General Debate 9 July 2014

July 9th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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224 Responses to “General Debate 9 July 2014”

  1. mikenmild (10,688 comments) says:

    First!

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  2. EAD (601 comments) says:

    There is an article in today’s NZ Herald that talks about Laurence and Katrina Day who have donated $500k towards the Conservative Party after having been members of the National Party for 30 years.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11290055

    Normally we are treated to the undue influence of Unions or Big Business donating money to political parties for purely self-interested reasons. Now we have a return to people power as a self-made New Zealand businessman who actually loves his country and its people wanting to do something positive with his sole motivation being to make Politicians listen to publicly organised referenda.

    The truth which has been lost by the current mob, is that referenda really should be the foundations of democracy – so called “Government by the people, for the People”. Instead we get faux referenda forced on us on “flag changes” that is neither wanted nor needed.

    All I can say is take a bow Laurence and Katrina Day as when politicians have no regard for the people, it is time the people acted and that is what they are doing.

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  3. Pete George (22,809 comments) says:

    Labour have accused the Government of deliberately

    Police are being instructed to charge fewer people in order to meet National’s crime reduction targets, Labour says.

    “Front line police and others in the criminal justice system are telling us police have had pressure put on by senior officers to reduce the number of charges they lay to meet the Government’s targets,” Justice spokesperson Andrew Little says.

    On Firstline Cunliffe said he had no “solid proof” but it had been heard on the street.

    In his speech on Sunday Cunliffe said:

    This election campaign should not be about dirty tricks or dodgy deals; smear campaigns or a personality cult.

    No evidence means Labour’s claims – both on prosecutions and on smears – should be treated with scepticism.

    Labour accuse Government of interference in prosecutions

    These are serious accusations and should be dealt with seriously, not as campaign fodder.

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  4. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    Mike
    Why don’t you read the paper or online news in the morning?
    Rather than siting there finger poised to give us another repeat of your childish fascination with having the first post on kb gd.
    You just don’t know you could actually add an interesting topic for the days debate.
    or piss everyone off with something of a little more depth than “first”.

    Like
    BBC told to stop wasting time on climate change deniers and skeptics of proven science
    http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/7/5877649/bbc-told-stop-wasting-time-on-science-skeptics
    BBC admonished for giving climate change deniers equal air time
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/07/bbc-admonished-for-giving-climate-change-deniers-equal-air-time/

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  5. nasska (10,659 comments) says:

    …”Now we have a return to people power as a self-made New Zealand businessman who actually loves his country “….

    Now we have a crusading busy-body who saw an opportunity to satisfy his desire to be in parliament & exploited it.

    FIFY

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  6. Keeping Stock (10,100 comments) says:

    There’s confirmation this morning that Labour is indeed planning on reversing the burden of proof with regard to consent in rape cases. This is a move which will have HUGE implications, and is likely to produce some very adverse unintended consequences.

    The presumption of innocence has been a central feature of the criminal justice system for over 1700 years. Then along came Andrew Little…

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/labour-is-planning-on-reversing-burden.html

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  7. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “Now we have a crusading busy-body who saw an opportunity to satisfy his wish to be in parliament & exploited it.”

    It could reasonably be said that you just described every single member of Parliament.

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  8. EAD (601 comments) says:

    Griff @ 8.09:

    I don’t know whether to give you a red tick or a green tick – spot on in your first part of your assessment, I errrrrrr “disagree” with the second! :)

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  9. lilman (890 comments) says:

    Little and justice in the same sentence,now thats funny!!!!!!!

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  10. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “The presumption of innocence has been a central feature of the criminal justice system for over 1700 years. Then along came Andrew Little…”

    Agreed. Labour’s approach to this issue is extremely disturbing. Yet another reason to vote for a National led coalition.

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  11. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    I guess Mikey is just having a little fun, but after his gutter attack on igm yesterday, it’s not looking very funny anymore.

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  12. Viking2 (11,128 comments) says:

    RIP Lady Hillary Goodman

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/10246065/Patrick-Goodmans-wife-dies-in-car-crash

    Sad day for Sir Pat and family.

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  13. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    EAD
    Watch this it very funny.

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  14. flipper (3,555 comments) says:

    Keeping…..

    Is it Little, with a background in labour style “industrial law”, or the lesbian mob and their fellow travellers, that really run Labour, circa 2014 ????

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  15. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    When I was young I started getting on the piss, frequenting some of the lower life hotels in the district nightly. My late mother, who was in the legal profession, took me aside one morning and told me that my path was one of destruction, stating, “The deadbeats you are becoming involved with are no hopers, who have and are nothing, and being of the left, they are only interested in pulling someone with something down to their level, not doing anything to improve themselves.” When I read these blogs and hear the rhetoric of the current line-up of Labour/Green MPs and supporters, I thank her very much for the advice . . . . I wish she were here to hear me say this.

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  16. Komata (1,110 comments) says:

    Pete

    But, but, the ‘honourable’ members of the NZLP would never stoop to such things as ‘inventing’ facts based purely on ‘hearsay’ would they? Not the fine and upstanding ‘people of integrity’ who comprise the majority of her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition?

    The wouldn’t lower themselves to such craven action, ever, ever? Would they?

    Not ‘arf they wouldn’t!! I know it’s early, but has anyone got a ‘Tui’?

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  17. Tarquin North (127 comments) says:

    Just got to Marsden Point. Roads shocking, trees down and surface flooding. Appears to be getting worse. Worst I’ve seen in a long time. Will call when I land in Kansas.

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  18. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    ShawnLH: Don’t worry too much about a loser such as Mikenwimp, I have handled experts in my time, so a wimpy public servant is no trouble. I just hope he comes to our company when his PSA-protected position becomes redundant, he will be well catered for!

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  19. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    Millionaires give huge donation to Conservatives to make referendums binding.

    Whilst I am always prattling on about democracy, I strongly disagree with their campaign – one of the things I do applaud John Key doing, was ignoring two very badly worded and executed referendums.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11290055

    PS Sorry EAD, just saw your post – I disagree. A referendum should only be followed, if it is worded correctly and very explicit in its intention. If not, then it should be ignored, no matter how many sign it.

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  20. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    @ Tarquin North (76 comments) says:
    July 9th, 2014 at 8:22 am

    Yeah, I believe its pretty shocking in some situations. Many without power, and lines down all over the place.

    Say hello to Dorothy and Toto.

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  21. Scott Chris (5,878 comments) says:

    Brazil gettin’ spanked by the Germans.

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  22. Left Right and Centre (2,819 comments) says:

    Brazil 0 Germany 5

    FIFA semi-final – and the first half aint over yet !!

    I. Shit. You. Not.

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  23. stephieboy (2,176 comments) says:

    Incredible .Up date World cup soccer semi 33 mins first half.

    Germany 5 Brazil 0

    Wow.!

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  24. minus (136 comments) says:

    The only thing good about Little’s justice ideas, is that while proof of innocence may change, you should be less likely to be arrested in the meantime.

    And will it make freeing Dotcom after the Election more difficult if Labour wins?

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  25. OneTrack (2,601 comments) says:

    flipper – “Is it Little, with a background in labour style “industrial law”, or the lesbian mob and their fellow travellers, that really run Labour, circa 2014 ????”

    We, especially David Shearer, all have a good idea on the correct answer to that question.

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  26. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “A referendum should only be followed, if it is worded correctly and very explicit in its intention.”

    Too subjective. Who decides?

    Some people claimed that the referendum to overturn the anti-smacking law was confusing. It did not seem confusing to me, or the people that signed it, and I suspect the claim was just bs.

    There are good reasons to oppose binding referendums, but I’m not convinced that is one of them.

    At the end of the day the Conservatives will not have the numbers to force National to do anything. What they will have, assuming they get into Parliament, which is likely, is the ability to very mildly influence National, as ACT have done. Key can get around this one by promising a review or select committee to study the issue.

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  27. Pete George (22,809 comments) says:

    “Some people claimed that the referendum to overturn the anti-smacking law was confusing. ”

    It was confusing. That is partly due to the need for the question to attract signatures for a petition but somehow also seem balanced enough for a referendum – but with the obvious intent of getting a particular result.

    “Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand?”

    Of course if the smack is inconsequential and non-harming it doesn’t warrant being a criminal offence, but the question doesn’t say that.

    The defintiion of ‘smack’ is open to wide interpretation. A tap on the bum is very different to a smack around the ear.

    The definition of ‘good parental correction’ is open to wide interpretation.

    What about a non-harming smack as a part of bad parental correction?

    And the question didn’t address the legislation anywhere near adequately.

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  28. WineOh (550 comments) says:

    Omg I should watch football more often – 5 goals in less than 26 minutes.

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  29. stephieboy (2,176 comments) says:

    Laurence and Katrina Day Birthers, Moon landing Truthers etc.?

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  30. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “It was confusing.”

    Looks straightforward to me Pete. Very easy to understand.

    Given the amount of publicity that the original legislation had, everyone knew exactly what the referendum was about.

    I suspect, as I said, that those who claim it was confusing did so not because it was, but because they did not want the legislation overturned.

    The “confusing” claim was just a convenient excuse.

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  31. kowtow (7,616 comments) says:

    If any proof was needed of how rooted the British ruling elites are ,adding to a statue of commie terrorist Mandela outside parliament will be one of the man the great Winston Churchill described thus:

    “It is alarming and also nauseating to see Mr. Gandhi, a seditious middle temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the east, striding half-naked up the steps of the viceregal palace, while he is still organizing and conducting a defiant campaign of civil disobedience, to parley on equal terms with the representative of the king-emperor.”

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  32. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    Vote conservative.

    Binding referendum.
    No asset sales.
    Creation taught alongside evolution in schools.
    Inquiry into the moon landing hoax and chem trails.
    Free herbal remedies alongside actual medical treatment
    :lol:
    Colon Crags band of confused conseronutters are the best new thing on the political landscape for decades
    let all the idiots have representation its called democracy. It the least it will get them out of national .

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  33. GMDI (71 comments) says:

    because this won’t get through moderation at the daily blog

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/07/09/dear-leader-loves-you-our-cult-of-no-personality/#comment-229772

    “It became sad a long time ago this desperation to make out like John Key’s popularity is because of some evil voodoo hex he’s cast over the population. what’s sadder is that the real reason he is so popular, the careful and consistent management vs the never ending farce that is the opposition, is that viewed by almost every commentator on the left as completely unbelievable because the voodoo hex explains the situation without criticism of the left. any who deviate from the voodoo hex line are considered traitors and crosby textor agents. this behaviour by the left are the classic examples exhibited by every single regime you’ve presented here when discussing oppostion.”

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  34. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    There were several things wrong with that referendum Shawn. Firstly, there was only a 56% voter turnout, of which 87% agreed with it. That is not statistically a sufficient majority of the electorate. It represents a very small majority – which is not sufficiently robust when it comes to changing legislation.

    Secondly, the wording was “”Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand?”

    The statement implies that those who ‘smack’ their children are ‘good’ parents and those that don’t, are not. In doing so it conveys a message that is confusing and therefore undermines the intention of the referendum which is meant to be value free – that is, it does not predetermine what is ‘good or bad’. Therefore it is misleading and open to differing interpretation.

    It also doesn’t define the term ‘smack’ and therefore leaves it open to interpretation. Whilst I consider a reasonable smack to be on the hand or buttocks with an open hand and using only sufficient force as to cause no bruising, breaking of the skin, or breakage to bones etc could be acceptable – others may decide that a smack around the ear with a telephone book, is also just ‘correction’. Something which should, in my opinion be a crime.

    Therefore, because it neither defined the words ‘smack’ or ‘good’ it was misleading and was rightfully ignored.

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  35. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “Laurence and Katrina Day Birthers, Moon landing Truthers etc.?”

    You forgot to accuse them of racism, not wanting black folks to run anything, disliking Shortland Street, and having poor fashion sense.

    Your slipping.

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  36. Pete George (22,809 comments) says:

    GMDI – that’s not one of Frank’s better posts. In fact it’s one of his worst. Pretty awful. I don’t even bother trying to comment there, Bradbury told me I’m not welcome in his form of democratic discussion.

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  37. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (2,830 comments) says:
    July 9th, 2014 at 8:53 am
    “It was confusing.”

    Looks straightforward to me Pete. Very easy to understand.

    Okay then, what is a smack? Do you agree that a ‘smack’ around a young child’s ears is appropriate, knowing as we do that young children’s ear drums can be perforated with even a minor smack to a particular area?

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  38. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “There were several things wrong with that referendum Shawn. Firstly, there was only a 56% voter turnout, of which 87% agreed with it. That is not statistically a sufficient majority of the electorate. ”

    Given that every single poll on the issue showed well over 80% opposed to the legislation, that criticism is total bunk. The referendum accurately reflected what over 80% of Kiwis actually thought.

    It was just not convenient for the social engineers, hence your and Pete’s list of supposed issues.

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  39. Left Right and Centre (2,819 comments) says:

    I said I want to see ‘Brazilian goals’ – not a ‘bazilion goals’ – hahaha

    Puts the 1999 RWC semi-final ‘upset’ ABs getting frogmarched into a bit of perspective !!

    Wow – lots of Brazilian women are going to take a hiding from their fellas – could be a few broken flat screens – all kinds of tantrum fueled mayhem . . . those poor players – shameful.

    Early game over has sucked all the fun out of the feeding frenzy I’ve got lined up the useless Braztards – still got home made chippies and chicken with cooked apple to go.

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  40. James Stephenson (2,024 comments) says:

    I think Brazillian BMW and Audi owners will be leaving the garage locked and taking the bus for a few weeks

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  41. Pete George (22,809 comments) says:

    “Given the amount of publicity that the original legislation had, everyone knew exactly what the referendum was about.”

    I heard many versions of what people thought it was about.

    There was a fundamental problem with the referendum – it appeared to be promoting ‘good’ smacking and good parenting while the bill was trying to address bad smacking by bad parents.

    Neither the referendum nor the bill were clearly defined.

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  42. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “Creation taught alongside evolution in schools.”

    That’s not one of their policies.

    “Inquiry into the moon landing hoax and chem trails.”

    Boring.

    “Free herbal remedies alongside actual medical treatment”

    Like marijuana?

    Not to mention that “actual medicine” is based on herbs and plants to begin with.

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  43. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (2,832 comments) says:
    July 9th, 2014 at 9:03 am

    Given that every single poll on the issue showed well over 80% opposed to the legislation, that criticism is total bunk. The referendum accurately reflected what over 80% of Kiwis actually thought.

    and who is to say that ‘every single poll’ on the issue was not completed by the same 56% that actually voted in the referendum? 80% of 56% is only 44% of the electorate who agreed Shawn. That is NOT a significant majority. When it is calling for a change to legislation, it has to be blatantly clear that the majority want it – the smacking referendum did not produce those results.

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  44. Pete George (22,809 comments) says:

    “Given that every single poll on the issue showed well over 80% opposed to the legislation, that criticism is total bunk. The referendum accurately reflected what over 80% of Kiwis actually thought.”

    That’s a false claim.

    Vast majority oppose Smacking Bill – poll

    The Research New Zealand poll, which questioned 497 people, found that nearly three-quarters opposed the bill and believed it was unenforceable.

    Research New Zealand director Emanuel Kalafatelis said the poll showed 73 per cent of respondents disagreed or strongly disagreed with the bill’s provisions.

    It also showed that 72 per cent of those questioned thought the bill, if it was to be passed into law, would be unenforceable.

    That’s significantly less than 80%.

    And the 72% who said it would be unenforceable appear to have got it wrong. There doesn’t seem to be any significant issues with the legislation, especially when compared to the old bill.

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  45. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “and who is to say that ‘every single poll’ on the issue was not completed by the same 56% that actually voted in the referendum? ”

    Your kidding right?

    I’ll give you some time to think about that argument.

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  46. Pete George (22,809 comments) says:

    And a related poll:

    77pc oppose anti-smacking poll

    Three out of four New Zealanders believe the upcoming “anti-smacking” referendum is a waste of money, a survey has found.

    The Research New Zealand poll of 481 people found 77 per cent didn’t support spending money on the non- binding referendum, which will cost $8.9 million.

    Eighteen per cent felt it was a good use of taxpayer dollars while 5 per cent were unsure.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/2547977/77pc-oppose-anti-smacking-poll

    Eighteen percent were wrong there, the referendum was a waste of money. No children were saved by the testing of flawed opinion.

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  47. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “Vast majority oppose Smacking Bill”

    Thanks Pete! :)

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  48. Nookin (3,034 comments) says:

    I think we need to bear in mind the circumstances leading up to the referendum. A jury found that taking a stockwhip to a teenager was reasonable. That verdict probably came as a complete surprise to most parents. The publicity at the time suggested that the kid was a ratbag. The whipping was not a matter of discipline. They appeared to want to hurt him. To some parents, they might have been acceptable. To most parents, it was over the top. That, i think, influenced the outcome.

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  49. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    The problem I have with the anti smacking law is
    The present law takes the judgment away from the judicial legal process and places into the hands of those charged with enforcement
    I am well aware of the reason for the change I just disagree with the perversion of our legal system this change in focus entails.
    Laws that allow such decisions to be made by the enforcement branch not the judiciary are not good laws.
    A smack with reasonable constraint should not be illegal. The pre existing laws on assault were sufficient to deal with abuse. If the definition of abuse was not working this should have been altered. Having good parent using reasonable discipline made potential criminals is not good law.

    .

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  50. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “I think we need to bear in mind the circumstances leading up to the referendum. A jury found that taking a stockwhip to a teenager was reasonable. ”

    Thanks. That is the most reasonable and rational concern I have seen posted today on the issue.

    I agree that the status quo was not working. I may be wrong, but I think there was one or two other cases that were disturbing in the same way.

    The question is what was the best way to deal with it? I think Bradford’s legislation was the wrong approach, because regardless of how it is being applied, it effectively turned large numbers of good parents into potential criminals, creating a constant moral hazard.

    Looks like Griff and I are in complete agreement for a change! :)

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  51. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (2,836 comments) says:
    July 9th, 2014 at 9:17 am

    Give it some thought yourself Shawn. The results of the referendum clearly indicate that a lot of people couldn’t have given a toss about it, but that there were some that felt strongly enough to vote. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that those same people bothered to take part in various polls on the issue and so the results of those polls reflects their stance.

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  52. EAD (601 comments) says:

    This donation by the Day’s has similar echoes to Paul Sykes donation to UKIP who not long ago were at 2% in the polls and went on to top the country in the recent UK elections.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10455937/Paul-Sykes-I-want-to-set-Britain-free-from-the-EU.html

    Sykes, like the Day’s, is a self made businessman who I guess was sick of the direction of the all pervading anti-democratic, big state-driven debt, politically correct, green-obsessed direction his country was heading in and decided to act and was sick of being lectured to by the political elite how to live their lives.

    Once the “silent- majority” of decent-minded people can see they’re not alone with their dismay at the direction their country is headed in, they will act and act en masse. That is why the freedom-hating left must attack decent people at all opportunities, call them bigots, racists, backwards, reactionaries or “Moon landing Truthers” and attack them with ad-hominems rather than rational debate as they know they will lose.

    Remember, all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

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  53. stephieboy (2,176 comments) says:

    Brazil 0 Germany 6 .

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  54. Pete George (22,809 comments) says:

    Two things were confused in the smacking debate – restraint/intervention, like smacking a hand away from a hot stove or power point, or restraining a child from running onto a road, and corrective discipline – that is, smacking afterwards as a punishment.

    Intervention smacking or restraining is trying to prevent harm to the child.

    The only way that disciplinary smacking could feasibly be effective is by deliberately hurting the child.

    The legislation tries to address this difference. The referendum didn’t.

    If the referendum or polls had differentiated between intervention and physical discipline I think results would have been quite different.

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  55. nasska (10,659 comments) says:

    Judith

    ….” 80% of 56% is only 44% of the electorate “…..

    It’s not unreasonable to assume that the 56% of the electorate who couldn’t be bothered to tick a form & mail it back either didn’t give a stuff or were sufficiently unintelligent so as not to exercise their right to have a say. Short of coercion at gunpoint to enforce participation there’s not much more that proponents of democracy can do.

    While the original legislation offered too much protection to abusive & cruel parents a smack on the arse is not abuse. In this respect I back the Godnutters.

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  56. dirty harry (428 comments) says:

    Its ok to smack your children as a form of mild discipline.

    No Government will ever tell me how to bring up children.

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  57. stephieboy (2,176 comments) says:

    EAD but how can you have a rational debate with Conspiracy Theorists or Mooon landing Hoaxer .??
    1.5 % a silent majority.?
    The CP a monopoly on virtue.?

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  58. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    And the 72% who said it would be unenforceable appear to have got it wrong. There doesn’t seem to be any significant issues with the legislation, especially when compared to the old bill.

    Exactly Pete, there have not be scores of parents dragged before the courts for giving little Johnny a smack on the butt – all those who misinterpreted the legislation and ranted and raved with emotionally enhanced dribbling about how good parents were going to end up in prison and so on, have simply been proved wrong.

    But still they rave – in between trying to drag us back to last century – and checking for movement on the moon.

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  59. jcuknz (704 comments) says:

    I have a Ref for you ….. “It should be a criminal offence not to vote in any political election or referendum”

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  60. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    Once the “silent- majority”
    Yip when we get all those who don’t vote into the polling both the result will be.
    Youth are the largest non voting minority.
    Youth vote more to the left.
    Oh dear!
    self defeating EAD
    There is no “Moral majority” of untapped voters its a myth that bolsters your personal delusions.

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  61. Pete George (22,809 comments) says:

    “The pre existing laws on assault were sufficient to deal with abuse.”

    No. There was a problem with an out clause for parents in the old version:

    59 Domestic discipline
    (1) Every parent of a child and, subject to subsection (3), every person in the place of the parent of a child is justified in using force by way of correction towards the child, if the force used is reasonable in the circumstances.
    (2) The reasonableness of the force used is a question of fact.

    That was what got the whipping mother off her charge. There was another case involving a rubber hose.

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  62. Kimbo (670 comments) says:

    Is it bad taste to ask if this is the most comprehensive German victory since…France 1940?

    From Casablanca

    Ilsa: I wasn’t sure you were the same. Let’s see, the last time we met…
    Rick: Was La Belle Aurore.
    Ilsa: How nice, you remembered. But of course, that was the day the Germans marched into Paris.
    Rick: Not an easy day to forget.
    Ilsa: No.
    Rick: I remember every detail. The Germans wore gray, you wore blue.

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  63. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    From the megaphone of the progressives The New York Times, a startling admission.

    Why Teenagers May Be getting More Conservative

    Even the dumbed down generations “educated” in the left’s indoctrination camps are awakening to what a destructive mess their Progressive parents and grandparents have made of western civilisation.

    The Jane Fonda generation, a bunch of clapped out pot smoking long haired hippies and spoilt narcissistic brats who in their ignorant desire to be “trendy” threw away everything that was good.

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  64. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    @ jcuknz (694 comments) says:
    July 9th, 2014 at 9:31 am

    Given the intelligence of many in the electorate, I wonder whether it should be a criminal offence to allow them to vote :P

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  65. EAD (601 comments) says:

    Stephie,

    this one will get you going with all of your big long words: It looks like Governments from around the World have admitted they use false flag events to blame an enemy as a pre-text to start a war.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-08/governments-around-world-%E2%80%93-including-western-islamic-asian-and-african-nations-%E2%80%93-adm

    That might sound extreme, but when you think about it, it is quite a rational tactic as what motivation does the average person have to go to war if they can’t be convinced to fight “the other”.

    I await the response :)

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  66. stephieboy (2,176 comments) says:

    Brazil a joke.!

    Brazil 0 Germany 7

    12 or so minutes to go.

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  67. Pete George (22,809 comments) says:

    From Wikipedia on a survey a year after the legislation was passed.

    A survey carried out between May and June 2008 showed that more people supported the Act than those who did not. The survey, carried out by UMR Research for the Office of the Children’s Commissioner, polled 750 people, of whom 91% were aware of the law change and 72% professed to know “a lot” or “a fair amount” about the legislation.

    Results of the questions were:
    - 89% of respondents agreed that children are entitled to the same protection from assault as adults. 4% disagreed and 5% were neutral.
    - 43% supported the law regarding physical punishment of children, 28% opposed and 26% were neutral.
    - 58% agreed there are certain circumstances when parents may physically punish children. 20% disagreed with the hypothesis and 20% were neutral.
    - 30% agreed that physical punishment should be part of child discipline. 37% disagreed and 32% were unsure.

    89% of respondents agreed that children are entitled to the same protection from assault as adults – the old legislation failed to do that.

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  68. EAD (601 comments) says:

    7-0

    I think David Luiz as earned himself a new nickname “Maginot” as the Germans ignore him and attack from around his side

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  69. lilman (890 comments) says:

    Judith,have heard other people saying that they should choose who has the right to vote as well.

    Not as long as I have breath in my lungs I can tell you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  70. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    Pete George (22,488 comments) says:
    July 9th, 2014 at 9:38 am

    89% of respondents agreed that children are entitled to the same protection from assault as adults – the old legislation failed to do that.

    That’s always been a tough one, because I bet if any of you were standing somewhere in public, and spat your food out, (something I consider is bad manners and needs correction), and if I walked up to you, put you across my knee and paddled your butt – I’m sure you’d want me charged with assault. However, we argue that we should be allowed to do that to our children? No wonder kids get confused about what is right and what isn’t – we’re very good at giving mixed messages.

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  71. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “EAD but how can you have a rational debate with Conspiracy Theorists or Mooon landing Hoaxer .??”

    Stephie, how can you have a rational debate about Obama if your accused of racism for opposing his policies?

    People sometimes have silly views, you included, that are not worth debating.

    But Craig’s personal views on those issues are not party policy.

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  72. stephieboy (2,176 comments) says:

    EAD, false flag attacks have been part and parcel of government war strategy going back to before Nero’s burring of Rome Nothing new .!.But it refers more to the naval tactic of using a false flag to deceive the enemy and score a cannon broadside etc.
    More modern examples are the Mukden incident by the Japanese , Himmler and the pretext to attack Poland, Soviiets attack on Finland etc.
    But important to distinguish and discern what is and not is a false flag.9/11, Sandy Nook and the Boston Bombing were most definitely not.
    Just hope this is not a harbinger of Consrvative Party policy development.?

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  73. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    True to historical form, Progressives once again try to silence opposing views.

    Costco is a retail/ wholesale chain in the US whose owners are Obama backers. The company management has issued an order to remove all copies of Dinesh D’Souza’s bestselling book, “America: Imagine the World Without Her,” from the shelves of its stores nationwide.

    The book, in this midterm election year, is a strong rebuttal of the progressive ideology behind President Obama’s policies, which have been supported by Costco co-founder and director Jim Sinegal, a major Democrat donor and a speaker at the 2012 Democratic National Convention that nominated the president.

    http://www.wnd.com/2014/07/costco-removing-dsouzas-america-from-shelves/

    Same old Stalinistic mentality.

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  74. kowtow (7,616 comments) says:

    PG

    As I recall it ,it was a jury that confirmed your so called “whipping mother” as innocent.

    Parents have a duty to discipline their children. If they don’t ,the state is there to take up the slack and impose its form of punishment.

    Which would we rather?

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  75. Kimbo (670 comments) says:

    @ Pete George

    No. There was a problem with an out clause for parents in the old version…”…if the force used is reasonable…”…That was what got the whipping mother off her charge. There was another case involving a rubber hose.

    You overlook the possibility, Pete, that jurors are likely also parents who have nearly all had at some point out-of-control children over whom they have torn their hair out in both exasperation and worry. In such circumstances they can opt, as they also do in some cases of euthanasia, for jury nullification.

    A reminder having all the right laws “codified” is never a guarantee the system will always be followed.

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  76. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (2,838 comments) says:
    July 9th, 2014 at 9:53 am

    But Craig’s personal views on those issues are not party policy.

    Tsk tsk Shawn – so Craig is allowed to have personal views and his party shouldn’t be judged for them?

    Tell me, did you give similar statement when David Cunliffe recently made his personal ‘man’ statement, or does your ‘rule’ only apply to Colin Craig, and not other politicians?

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  77. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “so Craig is allowed to have personal views and his party shouldn’t be judged for them?”

    Only if they are likely to become party policy.

    “Tell me, did you give similar statement when David Cunliffe recently made his personal ‘man’ statement,”

    It wasn’t a personal statement, it was part of a policy launch by a party that already has gender quotas. Big difference Judith.

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  78. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “We all want progress, but if you’re on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.”

    C. S. Lewis

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  79. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (2,840 comments) says:
    July 9th, 2014 at 10:10 am

    Bullshit, because he preceded it with ‘I”, making it personal. It may have been a policy launch, but the policy does not include anything about apologies. Colin Craig has made many personal statements whilst talking to the media about his party – you can’t have one set of rules for the spacecadet just because you’re supporting him and another for everyone else.

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  80. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (2,840 comments) says:
    July 9th, 2014 at 10:11 am

    Yeah, but Craig wants to take us back to a time before we even had roads!!

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  81. mikenmild (10,688 comments) says:

    Gee Reddy, setting aside the fact you are sourcing ‘news’ from WND, who really cares that a bookshop shows the good taste to not sell Dinesh D’Souza’s rubbish?

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  82. Ryan Sproull (7,029 comments) says:

    “We all want progress, but if you’re on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.”

    It’s a nice quote, but entirely uninformative. It could just as easily be said by the KKK as it could by MLK.

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  83. flipper (3,555 comments) says:

    he WOHB site foreshadows legal problems for the Herald in respect of J Banks.

    The poll taken by the Herald (in relation to discharge without conviction and sentence) and published by them is being seen as contempt of Court.

    Wylie J has issued a bench note (reproduced by WOHB), summoned (“invited”) the Herald, and cited a previous case as a precedent.

    It does not look good for the smarty arses at the Herald. Their “revenge” on Banks and J Key looks like being as very bitter pill. Oh dear. What a pithy. Never mind.

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  84. wreck1080 (3,730 comments) says:

    Loving Bob Jones column this morning.

    Cunliffe cost his party a six figure sum of money in two words .. “you betcha”.

    Each of those words cost his party a minimum of 50k in a lost donation.

    ….

    I know someone who, through much hard work, became wealthy in the last few years. He has a sentimental historic attachment to the Labour Party, as do many affluent individuals, and he was planning a six-figure donation this year, chuffed at his new-found capability to do so.

    But he was outraged after hearing a Cunliffe interview following the leadership race. “Will you raise taxes on higher incomes?” Cunliffe was asked. “You betcha,” the new leader exclaimed with gusto. My acquaintance was angry for, as he said: “I’ve worked my butt off and the tone of Cunliffe’s enthusiasm to punish me for this was sickening.”

    “Will you now vote National?” I teased, knowing he’d never hitherto done so. “You betcha,” he exclaimed.

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  85. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    WASHINGTON — Federal prosecutors Thursday indicted conservative commentator Dinesh D’Souza, alleging he used “straw donors” to make excessive contributions to a U.S. Senate candidate in the 2012 election.

    D’Souza, 52, is charged with one count of making $20,000 in illegal contributions. During the 2012 election, federal rules capped individual donations to a single candidate at $5,000.

    Federal authorities “take a zero-tolerance approach to corruption of the electoral process,” Preet Bharara, the U.S. attorney for the southern district of New York, said in a news release announcing the indictment.

    D’Souza, who lives in San Diego, is expected to be arraigned Friday in New York.

    The indictment does not identify the Senate candidate who allegedly received the excess contributions. Prosecutors claim D’Souza “directed other individuals” to donate to the candidate in August 2012 and then reimbursed them.

    That’s democracy being perverted alright redtard

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  86. stephieboy (2,176 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, if WND report is accurate about Dinesh D’Souza’s Tome ( and it invariably gets most things wrong ) then the book is available aplenty at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Wall Mart etc.
    A sample review of the tome from Amazon,

    1.0 out of 5 stars In January 2014, he was indicted on charges of …, July 7, 2014
    By Autumnsun (Pennsylvania) – See all my reviews
    This review is from: America: Imagine a World without Her (Hardcover)
    In January 2014, he was indicted on charges of making illegal political contributions to a 2012 United States Senate campaign. On May 20, 2014, D’Souza pleaded guilty in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York to a charge of using “straw donors” to make illegal political campaign donations. The charge, a felony, which thus forfeits future voting rights of the convict, carries a sentence of 10 to 16 months according to the plea agreement reached between D’Souza and federal prosecutors.”

    This, conservatives, is what you trust and believe in, from a man born in India with only a bachelors degree in English for educational credentials. All he has done, is come to America to build his own form of political belief, much of it based on the political views of India under the Raj, while he tells everyone it’s based on the American Revolution. JUST because he’s anti-Obama, you’ve all fallen, hook, line and sinker, and you were worried about President Obama not being from America? Now you’re falling for a man that makes millions from his companies in India, with out-sourced American jobs.”

    D’Souza ‘s back ground very interesting !

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  87. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    “Members and front organizations must continually embarrass, discredit and degrade our critics. When obstructionists become too irritating, label them as fascist, or Nazi or insane…. The association will, after enough repetition, become “fact” in the public mind.”

    Communist Party, Moscow Central Committee 1943

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  88. mikenmild (10,688 comments) says:

    Oh yes, but that’s not a reason to refuse to point out the insanity of someone who is actually insane.

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  89. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    embarrass, discredit and degrade our critics. When obstructionists become too irritating, label them as Marxist, or progressive or insane

    fixed redtard :lol:

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  90. Tauhei Notts (1,607 comments) says:

    EAD at 9.40
    On an historic day in world sport that comment is the best today.

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  91. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    Sarah Palin-

    IMPEACH OBAMA NOW

    Impeachment is too good for the lying corrupt fraud and imposter. He needs to be tried for treason for his anti-constitutional attempts to destroy the US Republic.

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  92. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    Yet another patch on that poor doll red?

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  93. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    nasska (10,425 comments) says:
    July 9th, 2014 at 9:29 am

    …In this respect I back the Godnutters…

    nasska, nasska, nasska … tut tut tut – what have I told you about looking at the light. DO NOT look at the light. Not only will everything you enjoy be judged as wrong if you go to the light side – but once they indoctrinate you, you will know what a sin is, and you can no longer use the defense of mens rea, come judgement day.

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  94. The only red for me is that of Manchester United (50 comments) says:

    Any Germans in Brazil tonight should go into hiding. It’s not as they haven’t done it before.

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  95. Ryan Sproull (7,029 comments) says:
    “Members and front organizations must continually embarrass, discredit and degrade our critics. When obstructionists become too irritating, label them as fascist, or Nazi or insane…. The association will, after enough repetition, become “fact” in the public mind.”

    Communist Party, Moscow Central Committee 1943

    Redbaiter

    Ryan Sproull

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  96. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    Don’t you have some taxpayer funded work to do Mikey?

    Or are we going to be regaled again by your version of “reasoned debate” where you call others nutters, books you haven’t read “rubbish” and people who think Key is better than Cunliffe “worthless human beings”?

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  97. mikenmild (10,688 comments) says:

    Where did I call someone a ‘worthless human being’? I don’t think any human being is altogether worthless.

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  98. OneTrack (2,601 comments) says:

    ShawnLH – “The “confusing” claim was just a convenient excuse.”

    Not just convenient. It was the only excuse the deniers could come up with.

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  99. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    Hi Ryan.

    How is the Anarchist mission to create an authoritarian global government to limit the US’s power going? :)

    C.S Lewis is somewhat more informative than pseudo-anarchist hypocrisy.

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  100. OneTrack (2,601 comments) says:

    “Yeah, but Craig wants to take us back to a time before we even had roads!!”

    No, that’s the Greens.

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  101. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “Where did I call someone a ‘worthless human being’? I don’t think any human being is altogether worthless.”

    Mikey, this was your response to igm yesterday:

    “Yes, because we all know one’s worth as a human being is directly correlated with one’s material status. One that basis, I confidently predict that igm is a bankrupt.”

    This was my response to you:

    “igm did not say anything remotely like that Mike. He said that in terms of leadership, strategy and wealth creation, Key has a better record than Cunliffe. That says nothing at all like your saying.

    Claiming to want “reasoned discussion” when you misrepresent and lie about what other posters are saying (amongst many similar tactics your fond of) is blatant hypocrisy, and effectively calling igm a worthless human being is gutter level debate.

    If all you have is lies, invective, and verbal diarrhea, save it for Labour/PSA meetings.”

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  102. Judith (7,597 comments) says:

    If all you have is lies, invective, and verbal diarrhea,

    In my opinion that’s generally all that you have. So, you think you have sole rights to sprout the crap you do, but you object to others voicing their opinions? What makes your opinion more valid and worthy of being heard/seen, than anyone else Shawn?

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  103. Ryan Sproull (7,029 comments) says:

    Hi Ryan.

    How is the Anarchist mission to create an authoritarian global government to limit the US’s power going? :)

    C.S Lewis is somewhat more informative than pseudo-anarchist hypocrisy.

    Jesus, Shawn, you’re not a nice person at times, are you. I just commented on the quote. I think my comment was accurate. It wasn’t an attack on you.

    As for authoritarian global government, as I’ve explained any number of times, I was calling out the hypocrisy of the US and may of its supporters in simultaneously supporting the rule of law and supporting the US in breaking the law.

    I also don’t believe an anarchist is unable to have opinions on how democracies should act, any more than a republican is unable to have opinions on how monarchs should act – but especially when holding monarchs and democracies up to their own professed standards.

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  104. mikenmild (10,688 comments) says:

    Oh that, Shawn. igm directly stated that Cunliffe could not be as good as Key because he has a lower net worth. He was asking for that sort of comparison to be made. BTW, even though igm is a despicably low piece of work, I don’t consider him entirely worthless. After all, he makes me laugh,

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  105. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    Hy Ryan. That was my bad, as my response was supposed to be tongue in cheek, a small dig, rather than a serious response. Apologies.

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  106. Pete George (22,809 comments) says:

    Claiming to want “reasoned discussion” when you misrepresent and lie about what other posters are saying (amongst many similar tactics your fond of) is blatant hypocrisy,

    You were supporting someone who was misrepresenting and lying yesterday Shawn, and you were trying to stop others from expressing their opinion. Does that make you a hypocrite?

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  107. Ryan Sproull (7,029 comments) says:

    Hy Ryan. That was my bad, as my response was supposed to be tongue in cheek, a small dig, rather than a serious response. Apologies.

    Yeah, I realised a minute later that perhaps I was being unnecessarily defensive myself. My apologies also.

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  108. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    Judith,

    I never said Mike cannot air his views. About half the time I tend to agree with him, more or less. My point was that his response to igm did not actually address what igm really said, and did so in a rather viscous fashion. Plus, Mike does sometimes complain about the lack of reasoned discussion/rational debate on KB, but then uses tactics that could be said to be the opposite of that.

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  109. Brian Smaller (3,989 comments) says:

    Where did I call someone a ‘worthless human being’? I don’t think any human being is altogether worthless.

    True. That is easily seen by the number of statist regimes around the world that have found people have value as fertiliser.

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  110. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “You were supporting someone who was misrepresenting and lying yesterday Shawn”

    If Pete you mean the David Garrett spat last night, my point was that what DG said seemed innocent enough to me and others, and I’m generally pretty hard on what seem to be real racist comments.

    David made a response and said he was being misrepresented, and Kimbo had made his point (and to be fair he may have been right). But then it just got out of hand, especially when you started piling on to him as well, and what was a very interesting discussion on the thread topic was totally derailed.

    So it may be your opinion that he was lying, I just don’t think he was.

    This is a major problem with blogs. The lack of face to face discussion means a lot of the visual clues we use to understand what people are saying and meaning are lost, and misunderstandings are more likely as a result.

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  111. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    This is a major problem with blogs. The lack of face to face discussion means a lot of the visual clues we use to understand what people are saying and meaning are lost, and misunderstandings are more likely as a result.

    For me its fucken brilliant. I just don’t get what you Normie’s don’t say with that weird thing called body language.

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  112. Kimbo (670 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH

    For what it is worth, ShawnLH, time to bury the hatchet. I know things have definitely got out of hand when the “Beige Badger” (is a term of affection, Pete!) rides forth!

    Leave Garrett to me.

    Enjoy your posts – and I accept at face value you didn’t think DG’s post was meant to offend – although I don’t agree – it wasn’t racism I was piling into in my tl:dr post – was other stuff.

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  113. ciaron (1,314 comments) says:

    From yesterday:
    Griff (6,605 comments) says:

    July 8th, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    The browser posts add content on your prior history.

    Dime gets hookers and flash cars.

    I get adverts for tractor tires and fostering kids.

    Harry it probably gets a gay dating site.

    fuck knows were you have been surfing.

    Ok, smart arse, why am I getting Jenny Craig and fostering kids today then?

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  114. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    Because the adds are influenced but not solely dictated and as dime said a few post later it was a beat up. :lol:
    I have as I write this an add for tractor parts because I spend a reasonable amount of time on line researching tractors and parts I also have an add for BNZ home loans which is not of use to me at all..

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  115. stephieboy (2,176 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, yet again posts utter lunacy from Madame Pallin announced by the weirdest of Blogs, Breitbart,
    A refresher on their weirdness,

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Andrew_Breitbart

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  116. Pete George (22,809 comments) says:

    Shawn – but it wasn’t a one off. DG has taken to repeating made up claims and making repeated attacks. He did that to me more than once last night and was worse last Saturday. Totally unbecoming of someone who should be able to get respect here for his experience, but he has a nasty side he seems to have trouble keeping in check. While he criticises behaviour at The Standard.

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  117. nasska (10,659 comments) says:

    ….”why am I getting Jenny Craig and fostering kids today then?”….

    Google has figured out that you’re fat & you have a spare bedroom. :)

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  118. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    If the strongest argument you can provide to impeach Obama is one supplied by Sarah (I can see Russia from my house) Palin then you have nothing.

    While I am not a supporter of Obama it is both stupid, and, an outright lie to say that Obama is an imposter. The man won two presidential elections, he is the legitimate POTUS.

    Actually, come to think of it, it might be a bit of a stretch to say that Obama won two elections. A more accurate description of those two elections would be to say that Obama won by default.

    In 2008 he was up against an opponent who many think would have done a good job as POTUS, I cannot agree with those thoughts. When you are the most powerful man in the world your judgement is called into question each and every day. If your sense of judgement is one that allows a total moron like Palin to be one heartbeat away from the most powerful position in the world then you are clearly not a man given to rational thought, nor are you the man to be the leader of the free world.

    In 2012 Obama was up against a man who believes in the words of Joseph Smith Jr, that alone is enough to prove you are not the best candidate for the job.

    The Yanks have the leader that they deserve, maybe one day there will emerge somebody on the right who is brave enough to tell the NRA and the religious right to take a running jump, until then we will see a long line of Democratic presidents.

    Hell, It would be worth seeing Hilary in the white house just to witness another Bedwetter meltdown.

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  119. mikenmild (10,688 comments) says:

    But, but Benghazi…?

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  120. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    The left are generally pretty clueless about most things, but once stark example of their utter dumbness is their penchant for posting links to Wikipedia political articles to support their views.

    They apparently don’t even know simple facts such as Wikipedia is well known to be dominated by Progressives. There are thousands of articles out there attesting to its bias, but commie idiots here in NZ seem strangely unaware that they exist. I guess its a bit like Cuba, where they think Castro is the greatest thing since sliced bread, because they are shielded from anything that says otherwise.

    Wiki is useful for general information but for political opinion? Forget it.

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wikipedia+liberal+bias

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  121. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    mikenmild

    Yep, Benghazi was a total fuck up and one that should have ended Hillary’s career. However, as long as the republicans keep selecting muppets like Romney, or Ted Cruz then Clinton is going to romp home.

    Sadly the USA has yet to evolve to a point where a person of no religion could be the POTUS, the best the free world can hope for is a POTUS who keeps his religion private.

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  122. kowtow (7,616 comments) says:

    The Only Red

    Germans in hiding,hahaha

    I’m waiting for the german media to hype up the “multicultural” nature of the german team which will be the reason for their success.They’ll politicise anything these days, all for the cause .

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  123. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    Ha ha.. Bigot Bruv has the political coherency of water gurgling down a plughole.

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  124. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    I like rational wiki better redblather it has a nice definition of liberal bias that is pertinent when it comes to your post.
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Liberal_bias
    from your google by the way El Guava
    Liberal bias is a term which is used in two ways. Firstly, the most obvious and realistic:

    A bias towards liberal political views.

    Or as conservative pundits seem to understand it, liberal bias is:

    Where an issue is presented in such a way as to downplay points of view expressed by conservatives.
    A pejorative to describe any fact or opinion that conservatives don’t like.

    The first definition is fairly straightforward. It is true that some news organizations do have a left-leaning stance, just as a number of news organizations have a right leaning stance; one can’t read The Guardian or watch Rachel Maddow without feeling a teeny weeny slight lean to the left but they at least usually acknowledge this fact.[2] However, the second definition is far more interesting as it tells us something about the attitudes of some pundits and commentators to things that they don’t agree with.

    Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
    —Stephen Colbert

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  125. nasska (10,659 comments) says:

    “I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all.”

    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

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  126. kowtow (7,616 comments) says:

    bigot bruv at his usual obsessive rants.

    Talks about freedom but hates the idea that free men can own weapons or be free to have religious convictions.Or that a leader can have a faith or be elected by like minded free men.

    BB does not believe in freedom he believes only in an atheist ruled world. Look what that did for the French and rest of Europe after their godless revolution and then the Chinese, Russians who took so much inspiration from the bloody egalitarian French as well as the Germans under godless national Socialism.

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  127. kowtow (7,616 comments) says:

    Israel withdrew from Gaza and what happens?

    Rockets now fired at Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

    No doubt funded by Iran ,Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states.

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  128. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    Palin should leave the GOP and start a new party. With Cruz and Mike Smith and Trey Gowdy. This would bring about the demise of the GOP and flush those Democrats and Progressives who control it now into the open.

    They would be left with nowhere to go but the Democrat party, their real home. US politics would thereby revert from its one party state to where there was a clear line between parties.

    As for not winning in 2016, who cares. As the left know, its the long term that counts, and like Key supporters here in NZ, too many who support the Republicans can never see further than the next election.

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  129. kowtow (7,616 comments) says:

    In the last day or so ,some 200 rockets have been indiscriminately fired into Israel by Hamas and other terror groups in Gaza.

    For the first time ever Haifa has been targetted and many other towns too.

    Al Jazeera are crying about how Israel’s retaliatory fire is spoiling the spirit of ramadan in Gaza…….diddums.

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  130. Fletch (6,021 comments) says:

    bruv, both 2008 and 2012 were very close elections for Obama.

    Back in 2008, Obama won with a difference of 2.8 percent when he received 51 percent to McCain’s 48.2 percent.

    http://www.latinospost.com/articles/6638/20121108/2012-election-results-vs-2008-measuring-obamas.htm

    I personally doubt Obama fairly won in 2012 without some amount of underhandedness – ie, voting districts where he (impossibly) won 100% of the vote. There have been shown to have been a lot of double voting in many places.

    In those 44 districts, Mr. Obama won 14,686 to 23. That’s .16% of the vote for Romney.

    http://www.punditpress.com/2012/11/what-luck-obama-won-dozens-of-cleveland.html

    btw, Obama never should have been on the Democrat ballot to begin with. Two Dem operatives have been sent to prison for forging the necessary signatures to get him on there.

    A jury in South Bend, Indiana has found that fraud put President Obama and Hillary Clinton on the presidential primary ballot in Indiana in the 2008 election. Two Democratic political operatives were convicted Thursday night in the illegal scheme after only three hours of deliberations. They were found guilty on all counts.

    Former longtime St. Joseph County Democratic party Chairman Butch Morgan Jr. was found guilty of felony conspiracy counts to commit petition fraud and forgery, and former county Board of Elections worker Dustin Blythe was found guilty of felony forgery counts and falsely making a petition, after being accused of faking petitions that enabled Obama, then an Illinois Senator, to get on the presidential primary ballot for his first run for the White House.

    Under state law, presidential candidates need to qualify for the primary ballots with 500 signatures from each of the state’s nine congressional districts. Indiana election officials say that in St. Joseph County, which is the 2nd Congressional district, the Obama campaign qualified with 534 signatures; Clinton’s camp had 704.

    Prosecutors say that in President Obama’s case, nine of the petition pages were apparently forged. Each petition contains up to 10 names, making a possible total of 90 names, which, if faked, could have brought the Obama total below the legal limit required to qualify. Prosecutors say 13 Clinton petitions were apparently forged, meaning up to 130 possibly fake signatures. Even if 130 signatures had been challenged, it would have still left Mrs. Clinton with enough signatures to meet the 500 person threshold.

    Levco said a total of “100 to 200” signatures had been forged on Obama’s and Clinton’s petitions.

    An Indiana State Police investigator said in court papers that the agency examined the suspect Obama petitions and “selected names at random from each of the petition pages and contacted those people directly. We found at least one person (and often multiple people) from each page who confirmed that they had not signed” petitions “or given consent for their name and/or signature to appear.”

    Numerous voters told Fox News that they never signed the petitions.

    “That’s not my signature,” Charity Rorie, a mother of four, told us when we showed her the Obama petition with her name and signature. She was stunned, saying that it “absolutely” was a fake.

    Charity told Fox News that her husband’s entry was also a forgery, and that they have never been contacted by investigators or any authorities looking into the scandal.

    “It’s scary, it’s shocking. It definitely is illegal,” she told us.

    Robert Hunter, Jr. told Fox news that his name was faked, too.

    “I did not sign for Barack Obama,” he told us. As he examined the Obama petition in his hands, Hunter pointed out that “I always put ‘Junior’ after my name, every time…there’s no ‘Junior’ there

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/26/officials-found-guilty-in-obama-clinton-ballot-petition-fraud/

    Again, meaning Mr Obama didn’t even have enough votes to have appeared on the ticket.

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  131. Fletch (6,021 comments) says:

    As far as D’Souza’s America, the film version has been given an incredibly rare A+ rating by CinemaScore.

    CinemaScore folks head to movie houses in five or six cities across the United States every Friday night and ask patrons to assign letter grades to the movie they’ve just watched, according to the Hollywood Reporter, adding that the results “serve as a fairly reliable indicator of whether a film will fly or fizzle.”

    In the last 29 years, only 52 films have received an A+ from CinemaScore, including seven Oscar Best Picture winners: “Gandhi,” “Driving Miss Daisy,” “Dances With Wolves,” “Schindler’s List,” “Forrest Gump,” “Titanic,” and “The King’s Speech.”

    The Reporter added that an A+ typically “signals a long, prosperous theatrical run.”

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/05/heres-the-list-of-legendary-films-dinesh-dsouzas-america-now-sits-next-to-because-of-the-incredibly-rare-grade-viewers-gave-it/

    http://www.wnd.com/2014/07/america-opening-strong-at-box-office/

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  132. stephieboy (2,176 comments) says:

    Interesting Fletch. You and Fox will no doubt beware of this gentleman ,Dinesh D’Souza , prominent darling of the right pleading guilty to the felony of campaign finance fraud.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-to-campaign-finance-fraud/

    I wonder if your Fox News is giving this the full and headline coverage it obviously deserves .?

    And this as well ,a spectacular case of Republican electoral fraud in Wisconsin ,

    http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/gops_voter_fraud_humiliation_turns_out_wisconsins_worst_case_is_a_republican/

    Here also where , ” The Republican party is certain that U.S. elections are rife with voter fraud. How are they so sure of that? Apparently because Republican operatives are the source of most of it…..”

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/06/21/shocker-republicans-account-for-most-cases-of-u-s-voter-fraud/

    Me oh My.!

    PS Pity D’ Sounza will likely be behind bars to fully appreciate the alleged “success ” of his fantasy biopic.

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  133. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    kowtow

    “Talks about freedom but hates the idea that free men can own weapons”

    Yes Kowtow, that second amendment has worked out well hasn’t it?. I take it you have no problem with the odd mass shooting at a school?

    “Or that a leader can have a faith or be elected by like minded free men.”

    “Men” of faith are not free Kowtow, to be religious is to be subservient. Free men would question your god, free men would soon toss aside the shackles of religion and learn to enjoy the one and only life we have.

    As for your last paragraph Kowtow, well it is so full of the usual religious based lies that I am not going to waste my time refuting those lies once again, I have done so many times yet you choose to ignore the truth.

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  134. stephieboy (2,176 comments) says:

    A rather more jaundiced view of convicted felon Dinesh D’Souza’s ego tripping movie,

    http://www.debbieschlussel.com/72961/america-dinesh-dsouza-ego-trip-gushes-over-al-qaeda-lawyer-rand-paul-whitewashes-bono-edward-snowden-costumed-in-patriotism/

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  135. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    Fletch

    “bruv, both 2008 and 2012 were very close elections for Obama.”

    I don’t believe that I suggested they were not. My point is that Obama won by default on both occasions.

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  136. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Child abuse files lost at Home Office spark fears of cover-up

    A dossier compiled by an MP detailing allegations of a 1980s Westminster paedophile ring is one of more than 100 potentially relevant Home Office files destroyed, lost or missing, it has emerged.

    The government faced fresh calls for an overarching inquiry into historical cases of paedophilia as it was revealed that a total of 114 Home Office files relevant to allegations of a child abuse network have disappeared from government records.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/05/lost-child-abuse-files-home-office

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  137. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    “Palin should leave the GOP and start a new party”

    Oh yes!!!!

    I would love her to do that, it would provide humour for decades. She could use Cruz as her warm up act, he could remind the crowd of how the world is only 6000 years old.

    To be fair though, Cruz is only half bat shit crazy. If he was to drop the god bothering crap he might even have a chance of going all the way. What a pity he will not.

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  138. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    I take it you have no problem with the odd mass shooting at a school?

    http://2012thebigpicture.wordpress.com/2014/06/14/obama-officials-confirm-sandy-hook-massacre-was-a-drill-and-no-children-died/

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  139. Ryan Sproull (7,029 comments) says:

    UglyTruth,

    http://2012thebigpicture.wordpress.com/2014/05/23/salusa-from-sirius-message-for-may-23rd/

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  140. mikenmild (10,688 comments) says:

    Ryan
    It’s almost as if you’re suggesting that blog is a load of codswallop.

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  141. RF (1,271 comments) says:

    I’m down in Christchurch sorting out some business. In the central city and suburbs there are large National hoardings for Nicky Wagner and others at major intersections and busy streets. There a dozens and dozens Guess what… Not one Labour poster. I am hearing that they are broke and unable to afford to advertise so it must be true.

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  142. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    UT

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  143. Zapper (926 comments) says:

    Even the West/Left Wing understand it better than Cunliffe.

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  144. OneTrack (2,601 comments) says:

    RF – “Not one Labour poster. I am hearing that they are broke and unable to afford to advertise so it must be true.”

    No, they are just holding off, deciding whether to put Cunliffes picture on them or not.

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  145. Fletch (6,021 comments) says:

    stephie, at least D’Souza has the balls to admit mistakes, not like Obama, who should be been convicted (of much worse) and thrown in jail years ago.

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  146. mikenmild (10,688 comments) says:

    Fletch, exactly what crimes do you think Obama has committed that warrant a jail sentence? Serious question.

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  147. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “exactly what crimes do you think Obama has committed that warrant a jail sentence? Serious question.”

    False citizenship, fast and furious, Bengazi, erosion of the constitution, uncritical support of massive police violence, Monsanto Protection Act. A layman’s perspective just to name a few.

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  148. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Griff,

    Tell me about the molten steel at 9/11. It shouldn’t exist according to the MSM account, but turns up in a photos and witnesses accounts.

    But facts and the science of thermodynamics are tinfoil hat territory, right Griff?

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  149. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    molten steel? according to eyewitnesses
    molten metal probably from the vast amounts of aluminum
    I am not playing feed the wingnut
    As already pointed out a million times to you
    The conspiracy you allege needs a huge force to be successfully played out
    If there was such an effort one of the eighteen separate spy agency in the USA would have discovered it let alone the fact that someone would have blown the whistle by now.

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  150. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    Eye witness accounts are not reliable.

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  151. publicwatchdog (2,103 comments) says:

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/precinct-properties-portfolio-value-increases-auckland-buildings-bd-158954

    “Precinct Properties New Zealand [NZX: PCT], the country’s third-biggest listed property investor by market value, expects to recognise a 5.5 percent gain in its portfolio’s value as Auckland real estate prices continue to climb. ..”

    Oh look – Precinct Properties, another Committee for Auckland member company doing really well out of Auckland.

    http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz/membership/member-organisations

    Surprise, surprise …………….

    NOT

    Penny Bright

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  152. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    molten metal probably from the vast amounts of aluminum

    No it was molten steel – the witnesses said so and the persistent heat says so. The surface temperature was hot enough to melt aluminium in places five days after the event. The molten steel was seen at the bottom of the elevator shafts IIRC.

    There’s a video out there of steel fused with concrete, you don’t get that from jet fuel and office combustibles.

    I am not playing feed the wingnut

    You’re the wingnut Griff, denying facts and science.

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  153. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Eye witness accounts are not reliable.

    They’re reliable enough to form the basis of fact in a court of law.

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  154. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    If there was such an effort one of the eighteen separate spy agency in the USA would have discovered it let alone the fact that someone would have blown the whistle by now.

    Sibel Edmonds is a former FBI translator. She blew the whistle on the cover-up of intelligence that names some of the culprits who orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. These culprits are protected by the Justice Department, the State Department, the FBI, the White House and the Senate Judiciary Committee. They are foreign nationals and Americans. Ms. Edmonds is under two gag orders that forbid her to testify in court or mention the names of the people or the countries involved.

    http://www.wanttoknow.info/911whistlebloweredmonds

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  155. Steve (North Shore) (4,499 comments) says:

    The “War Room” well it must be:

    https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/24420093/nz-stripper-entangled-in-vegas-gun-drama/

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  156. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth

    So let me get this right.

    We know you are a 9/11 Nutter, that much is clear. Are you now telling us that the Sandy Hook massacre did not happen either?

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  157. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Big bruv,

    You don’t get to call anyone a nutter until you can explain the molten steel.

    Griff ran away, what will you do?

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  158. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    Ugly

    I get to call you just whatever I want, in this case (and given your ridiculous assertions so far) I think the most accurate descriptor is “nutter”.

    Now, are you telling us that Sandy Hook did not happen?

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  159. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “For what it is worth, ShawnLH, time to bury the hatchet.:

    No worries, already have. Spats break out now and then on KB. It’s just the nature of blogs. I’ll leave the disagreement to you and DG.

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  160. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    I get to call you just whatever I want

    Not without being a first-class hypocrite.

    So you’re going to run away from the argument like Griff did, right?

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  161. Pete George (22,809 comments) says:

    The molten steel…

    The molten metal that conspiracy theorists point to are a glowing flow coming from the south tower window and molten steel found under ground zero.

    They suggest the glow is steel which is being cut by a thermite cutter charge reaction. They show photos of a thermite reaction burning a hole downward through a metal plate. Let’s forget for a moment that thermite doesn’t explode so the claims of hearing explosions become meaningless.

    The argument that there was thermite and explosives seems to be rationalization of this dilemma. Why would they use thermite which cuts steel without announcing it, then switch to explosives? To tip people off? No theory exist to explain this but the faithful simply say “We’re still working on it”. I’m sure they are.

    Let’s also give ourselves selective amnesia and pretend thermite can burn sideways to melt vertical columns. Maybe with some device but no working device has been proven to me to work. While there are relatively large canisters which can burn small holes sideways, I have yet to see this elusive steel cutting technique used to cut a vertical column.

    Then there is a patent of a device which has been brought up but as of yet there is no evidence the idea went any further. Does it even work? Anyone can make a patent but it doesn’t mean it exists or even works. Even if it did, they are “Ganged” together to make the cut according to the patent. You would still need these boxes all over the columns. It would be pretty absurd to suggest they moved the walls away from the columns just to fit these things around the columns.

    Of course they’ll say they didn’t suggest that but it goes without saying. Anyway, physicists aren’t supposed to know these things. I will give Jones the benefit of the doubt and say he and the other “Scholars for truth” may not know how to use Google. We’ll chalk this up to old scholars who hate computers. (We’ll also forget that professors are supposed to know how to do research. Though that one is a little tougher for me…)

    The last thing we are to ignore is that this thermite charge didn’t go off during the impact and decided to go off later. Yes, thermite needs a very hot source or primary explosive to go off but this primary explosive didn’t go off either. (Enter sound of explosives right?

    Wrong, the sounds were described as happening at the time of collapse. From what I’ve seen of thermite, it needs longer than microseconds to work on thick steel.) Jones’ torch on the thermite proves it needs other means of setting it off but it doesn’t prove a thing for whatever is supposed to set it off. That would still be very volatile in the fires. I have yet to see this 1,100C fireproof container and radio controlled primary explosive combination some have rationalized. This seems to exist because they need it to exist.

    http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

    I just thought I would throw this in here but I’m not going to debate it.

    Plane hit building, fire, collapse. Some stuff melted.

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  162. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    I really can’t believe that the 911 conspiracy lunacy is being thrashed out again.

    We can explain the molten metal misconceptions Ugly believes in till the cows come home. It’s not about facts for him, it’s a part of his quasi – Islamic/anti-Zionist belief system. Facts don’t come into it. If something bad happens, it’s always going to be the evil Jew…..sorry, “Zionists”…. as far as he is concerned.

    Gotta be something new to argue about. :)

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  163. dad4justice (7,765 comments) says:

    Ugly and big blouse at each other. I thought they were the same sad soul.

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  164. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    Ugly

    There is no point at all discussing 9/11 with you as you are clearly insane. What I would like to know is if that level of dangerous insanity extends as far as shitting all over the graves of the sandy hook victims and their families?

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  165. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    “Gotta be something new to argue about. :)

    God?

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  166. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    PG, Jones is a fake, attempts to debunk him do not address the fact that the MSM narrative can’t explain the existence of the molten steel.

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  167. dad4justice (7,765 comments) says:

    “There is no point at all discussing 9/11 with you as you are clearly insane”

    Clearly big blouse is talking to himself in the cracked mirror.

    God help the unhinged lost soul.

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  168. Viking2 (11,128 comments) says:

    Isn’t it interesting.

    The Nats. and Labour have ruled the roost for years. Donations have been made, hidden, and all that.

    This year we have three political parties, small but with bigger backers who have made bigger donations than have ever been revealed by the two established brands.

    What do we suppose this tells us?

    Perhaps that the Brands are not liked well enough to attract the support of people with real money to spend.
    Perhaps the brands have no sound and solid principles upon which people have enough faith that the brand should be supported.

    It actually makes the fund raising efforts of those at the Brands look rather amateurish. It makes the Williams and Bogues etc rather poor at their roles, or does it. Does it not tell us that there is no fire in the belly of the Brands supporters to donate to their Brands.

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  169. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    There is no point at all discussing 9/11 with you as you are clearly insane.

    You can’t explain the molten steel so I’m the one who is insane?

    What a fucking tosser you are.

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  170. dad4justice (7,765 comments) says:

    “What a fucking tosser you are.”

    The biggest tosser on this blog fugley.

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  171. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    We can explain the molten metal misconceptions

    Still the same old liar, Shawn Lee Herles.

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  172. dad4justice (7,765 comments) says:

    Oh fugley shall I reveal the real name of you and big blouse? Sad soul. God help you.

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  173. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    dad4justice, can you explain the molten steel or are you only capable of flinging shit from the sidelines?

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  174. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Plane hit building, fire, collapse. Some stuff melted.

    The tower fire didn’t burn hot enough to produce molten steel. The highest estimate of the tower fire temperature I’ve seen is 700 degrees, but the surface temperature reached 747 degrees five days after the event.

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  175. Johnboy (14,973 comments) says:

    Left over sparklers from the Fourth of July celebrations ugly? :)

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  176. Yvette (2,690 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth – get a fucking life

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  177. dad4justice (7,765 comments) says:

    “dad4justice, can you explain the molten steel or are you only capable of flinging shit from the sidelines?”

    Indeed I can fugley , when big blouse reads my comments here on kiwiblog he gets so hot he can melt steel.

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  178. Johnboy (14,973 comments) says:

    If you ever feel you need one of those I can help you Yvette! :)

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  179. ShawnLH (3,310 comments) says:

    “Still the same old liar, Shawn Lee Herles.”

    Let me use one of your own phrases.

    You don’t get to call me a liar while you cover up and make excuses for my countries and my families enemies.

    And just to be clear, I mean radical/militant Islam, not Israel.

    I don’t always get along with or agree with BB, but compared to you he’s saint with with masters degree in physics.

    Anyway, gotta go. It’s an elimination night on MKR. :)

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  180. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    You don’t get to call me a liar while you cover up and make excuses for my countries and my families enemies.

    I don’t cover up for anyone, you lying sack of shit.

    “We can explain the molten metal misconceptions” ~ Shawn Lee Herles

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  181. Yvette (2,690 comments) says:

    Thankyou, Johnboy, for the offer
    It’s just that some people, same bloody thing day after day, so achieve that same stupid reaction, day after day, get a little boring. Einstein warned of that.
    Ugly – yes; truth – nowhere fucking near it

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  182. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    Ugly

    My word you do get worked up about this don’t you.

    Have you ever stopped to think, or, wonder why it is that only you (and morons like you) are the only ones who think that 9/11 was anything other than what we all witnessed live in TV?

    You actually insult the memories of all that died that day, it also seems you are happy to piss all over the graves of the kids killed at Sandy Hook.

    You’re one very, very sick person.

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  183. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Ugly – yes; truth – nowhere fucking near it

    Can you name one thing I’ve said that isn’t true, Yvette?

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  184. Johnboy (14,973 comments) says:

    Frustrations are everywhere Yvette. I like to forget all of mine in bed! :)

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  185. stigie (908 comments) says:

    Was the towers bought down by planes or not Ugly ?

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  186. freemark (445 comments) says:

    Ugly, I and a few others have already explained how the apparently molten steel could easily have come about, many times.
    You OTOH keep on coming back with the same shit, from fellow nutters and their conspiracy web sites.
    IMO maybe the Internet needs some cleaning up, it’s creating fools like you in a never ending link circle…
    In saying that, I wouldn’t put it past the Socialists to have set the whole thing up to reinforce their anti-capitalism, jewry, straight white men hatred…

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  187. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Big bruv: still no explanation for the molten steel, just like all the other fuckwits who think that the MSM is a reliable source of information.

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  188. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Ugly, I and a few others have already explained how the apparently molten steel could easily have come about, many times.

    Link?

    You OTOH keep on coming back with the same shit, from fellow nutters and their conspiracy web sites.

    Ad hominem noted.

    How do you explain the firefighter who described molten steel? (One of many witnesses)

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  189. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    Yip I can Ugly Tinfoil.
    You called spawn a sack of shit
    without doubt there is shit inside him
    but
    he ain’t a sack of it

    And

    You said I ran away.
    When I actually went and did the shopping.

    lair lair your tin foil hat is slipping and your meds need adjusting.

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  190. dad4justice (7,765 comments) says:

    “You’re one very, very sick person.”

    At least you understand your U.B.F big blouse.

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  191. Yvette (2,690 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth – consider most of your ancient “common” law references –
    you are living in a different age trying to deal with the molten steel of 9/11

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  192. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    D4J

    Ever wonder why you keep stalking me?

    There has to be the odd moment when you have a brief window of lucidity that you stop and think “there must be more to life than being a stalker”

    You do exhibit some worrying traits D4J, from what I have observed you demonstrate symptoms of Narcissism, Psychosis and infatuation, along with your well documented temper issues.

    Clearly you need help.

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  193. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    You called spawn a sack of shit
    without doubt there is shit inside him
    but
    he ain’t a sack of it

    Get a grip, Griff, it’s a figure of speech.

    You said I ran away.
    When I actually went and did the shopping.

    In context, I meant that you had run away from the argument about the molten steel.

    Can you explain the molten steel, or are you going to ignore the issue like the rest of the fuckwits who don’t believe that large scale conspiracies exist?

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  194. dad4justice (7,765 comments) says:

    Whatever blouse your display is being recorded. In due time all will be revealed. People need to know how your hatred become pathological. David knows.

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  195. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    you are living in a different age trying to deal with the molten steel of 9/11

    No, I’m living in the present. Since you apparently don’t deny that it exists, can you explain where the energy came from that melted it?

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  196. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    Whatever D4J, whatever.

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  197. RRM (9,447 comments) says:

    Wow, just wow… :neutral:

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  198. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Was the towers bought down by planes or not Ugly ?

    No, they were not. The initial theory was of “pancake collapse”, but when the did a physical test on the materials they found that it couldn’t happen.

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  199. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    “when they did a physical test on the materials”

    Who are “they”?

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  200. Yvette (2,690 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth – Regarding molten steel 9/11
    Since you apparently don’t deny that it exists, can you explain where the energy came from that melted it?

    I didn’t in any way say it exists. That is possibly where you are such a fuckwit – pretending to read, but not seeing what is written. You need to return to some basics for the good of your being.

    [Why is the Truth ugly?]

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  201. Johnboy (14,973 comments) says:

    Alan Reay consultants bb? :)

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  202. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    I think you might be right Johnboy

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  203. Johnboy (14,973 comments) says:

    I luv it when you talk dirty Yvette! :)

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  204. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Ugly, I and a few others have already explained how the apparently molten steel could easily have come about, many times.

    You’re a liar like ShawnLH, freemark.

    “Every day it seems that many of us disprove & expose UT, Griff, Ms Dim, (Hue)Ross69 et al. But they keep coming back with more fucked up bullshit.” ~ freemark

    Link

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  205. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    I didn’t in any way say it exists.

    You implied that it did, Yvette.

    You said: “you are living in a different age trying to deal with the molten steel of 9/11″

    [Why is the Truth ugly?]

    It isn’t always ugly.

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  206. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and fucken spinner Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and
    round and round and round and round and round and round Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and drive us mad

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  207. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Griff, I reckon you won’t address the issue because it would show that large scale conspiracies can happen, and that would put the “adjustment” of the global temperature data in a whole new light…

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  208. Yvette (2,690 comments) says:

    You said: “you are living in a different age trying to deal with the molten steel of 9/11″

    Your position, Ugly, not mine
    Read Griff, just above.
    Try and find something new to worry about, Ugly, nearer home.

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  209. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Your position, Ugly, not mine

    You implicitly validated it by referring to it as being real.

    “That is possibly where you are such a fuckwit – pretending to read, but not seeing what is written” ~ Yvette

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  210. nasska (10,659 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4j1qsi3m8q2a7d6/radio_hat1950.gif

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  211. Johnboy (14,973 comments) says:

    …and round and round and drive us mad”

    Worked on you then Griff? :)

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  212. Yvette (2,690 comments) says:

    Bed might be fun, Johnboy, if we take into account the results of cancer, and consider sleep apnea, costochondritis, and tachycardia or even talking dirty. See, as challenging as barbed wire, nes pas?

    But what was the Eastbourne coffee bar you recommended on the waterfront? I like 2 instant, 1 Bavarian, and 1 mint essence in the same cup.

    I’ve given up on Ugly – to each his own

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  213. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    I am already mad.
    I come here for entertainment JB

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  214. Johnboy (14,973 comments) says:

    You’re the last person here to give up on Ugly Yvette. Everyone else did that years ago! :)

    Twas the Lighthouse Pub but Reid has since moved to Hamilton.

    He shows no taste at all I am sad to say! :)

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  215. freemark (445 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (3,837 comments) says:
    July 9th, 2014 at 8:44 pm
    Ugly, I and a few others have already explained how the apparently molten steel could easily have come about, many times.

    You’re a liar like ShawnLH, freemark.

    “Every day it seems that many of us disprove & expose UT, Griff, Ms Dim, (Hue)Ross69 et al. But they keep coming back with more fucked up bullshit.” ~ freemark

    Link

    Thanks for reminding me & others that I’m on to it Ugly. But I’m amazed how your so called “evidence”, from “some fireman”, who without a shadow of a doubt positively ID’d some apparently molten steel at the bottom of some buildings that had been burning up large has proved some (the world’s biggest ever) conspiracy, and all those people who saw and filmed the planes hit are part of it..etc, etc, etc…
    Obviously the great social experiment of giving Internet access to the criminally insane was a big fucking mistake.

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  216. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    Thanks for reminding me & others that I’m on to it Ugly.

    Appealing to the liars guild isn’t likely to work here, freemark.

    But I’m amazed how your so called “evidence”, from “some fireman”, who without a shadow of a doubt positively ID’d some apparently molten steel at the bottom of some buildings that had been burning up large

    Like I’ve said previously, the tower fires didn’t burn hot enough to melt steel. There were other witnesses who reported molten steel, and a photo of molten steel dripping from what looked like a chunk of I-beam. Also the 747 deg C surface temp and the persistent heat.

    has proved some (the world’s biggest ever) conspiracy

    All it proves is that there was an energy source that the MSM isn’t talking about.

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  217. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    Actually freemark you are a little bit of a brain dead moron on reading that.
    you have disproved the opinion of every major scientific body in the world ? were is your Nobel prize for science then wing nut

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  218. freemark (445 comments) says:

    “you have disproved the opinion of every major scientific body in the world”
    “All it proves is that there was an energy source that the MSM isn’t talking about”
    hahahahahahahaha…
    You guys (girls?) are not serious, surely?
    Do you conspire on your comments before exposing them to (understandable) ridicule here?
    Where is nursey..does she know that you are still up playing with the grown-ups?
    Thanks for the mild entertainment anyway, you certainly give me a superiority complex when I’m feeling blue – is this your campaign against big pharma?

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  219. Griff (6,750 comments) says:

    Free mark I am referring to your comment that griff is a loony who is spurting bullshit
    every major scientific body in the world except one supports my position on climate change
    the only dissenter is strangely enough the American institute of oil engineers
    in this matter you are no different than ugly a whacko conspiracy not job getting you information from blogs and tabloid news story’s
    feel free to collect your noble prize when you disprove what is accepted science.

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  220. UglyTruth (3,985 comments) says:

    And what’s the bet that you fucktards don’t think that the US is hiding anything about UFO’s, either…

    http://theobjectreport.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/the-top-20-most-significant-pieces-of.html

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  221. MH (624 comments) says:

    They had a tower in Babel, they all seem to come down in the end.

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  222. Manolo (13,362 comments) says:

    Madness in the US: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/8/obama-requests-37-billion-fight-surge-illegals/

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  223. Viking2 (11,128 comments) says:

    The woman at the centre of a case involving an alleged sex attack by a Malaysian diplomat say Prime Minister John Key looked “bored” and insincere when he publicly discussed her case.

    Yes well I would agree with this. Key has looked this way all this year. bored, tired, and way past his best.
    IMHO Taking on too much as CEO, propping up useless Ministers like Smith, Paerata and others.

    Not going to be much chop after the election.

    The handling of this case is appalling. The Nats failed dismally to put right quickly what was wrong and blandly have brushed it off. For all her bad points Helen would have sorted this quick smart.

    Massive fail on the Nats part and while the MFAT have plenty to answer for the buck stops in Cabinet for this. Their PR is like it always is with the Nats. fucking hopeless.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10250645/Alleged-diplomat-victim-criticises-John-Key

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  224. Viking2 (11,128 comments) says:

    Colin Craig should attack McCully for his really don’t care attitude to this attack on a young woman. Should be enough to take the seat from this longtime trough swiller.

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