Bob Jones on Cunliffe

July 10th, 2014 at 1:00 pm by David Farrar

Sir writes:

The Opposition’s role is to hold the Government to account plus present itself as an alternative administration.

The current conglomerate Opposition has fulfilled the first of these but not the second – Labour, in particular, failing abysmally as the polls consistently reflect.

I dislike third-term governments, as invariably they become arrogant, but we’re going to get one – and thank God, given the alternative. The absurd amalgam of Labour, the Greens, Harawira and possibly Harre and Winston is simply unfit to rule.

Well said. Labour can’t even govern itself with the factional warfare – let alone a five party coalition.

Labour’s problems directly reflect its management structure, to cite Labour MP Damien O’Connor, in allowing the party to be captured by a “gaggle of gays and unionists”. These factions control both candidate and leadership selection and have installed a discredited left-wing agenda, contrary to most of their senior MPs’ sentiments.

No Labour leader has ever been so unpopular as , evidenced by the disastrous polls and also the Reader’s Digest trustworthy survey bracketing him humiliatingly in bottom place with Dotcom and Harawira. Cunliffe was installed against the strong wishes of those who knew him best, namely Labour’s caucus, and now the public know him as well, resulting in a wider disdain.

There are a large number of Labour MPs going around saying “We tried to tell people, but they wouldn’t listen to us”

I know someone who, through much hard work, became wealthy in the last few years. He has a sentimental historic attachment to the Labour Party, as do many affluent individuals, and he was planning a six-figure donation this year, chuffed at his new-found capability to do so.

But he was outraged after hearing a Cunliffe interview following the leadership race. “Will you raise taxes on higher incomes?” Cunliffe was asked. “You betcha,” the new leader exclaimed with gusto. My acquaintance was angry for, as he said: “I’ve worked my butt off and the tone of Cunliffe’s enthusiasm to punish me for this was sickening.”

“Will you now vote National?” I teased, knowing he’d never hitherto done so. “You betcha,” he exclaimed.

Labour are planning to tax New Zealand families and businesses an extra $5 billion a year.

National is laying off Cunliffe, fearful that the caucus will remove him – but they must. As in 1990 with Mike Moore, they should persuade someone such as Annette King to lead them into the election if only to save the party.

She’s likeable, competent and a highly-effective campaigner. Most importantly, she’d recapture the women vote which deserted Labour in droves after Cunliffe was foisted on the party.

Cunliffe insulted his caucus colleagues implying any who opposed him were scabs. A scab is someone who goes against the group – the group in this case is the Labour Party, not him.

He should go with dignity for the sake of his party. The sooner they replace him and also change their management structure, the better – not just for Labour but, more importantly, for the system.

I don’t think it will happen.

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45 Responses to “Bob Jones on Cunliffe”

  1. JMS (297 comments) says:

    The only downside to this Labour implosion is that Winston First is almost guaranteed to get back into Parliament.

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  2. Zapper (925 comments) says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nzeJrXFttg

    Posted this on GD yesterday in response to the glee with which Cunliffe wants to punish the rich. Sums it up nicely, especially for a left wing show

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  3. smttc (689 comments) says:

    It’s quite an indictment when a MSM organisation publishes an article of that sort in its flagship daily as well as some of its provincial editions.

    Members of the Labour Party must be cringing.

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  4. hj (6,343 comments) says:

    “gaggle of gays and unionists”.

    who are the unionists.? I know Andrew Little is one and I heard him moowing like a cow about how NZ has always “given succour” to people in need and therefore we should put out the Open sign for boat people (although they weren’t going to get here anyway – they maintained).

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  5. PaulL (5,872 comments) says:

    If there is any truth to the story that Cunliffe won’t stand down after the election, and that the unions would support him to remain, then Robertson’s only chance at the leadership is to take it now. He can win without needing to go to the unions, and so long as the caucus support him after the election then there’s no vacancy that requires going back to the unions.

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  6. hj (6,343 comments) says:

    We need to make the break from representative democracy. Representative democracy started because we couldn’t get away from the farm and so we elected someone to represent us. These days individuals are sneaking in under a banner with their own agendas up their sleeves. We need a system where issues are presented objectively Dummies Guides with side by side versions for the public to pick and choose their support or lack of. Representatives should represent issues (their speciality). Half an idea there?

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  7. hj (6,343 comments) says:

    I was taken aback by the “you betcha” comment. As Dale Carnegie said, “if you want to gather honey, you don’t knock over the bee hive”. For one thing rich people tend to have mobile capital.

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  8. soundhill1 (41 comments) says:

    Sounds like a desperate attempt by Bob to talk voters away from a party which threatens property investment profits. When he ousted Muldoon and brought in Lange the inflation rate then played into his hands.

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  9. PaulL (5,872 comments) says:

    @hj: it’s not just about capability to make decisions, it’s about time and willingness. I personally think we’d be better off going the other way – less detail in policies and more detail on “what are our philosophies”. For example, I’m very comfortable with a National campaign that says “like how things have gone for the last 6 years? If so, vote for us.” Their policies should be “more of the same, unless something unexpected happens, in which case you know what kind of response we’re likely to come up with – you’ve seen us for the last 6 years”.

    I think Labour should campaign that way too – tell us what they believe, and ask us to trust them to continue to behave pretty much how they have for the last 6 years.

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  10. Chuck Bird (4,668 comments) says:

    “The only downside to this Labour implosion is that Winston First is almost guaranteed to get back into Parliament.”

    If NZF does not get in and National manages to stay in power with one seat each from UF and NZF who would be their coalition partner in 2017?

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  11. Reboot (82 comments) says:

    Because Annette King is a woman, women voters will flock back to Labour? Jesus Fucking Christ. Says a lot about the intelligence of women voters if that really is the case. Imagine how ridiculous it’d be if after Annette King is leader a man said well I’m voting National because they have a male leader.

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  12. PaulL (5,872 comments) says:

    @reboot: alternatively, consider that many women may not be voting Labour because they think that Cunliffe is a tool. And if they replaced him with someone else (probably anyone else, but for argument’s sake Annette King) they might come back to Labour. I’m not sure that Jones is saying they’d come back because she’s a woman, but perhaps because she’s not Cunliffe.

    @Chuck Bird: not sure that it makes a difference, surely Winston couldn’t make it through to 2017 anyway? So if that’s the case, I very much doubt NZF would be there as a coalition partner in the absence of Winston.

    National’s potential coalition partners remain those who are to the right of them (ACT and Conservatives), and those in the middle (Maori and UF). I’m assuming that Mana, Internet, Green and Labour wouldn’t be coalition partners for National, although we should never rule out a grand coalition (but not under Cunliffe – he’d rather be in opposition – and if Labour did this I’d expect their vote to crater in the subsequent election).

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  13. chris (559 comments) says:

    We have a traditional Labour-supporting friend who is a woman and is at a loss of who to vote for this time around, and it’s almost entirely because of Cunliffe. She’d never vote National, doesn’t want to vote Labour and is not interested in the other parties. I suggested she go into the voting booth, vote for the local Labour candidate and don’t party vote. She thought that was quite a good idea, but wasn’t even keen on voting for the Labour candidate. So I said go into the booth, don’t tick anything, and cast an informal vote. She thought that was an even better idea.

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  14. lastmanstanding (1,204 comments) says:

    The real problem is voters aren’t required to pass a political knowledge test and an IQ test before casting their votes. There should be a reasonably simple( and I’ll decide what is ) political knowledge test otherwise you get the uninformed voting and an IQ test ( again I’ll decide that) otherwise you get the dumb and stupid voting.

    Now if we eliminate the politically ignorant and the dumb and stupid then and only then will we have the politically informed and intelligent voting for our government.

    Now how much better governed would our country be.

    Come on you know it makes sense.

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  15. Chuck Bird (4,668 comments) says:

    “@Chuck Bird: not sure that it makes a difference, surely Winston couldn’t make it through to 2017 anyway? So if that’s the case, I very much doubt NZF would be there as a coalition partner in the absence of Winston. ”

    There is a good chance Shane Jones could lead the party. He is working good with National now.

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  16. holysheet (264 comments) says:

    Don’t worry reboot, king only needs to apologise for being a women and she will be assured of being the leader

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  17. David Garrett (6,343 comments) says:

    soundhill: Are you serious? do you have any idea what Sir Bob is actually worth??

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  18. soundhill1 (41 comments) says:

    David Garrett, I don’t know how Bob fared in the property crash or how his insurance has paid out in Christchurch. I note how the inflation rate did not drop but skyrocketed after he ousted Muldoon, and he might have pocketed a lot. How much he held on to I don’t know but I presume he is still trying to make money.

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  19. alex Masterley (1,490 comments) says:

    Soundhill,
    The consensus of opinion among my mates who deal in property is that CGT will allow them to make more money, not less.
    why? the tax rate they presently “enjoy” as property dealers will drop to the CGT level.

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  20. soundhill1 (41 comments) says:

    alex Masterley, so is Bob trying to give David a hurry along?

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  21. Sponge (141 comments) says:

    soundhill,

    I think Sir Bob, like the vast majority of New Zealanders, simply thinks that Cunliffe is a utterly useless. No grand conspiracy required.

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  22. Hugh Pavletich (59 comments) says:

    The Left has massive problems internationally … as Allister Heath explained recently in the UK Telegraph …

    Voters have had enough of bloated and dysfunctional governments – Telegraph

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10844203/Voters-have-had-enough-of-bloated-and-dysfunctional-governments.html

    Sir Bob’s suggestion that Hon Annette King would save the day is preposterous. And who cares what Hon Damien O’Connor thinks or doesn’t think.

    Like the Anglican Church, the Labour Party is heading for extinction within a generation unless it has a massive overhaul. Getting rid of political fossils such as King and O’Connor would be a minor part of that.

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  23. Tom Jackson (2,458 comments) says:

    Now if we eliminate the politically ignorant and the dumb and stupid then and only then will we have the politically informed and intelligent voting for our government.

    You realise that this would mean a perpetual left wing government, right?

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  24. Tom Jackson (2,458 comments) says:

    The Left has massive problems internationally … as Allister Heath explained recently in the UK Telegraph …

    Voters have had enough of bloated and dysfunctional governments – Telegraph

    He’s quite wrong. Voters have had enough of bloat and dysfunction everywhere, not just the public sector. Everywhere you look, public or private, there are overpaid managers who get paid no matter what havoc they wreak on the rest of society.

    Fuck up Iraq? Get a book deal.

    Fuck up the financial system? Get a government bailout.

    Fuck up your company? Get a golden handshake.

    Fuck up the government? Become a millionaire public speaker.

    Everywhere you look, the elites, the people who are entrusted with running things, have demonstrated again and again that they aren’t up to doing it. Quite why this is, I don’t know, but the usual answer is [insert your favourite political hobgoblin here].

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  25. OneTrack (2,579 comments) says:

    lastmanstanding – “Now if we eliminate the politically ignorant and the dumb and stupid ”

    No the hard left are too good at the political game – that seems to be all they do.

    How about we eliminate the economically ignorant, dumb and stupid. Anybody who thinks the Prime Minister pays the minimum wage out of s money bin under the beehive is excluded for a start. Anybody who thinks you can promise everybody you come across whatever they want, and that tax/rates won’t go up would alsi be excluded. That excludes Len Brown and David Cunliffe for a start.

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  26. WineOh (547 comments) says:

    @ Tom- if you think we have a genuinely right wing government here, you need to take a serious look at things from an objective standpoint. This government supports:
    * Universal healthcare
    * No Fault ACC system
    * Universal superannuation
    * Significant social support for unemployed and low-income households
    * Extremely generous family support for working families
    * Strong oversight of financial sector (who, by the way, have not f***ed up the the financial system in NZ)
    * Free education up to Secondary school, and hugely subsidised tertiary education
    * Presided over the implementation of same-sex

    An besides that, have demonstrated an excellent evenhanded management of the economy in the most trying financial times since the Great Depression, implemented significant positive legislative law reform and produced steadily reducing crime stats.

    If you looked at virtually any government system outside of Scandinavia it would be considered strongly left-wing.

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  27. soundhill1 (41 comments) says:

    Sponge: Cunliffe utterly useless in that he will not be able to action CGT?

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  28. Mark (1,360 comments) says:

    There are a large number of Labour MPs going around saying “We tried to tell people, but they wouldn’t listen to us”

    DPF this statement of yours may be true today but wont be after the election

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  29. Mark (1,360 comments) says:

    Bob as inciteful as ever. The leadership selection process agreed to by Labour will ensure its ongoing slide to oblivion.

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  30. dime (9,391 comments) says:

    soundhill – pretty sure bob makes a lot more money when labour is in. all those thousands of extra public piggies needed bobs office space.

    wellington cbd isnt exactly thriving under national

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  31. PaulL (5,872 comments) says:

    @Mark: “inciteful”. Funny, and appropriate. But you may have meant insightful.

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  32. publicwatchdog (2,094 comments) says:

    Bob Jones, by setting up the NZ Party and taking votes off National, enabled the Labour Party to take power in 1984 and implement their neo-liberal ‘Rogernomics’ policies for the 1%. How much money did Bob Jones make out of ‘Rogernomics’? Like to tell us Bob? Penny Bright

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  33. Fisiani (945 comments) says:

    If Labour’s vote plummets then were does it go? That’s the great unknown. National really has to go all out for these votes and change ingrained voting habits and create new ones. I see evidence of this in the Chinese and Korean communities. The huge gathering of Pacific Island community leaders in South Auckland at a National function recently was impressive. The Indian community is moving from Labour to National and I sense that many who are not able to shift to the Force may not even vote. We just have to convince people that a strong government is better than a pitifully weak and divided extremist one and that a vote of over 50% is their duty.

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  34. Harriet (4,502 comments) says:

    Dime#

    “….pretty sure bob makes a lot more money when labour is in. all those thousands of extra public piggies needed bobs office space…..”

    I think Bob once alluded to that being the case:

    “Everything just bubbles along when labour is in office…..then the bubble bursts……and the bill comes in.” He once said something like that.

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  35. Reid (15,917 comments) says:

    Have you ever noticed the left seem to get more than their fair share of egoists. That is, those people who care more about their own needs than those inside or outside their own party, which they takeover and infest like a parasite since, to them, it’s merely a vehicle by which to achieve their own ends and the only time they ever show any caring for it is when their true motives are in danger of being uncovered?

    Isn’t that peculiar…

    And very sad…

    …for them.

    Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

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  36. peterwn (3,148 comments) says:

    I sort of agree with Penny. Bob supported National in 2008 and I think NZ First in 2011. I suspect he would to have wanted to support Labour in 2014 but they are in no fit state. A smooth operator can benefit nicely from changes in government.

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  37. Sponge (141 comments) says:

    “Cunliffe utterly useless in that he will not be able to action CGT?”

    Well not as leader (or ex leader) of her majesties loyal opposition….

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  38. Fisiani (945 comments) says:

    CathDelahunty? @CathDelahuntyMP · 3h
    Maybe old colonialist notions of “beyond reasonable doubt” and “jury trials” need to be done away with when it is about crimes against women

    Seems it not just Labour who are completely nuts.

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  39. labrator (1,745 comments) says:

    @fisiani I think you’ll find that’s, fortunately, a parody account https://twitter.com/CathDelahuntyMP/status/487151041985933312

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  40. soundhill1 (41 comments) says:

    alex Masterley wrote: “The consensus of opinion among my mates who deal in property is that CGT will allow them to make more money, not less.
    why? the tax rate they presently “enjoy” as property dealers will drop to the CGT level.”

    I wrote: “alex Masterley, so is Bob trying to give David a hurry along?”

    Spomge wrote: “I think Sir Bob, like the vast majority of New Zealanders, simply thinks that Cunliffe is a utterly useless. No grand conspiracy required.”

    I wrote:“Cunliffe utterly useless in that he will not be able to action CGT?”

    Sponge wrote: “Well not as leader (or ex leader) of her majesties loyal opposition….”

    I’m not quite sure of your meaning, Sponge. Why does it have to have been a conspiracy when the inflation rate went so high after Bob installed David Lange?

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  41. soundhill1 (41 comments) says:

    I feel Shane Jones and a number of National MPs have had a rather effective almost McCarthyist campaign against the Greens. It has very cleverly left Labour without the solid basis that Helen Clark and Alliance’Green was. So Labour are in an extremely difficult position. The public may not be ready for Labour’s responsible approach to the economy. The public just want National’s borrow, sell off and spend-up, now, and let the future pay, financially and environmentally.

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  42. Psycho Milt (2,258 comments) says:

    Shouldn’t this post be titled “Wealthy right-wing property developer in ‘supports National’ shock?”

    I know someone who, through much hard work, became wealthy in the last few years. He has a sentimental historic attachment to the Labour Party, as do many affluent individuals, and he was planning a six-figure donation this year, chuffed at his new-found capability to do so.

    But he was outraged after hearing a Cunliffe interview following the leadership race. “Will you raise taxes on higher incomes?” Cunliffe was asked. “You betcha,” the new leader exclaimed with gusto. My acquaintance was angry for, as he said: “I’ve worked my butt off and the tone of Cunliffe’s enthusiasm to punish me for this was sickening.”

    Bob Jones knows a long-time Labour supporter who is “outraged” that a Labour government would raise the tax rates on income over $150,000? Well, I guess that”s totally plausible and I totally believe he’s telling the truth. After all, I personally know a bunch of long-time National supporters who were absolutely furious that the Key government lowered taxes for the wealthy, and promptly changed their allegiance to Labour…

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  43. Pete George (22,773 comments) says:

    The public just want National’s borrow, sell off and spend-up, now, and let the future pay, financially and environmentally.

    That may be sort of true about this term but National have no more plans to “sell off” and have a clear intent to limit spending increases and get back into surplus to allow them to pay off debt.

    A sizable chunk of the public seem comfortable with that approach. And they have concerns that a Labour led government with big Green influence and possibly also Alliance AKA Internet Party and Mana would tax much more (Labour have already indicated significant increases in tax on their own) and spend much more.

    That’s the crux of this election, apart from Key being generally fairly well liked and Cunliffe being fairly generally disliked and/or not trusted.

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  44. william blake (106 comments) says:

    Spoken with the impartiality of a property developer facing a capital gains tax.

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  45. soundhill1 (41 comments) says:

    Pete George wrote: “That may be sort of true about this term but National have no more plans to “sell off” and have a clear intent to limit spending increases and get back into surplus to allow them to pay off debt. ”

    So what will they do about the tax cuts they are borrowing to fund?

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