The Toronto housing market became unhinged from the domestic economy when the federal government stopped managing immigration (to suit economic conditions).
Yet as Figure 2 clearly indicates, household growth was sustained through
immigration, which accounted for 78 percent of net population growth from 1986
through 1991 and 93 percent from 1991 to 1996 (Bourne 1998). Immigration gains of
about 70,000 a year over this decade were not far behind those of New York in the 1980s
(Waldinger 1996). These trends steadily match the climbing price gradient from 1986 to
1989, but continued at high levels while the housing market crumbled during the deep
recession of 1990-92, with GDP stagnant in 1990 and 1991, while unemployment
exceeded 11 percent in 1992. Why should immigration continue to rise during a
recession? Several factors seem to have been at work. First, and most important, the
federal government abandoned its policy of regulating immigration according to the state
of the economic cycle; high entry levels were declared for a five-year period regardless of
the condition of the national economy. Consequently high entry targets were sustained
during recession. Second, the movement of immigrants is only imperfectly related to
local economic conditions at the destination as American researchers have noted
(Waldinger 1996; Frey 1996). Economic migrants have a medium- to long-term horizon
and are prepared to wait out immediate economic downturns, while refugees – and
Toronto is by far the major refugee destination in Canada – were arriving in response to
immediate circumstances in regions such as Somalia, Sri Lanka, Eastern Europe and
Central America where civil war made survival a primary motive for movement. The
result is that while immigration was the principal new demand impulse during this period,
it shows only a low positive correlation against price changes in the housing market. The
data support the inference, however, that without the very high level of housing demand
sustained by immigrants in the early 1990s, the collapse of Toronto prices would have
been much exaggerated, perhaps precipitous. This is of course why the development
industry in Toronto and Vancouver (Ley 1995, Mitchell 1996) has lobbied so hard for
sustained high immigration levels.
Vancouver Centre of Excellence
Research on Immigration and
Integration in the Metropolis
Working Paper Series
Immigration and Metropolitan House Prices in Canada
David Ley and Judith Tutchener
Starts on page 15. Appears to vindicate Labours policy re immigration and house prices and points the finger at the Property Council ETC (Construction sector/Fat and Struggling Cats/Mortgage Holding Banks and their Lap Dog Economists/PR Firms and Andrea Vance type Spreaders of Miss Information). http://mbc.metropolis.net/assets/uploads/files/wp/1999/WP99-09.pdf
This close to an election is it wise to upset the Health Sector Unions by offering a wage rise of 1% for next 18 months? Stepehen Joyce is on record as saying “Average wages are up by 3.2%” and Everyone is banging on about a “rockstar economy”. How about our nurses and doctors get to see some benefit?
@ Jinky (161 comments) says:
July 3rd, 2014 at 8:10 am
The fact is Jinky, no one cares about the nurses and the doctors. Those medical professionals that work in the private sector get ample remuneration, as their wealthy customers can pay plenty. The rest simply don’t matter to a man that wanted to be Prime Minister, for the power and a way to improve the wealth of his ilk, as opposed to a man that cares for his country and all the people in it, and sees being Prime Minister as a means of doing that.
Who knows, we may have to take up the Greens offer of printing money (shudder) so we can extend the party a bit longer rather than facing up to our unsustainable debts.
Personally, I think our collective debt has by now so far outstripped the ability of the indebted to even sustain it let alone pay it down that it has become its own currency, a weird inversion if there ever was one and a state of such fragility, glass everywhere is the only possible outcome.
@ Nostradamus (2,903 comments) says:
July 3rd, 2014 at 8:17 am
Did you have to? I mean really, can’t we have one day without inflaming imaginations and illusion?
Oh well, here goes.
If we must have religious instruction in schools, then out of fairness and equality, and as a secular society, we must allow all religions equal access.
Now, I don’t know about other parents, but thoughts of the scientologists, Hare Krishnas, etc having access to children is somewhat frightening.
So, NO, schooling is about education in the things that encourage a child to reach their full potential, and allow them to lead a self sufficient life. Religion is a ‘home’ topic – one that should come from within the family environment.
@ Lance (2,384 comments) says:
July 3rd, 2014 at 8:23 am
NZ spends far too much on health, far more than it should do, BUT, these are professionals who actually quite literally have the lives of others in their immediate control. I don’t know about you, but if there isn’t enough money to provide equity in their incomes, we’d be a hell of a lot better off cutting the wages of our MP’s, to obtain the money, because quite frankly, the vast majority aren’t even worth paying the minimum wage to.
ShawnLH will probably be along soon to reopen the perennial debate over theism/atheism.
I’m less interested in that debate (which is utterly pointless as no one is likely to change their position) and more interested in the issue of whether there should be any religious instruction in schools.
My view, for what it’s worth, is that we need to get back to basic literacy and numeracy (with a bit of physical education thrown in for good measure). The three Rs – reading, writing and arithmetic – don’t seem to be well understood these days.
This part of the article caught my eye:
God in the classroom
• By law, state schools are secular, but can choose to “close” during school hours for half an hour of religious lessons each week.
What exactly does that mean – a school can choose to “close” during school hours? And, besides religious lessons, what else can it “close” for?
It’s a matter of record that current levels of immigration under skilled migrants categories are at historical lows. This is the part of migration that can be managed without depriving returning citizens of their rights or breaching our reciprocal agreements with Australia.
Labour is beating a xenophobic drum without having any solution, and without being honest that the record migration levels we are experiencing cannot be managed by any policy they could propose.
Dreadfully racists BUT …
THE IRISH ANSWER THAT WON A MILLION POUNDS….
The Irish Millionaire
Mick, from Dublin , appeared on ‘Who Wants To Be a Millionaire’ and toward the end of the program had already won 500,000 pounds. “You’ve done very well so far,” said Chris Tarrant, the show’s presenter,”but for a million pounds, you’ve only got one life-line left, phone a friend. Everything is riding on this question. Will you go for it?”
“Sure,” said Mick. “I’ll have a go!”
“Which of the following birds does NOT build its own nest?
” I haven’t got a clue.” said Mick, ”So I’ll use me last lifeline and phone me friend Paddy back home in Dublin ..”
Mick called up his mate Paddy, and told him the circumstances and repeated the question to him.
“Fookin’ hell, Mick!” cried Paddy. “Dat’s simple – it’s a cuckoo.”
“Are you sure?”
“I’m fookin’ sure.”
Mick hung up the phone and told Chris, “I’ll go with cuckoo as me answer.”
“Is that your final answer?” asked Chris.
“Dat it is.”
There was a long, long pause and then the presenter screamed, “Cuckoo is the correct answer! Mick, you’ve won 1 million pounds!”
The next night, Mick invited Paddy to their local pub to buy him a drink.
“Tell me, Paddy? How in Heaven’s name did you know it was da Cuckoo that doesn’t build its own nest?”
Property Council Says Auckland Ninmby’s need to Think of the Economy (Move Forward – Think of How Much Money They Will Make)
The Kiwi (Once Was) lifestyle isn’t just about a house and Garden. It was about a House and Garden close to the Town Center.
O.K so suppose we switch to lovely? …? apartments. It is unlikely to be win:win. The reality is that a zoning change is a windfall to investors and a loss to those who loose sunlight and ambience.
Of course when the young people have children we have to build for them, but this isn’t about natural population increase it is about immigration policy based on dubious economic and social grounds.
I am glad that I was brought up in the UK and had religion as part of my education…. took and passed it as one of my SC subjects …. but the sad part was that it was solely a small part of the new testiment of christianity instead of the broad scope of religions that Judith seems afraid of.
As I wrote recently … Religion is a great idea but sadly in human hands.
The latest Roy Morgan poll has minor moves with support levels similar to most other June polls.
National (48%, down 1.5%)
Labour Party 28% (unchanged)
Greens 12% (unchanged)
New Zealand First 5.5% (up 1.5%)
Internet-Mana Party 2.5% (unchanged)
Maori Party 1.5% (up 0.5%)
Conservative Party of NZ 1% (down 0.5%)
Act NZ (1%, up 0.5%)
United Future 0% (unchanged).
Independent/ Others 0.5% (down 0.5%)
PG posted the above last night on GD. Interesting to note that Internet-Mana did not fall away and the NZF and the MP increase. On these figures if the 3 parties reached an agreement they could hold the balance of power to form a Gov with Labour/Greens. There has been talk about this as though it seems far fetched. However, it should be remembered the Hone ‘came out’ of the Maori Party and broadly speaking the 2 parties ‘inclinations’ coincide. Peters, as with the other two party leaders is also Maori whether that could possibly be a factor in any agreement between them now, or in the near future, is unclear. One factor that is clear however the opportunity at the moment clearly represents their opportunity to be part of a Labour Greens Government in unity or alternatively have only the MP on the Treasury benches. It has been important to National for years that the Maori vote remains split despite it not necessarily being in Maori interest. The odds tighten if the 3 reach some formal or informal agreement, what seems clear that the ‘work on the ground in the electorates’ may be showing a positive trend in the polls at the right time. No need to draw attention that IM sit atop the ‘chasing’ parties or it could be said hold onto the tail end of the front runners. As JK said at the Party Conference it remains a tight race. It is solely him that has been able to bring the MP along to form a Government, it will be interesting if such a combination remains important this election as it has for the last 2, and indeed if the MP have ‘loyalty’ to the Nats or might be convinced their voters will do better off else where.
It’s a matter of record that current levels of immigration under skilled migrants categories are at historical lows. This is the part of migration that can be managed without depriving returning citizens of their rights or breaching our reciprocal agreements with Australia
Well you have to ask yourself why we have had such high immigration. Are we trying to manage it more than before. John Key told Hard Talk BBC “we are a migration friendly country”, what’s more he is using pathetic arguments like “I wouldn’t be here under Labour’s policy”.
@ Nostradamus (2,904 comments) says:
July 3rd, 2014 at 8:33 am
I agree with you. Schooling is about teaching children the skills they need to be able to advance in a self-sufficient manner. Which in our type of society, is about being able to earn an income.
Schooling, whilst teaching adherence to the law, should never be about indoctrination of religious belief. As attendance at school is legislated, the hours in that environment should never be able to be used for religious instruction, or any form of instruction that does not fit within the basic principles of education (relevant to the desired outcome as mentioned above).
The only changes I would make to the reading writing and mathematics choice, is that children learn in different ways, and what methods and subjects suit one, don’t always suit another. Our education system has to be flexible enough to cater for children from the ‘arty’ to the practical learners. That is, flexible enough to find alternative methods of teaching the three R’s in a way that allows all children to reach their full potential. (realising of course that not all children are mini einsteins)
@ Nostalgia-NZ (4,851 comments) says:
July 3rd, 2014 at 8:54 am
So it is still ‘anybody’s’ race?
I wonder how it would change if the previous large group of non-voters actually made the effort to vote?
Many people stated they hadn’t voted because they simply didn’t like any of the options – a sort of protest ‘vote’. But what might happen if those same people decided to vote for a ‘rank outsider’ as a means of ‘protesting’ against the traditional parties?
I still think the next government will be a ‘mish mash’ of a coalition, and we will be back at the polls before the normal time frame.
“…..So, NO, schooling is about education in the things that encourage a child to reach their full potential, and allow them to lead a self sufficient life. Religion is a ‘home’ topic – one that should come from within the family environment….”
Firstly Religion does help people reach their full potential – Churchill to name one.
There is a valid arguement as to how much the government should be involved in any single individual’s education. In times past it was mostly the likes of the Churches that educated children – and with no oversight from government what soever. You can’t say it didn’t work.
Charter schooling is the best option for NZ kids as they lack the opportunity of choice amongst private schools. Charter schools can then cater to the Religious needs of children – or any other needs for that matter, Catholics for example open 10 Charter Schools in Auckland, Lutherans 8, Hari Krishnas 1, progs 2, Marxists 1, sexualists 1, ect.
Sex education when taken seriously – is actually a parenting class Judith – so currently the government delivers very little for the reach that it has into a child’s education. Sex ed is currently not life affirming. It doesn’t do young women justice.
The state should have a minimal role in a child’s education Judith. Mainly one of overseeing that high standards are meet in english, maths ect.
Almighty God, humbly acknowledging our need for Thy guidance in all things,
and laying aside all private and personal interests, we beseech Thee to grant
that we may conduct the affairs of this House and of our country to the glory of Thy holy name,
the maintenance of true religion and justice, the honour of the Queen, and the public welfare,
peace, and tranquillity of New Zealand, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
Dime sat through a few religious classes at primary school. I cant remember the frequency.
I found them beneficial. In a sense that I learned the meaning of Easter etc It helped me understand where Christians are coming from. I cant recall any kids becoming religious because of the classes..
There were always kids who opted out too. Jehovah witnesses had their own class. Some went to the hall etc
We had occasional bible classes at primary school, and I went to Sunday School for a while. It seemed a bit like Grimms Fairy Tales or Hans Christian Anderson but a lot more boring.
At High School morning we had a prayer, a bible reading and a hymn every day. That accentuated the boredom. Then at boarding school we had to go to church on Sundays. More boring than prep. And the odd time I’ve been to a church service, boring. Sermons were quaint or seemed ludicrous, didn’t like the songs, it is just never been something that has interested or inspired me. Obviously it’s different for some others.
EAD (476 comments) says:
July 3rd, 2014 at 8:23 am
A couple of ominous headlines in todays papers that the Milk payout this year is going to plummet:
Myself I might be in the Great Ocean Liner NZ INC but I would like to think the ship has lifeboats. Species that survive can weather the storm. In the 1930’s depression my Grandfather noted that farming people could do o.k as they were living off the land whereas town folk did less well. Town folk in those days were better off than town folk today as even in town they bottled fruit and grew vegetables. The sickest most useless strategy ever has to be the one based on the silly popular delusion that importing lots of people will make us wealthier and economically healthier. People have become thought of as a crop (all thinking, being creative, producing all based on brain power – detached from a physical world).
Sex education in schools is giving the ‘facts’, as it should. It is up to the parent’s to provide the morality. Not the school.
Basically you are proposing removing that right from the parent’s and allowing the school to decide what is morally right or wrong? I can’t agree with that.
Parents need to be responsible for their children. Responsible parents should provide the extra teachings that the school system doesn’t. The functioning of the human body, including sexual function is a scientific topic – sex education, that is the changes that occur with puberty, contraception etc, is also scientific. Again it is the parents who should be teaching their children when and where such things are best to be practiced.
We need to put more emphasis on the family and parents to take up their responsibilities, NOT less.
There is no significant change in the average of the polls.
Morgan is not reliable as a weather vane.
The two poll averages that are important are Curia and Poll of Polls.
They provide the following at about June21 (Curia first):
Nats 53.8 / 50.4; Labour 26.5/28.5; Green 10.9/11.5; Peters 4.1/4.4; I-M 0.9/1.3; Maori 0.9/1.0
I still believe the Liu business is damaging to Labour only in the sense that it deprives labour of policy oxygen. The Malaysian fiasco is essentially a female activist/beltway issue. The great unwashed will say: “Bloody diplomats/bureaucrats. They think they are so superior” ….and move on. Again, Labour is deprived of policy oxygen. Tough shit.
It is up to the parent’s to provide the morality. Not the school.
Have you been in a primary school recently?
The walls are plastered with posters about “taking turns”, “respecting others and their belongings”, “speaking in turn”, respect, no hitting, respect, respect.
I can’t remember any such sign or poster in evidence when I went to school, albeit sveral decades ago.
if anyone uses linkedIn, can you tell me what you like/dislike about it?
Likes: it’s a good place to direct work contacts and colleagues that you don’t want on your Facebook page and I suppose it’s useful-ish to find and contact people you want to sell to, but not massively better than the old-fashioned way of just asking people questions and listening to their answers.
Dislikes: It makes it much harded to “tweak” your CV for a specific job application, recruitment spam…
I’ve got some internal presentation on how we’re going to be using it as a company today, so I’ll update you with any blinding insights (Tui) tomorrow Ciaron.
Seems a little odd that israel ‘the only democracy in the middle east’ is bombing Gaza in retaliation when the bodies of those murdered israeli kids were found in the West Bank. Seems even more insane that israel thinks it is ok to start bombing innocent civilians, at all. What happened to a proper trial inside the framework of the law to ascertain guilt before a punishment is handed down to the guilty of those horrible crimes.
@ Harriet (4,401 comments) says:
July 3rd, 2014 at 9:33 am
Until such time as religion can provide the ‘facts’ regarding what it claims, it has no basis in the education system of today’s society.
I have no problem with the history of the various religions being taught in history – they are part of the evolution of society, but I do have a problem with religion being taught among other factual topics, when as yet, there is nothing proven as factual about it.
@ Yvette (2,643 comments) says:
July 3rd, 2014 at 9:24 am
I agree that those things should be taught by parents and in the family environment. That is clearly not always done, which is a sad reflection of current society, however, the teaching of such behaviours is relevant in schooling because they are behaviours that impede on the school environment and prevent the aims of education from being fulfilled. Religious instruction does not provide the same.
“…..Until such time as religion can provide the ‘facts’ regarding what it claims, it has no basis in the education system of today’s society….”
Judith you miss the whole point – There is a valid arguement as to how much the government should be involved in any single individual’s education. Parents send their kids to christian schools ect so that they are ‘more rounded citizens’ ect
You can’t say that ‘all kids’ need the states idea of ‘education’ -and that only- installed into them. And besides, Julia Gillard has said so herself!
“australia couldn’t educate students to the level we currently do without the private schools”[about 25% of all schools in aussie are private christian]
“…..it has no basis in the education system of today’s society….”
‘education system of today’s society’ and ‘religion has no basis in the education system…’
Re: ‘The schools give the children the so called ‘facts’ that they wish to give students – and suppress the facts they don’t agree with’.
Exactly. Ultimately it is to do with ‘Political Agenda’, and as the marxists have been in control at the NZ Min of Ed since the late 90’s, this is reflected in the current curriculum.
It’s actually very enlightening to ask modern students about (for example, and because its my specialisation) NZ history; One soon learns (unintentional pun, sorry) that a ‘rework’ has been undertaken and , to paraphrase Orwell, ‘Bad is Good, Good is Bad’ and that there are some things which are ‘VERY BAD INDEED’, especially when it relates to the poor, oppressed Maori who were victimised and duped by the rapacious white colonials’ etc. etc. etc.
In that regard, various New Zealand ‘enlightened’ historians have got a lot to answer for….
This is of course only relates to the ‘manipulation’ to one subject, there are numerous others, with the intent always being to create ‘sheep’. Unfortunately, the plan seems to be succeeding quite well…
“……Another point is, in our multi-cultural society, if religion was to be taught in schools, how do we determine which religions should be taught, which denominations of those religions, etc ?
Would you be happy for your children to have lessons in scientology? Islam? Hare Krishna? Buddism? etc?…”
That’s why NZ is getting charter schools – to supply the parent market with options for their children’s education – the current millitary charter school eg.
The Catholics open 10 charter schools to supply the market and the buddists open 2. The sexualists 1. What’s wrong with that?
Buddist parents then get their children educated the way they prefer, and the Catholics and sexualists do to.
Everyone is supplied and everyone is happy. A true ‘multi cultural’ society Judith.
@ Harriet (4,402 comments) says:
July 3rd, 2014 at 9:47 am
I’m not a communist, although I have studied and agree with some of Marx and Engels writing.
I am not saying religion doesn’t have its place in society Harriet. Quite the opposite. Although I personally do not believe in any god (other than he who thinks he is obeyed), I believe that society was far more content when it had religion as a moderating factor.
The problem with current society is that it is made up of many different cultures, and therefore religions. Not all religions are equal, and if you allow one to be part of the education system, you must allow all. In the interests of equality, all children would then be required to have equal exposure to all the various religions.
Now maybe you are alright with that, but I am not. Apart from detracting from the proper business of education, and using up time better spent on other topics, I certainly would not want my children, or grandchildren being exposed to some things that I regard as nothing more than ‘quackery’. Although, I do find some Buddhist teachings to be very relevant in dealing with today’s stressors.
If the family wants it, the family makes the time to teach it. Keep it out of school.
Morning flipper. Bloody interesting though. With the MP ‘in the tent’ the inner workings on policy in Justice, housing etc are certainly of interest to the MP. Although the Minister of Finance has been forthright with his views on the economic value of prisons there are perhaps a couple of other clues, Pora’s release and the PM signalling the greater use of tracking devices in some domestic cases. The later of course opens a door for further reductions in prison inmate numbers overall. Meanwhile with the white hot issue of the housing ‘reformation’ in Glen Innes (white hot at least for some of the locals there) a recent event of violence against the ‘house movers’ appears to have gone unreported in the media. I think that is certainly one side of things and a reason perhaps why the lesser parties may not form a group in order for their vote percentage to count as a whole rather than against it self in some ways.
Personally, I think the Liu ‘issue’ reflects poorly on who ever might choose to try and exploit it – but there is a sense that Cunliffe is ‘weathering’ the highs and lows as his experience as leader deepens. The unions are fairly quite which reduces some ‘fears’ for some in the electorate. Also, I don’t think there is as much concern about who runs the economy across the board because many probably have the view that the Nats and Labour are fairly similar hands at the wheel. For that reason the critical watch may well be on the whether the MP, IM and NZ percentages increase or hold and the inclinations of Parliament’s apparent ‘maverick’ – Peters.
Frankly, who would have picked there would be a IM party in the election? Along with that there will be the far from conservative view among some in the electorate that everything but the kitchen sink being thrown at KD has apparently resulted in the Government being seen as somewhat impotent – so maybe that may gain traction among younger voters who ‘fix’ on single points rather than a larger picture. It’s getting harder to pick even if this is a rogue poll. Hold onto your hat material, do you agree?
Basically you are proposing removing that right from the parent’s and allowing the school to decide what is morally right or wrong? I can’t agree with that.
I completely agree that values should be taught by parents and schools should focus on skills. But there are many different controversial issues where the school pushes a viewpoint on kids. Religion should not be uniquely disfavoured compared to diet/health, environmental issues, sexual choices etc etc.
Also, the school is not teaching religion. The school is closed when it happens. Schools need to be open for a certain number of hours per year and can allow their buildings to be used for other purposes outside those hours. That is what is happening here. Of course if they ‘close’ the school for just one hour in the middle of the day so it is impractical for students to leave then there is little difference. But if people are saying that any building used by a school cannot be used for religious purposes when the school is closed but other clubs etc. can use it, then that is just straightforward discrimination against religion.
I suspect things are seen differently in regional or essentially rural electorates. The dairy/irrigation/water issue is real in some provincial areas.
Was in Wellington (NZ Initiative) to hear Tim Wilson (excellent Aus Human Rights Commissioner who is shaking some trees in Canberra and elsewhere) on Tuesday evening. Mostly beltway types, including several pollies, but the feeling was overwhelmingly pro J Key. But…… all that ignores the inherent demands (or drawbacks) of MMP – coalitions.
So yes…much water and many bridges.
Just a thort (perhaps a nasty one) what would happen should Labour/green/I-M et al be in the beehive after 9/20?
The Pora case in November, Lundy, Watson, Ellis and, oh that’s right, Bain. Would the rag-tag coalition endorse the J Collins stances? I suspect not. So where will they end up? Interesting!
“we’d be a hell of a lot better off cutting the wages of our MP’s, to obtain the money, because quite frankly, the vast majority aren’t even worth paying the minimum wage to.”
We do waste a lot of money on Green and Labour MPs, don’t we. What do they actually do anyway, except, day after day, “Does he stand by his statements. Hee. Hee. Hee. Aren’t we smart with our tricky question. We are beltway gurus. Hee Hee”
Of course if they ‘close’ the school for just one hour in the middle of the day so it is impractical for students to leave then there is little difference.
Exactly, it’s the farcical ‘closing’ the school during normal hours that’s the problem – if a church group, scouts, guides, chess club, want to use school facilities at a modest cost after school hours, then no problem. Heavens, if a group wants to offer ‘Christian studies’ immediately after school for those families who want their children to attend, again, no problem. The others can go home at their normal time.
EAD (480 comments) says:
July 3rd, 2014 at 8:23 am,
from one of your links. Fundamentalist Christian Michael T Snyder with a raging and insane belief the world it about to end going to economic hell since 2007.
“….The Economic Collapse Blog plays to the heart strings of every survivalist, tax protester, extreme libertarian, and rapture-ready nut that can access the internet. The unfortunate part is that many cranks post the articles far and wide, to the groans of many people who have pointed out that time itself has proven all of the blogs posts over a year old (the longest time frame in Snyder’s prediction range) dead wrong. Driving people insane with these unrelenting articles about global failure is very encouraged by the author as well: “Please do not hesitate to spread these articles wherever you would like. I want as many people as possible to read them. Hopefully the things I write are helping a few more people to wake up….”
flipper yes to the rural areas. From my limited experience the issue is more with local than central Government with DOC running ‘interference’ in a most impractical way in some areas of the Coromandel after the recent flooding – some stories of sheer stupidity emerging such as boulders needing to be returned to the hills as though ‘natural’ events haven’t been bringing them down since the dawn of time.
Your trip to Wellington sounds very interesting. On the issue of JK it would be difficult not to agree, on which it must be noted that he remains the master of MMP and coalitions – another point of fine interest as the election looms.
Labour to this point have taken a sensible policy position on the ‘errant’ type cases of going in the British direction. They perhaps need a reminder about the Law Commission report from the 90s on compensation. You will have noted that the Bain JR has ‘slipped’ behind a couple of other notable JRs and will now be heard after the election. Will be a most important case if there is not a late ‘side step.’
stephie, i have a feeling if yoza’s assertion was that one Palestinian child was murdered in the past 13 years by israeli security forces you’d be asking for a source – emphasizing your disbelief with a couple of hefty question marks. And although accuracy is always the best policy, it is human suffering no matter the figure. There is masses of evidence to attest to these disgusting times and doing’s. Are you really so shut off to going and looking at the masses of evidence online for yourself. Many israeli kids are dead. Many Palestinian kids are dead. When will enough be enough.
It never ceases to amaze me at the lather religious types manage to work themselves into at the prospect of our schools becoming truly secular.
Are they that scared that once their kids are released from the burden of having to incessantly praise “God” they may work out for themselves that it is all a crock of shit?
It is my personal opinion that is should be illegal to infest the mind of any child with religious doctrine until they reach the age of maturity. At that stage the child, now having become an adult, would be free to take up any religion they deemed credible. The beauty of this idea is of course that very few (only the certifiable) would decide that religion had any part in their lives.
iMP – interesting to note where you’ve cut off the count of followers (it isn’t a poll). Laila Harre is significantly ahead of Craig in a much shorter time.
John Key 110,000
Russel Norman 11,500
David Cunliffe 9,926
Metiria Turei 8,873
Winston Peters 6,571
Peter Dunne 4,580
Laila Harre 3,425
Colin Craig 1,668
Pita Sharples 1,622
Tariana Turia 1,242
Jamie Whyte 682
* A Twitter account in Mana Party leader Hone Harawira’s name has 1420 followers, but has been idle since 2012 so has not been counted
This excludes Te Ururoa Flavell, he has 2,518 followers.
This doesn’t mean a lot. Twitter accounts accumulate followers over time so the longer it is active the more it is likely to have. It doesn’t mean “popularity” – I follow a number of politicians on Twitter. none for anything to do with popularity.
And it’s out of date, Cunliffe now has 10.6 k followers.
Israeli security forces murder Palestinian* children? Do you mean that the security forces plan to deliberately kill children? What possible reason could there be for a security force to liquidate children?
*Territories claimed by the PLO and recognized by the UN.
I have no doubt that children are killed in the operations of the security forces. (We can have a separate discussion of the reasons why this happens.)
Again the claim, “On average the Israeli security apparatus has killed one Palestinian child every three days for the last 13 years.”
That is a a highly general, bald and misleading assertion that needs to be backed up with some factual details, including were the said children killed and targeted intentionally and willfully ,as Yoza appears ( and you ) appear to be suggesting.?
Realizing as well that Hamas have created a notorious reputation for using civilians like women and children as human shields.!
human rights watches including israel’s B’Tselem have reports of Palestinian children deliberately targeted (shot and killed) by israeli forces, odakyu. Don’t ask me for links. I’ve read the suffering enough. Stephie, you’re not showing me anything i don’t know. Many times on this blog i have condemned acts of terrorism by both sides.
Yes, it is time (or will be post 20/9) to dust off the Law Comm report and implement the recommendations over the screams of the Gang in blue and CL/MoJ.
If the IB/DB issue is allowed to go to JR, I suspect a side step (also well after 9/20) is likely if the LC’s old report is resurrected.
In the meantime the police/CL face a mine field over the Malaysian, given the extent of political and MSM baying. It is interesting that a senior Malaysian Defence official will accompany the man to NZ…. and that the Malaysian Government will pay for his defence. This whole issue, I suspect, will also be effectively parked until post 9/20. Then there is another issue, and that is: What was the Police DPS doing?? They are supposed to handle all such matters, and they know who does or does not have immunity. So apart from MFAT, there is definitely Police incompetence at some level. Interesting.
1. Hon PHIL HEATLEY to the Minister of Finance: How will the Government’s fiscal management help to ensure interest rates will remain lower than they were in the previous economic cycle?
For a start we are TEAM KEY! Not Team Commie!
While pretending to give a shit about “ordinary new Zealanders” the last bunch allowed government spending to sky rocket. This pressure on inflation caused interest rates to rise so mortgages went through the roof, rents went up and no one was better off.
Basically the last government was complete shit. That includes Dung.
2. Hon PHIL GOFF to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in his Minister of Foreign Affairs; if so, why?
TEAM KEY has more confidence in Murray than your caucus had in you! Numb nuts.
You really piss me off goof ball. You’ve been here for 40 years, you know the rules but you don’t care how the game works. You’re just out for cheap points. This is why the electorate as a whole thinks you’re a jerk off.
3. MAGGIE BARRY to the Minister for the Environment: What recent announcements has she made aimed at improving our freshwater management system?
OMG are you serious? A gardening question from Maggy Barry? What a fucking embarrassment.
4. DAVID SHEARER to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Did he seek any information from MFAT officials on the case of the alleged assault with the intention to rape and waiver of diplomatic immunity by the Malaysian diplomat after his initial briefing on 10 May, 2014 and before the case became public; if not, why not?
Ah here we go. Mr “I don’t play gothcha politics” now playing gotcha politics with a sexual assault case! Maybe it’s time we sent you back to some shit hole. Maybe Afghanistan with “you only hate me cause im gay” carter.
5. EUGENIE SAGE to the Minister for the Environment: What percentage of river swimming sites, where data is collected, in the most recent Ministry for the Environment Suitability for Swimming Indicator Update were graded poor or very poor?
My god. WHO CARES??? You’re a fucking communist. The only reason you bring shit like this up is so you can demand more money from the tax payer to fix it and hopefully, just maybe you can shut down a business or two.
Go back to eating your root vegetable salad..the ones made with veges from your home garden.. that you shit in. eww.
6. TIM MACINDOE to the Minister of Education: What recent announcements has she made on Better Public Service Targets in education?
With a patsy question like that it’s almost like you’re part of TEAM KEY!
You mean he is? Seriously? Representing who? Hamilton West? BAHAHAHAHA
White with two thanks timmy
7. ANDREW WILLIAMS to the Minister of State Services: What assurances can he give the public of the competence of senior management in the Public Service?
What assurances can you give us that you aren’t infact the most unlikable cunt in New Zealand? You lost a SAFE seat! In your home town to a guy who grew up in Australia for all I know.
But seeing as though you’re a unionist who loves the public service, I’ll take the bait and hang some cunts out to dry!
TEAM KEYS confidence is one the wane! We are suspending ALL pay increases for the public service and firing a bunch. Across the board.
8. CHRIS HIPKINS to the Minister of Education: Is she satisfied that spending $359 million on the Investing in Educational Success Initiative is the best way to lift student achievement?
Well TEAM KEY was! Until YOU came out with this landmark policy of increasing funding by $100 a year. GENIUS!! Did you come up with it on your own?
If history has taught us anything, more money is always the answer! Especially if youre giving it to people too lazy to work.
9. PAUL FOSTER-BELL to the Minister of Health: What investment has the Government made in new training places for general practitioners?
10. CAROL BEAUMONT to the Minister for Social Development: What input did she have on the new suite of initiatives to prevent family violence and keep women and children safe that were announced yesterday?
TEAM KEY came up with all that good shit! But go on, try and take credit somehow!
Tell us how back in 2009 you gave a speech to four people at the local four square. Clearly we had a spy there and stole your ideas. You da man! You also look like a man!
11. BRENDAN HORAN to the Minister of Housing: What, if any, specific progress has he achieved on completing housing accords with Tauranga City Council and Western Bays District Council?
TEAM KEY likes you. Seriously, the balls on you to show up everyday. You’ve either got the biggest set in parliament besides Judith or you’re a fucking sociopath.
Wait, what’s that? You tick all the sociopath boxes? Ah well.
To answer your question, you’re not even showing up in local polls. You’re a joke. Get back to the track dude.
12. ANDREW LITTLE to the Minister of Labour: What steps, if any, are being taken to protect working New Zealanders from asbestos or products with asbestos in them?
Asbestos? Is this 1975? I know that’s where you get your ideology from.. asbestos is the least of your worries. NO ONE LIKES YOU!
stephieboy (1,889 comments) says:
July 3rd, 2014 at 10:45 am
“On average the Israeli security apparatus has killed one Palestinian child every three days for the last 13 years.”
Such a statistic is hardly controversial when considering the resources Israel has poured into slaughtering the indigenous population of the former Palestine. However, here is the story as it appears in Independent Catholic News.
flipper I agree about the Malaysian if there was ever a file to be dealt with at the highest levels this was it. The interesting aspect is who decided upon what without going higher, Labour will insist that it did go higher, or at least should have. They’ll be right about the latter at least, I expect some doors are being knocked on loudly at the moment. It boggles the imagination that if there was some plot toward silence that no consideration may have been given that the alleged victim could go public. I mentioned else where my bewilderment as to what could possibly be ‘complex’ about this event, add to that eye brows being raised that there could be any ‘comfort’ in a case being ‘tried’ overseas with the absence of a complainant appearing.
Pete George yes, but Laila has been around for 30 years, CC less than 3. As leader of the Internet Party, she’s probably had MEGA groupies patched in automatically. I’d expect her to top the poll, the supposed Internet drawing-in-new-voters party. Yeah Right.
Yoza that is an undiluted lie . Your link from this one below does not show that the Israeli forces have gone about willfully and intentionally killing children since 2,000 as was the case in e.g Nazi occupied Poland and the Soviet Union.
The willfulness and the intention is the vital point.The link does not provide any kind of context or detailed detailed analysis of the alleged “intentional” killings since 2,000.
All there is is stark propaganda as the juxtaposed photo of the Israeli soldier and child ably demonstrates .
My understanding is that every departmental CEO has a “no surprises” arrangement with his/her Minister etc.
The fact that this was buried, more or less, is cause for more than one head to roll.
But then…. there is today’s Parliamentary Order Paper. Shearer is claiming McCully was first briefed about it on May 10… But if Allen did not know until Friday last (June 27) something smells. It could be that his briefing on May 10 did not cover the Malaysian, but if it did, I smell both utter incompetence and set up. But it will all depend on what McCully was told.
The thing is such a mess that there should be sackings galore post 9/20.
Yoza, this link and not your Amnesty International report shows how both the PLO. Hamas and Hezbollh have used and abused children in innumerable combat contexts. This includes deployed and used as suicide bombers , human shields , the Avvium school bus massacre, ( 1970 ) The Ma a lot massacre ,( 1974 ) etc of Israeli children, transporting and ferrying weapons and munitions . Amnesty itself in 2005 condemned the Palestinian authorities for misusing children by recruiting them to fight in combat zones.
We can therefore say confidently that a large number of these Palestinian children killed since 2,000 have occurred in these conflict situations ,
“But media only focus on things that ‘fit the narrative’ ie diminished Arctic ice. Record Antarctic or above average Global not newsworthy.”
Record sea ice in Antarctica is not important because it is caused by the wind which is caused in turn by the global warming which sneaked past Argos and has now hiding in the deep ocean for the last 17 years where, ‘unfortunately’, we can’t measure it.
Our local ‘Global Warming’ (TM) expert Griff will come along very shortly and explain to you (In between the strawman, ad homs and other fallacies) why both more ice, less ice, warming, cooling, droughts and floods are all signs of ‘Global Warming’ (TM).
On the subject of religion the school I went to in UK had chapel every morning (7days in term).
Unless one took Divinity there was no other religious instruction.
It was the centre of the school and the Headmaster told me, very much later in life, that he judged the mood of the school on the singing in chapel. I think I still know the words still of most of the Hymns.
But it was founded by a Bishop and Lord Chief Justice so had only followed this pattern for now 450 years.
Now in my twilight years I still remember the standards we learned, not taught, from those mornings.
It continues still today – the renovated chapel being over 240 years old.
I have remembered the foundations of the school chapel the whole of my life.
At the rate of deaths of Palestine kids is to be believed then their parents and propagandists are deliberately putting them in harms way. That is a pretty cynical policy. If a soldier is walking down a street carrying a weapon you don’t provoke him. The Palestinians need a Ghandi not a gun or indiscriminant rocket attacks, use of that is a war crime when you have no intention of targeting so called legitimate targets.
Tangata whenua will be re-empowered to lead the growth of te reo Maori as a result of a raft of changes outlined in the new Maori Language Strategy. Maori Affairs Minister Pita Sharples says the strategy, launched on Thursday, makes significant changes to the current system.
It will be recognised in law that the Maori language is a taonga of Maori and iwi, and that they are the guardians of the language. In addition, a new independent governance entity, Te Matawai, will be established and charged with guiding the Crown’s strategy for te reo Maori.
At the rate of deaths of Palestine kids is to be believed then their parents and propagandists are deliberately putting them in harms way. That is a pretty cynical policy. If a soldier is walking down a street carrying a weapon you don’t provoke him. The Palestinians need a Ghandi not a gun or indiscriminant rocket attacks, use of that is a war crime when you have no intention of targeting so called legitimate targets.
It’s not actually accurate to say that “1500 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis”. Sometimes it’s things like unexploded shells in areas where Palestinian kids are playing, etc., rather than kids getting shot by soldiers because they “provoke them”, whatever you mean by that.
Ryan Sproull 1.52pm , but also as my above post shows recruited to transport weapons and munitions for PLO , Hamas and Hezbollah suicide bombers and hunan shields.
More here about the condemning of Amnesty and its ability to operate impartially and objectively in Israel, Gaza etc ,
I am all for giving the Arabs-Muslims another state in the Middle East as soon as the Arabs-Muslims give Medina back to the Jews and compensate them for the massacre of the Banu Qurayza , the Banu Nadir and all the land confiscated in the last 1300 years.
I am “all grown up” I just want to know about Other Andy’s global conspiracy of scientists
Its his conspiracy that he spends hours posting about here and all over the web. I thought he could share the details.
After all he posts on bishop hill , hot topic the daily blog and others about his global conspiracy of scientist so he must know all the details
Moon bats don’t particularly interest me… . But I can see how you get confused .
Labours justice spowesman Andrew Little has called for a criminal cases review commission to be established in NZ, may happen if labour win, if this is established then victims of injustice like Watson and Pora would not have been rotting in jail for 20 years, He could hardly be any worse as justice minister than the arrogant tax lawyer!! however he is unlikely to swing the wheel labours way, I would certainly still have Key over Cunliffe any day of the week so Littles promises not enough to changemy vote, that and almost every policy proposed by the Greens!
Still not going to explain your global conspiracy other andy with an s Are you ashamed to actually place you beliefs about the global scientific community and the massive conspiracy your stand point on global warming must encompass down for me to laugh at ?
by the way wingnut is defined as .
Being a wingnut requires a particularly paranoid worldview, teetering on the edge of or falling wholesale into tinfoil hat territory, as wingnuttery causes the victim to refuse to accept any source of information that doesn’t back up their prejudices (essentially, wingnuts are almost always authoritarian as well as being politically right-wing). Constant gibbering about the “liberal media” as well as a slavish devotion to cognitive dissonance, conspiracy theories, global warming denialism, psychological projection
loved the projection in your last post wingnut
Cap fits you far better than it does me other andy
“Sooner of latter that ……….. will be serving time in jail.”
Next time (if there is a next time) it will be his ‘first’ conviction, even though he pleaded guilty to burglary and theft on this occasion.That means he’s unlikely be going to jail on his first conviction, even as a repeat offender.
Over at the Standard “Karol” is posting on Jan Logies parliamentary questions about the diplomat and it is all about rape culture. The strange thing about that case is why a member of a diplomatic staff would be so dumb/ hard up. It wouldn’t be his Muslim culture let loose on the west would it? http://thestandard.org.nz/why-did-you-not-ask-apologies-culture/
Gulag1917 (564 comments) says:
July 3rd, 2014 at 4:26 pm
John Key Quotes
Great link. Real guy, cares, family man, did well financially, likes rugby, loves Aotearoa New Zealand (& that’s the first time I’ve used that descriptor) & kiwis. No hate in him.
This statement today. Clears things up, lays down the law, supports those that warrant it. A leader & manager. By far the best & only choice for NZPM, anyone thinks otherwise is quite frankly deluded. Or just nasty.
Adjunct to my comment above – “By far the best & only choice for NZPM,”
With National having Parliamentary support from 10 or so ACT, Conservative & Maori MP’s, and 6 Greens (if we can find those 6 that aren’t Commies.
Talking about shooting moa – maybe it could be like me and a mate of mine, many years ago, returning from a hunt when we got no deer, but saw 2 turkeys perched on fence posts – as they are wont to do. We only had our .303’s – so we lined them up – …3..2..1 bang. 2 turkey heads flew into the air, and 2 nice big fat untouched turkeys went into our respective families’ pots that nite – actually, ovens. yum yum.
So any gun or rifle will do – just hit them in the right spot.
A nun walks into Mother Superior’s office and plunks down into a chair. She lets out a sigh heavy with frustration.
“What troubles you, Sister?” asks the Mother Superior. “I thought this was the day you spent with your family.”
“It was,” sighed the Sister. “And I went to play golf with my brother. We try to play golf as often as we can. You know I was quite a talented golfer before I devoted my life to Christ.” “I seem to recall that,” the Mother Superior agreed. “So I take It your day of recreation was not relaxing?” “Far from it,”snorted the Sister. “In fact, I even took the Lord’s name in vain today!”
“Goodness, Sister!” gasped the Mother Superior, astonished. “You must tell me all about it!”
“Well, we were on the fifth tee… and this hole is a monster, Mother – 540 yard Par 5, with a nasty dogleg left and a hidden green… and I hit the drive of my life. I creamed it. The sweetest swing I ever made. And it’s flying straight and true, right along the line I wanted… and it hits a bird in mid-flight not 100 yards off the tee!”
“Oh my !” commiserated the Mother. “How unfortunate! But surely that didn’t make you blaspheme, Sister!”
“No, that wasn’t it,” admitted Sister. “While I was still trying to fathom what had happened, this squirrel runs out of the woods, grabs my ball and runs off down the fairway!” “Oh, that would have made me blaspheme!” sympathised Mother.
“But I didn’t, Mother Superior!” sobbed the Sister. “And I was so proud of myself! And while I was pondering whether this was a sign from God, this hawk swoops out of the sky and grabs the squirrel and flies off, with my ball still clutched in his paws!” “So that’s when you cursed,” said the Mother with a knowing smile.
“Nope, that wasn’t it either,” cried the Sister, anguished, “because as the hawk started to fly out of sight, the squirrel started struggling, and the hawk dropped him right there on the green, and the ball popped out of his paws and rolled to about 18 inches from the cup!”
Mother Superior sat back in her chair, folded her arms across her chest, fixed the Sister with a baleful stare and said…
Two NZ sheep farmers are flying the mob to a new farm. Suddenly, the engine fails and the plane begins to fall quickly to the ground.
SH1: “Quick! Grab a parachute and jump!”
SH2: “What about the sheep ?!?”
SH1: “Bugger the sheep !!!!”
SH2: (pause) “Do you think we have time?”
I am astounded that there hasn’t been more outrage about the appalling apartheid judicial system we have when a 19 year old criminal has got away without conviction because of his family connections!! This is outrageous. The heir to a nonsensical ‘throne’- tosh.
A man buys several sheep, hoping to breed them for wool. After several weeks, he notices that none of the sheep are getting pregnant, and calls a vet for help. The vet tells him that he should try artificial insemination. The guy doesn’t have the slightest idea what this means but, not wanting to display his ignorance, only asks the vet how he will know when the sheep are pregnant. The vet tells him that they will stop standing around and will, instead, lay down and wallow in the grass when they are pregnant. The Man hangs up and gives it some thought. He comes to the conclusion that artificial insemination means
he has to impregnate the sheep. So, he loads the sheep into his truck, drives them out into the woods, has sex with them all, brings them back and goes to bed.
Next morning, he wakes and looks out at the sheep. Seeing that they are all still standing around, he concludes that the first try didn’t take, and loads them in the truck again. He drives them out to the woods, bangs each sheep twice for good measure, brings them back and goes to bed.
Next morning, he wakes to find the sheep still just standing around. One more try, he tells himself, and proceeds to load them up and drive them out to the woods. He spends all day serving the sheep and, upon returning home, falls listlessly into bed.
The next morning, he cannot even raise himself from the bed to look at the sheep. He asks his wife to look
out and tell him if the sheep are lying in the grass. “No,” she says, “they’re all in the truck and one of
them’s honking the horn.”
A Welshman is being interviewed for a survivalist magazine…….
“If you were shipwrecked on a desert island, what’s the one thing you’d like with you Griff?”
“Nice. All that lovely roast lamb, mutton broth and some delicious chops will keep you going for ages. Plus the fleece will keep you warm, you can make tools from the bones and you could use the skin for a hammock.”
A jackeroo in Australia was out checking farm fences in his ute when he hit something. He radioed the homestead for advice.
“There’s a pig stuck in the bullbars and is still alive but he’s
kicking and squealing so much I can’t get him free” he said.
“Okay,” said the boss. “In the back of the ute there’s a .303. Put it up to the pig’s head and shoot it. When its body goes all limp you’ll be able to get it off the bullbars and throw it into the bush.”
About 45 minutes later the jackeroo called in again, “I did what you said, “Boss. I shot the pig in the head, he went all limp and I got him out of the bullbars, no problem. But I still can’t go on.”
“Why not?” asked the boss. “What’s the problem?”
“Well it’s his motorbike … the flashing blue light is jammed under
““I am astounded that there hasn’t been more outrage about the appalling apartheid judicial system”
While I am the first person to ask for one law for all, and, also appalled at the judge for letting this thug go without a criminal conviction I do think that we need a bit of a reality check.
There are plenty of young white kids (who come from well off families) discharged without conviction every week in this country. One only has to think back a couple of years to the Dunedin student street mini riots and remember the fall out when most of those little shits where discharged without conviction because of the effect it might have had on their future careers.
So guys, if we do want one law for all then we simply have to cut the Maori Kings son the same slack as we cut the sons of lawyers, doctors and other professional people.
That is after all what one law for all is all about.
You cants are the deniers. The records are showing you sea level rise after adjustments for movements is only 1mm/yr. No warming in the satellite record for more than 15 years. Models out by a huge factor. When you call me a denier I only point back at you and laugh. You’ve got nothing, so you resort to smears. Loser
It just ain’t happening, and all the fucking about with the records only makes your guys look desperate. You’re the “denialists”. It’s not even a real word, dick.
Somebody should plot a graph to show us how much warming has occurred since pre-industrial times vs the increase in anthropogenic atmospheric CO2.
1 degree per doubling of CO2… my God but that makes me shit my pants (laughing so hard does that to me)
“There are plenty of young white kids (who come from well off families) discharged without conviction every week in this country. One only has to think back a couple of years to the Dunedin student street mini riots and remember the fall out when most of those little shits where discharged without conviction because of the effect it might have had on their future careers.”
Even if one accepts your broad premise above (it’s far too sweeping, arguably), that’s all very well. But inebriated students playing up in public on the streets of Dunedin (probably a mix of ethnicities, incidentally, even though you assume they’re “young white kids”) are a bit different from someone charged with two counts of burglary and one of theft – all three charges admitted in Court by the defendant – plus a very serious DIC charge relating to an incident in which innocent people could have been killed on the roads. I want to hear a better justification than you have offered so far for this discharge without conviction. The parallel you draw by way of example is unconvincing.
You also say that the Dunedin students you refer to were “discharged without conviction because of the effect it might have had on their future careers”. What’s the career of the Maori King’s son? Do you – and the District Court Judge – view the hereditary role of “Maori King” as an occupational career?
“Even if one accepts your broad premise above (it’s far too sweeping, arguably), that’s all very well. But inebriated students playing up in public on the streets of Dunedin (probably a mix of ethnicities, incidentally, even though you assume they’re “young white kids”) are a bit different from someone charged with two counts of burglary and one of theft – all three charges admitted in Court by the defendant – plus a very serious DIC charge relating to an incident in which innocent people could have been killed on the roads. I want to hear a better justification than you have offered so far for this discharge without conviction. The parallel you draw by way of example is unconvincing.”
Unconvincing???, that comment of yours is nothing more than a long winded excuse for the appalling behaviour of rich white kids. You also infer that the courts were right to discharge those same white kids. You then (in an amazing demonstration of hypocrisy) go on to demand those same courts impose the full force of the law on a young brown kid.
Of course, if that is what you believe then fine, knock yourself out, but please, do not ever let me ever read a comment from you where you demand one law for all.
“You also say that the Dunedin students you refer to were “discharged without conviction because of the effect it might have had on their future careers”. What’s the career of the Maori King’s son? Do you – and the District Court Judge – view the hereditary role of “Maori King” as an occupational career?”
That comment simply confirms what I have already said in this post. In your world you are perfectly happy to defend discharges without conviction for white kids (and they were almost entirely white kids who were discharged without conviction in the Dunedin riots) if they happen to be perusing careers that you deem acceptable, yet you will not offer the same opportunity to a young brown man.
Now to your straw man argument, It matters not what the career of the Maori Kings son is, or might be. To even raise this as an argument proves that you do not truly believe in one law for all. As it happens my opinions on the validity of the Maori King, or his son, are irrelevant, that is not the issue, nor was it the premise of my original comment.
So Calendar Girl, if you really believe in one law for all (as manifestly unjust as that law may be) then you simply have to support the actions taken by this court in discharging the son of the Maori King without conviction. Perhaps I need to repeat my first comment on this matter lest you start frothing at the mouth and accusing me of being a hand wringing liberal, or an apologist for Maori violence and criminal behaviour. I am now, and will remain, disgusted that the courts discharged this young man without conviction, however, if we really do want one law for all then we have to applaud this judge and his actions.
However, if you (and one or two other who have commented) want the law to continue as it is, continuing to discharge without conviction rich white kids whilst criminalising poor brown kids for the same, or very similar crimes then at least be brave enough to admit that is what you want. So far your have offered nothing but a slightly racist argument in support of apartheid justice.
One law for all means just that, nothing more or nothing less.
As usual, your views are extreme and far too generalised. Nobody can have a reasoned or reasonable debate with you because you’re always right, and and you insist on shouting down those with contrary views.
There are multiple aspects of what you are claiming that are open to serious evaluation, with facts, and without the ‘rich white kids’ kind of emotional distortions. Waste of time with you, though.
But for the record, don’t suggest that I’m not for ‘one law for all’ (I am) or that I’m prepared to make distinctions between defendants on the basis of race (I’m not). The arbitrary ‘discharge without conviction’ procedure is always misplaced, in my view. Any judicial leniency is available to be applied – where appropriate – at the time of sentencing, with proper justification from the Bench. Beyond that, criminal charges that meet the tests of the law should result in conviction.
“As usual, your views are extreme and far too generalised. Nobody can have a reasoned or reasonable debate with you because you’re always right, and and you insist on shouting down those with contrary views.”
My god!, next you will be telling me that you feel “threatened”, or “offended” by the language I use. I will not hold back simply because your own argument does not, and cannot, hold water.
“But for the record, don’t suggest that I’m not for ‘one law for all’ (I am) ”
Then at least attempt to demonstrate that by way of an argument. Nothing you have said so far on the subject can be construed as anything other than support for an apartheid justice system.