Labour’s dodgy numbers

July 7th, 2014 at 2:50 pm by David Farrar

Steven Joyce points out:

“David Cunliffe, David Parker and Chris Hipkins had a ‘hey Clint’ moment on TV last night, when all three of them failed to answer a simple question about the total cost of their grab-bag of education announcements,” Mr Joyce says.

has rejected having a Treasury analyst in its office, and it really is showing.”

Talking to media yesterday after announcing it would spend $403 million over four years to employ more teachers, neither David Cunliffe, nor David Parker nor Chris Hipkins could do the simple maths on how much their other promises would cost.

“That’s because their numbers don’t add up and their claims are misleading,” Mr Joyce says.

“For a start, the Government currently funds secondary schools for an average 20 students per classroom, well below Labour’s ‘new’ target of 23 students per classroom.

I understand the funding rations are 1:23.5 in Year 9, 1:23.5 in Year 10, 1:23 in Year 11, 1:18 in Year 12 and 1:17 in Year 13.

“When it comes to their costings, Labour’s figures include only the cost of the extra teachers’ salaries. They need to come clean on what the total costs would be including ACC, training, support  superannuation, and all the other overheads involved in supporting more teachers.”

And as they will make KiwiSaver compuslory and at a higher contribution rate – all ads up.

But the general rule of thumb is that you double the direct salary costs to calculate the overall impact of a new staffer.

“And on Saturday they claimed they would provide every student between years five and 13 with a digital device worth $600 by providing a $100 subsidy and having parents pay $3.50 a week for 18 months. This will be news to Labour, but this adds up to only $373 per device.

They really need that Treasury secondee!

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25 Responses to “Labour’s dodgy numbers”

  1. WineOh (575 comments) says:

    It also means more classrooms – gotta have somewhere to teach the kids. A school with 300 students would fill 13 classrooms at 23 students per room, at 20 per class that increases to 15. I don’t know that schools have a lot of extra capacity to fill that, so where is the capital investment to build bigger schools?

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  2. Redbaiter (7,857 comments) says:

    Why should we expect them to worry about money?

    Most of their lives they have lived by taking wealth from other people rather than producing it themselves.

    Worrying about whether something is affordable or not is for other people.

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  3. dime (9,607 comments) says:

    “I don’t know that schools have a lot of extra capacity to fill that, so where is the capital investment to build bigger schools?”

    after they “buy back the assets” and jack the cost of power, they will have those sweet dividends to spend

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  4. lazza (362 comments) says:

    “But the general rule of thumb is that you double the direct salary costs to calculate the overall impact of a new staffer”.

    Now thats! a handy lil rool of thumb meaningthat overheads (office space, admin, ACC and so on) equate with direct salary costs.

    Probably the same for Local Government.

    We use |the $100K office RoT| … so about the same, (say) for a $100 K salary add $100K RoT “office” … full total $200K.

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  5. Ross12 (1,235 comments) says:

    “And on Saturday they claimed they would provide every student between years five and 13 with a digital device worth $600 by providing a $100 subsidy and having parents pay $3.50 a week for 18 months. This will be news to Labour, but this adds up to only $373 per device.’

    That does not need a Treasury secondee —a simple $20 calculator from Warehouse Stationary will do ( I’m assuming they know how to work a calculator !)

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  6. WineOh (575 comments) says:

    @ Ross, a Treasury staffer on secondment is free… even cheaper than the calculator.

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  7. alloytoo (457 comments) says:

    We could save an awful lot of money by simply sending a math teacher into Labour’s “War Room”

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  8. Pete George (23,167 comments) says:

    “provide every student between years five and 13 with a digital device worth”

    That’s over a nine year period. Presumably that will mean replacing the devices once or twice at least over that period.

    They say lost and broken devices would be covered by insurance.

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  9. ShawnLH (4,332 comments) says:

    ” ( I’m assuming they know how to work a calculator !)”

    That’s very brave of you. :)

    Seriously though, Labour dodgy on spending numbers? No, say it isn’t so! I’m shocked, truly shocked…. :)

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  10. Grizz (531 comments) says:

    That $3.50 also includes insurance and if I am not mistaken, an internet connection. I am no insurance expert, but I thought a device in the hands of children that they do not have to pay for will likely end up lost, broken or stolen before the end of 18 months. These devices become obsolete after 2 or 3 years and need replacing. The costings would be far greater still and the only people winning are likely to be the importers of the computer devices.

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  11. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    If the stupid sheeple fall for these bribes then NZ will get the government it deserves.
    The socialist will promise Heaven on Earth to gain political power.

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  12. Ross12 (1,235 comments) says:

    WineOh @ 2.59pm. I was really saying you don’t need the intelligence of the Treasury guy to work it out.

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  13. marcw (237 comments) says:

    WineO @ 2:59: No, the political party concerned pays the cost of the Treasury secondment – hence the budgetary cull, to pay Matt’s wage.

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  14. davidp (3,551 comments) says:

    >Talking to media yesterday after announcing it would spend $403 million over four years to employ more teachers, neither David Cunliffe, nor David Parker nor Chris Hipkins could do the simple maths on how much their other promises would cost.

    2000 new prefab(?) classrooms at $100k a pop costs $200million. Ignoring all the other costs of training, equipping, and managing teachers, that leaves $200million over 4 years, equals $50million a year. Divided by 2000, that means $25k per teacher. Which is around $500 a week.

    So… It looks like Labour plans to employ 2000 new teachers and pay them less than the minimum wage. Some of their students will be making more per hour flipping burgers after school than Labour’s new teachers. Does any parent want people teaching their children who’d make more working at Burger King?

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  15. burt (7,948 comments) says:

    How dare you people question Dear Leader – it’s re-education camps for you and 200 hours of listening to lprent tell you he’s studied earth science and law at uni and you are dumb.

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  16. WineOh (575 comments) says:

    @ marcw, thanks I stand corrected.

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  17. Kimble (4,397 comments) says:

    They say lost and broken devices would be covered by insurance.

    Huh? Who pays for that insurance?

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  18. RF (1,324 comments) says:

    Kimble. 4.18 PM. Correct.. Who pays for that insurance…. I discussed this with a friend who is an insurance broker. It will be a nightmare insuring the devices as there will be so many exclusions. The standard excess will be more than the replacement value plus some home owners do not have contents insurance.

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  19. J Bloggs (170 comments) says:

    Kimble: I’m sure there will be special “KiwiAssure” policies for just that purpose – all underwritten by the taxpayer….

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  20. Steve (North Shore) (4,517 comments) says:

    $100 + ($3.50 x 78) = @373. If you can’t work that out in your head, then the Labour Party wants you on their finance team

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  21. Chuck Bird (4,738 comments) says:

    How did you work it out in your head Steve? They probably do not show you in school.

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  22. ex-golfer (151 comments) says:

    @ Dime 2.56pm

    They can’t buy back the assets.
    They have used the income from their sale in their “Alternative Budget” to pay for many of their promises and still create/invent/make-up a surplus.
    Didn’t point that out to their faithful supporters of course………..

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  23. FeralScrote (100 comments) says:

    I`m most certainly no financial genius ,but hell, I`d rather vote Sesame Streets “the Count” to the treasury benches ahead of Cunliffe ,Parker and Norman.

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  24. rightoverlabour (71 comments) says:

    These guys can promise what hey like without costing it because they know they won’t get in and won’t have to honour their pre-election promises. So it makes sense not having to pay for a treasury analyst. They can rather use the money on “bring back the moa” projects or fund all their castration operations…..

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  25. rightoverlabour (71 comments) says:

    And the people who will benefit most from this are….

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?77468-Lithium-batteries-used-to-make-methamphetamine

    Now boy, you give me your i pad, i need the battery… nice government to give us these…. off you go now and tell them its lost.

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