Garner on dirty tricks

August 16th, 2014 at 3:00 pm by David Farrar

writes at Stuff:

Helen Clark was probably the biggest gossip of them all when she led the country. She leaked and spread rumours about people and even those in her own team – I wonder how her private communications and those of her senior ministers would look splashed across a book. I bet it wouldn’t be pretty.

But they never get hacked or spied on.

I was also involved in a series of stories about former Cabinet minister John Tamihere over financial irregularities at his previous job at the Waipareira Trust which saw him sacked as a minister. When I got home, my house had been broken into. Nothing was taken but all the windows and doors had been left open. TV3 hired a security firm to change the locks, watch my kids at school and investigate the break-in. The firm concluded that someone wanted to frighten me – and we left it there. 

There have been some very interesting break ins of offices recently. Why would people break into an MPs office? No drugs., no money, no alcohol.

I also remember doing business with Labour’s chief of staff Matt McCarten in the 1990s, when he ran the Alliance. Matt was fun and charming – but let’s not kid ourselves, if anyone knew how to run a black ops sting it was him.

When I worked in Parliament, Matt sometimes would give me stuff to attack Labour with, on behalf of the Alliance. Now he is their Chief of Staff.

Senior Labour  ministers and press secretaries rang to point me toward The Standard, a Left-wing blog, to read its vitriol on certain days. Who had written those posts? I’m told many were written under fake names by Labour staffers paid by the taxpayer.

My point is politics is dirty, no matter who is in power. Hager seems genuinely surprised at this. Frankly I’m surprised at his naivety.   

Let’s not forget that Hager is a long-time critic of spy agencies and electronic surveillance – but he’s happy to accept and publish information taken from people’s computers without their consent. Dirty tricks indeed.

Spying is wrong – except when they do it.

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162 Responses to “Garner on dirty tricks”

  1. davidp (3,580 comments) says:

    >Let’s not forget that Hager is a long-time critic of spy agencies and electronic surveillance – but he’s happy to accept and publish information taken from people’s computers without their consent. Dirty tricks indeed.

    There are two people who reserve the right to read all your e-mails: the GCSB and Hager. The GCSB needs a warrant, and doesn’t blurt your e-mails out to the world after they’ve read them. Also, GCSB don’t wrap themselves up in a cloak of Lefty sanctimony.

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  2. mjw (392 comments) says:

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  3. thePeoplesFlag (242 comments) says:

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  4. chris (644 comments) says:

    From http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11309931

    Speaking to media this afternoon Labour leader David Cunliffe said: “The Labour Party is today releasing correspondence from the National Party, dated 2011, which confirms that at least one of its staff were involved in infiltrating the Labour Party’s website.”

    And The Labour Party got the correspondence from the National Party how? So on the one hand they attack National for “infiltrating the Labour Party’s website” but on the other hand they have “correspondence from the National Party”. Hypocrisy much?

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  5. chris (644 comments) says:

    Also, is this the same “hacking” into the Labour Party website which in fact was an openly readable page, indexed by Google no less, containing the list of donors etc?

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  6. labrator (1,847 comments) says:

    Funniest thing is how much effort goes in to smearing one of the cleaner politicians in recent NZ history. There’s a reason one of his nicknames is Teflon John, nothing sticks. After six years maybe there’s a reason for that?

    The hilarity of trying to paint Cam Slater as some sort of quasi-official National party component is side-splitting.

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  7. davidp (3,580 comments) says:

    mjw>Looks like National may have admited involvement in accessing the Labour party website, contrary to the Prime Minister’s statements.

    There is nothing wrong or illegal about accessing a web site. Accessing information is sort of the point of a web site. Key has actually denied that anyone hacked the site, and he is right because it was never hacked. Labour foolishly placed membership (and credit card?) details in a public area of their web site. Once someone realised what Labour had done, a bunch of people took a look at the information Labour had made public. Sort of like “Hey, Labour have printed their membership list and put in on a giant billboard on Lambton Quay”… “Really? I don’t believe they could be so inept, I’ve gotta see this for myself”.

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  8. itstricky (1,801 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  9. labrator (1,847 comments) says:

    Free tip for Cunliffe

    infiltrate – verb (used with object), infiltrated, infiltrating.
    1.
    to filter into or through; permeate.
    2.
    to cause to pass in by filtering.
    3.
    to move into (an organization, country, territory, or the like) surreptitiously and gradually, especially with hostile intent:
    The troops infiltrated the enemy lines.
    4.
    to pass a small number of (soldiers, spies, or the like) into a territory or organization clandestinely and with hostile or subversive intent:
    The intelligence agency infiltrated three spies into the neighboring country.

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  10. Fentex (938 comments) says:

    Spying is wrong – except when they do it.

    Entirely beside the point if a serious allegation is made, I care not one whit about the person, their motivations, or their personal inferences or opinions about an allegation if the allegation is of something that would concern me if true.

    I don’t care if Nicky Hagar sees conspiracies that exist or not or whether he holds all people to the same standards – I care if allegations he makes are true or not.

    Are ministers of this country abusing their position to manipulate the OIA process, SIS security classifications and access to records state services hold on citizens? Have state paid public servants abused their privileges to favour a political party? This sort of thing concerns me.

    The messenger who brings the news of no concern to me, only the veracity of the claims.

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  11. Rex Widerstrom (5,349 comments) says:

    Helen Clark was probably the biggest gossip of them

    She was also the first to call West Coasters “ferals”. What NZ needs to learn from this is that the divide that matters isn’t between right and left, but between the people and the elites, who view us with contempt and who routinely tell whatever lies are necessary to remain in power. Whether it’s that they had no idea they were being driven at 100mph; they had no idea what the staffer two doors down was up to; that they had no idea who gave them a donation despite calling their bag man seconds after speaking to said donor… they’ll look us in the eye and lie, then head to Pickwicks to chortle at our gullibility with their courtiers.

    We can’t change this sort of politics until we change the system, yet when given the chance to improve one aspect of it – MMP – we collectively shrugged and turned back to our dose of reality TV or the All Blacks.

    We are reaping not what we’ve sown, but the weeds we’ve allowed to flourish through having been too lazy to sow in the first place.

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  12. Grizz (597 comments) says:

    How is this news. Slater put out a Youtube clip 3 years ago showing how he accessed the Website. Its been sitting there for 3 years for all to see. Yes there may be ethical questions arising, but probably not strictly speaking hacking.

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  13. hubbers (137 comments) says:

    I have also visited the publicly available Labour Party website.

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  14. chris (644 comments) says:

    @itstricky I’m really unsure how reading a publicly accessible page is stealing. It’s certainly not infiltrating or hacking into the website. The fact it was indexed by Google means it either has to be have been linked from another page or in the publicly readable sitemap* so that Google could index it in the first place. Probably someone stuffed up.

    What you then do with that when you see the page is another matter altogether. Common decency says you should tell the Labour Party and they should stop making that information publicly accessible. I could be wrong, but didn’t WO attempt to tell Labour about it and they ignored it?

    * the sitemap is here http://campaign.labour.org.nz/sitemap.xml

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  15. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  16. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    Also in the Stuff article:

    Senior Labour ministers and press secretaries rang to point me toward The Standard, a Left-wing blog, to read its vitriol on certain days. Who had written those posts? I’m told many were written under fake names by Labour staffers paid by the taxpayer.

    That adds more weight to Is The Standard “a mouthpiece for Labour”? despite their continuing denials.

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  17. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

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  18. Scott1 (528 comments) says:

    Fentex,
    I agree with your post.

    And to that I add that if labour does it or national does it – the appropriate way to discourage behavior is to try to catch people misusing their power and punish whichever of them you find (regardless of whether there are others doing it).

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  19. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  20. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Yehudit. Beaten. Licks wounds. Pretends she’s going out. Cant resist it pops back up here.

    Pathetic!!! :)

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  21. goldnkiwi (1,280 comments) says:

    ‘Judith’ says so, you know it must be true!!!!!

    Vote ‘Judith’ for el Presidente she has the answer to everything. ;)

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  22. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Tell us all when you became pathetic then Judith? :)

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  23. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ goldnkiwi (1,066 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    You really need to get over yourself Goldnkiwi, the vast majority of your posts are simply attacking me personally, or my spelling or grammar – do you not actually have anything intelligent and original to say about the issues being discussed?

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  24. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Was it between your Masters and your (yet to be conferred) PhD that you suddenly realised you were an utter failure? :)

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  25. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (15,256 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 3:45 pm

    You’re entitled to your opinion Johnboy, just as I’m entitled to my opinion of you.

    At least I try to comment on other issues, you however only seem capable of attacking people rather than discussing the contents of their posts in an informed and intelligent manner.

    Go and get yourself a bowl of milk, you’re sounding very catty.

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  26. smttc (741 comments) says:

    Judith, you should stop making predictions. Your strike rate is crap.

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  27. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Oh Darling. How nice to see your little sharp claws exposed! :)

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  28. Ross12 (1,411 comments) says:

    To istricky , Judith and others

    As Grizz has pointed out Cameron Slater made a video a few yrs ago about easy it was to access the relevant section of the Labour party website and it has been there for all to see on the internet.

    If this was illegal why hasn’t Labour gone to the Police and pressed charges against Slater ? If there was one person besides JK they would like to take down it would be Slater. The answer can only be that nothing illegal was done.

    But the same cannot be said about Hager and his source.

    Also I don’t believe Slater did anything with the Labour info except have a little bit of fun pointing out how insecure the site was.

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  29. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ smttc (701 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    Really, tell me what I have got wrong then – please show me where the things I’ve predicted have being incorrect?

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  30. chris (644 comments) says:

    It’s funny when some of us argue certain points, it’s called a “planned concentration of the faithful” from the most argumentative person on this blog, the person who can’t help herself.

    No, I’m not trying to draw attention away from anything by discussing the supposed “hacking” of the Labour Party website, which was anything but. I think they’re all as bad as each other, especially if WO was also the recipient of stolen emails.

    What I can’t stand more than anything else is hypocrisy. The Labour Party being hypocritical about being “hacked” when they have National Party correspondence. Nicky Hager hating the GCSB and spying laws, when he’s effectively been spying himself. And so on and so forth. Doesn’t matter which side it is, they’re all pretty much as bad as each other under the surface.

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  31. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    You’re such a reactor Judith darling. Huge creator of humour too us all here at KB! :)

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  32. dime (9,860 comments) says:

    oh yeah! here i am! i have just “hacked” into kiwiblog an read all of your comments! shocking! just shocking!

    think i may go hack into redtube now an watch some porn.

    later on, im gonna hack the herald to read articles about the all blacks before tonights game.

    then im gonna hack into the bnz site so i can find a log in to my own accounts (cant hack that bit, ill need my password).

    love this hacking shit. without hacking, the onternet would be boring. it would just be a home page :(

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  33. PaulL (5,971 comments) says:

    I don’t really understand the Labour claim that they have an admission from National. Sounds like they had it in 2011. If it was a problem, surely they would have acted on it then? Why suddenly bring it out now? Hager is basically re-releasing 3 year old information and trying to make it sound current.

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  34. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Ross12 (1,196 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 3:51 pm

    Again Ross you are concentrating on, and trying to constantly divert the attention back to this one matter – you really are good at sticking to the plan.

    It is not illegal Ross – it is immoral. If Slater, as he claims merely wanted to bring the leak to the attention of the Labour Party, then he could have, and should have phoned them and drawn their attention to it. To discover the link he did not have to copy the members names, their phone numbers, their addresses or their credit card numbers. All he had to do what show he was a man of integrity and let them know that they had problems in their site.

    He could, and should have then been the bigger and better person and waited until they had closed it, before advertising it on his blog. Yes, he could still have made something of their incompetence, which is news worthy, but instead he decided to play ‘dirty politics’ with it. And that is what he is being accused of.

    Not illegal,as far as I know, but also very hypocritical to squeal like a stuck pig because his information has been stolen when he arranged and took more than 28GBs of data from people by hacking. That data has nothing to do with the Labour Party data base, it is a different issue.

    Your insistence of concentrating on this one issue is not lost – it is clear what you are trying to do.

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  35. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    The more you say the more you look like a silly bint Judith! :)

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  36. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Perhaps you should pretend you are going out again? :)

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  37. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ PaulL (5,958 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    Have you read the book? There is much more than what Labour are claiming – there is much much more. Labour are trying to find a way into the argument as ‘victims’ – they can’t, they aren’t the victims – the victims in this are the New Zealand public, who have to put up with the most disgusting, dishonest and dirty politicians in our history.

    And because they are all the same there is nothing we can do about. They aren’t the losers, they are the ‘winners’ – they’ve conned everyone – and are continuing to do it on this blog – they have too much to lose to admit they were wrong, or even their part.

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  38. IGM (291 comments) says:

    Judith has a thorn in its paw. Don’t know whether it is a huntaway or an eye dog.

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  39. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Stop trying to pretend you’re ignoring me Judith! :)

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  40. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Poor Judith is a liar and she won’t admit it! :)

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  41. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy

    I came back quickly because I thought you might be missing me – judging from the amount of attention you’ve been giving me, I was right.

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  42. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ chris (584 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    And still nothing to say about Slater’s hacking pals or his collection of 28GB of data which he skites was stolen from business etc, and hasn’t denied?

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  43. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    You are a sad wee liar Judith. Since I have that confession out of you I will bugger off and get on with far more important things so that you can carry on your pathetic tirade against the John Key government.

    Just remember 20th September. National 65 seats! :)

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  44. exile (34 comments) says:

    chris (584 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    And The Labour Party got the correspondence from the National Party how? So on the one hand they attack National for “infiltrating the Labour Party’s website” but on the other hand they have “correspondence from the National Party”. Hypocrisy much?

    Labour have correspondence from the National party because National sent them an admission, and presumably an apology for the unauthorised access of materials on the Labour website.

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  45. Kimble (4,434 comments) says:

    oh yeah! here i am! i have just “hacked” into kiwiblog an read all of your comments! shocking! just shocking!

    Indeed.

    http://bit.ly/1mSZAnX

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  46. MH (711 comments) says:

    the two most recent dirty political actions were when H.Clark gave up her electoral seat in an act surrounded in altruistic infamy to help save the world and more importantly to enhance her USA paid for UN bank account and then followed by Lieing Dalziel who has papered over the cracks of Christchurch.
    I have deided to cast my votes in the spoiled brat category hoping to force a draw in the Helensville electorate and have the winner decided by a toss of some foreign two faced coin, preferably a half Penny or at least force a legal challenge from Ms Brite.
    Can we all not imagine the calamity and delays if Internet Party youngsters ever had the opportunity to vote for National Continuance or prohibition – apart from them queuing outside of telephone booths to vote.

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  47. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Scott1 (474 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    I totally agree. There needs to be an official investigation into all of this by an independent party. And all those, regardless of which side they are on, be punished if they have taken part in stealing, hacking or possessing stolen ‘goods’.

    Such an investigation should also investigate the claims made, which can be easily disproved. All Judith Collins has to do is get an account of her Facebook comments on the dates mentioned and show that she did not take part in the conversations.

    That would totally clear the government of any wrong doing, and prove Hager wrong, and the people of New Zealand would not be left to ‘think what they like’ but be able to place the votes as informed voters, having all the facts in front of them.

    Of course John Key has said he won’t do that – one has to wonder why not? Surely if he believes nothing is wrong with his ministers, he would have no problem with that being proved once and for all?

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  48. RightNow (6,986 comments) says:

    I wish all you people would stop hacking the internet! It’s not ok to type a website address into your browser and see what’s served up!

    Actually the allegation that visiting an openly available website is hacking makes Laila Harre look like an internet expert. Was that the plan all along?

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  49. trout (937 comments) says:

    As I understand it Slater wanted to illustrate that an organization (Labour in this case) that allowed public access to information given to them in confidence would not be responsible enough to run the country. It could be compared to the ACC ‘kiosk” affair and were not the lefties so outraged over that breach of security?
    Curiously the Dompost is giving the Hagar book a once over lightly; yes they have questioned a few apparent indiscretions but the conclusion seems to be ‘nothing new here, let’s move on’. Hagar has rather blotted his reputation by publishing a rushed together, poorly researched, biased polemic – even the journos are nonplussed. Methinks the Herald is much more aware of the threat of bloggers and would like to take Whaleoil down. The irony is that their faux outrage will have Slater’s beloved ‘Sreisand effect’ and his readership will multiply.
    I have just heard Cunliffe giving a totally untrue statement re a letter from the Nats (written to the Labour party) re Nat staff accessing the Labour website. Fortunately the media have relayed the content of the letter. Key is correct in his statements – no hacking just ‘curiosity’.

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  50. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Judith (8,128 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 4:14 pm

    “Waffle,waffle,waffle….etc.etc.etc. Sad shit Judith! :)

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  51. Maggy Wassilieff (344 comments) says:

    @ Kimble.4.12… Clever.

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  52. itstricky (1,801 comments) says:

    I’m really unsure how reading a publicly accessible page is stealing.

    Take an *average* home user. Presumably healthyhomeshealthykiwis or whatever it was, didn’t actually “exist” at the time. They’re not going to go deliberately go trying to find unsecured non-existent sites, click through that directory listing to find backups of databases and then view them, are they? There is a point at which it becomes, as someone else pointed out, unethical. And, at that point, you have deliberately targeted and exploited a known weakness in a system. The act and action of deliberately targetting and accessing information that does not belong to you is a hack.

    Think the celebrity phone hacking case. They didn’t change their voicemail PINs. Are you saying that, because someone “happened to know” the magic number to dial and happened to know the last few digits of the celeb’s mobile number (in order to formulate the default PIN) that’s not hacking?

    It’s taking advantage of a known weakness in the phone provider’s system. Same thing.

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  53. RightNow (6,986 comments) says:

    itstricky – if it really was hacking then why wasn’t a complaint made?

    See here’s the thing, there was no complaint made to the police, Labour in fact apologised to people whose privacy they failed to protect.

    So, whatever you want hacking to mean, what actually happened clearly doesn’t meet the level required to be a criminal offence.

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  54. goldnkiwi (1,280 comments) says:

    Judith (8,128 comments) says:

    August 16th, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    @ smttc (701 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    Really, tell me what I have got wrong then – please show me where the things I’ve predicted have being incorrect?
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    Ffs been.

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  55. labrator (1,847 comments) says:

    Think the celebrity phone hacking case.

    Were these indexible by Google? As in so open that a computer, completely undirected by a human, could find them? Pincodes are a form of security. No security was diverted in the reading the publicly available Labour database. If you printed your bank records on the front page of the NZ Herald tomorrow there would be no ‘hacking’ if someone read them. Hence why there was no prosecution in 2011. A judge would’ve thrown it out.

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  56. oldpark (289 comments) says:

    I would have thought that with green party tricky Nicky HAGER the sicko crooked email thief ,admitting the theft and all the MSM sycophants feeding off every lie,especially the soon to be in big trouble The NZ Herald,are they or not parties to confessed theft.How about the TV3, not forgetting the Labour Party Channel TVNZ a hot bed of Labour Party Propaganda, aided and abetted by Corrin Dann( lie-bour party MP in waiting).Surely all are culpable of being accessories after the fact of theft.

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  57. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ RightNow (6,758 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    You know perfectly well what Slater did. The Labour party data based showed who had entered – one of those that entered after Slater was Jason Ede, key’s right hand man – he downloaded all the information Slater had – this was before Slater released the information – the IP address take it back to a computer at the PM’s office – the same computer that accessed the information again 8 days later (again before Slater published the story). On 1 June Ede sent an email with the news that Goff was going to be away. Slater wanted the story to hit when Goff was absent.

    Slater’s conversation with Bhatnagar shows that there was ‘civicrm stuff’ ( a progamme that manages members, donors, bulk mailing and such) – that it was not encrypted and that he was ‘rebuilding it now’. Slater then discusses with Simon Lusk, the following Friday that he had just got three files of all Labour’s online donations and CC details etc.

    Slater hasn’t denied this stuff – can you please show me the parts that are ‘ethical’ and that demonstrate Slater’s stated purpose of letting Labour know ‘nicely’ that they had a leak? How does having to ‘encrypt’ something fit into the ‘anyone could have done it’ story line?

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  58. itstricky (1,801 comments) says:

    So, whatever you want hacking to mean, what actually happened clearly doesn’t meet the level required to be a criminal offence.

    Unless, of course, they can now prove that Slatter took information and did something with it and/or distributed it, or pointed others in the direction of it.

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  59. Liberty (261 comments) says:

    “Senior Labour ministers and press secretaries rang to point me toward The Standard, a Left-wing blog, to read its vitriol on certain days. Who had written those posts? I’m told many were written under fake names by Labour staffers paid by the taxpayer.”

    Last night on Plunkets show. Robertson stated quite categorically that no Labour party MPs or staffers had any input on that forum.
    Which has to be the bullshit statement of the election.

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  60. RightNow (6,986 comments) says:

    Well there’s bound to be a complaint to the police then? Until then its not hacking to the level of a criminal offence.

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  61. davidp (3,580 comments) says:

    itstricky>Think the celebrity phone hacking case. They didn’t change their voicemail PINs. Are you saying that, because someone “happened to know” the magic number to dial and happened to know the last few digits of the celebs mobile (in order to forumulate the default PIN) that’s not hacking?

    The very act of prompting for a PIN is enough to assume that the information is assumed to be private. This web site thing is more the equivalent of placing personal information on your answerphone message, then complaining that people keep ringing you to hear it. Ring Ring… “Hello, Grant isn’t here right now as he is around at Hipkins’ place organising a coup. Leave your name and number and he’ll get back to you as soon as he gets in”… followed by Cunliffe complaining to the police about people “hacking” Robertson’s phone and writing stories about Labour Party barbecues.

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  62. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ labrator (1,778 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 4:33 pm

    Much of the information was not encrypted – Slater had to do that or get someone to do that. It would be interesting to see whether the Judge thought that was ‘open and free’ access or not.

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  63. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Nobody cares Judith other than lefty folks. You are wasting your time here preaching to the converted.

    Whatever it takes to get National over the line on 20th September is all that matters.

    Your sad rearguard action will make no difference. The result is already decided I’m afraid! :)

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  64. Ross12 (1,411 comments) says:

    Judith @ 3.58pm

    Sticking to a plan ??? What are you talking about ??

    I don’t belong to any group. I can think for myself.

    All I was doing in my comment @3.51am was responding to the general comments from supporters of the left who are saying that what Slater did with the Labour website is the same as what Hager and his source have done with Slater’s emails. The two situations are NOT the same.

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  65. RightNow (6,986 comments) says:

    Judith, encryption is a form of protection to make your data unreadable without first decrypting it. When something is not encrypted it is in plain text form, anyone can read it.

    How does having to ‘encrypt’ something fit into the ‘anyone could have done it’ story line?

    It was in plain text. Anyone could have done it.

    Much of the information was not encrypted – Slater had to do that or get someone to do that.

    Nothing had to be done, it was already plain text.

    (edit – and someone upticked you for that! You’re not the only one who thought that was a smoking gun lol)

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  66. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ trout (909 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 4:19 pm

    Key does not want an investigation because he knows what it will reveal.

    Judith Collins would not keep her job if anyone looked into it. Even if only 1% of that book was true – she’d be gone. And with Slater’s confirmation this morning that she did give him a name that she said yesterday she did not, she shouldn’t even be here now.

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  67. sbk (312 comments) says:

    “information was not encrypted”..sorry,but your point is?…my postal mail aint…still illegal.

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  68. tom hunter (4,735 comments) says:

    Well DPF, it looks like you’re not going to be invited to any blogger drinks in the capital with Danyl from now on:

    Something that doesn’t come across in the news coverage about Dirty Politics, and Cameron Slater, Jason Ede, Jordan Williams, Simon Lusk et al is just how fucking awful these people are. They spend their lives trying to poison and contaminate our politics. They enjoy seeing people suffer. They get excited by the idea of breaking up the marriages of their political enemies and ruining their lives. And John Key stands up and bleats about how everything they do is fine, and the people on the left are the nasty ones. Fuck him.

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  69. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ RightNow (6,761 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 4:49 pm

    I don’t understand these things, but either way, Slater had to rebuild it in order for it to be read, and that process took a matter of days. That does not sound to me like something that was ‘open’ for all to see – all to access maybe, but only those with the necessary skill were able to read it.

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  70. oldpark (289 comments) says:

    The so called smoking gun on the Labour Party web site being’ hacked’ in 2010/2011, it was wide open for all to see,in fact a jumbo jet could have driven through.The only people who didn’t access it at the time,were not in NZ .Cunliffe and all the wee sneaky sicko MSM ,do something useful ,get a real job.Surely the Labour Party 22% at the polls and Cunliffe below the margin at 12% are in a terrible state of flux,or is it ******.,or if Cunliffe wants a chance for redemption,he could tell us who from the vile Labour Party blog site known as” THE STANDARD” and a lawyer under another name, told you to set up a secret slush fund trust with crooked anonymous donors.

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  71. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Oh dear, I see I have become drawn into the least important part of this whole dirty thing – the Right wing political activists insistence that we only discuss the Labour Party breach, so that no one actually talks about the information that proves what a scheme pack of unscrupulous bunch they are.

    Their motto is of course – its not wrong if someone else does it too. And ‘National doesn’t have to clean and good, it only has to be better at being bad and dirty.

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  72. labrator (1,847 comments) says:

    Unless, of course, they can now prove that Slatter took information and did something with it and/or distributed it, or pointed others in the direction of it.

    If it can be proven that Slater did something with the information that was illegal then of course. Has anything come to light that shows he did do something of this nature?

    I’m glad we’ve agreed that reading publicly disseminated information is illegal is a silly assertion.

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  73. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Their motto is of course – its not wrong if someone else does it too.

    The rule of law says it’s wrong regardless of how many do it.

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  74. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ oldpark (93 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 4:55 pm

    So because Labour are scoring low, that makes it okay for what Slater has done, does it?

    The fact National is scoring so high, is because of the actions that we are discussing has wiped out any opposition. They are not scoring high because they are best to run the country – they are scoring high by default – because they wiped out the opposition with a long and detailed plan, implemented by Cameron Slater, Judith Collins and ‘friends’.

    That’s not a win because they can offer the country the best – they don’t even have that sort of faith in themselves, that’s why they had to conduct the campaign they have, because they know they don’t have anything good enough to win the fair way.

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  75. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Keep fighting your rearguard action Judith. Real New Zealanders don’t give a shit. To all of them Nicky Hager just looks like a silly little prat. That’s because he is a silly little prat. National 65 seats on 20th September. People vote for what matters to them. Sad political conspiracies don’t matter to 99% of the populace! :)

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  76. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    If it can be proven that Slater did something with the information that was illegal then of course.

    The primary issue is intent, and it’s clear that Slater had malicious intent.

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  77. Hugh Pavletich (192 comments) says:

    Cam Slater / Whaleoil and Labour Party information access

    While I have no time for Cam Slater / Whaleoils approach to politics, his post below needs to be seen …

    My confession: How I accessed the Labour Party web site – Whale Oil Beef Hooked | Whaleoil Media

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/confession-accessed-labour-party-web-site/

    So we have a choice … we can either vote for the tarnished or the incompetent.

    PM Key needs to have a hard think about his Governments ethics culture too … that starts at the top …

    Housing: Mr Key – Get on the Programme | Scoop News

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1212/S00041/housing-mr-key-get-on-the-programme.htm

    How about an issues focused campaign … please ?

    There are major issues …

    New Zealand’s Bubble Economy Is Vulnerable | Hugh Pavletich | Scoop News

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1404/S00166/new-zealands-bubble-economy-is-vulnerable-hugh-pavletich.htm

    Christchurch Failure – The Long History | Hugh Pavletich | Scoop News

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1404/S00200/christchurch-failure-the-long-history-hugh-pavletich.htm

    We deserve better … much better.

    Hugh Pavletich
    http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org

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  78. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Real New Zealanders don’t give a shit.

    Now you’re talking like ShawnLH, Johnboy.

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  79. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Don’t feed the troll!

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  80. smttc (741 comments) says:

    @ Judith 3.38pm

    If you want an official investigation then you have to wait until October 2026. Labour, the Greens and Winston have all the taxpayers money tied up in official inquiries until then.

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  81. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    So we have a choice … we can either vote for the tarnished or the incompetent.

    Voting for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.

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  82. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (15,274 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 5:04 pm

    So now you’re talking for all of New Zealand – goodness what an important person you must be.

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  83. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Bollocks UT. Real folks dont give a shit about all the crap that gets expounded on sites like this. None of them read it.
    Only weirdos like us! :)

    They care about the things that really matter like housing, wages, health, education, etc.

    As long as they are happy with that none of them will change the government. When their not, then they will change the government.

    I give this lot one more term! :)

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  84. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Don’t feed the troll!

    Are you just calling me a troll to deflect attention away from issues like:

    slander
    redefining language for political purposes
    the irrelevance of the left-right political divide
    DPF’s role in the VRWC

    or what?

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  85. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ smttc (702 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 5:08 pm

    An investigation won’t cost much at all, all that needs to be done is for Collins to open her facebook private comments for the relevant dates and show that Hager is wrong and she didn’t give information to Slater, and the whole thing would be solved and go away.

    A very simple solution – but she won’t – I wonder why not?

    @ Nostradamus (3,018 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 5:07 pm

    What’s the matter Nastradamus – don’t you like people having an alternative opinion to yours? Aren’t people allowed to make statements that don’t match the agenda? Or are you just really scared that someone, even just one person might actually be influenced a tiny bit?

    Surely if what you believe is the truth, you will encourage the PM to reveal the information that can prove Hager is wrong?

    I think you have just run out of arguments, and have nothing to defend the behaviour of your pals, with.

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  86. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Real folks dont give a shit about all the crap that gets expounded on sites like this.

    Are you saying that the people that Slater pissed all over are not real people?

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  87. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Poor Judith. Clutching at straws for an argument. What a waste of such an enormous edumication! :)

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  88. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    UT were you knocked on the head as a baby or were your parents retards?

    REAL people don’t read Whaleoil or KB or The Standard!

    Virtually none of them read the papers. The best you could hope for is that they watch some fuckwit like Campbell or Garner!

    None of them care! :)

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  89. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Judith:

    What’s the matter Nastradamus

    Sorry, I’d love to respond to your 5:13pm, but I need to cut my toenails. But since you like dicking around with people’s online names, should I call you Judith the Jam Tart?

    Or Judith the Liar?

    Judith (8,136 comments) says:
    June 28th, 2014 at 8:12 pm

    @ Nostradamus (2,874 comments) says:
    June 28th, 2014 at 8:10 pm

    Nothing at all my dear, I commented on one of your posts, like I do to many people, and since then you’ve asked me questions, which I’ve answered. If you don’t want me to comment to you – don’t friggin ask me questions – its not a difficult concept to get your head around!

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  90. davidp (3,580 comments) says:

    tom hunter>Well DPF, it looks like you’re not going to be invited to any blogger drinks in the capital with Danyl from now on:

    Apparently he is supporting the Greens, ignoring the way the Greens, Labour, and NZ First are using anti-Asian racism as a key electoral strategy, and that their potential coalition partners Mana and Dotcom are dabbling in pretty blatant anti-semitism. He’s also ignoring their support from union-linked bully boys, and the involvement of Presland (Labour) and Hey Clint (Greens) with the vile The Standard hate site. He’s also not mentioning the neo-facist chanting, the cross burning, and the neo-nazi grafitti that the Left are knee deep in. Some how he also forgot to mention Hager, who has used inherited wealth to avoid having to work, but instead has devoted himself to a life of sanctimonious personal political attacks. There are some really nasty people on the Left.

    But doesn’t his wife work for the Greens? Turei has confessed that Green staffers plant stories with the media. I assume that no one is stupid enough to think that they aren’t out to advantage the Green Party or to hurt the government. Is he going to follow up his post with a list of the stories his missus has leaked to the media, so we can see how involved she is in dirty politics?

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  91. Ross12 (1,411 comments) says:

    Looking at the Yahoo News poll it looks like the average voter could not careless about Hagers book

    https://nz.news.yahoo.com/cloud/polls/popup/38749b9f-7059-33ba-91aa-d1206a7de6e5/

    Its a “belt way issue”

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  92. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Do you want Judith to give them a suck first Nostra…… Softens things up a bit.

    Being Judith would probably soften more than your nails! :)

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  93. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Johnboy:

    That’s not a very nice suggestion!

    My toenails would probably curl up into a ball, I’d quite possibly lose my ability to walk, and then I’d become next to useless – a bit like Judith!

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  94. Longknives (4,691 comments) says:

    I think our Judith must be about the only person in New Zealand who cares about that creepy little weirdo Nicky Hagar’s book…
    (Honestly I reckon that guy has bodies in his basement..)

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  95. Hugh Pavletich (192 comments) says:

    John Armstrong: Vilification of author revives Muldoon-era tactics – National – NZ Herald News

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11309684

    … extract …

    “But that is all National’s fault. For years, the party hierarchy have turned a blind eye to an over-enthusiastic band of little helpers whose activities were questionable to say the least, but which were more than tolerated because of their track record of making life miserable for some of National’s opponents. “

    It has been noted elsewhere PM Key stating that he communicated with Cameron Slater every few months. Why ? Have journalists asked Mr Key ?

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  96. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    REAL people don’t read Whaleoil or KB or The Standard!

    I’d expect that the people Slater pissed all over were interested in housing, wages, health, and education, wouldn’t you?
    That would make them real people by your standards.

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  97. labrator (1,847 comments) says:

    It has been noted elsewhere PM Key stating that he communicated with Cameron Slater every few months.

    Citation required. Unlike Hager or Judith you can’t just say “I’ve got my sources”.

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  98. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I think our Judith must be about the only person in New Zealand who cares about that creepy little weirdo Nicky Hagar’s book…

    It sold out in under 48 hours, and the publishers and doing a reprint.

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  99. Longknives (4,691 comments) says:

    Ha Ha- Did Nicky tell you that??

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  100. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Judith just hates JK Longknives. Like all the sad lefties she cannot bear the thought that most of us normal folk think he’s the best thing since sliced bread. It completely turns their stomachs that he’s going to get a third term. Three terms is usually the time it takes for a government to completely dismantle what the last government did. Acolytes like Judith tear out their hair realising that everything Helen did is almost knackered. Oh happy day!! :)

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  101. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ha Ha- Did Nicky tell you that??

    No, I was told by someone who knew people who worked for the publishers and for Whitcoulls.

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  102. oldpark (289 comments) says:

    Was wondering why Prime SKY NEWS is always anti the National Government.Have yet to see people like Hagar the crooked thief being asked who did he get the stolen personal emails from.Sky TV should give a better balance in the news.After all TVNZ and TV3 are completely anti National Government One would think that Sky News would be a leader in news balance.HOPE SKY BOARD DOSN’T TAKE THEIR SUBSCRIBERS FOR GRANTED.IF THEY DONT GET A FAIR GO FROM A PAID SYSTEM, MIGHT AS WELL GO TO THE UNPAID CHANNELS WHICH ARE TAXPAYER FUNDED.

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  103. Tom Barker (138 comments) says:

    Let’s look on the bright side, guys. Judith Collins’ prime ministerial ambitions are completely shot. That’s got to be worth a drink.

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  104. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I’ll drink to that.

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  105. Other_Andy (2,613 comments) says:

    Labour releases emails confirming hacking
    By Patrice Dougan
    Saturday Aug 16, 2014

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11309931

    Hey Patrice you old Labour hack!
    OLD NEWS!

    Monday Jun 13, 2011
    Labour security breach a ‘politically motivated attack’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10731963

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  106. trout (937 comments) says:

    Judith, in view of the fact that you seem very confused as to the how Slater accessed the Labour website (and the outcomes) I suggest you hold your nose and check out Whaleoil’s explanation (up today on his website – careful though – you may be accused of hacking). Discourse thereafter may be better informed.

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  107. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    I think she’s quite sexy Tom.

    I fancy her more than JK funnily enough! :)

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  108. Hugh Pavletich (192 comments) says:

    Larator … PM Key communicating with Cameron Slater was reported in one of the Fairfax articles as I recall. Mr Key saying so himself.

    I was extremely surprised Mr Key had any contact with Mr Slater because of the blindingly obvious political risks involved. One would think Mr Key would have made this clear to Ministers and National MPs as well.

    And really … does Judith Collins have the maturity and judgement to be Minister of Justice ? She is clearly well out of her depth. PM Key should have dumped her long ago.

    Monday mornings first job for Mr Key needs to be to fire Mr Ede and put Judith Collins on the backbench.

    In my considered view, John Armstrong of The New Zealand Herald’s assessment, as noted in a post of mine above, is spot on.

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  109. SGA (994 comments) says:

    Longknives at 5:33 pm

    I think our Judith must be about the only person in New Zealand who cares about that creepy little weirdo Nicky Hagar’s book…

    Not if the amount of space it’s taken up on this blog over the last few days is anything to go by! And a bookshop I passed today was promising more copies soon – someone’s reading it.

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  110. Zapper (1,019 comments) says:

    Judith, why do you keep going even after it becomes obvious that you don’t even know what encryption is? You don’t know what you’re talking about. So why keep going even when everyone knows that you don’t know what you’re talking about? Even you must know how obvious it is.

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  111. RichardX (325 comments) says:

    labrator (1,780 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 5:34 pm
    It has been noted elsewhere PM Key stating that he communicated with Cameron Slater every few months.
    Citation required. Unlike Hager or Judith you can’t just say “I’ve got my sources”.

    Key revealed today that he speaks regularly with Slater.
    …..
    Key said he regularly called Slater, who broke the story of the Len Brown affair, “to see what he’s got on his site and mind”.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9723130/Looks-like-Slater-is-Keys-Peters-source

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  112. Zapper (1,019 comments) says:

    Just saw Cunliffe spouting off on the news. Someone surely needs to out his extra-curricular activities. This smug wanker needs to get what’s coming to him. I guess the problem is that National can’t do it. Labour won’t, they’d rather he lost then release it the next day.

    Labour obviously knew this book was coming, and decided to try on the “Vote Positive” bullshit, knowing they might win 1-2 votes after the book came out.

    The poll on One News is interesting/not surprising. Basically no-one gives a shit.

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  113. billr (21 comments) says:

    Have you seen this? It’s Cameron Slater showing how he got into the Labour party webstie.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnOAeVaU5xM

    I watched this when it came out three years ago, it just goes to show what a bunch of plonkers are at the helm of the then labour party.

    There was no hacking as you can see.

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  114. labrator (1,847 comments) says:

    @RichardX Thanks very much.

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  115. Other_Andy (2,613 comments) says:

    “And a bookshop I passed today was promising more copies soon – someone’s reading it.”

    Never said there weren’t a lot of gullible people around.
    A fool and his money are easily parted.

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  116. flipper (3,989 comments) says:

    Hugh Pavletich (71 comments) says:

    August 16th, 2014 at 5:58 pm

    ****

    Horse manure.

    There are many in National, at both regional and national levels, who believe Collins is a liability.

    But all these calls for resignation have done is to strengthen her position.

    Breathe through your nose!

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  117. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    But all these calls for resignation have done is to strengthen her position.

    How does that work?

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  118. Other_Andy (2,613 comments) says:

    billr says:

    “Have you seen this? It’s Cameron Slater showing how he got into the Labour party webstie.
    I watched this when it came out three years ago, it just goes to show what a bunch of plonkers are at the helm of the then labour party.”

    Yep, it is the same story as three years ago.
    Never underestimate a NZH ‘journalist’ such as Patrice Dougan (Who has form.) to make an ass of herself again and again.

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/12/idiot-herald-gets-wrong/

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  119. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Flipper:

    Good comment but, surely, there’s a simpler way of analysing this:

    – We have an election in – what – 35 days. We live in a democracy, so the voters will have their say.

    – Judith Collins is 5th on the party list.

    – If National gets more than five MPs, which will definitely be the case, then National-supporting voters can be taken to have endorsed Collins.

    – If Collins wins her electorate seat (Papakura), then electorate voters can be taken to have endorsed her (which they did by an overwhelming margin at the last election).

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  120. berend (1,705 comments) says:

    Ross12: Looking at the Yahoo News poll it looks like the average voter could not careless about Hagers book

    It may be a belt way issue, but it reached a #1 spot on Amazon on this morning. Currently #3. I bought the last copy yesterday. I would say it’s selling very very well.

    That may not contradict your statement perse, but this could well by Nicky’s most sold book ever.

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  121. goldnkiwi (1,280 comments) says:

    Well with all the promoting that ‘Judith’ has been doing is it any wonder lol.

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  122. UpandComer (528 comments) says:

    John Key is amazing. The left wing journos have spent the last year trawling his steps through Europe and around the world from before he was a politician, and they not only can’t find dirt, they can’t find anyone who will say something bad about him.

    Imagine if we could see the stuff in the emails between the people on the Standard and the UN and the Labour party. Given what they say about JK and National and even each other on the news and on social media, just imagine the viciousness and the awfulness of their private correspondence.

    Judith, People’s Flag et al, Slater released a video showing how any 5 year old could ‘access’ Labour’s stuff, no one hacked – this is going to just be blowback all over the place.

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  123. Hugh Pavletich (192 comments) says:

    Richardx … thank you for drawing the Fairfax article to our attention … confirming the unwise relationship of Key and Slater.

    Flipper … in my view too many of the Nationals are unthinking sheepies, blind to obvious problems … more interested in going on infantile power trips.

    Its not dirty politics … its childish politics.

    This has really shown up serious flaws in Mr Keys leadership … and now he … and more importantly the National Party … are going to have to pay the price for his character flaws. “Smile and wave” isn’t going to work any more.

    Clearly Mr Key is going to have to dig his way out of this hole (he dug himself) very fast.

    Remember he did the same thing to Phil Heatley.

    Following the 08 election he clearly told Heatley (them Housing Minister at the time) to do nothing about housing issues. The Nationals said they would deal with housing affordability in the lead up to the 08 election. We had already had Gerry Brownlees Commerce Committee Housing Affordability Inquiry through 07 / 08 .

    Mr Heatley did as he was told.He loved all the glory of being a Minister.

    By early 2013 when Mr Key had to come on board on housing issues due to the public and political pressures, he fired Heatley and replaced him with Smith. The poor Heatley got fired (conveniently) for doing as he was told … and never learnt of it until the morning of this dismissal !

    Heatley was far less of a problem than Collins.

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  124. OneTrack (3,024 comments) says:

    zapper – “Even you must know how obvious it is.”

    Matt pays her by the comment.

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  125. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Good grief Nostradamus. I wish you would stop making utterly sensible comments such as your 6:31.

    Folk on this and any other blog would much rather read waffle and bullshit.

    If you keep this sort of stuff up Judith and I shall both be redundant! :)

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  126. adze (2,105 comments) says:

    @tom hunter

    Well DPF, it looks like you’re not going to be invited to any blogger drinks in the capital with Danyl from now on:

    Yes, and Psycho Milt declared that Danyl’s post was the bestest and truest post evah, even though in it Danyl was guilty of a little airbrushing of his voting history (as Graeme Edgeler pointed out in the comments). I don’t profess to like Cam Slater much. But there is little new under the sun, and it’s deeply hypocritical to be concerned about dirty politics only at a tribal level.

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  127. rangitoto (239 comments) says:

    “The Labour party data based showed who had entered”

    Bullshit

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  128. rangitoto (239 comments) says:

    “It may be a belt way issue, but it reached a #1 spot on Amazon on this morning. Currently #3. I bought the last copy yesterday. I would say it’s selling very very well.”

    The publicity from TV has given both Hager and Slater a boost as far as sales and page hits go. Neither could afford that sort of advertising.

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  129. marcw (243 comments) says:

    I was suprised that Grant Robertson categorically denied any Labour MPs OR staffers were involved with the Standard blog site. Isn’t L. Prentice (the blog operator and moderator) one of David Cunliffe’s advisers, and I expect he is also part of the Labour election “war room” team. If so, I believe Grant Robertson has lied, and is not fit to be an MP.

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  130. MH (711 comments) says:

    Don’t forget Lauren Bacall was a whistle blower.

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  131. Other_Andy (2,613 comments) says:

    “Isn’t L. Prentice (the blog operator and moderator) one of David Cunliffe’s advisers, and I expect he is also part of the Labour election “war room” team.”

    Correct.

    The world according to the left and the compliant clueless media…

    The Standard is advertised as “The Standard « The New Zealand voice of the labour …” and is run by Labour activists.
    It attacks National politics and digs up dirt on National politicians.
    This is fine, nothing wrong here.
    Whaleoil is ran by somebody who occasionally talks to National party members, amongst others.
    It digs up dirt on any politician.
    This is wrong and is dirty politics.

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  132. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    Folks farrars blog is starting to sound like a fuckwits convention, post on but if the great unwashed voters read the vile shit ,the whinny posts of the right and left post, they would think is this NZ?? farrar and the standard and greasy slater oil is this NZ,FUCK blogging shit dosnt effect most thinking NZs

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  133. V (701 comments) says:

    @lurcher.
    Malcolm Tucker says it best.

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  134. Other_Andy (2,613 comments) says:

    marcw says:

    “I was suprised that Grant Robertson categorically denied any Labour MPs OR staffers were involved with the Standard blog site. Isn’t L. Prentice (the blog operator and moderator) one of David Cunliffe’s advisers, and I expect he is also part of the Labour election “war room” team. If so, I believe Grant Robertson has lied, and is not fit to be an MP.”

    Oh, and don’t forget David Cunliffe’s electorate chair, Greg Presland, who posts at The Standard under the pseudonym ‘Micky Savage’

    Grant Robertson is a big fat liar.
    What a surprise (not).

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  135. hj (6,922 comments) says:

    LPrent is a Labour advisor..?

    :roll:

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  136. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    “Isn’t L. Prentice (the blog operator and moderator) one of David Cunliffe’s advisers, and I expect he is also part of the Labour election “war room” team and not in the war room.

    Correct.

    I doubt it. He says he worked with Helen Clark in Mt Albert but not with any leader since. I don’t think he’s worked for Labour in Wellington.

    The co-trustee at The Standard is Mike Smith, He was Labour Party general secretary for yonks until he retired in 2009. He worked as an adviser in David Shearers’s office.

    Greg Presland has been committee chair in Cunliffe’s New Lynn electorate and became famous as the lawyer who set up Cunliffe’s secret trust and organised his donations last year. I’m sure he doesn’t have anything to do with Labour in Wellington or with the war room.

    Another Standard author Stephanie Rodgers worked as a secretary in Labour’s Parliamentary office but probably before becoming author. She now works at EPMU.

    Details of Standard authors and their many Labour connections here:
    http://yournz.org/2014/08/16/is-the-standard-a-mouthpiece-for-labour/

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  137. hj (6,922 comments) says:

    I think what intercepted communications tell us is who is behind the façade. Imagine if the public learned HC looked down on them; imagine if her goal was to make them a minority in their own country; imagine if she favoured a world of open borders?

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  138. Hugh Pavletich (192 comments) says:

    Hager book turns 9% against National – poll – Vote 2014 News | TVNZ

    http://tvnz.co.nz/vote-2014-news/hager-book-turns-9-against-national-poll-6058685

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  139. labrator (1,847 comments) says:

    Asked how it influenced their view of the National Party, 4% were positively influenced. But 9% now have a negative view of National, while 82% aren’t influenced much.

    Problem is they didn’t state the actual question asked. DPF has gone to something lengths to educate on the importance of the question asked. If that 9% is the majority of the 13% that were going to vote Greens/Mana/Labour then it really changes nothing, especially as 4% then said the opposite.

    Polls immediately after a large event often have a big swing. Remember then Len Brown protests? I wonder what he’s polling at now… This storm in a teacup isn’t even close to that unless there’s much much more interesting revelations to come the masses will likely forget. Hager has scratched the sore that is Slater and it feels like something might ooze back the other way next week.

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  140. cha (3,943 comments) says:

    The poll.

    http://www.colmarbrunton.co.nz/index.php/polls-and-surveys/political-polls/one-news-colmar-brunton-poll

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  141. RightNow (6,986 comments) says:

    WTF? Only 9% are negatively influenced? Hahahaha

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  142. Nookin (3,284 comments) says:

    Labrator

    When I first read the link provided by Hugh I thought that there must be two different polls. The conclusions drawn by the reporter are reckless bordering on dishonest. There is no evidence at all that 9% would vote against national. The question didnt even ask if they were negatively influenced against national in the first place. This is irresponsible stuff.

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  143. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    “Only 9% are negatively influenced?”

    Lefties are encouraged by that, saying that it’s going to smoulder away and erode National support.

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  144. RightNow (6,986 comments) says:

    Hmm, left bloc now roughly polling 45%? It only takes 20% of them to pretend they’re now going to switch their vote and that’s the 9%.
    Frankly I thought it would be higher.

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  145. RightNow (6,986 comments) says:

    lurcher1948 (85 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 8:02 pm

    Folks farrars blog is starting to sound like a fuckwits convention

    Well off you fuck then, and the problem will be solved.

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  146. jonar (19 comments) says:

    Seriously, how does this post from Chris get 34 upvotes?!


    "From http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11309931
    Speaking to media this afternoon Labour leader David Cunliffe said: “The Labour Party is today releasing correspondence from the National Party, dated 2011, which confirms that at least one of its staff were involved in infiltrating the Labour Party’s website.”

    And The Labour Party got the correspondence from the National Party how? So on the one hand they attack National for “infiltrating the Labour Party’s website” but on the other hand they have “correspondence from the National Party”. Hypocrisy much?"

    If you actually read the article it says this.

    The correspondence “…consists of an email from National’s general manager Greg Hamilton, to Chris Flatt, then Labour’s general secretary, dated June 13, 2011.”

    The national party emailed the labour party!

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  147. SPC (5,595 comments) says:

    jonar, chris did not comprehend the story outlined in the article and those who upticked his comment had not read it. It often happens that the popularity of comments here has nothing to do with the wider world and the reality in it.

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  148. Hugh Pavletich (192 comments) says:

    Nookin … the question is … does Mr Key do nothing and allow this to fester … or does he act decisively, restore trust and get the focus back on real issues ?

    The Colmar Brunton poll is confusing. As you state, the TVNZ reporting was misleading.

    How these sorts of events are managed, is the important thing.

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  149. Yoza (1,816 comments) says:

    SPC (5,439 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 10:18 pm

    jonar, chris did not comprehend the story outlined in the article and those who upticked his comment had not read it. It often happens that the popularity of comments here has nothing to do with the wider world and the reality in it.

    Stupid commie pervert!

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  150. labrator (1,847 comments) says:

    Thanks @cha

    @nookin Totally agree, 9%, if that’s the best shot they’ve got and they could only influence 9% of the 45% that are already voting left, well, basically it’s just giving you the percentage of the country that like to get outraged. The 4% saying it positively affected them are the ones with a sense of humour.

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  151. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    Hugh’s right. Key needs to step up and show leadership against dirty politics. If he doesn’t do that he’ll remain tainted by his association with Slater and the actions of Ede. It could potentially lose the election, it’s as simple and serious as that.

    It was a cup of tea that shook up 2011, this time it could be a shrug of tacit approval of this:

    Politics is a dirty, disgusting, despicable game. And it involves dirty, disgusting, despicable people at all levels.

    Dirty politics must be cleaned from the top

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  152. Hugh Pavletich (192 comments) says:

    John Armstrong of the NZ Herald …reprint … Otago Daily Times …

    Opinion: National ignores incriminating material | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/election-2014/312776/opinion-national-attacks-hager-ignores-incriminating-material

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  153. SPC (5,595 comments) says:

    labrator, maybe the 4% are white race nationalists who do not trust men who wear suits but love a bit of biff and nasty on the side and are now inclined to support National and leave Key’s posters alone.

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  154. labrator (1,847 comments) says:

    Key needs to step up and show leadership against dirty politics. If he doesn’t do that he’ll remain tainted by his association with Slater and the actions of Ede

    I disgree. Key’s gut instinct about they “cup of tea” was to never do it. He did it on advice and regretted it afterwards. He stated before this book came out that he thought it was hysterical ranting, he stated the same when it came out and it seems that’s got across to most of the population who just don’t care. Key needs to stay on message that it’s business as usual and let the left self-destruct. Cunliffe’s doing a great job of that by trying to associate this with “Watergate”… only in his dreams.

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  155. LabourDoesntWork (287 comments) says:

    Nice job, Duncan. You kept a lid on this outrageous abuse of someone active in politics. They win.

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  156. Paulus (2,608 comments) says:

    Understand that Hagar is still giving copies of his book away.
    That is why the publishers are printing more.
    Many people have free signed copies so far. Assume many will be left in boxes as his backers agreed to get the publicity.

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  157. Nookin (3,284 comments) says:

    Pete
    I don’t think the ball is in Key’s court.

    If Cunliffe denounced the theft of Slater’s database and criticised Hager for gross breaches of privacy (consistent with his rants over GCSB) and refused to make any capital over the book then he might turn this election on its head.

    He won’t do that, though, because he is too superficial in his principles.

    Hager has no business whatsoever having possession of that information and his threat to disclose more is abhorrent. He has personal email from people who write on personal issues. He has email about private (non-government) clients.

    If dirty politics are to be toned down then someone has got to make a bigger stand than you expect of Key. If Key sacks people Cunliffe will gloat from here to the election. That means theft, dishonesty, breach of privacy and ambush by someone who calls himself a journalist but who is on a personal crusade, will win out.

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  158. G152 (305 comments) says:

    August 16th, 2014 at 8:40 pm

    Hager book turns 9% against National – poll – Vote 2014 News | TVNZ

    http://tvnz.co.nz/vote-2014-news/hager-book-turns-9-against-national-poll-6058685

    And states that the majority of voters frankly couldn’t give a stuff.
    Liebors negativity is biting them in the rear.
    And Hager is a nonevent
    Only weeks to go and they’re losing voters by the score

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  159. deadrightkev (441 comments) says:

    I am way more right leaning than Slater or DPF but its time to admit the governance in NZ is of an abysmal quality. Whaleoil has done nothing to raise the political standards of debate. Some of the stuff he blogs about specific politicians that do not fit his narrative is gutter stuff.

    If Slater was an independent blogger and his blog even moderately even handed (as I must say you are often under duress DPF) it would not be so bad but these days you either agree with the Slater world view or you are blocked from the site.

    Hager is a low life sure but he is simply doing a tit for tat from where I sit. Its time we got some politicians in parliament that are above this crap and just want to move NZ forward.

    There has never been a doubt in my mind that the nice Mr John Key has never been that in reality. Its not his persona that annoys me, its his lack of honesty.

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  160. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Understand that Hagar is still giving copies of his book away.
    That is why the publishers are printing more.
    Many people have free signed copies so far. Assume many will be left in boxes as his backers agreed to get the publicity.”

    He’s not in it for the money then?

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  161. cha (3,943 comments) says:

    Understand that Hagar is still giving copies of his book away.

    Do tell..

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  162. V (701 comments) says:

    Problem with Garner is he is probably the most heavily compromised NZ journalist there is. Does anyone think Whale doesn’t have dirt on Garners prodigious rooting?
    The TAB wouldn’t even give you odds on that.
    So no surprise his opinion is of the Officer Barbrady variety.

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