General Debate 1 July 2014

July 1st, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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310 Responses to “General Debate 1 July 2014”

  1. Yvette (2,745 comments) says:

    A small technical point would be that PM Key and PM (Penelope Mary) Bright, are on different galaxies, when it comes to proven track records and policies – Penelope Mary Bright

    Yes, Penny, we had noticed

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  2. twofish (82 comments) says:

    Labour wants to end the dislocation of Pacific Island families who are split apart for years by New Zealand’s immigration rules.

    A number of measures in Labour’s new immigration policy were targeted at Pacific groups, including proposals to speed up family reunification and raise the pay of seasonal workers – many of whom come from the islands.

    Labour Party immigration spokesman Trevor Mallard said the proposals were not an election-year bid for the Pacific vote but would simply honour New Zealand’s historical relationships with its neighbouring countries.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11284298

    So does Trevor propose re-uniting families in the Islands or here in New Zealand, and is this Labour’s Immigration policy, to ease housing pressures in Auckland, as fucked as all their other policies, which after about three days from announcement are all totally reversed?

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  3. Colville (2,190 comments) says:

    http://www.thegoat.co.nz/

    I am entered :-) 5 months of hill running ahead!

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  4. hj (6,747 comments) says:

    Bryce Edwards: Will immigrants become the housing scapegoat?
    11:31 AM Thursday May 22, 2014

    Bryce Edwards is a lecturer in Politics at the University of Otago. He teaches and researches on New Zealand politics, public policy, political parties, elections, and political communication. His PhD, completed in 2003, was on ‘Political Parties in New Zealand: A Study of Ideological and Organisational Transformation’. He is currently working on a book entitled ‘Who Runs New Zealand? An Anatomy of Power’. He is also on the board of directors for Transparency International New Zealand.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11259692

    and open borders advocte (assuming your views aline with your guest blogger):

    “Both in New Zealand and globally, the best of the leftwing tradition has always rejected small-minded nationalism, xenophobia and racism. In fact, leftists of an internationalist tradition have always favoured globalization and getting rid of national borders and barriers to migration. Progressive advocates of globalization of course do not defend a handful of rich imperialist countries, including New Zealand, dominating the world’s economy, but instead advocate an integrated and radically egalitarian world economy where production is based on social need and not on private profit. ”

    http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2012/02/guest-blog-post-john-moore-leftwing-xenophobia-in-new-zealand.html

    I wonder how many of our air head intellectual elite share those views?

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  5. minus (160 comments) says:

    The cigarettes your grandpa smoked were nothing compared to what’s out there these days. Over the last half-century, cigarettes have gotten more addictive and harmful

    One additive is levulinic acid, which … reduces the pH of cigarette smoke and desensitizes the upper respiratory tract, increasing the potential for cigarette smoke to be inhaled deeper into the lungs. Levulinic acid may also literally alter the minds of smokers—enhancing the binding of nicotine to neurons that would be otherwise unresponsive to the drug.

    Other additives, like sugars, acetaldehydes and menthol, and engineering advancements such as ventilated filters make smoke easier to inhale. With each puff, smoke from today’s cigarette penetrates deeper into lungs, and carries with it a host of addiction-enhancing chemicals that weren’t found in cigarettes 50 years ago.
    http://www.alternet.org/drugs/big-tobacco-making-cigarettes-more-addictive-ever-graphic

    So the answer is plain packaging? When packets by law are already not allowed to be displayed at point of sales?

    Turiana, when New Zealand is supposedly “smoke free”in 2025, will Imperial Tobacco continue to manufacture 3 billion cigarettes a year and also rolling tobacco for the Australian market?

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  6. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    twofish: Mallard is greasing to PIs as his tenure in Parliament is somewhat threatened with boundary changes. Hopefully they will see though the mongrel, as we already have too many non-productive, obese, medical seeking PIs in NZ.
    Notice leeching Greens standing down to help deviant labourites in Hutt South and Wanganui . . . talk about coat-tailing!

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  7. iMP (2,345 comments) says:

    We live in such dynamic days, that the modern nations of Iraq and Syria fall apart and a new old historic Islamic Caliphate is formed, and we hardly hear anything of this in the NZ news. More on the Black caps vs West Indies. This is truly momentous, but hey, it’s all Israel or George Bush’s fault.

    Christians, Jews and Israelis are observing this event with the utmost historic fascination.

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  8. Viking2 (11,280 comments) says:

    Colville (1,990 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 8:04 am

    http://www.thegoat.co.nz/

    I am entered :-) 5 months of hill running ahead!
    ======================
    Going as………… Billy goat Gruff or?

    Tough stuff. Would I could do this but alas the pump needs repairing.

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  9. lilman (931 comments) says:

    Dont be to hard on Mallard wanting to bring back the Moa.
    After all he was around when they last were walking around.

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  10. Nostalgia-NZ (5,045 comments) says:

    Good on you Colville.

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  11. kowtow (7,951 comments) says:

    Shocking atrocity .

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2675451/Bodies-three-Jewish-settlers-went-missing-near-Hebron-near-West-Bank-city.html

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  12. hj (6,747 comments) says:

    Bryce Edwards has support amongst Realestate International:

    Harcouts showcase $800m products in China.

    “Chinese economy we all know about…
    Chinese government says it’s time to grow offshore…..
    Let’s take a good selection of New Zealands “products” over….
    “We’re all New Zealanders, we all love the country so I think it’s healthy for us to have the debate and make the right decisions for our country…. but hey!…. young people coming through see it as “our planet” rather than “our country”

    http://static.radionz.net.nz/assets/audio_item/0011/2385074/mnr-20100824-0842-More_than_800-million_dollars_worth_of_property_on_display-m048.asx

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  13. Colville (2,190 comments) says:

    V2.
    Goat as in mountian goat as in its running around the mountian.
    21 kms from Wakapapa to Turoa on the DOC track.
    Its my yearly day of suffering ;-)

    Edit. Aim is to be around 88 kg come race day, would be my lightest since I was 25!

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  14. Colville (2,190 comments) says:

    The cricketers are 2 wickets off a series win in the Windies!

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  15. Keeping Stock (10,178 comments) says:

    Is Trevor Mallard trying to stave off his personal and political extinction when Chris Bishop takes him to the cleaners on 20th September? Next think he’ll be advocating that Labour brings Michael Joseph Savage and Norman Kirk back to life!

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/is-mallard-seeking-de-extinction.html

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  16. Gulag1917 (809 comments) says:

    New Zealand, a puppet state?

    Cold War Renewed With A Vengeance
    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/06/28/cold-war-renewed-vengeance-washington-lies-paul-craig-roberts/

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  17. iMP (2,345 comments) says:

    Back to Expansionist Islam…

    There have been 4 main Islamic Caliphates since Mohammed I think, lasting from about 600s-1500s. Then there was the Ottoman Empire, a kind of Caliphate (till 1900s) which collapse was from which Syria and Iraq were formed by the British and Europeans So, this new June 2014 proclamation would be the fifth and latest attempt by Islam to form a world empire.

    There is of course the islamic prophesied Caliphate of the Mahdî. The new self-proclamed Caliph (Baghdadi) fits this bill and this man has achieved what both Saddam Hussein and Bin Ladin both failed to do. He now rules over an area larger than NZ and taxes more people than the population of NZ. He controls a city larger than 1 million people, and is poised to overtake Baghdad itself. This is interesting, because Christian theology and eschatology also awaits this event. The theological concept of the Second Coming of Christ is also prefaced by this event.

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  18. calendar girl (1,203 comments) says:

    With the General Election campaign is underway, it seems that Helensville candidate Penny Bright has decided to do much of her electoral campaigning through the Kiwiblog General Debate thread.

    A single guest post may not be unreasonable (if Ms Bright asks DPF nicely). And she always has an opportunity to comment on Party policy matters. But day after day of inane personal attacks, smears and name-calling against her opponent John Key is more than most would regard as tolerable.

    Will this blatant political electioneering be allowed to continue on the GD thread for the remaining 12 weeks before Election Day? If so, the likes of Winston Peters and Trevor Mallard should be invited in to provide a bit of comedy relief.

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  19. BeaB (2,083 comments) says:

    Cunliffe let the mask slip this morning on RNZ with his nasty, smart-alec replies to questions about the Dominion Post’s story about Mallard and the other moas.
    No wonder his caucus hate him if that is the way he speaks to them.

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  20. Gulag1917 (809 comments) says:

    “because Christian theology and eschatology also awaits this event. The theological concept of the Second Coming of Christ is also prefaced by this event.”
    An eschatological point of view not the eschatological point of view.

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  21. kowtow (7,951 comments) says:

    The caliphate coming to Europe ,crippled by its own laws around “human rights” and run by a clutch of cultural marxists. They need a man with the guts of a Tony Abbott there.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/06/italy-rescuers-find-bodies-migrant-boat-20146302249432403.html

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  22. Pete George (23,340 comments) says:

    But day after day of inane personal attacks, smears and name-calling against her opponent John Key is more than most would regard as tolerable.

    That’s hardly unusual behaviour on Kiwiblog. Why single out Penny?

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  23. Gulag1917 (809 comments) says:

    Australia is a bit further away from potential migrants than Italy is, at least the Italians have got a navy. Wonder what NZ would use, fold up kayaks?

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  24. Chthoniid (2,029 comments) says:

    Ugh

    Twitter has just recommend I follow David Cunliffe

    I feel unclean.

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  25. hmmokrightitis (1,571 comments) says:

    Colville – add some stair climbing (real stairs, and rock jumping along a beach too if you can) at the end of your long runs. The last few k’s are very rocky, and it will take a lot out of you. You’ll love it, its a great run :)

    Edit: I assumed you hadnt done it before, sorry if you have :)

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  26. Scott Chris (5,976 comments) says:

    Well done Kiwi Cricketers:

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-new-zealand-2014/engine/match/730281.html

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  27. Ross12 (1,278 comments) says:

    Good on John Key calling Labour’s bluff over the diplomat. Shearer says the Govt. should name him and his country. Key says if Labour want to name him they can go ahead –in the process they will be breaking a Court Order so they can take the consequences.

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  28. trout (921 comments) says:

    Brilliant effort by the Black Caps in the West Indies to take the Test series. The last ball bowled by Boult was an unplayable pearler.

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  29. MT_Tinman (3,052 comments) says:

    Three test series, three wins.

    NZ finally has a cricket team again :-)

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  30. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    this latest ANZ ad on tele is a real beaut: the hapless male arrives minutes late for a date and is publicly scolded by the female waiting outside the event proper. On the torment of retribution goes for him with examples of her not only ignoring his attempts at conciliatory interaction but also laughingly flirting with a waiter as the embarrassed perp sits in conventry doing his awkward penance at a reasonably flashy restaurant after the show. The only way the poor slob can finally atone for his hideous crime is to splash out on a surprise and rather expensive bottle of her favourite champers- for which he is immediately absolved of the crime punishable by death and rewarded with a smiling mouthful of youthful, and symmetrically perfect teeth (and adoring gaze). Seriously, is it any wonder men in this society have such a terrible time in the court system in matters of child visitation etc when dross like that is continually perpetuated as the norm for young women and men to follow. How that shit got beyond the cutting room floor is to say the least very sick indeed.

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  31. hj (6,747 comments) says:

    Last night on Radio NZ
    Japan’s Massive Rebuild Mission
    It sounds like they are having many of the problems Christchurch is. Such as cost of building a new house. Of course we don’t have sea salt on the Canterbury Plain.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/insight/audio/2601350/insight-for-29-june-2014-japan%27s-massive-rebuild-mission

    I think when cities are destroyed we discover a sort of hard core of what is needed and what isn’t but also the relative value of the human and the piece of wood. Christchurch began as a lucky city, it is said to be unsurpassed in the history of British colonisation (for people with moderate capital to increase their wealth as people became aware of the grasslands on the Canterbury Plain). I feel we have overshot our production possibility frontier.

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  32. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    As its all about religion –

    John Key cometh :-)

    by Imperator Fish on July 1, 2014 in Humour, Opinion, Parliament
    The early years

    And the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of New Zealand named Auckland, to a woman espoused to a man whose name was George, of the house of Key; and the woman’s name was Ruth.

    And the angel came unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

    And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

    And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Ruth: for thou hast found favour with God.

    And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JOHN KEY. And he shall reign over New Zealand forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

    The Merrill Lynch years

    Then was John Key led up of the Spirit into the halls of Merrill Lynch to be tempted of the devil.

    And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these currencies be traded for profit.

    But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by profit alone, for he also needeth golf.

    Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple as CEO of their foreign exchange division.

    He enters politics in NZ

    And Michelle of Boag spake to him, saying:

    The people of Helensville are in darkness, for they are in the shadow of Brian Neeson.

    And at first no-one listened, for a camel might sooner fit through the eye of a needle than wise words should come from Michelle of Boag’s mouth.

    But leaving New York, Key came to New Zealand and dwelt in Parnell, which is upon the sea coast and in excellent school zones.

    And Key saith unto the National Party members in Helensville Follow me, for though I live in Parnell I will rid you of that useless Neeson.

    And the National Party members in Helensville followed Key. And it came to pass that Key was anointed MP for Helensville, amidst much wailing and gnashing of teeth by Brian Neeson’s supporters.

    He becomes National Party leader

    There was a man sent from God whose name was Don Brash. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to everyone was in the world, but the world did not recognise him.

    And Don testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, He is the one who comes after me, the laces of whose shoes I am not worthy to untie. Still, I wouldn’t mind a decent portfolio, John.

    But Key commanded him, saying, Get ye gone from the house of National, for you’ve had your turn.

    He becomes Prime Minister

    And John Key went about all the land, preaching the gospel of the market, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

    And there followed him great multitudes of people from Auckland and Wellington, and from Hamilton, and from Christchurch, and from Invercargill, and even from Maungakiekie.

    And his fame went throughout all New Zealand: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were Don Brash supporters; and he healed them.

    His first Budget

    And seeing the multitudes, he went up into parliament: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him.

    And he opened his mouth, and told them his Budget, saying,

    Blessed are the poor: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. God will look after them, so there’s no need for us to bother.

    Blessed are those on the make: for they shall inherit the earth.

    Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after tax cuts: for their pockets shall be filled.

    Blessed are the merciless: though they obtained mercy when they fell on hard times themselves.

    Blessed are Gerry and the Pacemakers, although I’m a Coldplay man myself.

    Blessed are they which are persecuted for the right’s sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you. But we need you guys in ACT, so stay strong.

    Rejoice, Rodney, and be exceeding glad: for great will be your reward in my government: though the people of Epsom shall suffer for it.

    Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid, because once we’ve amended the Resource Management Act all the trees blocking the view will be gone.

    Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. But that’s only the ones who can’t afford electricity, and they probably don’t vote for us anyway.

    Let your light so shine before men, that they may see our brighter future, and glorify the National Party which is in power.

    Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the profits: I am not come to destroy, but to sell.

    For verily I say unto you, I’m fairly relaxed about the whole thing, actually.

    The 2011 election campaign

    And a time of great trial came.

    And Don Brash returned from exile; and Key commanded Don Brash, saying, Go to the lost sheep of the house of ACT. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Raise the dead, cast out the devils, and give John Banks a call.

    And, behold, there came a member of the Young Nats with terrible acne and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

    And Key put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; use this Clearasil and be thou clean. And immediately his acne was cleansed.

    And Key saith unto him, go thy way, and show thyself to the public in this blue “I’m a Key person” t-shirt”. Pray that it may disguise your lack of empathy.

    And when Key was entered into McGehan Close, there came unto him a resident of the street, beseeching him,

    And saying, Lord, you promised a brighter future for us all when you were in Opposition.

    And Key saith unto him, just give me another three years and everything will be better.

    2012 and beyond

    And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the media, insomuch that the party was covered with scandal: but he was asleep.

    And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.

    And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the media, and set the police on some of them, and there was a great calm for many months.

    But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the New Zealand Herald obeys him!

    http://kiwiboomers.co.nz/john-key-cometh/

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  33. Pete George (23,340 comments) says:

    Not only are the Black Caps winning a few tests now, they have good young players competing for places in the team.

    Credit to McCullum as captain too – as well as Taylor for slotting back into the team supporting rather than upsettiing things.

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  34. dime (9,667 comments) says:

    Colville – have you done it before?

    My buddy is about to do it for the 4th year in a row. He is a sick puppy!

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  35. dime (9,667 comments) says:

    Black Caps – woohooooooooooo

    I’ve been saying for a while we are on the verge of a golden era.

    If we can just find an opener…

    Boult & Southee – just awesome. Their averages are coming down. Boult has a strike rate of 55, Southee 57. Those numbers are coming down too. They bowl well together.. great to watch.

    Kane is now averaging over 40!

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  36. Odakyu-sen (527 comments) says:

    “In fact, leftists of an internationalist tradition have always favoured globalization and getting rid of national borders and barriers to migration.”

    Globalization would enable centralized global control. Could you imagine what lengths a global-controlling elite would go to to maintain their power?

    To go off on a tangent: migration destroys international diversity. Imagine three nations (AAA, BBB and CCC). If their populations migrated evenly, you’d be left with (ABC, ABC, ABC); i.e., three identical countries (0 diversity). Sure, there would be diversity, but on a local level. It’s ironic that globalization tends to destroy diversity at a national level.

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  37. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    Will this blatant political electioneering be allowed to continue on the GD thread for the remaining 12 weeks before Election Day?

    But being indoctrinated by the ‘blatant political electioneering’ of the Muppet party day in and day out is okay?

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  38. peterwn (3,215 comments) says:

    So Wellington City Council has returned parking enforcement to ‘in house’. I wonder if this includes emptying the pay and display machines and the handful of remaining parking meters – at least the pay and display machines provide a tally of cash inserted! When WCC employees emptied parking meters, WCC really got creamed by its employees and WCC quickly contracted this out.

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  39. Odakyu-sen (527 comments) says:

    Thought #2
    “In fact, leftists of an internationalist tradition have always favoured globalization and getting rid of national borders and barriers to migration.”

    Ships have bulkheads and watertight compartments for a reason. We call these “national borders.”

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  40. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    it will be interesting to see if any of these israeli kids purposely trained to target particularly vulnerable prey with their dead sea products will be prosecuted for working illegally while on student visa’s here.

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  41. dime (9,667 comments) says:

    “it will be interesting to see if any of these israeli kids purposely trained to target particularly vulnerable prey with their dead sea products will be prosecuted for working illegally while on student visa’s here.”

    piss off luc. youre the most hateful person on this blog. give yourself an uppercut

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  42. lilman (931 comments) says:

    Judith nice effort this morning,was scrolling through and saw the large post so went back to see who wrote it,usually posts that long have Penny Bright attached to them.

    Sorry I didn’t get through it,not your fault,Very early for that much reading.
    Did you sleep last night worrying about John Key,must have been on your mind?
    If I were you I would give up on the left,David Cunliffe only needs one word to be written.

    “Temporary” Ideas,stances,policies and leadership.

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  43. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Can UT translate for us? http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/06/isis-mocks-obama-in-latest-video-obama-did-you-prepare-enough-diapers-for-your-soldiers/

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  44. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    what was hateful about that? p.s five years late with the uppercut saying.

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  45. G152 (232 comments) says:

    You can follow Goneliffe with a bucket and spade and save those who walk in his shadow

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  46. stephieboy (2,539 comments) says:

    Gulag1917 (558 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 8:27 am.

    In a couple of lines this reviewer has got it right about Paul Craig Roberts and his tter baloney,

    http://www.amazon.com/How-America-Was-Lost-Warfare/product-reviews/0986036293/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_one?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

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  47. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    @ lilman (831 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 9:47 am

    You silly Muppet, I didn’t write the blardy thing, I copied and pasted it from the linked site. It took me all of 30 seconds, and yes I was awake at the time. I sleep just fine, thanks for your concern. I don’t worry about Jonzo, Miss Piggy and rest of the Muppets, and the fact that Kermit now leads the red team, is nothing but hilarious.

    It’s so nice to see you living up to your name, that little man syndromes a buggar, ain’t it? ;-)

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  48. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    To go off on a tangent: migration destroys international diversity. Imagine three nations (AAA, BBB and CCC). If their populations migrated evenly, you’d be left with (ABC, ABC, ABC); i.e., three identical countries (0 diversity). Sure, there would be diversity, but on a local level. It’s ironic that globalization tends to destroy diversity at a national level.

    Imagine three communities of South Africa (AAA, BBB and CCC). If their populations mingled evenly, you’d be left with (ABC, ABC, ABC); i.e., three identical communities (0 diversity). Sure, there would be diversity, but on the local level. It’s ironic that ending apartheid tends to destroy diversity at a community level.

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  49. lilman (931 comments) says:

    lol,your explaining again Judith.
    Sorry I didnt pick up a cut and paste,I saw your name and stopped reading past that.

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  50. Nigel Kearney (918 comments) says:

    If we can just find an opener…

    No. Apart from Latham, our best six batsmen are Williamson, Taylor, McCullum, Ryder, Neesham and Watling. One of them needs to open. If we had a specialist opener who was nearly as good as they are it might be different. But we don’t have anyone close.

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  51. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    Sean Plunket is saying information taken from the internet against child immunization isn’t valid. Forget the moa this dodo is good for a real feeding frenzy.

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  52. questions (186 comments) says:

    Reposted from yesterday:

    I can see how the policy appeals to Act and the rest of you free marketeers, but I don’t think, with the size of the graduations in the margin that you find, when applying the policy to reality, that it is workable.

    Putting the policy into practice, vouchers are handed out to the parents, who then put in for the places, like every year, Epsom Girls Grammar School is over subscribed for places, more parents want to send their children there than they can fit.

    The school can’t rustle up extra classrooms and teachers on the spot to meet this demand, nor is this demand new, still only x number of students get in (that is x number of parents get their choice, y number don’t, regardless of how you select).

    No additional places in the school are provided, and regardless of how the selection of students is made (in zone then ballot, or some other system), the same number of parents get their choice in school, how does this provide additional parental choice?

    Additionally how is the voucher system providing any more information to the school and the Ministry than the existing ballot system does?

    All of the students each year need to be placed in a school, so regardless of where the parents want to spend their vouchers, they are being spent at the school the student ends up getting accepted into.

    This is great, and we can see which schools are more in demand, and should be growing, but this isn’t new information, it is known under the current system, so how do vouchers better enable parents to signal where they want their child to go?

    So while the money from the vouchers isn’t going to the in demand school, the school knows if it expands, it can fill those extra places (again, this is not knowledge gained from the voucher system, it can be determined from existing application numbers). Two options: new classrooms, or taking over the facilities of another school.

    Option 1: The schools build new classrooms where they can, remembering that A space is often limited at existing sites, and traveling back and fourth between far apart campus’ is not practical, and B, the size of graduations at the margin, especially in high schools. At high schools where different subject areas are largely taught by different teachers, once class sizes are maxed out for physical space, you can’t efficiently just take another class worth of students, you have to take several in order to be able to utilize teachers across different subject areas. The graduations at the margin are big jumps, you can’t sell 1 additional education widget, you have to sell 3-5 classes worth, and this amount of expansion is often not physically possible within existing school grounds, or affordable given property values.

    Option 2: Taking over facilities from other schools. Again, travel between different sites is not ideal or practical given the traveling distance, time and logistics, so taking over a few rooms at a time from a school isn’t going to work (and if it could practically work, it is going to result in some rather strange school environments). Taking over a whole school might be practical, this however denies choice to the parents who want to send their children to that school, for the benefit of parents who want them sent to another (and probably not the “second tier campus”), again, there is very little if any at all net increase in parents getting their first choice.

    This is great, and I absolutely agree that it should be done in all schools that are consistently over subscribed, but in reality it is often not possible, and again, vouchers in no way contribute to this

    Option 2 expanded: Perhaps a situation arises where by a schools demand exceeds its capacity by such an extent that removing that removing the choice of the parents of a less popular school, in order to provide more places for a more popular school becomes viable, and the more popular school can completely take over the facility of the less popular school. Great, maybe a small net benefit in parental choice, and the management of the school is replaced, presumably the teachers also, but who is going to staff it? It is not like there are large numbers of qualified teachers sitting around, waiting to opt back into teaching, if only there were more teaching spaces available at top schools. In case you hadn’t noticed, teaching pays rubbish, and teachers are in it for the job satisfaction of teaching, making students smarter, not sitting around waiting for top roles at high performing schools.

    This is great, High Performance High Demand High School has taken over the facilities of Low Performance Low Demand High School (notice also the assumption here that performance directly translates into demand), better teachers have been conjured up, places filled, vouchers paid, but vouchers have in no way contributed to this, all the numbers required to get to this situation are known though the existing zoning and ballot system

    I simply do not believe that changing to a system of vouchers over the existing system provides anything new by which to make decisions with, given the physical realities of schools, children, teachers and classes. In the example given of products in a super market, absolutely the argument applies, production can be scaled, there are small graduations at the margin, and information around actual demand for any given product is harder to determine through central control, due to things like product substitution.

    There are of course some unspoken things here, no one has said if a voucher can be redeemed at a private school, a normal person would expect that private schools being private schools, an education voucher for government funding couldn’t be redeemed there, somehow coming from Act I expect otherwise (and they should be honest with the public and explicitly state if this is the case).

    I think the only net change we would see from this is (even) more public funding flowing into private schools, which is a nice discount for those who can afford it in the first place (my what a high proportion of Act voters this is?), but still no net change in educational outcomes.

    If Act wants to give more money to private schools then they should say so, they shouldn’t put this within a trojan horse of education vouchers, which don’t provide any benefit for the students, the decision makers in the ministry, or the parents trying to exercise a choice.

    There is a lot of explaining left to do on this policy.

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  53. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    @ lilman (832 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 10:03 am

    Silly me, I was bought up at a time when if someone asked a question, one answered with an explanation. It used to be manners, but you seem to think it is rude – I guess that says a lot about ‘little man’ philosophy.

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  54. Brian Smaller (4,028 comments) says:

    Shocking atrocity .

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2675451/Bodies-three-Jewish-settlers-went-missing-near-Hebron-near-West-Bank-city.html

    Look at the eyes of the alleged kidnappers who are on the run. Dead. I can’t see any humanity there at all.

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  55. MT_Tinman (3,052 comments) says:

    questions (162 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 10:15 am
    Reposted from yesterday:

    Why, for god’s sake?

    Why?

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  56. Odakyu-sen (527 comments) says:

    Nice perspective, Ryan, but I am focusing on the national level; not the community level.

    Apartheid operated within a nation. I am concerned about operations between nations.

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  57. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    if the measure of humanity is the continued violation of international law by building illegal settlements on occupied Palestinian land – you have made a wonderful case.

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  58. Odakyu-sen (527 comments) says:

    “Birds of a feather flock together”
    Somehow I don’t think the leftists of an internationalist tradition would approve of the birds’ attitude.

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  59. kowtow (7,951 comments) says:

    Note the international media language .If the murdered had been Arabs ,they would be teenagers or children.

    But they are Israeli Jews so are “settlers”.The code being “they shouldn’t have been there” as the new towns are always referred to as “illegal settlements” in the “occupied West Bank”.

    The media are complicit.

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  60. Odakyu-sen (527 comments) says:

    Kowtow commented: “The media are complicit.”

    But, but, but… how could the “media” be anti Israeli? Are we not told by conspiracy experts that the “Jews” control the Western media? (Maybe they are “anti-Israeli Jews.”)

    Could it be possible that the conspiracy experts are wrong, and that someone else is controlling the “media”? I wonder who that could be?

    //

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  61. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    it isn’t code. The law is clear. Israel must withdraw from the occupied territories. The fact that israel refuses to comply and yet demand adherence to international law in other instances is, as the saying goes, beyond chutzpah.

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  62. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Which particular International Law are you talking about? Which borders?
    Hang on, but that is Jordanian sovereign land that is occupied. And those settlements were Jewish Settlements before 1948.

    OK, so it was offered completely for peace in 2000. Did the Arabs accept? No!
    Gaza was given up. Peace? Nope, its worse.

    Chutzpah is you, buddy.

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  63. Elaycee (4,332 comments) says:

    Luc / Numb Nuts / et al: …occupied Palestinian land…

    Geography fail.

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  64. Colville (2,190 comments) says:

    hmmok/dime

    Yeah I have done it 3 times before. First time 9 years ago last time last year.

    Last 5 Kms of the run has 550 meters of climb and a lot of that is going up a waterfall.

    Last year it was 6 degrees, raining and about 5 meters visibility at the start line, I did 3.31 for the 21 kms. Very very cold day out.

    I hope to get close to 3.00 this year. Hope for fine and dry.

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  65. Tauhei Notts (1,650 comments) says:

    Does anybody else remember that well shown Tv advert from years ago that went……
    Trust British Paints……..
    Sure Can!
    I doubt we will ever see it again.

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  66. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    @ MT_Tinman (2,931 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 10:20 am

    Why? I suspect so it would give you the opportunity to post an insightful, intelligent and excellent response – instead you…

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  67. Odakyu-sen (527 comments) says:

    The Middle East should be grateful that it has the hard-working, innovative, business/job-creating, make-the-desert-bloom Israelis as neighbors. Think of how much better off the Arab populations would be if they took lessons from the examples the Israelis have set, and applied these in their own countries. …

    (Sorry, what’s that from the back of the room…) (Trying to make that out…)

    Someone is shouting something at me. I can’t quite get what he’s saying… Can anyone tell me what it is?

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  68. Other_Andy (2,515 comments) says:

    Well, that makes a mockery of the suppression order in the Internet age for the foreign diplomat accused of assault.
    Just Google it using the key words and read the newspapers from his home country…..
    And sadly enough I and some other posters (Kowtow and DG) here were right when they posted their educated guess on Kiwiblog.

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  69. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    you can pull out all the bibles and fast talk bullshit you have regarding borders – it won’t make a scrap of difference. Either we act in accordance with the law or we have the continued ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people and the murder of israeli hitchhiker teens as a direct result. The choice is clear.

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  70. ross411 (295 comments) says:

    Judith (6,881 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 10:16 am
    Silly me, I was bought up at a time when if someone asked a question, one answered with an explanation. It used to be manners, but you seem to think it is rude – I guess that says a lot about ‘little man’ philosophy.

    Helen,

    Look, I know that the life over there working for the UN grates on you, when you see what David “Bungle” Cunliffe and the rest of the troughers, are doing to the party you manipulated into a position of power. But times have changed, posting tedious and frankly head scratchingly sad and boring propaganda here, is beneath you.

    Grab that I love NZ coffee mug take a hard swig of the A grade coffee that counts as part of the job benefits, and sack up. Bring your A game. Not this sad half hearted and tedious drivel, you’re copying and reposting.

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  71. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    @ Other_Andy (2,167 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 11:03 am

    I sort of hoped it would be someone from France, we already have historical ‘issues’ with them. Now it will just reignite the debate of a couple of weeks ago. I so hate Groundhog politics.

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  72. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Again I ask – Which Law?
    http://timgoz.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/julie-bishop-dont-call-settlements.html

    You can’t actually name it. You’re great at the bullshit buzzwords “Ethnic Cleansing”.

    However, murdering and kidnapping and firing rockets at civilians and trying to invade countries. That is all illegal.

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  73. ross411 (295 comments) says:

    Dom Knots (113 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 11:05 am
    you can pull out all the bibles and fast talk bullshit you have regarding borders – it won’t make a scrap of difference. Either we act in accordance with the law or we have the continued ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people and the murder of israeli hitchhiker teens as a direct result. The choice is clear.

    Any time someone tells you there is a clear choice, there likely isn’t, and the one they portray as ‘the clear choice’ is simply the one that forwards their agenda.

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  74. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    So, Jake the Peg is guilty on 12 charges…well well…

    I recall him recording a song for kids here 100 years ago…the words went something like: “My body’s nobody’s body but mine..you mind your own body…let me mind mine.”

    Seems as if old Rolf wasn’t quite as concerned at teaching kids to protect themselves as the happy lyrics suggest…

    Whaddaya reckon on sentence? If they send him to jail it may well be a life sentence for an 84 year old sex offender..

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  75. Don the Kiwi (1,649 comments) says:

    The diplomat sent home – when the news first broke, I said to my wife that I’ll bet he is muslim.

    Bingo !!

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  76. Other_Andy (2,515 comments) says:

    “Either we act in accordance with the law or we have the continued ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people and the murder of Israeli hitchhiker teens as a direct result.”

    Here we have a strawman followed up by a threat…
    Do as I say or we will kill the Jews….

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  77. Fletch (6,150 comments) says:

    The big news today in the U.S is that the Supreme Court has ruled 5-4 that Hobby Lobby does not have to pay for abortion-inducing contraceptive drugs for their employees through employer health insurance. Of course, the Left is jumping up and down and foaming at the mouth, going on about an attack on “women’s health”.

    In a 5-4 decision with a splintered dissent, the Supreme Court held that the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) cannot mandate a closely held corporation to violate the religious beliefs of its owner by providing four abortion-inducing drugs. Specifically, the court held that the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993 requires the government to accommodate such corporations just as it does not-for-profit corporations because the contraceptive mandate substantially burdens the owners’ religious beliefs and there are less-restrictive means of providing contraception (the government can pay for it directly).

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/06/30/hobby-lobbys-win-for-religious-freedom/?hpid=z3

    In other good news, the union-friendly appointments that Obama made to the National Labor Relations Board made while Congress was in recess (it really wasn’t) have been ruled by SCOTUS to be illegal.

    The Supreme Court ruled unanimously Thursday that President Obama exceeded his constitutional authority in making high-level government appointments in 2012 when he declared the Senate to be in recess and unable to act on the nominations.

    Obama made appointments to the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) at a time when the Senate was holding pro forma sessions every three days precisely to thwart the president’s ability to exercise the power.

    “The Senate is in session when it says it is,” Justice Stephen G. Breyer wrote for the court, stressing that if the Senate is able to conduct business, that is enough to keep the president from making recess appointments.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-rebukes-obama-on-recess-appointments/2014/06/26/e5e4fefa-e831-11e3-a86b-362fd5443d19_story.html

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  78. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (6,023 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 11:13 am

    Given his age it might be home detention as looking after his health issues may be a problem.

    How safe is his fortune? What are the laws on compensation in the UK?

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  79. Colville (2,190 comments) says:

    *********** reported that Foreign Minister Anifah Aman had replied in a text message that he will weigh in on the matter at the press conference tomorrow. – June 30, 2014.

    ********* redacted name of news paper.

    Hopefully we will get a comment from the offenders country today?

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  80. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    I hope for the sake of the youth of israel that it isn’t too late ever to live in peace as Palestinian people have done in the past with their israeli neighbors.

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  81. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi…do tell….I haven’t seen the man’s country of residence identified…I also picked a Muslim nation…dear old PG and Milky Mild told me off for “stereotyping”…funny how those stereotypes have a way of proving accurate…

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  82. SGA (959 comments) says:

    Don at 11:16 am

    The diplomat sent home – when the news first broke, I said to my wife that I’ll bet he is muslim.

    Odds on, but, if I’ve picked the country correctly, by no matter guaranteed.

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  83. Jack5 (4,900 comments) says:

    Our foreign owned print-media chain, Fairfucked NZ, continues its multilculturalism propaganda.

    It says its “Faces of Auckland” feature celebrates the city being “one of the most multicultural cities in the world”.

    In fact the series show advantages of “multiculturalism” have been trite. A wider range of takeaways from fast food outlets, and refugees pledging to help more refugees.

    No discussion in the series (or its newspapers generally) of American-style assimilation v. multiculturalism, or evidence of benefits beyond the the greater range of takeaways. No weighing of economic costs v. economic benefits. No mention on how it stacks up against NZ’s traditional biculturalism. No suggestion of how there are losses from multiculturalism as well as gains. Of course, definitely no discussion of how NZ surreptitiously swung to multiculturalism without political debate or any chance for voters to express an opinion let alone vote on the policy.

    ALSO: On Saturday, readers of Fairfucked’s Christchurch Press were treated to an awaited sequel to its earlier whitewashing of overseas reports that two Australians killed with Islamic extremists in Yemen had been radicalised at the Christchurch mosque.

    Was this true? Had the newspaper finished its digging?

    The second part of the saga on Saturday was a PR piece for the mosque. Something the Christchurch Press would never do for born-again Christians, or for Jehovah’s Witnesses or Brethren, and perhaps not even for the more conservative branch of Anglicanism. I doubt the newspaper has ever done anything similar for its Jewish synagogue in Christchurch.

    Being warm and fuzzy about Islam in Christchurch might make the Christchurch Press feel it’s doing something morally superior – boosting multiculturalism. If so, it’s too stupid to realise that promoting Islam is promoting the world’s most fanatically monoculturalist ideology, whose idea of assimilation is lopping off the heads of non-believers, and imprisoning new mothers who had been raised by their Christian mothers rather than their Muslim fathers.

    If there is a country which is more blindly multiculturalist than NZ it is Canada, and some critics of the phenomenon there are talking of multiculturalism as if it were a cult. Perhaps they are right.

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  84. Elaycee (4,332 comments) says:

    @David Garrett: email coming your way….

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  85. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    I hope for the sake of the youth of israel that it isn’t too late ever to live in peace as Palestinian people have done in the past with their israeli neighbors.

    See, now you are starting to make some sense. Before the 1987 Intifada, there was no walls no borders, freedom of travel.
    The quality of life of Palestinians rose dramatically than under Jordanian rule. Many Palestinians worked in Israel.

    Then Arafat started the violence.
    Then the radical movements such as Hamas rose.

    The Israeli Arabs still maintain a peaceful co-existence.

    Israel has been waiting at the peace table (has been since 2000). In the meantime, they need ugly walls to keep out Suicide Bombers.

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  86. Don the Kiwi (1,649 comments) says:

    David.
    I googled, as others above suggested.

    SGA

    True, but as it is a muslim country, it is extremely unlikely that a Christian would be a diplomat – or Budhist.

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  87. ShawnLH (4,434 comments) says:

    Illinois mom elated after defeating powerful union in Supreme Court.

    “An Illinois woman who took her fight against one of the nation’s most powerful unions all the way to the Supreme Court and won, said all she ever wanted was to care for her ailing son.

    Pam Harris, the lead plaintiff in the landmark Harris v. Quinn case, in which the high court ruled people who care for loved ones in their home can’t be compelled to join the Service Employees International Union, said the ruling was a victory for her son Josh, who suffers from a rare genetic disorder.

    “It means no third party intrusion, it means that there’s not going to be a union contract inserted between my son and I, there’s not going to be union rules and regulations dictating how I can provide the care that Josh needs,” she said.”

    “I don’t rock the boat. But when it comes to taking public funding intended for people with disabilities, someone has to stand up.” – Pam Harris.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/30/illinois-mom-elated-after-defeating-powerful-union-in-supreme-court/

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  88. SGA (959 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi at 11:36 am

    it is extremely unlikely that a Christian would be a diplomat – or Budhist.

    Budhists are an american sect known for their poor taste in beer, aren’t they? (sorry, couldn’t resist)

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  89. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Ah…the country involved is now out there….better wait for someone to do it here first though…Who knows what weasels are watching…ready to run off to the Law Society…

    but back to Jake the Peg…according to the Herald website the Judge has warned him jail is a real possibility…and surprise surprise, a whole lot of new accusers have emerged from the wood work…If he IS actually guilty he has brought it all on himself…and I somehow cant see four different complainants all making it up…

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  90. Random Punter (65 comments) says:

    Dime @9.23 am: “Kane is now averaging over 40!”

    Interesting table on Cricinfo the other day showing that Williamson is ahead of where Martin Crowe was at the same stage of their careers. At the same age, Crowe had 7 centuries and 6 fifties, while Williamson has 7 centuries and 14 fifties, from approximately the same number of games, though Crowe had played slightly fewer innings.

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  91. kowtow (7,951 comments) says:

    Separation of church and state.

    That has been reversed ,and now the state coerces the church.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/denmark_orders_church_to_hold_same_sex_marriages/

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  92. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    ..and then back to the diplomat from X…I think we were discussing the futility of suppression orders in the Internet Age just the other day…As I think I said in that discussion, anyone with a computer and some idea of how to use it can now find out “stuff” the courts have suppressed…Even easier when the person is a foreign national whose media is not subject to a NZ court’s jurisdiction..

    Allahu Akbar..

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  93. Don the Kiwi (1,649 comments) says:

    Allahu Akhbar indeed :-)

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  94. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    the only table israel has been waiting at is the one with a moveable feast on it, Tim.

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  95. Fletch (6,150 comments) says:

    the only table Israel has been waiting at is the one with the moveable feast on it, Tim.

    No, Israel uprooted 8000 of their people from Gaza and gave it to the Palestinians in 2005 – part of the ‘road map to peace’ or whatever name it was going by. And what did they get? Hamas voted in and missiles lobbed from Gaza into Israel. To be honest, I wouldn’t have the patience of Israel.

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  96. Ashley Schaeffer (443 comments) says:

    Could one of our politicians use Parliamentary Privilege to out this scumbag predator diplomat from country x?

    We should be expelling the rest of the diplomats from that country until their Government does the right thing.

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  97. Other_Andy (2,515 comments) says:

    @Fletch

    Who are those ersatz people you call the “Palestinians”?

    Those Jew haters occupying much of Israel are a collection of diverse Arab clans plus a smattering of other ethnic groups such as Serbs — these are the so-called Bosnian Muslims who were Serbian Orthodox Christians before their forced conversion to Islam — as well as Circassians and Chechens, all imported by the Ottoman Empire from their lands of origin to the Middle East.
    Only since 1967 they publicly declared themselves to be a distinct ethnic nation named after those very same defunct Philistines this despite the fact that the ancient Philistines were not even Arabs.
    ‘Palestinians’ have no identity other than as the instrument of Israel’s destruction.
    No history, no ancient kings, no ancient texts, songs, or dances no language.
    Their modern heroes are famous for murder and destruction.

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  98. Don the Kiwi (1,649 comments) says:

    If the Palestinians declared they were surrendering their arms and going to live in peace, there would be peace.

    If the Israelis declared they were surrendering their arms and going to live in peace, they would be wiped out.

    Jordan is the “Palestinian State” – why don’t they go there. They were never in Israel in the first place. Or if they were they were treated properly and had citizenship and all the rights that go with it.
    -

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  99. Fletch (6,150 comments) says:

    Other_Andy, so true. I was just using the name in the interest of expediency. Palestine was the name given by the Romans to that whole geographical area, much the same way the British gave the name “Antipodes” to Australia and New Zealand here down under.

    It would be the same if a group of people called themselves ‘Antipodeans” and said they wanted a slice of the country here.

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  100. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Ashley: short answer, Yes… he or she would get a telling off from the Speaker, and possibly even sent home for the day, but that’s about it…

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  101. Ashley Schaeffer (443 comments) says:

    Thanks DG. Then I think Key should be the one to do it. Show some real balls. Would be a vote winner.

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  102. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Andy
    ‘Palestinian’ is the accepted term for the Muslim and Christian Arab inhabitants of the old British mandate are of Palestine.

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  103. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘They were never in Israel in the first place. Or if they were’
    Make up your mind.

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  104. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    what they gave wasn’t theirs to give fletch. and they havent gone anywhere. they still control the airspace etc. it really would be so much more helpful if israel could just comply with international law and remove itself from the occupied territories while we discuss it all from a safe distance, chaps.

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  105. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Hubby’s raise made us $150/wk poorer

    I am a married mum of two children aged 5 and 4.

    My 5-year-old is at school and in a before and after school care programme and my 4-year-old is in full time in day care.

    Neither my husband nor I smoke or drink, we eat relatively healthy and we don’t buy a lot of extras. We own a house and have the normal bills, but without both of us working, we would not be able to survive. This is the case for so many families these days.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/assignments/working-for-your-family/9776052/Hubbys-raise-made-us-150-wk-poorer

    It’s these stories you Kiwi Bloggers never bring up that tells me all your whinging is so much crap.

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  106. Fletch (6,150 comments) says:

    Dom Knots, there are no “occupied territories”. Israel has been in the same place for thousands of years. In contrast, there is no such thing as a Palestinian language, culture, or people. It is a fiction.

    Even a Muslim scholar in Egypt says that Israel belongs to the Jews until the day of Judgement.

    [...]the Koran [says] Allah assigned Israel to the Jews until the Day of Judgement (Sura 5 Verse 21), and that Jews are the inheritors of Israel (Sura 26 Verse 59).

    “I say to those who distort…the Koran: from where did you bring the name Palestine, you liars, you accursed, when Allah has already named it ‘The Holy Land’ and bequeathed it to the Children of Israel until the Day of Judgment,” argued Adwan. “There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in the Koran.”

    In March 1977, Zahir Muhsein, an executive member of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), said in an interview to the Dutch newspaper Trouw:

    The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people’ to oppose Zionism.

    For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

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  107. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    @ wikiriwhis business (3,704 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    It’s these stories you Kiwi Bloggers never bring up that tells me all your whinging is so much crap.

    Please don’t share stories of real situations, too much reality is bad for this lot. They prefer illusions. They are obedient compliant non-thinkers. Be nice to them :-)

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  108. Other_Andy (2,515 comments) says:

    mikenmild (10,304 comments) says:

    ‘Palestinian’ is the accepted term for the Muslim and Christian Arab inhabitants of the old British mandate are of Palestine.

    No it isn’t, you are making things up.
    The British used the term Palestinians, but applied the term only to the Jewish inhabitants of the region.

    And of course you know also that Zahir Muhsein, of the Palestinian National Council, told the Dutch newspaper Trouw as far back as 1977, “The Palestinian people does not exist. … Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people…to oppose Zionism.”

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  109. lilman (931 comments) says:

    Mallard, give him credit for his latest discovery.

    Not the Moa but he has shown us the Dodo is still around.

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  110. Paulus (2,565 comments) says:

    In the Rolf Harris case I hear from UK that the magazines are fighting with very big pounds/dollars for the complainents stories, and others not involved are hawking their stories too.

    Pity News of the World no longer exists as they would have recordings.

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  111. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    The whole ‘there are no such people as Palestinians’ thing is just made up by people who want to legitimise the Israeli occupation of the whole area. Simple as that.

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  112. UrbanNeocolonialist (233 comments) says:

    Quick google search now reveals diplomats nationality, being reported in their home press. Nationality just as suspected. Don’t expect the corrupt misogynists of this country to punish the guy – diplomatic posts are generally give to those with a lot of pull.

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  113. kowtow (7,951 comments) says:

    The occupation is by Arab Muslims.The area was “Arabized” and then went into terminal decline lasting hundreds of years. It was the Jewish returnees who made the place a modern democracy.

    Too bad that can’t be said for any Muslim Arab state.

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  114. Other_Andy (2,515 comments) says:

    mikenmild says:

    “The whole ‘there are no such people as Palestinians’ thing is just made up by people……”

    Hey, you are the one who makes things up!

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  115. Fletch (6,150 comments) says:

    Actually, if you want to talk about Palestine, then (historically) you should be looking at Jordan. Many Jordanian leaders have said so in the past.

    Here is Melanie Phillips on the subject –

    Anyone familiar with the history knows it is correct [that 'Palestine' is Jordan]. Immediately after World War One, Palestine consisted of what is now Jordan, Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. The great powers dividing up the region decided that Britain should be given a mandate to administer Palestine and restore within it the historic Jewish national home. Within a couple of years, however, Winston Churchill, for reasons of realpolitik, gave away three quarters of Palestine to the Hashemite dynasty to found (Trans)Jordan (leaving all the rest to be settled by the Jews; but that’s another story).

    So Jordan is indeed Palestine. As Camie Davis points out, the Arabs themselves repeatedly said so:

    Jordanians, for decades, were avid proponents of the ‘Jordan is Palestine’ position. They used that position as justification for the annexation of the West Bank, arguing that Palestine was one single, indivisible unit, and that Jordan was the legitimate governing body of Palestine…

    ‘We are the government of Palestine, the army of Palestine and the refugees of Palestine.’ Prime Minister of Jordan, Hazza’ al-Majali, 23 August 1959

    ‘Palestine and Transjordan are one.’ King Abdullah, Arab League meeting in Cairo, 12 April 1948

    ‘Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is one people and one land, with one history and one and the same fate.’ Prince Hassan, brother of King Hussein, addressing the Jordanian National Assembly, 2 February 1970

    ‘Jordan is not just another Arab state with regard to Palestine, but rather, Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan in terms of territory, national identity, sufferings, hopes and aspirations.’ Jordanian Minister of Agriculture, 24 September 1980

    ‘The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan.’ King Hussein 1981

    Indeed, until 1970 the Palestine Liberation Organisation conducted terrorist operations against Jordan on the grounds that it was Palestine and the Hashemite minority was ruling the Palestinian majority. It was only after Jordan killed thousands of Palestinians in ‘Black September’ (and who in the west ever cared about that??) that Israel suddenly became the sole historic homeland’ of the Palestinians and Jordan was airbrushed out of the picture — and the fabrication of ‘Palestinianism’ became the accepted truth.

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  116. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    So you would like the West Bank to be part of Jordan?

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  117. Elaycee (4,332 comments) says:

    Israel will never be beaten, Milkmilo. In our lifetime, a few have tried (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria etc) and they were all spanked.

    Unless the current terrorist campaign is stopped by Hamas, you can be sure Israel will end it – at a time and place of Israel’s choosing. And when it happens, sooks such as yourself will bleat and whinge because Israel lanced the boil once and for all.

    Whilst most of us will applaud from afar.

    Simple as that.

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  118. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    The whole ‘there are no such people as Palestinians’ thing is just made up by people who want to legitimise the Israeli occupation of the whole area. Simple as that.

    Yep. Easiest way to ignore people’s suffering is to define them out of existence.

    Gaza is being bombed right now, as I write this. Collective punishment for the murder of three Israeli teens, it seems, though ostensibly collective punishment for some rockets that started a fire in Sderot.

    One 16-year-old Palestinian kid dead so far, at least, killed in bombing.

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  119. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Ah Ryan. Welcome Mr. Apologist for Terrorists.

    There are Rockets coming out of Gaza. That is OK with you. Fuck off.

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  120. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    Ah Ryan. Welcome Mr. Apologist for Terrorists.

    There are Rockets coming out of Gaza. That is OK with you. Fuck off.

    That’s not okay with me, Tim. Grow up.

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  121. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    Apologies, Tim. That was snappy of me.

    The rockets coming out of Gaza are not okay with me. But they do not justify the collective punishment being inflicted on the much broader population of Palestinians right now. That’s all I’m saying.

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  122. kowtow (7,951 comments) says:

    No targets in Gaza are being hit in retaliation for yet more rocket attacks on Israel. This round predates the discovery of the 3 murdered youngsters.

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  123. Other_Andy (2,515 comments) says:

    mikenmild says:

    “So you would like the West Bank to be part of Jordan?”

    More made-up words.
    It is Judea and Samaria.

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  124. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    So you are all for self-determination by Judeans and Samaritans?

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  125. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    OK Ryan, so what’s your solution? How much restraint has been shown by Israel? More than every other government in the world. What is the collective crime of Israeli people that they deserve Rockets fired at civilian targets?

    How much effort does Israel take to target the threats and not Innocent people? A Lot, and you know it.

    It’s so easy for you to bang on and complain, but you are ignoring the root cause, which is Hamas. What pressure are you putting on Hamas to stop Terrorist activity? None.

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  126. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘you are ignoring the root cause, which is Hamas.’
    What caused the rise of Hamas?

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  127. FeralScrote (126 comments) says:

    A news site of the unnamed diplomat and country is reporting that there will be a news conference and a senior official is indicating said diplomat will be returned to NZ if they can be assured that he will get a fair trial and his life will not be in danger.

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  128. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    “What caused the rise of Hamas?”

    Milky, I guess you want to blame Israel for the worldwide rise of Islamic Fundamentalism, who brainwash children, and kill non devout Muslims. Who Arafat himself was so afraid that he preferred to side with Israel.

    You’re not very good with Logic, are you. Nor very understanding of history or the world works. 10,000+ comments of crapola, what a waste.

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  129. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    OK Ryan, so what’s your solution? How much restraint has been shown by Israel? More than every other government in the world.

    How much effort does Israel take to target the threats and not Innocent people? A Lot, and you know it.

    It’s so easy for you to bang on and complain, but you are ignoring the root cause, which is Hamas. What pressure are you putting on Hamas to stop Terrorist activity? None.

    I don’t think that the root cause is Hamas, for a start. And when I see people cheering on terrorism committed by Hamas, I call them on it. But generally I don’t see that – generally I see people cheering on terrorism committed by Israel. So I spend more time calling that out.

    You talk about Israel showing restraint in the face of Hamas provocation. Do you think that Hamas should show less or more restraint in the face of Israeli provocation?

    For example, if Israeli settlers bulldoze a Palestinian farm, how violent should Hamas’s reaction be towards Israel or those settlers?

    Or like when, six weeks ago, two Palestinian teenagers were shot dead by IDF soldiers, and surveillance was leaked showing that they were just walking peacefully down the street. If that happened, how much restraint should be shown?

    And if someone said, “Hamas shouldn’t fire rockets at Israeli towns in retaliation for Palestinian teenagers being shot dead by IDF soldiers,” would you be telling that person: “There are children being shot dead by IDF soldiers. This is OK with you. Fuck off.”?

    Nobody’s saying that it’s a simple situation. But these incidents are reported differently and discussed differently from each other. If two Israeli teens walking home in Israel had been shot dead by Hamas snipers, there would be an outcry. The Jerusalem Post reported on these Palestinian children being shot, as did the New York Times and the Times of Israel, but no one else. (Oh, my mistake, the Guardian mentioned it a month later, after the autopsy.)

    According to Google, there are 2,374 articles over the last few weeks about the Israeli teens kidnapped by Palestinian terrorists.

    I hope you do not interpret my highlighting this difference in Western media reporting as an approval of kidnapping or a lack of condemnation of kidnapping teenagers.

    As for my solution? I would start, at a bare minimum, by dismantling the illegal settlements and start talking reparations to the families whose property was destroyed to create them. Very very publicly.

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  130. Ashley Schaeffer (443 comments) says:

    A news site of the unnamed diplomat and country is reporting that there will be a news conference and a senior official is indicating said diplomat will be returned to NZ if they can be assured that he will get a fair trial and his life will not be in danger.

    That’s a bit rich coming from that Government. Projecting much?

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  131. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    That’s a bit rich coming from that Government. Projecting much?

    Do we know which Government it is? I haven’t been following.

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  132. dime (9,667 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/assignments/working-for-your-family/9776052/Hubbys-raise-made-us-150-wk-poorer

    sorry, am i meant to have sympathy? because the dude got a pay increase and now they get less bene’s? boo fucking hoo

    OR

    are they point out how silly all this middle class welfare actually is? if so, well done.

    but it came from stuff so i doubt it

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  133. Ashley Schaeffer (443 comments) says:

    Do we know which Government it is? I haven’t been following.

    Only if you Google it. It is still suppressed AFAIK.

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  134. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Oh come on Ryan. What Hamas Restraint? Seriously? They have been actively importing weapons as much as possible, and then use it in a purely offensive capability.

    There is no Israeli incursion to Gaza to bulldoze farms that you talk of. Not that it would matter to Hamas. Peace is a form of surrender in their eternal war.

    You may not like people “crowing” about Hamas Terrorism, but you are certainly an apologist. Keen to make excuses or pretend like it doesn’t exist.

    Israel has a Military court, and if soldiers abuse it they are court martialled. Hamas will shoot you and drag your body through the streets behind a motorcycle if you don’t support their terrorist activities. The boys you mention were not “walking down the street” – there was a Riot. Israeli soldiers have been killed in Riots. It made the Israeli newspapers too, you know.

    You talk about “property” destroyed to create “illegal” settlements. When settlements were built on Israeli land from pre-1948, then whose land was destroyed?

    Given every peace agreement that has offered land swaps has been thwarted by the Palestinian authority, then I guess your solution seems a little thin.

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  135. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘every peace agreement that has offered land swaps’
    By ‘land swaps’ I guess you really mean offers to return some of the occupied territories.

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  136. kowtow (7,951 comments) says:

    Ritual slaughter F’ugly and his new found and “shaken” disciple n’arsekiser will believe anything.

    http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/1422_crikeytuam.pdf

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  137. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    “I guess you really mean offers to return some of the occupied territories.”

    Umm, more than just some. The entire amount, with 50:50 swaps for areas with larger entrenched settlements.

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  138. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    Oh come on Ryan. What Hamas Restraint? Seriously? They have been actively importing weapons as much as possible, and then use it in a purely offensive capability.

    Israel has also been actively importing weapons as much as possible. And yes, both Hamas and Israel have used their weapons offensively, but not exclusively. Both are used within their own borders defensively, surely.

    There is no Israeli incursion to Gaza to bulldoze farms that you talk of. Not that it would matter to Hamas. Peace is a form of surrender in their eternal war.

    Here’s a recent example, Tim – a Palestinian Christian family, this year, with many references to the past decade: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27883685

    You may not like people “crowing” about Hamas Terrorism, but you are certainly an apologist. Keen to make excuses or pretend like it doesn’t exist.

    No more than I am an apologist for Israeli terrorism by recognising that there are reasons the government acts the way it does. Do you excuse Israeli terrorism or pretend that it doesn’t exist?

    Israel has a Military court, and if soldiers abuse it they are court martialled. Hamas will shoot you and drag your body through the streets behind a motorcycle if you don’t support their terrorist activities. The boys you mention were not “walking down the street” – there was a Riot. Israeli soldiers have been killed in Riots. It made the Israeli newspapers too, you know.

    Yes, I listed several of the Israeli newspapers that reported it.

    Here is one of them, which includes the leaked footage. Can you point out the riot in the video? http://www.jpost.com/Defense/PLO-outraged-as-video-shows-deliberate-execution-of-two-Palestinian-teens-by-IDF-352797

    You talk about “property” destroyed to create “illegal” settlements. When settlements were built on Israeli land from pre-1948, then whose land was destroyed?

    Land isn’t really destroyed. Lots of people’s property was destroyed. Are you tending towards a kind of “two wrongs make a right” arithmetic?

    There’s no need to put “illegal” in scare quotes. It’s not contentious.

    Given every peace agreement that has offered land swaps has been thwarted by the Palestinian authority, then I guess your solution seems a little thin.

    The breakdowns of peace negotiations are far more complicated than anything as cartoonish as the evil Palestinian authorities thwarting them. And my solution was not a negotiation. It was a withdrawal from illegally occupied land – the cessation of an ongoing crime.

    If I was speaking to a supporter of Hamas, I would add that a blanket refusal to target non-combatants (like the rockets fired on Sderot) would also be a step in the right direction. I would add that they should also cease any targeting of occupants in settlements, because the Israeli settlers in them keep their children in those communities too, and it’s not possible to avoid risking hurting those children.

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  139. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    This thread show what happens when you are only capable of looking at Israel/Palestine in a binary way. If you believe that Israel is always in the right, then anyone who points out Israeli wrongs must be a supporter of Hamas and terrorists. But the critic of my friend is not necessarily my enemy.

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  140. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    This thread show what happens when you are only capable of looking at Israel/Palestine in a binary way. If you believe that Israel is always in the right, then anyone who points out Israeli wrongs must be a supporter of Hamas and terrorists. But the critic of my friend is not necessarily my enemy.

    It’s a handy rhetorical tool too. If I have to spend all my time explaining that I don’t support Hamas terrorism, there’s no space in the conversation for a discussion of Israel’s actions.

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  141. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Colin James on Silent T and Labour’s woes: http://www.colinjames.co.nz/labours-big-self-education-job-ahead/

    A long shadow will encroach on the Labour party’s pre-election “congress” this weekend: a Green shadow. There will be shorter shadows, too.

    The short shadows are a faltering leadership, bad polls and a spectre looming out of history and off the internet. They add up to a growing sense in the electorate that for a second election in a row Labour is not headed for office.

    A year ago most MPs agreed David Shearer had to go as leader. Now a broadening number concede that Labour under Shearer would not be doing worse than it is under David Cunliffe.

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  142. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Ryan, you seriously are trying to draw an equivalent between Defensive Israeli measures and Offensive Palestinian measures and then

    1) try to call Hamas Rockets Defensive
    2) try to call Israeli Defensive tactics as purely Terrorist

    If you want to flagrantly ignore Israel’s efforts for peace and concessions, including withdrawls, whilst ignoring Palestinian recalcitrance and violence towards their own people,

    If you can equate Israeli policy to Hamas “Kill the Jews” Charter.

    You don’t just need your head read, you need to look at your morals. There is nothing logical there at all.

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  143. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    This thread show what happens when you are only capable of looking at Israel/Palestine in a binary way. If you believe that Israel is always in the right, then anyone who points out Israeli wrongs must be a supporter of Hamas and terrorists. But the critic of my friend is not necessarily my enemy.

    Oh fuck off with your straw man arguments. I’m happy to talk shades of grey, you are the one who is bringing it back to absolutes.

    Compare a shade of grey to the Hamas “agree with us or die” policy.
    You have a fairly substantial Double standard, and you know it.

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  144. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    Ryan, you seriously are trying to draw an equivalent between Defensive Israeli measures and Offensive Palestinian measures and then

    1) try to call Hamas Rockets Defensive
    2) try to call Israeli Defensive tactics as purely Terrorist

    I don’t call Hamas rockets defensive, and I don’t call IDF tactics purely terrorist. (Shades of grey.)

    If you want to flagrantly ignore Israel’s efforts for peace and concessions, including withdrawls, whilst ignoring Palestinian recalcitrance and violence towards their own people,

    I don’t ignore those things. (Shades of grey.)

    If you can equate Israeli policy to Hamas “Kill the Jews” Charter.

    Which I don’t. (Shades of grey.)

    You don’t just need your head read, you need to look at your morals. There is nothing logical there at all.

    Glad we got your misconceptions about my views cleared up there.

    So, what are your thoughts on the Jerusalem Post footage of the teenage boy shot, which you justified as being during a “riot”?

    And if the roles were reversed, and Israeli teens had been shot by Palestinian militants, what would you consider the appropriate amount of restraint to be exercised by the Israeli government?

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  145. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Yes Tim, it’s all about shades of grey. As opposed to the black or white approach you seem to want to bring to the issue.

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  146. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    Yes Tim, it’s all about shades of grey. As opposed to the black or white approach you seem to want to bring to the issue.

    Mikenmild,

    There’s every chance that he genuinely believes that you and I have strongly biased viewpoints in this matter.

    Additionally, there’s every chance that he’s right about that.

    How would we know? And if he was strongly biased, how would he know?

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  147. goldnkiwi (1,174 comments) says:

    They can’t spell Key

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  148. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Well of course I’m strongly biased. I have a strong preference towards reasoned discussion.

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  149. ShawnLH (4,434 comments) says:

    “Well of course I’m strongly biased. I have a strong preference towards reasoned discussion.”

    Bullshit. Most of your comments are dismissive one liners where you call your targets “nutters.”

    That’s hardly reasoned discussion, or discussion at all.

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  150. ShawnLH (4,434 comments) says:

    “Additionally, there’s every chance that he’s right about that.”

    Well yes. You once described the founding of Israel as a form of European colonization displacing the indigenous people.

    That’s not only biased, it has all the historical validity of Alice in Wonderland.

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  151. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Don’t be such a nutter, Shawn.

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  152. ShawnLH (4,434 comments) says:

    The Left’s Central Delusion
    Its devotion to central planning has endured from the French Revolution to Obamacare.

    “If the preconceptions of the Left were correct, central planning by educated elites who had vast amounts of statistical data at their fingertips and expertise readily available, and were backed by the power of government, should have been more successful than market economies where millions of individuals pursued their own individual interests willy-nilly.

    But, by the end of the 20th century, even socialist and communist governments began abandoning central planning and allowing more market competition. Yet this quiet capitulation to inescapable realities did not end the noisy claims of the Left.”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/352704/lefts-central-delusion-thomas-sowell

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  153. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    it’s getting really wobbly now. We’re headed for the you – know – what accusations!

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  154. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    Well yes. You once described the founding of Israel as a form of European colonization displacing the indigenous people.

    That’s not only biased, it has all the historical validity of Alice in Wonderland.

    Well, you would say that, on account of your bias.

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  155. ShawnLH (4,434 comments) says:

    Message From the Left: Left Is Wrong on Israel.

    “One of the left’s most significant ideological failings in recent years has been its habit of issuing shrill and hostile rhetorical assaults against the State of Israel.

    Before going any further, let me first establish my left-wing bona fides. I believe the Palestinian people have the right to an independent, viable and contiguous state of their own that includes the West Bank and Gaza and East Jerusalem as its capital. I have long been opposed to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank. I believe that Israel should have never imposed an economic blockade on the 1.5 million Palestinians who live in Gaza. And I strongly opposed the Israeli military’s inhumane targeting policies employed during its recent offensive against Hamas in Gaza.

    So why do I feel so strongly that most sectors of the left have been so inexcusably wrong when it comes to evaluating Israeli policies? Let’s begin by looking at the left’s reaction to Israel’s assault against Hamas.”

    http://www.jewishjournal.com/opinion/item/message_from_the_left_left_is_wrong_on_israel_20090225

    Why Israel? Claude S. Fischer.

    “Why Israel?—that is, why boycott Israel and not, say, China?—has become a central question in the bitter arguments over the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement. The latest brawl followed the decision of the American Studies Association to endorse a boycott of Israeli academic institutions, its first and only such endorsement. The question of why Israel has arisen over boycotting Israeli scholars, Israeli companies, Israeli hummus, American companies that sell to Israel, Israeli music venues, and so on.

    That Westerners of Arab, Muslim, or Jewish heritage get involved (on both sides) might be taken for granted; many have deep personal commitments. But why do so many leftish Americans and Europeans who have no personal stake in the Palestine-Israel conflict focus on it? To be clear, the question is not one of justification—whether Israeli policymakers or the boycotters and other critics have moral standing for the positions they hold. What concerns me here is explanation: Why has Israel come to occupy so much of the left’s attention?”

    http://www.bostonreview.net/blog/claude-fischer-israel-boycott-academic-association-america

    Apologist for Hamas: See No Evil, Hear No Evil.

    “Some people say that Mussolini’s fascist government made the trains run on time. But they cannot disguise or excuse the ugly nature of the regime and what it stood for.

    Ever since the Gaza war, biased journalists have been looking for ways to whitewash the terrorist Hamas regime in Gaza.”

    http://honestreporting.com/apologist-for-hamas-see-no-evil-hear-no-evil/

    Israel Vs. Hamas Is Civilization Vs. Savagery.

    ” Celebration within Gaza after the bombing of a bus filled with innocent Israeli civilians is an object lesson on the so-called Palestine question. Those who would celebrate such a cowardly act are savages.

    No one can imagine Washington’s troops firing shots to celebrate a supporter of American independence trying to kill a group of Royalist civilians. During the Cold War, U.S. support for Lech Walesa’s Solidarity would have dried up if he handed out candy after a Polish nationalist targeted, say, innocent Muscovites going to work.

    We may live in a complex world, but evil is identifiable even when its practitioners claim their cause is good.”

    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/112112-634360-celebrating-bus-bombing-is-reminder-of-hamas-evil.htm

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  156. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    Why Israel?—that is, why boycott Israel and not, say, China?

    Are you crazy? We should completely be boycotting China.

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  157. Colville (2,190 comments) says:

    Two grand?

    Colville (2,000 comments) says:

    Yus!

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  158. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Congratulations.

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  159. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    Colville,

    Condolences on this sad day.

    Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

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  160. wreck1080 (3,809 comments) says:

    interesting to read the malaysian news..

    “Anifah, who is scheduled to hold a press conference on the issue today, said the diplomat would be returned to Wellington only if he was assured of a fair trial and that his life was not in danger there.”

    So, the malaysians are concerned he will not get a fair trial or that his life is in danger?

    Isn’t funny how a corrupt nation can make such judgements in all seriousness about our justice system.

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  161. cha (3,856 comments) says:

    Amos Oz: Israel – Peace, War and storytelling.

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  162. Odakyu-sen (527 comments) says:

    Ryan,

    The reason you boycott Israel is because to boycott China would be waaaaaaaaacccciiiisstttttt!

    //

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  163. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    Odakyu,

    You’ve got me mixed up with someone else or misread my comment. I said we should be boycotting China.

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  164. Odakyu-sen (527 comments) says:

    Hello Ryan,

    When I said “you,” I didn’t mean you “you”; I meant protesters-in-general “you.”

    (Damn, these English singular/plural second-person personal pronouns are tricky…)

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  165. questions (186 comments) says:

    You guys seemed really excited at the prospect of the diplomatic sex offender being a muslim, but not nearly as excited at the prospect that he is a male.

    Why might this be?

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  166. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    Hello Ryan,

    When I said “you,” I didn’t mean you “you”; I meant protesters-in-general “you.”

    (Damn, these English singular/plural second-person personal pronouns are tricky…)

    Oh, sorry. I read your comment, then you edited to add my name and thought you were waiting for me to reply.

    Youse! Y’all!

    Frustrating, the English language.

    From my conversations with people who talk about BDS for Israel and not for China, their reasons tend to be that China’s too big to be affected, too uncaring to be affected (might be some racism behind that one), and that Israel claims/wants to be a democracy while China does not. I tend to land more on the “what you want to say with your own actions” side of things, which is less concerned with the chances of a boycott “succeeding”.

    I’m not sure how I feel about boycotts in general, actually. Before the Beijing Olympics I talked a lot about how NZ should boycott it, but some people had some strong arguments for cultural exchange having a good effect too.

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  167. Odakyu-sen (527 comments) says:

    I personally are all in favor of cultural exchanges.

    If you* are an ultra-nationalistic xenophobe, you owe it to yourself to go and live in a foreign country and to learn their language and culture. That way, when you return to your home, you can love it even more; this time with a point of view and perspective with which to measure it.

    *The plural second-person personal pronoun version of “you”

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  168. RF (1,345 comments) says:

    That has been Mallard is now reduced to making stupid comments about recreating Moas. I am sure Cunners will be very pleased that the duck is concentrating on important issues. I know of several hard core labour followers who have just given up trying to make excuses for their idiots in parliament.

    I see Micky Mouse over on the standard is getting a serve from his own people for sticking up for the duck.

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  169. Ryan Sproull (7,060 comments) says:

    If you* are an ultra-nationalistic xenophobe, you owe it to yourself to go and live in a foreign country and to learn their language and culture. That way, when you return to your home, you can love it even more; this time with a point of view and perspective with which to measure it.

    *The plural second-person personal pronoun version of “you”

    If one is an ultra-nationalistic xenophobe, one owes it to oneself to go and live in a foreign country and to learn their language and culture. That way, when one returns to one’s home, one can love it even more; this time with a point of view and perspective with which to measure it.

    Does that work?

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  170. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Another raghead sex offender . . . is this all these mongrels are capable of, along with failing to pay taxes and car thieving. Goes to show, no matter what walk of life they come from, they are crap. Suppose he had time to take his prayer mat.

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  171. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    it doesn’t appear to work. For the sake of everyone’s sanity, though – let’s move on to pluperfect subjunctives or something.

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  172. wreck1080 (3,809 comments) says:

    “A tow-truck driver has been found not guilty of unlawful taking of a motor vehicle after driving an impounded car at speeds of up to 113km/h.”

    “Defence lawyer Jeremy Bioletti argued, however, that Woods did not know what he was doing was wrong and that belief was important in deciding his guilt or innocence.”

    To charge this guy with stealing cars was a bit over the top. More of a joyride, sure, give him a warning but ruin his life?

    Interesting that defence lawyer is arguing that ignorance of the law is an excuse :)

    Good to see he got off. The cops should be spending their time on more important things.

    But in saying that, I do not know much about this case and maybe there are other factors in play.

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  173. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    igm rushes in from stacking shelves at pac n save to dash off a quick post about ragheads before ‘mum’ calls dinner (drum cabbage and parsnips with blade steak) and a rewarding wank on the shower mat while watching shortland street on his cellphone.

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  174. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    igm: Harsh, but with more than a kernel of truth..

    Milky Mild and the Sanctimonious Mr George…it seems that like generalisations (which are generally but not always true) “racist stereotypes” also have a way of proving embarrassingly so..

    I cant be bothered trying to find my first comment on this, but it was something like the male members of the religion of peace lose control at the sight of a woman’s hair or ankles, and that they must find themselves severely over-stimulated when downtown Courtenay Place of a Saturday night….Seems all we stereotypers were right after all…

    Wait for Mr George to remind us that Ibrahim bin Wallah Ibrahim is entitled to the presumption of innocence..(as of course he is)

    ..And talking of wankers Mr Knotts…I have no idea what igm does for a living and what his educational level is, but I don’t stack shelves for a living and I have a couple of degrees,,,I have also lived a bit in places which don’t resemble Aro Valley or Ponsonby in the slightest.. Have you decided what you will do when you graduate?

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  175. cricko (282 comments) says:

    If you have a problem with diplomatic protection conventions would it be OK for a NZ diplomat in, say,
    Saudi Arabia to be sentenced to 100 lashes if he was found to be in possession of a bible ?

    Get it ?

    This Malaysian (alleged) scumbag invoking DP is the price we have to pay.
    muslim convention would have it that he did nothing wrong, he was provoked.

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  176. stephieboy (2,539 comments) says:

    igm , less bigotry would be in order about the Malaysian diplomat and there wouldn’t be the same kind of dispersions if say an Italian one presumably.
    I’t worth noting that he faces potentially more severe punishments at home for his criminal behaviuor including the rotan whip.

    http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2013/09/28/Trio-whipped-in-open-court-Youths-get-two-strokes-of-the-rotan-each-for-armed-robbery.aspx

    Get it,?

    Or beheading .!

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  177. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    stephie: the word you are seeking is “aspersions”…As always, when one is trying to impress others with “big words” it’s most important to know just what the words used mean…

    cricko: good points…I know of a few people who narrowly escaped flogging for brewing alcohol in Muslim countries (makes them lose control even more easily…apparently)

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  178. lurcher1948 (129 comments) says:

    this is a IGM LOVING post but igm is a wanganui FUCKWIT.This post is for a RAPING RAGHEAD,but i dont give a fuck, this raghead is a diplomant.COVERED,KEYS BEST FRIEND, so who gives a fuck LEECHER HATER,DIPSHIT IGM shit from wanganui, a LEECHER,Covers it all dosnt it LEECHER IGM, sounds like a shit post from IGM or better

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  179. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    The diplomat is “Mohammed Rizalman Bin Ismail and worked at the Malaysian High Commission in Wellington.”

    From the NZ Herald

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  180. cricko (282 comments) says:

    Would stephieboy be the most unworldly, naive drong to post on this site ?

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  181. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    cricko: that may well be so, but I think “lurcher” has just demonstrated that he is the poster most in need of serious help…I hope to God the “1948″ is not his birthday…

    Well done Lucia!! Only about 2 hours behind the play… a bit like the Holy Mother Church and its response to paedophilia really,….still, 2 hours beats 20 years…

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  182. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    lurcher: You have clarified why we should introduce involuntary euthanasia, displaying insanity, and illiteracy, seen only in ardent Labour/Green supporters. Go take your pills, preferably arsenic, saving taxpayers many valuable dollars for projects more worthy than your oxygen wasting!

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  183. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    Since there has been a measles outbreak in NZ, I thought I share the following from the World Health Organisation on measles:

    The first sign of measles is usually a high fever, which begins about 10 to 12 days after exposure to the virus, and lasts four to seven days. A runny nose, a cough, red and watery eyes, and small white spots inside the cheeks can develop in the initial stage. After several days, a rash erupts, usually on the face and upper neck. Over about three days, the rash spreads, eventually reaching the hands and feet. The rash lasts for 5 to 6 days, and then fades. On average, the rash occurs 14 days after exposure to the virus (within a range of seven to 18 days).

    Severe measles is more likely among poorly nourished young children, especially those with insufficient vitamin A, or whose immune systems have been weakened by HIV/AIDS or other diseases.

    Most measles-related deaths are caused by complications associated with the disease. Complications are more common in children under the age of five, or adults over the age of 20. The most serious complications include blindness, encephalitis (an infection that causes brain swelling), severe diarrhoea and related dehydration, ear infections, or severe respiratory infections such as pneumonia. As high as 10% of measles cases result in death among populations with high levels of malnutrition and a lack of adequate health care. Women infected while pregnant are also at risk of severe complications and the pregnancy may end in miscarriage or preterm delivery. People who recover from measles are immune for the rest of their lives.

    The NZ media really ought to be telling parents about the need for Vitamin A as protection from measles, and not just pushing the vaccine angle.

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  184. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    David,

    I was busy when the announcement came over the radio, and was surprised to see the name still not mentioned here. Or have I missed it?

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  185. stephieboy (2,539 comments) says:

    cricko,he most unworldly, naive drong to post on this site ?

    Nope.

    ! A test for you.? Do you believe 9/11 was an inside job.?, The Federal Reserve is run by a cabal of nefarious Zionist/ Jews.?, are you a birther.?

    If no to to all then you are an enlightened one but otherwise the real naive drone.!

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  186. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    Nostradamus posted this on 21st June…..

    …..”You may not be aware, but “Lurcher1948″ is currently banned from Kiwiblog until 11 September 2032 (yes, you read that correctly).

    He’s previously posted under the following aliases (that I know of):

    - John
    - JSF
    - Joe Average
    - JoeAverage1948
    - Roger Rabbit
    - Jock
    - Harry Glicken
    - paws
    - Plebe

    He’s an ex-printer, from what I understand, and generally uses the CAPSLOCK key when he gets VERY UPSET.

    If you’d like to know more about Lurcher’s unique commenting style, he had a memorable meltdown on this thread. One of my favourite all-time meltdowns on Kiwiblog, in fact! “……

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  187. cha (3,856 comments) says:

    The NZ media really ought to be telling parents about the need for Vitamin A as protection from measles, and not just pushing the vaccine angle.

    The NZ media really ought to be telling parents about the need for Vitamin A as protection from measles, and not just pushing the vaccine angle to ban from all schools receiving any taxpayer funding their un-vaccinated children to send a message to the bludging arseholes who take advantage of the herd immunity benefits other peoples vaccinated children provide.

    fify

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  188. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Jeez I have just taken another look at that effort by Mr Lurcher…that is one SERIOUSLY DISTURBED puppy…and it’s several hours too early for it reasonably to be alcohol induced…

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  189. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    I looked up the decile rating of the school that has been affected by measles – it’s decile 1. That matches what the WHO website states – that poorly nourished kids are most at risk.

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  190. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    ….” that poorly nourished kids are most at risk.”…..

    That makes it easy to fix……just put grated carrot in with the KFC potato & gravy. :)

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  191. cha (3,856 comments) says:

    The big news today in the U.S is that the Supreme Court has ruled 5-4 that Hobby Lobby does not have to pay for abortion-inducing contraceptive drugs for their employees through employer health insurance.

    Yay, more abortions – larger returns.
    /

    These companies include Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, which makes Plan B and ParaGard, a copper IUD, and Actavis, which makes a generic version of Plan B and distributes Ella.

    Other stock holdings in the mutual funds selected by Hobby Lobby include Pfizer, the maker of Cytotec and Prostin E2, which are used to induce abortions; Bayer, which manufactures the hormonal IUDs Skyla and Mirena; AstraZeneca, which has an Indian subsidiary that manufactures Prostodin, Cerviprime, and Partocin, three drugs commonly used in abortions; and Forest Laboratories, which makes Cervidil, a drug used to induce abortions.

    Several funds in the Hobby Lobby retirement plan also invested in Aetna and Humana, two health insurance companies that cover surgical abortions, abortion drugs, and emergency contraception in many of the health care policies they sell.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/hobby-lobby-retirement-plan-invested-emergency-contraception-and-abortion-drug-makers

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  192. cricko (282 comments) says:

    Great comment from naaska @ 5.45
    Hope Lucia got the point.

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  193. Jack5 (4,900 comments) says:

    Cycling was once the working person’s and kids’ transport. There’s a new mob about now, on bikes that cost thousands and wearing only fashionable gear.

    Today, we have cycling snobs, says this Daily Telegraph article:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/recreational-cycling/10923019/Why-does-cycling-attract-so-many-snobs.html

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  194. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    Yes, great comment, Cricko, from Nasska.

    However, chicken liver would be much more effective – far more Vitamin A than just a bit of grated carrot.

    I remember eating chicken livers as a kid, but they seem to be gone from the chooks I buy from the supermarket. Now I have to resort to pate or vitamins.

    Why Chicken Livers are good for you

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  195. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    “and it’s several hours too early for it reasonably to be alcohol induced…..”

    Speak for yourself!

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  196. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    But seriously- That Lurcher guy is pretty out there…

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  197. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    Cha,

    I would have thought, that if you were a parent of a vaccinated child, you’d be interested in knowing more about how to protect your child from measles. Sure you can ban all un-vaccinated children from coming into contact with the vaccinated, but what about all the adults whose immunity has disappeared? Because the only way to be safe is to vaccinate every 10 years, and how many adults do that?

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  198. dad4justice (7,976 comments) says:

    Who cares what Lurcher writes, he has been here longer than most of you. His style hasn’t changed in years. No doubt all you got no life creeps will email David so he can be banned. Some of you are without much to do in life. Seriously who cares. Get a life narsekisser.

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  199. cricko (282 comments) says:

    Maybe Lucia could be bought up to speed.

    If it were true that vitamin A would prevent measles and that fact was advertised long and loud and far and wide
    for all to see, and sources of vitamin A were explained it would make no difference.
    The DPB mums and their current boyfriends wouldn’t give a shit.

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  200. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    My stalker is back.

    Hi! :)

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  201. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘Because the only way to be safe is to vaccinate every 10 years’
    Is that from the same solurce as your vitamin A advice?

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  202. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Dad…For a man whose whole life consists of fostering various real or imagined grievances with the Family court – to the point of adopting reference to it in your pseud – I think I’d hold my peace if I were you…God forbid…

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  203. Scott Chris (5,976 comments) says:

    Re Rolf Harris – I in no way condone what he is alleged to have done but I can’t help but feel he’s paying for all the sins of our ‘gropey’ uncles. The unwritten rules were different back then.

    And I suspect the Jimmy Savile case has generated public hysteria over this matter which is bound to bring all kinds of fantasists out of the woodwork.

    I prefer to remember him as a very talented entertainer:

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  204. dad4justice (7,976 comments) says:

    Mr Garrett I wouldn’t listen to any advice from you. Just look at your history and you have the audacity to tell me what to do.

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  205. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    nasska (10,343 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 6:15 pm
    My stalker is back.

    Wow, only super sexy important people have stalkers! You’ll have to add that to your CV

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  206. Griff (6,996 comments) says:

    Moonbats who will not vaccinate are the cause of epidemics.
    Naturopaths and other quacks are often the source of the alt med rubbish that makes us all more vulnerable.
    Colon Crag is a typical fucknuckle type who is sucked into the altmed wingnuttery.
    He wants to insure these ripoff nutters are not legally constrained according to his party site.

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  207. Komata (1,142 comments) says:

    Re: The Measles outbreak…

    Remember when it was oh, so fashionable amongst ‘liberated’ mothers within certain social groups NOT to immunise your children as a protest against the whole vaccine concept, and the ‘unnaturalness’ of vaccinations?

    One has to wonder where those irresponsible and reckless (feckless?) mothers are now, especially if their little un-immunised darlings are either victims or carriers of the disease.

    They will probably never accept responsibility of course, or realise that they may be actually to blame and are probably actively blaming everyone else but themselves…

    We’ll never hear, but one does wonder….

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  208. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    It’s given me a warm fuzzy feeling Judith….I never thought that a poor cocky could rise so high on the blogosphere hit list. :)

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  209. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    Mike,

    No, just something I picked up a number of years back. The Travel Doctor has a comprehensive list of how long various vaccines are supposed to last. They list measles (and mumps and rubella) as 15 years, possibly life.

    I was vaccinated against mumps as a baby, and got mumps in one gland when I was 7 and then mumps in the other gland when I was 17. I think that’s a bit of a strike against the vaccine lasting 15 years, as it barely lasted 7 for me.

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  210. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    Colon Crag is a typical fucknuckle type who is sucked into the altmed wingnuttery.

    Tee Hee… :-) Nice descriptive language Griff!

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  211. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    I’m expecting 25kg legs of lamb when the Moa’s breakthrough my back fence! :)

    Thank you Penny for never getting around to knitting my barbed wire! :)

    I love you darling…. and if you forward me the accounts I may consider paying (a) your water rates and (b) any unpaid welding gas accounts! :)

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  212. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    @ nasska (10,344 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 6:37 pm

    Wow Nasska, I don’t think I’ve ever met a stalkee before. You’ll be able to tell your story to one of the women’s mags, or maybe they’ll air it on Country Calendar?

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  213. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    If you pop round to Waiui in your fuckme boots Lucia I’m happy to palpitate your glands! :)

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  214. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    Bugger me. Minus has split into two bloody Amoebas! :)

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  215. Griff (6,996 comments) says:

    The guideline for the ministry of health is born since 1969 and had the two course mmr vaccine or born prior to 1969 and have had measles you should be immune.
    http://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/conditions-and-treatments/diseases-and-illnesses/measles
    http://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/preventative-health-wellness/immunisation/new-zealand-immunisation-schedule/adult-immunisation
    Td vaccine (tetanus and diphtheria) is the only scheduled vaccine for adults @ 45 and 65

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  216. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    @ Komata (1,076 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 6:36 pm

    I’ve never quite worked this one out. What do the immunised have to fear from the unimmunised?

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  217. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    Johnboy (14,561 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 6:46 pm
    Bugger me. Minus has split into two bloody Amoebas! :)

    That’ll be Trevor mucking around with the DNA. You nats need to be afraid – very afraid! :-)

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  218. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosie_the_Riveter

    That Howard Miller cartoon somehow reminds me of someone! :)

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  219. Griff (6,996 comments) says:

    Herd immunity Judith
    over 95 % immunized and the chance of epidemics taking hold is greatly reduced
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

    Herd immunity or herd effect, also called community immunity, describes a form of immunity[1] that occurs when the vaccination of a significant portion of a population (or herd) provides a measure of protection for individuals who have not developed immunity.[2] Herd immunity theory proposes that, in contagious diseases that are transmitted from individual to individual, chains of infection are likely to be disrupted when large numbers of a population are immune or less susceptible to the disease. The greater the proportion of individuals who are resistant, the smaller the probability that a susceptible individual will come into contact with an infectious individual.

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  220. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Dad: Please do feel free to call me Sir…How many orders against you are currently valid? do they relate to more than one woman?

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  221. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The Malaysian Government asked New Zealand to drop all charges against a diplomat accused of sexual assault, newly released documents show.

    Government released correspondence this evening confirmed that New Zealand asked Malaysia to waive diplomatic immunity for Muhammed Rizalman Bin Ismail, a junior military official at the Malaysian High Commission in Wellington.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11285543

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  222. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    Think of it though Judith. Jurassic park not 5k from Faulke Avenue!

    If the duck can find a mad enough scientist to inject his DNA into a future Moa it would be like a midgit/giant angry Jeff Goldblum! :)

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  223. ShawnLH (4,434 comments) says:

    The Socialist Roots of Modern Anti-Semitism: Socialist Economies Breed Intolerance and Persecution.

    “Auschwitz meant that six million Jews were killed, and thrown on the waste-heap of Europe, for what they were considered: money-Jews. Finance capital and the banks, the hard core of the system of imperialism and capitalism, had turned the hatred of men against money and exploitation, and against the Jews. . . . Antisemitism is really a hatred of capitalism.
    —Ulrike Meinhof, left-wing German terrorist of the 1970s”

    http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/the-socialist-roots-of-modern-anti-semitism

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  224. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    Jeeze….multiple downers. If you bastards aren’t going to be nice to me I’ll take my bat and wickets home and never play with you again! :)

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  225. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    @ Griff (6,493 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 6:53 pm

    Yeah, but if you’ve had the jab, even if there is an epidemic, only those that have chosen not to have it, will contract it.

    I’ve heard some kindergarten mum’s get pretty vicious over having non-immunised children in the same class – what’s their worry if their child has been immunised it can’t catch it.

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  226. Griff (6,996 comments) says:

    Anti jew hysteria has its roots in the christian church spawn .
    funny because Jesus was a Jew

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  227. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (14,564 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 6:54 pm

    Well I think its a great idea, and the best offer I’ve seen this election year. Imagine the omelettes! I’d only need one egg for a pavlova! This is BIG – it’s the most excited I’ve been since Donny Osmond announced his New Zealand tour!

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  228. cricko (282 comments) says:

    It had to happen.

    And sure enough, Scott Chris @ 6.33 rose to the occaison and in the true tradition of a
    lefty hand ringing guilty apologist for everyfricken thing comments on the Rolf Harris verdict
    and declares, “We are all guilty.”

    Truly the most pathetic post of the day Scott.

    Now that you admit to having had a ‘gropey’ uncle we can get a better handle on where you come from
    you poor sad sack.

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  229. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    funny because Jesus was a Jew

    Shawn’s happy to scream “anti-semite” every time I criticize the Zionists, but I bet he won’t say a word against this description of some Jews:

    “for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness”

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  230. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    Judith

    I think the Mum vs Mum hostilities over immunisation come down to the fact that they are unpleasant experiences for the kids & not totally without risk of reactions.

    The immunised side see the non-immunised as getting a free ride as with a high inoculation rate the risk of any sort of epidemic is greatly reduced.

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  231. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Auschwitz meant that six million Jews were killed

    The obsessive invocation of the cabalistic fable of “6,000,000 dead or dying Jews” dating back at least four decades prior to the events of WWII directly undermines and betrays the notion that 6,000,000 Jews perished in Europe between 1939-1945, as Jews have claimed.

    http://zioncrimefactory.com/the-six-million-myth/

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  232. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    cricko: yes, my thoughts exactly…And at the risk of being the law pedant…if one believes in the jury system ( and it took them long enough) and British justice, it is no longer what “rolfie” is alleged to have done…he has moved from being “the accused” to, at his sentencing, “the prisoner”…

    Side note: Damn short period between conviction and sentence…god knows why our Crown Prosecutors seem to need three months to get the required reports done…If he goes to jail he will probably die there…one helluva comedown…

    UT: do tell us..how many do YOU think perished at the hands of the You-Know-whose between 1933 and 45? (Yes, I have seen those interesting historical articles which all refer to 6 million) but that doesn’t stop you answering my question…

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  233. chiz (1,131 comments) says:

    Personally, I’m waiting for the Kentucky Fried Moa!

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  234. Judith (8,455 comments) says:

    @nasska (10,345 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 7:10 pm

    Yeah, that’s probably it. I remember the ‘school mum’ days – shudder!!

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  235. lurcher1948 (129 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,773 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 7:06 pm
    funny because Jesus was a Jew

    Shawn’s happy to scream “anti-semite” every time I criticize the Zionists, but I bet he won’t say a word against this description of some Jews:

    “for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness”

    Really Ugly in loud words WHO GIVES A FUCK

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  236. stephieboy (2,539 comments) says:

    UT, was Jesus’s admonition from Matthew’s gospel directed at the Pharisees or the Jews as a nation race.?

    Zionist crime factory like Voltaire net .? Another of your impeccable and reputable sources like your paranoid kingpin Ted Gunderson.??

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  237. SPC (5,473 comments) says:

    Shawn, modern anti-Semitism occurred as a consequence of nationalism in Europe. With the move from Christian throne regime to secular polity of nation state republics came a focus on what the nation had in common – and this was “ethnic” community.

    Thus the pre-cursor of anti-immigration sentiment was with the persecution of existing minorities such as Jews and Gypsies.

    The attempt to identify this as left or right wing nationalism (for some political purpose – as to left or right wing posturing) is specious.

    It’s as silly as others saying that immigration is some liberal multi-cultural thing – when it is simply of the global market. Capitalism desires both the availability of migrant workers and access to foreign markets – thus the reluctance to discriminate as to the origin of workers. This results in the need for an apologetic for multi-cultural diversity within nations built on not discriminating as to the source of migrant workers. Both the left and the right are equally involved in this – based on belief that population growth related to globalisation is good for the economy – profit making and taking by business and more revenue for government spending.

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  238. Griff (6,996 comments) says:

    A RECENT PHOTO OF LURCHER 1948

    http://www.nicedoggie.net/2007/wp-content/images/76-head_up_ass.jpg

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  239. chiz (1,131 comments) says:

    Sure that isn’t reddy?

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  240. Steve (North Shore) (4,522 comments) says:

    The birth of Venus
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/b2s5sgc13pl5q8p/ManaInternet.jpg

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  241. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    UT: do tell us..how many do YOU think perished at the hands of the You-Know-whose between 1933 and 45? (Yes, I have seen those interesting historical
    articles which all refer to 6 million) but that doesn’t stop you answering my question…

    Do you really believe the the difference between the actual number of dead and the reported 6 million is more important than the fact that the reported number was chosen on the basis of an interpretation of the Tanak?

    Zionist apologists are fairly common on this board, are you one as well, David?

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  242. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    That’s very tasteful Steve(NS)……. The fatarse kraut wasn’t disrobed! :)

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  243. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    UT: No, I am not a “Zionist apologist”…In fact I have offended more than a few by saying – as I genuinely believe – that Israelis have traded on the horrors of the holocaust for rather too long, and have used it to claim carte blanche for whatever they do, 70 years later..

    However…in the absence of photoshop or 21st century special effex, I have no doubt that millions perished in the gas chambers between 1933 and 1945…I am just asking what your view of that period is… While it won’t matter one iota to you, your answers will determine how seriously I take you on here…

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  244. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    OK, David, my answer is that I would be guessing. I’m far more interested in the reasons for the conflict in the context of the Jewish religious paradigm than in the body count.

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  245. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    You are dodging the question…well, perhaps not…Do you accept that the You know Whose killed and cremated millions of people between 1933 and 45?

    Follow up question, Have you been to any of the camp sites…I have…

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  246. big bruv (13,559 comments) says:

    DG

    I know the number used to be six.

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  247. SPC (5,473 comments) says:

    As for the matter of Gaza and the West Bank.

    Once was occupied by the Ottoman empire and when it came to an end and was reduced to nation state parts such as Turkey Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Jordan it was part of the Palestine mandate awarded to the British empire by the League of Nations.

    The UN allocated part of it (where there was a Jewish majority) for the Jewish state of Israel and the rest (where there was an Arab majority) for another state. The state of Israel expanded its territory after a war with Arab states – by the end of which Egypt occupied Gaza and Jordan occupied the West Bank. No Jewish settlements in Gaza or the West Bank remained.

    Given that Arabs states did not recognise the creation of Israel they did not seek to establish a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank in the 1949-1967 period. Palestinians who wanted self government were supposed to serve the greater Arab cause instead.

    In 1967 Israel occupied Gaza and the West Bank. The only part they annexed was East Jerusalem (not recognised by anyone), no Jewish settlements were built until this policy came in with the Likud governments first term in office in 1977.

    Formal annexation of the land would require granting citizenship to Palestinian Arabs.

    Thus building illegal settlements is a way to exploit the territory as a resource without enfranchising the local Arabs.

    Using any reaction against the taking of land for settlement to justify taking more land for security fencing around these settlements (it is not a 67 border fence) is to de facto annex the areas of the West Bank. Thus the status quo of peace talks – where Israel offers unoccupied land in the Negev or Arab village land in Galilee to a Palestine state as compensation for acquiring Jewish settlement territory into Israel.

    As for the exercise of collective punishment of Palestinians for crimes against Jews by some Arabs, this just goes to show that any group with power is capable of becoming corrupt (anti-Semitism was justified on the same specious grounds).

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  248. MH (690 comments) says:

    Until Lou Vincent gets a hair cut,I’m not prepared to forgive him.
    Ok,if he bundles it up behind him then and only then…where’s my lawyer.

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  249. stephieboy (2,539 comments) says:

    UT,

    “Do you really believe the the difference between the actual number of dead and the reported 6 million is more important than the fact that the reported number was chosen on the basis of an interpretation of the Tanak?”

    Tanak.? Expand on that if you could.? A canon of the Hebrew Bible but the particular text you select will be interesting.

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  250. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    BB: the moron down tickers are out tonight…

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  251. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    Mallard has started his unnatural experiments by cloning the Minus Monster with a Squid and giving the resultant beast a box of red markers! :)

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  252. SPC (5,473 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, there were 6M Jews in Europe. The figure was being cited because the emergence of European nationalism raised the issue of this people as a minority across Europe – a people at risk of persecution. The idea of this people being a people or nation in their own right to be counted as such (rather than a collective only at the synagogue as a religious group) was becoming fashionable. Thus emergent Zionism.

    That when persecution came there were more than 6M Jews in Europe (population growth) and most died c 6M, is no statistical oddity.

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  253. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Do you accept that the You know Whose killed and cremated millions of people between 1933 and 45?

    You mean they power play that saw the extermination run unimpeded by the “allies”? I don’t know how many died and I’m not going to risk trivializing it or promoting the Zionist agenda by picking a number.

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  254. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    O…… That feels better! :)

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  255. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Righto…and the Twin Towers came down by controlled internal demolition…Yaaawn…

    (and I don’t know what the “Tanak” is either, and I cant be bothered Googling it…)

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  256. big bruv (13,559 comments) says:

    DG

    I blame Johnboy.

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  257. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    Normally you can’t be bothered cause it’s childish but I must admit I enjoyed that! :)

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  258. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    Who are Mighty Ories playing next week bb?

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  259. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    yeah. so nice to see ‘the only democracy in the middle east’ start bombing innocent men, women and children in retaliation for the crimes committed by who even knows, yet. Sure a bunch of people have been arrested but shouldnt there be a court process or something to ascertain absolute guilt.

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  260. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    A dedicated shop steward was at a convention in Las Vegas
    and decided to check out the local brothels. When he got to
    the first one, he asked the Madame, “Is this a union house?”

    “No, I’m sorry it isn’t,” she said.

    “Well, if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?” he
    inquired.

    “The house gets $80 and the girls get $20,” the Madame
    replied.

    Mightily offended at such unfair dealings, the man stomped
    off down the street in search of a more equitable shop.

    His search continued throughout the night until finally he
    reached a brothel where the Madame said, “Why yes, this is
    a union house.”

    “And if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?” he
    asked.

    “The girls get $80 and the house gets $20,” said the Madame.

    “That’s more like it!” the man said. He looked around the
    room and pointed to a stunningly attractive redhead. “I’d
    like her for the night,” he said.

    “I’m sure you would, sir,” said the Madame, …gesturing to
    an older and much heavier woman in the corner,
    ” …but Two-Ton Bertha here has seniority!”

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  261. Viking2 (11,280 comments) says:

    A blonde chick gets a job as a physical education teacher of 16 year olds.
    She notices a boy at the end of the field standing alone, while all the other kids are running
    around having fun, kicking a football..

    She takes pity on him and decides to speak to him.
    ‘You ok?’ she asks.
    ‘Yes,’ he replies.
    ‘You can go and play with the other kids, you know,’ she says.
    ‘It’s best I stay here,’ he says.

    ‘Why’s that, sweetie?’ asks the blonde..
    The boy looks at her incredulously and says: “Because I’m the f##king goal keeper !!!”

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  262. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    Oh god…there is nothing else on, so I’ll play..

    When you say the Nazi extermination machine was “unimpeded by the allies” how would you describe the round the clock bombing of Germany from the time the American 8th Air Force arrived in England?

    How much sooner than June 1944 do you think the invasion of Europe – the largest amphibious landing in history – could have been undertaken?

    (Now it get’s whacky)

    Why didn’t Operation Overlord happened sooner than 6 June ’44?

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  263. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    That when persecution came there were more than 6M Jews in Europe (population growth) and most died c 6M, is no statistical oddity.

    That’s the point, just like 6M was the number of choice decades before the rise of the Nazis.

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  264. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    You’re starting to recycle them nasska! :)

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  265. Viking2 (11,280 comments) says:

    The Archbishop of Canterbury and

    The Royal Commission for Political Correctness announced today that the climate in the UK should no longer be referred to as

    English Weather.

    Rather than offend a sizeable portion of the

    UK population, it will now be referred to as:

    ‘Muslim Weather’

    (Partly Sunni, but mostly Shi’ite)

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  266. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    Election year JB. :)

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  267. SPC (5,473 comments) says:

    DG, the Tanakh is the OT. The first T is for Torah, the other letters to the other parts of the OT.

    The figure of 6M is not in the Torah. Ugly confuses the Tanakh, Talmud and Kabbalah.

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  268. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    V2!!!!! :)

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  269. Viking2 (11,280 comments) says:

    There was a knock on the door this morning.

    I opened it to find a young man standing there who said: “Hello sir, I’m a Jehovah’s Witness …”

    I said “Come in and sit down.”

    I offered him coffee and asked, “What do you want to talk about?”

    He said, “Buggered if I know, I’ve never got this far before.”

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  270. Jacob Cohen (44 comments) says:

    Wiesenthal Centre 5,860,000
    http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=gvKVLcMVIuG&b=394663#2

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  271. SPC (5,473 comments) says:

    Ugly, it was not a number of choice it was a guestimate of the Jewish population in Europe.

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  272. Sofia (830 comments) says:

    Waitangi Tribunal soon runs out of land disputes.
    Oh, so that is the big deal at the moment then with the Rena.
    Did wonder why …

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  273. stephieboy (2,539 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth,

    not this you are alluding to.?

    “A claimed agenda

    Holocaust deniers might claim that the Holocaust was set up as a global Jewish plan to gain money, land and financial and political support from the Western nations.
    [edit]Martin Glynn’s “Holocaust” article from 1919
    Martin H. Glynn, former Governor of New York State, wrote an article in October 1919, to encourage American Jews to send humanitarian aid to starving European Jews[1] in the wake of World War I and the Spanish flu.
    By coincidence, Mr. Glynn counted six million European Jews, and used the word holocaust to describe the threatening famine.
    Holocaust deniers might use this single article to prove that the idea of staging the murder of six million Jews, calling it the Holocaust originates from at least 1919. However:
    Besides the phrases six million and holocaust, the article has nothing in common with the Holocaust which we know from World War II – although deniers might falsely claim it to mention murder, Germany or the war.
    Deniers claim that the article originated as a speech. This statement is not backed by evidence.
    Deniers still have to explain exactly what this article proves. Was the claimed plan to stage a genocide already worked out in 1919? Was the “staged” holocaust just an a posteriori carbon copy of Mr. Glynn’s article?”

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Red_herrings_in_Holocaust_denial

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  274. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

    Ugly may suspect you have a biased view Jake! :)

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  275. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    I’m still waiting for him to tell me how he would describe round the clock bombing of Germany from 1942..including some pinpoint bomber attacks on prisons and camps…Perhaps he is checking sources…

    I am sure the millions of German citizens forced to take cover every night thought they were being “impeded” more than somewhat…

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  276. big bruv (13,559 comments) says:

    Johnyboy

    I dunno who they are playing, I was hoping you might tell me.

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  277. Viking2 (11,280 comments) says:

    Quote du Jour: “The only thing that scares me more
    than aliens is the idea that there aren’t any aliens. We can’t be the
    best that creation has to offer. I pray we’re not all there is. If so,
    we’re in big trouble. Ellen DeGeneres.”

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  278. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The figure of 6M is not in the Torah.

    I didn’t say that it was. The interpretation is of Leviticus 25:10 “ye shall return”.

    “The Hebrew word for ‘ye shall return’(TaShuVU), seems to have been spelled incorrectly. Grammatically it requires another (vav). It ought to read (TaShUVU). Why is it lacking the letter (vav) which stands for six?. [TaShuVU] without the vav is a prediction to the Jewish people of ultimate return to their national homeland. TaShuVU in numbers adds up to 708: tav=400, shin=300, vei=2, vey=6. When we write the year, we ignore the millennia. In 1948 on the secular calendar, we witnessed the miracle of Jewish return to Israel. On the Hebrew calendar it was the year 5708. That was the year predicted by the incomplete word (TaShuVu), you shall return. We did return, lacking 6 – an all important 6 million of our people who perished in the holocaust. Yet the fulfillment of the prediction of return in precisely that year implied by the gematria of TaShuVU gives us firm hope that the words of the prophets for Final Redemption will come true as well.” ~ Benjamen Blech

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  279. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    stephie: I’ll tell you one thing…when you do a tour of Dachau and notice the lovely verdant field with wild flowers growing which is on two sides of it, you don’t quite get it when the guide asks with a smile “what do you notice about that field?” Everyone says “the lovely flowers” “the nice green grass”…the correct answer is it is about a metre higher than land on the other sides, because it was where they dumped the ashes…and Dachau wasn’t even an extermination camp like Maidenek and Birkenau…

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  280. Viking2 (11,280 comments) says:

    FLU SEASON

    To avoid it…
    Eat right!
    Make sure you get your daily dose of fruit and veggies.

    Take your vitamins and bump up your vitamin C.

    Get plenty of exercise because it builds your immune system.

    Walk for at least an hour a day,
    Go for a swim,

    Take the stairs instead of the lift, etc.

    Wash your hands often.
    If you can’t, keep a bottle of antibacterial stuff around.

    Get lots of fresh air.
    Open doors & windows whenever possible.

    Try to eliminate as much stress from your life as you can.

    Get plenty of rest.

    OR
    Take the doctor’s approach.
    Think about it….
    When you go for a flu jab, what do they do first?

    They clean your arm with alcohol…

    Why?

    Because Alcohol KILLS GERMS.
    So….

    I walk to the pub. (exercise)

    I put lime in my vodka… (fruit)

    Celery in my Bloody Mary (veggies)

    Drink outdoors on the patio… (fresh air)

    Tell jokes and laugh… (eliminate stress)

    Then I pass out. (rest)

    The way I see it…

    If you keep your alcohol levels up,
    Flu germs Can’t get you!
    REMEMBER:
    ‘A shot in the glass
    Is better than one in the arse!’

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  281. David Garrett (6,774 comments) says:

    UT: forget all the clever stuff with numbers from the Torah and the Old T..

    Tell me what the allies were doing with 24 hour bombing from 1942 if it wasn’t trying to “impede” what Adolf and his mates were doing?

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  282. cha (3,856 comments) says:

    Muhammad Rizalman bin Ismail on facebook.

    https://www.facebook.com/rizal.rizalman.1

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  283. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I’m still waiting for him to tell me how he would describe round the clock bombing of Germany from 1942

    Better not hold your breath. The point is that the “allies” were indirectly supporting the Zionist agenda by not bombing Auschwitz or the railway lines to the death camps.

    http://www.shafr.org/passport/2003/aug/bomb.htm

    In the March 2003 SHAFR newsletter, William J. vanden Heuvel of the Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt Institute defends the refusal of the Roosevelt administration to bomb Auschwitz. He argues that the Allies had no choice but to “totally direct [their] bombing strategy toward destroying Nazi fuel supplies, their synthetic oil industries.”1 What vanden Heuvel neglects to mention, however, is that some of the oil facilities that the Allies struck were situated within a few miles of the Auschwitz gas chambers–meaning that the Allies could have easily bombed the gas chambers and crematoria used for the mass murder of Jews.

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  284. Jacob Cohen (44 comments) says:

    And, Johnboy, Ugly’s view isn’t?
    Bugger that 5,860,000 doesn’t fit his theory so easily …
    At least Penny is is usually gone again as soon as she appears

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  285. Steve (North Shore) (4,522 comments) says:

    Sofia,

    Waitangi Tribunal soon runs out of land disputes.
    Oh, so that is the big deal at the moment then with the Rena.
    Did wonder why …

    My Grandchildren will still be paying for this shit when they have their own Grandchildren

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  286. SPC (5,473 comments) says:

    Ugly, the number in ye shall return without a missing letter – 6 (the 6th commandment thou shalt not murder). The hidden meaning if any is that only the living will return – they will have the dead to remember.

    It does not forecast any year – why 5708/1948, rather than 4708/948?

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  287. Odakyu-sen (527 comments) says:

    Viking2,

    There must be intelligent life out there because it hasn’t contacted us.

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  288. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    David
    I happen to have a book to hand: ‘The Myth of Rescue: Why the Allies could not have saved more Jews from the Nazis’. It has an entire chapter, ‘The Myth of Bombing Auschwitz’, pointing out the reasons why this was not done.

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  289. nasska (10,910 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/d46azwip3c9rso8/Aussie%20hygienne.png

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  290. Johnboy (15,586 comments) says:

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  291. Grant (428 comments) says:

    Ugly, that is indeed what you are . An ugly minded individual in need of some serious psychiatric help. At least, that’s what I used to think.
    But now I read your posts on this site and I realise that you are just spouting all your rubbish about jews and muslims, and the queen being a murderer, and the whole 9/11 gig, just to wind people up. It’s all about getting a response isn’t it?
    After all, if it wasnt for the interweb, there’s no way that you’d be conversing with former members of parliament et al. You’d probably be sitting in front of your black and white TV, clutching a mug of lukewarm Horlicks, and wondering which sticky faded old porn mag you’d be running your eye over at bedtime.
    G

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  292. Southern Raider (1,748 comments) says:

    True colours.

    Arabs attacked the ambulance carrying the teenagers bodies back home and have also been dancing in the street like they did on 9/11.

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  293. stephieboy (2,539 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,779 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 8:

    More fatuity and nonsense from our Conspiracy Theory supremo especially when it comes to the “nefarious ” Jews / Zionists.There is no evidence that the decision” not to bomb “Auschwitz was part of the Zionist agenda and plot.A typical weak and cowardly way you argue as always pinning it all back on the Jews .
    Amongst the various reasons was allied strategic priorities and an extermination facility was not tragically one of them. yet an attempt was made to bomb Monowitz the synthetic fuel and rubber plant a few ks from the Birkenau complex. This was not an oil refinery as you attempt to suggest In any even the ambitious plant was never able to achieve full productive capacity to meaningfully assist the Nazi war effort There were also complications with the Soviet Union who mistrusted the plan and refused allied bombers landing facilities to refuel and rearm .
    But the key reason was simply the fact that the Jews in the US and Britain lacked the political clout to bring pressure to bear on the Allies .Defeating the Nazis militarily was considered on balance the best way to assist the beleaguered Jewish communities especially in the East. Oxford Historian Sir Martin Gilbert below provides a balanced and thorough analysis of the issues surrounding the tragic events,

    http://www.amazon.com/Auschwitz-Allies-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0712668063

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  294. thedavincimode (6,590 comments) says:

    Arabs attacked the ambulance carrying the teenagers bodies back home and have also been dancing in the street like they did on 9/11.

    Was that the global Arab population or just some local ratbags?

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  295. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    a small detail. lets just say it was all arabs and everyone can sleep well.

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  296. Jack5 (4,900 comments) says:

    Singapore is far from perfect, but it is being held up by the Washington Post as being exemplary in a number of respects.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/what-singapore-can-teach-us/2012/05/02/gIQAlQEGwT_story.html?tid=trending_strip_3

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  297. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    lol @ referencing martin gilbert. He was partly funded by the Churchill foundation. oh boy.

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  298. cha (3,856 comments) says:

    But don’t even think about buying a car.

    Custom Duty – 20% of OMV*

    Good and Services Tax – 7% of (OMV+Custom Duty)

    Registration Fee (RF) – S$140

    Additional Registration Fee – 100% of OMV

    (OMV)* Open Market Value

    http://www.motorcar.com.sg/Information/Facts/car_cost.htm

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  299. stephieboy (2,539 comments) says:

    Dom knots, Sir Martin Gilbert as well as a Fellow of Merton College Oxford assisted Randolph Churchill write a biography of his father .He eventually wrote one himself becoming Sir Winston Churchill’s official biographer.Yes and he is a Jew too.
    Something underhand and sly about all this.??

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Gilbert

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  300. Southern Raider (1,748 comments) says:

    Cha
    You ever been to Singapore? Would be the best example in the world of where you can live and don’t need one.

    You have no where to actually drive anyway and a subway station every second corner

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  301. cha (3,856 comments) says:

    Not since the Bugis Street redevelopment.

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  302. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    stephie, any idea why gilbert omited from the biography the letters between churchill himself and you – know – who?. lol. goodnight.

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  303. UrbanNeocolonialist (233 comments) says:

    Dom Knots (125 comments) says:
    July 1st, 2014 at 8:05 pm
    “yeah. so nice to see ‘the only democracy in the middle east’ start bombing innocent men, women and children in retaliation for the crimes committed by who even knows, yet. Sure a bunch of people have been arrested but shouldnt there be a court process or something to ascertain absolute guilt.”

    In an ideal world yes. But if the 20th century has taught us anything it is that you can only win against insurgency/guerilla war by making the populace police themselves, and by at minimum matching the nastiness of the insurgents. When they are (quite sensibly) against you the only way to achieve that is to (unfairly) punish the population for the infractions of individuals. That is how every empire in history managed to install and maintain law and order on their terms with tiny numbers of troops up until WWII, but since then the west has tried to take a more moral approach – mostly unsuccessfully as we see in Malayan Emergency, India, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan et al.

    I have seen it argued that the Brits were losing in Northern Ireland until the IRA started being opposed extra-legally with similar barbarism. And if you read Lee Kwan Yew’s experiences of the brutal Japanese occupation of Singapore – he was extremely impressed that within a very short time it went from a den of vice and thievery to the point where you could leave your wallet in the middle of the road in the morning and come back and pick it up that evening. The oppressive communist govts of China, Eastern Bloc, Vietnam, Korea achieved similar ‘peace’ through brutal and violent repression of all who opposed.

    The Israelis are very pragmatic and have experimented with all sorts of approaches to keeping a lid on things. They largely ended suicide bombings by going after the family and friends of the bombers – bulldozing their houses. As brutal and unfair as reprisals are, they may ultimately save lives on both sides by instilling fear that reduces further incidents. Which is why they have adopted a policy of massively unbalanced reprisal, and that is also how modern dictators like Saddam, Gaddafi managed to control their countries for so long. It’s ugly but it works (unlike recent western approaches).

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  304. Scott Chris (5,976 comments) says:

    the true tradition of a lefty hand ringing

    Nothing to do with it pinhead. The lefty hand-wringers as well as the brain-dead vigilantes like you are all out to hang Harris.

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  305. Left Right and Centre (2,883 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business – those Stuff Nation articles are usually bullshit. Missing info.

    Before they had ‘a little room to breathe’. Read: annual trip to Fiji / Bali type holiday destination.

    ‘Cost of living’. Read: filling the trolley right up with posh shit at NW. $15 bottle of conditioner ‘an essential’.

    ‘We don’t buy many extras’. Read: compared to the lotto lifestyle we actually deserve.

    ‘I was rejigging budgets and making cuts to spending’. Read: I only spend $150 every three weeks at the salon now instead of $225 every two before.

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  306. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    Most people in Gaza don’t have wallets, Neo. There’s fuck all to spend money on. But very sweetly typed of you. I’m sure what you left there will be justification enough for many in this teletyping facility to sit back and watch ‘the only democracy in the middle east’ bomb and kill the living shit out of people without trial. The best lid israel could keep ‘on things’ would be the one where they remove their ass from the occupied territories. Save all your fat talk for your friends and family – I’m way to long in the tooth to buy the horseshit you’re selling. As i have stated many times here i just hope it isnt too late for the good people of israel. See you in the international court of law because once america is forced through public opinion and other means to cut the puppet strings from the dancing fool israel that is where they will be to pay for their war crimes. P.s – love the way you coupled insurgency/guerrilla.

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  307. OneTrack (2,818 comments) says:

    judith – “But being indoctrinated by the ‘blatant political electioneering’ of the Muppet party day in and day out is okay?”

    I see the mask of an independent voter has been dropped, and someone is now in full campaign mode.

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  308. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Savage Hamas will be punished: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-missing-teenagers-hamas-warns-gates-of-hell-will-open-as-israel-bombs-gaza-strip-9574940.html

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  309. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    There is no evidence that the decision” not to bomb “Auschwitz was part of the Zionist agenda

    Just like there was no evidence of molten steel at 9/11, stevie boy?
    Lying apologist for Zionism.

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  310. Dom Knots (155 comments) says:

    go ahead and get yer porn sites back up guys. NZ is one of 4 nations not targeted by the NSA.

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