General Debate 14 July 2014

July 14th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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178 Responses to “General Debate 14 July 2014”

  1. lilman (960 comments) says:

    Neighbours cows starting to calve,its all on again,good luck farmers.

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  2. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    0-0 at halftime

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  3. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    And best wishes for Bastille Day to our French friends.

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  4. doggone7 (808 comments) says:

    lilman – especially the ones around here with all that water covering their paddocks.

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  5. lilman (960 comments) says:

    lol,cant believe people wish another group bad luck for trying to get ahead and make something for themselves and New Zealand,must vote Green you would think?

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  6. Yvette (2,823 comments) says:

    Rodney Hide tells of a case of a sexual assault on a woman by a high profile kiwi who has since been charged and fined and now has name suppression and discharged without a conviction. This nonsense has to stop. Rodney calls for this man to be named and comments that many in parliament and the wider community know who he is.

    So although Tania Billingsley was apparently the intended victim of a Malaysian diplomat rapist and her carefully prepared essay is all about a New Zealand rape culture, is she still not right? More “representatives of the people” should be resigning for indifference?

    However will we somehow need Parliament to have Labour’s 50-50 gender balance until they can tell us, under privilege, about the Queenstown man who Rodney Hide speaks of?

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  7. Paul Marsden (998 comments) says:

    Wonderful to see those members of the Erebus, body recovery team at last been publicly acknowledged on last night’s TV1 doco. I’ve seen my fair share of death and broken bodies during my time in the emergency services, but nothing of course on the unimaginable scale and horror, these men had to endure. I just pray they have all found comfort and peace in their lives. NZ salutes you.

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  8. flipper (4,083 comments) says:

    Clean rivers?????

    Like apple pie with cheese, and motherhood.

    But will it impress and convert Waitakereman, or South Auckland as much as it impresses the wet behind the ears media children??

    NO!

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  9. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    lilman: The ones you mention will vote Green/Labour, either be unemployable, or public servants, and will be envious of anyone with anything, because they are too lazy and useless to ever be, or have anything, apart from what those they envy, pay them via taxes.

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  10. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Yvette, now pause for the moment. if the diplomat incident had been under a Labour government.how would you be arguing..
    Rather obvious isn’t it.!

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  11. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Surely not another forum on the political set-up by McCarten, Manning, and Logie, of this Malaysian. Time we all took a good look at the complainant, maybe it was the initiator.

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  12. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    Anyone have the odds on the herald or stuff nominating billingsley as New Zealander of the year?

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  13. freemark (581 comments) says:

    This is why we have a little bit of child poverty in NZ. Notice the way it is written however – it’s always “the booze”, or some other reason. NEVER the fact that some people are just plain unfit, or stupid, or have been suckered in by the Socialists. FFS
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/10263117/Booze-took-her-11-kids-and-nearly-her-life

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  14. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    It was excellent to see Ms Collins provide a softened approach and state very strongly yesterday that both she and Key are furious over the handling of the Malaysian ‘sex attack’ incident.

    I am glad that Key has taken the only sensible and possible approach to handling this story proving his ability to assess public opinion well yet again. Constant attacks on the alleged victim because of her political views can only work against the government, and Key is astute and clever enough to know that. Pity same can’t be said for some of his supporters – at least DPF has had the good sense not to go down the same path as Whaleoil – who has just provided more fuel to the fire (file) by proving that the government may have known about the victims political views – allowing some to speculate that perhaps the mismanagement in the case may have been deliberate or at least a ‘who cares about her’ situation. I’m sure it wasn’t, its a view that at least John Key is intelligent enough to know, that it is not good for National if it is mooted in the media.

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  15. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    So Thorpe comes out of the closet.

    Years ago the response would have been negative. Like … Gross. The faggot makes me sick etc etc

    Of course the media would be all over that telling us what pricks we are etc.

    So now in one last attempt to stay relevant he finally comes out. The response is.. Who cares.

    Front page of the sydney morning herald is an article that tells us that response is wrong too. Because they are teens who haven’t come out yet and this Is important to them.. I say get fucked.

    Equality is people not giving a shit.

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  16. Colville (2,272 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/books/10262276/Singapore-bans-gay-themed-childrens-book

    There is a fulla that comments on here that quite likes that Singapore place huh? Figures I suppose.

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  17. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ igm (1,373 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 8:27 am

    Wow, still blaming the victim Igm – do you not trust our police force enough to have already done a competent investigation into the incident?

    The fact they discovered that man ‘broke’ into the house (hence the burglary charge) might be a bit hard for you to overcome in your attempts to blame the victim though.

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  18. Colville (2,272 comments) says:

    Judith @ 8.48.

    I thought he was invited in but refused to leave?

    He also waited for Police to arrive when they were called. ?

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  19. prosper (168 comments) says:

    I think you will find a significant number of women from Remuera, Matakana, Grey Lyn, Epsom, Herne Bay, My Eden etc like clean rivers and quietly vote Greens.

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  20. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Colville, interesting remembering that Singapore is quite fond of their lady boys culture.!

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  21. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Argentina vs Germany full time 0 all.

    30 minutes extra time.

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  22. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Where have you seen that reported Colville?

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  23. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Colville (2,032 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 8:52 am

    Well clearly what you think and what the police think are two different things. You need to check the definition of burglary.

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  24. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    prosper – “I think you will find a significant number of women from Remuera, Matakana, Grey Lyn, Epsom, Herne Bay, My Eden etc like clean rivers and quietly vote Greens.”

    You mean the ones that will be whining loudly when the price of petrol for their Remuera Tractors goes through the roof when the Carbon Tax goes on and the exchange rate falls through the floor?

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  25. Colville (2,272 comments) says:

    Judith.
    Burglary can be being on the wrong side of a very minimal fence.
    You dont need to be in a building and you certianly dont need to force entry.

    PG. Not sure. I have tried looking and not found it. Annoying.

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  26. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    prosper (129 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 8:54 am
    I think you will find a significant number of women…

    yes, Green is very much the ‘new blue’ – but not only do a significant number of women vote green, a significant number of women will declare to their husbands and others they vote one way, only to vote something completely different in the voting booth.

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  27. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    In igm pathetic little world if a muslin attempts to rape and rob a green, thats all right,but if it was a blue rinse national from epson,you would be calling for this raping leecher raghead to be dragged back to NZ and put on trial

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  28. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Colville (2,033 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 9:05 am

    Burglary is being in a building (ship, enclosure etc) unauthorised. That is without permission.

    He would not have been charged with that offence if the victim had wanted him there. He was clearly there without authority, which adds credence to the claim that he was there with the intent to commit a crime.

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  29. flipper (4,083 comments) says:

    prosper (129 comments) says:

    July 14th, 2014 at 8:54 am
    ****

    You simply demonstrate that there is not necessarily a correlation between nice areas and digs, and brains.

    Should those idiot red melons, for whom you infer support, ever get near the Treasury benches, I doubt that you will prosper…and all those “rich pricks” might find they and their life style are substantially the poorer – notwithstanding that they probably work harder, and save harder, than any of the half-wit sack cloth and ashes mob.

    A little more applied thought Prosper, and you will, perhaps, continue to prosper. :-)

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  30. questions (208 comments) says:

    stephieboy says:
    “Yvette, now pause for the moment. if the diplomat incident had been under a Labour government.how would you be arguing..
    Rather obvious isn’t it.!”

    If it had happened under a Labour government we wouldn’t have had McCully there trying to sweep it all under the carpet.

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  31. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ lurcher1948 (37 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 9:08 am

    Yep, such is the power of an election year – no one can see anything for what it is, but rather what it means for the ‘team’. Bring on October – then we can get to whinging about the new melting pot government (which will no doubt be National lead, but minority controlled).

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  32. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    There is a fulla that comments on here that quite likes that Singapore place huh?

    I didn’t know John Key commented here.

    What’s his handle?

    Quote

    Key is particularly taken with Singapore, where he says “there are few half-measures and no one rests on their laurels” and which he says runs its economy like a business: a goal, a plan and a set of policies to get there. Singapore’s aim is to find high-value niches. So should this country’s be.

    http://www.colinjames.co.nz/john-keys-radical-message-from-bold-singapore/

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  33. flipper (4,083 comments) says:

    Heh Judith…..

    You say: ” …. a significant number of women will declare to their husbands and others they vote one way, only to vote something completely different in the voting booth.”

    Are you implying that they fear family violence and need to lie for self protection ? Is that the latest form of “abuse” ?

    Come, come ….. :-)

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  34. freemark (581 comments) says:

    Interesting how some people go from no faith in the Police, to all faith in the Police, depending on their leanings towards the alleged victim & alleged offender…

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  35. prosper (168 comments) says:

    Judith that’s why I said quietly as the main income earner in the family would be furious if he knew his wife/ partner was knee capping his efforts to provide an SUV, overseas holidays, maids,private education and a second home by voting green. More emotion than reason.

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  36. david (2,557 comments) says:

    Checking http://www.flightradar24.com/-36.77,173.24/7 last week to see progress on the arrival of the new Dreamliner and noticed a private jet heading to Queenstown. A bit later it headed back to Auckland (maybe Ardmore but I’m not sure).
    Now who from up this way was known to be heading south?
    Has the nice Mr Cunnliffe been shouted a trip?
    or was it that poor Mr Dotcom who has his assets frozen but can still scrape up $4 mill to fund a political party?
    Is it co-incidence that DC and KDC are both in the same resort town at the same time?
    Is it appropriate for the chief representative of the “worker’s party” to be slumming in the most expensive resort town in the country during an election campaign and does the fact that he is indicate that he has no concept of what it means to really act the part?

    Aaaaah so many questions, so few answers.

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  37. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Wow, still blaming the victim Igm – do you not trust our police force enough to have already done a competent investigation into the incident? ”

    “I used to look up to and trust the police, but not anymore, now I wouldn’t trust them two yards.” Water taxi driver Guy Wallace’s father.

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  38. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ prosper (130 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 9:16 am

    Yes, we females are a fickle lot. We tend to vote with the heart, whilst the males vote with the pocket. Still, at least that provides balance, and one would expect between the two, get some sort of governance that covered all in society – unless of course you are advocating that men are more important, and therefore should be more powerful and that women should not be considered equal? (If you are thinking like that, this is the blog to do it on – they just love sexism here).

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  39. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    freemark (422 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 9:15 am

    Anyone that is so fixated that they consider a blanket block is not objective. Each case needs to be taken by its individual merits. In this situation the alleged offender remained in a property that he was not authorised to be in, thus it indicates he is at least guilty of the crime of burglary.

    We know this for sure because the police were called to remove the man from the property. That information was provided by witness/s other than the police. The calling of the police, if nothing else must have given him a reasonable idea that he was not authorised to be there.

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  40. freemark (581 comments) says:

    So the latest fear-mongering/pandering to the ignorant is the “swim in the rivers & oceans” bleat. I don’t think there is a single river or beach in NZ where I wouldn’t quite confidently take my kids swimming – mainly in summer of course. The biggest risk by far is from human shit, not industrial or farming pollution. Under the Greens no one would be able to access these rivers & beaches anyway – unless they were close enough to get to by walking, horse & cart, cycling or public transport. Unless of course one was part of the 0.05% Socialist Elite, who would have their own fleet of Zil Limousines or similar…

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  41. freemark (581 comments) says:

    “Come in and have another drink/cup of tea while I slip into something more comfortable then call 111″

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  42. flipper (4,083 comments) says:

    Prosper….

    OK.. Good thorts….. well said.

    I also like my “Remuera Tractor”!

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  43. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    flipper (3,471 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 9:15 am

    Not claiming anything of the sort Flipper, at least not from my experience, although it would never surprise me that some cultures have men who insist their ‘women’ vote a particular way.

    Some women do like to feel they have a little power over their own lives, especially those that live on means provided by their husbands. I’ve known the odd women who has placed a vote to ‘spite’ the old boy, simply because she didn’t want him to be right about his predictions, and knew she’d have to live with his boasting about being right. There are many reasons women do what they want, rather than what their husbands advise.

    My mother always refused to tell my father who she had voted for – citing that a lady never discussed her political persuasion. I know this was because she always voted in a way that cancelled out my fathers vote – something she thought was hilarious.

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  44. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Germany 1 Argentine 0 in exra time

    .Full time

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  45. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    flipper (3,471 comments) says:
    Should those idiot red melons, for whom you infer support, ever get near the Treasury benches, I doubt that you will prosper…and all those “rich pricks” might find they and their life style are substantially the poorer – notwithstanding that they probably work harder, and save harder, than any of the half-wit sack cloth and ashes mob.
    ……….

    Economic underperformance

    New Zealand’s economy was one of the worse performing of the twentieth century. Angus
    Maddison, the great historian of global macroeconomic trends, estimated that in 1913, on
    the eve of World War One, per capita incomes in New Zealand were among the two or three
    highest in the world, rivalling those in the United States and Australia3. A country’s per capita
    income rank 100 years ago is a reasonable predictor of where that country ranks today: for
    the most part, countries that were very rich then still are today4. But New Zealand is one of

    http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/research_and_publications/seminars_and_workshops/Mar2013/5200823.pdf

    Savings Working Group
    January 2011

    “The big adverse gap in productivity between New Zealand and other countries opened up from the 1970s to the early 1990s. The policy choice that increased immigration – given the number of employers increasingly unable to pay First-World wages to the existing population and all the capital requirements that increasing populations involve – looks likely to have worked almost directly against the adjustment New Zealand needed to make and it might have been better off with a lower rate of net immigration. This adjustment would have involved a lower real interest rate (and cost of capital) and a lower real exchange rate, meaning a more favourable environment for raising the low level of productive capital per worker and labour productivity. The low level of capital per worker is a striking symptom of New Zealand’s economic challenge.

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/reviews-consultation/savingsworkinggroup/pdfs/swg-report-jan11.pdf

    There is a danger that a sector of the economy is being augmented that is totally reliant on a
    small domestic economy. Not only do these industries have limited potential for per-capita
    growth but ‘deriving growth via factor inputs such as labour places pressure on infrastructure
    such as transport and land supply, and ultimately have a further negative impact on growth
    (ARC 2005). Finally, as the sector gets larger, it gains in lobbying/political strength and can
    lobby for immigration regardless if it is the best interests of the economy as a whole. This
    could be seen in Canada where the development industry has lobbied hard for high sustained
    immigration levels (Ley and Tutchener 2001).

    Dr Greg Clydesdale Growing Pains (How vested interests subvert government action).

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  46. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    freemark (424 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 9:28 am
    “Come in and have another drink/cup of tea while I slip into something more comfortable then call 111″

    For what reason freemark?
    Are you suggesting that the ‘alleged victim’ is lying, and deliberately tried to trap the diplomat knowing full well that McCully’s crew would stuff up the management of the case and therefore give the left something to throw at the government.

    My god – you take conspiracy theorizing to new levels !!!

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  47. Tauhei Notts (1,723 comments) says:

    My mate from Buenos Aires is suffering from a Goetze Ache.
    Any suggestions what medication he should have.

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  48. david (2,557 comments) says:

    Judith, your mother must have had a nasty vindictive streak if her depth of political thinking was how to cancel your father’s (I note you didn’t refer to him as her husband) preference.

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  49. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    david (2,523 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 9:40 am

    Because it is correct when using a parental term such as mother, to use the term ‘father’ in the same context.

    It also clarify’s the fact that my mother’s husband was also my parent, which is not always the case.

    There was nothing nasty or vindictive about it, she simply did not support the same political party. My father used to make much of the fact he had given his party of preference a vote which would have contributed to their result over the other party. My mother thought it was funny that her vote had cancelled his out. That wasn’t the reason she voted that way – her family was Tory through and through – nothing would have made her change her vote. My father did change his political bias on the odd occasion.

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  50. Griff (7,798 comments) says:

    For freemark and others who dont have the skills to use the web critically.
    Free mark just about killed me with laughter with his link to absolute rubbish yesterday.

    Thinking Critically about World Wide Web Resources

    The World Wide Web has a lot to offer, but not all sources are equally valuable or reliable. Here are some points to consider.
    Who is the audience?
    What is the purpose of the Web Page and what does it contain?
    How complete and accurate are the information and the links provided?
    What is the relative value of the Web site in comparison to the range of information resources available on this topic? (
    What other resources (print and non-print) are available in this area?
    What are the date(s) of coverage of the site and site-specific documents?
    How comprehensive is this site?
    What are the link selection criteria if any?
    Are the links relevant and appropriate for the site?
    Is the site inward-focused, pointing outward, or both?
    Is there an appropriate balance between inward-pointing links (inlinks i.e., within the same site) and outward-pointing links (outlinks i.e., to other sites)?
    Are the links comprehensive or do they just provide a sampler?
    What do the links offer that is not easily available in other sources?
    Are the links evaluated in any way?
    Is there an appropriate range of Internet resources — e.g., links to relevant blogs, wikis, databases, etc.?
    Are there social networking or user-initiated options, such as tagging, blogs or wikis, with the ability to post, and an RSS feed?
    How valuable is the information provided in the Web Page (intrinsic value)?
    For discipline-based sites…
    Does the site claim to represent a group, an organization, an institution, a corporation or a governmental body?
    Does the site offer a selected list of resources in a particular discipline or field or does it claim to offer a complete list?
    Does the site claim to describe or provide the results of research or scholarly effort?
    Are sufficient references provided to other works, to document hypotheses, claims or assertions?
    Are references cited fully?
    Can the results be refuted or verified through other means–e.g., by use of library-related research tools?
    Is any sort of third-party financial or other support or sponsorship evident?
    Is advertising included at the site, and if so, has it had an impact on the content?
    Does the site combine educational, research and scholarly information with commercial or non-commercial product or service marketing?
    If the site is a simulation of an existing or historical area, how accurately is it depicted?
    Who is overseeing this site?
    What sort of expertise do they have?
    How do they determine and ensure accuracy?

    Source and Date
    Who is the author or sponsor?
    What is the authority or expertise of the individual or group that created this site?
    How knowledgeable is the individual or group on the subject matter of the site?
    Is the site sponsored or co-sponsored by an individual or group that has created other Web sites?
    Is the site officially or unofficially sponsored or supported by particular groups, organizations, institutions, corporations or governmental bodies?
    Can the researchers, scholars, groups, organizations, institutions, corporations or governmental bodies listed as authors, sponsors or supporters, be verified as such, and what are their qualifications?
    Is any sort of bias evident?
    How up to date are the links?
    How reliable are the links; are there blind links, or references to sites which have moved?
    Is contact information for the author or sponsor provided?
    Is there an About page, and if so, how informative and accurate is it?

    Edited from http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/college/thinking-critically-about-world-wide-web-resources

    Have fun KB commentaryiat I am off on a holiday sans access to the internet for the rest of the week.

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  51. freemark (581 comments) says:

    Mere speculation..plenty of people have judged the alleged offender guilty already. When we are seeing on a daily basis jack up stories desperately trying to embarrass the Govt, and we have such a stage managed performance by groups with a political/sexual agenda we could be crazy not to look deeper into the story. Especially of course when the whole situation could be slanted to support any current story of “rape culture”. Not to mention a Govt Ministry with a hatred for their Minister, and a history of undermining, leaking & white anting…..

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  52. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    First world problems:

    Fire Service rescue 220kg man after fall

    Firefighters have rescued a 220-kilogram man who fell in the shower and became stuck.

    On Thursday, six firefighters lifted a 320kg woman from her home after removing a window to get her out.

    They had removed the front sliding door but she would not fit, so they took out the window.

    The 54-year-old Canterbury woman – and the mattress she lay on – were placed on a loader and carried to a waiting ambulance after an almost two-hour effort.

    The woman was driven to Christchurch Hospital, where eight firemen carried her inside.

    Canterbury fire brigades were called to lift the morbidly obese on a monthly basis, the Fire Service said.

    Steven Kelly, from Christchurch Weightloss Surgery, said a lack of government funding meant hundreds of people who could benefit from weight-loss surgery were being turned away.

    Oh dear – why is the answer always more taxpayer money?

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  53. freemark (581 comments) says:

    Says Griff who still believes the “97% support” fallacy….

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  54. Lance (2,662 comments) says:

    So like what happens if this Malaysian diplomat is found innocent?

    Would open up some bloody interesting issues.

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  55. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    Bastille Day.When the French celebrate the murder of their own citizens.

    They can shove it.

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  56. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    lurcher: Go take your prosac, you are out of control. Bet you still have not got a drivers’ licence!

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  57. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    If the Malaysian diplomat had been a founder of Wikileaks he’d be being defended by the Greens.

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  58. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ freemark (426 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 9:46 am

    Welcome to the world Conspiracy Theorist!

    So you are claiming that it was a complete set up – are you also claiming that McCully’s crew were complicit in the issue and that it was organised for them to stuff up the management of the case so that it would ‘hit’ the news and discredit the government.

    That :
    1. The victim, along with McCully’s crew, sorted out a diplomat to target…
    2. Encouraged diplomat back to the house
    3. Called the police
    4. Provided evidence to the police to encourage them to lay charges
    5. Encouraged the diplomat to then flee the country
    6. Encouraged the Malaysian government to say no, then yes, then no to extradition,
    7. Then McCully, working with the victim, mismanaged his part, because he wanted to be criticised by the media in an election year…
    8. The victim then sought name suppression, with the intention of then having that cancelled

    So in essence you are claiming that the victim, Logie, McCully, McCully’s crew, the Malaysian Government, and the Greens and other leftie parties, were all working together, so they could have a go at McCully.

    WOW, just friggin WOW!!

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  59. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Judith: Like all losing lefties you are an expert on everything. I suppose you live off taxpayers, have a State house, and leech everything you can for no effort.

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  60. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ freemark (the Conspiracy Theorist Extraordinaire)

    I know freemark – you could add to your theory that the Malaysians went along with it because they wanted to have a go at the government for providing assistance to look for the plane they had lost and to draw the attention away from that!!! That would explain why they were happy to work with the victim, Logie, McCully, McCully’s crew, the Greens et al… :P

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  61. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    igm (1,376 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 10:06 am

    Actually quite the opposite igm. I live off my own means, work from home on contract and also assist in running a family business (2 actually), jointly own our home and a family holiday home. So, what is your excuse for being on here, or doesn’t what you do matter, only what I do ?

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  62. Northland Wahine (667 comments) says:

    Nostradamus at 9:47 am.

    This is what I don’t get. If this woman is that obese and can’t move, who the fuck feeds her? Charge them with attempted manslaughter!

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  63. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    If the Malaysian diplomat had been a founder of Wikileaks he’d be being defended by the Greens.

    Not necessarily the Greens, they are probably too staunch supportings victims of sexual assaults, but by left wing activists. See this support of Assange and accusations against the alleged victims at The Standard, led by lprent.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/marianne-ny-making-an-arse-of-swedish-law/

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  64. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    Green support depends on how much potential damage is done to American interests.

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  65. freemark (581 comments) says:

    McCully & the Malaysian Govt don’t have to be involved to make your scenario somewhat plausible Judith, and stranger things have happened.
    I didn’t watch the 3 Degrees show..did the alleged victim mention that she was part of an activist group of Femmes?
    Why was she dressed & made up so radically different to her appearance in every other photo of her in the last few years?
    Was was it not mentioned that she had prior connections to Logie?
    Why is the focus of her & her supporters’ statements the resignation of McCully rather than a court appearance?
    Why has her online presence been sanitised?
    Valid questions IMO..

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  66. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Righto…taking a deep breath…

    Front page story on Stuff: two totally innocent Maori women are supposedly “profiled” when suspected of shoplifting at their local Pak n Save…The “profiling” consisted of identifying the suspects by their race and gender, and their location in the store…the management is falling over themselves to apologise for this “outrageous” incident…

    Think about this for a minute…surely “profiling” , i.e singling out members of a certain race/religion/age is different from identifying someone by one or more of those criteria? Would there have been any of this hoo haa if I had been the suspect, and identified as “the portly middle aged guy with grey hair”?? Or to take another hypothetical, the tall thin guy, or the woman with a number one haircut?

    I suppose I should come clean and say I think “profiling” is perfectly sensible too…why search little old ladies at airport check ins when any terrorist is 100 times more likely to be a young man of swarthy appearance ?

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  67. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    “Profiling” is just another word used by those with an agenda, usually race but invariably left wing, to prevent a common sense approach to crime prevention.

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  68. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Kowtow: Yep, that’s pretty much my take on it…From the other side, I can readily see the frustration of – say – a black professional who is “stopped for driving black”….but I’m not sure that happens here … Maori commenters may have a different view…

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  69. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    Says Griff whose name links to Sceptical Science. The website of John Cook ( the books) who isn’t even a Climate Scientist.
    And before you state the usual lie that I link to “denialist” websites I don’t. I link to institutions like NOAA or Peer Review publishing mags line “Nature”.
    You accuse everyone else of cognitive dissonance when you are the most guilty. That and psychological projection.

    When are you going to realise we all accept CO2 is a greenhouse gas and causes warming but we don’t accept the second part. Which is the hypothesis that extra warming is created by positive feedback and radiative forcing. And that nature balances that feedback ( if it exists) out through various mechanisms ( oceans, clouds, El Niño. PDO etc etc and negates any extra warming.
    Which is why we are not seeing catastrophic runaway warming.
    That aside, all the data points to it going to get cold post 2018. We may not see an El Niño this year either.
    Must go, lunch at the Germans! Cold meats, sauerkraut and sausage. Beer and schnapps . Yum. Don’t wait up.

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  70. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    DG – ya beat me to it. How the f*ck was that profiling?

    It was a description.

    example. if they were after dime they would be saying “the big blonde guy who looks awesome in aisle 3″

    if it were profiling it would have been

    “all staff on look out, 2 fat maoris spotted getting out of their holden and approaching the store. we expect they are here to steal shit”

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  71. Northland Wahine (667 comments) says:

    Good morning David and I too saw the story.

    However, they were targeted the way they were, for the reason they are Maori. And I doubt very much in the same situation, ie, a supermarket, that a portly middle age gentleman or a woman with a number one haircut, would have been targeted. They announced it on the intercom for goodness sake.

    Profile all they want. But they could have handled that situation so much better…

    For example, last school holidays I brought munchies for my son and grandchildren from a supermarket before going into the cinema. I paid at the self check out and with cash and it gave me my receipt. The transaction came up as an error so I made eye contact with one of the supervisor operators that hover. She smiled and waved me thru. Just as I got to the door, another operator approached me from behind, demanding I return to pay for my items. Luckily I had my receipt in my hand with the change but that wasn’t good enough. She grabbed my arm and I can assure if my little ones were not with me I would have smacked the bitch there and then. I followed her back to the checkout where she proceeded to tip my shipping out and accounted for everything. “Oh ok, you can go” was all I got.

    At that point I asked for an apology which was mumbled. I gave her a barrage of insults and suggested that she was damn lucky that the movie started in 10 mins and I had already purchased our cinema tickets. The supervisor came over apologising but it was too late for me.

    Now, my friend. You know how I dress, how pale my skin is. But do still look Maori. And yeah. I believe if I was obviously white and middle class, I would not have been approached in that manner.

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  72. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ freemark (427 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 10:17 am

    Then what possible incentive would she have had, or what benefit would there have been out of it, unless the matter became public. The only reason it became public was because McCully’s crew stuffed up.

    Had that not occurred then there was nothing that could be made into an issue. Neither the victim nor Logie had any way of knowing the diplomat would enforce his status and skip the country, nor that the Malaysian government would take the stance they did.

    Regardless of who the victim had previous contact with – that does not excuse the alleged crime, or can it explain any motives. You are stretching it a bit too far if you expect everyone to believe that the alleged victim and Logie were able to influence McCully, his staff and the Malaysian government – because without them, you don’t have any motive at all for them orchestrating the whole thing.

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  73. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Good Morning Wahine…By Gad I’ll have to take the cat to you when I next see you for disagreeing with me!!

    Yes, I quite agree that what happened to you probably happened because you look (a bit) Maori….and that’s very sad, and must be hugely annoying for you..and I also agree the supermarket staff handled it very poorly (mainly in that they tipped these girls off, and they immediately dropped whatever they had lifted!)

    I used to do security in a bottle store when I was a student…If the floor staff made it too obvious that they had spotted a “lifter” whatever had been slipped into the bag would be quickly slipped out again…we would go down the aisle later and pick the bottle of bourbon – it was so often bourbon – from where it had been dropped among the white wines…but I digress..

    OK, let’s say I WAS the suspect, and had been seen slipping some rib eye steak up my jumper…In an aisle with half a dozen others in it how else would they identify me other than “the middle aged guy with the short grey hair”?? And if the suspect had been you, how else would they identify you other than “the short curvy Maori woman”??

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  74. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    “Anticipating tomorrows final – Lionel Messi never dives.”

    Lionel Messi is dead

    Sack the minister of police

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  75. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (6,186 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 10:22 am

    Of course profiling occurs, and those that claim it doesn’t are dreaming. It is a proven efficient way of sorting out potential criminals. Police are ‘profilling’ when they drive the streets looking for criminal activity. They aren’t going to stop and observe a group of 60 year olds standing on a street corner because experience dictates they are probably not breaking the law, however, law of average and experience dictates that if that group is under 25 years of age, and its at night, either alcohol, drugs or crime is involved.

    Profiling is another word for commonsense – it is not racist, although certain groups do appear in criminal profiling more than others – it is merely an efficient means of reducing time spent by targeting situations in which crime frequently occurs.

    Sure its not nice – and makes many social statements about society – but then neither is having your stuff stolen and being beaten whilst getting your mail.

    However, the danger comes in when complete races are targeted – the statistics and experience does not implicate entire races for criminal activity – and such action does border on racism.

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  76. Northland Wahine (667 comments) says:

    My friend, the only cat you’ll take to me is that gorgeous bundle of fur, Sudis! :)

    It wasn’t the description that was a concern or the fact that one is profiled. It’s the handling of the situation. And in my case and in this young Maori woman’s case… They fucked up. Pure and simple. Even if it turns out that this woman has a history of shop lifting, it still should have been handled differently.

    However I can imagine the local population will make them pay. I predict the supermarkets shop lifting rate will go thru the roof in retaliation. Not condoning it if it does, but it sure in the hell wouldn’t surprise me.

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  77. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    “By Gad I’ll have to take the cat to you when I next see you for disagreeing with me!!”

    Dime will watch

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  78. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    Judith – no ones arguing profiling doesnt happen. but in that case it doesnt sound like profiling. just a description.

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  79. Nostalgia-NZ (5,220 comments) says:

    ‘Historic’ is something noted in history, also used to convey something which may have happened a long previously by way of explanation that it is not contemporary, it can also be used as a type of explanation: a historic dispute or agreement. Our Minister of Justice sees something that happened in the previous 1 or 2 years as ‘historic’ despite that it hasn’t been until now noted in history, that it didn’t happened a long time previously and is not an explanation of a dispute or agreement – but rather the reason for not informing the incoming Minister of Police Anne Tolley that particular crimes had been ‘re-classified’ during the immediate watch of JC.

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  80. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    What a pity yours can’t be “reclassified”…

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  81. freemark (581 comments) says:

    Judith. MFAT staff have been shown to be leaking to & influenced by the Left. McCully & Malaysian Govt are irrelevant. Certain involved parties DON’T want the guy to stand trial here, because the whole story will come out. Hence perhaps the “he is free to go home” line. This will blow up big time on the alleged victim and Logie & Co, of that I am 100% certain.

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  82. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    DG shoots……. he scores! :lol:

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  83. Grendel (1,002 comments) says:

    Well it might be a terrible day out here in wellington (though working from home with the heat pump going, cat in my lap and music on makes it ok), its all good at GrendelCo as after an epiphany last week, i am firing a client today and posting them the notice and their file.

    takes a weight off knowing i will never again have to deal with them again.

    i recall hearing of a guy who would fire his two worst clients every year on his birthday, i can see the appeal :)

    Hope everyone elses day is as good :)

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  84. safesally (47 comments) says:

    Judith, you write like a man. Please tell me you are not misrepresenting.

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  85. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    “….a nauseating new low in British broadcasting”.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/10965037/How-dare-Channel-4-defame-Airey-Neaves-memory.html

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  86. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    Tauhei

    Offer him a bottle of Falklands Spring Water

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  87. questions (208 comments) says:

    In other news: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-one-in-50-catholic-priests-bishops-and-cardinals-are-paedophiles-9602919.html

    The Popes hard work has got paedofilla down to 2% within the Catholic Church, commendable? Or contemptible, time to lock this whole cult up?

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  88. Bovver (173 comments) says:

    Unbelievable that a company could be so racist and rude towards it’s customers, Countdown need to switch to grovelling mode asap:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10263055/Store-regrets-shoplift-shame

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  89. Maggy Wassilieff (406 comments) says:

    @ Judith 9:21
    “Yes, we females are a fickle lot. ”

    Thanks for taking women’s rights 2 steps backwards. Please think about the implications of what you are writing.

    I’m not a fickle old bird: never have been, hope I never will be.
    I’m constant in my belief that if you show me the evidence I’ll modify my views. But I don’t accept that just because I’m a female, I’m genetically programmed to change my mind willy nilly.

    There’s young women out job-hunting at the moment; they want to be taken seriously. They don’t need other females describing them as fickle.

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  90. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    kowtow, thank you for that. A bit more background about Airey Neave and the BBC 4’s scandalous work of mythology err ..sorry lies,

    ” I”n 2014, 35 years after Neave’s death, it was reported that a fictionalised account of Neave’s murder was to be used in a Channel 4 drama. The drama, called Utopia, portrays Neave, a confidant of Margaret Thatcher and escapee from Colditz, as a drinker who colluded with spies and portrays his assassination as perpetrated by MI5. This led to condemnation of the broadcaster, with Norman Tebbit (a friend and colleague of Neave and survivor of the Brighton hotel bombing in 1984) saying “To attack a man like that who is dead and cannot defend himself is despicable”. Neave’s family, who had not been consulted about the programme, announced their intention to take action to prevent the programme from being broadcast, claiming it had “fictionalised the atrocity ‘in the name of entertainment’ as well as falsely depicting him as a debauched and conniving figure”. Daily Mail

    Its indisputable his assassination was the work of an IRA faction,the Irish National Liberation Army (IRNA ),

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airey_Neave

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  91. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Bovver: (Welcome to the blog where it’s very hard to get banned…I know, I know…hard concept to get your head around after the swamp)…For a start, Countdown are already in grovel mode…But do tell us how YOU would have handled this scenario:

    A low level employee – probably on minimum wage plus $1 – spots a young Maori woman in the company of another shoving some eye fillet up her jersey…the shop’s policy is to prosecute lifters, and all staff are supposed to alert whoever is in charge of the CCTV when they see someone lifting..

    How would YOU have described these two – in a no doubt busy aisle of customers – so that the CCTV focused on the right two? Do tell…Or do you think stores should just let lifters get away with it and put it down to the cost of doing business??

    What has happened here I suspect is the person pressed the wrong button, and a comment meant for one person’s ears was broadcast all over the shop by mistake…Hurt feelings will have been well and truly assuaged by lots of koha by now…and Dame Susan can go back to worrying about something more substantial…

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  92. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    David
    I couldn’t help but notice that in your description of yourself you omitted any reference to ethnicity. That’s only a requirement when describing non-whites?

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  93. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Interesting about the Airey Neave stuff. How long does someone have to be dead before you make historical fiction about them?

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  94. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Mikey: Touche… In your ideal PC world No; probably the race of the suspect/target would be identified every time, as the cops do when they release the description of someone they are looking for…but in a country where the dominant – in all senses of the word – culture is Anglo-Euro, I suspect a supermarket employee may well not bother with “European”; in the absence of any other qualifier it would be assumed that the target was Euro..

    And just FTR, in my security job in Christchurch when I was a student, by far the majority of the lifters were bogan white males…but then it was Christchurch in the late 80’s…

    And re Airey Neave, do you think it’s alright to portray someone totally falsely, so long as they’ve been dead the required amount of time? the very fact that you can’t defame the dead means any person or organization portraying that person ought to be that much more careful to be fair and accurate…

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  95. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Maggy Wassilieff (227 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    I was being sarcastic – however, meant to put a :P after it, but forgot, so accept your criticism however, I do suggest that nothing I say has the ability to put anything ‘back’, let alone an entire gender, but thanks for the vote of confidence in my ‘power’.

    As to whether you are ‘fickle’ see point above regarding your belief in my ‘power’. :P

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  96. Bovver (173 comments) says:

    Hi David, one comment over the loud speaker system may have been a mistake but doing it three times is certainly not. After rereading the article I can’t find any quote where Mrs Cooper was shoving eye fillet up her jersey, she was however pregnant which may have accounted for the bulge.

    I guess I would have handled it by not being a prat over the PA system and talking to Mrs Cooper in a respectful way if there was any alleged shop lifting.

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  97. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ safesally (39 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    What a sexist comment – and they accuse me of dragging the sex back – are you trying to tell me there is a defined way that women should write, as opposed to men?

    Are you sure it’s not the receiver that is determining the content within their own value system? Given that there is no emphasis in typed words?

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  98. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I’m just saying David. No one would get upset about Shakespeare’s portrayal of Richard III (well, actually some ‘Ricardians’ do) or Winston Churchill appearing in Dr Who, would they? I recall Thailand was very upset about how their revered king was portrayed in ‘Anna and the King’, so some sensitivities can last a long time. Airey Neave died over thirty years ago. How much longer before he is usable as a fictional character?

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  99. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Bovver: You ever dealt face to face with a lifter? I have, a couple of dozen times…It was the very rare exception that they “came quietly” to the smoko room to wait for the cops…Yes, ladies and gents, it is astounding but true that well within living memory the Police came out to shoplifting complaints…we sometimes had to wait a while, but they always came…

    But back to speaking to lifters respectfully…Why FFS? You don’t tackle them unless you have a pretty good idea they have lifted something…I recall one guy who spat at us and called us “scum shopkeepers”…because we preferred him to pay for the 1125ml of Jack Daniels he had in his bag…Actually now I think about it, Jack Daniels came in a one litre bottle back then…easier to hide and much better than the other brand…apparently…

    Mikey: I would say never…as the article in the Telegraph notes, the man was a war hero and arguably helped to save Britain…Churchill died 50 years ago…would it be alright to portray him as a kiddy fiddler do you think??

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  100. Bovver (173 comments) says:

    Hi David, yes I did deal with a shop lifter back in the 80’s when I was a security guard at the BNZ shopping centre in Willis Street, and he did in fact wait. I know there are thugs who will do you over for a bottle of booze, witness the 4 teens who beat up the shop attendant last week.

    The Countdown case just seems a bit OTT for a pregnant mum doing her shopping with her kids.

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  101. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Bovver: Of course the woman had nothing on her by the time she loudly and indignantly protested…as I said in an earlier post, we used to find the bottles of JD poked in among the wine coolers and cask wines when lifters knew we were onto them…funnily enough once they’d dropped the contraband they usually left the shop without buying anything else…

    Now I am not saying this women lifted and then dropped, but you’d have to wonder why the shop employee apparently identified her not once but three times as someone they had seen lifting..

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  102. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    David
    You don’t think Churchill has been portrayed unfavourably in fiction? Your example of a kiddie fiddler is an interesting one. What about portraying one of Queen Victoria’s grandsons as Jack the Ripper?

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  103. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    Historical fiction.

    Shakespeare was writing for the Tudors to strengthen their claim to the throne.Therefore Richard had to be cast as a baddie (to make the Tudors worthy). It was a political play.

    It would appear the writers of Airey Neave are also political.Blackening the name of good people to forward an agenda.In this case hateful anti British leftism.

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  104. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    So it’s the agenda of the authors that matters? You’d be okay with a fictional portrayal of Neave that played up to your conception of him?

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  105. Bovver (173 comments) says:

    Hi David, three times over the PA system was a dickhead move on the employees part, if she really was a shop lifter why didn’t she get out after the 1st announcement, it would appear they were tracking her with CCTV so would have seen dropping her swag surely?

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  106. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    I am aware of the “Jack the Ripper was a royal” theory….one of literally dozens or hundreds of theories…accusing some obscure royal of being J the R is quite a different thing…

    Churchill has indeed been portrayed unfavourably – by today’s standards – as being a pisshead, a blowarse, and a rampant egotist…all apparently true. He has never been portrayed as a womaniser (he wasn’t) or a drug addict (ditto) or indifferent to loss of men’s lives (ditto)..

    Other than say it is “interesting” you haven’t commented on what it would be if he was portrayed – without a shadow of evidence – as a kiddly fiddler…so perhaps you should say if that’s alright in your view, given he has been dead for 50 years…

    Bovver: they don’t employ uni graduates at Pak n Save….and I have already said it is entirely possible the woman was in fact innocent…lets put it this way, of the dozens of times floor staff identified a shop lifter to me, I don’t recall ANY where they didn’t have something in the bag they hadn’t paid for…well, maybe one or two…its a long time ago since I was a credible security guard…

    Mikey: You are being very slow today…the agenda of the authors is of little importance…the accuracy of the portrayal and the basis for it is of much greater concern…

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  107. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yeah, I wouldn’t have a problem with Churchill being portrayed as a paedophile – he’s been accused of worse things – although I wouldn’t personally find that a credible portrayal.

    I think the agenda of the authors was kowtow’s primary concern. If we were too concerned with historical accuracy in fiction then it wouldn’t be fiction, would it?

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  108. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    kowtow, to be fair from my link above,

    “Labour Prime Minister James Callaghan said: “No effort will be spared to bring the murderers to justice and to rid the United Kingdom of the scourge of terrorism.”

    I think he got offside both with the IRA factions and their paramilitary . Protestants para militaries too.. Airey Neave as Thatcher’s shadow minister for Northern ireland promised tough action against all them. Also was against devolution.
    But to think that this was an MI5 and 6 plot is absurd. Even Enoch Powell believed the US was behind it. Another absurdity.!

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  109. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Stephie boy: Well “Sunny Jim” Callaghan was singularly ineffective then wasn’t he, given it took near on another 30 years to end “the troubles”, and far from being brought to justice, the IRA killers now have tea and cakes with the Queen…

    Mikey: sometimes you make comments that are more than half reasonable…sometimes you are just a complete dickhead…today is one of the latter…

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  110. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Would you be okay with a drama showing an heroic Airey Neave fighting against corrupt figures in the British intelligence establishment and being murdered as a result of a conspiracy. Seeing as that conspiracy theory has actually been advanced, I don’t see much wrong with using it for a basis for a fictional treatment.

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  111. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    mikenmild , why not advance a far more credible , plausible and likely scenario., the car bombing was the work of an IRA para military faction.?
    Instead of a BBC 4 fantasy!.

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  112. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I’m not in control of what subjects authors choose to use in historical fiction.

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  113. safesally (47 comments) says:

    @ Judith

    I think my comment was clear. What is unclear is your strangely defensive response. I am sorry to say that I think my suspicion about you appears accurate.

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  114. Gulag1917 (929 comments) says:

    The ultimate goal of the NSA is total population control
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/11/the-ultimate-goal-of-the-nsa-is-total-population-control

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  115. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    You live igm the fat droning SLATER( Whale oil) on newstalkzb thinks that the RAPING RAGHEAD MUSLIM wasnt givin a fair go because she was political(women on the LEFT MEANS BEEN RAPED and not worried about ) go,what idiot kiwi blogger thinks this raping raghead will come back , fuck this lady saw the writing on the wall and spoke out as SHONEY is relaxed for the diplomate not coming back (soure KEYs on holiday he dossnt give a FUCK

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  116. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I wish I could understand what that comment means, lurcher.

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  117. minus (201 comments) says:

    Rodney Hide seems to still be campaigning ( this afternoon on Radio Live) to get a Parliamentarian to under privilege divulge the name of a prominent Queenstown man to see if knowledge will produce a knock-on Rolf Harris effect of more charges.

    1] If he finds someone silly enough, can media or anyone else then repeat the name without penalty and can Hansard record it?

    2] And is name-supression a reasonable defence if any party has accepted donations from this individual?

    3] After his appearance on Live both afternoon hosts knew the name but didn’t seem to before.
    So has Hide broken the law? And for equality under the law, why should some know and others not?

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  118. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Leave justice to the experts – Laura McQuillan

    It’s a dirty phrase these days: innocent until proven guilty.

    Mention it, and the rabid self-proclaimed legal experts, the keyboard warriors in the “court of public opinion” will react like you’ve told them you like killing kittens.

    “That only matters in court!” cry the commentators, who think it’s their right to simultaneously decide cases and destroy reputations.

    They’re apparently unaware that a conviction in the court of public opinion could prevent a real court from hearing a case.

    Let’s hope none of them ends up on a jury.

    When a case like that of the Malaysian diplomat, or Roastbusters, or the Maori king’s son, hits headlines, you’d better get off the internet, turn off the radio and avoid public gatherings.

    Because there’s bound to one of these “experts” who’ll tell you who’s guilty, and what punishment they deserve.

    No wonder police are urging caution in the chat about the diplomat.

    It’s not just an issue of whether he gets a fair trial – especially if the court of public opinion stacks the jury. There’s still the major hurdle of getting him back to New Zealand, and comment on the matter could cause a flip-flop by the Malaysian government.

    Likewise, the Roastbusters group. Why even bother with a trial? Their guilt’s been decided by these “experts”.

    More than 130,000 of them signed a petition, calling for John Key to intervene in the case – because they like political meddling, when it suits them.

    Some of the more rabid of the “experts” – without a hint of irony – think rape is an appropriate punishment for the accused – even though they haven’t been arrested, charged or appeared in court.

    Nearly 30,000 of these “experts” have joined a Facebook page, calling for the Maori King’s son to be sent to jail, after he was discharged without conviction on burglary and drink-driving.

    More than 6500 are, again, calling for John Key – and even David Cunliffe – to intervene in the case. And 1200 want the judge to resign.

    Of course, their points aren’t based on common law precedents, or well-reasoned legal arguments.

    I can’t repeat their choice words here, but between the homophobic and racist language about the defendant, and the expletives used to describe the judge, you can see why justice is best left to the justice system.

    I’m the first to agree it’s not perfect, but change should be rational, not reactionary. Let the courts decide guilt and keep decision-making away from angry mobs.

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/opinion/laura-mcquillan-polyreport14july2014

    In general this makes some fair points, except that the ‘experts’ could do with having a good look at name suppression of privileged offenders.

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  119. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    mikenmild (10,456 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 5:02 pm
    I wish I could understand what that comment means, lurcher.

    Sorry a bit of a rant MM what im saying is the raghead diplomat will never return and the NZ female victim new what national was doing and spoke out ,TRADE rules over rape

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  120. Zapper (1,021 comments) says:

    DG

    Jack Daniels is not Bourbon Whiskey, it’s Tennessee Whiskey. Completely different :)

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  121. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    A contrast between David Cunliffe pandering to an audience but doing nothing that would make much actual difference, and Rodney Hide pushing the only ones who can make a difference, politicians, to stand up to name suppression nonsense.

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  122. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Just heard on the RNZ about the gang brawl in Opotiki and the extra cops being rushed into the area to contain “tensions”…

    I know it’s the kind of policy you hear loudly trumpeted at the pub – yep, we still have one out here – but would “put them on an Island and let them go at it”, or some variation thereof, really be such a bad idea? In my view there is no such thing as a “good guy” who just happens to be a gang member, just as there were no members of the SS who were good blokes at heart. To join a gang is, by definition, to become an outlaw…a person who doesn’t think the law applies to them.

    We have cage fights – which I personally find abhorrent – but why not go a step further and have “stadium fights” where the star attractions were members of the two major ethnic gangs who wanted to go for it to the death, or at least close to it? No trips to hospital; no first aid…at least unless you stripped off your patch there and then and renounced the gang lifestyle over the PA.

    Why do I say the fights should be between the two ethnic gangs? Because the others now mainly keep a very low profile…putting young women ‘on the block’ and having brawls in the street are very bad for the P trade…And FTR, the mainly white gangs – the Heads and the Angels – are just as bad as the others, arguably worse…they deserve just as much police attention as the more stupid ones.

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  123. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Maybe you’d just prefer vigilante death squads, David. Then there’d be no need to persuade the gangs to perform in public for your amusement.

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  124. cricko (330 comments) says:

    David Garret,

    I love watching “cage fighting” and so do millions of others.
    Mark Hunt and James Te Huna are international kiwi heros.
    UFC is the fastest growing sport on earth.
    So much faster and exciting than boxing. (Do you find boxing abhorrent ?)
    Mano e mano or girl v girl.
    The paticipants love it too.

    You couldn’t pay me enough to participate but.

    Also, stadium fights for gangs would be a great idea except…
    Gang menbers are basically cowards, thats why they join gangs.

    PS mikenmild, STFU

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  125. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ safesally (40 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 3:37 pm

    Who cares what sex I am, its an internet blog, it makes absolutely no difference, or rather shouldn’t make any difference. Either you agree with what a person says, or you don’t. Whether they are male or female should not enter into it. I would hate it if people felt they had to provide some sort of soft touch to me, because I’m female, and have to be harder on another poster because they are male. Which is why I find your question insulting – it doesn’t matter what sex I am, IMO.

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  126. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    cricko
    You gonna make me?

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  127. itstricky (1,851 comments) says:

    I imagine David could just call them out and sort it all out at his house, down the lane, over the second bridge, with the blue letterbox…

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  128. goldnkiwi (1,310 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11293264

    Hoping to distract the PM pre election.

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  129. stigie (1,219 comments) says:

    Whats happened to Johnboy….Starting to miss the poor ole sod ?

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  130. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    stigie (875 comments) says:
    July 14th, 2014 at 6:47 pm

    Nope, checked out the back and he’s not bothering my sheep.

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  131. nasska (11,579 comments) says:

    Johnboy has been recalled for consultations stigie. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/su74dzw6wccisfv/Sheep%20satanic.jpg

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  132. edd (157 comments) says:

    Mcreedy taking Key to court over Banks coverup?

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  133. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    A controversial announcement – “Did Pope Francis really say 2% of Catholic clergy are pedophiles?”

    An interview that credits Pope Francis as saying about 2% of Roman Catholic clerics are pedophiles stirred controversy Sunday, as the Vatican sought to raise questions about the article’s accuracy and others called on the pope to take more action on the issue.

    The remarks, reported in in the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, came a week after the pope asked for forgiveness in his first meeting with victims of clerical sexual abuse.

    The interview by Eugenio Scalfari, published Sunday, quotes the pope as calling the rash of sex abuse scandals “a leprosy in our home” and saying the pedophiles include “priests and even bishops and cardinals,” according to a CBS News translation. “And others, even more numerous, know about it but keep quiet, they punish without saying the reason why. I find this state of things untenable and it is my intention to confront it with the severity it requires.”

    The Vatican has pushed back on some points. According to Vatican officials, Scalfari does not record his conversations with the pope nor transcribe them word for word. News.va, an official Vatican news source, cited Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi as saying Scalfari quotes Francis from memory alone, and that the pope does not review the results before publication.

    Lombardi did not rebut any assertions Francis was said to have made, but raised questions about the lack of a closing quotation mark at the end of the paragraph that included the 2% figure.

    At a United Nations hearing this year, the Vatican said it had defrocked 848 priests over the last decade and ordered 2,572 to “live a life of prayer and penance” because of abuse allegations. There are about 414,000 Roman Catholic priests worldwide, according to the BBC; if 2% are pedophiles, that would be more than 8,000.

    In his meeting last week with victims of clerical sexual abuse, Francis pledged that bishops who covered up such abuse of minors would be held accountable.

    http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-wn-pope-francis-pedophile-priests-20140713-story.html

    Seems like the pope is treating the problem with the seriousness it requires.

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  134. dad4justice (8,238 comments) says:

    “Mcreedy taking Key to court over Banks coverup?”

    With all these tax paid politicians clogging up our wayward justice system it’s little wonder gangs run rampant in society and prisons. What a disgrace.

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  135. Longknives (4,764 comments) says:

    “UFC is the fastest growing sport on earth.
    So much faster and exciting than boxing.”

    I have been hearing that utter bullshit for twenty years now. (I remember mates at University who were into UFC were giving us Boxing guys crap that our sport would be “extinct in a couple of years” as UFC was taking over the World.. apparently..)
    That was in the mid 90s. Funny how Boxing is STILL ten times bigger than UFC..
    Get back to me when Mark Hunt is as famous as Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao .

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  136. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Seems like the church might want to play down his concerns though.

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  137. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Mikey: When I was a young man I used to fantasise about death squads taking out gangs…but I’ve since got older and wiser – and perhaps more squeamish…Believe it or not, I would not be interested in attending a “fight to the death” between 20 mongrel mob and 20 BP members…but I would think the world a better place next morning if half of them were dead and the other half were seriously injured…is such a stance really so “out there” ??

    What does UFC mean??

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  138. SGA (1,069 comments) says:

    nasska at 6:52 pm

    Johnboy has been recalled for consultations stigie. :)
    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/su74dzw6wccisfv/Sheep%20satanic.jpg

    His interspecies relationships were always going to end poorly. Sad really.

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  139. SGA (1,069 comments) says:

    David Garrett at 7:10 pm

    What does UFC mean??

    err… Ultimate fighting championship, I think. From what I can tell, they fight in a cage, and can punch, elbow, knee, kick, wrestle. From the few I’ve seen on TV in passing, it often devolves into grappling on the floor until one gets on top and elbows and punches the other in the head until the fight stops.

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  140. edd (157 comments) says:

    If Key goes to jail does he take the National government down with him?

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  141. cricko (330 comments) says:

    Longknives
    I have nothing against boxing,
    I love watching boxing, I have watched every legit heavyweight championship bout since Ingmar Johansen was
    the champ.

    Floyd Mayweather Jnr is pure magic. The ultimate in how to hit and not be hit, a professor of the sweet science.

    But UFC is taking over. And you have not been hearing that for 20 years now, that’s bullshit.
    3 years maybe.

    My Dad used to laugh at my interest in boxing because he maintained that it was always rigged ever
    since Clay beat Liston.

    Muhammad Ali was and is the Greatest ever.
    but
    Pay per view, UFC is now winning.

    Why can’t we be fans of both sports ?

    PS mikenmild STFU

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  142. big bruv (13,928 comments) says:

    “But UFC is taking over”

    Bullshit!

    It might be popular amongst the bogan population but that is about it. Bob Jones has famously said that if you locked two morons into a room and told them to invent a sport they would come out of the room with Rugby League.

    It seems that Bob was only half right, they would also come out with UFC.

    Oh…and who the hell is Mark Hunt?

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  143. cricko (330 comments) says:

    PS mikenmild,

    why do you feel the need to put your oar into every fricken subject under the sun ?

    Why can’t you just STFU for once ?

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  144. big bruv (13,928 comments) says:

    “about death squads taking out gangs”

    What on earth is wrong with that idea?

    We don’t need Death squads DG, we already have the men in NZ ready and able to do the job, they are called the NZ SAS.

    As far as I am concerned a gang patch should also double as a target, give the SAS a “shoot on sight” order and we would clean these scum off the streets in weeks.

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  145. nasska (11,579 comments) says:

    A priest is sitting inside the church, when a bloke comes in and asks to be confessed.

    “Very well, my child,” says the priest, as he leads the man into the confession booth, “Tell me about your sins.”

    “Well, Father,” says the bloke, “On Monday, I was at my girlfriend’s house, and, well… the two of us alone, the house empty… I sinned, Father.”

    “Don’t worry, child,” says the priest, “It’s perfectly normal to have such desires and share them with your partner. Nothing serious, so just say two prayers and you will be cleansed of your sins.”

    “But Father,” continues the man, “It doesn’t end there. On Tuesday, I was at my girlfriend’s house again, but she had gone out with her mates, and the only one there was her sister, and, well… the two of us alone, the house empty… I sinned again, Father.”

    “Oh, child,” says the Father, “You must be strong and fight those urges! Eight prayers shall cleanse you of your sins.”

    “But Father,” says the bloke again, “On Wednesday, I was at my girlfriend’s house again, and she wasn’t there then either, and the only one at home was her mum, and, well… the two of us alone, the house empty… Again I sinned, Father.”

    “Good Lord,” says the priest, “Child, you must think about what you do, so pray-”

    “But Father,” says the bloke, “On Thursday, I was at my girlfriend’s house again, and the whole family had gone to the shop, and the only one there was the maid, and, well… the two of us alone, the house empty… I sinned yet again, Father.”

    The priest falls silent.

    “And then,” continues the bloke, “On Friday, I was at her house again, and they had gone out for the weekend and the only one there was her aunt, and , well… the two of us alone, the house empty…”

    The priest still did not answer.

    “And on Saturday,” said the bloke, “I went to her house again, and there was nobody there except for her grandmother, and, well…”

    The man awaits a reply, but upon hearing none, he exits the booth – only to find the priest up on the belfry.

    “Father,” he calls, “What are you doing up there? I haven’t finished!”

    “Like fuck I’m coming down,” says the priest, “The two of us alone, the church empty… and I don’t want you to sin any more.”

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  146. nasska (11,579 comments) says:

    ….”As far as I am concerned a gang patch should also double as a target, give the SAS a “shoot on sight” order and we would clean these scum off the streets in weeks.”…..

    You might have a bit of trouble slipping that pass the BORA vigilantes. :)

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  147. cricko (330 comments) says:

    big bruv
    OK, I got a bit carried away with saying UFC is taking over, that was wrong.
    The big boxing fights will probably outdraw the big UFCs during our lifetimes, thing is there are so many big UFCs
    these days.

    Why can’t we be fans of both sports but ?

    Seems you know as much about Mark Hunt as you do about the mighty All Blacks.

    PS mikenmild STFU

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  148. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Oh dear, cricko, whatever is your problem?

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  149. SGA (1,069 comments) says:

    nasska at 8:13 pm

    ….”As far as I am concerned a gang patch should also double as a target, give the SAS a “shoot on sight” order and we would clean these scum off the streets in weeks.”…..
    You might have a bit of trouble slipping that pass the BORA vigilantes.

    For an April Fool’s prank, we could give unsuspecting tourists special souvenir shirts! Actually, it could be used to add a “Hunger Games” element to “The Amazing Race” too, as I think about it.

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  150. big bruv (13,928 comments) says:

    Over 1000 Priests are sexual predators.

    http://www.firstpost.com/world/2-priests-in-the-catholic-church-are-sexual-abusers-pope-1617221.html

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  151. big bruv (13,928 comments) says:

    SGA

    Why would we want to do that to tourists?

    A far better idea would be to sell the concept of a shooting tour to overseas tourists. They can come here, pay a tidy sum and then gain a “hunting license” to go out and shoot gang members.

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  152. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Extra kudos if they pot a few bystanders along the way.

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  153. nasska (11,579 comments) says:

    David G should have considered the possible tourism drawcard before he dismissed the idea SGA. :)

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  154. SGA (1,069 comments) says:

    big bruv at 8:27 pm

    SGA
    Why would we want to do that to tourists?

    Adventure tourism is where it’s at big bruv. Where have you been?

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  155. Colville (2,272 comments) says:

    MMA (UFC is a brand) is just more interesting to watch than boxing.
    Back in the day when Royce Gracie won UFC One it was pretty tame but new and different. Now its just full on action.
    Lots of weight classes and good depth in the ranks. Boxings talent pool is ankle deep at best and getting shalower by the day.

    There would be 10 MMA gyms now for every 1 boxing gym.

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  156. big bruv (13,928 comments) says:

    cricko

    “Why can’t we be fans of both sports but ?”

    Because I don’t bloody want to be a fan of a brain dead sport like cage fighting. Were you considering making it compulsory?

    As for this chap Hunt. Yes, I know fuck all about the man, it will come as no surprise cricko that I have no interest at all in learning more about him. I can assure you that I will not be in awe of his “achievement’s” and I will not develop a respect for the man based on his ability to fight in a cage.
    The reality is that I suspect that Hunt is very similar in the minds of Kiwis to the National Rugby team. The rest of the world have never heard of Hunt nor the NZ rugby team yet we pretend they are both world famous so as to feed our embarrassing inferiority complex.

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  157. Colville (2,272 comments) says:

    We cant trust tourists not to kill bystanders when they are driving and we are goind to encourage them to roam the streets tooled up with a hunting licence? *interesting*

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  158. dad4justice (8,238 comments) says:

    “so as to feed our embarrassing inferiority complex.”

    Speak for yourself nutbar, not all of us drive a clapped out rust bucket cab so they can leech a living.
    Both Mr Hunt and the All Blacks are proud to be kiwis.

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  159. big bruv (13,928 comments) says:

    SGA

    I am willing to concede that you might have a point. However, that adventure tourism stuff usually attracts back packer types who rent out those freedom camper wrecks and end up shitting and pissing all over our countryside. The bastards are almost always broke as well so they are not exactly our prime market are they.

    My idea is more designed to attract the well off types who like to shoot things. Instead of killing off our wildlife we could make more money by letting them shoot gang members. I am talking about some serious wedge here SGA, a couple of hundred of your well heeled Yankee or Russian multi millionaires coming here and shelling out a hundred grand or so (just for the license) would do wonders for our tourism industry.

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  160. SGA (1,069 comments) says:

    Colville at 8:37 pm

    We cant trust tourists not to kill bystanders when they are driving and we are goind to encourage them to roam the streets tooled up with a hunting licence? *interesting*

    Maybe big bruv is thinking of special “safari parks” (like they have in parts of Africa).

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  161. big bruv (13,928 comments) says:

    Colville

    You raise a not unreasonable question. My idea would be that these tourists would have to be under the strict control of a guide at all times. These guides could be ex police officers who would be well aware of who the true innocents were in these communities and make sure none of them were harmed.

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  162. SGA (1,069 comments) says:

    big bruv at 8:42 pm

    However, that adventure tourism stuff usually attracts back packer types who rent out those freedom camper wrecks and end up shitting and pissing all over our countryside. The bastards are almost always broke as well so they are not exactly our prime market are they.

    True, but you are going to run out of gang members eventually – maybe you’ve stumbled on to the answer to that problem?

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  163. nasska (11,579 comments) says:

    ….”True, but you are going to run out of gang members eventually – maybe you’ve stumbled on to the answer to that problem?”…..

    Start with Local Government CEOs & work down their foodchain. That should cover the sport for the next twenty years or so.

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  164. SGA (1,069 comments) says:

    nasska at 8:51 pm

    ….”True, but you are going to run out of gang members eventually – maybe you’ve stumbled on to the answer to that problem?”…..
    Start with Local Government CEOs & work down their foodchain. That should cover the sport for the next twenty years or so.

    You’re the sort of hunter that shoots ducks on the water, aren’t you. I’m disappointed.

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  165. big bruv (13,928 comments) says:

    SGA

    This is NZ, we are never going to run out of scum, and remember, I am not just talking about the Blacks and the Mungies, we have plenty more crime gangs of all ethnicities.

    However, once they have been eliminated we could then move onto drug dealers (those few not associated with Gangs) house breakers, rapists, paedophiles (will the Catholic church survive?) those who have committed more than one murder….the possibilities are endless.

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  166. SGA (1,069 comments) says:

    big bruv at 9:00 pm

    However, once they have been eliminated we could then move onto drug dealers (those few not associated with Gangs) house breakers, rapists, paedophiles (will the Catholic church survive?) those who have committed more than one murder….the possibilities are endless.

    If you recruit Redbaiter to help you compile your Mikado-ish list, I’m sure you won’t have any problems at all.

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  167. nasska (11,579 comments) says:

    Like this SGA?

    (Ko-Ko:)

    As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
    I’ve got a little list — I’ve got a little list
    Of society offenders who might well be underground,
    And who never would be missed — who never would be missed!
    There’s the pestilential nuisances who write for autographs —
    All people who have flabby hands and irritating laughs —
    All children who are up in dates, and floor you with ‘em flat —
    All persons who in shaking hands, shake hands with you like that —
    And all third persons who on spoiling tête-á-têtes insist —
    They’d none of ‘em be missed — they’d none of ‘em be missed!

    (Chorus:)
    He’s got ‘em on the list — he’s got ‘em on the list;
    And they’ll none of ‘em be missed — they’ll none of ‘em be missed.

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  168. big bruv (13,928 comments) says:

    SGA

    I can assure you that this new business of mine will not have Bedwetter anywhere near it. I will of course pay Mr David Garrett royalties of around 20% simply because he gave me the idea in the first place

    I might hire D4J as a consultant for the first few weeks though, he seems to know a hell of a lot of cops so he could tell me the right ones to hire as guides.

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  169. SGA (1,069 comments) says:

    nasska at 9:06 pm

    Like this SGA?

    Exactly – and I think you are wise not continuing to the original line of the next verse :-)

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  170. SGA (1,069 comments) says:

    big bruv at 9:08 pm

    I might hire D4J as a consultant for the first few weeks though, he seems to know a hell of a lot of cops so he could tell me the right ones to hire as guides.

    Errr… not sure that’s a good idea. They might end up with a patch quietly sellotaped to their back when they aren’t looking.

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  171. big bruv (13,928 comments) says:

    SGA

    Got that covered as well. D4J will not be a full time employee, once we kick off for real he would be long gone.

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  172. dad4justice (8,238 comments) says:

    Whatever crackpot, man your UBF is eating you faster than cancer. Try and get some professional help, please.

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  173. big bruv (13,928 comments) says:

    What is UBF ?

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  174. cricko (330 comments) says:

    big bruv

    just to help you educate your poor sad self.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hunt

    You should take more notice of dad4justice you might learn sumsing.
    Why do you hate your national team ?
    And guess what, you are the only person on this blog that is unable to answer that question.
    The answer is self evident to everyone who reads your posts.

    PS mikenmild STFU

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  175. SGA (1,069 comments) says:

    cricko
    I don’t know what UBF means either – a quick look returned interesting possibilities ranging from Ugly Best Friend to Universal Bible Foundation to Ultimate Bowling Fighter (go figure!) – none really seemed to fit the context.

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  176. Gulag1917 (929 comments) says:

    Overcoming Stockholm Syndrome

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  177. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    A book for stephieboy: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/14/the-strange-leak-of-the-new-expose-clinton-inc.html

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  178. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    BB: 20% royalties…very generous of you…

    It is sooo good being able to say what I really think without fearing a ticking off from Rodney in the morning!

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