National announces coalition choices

July 28th, 2014 at 4:13 pm by David Farrar

John Key has announced the following.

  • They will contest all 64 general electorates
  • In and they are saying that they are happy for supporters to vote tactically for Peter Dunne and David Seymour
  • There is no “deal” with the Conservatives in , or elsewhere.
  • Main focus is on maximising the party vote for

I suspect thousands of National activists around the country have just breathed a sigh of relief there is no deal with the Conservatives.

In my view there should be representation in Parliament for those who have seriously conservative social and economic views. However both NZ First and Conservatives are competing in that space and while they remain separate parties, there is a risk neither will make it. But I can’t see either leader agreeing to be the deputy leader to the other one :-)

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113 Responses to “National announces coalition choices”

  1. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  2. BlueSilver (26 comments) says:

    As a National activist living in the northern part of Auckland I am hugely relieved by this announcement. A deal with CCCP would have been electoral poison for us. Now it’s a clear task of focusing on maximizing the party vote for National without a sideshow in ECB.

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  3. Redbaiter (8,823 comments) says:

    Supports the theory that Helen Key has made National a Progressive party (as he claims), and sees the Conservatives as a worse threat than Labour.

    Sid Holland is spinning in his grave.

    This sends a firm message to Conservatives. There will be no relief from Progressivism and Separatism under a National Govt led by John Key.

    Vote National and you’ll endure another three years of massaged statistics and a further slow slide into the Progressive abyss.

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  4. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    See you around Colin…..another few million down the shitter but that’s life, love & politics.

    There may be a God after all!

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  5. stigie (1,173 comments) says:

    Where do you go for shelter now Reddy…who do you turn to ?

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  6. Tinshed (170 comments) says:

    I regard myself as a conservative but find I have very little, if anything, in common with Colin Craig and his Conservative Party. The right decision.

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  7. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    Peter George must be drinking his second bottle of champagne or single malt by now!
    Time will tell if Key’s gamble pays off or not.

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  8. Redbaiter (8,823 comments) says:

    Flag change and compulsory Maori language in primary and secondary schools coming up.

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  9. Keeping Stock (10,339 comments) says:

    I don’t know what’s better; Colin Craig getting snarky and talking about a deal with Labour, or Redbaiter getting bent out of shape over the no deal.

    Whichever, this is absolute proof that there IS a God :D

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  10. Liam Hehir (125 comments) says:

    [Key] sees the Conservatives as a worse threat than Labour

    Interesting theory – what are the seats where National has done electorate deals with Labour?

    I’m sure Sid Holland would understand – after all, he entered into private-public partnerships with Fletcher Construction, introduced income tax witholding for employees and took minimal steps to dismantle the welfare state the previous Labour government had succesfully embedded into our political landscape.

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  11. EAD (1,082 comments) says:

    “There should be a place for those with “seriously conservative social and economic views”.

    You mean views like:
    – marriage should be between 1 man and 1 woman like it has been since time immemorial
    – all people should be treated equally in the eyes of the law regadless of race
    -parents should be able to discipline their children without fear of incurring a criminal record
    -A government should balance it’s books and not put the country into crippling debt

    You do know that until about 2008, none of these ideas were considered “conservative” at all – they weren’t ideas even up for debate except across the far left of NZ politics. It just shows how extreme the National Party is that these are considered “extremely conservative social and economic views”

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  12. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    I wish Key had shown some balls and backed himself – it appears whilst everyone else has faith in him, he lacks it in himself.

    Strategic or not, it stinks. It stunk when labour did it, and it stinks when National does it. Let the people decide for themselves who they want, without the manipulative games. I doubt Dunne would get a parking spot, let alone a seat, if Key didn’t do a deal.

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  13. kowtow (8,465 comments) says:

    “In my view there should be representation in Parliament for those who have seriously conservative social and economic views.”

    Yes there should be as we don’t it from National.

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  14. Steve Wrathall (284 comments) says:

    Every election there is some christian/conservative party (Christian Coalition/ Future NZ/ Destiny Party / Family Party / Kiwi Party and now CCCP). None have got in, and deep down, they’re really happier on the outer. Ultimately, their kingdom is not of this world.

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  15. tvb (4,421 comments) says:

    I guess this is the right call re CCCP. Craig is too flakey

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  16. ROJ (121 comments) says:

    Some sense here – big C Conservative can use the name, its not logical to assume economic sanity.

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  17. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    This is it Godgobblers…..crunch time.

    Waste your vote on Colin or get in behind National to save the country from Hone, Dotcom & the Greens.

    What’s it going to be? :)

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  18. Fox (206 comments) says:

    Interesting how Dunne basically single-handedly torpedoed the RMA reforms, and yet here is National endorsing him.

    Food for thought.

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  19. queenstfarmer (782 comments) says:

    What idiots ever thought Colin Craig was “conservative” anyway, let alone a trustworthy ally for National?

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  20. flipper (4,060 comments) says:

    Hooyaah…..

    No Ministry of Silly Walks in Parliament. :-)

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  21. Pete George (23,560 comments) says:

    I think most people could see through Craig’s faux Conservatism. I’m not surprised that real conservatives like Tinshed could see through that.

    Some who are desperate for anything to advance their cause have been sucked in, along with a few hopeful Christian conservatives. Craig always looked unsure of what he stood for apart from a few pet issues – he’s issue orientated rather than politically aligned.

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  22. iMP (2,385 comments) says:

    Well, here’s a reality check and a prediction:.

    1. The polls will close and Labour will come back some, as NZers ‘re-balalnce’ a lop-sided race.
    2. National will get 47-48% on polling day, much the same result as 2011, not enough to govern.
    3. They will lose badly in canterbury, which will swell the PVote to Labour and some seats will change hands.
    3. Having been sidelined in favour of polygamy and Cabinet leaking leaders, the Consvs will breach the threshold in their own right.
    4. On 21 Sept. JK will be forced either to court Winston or Colin Craig (there simply aren’t enough vote on the C-Right).
    5. CC will demand more than he would’ve otherwise, having made parl. in his own right, and build for the future whole NZF dissipates with Winnie’s health.
    6. Labour will work strategically to win Ohariu and help split the vote in Epsom.

    National has no friends left; the pickings on the C-R just got much leaner.

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  23. OTGO (549 comments) says:

    So party vote ACT to give National some backbone then????

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  24. Pete George (23,560 comments) says:

    Manolo – I had a very nice bottle of bubbly last night but it had nothing to do with politics.

    Nothing to celebrate today. In any case what Key said was entirely predictable, it’s been well sign-posted for the last couple of months. I’m more pleased for Seymour who’s an up and comer with potential.

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  25. jp_1983 (213 comments) says:

    Judith,
    Dunne has held the seat since 1984..

    Besides is there a rule that says only the electorate seats are for National/ Labour???

    If a good independent candidate stood for an electorate seat, I would vote for them…

    Besides I live in the great seat of Ohariu, with a Working for New Zealand, Party Vote John Key sign adorning by house.

    I know if I want National to be returned to government. Party Vote National, Peter Dunne Electorate MP.

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  26. flipper (4,060 comments) says:

    Judith….

    As a one-time constituent of P Dunne, and with respect for you, I say, nay know, that on this you are away with the fairies.

    Dunne fits his constituency profile to a “T”. And he always does exemplary constituency work.

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  27. Pete George (23,560 comments) says:

    On 21 Sept. JK will be forced either to court Winston or Colin Craig (there simply aren’t enough vote on the C-Right).

    Neither NZF or CP could be considered C-Right. More opportunist wherever it suits two lone crusaders.

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  28. Captain Pugwash (98 comments) says:

    Hay does anyone remember back in the day of the old Soviet Union, their athletes at the Olympic games had CCCP on their gear? What is Colin Craig trying to tell us other that, the earth was created 3400 (approx) BC, Man hasn’t been to the moon & the condensation trails from from high altitude airplane are mind controlling chemicals.

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  29. queenstfarmer (782 comments) says:

    “National will get 47-48% on polling day, much the same result as 2011, not enough to govern” – that depends. 48% could well do it depending on % of wasted votes.

    And that’s the question for the handful of “Conservative” party supporters. Why do you want to waste your vote on Colin Craig?

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  30. EAD (1,082 comments) says:

    The funniest thing with National Party supporters is how they always say “we trust John Key”. It is such a sad thing to see that people have stopped all forms of critical thinking and just subcontract it to JK as he is a “good kiwi bloke” and “he is one of us” ergo, he can do no wrong.

    Many of these voters are the same people who slammed Helen Clark for her radical social engineering when she introduced the mild “civil union bill”. When JK pushes for Gay Marriage however all we hear are……..crickets or “we trust John Key”

    These are the same voters who caused Don Brash’s support to spike with the “iwi not kiwi” billboards because they all recognised the inherit injustice of racial apartheid. When John Key sets up a panel to advances a new constitution to permanently enshrine a 2 tier citizenship all we here from these supporters is ………………silence or “John Key knows what he is doing”

    These same voters slammed Labour for running budget surpluses and deciding to save money in the NZSF as being socialists who love spening others money. When the National Party expands the National debt by nearly $70 BILLION in 6 short years, doesn’t scrap a single Labour pork barrel all we here from these supporters is…………………fingers in the ears or “John is making slow and small changes that add up to a lot”.

    I mean what does John Key have to do to break the trust of these otherwise decent NZ citizens who are the ones who actually fund the extravagance and extremism of the National Party? Like Nigel Farage in the UK, Colin Craig is the leader of the one party who is saying that this is all bulls*it, it’s not sustainable and is no way to run a country.

    Colin Craig is right – the Emperor really has no clothes

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  31. radvad (765 comments) says:

    Hip hip hooray

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  32. Pete George (23,560 comments) says:

    It’s a bit sad that people with oodles of dosh to throw at politics are obsessed with misguided personal crusades rather than making a decent contribution to improving our democracy.

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  33. Chthoniid (2,047 comments) says:

    It’s going to make voting this election in ECB a little easier.

    Sometimes his party really comes across less as a coherent political entity and more as a vanity project. Nailing his colours to the binding referendum issue, kind of signals he’s nursing some resentment over the failure of the 2009 smacking-referendum.

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  34. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ flipper (3,550 comments) says:
    July 28th, 2014 at 4:48 pm

    Personalities I guess, I don’t like him, never have, he’s a touchy feeling sleeze ball in my personal opinion. He may give to his electorate, but I also know there are people in the same electorate that can’t stand him, for the same reasons I can’t. If another strong candidate stood in that area, and there weren’t any deals, I doubt he’d get in this year. I believe his voter base will drop further this year, like it did in the last election. It will depend on who the other parties run of course.

    I think Key should have backed himself. No deals and asked his supporters to bank on him and national. Despite my dislike of Key, I probably would have supported him on that, because my second choice has been for a National lead government – no coalition. I believe Key could have done it – I don’t think he needs either Dunne or Seymour, and I think it would have given a good message to New Zealanders that are a bit skeptical of the deals etc. Many New Zealander want a strong government that is not held to task by minorities – Key could have done that for them.

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  35. RRM (9,919 comments) says:

    However both NZ First and Conservatives are competing in that space and while they remain separate parties, there is a risk neither will make it. But I can’t see either leader agreeing to be the deputy leader to the other one :-)

    And both are the loser for that.

    Winston’s street smarts and instinct for treachery could serve Kolin well – my 2c

    Say what you like about Winston, but he is oily smooth and he knows how to operate.

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  36. deadrightkev (468 comments) says:

    Those that lick John Key’s boots (on this blog and its even more sickening on Slater’s lap blog) have a good look at yourselves. Are you dumb or closet progressives like those in the Labour party you claim you despise?

    John Key has snowed you lot as he has the NZ public. If you support John Key you support blatant separatism and fraudulent treaty claims, UNDRIPS, GST and petrol tax increases, massive government spending worse than Labour, anti smacking legislation, gay marriage without referenda, Auckland super city and Maori statutory board, WFF, continuation of the RMA with little reform, Maori seats, etc.

    This is what Labour would have loved to deliver as a government. You have all been fooled and you want John Key to give you another three years of abuse? Good grief.

    National needs to be chopped off at the knees. It wont happen unless there is a strong party on the right.

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  37. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Pete George (22,802 comments) says:
    July 28th, 2014 at 4:57 pm

    Its even sadder that the system allows them to do it. All they are is a distraction, and a means of diluting the vote and the standard of politics in this country. In the end they make us all losers!

    (I will be sorry that I won’t get to run my ‘making income tax optional referendum’, though) :P

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  38. iMP (2,385 comments) says:

    I just don’t get the nonsense above. Are people happy for National to get 48% of the vote and rely on Act or UF. It’s lunacy.

    A focussing stat. CP needs approx. 112,000 party votes. At the 2011 election over 87,000 people gave at least one of their votes to the Conservative party which was formed less than 2 months earlier. In the Auckland local board elections in 2011 over 50,000 people voted for Conservative candidates.

    I woulda thought that was a whole lot more of a bet for JKey than the 0.00% pickings of ACt or UF.

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  39. MT_Tinman (3,186 comments) says:

    iMP Possumhead and ACT got there first then got a deal – as of course did the racists.

    Maybe your CCCP should earn it’s place rather than wanting something for nothing.

    Pugwash, have you ever visited Planet Earth?

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  40. kowtow (8,465 comments) says:

    “nasska (10,651 comments) says:
    July 28th, 2014 at 4:24 pm
    See you around Colin…..another few million down the shitter but that’s life, love & politics.’

    Oh well at least Colin puts his money where his mouth is ,as opposed to nasska who confuses his mouth with his arse.

    “Godgobblers” indeed.

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  41. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    …..”I woulda thought that was a whole lot more of a bet for JKey than the 0.00% pickings of ACt or UF.”…..

    And where do you think the votes of the retards who would have voted for the CCCP up until this afternoon will go now?

    Hint: The Greens & Hone don’t stand to gain much.

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  42. James Stephenson (2,177 comments) says:

    It wont happen unless there is a strong party on the right.

    Party vote ACT then?

    I’d be more than happy to see a proper socially and economically conservative party in Parliament (wouldn’t vote for them mind you), but the CCCP would be better named the Reactionary Populist Party…CCRPP…can’t help thinking it’s missing a vowel in there :D

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  43. tom hunter (4,838 comments) says:

    I guess Key saw Colin’s billboards then.

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  44. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    I just don’t get the nonsense above. Are people happy for National to get 48% of the vote and rely on Act or UF. It’s lunacy.

    Nope. With both ACT and UF you know what your going to get. Stability.

    With Colin and the Cons, not so sure.

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  45. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I’m not sure the headline ‘National announces coalition choices’ sums it all up. The important choice is yet to come: a deal with Winston or lose office.

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  46. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    I think there is a good chance this time around for a very high wasted vote percentage. Maybe as much as 7%.

    Cons and NZF not getting home on 5% would do that.

    However if Labour continues to slide NZF will pick up some of that vote as a anti Nat vote which will get NZF back at the trough.

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  47. georgebolwing (853 comments) says:

    Colin Craig is a looney and to endorse him in any way would have driven urban liberal votes to ACT in droves to make sure that National had enough dependable partners to govern.

    Maybe, someday, someone sane will attempt to form a conservative party that isn’t just a bunch of ratbag populist christians fixated with the sexual practices of others. Such a party might offer National some support. But the CCCP is just a rich guy trying to pretend to be a politician. He should leave it to the experts. At least the other rich guy trying to buy the election has had the good sense to hire professionals.

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  48. Changeiscoming (189 comments) says:

    As a supporter of the Conservative Party I am very pleased JK has made this decision. I didn’t want the party beholden to National, now it’s all on. I don’t want to hear any complaints on the 21st of Sept when the Nats find themselves a couple of percentage points short.

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  49. Longknives (4,744 comments) says:

    I’m a National/National man but can anybody tell me why Colin Craig is considered such a “looney”? He seems to have some good ideas…

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  50. Liam Hehir (125 comments) says:

    The important choice is yet to come: a deal with Winston or lose office.

    In fact, the Prime Minister clearly said that he would be prepared to negotiate with New Zealand First if that party was returned to Parliament.

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  51. James Stephenson (2,177 comments) says:

    However if Labour continues to slide NZF will pick up some of that vote as a anti Nat vote which will get NZF back at the trough.

    A cynical man might wonder what backroom deals might already be in place to give Winston a grandstand final term, with a handover to Shane Jones for the next election.

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  52. Steve Taylor (211 comments) says:

    So many predictions, so many scenarios, so many assertions: let’s see what the voters decide.

    I like the fact that the Conservative Party of New Zealand will either “get there” on merit, or not at all.

    I suspect the “protest vote” alone emanating from disaffected conservative former National Party supporters will be sufficient in and of itself to get the Conservative Party over the line, however I’m happy to wait 53 more days and see what transpires.

    Yes, the polls subsequent to this decision will indeed be revealing.

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  53. holysheet (387 comments) says:

    in the late 70’s I travelled through USSR (now Russia)
    CCCP was the initials in Russian for USSR
    How conservative are the CCCP here in NZ?

    Key has done the right thing here. Let the winston first and CCCP fight amongst themselves for the same small vote. The one thing CCCP will do is take votes off W1st and deny him 5%

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  54. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    Longknives

    I can’t speak for anyone else but my suspicions about Colin Craig start here.

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lshj2vx0x2h5jnl/CCCP%20Orig%201.png

    Family First & the Kiwi Party folded when NZ Conservatives were floated & most, if not all of the top slots in the new party were allocated to recycled Godnutters trying their luck under a new banner.

    I vote for someone to govern the country…..not ram their Skydaddy crap & moral standards down the throats of the rest of us.

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  55. Scott1 (552 comments) says:

    Longknives,
    as far as I can tell it is just the media love to tag people with a label like “looney” and once you have it everything you do is seen in that light.

    If people acted in a locally rational way, the people on the left of the national party (those that could go to NZfirst or Labour) should be more concerned about ACT than the conservatives.

    Colin Craig’s billboards do make him look slightly unstable though – I don’t know who picked that photo of him….

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  56. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Maybe it was the best photo of him they could take…

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  57. Pete George (23,560 comments) says:

    The biggest culprit in all of this is a threshold that’s set far too high. All parties should be able to get in or not on their merits, but a 5% hurdle does too much too exclude new parties from fair contention.

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  58. altiora (279 comments) says:

    @ Redbaiter: Sid Holland would be spinning in his grave if he knew that National would do a deal with a party (ie CCCP) that has indicated its willingness to do a deal with Labour if the price is right. By the same token and logic as you espouse, National should also be thinking about doing deals with NZ First (whose policies I think in many ways resembles the 1950s National party).

    CCCP should be viewed as a competing opposition party and treated accordingly.

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  59. dad4justice (8,219 comments) says:

    Hey you Liarbourlite National fools who cares what Colin Craig looks like. The Conservative Party has some good policy that this country needs asap.

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  60. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Which policy do you like best D4J – buying back the state assets?

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  61. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    But you just did address me. Moron.

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  62. Pete George (23,560 comments) says:

    “The Conservative Party has some good policy that this country needs asap.”

    What policies? They seem to have bugger all policies, unless I’m missing something. Is there any more than these four paltry policies?

    http://www.conservativeparty.org.nz/index.php?page=Issues

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  63. dad4justice (8,219 comments) says:

    What are you on about mikenmould? You should get a job outside during the day the keyboard has rooted your brain.

    Petey Gal, your link is a error 404 much like your political career eh loser. Watch the bb tic club go thumbing each other. haha.

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  64. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Clever D4J. Deleting a comment. Who knew you could do that?

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  65. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (888 comments) says:

    Do not forget “da bomb” on September 15th from Crim DotCon’s backside…..

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  66. gump (1,647 comments) says:

    This is excellent news.

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  67. Chris2 (766 comments) says:

    I think a Nat + Conservative coalition deal will bring more seats to National than their gifting safe National seats to Dunne and ACT.

    United and ACT support is so low they can never bring in additional MP’s, whereas Craig, has a good chance of bring in more MP’s

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  68. NK (1,243 comments) says:

    I just don’t get the nonsense above. Are people happy for National to get 48% of the vote and rely on Act or UF. It’s lunacy.

    A focussing stat. CP needs approx. 112,000 party votes. At the 2011 election over 87,000 people gave at least one of their votes to the Conservative party which was formed less than 2 months earlier. In the Auckland local board elections in 2011 over 50,000 people voted for Conservative candidates.

    I woulda thought that was a whole lot more of a bet for JKey than the 0.00% pickings of ACt or UF.

    You really are pathetic iMP. What’s the difference with National getting 48% and relying on Act or UF and they getting 48% and relying on the CCCP? There’s a huge difference. National and Key don’t know the Cons for starters, but have worked with both ACT and UF for 6 years. They know what they’re getting with those two; but Colin and his party is/are a complete unknown. It’s far too risky.

    And the Conservative candidates may have got 50,000 votes in the local body elections in Auckland in 2013 (not 2011 as you say) but they’re not even getting that across NZ now.

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  69. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Pete George (22,804 comments) says:
    July 28th, 2014 at 6:00 pm

    http://www.conservativeparty.org.nz/index.php?page=Issues

    Very good link Pete – not so good for the conservatives though!

    Here is a party where people are questioning the sanity of the leader – so how does their page read.
    They start by saying ‘call us crazy’, they then mention loony, crazy again, and then top that off with ‘hairbrained’. The rest of the page mentions ‘madness, nuts, wild and yes, crazy again. They top it off by mentioning Einsteins definition of insanity, and finish with the grand finale of loony (again).

    When the dialogue surrounding your party is dominated by questions of sanity, it REALLY REALLY isn’t a good idea to try and sell yourself, using exactly that language.

    Their page demonstrates the inexperience and immaturity that is worrying many in the electorate – what were you thinking Colin?

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  70. David Garrett (7,272 comments) says:

    Longknives: Colin Craig is no looney…I helped them draft their law and order policy last time, and so had quite a bit to do with him…not so much lately.

    This “looney” label is largely a media construct: anyone who is even vaguely Christian (Craig says he is not a member of any church and I believe him) and has some old fashioned ideas about law and order and crime and punishment is virtually automatically so labelled. ACT suffered the same labelling about three strikes….a policy so successful that National now claims it was theirs!

    This CCCP crap (standing for Colin Craig’s Conservative Party, but conveniently the old Cyrillic acronym for the Communist Party of the Soviet Union — ho ho ho, very droll) also aids that whole…meme…is that the right usage of that new word? In fact the party has never featured Craig’s name – the only party I can think of which did that was Jim Anderton’s Progressive – it is simply the Conservative Party of New Zealand.

    Of course Colin hasn’t helped himself by frankly silly statements about the moon landings and chemtrails…as I have said before he doesn’t seem to have very good advisors around him, and he is going to need to get some quick smart if he is to make the impact he hopes to make.

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  71. duggledog (1,556 comments) says:

    I get why National did not instantly undo all of Helen Clark’s socialist policies. I really do. There was a quake and a GFC. But it’s been six years now and we have a hell of a big debt to pay back; we’re only getting rid of that debt by saturating the countryside with more immigrants, cowshit etc.

    But as I say it’s been six years; the drop in recorded crime is only trifling; ACC is still balls, welfarism is still rife, (some) Maoris continue to take the utter piss, the Govt pays you to save, the cops now go and apologize to Tame Iti the shit stirrer for gods sake and to cap it all off, they’ve paid him. Jesus H Christ.

    Basically I’m getting bored. It really is the same old shit. NZ is still a country being dragged backwards by the dead weight of backward thinking Green knobs and Maoris and dole bludgers. If Craig gets in to Parliament it might put some steel in the National spine. I don’t think I’m going to party vote CCCP but good on him if he gets in.

    If National governs alone (I’m still calling it) then maybe they will do what needs to be done but I’m not banking on it.

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  72. tom hunter (4,838 comments) says:

    He also has not helped himself with those bloody billboards. When I first saw one the other day I burst into laughter. When you should actually be trying to fight the “looney” label the last photo of yourself you should pick is something that looks like it’s from The Shining.

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  73. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Pete George

    Very good link Pete – not so good for the conservatives though!

    Here is a party where people are questioning the sanity of the leader – so how does their page read.
    They start by saying ‘call us crazy’, they then mention loony, crazy again, and then top that off with ‘hairbrained’. The rest of the page mentions ‘madness, nuts, wild and yes, crazy yet again. They top it off by mentioning Einsteins definition of insanity, and finish with the grand finale of loony (again).

    When the dialogue surrounding your party is dominated by questions of sanity, it REALLY REALLY isn’t a good idea to try and sell yourself, using exactly that language.

    Their page demonstrates the inexperience and immaturity that is worrying many in the electorate – a serious rewording is needed.

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  74. David Garrett (7,272 comments) says:

    duggle: If National gets to govern alone you can be damn sure NOTHING much will change……I have it on very good authority that Key has privately admitted he is not much interested in any change of direction – he just thinks they can run the ship better than the other lot, and that is as far as his aim goes….which is actually frighteningly close to Muldoon’s stated aim to leave the country “no worse than he found it”…although I am not of course comparing Key to Muldoon.

    ACT’s slogan “put some spine into National” (or something close to that) in 2008 is exactly what is needed – whether ACT provides said spine or the Conservatives…this time of course ACT is focusing on surviving rather than performing any surgery on the Nats..

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  75. David Garrett (7,272 comments) says:

    No surprise that I disagree with Dr Judy…If Craig was able to implement “those four paltry policies” he would have achieved more change than any minor party in the history of MMP…needless to say I doubt he would get the Nats to agree to one, let alone all four.

    Hard labour for criminals like Judy’s mate? The first $20,000 of income tax free and then a flat tax? Paltry?? I don’t think so…

    And I think the throwing back of the words “looney” and “crazy” etc. is a smart idea…sounds very Christine Rankin to me…The reality is NONE of those four core policies are in any way looney or crazy…

    Stick to whatever it is you do Judy…political marketing is probably not for you…

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  76. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    David Garrett

    ….”Craig says he is not a member of any church and I believe him”….

    I seem to remember that he was a Baptist but as you pointed out he is not committed to any particular church at present.

    What, however, of those behind the scenes workers & prospective candidates…..have you any insights?

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  77. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (10,654 comments) says:
    July 28th, 2014 at 7:11 pm

    One does not have to be a member of a church to be staunchly religious.

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  78. Unity (584 comments) says:

    Thank goodness National is not doing a deal with the CP. The Conservatives don’t need them as they will get there easily on their own. It will give them so much more satisfaction than beholding to National. Many people in this country are now waking up to the dreadful undercurrent that is growing and want an end to everything racial and separatist. We should all be one people in this day and age because after all we have lived, worked, played and intermarried for many many years.

    As for calling Colin Craig names like flakey, nutter and other names, anyone who has attended one of his meetings knows how very different he is. He has a good brain, common sense, and wants to take our country back to our core values which have long gone after successive Governments have tampered with them – all in the name of votes and staying in power. They haven’t had so much as a backward glance while they’ve given away our country and are still giving it away.

    The other day Key said the first thing he would do if he wins the election will be to change our flag. This guy just can’t leave things alone. He has to meddle in everything. He’s done enormous damage to families in all ways from the anti-smacking legislation to gay marriage. If anyone’s a flake it is John Key – Shonkey actually!! And to think I voted for him in 2008. I quickly realised my gross mistake. What a huge political disappointment but I’m sure he’s a nice man with a nice smile – just not a Leader. He’s a deal maker and a trader.

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  79. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    National has made no major changes because it has no mandate to do, if it ran on a reformist agenda it’d lose.

    WFF, Student loans, pensions have became the middle rail of nz politics; touch them and you die.

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  80. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    Accepted Judith but birds of a feather etc is a pretty good guide.

    I also accept what DG has stated above but I still suspect that there’s some real off the wall fundies in the woodwork.

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  81. David Garrett (7,272 comments) says:

    Nasska: I don’t know people on their list personally, but I think it would be a fair assumption that there are a number – perhaps a goodly number – of religious people among them. I do know that one or two of his inner circle are certainly active members of Christian churches…but so what??

    Craig is certainly not leading a resurrected Graham Capill party or…who was the other one? The one who looked like a serious God botherer?? He has quite sensibly never denied that many of his party members are active Christians…and again, so what?

    As for “off the wall fundies’…since Destiny crashed and burned so spectacularly, I guess they have to support someone! You are talking what – 1% of the electorate?? Nothing like enough to dominate or control his party.

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  82. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (6,399 comments) says:
    July 28th, 2014 at 7:11 pm

    It doesn’t matter whether those policies are sound and extremely sensible – when you are trying to market your party, and there are strong critics saying you are ‘loony’ and so on (even some on this thread have mentioned that) you should try to distract from that sort of dialogue that draws attention to what they are claiming. It’s only commonsense, however instead, Craig appears to have gone in the opposite direction, and the page is dominated by such words. They are not mentioned just once or twice, the entire page has such examples – it was the first thing I noticed about the writing. That’s not good, considering the criticism, and one doesn’t have to be a marketing expert to know it is not a good focus.

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  83. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    ….”so what?”….

    So they’ve joined up with the conservatives to push their burning desires to return the moral standards of NZ to the 50s. I can actually remember those times & I’ve no wish to experience them twice in one lifetime let alone have them forced onto my children & grandchildren.

    Fiscally NZ Conservative policy is all over the place in the fashion of a mad woman’s shit. It is my contention that they are a fundie religious party trying to slip into parliament using the bits of their policies that won’t scare the punters. You’re right in that the Xtians are at worst maybe 2% of the population….that is why they have to reach beyond their natural constituency.

    The tactics they’re using worked quite well during the Siege of Troy.

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  84. altiora (279 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett: you know full well that what the fundys lack in numbers, they make up in money, organisation and energy. In these days of poor voter participation in political parties it doesn’t take much for a small group to take over a small political party.

    The minute a fundy gets anywhere near a microphone, they can’t help but say something really ridiculous, the media will feast on it like vultures, and down goes CCCP and National (if stupid enough to align itself with CCCP).

    Other than that I have only two other words for you: Gordon Copeland.

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  85. chris (647 comments) says:

    tom hunter said

    He also has not helped himself with those bloody billboards. When I first saw one the other day I burst into laughter. When you should actually be trying to fight the “looney” label the last photo of yourself you should pick is something that looks like it’s from The Shining.

    I thought it looked very Big Brother from 1984, but The Shining fits too. What on earth were they thinking with that billboard? It’ll lose them some votes for sure.

    Oh and while I’m on billboards, there’s been plenty of talk about the lack of visibility of the logo on the Labour ones. But the things are bright red for goodness sake! Who else would they be for?

    And finally, I’m pretty sure I saw one for Internet Mana on Sunday which didn’t have an authorisation statement on it. I was about 100 metres away so could be wrong (but I have excellent eyesight and could see the others had one); I must go back for a closer look and take a photo.

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  86. wiseowl (893 comments) says:

    Unity @ 7.17.
    Agree exactly.
    I can’t believe National can say they could work with the racist party .Well I can but it is purely for power. But any sane person that reads what Flavell and Sharples have said lately, would tell National in no uncertain terms not to have anything to do with them.
    The damage that has been done is immense and to suggest they would do more deals with this party is alarming and verging on traitorous.

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  87. duggledog (1,556 comments) says:

    I do wonder DG.

    If you wanted to hold and control the massive, slightly distracted and uncaring centre in NZ for longevity; but you knew in your heart that the country was gradually wandering down the wrong path, surely the plan would be to bland yourself into an amorphous blob and then create or foster a smaller party to come and be the bad cop; the guy who you could blame for all the ‘bad medicine policy’.

    I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory but…? National need an ACT or a Conservative Party. They don’t want Winston, ACT is barely registering… I’d bet dollars to doughnuts Key & Craig have talked.

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  88. tom hunter (4,838 comments) says:

    Interesting duggledog. Here’s my take from 2012:

    Permit me to introduce an idea that may be too cynical and/or conspiratorial.

    In 2014 the Key-led National party will likely win the most votes and seats of any party. It’s hard to see Labour getting its act together before then, even on personnel, let alone policy. Still, it’s likely that National will lose ground, as is almost always the case with two-term governments.

    Johnboy is therefore going to need a coalition partner. The Maori party may still be there; there is the ever-present possibility of the ‘Tory Sellouts’ meme finally catching hold, not to mention Pita and Tariana retiring, with a consequent loss of mana leading to the party dissolving back into Labour, or possibly Mana? However, let’s assume that the Maori Party are still there and likely to go with National once more.

    One more party and their seats are thus needed. Act are dead! Winston may still be viewed as toxic by Key – and should be from the point of view of having a government that works and possibly wins again in 2017.

    What better way to resolve this problem than “allowing” socially conservative National voters to get pissed off and leave for the Conservative Party. The jingoism of nationalist economic policy might also pull votes away from Winnie. One can still play the liberal card to soft-left voters and when it’s time for coalition discussions where will the Conservatives turn other than National? They either join or allow some soft-left government to take power, a government which will continue pushing down all the liberal-social lines they hate, plus plenty of Green nuttiness on the economic front. It would likely take only one election like that to screw the Conservative party as voters rush back to National in our endless game of political yin and yang.

    And what better way to enrage such voters and push them into the arms of the Conservatives than to endlessly push fringe issues such as gay marriage, while using the exact same issue to weaken Labour. Oh sure, in 2014, they’ll be the usual anger on all sides as National and the Conservatives compromise to form a government – but Key can wring his hands in public and claim that the Conservatives prevent him doing any more actions like this, while Colin can appease his voters by claiming that they’ve stopped the rot, while being unable to rewind the past.

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  89. Johnboy (16,529 comments) says:

    I’m looking forward with interest how JK and WP negotiate the terms of our next government! :)

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  90. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    Do people still vote,whats the point…tweedle dumb our dumber or worse dunne

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  91. chris (647 comments) says:

    The problem with “allowing” people to vote e.g. Winnie, CP or ACT is that if they don’t get an electorate seat or pass the threshold then those are wasted votes that may as well as been for National in the first place, although there are two points:

    1) It could be an attempt to create long term support for those parties so that when National’s votes does inevitably collapse, the voters have somewhere else to go other than Labour etc, like what happened in 2002 ACT got a bunch of votes.

    2) There is no guarantee that Winnie or CP will go with National. CP in particular is an unknown entity and still just a one man party. Winnie’s party isn’t much better than a one man party but at least they know what he’s like in government.

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  92. Steve Taylor (211 comments) says:

    @ tom hunter: Wow, that is some analysis. Who in National would be smart enough to have come up with such a strategy?

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  93. georgebolwing (853 comments) says:

    What I really love is the boosters of the Conservative Party/conservative movement claiming that there is a “growing groundswell” against all things liberal and that lots of people are “now waking up to the dreadful undercurrent that is growing” (Unity at 7.17 above, for example), yet all the opinion polls show that:

    a) a stunning majority of people think the country is moving in the right direction;

    b) a overwhelming majority of voters in NZ are saying they will either support National, Labour or the Greens, who at least according to some commentators of this site, all all promoters of the same “progressive” policy;

    c) John Key is by far the most popular PM we have had in this country for decades.

    I am confident that the Conservative Party will struggle to get above 3% in the polls. NZ First have tanked and Winnie has resorted to conspiracies about the ferries. If he was ever today’s man, that was in 1990.

    The real action in this election is going to be the battle for second between the Greens and Labour. Rusel Norman is gagging to be taken seriously and being the official “Leader of the Opposition” would give him so much respectability, as well as guaranteed airtime it would be all his Christmases at once.

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  94. chris (647 comments) says:

    The real action in this election is going to be the battle for second between the Greens and Labour. Rusel Norman is gagging to be taken seriously and being the official “Leader of the Opposition” “Co-Leader of the Opposition” would give him so much respectability, as well as guaranteed airtime it would be all his Christmases at once.

    Fixed it for you.

    But seriously, I’m sure he’d love to be leader all by himself if it wasn’t for their silly touchy feely policy about needing boy and girl “co-leaders”. In all reality he is the Leader.

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  95. Mobile Michael (451 comments) says:

    The outcome of the election will be determined by two things: Whether Hone can win Te Tai Tokerau (I think he will) and bring in 2-3 other MPs, and Winston getting over 5% (I also think he will). If either of those two miss out, we will have a National Government. Otherwise, we may have a National Party led minority Government supported by Maori, UF and ACT.

    I don’t think we will have a Labour/Green/NZ 1st Government, backed by Mana, Internet, and Maori Parties, but a minority National Government may have to make concessions to the Maori Party to pass legislation, and will lose every members bill vote.

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  96. altiora (279 comments) says:

    Could someone please confirm whether these are genuine CCCP billboards:

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/11/29/conservative-party-2014-billboard-on-chemtrails/

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/02/20/conservative-party-billboard-2014-2/

    Ta.

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  97. Nostalgia-NZ (5,202 comments) says:

    The reason why JK is calling out Winston (a past master of holding his cards to his chest) to reveal who he would join as a coalition to form a Government if he can this September – is because Peters is most likely to be the ‘tipping point’ post September’s election as to what Government is formed. JK would dearly love to scare the horses and drive voters to the poll to ensure a Nat’s win. JK appears to think, (probably rightly) that NZF will pull more votes than Colin Craig. As to the decision on ECB – tidy and pragmatic.

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  98. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    I’ve been out in the desert all day… clearly the heat’s affecting my perception…

    Three more years of Mr “Dish the dirt for a flash of skirt” Dunne? The man who brought us “Smoke ‘em if you got ‘em… but now you don’t got ‘em”? , The politician who, more than any other, makes the trade on K-Road look like the epitome of integrity?

    I mean it’d be one thing if he were effective at anything…

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  99. altiora (279 comments) says:

    I suspect Nostalgia-NZ that Key is also thinking about which party will be more likely to be relatively stable and reliable coalition partner. While the choice between Peters and Craig isn’t exactly palatable, Peters is preferable because (as you mention) he is guaranteed to pull in votes, especially now from the old traditional Labour voters, and Key know the devil they’re dealing with so will have thought out some strategies for managing him. Craig on the other hand, there is no guarantee he will make it into Parliament, his behaviour concerning ECB has been immature and prima donna-ish.

    I might add for this National voter, NZ First is preferable because it is avowedly secular.

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  100. Nostalgia-NZ (5,202 comments) says:

    I think so altiora. JK knows, as far as anyone can – Peter’s spots, and his enduring popularity with part of the electorate. On the other hand Craig is undefined – fairly easy to work out who potentially, and historically, wins more votes. Gives pause for thought about where Dover Samuels claims his party vote will go.

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  101. Scott Chris (6,135 comments) says:

    Good move Key. Let Peters and Craig cancel each other out.

    My guess is they’ll get around 7% of the party vote between them – hopefully split evenly which would mean that National would only need half of the remaining 93% plus ACT and Dunny to govern.

    With any luck Craig will announce some anti-immigrant policy and maybe throw Grey Power a bone or two to further erode Peters’ support base.

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  102. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Tinshed @ 4:26 pm says: “I regard myself as a conservative but find I have very little, if anything, in common with Colin Craig and his Conservative Party. The right decision.”

    When the CP first got off the ground I thought “yes! finally a conservative party to vote for!” But as time went on I saw very little policy focus on areas of concern to social conservatives, and a lot of pilfering from NZF. Well, I could if inclined vote for NZF so why do I need NZF v2?

    Then there was Craig himself. Early on I was happy to defend Craig and overlook his oddities, but as the whole issue of a seat came to the fore he started looking far more dicey. His “bottom line” demand when his party was only just scoring 2% in the polls was arrogant and naive.

    So sadly I think JK has made the right decision. Craig would not beat McCully in a straight contest, no matter how many nods and winks ECB voters were given, and forcing them to vote for him by pulling McCully would have drawn a big fat target on National in a way that the other deals do not.

    And despite Red’s fantasies Craig and the CP was never going to be the Saviour of the Right.

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  103. lolitasbrother (692 comments) says:

    I think Colin picked the wrong seat to contest.
    Murray is not some one you shag around with, he has just done so much good for NZ

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  104. Scott1 (552 comments) says:

    I suspect that Colin Craig has a lot more ethics than Winston Peters, you may or may not agree with the particular ethics that he has – but there are more of them and therefore he is less malleable and more dangerous. That makes Winston the way to go in general for a coalition partner from a self interested point of view.

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  105. Pete George (23,560 comments) says:

    It’s difficult to know what Craig’s political ethics woulds be if he got into Parliament. He has been contradictory – he was obviously hoping to get a hand from National but said didn’t like electorate deals.

    He said he would back the highest polling party but yesterday said he would consider going with Labour if they backed his binding referenda bottom line.

    And Craig has openly attacked National.

    His ethic seems to be “any way to get his way’.

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  106. marleybob (9 comments) says:

    Personally, I like a lot of what the conservative party stands for. Binding referenda, one law etc etc. The biggest problem is for the CP is Mr Craig himself. He hasn’t come across at all well to the public. I think under a different leader they could do better.

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  107. ChardonnayGuy (1,206 comments) says:

    What I’d really like to know is whether ACT will be independently costing any other Conservative election policies to see if they’re fiscally responsible, as they did with CC’s tax policy. I’m asking on behalf of a couple of expat Kiwi centre-right voters who would definitely vote for ACT if they did so.

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  108. starboard (2,536 comments) says:

    We need the Conservatives with National to bring them back to the right. National lite is not what I voted for. I didn’t vote Key so he could cuddle up with the filthy racist maori party. Key has laid down with dogs..now he is covered in fleas.

    Colin Craig will get my vote , both party and electorate. All power to you Colin. Keep up the good work.

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  109. Pete George (23,560 comments) says:

    “We need the Conservatives with National to bring them back to the right.”

    How do you think Craig would bring National back to the right? Craig nor his binding referenda are hardly likely to favour a starboard sort of right.

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  110. starboard (2,536 comments) says:

    “His ethic seems to be “any way to get his way’.”

    Thats rich coming from the champion supporter of bauble seeking political whore Dunne…” my pants are down guys , who needs me” ?

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  111. starboard (2,536 comments) says:

    You don’t like Colin Craig grottchris because of his dislike of homosexuals and their disgusting ways…now wouldn’t that be right?

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  112. Paulus (2,627 comments) says:

    At least we all know that Winston will never support any party associated with Greenpeace Taliban.

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  113. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Winston may well have no intention of supporting the Greens, but he knows full well that he needs to maintain that option as a credible threat to secure the best possible baubles from National.

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