Another day, another u-turn or apology

July 25th, 2014 at 3:00 pm by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

Labour leader told NewstalkZB in April that he would be happy to debate Prime Minister John Key “anytime, any place, anywhere, I’ll even do it on ’s show.”

I’m looking forward to Labour releasing their dossier on Mike Hosking. I wonder if they have dossiers on all journalists, or just those they feel are not comradely enough?

I note that Campbell Live ran an entire episode to a bizarre conspiracy theory about John Key and Kim Dotcom, which basically implied the PM was a pathological liar and part of a global conspiracy. Despite that the PM appears on Campbell Live and no one in National has ever tried to heavy TV3 as to their choice of moderator.

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48 Responses to “Another day, another u-turn or apology”

  1. mjw (392 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  2. Bill Ted (93 comments) says:

    Unfortunately (or fortunately for National) this just shows how incompetent Cunliffe’s advisors are. If Hosking was to show bias in an election debate it would be the dream result, because then that would become a story with more Labour-friendly commentators like Vernon Small writing at length on it and Paddy Gower getting stuck in just for kicks. You have to wonder if anyone in his inner-circle has even the most basic grasp on what they’re doing. But then maybe they do…

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  3. Brian Smaller (4,015 comments) says:

    I am not sure how anyone can see Cunliffe and Labour as anything other than rank cowards.

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  4. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    mjw: You are delusional, surely…do tell us about the “backdown” by Key..

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  5. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  6. redqueen (556 comments) says:

    Truly unbelievable. Another day, another bugger up by Cunliffe. Even might wife has started calling him Cun*liffe. He just can’t seem to cut himself a break…which isn’t surprising, as he seems to have a nasty tendency of telling two or more things to two or more audiences…Maybe instead of concentrating on ‘core’ issues, he should concentrate on telling the same story each time…

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  7. James Stephenson (2,155 comments) says:

    Why would JK not want Campbell as a moderator? Cricket has a term for this – Campbell is very much JK’s “bunny”.

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  8. Gulag1917 (884 comments) says:

    Class warfare runs deep [not that it does the poor any good] and class warfare means the preference for somebody like Mr Campbell rather than Mr Hosking.

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  9. kiwi in america (2,428 comments) says:

    The left can normally rely on a largely compliant mainstream media….to a point. The tipping point is when the left’s supposedly most prominent candidate (i.e. the Leader of the Opposition and possible future Prime Minister) is so abjectly useless that even the most partisan commentators realize they are looking at a loser. Trotter tries to blame Cunliffe’s Rogernomics tainted ABC opponents from preventing the wider party from completing the hard left takeover of Labour. None of this matters. Cunliffe has changed his position, prevaricated, lied, dissembled and bluffed too many times to be taken seriously. It is easy to blame his advisors but having been an trusted advisor to a LOO, I can tell you that a good candidate who has good political instincts can smell a silly staffer idea and dismiss it.

    Cunliffe is the most politically tone deaf LOO in modern NZ political history. Even Jim McLeay and Don Brash would not have apologized for being a man to Rape Crisis and then a couple of weeks later, be seen schmoozing with NZ’s version of Rolf Harris AFTER he knew about the sexual assault charges levied and then lie about knowing about it. Hoskings will keep the debate fair and even, something Mark Sainsbury was sometimes not able to do, and Cunliffe will be as easy for Key to debate in the televised debates as he has been day after day in the House. One only needs to have a fresh look at Key’s polite but clinical assassination of John Campbell to get a taste of what lies in store for Silent T http://www.3news.co.nz/John-Key-defends-the-GCSB-bill/tabid/817/articleID/309018/Default.aspx

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  10. redqueen (556 comments) says:

    @Judith

    If you mean that National doesn’t plan to destroy the country with vast quantities of new ‘initiatives’ and legislation, generally favouring the state coercing ever more money out of me, you’re right. In areas where they do seem to think spending more of my money is justified is in child healthcare, promoting better teaching, continuing a massive fibre build, and a huge amount of legislation ‘behind the scenes’ (in professional services, at least, we’ve had a vast amount of change in the past few years, and yet more to come). So that National doesn’t attempt to pass policy based on the number of column inches may be true, but there are significant changes occurring which do have a positive impact on NZ. That’s why it’s more of a debate, at this point, between competent and incompetent, with a lot of the details abstracted because they’re simply more complicated than newspaper editors (or most left-wing politicians) can actually handle.

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  11. Sofia (856 comments) says:

    Why would TVNZ ask Campbell to moderate their programme when Campbell is a TV3 employee?

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  12. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ redqueen (454 comments) says:
    July 25th, 2014 at 3:33 pm

    Whatever the reasons redqueen, it is sadly lacking from the discourse IMO. I spoke to a couple this morning whilst walking the dog. They commented on the various boardings that have gone up at the end of our street, and how useless Cunliffe is, which I agreed with. I asked them what they thought of Key, and both said what a great man he was (or words similar). I then asked them what they liked most about his policies – neither could answer – neither knew of one thing that he was offering them (a couple in their early 60’s – both working) for the next term of government. So I asked them did they agree with his stance on the retirement age – they didn’t know what that was, or even what the retirement age Key supported. This was something that would severely impact their lives – and they didn’t know!! So then I asked them exactly what they liked about Key and National, and they couldn’t say – all they could say was what they didn’t like about Cunliffe!!

    But don’t be discouraged, I think I convinced them to vote for Winston – or rather, the old girl said she didn’t mind Winnie and after talking to me, realised she knew more about what he stood for, than Key.

    And that has been my ongoing complaint about this whole election build up – sure point out Cunliffe’s mistakes, god knows there has been plenty – but it is starting to become very obvious by its absence, that the things you point out about National are not ‘out there’ for the general public to see, know or even realise.

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  13. Psycho Milt (2,411 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  14. burt (8,241 comments) says:

    I’m just surprised that TVNZ has any employee’s that aren’t either actively campaigning for Labour or wanting to be candidates.

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  15. lilman (953 comments) says:

    lol,Winston would be proud of you Judith.
    Seriously can’t think of who I am more disappointed in at the moment,ACT or Labour,as ACT simply fails to be relevant whilst Labour is a poor example of Opposition.
    Must admit Key was silly to give any foothold to his opponents with the Brownlee gate affair, but cant help but wonder how poor the advice Cunliffe has received during this campaign.
    It’s almost as if a mole has been planted in their ranks to be this bad.

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  16. superflynz (14 comments) says:

    Another thread, another sanctimonious diatribe from ol’ Judith.

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  17. hmmokrightitis (1,586 comments) says:

    So, Judith. These constant personality attacks. Got evidence of these, and how much they outweigh those by labour (tinker bell anyone?) to back up your claim?

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  18. Sofia (856 comments) says:

    Related “lie”? – is all yet revealed?

    Mr Cunliffe admits a prominent New Zealander’s possible sexual offending had been raised with him before he met with the man in Queenstown last week.
    The Labour leader says the meeting went ahead because no proof had been supplied.

    Since, apparently, the meeting didn’t involve the issue of offending [or Cunliffe, with proof, would have walked away?] what was the meeting for? Was the offender generous beyond the bottle of wine he handed over?
    Is he possibly now a Labour Party donor as well?
    A Name Suppressed Donor would be a damn site better than just a secret donor [or six month loaner]

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  19. tom hunter (4,749 comments) says:

    What he hasn’t done: personally endorsed one of the candidates, or denounced the other candidate.

    Another example of how doomed the old media are. Few any longer believe such faux neutrality. In the US something like 90% of media people were found to have contributed to the Obama campaigns of 2008 and 2012 – and that came as no surprise to anybody. In the face of such things who cares whether they “publicly” endorsed Obama or denounced McCain and Romney. Their actions said everything that needed to be known about where they stood.

    So it is with Campbell. He’s past statements about voting for the Alliance and his various smear jobs like the one noted above tell us he’ll endorse any coalition of left wing parties and after the humiliation Key served up to him on TV he would not be human if did not denounce the man in exactly the same tones as yourself. One day we may even find out – after Campbell’s retired from broadcasting – that he hates right wing parties with a passion.

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  20. Huevon (220 comments) says:

    Labour’s problem is that it assumes that people on the other side of the political spectrum are evil. A Leftie simply can’t fathom that Mike Hosking might put aside his personal political opinions and act as an impartial professional journalist. It does not compute for them.

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  21. RightNow (6,988 comments) says:

    If the latest jokes doing the rounds are anything to go by then Labour will be lucky to get 2nd in this election.
    People I used to think were life long Labour voters have been mercilessly taking the piss out of Cun’liffe.

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  22. freemark (569 comments) says:

    I think you are lying Judith. You haven’t had any time to do dog walkies, or talk to anyone, or work, or clean the house, all day – you have pretty much incessantly spouted shit on this and other blogs, under a variety of names, since early this morning.
    I mean, nice try, but everyone pretty much has you figured out by now…

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  23. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ freemark (432 comments) says:
    July 25th, 2014 at 4:32 pm

    Bullshit – produce one post I have made on any other blog freemark – its easy to make mindless statements like you have, knowing you cannot substantiate them.

    I am quite sure that you judge people by your own behaviours, but that doesn’t mean everyone else does the same as you. I’m sure you post like an energiser bunny on every blog that will let you on it – but just because you do, and maybe others do, doesn’t mean that everyone else does.

    I have had plenty of time to walk the dog, do grocery shopping and even send comments to the first batch of annotated bibliographies that my students had to present this week – but you wouldn’t understand that – you’re far more interested in trying to construct stories to discredit people that don’t agree with your worldview – that is discredit them by applying your own poor behavioural habits to them.

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  24. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ hmmokrightitis (1,507 comments) says:
    July 25th, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    The evidence is there only you just don’t want to acknowledge it. This entire blog is evidence of those personal attacks. If you can’t see them, then try opening both eyes. You seem to think that for some reason because it comes from the team you support, its acceptable, and that no one else has the right to criticise anything.

    When someone dares to point out what they notice – instead of discussing the message, you and others resort to attacking the messenger instead. The fact remains, National has not openly discussed their policies, and the vast majority of information and expression coming from National is just personal attacks on the opposition. If you can’t see that then try reading this blog a little closer – almost every thread for months has been some sort of attack on the opposition – which far outweigh the number of threads that discuss National’s policies.

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  25. lolitasbrother (669 comments) says:

    I see Dotcon as a traitor to New Zealand. But is there anything in his threats to drop a bombshell on the eve of Election?
    I hope not . He seems bent on destruction, we really do need rid of him.

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  26. ldypen (36 comments) says:

    The Stasi in east Germany used to have plenty of dossiers, they used to have plenty of information on the major political foes.. bet Cu?life’s dossier is hardly worth reading.. I mean how many times can you be bothered to read YEH-NAH !?

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  27. redqueen (556 comments) says:

    @Judith

    The fact that you convinced them to vote for Winnie the Poo says enough for me. NZ First is devoid of any substantive policy, beyond Winston getting baubles, bashing foreigners (particularly if they’re yellow), and lying to people, whenever it suits him. If that’s the sort of ‘policy’ we’re discussing, then I don’t think it really matters what any other political party says, because it’s going to be on a different planet.

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  28. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ superflynz (10 comments) says:
    July 25th, 2014 at 4:06 pm

    o0h dear – you’ve been here ‘how long’? And already you know my posting habits, and just felt you needed to come and comment on them. Did it occur to you that you have the ability to NOT read my comments?

    Oh, and I’ve heard it before – long time reader, not often a poster – sure!!! I suggest you stop putting yourself through the pain and ignore my comments if they are so upsetting to you – but better bullies than you have tried to stop me posting, and haven’t succeeded, so I suggest your pathetic attempts won’t achieve it, either.

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  29. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ redqueen (455 comments) says:
    July 25th, 2014 at 4:58 pm

    I was actually joking about that part – I asked them if there was anyone else they had considered was okay, and the wife said Winston – and then stated that she knew more about him than any of the others, and I think had met him or something like that. My message to them was the same as it is here – vote on policies, not personalities, and if you don’t know anything about John Key, other than the personality message, then don’t vote for him just because you don’t like someone else, because you don’t know what you might be voting for that will effect your life.

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  30. Simon (699 comments) says:

    “sure point out Cunliffe’s mistakes, god knows there has been plenty”

    What a coincidence. I was walking along the beach today and came across a half dead penguin. Before it rolled over and died it croaked

    “Cunnlife is a fuckup who cant even run the labour party but instead wants to run the country. What gives?”

    Poor penguin I said nobody can work that out either but it was too late.

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  31. freemark (569 comments) says:

    We can only wish…

    Judith not returning
    Sunday, April 3rd, 2011 at 10:56 am
    Posted in NZ Politics

    Thanks to Judith and co
    Wednesday, May 28th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
    Posted in New Zealand, NZ Politics

    Rodney on Judith
    Thursday, November 1st, 2007 at 7:15 am
    Posted in Uncategorized

    Judith and the broomstick
    Wednesday, June 27th, 2007 at 7:49 am
    Posted in Uncategorized

    No back row for Judith
    Thursday, November 3rd, 2005 at 9:31 am
    Posted in Uncategorized

    Domestic violence crimes
    Monday, July 14th, 2014 at 1:00 pm
    Posted in New Zealand

    The cyber bullying law
    Wednesday, May 28th, 2014 at 6:48 am
    Posted in Internet, NZ Politics

    A silly complaint
    Friday, May 23rd, 2014 at 11:00 am
    Posted in NZ Politics

    Winston’s horse
    Thursday, May 15th, 2014 at 1:00 pm
    Posted in NZ Politics

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  32. Peter (1,700 comments) says:

    More prosperous hilarity from the jellyfish of New Zealand politics.

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  33. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ freemark (433 comments) says:
    July 25th, 2014 at 5:05 pm

    What on earth is that list meant to prove freemark? For a start Judith is a common name, and secondly it is not my actual name. Before I posted here, I’d never used it anywhere else, and I used to post here under the name of Ginny, except I changed my IP and having forgotten my password, couldn’t get back in under that name – something I’ve always been honest about. I have never used the same anywhere else – so what are you trying to prove?

    – that you have some sort of unhealthy obsession with my comments, so much so that you’ve stalked back to 2005 to try and find the name judith mentioned somewhere on the web? Did it occur to you that our Minister of Justice is also called Judith?

    Or are you just trying to prove that you’re too stupid to ignore comments if they bother you?

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  34. freemark (569 comments) says:

    Not only are you a strange woman, but you don’t even have a sense of humour.
    Fucking sad…

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  35. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    freemark (434 comments) says:
    July 25th, 2014 at 5:28 pm

    well perhaps if you’d put a smiley face I might have got the idea – that is why they were invented for the web – by people that accepted due to the lack of emotional cues normally detected in voice tone etc, many ‘receivers’ had no way of determining the hidden message in internet comments.

    Now that you have pointed that out – yes, I can see your funny message – that must have taken you time to sort out – I’m pleased you think I am so important ! :P

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  36. Fentex (944 comments) says:

    As silly as it makes Labour seem, it isn’t as bad as another day another minister lied to us.

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  37. SW (240 comments) says:

    Oh the irony, did you forget about Keys earlier “U-turn” DPF?

    So DC was referring to the one leaders debate on TV 1 here? And has John Campbell personally endorsed Cunliffe?

    Usual DPF bullshit – when it suits, compare apples with oranges. When it doesn’t suit, point out the reasons why the Granny Smith is different to the Braeburn. Spin 101, here on a daily basis and done exceptionally well at times.

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  38. Dave_1924 (114 comments) says:

    Labour – found by genuinely tough men – West Coast Miners in the early 1900’s. Suspect the the3 ghostly Monteiths is being spat out b ythe Ghostly founders when viewing their inheritors behaving so weakly…

    Labour – a voice for the underclasses and the working amn [supposedly]. Built to rage and fight against the odds for justice and a fair go – a fair days wage for fair days work….

    And what do we have? Hosking is a rightie, it ain’t fair, I’m not going to play. Take a concrete pill Prima Cunliffe and HTFU

    get in fight against the odds, don’t pine for the Leftie Greenie Campbell as moderator…. be a staunch leader and front up.

    I need no other reason to not consider Labour for my vote on 20 September than this insipid whinging …

    i would call him a pussy but that is unfair to the cat….

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  39. SHG (312 comments) says:

    Campbell’s job is to entertain his viewers so TV3 can sell advertising. He went hard on Helen Clark when she was PM – remember “corngate”? – and he’s gone hard on John Key in turn. Being a cheerleader for the Beehive doesn’t get eyeballs.

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  40. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    Crikey that Judith is a busy little bee isn’t she? Walking the dog…proselytising to confused oldies…doing the grocery shopping, walking the dog again, marking her students “annotated bibiliographies” (apparently anything classes as academic work these days); presumably doing some work on her doctoral thesis…AND posting on here all day…(I agree that there’s nor real way of knowing is she doing the same on other blogs using another handle, so let’s leave that one)

    Shit, I cant manage half of those things, and I only have a rinky dink law practice to run and some kids to look after…

    The country needs Judith and her multiple skills and capacity for work!!

    And scrolling back I see that freemark is also accused – along with moi – of “stalking” her…well, someone with much greater computer skills than me may be able to trace where the silly bint is posting from, but alas, the best I can do is manage to work the diabolical Windows 8 that was foisted on me by a smart salesman…

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  41. Psycho Milt (2,411 comments) says:

    …apparently anything classes as academic work these days…

    Your ignorance is your own cross to bear, DG – it reflects nothing on Judith.

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  42. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (6,344 comments) says:
    July 25th, 2014 at 6:12 pm

    So tell me David, as you’re so very clever, how long does it take to walk a dog? And I only did it the once today.

    So come on clever clogs, what amount of time does walking the dog take? Is it 5 mins, 10 mins, 30 mins or more?

    In my case, it took 25 mins, including chatting to some friendly people who I often see as they also walk their dog in the same area. Maybe the people in your area don’t talk to you … so you find it unusual. I think that reflects more on you, than me?

    And grocery shopping, how long does that take David? Is there a prescribed time, or is it dependent on the amount of goods you need to purchase? Again you appear to know exactly, because how else could you possibly have worked out how much of my day was spent on such tasks, in order for you to complete your analysis.

    Do you even know what an annotated bibliography is? I suspect you don’t, because if you did, you wouldn’t have been so quick to pass judgement on them.

    “And posting here all day..” Really? In order for that to be proven, given my typing speed, you would need to find one of my posts here, let’s say in five minute intervals, for the entire day – please feel free to provide that list to prove you are not merely exaggerating or perhaps being dishonest?

    The fact that you cannot do that many things and more in a day, says a lot more about you, than it does me. There are several other tasks I also completed during the day – some of which I don’t feel the need to share or be accountable for. The fact you go to such lengths to continue your campaign to try and discredit everything I say is an incredible insult to the other posters here. Clearly you think they are all stupid enough to believe that you would have any idea how long it took to walk my dog, shop, and make comments on students work, when you don’t even know the length of the assignments, or the number/year and other such details. Maybe there are some that are that stupid, there are certainly plenty that disagree with me that would happily support your campaign, but apart from you, and maybe freemark, I don’t think any of them are stupid enough to believe you know all that – because if you did – then the term stalker certainly would apply to you.

    You intimate you know how long it took for me to walk my dog, and do my shopping – and you wonder why I call you a stalker – you are precious indeed.

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  43. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    “…some WHO are that stupid..” Judy, not that… you use “that” when you are talking about inanimate objects…I would have thought a Masters grad like you would know such basic grammar…but that’s right, you let the editor fix it up! Sorry, I had forgotten..

    No, I wouldn’t have a clue what an “annotated bibliography” is…when I was doing my degrees we wrote essays with bibliographies at the end… is an “annotated bibliography” some sort of digital age short cut? When you can get degrees in purchasing I suppose anything is possible…Please do enlighten me if you wish..

    But you probably won’t…because you’ve got me…YES I know how long it took you to walk your dog! How long you were in Pak n Save…who you spoke to…how much you spent..

    Yes! All your fears about the GCSB Bill are justified! John and I are onto you…

    Psycho: I have so many crosses to bear…ignorance about what an annotated bibliography might be is not one of them…

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  44. Kimble (4,434 comments) says:

    mjw said,

    That was not referring to the election debate. Talk about taken out of context. And if you are rarking up the past, the story there is the backdown by John Key.

    It is fast on its way to down-voted oblivion, but stupidity like that deserves to be noticed and remembered.

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  45. jcuk (668 comments) says:

    Children! Children! this place is getting like The Standard.

    Funny about censorship on TS …. wrote one of my infrequent pieces and achieved a rebuff from the ‘Lord and Master’ Mickey Savage and another twit …. I notice that while one can reply to everybody else there is no reply available to me on MS and Twit’s contributions …. not the first time it has happened :)

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  46. kiwi in america (2,428 comments) says:

    jcuk
    Totally agree. I have rarely posted at The Stranded and so far all posts have been published including a pretty robust rebuttal I posted there over Easter when Mr. Presland felt the need to try and pick apart my lengthy essay when guest posting at Kiwiblog on why Labour is struggling. He actually pointed out a date typo regarding the pre 1996 election possible coup against Clark (you can only read your own stuff so many times before you become a bit blind to small typing errors). I made sure that when I amended the post that I hat tipped Mickey and tried to keep things factual and on message with not too much ad hominem stuff.

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  47. Psycho Milt (2,411 comments) says:

    Psycho: I have so many crosses to bear…ignorance about what an annotated bibliography might be is not one of them…

    And yet your admitted ignorance of what it even is doesn’t prevent you commenting on its value to academic work. The example of ignorance in this case is trivial, but it demonstrates a conviction that, if you don’t know what something is, it can’t be important. That is a marker of very poor judgement.

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  48. Mike Readman (363 comments) says:

    Yeah, I’m sure an ex long term employee of Merrill Lynch (now part of one of America’s largest banks) has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the great banking conspiracy. And if you don’t believe in that particular conspiracy, just look at the 1900 presidential election – McKinley and Bryan were both installed by J.P. Morgan.

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