General Debate 14 August 2014

August 14th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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189 Responses to “General Debate 14 August 2014”

  1. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    With all the spin, smearing, denial, and obfuscation of politics there is a singular quality which is typically not well understood of highly regarded. This quality is known as truth, and and has the properties of being both consistent with the facts and consistent with reason. When truth is not expressed it is due to one of two reasons: an honest mistake, or intentional deception. Without the tools to discern intent the reader is at the mercy of those who are skilled in the art of lying.

    There are several indicators which are warning signs that the speaker is intentionally misleading his audience. The first is deflection, the drawing of attention away from unanswered questions with unimportant or emotive issues. Another is defensiveness, when can be expressed as an attitude of overconfidence or arrogance, giving the audience the impression that they should know better than to question the word of the speaker. Defensiveness can also be expressed though counter-attack, implying that questioning the speaker is an act of hypocrisy which should be rightly dismissed.

    Further to these is a third category, misplaced faith, which tests the criteria of intentional deception becuase the speaker may even lie to himself and hold to the illusory belief that he is being honest despite his words being in conflict with reality.

    Case in point is the difference in the accounts of of an event that was experiences by a well known author. The author had an life-changing experience which left him blind for days, but the nature of the experience was misreported to the loss of those who believed him.

    After his experience, witnesses related how he had been told to go to a particular place where he was to receive further instructions. However, years later when he related his experience to a prominent and influential figure, he changed the story to a false account in which he had been appointed to an esteemed role, leaving out the fact the he was blinded when this all happened.

    The moral of this story is that is you don’t want to be misled by the spin doctors then it is up to you to do you due diligence and investigate the claims to find out where the truth really lies.

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  2. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  3. duggledog (1,620 comments) says:

    One of two things needs to happen:

    Hager needs to be dealt with in the same way as the News Of The World

    or

    Nobody can ever write a personal email or letter ever again.

    Print Is Permanent!

    (You were good on Morning Report today David. Dry mouth though.)

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  4. Viking2 (11,672 comments) says:

    No great headlines in the morning papers. Surely some Journo has read the book and wants to spout forth.

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  5. mjw (401 comments) says:

    There seems to be some disagreement in National. The PM says the claims are unfounded. Steven Joyce says they are already well-known. Which one is it?

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  6. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth , your last two lines are the important ones with your history of connecting the dots leading to some pretty weird stuff like Agenda 51 UFO center, chem trails ,HAARP etc , leaving your commonsense brain behind in the process.

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  7. ciaron (1,448 comments) says:

    A question for the legally inclined:

    The Unsolicited Electronic Messages Act 2007 makes very clear that a provider of goods and/or services cannot send email promoting the same without the consent of the receiver.

    This seems clear cut when applied to a personal email account, but, is the requirement for consent altered if the email is sent to a “work” account?

    Thanks.

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  8. oldpark (411 comments) says:

    Was certainly great pantomime to see Corrin Dann from the Labour Party Channel TVNZ,bursting with excitement and fervour about a bombshell story in a book written by a nefarious guy called Tricky Nicky Hager.Corrin Dann( Labour MP in Waiting.)I truly believed he almost had an orgasm with expectation,sadly the bombshell book which Corrin Dann held up to promote ,was just a lot of stolen emails.Bombshell became sadly for Corrin Dann ( zzz)like a soft cock Corrin Dann nothing rose.

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  9. mister nui (1,030 comments) says:

    Another piece by a brain dead moron at the Herald interviewing their keyboard:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11308455

    This is nothing more than a hatchet job on Malaysian airlines; trying to imply that they’re bringing undesirables to NZ…. When reading it, I thought the 27 airline infringements by Malaysian seemed relatively low for an international airline – which it is. I note that there are 384 infringements by other airlines, of which there are only 11, giving an average of ~35!

    I’ll bet any money that one or two of these others have much higher figures than the 27 recorded by Malaysian.

    Why do these fuckheads in our media continually treat us as thick? Or are they actually so thick themselves they’re devoid of critical thinking? I guess maybe that’s it, because if they had any skills that were actually marketable and worth anything, they wouldn’t be working for a backwater such as the Herald, earning only 45k….

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  10. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    This seems clear cut when applied to a personal email account, but, is the requirement for consent altered if the email is sent to a “work” account?

    It depends on the legal jurisdiction of the “work” account. The personal jurisdiction of the state (aka jurisdiction in personam) is not universal.

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  11. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    Someone else has already pointed out that hagers’ book wouldn’t sway one National voter to not vote National.

    I can’t see what the fuss is about.

    Beyond ,as oldpark says, the usual media frenny,self generated to crate an aura of relevance for themselves.

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  12. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    Denis Horne obviously didn’t get his jerk off from Shrewdith yesterday.

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  13. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  14. Harriet (5,200 comments) says:

    “…..My critic went on to say, in full moral equivalence style, “Both sides in this conflict seem to be behaving abominably.” Umm, no – not even close. Again, one might as well foolishly suggest that both the Allies and the Nazis were behaving equally abominably.

    The truth is, one side during WWII was clearly the epitome of evil, while the other side was on the side of what was right. That did not mean the Allies were pristine and fault free, but compared to who they were fighting, they were angels of light.

    Israel is also not perfect, but compared to who she is up against, she is looking pretty good actually.

    Postscript

    And as a perfect example of the very thing I have been talking about, this classic case of idiotic moral equivalence just came to my attention:

    Opposition assistant treasury spokesman Andrew Leigh[ALP] said the image was “horrendous” and noted “extremism comes in all sorts of guises”. “We need to celebrate the Australian Muslim community to recognise that there are many peoples of different faiths in the world and extremism comes in all sorts of guises. The Oklahoma bombing was carried out by a Christian.”

    This comment, from the Australian, refers to the shocking photo of the young son of a Sydney jihadist holding the decapitated head of a victim in Syria.

    Utter baloney. Not only was McVeigh not a Christian, but he is the only non-Muslim terrorist these mental midgets can come up with. Every day we find more Islamic bloodshed and terror, but all these guys can do is point to an event which took place two decades ago. Useful idiots indeed.

    Israel has of course been in this land off and on for three thousand years. She has endured plenty of harrowing experiences over the centuries. And now she is surrounded by a host of nations which have vowed to destroy her.

    Also she has a bit of recent history to still fully and properly digest:

    If you had just recently gone through something like the Holocaust, then it is fully understandable that you might be a bit testy and on edge as well……”

    http://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/08/13/israel-and-the-myth-of-moral-equivalence/

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  15. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Again, one might as well foolishly suggest that both the Allies and the Nazis were behaving equally abominably.

    They both ran concentration camps and were both responsible for inflicting holocaust.

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  16. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    Tremaine, the cartoonist,is a rank coward.His piece in today’s ODT shows a wild beast with fangs chasing some western looking men,who say “I recall finding it amusing when it was just a puppy”

    The only allusion to our friends in the religion of peace is the beast is wearing an Arab head rag.

    The beast is labelled “Religious fundamentalism”.

    Tremaine is a coward as we all know the problem is not religious fundamentalism, but Islam. And it was never a puppy.From its earliest years it has been intolerant and genocidal.

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  17. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    One thing the National Party seems to have forgotten is that there is a reason why they are called PUBLIC servants and we are called PRIVATE citizens.

    We should know everything they do outside the interests of national security as they are appointed by us, to represent us.

    Understanding the principles of basic liberty, they should not know anything we are up to unless it impinges on the liberties of others or is illegal. The reason this is is because Government by definition has a monopoly of violence and force and there need to be shackles put on this power.

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  18. Yogibear (375 comments) says:

    I have a dyed in the wool Labour mate I play a few sports with. Complete unionist. Anti John Key.

    His reaction to Hager’s book and the “revelations” was pretty much “Is that it? Boring!”

    No glee. No “gotcha.” No “you guys are screwed” He was just completely underwhelmed.

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  19. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ kowtow (7,774 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 8:16 am

    Of course it won’t change solid National supporters votes. But what you seem to constantly under estimate is power of the swing voters. They are the ones that changed from National, to support Clark and allow Labour three terms, and then changed back to support National, for the last two terms. They are the fickle ones, but are the ones that decide who governs.

    They are also the ones that are most likely to be influenced by dirty tactics – which is why they are targeted – Slaters blog isn’t necessary to make National Supporters keep voting for National, they were never going to change unless perhaps English was leader (that certainly made them think twice).

    Slater and DPF and their team of supporting ministers carry on like they do, because they want to capture the swinging vote with the games. Hager’s book of course was written for the same audience. It’s game on as to who will be impressed or not.

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  20. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Tremaine is a coward as we all know the problem is not religious fundamentalism, but Islam. And it was never a puppy.From its earliest years it has been intolerant and genocidal.

    The slander seems to be spreading…

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  21. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    We should know everything they do outside the interests of national security as they are appointed by us, to represent us.

    They are not appointed by citizens, as citizens are under the power of the state.

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  22. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    PS, less my 8.24am be misconstrued, there is nothing “reveling” or “shocking” in this book, it’s just a media beat-up over nothing.

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  23. mister nui (1,030 comments) says:

    Further on mediaites totally devoid of critical thinking; the Herald have that fluffy air-head, Rachel Smalley, who couldn’t use critical thinking if her life depended on it, to host political “Hotseat”interviews.

    Jesus wept, if that is the level of media analysis in our country, any wonder we have a generally uninformed proletariat…

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  24. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    Ugly – what is the “State”?

    where does “the state” derive it’s power?

    In short, what actually is the anatomy of the State?

    http://www.dailypaul.com/263716/a-summary-of-murray-rothbard-s-anatomy-of-the-state

    In short:

    “Just as the two basic and mutually exclusive interrelations between men are peaceful cooperation or coercive exploitation, production or predation, so the history of mankind, particularly its economic history, may be considered as a contest between these two principles. On the one hand, there is creative productivity, peaceful exchange and cooperation; on the other, coercive dictation and predation over those social relations. Albert Jay Nock happily termed these contesting forces: “social power” and “State power.” Social power is man’s power over nature, his cooperative transformation of nature’s resources and insight into nature’s laws, for the benefit of all participating individuals. Social power is the power over nature, the living standards achieved by men in mutual exchange. State power, as we have seen, is the coercive and parasitic seizure of this production – a draining of the fruits of society for the benefit of nonproductive (actually antiproductive) rulers. While social power is over nature, State power is power over man. Through history, man’s productive and creative forces have, time and again, carved out new ways of transforming nature for man’s benefit. These have been the times when social power has spurted ahead of State power, and when the degree of State encroachment over society has considerably lessened. But always, after a greater or smaller time lag, the State has moved into these new areas, to cripple and confiscate social power once more. If the seventeenth through the nineteenth centuries were, in many countries of the West, times of accelerating social power, and a corollary increase in freedom, peace, and material welfare, the twentieth century has been primarily an age in which State power has been catching up – with a consequent reversion to slavery, war, and destruction.

    In this century, the human race faces, once again, the virulent reign of the State – of the State now armed with the fruits of man’s creative powers, confiscated and perverted to its own aims. The last few centuries were times when men tried to place constitutional and other limits on the State, only to find that such limits, as with all other attempts, have failed. Of all the numerous forms that governments have taken over the centuries, of all the concepts and institutions that have been tried, none has succeeded in keeping the State in check. The problem of the State is evidently as far from solution as ever. Perhaps new paths of inquiry must be explored, if the successful, final solution of the State question is ever to be attained”

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  25. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth , your last two lines are the important ones

    The context is just as important.

    with your history of connecting the dots leading to some pretty weird stuff like Agenda 51 UFO center, chem trails ,HAARP etc

    That’s Area 51, not Agenda 51.

    leaving your commonsense brain behind in the process.

    Didn’t you once post that the evidence shows that ET’s don’t exist, or somesuch?

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  26. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    Didn’t comrade Helen Clark say we live in a “benign” world?
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/defense-secretary-world-exploding-all-over_802893.html

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  27. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  28. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ EAD (732 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 8:31 am

    I suspect you are probably right, I’ll have to read it first to decide – however, what it does confirm and validate is what many have been thinking. That validation can be a powerful force if given weight from others who may also have evidence of such dirty tactics.

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  29. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Dennis Horne (2,069 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 8:00 am

    Do you have somewhere else where us really neat and not so dumb kiwibloggers can tick? Ignore the ‘ticks’ Dennis – they don’t mean anything in the bigger picture!

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  30. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “So the fact those stolen emails prove our government ministers are using corrupt practices, is negated by the fact they were obtained by corrupt practice?”

    Could these emails now be requested via the OIA?

    “PS, less my 8.24am be misconstrued, there is nothing “reveling” or “shocking” in this book, it’s just a media beat-up over nothing”

    Criminal behaviour doesn’t shock criminals.

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  31. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    Unfortunately Judith you are in the minority in that you’ll read or at least think it through and ask yourself is this reasonable behaviour?

    Politics for 80% of the population is sound bites and some of these soundbites might stick although I think with people liking to defend their “teams”, it will mainly just entrench the 40% support of the National base and entrench the 35% of the combined Labour/Greens base.

    It looks like we may have an election decided by personalities and smears and soundbites without any proper debate on the issues and direction which both main parties seem committed to.

    The truth is Labour and National have more in common that unites them than they have differences that divide.

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  32. Komata (1,220 comments) says:

    Judith

    Re: ‘Since when did Key decide that – before or after his daily phone call to Slater?’

    Really???

    Since today is a day of (supposedly) ‘shocking’ revelations, and in the interests of the transparency that you have mentioned at various times, I have to ask HOW DO YOU KNOW that JK has a daily conversation with Mr. Slater?

    As you evidently have ‘inside information’ about JK’s habits, please tell us more; I for one would be VERY interested (especially as by your own admission, you dislike the JK intensely).

    So, ‘revelations’ please (and who knows, if they are ‘sensational enough, Hager, N might even decide to contact you)…

    Over to you…

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  33. Inthisdress (322 comments) says:

    I couldn’t help but ask when looking at the ‘Vote Positive’ LP billboards that they had planned an integrated strategy to employ Hager’s book as part of a crusade to ‘clean up’ politics. That would be a wild-eyed conspiracy of course, and require teh LP to have had prior knowledge of what Hager was going to publish, but given that we all know Hager is an impartial ‘journalist’ motivated only by the exposure of objective truth, that would be just too fantastic to contemplate..

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  34. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Ugly – what is the “State”?

    The state is intangible, it is the secular system which directs public policy.

    where does “the state” derive it’s power?

    From the obedience of the people.

    What is the anatomy of the State?

    The primary purpose of the state is to defend its citizens from threats. For democratic or pseudo-democratic states, the state’s idea of what a threat is extends over time to include things which are deemed to be necessities. The primary role of defence implies that the state has a military structure with a well defined chain of command. In some cases the commander in chief is a foreigner, making the idea that it is an independent state an absurdity. Democratic states are constrained by the rule of law, although there is some disagreement over what the rule of law actually is and it’s applicability in times of war.

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  35. Komata (1,220 comments) says:

    Inthisdress

    Yeah, Nah…

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  36. flipper (4,328 comments) says:

    Judith…,..

    You are more intelligent than the “Hager believers”.

    Please try to remember that Hager has not produced any authenticated, documentary proof, to back his dot joining. He claims to have it, but discloses nothing. And to disclose might also disclose his lies.

    I suggest you go to Newstalk ZB, listen to Hosking tear Hager a second arsehole, and then listen to Hosking interview Slater. Both are on the web site.

    Slater is in Korea, but to believe TV3 and TVNZ, later has a fancy telephone diversion hook up to give the media the impression that he is in Seoul, while he hides in Auckland.

    Hager claims that he “discloses” the National Party membership of Slater and DPF. Not sure that Slater is a current financial member, but he has never hidden his leanings, nor his connections. Hell, his father is a former national President. David is well known in national circles, and has never hidden his membership or allegiance.

    As for leaks and inspired news items, these have been around since Adam was a cowboy, so to speak. Hell, at one time I had two apple boxes full of Cabinet papers and other documents – all given to me by the Minister in question.

    There is nothing that I have seen in the extracts published that I find disturbing, not even the supposed links between Big Tobacco and Peter Dunne. Dunne’s son has worked for that industry, and last time I looked tobacco was a legal substance.

    While I have no time or respect for Collins, Hager makes allegations, but presents not a shred of evidence. Easy to claim, but more difficult to substantiate.

    Much ado about nothing..,.,. except that all the illegalities I have seen so far are on Hager’s tab.
    In the meantime Armstrong and Dann are having wet dreams over unsubstantiated claims by the ultimate “shock, horror, probe” artist – a disreputable parental leech, who writes fiction every three or so years.

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  37. IGM (614 comments) says:

    NewstalkZB attempting to get “Tojo’s” band of weirdos traction from Hager’s lies. Come on advertisers, pull your contracts from these bastards.

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  38. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    How creepy looking is this Hager dude. check out his pic on the front of the herald site.

    Holding up his book with a smug look on his face.

    That dude insists you put the lotion on…

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  39. OneTrack (3,350 comments) says:

    EAD – “The truth is Labour and National have more in common that unites them than they have differences that divide.”

    Even if that were true, which I dispute, which is the competent party of the two?

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  40. dime (10,212 comments) says:

    Great to see Ben Smith at fullback.

    The Cantab mafia did their best this week to convince us via their opinion columns that Dagg must be retained.

    Luckily the coach doesn’t listen to their shit.

    Dagg’s form prior to the 2011 world cup was great. I think it was 2009 (maybe 10) he scored an incredible try in south africa to win us a test. Then at the world cup he was peerless. Poor Mils looked old as hell in comparison.

    He’s been on a slide ever since though. He should never have moved to chch. playing under a coach with the charisma of herman munster and a bunchof backs coaches about 1 year older than him. He should have moved to the chiefs when he had the chance.

    im not sure he has the drive to get back. we will see. i hope he does. once you’ve climbed that mountain though, i can see how you’d mentally move on. i would.

    Bummer my boy Piutau isnt at least on the bench. His form on the wing in last years end of year tour was sensational.

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  41. Scott Chris (6,178 comments) says:

    Interesting radio – Sean Plunket/Radio Live just had Slater on and about to interview Hagar if anyone is interested.

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  42. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    I have just listened to Hosking interview Hager. Hager sounds like an effeminate drama queen (with the emphasis on ‘Queen’), he does not like being questioned and does not like being asked to explain his lies.

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  43. jcuk (756 comments) says:

    I received a small well thought out Green Party statement of their principles a day or two ago and I agreed pretty well with every point they made … but not their solutions. I thought wouldn’t it be wonerful if we had a National-Green coalition where the good ideas of the Greens were tempered by the pragmatism of National as senior partner. The trouble with our blue-green government is that it is all too little too late .

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  44. flipper (4,328 comments) says:

    Great sledge on Hager by Michael Bassett a few minutes ago…

    “Hager – a ferret-faced fruitcake”. Invited to repeat, he said: ” A ferret-faced fruitcake”.

    Bassett has also detailed to Leighton Smith the extent of left wing angst, nay fury, that they are unable, on any issue, to make in-roads into National, and J Key in particuklar.

    And, after slicing and dicing the left wing media (TVNZ describing Hager as a bombshell in one breath, and saying he (Dann) had not read the book in the next), he outlined one of the dirty tricks used by Helen Clark. According to M Basset she was in the habit of phoning talk back shows, and disguising her voice by talking through a sock. It was marvellous stuff, and will no doubt be archived shortly on NewstalkZB’s website.

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  45. Odakyu-sen (851 comments) says:

    Ugly
    “They both ran concentration camps and were both responsible for inflicting holocaust.”

    It’s important to distinguish between
    – concentration camps
    – labor camps
    – extermination camps

    (Some camps have more than one function). The British-run Boer War concentration camps were not designed to be extermination camps, although a significant numbers of inmates died there.

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  46. Lance (2,712 comments) says:

    The Ugly and Judith side show….

    Seriously stop feeding these trolls, they are getting ridiculous in the extreme and dominating most threads with endless drivel

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  47. Yogibear (375 comments) says:

    Jcuk – the blue greens are out there (Guy Salmon, Stephen Rainbow…..a guy who at last count owns over 7 cars) – unfortunately the purges and ideological cleansing that saw the greens become the watermelon party in the 90s pretty much turned these guys away from politics.

    NZ is worse off for it.

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  48. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    The deadly combination (marriage?) of a jihadist and a Bainite is debasing KB’s GD.

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  49. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Seriously stop feeding these trolls, they are getting ridiculous in the extreme and dominating most threads with endless drivel

    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

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  50. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    The British-run Boer War concentration camps were not designed to be extermination camps, although a significant numbers of inmates died there.

    Try Andernach.

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  51. insider (845 comments) says:

    Outrage for me today was guyin espiner asking if tame iti wanted an apology from the police for the raids. Bizarre world when a top journalist implies a convicted felon deserves an apology for getting caught . He should have asked if iti had apologised to his neighbours for being such a twat.

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  52. ciaron (1,448 comments) says:

    Try Andermach
    No thanks,

    The Institute for Historical Review (IHR), founded in 1978, is an organization whose primary purpose is to disseminate views denying key facts of Nazism and the genocide of Jews and other victims. It is considered by many scholars as the world’s leading Holocaust denial organization

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  53. Yogibear (375 comments) says:

    @Insider – you lost me at “top journalist”

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  54. ross411 (902 comments) says:

    Judith (8,021 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 8:19 am
    @ oldpark (73 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 8:09 am

    So the fact those stolen emails prove our government ministers are using corrupt practices, is negated by the fact they were obtained by corrupt practice?

    Where do they prove this? You have links, right? Because otherwise, you’re just making things up. And then proceeding to litter this blog with comments based on your made up claims.

    Are we allowed to read your emails, if you get hacked by someone, as long as we can claim (but not prove) you are guilty of some crime?

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  55. crazy88 (4 comments) says:

    Slater in Israel, O really. The part pay off, for his rabid defence of Zionism. 30 seconds till I am accused of being a Holocaust denier.

    What is the level of the term “hacker” as in Slander/Libel? Hacker has been liberally used in the case of Labour Party website being open for anyone to access, as reported by Cameron Slater many months ago. Lazy mainstream journalists would have been better to discuss this Labour website access when it was reported months ago.

    The only Hacking is by Hagar himself and he should be pursued and punished.

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  56. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    What is the level of the term “hacker” as in Slander/Libel?

    In IT language “hacker” can be used an as compliment for someone who got results by using an innovative technique, but more usually it means someone who has defeated a security protocol to access restricted information or gain unauthorised access to a system.

    The only Hacking is by Hagar himself and he should be pursued and punished.

    Receiving copied emails isn’t hacking by any stretch of the imagination.

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  57. Carlos (683 comments) says:

    Does anyone think this is a huge waste of university and tax payers money?

    “Research on influence of Maori on rugby”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11308227

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  58. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    Even the Frogs know the Kenyan’s priorities: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2724271/When-people-dying-come-vacation-French-foreign-minister-slams-Obama-golfing-Iraq-burns.html

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  59. mikenmild (12,340 comments) says:

    I note that study is funded from Australia. Over here, we only fund studies such as:
    ‘Touchy-feely justice or veiled retribution? An ethnography of therapeutic jurisprudence in New Zealand problem-solving courts’, University of Auckland, $300,000
    or:
    ‘Affect and identity in contemporary television drama’, Massey University, $300,000
    or:
    ‘How do males adjust their sperm quality in response to social cues?’, University of Otago, $345,000

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  60. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Manolo , do recall Christs admonition about casting stones,

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/16/bush-lied-about-giving-up_n_102138.html

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  61. lilman (973 comments) says:

    What a joke this book is,nothing new here.
    Do you honestly expect to be shocked that pollititions were. Being political.

    As for Cunliffe bullshitting on about never seeing this before,doesn’t he remember MIke Williams trip to Aussie to dig dirt?

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  62. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, thank you for correcting my typo error. Yes it’s in fact Area 51 and it’s myths and realties are covered here,

    http://www.skepticblog.org/2014/01/08/area-51-myth-and-reality/

    Are far, far cry from your weird attempt to connect the dots.

    http://illuminutti.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/conspiracy-connect-the-dots.jpg?w=627

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  63. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ lilman (902 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    so which is it, dirty politics at their worst ever, like was being claimed on here at the beginning of the week,

    or, the same ol’ stuff, like you are now claiming?

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  64. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ crazy88 (3 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 11:06 am

    So you are going with the “shoot the messenger and allow the corrupt to get away with it”, philosophy then?

    Or is it the ‘don’t look for what we’re doing wrong, and then you’ll have nothing to report’ philosophy?

    Or even, ‘if you don’t like what you see, don’t look’ philosophy?

    Or perhaps the “dishonesty pays” philosophy?

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  65. Odakyu-sen (851 comments) says:

    I checked out the IHR homepage http://www.ihr.org/

    Initial impression: Gee, David Irving’s book is at the top of their IHR Store, closely followed (let’s have a look) by “German Villany,” “Pearl Harbor (the secret of the secret war),” and “Goebbels”.

    Initial conclusion: These IHR guys are David Irving and WWII grand-conspiracy fans of the first degree.

    Secondary conclusion: Someone who is into historical revisionism and conspiracies would have a field day here. (I wonder who that might be….?)

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  66. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    “Even if that were true, which I dispute, which is the competent party of the two?”

    Yesterday on Jim Mora’s the guy from the taxpayers alliance said Labour election bribes work out to something like $4000 per person or voter,and Nationals’ bribe to something like $2000.

    So both parties are much the same ,bribing us with our own money ,it’s just a question of which party’s are more appealing to the idiots who like to live off other peoples’ money.A negative.

    And which party thinks it can more competently manage the fall out of continued govt spending and borrowing.A negative.

    That’s on the fiscal side.Don’t get me started on each party’s embrace of a socially “progressive” agenda.Again it seems to be a question of which is the least damaging.A negative.

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  67. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    Conspiracy theories aside, Goebbels by Irving is by far the best book written on the Nazi criminal.
    Despite it faults, the biography presents the dwarfish Minister of Propaganda as the true monster he was.

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  68. Komata (1,220 comments) says:

    Judith

    As I am genuinely interested in learning more about the matter, I would respectfully suggest that, having made a definitive statement at 0838, concerning the apparent daily communication between JK and Slater, a reply to my 0847 question is in order, as many of us will be interested in learning more about your ‘insider’ information, and possibly even your source (which could, of course, be yourself FAIK…)

    I would however also suggest that if you do not in fact respond and address my question, various people within the readership will draw possibly incorrect conclusions…

    As I said at 0847, over to you…

    Thanks.

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  69. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    The Institute of Historical Review is exclusively devoted to Holocaust Denial , sundry Anti Israeli/ Jewish and Neo Nazi causes,

    http://www.skepdic.com/holocaustdenial.html

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  70. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    Moderation seems to be getting far from moderate at Whale Oil.

    Moderators have just blocked about a dozen regular commenters (in addition to dozens and dozens of trolls suggesting suicide, death and other vile things). Some of these have been with us for years; thousands of comments to their names.

    I can’t figure it out. Somehow people have stopped applying self control.

    The warnings that were given for a week now have run out. Off topic, low calorie comments (“I agree!”), using the comments as a chat room, discussing how to kill another commenter with overdoses of meds or rat poison…

    And if you don’t know the rules, tough. No warnings – unless you read this one quickly.

    You may be having a good time, but you are hindering instead of helping, so now you’ve been moved out of the way.

    This notice will be deleted after 2 pm.

    While the Whale’s away the moderators play.

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  71. ciaron (1,448 comments) says:

    Pete, that’s the second uptick I’ve given you today. :)
    I don’t normally go to there but I was looking at the Helensville debate coverage and saw that post. I thought I’d somehow gotten myself lost on the Standard….

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  72. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Komata (1,127 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    Sorry, I have been out, and didn’t read your comment until now.

    I don’t know that they share daily phone calls, I was being factious – artist licence mimicking what was said on TV last night –

    At the moment I am struggling with a dilemma that I’m trying to sort out regarding this issue – I simply don’t wish to be involved, but have information, gained legitimately that supports claims that Hager makes.

    If I had my way – the election would be put off for 12 months, an independent investigation would be conducted into the various types of corruption allegations between all the parties, and once the truth is known, we then go to the polls. At this stage whoever wins, will not be the best person for NZ – I doubt that person exists as a politician at this stage.

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  73. adc (558 comments) says:

    Now we have a real choice tho – the Civilian party…. imagine if they got a seat, they probably wouldn’t know what to do with it.

    As for this whole dirty politics bollocks. I would have been surprised if three wasn’t some form of continual management of information about opposition members. It’s not like Labour doesn’t do it. It’s not like everyone doesn’t have an SIS profile.

    Why should we expect our politicians to be naive? Wouldn’t that make them less suitable for the job?

    Jason Ede has a bit of a reputation. It’s entirely believable that he acted without JKs knowledge on this.

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  74. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Komata

    Regarding that information. It was an OIA request for correspondence between a Government Minister and various media agencies, and the blogger Cameron Slater, over an entirely different issue to this one – it was quite a while ago.

    The information received included a large amount of documentation including copies of everything provided to and from those people. It also shows that an information request from Slater was addressed immediately, in fact, given the number of documents included one can only presume the information was prepared before the official request for it. Included in those documents was one that was not provided to the other media agencies, all of which were required to wait between 5-20 days for their OIA requests to be filled. That’s all I’m prepared to say about it – make whatever you want of it. As I said it poses a dilemma for me because I can see fault on both sides, and do not wish to contribute to any particular political beast.

    I am in the process of reading the book, I will seek advice when I’m finished it, if I feel the need to.

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  75. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    ciaron – they’re getting far more ruthless and draconian than lprent is at The Standard. A shame, it can no longer be considered an open forum, those not banned will be treading very carefully – unless it’s just an excuse to filter out unwanted opinions, which is the impression I got when they banned me.

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  76. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    @adze

    As for this whole dirty politics bollocks. I would have been surprised if three wasn’t some form of continual management of information about opposition members. It’s not like Labour doesn’t do it.

    A couple of hours ago I suggested that Greens were not all lily white either in Twitter – and was quickly mobbed and attacked, including by a Green candidate, Marama Davidson. They preach about the behaviour of others but don’t like being challenged about their own.

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  77. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    @ BB

    “I have just listened to Hosking interview Hager. Hager sounds like an effeminate drama queen (with the emphasis on ‘Queen’), he does not like being questioned and does not like being asked to explain his lies.”

    This is typical for conspiracy nutters, as we can see on KB. They insist that their conspiracies are truth, or claim that their “logic” is impeccable, and then get defensive and angry if reasonable questions are asked.

    There is a strong element of cult like thinking in the conspiracy world. Being largely removed from reality, they exist in a bubble of their own making, constantly self-referencing themselves.

    Ask for independent confirmation of their claims, and they will reference another conspiracy nutter. Ask again and they will claim they have answered, when in fact they have not. Ask again and they enraged and call you a liar.

    Sound familiar?

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  78. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    Stephieboy will find it to his liking: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/13/curl-obamas-one-achievement-outgolfing-tiger-woods/

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  79. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Pete George (23,035 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    I don’t think there is a person that doesn’t know this sort of behaviour is carried on by all parties. But the fact remains National have been caught out – trying to minimise it and excuse it by saying ‘but they do it too’ frankly sounds stupid, especially from people that promised open and transparent governance (yeah, like that was going to happen). Trying to play that card will not work Pete – I’m not surprised you meet with opposition to it.

    The best that could happen now is for National to stand up and say that yes, there has been some indiscretion – in an attempt to keep up with the political environment, but that they pledge to put an end to it – to encourage a clean and clear political process – therefore giving New Zealanders at least something to be hopeful for. New Zealanders love the humble person.

    And the borders need to be locked – keep Whaleoil out of the country – we don’t need his poison in NZ politics.

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  80. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    This is typical for conspiracy nutters, as we can see on KB. They insist that their conspiracies are truth, or claim that their “logic” is impeccable, and then get defensive and angry if reasonable questions are asked.

    For example:

    UT: What exactly have I said that is not relevant to the argument?

    SH: Everything you have said is irrelevant.

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  81. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (4,204 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 1:36 pm

    Really Shawn, you are going to reduce this to mocking a man with a speech impediment and make it about physical looks?

    Have you taken a look at the other players in this? Have you looked in the mirror lately, are you a prime example of Adonis?

    How shallow can you be?

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  82. Manolo (14,166 comments) says:

    The awful pair (made for and married to each other) in action!
    Yes, KB needs more Bainites and jihadists as much as the crim Ure.

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  83. Komata (1,220 comments) says:

    Judith

    Thank you; being on the horn of a dilemma is at times painful… I hope that you enjoy the latest Hager ‘revelations’ , and would certainly be interested in learning your opinion concerning it, should you feel so inclined. Unfortunately, based-upon his previous works, I suspect that it will be more of the same, albeit dressed in a different suit, tailored to a specific audience and ultimately containing little of substance.

    BTW: One does have to wonder about the political ‘inclinations’ of the publisher…

    (Just a thought).

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  84. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Komata (1,128 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 1:44 pm

    Yes, I am aware that the author has a strong political bias, although to be fair, that didn’t stop him having a go at Helen.

    If I didn’t have these damn documents here, I would probably be doing the same usual ‘they’re all bad eggs’ stance – stick the lot of them on Sommes Island without a boat! – but I know there is something in what Hager is saying – so its not quite that easy.

    As a kiwi I’m pretty disgusted – with everyone actually. The nastiness is coming from all sides – we didn’t or rather shouldn’t need a book like this – but maybe it will be enough to force some kind of change for the better.

    As I have said – may the best man win on 20th September – but let him win because he is the best person to guide this country, not because he is best at being corrupt. Sadly I fear that the winner will be whoever can tell the best lies.

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  85. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “Really Shawn, you are going to reduce this to mocking a man with a speech impediment and make it about physical looks?”

    Judith. I was responding to the issue BB raised of Hagar getting angry and defensive, not to the issue of his looks.

    BB said: “he does not like being questioned and does not like being asked to explain his lies.”

    That was what I was commenting on.

    I never, ever attack people for how they look or sound, but that was contained in BB’s quote, which I should have left out. My mistake. But it was not what I was responding to.

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  86. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    There is nothing more to argue.

    We could always argue about the way that you assumed that you had won after you posted this, Shawn:

    UglyTruth (4,435 comments) says:
    August 12th, 2014 at 10:56 pm

    That was hilarious.
    Goodnight.
    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    ShawnLH (4,203 comments) says:
    August 12th, 2014 at 10:58 pm

    Lost again Ugly. Run away like a coward, like a good little Jew hating Nazi coward eh? :)
    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

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  87. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “We could always argue about the way that you assumed that you had won”

    You had failed to make your case. Simple as that. Then you ran away. Simple as that.

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  88. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    You had failed to make your case.

    What do you think my case was?

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  89. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “What do you think my case was?”

    The claim that Paul lied, or embellished, and that there is a contradiction between the two texts in question. And yes, you failed to make your case on those issues. You can try to re-litigate the whole thing, but that would be pointless.

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  90. lilman (973 comments) says:

    LOL,Judith you like liars,why do you pine for the good old days of Helen and Co?

    Its a joke this whole thing,do you honestly believe that left leaning reporters have never been called or emailed by labour MPS?

    You decision making is poor and after you join all the dots I can see why you believe a creep on a paper run over a father who was murdered.

    Oh Baby you get those dishes done now.

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  91. IGM (614 comments) says:

    Is Hager one of the gaggle in the rainbow room? I can’t see any woman looking at a ferret faced weasel like him . . . he must have real chip on his shoulder being born and having to live with a face like that, not to say his envy of anything successful.

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  92. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    “What do you think my case was?”

    The claim that Paul lied, or embellished, and that there is a contradiction between the two texts in question.

    No, my claim was that Paul lied (but earlier I did say embellished), and there is a contradiction between what the witnesses said had happened and what Paul said had happened.

    You said that there was no contradiction because the message was only for Paul and the witnesses didn’t hear what was said clearly, but that leads to the problem that Luke would have had to have misrepresented the events, which we agree did not happen.

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  93. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “If, as you said, that “Everything you have said is irrelevant””

    The irrelevancies are your opinions, which have nothing to do with the text. Your entire case was built on opinion, thus your entire case is irrelevant.

    In academic Biblical studies you were engaged in what is called eisegesis, rather than exegesis.

    “Eisegesis is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one’s own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text. This is commonly referred to as reading into the text.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis

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  94. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “No, my claim was that Paul lied (but earlier I did say embellished), and there is a contradiction between what the witnesses said had happened and what Paul said had happened.”

    Yes, but your assumption that the witnesses say anything at all is an assumption, a reading into the text your own presuppositions. You have to introduce a claim that is not in the text itself. That in academic circles, is a fail.

    The text in question never says that it is the view of his companions. Unless it did so, you have no argument other than opinion, an opinion you cannot prove.

    Nor can you prove their is a contradiction between the texts. That again is opinion, reading into the text what you want, not what is there.

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  95. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    The irrelevancies are your opinions, which have nothing to do with the text. Your entire case was built on opinion, thus your entire case is irrelevant.

    My case was built on the facts from the KJV:

    Acts 22 contradicts Acts 26 regarding Paul’s purpose. In Acts 22 his purpose is to proceed to Damascus for instructions, while in Acts 26 his purpose is to be a minister and a witness.

    Acts 22
    10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

    Acts 26
    15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
    16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
    17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
    18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

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  96. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “My case was build on the facts of Acts”

    Not even remotely.

    “Acts 22 contradicts Acts 26 regarding Paul’s purpose.”

    No it doesn’t. Again, that is opinion, reading into the text what you want.

    If I say I drove to the mall to buy beer, and later I say I drove to the mall to buy wine, it is not a contradiction if in fact I drove to the mall to buy BOTH beer and wine.

    Acts 22 and Acts 26 are not contradictions. The first is a partial statement, the second a fuller statement.

    So unless you can prove that both statements are contradictory, rather than the latter being a fuller statement, and you can’t, then you have nothing more than your opinion.

    Case closed.

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  97. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Yes, but your assumption that the witnesses say anything at all is an assumption, a reading into the text your own presuppositions. You have to introduce a claim that is not in the text itself. That in academic circles, is a fail.

    Making assumptions is inherent in any interpretation. In academic circles the principle of parsimony (Occam’s razor) is applied to arrive at the most reasonable interpretation (i.e. the interpretation that relies on a minimal set of assumptions).

    In the following verse the most reasonable assumption is that the information came from one more witnesses, but not from Paul.

    And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
    Acts 9:8

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  98. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    “Acts 22 contradicts Acts 26 regarding Paul’s purpose.”

    No it doesn’t.

    The contradiction is that in Acts 22 Paul was to learn of the nature of his appointment (i.e. his purpose) in Damascus, but in Acts 26 Paul says that he learned the nature of his appointment while he was in the presence of the light.

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  99. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    may the best man win on 20th September
    We dont elect a president in this country the prime minister is not in charge of direction of any thing he is a figure head for the party. Most decisions are made by the party executive not the prime minister hes job is to do as the executive tells him
    American political presidential personality politics are not transferable into the nz political landscape no matter how hard you and the msm try.

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  100. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “Making assumptions is inherent in any interpretation.”

    And assumptions are opinions.

    “In the following verse the most reasonable assumption is that the information came from one more witnesses, but not from Paul.”

    That’s not the most reasonable assumption. It’s your, and read this slowly, O P I N I O N, that it is the most reasonable. But Biblical scholars would dispute that.

    “The contradiction is that in Acts 22 Paul was to learn of the nature of his appointment (i.e. his purpose) in Damascus, but in Acts 26 Paul says that he learned the nature of his appointment while he was in the presence of the light.”

    Also not a contradiction. Paul was told by Christ that he would be a minister, and that the nature of this and his purpose would be more fully explained in Damascus.

    So again, we are back to arguing over your opinions and interpretations, not the text itself.

    Unless you can bring something else other than opinion and slanted interpretation, you have no argument.

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  101. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth,
    This review of a book that refutes the claim that Eisenhower was responsible for the death of 800,000- 1 million German POWs is expertly refuted hear ,,

    By 
    Harold Y. Grooms

    This review is from: Eisenhower and the German Pows: Facts Against Falsehood (Eisenhower Center Studies on War and Peace) (Hardcover)

    “Gunter Bischof and Stephen E. Ambrose provide a written rebuttal to Canadian writer James Bacque’s charges that between 800,000 and 1,000,000 German Prisoners of War (POW’s) and Disarmed Enemy Forces (DEF’s) were deliberately starved to death in 1944-45 on orders of General Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bacque’s best-selling work, Other Losses, (Stoddart Publishing Company, Limited, Canada) sold millions of copies when first published in 1989. Bischoff and Ambrose take issue with his conclusions and openly question both his credentials and motives for publishing this work.

    In this scathing rebuttal the authors assemble a collection of essays from a variety of noted historians who rebut point-by-point the conclusions made in Other Losses. They do not deny that initially conditions in U.S. camps, particularly those located along the Rhine River, were indeed, “horrific” and that POW’s/DEF’s did indeed die. What they deny is that the six camps there were representative of the more than 200 U.S. camps in theatre. They also emphatically deny there was a systematic policy of slow starvation instituted by “Ike” to make this happen. The authors attribute the overcrowded and unsanitary conditions to massive capitulation of German units and civilians fleeing west to avoid capture by the Soviets. Added to this was the necessity of feeding populations recently liberated from Nazi tyranny, and shipping shortages caused by moving troops and supplies to the Pacific for the anticipated invasion of Japan, the result was a food shortage in which POW’s and DEF’s were last priority per policy enacted in Washington. They assert that while conditions from April to July, 1945 were indeed lamentable, they were eased as quickly as logistically possible. The most glaring difference was in the estimated number of deaths: as many as 1,000,000 according to Bacque and as few as 15,285 by the U.S. Provost Marshall.”

    While no one knows exactly how many one thing died is certain: Conditions in war-ravaged Europe post-World War II left millions impoverished, without food, clothing and/or shelter. Not ever a Five-Star General could issue an order and make this situation go away. In the chaotic period addressed with Cold War tensions building, it is hard to believe that an American icon like Eisenhower could or would emulate the Nazi’s whom he openly loathed and had just devoted his entire efforts for four long years to defeat. I titled my review of Bacque’s work, Say It Ain’t So! After reading Bischof and Ambrose I am personally convinced, It Just Ain’t So!!”

    And as the reviewer subsequently asks if the My Lai massacre couldn’t be covered up how could 1 million people die seemingly without trace and hidden for so long. ?Surely surviving family members and relatives would be eager to know.?

    http://www.amazon.com/review/R3572HVLBV8YNK/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R3572HVLBV8YNK

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  102. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    That’s not the most reasonable assumption.

    So what do you think the most reasonable assumption is?

    Here’s the verse:

    And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
    Acts 9:8

    My interpretation is that the information came from one more witnesses, but not from Paul.

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  103. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “My interpretation is that the information came from one more witnesses, but not from Paul.”

    Now that is the first honest thing you have said in this debate, “My interpretation.”

    Fair enough. But that means your claim that Paul is lying is also your interpretation.

    And your attack claim that I follow a liar is also just your interpretation.

    So you have admitted that I am right. These are your opinions, nothing more.

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  104. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    “My interpretation is that the information came from one more witnesses, but not from Paul.”

    Now that is the first honest thing you have said in this debate, “My interpretation.”

    What do you think that I said before that was dishonest?

    Also, there remains this point which you have yet to address:

    “Acts 22 contradicts Acts 26 regarding Paul’s purpose.”

    No it doesn’t.

    The contradiction is that in Acts 22 Paul was to learn of the nature of his appointment (i.e. his purpose) in Damascus, but in Acts 26 Paul says that he learned the nature of his appointment while he was in the presence of the light.

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  105. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “What do you think that I said before that was dishonest?”

    Your claim that the problem is the text itself, when in fact the problem is your interpretation.

    “Also, there remains this point which you have yet to address”

    I addressed it twice above, at 2:38 and at 2:52.

    The supposed contradiction rests on your interpretation of the text, not the text itself.

    So unless you have anything more than just your opinions, case closed.

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  106. Gulag1917 (1,083 comments) says:

    California Courts Kill Robin Williams

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  107. goldnkiwi (1,612 comments) says:

    ‘Judith’ if, as you say you have evidence of a crime (or whatever), why didn’t you address it at the time, why mention it now, almost conveniently?

    I seem to recall words to that effect regarding further witness statements in the Bain trials, regarding people not coming forward with information earlier, I guess they too were of more than one mind. Or is it just different when it is you? (Rhetorical)

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  108. goldnkiwi (1,612 comments) says:

    One good thing if the Hager book has sold out to individuals, awareness of politics is alive and well and that can only be good for the country.

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  109. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ goldnkiwi (1,052 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 3:27 pm

    It isn’t a crime goldnkiwi, I would have thought you would know that, being a lawyer. At best it is supporting evidence to what Hager is claiming, something which none of us had confirmation about until last night.

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  110. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    “What do you think that I said before that was dishonest?”

    Your claim that the problem is the text itself, when in fact the problem is your interpretation.

    I didn’t say that “the problem is the text itself”.

    “Also, there remains this point which you have yet to address”

    I addressed it twice above, at 2:38 and at 2:52.

    Text for reference:

    Acts 9
    6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

    Acts 22
    10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

    Acts 26
    15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
    16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
    17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
    18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

    Your 2:38

    If I say I drove to the mall to buy beer, and later I say I drove to the mall to buy wine, it is not a contradiction if in fact I drove to the mall to buy BOTH beer and wine.

    Straw man, buying beer and wine are not mutually exclusive, but being told only to proceed to Damascus for instructions isn’t logically consistent with receiving instructions before Damascus.

    Your 2:52

    Paul was told by Christ that he would be a minister, and that the nature of this and his purpose would be more fully explained in Damascus.

    The problem with your interpretation is that it assumes that the witnesses did not hear Paul being told that he would be a minister.
    The problem is compounded by Paul repeating what the witnesses said (Acts 9 & 22), i.e Paul agrees with the witness with his first recounting.
    The problem is further compounded in Acts 26 when Paul omits what the witnesses said in Acts 9, contradicting the witnesses.

    If you wish to argue that the witnesses didn’t accurately relate what was said, then it is up to you to come up with a simpler explanation than mine (i.e. that Paul lied in Acts 26 in order to impress Agrippa) which is consistent with the facts.

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  111. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ goldnkiwi (1,053 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    Yes, the book does need to be read. I’m only up to page 52, but have to say I’m disgusted. Even if one only believes half of what they read in it they will be suitably unimpressed (although its hard to only believe a little when the evidence is solid).

    It makes interesting reading when one has been a poster on here – and can remember certain conversations and actions – many of which are related to information in the book. Maybe those that haven’t read Whaleoil and Kiwiblog may not be so convinced, who knows.

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  112. RightNow (7,014 comments) says:

    This shit with Shawn and Ugly is boring.

    Hey Griff, you wingnut denier. The sun has gone quiet and the world is in a global cooling phase.

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  113. flipper (4,328 comments) says:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3
    Griff (6,938 comments) says:

    August 14th, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    may the best man win on 20th September
    We dont elect a president in this country the prime minister is not in charge of direction of any thing he is a figure head for the party. Most decisions are made by the party executive not the prime minister hes job is to do as the executive tells him

    *****

    Wow… The world according to Griff, or whatever it is.

    He has talked bullshit on 99% of what he has said. This latest assertion is the outstanding 1 %.

    Go find an AGW/CC eco freak/Nazi link griffie to justify your latest idiotic assertion.

    You know absolutely nothing about Government, less about politics.
    Go away, dickhead.

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  114. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    This shit with Shawn and Ugly is boring.

    So what would you like to argue about?

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  115. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    Flippy from wiki
    The Prime Minister is regarded by convention as “first among equals”. He or she does indeed hold the most senior post in the administration, but is also required to adhere to any decisions taken by Cabinet. The actual ability of the New Zealand Prime Minister to give direct orders is largely limited; most of the position’s power comes about through other means, such as:

    The ability to set the Cabinet agenda, thereby controlling what issues will be discussed.
    The ability to appoint and dismiss ministers. The extent to which this power can be exercised varies between different parties; the Labour Party, for example, places most of this responsibility in the hands of the Caucus, leaving the Prime Minister only with the power to choose which portfolios a minister is given. Furthermore, the MMP electoral system has complicated this, as the Prime Minister may have to consult with another party leader.
    The influence a Prime Minister is likely to have as leader of the dominant party. These powers may give him or her more direct control over subordinates than is attached to the Prime Minister’s role itself.
    The power gained simply from being central to most significant decision-making, and from being able to comment on and criticise any decisions taken by other ministers.
    The prime minister can be removed by the party executive flippy try doing that with the president
    You really are an idiot flippy and dont seem to have a problem advertising the fact.

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  116. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “This shit with Shawn and Ugly is boring.”

    Then don’t read it. Nobody is forcing you to do so. That debate is over anyway.

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  117. mikenmild (12,340 comments) says:

    You’ve got that all a bit mixed up Griff. Conventionally the first among equals, in recent decades NZ has moved to a more presidential style model where the PM exercises an increasing amount of power. This is also borne out by election campaigns, which so heavily focus on the leaders.

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  118. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    You have that a little wrong milky
    The msm has been pushing identity politics
    This doesn’t mean the prime minister has any more power then say piggy had.
    before Helen and key we had a succession of prime ministers who lasted less than a full term in fact five different pms in two terms

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  119. mikenmild (12,340 comments) says:

    I think there has been a steady accretion of power to the PM and around that office. Certainly the last two PMs have enjoyed unchallenged supremacy over their colleagues. We are a long way past the days when a political party would claim they were “Man for man the better team” – these days it is all about the leader.

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  120. flipper (4,328 comments) says:

    Griffie ….,.,

    direct control over subordinates than is attached to the Prime Minister’s role itself.
    The power gained simply from being central to most significant decision-making, and from being able to comment on and criticise any decisions taken by other ministers.
    The prime minister can be removed by the party executive flippy try doing that with the president
    You really are an idiot flippy and dont seem to have a problem advertising the fact.

    *******
    Go away griffie.

    You are too silly for words.

    Please quote the National Party constitution rule that says it over-rules the Electoral Act, and gives it power to over-ride a Caucus decision on leadership ( For example the Leader/PM when the party has the majority, dumbass). The NP constitution is available on the website. That is more reliable than your default – wiki wot nots.

    You, griffie, are simply a piece of left wing excrement that does not warrant a more detailed response.

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  121. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    As I said MSM personality politics
    If labor was to win this time or next would you expect the same style to continue?
    When Key resigns which I fully expect to happen before the end of his coming term would you expect his successor to continue as key has?
    Personality politics is ok for common consumption but its not how the nz government actually runs.
    http://www.cabinetmanual.cabinetoffice.govt.nz/node/84#2.2
    Role
    2.3 The Prime Minister is the head of the government. The functions and powers of the Prime Minister have evolved over time. There is no statutory provision that constitutes the office of Prime Minister or defines its role.

    2.4 The Prime Minister has several key constitutional roles. The Prime Minister is the principal adviser to the Sovereign and to the Sovereign’s representative, the Governor-General, as long as the government commands the confidence of the House, and the Prime Minister maintains support as the leader of that government.

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  122. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    Flippy my dear retarded little idiot
    I am not a lefty
    Just because I support the findings of science doesn’t mean I vote for a left wing party.

    I was a member of act from very early on and only resigned when banks had influence.

    Try hoping over to the national government site and reading national on AGW or even consider DPF’s position on climate change halfwit

    Science and reality dont take any head of politics flip flop and in matters of science neither do I.

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  123. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    Are cam slater and larry williams a fucking item,Larry was like a girl friend defending HIS BUTT FUCKER best friend on newtalkZB tonight. slater and williams a butt item

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  124. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    Flipping idiot
    The national party can suspend your membership in committee
    if they done so for the prime minister he would no longer be a member for the party in majority.
    hence in theory they can stop a person being prime minister at any time by a vote outside of parliament.
    The politics within the executive would have a great deal of influence on who gets nominated as prime minister as you well know
    If you pissed them of and ignored their wishes you will not be standing for parliament again let alone forming a government.
    Hence a prime minister has to have the backing of the party executive and they can legally remove him in extreme cases

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  125. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    Are cam slater and larry williams a fucking item,

    A whole lotta salad being tossed about.

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  126. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/gzcb0tsnj0lee1a/Faith%203%20%282%29.gif

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  127. flipper (4,328 comments) says:

    You, griffie, are simply a piece of left wing excrement that does not warrant a more detailed response

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  128. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    No news in the NZ press of from Stephie about what is happening in St Louis?

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/14/ferguson-police-arrest-reporters-as-unrest-continues-over-michael-brown-shooting
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-13/ferguson-reignites-police-shoot-2nd-man-obamas-response-insultingly-inadequate
    http://www.businessinsider.com/swat-ferguson-protest-2014-8

    The more and more I see incidents and images of American Police, the more obvious it is they are now living in a Police State. Where’s the line between security and liberty? Reporters being arrested and the American police armed like the military.

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  129. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ flipper (3,684 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 7:03 pm

    Have you read the book Flipper?

    If you have, how do you explain the conversations that have taken place on here by certain posters that are evidence of many of the things Hager is claiming?

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  130. Longknives (4,953 comments) says:

    Hager gives me the creeps. Wouldn’t surprise me if that little freak has bodies in his basement…

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  131. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    EAD, when Tyler Durden, Alex Jones , Paul Craig Roberts , Chris Bollyn , David Duke etc get arrested and carted off to an alleged FEMA concentration camp then I might believe your jumping to sweeping conclusions and rushing to judgement.

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  132. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (4,573 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 7:15 pm

    LOL I bet you hate your mailman to. It’s always the messengers fault.

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  133. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “You, griffie, are simply a piece of left wing excrement that does not warrant a more detailed response.”

    Flipper, you have been reading too many of Redbaiters posts, and clearly adopted his style.

    It’s very, very, boring.

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  134. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    Stephie, does one of them write for the Guardian?

    Journalists arrested,
    Police in armoured vehicles
    Police in military fatigues
    Police with military style weapons
    i.e. all the signs of a police state

    Obama has created this police state, if this was George Bush, you’d be crying foul.

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  135. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “LOL I bet you hate your mailman to. It’s always the messengers fault.”

    Judith the mailman does not write the mail. Hagar is the writer, so it’s not really true that he is just the messenger.

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  136. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    @ EAD

    “Police in armoured vehicles
    Police in military fatigues
    Police with military style weapons

    Obama has created this police state”

    As much as I dislike Obama, the above examples have nothing to do with him. They go back to the 1980’s and the war on drugs.

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  137. dad4justice (6,594 comments) says:

    Can anybody tell me if Whale Oil is still a sickness beneficiary? I would ask him myself, but I can’t seem to be able to log onto his blog.

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  138. Yoza (1,926 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (4,241 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 7:29 pm

    @ EAD

    “Police in armoured vehicles
    Police in military fatigues
    Police with military style weapons

    Obama has created this police state”

    As much as I dislike Obama, the above examples have nothing to do with him. They go back to the 1980′s and the war on drugs.

    More like the ‘War on Poverty’.

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  139. RightNow (7,014 comments) says:

    Shawn, I scan the first line of comments to see if it warrants reading further and I’m fine with that. It’s only a fraction of a second more than reading the commenter name. But you and ugly are like a Bain thread nested inside another thread. I declare you the winner. If haven’t read all the evidence but he’s a nutcase so that’s that. I know what it’s like, I used to think there was a point arguing with Griff but 97% so shut up. Got boring.

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  140. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (4,240 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 7:28 pm

    That may be right Shawn, but he is delivering the message.
    I acknowledge the means by which he came across the information is ethically questionable – but the fact still remains that the information he has given paints a very bad picture.

    For me, reading the book, and being a poster here, it is easy to see that Hager is not wrong. He may not be entirely right, and some links aren’t exact – but the fact remains that there have been some really filthy tactics used to destroy the careers, and lives of other people, not to mention promote National’s interests using dishonest practices along with government employees and ministers.

    You cannot just simply ignore that fact – and pretend it doesn’t exist. If you haven’t read the book, then read it – if you are honest you will admit that some of the conversations and actions in it have been obvious on this board. Posters names will be familiar to you, and you will realise that very little has been by chance. The PM is wrong – there is something in it, and he needs to address it, unless he has something to hide by not doing that.

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  141. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    Journalists arrested,
    Police in armoured vehicles
    Police in military fatigues
    Police with military style weapons
    i.e. all the signs of a police state

    The Miami model in all it’s glory.

    http://crimethinc.com/movies/miamimodel.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_model

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  142. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    RightNow

    You will be pleased to know my patience with Ugly’s pretzel “logic” and conspiracy theories has run out. I’m just going to ignore him from now on.

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  143. stephieboy (3,519 comments) says:

    Shawn LH actually SWAT team shoot outs go back to 1974 with the major stand off with the Symbonise Liberation Army . There not exclusive to the Obama administration and have been part and parcel of Police operations to way, way back,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWAT

    EAD you seriously deluded to think otherwise.!

    But thats conspiracy theory for you. !

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  144. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ dad4justice (7,827 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 7:34 pm

    I don’t know if he’s collecting a benefit, but he’s certainly sick.

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  145. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    @ Shawn – I agree. It’s been a slow escalation since the “war on drugs/poverty” and actually probably before that all the way back to Kent State University.

    What is noticeable is the degree in which it ramped up after 9/11 and then again has ramped up over since the 2008 economic crash to a point where it is so overt and in your face that you’d have to be asleep not to notice it.

    I was in New York recently and they had several armed police with semi-automatics guarding the pedestrian entrance to the Brookyn Bridge!

    The abnormal has now been normalised.

    Because it’s been so slow, so gradual, so progressive, so many people have been the proverbial “boiling frog in the pot”. Big problem is now the water is boiling

    http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2014/july/28/the-absurd,-bureaucratic-hell-that-is-the-american-police-state.aspx

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  146. dad4justice (6,594 comments) says:

    Yes Judith sick, but he looks healthier than Hagar who looks like he is dying of aids and is no doubts entitled to a benefit. Anyway how come Whale is still sucking a benefit when he can afford to jet set around the globe. Something doesn’t add up? Has John Key got many mates on the benefit?

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  147. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “That may be right Shawn, but he is delivering the message.”

    No, I think he is creating the message. His style reminds me of Michael Moore. It’s all innuendo, out of context quotes, opinion pretending to be fact, and the usual conspiracy thinking that amounts to 2+2=9.

    Our host does a good job of critiquing his style:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/07/the_hollowness_of_the_hollow_men.html

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  148. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    Stephie

    “Shawn LH actually SWAT team shoot outs go back to 1974 with the major stand off with the Symbonise Liberation Army . There not exclusive to the Obama administration and have been part and parcel of Police operations to way, way back,”

    Yup, fair enough, I agree with you on that.

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  149. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ dad4justice (7,828 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 7:46 pm

    I don’t know? If he is on a benefit he won’t be able to get it when he’s overseas, unless he has friends in high places!

    I doubt he is on a benefit – I’m sure he’s got a suga mommy financing his endeavours.

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  150. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    @ EAD

    “What is noticeable is the degree in which it ramped up after 9/11 ”

    Understandable to me.

    “I was in New York recently and they had several armed police with semi-automatics guarding the pedestrian entrance to the Brookyn Bridge!:

    For good reason I expect.

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  151. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (4,244 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 7:47 pm

    Shawn, in the book he mentions conversations and people that I remember being on here. That isn’t made up – that is fact.

    He references everything, so it can’t all be made up, and there is proof that other people have of some of the relationships he mentions. Too much to deny shawn.

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  152. dad4justice (6,594 comments) says:

    Your probably right Judith but I will be livid if that fat arse sod is sucking a benefit from the hard working kiwi taxpayers.

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  153. RightNow (7,014 comments) says:

    pretzel “logic”

    And that’s enough to get me off Kiwiblog and listening to an old favourite

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  154. EAD (1,450 comments) says:

    I think what they need is Ted Nugent back in USA politics

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  155. RightNow (7,014 comments) says:

    Ha, (clearly not quite off), I’d have preferred Put Up or Shut Up, or the whole Intensities in Ten Cities album.

    To be honest I’m switching to Jeff Beck Scatterbrain now

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  156. stigie (1,439 comments) says:

    “Can anybody tell me if Whale Oil is still a sickness beneficiary? I would ask him myself, but I can’t seem to be able to log onto his blog”.

    Thought you was banned from Whale D4J ?

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  157. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    dad4justice (7,829 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 7:53 pm

    Oh, he’s been taking from the taxpayer alright, but I doubt its in the form of a benefit. Using and wasting government employees time for his own means, comes at a cost to us. I wonder what sort of hourly rate a senior staffer like Jason Ede would be on?

    Slater’s a special kind of jerk – this paragraph leaves no doubt to the kind of ‘man’ Slater is. p 12 Dirty Politics

    A young west coast man named Judd Hall had died when the car in which he was a passenger crashed off the road. Slater copied a newspaper article onto his blog and casually headed it “Feral dies in Greymouth, did the world a favour’. He was a friendly faced young man, training for an IT diploma, and, tragically the fourth son in the family to die in an accident. (One had been killed by a drunken driver, another had died in a fall and the third had been a victim of the 2010 Pike River mining disaster).

    You gotta love the people on here that defend a man like Slater.

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  158. dad4justice (6,594 comments) says:

    Sorry to disappoint you stigfly but I am not banned. It’s news to me if I am.

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  159. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    You’d be in good company still if you had been banned Dad…..there’s a lot of familiar pseudonyms missing from the rollcall at W/O lately.

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  160. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    Just to be clear, while I would not trust anything written by Hagar, I’m not defending Slater as such, I don’t like his style. It’s too nasty.

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  161. dad4justice (6,594 comments) says:

    Shawn I think I saw Whale Oil say on TV he was a “Christian”. Am I wrong in thinking he is a “nasty” Christian.?

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  162. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ShawnLH (4,246 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 8:11 pm

    I suspect the truth lies in the middle ground Shawn, but whatever it is, there is a significant amount of dirty politics occurring in this country and its got to stop – we have to have an open and transparent government that we can trust – and we haven’t had that for decades, and the corruption is getting worse (and from them all).

    I know you don’t like Hager, but read the book – even if its just to prove me wrong! :-)

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  163. nasska (12,095 comments) says:

    A defendant was on trial for murder. There was strong evidence indicating guilt, but there was no corpse.

    In the defense’s closing statement, the lawyer, knowing that his client would probably be convicted, resorted to a trick.

    “Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I have a surprise for you all,” the lawyer said as he looked at his watch. “Within one minute, the person presumed dead in this case will walk into this courtroom”. He looked toward the courtroom door. The jurors, somewhat stunned, all looked on eagerly.

    A minute passed. Nothing happened.

    Finally, the lawyer said “Actually, I made up the previous statement. But you all looked on with anticipation. I, therefore, put it to you that you have a reasonable doubt in this case as to whether anyone was killed, and I insist that you return a verdict of not guilty”.

    The jury retired to deliberate. A few minutes later, the jury returned and pronounced a verdict of guilty.

    “But how?” inquired the lawyer. “You must have had some doubt. I saw all of you stare at the door”.

    The jury foreman replied “Yes, we did look… but your client didn’t”.

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  164. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    “Can anybody tell me if Whale Oil is still a sickness beneficiary? I would ask him myself, but I can’t seem to be able to log onto his blog.”

    Want me to ask him for you D4J?

    If he is perhaps you could give him some gambling tips so he can earn $20,000 a week betting on the rugby like you do.

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  165. dad4justice (6,594 comments) says:

    My deranged stalker has arrived I am outta here. I will go visit Whale.

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  166. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    I didn’t think you could log onto Whale D4J.

    Are you banned from there as well?

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  167. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    Judith
    Hagar is fool who is being used. What’s more interesting is what is omitted and the story about Judd Hall is a good example. There’s more to it than Hagar says- oh why am I wasting my time. You’ll just believe what your bias dictates.
    Silly woman.

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  168. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    oh dear,

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/10385310/Earthquake-victims-scum-says-blogger

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  169. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    And I suppose you don’t have any biases red?

    The fact is I have my own proof that Hager is at least partially right. Good honest proof. Not hacked, straight from
    A minister thanks to the OIA, so you see its a little hard for me to accept that Hager is wrong. So you believe whatever your biases allow you to believe silly man -

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  170. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Oh dean papa, there will be more to it. Just ask red. Slater probably has a good reason for slagging off Christchurch victims , just like he did for the above example. Apparently according to all on red such statements are acceptable if slater says them – and red would know because he’s not biased

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  171. dad4justice (6,594 comments) says:

    I have emailed Whale Oil and posted it on my blog. I cannot believe that two faced lying John Key and that mad bitch Crusher would have anything to do with this clearly insane blogger. Is he bigot blouses twin shadow. I am disgusted that this fat arse lard has put the knife into a region that has suffered such a horrible natural disaster. National will lose many votes here I can assure you . Thanks for nothing Whale you fat loser! You can expect legal action directed at you blubber guts.

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  172. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    Don’t be silly Judith. I’m not tribal. You’re the one full of hate and anger who is obsessed with posting anti JK ( and Judith Collins) stuff on here. It’s burning you up. You need help really.
    Night.

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  173. Nookin (3,558 comments) says:

    From dad’s blog

    “… you fat arse lazy parasite..”

    Interesting comment about a guy who, single-handed, has established the most popular (by visits) and most talked about blog in the country. He banned you didn’t he dad?

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  174. dad4justice (6,594 comments) says:

    Nookin maybe you can help with his soon to be legal problems. Canterbury earthquake victims want blood. His blogging days will be history once we have finished with the lard arse. You cannot defend the indefensible can you matey!

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  175. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “I cannot believe that two faced lying John Key and that mad bitch Crusher”

    What a sad, hateful little man you are D4J.

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  176. dad4justice (6,594 comments) says:

    Oh shut up Shawny Curls what do you think of blubber guts appalling comments about Canterbury folk? Better still I am in the phone book Peter Burns Papanui come visit and don’t try kill my pet crocodile with your big hunting knife lol.

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  177. big bruv (14,217 comments) says:

    D4J

    Are you really wanting to pick a war with Slater?

    You do realise he will expose you as a complete and utter liar, and nut job, don’t you?

    I can just imagine him slicing you to pieces bit by bit, he may well start with your $100,000 donation to your ‘church’, or he might decide to pick on your claim of funding your current lifestyle by way of $20,000 sporting bets. Or, he might just decide to dig into your claim that the All Black captain is a close and personal friend of yours.

    Either way D4J I would think long and hard about picking a fight with a chap who shows no mercy.

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  178. dad4justice (6,594 comments) says:

    bigot blouse – Whale Oil’s unhinged comments about a region of New Zealand still struggling with the affects of a mayor natural disaster indicate a callous individual who needs to be taught a lesson in respect, dignity and manners. Today the GG honoured those brave individuals that helped save lives in the terrible tragedy. I am outraged that his vindictive comments are exposed for all to see. I don’t they will be voting National after reading his bizarre comments in tomorrow mornings Press. He has done a lot of damage to National through his insane comments. I hope he has plenty of money. He will be sued. I expect your types to be supportive of such a despicable character as filth hangs with filth. How do you think people that lost loved ones in the quake will take to being called “scum” and “useless pricks” You just lost my vote National!

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  179. Yoza (1,926 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (1,436 comments) says:
    August 14th, 2014 at 9:16 pm

    Don’t be silly Judith. I’m not tribal. You’re the one full of hate and anger who is obsessed with posting anti JK ( and Judith Collins) stuff on here. It’s burning you up. You need help really.
    Night.

    Says All_on_Red in a shrill, almost hysterical, tone.

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  180. ShawnLH (6,611 comments) says:

    “Oh shut up Shawny Curls what do you think of blubber guts appalling comments about Canterbury folk? ”

    Appalling. Just as appalling as you calling Judith Collins a bitch.

    Since when did two wrongs make a right?

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  181. Rowan (2,604 comments) says:

    D4J
    Agreed, Whale is just a big mouthed bigot, and a complete and utter scumbag, maybe he is Bigot blouses identical twin?

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  182. kowtow (8,936 comments) says:

    Slater is an appalling anti Catholic bigot.I have no time for him at all.

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  183. RightNow (7,014 comments) says:

    Slater slags off people as a bunch of Labour voters and D4J says they won’t vote National now.
    Is that the gist of it?

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  184. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    Yoza
    You’re such a whining little dick. There’s nothing shrill or hysterical about me. Getting under your skin is it. Imagining how people talk now.You come here every day and get made to look foolish.
    So funny.

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  185. Gulag1917 (1,083 comments) says:

    The secret report that helps Israel hide facts
    The slickness of Israel’s spokesmen is rooted in directions set down by the pollster Frank Luntz
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israelgaza-conflict-the-secret-report-that-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html

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  186. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Either way D4J I would think long and hard about picking a fight with a chap who shows no mercy.

    Scared of WheelOil?

    FFS, man, get a grip.

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  187. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    Blub blub AKA all in red
    You are such a pathetic little wing nut .
    I really love it when you do the sycophantic suck up to any one with wing nut ideas like yours.
    As to group think.
    Pity your group cant think .
    Projection is a facet of wingnut behavior blubby boy you often show this with your attacks on others illustrating more your own metal problems.

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  188. All_on_Red (1,742 comments) says:

    You’re such a dumb c**t Griff. You can’t even spell or string a sentence together. The Kiwiblog village idiot and an object of scorn, derision and amusement. Everyone just laughs at you. No wonder no one will have a live in relationship with you. Got any kids? I doubt it. You’re too full of anger and frustration.
    Carry on.

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  189. minus (229 comments) says:

    Hager the Horrible

    I do not understand how someone in possession of stolen personal property – emails, in this case – can publish them for their own interests and financial gain.

    Neither do I understand why those to whom the stolen property belongs, do not declare that to a court and have the publication stopped and withdrawn.

    Also, if an untrue allegation is made in a private email between two people, does a third party accepting full responsibility for publicising such information that the original two have not intended.
    What is Hager’s legal position in publishing material that the originators intended to go no further than a private
    communication between themselves?

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