or did someone forget?

    There may be worms wriggling here

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  36. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    One “report” I read had the scum arrested at or near the place he broke into.

    Brooklyn may be a red herring.

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  37. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Well PG, you sensitive little petal…here’s a wee wager for you…a box of chocolate fish or a couple of bottles of good chardy (or whatever wine you like) says it is NOT Australia, Canada, The Cooks or the UK (from the list helpfully provided upthread by George B…have to lay your bet before JK rolls the roulette wheel and spills the beans mind…

    flipper: Any such wriggling worms will surely have gasped their last and died now that the accused miscreant is back in his home country??

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  38. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    DG…
    As I posted this morning, all will depend on whether the miscreant is “persona non grata” in his nation. In other words how valuable he is in the eyes of that nation.

    Of course, if he is considered “valuable” there are ways they could handle their investigation.
    We have already set a couple of precedents. Just think of how allegations against Helen Clark et al were handled.

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  39. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    flipper: surely if he was persona non grata at home they would have waived immunity and let him be tried here?

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  40. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    DG….
    Sorry been out.
    Yes
    Agree
    Could be we are in for their version of “Clark/Simpson” ???
    :-)

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  41. rangitoto (264 comments) says:

    Persona non grata refers to status in a foreign country. There’s no such thing as being persona non grata at home in the sense the term is used in diplomacy.

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  42. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    rangitoto (182 comments) says:

    June 30th, 2014 at 2:41 pm

    Persona non grata
    ****

    Heh Rangi..back off.

    I know what the term means – note the “…” – so does DG.
    The use here was short hand for “you are for the high jump”…. or….”go back”

    But that’s cool ‘Bros

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  43. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    “mikenmild (10,291 comments) says:
    June 30th, 2014 at 1:15 pm
    No, you just want to speculate that this offender is from a country about which you hold stereotyped views.’

    Yeah, no reason for that at all!!!!!!!!

    http://www.wnd.com/2014/06/couple-hacked-to-death-by-brides-muslim-family/?cat_orig=faith

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  44. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Just checked out “Stuff”… good article on various outrages over the years by diplomats in this country – including the death of a young woman who was crashed into by a drunk Chilean diplomat…I vaguely remember the furore over it…

    Story ruined by a section headed “Brutal Chinese guards”…the ‘brutality’, and the offence? Chinese guards taking the Tibetan flag off Red Russell (the one in parliament) and refusing to give it back to him…

    Milky and PG: “sterotypes” and “clichés” have a funny thing in common…they are very often accurate…there may BE a German who doesn’t like order among chaos, but I haven’t met one

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  45. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    ..And now that I am back on this thread I see neither of you has accepted my wager that this guy will NOT be from one of the countries I listed who happen to have a High Comm in Wellington…

    The wager is open until it is announced where he is from…come on petals! Back your instincts? No….?

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  46. Scott1 (593 comments) says:

    Probably a country with enough corruption that protecting the powerful outranks potential embarrassment, so I’d say Aust/Canada/UK are out.

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  47. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Scott: Me too…I have taken a slight gamble (ex bookies should only ever bet on certainties) and ruled out the Cook Islands too…but old Milky and Pete “rape culture” George still don’t like the odds…and I’m offering a bottle of their favourite NZ wine!!

    You’da thunk one of them would have had the cojones to back his instincts…and preciousness about “stereotypes”…

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  48. Fletch (6,532 comments) says:

    Reminds me of the time that Helen’s husband needed rescuing from the U.S….

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  49. Pete George (23,836 comments) says:

    I have no idea what country is involved DG and have no inclination to guess. And I don’t have any inclination to help you try and justify your prejudices. Own your own crap.

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  50. mike tan (500 comments) says:

    I think its fair to rule out certain countries on account of the information that the government refused to waive immunity.

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  51. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Peter…you are a sanctimonious little…chap…I thought you were a bit long in the tooth/sensible to talk about “owning” opinions…my kids laugh their young arses off at older guys who try and be hip…

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  52. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    ..and a few little toadies give him upticks…ah well…this is an odd little place

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