How did they get away with it?

July 4th, 2014 at 7:00 am by David Farrar

It seems incredible that both and Jimmy Saville both abused scores, if not hundreds, of young women and girls, and only decades later has it come to light.

It makes you wonder what were the circumstances that allowed them to get away with it for so long. Here’s my 2c on it:

  1. The times. Nowadays if a celebrity perved on you, more and more girls would kick them in the nuts (as they should) and Facebook or tweet what happened. Back in the 50s, 60s and 70s, it was far harder to tell people
  2. Their charity work. They often preyed on girls while doing charity work. That probably played on their guilt, that they didn’t want to say anything in case it harmed the charity
  3. Would they be believed? They didn’t realise hundreds of other girls had had the same thing happen to them. Why say anything, if you’ll not be believed.
  4. The Police. The UK Police seemed to have a see no evil, hear no evil attitude in those days, when it comes to celebrities.
  5. Institutional cover ups. The BBC, the hospitals and others had all heard the rumours. Some were open secrets. Rather than act on the rumours, they preferred to just hope they weren’t true. They were wrong.

Could this happen in NZ today? I hope not.

One can only feel for the scores of victims who had to spend decades thinking that this had happened to them only.

UPDATE: National MP Maggie Barry has revealed that Rolf Harris groped her when she was interviewing him, when she was in her 20s. Again, so many victims.

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130 Responses to “How did they get away with it?”

  1. RRM (9,917 comments) says:

    Some paedophiles get caught, and some don’t… presumably the ones that don’t are those more adept at manipulating their victims?

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  2. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    ….”Could this happen in NZ today?”….

    There’s a lot less chance of it happening today & mostly because of the information the kids are given from an early age. I’ll be the first to knock NZ educational authorities & teachers but their “keeping yourself safe” programmes are well designed & exactly what was needed.

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  3. MT_Tinman (3,184 comments) says:

    Jimmy Saville has never been convicted of anything.

    Many so-called “offenders” unearthed during the recent “investigations” have been found innocent.

    I have yet to be convinced the majority of accusations are not simply a slime beat-up.

    Harris on the other hand was known to be iffy.

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  4. peterwn (3,271 comments) says:

    Could this happen in NZ today? Seems it happened all over the place and not just celebrities – for these five reasons. It is all coming out of the woodwork now in NZ and overseas now the victims feel they can talk. Imagine a school pupil being punished for daring to complain that he was abused by a teacher (a former Catholic principal in Australia was charged with assault for such punishments).

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  5. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    How did they get away with it?

    Possibly in the same manner the just convicted ex Cop (Surf Lifesaving Club) managed to do it – apparently he told his victims no-one would believe them because he was a cop.

    Totally appalling behaviour from someone who was supposed to represent a uniform kids could turn to and trust. Instead, he was a total scumbag.

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  6. Michael Baker (1 comment) says:

    Will we see a never-ending crusade against the BBC similiar to that which has been set against the Catholic Church? Doubt it. Once the sensational aspect of this goes it’ll be yesteday’s news.
    As the point has been made many times in this forum, while inexcusable, the failings of priests and the Church are the same things dogging all large influential institutions: the BBC, the NZ Police, public schools, churches, political parties, etc. Do we say “if only Rolf Harris was allowed to get married”?, “if only the BBC had more liberal views on sex”? No. because that has nothing to do with it.
    While it may not have always been the case, experts do now recognise Catholic churches as some of the safest places for children. Can we say that about NZ schools at the moment?
    I’m not saying this to indemnify the Church for past mistakes, but rather challenge people on where they throw their energy.

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  7. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    Kids might not be believed – but adults are – so why didn’t those girls speak up sooner as adults???

    The lesson is this: If you don’t report sexual abuse, then more victims are sure to follow.

    “……Some paedophiles get caught, and some don’t… presumably the ones that don’t are those more adept at manipulating their victims?…….”

    I’d think so RRM.

    Harris apparently joked with the kids as usual, then got into the sick stuff, then went straight back to joking with the kid – to imprint into the kid’s mind that it either didn’t actually take place, or was part of the ‘fun’. He also used to befriend the kids in the company of their parents.

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  8. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    It’s slowly improving but many victims still find it hard to speak up and confront abuse. The recent ‘roast busters’ case is proof of that. A notable exception is the complainant in the Malaysian diplomat case.

    MT-Tinman – the weight of complaints against Saville are very heavy.

    And Rolf Harris: Maggie Barry on RadioLive this morning:

    “In the studio he started to do the old wandering hands thing and I stood up and I said ‘well you can stop that right now’… for a few moments I just saw his really nasty side.”

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  9. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    I don’t know what Maggie Barry is moaning about, Rolf was only trying to examine her gladioli.

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  10. MT_Tinman (3,184 comments) says:

    Pete, none of the evidence has been tried in court.

    Of those close to Saville none have been convicted.

    I don’t doubt Saville was not quite the innocent but do doubt most of the unsubstantiated claims against him. The hint of money produces all sorts of strange “memories”.

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  11. tvb (4,417 comments) says:

    Victims of abuse in many cases just want to bury it and move on. They even suppress the memories. There is damage of course. They have difficulty trusting people, they are unable to form relationships, and are sexually dysfunctional. Some of this can be cured. A Court case does not in many cases solve the problem. It involves taking action against a trusted and loved family member. And recalling events that have been buried. So these crimes frequently go unpunished. Families can deal with these problems discretely by placing strategies in place that does not put the abuser in high risk situations with children and hope that nothing can happen.

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  12. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    He tried to feel up Maggie!!! What an arsehole.

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  13. Martin Gibson (246 comments) says:

    The image of jimmy saville as the lone eccentric pervert has been widespread, but if you look at his connections and immense wealth considering his career as a BBC TV presenter wrapped up years before his death it’s worth considering he may have been a procurer of kids for elites who won’t end up in court.

    No one seems to want to join those dots, possibly with good reason.

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  14. Barnsley Bill (983 comments) says:

    Could it happen in NZ today?
    Bwahahahaha. How quickly we forget the ex lab MP who did a Lord Lucan and now lives in London.
    How many different groups helped him dodge that problem.

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  15. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “He tried to feel up Maggie!!! What an arsehole.”

    The cheek of it!

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  16. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    I’ve said it a few times, I’ve yet to hear of an organisation or group of people who has handled allegations like this well.

    Ok, that’s not really true, there probably have been a few good ones here and there – especially recently. But the point is that there are dozens of organisations I’ve heard of, religious and secular, who’ve had sex abuse allegations rise up and handled them badly or ignored them.

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  17. Griff (7,683 comments) says:

    Could it happen here? Now?
    short memory spans……..!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Capill

    On 23 March 2005 Capill appeared in the Christchurch District Court charged with indecently assaulting a girl aged under 12. On leaving the court he was assaulted (“punched and left whimpering on the ground”) by local sickness beneficiary Daniel McNally, a former boxer.[2] The media referred to Capill, who was then under a name-suppression order, as “a prominent New Zealander”.[3] McNally, who had no previous connection to the case, received a two-year prison sentence for the assault.[4] On 1 April 2005 name suppression was lifted and Capill pleaded guilty to a charge of indecently assaulting an eight-year old girl on four occasions.[5] These events took place between the years of 2001 and 2002, while Capill was still leader of Christian Heritage. His activities were brought to an end by the Rev Wally Behan, vicar of St John’s Anglican Church, Latimer Square, Christchurch, the church which the Capill family attended. Rev Behan was acting on information received from some of the victims. Further charges of rape and indecent assault against girls aged under 12 (committed during the 1990s) followed.[6][7] As Capill had strongly condemned “sexual perversion” throughout his political career, the revelations had particular impact.

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  18. artemisia (242 comments) says:

    Back in the 50s and 60s there was not the ‘language’ we have now to describe incidents, especially if there was an emotional content. So it was very difficult to name what happened, especially for young people. Hard to understand now that the language, or lack of, was so different back then.

    Not only that but there was much more of a behind-closed-doors culture in which it was shameful for victims to admit what was happening even if there was someone who would listen. Police had a different attitude to ‘domestics’ then, which were not treated in the same way as other assaults.

    All of this I saw many times, including in my own home.

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  19. Akaroa (557 comments) says:

    The aspect that intrigues me about this Saville/Harris business is the way that public perceptions have changed over the years.

    People my age – (70s) – can probably remember the early days of Beatlemania when hordes of screaming girls used to envelop the Beatles wherever they appeared and – literally – throw themselves at them.

    It was par for the course for items of female underwear – bras, panties – to be flung at them at times, and their hotel suites had to be Fort-Knox secure to prevent eager teeny-boppers from getting into their beds.

    This was all part of the ‘Swinging Sixties’ when Christine Keeler and her mates and their male opposites dominated some aspects of the news. Not to mention plenty of run-of-the-mill bands and pop-groups who took advantage of silly females who wanted a piece of them.

    No!. Current strait-laced public morality is a far cry from those feee-wheeling, sex-oriented pop music days!!

    I don’t condone Saville and Harris – but they were just sexual dinosaurs who had outlived their age!

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  20. tvb (4,417 comments) says:

    There may have been a higher tolerance of Harris and his cuddles in earlier times, but the abuse goes on.

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  21. Manolo (13,746 comments) says:

    The prophet Muhammad got away with it, and today is even followed by hundreds of millions! :D

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  22. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    Griff, in the case you’ve pointed to, the allegations were handled seriously and professionally as soon as the victim came forward.

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  23. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Manolo proving that he’s still big on slander:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/06/general_debate_24_june_2014.html#comment-1347316

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  24. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    No one seems to want to join those dots, possibly with good reason.

    http://21stcenturywire.com/2012/10/15/jimmy-savile-doorman-to-the-cesspit/

    One of Savile’s nephews, Guy Marsden, now 59, has said publicly this week that he and his friends were taken to parties by his uncle in the late 1960s to ‘act as intermediaries for adults and younger children’. He said that the parties were attended by ‘household names’ in showbusiness, but only men – never women. Marsden, then 13, and some friends from Leeds in the north of England, ran away to London for ‘an adventure’, he said. They were approached by men at Euston railway station and invited to a grubby flat. Then about four days later Savile turned up at the flat by coincidence because Marsden soon learned that his famous uncle mixed with ‘fellow child molesters’.

    The Dutroux Affair:

    This case was explosive because Dutroux was a small cog in a sex-slave ring involving powerful people. His accomplice in the kidnappings, Michel Lelievre, testified, ‘Marc always told me that he kidnapped girls for people who had placed an order with him.’ He killed An and Eefje because the people who placed the order ‘weren’t interested in them.’

    The orders came from a man named Michel Nihoul. A career criminal involved in financial fraud and drug trafficking, Nihoul had connections to the highest echelons of the Belgian establishment.

    http://www.henrymakow.com/the_detroux_case.html

    Warning: some of the material from the link is pretty hard core.

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  25. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    Actually, Ugly’s comments remind me of the Investigate story a few years back about some events in Dunedin in the 90s. Perhaps it’s time to open a formal inquiry into those?

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  26. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    scrubone

    ….”Griff, in the case you’ve pointed to, the allegations were handled seriously and professionally as soon as the victim came forward.”….

    Agreed, it was well handled & all credit is due to the NZ Police…..in many countries they would have closed ranks to protect one of their own.

    Worth considering although whether the Christian parents of the kids did not unwittingly set them up for the abuse…..they are generally taught to obey authority from an early age & not to question their elders, especially those in the church.

    In any case the alarm bells should have sounded for the parents earlier. Could they have been ignored because they took their eyes off the ball while trying to dictate the morals of everyone else, giving the paedophile they had invited into their midst plenty of time to molest their kids?

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  27. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    The sickest thing about the Harris case for me is that he was brought out here in 1986 as part of a campaign to prevent child abuse. Because I have a memory for trivia, I actually remember the words of a song he taught the kids and then sang along with them:

    “My boy’s no bodies body but mine…you mind your own body, let me mind mine”

    And all the time the dirty bastard was preying on kids here…

    I don’t think anyone should be gleeful about an 84 year old man dying in jail…but Jake the Ped has only himself to blame..

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  28. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    Agreed, it was well handled & all credit is due to the NZ Police

    Actually, most of the credit for this one goes to the church from what I’ve heard from non-media sources. That’s where you would have had the cover-up and it didn’t happen. Indeed, the church actually uncovered more of the situation as time went on.

    Yea, the “respect authority” line – heard that before. I’ve even seen people try to claim that Capill became a minister for the authority. It’s nonsense. Respecting authority is expected and done, but sexual perversion is actively preached against.

    Also nice attack there on the parent (corrected). You disgust me.

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  29. kowtow (8,439 comments) says:

    Well,well,well, we managed to get some 20 comments and 2 hours into the debate before the inevitable anti Christian bigots opened up with blame the christians ,narsekisser with his “taught to obey authority,not question elders,especially those in the church”

    Akaroa is closer to the truth ,with his comments on the sexual revolution of the 60’s and 70’s ,brought to us by the so called progressives with their loose morality,drugs ,sexualising of all aspects of life etc

    We are reaping as we sowed.

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  30. kowtow (8,439 comments) says:

    Could this happen in New Zealand today?

    It did in 2012.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/113931/lawyer-says-school-ignored-warning-over-teacher

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  31. Griff (7,683 comments) says:

    Credit is also due to Wally Behan, vicar of St John’s Anglican Church in the Capill case.
    Hopefully some of our other established churches will follow the Anglican policy’s on child abuse reporting within its community.

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  32. Redbaiter (8,801 comments) says:

    “the inevitable anti Christian bigots opened up with blame the christians ,narsekisser with his”

    Its OCD.

    The poor hillbilly loser is out of his tree for sure.

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  33. Nigel (514 comments) says:

    I don’t think it could happen as widespread in that industry nowadays in NZ anyway.
    I do think it would be interesting if Australia did a review of the tv industry there, there’s a few producers I would imagine who’d rather that not occur.
    In reality, I think it’ll be like the Irish ‘troubles’, the odd one like Saville/Harris will be caught, but alot will just slide into history.
    Kinda bad to be British Paints marketing about now though :).

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  34. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    As a teenager during the 70’s, we were told to stay away from ‘the dirty ol’ bugga’, and yet, that same ‘dirty ol’ bugga’ was always invited to social events, and tolerated by the community in general, and seemed not to be rejected for their filthy perversions. If by chance someone did stick their hand where it shouldn’t go, you were taught to ‘laugh it off’ but stay away, or as my mother taught me, put them in their place at the time by stating loud enough for everyone to here ‘stop touching my bum’ or whatever. It seemed to work.

    Whilst there is obviously some truth to the complaints, I do question the sheer velocity of them, and the fact that the supposed victims appear to be so ‘hurt’ now, but managed to live decades, some still retaining their friendship and even seeking out the company of their abuser. It smacks a little too much of ‘kindergarten teachers dancing naked around a fire, whilst they sacrificed one of the children’ (chch), to me. I’m sure no one needs to be reminded of Peter Ellis.

    $11 million dollars is a big incentive to suddenly feel ‘damaged’ by an action that really didn’t bother you that much decades ago.

    “Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear.”

    ― Edgar Allan Poe

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  35. lazza (381 comments) says:

    Yep Agree with all Slim Dave.

    What these recent events have signalled is that many (not just the perverts and worse) public figures are prone to become? sociopaths.

    Think the double lives of Len Brown. the legendary Ausssie League Player, Lew Vincent and a hellava lot of the pollies. Cunners may be a mild case .. but he too sure “shows the signs” Capill proves both points.

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  36. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    Kowtow: I don’t know if you know the details of Capill’s offending…and more particularly just who at least one of his victims was…can you blame someone for bringing up that case here? There was a man, not only clergy in his church, but an active and vocal campaigner against “sexual perversion”…So he is not only guilty of sex abuse, a breach of trust of the worst kind, but a blinding hypocrite to boot…How is he not a natural subject to be brought up? I would have said his offending was actually WORSE than Harris’

    Judith, Judith…aren’t you a candidate for a doctorate? You are questioning the “sheer velocity” of the complaints?

    Thirty years later doesn’t seem particularly speedy to me…

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  37. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    Akaroa is closer to the truth ,with his comments on the sexual revolution of the 60′s and 70′s ,brought to us by the so called progressives with their loose morality,drugs ,sexualising of all aspects of life etc

    We are reaping as we sowed.

    Some. But the atheists do have a point – this stuff has been happening in churches that preach against all those things, and the churches have handled it badly when it has come to light (point I made above).

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  38. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (6,073 comments) says:
    July 4th, 2014 at 10:09 am

    In the last week over 30 more complaints have been received. It was the speed of which the complaints are now being made that I was referring to.

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  39. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “There was a man, not only clergy in his church, but an active and vocal campaigner against “sexual perversion”…So he is not only guilty of sex abuse, a breach of trust of the worst kind, but a blinding hypocrite to boot…”

    You forgot right wing politician and NZ Police prosecutor.

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  40. ChardonnayGuy (1,206 comments) says:

    Have to say that I hope that Harris dies in prison and is not treated with excessive leniency due to his advanced current age, due to his reprehensible record of serial offending. I am also gravely disappointed with the BBC’s failure to deal adequately with further accusations of abuse against Harris. Hopefully, they will be compelled to release any further information under the terms of the ongoing Operation Yewtree in Jimmy Saville’s monstrous record of serial pedophilia and its enablement and possible concealment.

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  41. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    Judith and DG #

    Kids might not be believed – but adults are – so why didn’t those girls speak up sooner as adults?

    The lesson is this: If you don’t report sexual abuse, then more victims are sure to follow.

    Those 7-12 yld girls speaking up at 18 or 20 would have stopped him in the 80’s or 90’s or early 00’s.

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  42. Redbaiter (8,801 comments) says:

    ” I am also gravely disappointed with the BBC’s failure to deal adequately with further accusations of abuse ”

    BBC is an iconic secular progressive organisation too.

    But that’s OK.

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  43. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Don’t forget NZ Police doctor Morgan (fingers) Fahey.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=138943

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  44. anticorruptionnz (215 comments) says:

    Yes this does happen in New Zealand

    a persons perceived reputation out weighs evidence

    I have been screwed by this concept in another manner

    I raised an issue of corruption with regards to a well respected person who was so well known to parliament that he both wrote and advised on legislation

    He was so well trusted that no one checked to see if he was telling the truth and as a result law enforcement powers were given to a fictional organization .

    feeling rather stupid, those involved became part of the cover up because their necks would also be int eh noose for negligence and it was therefore easier to take me out than it was to admit to what had happened.

    8 years later I am still suffering the fall out from it.No investigation has been done, the police have a file b ut it is being thrown round the office like a hot potato .

    We have defamation laws to take care of any allegation agaisnt a so called reputable person and the first thing that happens is that the victim is warned of defamation.

    In my case I was not worried as I knew I had done nothing but speak the truth , I was not to know that in civil jurisdiction you are not assured of a fair trial. My defence of truth and honest opinion were struck out when I could not come up with some $12,000 within two weeks .

    Even at Quantum when I put evidence of mitigation up and showed that the person had written two contradictory papers, I said they cant be both right he has propensity to tell lies. the judge wacked me another $7500 for continuing to defame when no decision that i had defamed Neil Wells had ever been made , it was based on a fraudulent statement of claim which was unsupported by affidavits and accepted as truth.

    as discussed earlier the police have no time to investigate and deal with serious matters including perjury .

    with no potential to prosecuted for perjury how can we expect truth in court and hence how can we have justice.

    Hence my petition for a commission agaisnt corruption .

    Grace Haden Independent for Epsom.

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  45. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    Jack: for once I wont mock your pseud…Yes, Police Prosecutor too…What an absolute disgrace of a man…I imagine he would have spent every minute of his sentence in terror, even though he was no doubt “in seg” throughout…even some of the fiddlers in with him would have found him somewhat beyond the pale..

    Judith: Just admit you wrote “velocity” instead of the intended “volume”! You are just making yourself look silly…something you seem to find rather easy…

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  46. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Kids might not be believed – but adults are – so why didn’t those girls speak up sooner as adults?”

    Why didn’t Maggie Barry speak up when it happened to her?

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  47. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    Rolf Harris got away with it for so long because as a super celeb back in his heyday 1960s- 70s no one would of believed him ,least his victims. It is that fact that must of made him feel bullet proof reinforced by a large dose of denial, including maybe those close to him, in the entertainment industry.
    I see Baggy Barry claims he even tried to paw over her during a Radio interview.
    The appalling Graeme Capill is aslo one who at the height of Christian Heritage and his pastorship must of felt invulnerable.
    Redbaiter do take note.!

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  48. kowtow (8,439 comments) says:

    DG

    Not talking about griff’s ,one can see that that is balanced as it shows Rev Wally Behan blew the whistle.

    I reffered specifically to n’arsekisser,by name and quote.

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  49. Redbaiter (8,801 comments) says:

    “Why didn’t Maggie Barry speak up when it happened to her?”

    Maybe she didn’t need the publicity then.

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  50. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “I imagine he would have spent every minute of his sentence in terror”

    I doubt it, Daniel McNally should have been awarded a gong, instead he got 2 years in the pokey.

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  51. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Harriet (4,413 comments) says:
    July 4th, 2014 at 10:17 am

    Exactly Harriet. Why didn’t they speak up, its not as if women haven’t been given a ‘voice’ in the last 40 years, that has allowed them to speak out about such things. It’s not as if rape, sexual abuse and similar such things have not been in the public domain and been part of social discourse over that period of time.

    And what about recent victims? Where are they? Paedophilia is a life long condition. It is a condition of the sick mind, not a physical condition. One doesn’t simply stop being a pedophile because they are too old. A sexual attraction to an immature body remains for life. But is this paedophilia?

    If these victims believed he was such a danger, then why didn’t they speak up to prevent others? That is a hard question to answer, as we have seen in situations of serial rape, many victims do not speak up – but then this wasn’t rape – and I believe didn’t involve penetration, only inappropriate touching on Harris part – so it is somewhat different.

    I’ve had enough to do with real victims of sexual abuse/crime, to find this current ’round’ a tad suspicious. I have no doubt, given the letter from Harris to the parents, that he has touched someone in an inappropriate manner, but as far as him rotting in prison, and dying a nasty death? Home detention would be adequate, the man has been shamed, lost all the respect etc previously afforded to him, stripped of awards and whatever. He’s hardly going to turn into a serial rapist at his age.

    As for damages for the victims. Well, just what was a ‘grope’ from a dirty old man worth back in the 70’s and 80’s?

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  52. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    can you blame someone for bringing up that case here?

    The point is, attacking Capill is safe. It’s done, dusted and proven that he committed crimes that could hardly be more heinous and hypocritical. We can all feel superior to Mr Capill, especially those who never supported him politically.

    This thread is on a post about why people weren’t believed. About people who’s coming forward was far from safe because the odds were stacked against them being believed. To me, we should be using this even to ask if there are people out there who are abusing because they know they won’t be caught, not posturing about the guy who was.

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  53. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    Jack: Yes, I always thought that sentence for a not very serious assault was pretty harsh…From memory he only got too punches in before Jonathon Eaton wrestled him to the ground…

    Red: Most of the time you are mildly amusing…sometimes you are just a clown…Maggie Barry was a grown woman who could – and did – stand up for herself, not a vulnerable girl…but then of course you know that.

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  54. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, re Baggy Barry .? Who would of believed her and was relatively minor compared to the other depraved and perverted lusts of Rolf harris and Christian Pastor Graeme Capill.
    Scrubone, I’ve offered a theory where celebrity and status can make one feel invulnerable.There is also narcism and egoism tied up as well.

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  55. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (6,074 comments) says:
    July 4th, 2014 at 10:30 am

    Grow up David. I wrote velocity on purpose because I was referring to the sudden speed that other complaints have been made. I am not concerned about the volume, I am concerned about how quickly those ‘complaints’ eventuated.

    You seriously need to get a life if all you can do is troll the blogs looking for what you perceive to be mistakes in the posts of people you don’t like.

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  56. kowtow (8,439 comments) says:

    scrubone

    yes the churches have handled it badly.

    Here’s an insight. After WW2 there was massive unemployment. A lot of prospective candidates presented themselves for the priesthood (rather than unemployment),in the face of such a recruitment boon ,standards were allowed to fall. I suspect many of those were the ones who have caused so much misery and suffering.

    I’m not making any excuses,there can be no excuses for their behaviour or subsequent cover ups.

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  57. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    People like Maggie Barry make me puke. They are all high horsey 30 years after the fact but striking while the iron was hot would have been too much of a threat to a blossoming career I guess.

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  58. Griff (7,683 comments) says:

    Child abuse is rife in some sectors of our community.
    My partner is a Councillor in a low deciles school. Sexual abuse is a distressingly common problem for her to deal with in her professional life.
    Often the kids don’t want abuse officially reported as the resultant cyf and police actions will destroy what family life they have.

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  59. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    Judith#

    “….I have no doubt, given the letter from Harris to the parents, that he has touched someone in an inappropriate manner, but as far as him rotting in prison, and dying a nasty death? Home detention would be adequate, the man has been shamed, lost all the respect etc previously afforded to him, stripped of awards and whatever. He’s hardly going to turn into a serial rapist at his age….”

    I thought the same as I believed Harris had only ‘touched girls around the age of 14-16 …..but Harris did far worse….touched 7 and 8 ylds……..one victim was his friends daughter who he started molesting around 12, he then continued to molest her regulary into her early 20’s – all the while knowning that she was suffering from severe mental problems that she was being treated for…..that her father was telling him about.

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  60. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    Rolfie was stitched up in this trial. Whether he is guilty or not, the evidence to convict just wasn’t there. The competence of the jury that reached a unanimous decision after over a week of deliberation is also questionable. The series of cryptic questions they sent to the judge was a worry. Add to that the climate of hysteria in Britain regarding Savile, and the need for Yewtree to capture a high profile scalp, means the fairness of the trail must be in question. While the subsequent evisceration of Harris in the media, the MSM and social, is quite a disturbing thing to witness.

    http://www.libertarianview.co.uk/current-affairs/rolf-harris-beyond-reasonable-doubt

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  61. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    Ha! Hoist with my own petard! TWO punches in..

    Judith: You are a bit long in the tooth for “Get a life” aren’t you? Normally a juvenile response…I have had quite an event filled life thus far as it happens…

    Harriet: Well said…the long time abuse of his daughter’s friend…began when she was 10-12 IIRC is possibly the worst in the whole sordid business…

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  62. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    Scrubone, I’ve offered a theory where celebrity and status can make one feel invulnerable.

    It certainly helps if the media all know about the allegations, but they’re too explosive (read: serious) to print.

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  63. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    David Garrett (6,076 comments) says:
    July 4th, 2014 at 10:50 am

    Judith: You are a bit long in the tooth for “Get a life” aren’t you? Normally a juvenile response…I have had quite an event filled life thus far as it happens…

    I didn’t realise there was an age limit on what expressions can be used and by whom. Is this is law according to David Garrett?
    An event filled life ? I guess that is one way of describing it, especially if we then label you as the ‘events manager’.

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  64. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    People like Maggie Barry make me puke. They are all high horsey 30 years after the fact but striking while the iron was hot would have been too much of a threat to a blossoming career I guess.

    You’d be better off if you actually heard what she had to say.

    To me, it wasn’t as though much happened, it was more the reaction to her telling him where to go. Because she slapped him down, she was fine and no biggie. But now, after all this has come out, the way the publicist acted confirms the suspicion that he did this sort of thing a lot.

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  65. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    I didn’t realise there was an age limit on what expressions can be used and by whom. Is this is law according to David Garrett?

    I recall a few years ago where I never even considered that a couple of regulars here were anything other than poxy-faced 16 year olds with no real-life experience. Turns out they were both about 50 years old. Just goes to show, age does not bring wisdom… on the left ;P.

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  66. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Harriet,

    Yes, the length of time the abuse continued for is worrying, however I still find the fact that the victim actually went to some lengths to seek out attention from the perpetrator a disturbing factor. If the child was receiving attention for a mental problem, then WHY was this apparent abuse not detected at the time?

    I still note, the abuse did not involve penetration, even though the touching was claimed to have carried on for the extended period of time. It was not at the high end of the scale of sexual abuse. I’m sorry, but there is something that is missing from this story – and the fact the victim continued to seek out Harris’ company, past 20 years of age, when she was mature enough, even with ‘a mental problem'(that I believe was not a severe mental problem) to know to stay away from someone like that, and to seek assistance. She didn’t stay away, she readily sought his attention, and even initiated contact directly with him, and not always through the daughter.

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  67. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Ugly Truths link kept me interested in the way an infomercial keeps you interested to spot the sophistry.
    “I have been writing a book on__ since the 1990’s” Oh yes….!? Got anything…? He makes an accusation about A, can’t substantiate it so moves to something more substantial about Saville to keep the emotional tempo in place etc. I couldn’t finish as I got bored.
    http://21stcenturywire.com/2012/10/15/jimmy-savile-doorman-to-the-cesspit/

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  68. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    Seems Rolf was addicted to this risky sexual practice. He would have got away with it more than enough to to make it worthwhile.

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  69. Nukuleka (325 comments) says:

    Sorry, but I’m in the cynical camp on this one- it’s in the ‘nuns eat babies’ file as far as I’m concerned.

    As others have already pointed out Saville has been convicted of nothing- and I am tired of these 40 year old accusations. Funny that so many of these historic accusations are made once the old $ sign rears its head.

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  70. anticorruptionnz (215 comments) says:

    those who cry wolf do more damage than they realize.

    there are those who are guilty as accused
    there are those who are falsely accused

    that is why evidence and corroboration is so important .

    In areas of sexual nature where there is DNA evidence the matter is more clear cut
    but if it is limited to a touch up then you have to ensure hat the witnesses are independent and not setting some one up .

    I know of a poor man who had a home stay student who made false claims against him , she even accused him of doing things when he and his wife were away .

    On the one hand we are keen to prosecute ordinary plebs but when some one has some status they get all the benefit of doubt even when a multitude and unconnected complaints come forward.

    Nothing beats evidence but it appears we dont need evidence in our courts any more its all about rules and so called reputations.

    welcome back to the middle ages.

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  71. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    To repeat my comment above, people are real happy to pile on the long-disgraced Capill (about the safest moral position it’s possible to take in this country), but there’s a whole lot of silence when I suggest that perhaps there’s some ignored victims out there in Dunedin who’d sure like some justice.

    But hey, lessons from history and all that…

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  72. ross001 (206 comments) says:

    National MP Maggie Barry has revealed that Rolf Harris groped her when she was interviewing him, when she was in her 20s.

    I think you mean allegedly groped. Or is it the case that because Harris has been convicted, new accusations automatically mean guilt?

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  73. ross001 (206 comments) says:

    The late Richard Webster was a great writer who exposed many wrongful convictions and injustices. The false accusations that he explored were nearly always of a sexual nature.

    http://www.richardwebster.net/brynestyn.htm

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  74. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    I know of a poor man who had a home stay student who made false claims against him , she even accused him of doing things when he and his wife were away .

    Sadly, very common. It’s one of the ironies here, that there was a lot of hysteria in the late 90s, where girls who were having problems would go to therapists and have memories “dug out” (read: implanted) resulting in quite a number of false convictions – including the Christchurch Civic Creche case. Meanwhile, guys like Saville were doing their thing and no one thought to actually raise the alarm.

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  75. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    scrubone @ 11.08: Well said! Off topic, but one of the several things I find risible about the Maori reverence for Kaumatua is the phenomenon you point out …a stupid 40 year old will be just as stupid at 65…perhaps hopefully a little wiser.

    kowtow: It is certainly news to me that there was widespread unemployment post WWII…surely you don’t mean here? When the Korean war started in 1950 we experienced a wool boom with our best terms of trade ever…Or are you talking about the UK?

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  76. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly’s comments remind me of the Investigate story a few years back about some events in Dunedin in the 90s

    Did it involve paedophiles, scrubone?

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  77. kowtow (8,439 comments) says:

    DG

    Ireland specifically and I suspect the States too.

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  78. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    U T, the Dutroux Affair:?

    More of your satanic ritual child abuse and other related rubbish ?

    http://www.rense.com/general78/ilumm.htm

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  79. wikiriwhis business (3,996 comments) says:

    I’m actually concerned about what constitutes a grope.

    You touch some one’s thigh and twenty years down the road when your fortunes may have improved or your career upswings some one lays a complaint.

    This is actually what is being encouraged. Surely trauma factor has to be weighed and in most cases I’m sure trauma was no factor. Including Maggie Barry. She’s only being quoted as an MP.

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  80. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    wiki, so she’s making things up.??

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  81. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    kowtow: Ah, that makes much more sense…

    I almost hesitate to write this…It seems to me there is no good reason NOT to accept the verdict in the Rolf Harris case…

    BUT..

    Back in the day – I am talking about the 70’s – when I was a teenager, the environment regarding “consent” was very different…”No” often meant “try a bit harder” or “wait till I’ve had another drink so I can blame it on that” or “wait till my girlfriend leaves so no one will think I’m a slut”…I find it very amusing now, but certainly didn’t then, that I found I had something of a reputation as a “poofter” because for me, No ALWAYS meant NO, and it always has.

    That notwithstanding, a whole generation of us are vulnerable to historic accusations…How do you defend an accusation that “at a party in Pendarves Street in the summer of 1975 you raped me?” if the truth is you had consensual sex with the accuser? I understand the police’s policy nowadays is “let a jury decide”….Just about every middle aged man in this country should fear a tap on the door…

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  82. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    How do you defend an accusation that “at a party in Pendarves Street in the summer of 1975 you raped me?” if the truth is you had consensual sex with accuser?

    You should look up what’s happening in the US, today. Colleges are kicking kids out and ruining their lives because consent was withdrawn days after the fact.

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  83. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    UglyTruth:
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/05/investigates_allegations_against_the_police.html

    A few days later, one of the cops was on Checkpoint. I was listening myself as I drove home. There was no question he was lying, it wasn’t even close to being believable. Ian talked about that interview in the next issue.

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  84. SGA (1,022 comments) says:

    jackinabox at 10:46 am

    People like Maggie Barry make me puke. They are all high horsey 30 years after the fact but striking while the iron was hot would have been too much of a threat to a blossoming career I guess.

    “So Mr Harris, please explain what happened?”
    “I find it all a bit odd actually – I tend to flap my hands around a lot when I’m speaking and I accidentally brushed her body in the close confines of the studio. It wasn’t intentional and I’m astonished that she reacted the way she did”

    My guess is that a few here, without the benefit of hindsight, would be only too ready to accept such an explanation (or something similar) at the time. Perhaps even condemn Barry for a feminist over-reaction, or trying to draw attention to herself.

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  85. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    “Just about every middle aged man in this country should fear a tap on the door…”

    I don’t.

    There’s always a risk of false accusations but I haven’t seen any evidence they are more than a small minority of cases. Bad when it happens but it shouldn’t prevent the seeking of justice in valid cases.

    Labour have just released anti-violence policy: Labour will take decisive action on family violence

    So have National: PRIME MINISTER ADDRESSES FAMILY VIOLENCE

    Both have been at a party leader level showing the seriousness they view the issue.

    We can all help by ditching the bickering and contributing to positive action on reducing violence in our society. Some of the violence is expressed in language, so this should include addressing abuse and expressions of violence on blogs. Whale Oil has managed to make a decent go of it. Kiwiblog will need more of a communal effort.

    How about it?

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  86. Unity (576 comments) says:

    My take on, ‘how on earth did they get away with it’, is that perhaps as the girl might have thought it had only happened to her, she didn’t want to embarrass herself by reporting it and probably thought if it was her word against this celebrity person she wouldn’t be believed anyway. Then when she became an adult, so much time had passed and maybe she still didn’t know about anyone else having been subjected to Harris’s dreadful behaviour, so just let it go feeling she couldn’t deal with the possible publicity of it all. On top of that perhaps she thought that because it was several years ago, it might be a bit late to start complaining now and she would be even less likely to be believed.

    I think it’s not until this person actually knows there were not only others but possibly many others, that she feels she must finally come forward with what she has probably viewed up until that time as her dark secret. Young people must be educated now that it is imperative they speak out at once, because others may also be subjected to the same disgraceful behaviour. By speaking out they will prevent it happening to others and the perpetrator can be brought to justice.

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  87. ross001 (206 comments) says:

    wiki, so she’s making things up.??

    Not necessarily. She could be genuinely wrong. She is describing something that allegedly happened many years ago. Memory isn’t like a videotape.

    http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/full-frontal-psychology/from-lab-to-court-memory-and-the-law.html

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  88. unitedtribes (30 comments) says:

    Could this happen in NZ today? I hope not.”

    Ever heard of Garry Glitter?

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  89. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “There’s always a risk of false accusations but I haven’t seen any evidence they are more than a small minority of cases.”

    It’s happened to me, at least three times, so maybe you should take those blinkers off Pete George.

    http://bcops.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/01-home-invasion-drugs-1984/

    http://bcops.wordpress.com/2008/05/17/03-home-invasion-guns/

    http://bcops.wordpress.com/34-stephen-poynter-lady-joy-rest-home-liar/

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  90. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    jackinabox – it’s serious for those it does happen to but individual cases are not evidence of more than a minority of cases. But at the same time as finding better ways of combating violence in it’s many forms we should also look for better ways of combating false accusations.

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  91. ShawnLH (4,998 comments) says:

    “Worth considering although whether the Christian parents of the kids did not unwittingly set them up for the abuse…..they are generally taught to obey authority from an early age & not to question their elders, especially those in the church.”

    Naaska, using child abuse as an excuse for anti-Christian bigotry? Shameful.

    In fact Nasska is, again, full of shit. No children in the Anglican Church are taught not to question elders in the Church. That is either an example of bigoted ignorance, or a flat out lie.

    Either way Naaska has managed to crawl even further into the gutter in his desperation to promote his atheist hatred. A very nasty way to use abused children for cheap point scoring.

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  92. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “we should also look for better ways of combating false accusations.”

    That’s easy, prosecute or maim cops that protect false accusers from justice.

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  93. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    PG: No real surprise YOU dont fear a tap on the door from some woman who has “recovered” memory of an unwanted advance…

    Did you ever stay out later than mummy said you could when you were 16?

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  94. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ wikiriwhis business (3,723 comments) says:
    July 4th, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    I agree with you.

    Here we a very astute woman, whose never been afraid to speak out about anything. Who is used to working in and with the media, and is, as an MP, exposed to many social issues.

    This astute woman, meets with Rolf Harris, in a studio, whilst he is in NZ campaigning against child sex abuse, and during the meeting, Mr Harris gropes her.

    Does Maggie Barry in her usual extroverted fashion do the socially responsible thing, and tell everyone there is something suspicious about this man that has a lot of exposure to children, and of whom is campaigning against something that he seems to have difficulty controlling, himself?

    No, instead Ms Barry never mentions it, despite Harris being awarded various honours, despite him continued access to children etc, Ms Barry says nothing.

    Then Mr Harris is charged with sexual offences – does Ms Barry speak up and say ‘yes – he’s like this’. Does she do the right thing and offer her services as a witness in his trial?

    NO, Ms Barry waits to see if he is found guilty – THEN she speaks up – when it is safe and popular to be one of “Rolf’s victims’.

    Maggie Barry is no shrinking violet. I suspect that Maggie Barry was actually quite impressed at the time that someone famous found her butt or whatever, attractive enough to cop a feel. I suspect Ms Barry is feigning offence, now that being offended has become an fashionable way to be!

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  95. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    You hit the nail on the head there Judith.

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  96. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    Has anyone asked Maggie Barry why she did nothing at the time?

    As all except the morons know, being a randy goat prone to inappropriate behaviour with women does not at all imply one is also a paedophile…That’s almost as bad, and almost as silly, as saying no homosexual can be trusted with children.

    Perhaps Ms Barry – a very attractive women in 1986 – thought Harris’ behaviour with her, an adult, had nothing to do with what he was doing with the kids…

    ShawnLH: did Nasska specifically refer to the Anglican church (of which I have no knowledge)? Certainly we Catholics were taught that “Father” could do and say no wrong – the very term is telling…

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  97. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    DG – that’s unnecessarily pissy isn’t it?

    My mother (and father) didn’t restrict what I did. I went to boarding school when I was fifteen and didn’t abide by the rules there very well. I left home when I was sixteen.

    What my parents did teach me well was respect for others. And my mother taught me that gender shouldn’t limit anyone’s aspirations. If she wanted to do something she just bloody well found a way of doing it. She taught equal rights by example before the revolution. She was a gutsy woman right up to her death. She rode the length of the South Island when in her seventies. At 77 she had to be choppered out of the mountains in North Otago after a sheep spooked her horse and she fell off. Diss her and I’ll throw it right back at you.

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  98. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    David Garrett (6,080 comments) says:
    July 4th, 2014 at 1:37 pm

    Did you ever stay out later than mummy said you could when you were 16?

    Nope, me and my friends were good girls, we always came home and went to bed when we should do.

    Then, once our parents were asleep, we’d sneak out and be home just before the milkman came at 5 a.m.

    We were into stalking Craig Scott – the singer. We’d follow him around whenever he was playing in town. If he’d groped any of our butts, we’d have fainted from delight.

    Times were very different, as you say. And I believe these things need to be examined in there specific time frame.

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  99. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Judith – I’m sure many girls may have “fainted with delight” if they were groped. But that doesn’t excuse groping when it wasn’t welcome. What’s ok for some can be absolute crap for others.

    You seem to be saying that what was ok for you should be fine for everyone. I don’t think that’s the case.

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  100. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Maggie Barry said she thought Harris was “a creep” Warning, warning, danger, danger!

    The wife and I met Stewart Murray Wilson (the beast of Blenheim) and his last defacto (victim) on the Picton wharf one day round 87/88. After a short conversation about boats and things we parted company but as soon as Wilson was out of earshot my wife said to me, “What a creepy guy.”

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  101. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett

    Then why didn’t Ms Barry do something once she knew charges had been laid against Harris?

    Why wait until he is ‘safely’ found guilty? Why sit and watch him get awards, and not speak out and say he was a groping pervert. She didn’t need to know about the children. She’s highly offended now – therefore one has to presume she was highly offended when it happened. BUT she did NOTHING. Never has done anything, until now. Now she’s offended – before it didn’t seem to matter. But then before it wasn’t election year, and getting ones name in the press and getting sympathy wasn’t quite so important, either!

    I just wonder what the statements on here would be if it was Metiria Turei making the same claims?

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  102. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Pete George (22,413 comments) says:
    July 4th, 2014 at 1:56 pm

    Groping is not okay, today. Nor was it respectable when I was growing up, BUT, we handled it differently.

    And please don’t try to tell me that these ‘victims’ were not impressed that a person as famous as Harris was interested in them. None of these victims complained at the time. The primary victim even went to great lengths to be with Harris, even when the daughter wasn’t around.

    You lose your argument on that point alone Pete. The primary victim was over 20 years of age when she was still seeking Harris’ company. Sure, today she feels shame and mental torment, but at the time, I bet anything you like, that she knew what would happen when she was with him, but was happy to pay that price to be considered special by someone so famous.

    I’m sure the guilt is hard for her to cope with now, and as time has gone by she has realised how inappropriate it was – but PLEASE don’t try to make out that she played no part and it was absolute crap for her at the time. We are not talking about a child here. She continued the relationship with Harris for many many years as an adult.

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  103. kowtow (8,439 comments) says:

    DG

    “Certainly we Catholics were taught that “Father” could do and say no wrong – the very term is telling…”

    True ,but that never extended, nor was it ever intended, to excuse criminality and certainly not to child abuse!

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  104. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    Dont be a dickhead Pete…Why would I “diss” your mother? (do you think are being hip by using gangsta spk?) I never met the woman, and only know you by your priggish comments on here…

    You ever accuse ME of somehow condoning “rape culture” and I’ll do more than bloody “diss” you…

    I might, for example, shout “You wanker!” in an annoyingly loud voice ….to borrow from Rowan Atkinson …

    kowtow: I’m afraid the stats are against you…Mine was a small Marist school in a small town…two paedo brothers, just in my time there…one of them committed his offences – at least the ones he was jailed for – at another school in Masterton…no reason to think either school was an exception

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  105. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    I’ll add to that Pete, we all did things when we were young that now we are highly ashamed of. Things that today are considered very wrong, but back then were just ill advised.

    It’s very easy to sit back now and think about how one was coerced or conned into doing those things, or even to look at who was involved and think of the them as a creep, or in this case a creepy old man now that they are old and grey and ‘ugly’.

    Yes, we can judge from today’s standards and say this is not okay, this man has a problem etc. But you have to consider the times, and you have to consider the fact that conscience later makes us reinvent these acts.

    I’m sure that girl (now a middle aged woman) is highly revolted when she looks at Rolf Harris now and sees this withered old man, and considers how she let him touch her etc, and is really revolted. But at the time of the offending she wasn’t revolted – certainly not enough to avoid him.

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  106. wikiriwhis business (3,996 comments) says:

    Barry waited till after Rolf Harris’ conviction to make her claim

    What a fresh brave angle that was !!!

    Imagine what would have been said of her on here if she was a Labour MP

    The National Socialists would have been rampant

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  107. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    Judith @ 2.07: We are not often on the same page as you know, but I think you probably have a point there…but then neither of us know the extent of the woman’s mental illness…and so far as I know, you are not a psychiatrist…I certainly am not…

    And whatever happened to teen heart-throb Craig Scott? He must be well into his sixties now??

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  108. wikiriwhis business (3,996 comments) says:

    ‘But that doesn’t excuse groping when it wasn’t welcome. What’s ok for some can be absolute crap for others.’

    Women are fickle. If you don’t get your timing right you miss with them.

    Just the other day a woman told me very strongly she needed a rocket. No hints the next day. Her mood had evaporated.

    I know I woulda been spat out of the spiders web within 24 hours !

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  109. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    To an extent I’m sure you’re right Judith, but I think you may be making too many assumptions. There can be many reasons why people are offended against repeatedly.

    We have all done things we are not proud of. I presume and hope the police weigh things up in historic cases. It wasn’t just single incidents or complainants in Harris’ case.

    I know that current problems can amplify past issues, I’ve seen this quite close to me. But I don’t think we can just dismiss all claims of historic wrong-doing.

    Some will be caught unfairly in this, but it’s important we send strong legal and social signals of what is acceptable behaviour. That means holding some perpetrators to account, even if it goes back a while.

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  110. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Maggie Barry to the Herald

    “I think he had a sense of entitlement, he thought he could get away with stuff.”

    “It doesn’t matter that 30 or 40 or 50 years have gone by, it sends a really good signal to creeps like him that they can’t continue to predate on the vulnerable,” she said.

    She isn’t as clever as she thinks she is. A bit of “Law and order” propaganda for the election she thought but all she’s done is show that she, by not speaking up at the time was complicit in Harris offending for a further 30 plus years.

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  111. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    WHAT?? You’ve done things you are not proud of Pete? Go and hand yourself into the Dunedin police immediately…

    Apropos of the Dunedin police and the former Commissioner known by his men as Broad Howard…I note Wishart never got sued for those highly defamatory – if untrue – allegations he made back in 2007…interesting…

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  112. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “I’m sure that girl (now a middle aged woman) is highly revolted when she looks at Rolf Harris now and sees this withered old man, and considers how she let him touch her etc, and is really revolted.”

    I reckon old Rolf has weathered the years better than the much younger Maggie.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11287467

    [DPF: 20 demerits]

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  113. stephieboy (3,013 comments) says:

    To be fair to Maggie Barry the incident that she appears to be describing was of a sexual harassment kind. At the time little that could be done especially the huge reputation Harris carried with him and would not of likely being believed.
    Today such behaviour would be taken more seriously and dealt with.

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  114. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,752 comments) says:

    Could this happen in NZ today?

    You should ask Helen Clark’s “husband”, Peter Davis this. As a Public figure not affair of voicing his opinion in public forums I’m sure he would love to add his viewpoint on this pressing topic.

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  115. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    OECD rank 22 kiwi: or David Benson-Pope.

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  116. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    Good grief, a lot of people are having a go at Maggie Barry

    Here’s what she said on National Radio:
    1. He put his hand where it wasn’t wanted
    2. She told him to stop
    3. He got snippy
    4. The publicist jumped in

    At the time? Not really anything to get too excited about. It’s the recent stuff that puts it in (what would appear to be) full context.

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  117. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    She should have kept her attention seeking gob shut.

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  118. SGA (1,022 comments) says:

    scrubone at 3:22 pm

    Good grief, a lot of people are having a go at Maggie Barry
    Here’s what she said on National Radio:
    1. He put his hand where it wasn’t wanted
    2. She told him to stop
    3. He got snippy
    4. The publicist jumped in
    At the time? Not really anything to get too excited about. It’s the recent stuff that puts it in (what would appear to be) full context.

    I agree. I don’t understand the vehemence of some of the comments. Has Maggie Barry committed some past ghastly sins that I’ve not noticed or forgotten?

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  119. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    jackinabox: get help.

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  120. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    What a precious lot of apologists this blog attracts. At 9.40am I queried the wisdom of children being taught blind respect & obedience of authority. I also mentioned that parents shouldn’t let their crusades distract them from watching out for their children’s’ welfare.This reasoned advice attracted:

    1) ” nice attack there on the parent (corrected). You disgust me.” ex scrubone.

    2) ” before the inevitable anti Christian bigots opened up with blame the christians ” ex kowtow

    3) ” Its OCD…….The poor hillbilly loser is out of his tree for sure.” ex Baity

    Just a whining pack of over sensitive snivellers. It’s left to hope that these deranged Godpuppets are sterile.

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  121. kowtow (8,439 comments) says:

    nasska, likes to dish it,can’t take a wee bit of the old critique.

    “Godpuppets”? And narsekisser want’s to be taken seriously. I’d say nasre is a wee bit of a sensitive petal himself!

    Deranged?

    This from the tin foil hat boy who has joined fUgly truth’s conspiracy brigade……..bwahahahahahahaha.

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  122. Reid (16,442 comments) says:

    He got away with it for the same reason other people got away with it and are still getting away with it.

    Unless you bother to educate yourself, you’re never going to find out who the senior minister in Thatchers Cabinet is, who stands accused of shocking crimes much worse than the fondling of this philanderer. No, der, it’s not McAlpine.

    And you’re never going to find out who the aging rocker is who also stands accused of the very same things and who is reportedly shaking in his little booties lest people find out what he’s done.

    And like UT has tried to tell you, there are many many incidents that are swept under the carpet because the authorities refuse to take it any further. And sometimes they get court orders preventing the media from airing inconvenient truths. AND HOW DO THEY GET THOSE? e.g. the prevention of the airing of the Franklin Coverup on the eve of its broadcast in the US.

    Unless you educate yourself you’re never going to find out how rife it is all through the entertainment industry. I mean why is it, do you think, that people like Li-Lo and Miley turn out the way they do. I’m just waiting for Lorde for do the same. Educate yourself on this and more, but remember, even the most intelligent person won’t understand the simplest thing if they approach it from the perspective that they already know what the answer is. Tolstoy said words to that effect, if it’s good enough for him, then it should be good enough for you, unless of course you’re a moron.

    Just to get you started, take a look at http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/mind-control-theories-and-techniques-used-by-mass-media/

    And BTW, unless you know what you’re looking at, you don’t know it. They do it in plain sight. I know what the Denver Airport is about, but people unversed in symbolism would have absolutely no idea. That’s what I mean. Same here. So educate yourself so you know what youre looking at…

    http://vigilantcitizen.com/pics-of-the-month/symbolic-pics-month-0614/

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  123. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    Reid

    Have a read of Fletch’s link on GD. I have a feeling that what you wrote a while back about a paedophile network operating in the UK may have been spot on.

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  124. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    At 9.40am I queried the wisdom of children being taught blind respect & obedience of authority.

    No.

    You claimed, without the slightest evidence that they had been “taught blind respect & obedience of authority”.

    You then proceeded to attack innocent people for not noticing something you know was well hidden.

    What do you think it’s like, discovering that someone you trusted so completely has betrayed you, everything you know, all your values, and attacked your children, repeatedly over the course of years? Do you think that’s something trivial? Do you think that’s not something that would scar your soul? That’s life changing and humiliating.

    And you attacked that humiliated, scared person. Here, today. Years later. A person who is entirely, completely and utterly innocent of any crime, who’s only crime was to fail to see what no one saw coming. A failure to protect what she holds dearest in the entire world. Someone who will live with the pain of that failure for the rest of their life.

    That’s what makes you a despicable person.

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  125. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    From: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10335791

    ….”But the life he led proved far from the moralistic one he preached, as one by one allegations he had indecently assaulted and raped girls emerged.

    Capill, 46, last month pleaded guilty in Christchurch District Court to rape, unlawful sexual connection, and three counts of indecent assault against two girls under 12.

    He had earlier pleaded guilty to indecently assaulting an eight-year-old girl over a one-year period.”…..

    So there were multiple children involved but no mention of whether they were from the same family. You may have better knowledge of who was sexually assaulted than I but it matters not.

    However many parents were involved & regardless of your raving one thing is for sure. The parent(s) may be grief struck NOW but they were totally negligent THEN. If they’d given the girls a packet of razorblades & told them to go & play on the motorway they would not be more morally guilty of neglect.

    Try looking at it from the POV of a parent or grandparent…..not an apologist for your sect.

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  126. Griff (7,683 comments) says:

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  127. David Garrett (7,271 comments) says:

    Griff: Assuming that’s genuine (and who can assume anything these days?) that’s pretty disturbing…

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  128. Griff (7,683 comments) says:

    The song is on you tube under the band name sans the atheist rants and editing dg

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  129. nasska (11,478 comments) says:

    Polite, well mannered, respectful children……”compliant” is another word that describes it well.

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  130. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    nasska, what I’m hearing is that kids were abused because you didn’t report Capill to the police when you knew he was abusing children.

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