General Debate 31 July 2014

July 31st, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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283 Responses to “General Debate 31 July 2014”

  1. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

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  2. hj (6,923 comments) says:

    Professor Richard Bedford Professor of Migration Studies Migration Advocacy at Auckland University of Technology and a member of the panel that wrote the report, Our Futures/Te Pae Tawhiti: the 2013 Census and New Zealand’s Changing Population.

    NZ is “very lucky” and “very fortunate” that we can attract migrants “we like migrants”.

    What about [Holy Moniker] tangatawhenua? Unlike the straight shooter at Waitangi who observed that the European rat has devoured the Maori rat, the learned professor thinks tangatawhenua “will engage with diversity”.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/20142313/richard-bedford-future-new-zealand

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  3. Keeping Stock (10,301 comments) says:

    The High Court dealt Kim Dotcom a big blow yesterday, and how does he respond? With another abusive rant on Twitter in which he effectively calls a High Court Judge an “idiot”, and more wild conspiracy theories.

    The net is closing around Herr Dotcom, and the chickens are coming home to roost. The sooner he is transported to the US, the better…

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/show-us-money-kim.html

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  4. artemisia (235 comments) says:

    There is lively discussion – well over 600 posts – on the proposed rental property warrant of fitness scheme on the Propertytalk site here:

    http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/showthread.php?33233-Property-WOF

    Mike Butler has produced a comprehensive paper on the proposed rental warrant of fitness. As reported at the below link:

    “A housing warrant of fitness has been promoted as a way of preventing sickness among children in poverty. The attached report shows that such a regime would have little impact on health outcomes but would come at a considerable cost, driving up rents and forcing some property owners to sell. By increasing rents and reducing the availability of rental housing, this misguided policy would hurt the very families that the advocacy groups purport to want to help. I am a professional property investor and manager, have been working in the industry for 25 years, and have 17 years’ experience with building warrant of fitness compliance regimes.

    The owners of the 411,000 rental properties in New Zealand have not been consulted in any meaningful way on this proposal to introduce a warrant of fitness on rental housing. If they had been consulted, they could have pointed out why this proposal is doomed to fail.”

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1407/S00445/housing-warrant-of-fitness-little-help-for-sick-children.htm

    Mr Butler’s paper is linked from the Scoop article, and is also available here:

    http://www.nzcpr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/NZCPR-Housing-Warrant-of-Fitness-Report.pdf

    The report is comprehensive and well worth a read. One should note, however, that at least one supporter of the proposed scheme thinks Mr Butler has completely misunderstood the research. Judge for yourself.

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  5. Yoza (1,818 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  6. wreck1080 (3,885 comments) says:

    dotcom phone home , go home!

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  7. Other_Andy (2,623 comments) says:

    Global warming or global cooling?

    In 1977, Governor Brown warned that California was facing an unprecedented drought, blamed at the time on global cooling. This year, Governor Brown warned that California faces an unprecedented drought caused by global warming

    In 1977, experts said that freak lightning and fires in California were caused by global cooling. Climate Expert Trenberth says that freak lightning and fires in California happening this year are caused by global warming

    In 1977, Jet Stream dips were blamed on global cooling. They made Alaska warm and Florida cold. This year, Jet Stream dips are blamed on global warming. They still make Alaska warm and Florida cold.

    We now know Global Warming ™ causes everything.
    We know this because we are a lot smarter now than we were in 1977.
    That why we now call it *NEW* *IMPROVED* Climate change.

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  8. fernglas (147 comments) says:

    The Dotcom judgment from yesterday is an interesting read. Highlights include him opposing the orders sought (to disclose his assets) on the grounds that the restraining orders currently in force cover all his New Zealand assets. If that is so, one wonders how he could contribute funds to the Internet/Mana party coffers. The returns filed show that he has paid those funds personally. The payments must have come from him to the party in New Zealand, so they must, on his own counsel’s submission, be retrained funds. On top of that, the Court has found that there is a good arguable case on the copyright infringement litigation, based largely on the contents of the summary of the criminal case.
    If those two propositions are correct, first that payments of restrained money have been made to the IM party and second, that there is a good arguable criminal case disclosed in the summary, then the IM party is at the very least treading in morally and possibly legally questionable waters.

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  9. OneTrack (3,027 comments) says:

    In other news, yesterday Hamas moved a rocket launcher into a new location which may or may not be a un school. While setting up, Achmed said “What could go wrong”

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  10. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    Broke Britain to increase “aid” to Gaza.

    “Thank you infidel,more money for tunnels, rockets and bullets.”

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/493708/Britain-pledges-extra-3m-for-Gaza-UN-school-attacked-by-Israeli-shells

    Let the Qataris,Turks and Saudis fund them,the west has enough problems of its own.

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  11. Elaycee (4,378 comments) says:

    Grabbed a coffee and checked out the online news this morning…

    According to Stuff, the ‘big’ news wasn’t about the ongoing terrorist attacks on Israel; wasn’t about the valedictories in Parliament yesterday; wasn’t about the Crewe report or even the moron with a gun being chased by Police in the BOP. Not even the Commonwealth Games.

    Nah…. the lead story on Stuff was all about… the colour of meerkat poop at some Zoo in Hamilton.

    If ever some bean counter wonders why ‘support’ for traditional media outlets is in freefall, look no further.

    We really deserve better.

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  12. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    Islam’s War Against the Jews: Quotes from the Palestinian Authority

    “Palestinian TV, radio, newspapers and textbooks — in teaching the Islamic attitude toward Jews — have fueled an intense hatred for Israel and promoted violent jihad.”

    http://www.aish.com/jw/me/48883732.html

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  13. Griff (7,520 comments) says:

    1977 :lol:
    have to go that far back do we ?
    its 2014 wingnut
    You seem to be getting a little obsessed with digging up news paper stories from the distant past other andy
    going back to your childhood?
    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2014/6
    The combined average temperature over global land and ocean surfaces for June 2014 was the highest on record for the month, at 0.72°C (1.30°F) above the 20th century average of 15.5°C (59.9°F).

    As to the name
    IPCC established 1988 guess what the cc stands for?
    climate change

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  14. mandk (968 comments) says:

    @ Yoza,

    Admit it. Peace will come when Hamas lays down its arms and renounces its policy of obliterating Israel.

    Look to what’s happening in Iraq right now, if you want to see what will happen if Israel were to stop fighting. We would be counting the number of dead innocents, not in tens, not in hundreds, not in thousands, but in millions.

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  15. Other_Andy (2,623 comments) says:

    @Yoza

    Direct your Protests towards Hamas.
    Tell your buddies to:

    Change their Charter that calls for the destruction of Israel.
    Stop celebrating whenever a Jew gets killed.
    Not turn a blind eye when rockets and weapons are stored and fired in their house.
    Not to strap explosives on animals trying to blow up Jews.
    Not to turn a blind eye when rockets and weapons are stored in the mosque.
    Not to strap explosives on mentally handicapped trying to blow up Jews.
    Not to turn a blind eye when rockets and weapons are stored in UN schools.
    Not to use hospitals as command bunkers?
    Not to turn a blind eye when tunnels are dug under their houses with the aim to kill and kidnap Israeli citizens?
    Not to dress up their children as suicide bombers in parades.
    Not to use women and children as human shields.

    An above all, stop firing rockets into Israel.

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  16. Harriet (4,857 comments) says:

    Yoza#

    Israel disproportionately kills civilians:

    The proportionality rule of war has nothing to say about this. Disproportionate civilian deaths have been a fact of war since war began, largely through famine and disease, but murder and massacre too. Modern war has increased risks to civilians due to heavier firepower and increased urbanization. Civilian deaths have exceeded military deaths in many modern conflicts, including World War II, but this in itself is not a violation of the laws of war. The legal question is whether the deaths were caused intentionally or recklessly, not the proportion of civilian deaths to military losses. Thus by correct measure, the legal question in the Gaza conflict is which side has intentionally or recklessly caused the most civilian deaths. The answer to this question is Hamas 6; Israel none.

    Palestinians who voluntarily put themselves in harm’s way are not human shields:

    This is technically correct. But this is because the laws of war never anticipated the depraved conduct of the Palestinian Arabs of Gaza. Human shields as envisioned by the laws of war are civilians who are coerced by a military force to protect soldiers or a military target. German soldiers in World War I who forced Belgian civilians to march ahead of them committed a war crime.

    There have been instances of Hamas doing these things, but also apparent instances where civilians rushed to a target to protect it from Israeli fire. In the latter instance these civilians were not technically human shields. Instead, they became legitimate military targets, and also war criminals. The laws of war require combatants to wear uniforms or identifying badges or marks. A civilian who takes a military position without properly identifying himself is both a legitimate target and a violator of the laws of war. But he is not, technically, a human shield.

    Precision military strikes are required when engaging any target in an urban area:

    …… claimed (without attribution or detail) that Israel attacked a hospital because Hamas place a rocket launcher 100 yards away, and that this attack was illegal because Israel had to use a “precise” munition in such an instance. Of course we don’t know what munition was used, or even if the attack actually took place, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume Israel attacked a Hamas Grad rocket launcher emplaced 100 yards from a hospital with a standard unguided 155mm artillery round. There would be absolutely nothing illegal about such an attack under the laws of war. If the round did not precisely hit the Grad launcher, or shrapnel from the explosion hit the hospital, the legal liability is on Hamas.

    Precision munitions are relatively new to war, limited in military inventories and very expensive. There is no legal duty to use them exclusively in particular instances. As a practical matter though, it is indisputable that Israel disproportionately uses precision munitions, also munitions with reduced explosive force, and engages in a historically to civilians who may be in a targeted area.

    “….disproportionately uses precision munitions, also munitions with reduced explosive force….”

    Did ya get that Yoza? :cool:

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  17. hj (6,923 comments) says:

    A third of the permanent snow and ice on the Southern Alps has vanished in less than four decades, according to an analysis of aerial surveys.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11301095

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  18. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Griff (6,805 comments) says:
    July 31st, 2014 at 8:24 am

    “In history, a great volume is unrolled for our instruction, drawing the materials of future wisdom from the past errors and infirmities of mankind.”
    Edmund Burke

    “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
    George Santayana

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  19. Bob (496 comments) says:

    I have just been reading Chris Trotter’s Daily Blog. I remember a few years ago he was a staunch Labour supporter. Now he seems to be as critical of them as everyone else. He has written them off.

    On his blog page he gives the results of a political poll conducted by the meat workers union among it’s members. Of 3000 members polled Greens polled 27%, Labour 23% int. Mana 21% and National 19%. It is amazing a group of unionists would vote higher for the Greens than for Labour. That National is low is not surprising yet it is still a comparably high vote for the supposed enemy.

    For this election at least I think the political climate is topsy turvy.

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  20. hj (6,923 comments) says:

    The provocation of Israel doesn’t make sense. My sense is that most people (Yaza aside) see through it. I’m wondering if Hamas is trying to get justification for an all-out attack by Isis?

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  21. Keeping Stock (10,301 comments) says:

    @ Bob – lots of Waitakere Men work at the freezing works. In days gone by, a poll there would have shown 90% support for Labour, 5% for the Communist Party and the remaining 5% distributed among the rest. How far Labour has fallen.

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  22. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    Implacable Muslim Hatred of Jews

    “Sam Solomon and the late Elias Al-Maqdisi have produced in Al-Yahud an indictment of the implacable Islamic hatred towards Jews and Christians. The authors present the exegesis of primal hatred at the core of the Quranic Canon, but they do something more. They make the connection between the doctrinal hatred of Jews and denial of ancient Biblical claims to the Holy Land of Jews and Christians. They use this Islamic doctrinal hatred of Jews to illustrate why a lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians will never occur. The author’s message is that such agreements pursued by an Obama Administration and members of the so-called Quartet are a folly. For they have failed to understand this hate-filled doctrine.”

    http://www.newenglishreview.org/Jerry_Gordon/Implacable_Muslim_Hatred_of_Jews/

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  23. hj (6,923 comments) says:

    People who justify Hamas firing rockets when the result is predictable justify it by saying that it is part of the bigger picture. That was the rationale of Wayne Brittendon’s tag partner (Radio Left wing). If that is true they still need to justify the rationale for the latest rocket firing as a next move given the predictability of the response?

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  24. Pete George (23,480 comments) says:

    Kelvin Davis ‏@NgatiBird

    Of course I’m going out to win it, as I’ve told you a dozen times already. No one has approached me to do any shonky deal.

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  25. hj (6,923 comments) says:

    Aerial Survey disproves global warming
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11301095

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  26. Griff (7,520 comments) says:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/09/us-europe-power-prices-idUSBREA080S120140109
    (Reuters) – North Europe’s devastating storms sent wind turbines spinning and helped strengthen a new winter phenomenon for the region – negative electricity prices.

    Damaging for utilities losing money making electricity, delighting traders who cash in on price swings, they will not, however, mean cheap power for households.

    A raft of elements to subsidize the green energy boom make up half of most consumer power bills, shielding them from immediate wholesale market price swings.

    Over the Christmas holiday, which typically causes a drop in energy demand, wholesale electricity prices in Germany, the Nordic region, the Czech Republic and Slovakia turned negative on excessive renewable energy production and mild weather.

    Wind and rain bring out the best in renewable energy from turbines and hydro power, a major source of Nordic electricity. Calm weather hampers green energy output.

    Meteorologists say mild and wet weather could continue until March.

    When renewable energy output is higher than necessary, as in stormy weather, producers face negative market prices because electricity cannot be stored in high volumes.

    “I think negative prices will become more common with more wind farms being built. With more wind farms the chances of having supply outstripping demand are higher and this is the cause of the negative prices,” said one European power trader.

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  27. Keeping Stock (10,301 comments) says:

    @ Pete George – Kelvin Davis would be the last person (apart from you or I) to be told about any “shonky deal”. That’s the way the Labour Party rolls.

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  28. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    I am not a booster for ACT but I support truth in politics, and especially in journalism (though there is precious little in the MSM, circa 2014).

    Last evening ACT’s Jamie Whyte gave a speech in New Plymouth.
    I will acknowledge that the “griff” is expert in something (not sure what it might be), if someone can point to MSM coverage of his speech….. that is to say, his actual words, and not those of a dickhead media hack.

    This is an extract, (if you want the full version go to ACT/Jamie Whyte… :

    *** ” …
    Yesterday I published the speech that I gave to the ACT Party Waikato Conference on Saturday. It concerned a fundamental principle of Western civilisation.

    I said that all citizens should be equal before the law.
    I realise that in some countries, such as Afghanistan, that might be a controversial idea. Many people in Afghanistan reject the idea that women should have equal rights.
    And at earlier times in history the idea was rejected across the Western world. Up to the mid-20th century, laws that privileged men, whites and gentiles were common.
    But in New Zealand today, you might expect the principle of equality before the law to be uncontroversial. You might expect that a declaration of commitment to it would be greeted with quiet equanimity, perhaps even a yawn.
    Not so. My declaration has triggered vitriolic hostility.

    Maori Party co-leader Tariana Turia has accused me of “harking back to the same old racism that people before him thought would win them votes”.
    She says my comments are “straight racism”.
    “He thinks it’s attractive to New Zealanders, but New Zealanders actually know we have to work together,”
    “It’s old politics, it has no place in New Zealand.”

    Here is a woman who leads a party with an explicitly race-based agenda, who represents an electorate in which only people of one race are permitted to vote, and she accuses me of being racist. And what racist thing did I do? I suggested that the law should pay no heed to race!

    But it is not just political beneficiaries of New Zealand’s race-based laws who display contempt for the principle of equality.
    Since publishing my speech I have been exposed to hitherto unimagined absurdity from journalists – unimagined by me, at least. A reporter from Radio NZ asked me if I realised how “offensive” my commitment to equality before the law is.
    Offensive?

    Equality before the law is a fundamental principle of liberal democracy. Since when is it offensive to defend such principles?
    Other journalists have accused me of “playing the race card”.
    Suppose you meet two politicians. One says the law should not differentiate between people on the basis of race. The other one says it should. Which politician is playing the race card?

    This issue has been turned on its head in New Zealand. Those who want the state to be racially impartial are accused of racism by politicians who openly promote race-based favouritism. And journalists endorse this intellectual perversion.
    The most notable thing about the reactions to my speech is that no one has even tried to explain where my argument goes wrong. They ignore the content altogether – except when they are misrepresenting it – and instead bandy about accusations of racism, “dog whistling”, old-fashioned politics and all the rest.
    It is pathetic. ….. ”

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  29. Keeping Stock (10,301 comments) says:

    @ Fernglas – wouldn’t it be a hoot to see the Internet Party and the Mana Party in the dock as accessories to money laundering :D

    Interestingly, conspiracy to commit money laundering is one of the charges against Dotcom and his co-accused in the US, so he is alleged to have form…

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  30. EAD (1,001 comments) says:

    An excellent short summary published today by Robert Bonomo on the 7 pillars of the matrix that controls our lives:

    http://www.thecactusland.com/2014/07/the-seven-pillars-of-matrix.html

    This is one of the best summaries on the matrix I’ve ever read, in particular the sections on government & money

    On Government:
    “The history classes never point the finger at the governments themselves as the propagators and instigators of war, genocide, starvation, and corruption. Hollywood’s version of history, the one most people absorb, always portrays “good” governments against “bad” ones. We have yet to see a film where all the people on both sides simply disengage from their governments and ignore the calls to violence”

    On Money:
    “Money is their most brilliant accomplishment. Billions of people spend most of their waking lives either acquiring it or spending it without ever understanding what it actually is………They have convinced the slaves that money actually has some intrinsic value, since at some point in the past it actually did. Once they were finally able to disconnect money completely from anything other than their computers, they finally took complete control, locked the last gate, and electrified all the fences…………What they rarely ask themselves is why they must work to make money while banks can simply create it with a few keystrokes. If they printed out notes on their HP’s and loaned them with interest to their neighbors, they would wind up in a penitentiary, but not our friends on Wall Street — they do just that and wind up pulling the strings in the White House. The genius of the money scam is how obvious it is. When people are told that banks create money out of nothing and are paid interest for it, the good folks are left incredulous — “It can’t be that simple!” And therein lies the rub because no one wants to believe that they have been so easily enslaved”

    Shawn – you would do well to take 5 minutes out of your day and read this summary. Next time we have a debate online then perhaps you can come from an angle that has looked at the issues that plague us from another viewpoint.

    EAD

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  31. Brian Smaller (4,015 comments) says:

    In WWII my mother’s tiny home village in Italy was liberated by the Canadians. Over twenty villagers including members of my family were killed by Canadian shell fire. Did the people blame the Canadians? Not on your life. They blamed the Germans who had set up positions in and around the village. Same thing in Gaza. The fault of civilian casualties is primarily that of the Jihadists.

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  32. Other_Andy (2,623 comments) says:

    @Flipper

    These word have two mutually contradictory meanings.
    Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts.
    Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this.
    But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary.
    This demands a continuous alteration of the past, made possible by the system of thought which really embraces all the rest, and which is known in Newspeak as doublethink.

    Racism – Now includes ideologies and depends on the perpetrators ethnicity, religion and culture.
    Feminism – Free choice is now replaced by Conformity.
    Freedom of speech – Only applies when not critical of current (cause celebre) policies but does not apply to Whites, Males, Christians and heterosexuals.
    Right wing fascist – Anybody who is against intrusive state interference believes in free speech, personal freedom and is not a left wing extremist.
    Capitalist – Anybody who objects to being treated as a slave by the state which confiscates more than half of everything he earns so politicians can buy votes.
    Environmentalist – Anti-human, anti-western, anti-progress.

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  33. Griff (7,520 comments) says:

    Utilities wake up to threat of mass grid defection
    By Giles Parkinson on 23 June 2014
    http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/utilities-wake-threat-mass-grid-defection-29631

    As Australia’s major retailers and generators push back against the renewable energy target, and the carbon price is also unwound, some are also recognising that their business models will be quickly redundant unless they make some rapid changes.

    Utilities admit the new technologies, particularly solar and storage, and the resulting “democratisation of energy” is changing the game. Not only can households and business generate their own energy on-site, they will soon have the ability to defect from the grid en masse. And save money.

    “Two years ago “grid defection” had to be explained as a concept,” says UBS utilities analyst David Leitch. “Now every electricity business and player from generators, retailers, networks and regulators are adapting to a world where demand falls, customers can be competitors, network owners are generators and the only constant is change.”

    Leitch says that for large players, this means one of two decisions – whether to resist …. or work out how to profit from the change.

    At the conclusion of utilities conference held in Sydney by UBS last week, which heard from most of the major Australian and New Zealand listed utilities, Leitch suggested that Origin Energy appears to have decided to resist.

    Energy Australia, once the loudest opponent of change, appears to have evolved with new management, is now starting to evolve. As is, Leitch suggests, Victorian network operator SP Ausnet. (it could be argued that other networks are further down the track, but many of these are not listed).

    The new battlegrounds are the abolition of the carbon price and the proposal to remove or reduce the renewables energy target. But Leitch says victory in either will be short lived.

    “Solar and renewables are the good guys and we are pretty sure they will be the winners in the long run,” Leitch concludes.

    One of the highlights of the conference was a presentation by Adrian Merrick, the head of retail for Energy Australia, and the man charged with holding the business together in the face of the biggest change in technology in a more than a century.

    Merrick introduced this fascinating graph (below), “Industry at inflection point. Reinvention is key”. Nothing better illustrates the position the utilities find themselves in.

    energyaustralia gridThe key message is that usage is falling, solar parity has been reached, storage is coming and micro-grids are on their way – bypassing- or at least challenging – traditional network businesses.

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  34. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Other_Andy (2,301 comments) says:
    July 31st, 2014 at 8:59 am

    Well said.

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  35. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    Other_Andy (2,301 comments) says:

    July 31st, 2014 at 8:59 am

    @Flipper
    ***

    Like your definitions. They sum 2014 perfectly. :-)

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  36. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    So Whyte talks of ‘politicians who openly promote race-based favouritism’. It’s pretty clear which race has been most favoured in New Zealand.

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  37. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    Milkyone….

    Do tell !

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  38. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “It’s pretty clear which race has been most favoured in New Zealand.”

    Horse racing. :)

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  39. Viking2 (11,417 comments) says:

    Yep milky it is and its not the one you are promoting.

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  40. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Shawn – you would do well to take 5 minutes out of your day and read this summary. Next time we have a debate online then perhaps you can come from an angle that has looked at the issues that plague us from another viewpoint.”

    It was certainly entertaining. some of it hilariously so, but there was very little there I could take seriously.

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  41. Redbaiter (8,558 comments) says:

    The most notable thing about the reactions to my speech is that no one has even tried to explain where my argument goes wrong. They ignore the content altogether – except when they are misrepresenting it – and instead bandy about accusations of racism, “dog whistling”, old-fashioned politics and all the rest.

    FFS, this strategy has been used by the left for decades in respect to almost every issue they promote. They know if they actually stopped to argue the issue they’d lose hands down. Therefore the issue must not be argued, but the dissenter must be ridiculed and taunted.

    It always surprises me to learn that people who go into politics apparently need to go through this learning curve about the left when they should have known such things long before they ventured into the game.

    Whyte’s apparent naivety about the left is no asset.

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  42. Redbaiter (8,558 comments) says:

    Milky is just using separatism as a means to a communist totalitarian state. Its a common communist strategy. See South Africa for a previous example.

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  43. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Seeing we have had ‘separatism’ since 1867 we don’t seem to be making much progress towards that Reddy. Re South Africa, did you think apartheid was a path to communism.

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  44. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Redbaiter (7,634 comments) says:
    July 31st, 2014 at 9:39 am

    If it didn’t exist then it wouldn’t be able to be used for anything.

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  45. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    I turned on radio live this morning.. they had some MP who is retiring on.

    I thought “i wonder if i can pick which party hes from?”

    So i Listened.. after a minute or so he mentioned business opportunities and his farm.. Dime didnt guess Labour/Green/Mana/NZ First.. Dime guessed National. He was right.

    Now if the guy had said “id like to do some work in the community” eg get on some board or some made up job so i can stay on the public tit then i would have guess labour/green.

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  46. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    ““Israel’s right to exist as a state in security is uncontestable.” – Martin Luther King.

    “Peace for Israel means security, and we must stand with all our might to protect its right to exist, its territorial integrity. I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.” – Martin Luther King, on March 25, 1968, less than 2 weeks before his death.

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  47. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Martin Luther King also said this:

    Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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  48. Jack5 (5,055 comments) says:

    Anyone in Southland following Kiwiblog who can enlighten us on Ngai Tahu’s very late bid to “Maorify” Queenstown? The resort’s history is very much pioneer sheep grazing, gold and scheelite mining, and tourism.

    Ngai Tahu are publicising the story about a “famous Maori Princess” swimming Lake Wakatipu.
    There seem to have been a lot of swimming princesses up and down the country in pre-colonisation days. The famous swimmers of Maori legend seem to always have been women.

    These swimmers seem usually to have been princesses. Were there ever women Maori chiefs? Or male Maori princes?

    South of Kaikoura, the usually accepted southern limit of kumara cropping, Maori were very thin on the ground, or rather thin on the coast, for the interior was largely uninhabited, though trekked through on the way to obtain greenstone. Ngai Tahu would have been to and from Wakatipu for greenstone, but swimming that cold lake – without goggles?

    As a cynic I wonder whether Ngai Tahu’s latest legend promotion is related to its flourishing group of tourism companies in Queenstown, which have the advantage over competitors from the tribe’s group classification as a charity. This means, that like the Seventh Day Adventists’ Sanitarium food manufacturer, the tribe businesses are tax exempt.

    Next legends: Maori princesses who swum Cook Strait and the cold and often wild Foveaux Strait.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/business/10328615/Maori-tourism-interest

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  49. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Milky is just using separatism as a means to a communist totalitarian state.”

    Many Native American tribes have sovereignty over their tribal lands, including their own courts, police and schools. Are they then building a communist totalitarian state?

    Of course not.

    Redbaiter and Yowza may in theory be on opposite sides of the political spectrum, but they both sound equally insane. It’s the horseshoe effect again.

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  50. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    From the ever-helpful Wikipedia:
    According to oral tradition, the first woman to swim Cook Strait was Hine Poupou. She swam from Kapiti Island to D’urville Island with the help of a dolphin. Other Māori accounts tell of at least one swimmer who conquered the strait in 1831.

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  51. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Jack5 (4,592 comments) says:
    July 31st, 2014 at 9:46 am

    You have a problem with Maori folklore?

    Do you give your children easter eggs? Talk about Santa Claus, and the Easter Bunny? Has ‘Jack Frost’ ever visited in winter? Have you ever mentioned the man in the moon to a child? Do you think before you put an umbrella up inside, ever crossed your heart, or your fingers?

    All cultures have stories, folklore, and traditions which they value and pass down through the generations – whats with the isolating just one culture for criticism?

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  52. Redbaiter (8,558 comments) says:

    Milky, the big picture you can never see is a divided state. Communists can’t win against a united society. The society communists wish to eventually dominate must be divided into warring groups and weakened. They follow the same pattern all over the western world, including the USA where they use minority native Indian groups the same way as they use Maori here or Aborigine in Australia. Look at communist party press releases. Its obvious.

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  53. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    NBR Rich List:

    “John Key, the wealthiest Prime Minister in New Zealand history with $55 million stashed away from his money trading days..”

    He was worth 50 mill when he first came to parliament. who is running his trust? are they under instructions to hide some cash or to not make too much money!?

    “joined this year by another National MP, Ian McKelvie, who has accumulated $50 million from farming, giving him a ranking of 163rd equal.”

    never heard of this guy. been there 3 years. back bencher. i guess he will be wanting to move into cabinet soon? otherwise, whats the point?

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  54. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    By that logic Reddy, South Africa was under great threat from communism during the apartheid period but not so much now.

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  55. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    Jamie Whyte in respone to the squash player with the made up job

    “She brings up the fact that Maori are not materially privileged as if it’s a refutation of my position, but it’s part of my position.

    “It’s utterly bizarre – either she hasn’t read it or she can’t think straight. It’s very very strange. I’m dumbfounded. Sometimes there’s just nothing you can say.”

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  56. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Milky, the big picture you can never see is a divided state.”

    The USA has 50 different states, each with it’s own laws, government and territory. So, was the founding and creation of the US republic a communist plot Red?

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  57. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    Another 3 Israeli servicemen killed yesterday. 10 the day before, 10 the day before that.. just protecting the country they were born in.

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  58. KiwiPauL (1 comment) says:

    @Brian Smaller

    Brian, i cant agree more, my father who was in Italy in WW2 always said the locals despite the costs to the local community always greated them as friends. BTW did you live you’re childhood in Mt Maunganui.

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  59. fernglas (147 comments) says:

    KeepingStock@8:52.
    Money laundering can be committed where property acquired by crime is dealt with recklessly, in other words where it is recognised that there is a risk that the property is the proceeds of crime but the recipient goes ahead and deals with it anyway. The current interpretation of the legislation means there must be an intent to conceal the money and I don’t know whether plastering IM slogans around the country and turning Air New Zealand cabin lighting pink quite qualifies. That does not excuse the morality of using the money when there is a risk that it is the proceeds of crime or at the very least, that it is money which is the subject of a restraining order.
    That said, the litigation is complex, and there may well be good reason why it was left to Hollywood to point out to the High Court the apparent breaches of the restraining orders.

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  60. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

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    dime (9,446 comments) says:

    July 31st, 2014 at 9:54 am

    NBR Rich List

    ****

    J Key put his assets into a “blind trust” on entering Parliament, or shortly thereafter, but before he became LoO.

    McKelvie is MP for Rangatikei (since 2011) , and the “rich list” ranking demonstrates that it equates with bullshit.

    McKelvie’s “wealth” is in farmland, owned by the family trust. And as he pointed out earlier this year – “no one has made an offer for thje land at the “valuation” quoted”.

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  61. Other_Andy (2,623 comments) says:

    mikenmild says:

    “According to oral tradition, the first woman to swim Cook Strait was Hine Poupou.”

    Oral tradition……..

    “…She crossed and landed at Toka-haere, or Toka-kotuku, on the north side of Cook Strait. Here she rested and left the seaweed, which turned into sharks. Then, taking dry rimu-kauare, the great bull-kelp, she fastened it round her as a buoy, and continued her heroic swim. She swam on and on; she crossed the great sea of Raukawa (Cook Strait), and at last she reached Rangitoto and she rested on a rock close to her home. She took the hollow sea-kelp that had buoyed her up, and with incantations threw it into the sea, and it became taniwha (sea-monsters) and hapuku (groper). She landed at night and went to her father’s house, where she was gladly greeted.”

    http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-Pom02Lege-t1-body-d3-d16.html

    Sea weed that turns into sharks and taniwhas.
    Sounds like a historic and truthful account to me.

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  62. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Another 3 Israeli servicemen killed yesterday. 10 the day before, 10 the day before that.. just protecting the country they were born in.”

    And how many Palestinian children did those aggressor “servicemen” murder before they got their just deserts dime?

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  63. Redbaiter (8,558 comments) says:

    Milky- Communist Party USA treatise on Native American strategies-

    https://archive.org/stream/ResolutionOnThePathToNativeAmericanLiberationAdoptedAtThe22nd/NAIL#page/n0/mode/2up

    Communists are all about destroying social cohesion as a means to obtain political power. You have to be blind or stupid not to see it.

    From the CPUSA manual-

    “… for revolution it is essential,… that the ruling classes be in a state of governmental crisis which draws even the most backward masses into politics, weakens the government and makes it possible for the revolutionaries to overthrow it rapidly.”

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  64. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “And how many children did those aggressor “servicemen” murder before they got their just deserts dime?”

    In defeating Nazi Germany the allies had to bomb Germany, invade Continental Europe, and fight a bloody war all the way to Berlin. In doing all these things they would have, sadly and tragically, killed children.

    Were the Allies then murderers who had no just cause?

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  65. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    Red ya coward, man up and answer the question.

    The USA has 50 different states, each with it’s own laws, government and territory. So, was the founding and creation of the US republic a communist plot Red?

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  66. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    dime (9,447 comments) says:

    July 31st, 2014 at 9:56 am

    Jamie Whyte in respone to the squash player with the made up job
    ***

    There was a time when Devoy belted the shit out of a little black ball, and when she was not smashing it, she used that poor, unfortunate, black ball to bamboozle her opponents.

    Now that she has a sinecure with a 3-5 year appointment, she still plays with black, turning others words “whyte”.

    David Rutherford, the Chief HR Commissioner, will now give either Devoy or the idiot who penned her comments, a good black and blue kicking. Yeah right!

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  67. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “In defeating Nazi Germany the allies had to bomb Germany, invade Continental Europe, and fight a bloody war all the way to Berlin. In doing all these things they would have, sadly and tragically, killed children.

    Were the Allies then murderers who had no just cause?”

    Three Israeli teenage settlers were murdered on the West Bank by a criminal gang so what does Israel do? It kills HUNDREDS of innocent children in a land unconnected to the West Bank. Why didn’t Churchill bomb Dublin in his war against Hitler? Churchill didn’t bomb Dublin because Ireland was not responsible for Hitler’s crimes.

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  68. Redbaiter (8,558 comments) says:

    I don’t engage with morons and I don’t succumb to their interrogations especially when-

    1) The questions are falsely premised, or

    2) The interrogator has the comprehensions skills of whitebait, or

    3) They’re such morons I don’t give a damn what they think anyway.

    In your case all three apply, so wisen up you wittering poorly educated uninteresting drone.

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  69. James Stephenson (2,155 comments) says:

    So, was the founding and creation of the US republic a communist plot Red?

    That’s a really stupid deliberate misinterpretation of Red’s argument.

    The US was founded as a tightly constitutionally-constrained federal system with clear powers and responsibilites remaining devolved at a state level. The motivation of attempts to unpick that and re-cast the constitution as a “living document” to be re-interpreted almost at will, is another thing entirely.

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  70. Yoza (1,818 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,469 comments) says:
    July 31st, 2014 at 9:42 am

    “Israel’s right to exist as a state in security is uncontestable.” – Martin Luther King.

    There are a lot of hoax quotes attributed to Martin Luther King which suggest he supported Israel, as this essay points out, do you have any way of demonstrating the quote you cited has any veracity?

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  71. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Islam’s War Against the Jews:

    From ShawnLH’s link:

    “In each of the five daily ritual prayers, Muslims around the world pray the opening Sura of the Qur’an ending in these two verses, “Guide us to the straight path, the path of those whom You have favored with guidance, not [the path] of those against whom there is wrath, nor of those who are astray.” [Sura 1:6-7]… Muslim scholars are in unanimous agreement that “those against whom there is wrath” are the Jews . . . While “those who are astray” are identified as being the Christians.”

    This “scholarly opinion” contradicts the Quran, which does not support such a broad generalization:

    Lo! Those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabians – whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right – surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
    Qur’an 2:62

    The Quran does criticise the Jews, and the article quotes contemporary Muslim scholar Sheikh al Qaradawi:

    “…they are full of venom of malice, deception, breakers of covenants, and treaties, and all these have been mentioned by the Qur’an about them, clarifying that the Jews of yesterday are the Jews of today, they hold the same characteristics and temperaments.”

    If you want to see the venom of malice, try this:

    Attacking press & medical in Gaza (warning, graphic):
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152173922791746&set=vb.296085691745&type=2&theater

    Calling for extermination: (I’ve munged the https on the link so that the video doesn’t show.)
    xhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYu6VCrYdGk&t=0m55s

    Deception: Lying about the Lavon Affair, the attack of the USS Liberty, and the Sabra and Shatilla Massacres.

    Breakers of covenants:

    Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith YHWH:
    Jeremiah 31:32

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  72. Redbaiter (8,558 comments) says:

    “That’s a really stupid deliberate misinterpretation of Red’s argument.”

    Yes, it betrays stupidity for certain, but I’m not sure its deliberate.

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  73. hj (6,923 comments) says:

    mikenmild (10,755 comments) says:
    July 31st, 2014 at 9:06 am

    So Whyte talks of ‘politicians who openly promote race-based favouritism’. It’s pretty clear which race has been most favoured in New Zealand.
    ….
    yes you are at a big disadvantage if you see yourself as a king in waiting. Better to realise no one is going to give you anything. It is people like mikenmild who keep the impossible dream alive.
    Reaslist realise there will never be a new NZ where tangatawhenua appear grinning as we stroll onto the beach or live in tribal areas as they did prior to 1840 or collect land rents as a landed gentry ( a new serfdom)?
    At work we deal with a Maori enterprise. My friend waves and notes “he’s the only one who waves to me. The others are all sour”. Meanwhile my friend has his own problems with a business that has failed, but these young Maori are still in 1840 – bless tariana and peter.

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  74. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    On 13 October 2000, the official Palestinian Authority television station broadcast live a Friday sermon in the Zayed bin Sultan Aal Nahyan mosque in Gaza. Below are excerpts from the sermon, as transcribed by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), .

    The speaker is Dr. Ahmad Abu Halabiya, Member of the Palestinian Authority-appointed “Fatwa Council” and former acting Rector of the Islamic University in Gaza.

    “On killing Jews and Americans:

    “O brother believers, the criminals, the terrorists – are the Jews, who have butchered our children, orphaned them, widowed our women and desecrated our holy places and sacred sites. They are the terrorists. They are the ones who must be butchered and killed, as Allah the Almighty said: ‘Fight them: Allah will torture them at your hands, and will humiliate them and will help you to overcome them, and will relieve the minds of the believers…”

    “Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them. Wherever you are, kill those Jews and those Americans who are like them – and those who stand by them – they are all in one trench, against the Arabs and the Muslims because they established Israel here, in the beating heart of the Arab world, in Palestine. They created it to be the outpost of their civilization and the vanguard of their army, and to be the sword of the West and the crusaders, hanging over the necks of the monotheists, the Muslims in these lands. They wanted the Jews to be their spearhead…”

    On making peace with Israel:

    “Even if an agreement of Gaza is signed – we shall not forget Haifa, and Acre, and the Galilee, and Jaffa, and the Triangle and the Negev, and the rest of our cities and villages. It is only a matter of time. The weak will not remain forever weak, and the strong will not remain forever strong… If we are weak today… and we are not able to regain our rights, then at least we have to pass on the banner – waving high – to our children and grandchildren…”

    “…We will not give up a single grain of soil of Palestine, from Haifa, and Jaffa, and Acre, and Mulabbas [Petah Tikva] and Salamah, and Majdal [Ashkelon], and all the land, and Gaza, and the West Bank…”

    “…Let us put our trust in Allah, close ranks, and unite our words, and the slogan of us all should be, ‘Jihad! Jihad! For the sake of Palestine, and for the sake of Jerusalem and Al-Aqsa!'”

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  75. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    “And how many Palestinian children did those aggressor “servicemen” murder before they got their just deserts dime?”

    9 out of 10 on monday were killed on israeli land. the terrorists used the tunnel network to stage a surprise attack.

    usually future terrorists are killed by bombs as the coward Palestinians use them as human shields. so id say no children were harmed by these servicemen.

    also, lol @ just desserts. such heart from the cop hating lefty.

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  76. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘future terrorists’
    Seems to becoming the accepted Kiwiblog code word for Palestinian children.

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  77. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “That’s a really stupid deliberate misinterpretation of Red’s argument.”

    Bullshit. Red made one of his usual brainless and simplistic generalizations, in this case about separatism, and I nailed him for the obvious contradiction.

    Red just does not have the intellectual nous to make an argument that is not filled with holes that you can drive a fleet of trucks through.

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  78. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    Hamas in Their Own Words.

    Ismail Haniyeh, head of the Hamas administration in the Gaza Strip commenting on the killing of Osama Bin Laden, May 2, 2011

    “We regard this as a continuation of the American policy based on oppression and the shedding of Muslim and Arab blood…We condemn the assassination and the killing of an Arab holy warrior. We ask God to offer him mercy with the true believers and the martyrs.”

    Sermon delivered by ‘Atallah Abu Al-Subh, former Hamas minister of culture, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV, April 8, 2011, translation by MEMRI

    “Whoever is killed by a Jew receives the reward of two martyrs, because the very thing that the Jews did to the prophets was done to him.

    “The Jews are the most despicable and contemptible nation to crawl upon the face of the Earth, because they have displayed hostility to Allah.

    “Allah will kill the Jews in the hell of the world to come, just like they killed the believers in the hell of this world.

    “The Jews kill anyone who believes in Allah. They do not want to see any peace whatsoever on Earth.”

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  79. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “usually future terrorists are killed by bombs as the coward Palestinians use them as human shields. so id say no children were harmed by these servicemen.”

    Your ignorant opinions aren’t worth a dime, dime. Best you crawl back under your rock.

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  80. Redbaiter (8,558 comments) says:

    ACT Leader Dr Jamie Whyte calls Dame Susan Devoy to resign
    Thursday, 31 July 2014, 10:10 am
    Press Release: ACT New Zealand

    ACT Leader Dr Jamie Whyte calls Dame Susan Devoy to resign

    Dame Susan Devoy has responded to my speech calling for racial equality by publicly condemning it as “grotesque and inflammatory”.

    That would be nothing more than a sign of ignorance if she were still a professional squash player.

    But she is no longer a squash professional. She is the Commissioner for Race Relations. Her role is specified in legislation.

    Nowhere does the legislation say that, unlike other senior state bureaucrats, the Commissioner of Race Relations’ role involves engaging in political campaigns to support particular parties, such as the Mana-Internet Party and the Maori Party.

    It is astounding that the Commissioner of Race Relations should condemn me for promoting legal equality between the races.

    If Ms Devoy believes that a person’s legal rights should depend on the race of her parents, and if she believes that she should use her state-funded position to promote the electoral prospects of race-based political parties, then she is unfit to hold her position as the Commissioner of Race Relations.

    She should resign today.

    ends

    More courage to Mr. Whyte.

    Taking the fight to the disgusting devious cowardly status quo.

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  81. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    “…Let us put our trust in Allah, close ranks, and unite our words, and the slogan of us all should be, ‘Jihad! Jihad! For the sake of Palestine, and for the sake of Jerusalem and Al-Aqsa!’”

    Yes, the barbarians should put their faith in Allah and the paedophile prohet.
    In return, the Jewish State should blow them to smithereens, back to the Dark Ages where they rightly belong.

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  82. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    And in the meantime, humanity, preoccupied by an age-old religious based war, the downing of an aircraft, a civil war, another Russian based skirmish, terrorist threats and melting ice caps – seemingly ignores a festering virus that has the ability to reduce human kind by 90%. Another false alarm, ebola the ‘swine flu’ of over-exaggeration, or the beginning of an end to capitalism, democracy and life as we know it?

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  83. SGA (998 comments) says:

    Judith at 10:54 am

    Another false alarm, ebola the ‘swine flu’ of over-exaggeration, or the beginning of an end to capitalism, democracy and life as we know it?

    Huh? I thought gay marriage was supposed to be doing that?

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  84. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    “Your ignorant opinions aren’t worth a dime, dime. Best you crawl back under your rock.”

    try not to get arrested today.

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  85. Steinienick (2 comments) says:

    hj (6,367 comments) says:

    A third of the permanent snow and ice on the Southern Alps has vanished ….
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11301095

    I note that this article is by Sallinger, not somebody I trust, but a quick sum reveals.
    The 9000 km³ claimed for the world melt (in the same declination proportional to NZ) then 1/3 has already melted. This 9000 km³ divided by the area of sea (510 000 000 km² x .7= 357 000 000 km²)=0.025m (25mm) Therefore to melt the balance would only raise the sea level by 50mm. Hence if his statements are correct 50mm rise in sea level is nothing or the NZ condition is not proportional to the rest of the world.

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  86. Jack5 (5,055 comments) says:

    Judith in a 9.52 post asked of me:

    You have a problem with Maori folklore?

    No I don’t. Do you have a problem distinguishing history from folklore, Judith?

    The Maori princess swimming Lake Wakatipu wasn’t reported as folklore. It was implied it was history.

    Milkenmild’s 9.52 post highlights a couple of other Maori women swimmers. Where were the Maori male swimmers? Why were there no epic female Maori swims after 1840?

    If folklore-myth is what Maori oral history comprises, what basis for many of the Waitangi Treaty claims?

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  87. Griff (7,520 comments) says:

    Jack5
    Because the men were not trying to escape being raped killed then eaten as much

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  88. Pete George (23,480 comments) says:

    Max Coyle in the news again.

    The formerly anonymous person behind satire site ColinCraig.co.nz has revealed themselves.

    InternetNZ ‘s Domain Name Commission site now lists Max Coyle of Hamilton as the person who registered the URL.

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/person-behind-rogue-colin-craig-website-reveals-themselves

    Note that he is ex-Green.

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  89. backster (2,152 comments) says:

    ” The first woman to swim Cook Strait was Hine Poupou.”………Thus ends NCEA history lesson for today schools out.

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  90. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ jackinabox

    I want to apologise for not supporting some of what you said last night regarding the Crewe case. I was not claiming that what you were saying was wrong regarding our police force. I know only too well how the entire Thomas family was, and still is being treated by the police. As a young person I remember being sat in a pub with two of Arthur’s brothers, having a great time, laughing, when the police entered – none of us were breaking the law or doing anything wrong, but out group was singled out, solely because Lloydo and Dezzie were among us. It was during the seventies, just after Arthur’s pardon. The treatment we all received, and especially those boys received would have resulted in a IPCA investigation today, but back then it was just part and parcel of believing in Arthur’s innocence.

    We all watched Ivy Thomas lose her infectious smile, get ill and die an early death due to the effects of police incompetency and out right dishonesty. Yes I do know how the police can be. Arthur’s wrongful conviction and the effect on his family was what got me interested in criminal justice in the first place. I wanted to be a police woman so I could get in there and change things, but nature saw fit to make me two inches too short to meet the requirements back then. When I did get to work in the criminal justice system I realised that not all police were the same. That the ‘rot’ existed at the top, and although filtered through to some at the lower levels, there were in fact some decent among them – although ever getting any of them to admit that Arthur was innocent, was hard going.

    You said your family has been targeted, and I believe you. Only a fool would say that sort of thing doesn’t happen. It does. I am devastated with the report yesterday. So far I have found 171 points of contention, and I’m not finished. That report should have been undertaken by an independent authority – people tell us to move on, to forget it, but they are ignorant to the fact that until this sort of corruption is revealed and addressed, the police and society will never have total faith in each other.

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  91. Ashley Schaeffer (475 comments) says:

    If the UN were serious about doing something worthwhile in the Middle East instead of bitching at Israel for defending itself, it would put a UN peace-keeping force in Gaza and actively work to disarm the population of their bombs and missiles. We’ll then see how much sympathy the world has for the Gazans when they start targeting and killing UN peace-keepers as Infidel-Occupier-Crusaders or something-or-other.

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  92. SGA (998 comments) says:

    Jack5 at 11:01 am

    No I don’t. Do you have a problem distinguishing history from folklore, Judith?

    Well, that’s not always as easy as it sounds. They have a nasty habit of getting all tangled up, especially when oral traditions are concerned.
    For example –
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood#A_historical_Robin_Hood
    So, there might be some degree of history in folklore (and vice versa).

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  93. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Jack5 (4,593 comments) says:
    July 31st, 2014 at 11:01 am

    Actually Jack, you are wrong. Not all folklore is a myth, and a large amount of it has been found to have basis in historical fact.

    More and more archaeological findings are proving that many of what was believed to be purely myth, has in fact been based on actual happenings, although become exaggerated over time.

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  94. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    ‘Fight them: Allah will torture them at your hands”

    This is apparently from a mistranslation of surah 9:14 of the Qur’an, where the Arabic word for punishment has been incorrectly translated as torture. Also, violence as a form of punishment is described in Proverbs as a penalty for treachery:

    A man shall eat good by the fruit of [his] mouth: but the soul of the treacherous (בגדים) [shall eat] violence.
    Proverbs 13:2

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  95. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    Susan Devoy has made a complete fool of herself (again).
    Shame on her for pandering to the racists and promoters of the gravy train.

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  96. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “it would put a UN peace-keeping force in Gaza and actively work to disarm the population of their bombs and missiles.”

    Why is Israel allowed to have missiles, bombs and weapons of mass destruction but the Gazans are not?

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  97. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    No need to apologise Judith but thanks anyway.

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  98. Other_Andy (2,623 comments) says:

    Ashley Schaeffer says:

    “If the UN were serious about doing something worthwhile in the Middle East….”

    Ask yourself the following questions…

    Why are the ‘Palestinian Refugees’ the only refugees whose children are also classed as refugees?
    Why out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, is theirs the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples’ lands?
    Why does the UN spends 50% more on ‘Palestinian Refugees’ than on any other refugees?
    Why are ‘Palestinian Refugees’ the only refugees that have their own UN organisation, The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East – UNRWA?
    Also note that there are 23,000 UNRWA employees (Most of them Palestinian) compared to 7,000 for the rest of the world.
    UNRWA’s biennium regular budget for 2010 and 2011 is US$1.23 billion, since 1999 10 billion dollars in direct aid has gone to UNRWA.

    And….

    Of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
    Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
    The U.N was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.
    The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
    The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

    Find out what the largest voting block is in the UN controlling all this…..
    Then you know why the UN wants to keep the status quo and isn’t interested in a fair solution in the Middle East.

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  99. hj (6,923 comments) says:

    Jackinabox:
    Why is Israel allowed to have missiles, bombs and weapons of mass destruction but the Gazans are not?

    because it would be instant death to the Israelis?
    but who (on the left) would care? As the fat fella’s sign at the Queen Street Camel Parade said “Fuck Israel”?
    I can imagine a situation like the Dutch allowing Serbs to escort Muslims of to be executed if a UN took over.

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  100. Don the Kiwi (1,708 comments) says:

    jackinabox.

    “Why is Israel allowed to have missiles, bombs and weapons of mass destruction but the Gazans are not”

    Because, stupid, its the Gazans are ALWAYS the ones who attack and start hostilities.

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  101. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “because it would be instant death to the Israelis?”

    Now I get it Gazans are incapable of suffering “instant death.”

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  102. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Because, stupid, its the Gazans are ALWAYS the ones who attack and start hostilities.”

    Were the three Israeli settler teenagers murdered by Gazans while playing soccer on a beach in Israel?

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  103. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yes, the barbarians should put their faith in Allah and the paedophile prohet.
    In return, the Jewish State should blow them to smithereens, back to the Dark Ages where they rightly belong.

    And Manolo gets today’s record for the highest slander count in a single post.

    The term “barbarian” was uses by the civil (Roman) state to distinguish been their humans and outsiders, ie homo humanus vs homo barbarus.
    Of course the Roman state was just as barbaric as any of the practices of other nations, practicing infanticide and crucifixion.

    I’ve previously explained to Manolo that the historical evidence contradicts the idea that Muhammad was a paedophile, but obviously slander is a core part of his game.

    It’s not a Jewish state, it is a secular Zionist one. The honourable religious Jews rejected the Zionist state at the time of its formation.

    “And just at that time, when the Jews were still languishing in the DP camps, the Satan succeeded and the state was founded in Eretz Yisroel.”
    http://www.truetorahjews.org/berachmoshe

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  104. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    jackinthebox, Israel is a nation state that to survive has had to invest a big portion of its GDP in military expenditure like most others.It has an arsenal of nuclear weapons that has never and will never use unless its very survival is at stake.
    Hamas has not only Rockets but also mortars, AK47s and a considerable supply of other kinds of weaponry copiously supplied by both Iran and other neighbuoring Arabs states.
    Not sure of the financial terms but would be pretty nominal given the fact that its for the advancement of Jihaad and the ultimate destruction of Israel.

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  105. Fletch (6,296 comments) says:

    Out of their own mouths –

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  106. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Iran and other neighbuoring Arabs states.”

    Dumbarse, Iranians are not Arabs nor are they neighbours.

    “other kinds of weaponry”

    Like what?

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  107. Ashley Schaeffer (475 comments) says:

    You can’t possibly be that thick jackoffinabox, so you must be trolling.

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  108. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Because, stupid, its the Gazans are ALWAYS the ones who attack and start hostilities.

    Not necessarily. The latest violence was triggered by a kidnapping & murders that were blamed on Hamas, but an Israeli police source contradicts this:

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

    “The comments from the Israeli spokesperson in question indicate that the group thought to be responsible, a “lone cell,” may not have been under direct orders from Hamas’s leadership, but was loosely affiliated with the group.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-isis-islamic-state-not-hamas-claimed-responsibility-for-murder-of-three-israeli-boys/5390861

    A new Palestinian jihadist group pledging allegiance to the Islamic State (formerly known as ISIL) [or "ISIS"] has claimed responsibility for the killing of three Israeli teenagers last month in the West Bank, as well as other recent deadly attacks against Israeli soldiers and civilians.

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  109. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    This should warm Al Gore and Griff’s hearts: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/30/un-puts-new-momentum-behind-its-radical-green-agenda-for-climate-change/

    The United Nations is putting new momentum behind the radical green effort to reduce global carbon emissions and drastically reshape the world’s economy — a campaign that is wobbling badly due to international defections and the huge cost of cutting back economic growth in the name of controlling “climate change.”

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  110. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    https://www.facebook.com/GeorgeGallowayMP/app_212104595551052

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  111. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    If the UN were serious about doing something worthwhile in the Middle East instead of bitching at Israel for defending itself, it would put a UN peace-keeping force in Gaza and actively work to disarm the population of their bombs and missiles.

    The UN’s primary area of interest here is human rights. For human rights to be relevant in Gaza it requires that a civil state exists there – humans are similar to citizens in status. Since there is no such state in Palestine the UN has no jurisdiction there.

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  112. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    backster (2,081 comments) says:

    July 31st, 2014 at 11:06 am

    ” The first woman to swim Cook Strait was Hine Poupou.”………
    *****

    This might be true.

    Reed’s Maori myths and Legends lists it as a possibility.

    But, more likely, it is a load of cobblers, built on an event (of sorts) which has grown legs, and swum, so to speak.

    Kapiti to D’Urville ??

    The lady knew bugger all about CS tides (not her fault). Swimming speed would have been .3NM p/h max, insufficient to counter any tidal flow. But hang on, she floated with the aid of bull kelp – an artificial aid. A possible floatation aid it might be, but it would also create significant drag.

    CS tides run at anything up to 8 knots (in places), 9+ in springs, and most simply reverse course.

    By giving a little bit of thought to the matter, and applying just a smidgeon of logic and knowledge, it can be deduced that the mythical event would have taken, if it took place, took well in excess of 72 hours, even if some progress (one way or the other) was being made.

    Hypothermia would,have washed a corpse ashore.

    It is a wonderful fairy tale. Nothing more.

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  113. lolitasbrother (669 comments) says:

    I feel quite sad reading through all this anger and angst within New Zealand.
    For fifteen years I thought ACT was shagged , and wrote so.
    I also wrote my view that Mana is racist, and it is.
    I offer good tidings and strength to Jamie Whyte for his eloquence and courage.

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  114. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    jackinthebox,

    George Golloway is not a very balanced fella,

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/controversial-mp-george-galloway-claims-1329188

    He implodes here ,

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/is-george-galloway-the-dumbest-politician-in-the

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  115. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Ashley Schaeffer (409 comments) says:

    July 31st, 2014 at 11:37 am

    You can’t possibly be that thick jackoffinabox, so you must be trolling.”

    Well I’d rather be an alleged troll than a…git!

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  116. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    jackinabox,

    Iran supplied Hamas with Fajr-5 missile technology

    Revolutionary Guards commander says his forces helped militant group in Gaza build missiles capable of reaching Tel Aviv

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/21/iran-supplied-hamas-missile-technology

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  117. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    And he destroys a US Senate Committee here,

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  118. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Iran supplied Hamas with Fajr-5 missile technology

    Revolutionary Guards commander says his forces helped militant group in Gaza build missiles capable of reaching Tel Aviv”

    It’s called self-defence stephieboy.

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  119. big bruv (13,729 comments) says:

    jack

    You posted that video the other day. As soon as you did you were proved to be an idiot by many here who posted proof that Galloway is a liar.

    Why do you keep insisting on pushing this massive lie?

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  120. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Prove to me that Galloway is a liar big bruv.

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  121. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    “More courage to Mr. Whyte.

    Taking the fight to the disgusting devious cowardly status quo.”

    yeah im stoked hes not backing down. i hope he gets into parliament.

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  122. wreck1080 (3,885 comments) says:

    how much does devoy get paid?

    I reckon she made her comments to justify the paycheck.

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  123. Viking2 (11,417 comments) says:

    Whyte lobs resignation call at Devoy over race comments

    oy over race
    Email Adam
    @AdDeville

    Jamie Whyte says Dame Susan Devoy’s criticism of his “racial equality” comments is interference in election year politics. He’s called for her to resign. Photo / NZ Herald Jamie Whyte says Dame Susan Devoy’s criticism of his “racial equality” comments is interference in election year politics. He’s called for her to resign. Photo / NZ Herald

    Act Leader Jamie Whyte says Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy should resign for her condemnation of his “call for racial equality” by putting an end to special legal recognition of Maori, saying she is interfering in the election year political process.

    Dame Susan who last year refused to comment on Winston Peters’ claims that Auckland was becoming a “Supercity of sin” due to a growing Asian influence, yesterday labelled Dr Whyte’s comments about Maori as “grotesque and inflammatory”.

    Dr Whyte said her response to his “call for racial equality” would be “nothing more than a sign of ignorance if she were still a professional squash player”.

    “But she is no longer a squash professional. She is the Commissioner for Race Relations. Her role is specified in legislation.”

    Jamie Whyte says Dame Susan Devoy’s criticism of his “racial equality” comments is interference in election year politics. He’s called for her to resign. Photo / NZ Herald Jamie Whyte says Dame Susan Devoy’s criticism of his “racial equality” comments is interference in election year politics. He’s called for her to resign. Photo / NZ Herald

    Act Leader Jamie Whyte says Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy should resign for her condemnation of his “call for racial equality” by putting an end to special legal recognition of Maori, saying she is interfering in the election year political process.

    Dame Susan who last year refused to comment on Winston Peters’ claims that Auckland was becoming a “Supercity of sin” due to a growing Asian influence, yesterday labelled Dr Whyte’s comments about Maori as “grotesque and inflammatory”.

    Dr Whyte said her response to his “call for racial equality” would be “nothing more than a sign of ignorance if she were still a professional squash player”.

    “But she is no longer a squash professional. She is the Commissioner for Race Relations. Her role is specified in legislation.”

    Dr Whyte’s speech last weekend took aim at the legislation providing for the Maori electoral roll and seats in Parliament, three of which are currently held by the Maori Party and one by the Mana Party.

    “Nowhere does the legislation say that, unlike other senior state bureaucrats, the Commissioner of Race Relations’ role involves engaging in political campaigns to support particular parties, such as the Mana-Internet Party and the Maori Party,” Dr Whyte said.

    “It is astounding that the Commissioner of Race Relations should condemn me for promoting legal equality between the races.

    “If Ms Devoy believes that a person’s legal rights should depend on the race of her parents, and if she believes that she should use her state-funded position to promote the electoral prospects of race-based political parties, then she is unfit to hold her position as the Commissioner of Race Relations.

    “She should resign today.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11301977

    Keep it up Jamie. Time has come to slay these stupid sacred cows.

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  124. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    Of course not! http://thehill.com/video/in-the-news/213089-rep-steve-king-obama-not-raised-with-an-american-experience

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  125. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Jackinabox,

    As I’ve stated George Golloway is not a very balanced person and this confirms that,

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2006/05/furious_george.html

    An ideological neo stalinist apologist and intellectual thug. I wonder if he or you have paused to thing that he at least has the freedom to rant and tant in front of the US Senate Committee, an opportunity that would be certainly denied him ,in front of Stalin or his politburo or e.g Iran’s Supreme Council or Assad and his Council of Ministers .

    So firing unguided rockets and missiles into civilian areas is some how self defence .?

    PS anyone who apologizes for Joseph Stalin has to be either a deluded or in Golloway’s case a serial liar.!

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  126. Elaycee (4,378 comments) says:

    No surprises the moron behind the Colin Craig ‘spoof’ website is Gween Party reject candidate Max Coyle – the same Max Coyle who was dumped as a Gween party candidate in Hamilton because he told porkies to a Waikato newspaper. So no surprises it’s him – none at all.

    But imagine having that line on your CV… ‘Dumped as a Gween Party candidate for telling porkies…..’

    Dumped by the Gweens! Bwahahaaaaaaaaa – that’s gold. :D

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/60409431/exgreen-claims-colincraigconz-spoof-site.html

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  127. Griff (7,520 comments) says:

    :lol:
    It was brilliant elaycee.

    The site makes him look like some sort of retarded wingnut.

    http://colincraig.co.nz/

    Sorry he is a retarded wingnut.

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  128. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Meanwhile, down in Jesusland:
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/07/30/alabama_coal_power_prayer_utility_regulation_president_asks_citizens_to.html

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  129. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    Max Coyle is a narcissist. Imagine how bad it cut him when he got dumped. Makes my day everytime i think about it.

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  130. Other_Andy (2,623 comments) says:

    Scientists say that the Hole Found in Siberian Permafrost might be connected to Global Warming ™
    (It’s the Global Warming ™ again!, no surprise there.)

    Could it be linked to the global warming? We have to continue our research to answer this question.
    Two previous summers – years 2012 and 2013 were relatively hot for Yamal, perhaps this has somehow influenced the formation of the crater.
    But we have to do our tests and research first and then say it more definitively.”

    http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/scientists-begin-to-demystify-hole-found-in-siberian-permafrost/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1

    Better pay your carbon tax or the Earth might swallow you whole!

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  131. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Manolo (13,380 comments) says:
    July 31st, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    Obviously the medication I suggested for your deluded nonsense ,this time from Rep Steve King, is not working.
    Please try an alternative.!

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  132. Jack5 (5,055 comments) says:

    Judith posted at 11.12:

    Not all folklore is a myth, and a large amount of it has been found to have basis in historical fact.

    Your reckon there really was a giant at the top of the beanstalk, and that once upon a time wolves could talk, as in Little Red Ring Hood?

    The problem with oral history is that when it is indeed based on actual events, the events are more than likely to become distorted over the generations of story telling. For example, the arrow-proofing of Achilles except for his heel, which was where he was held for the dunking.

    In NZ, have we not based many Treaty settlements on oral history?

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  133. Other_Andy (2,623 comments) says:

    Socialism works….
    In bankrupting countries and destroying peoples’ lives.

    Argentina heads into default as debt talks fail thanks to Cristina and her quasi socialist-fascist Partido Justicialista.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11302034

    Time to ramp up the Malvinas rhetoric Cristina?

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  134. Ashley Schaeffer (475 comments) says:

    @Other_Andy
    Siberia is a cold hole by all accounts. I’m actually happy for them.
    If any place could do with some warming, it’s Siberia.

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  135. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    stephieboy (2,191 comments) says:

    July 31st, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    Jackinabox,

    “As I’ve stated George Golloway is not a very balanced person and this confirms that,

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2006/05/furious_george.html

    That proves nothing stephieboy.

    “So firing unguided rockets and missiles into civilian areas is some how self defence .?”

    That’s easy, you use what you can lay your hands on to repel an aggressor. Throwing stones at tanks doesn’t work but a rocket in the heart of Tel Aviv will make the bastards sit up. Its a bit like a massive truck bomb at Canary Wharf; to coax them into changing their murderous policies you have to strike them where it really hurts.

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  136. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    George Golloway in praise of North Korea,

    I wonder if jackinabox and George would like to either live there or take some much sorely needed R & R.?

    “Proves nothing ” jackinabox. ? The above certainly does . Like you apparently ,George is most partial to authoritarian regimes .

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  137. Griff (7,520 comments) says:

    Other_Andy

    Its a hole from an wingnut whose brain exploded due to a build up in stupidity.

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  138. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Throwing stones at tanks doesn’t work but a rocket in the heart of Tel Aviv will make the bastards sit up.

    As a strategy rockets don’t serve Hamas’ goal because the Zionists have much greater military might. All it really does is give them a reason to strike back.

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  139. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    “Why didn’t Churchill bomb Dublin in his war against Hitler? Churchill didn’t bomb Dublin because Ireland was not responsible for Hitler’s crimes.”

    The Irish Free State was technically a dominion. Churchill was desperate to get ireland in and made a strong plea after Pearl harbour .DeValera hated the British so refused to come in,gutless prick.

    That didn’t stop tens of thousands of irishmen and women joining the British military.Thousands even desrted the Irish army to join the Allied cause.Only to be blacklisted by the Irish govt thereafter.

    The Germans though did bomb Dublin.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/why-the-nazis-bombed-dublin-1075966.html

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  140. Andrei (2,570 comments) says:

    I love these people – I’m fairly sure they Rusyans from the far West of Ukraine but this is happening elsewhere to

    They don’t want their sons to be sent to the East to kill other mothers sons and to be killed themselves so American thieves like Hunter Biden, the Vice Presidents son, can steal their pipelines and natural resources.

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  141. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Christopher Hitchens Exposes George Galloway’s Lies

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUFAuE6dnZM

    Iranian Student Exposes George Galloway as a Hypocrite and a Liar,

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  142. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Andrei, the source of your You Tube item?

    The US I believe has no intention of stealing Ukraine gas supplies. But RT or V OF R will naturally put their own slant on it which you in turn will naturally parrot.!

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  143. G152 (305 comments) says:

    George Galloway a hypocrite and liar….
    Who’s divulging secrets?

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  144. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “As I’ve stated George Golloway is not a very balanced person and this confirms that”

    Well being a Nazi doesn’t help.

    The video of him praising the achievements of North Korea is hilarious. How does a person get that bloody stupid?

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  145. Andrei (2,570 comments) says:

    Stephieboy do you really think this is all about democracy and self determination for the people of Ukraine?

    If you do I’ve got a bridge for sale

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  146. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “If you do I’ve got a bridge for sale”

    It’s one his comrades stole off the Ukrainians. :)

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  147. Lance (2,635 comments) says:

    Methinks the anti-Israel trolls are out of control.

    I suggest stop feeding them as we are way past any kind of logic here. Like Hama’s itself.

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  148. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Andrei,
    Yes I believe it is all about democracy and self dermination for the the Ukraine and all others who may not wish to tow the Kremlin line.

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  149. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Proves nothing ” jackinabox. ? The above certainly does . Like you apparently ,George is most partial to authoritarian regimes .”

    You said “lies” stephieboy. All I heard there was opinion.

    Christopher Hitchens, Sigh!

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  150. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “New antisemitism is the concept that a new form of antisemitism has developed in the late 20th and early 21st centuries, emanating simultaneously from the far-left, radical Islam, and the far-right, and tending to manifest itself as opposition to Zionism and the State of Israel. The concept generally posits that much of what purports to be criticism of Israel by various individuals and world bodies, is, in fact, tantamount to demonization, and that, together with an alleged international resurgence of attacks on Jews and Jewish symbols, and an increased acceptance of antisemitic beliefs in public discourse, such demonization represents an evolution in the appearance of antisemitic beliefs”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_antisemitism

    The radicalism of fools: the rise of the new anti-Semitism

    “No self-respecting person on the left should endorse anti-establishment positions that are in reality just cloaked anti-Semitism.”

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/01/radicalism-fools-rise-new-anti-semitism

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  151. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    “The video of him praising the achievements of North Korea is hilarious. How does a person get that bloody stupid?”

    for a start hes never been sent to one of their work camps..

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  152. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    A Bolt on the press in Gaza.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/embedded_with_islamists_so_be_wary_of_their_reports/

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  153. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The radicalism of fools: the rise of the new anti-Semitism

    Is the following anti-semtism from a foolish radical?

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
    Mat 23:27

    Is it foolish to recognise that criticism of some Jews is supported by the facts?

    Contemporary Muslim scholar Sheikh al Qaradawi: “…they are full of venom of malice, deception, breakers of covenants, and treaties, and all these have been mentioned by the Qur’an about them, clarifying that the Jews of yesterday are the Jews of today, they hold the same characteristics and temperaments.”

    If you want to see the venom of malice, try this:

    Attacking press & medical in Gaza (warning, graphic):
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152173922791746&set=vb.296085691745&type=2&theater

    Calling for extermination: (I’ve munged the https on the link so that the video doesn’t show.)
    xhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYu6VCrYdGk&t=0m55s

    Deception: Lying about the Lavon Affair, the attack of the USS Liberty, and the Sabra and Shatilla Massacres.

    Breakers of covenants:

    Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith YHWH:
    Jeremiah 31:32

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  154. Other_Andy (2,623 comments) says:

    kowtow says at 2:40 pm

    Thanks for that link.
    Not that it makes any difference to the biased NZ press and Hamas supporters.

    Also saw a (unconfirmed) story about Gaza residents being shot by Hamas militia for blaming them for the destruction of their houses.
    You can bet that those victims (if true) were counted as civilians being killed by Israel.
    This is how they got rid of political opponents in previous clashes with Israel, they tortured and shot them and then blamed Israel.

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  155. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Is the following anti-semtism from a foolish radical?

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
    Mat 23:27″

    No because it’s a religious dispute between Jews and has no relation whatsoever to the vile filth being promoted by you and other Jew haters.

    “Is it foolish to recognise that criticism of some Jews is supported by the facts?”

    What facts? You never give any facts, only anti-Jewish lies from conspiracy web sites run by people who think alien lizard people run the world.

    Facts and your lying, hate-filled and bigoted propaganda have no relation to each other.

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  156. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Is the following anti-semtism from a foolish radical?

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
    Mat 23:27″

    No because it’s a religious dispute between Jews and has no relation whatsoever to the vile filth being promoted by you and other Jew haters.

    “vile filth”: you are starting to sound like Manolo, Shawn. So quick to resort to slander when your argument is weak.

    The condemnation of the scribes and Pharisees is related to the accusation of them being covenant breakers by the link of prophecy – both the Messiah and Jeremiah were recognized as prophets.

    What facts? You never give any facts, only anti-Jewish lies from conspiracy web sites run by people who think alien lizard people run the world.

    So the book of Jeremiah contains lies from conspiracy web sites, does it?
    Once again you prove yourself to be a liar, Shawn Lee Herles.

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  157. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    Who left the Muslim asylum doors open?

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  158. Pete George (23,480 comments) says:

    National have dropped significantly and Labour have recovered in the latest Roy Morgan poll, but Greens are also down reducing the right to left swing.

    Volatility and uncertainty are apparent.

    – National 46% (down 5%)
    – Labour Party 30% (up 6.5%)
    – Greens 12% (down 3)
    – NZ First 5% (down 1%)
    – Internet-Mana Party 2.5% (up 1%)
    – Maori Party 1.5% (up 0.5%)
    – ACT NZ (0.5%, unchanged)
    – United Future 0.5% (unchanged)
    – Conservative Party of NZ 1% (unchanged)
    – Independent/ Others 1% (up 1%)

    The string of embarrassments for National seem to have taken their toll. They should be getting a bit nervous.

    Internet-Mana are climbing on the back of sustained publicity and promotions.

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  159. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Still waiting for that surge from the Conservatives…

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  160. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    longknives

    The history of ‘liberation’ or “resistance” movements has long been one of kill ,silence or discredit the moderates and other dissenting voices from your community first,then strike out at your openly stated enemy.That way you can claim to be the only or “legitimate ” voice of the people. When in fact they speak only for themselves.

    The IRA did it,tamil tigers,no doubt PLo and hamas.many others too.They call them collaborators so murdering them is OK!

    The vitriol the so called republicans in northern Ireland held for the Peace movement had to be seen to be believed.

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  161. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “The condemnation of the scribes and Pharisees is related to the accusation of them being covenant breakers by the link of prophecy”

    Wow that’s ignorant rubbish. The condemnation of the Pharisees was not because they had broken the covenant, that is nowhere said in the Gospels, but because they had added overly restrictive legal traditions to the Law.

    “So the book of Jeremiah contains lies from conspiracy web sites, does it?”

    What the book of Jeremiah says and what you say are not even remotely related.

    Moreover you have no right to quote the Bible. You are neither a Jew nor a Christian, and you are on record dismissing those parts of Scripture written by Saint Paul, so you have no Biblical leg to stand on.

    You just use/abuse the Bible to try and prop up your lies and hatred towards the Jews, a sin for which you are in grave danger of hellfire.

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  162. Yoza (1,818 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,480 comments) says:
    July 31st, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    “New antisemitism is the concept that a new form of antisemitism has developed in the late 20th and early 21st centuries, emanating simultaneously from the far-left, radical Islam, and the far-right, and tending to manifest itself as opposition to Zionism and the State of Israel. …

    Heh, talk about your whacky paranoid conspiracy theories. Anything to provide cover for Israeli atrocities, eh Shawn.

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  163. graham (2,333 comments) says:

    mikenmild at 3:17 pm

    “Still waiting for that surge from the Conservatives…”

    Well they’re still polling ahead of two long-established parties with (supposedly) proven track records – ACT and United Future.

    What does it say about ACT and United Future when people prefer an unproven party that has never held office over them? If I was in either of those parties I’d be slightly worried around now.

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  164. SGA (998 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 2:33 pm

    “New antisemitism is the concept that a new form of antisemitism has developed in the late 20th and early 21st centuries, … snip …”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_antisemitism

    I was curious, followed your link – next paragraph
    Proponents of the concept argue that anti-Zionism, anti-Americanism, anti-globalization, third worldism, and demonization of Israel, or double standards applied to its conduct, may be linked to antisemitism, or constitute disguised antisemitism. Critics of the concept argue that it conflates anti-Zionism with antisemitism, defines legitimate criticism of Israel too narrowly and demonization too broadly, trivializes the meaning of antisemitism, and exploits antisemitism in order to silence debate

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  165. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “The condemnation of the scribes and Pharisees is related to the accusation of them being covenant breakers by the link of prophecy”

    Wow that’s ignorant rubbish.

    No, actually it is fact, and your straw man doesn’t change that.

    The condemnation of the Pharisees was not because they had broken the covenant,

    That’s right, and I didn’t imply that it was the case.

    that is nowhere said in the Gospels, but because they had added overly restrictive legal traditions to the Law.

    No, the verse I quoted focused on their hypocrisy:

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
    Mat 23:27

    hypocrisy hɪˈpɒkrɪsi/

    noun: hypocrisy; plural noun: hypocrisies

    the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

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  166. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Yoza,

    these are what are termed real atrocities,

    http://www.pinterest.com/brandomatic/wwii-nazi-atrocities/

    and the Belorussian SSR 1943 (tip of the ice berg stuff )

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.co.nz/2011/05/atrocities-committed-by-german-fascists.html

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  167. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    Pete George (22,859 comments) says:

    July 31st, 2014 at 3:13 pm

    National have dropped significantly and Labour have recovered in
    ****

    PG,

    I thort you were a generally sensible soul, but your reading of the “whore’s drawers” Morgan poll shows that you are not.

    This is not me running a defensive line.

    I have consistently derided Morgan as being bullshit. It is up and down (in/out) like a whore’s drawers, and serves only to pad out the collective “poll of polls”.

    H A N D !

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  168. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Heh, talk about your whacky paranoid conspiracy theories. Anything to provide cover for Israeli atrocities, eh Shawn.”

    Denial to provide cover for your terrorist friends atrocities, eh Yowza.

    By the way comrade, the second article on the new Anti-Semitism is from a mainstream Left wing source, and provides a great deal of evidence to make it’s case.

    Put your Jew hatred aside for one second and give it a read. Or are you too scared you might see something in yourself you don’t like?

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  169. RightNow (6,988 comments) says:

    “Anything to provide cover for Israeli atrocities, eh Shawn.”

    But let’s not talk about Hamas murdering their own women and children and pretending the Israelis did it, eh Yoza.

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  170. Pete George (23,480 comments) says:

    flipper – all the polls are up and down at the moment so I don’t see why you’re singling out Roy Morgan.

    You sound as bad as the Standardistas when a poll moves against them (theyre cheering today).

    This is just one pull amongst a lot of political volatility and uncertainty, but National should be a wee bit anxious. But it’s hardly surprising, National have had a crappy couple of weeks.

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  171. Scott Chris (6,066 comments) says:

    Am I the only one who feels a bit sorry for Colin Craig? Seems his supporters are deserting him like rats from a sinking ship.

    Basically I think his heart is in the right place, but he really doesn’t know who he is or who he stands for.

    Oh well.

    ps – don’t fuck with John Key.

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  172. Scott Chris (6,066 comments) says:

    But let’s not talk about Hamas murdering their own women and children and pretending the Israelis did it, eh Yoza.

    Rightnow, the things I most like about American Jews is that they are funny and they are wise. (apologies for the affirmative racism to those who are over-sensitive)

    I’d like to see the Nation of Israel adopt these qualities.

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  173. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    This piece by a smart arse prick named Davison, is about the nadir of “gotcha” politics. Read the Herald.. but the headline is:

    ” Groser orders protected fish for dinner

    Trade Minister Tim Groser. Photo / Ben Fraser

    A plate of protected Antarctic toothfish and controversial dish foie gras were on the table at a lavish taxpayer-funded dinner hosted by Trade Minister Tim ….. ”

    Goes on to say it was in a Singapore restaurant, last January….

    J H C on a Bike. How low has the Herald stooped?

    ]Davison is just an arsehole.

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  174. cricko (303 comments) says:

    Why you should always check your childrens homework.

    http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fgallery%2FFcmESRx&tbnid=X5lV3EB7b5kkpM:&docid=o1ondjzq0j1r-M&h=596&w=597

    (someone will be amused by this)

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  175. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    Leftists become incandescent when reminded of the socialist roots of Nazism.

    “On 16 June 1941, as Hitler readied his forces for Operation Barbarossa, Josef Goebbels looked forward to the new order that the Nazis would impose on a conquered Russia. There would be no come-back, he wrote, for capitalists nor priests nor Tsars. Rather, in the place of debased, Jewish Bolshevism, the Wehrmacht would deliver “der echte Sozialismus”: real socialism.

    Goebbels never doubted that he was a socialist. He understood Nazism to be a better and more plausible form of socialism than that propagated by Lenin. Instead of spreading itself across different nations, it would operate within the unit of the Volk.

    So total is the cultural victory of the modern Left that the merely to recount this fact is jarring. But few at the time would have found it especially contentious. As George Watson put it in The Lost Literature of Socialism:

    ‘It is now clear beyond all reasonable doubt that Hitler and his associates believed they were socialists, and that others, including democratic socialists, thought so too.’

    The clue is in the name. Subsequent generations of Leftists have tried to explain away the awkward nomenclature of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party as either a cynical PR stunt or an embarrassing coincidence. In fact, the name meant what it said.

    Hitler told Hermann Rauschning, a Prussian who briefly worked for the Nazis before rejecting them and fleeing the country, that he had admired much of the thinking of the revolutionaries he had known as a young man; but he felt that they had been talkers, not doers. “I have put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun,” he boasted, adding that “the whole of National Socialism” was “based on Marx”.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100260720/whenever-you-mention-fascisms-socialist-roots-left-wingers-become-incandescent-why/

    Left-wing anti-Semitism is anything but a new phenomenon.

    ““How, as a socialist, can you not be an anti-Semite?” Adolf Hitler asked his party members in 1920. No one thought it an odd question. Anti-Semitism was at that time widely understood to be part of the broader revolutionary movement against markets, property and capital.

    The man who coined the term “socialism,” the nineteenth-century French revolutionary, Pierre Leroux, had told his comrades: “When we speak of the Jews, we mean the Jewish spirit – the spirit of profit, of lucre, of gain, of speculation; in a word, the banker’s spirit.”

    The man who popularised the term “anti-Semitism” had taken a similar line. Wilhelm Marr, a radical nineteenth-century German Leftist, may not have been the first person to use the word, but he certainly – and approvingly – brought it to a wide audience: “Anti-Semitism is a Socialist movement,” he pronounced, “only nobler and purer in form than Social Democracy”.”

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100281615/left-wing-anti-semitism-is-anything-but-a-new-phenomenon/

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  176. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    PG…

    “All the polls are up and down”… U say

    Name the others that fluctuate like whores drawers, please.

    And tell me that the trend is up and down. I have looked, but cannot find it….

    I know U love PD and UF. But, PG… U go too far at times. Best U stay in Otago,

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  177. Yoza (1,818 comments) says:

    Quick, Shawn, go tell John Key he is flirting with antiSemitism:

    Asked about the apparent targeting of schools, Mr Key said: “If they are, it’s very worrying. I don’t have all the facts ? but I just know well over 1300 people have lost their lives. It’s a blot on the world as we currently know it and it’s got to end.”

    He said Israel’s argument that people could get out of harm’s way if they were given notice was “a bit flawed in its logic” because most of the affected people were refugees who had nowhere to go.

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  178. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    Opps maybe NZs going down hill, milks DROPPING, forestry sacking their workers .we are FUCKED the parties over, the FBIs visiting and want john key to wimp and roll over over Kim,D,C. Fuck NZ is nothing in the world,but remember john key can always bail out and go home to the good old USA. keys natural home,

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  179. Viking2 (11,417 comments) says:

    Argentina at brink of default as $539m payout blocked

    Talks aimed at averting Argentina’s second default in 13 years ended with bitter recriminations Wednesday as the South American country said it could not accept a deal with U.S. hedge fund creditors it dismisses as “vultures.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11302034

    so the Argies about to go,under.

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  180. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    Yowza.

    Yesterday I had a back and forth debate with Mikenmild about Israel and Gaza and not once did I accuse him of being anti-Semitic.

    Why?

    Because while I think his criticisms were factually wrong, they were not extreme, and I know Mike well enough to know that he is not anti-Semitic.

    I reserve that accusation for those who’s criticisms are so extreme, emotive and unbalanced, that bigotry is clearly being expressed, and for those like Ugly and Reid who spout conspiracy theories that fit classic anti-Semitic patterns.

    So sorry comrade, that excuse you’re trying to hide behind won’t work.

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  181. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    How’s the investigation into the shelling of the kids playing soccer on a Gaza beach going Israel?

    “Israel says it will investigate the shelling of a school housing displaced civilians in Gaza, and apologise if Israeli fire was responsible.

    A government spokesman told the BBC: “We have a policy – we don’t target civilians”.

    The US and UN condemned the attack, which killed at least 16. Israel said its military responded to mortar rounds launched from near the school.

    More than 100 Palestinians were killed on Wednesday, Gaza officials said. BBC”

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  182. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    Argentina is fucked big time.

    Decades of Peronism (the half-baked doctrine concocted and preached by the corrupt general Juan Domingo Peron) have bankrupted the country, both morally and economically.

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  183. Ross12 (1,413 comments) says:

    flipper — ” A plate of protected Antarctic toothfish ”

    You are right, this is BS. Toothfish are fished under quota. You could say that they are therefore protected but so is all fish in NZ is caught under quota, held by the fisher ( that is commercial fishing ).

    It is a pity there is not an easy way to hold these journalists to account.

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  184. Jack5 (5,055 comments) says:

    Just heard Foamin Mary ripping into the Israeli Ambassador on Radio NZ’s Labour Programme Checkpoint.

    Hell’s teeth!

    Jackinabox (5.08 and higher) – are you Mary Wilson??????? Is “Jackinbaox” a pseudonym for Mary Wilson?

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  185. itstricky (1,801 comments) says:

    Just posting this:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11302089

    So that David Garrett (and others) can bitch and moan about how the law is always biased toward the employee, and how there aren’t enough protections for employers….ad nauseum

    (Look David, I used Latin, I must have been schooled at that famous non-profit Eton)

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  186. Ross12 (1,413 comments) says:

    Viking2 & Manolo

    According to Zerohedge , Argentina has defaulted

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-30/argentina-defaults

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  187. Gulag1917 (884 comments) says:

    Australia on red alert for killer ebola: Health authorities concerned that the virus could reach our shores
    http://m.perthnow.com.au/news/australia-on-red-alert-for-killer-ebola-health-authorities-concerned-that-the-virus-could-reach-our-shores/story-fnii5s3z-1227007960212?nk=54254479c25a98e835c5d578f5e80ba1

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  188. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    http://www.democracynow.org/2014/7/30/henry_siegman_leading_voice_of_us

    Given his background, what American Jewish leader Henry Siegman has to say about Israel’s founding in 1948 through the current assault on Gaza may surprise you. From 1978 to 1994, Siegman served as executive director of the American Jewish Congress, long described as one of the nation’s “big three” Jewish organizations along with the American Jewish Committee and the Anti-Defamation League. Born in Germany three years before the Nazis came to power in 1933, Siegman’s family eventually moved to the United States. His father was a leader of the European Zionist movement that pushed for the creation of a Jewish state. In New York, Siegman studied the religion and was ordained as an Orthodox rabbi by Yeshiva Torah Vodaas, later becoming head of the Synagogue Council of America. After his time at the American Jewish Congress, Siegman became a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He now serves as president of the U.S./Middle East Project. In the first of our two-part interview, Siegman discusses the assault on Gaza, the myths surrounding Israel’s founding in 1948, and his own background as a German-Jewish refugee who fled Nazi occupation to later become a leading American Jewish voice and now vocal critic of Israel’s policies in the Occupied Territories.

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  189. Gulag1917 (884 comments) says:

    Not only Argentina there are several other nations in a similar situation and if it has a domino affect could hurt NZ seriously.

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  190. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Just heard Foamin Mary ripping into the Israeli Ambassador on Radio NZ’s Labour Programme Checkpoint.

    Hell’s teeth!

    Jackinabox (5.08 and higher) – are you Mary Wilson??????? Is “Jackinbaox” a pseudonym for Mary Wilson?

    Whaaa! I’ve been unmasked by a former detective. Whaaa!

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  191. Brian Smaller (4,015 comments) says:

    Brian, i cant agree more, my father who was in Italy in WW2 always said the locals despite the costs to the local community always greated them as friends. BTW did you live you’re childhood in Mt Maunganui.

    KiwiPaul – yep. That isn’t Cloppy is it?

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  192. Rowan (2,117 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10327013/Crewe-murders-Police-admit-cartridge-planted

    This is not an unexpected outcome, tends to follow the general line of police investigations, deny deny deny, avoid the real questions and admit as little as you can get away with. There exoneration of the killer Demler is about as convincing as Bryan Bruces ‘investigator’ episode or Ian Wisharts conspiracy theory that it was the cops or the various nutjobs on here, Muggins, Stupid Boy, Big Blouse, Longknives etc who keep insisting that ‘Robin Bain is innocent’. Its fine to not believe that Demler did it but to exonerate him the way this investigation has without any direct evidence excluding him is laughable. Where is the evidence that he is “innocent”?

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  193. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    So sorry comrade, that excuse you’re trying to hide behind won’t work.

    Don’t worry Yoza. Shawn’s only got a hammer, so everything he analyses looks like a nail.

    In this case, he can’t possibly conceive anyone whose against Iswael can possibly not be anti-semitic, even tho he pretends, in his judgement (which who cares about), mm isn’t. But then, when you’re dealing with a man who does his thinking with a hammer and supports state-sponsored murder, what else can anyone expect?

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  194. EAD (1,001 comments) says:

    Whilst “democracy” is the best system of “Government” outside of a constitutional republic (although a benign ruler like Singapore can work but there is always a risk), Argentina also represents the ultimate conundrum of social democracies – how do you prevent populist politicians borrowing money to pay for promises that benefit them now and the price gets paid later?

    There is every incentive to give the masses bread and circuses now on your rule as you only pay 3% interest for 100% of the benefit. This works well up to a point, when the system then explodes because the maths no longer work – Argentina being the latest example.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-30/how-argentina-became-bad-debtor

    The World economy can handle Argentina, but what about when it is France defaulting, the UK defaulting or whisper it, the USA defaulting?

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  195. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    Gulag1917 (661 comments) says:

    July 31st, 2014 at 5:49 pm

    Australia on red alert for killer ebola: Health authorities concerned that the virus could reach our shores
    +++_+_

    Excrement…..

    For a non technical explanation of what it (Ebola) is, can or cannot do go, read Tom Clancy’s “Executive Orders”. The TV explanations are crap. It (Ebola) involves the total destruction of the human GI system. )

    Without manipulation of the virus, there is NO possibility of it migrating to NZ.

    bye bye

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  196. SPC (5,595 comments) says:

    EAD, er Argentine defaulted because they made the mistake of linking their currency to the American dollar.

    Not every problem is caused by “the same nail/populist spending”

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  197. Griff (7,520 comments) says:

    Damn flippy.
    Here is me hoping it would infect south auckland and save us billions
    I do consider based on some of the crap you spout that you have some sort of similar infection.
    Doesn’t seem to be lethal unfortunately because you have been dribbling shit ever since I joined KB.

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  198. EAD (1,001 comments) says:

    @ SPC – their default in 2001 (not the 2014 variety) was when they linked their currency to the USD. In summary, the Argentine rulers linked their currency on a 1:1 ration to the USD and they could only print up Pesos on the same ratio as USD entered the country. Realising this could limit the money that could be spent bribing the electorates with their own (an future generations) money, they started borrowing in USD on foreign markets so they could create more Pesos to spend up domestically. They borrowed so much, that investors realised it couldn’t possibly be paid back and they pulled the plug. So yes, it was in USD, but the root cause was unchanged – politicians spending money they haven’t got on things they can’t afford.

    This quote sums up the realities of “democracy”

    “A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-29/our-totalitarian-future-part-1

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  199. cricko (303 comments) says:

    I hope Kim felt his scrote tighten up when he read this.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Cyber-crime-tops-FBI-Finlayson-agenda/tabid/1607/articleID/354940/Default.aspx

    Not long now Kim.

    Wonder if the mattress in the Metropolitan Correctional Centre NYC will be thick enough for your liking.
    Because you will be there for an effing long time before your case even comes to trial.
    The tucker will take a bit of getting used to as well.

    Good job too.

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  200. EAD (1,001 comments) says:

    @ SPC – never underestimate the power of complicity. Once a citizen receives a direct payment from the state, the state has purchased their complicity, for no matter how much that citizen may complain privately about the state, he or she will never risk the payment/benefit by resisting the state in a politically meaningful way. That is why John Key once said when he was an opposition MP “Working for Families is Communism by Stealth”

    That is why politics moves in a constant leftwards direction until it all collapses and is why our main “right wing” party is now just a Socialist pig with lipstick painted on.

    This collusion of the state and the central bank is truly a thing of authoritarian beauty: the Reserve Bank creates money out of thin air and buys government bonds with the new money. The state can thus borrow unlimited sums at low rates of interest, and continue to send individual payments out to buy the passivity and complicity of formerly independent New Zealanders as we “learn to love our servitude” as Orwell so brilliantly described it.

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  201. J Bloggs (237 comments) says:

    Flipper: forget Tom Clancy – read “The Hot Zone” by Richard Preston, which goes into considerable detail about the Reston Ebola outbreak and the nature of the disease. And contrary to your apparent belief, there is absolutely no reason in the world why Ebola couldn’t make to NZ, with global air transport and given that Ebola most commonly has an 8-10 day incubation period.

    (Unless you are travelling via Hawaii, in which case you’d go from being asymptomatic to dying of the disease and you’d still be waiting for the flight home to depart)

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  202. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    J Bloggs (160 comments) says:

    July 31st, 2014 at 7:04 pm

    Flipper: forget Tom Clancy – read “The Hot Zone”
    ****

    It is the nature if the beast M Bloggs.

    It loves warm, damp and hot, and has a limited life in the open.

    My sources tell me that Executive Orders and Rainbow Six are pretty accurate, and more realistic (in terms of risk/effect) than others. But that is not the point.

    Ebola is a fragile, short life beast. But while it is alive, lord help anyone it infects. Medicine cannot.

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  203. Don the Kiwi (1,708 comments) says:

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/3705506247001/hamas-founders-son-speaks-out-against-terrorist-group/#sp=show-clips

    For all the Hamas/Palestinian lovers out ther, check out the son of the founder of Hamas.

    But I’m sure you’ll find a reason to deny – deny – deny…………

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  204. SPC (5,595 comments) says:

    EAD, the 2014 default is related to the issues of the 2001 default.

    The problem with the link to the US dollar was the impact on their economy of changes in value of the American dollar.

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  205. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    For all the Hamas/Palestinian lovers out ther, check out the son of the founder of Hamas.

    Tell us Don, are the people who decry say, the shelling of the UN school for which the Israelis were given the GPS co-ordinates about 15 times according to the news – the details aren’t important it’s the principle, but are people who condemn stuff like that: supporting Hamas, or condemning state-sponsored murder?

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  206. SPC (5,595 comments) says:

    Israel does not target civilian targets

    The IDF has permission to fire back.

    So when Hamas fires from nearby a school, the IDF can fire back.

    There is no constraint on them firing back if the fire came from nearby a school.

    Israel does not target civilian targets.

    Civilians in a school die.

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  207. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    It’s only when you see a mosquito landing on your testicles that you realise that there is always a way to solve problems without using violence.

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  208. Yoza (1,818 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,484 comments) says:
    July 31st, 2014 at 4:40 pm

    Leftists become incandescent when reminded of the socialist roots of Nazism.

    “On 16 June 1941, as Hitler readied his forces for Operation Barbarossa, Josef Goebbels looked forward to the new order that the Nazis would impose on a conquered Russia. There would be no come-back, he wrote, for capitalists nor priests nor Tsars. Rather, in the place of debased, Jewish Bolshevism, the Wehrmacht would deliver “der echte Sozialismus”: real socialism.

    My god, you post some utter shit. The Nazis used socialist rhetoric for the same reasons the founders of Israel pretended they were socialists:

    The well-known historian and political scientist Zeev Sternhell here advances a radically new interpretation of the founding of modern Israel. The founders claimed that they intended to create both a landed state for the Jewish people and a socialist society. However, according to Sternhell, socialism served the leaders of the influential labor movement more as a rhetorical resource for the legitimation of the national project of establishing a Jewish state than as a blueprint for a just society. In this thought-provoking book, Sternhell demonstrates how socialist principles were consistently subverted in practice by the nationalist goals to which socialist Zionism was committed.

    Sternhell explains how the avowedly socialist leaders of the dominant labor party, Mapai, especially David Ben Gurion and Berl Katznelson, never really believed in the prospects of realizing the “dream” of a new society, even though many of their working-class supporters were self-identified socialists. The founders of the state understood, from the very beginning, that not only socialism but also other universalistic ideologies like liberalism, were incompatible with cultural, historical, and territorial nationalism. Because nationalism took precedence over universal values, argues Sternhell, Israel has not evolved a constitution or a Bill of Rights, has not moved to separate state and religion, has failed to develop a liberal concept of citizenship, and, until the Oslo accords of 1993, did not recognize the rights of the Palestinians to independence.

    You may as well point out what a disaster democracy has turned into by using The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea as an example.

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  209. Yoza (1,818 comments) says:

    EAD (622 comments) says:
    July 31st, 2014 at 7:03 pm

    @ SPC – never underestimate the power of complicity. Once a citizen receives a direct payment from the state, the state has purchased their complicity, for no matter how much that citizen may complain privately about the state, he or she will never risk the payment/benefit by resisting the state in a politically meaningful way. That is why John Key once said when he was an opposition MP “Working for Families is Communism by Stealth”

    That is why politics moves in a constant leftwards direction until it all collapses and is why our main “right wing” party is now just a Socialist pig with lipstick painted on.

    This collusion of the state and the central bank is truly a thing of authoritarian beauty: the Reserve Bank creates money out of thin air and buys government bonds with the new money. The state can thus borrow unlimited sums at low rates of interest, and continue to send individual payments out to buy the passivity and complicity of formerly independent New Zealanders as we “learn to love our servitude” as Orwell so brilliantly described it.

    You do know George Orwell was a socialist, don’t you, EAD?

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  210. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    It’s only when you see a mosquito landing on your testicles that you realise that there is always a way to solve problems without using violence.

    Yes but if this is the case in Iswael then how come we weren’t hearing constantly about the never-ending barrage leading up to this state-sponsored murder nasska?

    Or is that because the media is so very biased that they didn’t tell us about it even tho it was happening all the time non-stop hour after hour, day after day, week after week, etc, until the state-sponsored murder finally got underway but only after endless and I mean endless provocation and then, to disguise their crapulence, they – gasp – for once in their lives – broadcast carefully both sides of the argument, lest the audience be led into the rabid anti-semitism which apparently lurks just beneath the surface in all we Western people?

    Is that what’s really happening?

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  211. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    Reid

    It’s been quoted heaps of times but no less valid that if Hamas stopped firing rockets at Israel then the IDF would cease the attack.

    Therefore if Hamas wants peace & no more killings the answer is completely in their hands.

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  212. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    In the meantime, the children of Gaza that were on the news tonight have been nominated for an Oscar – six year olds making statements about the conflict that even a 14 year old would struggle with was just a little too much to believe.

    I suspect the truth in all of this lies somewhere between the two sides we are hearing, but one thing is sure – we are being fed crap stories by a crap media.

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  213. Don the Kiwi (1,708 comments) says:

    Yep, Reid’s in denial.

    One of the usual suspects who has difficulty hearing, despite listening.

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  214. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    if Hamas wants peace & no more killings the answer is completely in their hands.

    But if Iswael wants peace as you seem to hallucinate, then why has it just slaughtered 800+ helpless civilians with cold hard US steel and explosives?

    Does this sound to you like a nation that genuinely wants peace?

    Especially when the Israeli non-military casualties by comparison to the 800+ are?

    Is that a conciliatory gesture nasska?

    And this is in the context of dozens of similar operations over the years, every few years, this happens again and again and again. Doesn’t it.

    And if you wanted to generate hatred from the people on the side of those who are being hit right now, why you couldn’t do a better job then could you?

    Just like the US did in Iraq, didn’t it.

    And Libya.

    And Syria.

    And currently, in Ukraine.

    etc.

    No pattern?

    Yeah right.

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  215. Griff (7,520 comments) says:

    Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man
    His enemies say he’s on their land
    They got him outnumbered about a million to one
    He got no place to escape to, no place to run
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    The neighborhood bully just lives to survive
    He’s criticized and condemned for being alive
    He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin
    He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land
    He’s wandered the earth an exiled man
    Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
    He’s always on trial for just being born
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
    Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
    Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
    The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
    That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him
    ’Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
    And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    He got no allies to really speak of
    What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love
    He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied
    But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
    They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
    Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
    They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone
    Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
    He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
    In bed with nobody, under no one’s command
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
    No contract he signed was worth what it was written on
    He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
    Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    What’s anybody indebted to him for?
    Nothin’, they say. He just likes to cause war
    Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
    They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    What has he done to wear so many scars?
    Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars?
    Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
    Running out the clock, time standing still
    Neighborhood bully
    Copyright © 1983 by Special Rider Music

    Read more: http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/neighborhood-bully#ixzz3924YA3VH

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  216. EAD (1,001 comments) says:

    @ Yoza,

    Orwell was no different from many thinking people.

    He was attracted to the ideals of socialism at an early age but with maturity came disillusion and reality.

    Animal Farm and 1984 are two of the greatest revealers of the reality of socialism, statism and the subjection of the individual to the will of an elite set of rulers, ever written.

    And as it has turned out, brilliantly predictive.

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  217. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Meanwhile, back in Godzone…. NO?

    Oh well, I think I’ll go watch Resurrection, seems appropriate!

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  218. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    Reid

    …”Does this sound to you like a nation that genuinely wants peace?”…..

    Hard to say…..sounds to me a bit more like a democratic government which must be seen to protect its own people. As I’ve asked you before. If a neighbour fired a skyrocket at your house every ten minutes for a few years how long do you reckon it would take before you went postal?

    Hamas risk nothing by a ceasefire…..with their breathless rimlickers of the MSM gathered adoringly at their feet they could take the moral high road & win their PR battle.

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  219. Maggy Wassilieff (344 comments) says:

    “In the meantime, the children of Gaza that were on the news tonight have been nominated for an Oscar – six year olds making statements about the conflict that even a 14 year old would struggle with was just a little too much to believe.”

    Who cares if they are acting???????
    They are children, for pity’s sake.
    They are my future, they are your future.
    Cherish them, keep them safe, do not hurt them.

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  220. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    He was in ecstasy with a huge smile on his face as his wife moved forwards, then backwards, forward, then backwards again… back and forth… back and forth… in and out… in and out. Her heart was pounding… her face was flushed… then she moaned, softly at first, then began to groan louder. Finally, totally exhausted, she let out an almighty scream and shouted “OKAY OKAY!! I CAN’T PARK THE FUCKING CAR! You do it, you SMUG bastard!”

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  221. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    As I’ve asked you before. If a neighbour fired a skyrocket at your house every ten minutes for a few years how long do you reckon it would take before you went postal?

    It depends how much I’d provoked them in the past to do what they were doing nasska.

    In Israel’s case, if I were Israel, personally I’d take the Christian approach and see why the Palestinians felt as they did, which means I’d absorb their skyrocket for around 10,000 years before I went over and talked to them about it. Without my gun. Which I had all the time. Which made me invincible against them.

    That’s what men do.

    Why do you support spiteful hate-filled creatures like poor widdle Iswael? After all, someone who picks on children to the point of killing them, sure aren’t men, are they.

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  222. cricko (303 comments) says:

    Thing is, it’s so easy for us independant observers to understand.

    viz. Hamas stop attacking Israel then there will be peace.
    QED

    Why can’t these muslims get it ?

    Answer…….well Yoza, or Reid, may be able to explain where that premise is wrong.

    Anyone else care to argue against that basic truth ?

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  223. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    When a nation is faced by fanatics who would hide weaponry under babies cots some loss of civilian life is inevitable Reid. Regardless of the value we put on the children’s lives, the Israeli may value them a little less. Then far further down the chain of human beings of worth are the fathers & brothers who act as terrorists on behalf of Hamas.

    After all they actually sacrifice the kids by risking them rather than protecting & hiding them…..rock apes perform with more humanity when attacked.

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  224. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/30/3-IDF-Soldiers-Killed-Uncovering-Booby-Trapped-UN-Building-In-Gaza

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  225. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    When a nation is faced by fanatics …

    WHY ARE THEY FANATICAL nasska?

    And even if they are, just that justify state-sponsored murder, such as we’re witnessing, again, for the nth time?

    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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  226. cricko (303 comments) says:

    Now there we have the typographical version of a fanatical, obsessive displayed in just 4 lines
    Reid @ 8.56

    Oh dear. Quite sad.
    Verging on losing it Reid,

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  227. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    What disgusts me about those here who support state-sponsored murder is that I suspect as strongly as it is possible to suspect without actually knowing for a fact, that none of you, not one of you, would ever be prepared to stand in Netanyahu’s shoes and give the order to execute Operation Cast Lead, Operation Pillar of Fire, Operation Protective Edge or any of the other murderous operations for which this bastard and his predecessors and his colleagues are directly responsible.

    I suspect that none of you would ever have the guts to put your soul on the line which is what you’d need to do, to take the actions you support here.

    Or would you.

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  228. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    Sitting many, many kilometres away from the action would probably give us a different view to that of the voter on the streets of Tel Aviv Reid. Perception counts for much in democratic politics…..if you actually lived in the path of the rockets you might be forgiven for thinking that it was the Government’s job to protect you & that your vote could be influenced by what they did.

    Don’t think ‘state sponsored murder’…..think ‘pre-emptive strike’ by a defence force who have taken an oath to protect & defend their country.

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  229. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    ….”WHY ARE THEY FANATICAL nasska?”…..

    It seems to have something to do with Hamas firing rockets then the IDF try to sort out the Hamas, then the Hamas fire some more rockets & the IDF go after the Hamas again…..ad infinitum.

    There’s only one constant we know of. No rockets & the IDF stay in Israel.

    There must be some way to build a peace around that.

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  230. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Sitting many, many kilometres away from the action would probably give us a different view to that of the voter on the streets of Tel Aviv Reid.

    Which gives one the luxury of dispassionate analysis nasska where the truth rules and falsehoods are stripped away by cold, hard logic. Too bad those of you supporting state-sponsored murder haven’t taken advantage of that.

    It seems to have something to do with Hamas firing rockets then the IDF try to sort out the Hamas, then the Hamas fire some more rockets & the IDF go after the Hamas again…..ad infinitum.

    If Israel was treated like Palestinians in Israel are treated:
    (a) what would you say if Israeli’s reacted?
    (b) what would you say if Palestine emulated precisely Israel’s response tactics?

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  231. cricko (303 comments) says:

    Jeez it’s so easy to stoke up the likes of Reid, Yoza and their mates with logic.

    It’s not even fun anymore.

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  232. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    The “luxury of dispassionate analysis” only takes you a little way down the path Reid. It may be the correct course of action but in the imperfect world we live in must be sold to the voters of a democratic nation. In most Islamic shitholes you have to climb over an unbending hate driven theology to reach the masses.

    The perfect solution gets a fair mangling by the time its halfway through processes like that.

    Pragmatism may win the day…..perfection hasn’t got a chance.

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  233. Griff (7,520 comments) says:

    Its being going around and around for as long as any of us remember.
    Its never going to end as long as there is religion

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  234. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    ….”If Israel was treated like Palestinians in Israel are treated:
    (a) what would you say if Israeli’s reacted?
    (b) what would you say if Palestine emulated precisely Israel’s response tactics?”…..

    Since it is the cowardice & dishonesty of Hamas I despise rather than their cause which I merely disagree with I’d probably feel much the same Reid.

    Though I would point out that were the rolls reversed the Israeli’s would also reverse the circumstances. The Jewish psyche is what allows 8 million people to prosper amidst about half a billion enemies living two rocks this side of the Stone Age.

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  235. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    “What disgusts me about those here who support state-sponsored murder is that I suspect as strongly as it is possible to suspect without actually knowing for a fact, that none of you, not one of you, would ever be prepared to stand in Netanyahu’s shoes and give the order to execute Operation Cast Lead, Operation Pillar of Fire, Operation Protective Edge or any of the other murderous operations for which this bastard and his predecessors and his colleagues are directly responsible.”

    if NZ shared a border with a shit ton of terrorists trying to kill us everyday, Dime would :)

    id have you strapped ot the front of a tank as we entered battle too, for good luck.

    also, anyone who supports us doing hakas at the olympics etc, they would be required to do one on the battlefield before they are given a weapon.

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  236. Griff (7,520 comments) says:

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  237. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    It may be the correct course of action but in the imperfect world we live in must be sold to the voters of a democratic nation.

    Yes nasska but we’re not talking about perfection and we’re not talking about pragmatism, either.

    See, pragmatic means Israel recognises the rocket attacks as what they are, an annoyance and not an existential threat indicating poor widdle Iswael is going to be wiped out in the next second. It can well afford to be like this, because the pragmatic equation is:
    (a) Palestinians only ever fire the equivalent of skyrockets and who, pragmatically, gives a fuck about that and
    (b) all the other Arab nations are, pragmatically speaking, kept at bay by the knowledge that poor widdle Iswael’s 300+ nukes will fry them if they even look at her funny, geopolitically speaking.

    So that’s pragmatism for you nasska.

    And the rest is history, but has it occurred to you and those others reading this who support state-sponsored murder that if you weren’t so hallucinatory, in a collective sense, then maybe there wouldn’t be quite so much of it?

    Its never going to end as long as there is religion,

    More accurate griff to say that Iswael is riding with the wrong religion, just they’ve managed to convince many in the West they’re riding with the same God we worship. They’re not, and when they do things like this, you can see it, clear and present.

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  238. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    “Palestinians only ever fire the equivalent of skyrockets”
    Oh stop telling lies.

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  239. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    “Palestinians only ever fire the equivalent of skyrockets”
    Oh stop telling lies.

    From a national security perspective this is the truth Red. It is. If you think it isn’t, you don’t understand the definition of national security.

    Which is what they’re using to justify state-sponsored murder. That’s the point. Der. Sorry if, to you, that’s rocket science.

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  240. Scott Chris (6,066 comments) says:

    I’ll go watch Resurrection, seems appropriate!

    Judith’s bf got viagra. ;)

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  241. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Oh bullshit. They’re firing M302’s . Why are you being so wilfully blind and biased. I agree Israel ain’t the best either but how about some honesty. Surely you’re better than this.

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  242. Griff (7,520 comments) says:

    Israel is there to stay get over it.

    Stop insulting her boarders with random rockets and boring holes to attack her population she will leave you in peace.

    Simple reality.

    Israel has no option but to retaliate or be constantly eroded by ongoing terrorism until over run with hate fulled religious nutters.
    You think whats happening in Gaza is barbaric.
    What would happen if the balance of power was with the Arabs?
    sorry to Goodwin but.
    It would make the Nazis look like a bunch of loved up hippies.

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  243. OneTrack (3,027 comments) says:

    “Why are you being so wilfully blind and biased. ”

    I’d say its because the Israelis are using US armaments and are supported by US money.

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  244. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Stop insulting her boarders with random rockets and boring holes to attack her population she will leave you in peace.

    Griff why do you hallucinate all this is happening as a result of absolutely no provocation whatsoever?

    Are you completely mental?

    Don’t you read anything?

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  245. Don the Kiwi (1,708 comments) says:

    Israel spent probably billions of dollars to protect their women and children from attack on their Iron Dome rocket defence system.

    Hamas spent billions of dollars given to them by the UN to protect their women and children – but what did they do? spent that money getting rockets to kill Israelis and built underground tunnels to attack Israel and their women and children.

    And what did they do , then, for their women and children?
    Why – they used them as human shields and brainwashed them into thinking they were doing something great for Allah.

    And the delusionals like Reid and co. blame Israel, as all the leftist retard blinded brainwashed do.

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  246. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    If Hamas stopped the rockets there would be peace, if Israel laid down their arms there would be slaughter.
    That’s the difference. One is really pissed off with being harassed , the other is a blind ideologue zealot who just wants to kill Israelis and doesn’t care if it’s own people get killed if it helps the ” cause” and will happily kill them if they get in the way.

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  247. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    One track
    So it’s the enemy of my enemy. The irony is the current US govt are probably the enemy of Israel. Biden is just pathetic. Not the USA people though!

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  248. Nostalgia-NZ (5,120 comments) says:

    ‘Who cares if they are acting???????
    They are children, for pity’s sake.
    They are my future, they are your future.
    Cherish them, keep them safe, do not hurt them’

    For some reason I thought most people shared such thinking, but apparently not.
    Bad actors should be bombed, don’t disregard bad actors – bomb them. If you see children in the street, don’t trust them – they could be bad actors. There is nothing else to be concerned about. No thing rising about empathy or concern, shut down on that stuff. Imagine a train, people going on a train – everything will be fine then. Queue, holding something to remember where you came from before you ended up in the wrong place. Took the wrong turn, got born in the wrong life. There are no windows in the carriages. Nothing to see.

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  249. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    why arent all the lefties here (and bruv) screaming for gun control in palestine? that would sort things out nicely!

    oh thats right, only the glorious state are allowed firearms, cause they are responsible

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  250. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Israel spent probably billions of dollars to protect their women and children from attack an their Iron Dome rocket defence system.

    ALL given to them by the US, Don. GIVEN TO THEM. BY THE US. NOT SPENT THEMSELVES. NOT EARNED BY THEIR SWEAT. GIVEN TO THEM.

    Hamas spen billions of dolars given to them by the UN to protect their women and children – but what did they do? spent the money getting rockets to kill Israelis and built underground tunnels to attack Israel and their women and children.

    No actually Don if you look it up you will discover if you’re a truth seeker and not just looking to prove something you’ve already decided is the case, that that money went on schools, hospitals and social support. Wonder why Hamas is so popular amongst the Pelstinians? That’s why. The money they spend on rockets comes from people in mostly the US satrap countries, like Saudi Arabia, who have terrorist connections.

    The definition of terrorism is what? Killing innocents? So why Don, as a Christian, are you supporting state-sponsored murderers who do that in plain sight?

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  251. Griff (7,520 comments) says:

    The provocation is Israels very existence Reid
    After having been brought up on a diet of hate and vengeance for generations now its to late for the region to ever step back.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/26/us-egypt-sinai-gaza-idUSKBN0FV0ME20140726

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  252. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    Nostalgia-NZ – reckon youd have the balls to shoot someone?

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  253. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Children blow up so fast these days.
    Especially when they are forced to stand in front of ammo dumps. What sort of people do that?

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  254. big bruv (13,729 comments) says:

    Evening Dime

    Yes, gun control is a good thing. You don’t really want to end up like the states do you?

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  255. OneTrack (3,027 comments) says:

    reid – “Griff why do you hallucinate all this is happening as a result of absolutely no provocation whatsoever?”

    The Weatherston defence – she made me do it. Ye gods.

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  256. Don the Kiwi (1,708 comments) says:

    Reid.

    Did you watch that video I posted at 7.40 pm. about the son of the founder of Hamas?

    If you watched that, you may form a different view of the “loveable” Hamas.

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  257. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    Bruv – as long as our military remains as toothless as it is, I’m happy with how many guns are in private hands. If we had a huge military, I’d want increased ownership.

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  258. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Maggie
    Because Maggie,these children were being used by the media. They were having cameras shoved in their faces and clearly being told what to say etc. If they are so concerned about the children why use them and stress them further at a time when they are already upset. The media are disgusting. It appears to me the children are being used by one side who doesn’t seem to care that they are adding to their torment by exploiting them further. I can’t believe that with what these children are already exposed to that you think it is alright for them to be coerced and used further.

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  259. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    “A man who has had sexual relations with an animal, such as a sheep, may not eat its meat. He would commit sin.”
    Ayatollah Khomeini
    There’s so much you could say about the attitudes this quote reveals I don’t know where to start. Certainly not with Mint sauce on the side!

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  260. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    If you watched that, you may form a different view of the “loveable” Hamas.

    Don I don’t “love” Hamas. The only people I love in this are the victims of the persecution.

    This is what I find extraordinary about this particular conflict.

    See, if I was talking about Syrians or Libyans or Martians, being persecuted by State X, then you wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

    But as soon as the subject becomes the Palestinians but more particularly, the persecutors being Jews, for some reason, in that case and only in that case, reason flies out the window and hysteria sets up house.

    Isn’t that peculiar.

    Because that’s what happens, isn’t it.

    And the thinking Christian naturally asks themselves, why is that?

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  261. Don the Kiwi (1,708 comments) says:

    But Reid.

    The persecutors are not the Jews – they are the Palestinians under their chosen leadership of Hamas.

    The Israelis are not seeking to destroy the Palestinian women and children but the rockets and resources of Hamas, who have vowed to exterminate them. Israel has not vowed to exterminate Palestinians. As has been repeated here ad nauseam – if Hamas laid down their arms, there would be peace. If Israel laid down their arms, they would be slaughtered.

    The Israelis go to the trouble of ringing their targets and warning them to get the people evacuated – Hamas convince or force the civilians to stay, so that they will be killed, and so use the images on TV etc. for propaganda purposes.

    Much as I decry the death of children, I hold Hamas and the Palestinians accountable for the misery of their people.

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  262. Maggy Wassilieff (344 comments) says:

    “Because Maggie,these children were being used by the media.”

    Gosh, I’m thick. I thought they were being killed, injured, maimed etc by adults, weapons, war machines etc.
    Thanks for putting me right. I’ll sleep well now.

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  263. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Don
    I think the people of Gaza are oppressed and subjugated to Hamas. They terrorise them and if you don’t agree you will get killed.
    Simple as that . Hamas rule by the gun.
    They have to go.

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  264. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    The persecutors are not the Jews – they are the Palestinians under their chosen leadership of Hamas.

    Then why do the Jews kill so many of them so frequently when by comparison hardly any Jews are killed at all?

    The Israelis are not seeking to destroy the Palestinian women and children

    Then why does “collateral damage” happen so often, to them?

    The Israelis go to the trouble of ringing their targets and warning them to get the people evacuated – Hamas convince or force the civilians to stay, so that they will be killed, and so use the images on TV etc. for propaganda purposes.

    And you know this for a fact, how? Or are you relying on Western media to tell you this is what happens? And BTW, if this is the case, then how come the UN school told Isweal where they were 15 times, and they still got hit? And before you say this was an isolated incident, then why don’t you do some googling to find other such “isolated” incidents?

    Don.

    Israel is ruled by Satan. The Israeli leaders who are all beholden to Satan wish to destroy the Israeli state so that Satan can proclaim to the Christians that God doesn’t exist and if He does then He doesn’t care about them and He won’t help them. The Rothschilds setup Israel, it was no accident the Balfour Declaration was written to a Rothschild.

    There is lots more you should know but this isn’t the time to explain it. Suffice to say the simple observation is that Israel’s leaders could change the face of ME politics if they merely acted with Christian brotherly love toward the Palestinians. That would change everything. But they don’t. They never have, and they never will. Why they don’t, when this is the obvious solution, is the question you should ask yourself.

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  265. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    “Then why do the Jews kill so many of them so frequently when by comparison hardly any Jews are killed at all?”

    Because Hamas are useless and Israel is better at it.
    What’s your point?
    It’s not fair unless it’s even? Grow up.
    If Hamas lose more they should wake up and stop.

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  266. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    “Israel is ruled by Satan”
    Really? You’re fucking insane. The side which puts children deliberately in harms way to protect munitions is just evil. End of story. Do you have children? Obviously not. Wow, just wow.

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  267. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Reid
    I could see a defence on behalf of the people of Gaza being justified but with regard to Hamas there are no grounds whatsoever.
    They are a scourge and must go. They are corrupt, and terrorise Gaza.
    Egypt, Saudi Arabia et al are sick of them and are siding with Israel. I would be surprised if Israel stops until all of them are killed.
    And then I reckon the Gazans would thank them

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  268. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Israel is ruled by Satan

    I didn’t say the Israeli people are satanic, Red, I said they are ruled by Satanic forces. And when you look at what they do, how can you object to that conclusion? Unless you’re blind.

    Reid
    I could see a defence on behalf of the people of Gaza being justified but with regard to Hamas there are no grounds whatsoever.

    Red. I’ve repeated myself on this point a thousand times. I’m getting tired of doing it. Let me repeat myself one more time, in caps, not because I’m angry, but because it’s quite elementary and I’m not sure why you don’t get it.

    JUST BECAUSE I CONDEMN STATE SPONSORED MURDER DOES NOT MEAN I’M AT ONE AND THE SAME TIME ALSO FAVOURING IN ANYWAY WHATSOEVER THE MURDER OF OTHERS BY OTHER TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS, LIKE HAMAS. WHAT THE FUCK ABOUT THAT IS DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND?

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  269. IC5000 (107 comments) says:

    “Maggy Wassilieff (261 comments) says:
    July 31st, 2014 at 8:38 pm

    Who cares if they are acting???????
    They are children, for pity’s sake.
    They are my future, they are your future.
    Cherish them, keep them safe, do not hurt them.”

    No, wrong. To someone with a modicum of humanity they would be children. Crocodile tears aside, to most posters here they are not children. They are future terrorists in the making, raghead wogs noteven worthy of being called human, willing propaganda tools in the hands of a fundamentalist terrorist death cult, collateral damage but most of all expendable.

    What mystifies me is how people like Don the Kiwi and Griff can look in the mirror and not hate the cunt looking back and want to put a bullet through their head.

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  270. publicwatchdog (2,516 comments) says:

    Historic sentencing of John Banks –
    TOMORROW:

    Friday 1 August 2014
    9am (note early start!)

    Auckland High Court, Waterloo Quadrant .

    Some of us intend to be there from 8.30am.

    The Courtroom is likely to be packed.

    Penny Bright

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  271. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    The Courtroom is likely to be packed.

    Penny why does the image of the old crones who used to gather before madam guillotine doing their knitting to watch human being after human being get murdered, come to mind?

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  272. SPC (5,595 comments) says:

    Reid your use of the term old crone, is itself loaded with bigotry towards the thousands of women demonised as witches and murdered by Christians.

    Your belief that Jews and Israel are under the rule of satanic forces comes from the same heritage.

    A similar world view held by Moslems is why they war to kill Jews and … others not Moslems.

    Oh the irony of someone with your baggage offering an opinion of the behaviour of only one party in a violent conflict.

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  273. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Ok Reid
    So war is just politics achieved by States by another means. I get that. The thing is there are degrees. And I am afraid the “state” of Gaza is worse. Israel clearly love their own children more than Hamas love the children of the Gazan people. Call it the greater of the two evils if you like.
    Edit- bloody predictive text!

    Penny, you’re an idiot.

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  274. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Last thing and I hate to break it to you, but there is no God and no Satan.
    Just energy which is probably perpetual in some form. There is probably a shift to a different form after death but forget the supreme being creator nonsense.
    Doesn’t exist.

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  275. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Israel is ruled by Satan”

    Really? You’re fucking insane. The side which puts children deliberately in harms way to protect munitions is just evil. End of story.

    What side? Most of the people of Gaza hate Hamas. And Reid’s not insane, you’re just ignorant.

    “The rabbi said we are actually conducting the war of ‘the sons of light’ against ‘the sons of darkness’. This is in fact a statement with highly messianic language… It turns the other side as a generality into ‘sons of darkness’ while we become ‘sons of light’. There is no differentiation which we would expect to find between civilians and others. Here is one people fighting another people, with all the messianic implications. But that’s the point: this is also religious propaganda. In other words, the army is not a revival meeting. They do not put on a uniform in order to be Judaized.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-soldiers-reveal-the-brutal-truth-of-gaza-attack-1746485.html

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  276. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “If Hamas stopped the rockets there would be peace, if Israel laid down their arms there would be slaughter.”

    If Israel stopped stealing Palestinian land and returned the land it had already stolen the rockets would stop and there would be peace.

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  277. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    f Israel stopped stealing Palestinian land and returned the land it had already stolen the rockets would stop and there would be peace.

    Stop telling lies you gullible fool. Hamas will never stop. It’s thee entire purpose . You’re not very bright are you.

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  278. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    UT
    You’re fucking insane too if you think Satan is running Israel. There is no satan. Sure there’s good and evil natures but there’s no god and no satan.

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  279. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    The forces of barbarism advance: http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=67386

    Libya’s Islamist militant group Ansar al-Sharia has said that it seized complete control of Benghazi late on Wednesday, declaring the city an “Islamic emirate,” the group’s representative said.

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  280. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Stop telling lies you gullible fool. Hamas will never stop. It’s thee entire purpose . You’re not very bright are you.”

    You know I’m right All_on_Red and your personal abuse proves it.

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  281. Scott (1,780 comments) says:

    All on red- not taking sides with Ugly Truth , however there is God who made you and created all things – I know, I talked to him this morning.
    And there is Satan as well, definitely a source of supernatural evil in the world.

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  282. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “I know, I talked to him this morning.”

    But did he talk back Scott?

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  283. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Sure there’s good and evil natures but there’s no god and no satan.

    That is a simply a statement of faith. You can’t know that unless you are omniscient.

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