Labour MPs enjoyed Joyce roast of Cunliffe

July 26th, 2014 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

writes:

Joyce took the first call in Wednesday afternoon’s general debate — long a platform for Parliament’s better orators — to parody Labour’s under-the-weather in a fashion that was as clever as it was cruel as it was funny.

Within the space of a five-minute speech, Joyce had revealed another weapon in his armoury — the ability to cut an opponent down by sheer wit — and thereby further enhanced his credentials as the frontrunner for National’s leadership when Key finally moves on.

There was, however, another interesting outcome from his contribution — its impact on those sitting opposite him.

Cunliffe was not in the chamber. But those Labour MPs who were initially tried to ignore what was a virtuoso performance. But their barely suppressed smiles gave the game away.

When the cat is away, the mice will play!

Fortunately for Cunliffe, Labour is also now closer to election day than it was in 1990 when Mike Moore deposed Sir Geoffrey Palmer in a questionable coup which had the sole purpose of saving the party from being completely routed by National.

56 days to go.

Cunliffe’s cause has not been helped by Labour whingeing over TVNZ choosing Mike Hosking — someone Labour sees as biased in National’s favour — to be the moderator for the channel’s debates.

Hosking is a professional. He hardly needs reminding that his performance will be scrutinised intently. Any bias will be blatantly obvious. Which is why there will not be any bias. Labour has every right to object. In doing so, however, the party projects the image of a loser.

If anything I suspect Hosking will go harder on Key, because he has said favourable things about him in the past.

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45 Responses to “Labour MPs enjoyed Joyce roast of Cunliffe”

  1. dime (10,207 comments) says:

    I like Joyce but do see him as a back room guy.

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  2. Keeping Stock (9,370 comments) says:

    Considering that David Cunliffe started this week aggressively stating that Labour would stick to its knitting on focus on the big issues, he has shown an amazing ability to get sidetracked yet again by the small stuff; like whingeing about Mike Hosking, then getting busted for it.

    It would be good if Labour DID stick to its knitting, instead of nit-picking.

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  3. All_on_Red (1,735 comments) says:

    Now now KS, never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake.

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  4. Redbaiter (10,354 comments) says:

    I am just amazed that New Zealand has drifted so far left in the last few years that a wet urban liberal like Mike Hosking is now considered to be some kind of right wing demagogue.

    Good grief.

    This will be John Key’s legacy. NZ society so deeply immersed in left wing culture and so unexposed to alternative ideologies it has no idea what it has become.

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  5. pejhay (31 comments) says:

    A great diatribe (can’t call it a speech) – You can see Annette King barely keeping it together on the other side of the floor.

    Is this seriously what we’re paying these guys to do though ?

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  6. Akaroa (612 comments) says:

    You’ve got a point there, Redbaiter.

    More people than you realise would probably agree.

    (But I aint complaining! We live in a permanently left-wing country – Go John Key!!)

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  7. Neil (577 comments) says:

    Dime I actually would agree with you about Joyce being a back room guy. However I saw his speech in the General Debate on Wednesday.
    That was one of the most brilliant political speeches I have ever seen. He literally stripped Cunliffe of any competence. He wasn’t being nasty, rather very witty and even Labour members were envious of his attack.
    I now think that Joyce could be leader pmKey. Who else do National have ? Bridges-not ready Collins-no too divisive Amy Adams – Hasn’t had enough exposure. Next term will see more National MP’s exposed to that judgement.

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  8. stever (26 comments) says:

    Everyone seems to forget Silent Ts mumbling moan about el capitans cover shot with the ABs . He looked like that kid at school who would always try not to cry while he was moaning to the teacher because something wasn’t fair .

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  9. hubbers (146 comments) says:

    Link?

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  10. gravedodger (1,575 comments) says:

    Cant see Mr c anywhere near “Rugby News” for any reason.

    Johnny Howard got similar treatment from his opponents for his adoption of the Baggy Greens as their Number one fan.

    Redbaiter get a freakin life you moron.

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  11. Redbaiter (10,354 comments) says:

    “More people than you realise would probably agree.”

    Maybe, but I notice even here on Kiwiblog the mood has gradually but steadily drifted left and the blog is now patronised by a hoard of fresh commenters who are left wingers but think because they support JK they are right wing.

    Whereas older commenters who once were firmly opposed to socialism now endorse it because they feel they need to show support for Key.

    The Labour Party is in disarray because Key has stolen its policies, and surrendered totally to the cultural Marxists, and now a blog that was once a ray of hope is as it strives to support Key, basically only slightly less left wing than the Standard.

    This change in commenting mood is a direct result of Key’s failure to present the NZ voters with any real alternative. He has surrendered to the left wing media and the Marxist cultural forces and so the only voters who know there is a better option are those who have more than a basic grasp of political theory.

    The man in the street thinks Key is OK because they like him as much as they once liked Helen Clark.

    Whereas a real politician could have used that political capital to make some changes, Key has refused to do so. A terrible wasted opportunity that NZ will regret for decades to come.

    In basic terms, Key has destroyed the National Party as any kind of real political force in NZ politics.

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  12. CharlieBrown (1,051 comments) says:

    “and thereby further enhanced his credentials as the frontrunner for National’s leadership when Key finally moves on.”

    If that guy ever becomes prime minister NZ will be royally fucked. The man is National’s latest incarnation of Robert Muldoon.

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  13. G152 (415 comments) says:

    Goneliffe (as I call him) tried to set the political debate up in his favour.
    He deserves all he doesn’t get and its 50 plus days until he can get back to his new back garden beehive

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  14. CharlieBrown (1,051 comments) says:

    Redbaiter – “Maybe, but I notice even here on Kiwiblog the mood has gradually but steadily drifted left and the blog is now patronised by a hoard of fresh commenters who are left wingers but think because they support JK they are right wing.”

    Its because National voters are thick sheep that would follow national even if a dog was their leader. It is that kind of mindless support to their political party that let Muldoon wreck the country, just as Key is now.

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  15. Redbaiter (10,354 comments) says:

    Charlie-

    Key has not drawn Labour voters to the National Party, he has taken the National Party to the Labour voters.

    That’s not any kind of victory.

    In fact its a defeat.

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  16. CharlieBrown (1,051 comments) says:

    Unfortunately the damage Key has sewn won’t be realized until the next Labour government gets in power. As people look back at Muldoon with disdain people will do the same to Key in a generation or two.

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  17. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    ‘baiter.

    Key has captured the centerist floating voters and now he needs to re-educate them a lil bit.

    Considering where NZ was 6 years ago and how fast it was sliding down the toilet I think Nats have done a fantastic job. Fair enough not fast enough or agressive enough for most on here but for middle NZ I think its the right way to go.

    You cant get fuck all done from the opposition benches.

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  18. Redbaiter (10,354 comments) says:

    “Considering where NZ was 6 years ago and how fast it was sliding down the toilet”

    Yes, you’re right there, but when we needed a Nigel Farage or a Daniel Hannan or a Thatcher or a Reagan we basically got Bill Clinton (without the sex addiction).

    Even Tony Abbot has demonstrated the will that Key doesn’t have with his willingness to become unpopular by doing the right thing.

    Abbot is gambling on being able to swing the voters to his POV over the remaining term of his govt.

    He deserves credit for his commitment to the cause and his courage in attempting to draw the voters to his strategic view. Key deserves no such credit.

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  19. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    Joyce as PM and Collins as 2IC. ( Assuming both Key and English throw it in after “17.)

    Both need to work on people skills but both have the brains and work ethic.

    Also having a woman near the top job gives the Nats ability to smash the Lefty “ladies’ harder.

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  20. CharlieBrown (1,051 comments) says:

    Red – don’t be generous, Clinton brought his party to the right, where as Key adopted all of Helen’s polcies and implemented a few more she would be proud off.

    Colville – We are where we were 6 years ago. No tax cuts, no employment law reform, no welfare reform, still have the same housing affordability issues we had 6 years ago, and the governments footprint on our economy is as large as it ever was under Helen and under joyce we have even larger government bureaucracy in his massive ungodly ministry. Every one of Nationals policy changes from Helen’s era were nothing more than changes a mid-term labour government would make, its like Helen had a sex change and nose job and took over national.

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  21. ShawnLH (6,551 comments) says:

    “Yes, you’re right there, but when we needed a Nigel Farage or a Daniel Hannan or a Thatcher or a Reagan we basically got Bill Clinton ”

    Nope, we got Reagan, a man who knew how to appeal to and hold the center ground.

    “He deserves credit for his commitment to the cause and his courage in attempting to draw the voters to his strategic view. Key deserves no such credit.”

    Key held his ground on partial asset sales showing courage and commitment to “the cause” in attempting to draw votes to his long term strategic view. He showed a willingness to listen to the public on other issues, but held his ground in the face of public disapproval on an issue that he believed vital.

    Key deserves a great deal of credit. He has done more for the Right over the last six years than some nameless nobody ranting impotently on a blog and achieving nothing whatsoever.

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  22. ShawnLH (6,551 comments) says:

    “We are where we were 6 years ago. No tax cuts, no employment law reform, no welfare reform,”

    Have you been in a coma?

    We have had all three with more to come.

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  23. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Capacity for roasting someone who apologises for being scared of owning his own shadow is a low bar for leadership.

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  24. CharlieBrown (1,051 comments) says:

    Shawn: Hmmm, employment relations Act? Key described his changes as tinkering around the edges, hardly reform. Key described the income tax rate cut as a tax neutral shuffle, as he increased GST to offset it. Hmmm, universal pensions – by far and away the biggest drain from Welfare… hmm, am I missing somthing?

    Well they did implement the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, a bohemoth mess that allows Joyce to favour some businesses over others by giving financial grants, a great socialist idea.

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  25. ShawnLH (6,551 comments) says:

    Reddy’s distinction between those he thinks are Right and those he thinks are Left is total bollocks. As I have repeatedly proven Reddy does not know the meaning of those terms, nor does he have a clue what real conservatism is. (Hint Reddy, it’s NOT libertarianism).

    No, the real distinction here is between the intelligent Right who understand political realities and understand that the Right is a broad church, and the brainless “Right” who would rather be out of power permanently than get their hands dirty mucking in to make real changes, and who think Ayn Rand’s ideology is the only legitimate “Right.”

    In short, it’s a distinction between mainstream conservatives and righties, and the nutjob fringe who follow Marxist notions of ideological purity.

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  26. Manolo (14,161 comments) says:

    The National Party is much closer to Labour than what its cheerleaders are prepared or would like to admit.
    Not in vain the Nats have earned the moniker Labour Lite. A lighter touch of red, that’s all.

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  27. wiseowl (973 comments) says:

    Colville.
    ‘Nats have done a fantastic job’
    Read the post on Breaking Views about the Waitemata DHB and tell me the Nats have done a fantastic job.
    This BS should be stopped in its tracks.

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  28. ShawnLH (6,551 comments) says:

    “Shawn: Hmmm, employment relations Act? Key described his changes as tinkering around the edges, hardly reform.”

    Tinkering is reform, if it achieves sustainable improvements. The 90 trial period is a significant reform opposed by Labour.

    “Key described the income tax rate cut as a tax neutral shuffle, as he increased GST to offset it.”

    Yes, because he had no choice in the face of the GFC and the ChCh earthquake. He made cuts to the top rate and cuts to corporate taxes, but did so in a way that did not gut the budget.

    “Hmmm, universal pensions – by far and away the biggest drain from Welfare… ”

    Campaign on cutting all universal pensions and see how far you get. Armchair wishful thinking is not a sound strategy for winning elections.

    “hmm, am I missing somthing?”” Commonsense and a strong grounding in reality.

    ‘Welfare reform bill passed into law’

    ‘A controversial welfare bill designed to cut the number of young people on benefits and toughen work tests for sole parents has been passed into law amid bitter protest from Opposition members.

    The major reforms meant sole mothers would be required to enter the workforce earlier in their children’s lives, and teen beneficiaries would have their welfare payments controlled by an agency.

    From next month, 16 and 17-year-old beneficiaries and teen parents would not receive their welfare payment personally, but instead have it paid to a Youth Service Provider who would pay their rent and utilities and help them to budget.

    And beginning in October, sole parents would have to be available for part-time work when their youngest child turned five, and full-time work when their child turned 14. At present, sole parents could stay on welfare until their children turned 18.

    Women on the the widow’s benefit and women alone benefit would also face these tougher work tests.’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10820783

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  29. altiora (279 comments) says:

    I think Joyce is Key’s successor, providing that Joyce wants to stick around — something not to be assumed given he’s a talented guy with plenty of other options. He does need to work on this public persona, moving away from the technocrat to become more apparently charismatic. Given work Joyce could become a Key-esque man of the people type, but perhaps with a bit more gravitas than Key. Certainly prefer him any day to (god help us) Collins or Bridge who’re too abrasive; Bennett I think would be a good deputy.

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  30. CharlieBrown (1,051 comments) says:

    Ah, Shawn – a die hard national supporter that would vote for Hone if he was leader of the national party. Oh to live in a world where a change as simple as cutting some taxes whilst increasing a flat tax to offset the increase can be considered reform, even if they keep all the same bands.

    Shawn – go to this website: http://www.wheresmytaxes.co.nz/ It will show how pathetic and small the changes National have made are. Over 10% of my taxes goes to pensions, compare that to less than 2% for DPB. Even silent T has pledged to do more.

    Shawn, you’r nats delusion would be laughable if it wasn’t so destructive.

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  31. CharlieBrown (1,051 comments) says:

    When Labour got to power they did the following in their first term (this is not a comprehensive list):
    Implemented Kiwibank
    Nationalised ACC
    Abolished the employment Contracts Act
    Increased Tax rates and introduced a new tier
    Increased minimum wages
    Created District Health Boards
    Brought in income related rents
    Changed the Property (Relationships) Act:

    Compare the fifth labour and national governments list of policies on wiki, the difference is huge. Especially when you consider what National opposed in opposition yet hasn’t changed in two terms (and have provided no indication they will change any more).

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  32. marcw (259 comments) says:

    Charlie Brown, care to tell us how many pensioners are paid that “10%” and compare it to those the “2%” for the DPB? Good God “man”, what is wrong with you? Of course, I’m assuming you are not a child.

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  33. marcw (259 comments) says:

    If you think Mike H should go harder on John Key because of things he has said about him in the past, then really that is as wrong as expecting him to be soft on David Cunliffe. He should do neither – as a moderator, that is his job. I hope I am right because the electors deserve good debate.

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  34. CharlieBrown (1,051 comments) says:

    marcw – I’m not talking about the merits of the people getting paid welfare, I’m talking about the complete lack of action on the problems that matter. Something needs to happen with the current scheme, John Key not only doesn’t have a proposal to fix things, he has flat out guaranteed he won’t fix it by staking his role as PM on leaving it as is.

    His most clear cut policies have been around what they won’t do. “We don’t cut universal pensions at the current level”, “we won’t sell any more state assets”.

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  35. big bruv (14,211 comments) says:

    Goodness me, I had no idea that so many Kiwis were politically confused. Thank fuck we have comrade Bedwetter to enlighten us.

    I wonder if it might help things if Bedwetter was to provide us with a list of things that makes a person a true conservative.

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  36. Paulus (2,707 comments) says:

    Annette King was almost in hysterics with Stephen Joyce’s speech in Parliament – I watched a replay on Whale. Loved it.

    En passant Key was in the Bay of Plenty yesterday opening something or another and he met a 4 year girl old with her Grandparents.
    He bent to talk to her as he would, and he asked her if she would like his silver fern broach, which she reluctantly took, and pinned on her cardigan.

    That shows the Man.

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  37. scrubone (3,097 comments) says:

    Capacity for roasting someone who apologises for being scared of owning his own shadow is a low bar for leadership.

    I don’t think anyone’s arguing that Labour are (correction) not setting a low bar!

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  38. gravedodger (1,575 comments) says:

    A Conservative wouldn’t have Russell Bedwetter on his estate, too stupid, too ignorant, a total liability, pretty much certifiable really.

    If such a “Nigel Farage” option existed in New Zealand he would be lucky indeed, to win even 1% of the vote. Therefore never to make any threshold and certainly never able to garner a majority in an electorate, right up there with Kyle Chapman in truth

    Just placing Farage in a sentence with Thatcher and Regan would convince most practicing psychologists.

    Welfare has systematically conditioned the NZ voter over a century of patient insinuation and to change it back while remaining electable will take as long again.

    Good ole boy Russell Bedwetter is deranged to think otherwise, how far did Richardson get?

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  39. Johnboy (17,015 comments) says:

    Joyce needs to do something about his weight. If he’s hoping to replace Key he needs to shed about 20kg.

    He won’t go the distance otherwise! :)

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  40. SPC (5,664 comments) says:

    Johnboy, but what if Gerry challenges him to a sumo wrestling contest?

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  41. wrightingright (145 comments) says:

    Cunliffe stuck to LITERALLY knitting, it would be an improvement!

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  42. Johnboy (17,015 comments) says:

    I have just come to mind boggle overload situation trying to picture Gerry in oversized nappies! :)

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  43. Redbaiter (10,354 comments) says:

    “Red – don’t be generous, Clinton brought his party to the right, where as Key adopted all of Helen’s polcies and implemented a few more she would be proud off. ”

    Yes probably pretty right. A more similar comparison would be David Cameron who has destroyed the UK Conservative party every bit as completely as Key and his political acolytes have destroyed the NZ National Party.

    One ray of light. If the inane comments from the entrenched Nat Party supporters above are anything to go by, perhaps its not much of a loss, (one can easily see why they viewed surrender as the best option) and the vacuum left by National’s demise will be filled by another party and another leader with the guts Key so obviously lacks.

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  44. freemark (644 comments) says:

    When I look at the quality of comment & obvious intellectual paucity of the anti Nat commentators here I feel reassured in the logic of my support for a pragmatic, intelligent Govt.
    There is always room for improvement, as with anything..but the current alternatives are beyond a bad joke.
    Read TS for a while, or Gween Blog, and decide which side of the (moving) centre you want to be, and who you want to be most influencing the future of NZers.

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  45. CharlieBrown (1,051 comments) says:

    Red – the nats didn’t die after muldoon so I don’t think they will die after key. But they will probably reform one day and tacitly admit that Key set NZ back 20 years like they did with Muldoon.

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