General Debate 8 July 2014

July 8th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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69 Responses to “General Debate 8 July 2014”

  1. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    It’s easy to sell a smaller class size policy. On the surface it seems a no-brainer. First points to Labour (and the teacher unions).

    But would pupils and their parents choose (smaller) class size over the quality of teacher?

    I know from my own experience as a pupil, and as a parent of pupils, that in hoping for or pushing for a particular class the teacher was always the primary consideration.

    Would I choose a poor teacher with a class of 20 or a great teacher with a class of 25? 30?

    If parents and pupils could choose their class then crap teachers would have tiny classes and the best teachers would have the biggest classes.

    Teacher quality versus class size will be an interesting debate through this election campaign.

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  2. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    “……Teacher quality versus class size will be an interesting debate through this election campaign…..’

    Quite so Pete.

    Yesterday on that list DPF posted:

    74. Principals and leaders.

    The list was about the factors that help children the most in education.

    Now Key has to tell us why he’s spending so much extra money paying principals and leaders at No.74 – bucketloads more!

    “I’m a conservative” – J Key.

    Prove it. :cool:

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  3. Dave Mann (1,218 comments) says:

    @igm: Paul Davidson is no worse than any other member of his profession. They are all a bunch of lying unsavoury bastards who prostitute themselves, so what’s special about this one? I have no brief for CrimDotCon…. but this Davidson character does seem to be doing rather well for his client, don’t you think? :-D

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  4. Paulus (2,626 comments) says:

    Hope Davidson is getting paid up front for the delays in the DotCrim case.

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  5. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    David Cunliffe will be disappointed by the Stuff poll on the 2000 new teachers/small class sizes policy announcement. The Greens have welcomed the policy, yet the number of people who think it will make either a major or moderate impact on outcomes is significantly less than the combined Labour/Green vote across polls.

    If Mr Cunliffe can’t take his own supporters with him, what hope does he have convincing floating voters?

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/a-game-changing-policy-maybe-not.html

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  6. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Tuwangawaewae for sale

    An island in the Far North is back on the market – even though the owners may never had approval to buy it in the first place.

    The Overseas Investment Office (OIO) has spent almost four years investigating whether the sale of Motukawaiti Island, about 30km north of Kerikeri, went through without its consent in 2010.

    Since then, the owner has been threatened with liquidation and the property taken over by the mortgage holder, who is now advertising it to an exclusive global market for $30 million.

    In August 2010, the island was sold to a company called St Morris NZ Limited, whose director is Wenning Han.

    Last year the mortgage holder on the property – Jun Zhang – applied to put St Morris NZ Ltd into liquidation, claiming the company owed him $16 million.

    That application was struck out, but ownership of the property was transferred to Mr Zhang in August.

    OIO spokesperson Annelies McClure said in a statement it could not comment because that would impede the ongoing investigation.

    However, it confirmed two staff had worked on the investigation since November 2010.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/249192/oio-still-looking-at-island%27s-ownership
    The General election looks like a choice between Harcourts Shanghai and the Sisterhood?

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  7. EAD (1,072 comments) says:

    It is interesting to note how many of National’s press releases are self-congratulatory messages proclaiming that they’ve spent more money on something or other as if spending money we have to borrow is somehow a measure of success? Like an individual, any fool can borrow spend it on something and say “look at how wonderful I am” for having spent someone elses money.

    The problem is that all of the goodies the Socialists give out, the gains are highly visible whereas the losses are widely dispersed and hidden via inflation and taxes. Few have any direct experience or understanding of how much prosperous we would be outside a socialist state (that’s why at the extreme in Soviet Russia, China, North Korea etc, contact with the then capitalist West had to be limited).

    National’s sole principle seems to be that power must be obtained by convincing the Public that their version of Socialism is better than Labours. All the below sounds great and if you are forced to argue against the below on “twitter” or “facebook” it’d be hard to forward an argument in an environment with short attention spans (maybe that’s why forums like here are popular)

    https://www.national.org.nz/news/news/media-releases/detail/2014/07/03/record-number-of-new-gp-trainees
    https://www.national.org.nz/news/news/media-releases/detail/2014/06/30/more-support-from-today-to-meet-housing-needs
    https://www.national.org.nz/news/news/media-releases/detail/2014/06/30/rotavirus-vaccine-free-from-today
    https://www.national.org.nz/news/news/media-releases/detail/2014/06/29/creative-industries-pathway-launched

    The National Party would do well to put it’s trust back in the people and remember he who governs least, governs best.

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  8. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock says at 8:28 am

    “If Mr Cunliffe can’t take his own supporters with him, what hope does he have convincing floating voters?”

    I can’t believe a political savvy person like you gets it wrong.
    He IS taking his supporters.
    His supporters, the ones that backed him financially and voted for him to become leader, are the unions.
    This was payback for two of the militant unions of old, the PPTA and the NZEI.
    As for the Labour voters……..

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  9. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Lecher Len the Ratepayers’ Friend has really screwed voters this time. So long as everyone has the vote in local body elections, we will get these self serving, delusional bastards in power. We must revert to ratepayers only, having the vote, not the likes of Penny Bright and State house dwellers.

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  10. Keeping Stock (10,337 comments) says:

    Actually Andy, the teacher unions seem not to actually directly fund Labour with cash in the same way that EPMU, SFWU and others do. But there is little doubt that this policy is a sap to the unions, and was probably written by NZEI.

    To its credit, PPTA is actually prepared to step outside its bubble and work with the Government on the Investing in Educational Success policy, and that is most welcome. You’ll seldom see me praise a union, but PPTA deserves credit for actually engaging on a policy which will benefit both its members and the students they teach.

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  11. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Dime doesnt know why he does this to himself..

    but was listening to ZB this morning.

    First of all, susan wood had a guy on who blows into straws to make sound. that’s it. i shit you not. she cackled away like he was a genius. a low point in new zealand radio.

    Then she starts crapping on about “inequality” (which wasnt a problem when she was on 500 stacks a year). She keeps telling the same stat – the top 9 billionaires in aussie have the same net worth as the bottom 1.34 million households.. apparently thats dangerous. then she states “the sad thing is, the people in the bottom 1.34 million households dont even realise there is inequality, they thing they are normal”.

    what a fucking moron.

    thats on top of yesterdays “ive been getting abuse from people on the left & right this morning. that must mean im doing a good job”. no, it means youre a shit head and no one can stand you.

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  12. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    @KS

    No, maybe not with cash handouts but they spend a lot of cash and manpower to campaign for Labour and against National.

    Have a look at their website:

    Labour’s education policies will raise quality teaching and learning
    Smaller class sizes will be a big boost to student learning
    Laptops for students will help level the playing field
    Minister out of touch on school donations
    Teachers and principals welcome Labour’s plans to address inequality in education

    http://www.nzei.org.nz/

    And if you think this is purely about education, cast your mind back when they campaigned against asset sales.

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  13. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    Ead,

    National tends to govern by select committee, which then holds them hostage to every matter conceivable that the left raises through the public consultation process.

    National then directs ‘resources’ based upon the ‘state of the national economy’ to the issues raised. They then say they are being pragmatic in an MMP enviroment. The public tend to swallow that.

    They have no over-arching national narrative other than ‘the economy’, which means they govern from day to day, and the issues the left raises from that. Keating said you need a narrative so as to carry the public with you.

    They don’t really say what they are doing. And they don’t stand for anything. They waste government, it’s staff, and it’s funding.

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  14. EAD (1,072 comments) says:

    Brandon Smith ask on SHTF plan – is the cloward-piven strategy being used to destroy America. http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/is-the-cloward-piven-strategy-being-used-to-destroy-america_07032014

    For those who don’t know what cloward-piven is, it is the strategy that would overwhelm the country’s economic system by making so many people dependent upon the state, it would cause an economic crash that would usher in Socialism ass they Private sector would be so destroyed from regulations the unsustainable burden to support an ever expanding welfare state:

    When you look at Obama opening the borders to destitute Latinos and promising them free everything, “conspiracy theory” suddenly seems to become “conspiracy fact”

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/07/07/Leaked-Internal-DHS-Report-Admits-Lack-of-Deportation-Significant-Factor-in-Border-Crisis

    I look at our ever-growing welfare role including families earning over $200k and wonder if we’re being deliberately “cloward-pivented” ourselves:

    http://www.workingforfamilies.govt.nz/tax-credits/

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  15. G152 (336 comments) says:

    I see Crim dot Con will be with us for a while yet..
    Nice to see our justice system racing to get past the snails.
    Not

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  16. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    See Slitherer Little reckons police are keeping charges down to enhance their clearance stats. Hope he has a run in with O’Connor on this Labour lie. Labour are coming through as the filth of society, lying and self-serving mongrels.

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  17. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    Harriet, are you implying that you would see select committees abolished especially the kind you find disagreeable. Select Committees in fact form an incredibly important part of our democracy where both opposition and government MPs have a chance to give a more considered and measured response to government legislative changes and proposals. Not forgetting submission also from the public on legislative changes and proposals .
    Are you presenting your theocratic agenda proposals that would see the select committee proposal abolished .!
    You also haven’t a clue how consensus politics work which is exactly what is happening at the moment which doesn’t happen to include your far right leaning agenda.
    The poor polling of the C P would indicate such.!

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  18. Redbaiter (8,801 comments) says:

    Communists constantly calling those who oppose them far right.

    What a joke.

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  19. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “Are you presenting your theocratic agenda”

    Nobody has a theocratic agenda Stephie. Look the word up.

    “The poor polling of the C P would indicate such.!”

    Last poll they were on 2.8% Given that National’s popularity is squeezing out competition on the Right that’s not a bad result.

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  20. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    Redbaiter , and would it be fair to call those like you who support your views Neo Nazi or Fascist. ?

    The lunacy behind the alleged Obama Conspiracy the death of Andrew Breibart,

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/people-who-think-president-obama-killed-andrew-bre

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  21. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “Communists constantly calling those who oppose them far right.

    What a joke.”

    Kinda like you calling Key supporters traitors, progs, and closet liberals.

    Yup, a joke.

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  22. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    I find both Stephie and Red to be much of a muchness. Both use very similar rhetorical tactics. One screams “racist” at anyone who opposes Obama, the other screams “communist” at anyone who supports Key.

    The two of you should get together for a date. :)

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  23. EAD (1,072 comments) says:

    “Far Right” is probably the most intellectually lazy term I’ve ever heard. What they mean is “nationalist”.

    A headline in the Hooooorald said they suspected a “far-right” Israeli individual was suspected of murdering a Palestinian boy in a reprisal attack on the murder of 3 Jewish youths.

    Despite not knowing who murdered this boy, at least the Hooooorald has assured us that all those who value free markets, liberty, free speech and minimal government (i.e. the opposite of “far-right” Hitler) in our lives are likely to be responsible for said murder.

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  24. kowtow (8,439 comments) says:

    Yesterday there was a post on equality of outcomes.

    Here we have an example of how out of control “equality” has become. In the Uk ,one of our basic freedoms ,freedom of belief without interference from the state is now over ruled by “equality” legislation.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10952494/Bert-and-Ernie-gay-marriage-cake-leaves-Christian-bakery-facing-court-threat.html

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  25. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    Shawn,

    The current KB Curia Public Poll Average poll puts the Conservatives at 1.5%,.

    Redbaiter is that , a joke.!

    Simple really.

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  26. Ross12 (1,425 comments) says:

    Is this the start of market forces helping reduce house price rises in Auckland ?

    https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/24405942/aucklands-financial-future-looking-bleak/

    That is, it’ll be getting too expensive for everyone so they’ll look for alternatives out of town.

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  27. emmess (1,428 comments) says:

    I see that dickhead Len Brown is prepared to ruin Auckland for his trainset

    Yay, out of control rates, more congestion and dilapidated parks for a massive vanity project.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11289315

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  28. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    The NZ Herald Editors pick (What a surprise):

    Gingers face extinction due to climate change, scientists warn

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11289535

    Is there anything the extra 50 parts per million of CO2 in the atmosphere can’t do?

    Apparently not:

    Climate Change Makes it Hard for Fish to Tell Friend from Foe

    http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/7874/20140702/climate-change-makes-it-hard-for-fish-to-tell-friend-from-foe.htm

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  29. Griff (7,683 comments) says:

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/man-charged-killing-girlfriend-s-baby-named-6021581
    Man charged with killing girlfriend’s baby named
    Charlie Lackner can now be named after a suppression order was discontinued when he appeared in the High Court in Hamilton this morning to face the charge.

    The baby, Cassius Takiari, died in Starship Children’s Hospital on June 16, a day after being admitted with critical injuries.

    photo
    http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/national_news/2014/07/charlie_lackner_in_court_N2.jpg

    No surprises at all there

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  30. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Yeah Dime is shocked. Another warrior beats a baby to death.

    But back to the important issues! Treaty Settlements!

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  31. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    I sincerely hope RD1 realise the damage the little leftie McKay is doing to their business. So long as they advertise around his socialist hyperbole the less inclined a lot of us are to use their stores. Farmlands, PGGF, etc., are all in the surrounds, not appearing to support this little leech.

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  32. ciaron (1,431 comments) says:

    Kowtow, they should have asked if the client had Joan Ganz Cooney’s written permission to use the image :)

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  33. Fletch (6,367 comments) says:

    Weirdness this morning on TV One’s Good Morning show. The two lesbian winners of the Australian version of My Kitchen Rules, Carly and Tresne, were on (and of course Ginette was praising their coming out as being ‘married’ and saying “New Zealand needs more of this”).

    So, before they start cooking, the one with the longer hair takes salt (I think it is salt but it could be some other condiment) and makes a “circle of empowerment” on the floor in the studio for both of them to stand in, so that (as she says) “their cooking may be successful”.

    So, we had a full dose on morning TV today – gay, married, and possibly witches (or new agers).

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  34. mandk (992 comments) says:

    Fletch,
    Your post reminds me why I gave up watching real time TV 8 years ago.
    You should try it, too.
    Most things worth watching can be viewed on demand.
    You can stream many sporting events like the World Cup and the Olympics.
    And if you want to view live rugby, it’s better to watch it at the pub anyway.

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  35. cricko (330 comments) says:

    I must be a little slow this morning but how does this work ?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11289589

    How does his son have a different surname ?

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  36. Fletch (6,367 comments) says:

    mandk, yeh I wasn’t actually watching watching. Just flicked it on as I was eating breakfast.

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  37. mister nui (1,027 comments) says:

    Good article on Cunliffe and the mess that is Labour, by Bob Jones.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503423&objectid=11289443

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  38. Griff (7,683 comments) says:

    http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/marijuana-shop-licences-issue-in-washington-state-6022010
    Marijuana shop licences issue in Washington state

    Published: 12:49PM Tuesday July 08, 2014 Source: AP

    Washington state issued its first retail marijuana licences a day before the start of legal sales, and 21 hours before the only store licenced to sell in Seattle was set to open, a line was already forming.

    When will we have a referendum?
    The war on drugs has failed and the real thing is safer than the crap we experimented with.

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  39. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    It’s easy to sell a smaller class size policy. On the surface it seems a no-brainer.

    How about this argument Pete:

    Say you have a good teacher who spends 30% of his time on paperwork and 70% of his time teaching. With a smaller class he now spends 25% of his time on paperwork and 75% of his time teaching.

    Would the kids benefit?

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  40. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Fletch says:

    “mandk, yeh I wasn’t actually watching watching. Just flicked it on as I was eating breakfast.”

    That figures.
    They were wondering why their ratings went up by 10% this morning.

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  41. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Scott Chris – yes, kids should benefit from that. They would also benefit if the class was smaller still and the teacher spent 90% of their time teaching and 10% of their time on paperwork.

    People who do the budgets have to work out where the money is best spent.

    Say you have a crap teacher who now spends 25% instead of 30% of their time on paperwork – do the kids benefit?

    Say you have five teachers, one a top teacher, two mediocre teachers, one new teacher who isn’t very effective and one crap teacher who is very good at paperwork.

    What if they pooled their abilities and experience and all worked to their strengths as much as possible, sharing classes? The good administrator could do the bulk of the paperwork, the mediocre teachers could do routine teaching, and the excellent teacher could inspire the pupils and focus on the most gifted and most difficult kids and mentor the beginner teacher.

    Under the system I’m familiar with if you were lumbered with a so-so or a crap teacher you had to put up with that for a year and hope you drew a better straw the next year.

    I got two years with a mediocre teacher simply so I wasn’t in the same class as my older sister two years in a row.

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  42. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    The Conservatives just reported another $500,000 donation to help their cause. Nice.

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  43. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “Shawn,

    The current KB Curia Public Poll Average poll puts the Conservatives at 1.5%,.

    Redbaiter is that , a joke.!

    Simple really.”

    Stephie, you both are. Seriously, you with your accusations of racism towards anyone on the hard Right, or who opposes Obama’s dodgy policies, and Red with his “your all communists” attacks on Key supporters. What’s the difference?

    An average is just that, an average. The indications are that they are rising, and that they will run a good campaign. I won’t be voting for them myself, but I would like to see them in Parliament. Your insinuation that the Conservatives are racists is just as dumb as Red’s claim that everyone who supports Key is a traitor and a commie.

    On those issues, your BOTH a joke.

    Simple really.

    That said, unlike Red I think your a nice enough chap, and I applaud you for standing up to the Jew haters and for having a go at Yowza for his soft soaping Communist crimes.

    Red on the other hand is not a nice chap, and seems in desperate need of a wrap around jacket and a rubber room.

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  44. ciaron (1,431 comments) says:

    What’s with the Asian dating sites on the side bar David?
    Did they give you a trial membership or something :)

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  45. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “What’s with the Asian dating sites David?
    Did they give you a trial membership or something :)”

    I never see those? maybe google is trying to tell you something? :D

    i seem to get hooker ads? its like its read my web history..

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  46. ciaron (1,431 comments) says:

    do you know if can I post a screen capture into a comment Dime?
    don’t want you to be missing out.

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  47. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    and I get business sites, and accounting offers etc.

    Goes to show who is ‘purest’ ’round here! :-)

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  48. wreck1080 (3,905 comments) says:

    Anyone seen the supposed video of the maori kings son currently doing the rounds?

    Interesting, if it is him. Not exactly the picture of meekness as portrayed in the recent news.

    I reckon he’ll be before the courts again sometime in future unless he gives up the alcohol.

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  49. Griff (7,683 comments) says:

    The browser posts add content on your prior history.

    Dime gets hookers and flash cars.

    I get adverts for tractor tires and fostering kids.

    Harry it probably gets a gay dating site.

    fuck knows were you have been surfing.

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  50. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    Sorry to break it but some very, very sad news,

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10241671/Dotcoms-extradition-hearing-delayed

    The circus will have to wait rill Feb 2015.

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  51. Griff (7,683 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11289856
    A video of the Maori King’s son has emerged showing him making an expletive-laden rant.

    A source within Waikato Tainui confirmed the young man in the video, who claims he is a top kapa haka leader, is Korotangi Paki – the Maori King’s middle child and younger son.

    The video has already had close to 800 shares on Facebook and is likely to be of further embarrassment to Mr Paki’s father King Tuheitia.

    A tribal source believes the video was likely taken about two years ago, around the time when Mr Paki was with Te Wharekura o Rakaumanga kapa haka side that competed at the national secondary school school championships in Whangarei.

    The source said Mr Paki was his school’s kaitataki tane (male leader in a kapa haka group) but was kicked out of the team for bad behaviour while on the trip and sent home.

    In the 25 second video, Mr Paki says; “rubbish c###, rubbish…I’m the f###### man boy. I’ll f###### show you how to lead a f###### roopu (group) boy, I’ll f###### show you what the f### is up c###.

    I’m the f####### kaitataki f###### tane (male leader)..o te motu boy. I’m the f###### man, I’ll show you what is f###### up c###.”

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  52. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Griff – bit of a beat up eh!

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  53. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    A recent twitter from sidebar

    @dpfdpf
    Latest income stats show child povert rate has fallen 3% since 2011.

    Given that children generally don’t have an independent income, it makes me laugh when I see reports that come up with conclusions like this.

    Just because the parents income has increased, or the reverse, dropped, doesn’t mean the children involved are affected. One of the problems we have with child poverty in New Zealand, is not that the parent’s are not getting sufficient income, but how that income is utilised to provide children with the deemed essentials of life.

    Even the odd millionaires children have been known to suffer from material neglect, when the parent just doesn’t see it their responsibility to provide.

    The problem isn’t necessarily the amount of money – its how its being spent. For some the need is genuine, their rent/mortgage etc is too high, and so the kids miss out – but for others, those who deem their own enjoyment more valuable than their childrens needs, its not income level that the cause – its plain shitty parenting.

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  54. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    Say you have a crap teacher who now spends 25% instead of 30% of their time on paperwork – do the kids benefit?

    No, not much which suggests the reason why smaller class sizes appear to have little effect on teaching effectiveness is because there are a lot of crap teachers that need to be assessed and weeded out.

    Still think 30 kids is too many to teach, assess and evaluate properly. 26 is plenty.

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  55. mandk (992 comments) says:

    @ Scott Chris

    why is 30 too many, and 26 plenty?

    Average class size in Shanghai, which I understand came top in the latest PISA ranking in all three subjects, is 40.

    Class size is an irrelevant distraction.

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  56. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    A bureaucratic stuff-up in Christchurch. Reporters from CTV ejected from ceremony with Japanese PM at destroyed CTV building. What a insensitive blunder!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10244853/CTV-journalists-barred-from-wreath-laying

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  57. Manolo (13,747 comments) says:

    Will the former Dear Leader, now resident of New York, take advantage of this?

    The United Nations has announced it will recognise the gay marriages of all its staffers, in a major policy shift that opens the door for the spouses of homosexual employees to enjoy the same benefits as the husbands and wives of their heterosexual colleagues.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11289824

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  58. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    The Maori Queen was well respected across the board. From what I have heard the current King is not well liked by many Maori.

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  59. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    ShawnLH

    A very small point, FWIW: The ‘Maori King’ is a Tainui-only construct created by the European colonial government as a matter of political expediency. Its creation suited the purposes of the participants admirably, and at the time it made perfect sense. The ‘King’s’ ‘status’ is definitely NOT recognised by any of the other tribes, who would never dream of being in ‘servitude’ to a tribe that many of them consider to hold a very low position within Maoridom.

    The collective memories of certain tribes concerning the ‘status’ of Tainui go back a very long way (pre-European in many cases) and as a result some things are never going to change. This is one of them…

    As I said, a very small point, but an important one….

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  60. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “A very small point, FWIW: The ‘Maori King’ is a Tainui-only construct”

    Yes, my wife, who is is Ngai Tahu, explained that to me. So I’m curious how the phrase “Maori King/Queen” came about, or is that just a media creation?

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  61. Griff (7,683 comments) says:

    a starting point would be
    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/kingitanga-the-maori-king-movement/page-1
    just ffs realize that this site is inclined to be revisionist and I would use it as a start for research not the end point for actual knowledge of the true establishing politics of the Kīngitanga movement.

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  62. kowtow (8,439 comments) says:

    Good one from Norman Tebbit.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/normantebbit/100278914/purge-those-whove-undermined-democracy/

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  63. wiseowl (891 comments) says:

    One News has an item showing Key and newfound support from Pacific Islanders in Auckland.
    Reporter asks one why they are supporting National and they say because they are against Gay marriage.?

    Something wrong here?

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  64. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    An epidemic of cognitive dissonance awaits conservatives who know better than anyone else what is good for us:

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9macdn1ojdg236i/It%20must%20be%20evil%2020.png

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  65. OneTrack (3,089 comments) says:

    stephieboy – “The circus will have to wait rill Feb 2015.”

    The New Zealand judicial system infiltrated by lefties, delaying and delaying, until a “sympathetic” Minister of Justice can be found? Or just the usual charge by the hour incompetence and troughing?

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  66. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    Experienced economist and not so experienced economist are walking down the road. They come across some shit lying on the asphalt. Experienced economist “If you eat it I’ll give you $20,000!”

    Not so experienced economist runs his optimisation problem and figures out he’s better off eating it so he does and collects money.

    Continuing along the same road they almost step into yet another shit. Not so experienced economist: “Now, if YOU eat this shit I’ll give YOU $20,000″.

    After evaluating the proposal experienced economist eats shit getting the money.

    They go on. Not so experienced economist starts thinking: “Listen, we both have the same amount of money we had before, but we both ate shit. I don’t see us being better off”.

    Experienced economist says “Well, that’s true, but you overlooked the fact that we’ve been just involved in $40,000 of trade”.

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  67. Don the Kiwi (1,750 comments) says:

    Griff’s gonna spew in his beer when he sees this. :-)


    “That well-known bastion of right wing nuttery – the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration – has released data showing that US temps have not risen in the last decade and have, in fact, dropped.
    Forbes:
    Responding to widespread criticism that its temperature station readings were corrupted by poor siting issues and suspect adjustments, NOAA established a network of 114 pristinely sited temperature stations spread out fairly uniformly throughout the United States. Because the network, known as the U.S. Climate Reference Network (USCRN), is so uniformly and pristinely situated, the temperature data require no adjustments to provide an accurate nationwide temperature record. USCRN began compiling temperature data in January 2005. Now, nearly a decade later, NOAA has finally made the USCRN temperature readings available.

    According to the USCRN temperature readings, U.S. temperatures are not rising at all – at least not since the network became operational 10 years ago. Instead, the United States has cooled by approximately 0.4 degrees Celsius, which is more than half of the claimed global warming of the twentieth century.

    The decline in the US matches what we know about the temperature stagnation occurring all over the planet for the last 17 years:

    Second, for those who may point out U.S. temperatures do not equate to global temperatures, the USCRN data are entirely consistent with – and indeed lend additional evidentiary support for – the global warming stagnation of the past 17-plus years. While objective temperature data show there has been no global warming since sometime last century, the USCRN data confirm this ongoing stagnation in the United States, also.

    Third, the USCRN data debunk claims that rising U.S. temperatures caused wildfires, droughts, etc

    Never mind Griff – you can’t be right all the time. Ugh.wait a minute………..

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  68. dirty harry (483 comments) says:

    NZ dollar at .88 against the US..why the fuck hasn’t the price of petrol dropped??

    Any wonder fuel companies have zero credibility with the public.

    Pure greed..because they can.

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  69. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    DH

    ‘Because they can’ is exactly correct. NZ Refining (at Marsden Point, Whangarei) refines the majority of petroleum products used in New Zealand. Conveniently (strangely?) it is owned by the Big Three (we know them as Mobil, BP, Caltex) and (possibly still) Z (formerly Shell) as well, and as such they can do as and what they wish in respect of charging for their products. The system works on a rotational basis; this week (for example) BP will raise its prices, to be followed immediately by the other companies as they all ‘struggle to make a profit in these tough financial times’, and ‘don’t want to be financially disadvantaged’ by the actions of a ‘competitor’. That way, all prices will go ‘us’ (the oil companies) and everyone will make money. A few weeks from now the process will be repeated, initiated by another one of these ‘supposedly’ competitive companies, and so on and so on… If you watch carefully, it is possible to predict who is going to raise prices and when.

    It’s a total rort of course, and has been going on for years. Unfortunately it won’t change any time soon. The oil companies all cry ‘poverty’ and plead ignorance and ‘hard times’ but that is for ‘public consumption only’ and the protestations (and ‘words of contrition’) are, at best, only ‘crocodile’ tears. . .

    It’s all about ‘profits’ and they (sorry, NZRef) make lots and lots. It’s an unfortunate ‘hazard’ of being a monopoly, so someone’s got to take the risk.

    BTW: If you want some light reading on the subject (albeit on the international scene) I would refer you to Anthony Sampson’s ‘The Seven Sisters’. Written before OPEC changed the rules (to an extent), I believe it is available online, and is very enlightening, in respect of the cartels and who is related to whom, and why…As it was published in 1975, it is now somewhat dated in certain respects, but as a ‘background’ it’s informative. As I said, ‘light’ reading, if you are interested.

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