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Yesterday Metiria Turei launched a new Green policy. In the media release she promoted poverty eight times.
But the policy itself barely addresses poverty and seems to be clearly targeting middle New Zealand. Giving two year olds twenty hours of government (taxpayer) funded Early Childhood Education ($300-400 million per year) is not going to feed many starving kids.
@ Pete George (22,695 comments) says:
July 22nd, 2014 at 8:10 am
Actually that is part of what poverty means Pete. When the family has to spend everything they have to feed their children, and are unable to pay for extras like Early Childhood Education, that is deemed a minimum standard in this country, then poverty is an acceptable reason.
Poverty is relative – it is about all children having what we deem as minimum standards. Personally, I do not believe that children need early childhood education. My children never had it and all could read basic words and count before they went to school. But our powers that be have deemed it is necessary and therefore those that are not getting it due to the inability to meet the cost, need to be provided with it – well according to them, anyway.
I saw Nigel Latta trying to tell everyone 270,000 children live in poverty while trying to promote his new tv program on Seven Sharp last night. All this while he masquerades as an independant commentator. I’ll give him one thing, he’s good at multi tasking. I never realised he was such a poster boy for the left, I just thought he liked the sound of his own voice and how he looked in the mirror. Message to Nigel, if children in this country are living in poverty it is because of their parents choices not the government.
@ Tarquin North (105 comments) says:
July 22nd, 2014 at 8:31 am
So children should have to go without what is deemed as basic necessities in NZ, because their parents have made poor choices?
If their parents only make poor choices, how will we teach the children to make good choices, unless we step in and break the cycle, or do we just allow the cycle to continue, and get worse?
The safest place in the entire middle ease for Arab Christians is Israel.
The only place in the middle east that has a functioning Democracy is Israel
The only place in the middle east where Women are treated as equals is Israel
The only place in the middle east Homosexuals aren’t murdered once outed is Israel
That’s why the liberals hate Israel so much, it’s so opposed to everything they stand for… no … wait.
Judith (7,422 comments) says:
July 22nd, 2014 at 8:18 am
Actually that is part of what poverty means Pete. When the family has to spend everything they have to feed their children, and are unable to pay for extras like Early Childhood Education, that is deemed a minimum standard in this country, then poverty is an acceptable reason.
A fairy tale portrayal by the privileged. My mother’s a teacher in a poor area, and what it really means is that the poor kids get sent to school hungry while the parents have a flash car they can’t afford, smoke and so forth. The expectation is that the school will feed them. They don’t get spent time with, certainly not to practice their alphabet, writing, reading and so forth.
There are no real poor in this country, just people who squander and neglect.
Despite all of the Western MSM telling us almost from the moment the plane went down that Putin is guilty despite no evidence as yet, there are a few things they will not report:
They will not report that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU and US-supported protesters plotted the overthrow of the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych.
They are not reporting that the Ukrainian government also uses the exact same Russian-made weapons as the Rebels.
They will not report that the post-coup government in Kiev has, according to OSCE monitors, killed 250 people in the breakaway Lugansk region since June, including 20 killed as government forces bombed the city center the day after the plane crash! Most of these are civilians and together they roughly equal the number killed in the plane crash. By contrast, Russia has killed no one in Ukraine, and the separatists have struck largely military, not civilian, targets.
They will not report that neither Russia nor the separatists in eastern Ukraine have anything to gain but everything to lose by shooting down a passenger liner full of civilians.
They will not report that the Ukrainian government has much to gain by pinning the attack on Russia, and that the Ukrainian prime minister has already expressed his pleasure that Russia is being blamed for the attack.
They will not report that the missile that apparently shot down the plane was from a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system that requires a good deal of training that the separatists do not have.
They are not reporting that the separatists in eastern Ukraine have inflicted considerable losses on the Ukrainian government in the week before the plane was downed.
They will not report how similar this is to last summer’s US claim that the Assad government in Syria had used poison gas against civilians in Ghouta. Assad was also gaining the upper hand in his struggle with US-backed rebels and the US claimed that the attack came from Syrian government positions. Then, US claims led us to the brink of another war in the Middle East. At the last minute public opposition forced Obama to back down – and we have learned since then that US claims about the gas attack were false.
Like George Orwell once said in 1984 “In a time of universal deceit – telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
@ Bovver (142 comments) says:
July 22nd, 2014 at 8:50 am
Clearly we are not targeting any assistance offered in the right direction, because the situation does not seem to be improving.
We need to return to the old adage of providing the fishing line and hook, rather than the meal. I accept the parents generation is past teaching, but the children are not. If we want any sort of productive community in the future, we have to stop the cycle of uselessness, and start making an effort to teach all in society to reach their full potential (regardless of who or what their parents are).
Whilst it irks me that I have done this for my children, and why should I have to do it for others, I realise that my children will continue to pay for those that don’t, well into their adult years, and so it should concern me for what it is going to cost them, if something is not done to break that cycle now.
Guyon Espiner this morning in his whispery voice let Jan Logie completely off the hook as she wittered away about the PM flying off on holiday when he should have been here apologising to their poster girl.
This whole thing reeks of a political beat up.
And although they keep saying the PM should apologise, they never say what for.
Re: Early Childhood Eduction and ‘…The inability to meet the cost….’
We are possibly of a similar age (‘Boomer’s perhaps?) in that we are aware of the value of education and took steps to educate our children BEFORE they went to school and to give them the ability to communicate verbally, via the written word and to read; if only in simple sentences. Early Childhood Eduction’ if it existed at all, would have consisted of either kindy or (much later) play centre, with kindy being always the preferred option. As part of our efforts to prepare our children for school and the ‘real world’, we probably made use of the local Public Library.
Such libraries still exist and their resources are available to all who wish to use them, (even if some councils now insist on the ‘user pays’ principle before allowing books to be removed), yet these resources are under-utilised and their existence is never advertised. At their most basic they actually provide a low-cost means of self-eduction.
HOWEVER, the problem is that, as previously noted, the existence of Public Libraries is now never mentioned and I do wonder if it is perhaps it is time to revive the idea that reading is ‘cool’ and actually ‘healthy’, and to get people back into books?
I would suggest that, a ‘return to reading’ and the very positive benefits that accrue from such a practice, would go a long way to solving the ‘…Inability to meet the cost’ aspect that you mentioned’, could perhaps start a ‘home eduction / self-education’ movement and could even lead to a reduction in the dependency that many have on state institutions.
Just a thought; I would be interested in your opinion.
Yes, I am a ‘boomer’ and yes, a visit to the library was a very big part of our family life, as was play centre.
I agree with you totally regarding books. I firmly believe you can tell a lot about a child’s future, by simply asking them how many books are in their home. Sadly today, there are children who will be unable to answer that question, because the only books they can think of are adult books, such as the tv guide or the phone book.
Television of course played a major role. A parent didn’t need to sit and ‘explain the bigger words’ and so forth, so children not only missed out on some valuable learning opportunities, but also on the one-to-one parent contact. There are so many families today where the parents never sit with the children. That sounds extreme, but it is true. The children watch tv, whilst the parent goes about their tasks etc, the children eat in front of tv and go to bed directly from being in front of a television set. (Which raises many issues regarding stimulation of the visual cortex and the ability to maintain restful sleep as well).
Reading a book to a children is much more than just a learning experience, it develops relationship skills and imagination. Libraries are important, but how to get that message through is the million dollar question.
You are against progress of any sort
That makes you a retardist
Retard for short
You should go back to swinging around in the trees like a good un progressed monkey.
and stop cluttering up this LIBERAL PROGRESSIVE blog with pathetic propaganda designed for ignorant redneck usa
Komata: While I’m not of a similar age (Gen X) – I have both been reading to my children since they were born, and demonstrated my own love of reading (by them seeing me relaxing with a book) all through their early years. While I never formally tried to teach them to read in any systematic way, they have consistantly been above their age for reading once they started. And at thier last birthday their reactions to presents were “Clothes – meh, lego – that’s cool, BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
And yes, Public libraries are under-rated – both as a learning opportunity, and as a way of keeping kids entertained for ages at no cost!!!!! The local library is one of the most popular destinations for holiday outings in this household.
But, IMHO, the key has been that we, the parents, have shown to our children the value of reading right from the start.
@ Pete George (22,697 comments) says:
July 22nd, 2014 at 9:07 am
The biggest error has been in using the word poverty – I guess it was chosen for its emotive value, however, for most Kiwis a symbol of poverty is a small thin child with a swollen belly, holding a rice bowl. Of course that image just doesn’t assimilate with anything we see in New Zealand.
What is being flaunted as poverty is in fact deprivation. There are children in New Zealand who for various reasons, none of which are their own doing, who are deprived from accessing what we deem to be basic requirements in this country.
Personally I think there has been too much involvement from people with various axes to grind into the debate, which has now become so complicated, and has absorbed so much money, that it is out of control – especially by those who see addressing poverty as a ‘gravy train’ for their own benefit.
The big question is of course, how to solve it.
If it was up to me, I’d go back to the beginning. Just exactly what do New Zealand children need to be able to reach their full potential. (Of course we need to define ‘full potential’ first).
Once we have identified a realistic list of what we expect for minimum standards, then we can work out how we are going to assist parents in providing that for their children. By assistance I do not mean welfare, or subsidies, but more educating parents/potential parents on how they can and should play a fundamental role in (for example) educating and encouraging their children to develop skills (especially when the family finances do not allow them to pay others to do this for them).
The North American continent is exposed to every type of hazardous weather peril – tropical cyclone, thunderstorm, winter storm, tornado, wildfire, drought and flood. And nowhere in the world is the rising number of natural catastrophes more evident than here. The number of weather-related loss events in North America for the past three decades has nearly quintupled.
Like the number of weather catastrophes, the losses they caused in North America is increasing. Even disregarding 2005 (a record year with Hurricanes Katrina, Rita and Wilma), overall and insured losses reveal an upward trend in the past three decades. In 2011, insured property damage due to thunderstorms was the highest on record at an estimated US$ 26bn – more than double the previous US thunderstorm record set in 2010.
Anthropogenic climate change is believed to contribute to this trend, though it influences various perils in different ways. Climate change particularly affects formation of heat-waves, droughts, intense precipitation events, and in the long run most probably also tropical cyclone intensity. The view that weather extremes are becoming more frequent and intense in various regions due to global warming is in keeping with current scientific findings, as set out in the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) as well as in the special report on weather extremes and disasters (SREX).
“I never realised he was such a poster boy for the left,…”
I watched the interview last night and it did not get the impression that he was a poster boy for the left. He started off talking about “Cunliffe’s” holiday and said something to the effect that taking the holiday was no reason to damn “Cunliffe” – there were plenty of other reasons to do that. He repeatedly referred to “Cunliffe” but, when talking about Key, he referred to “John Key”. It became quite obvious that he had little time for Cunliffe and it was not until most of the way through the interview that he realised that he was expressing a jaundiced view of Cunliffe and referred to “David Cunliffe”.
@ Redbaiter (7,518 comments) says:
July 22nd, 2014 at 9:15 am
For a start I am a fast typist, although not to accurate. Secondly, I’m a fast thinker, although again you might argue, not a very accurate one.
I get up at 4.30 am most days, so I can get at least 2-3 hours writing/marking/study done before the rest of my world wakes up. By 8 a.m. I am almost in the middle of my day – and take the next few hours to do some surfing, check on the news, KB and a couple of other blogs I sometimes visit. Some days I have more time than others.
Of course there is the other factor, that my day just doesn’t feel complete until I have upset you in some way or other 🙂
He denied he’d lost control of his MPs and the wider party, but would not seek to dole out punishment for the claims.
“It’s always a team game and ultimately it’s collective responsibility,” he said.
“Each and every one of us has a responsibility to do the best we can for the movement.
“Of course it is inappropriate and regrettable when people try to take things into their own hands and are disloyal to the team and to their leader.
“Ultimately the result is they hurt their colleagues and they hurt the movement, and possibly the person who is concerned, who I do not think is an MP, has had time to reflect on that – and I [will be] very surprised if anything happens like that again.”
The biggest error has been in using the word poverty
Yes. Overusing it. We could do with being deprived of the word and actual issues addressed without resorting to overused words that were always debatable and are now meaningless. Pushing ‘poverty’ too hard may become a turn off for voters.
the facts are Victor Yanukovitch was overthrown by the Ukrainian people due to a lack of economic progress , poor living standards , his pro Russian stance and they much preferring the idea of joining the EU than the oligarchic despotic Russian system.
There is absolutely no evidence the US sponsored or supported the protests unless you believe the Kremlin controlled RT and other news agencies .
As the link below shows its all part of a strategic game played out by Putin’s Russia ,
The BUK 37 anti missile system and its variations and implements have been in operation since 1979.Yes the Ukraine has some of these and yes some of these fell into Doensk Rebel hands. Russian News agencies reported this fact but subsequently withdrew them .
EAD and Paul Craig Roberts ,WHY.?
Murder of Russian separatists or as result of military actions e.g the downing of the Ukraine AN 26 transporter and other clashes ??
If the Rebels are blamed , as it seems very likely the case , then yes it would be a big blow to Putin’s credibility and stature not least the Rebels Russia is supporting and sponsoring in the Eastern Ukraine.
The more modern variant of the BUK 37 is relatively easy to operate and there is evidence Moscow is providing the rebels with logistic support and advice . Recall also the Rebels were very proud of shooting down an Ukrainian AN 26 shortly before the downing of MH 17
The canard by PCR about Syria is a Polemic which like his other opining in your post has little or no respect for evidence and the facts
That must be a problem because the would-be social engineers tell us that crappy, uncaring parents are our problem. And to make sure of that they present a convincing”: case, they have constructed their own definition.
When I was attending primary school in Napier, my Father ran his own logging hauling business, and my mother was the “senior” typist clerk in the town’s leading law office. We owned (well, were buying) our own home, my mother had a new Morris 8 car, and the family assistance payments received went into savings accounts for my brother and I. Once I even got to fly in a DC 3 from Napier to Wellington for an eye surgery consultation. (Actually the road party from Paraparaumu to Wellington took longer than the flight to Paraparaumu).
But I was “poor”, and my younger brother was poor, because we could not afford to attend Hereworth School in Havelock North, and, crime of crimes, when it rained we ran to school in our bare feet. Gumboots? What were gumboots?
The social engineers of 2014 have so skewed the definition of poverty that my brother and I would be classified as “poor” by their idiotic definition. And they go further than gumboots to include Sky and paid holidays (we took a tent and went to a river to hunt eels).
The poverty issue in 2014 is parental selfishness and deliberate, uncaring neglect. I take no responsibility whatsoever. The social engineers can get stuffed.
Judith, after much thinking (very hard for me) I have come up with a solution for your children in poverty problem. Vouchers! Ones you can’t buy alcohol and smokes with, the TAB won’t take them and they won’t fit into a pokie machine. I just know you’ll love my idea! And the good news is, if people don’t like them they don’t have to accept them. Benefits aren’t compulsory! Mind you if the Greens ever get in they probably will be.
@ Tarquin North (106 comments) says:
July 22nd, 2014 at 9:52 am
I don’t like the idea at all Tarquin – sorry. Apart from being very open to abuse in that they can be sold for cash to people that do need those items, it is more of ‘ambulance at the bottom of the cliff’ stuff. It does not teach anyone anything other than if you fail to provide, someone else will do it for you. As a short term measure, maybe, as a long term remedy – no way.
At last I’ve found a link with the Voice of Russia item news report intact where they boasted about a Ukrainian Anti Air to surface system falling into pro Russian rebel hands.
My earlier links had the news item removed. IBT somehow was able to keep it intact.
“…They will fight until the last kid they have to hide behind is dead…”
They hid at the El-Wafa hospital.
They hid at the Al-Aqsa hospital.
They hid at the beach, where children played football.
They hid at the yard of 75-year-old Muhammad Hamad.
They hid among the residential quarters of Shujaya.
They hid in the neighbourhoods of Zaytoun and Toffah.
They hid in Rafah and Khan Younis.
They hid in the home of the Qassan family.
They hid in the home of the poet, Othman Hussein.
They hid in the village of Khuzaa.
They hid in the thousands of houses damaged or destroyed.
They hid in 84 schools and 23 medical facilities.
They hid in a cafe, where Gazans were watching the World Cup.
They hid in the ambulances trying to retrieve the injured.
They hid themselves in 24 corpses, buried under rubble.
They hid themselves in a young woman in pink household slippers, sprawled on the pavement, taken down while fleeing.
They hid themselves in two brothers, eight and four, lying in the intensive burn care unit in Al-Shifa.
They hid themselves in the little boy whose parts were carried away by his father in a plastic shopping bag.
They hid themselves in the “incomparable chaos of bodies” arriving at Gaza hospitals.
They hid themselves in an elderly woman, lying in a pool of blood on a stone floor.
Hamas, they tell us, is cowardly and cynical.
You have to wonder how New Zealanders would react if senior Russian Politicians came here and addressed crowds of protesters encouraging them to overthrow our Government and replace it with a coalition of Mana and the Greens by not allowing National MPs to enter the debating chamber through threats of violence?
I’m not going to speculate Mikenmild, except to say it has nothing to do with Russia
You see my friend there is more than one civil war going on in Ukraine, it is not just the simple narrative of the “legitimate”Government in Kiev against “pro Russian separatists” that you have been fed.
We don’t know the facts yet. But the best possible interim situation appears to have been reached, the crash site opened to investigators, the bodies released to Dutch forensic services and the black boxes surrendered to Malaysian authorities – care for the deceased’s remains, diplomacy and due process have risen above the tragedy.
Fancy that eh, not a charter school, not a fancy private school, probably doesn’t have a zone where people pay $500,000 extra for living a few metres here or there.
Fancy that, didn’t make the headlines on the sites which are quick to point at any frailties in public schooling and super fast to point out any success in a charter school in somewhere like New Hampshire.
Judith, re: poverty cycles:
“We should just continue to let the cycle repeat itself, and not make any attempt to break it?”
But this i exactly what you are doing – aiding and abetting in maintaining that cycle. Your do-goodie policies do nothing to break it, only to perpetuate it. Indeed, why would anyone waste their money to feed their children when they know you will do it anyway … with our money.
The Guardian is usually too far Left for me, but it has online an interesting piece from its fellow lefty publication The Observer about why the finance gurus may have fucked up the West’s economies, and an interesting tack being taken by the rising BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China). It reckons there’s a flaw in Schumpeter’s creative destruction model.
“So why would Russia escalate a major geopolitical crisis right on its borders at this time?”
‘Cause it can?
‘Cause it’s been waiting for a long, long time for a good moment to re-conquest its Southern neighbour?
‘Cause its imperial ambitions know no bounds?
Well, apparently the Kremlin ‘strongman’ decided it’s time to make his move now, that’s why.
‘So why would Russia escalate a major geopolitical crisis right on its borders at this time?’
I don’t think Russia has intentionally sought this crisis. It has, however, risked just such a crisis by arming the separatists. Some reports are that Russia provided the advanced surface-to air missile systems and, possibly, the personnel to operate them. Doubtless Russia did not intend for those weapons to be used against a civilian airliner, but it seems to have happened.
As for ‘triumphant tour of South America’, did you read that in a Kremlin press release?
Slipster (30 comments) says:
July 22nd, 2014 at 11:02 am
But this i exactly what you are doing – aiding and abetting in maintaining that cycle. Your do-goodie policies do nothing to break it, only to perpetuate it..
MY do good policies? Please outline exactly what MY do good policies are, and where you have sourced them from, because as yet, I’m not aware I have any, or have ever constructed any, let alone published them? I am extremely critical of the current and past policies that have provided nothing more than temporary fixes and locked people into a system of ‘neediness’. If you know otherwise, please feel free to inform us!
Jack5, the thinking posters you refer to, should know the main fact about the Russian economy (which you, for some obscure reason, think is rising) – its ONLY mainstay is its gas(&oil) exports. Where to? Why, the West of course. Notice that every time there is a glut or slump in that market, its economy nosedives and badly so.
There is a very strong suspicion at this time that the whole Crimea/Ukraine adventure was undertaken as a kind of a small victorious war so loved by the failing dictators faced with intractable economic problems at home.
If THIS is the foundation of the BRIC world banks etc, they will need more than just good luck.
Well, if you admit to having no policies on the matter or views on what they should be, I’ll have to qualify what I said as:
“What appear to be your policies or views on what they should be” – better now?
But seriously, apart from nitpicking, your views on the subject have been expressed here so consistently and so many times that your are simply being disingenuous trying to hide behind some weasel words.
Whether the BRICs are rising or not, the question is why has Western economic thinking stagnated. The West is slipping.
What sparked my interest is why, in the last 15 or so years, the relative development of Israel and NZ technology industries. They were on a par at first, and we were swapping ideas. Now Israel is one of the top dozen or so in the world in technology, and we, well we’re ahead of Samoa and Tonga still.
Israel’s development has been fostered by high co-operation between the tech sector and the Israeli military, which is another form of State involvement in industry. It has been helped subsequently, of course by an extremely well targeted tech-immigrant policy.
One thing of interest to NZ in her statements is her point that Huawei, which is cleaning up in international telecommunications, got started with a boost of billions from the Chinese State.
I don’t go along with Professor Mariana Mazzucato fully, but she is worth listening to, and rebutting, or taking some of her ideas and adapting them for capitalism. If you think China is practising state capitalism, Mazzucato’s work may offer some hints we may benefit from thinking about. If you think China’s economy is not state capitalism, then Slipster, you may be right.
Mazzucato in a video talk (I don’t go along with all these lefties, but she is interesting)…
Whoops the link is gone but if you search for this on Google you should get it: Innovation: Do private returns Produce the Social Returns we Need?
@ Slipster (33 comments) says:
July 22nd, 2014 at 11:22 am
You’ve made 33 comments, and been here how long?, and you know I have ‘consistently’ expressed ‘so many’ views on the subject, and presumably ‘know’ what those views are, and that they support the current system of dealing with poverty??
My, aren’t you a clever one – albeit a very confused one if that is what you think!
Mikemild the people in Russia and China are poorer than people in the West but their countries are not in debt, rather they are both owed money by the West.
The US Government alone is 17 trillion dollars in debt, much of it owed to China and a not insignificant amount owed to Russia.
The US Government is borrowing a billion dollars a day while the sale of adult diapers is an increasing market in that country while the sale of infant diapers is declining (saw that in the NYT the other day 🙂 )
I picked just one country as an example only.
Regarding China – yes, for now it is a strong player although it’s worth noticing that in recent times it is beginning to slip too with one of their top party/govt reps just the other day going public with the statement that growth below some earlier “floor” figures would be acceptable. However, if you want to call that alliance “China et al” – you are welcome to it 🙂
Regarding IT situation and you comparisons with other countries: you are generally on the right track there but I would also add the infamous “Tall poppy syndrome” so dominant in NZ (accompanied by the “Simple Kiwi” variant), immigration policies which are not very friendly towards qualified tech people and there you have it.
While I admire much of what Hinch has done, that rambling and inane video of him going on about Rolf Harris was too much for me to stay with through to the end. If you are going to take as gospel the verdict of a jury, then it seems only fair to me that you must also do so when that verdict is one of not guilty. Hence Hinch should show equal respect to the decision of the judge in the particular case of the sportsman he has written about in his latest blog.
One doesn’t have to run at one’s mouth like you do to know what’s what.
To the contrary – prolific writers like yourself are normally the confused ones, simply because they don’t have the time to stop to think.
As for me being confused? How so? I don’t see you supporting your claim so disregard it as just another personal insult from yet another incoherent Leftie.
The growth of NZ as a feasible modern economic entity owes heaps to State agricultural and horticultural research.
We were successful at building a mixed economy on that. Similarly with forestry, where the Forest Research Institute was central to the development of plantation forestry based on Pinus radiata. They needed free enterprise to build on this of course, with door-to-door salesman selling tiny stakes in Perpetual Forests.
Forest researchers were close to proving the feasibility of 40-year rotation kauri, which would have been brilliant for economy-throttled Northland, when the big private companies dismembered themselves.
My point is that with the milk bubble about to burst, we should be thinking, and thinking hard, about optimum economic trends for NZ. With our economy so small, the State has got to be part of kick-starting industries. Yes, picking winners is the problem, but China, and earlier Japan and Germany were highly successful at that.
Regardless, Massucato’s views are one way of getting the debate rolling.
@ Slipster (35 comments) says:
July 22nd, 2014 at 11:49 am
I challenge you to find one post of mine on the subject where I support the current system that deals with ‘poverty’ (a concept I don’t agree with) by paying welfare and giving assistance to the parents, on here. You are the one guilty of shooting your mouth off, because if you read my historical posts you’d know that, and even just those today on the subject you will see I am very critical of the system that locks people into welfare, that expects others to provide when they won’t provide for themselves. If you were by your own inference a rational thinker that took time to examine the subject, you would see my thoughts on this issue are very much against the status quo and the current welfare system, and the provision of paid early education for those in ‘poverty’ etc. You don’t see me supporting my claim? Try reading my comment at 8.56 a.m. then.
It’s fairly obvious that you are not a new poster, and that you are attempting to carry on some past issue you have with me, which doesn’t worry me in the slightest, but at least be honest about it – because on this particular subject, you are very wrong.
Russians Scramble To Edit Wikipedia So The Kremlin’s Claims Make Sense
As we reported earlier, the Kremlin now says that flight MH17 was “tailed” by a Ukrainian military Su-25 aircraft during much of its flight over Ukraine. As we pointed out, this claim may be physically impossible since Russia says that the Su-25 was consistently between 3 and 5 kilometers away from MH17, but the Su-25 can’t fly high enough to have this claim make any sense.
Well, today the Su-25 has been given some significant upgrades — at least on Wikipedia. Several IP addresses that track back to central Moscow appear to have edited the maximum altitude of the Su-25 from 7 kilometers to 10 kilometers to match the flight path of MH17.
One such IP address that made such a change appears to use the “ROSNIIROS” ISP (Russian Institute for Public Networks) and, according to one IP tracking service, is associated with an organization called “JSK IT. Information Technologies Co.”
Another address that made this change is also from Moscow and was tracked back to the “Closed joint-stock company Telecommunication company.”
We have not translated the full transcript of the Russian press conference yet, but according to an editor for the Russian Kremlin-operated propaganda network RT, the claim is that the Su-25 can briefly climb to 10,000 meters (though there’s no indication of this capability on the manufacturer’s website).
@ Albert_Ross (240 comments) says:
July 22nd, 2014 at 12:15 pm
We stop calling it poverty for starters, because that title is misleading and doesn’t address what the real issue is.
The real issue is deprivation. Some children in NZ are not getting what we have deemed as basic necessities (relative necessities) for various reasons, including parental inability to recognise the need, or mismanagement of resources.
Just quickly, and not completely – I would in a cross-party committee, establish what is our bottom line for ‘basic necessities’. For example, I do not consider that children need a television in their homes, however, the govt currently does and provides welfare to cover it. Therefore we need to examine that – and determine whether it is a ‘necessity’.
A necessity should be decided in my opinion, on whether it is needed to assist a child reach their full potential. (With the realisation that full potential for one, may be different to that of another – eg university education for a child that will never be able to make the grade.
Once we have established the ‘basic minimum’ then we look at how parents can provide that (note parents – because it is up to the parents to provide for their children, not the government).
I am not sure how it can or would be achieved, but the emphasis should be on teaching parents what they must do to provide their children with these things. We have to accept that because we have allowed the welfare trap to become what it is, there are entire families with two or more generations of bad parenting practices that simply do not know – or feel no responsibility.
Like it or not, we have to find a way to teach them to be responsible – because continuing to provide assistance is doing quite the opposite. Trouble is, making parents responsible will not win votes – it will be unpopular – it means if necessary, that some families would have to have their entire incomes ‘managed’ until they learn to do it themselves and so on. But the emphasis should always be on educating the community to do it for themselves – the giving a man a fishing line and teaching him how to fish, as opposed to giving him a meal – philosophy.
It is 45 years since we landed on the Moon, and here is the prepared statement that would have been released had the mission failed (link includes scan of typed statement).
IN EVENT OF MOON DISASTER:
Fate has ordained that the men who went to the moon to explore in peace will stay on the moon to rest in peace.
These brave men, Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin, know that there is no hope for their recovery. But they also know that there is hope for mankind in their sacrifice.
These two men are laying down their lives in mankind’s most noble goal: the search for truth and understanding.
They will be mourned by their families and friends; they will be mourned by their nation; they will be mourned by the people of the world; they will be mourned by a Mother Earth that dared send two of her sons into the unknown.
In their exploration, they stirred the people of the world to feel as one; in their sacrifice, they bind more tightly the brotherhood of man.
In ancient days, men looked at stars and saw their heroes in the constellations. In modern times, we do much the same, but our heroes are epic men of flesh and blood.
Others will follow, and surely find their way home. Man’s search will not be denied. But these men were the first, and they will remain the foremost in our hearts.
For every human being who looks up at the moon in the nights to come will know that there is some corner of another world that is forever mankind.
Did you know Malaysia Air Flight 17 was full of corpses when it took off from Amsterdam? Did you know that, for some darkly inexplicable reason, on July 17, MH17 moved off the standard flight path that it had taken every time before, and moved north, toward rebel-held areas outside Donetsk? Or that the dispatchers summoned the plane lower just before the crash? Or that the plane had been recently reinsured? Or that the Ukrainian army has air defense systems in the area? Or that it was the result of the Ukrainian military mistaking MH17 for Putin’s presidential plane, which looks strangely similar?
Did you know that the crash of MH17 was all part of an American conspiracy to provoke a big war with Russia?
Well, it’s all true—at least if you live in Russia, because this is the Malaysia Airlines crash story that you’d be seeing.
Lucia Maria , I see Andrei with RT’s help is at it again , this time suggesting an Ukrainian SU 25 could of shadowed MH 17 and even shot it down.
The problem with that is the SU 25 is a purpose built ground assault support aircraft. It is likened to its US equivalent the A 10. As a ground assault aircraft the SU 25 was not designed to fly at 33,000 and has a maximum ceiling of 22,000 ( 7,000 meters ).
Obviously RT have not thought through this latest smoke screen very well.Possibly they might take the original article down and do a re edit with an – oops sorry ! we meant a Sukhoi SU 27 .
If you ever needed confirmation of what a total tosser and self important prat Kennedy Graham
of the Greens is he just proved it with his ‘contribution’ today in Parliament.
This knowall fool took it upon himself to speak for longer than all other parties conbined.
You could see many members, even those from his own party squirming in their seats with embarrassment
wishing he would just STFU and sit down.
Redbaiter, Manolo and a few of their friends might switch to NZ First going by some of these policies:
An end to Maori entitlement when it comes to the allocation of justice and health system resources. Our prisons, diabetes clinics and cancer wards are for all New Zealanders, not just an elite privileged group.
Key household food items to be exempt from GST: tea, anything that is eaten mashed, and anything served with gravy.
All ethnic foods to attract a GST rate of 1000%
The government to buy back all assets sold off by National, including Mighty River Power, Meridian, Genesis, and the Reserve Bank.
Typewriters in all schools by 2025.
A new school curriculum will focus on the three “R”s: Reading, Writing, and Rambling on about how things were different back when I was growing up, we had it tough you know, and people used to show respect, but nowadays they’re all so busy texting and with their Facebook and Twitter, I can’t see the point of it all, and no-one even speaks English when you go into your corner dairy, and when you ring the phone company you end up being transferred to someone in Timbuktu, and I just want a bloody coffee with milk, is that too much to ask for?
Here’s a good one:
In two studies, 5- and 6-year-old children were questioned about the status of the protagonist embedded in three different types of stories. In realistic stories that only included ordinary events, all children, irrespective of family background and schooling, claimed that the protagonist was a real person. In religious stories that included ordinarily impossible events brought about by divine intervention, claims about the status of the protagonist varied sharply with exposure to religion. Children who went to church or were enrolled in a parochial school, or both, judged the protagonist in religious stories to be a real person, whereas secular children with no such exposure to religion judged the protagonist in religious stories to be fictional. Children’s upbringing was also related to their judgment about the protagonist in fantastical stories that included ordinarily impossible events whether brought about by magic (Study 1) or without reference to magic (Study 2). Secular children were more likely than religious children to judge the protagonist in such fantastical stories to be fictional. The results suggest that exposure to religious ideas has a powerful impact on children’s differentiation between reality and fiction, not just for religious stories but also for fantastical stories.
….”and I just want a bloody coffee with milk, is that too much to ask for? “…..
Bloody good point although I’ll concede that it shouldn’t take the might of the state to provide resolution. Truth is I happen to enjoy my heaped teaspoon of International Granulated, the half teaspoon of sugar, the absolutely boiling point water poured over it & the dash of milk dumped in afterwards. I am making no sacrifice to drink it.
But everywhere in town one can order a coffee prides themselves on serving overpriced, over creamed, chocolatety, stone cold muck in a cup about the same size as the saucer. Unless one has a fetish for jamming frothed milk up one’s nose it is a disappointing consumer experience.
All this for $6 & served by an expert with enough metal in his pimply face to change the position of magnetic North.
Coffee is no longer a drink…..it’s become a ritual.
(Jewish) UN Rapporteur Richard Falk was saying this “Israel Guilty of Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid” , back in March 2014.
What would he be saying now – after the Israeli State TERRORIST attack on Palestinians in Gaza, and murdering of hundreds of civilians, especially defenceless little kids?
Israel Guilty of Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid, Says UN Rapporteur
Umberto Bacchi By Umberto Bacchi
March 21, 2014 18:57 BST
UN Human Rights Investigator Richard Falk Israel Ethnic Cleansing and Apartheid Policies Palestine
United Nations Special Rapporteur on occupied Palestine, Richard FalkReuters
A UN human rights investigator has accused Israel of ethnic cleansing and apartheid policies against Palestinians.
Richard Falk, the UN special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories, said Israel carried out a “systematic and continued effort to change the ethnic composition of East Jerusalem”.
Falk, an 82-year-old American, said that in recent years Israel had made it more difficult for Palestinians to reside there while encouraging the building of new Jewish settlements, which are illegal under international law.
Falk, an emeritus law professor at Princeton University, said that more than 11,000 Palestinians had lost their right to live in Jerusalem since 1996.
“The 11,000 is just the tip of the iceberg because many more are faced with possible challenges to their residency rights,” he said.
Falk, who is Jewish, described Israeli policies as bearing “unacceptable characteristics of colonialism, apartheid and ethnic cleansing”.
“What is called occupation is now more widely understood to be a form of annexation, the embodiment of apartheid in the sense that there’s a discriminatory dual system of law, giving legal protection to the Israeli settlers and subjecting the Palestinian population under occupation to a continuing existence without rights,” he said.
Falk said that the “realities on the ground” for the Palestinian people have worsened since he took up his post in 2008. He is due to step down later this month.
He said Israel’s settlements in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem hampered the outcome of deadlocked peace talks between Tel Aviv and the Palestinian Authority.
“Every increment of enlarging the settlements or every incident of house demolition is a way of worsening the situation confronting the Palestinian people and reducing what prospects they might have as the outcome of supposed peace negotiations.
“There are other reasons for encouraging the idea that it’s still possible to negotiate a settlement based on the two-state model, even though most informed observers regard it as highly implausible given the changes that have taken place during the period of occupation and given the outlook of the Netanyahu government,” he said.
Manolo, these reviews sum up Ronald Kessler especially “garbage in garbage out “. You and Fletch will faint with shock when learning even Thomas jefferson was a bit of philander having a mistress in the White House,
@ nasska (10,599 comments) says:
July 22nd, 2014 at 4:08 pm
You think you’ve got problems – try telling people you don’t drink tea or coffee. At least when you ask for an instant, no one wants to know what religion you are, or whether you are on some sort of health kick.
Gaza Is a Concentration Camp, And It’s an American Delusion Not to Recognize That—Weschler
Prestigious, mainstream journalist says what others are afraid to.
Photo Credit: mikhail/Shutterstock.com
July 21, 2014 |
Lawrence Weschler, a writer of considerable mainstream prestige, is sick of prevaricating about Israel. It’s rabid. It has rabies.
And Gaza is a concentration camp. Weschler has let loose chiefly because of the “remorseless” and “repetitively compulsive” aspect of Israeli violence. I believe that understanding is now widely shared in the liberal mainstream, and interventions like Weschler’s make it easier for others to speak up. From Truthdig:
I know, I know, and I am bone tired of being told it, when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, there is plenty of blame to go around, but by this point after coming on almost 50 years of Israeli stemwinding and procrastinatory obfuscation, I’d put the proportionate distribution of blame at about the same level as the mortality figures—which is, where are we today (what with Wednesday morning’s four children killed while out playing on a Gaza beach)? What, 280 to 2?
For the single overriding fact defining the Israeli-Palestinian impasse at this point is that if the Palestinians are quiescent and not engaged in any overt rebellion, the Israelis (and here I am speaking of the vast majority of the population who somehow go along with the antics of their leaders, year after year) manage to tell themselves that things are fine and there’s no urgent need to address the situation; and if, as a result, the endlessly put-upon Palestinians do finally rise up in any sort of armed resistance (rocks to rockets), the same Israelis exasperate, “How are we supposed to negotiate with monsters like this?” A wonderfully convenient formula, since it allows the Israelis to go blithely on, systematically stealing Palestinian land in the West Bank, and continuing to confine 1.8 million Gazans within what might well be described as a concentration camp.
Note, incidentally, I say “concentration camp” and not “death camp.” I am not comparing Gaza to Auschwitz-Birkenau, but one cannot help but liken the conditions today in Gaza to the sorts of conditions once faced by Japanese-Americans during World War II, or the Boers in South Africa during the Anglo-Boer War, or the black South Africans years later in such besieged townships as Soweto, or for that matter Jews and gays and gypsies at Dachau and Theresienstadt in the years before the Nazis themselves settled on their Final Solution.
And it is quite simply massively self-serving delusion that Israelis (and their enablers and abettors here in America, among whom incidentally I count a steadily declining number of American Jews) refuse to recognize that fact.
Weschler goes on to say that support for Israel is strongest in the U.S. among evangelicals. This is a standard dodge, employed by liberals, to avoid the hard reflective work of considering the power of the reactionary Jewish establishment. Does Obama care a fig about evangelicals when it comes to gay marriage or abortion? No. But here there is a unity of interest, and the power is in the Jewish establishment. Israel calls on Jews to recognize what Avram Burg said a few years back at the NY Public Library, that Jews created two structures in the wake of the Holocaust, a Jewish state and an American Jewish leadership.
For me Zionism was the scaffolding… that was supposed to help the Jewish people to rebuild, to restruct [sic] itself from an exilic reality to sovereignty. And the structure went on and on and on and on, and and now 150 and 100 and some years later, when you look around the Jewish existential reality, you realize that actually the Jewish people built two structures. One is the semi-autonomous American Jewry, which was not here 150 years ago– powerful influence, access to the corridors of power, impact on the culture, and civilization… plus the infrastructure of the community of solidarity and fraternity and support system and education etc and also the sovereignty over there in the Middle East.
Thanks to Ed Moloney.
Concentration camps where the inmates get to fire hundreds of rockets at a sovereign and democratic nation? Where they get supplies of armaments in from hate filled co religionists?Where the inmates close down other inmates shops for selling alcohol? Where they desecrate the war graves of fallen WW1 soldiers who have Christian headstones.
Doesn’t sound like a concentration camp. Sounds like a hate filled Islamistan.
So when John Key doesn’t apologise to ‘Tarn” he is “undermining someone who is seeking justice”
The sooner this diplomat comes back and we can see the details of the ‘serious’ sexual offence (alleged)
If JK donned sackcloth, covered himself with ashes and flagellated himself with stinging netles it
still wouldn’t be enough for Angela Black, Meturia Turei or Tarn. Not to mention that piece of work Logie.
Maori, Jew and Australian, drinking beer in an outback pub. One night as they’re leaving, a road-train comes through the town and kills all three. The next day, the publican is surprised to see the Australian – who assumed dead – walked through the door. The Australian tells him, “Well, we were all killed, but when we got to the pearly gates, St. Peter said we could come back to earth if we pay him $20.” “Well, obviously, you paid up, but what happened to your friends?” “The jew’s trying to haggle him down to $10, and the Maori is trying to convince him that the government will pay for it.”
a little boy is at home with his family. He gets into the flour and puts it all over his face goes up to his mother and says ” look mom, im a little white boy” his mom slaps him across the face and says ” go see your uncle.. the boy goes to see his uncle and says ” look uncle, im a little white boy” the uncle slaps him across the face and says ” go see your grandmother” the little boy goes to see his grandmother and says ” look grandma, im a little white boy” grandmother slaps him and says ” go see your mother”
the little boy goes to see his mother. His mother says to him ” what have you learned?” the little boy says ” ive been white for 5 minutes and i already hate you fuckin Maori”
Poor ole Gosman was getting heaps of shit thrown at him by the retards over at the Stranded,
then a person called Greywarbler came on and said this…..
“I put forward that criticisms of David Cunliffe from any source here should be limited to one comment. And then denial of access or the next comments be wiped or banned. This to apply right to the end of the election. I would like The Standard to consider this seriously. It is indeed a serious matter at this time of approaching an election of vital importance to us all.”
Paul was ambling through a crowded street fair when he decided to stop and sit at a Palm Reader’s table. Said the mysterious old woman, “For fifteen dollars, I can read your love line and tell your romantic future.”
Paul readily agreed and the reader took one look at his open palm and said, “I can see that you have no girlfriend.”
“That’s true,” said Paul.
“Oh my goodness, you are extremely lonely, aren’t you?”
“Yes,” Paul shamefully admitted. “That’s amazing. Can you tell all of this from my love line?”
“Love line? No, from the calluses and blisters.”
With Greens involved to nail McCully and Key if they can, Tania Billingsley complains of Key’s bored attitude – her perception, or even preconception – so an inquiry is instigated, but Greens/Billingsley still want Key at this stage to apologise, which of course would slant the inquiry a little.
Meanwhile Cunliffe who is now sorry he didn’t more clearly explain what he meant by earlier being earnestly “sorry for being a man”, has said a Labour Government would reverse Article 11, United Nations Declaration of Human Rights, to change the onus of proof in the type of case involving the Malaysian Embassy staff member.
His return may not now be until after the Election, if then.
Finally a bit of good news on the war against bugs & our own scientists are at the vanguard:
….”The war against drug-resistant superbugs is being lost, but Wellington scientists won’t surrender and are working on new, cheap antibiotics that could help stem the emerging global health crisis. “…..
….”By rearranging the enzymes that make a specific antibiotic, a different one can be created that resistant bacteria won’t recognise”…..
Two Aussies, Bruce & Ken were down on their luck and hanging out for a cold drink or three. After checking their pockets and finding only 50 cents, Bruce came up with a brilliant strategy. “I’ll take the 50 cents and show you how we can drink all day for free!”
Quickly, he went into a butcher’s shop and bought a single sausage, which he stuck in Ken’s fly. They then went to a nearby hotel. “Two beers”‘ said Bruce to the bartender. They downed them as fast as they could and the bartender waited for the money.
All of a sudden, Bruce got down on his knees and began sucking the sausage hanging out of Ken’s fly. “Get out of my pub, you filthy poofters!”, the bartender screamed and booted them out the door.
They did this all day, visiting about 16 pubs. “I just can’t do this anymore”, Bruce whined. “My knees are getting sore from kneeling”.
“It’s alright for you”, Ken replied. “I lost the sausage after the third pub.”
A certain badcam from TM has posted the link below purporting to demonstrate Ukrainian complicity in the downing of M17.A closer examination reveals a mish mash of Official Russian and RT sources with no attempt to properly evaluate their efficacy or relevancy . This includes the big mistake made by RT suggesting Ukraine SU 25s intercepted M17 when it does not have the operational capacity to do so at 33,000 ft
The blog Lew Rockwell gives you a clue about its ability and credibility to properly evaluate questions like this.
Hamas and jihadists need to be taught a harsher lesson
Hamas and jihad are two different things.
Jihad means struggle, in the context of the Gaza struggle by the people against the state is legitimate. The state is targeting the innocent, shelling homes and hospitals and murdering children on the beach.