General Debate 16 August 2014

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Other_Andy

The ‘faceless’ men at the New Zealand Hamas have decided to defend Hager and give him some much needed publicity in the latest editorial and a hit piece on Cactus Kate.
The editorial is, as usual, one-eyed, one sided and leaves out the context and a lot of relevant information.
1. Nothing about the motives of Hager who is a partisan radical left-wing activist.
2. Hager is given a free pass, doing the same thing (and worse) of what he accuses others.
3. No mention of The Standard, a blog on par with Whaleoil and run by Labour activists.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11308998

The New Zealand Hamas.
With Hagar and NZ Labour at the forefront of dirty politics.

Partisan hacks…..
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August 16, 2014 8:02am
Longknives

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10389919/Te-Kuitis-human-zoo

“Te Kuiti man Moki Hepi had been in there “a few times” and didn’t like it.”
“I thought it sucked cos everyone can see me.”

There is a simple solution to that problem nutsack!
Oh- That’s right …this is ‘Aotearoa’ -His criminal offending is someone else’s fault…
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August 16, 2014 8:03am
minus

Well, Oi’ll Beef Hooked !

We now know who one of the two remaining secret donors are [Mąi Chen] And we also know why David Cunliffe could never have admitted to it in public.
– http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/07/donated-david-cunliffes-secret-trust/

And not that long ago, there were hints of a Cunliffe indiscretion similar to Pants Down Len Brown, which would surely have figured in private email communications intercepted and stolen by Hager the Horrible’s memory stick man.

But where are those comments, speculation or not?

So how much, then, is Hager’s book about all dirty parties, or are we to believe there is only one Nrew Zealand political party headed to Hell?
Should “DIRTY POLITICS” not be more accurately titled “SELECTED DIRTY POLITICS – A Biased Presentation of Stolen Emails.”

Or, to express it another way –

• Katie Bradford @katieabradford
David Cunliffe says all NZers will be shocked by the contents of Dirty Politics. He’s read the first 2 chapters & felt dirty afterwards.
• whaleoil @katieabradford I wonder why Nicky Hager failed to print the emails about the political leader and his lawyer girlfriend?
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August 16, 2014 8:04am
Souvlaki

A good column from Paul Thomas in the “Harold” this am
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August 16, 2014 8:04am
Longknives

Katie Bradford is a joke. Her employment by TVNZ to masquerade as a ‘journalist’ is a low point in NZ media history…
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August 16, 2014 8:06am
Other_Andy

Irony alert! : Wind turbine causes oil spill at sea.

Danish ‘Safety Ship’ OMS Pollux, leaking oil after colliding with Morecambe Bay wind turbine
Liverpool Coastguard has been in attendance since just after 9am this morning co-ordinating the recovery of the stricken vessel which collided with part of a turbine at Walney Wind Farm.

http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/11410963.Ship_leaking_oil_after_colliding_with_Morecambe_Bay_wind_turbine/?ref=rss

In the comments (Among other disparaging comments about windmills) a commenter writes;

Love CO2 says…

The time has come
The greenie said
To ban all ships
And swim instead
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August 16, 2014 8:07am
Jack5

Shame! Shame! Shame!

Did you see on TV last night the piece about the Christchurch Art Gallery. The city is spending $50 million on reinforcing it and repairing earthquake damage. In the meantime the gallery has also been buying more art.

This while families are sleeping in garages and sheds in the bitter Canterbury winter, while the city’s ratepayers face steep rate rises, and while the city prepares to sell off stakes in the assets which bring in income.

The place has gone mad. No doubt there will be bullshit about how the work has to be done to use insurance, or some such. What insurance company wouldn’t settle for some favourable cash payout?

This is a bit of a slight to the taxpayers of NZ who are also putting hands deep into pockets, to help post-quake Christchurch.

The Christchurch Art Gallery was pretentious and overly expensive for a city of its size. It would have been justified perhaps in Auckland, though more suited to Melbourne. After the city splashed out on it, too little was left for the art that went in the building. If you wanted to see interesting art, you went to Dunedin, which in far more humble buildings, brought excellent exhibitions to its citizens.

We plebs also wondered how much it cost to heat the glass-walled atrium for the white-wine soirees of the gallery’s supporters.

C’mon Mayor Dalziel, get a grip on the city!
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August 16, 2014 8:14am
hj

What Judith Collins friend said about Christchurch: what a louse. On the other hand what if the character and agenda of a few on the left were exposed.
For example in the UK we were told by a speech writer that the New Labour had talked in terms of rubbing the right’s nose in diversity. I don’t think the talk and attitudes here would be much different.
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August 16, 2014 8:16am
Left Right and Centre

Random thought – what did election roadside hoardings look like way back when ? (Apart from being bloody rectangular smartarse – or were they ? Could’ve been circles for all I know).

Did they get defaced as much ?
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August 16, 2014 8:17am
duggledog

Mai Chen eh? Who would have thought!

Me.

She has even more to gain with a new administration.
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August 16, 2014 8:19am
hj

Mai Chen on behalf of who? That’s why you can’t trust labour’s open border progressives.
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August 16, 2014 8:24am
Southern Raider

John Armstrong what a partisan cock you are.

You spend your whole opinion piece slam the “vindictive” nature of national party members and supports against Nicky Hager.

How about that vindictive behaviour is an adequate response to this little dweeb making up crap and the MSM lapping it up
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August 16, 2014 8:28am
grumpy

Well, well,…Mai Chen, secret donor and more with Cunliffe. After Pagani spilling the beans about 4 paid Labour attack bloggers in Cunliffe’s office, this is not going to end well. Note how Hager aided by MSM have tried to suppress this.
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August 16, 2014 8:30am
wat dabney

Headline of the day:

“Houston woman named Teddy Bear Paradise pleads guilty to threatening to kill Obama”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/15/houston-woman-named-teddy-bear-paradise-pleads-guilty-to-threatening-to-kill-obama/

You kind of wish she’d succeeded as well, if only for the historical ignominy.

“Dad, who killed President Lincoln?”

“John Wilkes Booth.”

“And who killed President Obama?”

“That would be Teddy Bear Paradise, son.“
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August 16, 2014 8:31am
Pete George

Lynn Prentice was interviewed about The Standard on Radio NZ yesterday where he denied something then retracted on air. He also made a number of claims about supposed non-links between The Standard and Labour which are bollocks.

Analysing the interview: Lynn Prentice on radio on The Standard

Standard authors listed and identified: Is The Standard “a mouthpiece for Labour”?

Most authors have proven or probable strong links to Labour. It’s bizarre they keep trying to deny it.
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August 16, 2014 8:33am
Other_Andy

Southern Raider says:

“John Armstrong what a partisan cock you are.”

Newspaper subscriptions down.
Blog and online media traffic up.

He knows what side his bread is buttered.
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August 16, 2014 8:34am
Southern Raider

Grumpy it will never come out as the MSM don’t have the guts

A good Tui board “NZ doesn’t need Whaileoil as you can rely on the MSM to keep the left honest”
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August 16, 2014 8:35am
SGA

Longknives at 8:03 am

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10389919/Te-Kuitis-human-zoo
“Te Kuiti man Moki Hepi had been in there “a few times” and didn’t like it.”
“I thought it sucked cos everyone can see me.”

There is a simple solution to that problem

I had a similar thought when I read that article in Stuff.
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August 16, 2014 8:38am
mister nui

I’m going to be offshore (literally) from next weekend through the election. I have looked online, but it seems that the earliest I can do an early vote is from 3rd September. How can I vote prior to this, does anyone know?

Highly unlikely to have voting papers offshore West Africa…
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August 16, 2014 8:38am
Southern Raider

Would be interesting to know what tax payer funded leftist academics at Auckland University are behind driving “Students for Justice in Palestine”. I somehow doubt they just spontaneously decided to go an target the Super Fund offices.
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August 16, 2014 8:39am
flipper

Did anyone notice the extensive coverage by the MSM on two matters that became public yesterday:

1. The “tragic” poll results for labour and CminusT published by Fairfax (exception to part of above observation), and

2. The detailed disclose by DPF of the thefts from either his office or home????

And now we are supposed to take note of, and heed, the unmitigated crap written by faceless laptop tapper at the Herald and at Compost.

En passant, I never bother with Red radio, and only listen to Smith and Williams on ZB, Radio is shit, made all the worse by the likes of Smalley. Silly dumb bint.
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August 16, 2014 8:40am
publicwatchdog

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
When is Prime Minister John Key going to hold his Minister for Justice Judith Collins accountable to the ‘highest ethical standards’ that are required in the Cabinet Manual, now that she has admitted to providing the name of a public servant to Cameron Slater, which resulted in his being attacked on the Whaleoil blog?

Penny Bright
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August 16, 2014 8:42am
Southern Raider

Mister Nui if you have a job I hardly think the lefty PSA members at the elections department would want to make it easy for you
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August 16, 2014 8:42am
stephieboy

wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:
August 16th, 2014 at 8:31 a

Tells us something about you and some elements on the far right = nasty and vindictive.!

Given that its rather surprising that someone in the US of the above kind haven’t as yet tried out another Dealy Plaza on the President.!
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August 16, 2014 8:44am
Southern Raider

Penny when are you going to be held accountable for not paying your rates?
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August 16, 2014 8:44am
FeralScrote

Warning…Saccharine overdose imminent.
What an absolutely pathetic effort from the Horrids “senior” reporter this morning.
He`s not the messiah..he`s just a very under 10%er “man who would be PM”.
How fucking deluded are the left and their enablers?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2014/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503581&objectid=11309592
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August 16, 2014 8:45am
iMP

Re Conservatives’ Christine Rankin in the Epsom race, all Jamie Whyte of ACT can say today is…

“”It might be even better if David [Seymour] didn’t get in and we could start afresh.”

ACT Cam. Manager Richard Prebble is right, “Jamie Whyte is no politician.” What a plonker.
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August 16, 2014 8:45am
hmmokrightitis

DPF, a question, hopefully you get to see this. I note yet again this morning that labour are saying they will conduct another review if they win, this time health sector. Ive seen many of these quotes from them over the last few weeks, reviews everywhere.

Any chance you could take a look at how many reviews labour are going to run post election should they get in? Is this normal, or a result of the policy vacuum they have created through there own stupidity?
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August 16, 2014 8:46am
mikenmild

Hold high hopes for Christine, do you, iMP? Think she’ll get more than the 342 votes the Conservative candidate got last time?
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August 16, 2014 8:46am
publicwatchdog

When, and by whom is Auckland Council going to be held accountable for non-compliance with the Public Records Act 2005?

Penny Bright
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August 16, 2014 8:47am
SGA

mister nui at 8:38 am

Highly unlikely to have voting papers offshore West Africa…

Not a part of the world I’d be flocking to at the moment – stay well.
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August 16, 2014 8:47am
hj

The end of neighbours

How our increasingly closed-off lives are poisoning our politics and endangering our health

humans need face-to-face contact, as they need air and water. We have evolved for it, to the extent that those surrounded by a tight-knit group of friends who regularly gather to eat—and, crucially, gossip—live an average of 15 years longer than loners. Quality face-to-face contact is essential for a social species, Pinker writes, citing research that shows it fortifies immune systems, calibrates hormones and increases chances of surviving heart attacks, strokes, AIDS and cancer. “People with the most integrated social lives—overlapping relationships among friends, family, sports and other recreational or religious pursuits—have the best prognoses,”

http://www.macleans.ca/society/the-end-of-neighbours

let Them Eat Diversity
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2011/01/let-them-eat-diversity/
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August 16, 2014 8:49am
Southern Raider

Obama shows his true colours by mandating smaller volume of weapons that US companies can supply Israel.

Setting them up for part of the Islamic Caliphate?
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August 16, 2014 8:49am
Other_Andy

What I like to know is how the obviously untrustworthy, partisan ‘public servant’ Simon Pleasants (Not only did He leaked confidential information but he leaked it to Labour instead of the press) is still ‘working’ at the department?
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August 16, 2014 8:51am
All_on_Red

Penny
Gosh , why don’t you get Graham to prosecute JK over it? Maybe send the Judge a copy of a movie as evidence or something.
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August 16, 2014 8:51am
Southern Raider

So Phil Goff visits a police station to enquire about the welfare of a murderer accused and it is okay with the MSM and police association

Williamson does the same thing and is crucified
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August 16, 2014 8:56am
hj

What is a House?

These surveys are part of Demographia’s political agenda to support land use policies that favor lower-density urban fringe development. Their main conclusion is that smart growth policies that encourage compact development are the main constraint on housing affordability. There are good reasons to question both the surveys’ methodologies and conclusions.

The surveys rate housing affordability by calculating the Median Multiple, the ratio of median house sales prices and median household incomes for metropolitan regions (cities and their suburbs). The results depend significantly on the definition of “house.”

In many cities, a major portion of owner-occupied homes are multi-family: duplexes, townhouses and apartments (condominiums). Does the analysis give these weight relative to their market share, or are the house price data biased toward single-family houses? This is a critical question, particularly in large, growing cities with geographic constraints (either physical or political) where land unit costs (dollars per acre) are high, making land-intensive housing types (i.e., single-family) less affordable relative to land-efficient housing (i.e., multi-family).

The survey does not really specify. It simply explains that, “Median house price information is obtained from the leading national reporting agencies and includes the housing stock as reported upon.” It then lists various government agencies and real estate professional organizations which supplied data. The report uses a banner (below) of seven houses, six of which are single-family, four of which have driveways and garages, suggesting that authors Wendell Cox and Hugh Pavletich assume that “house” refers primarily to larger-lot, single-family homes.

These surveys are not peer reviewed (few of Cox’s publications are), nor are the data posted anywhere for other researchers to examine. Such reviews and data transparency are common practice among serious researchers, and are the basis for reliable and objective scientific analysis. During the last month I twice emailed the report’s authors asking them to clarify these details and provide examples of their data. They have not responded.

http://www.planetizen.com/node/70829

The Government seems to swallow it whole?
The Government is increasing the population to achieve “agglomeration benefits”.
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August 16, 2014 8:57am
hmmokrightitis

Dear crazy woman,

Auckland Council would, but they need your rates bill paid so they can.

Dilemma, much?
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August 16, 2014 8:58am
mister nui

Good point Southern Raider – especially a business that brings foreign dosh into NZ and pays a significant amount of tax to keep those said PSA workers at the trough…
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August 16, 2014 8:59am
iMP

mister nui re VOTING FROM W. AFRICA. Everything is here.

http://www.elections.org.nz/events/2014-general-election/voting-2014-all-you-need-know/voting-overseas-2014-general-election

You can download your voting papers online and post them.
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August 16, 2014 8:59am
iMP

Milkenmaid. Consv.s are now at 3.4%, level with NZF after weeks of you and your ilk claiming they will never raise above 1%. Just watch the graph. I think JKey has been premature in his decisions. Today ACT leader Jamie Whyte is under-minding David Seymour…so, like the upsurge in Consv. poll interest, I expect voters will switch to the only option for a Center-Right govt as ACT languishes at 0.00% in the polls.

Do the math.

Nat 45%-47%
ACT 1%
Conserv.s 5%+
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August 16, 2014 9:03am
oldpark

Seems after reading all the support for stolen emails by MSM( completely controlled by the journalist cloth cap union actitivists) and then the peddling of them by sicko green Hagar ,Russel Norman look a like.What an indictment to see that the NZ MSM completely condones the theft of personal email correspondence.They are just as guilty ,even worse, than Hagar the sicko greenie ,who has been used by allegedly Senior Green/Labour Party officials.Of course our union infested MSM would rather run with lies rather than truth,as long as they can cause the demise, and downfall of John Key, our man for all seasons and reasons and the National Government.
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August 16, 2014 9:09am
Left Right and Centre

My nomination for bullpucky product of the day . . .

http://www.go-travelproducts.com/bodycare/flight-support-s

A snip at just NZ$49.99 per pair – as seen at AA Porirua.

. . . the guys out there should not be put off wearing them on long-haul flights

Feels so good against my skin. Why do you need a reason to wear them ?

Aha – they stop your legs popping on long hauls. Really ? Expensive dodgy crap for an exclusive niche market of suckers who are smart enough to have a spare $50 and yet dumb enough to buy ridiculous shit marketed with highly questionable claims. What a wonderful world of consumerism.
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August 16, 2014 9:13am
hj

“Wendell Cox and Hugh Pavletich, please respond to this column: provide specific information on how you define and measure house prices, and make your data available for independent review. This will allow planning professionals and policy makers to have confidence in your analysis. Such clarity, transparency and independent peer review are the hallmarks of good research.
”
http://www.planetizen.com/node/70829
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August 16, 2014 9:13am
mister nui

Thanks iMP, I saw that too, but I’m not sure it will work either, as I will be on an oil rig offshore Cameroon.

My options would be to have my papers posted to the rig supply base – christ, can you imagine our public servants having to deal with that complexity – especially considering they have to get them to me between the 3rd and 20th Sept. and give me enough time to return them.

I then have to use technology that I didn’t even know existed anymore, a fax!!! And fax them back to some wallah at the electoral office who must be standing by a fax machine collecting the screeds of votes as they come off… One can only imagine what happens to votes that don’t align with said wallah’s views.

I don’t think we have a fax offshore, but I can check.

Or I can then turn around and try to post them to South Africa, after having received them god knows when.

What a fuck-up in this electronic age….

I’m against online voting, but surely to Christ they can make it easier than this palaver.
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August 16, 2014 9:14am
mikenmild

I think the Conservatives will beat their 2% showing last time, but won’t beat the threshold and won’t come within a bull’s roar of winning an electorate seat.
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August 16, 2014 9:14am
Left Right and Centre

This blog is so exciting I can’t take it much longer. Sometimes it’s about the news – and sometimes it is the farking news. Yee-screaming-haa people. I followed our dear and gracious leader intently around the Hager shitstorm – such fun !!

(Hmmm – Hager was born in Levin. Would never have guessed from looking at him)
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August 16, 2014 9:15am
flipper

As a follow-up to his breathless, nay hysterical, description of Hager’s fiction based on stolen private property, this morning , among other wimpish claims (such as comparing J Key’s / S Joyce’s response to R D Muldoon), the geriatric Armstrong has this gem (among many):

” …. Hager has the emails. It is of major significance that Key has not questioned their authenticity. To do so would risk Hager releasing them and proving Key wrong. It would keep the story alive when Key and Joyce are saying and doing the minimum in the hope of denying it oxygen. ….”

Well Hager claims he has the emails. And if he does have them, he knows they have been stolen.

So Armstrong glorifies the apparent use of stolen property, and ignores the Crimes Act. And Armstrong ignores J Key’s invitation for Hager to , more or less, “publish and be damned”. Of course Armstrong cannot see that such action would deepen the hole into which Hager has fallen.

Now in his 80s, Ian Templeton continues to write perceptively and with insight built on experience – real experience. And were he of a mind, Peter Scherer would do the same. Armstrong is a fool, but the folks who read his rubbish are seldom fooled for very long…..

Oh dear. Time that Armstrong went to the knackers yard – for his own piece of mind.
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August 16, 2014 9:17am
iMP

mister nui. I think you can print the papers off before you leave, as long as its after Nomination day (26/8), sign them, and have a friend post them for you here in NZ after you’ve left for Cameroon.
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August 16, 2014 9:18am
Pete George

Another Hager controversy falls over.

Patrick Gower @patrickgowernz
Nicky Hager says Judith Collins did not get a prisoner moved. Book readers have got it wrong., Hager says it was a prison officer
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August 16, 2014 9:21am
Judith

@ Longknives (4,576 comments) says:
August 16th, 2014 at 8:03 am

I was just reading about Te Kuiti. I’ve been in court there several times, and know what the back rooms of that Court House look like. Although the cage was not there then, there is internal space, although being an old building it is a bit stuffy. I suspect the cage was added to allow them to get a bit of fresh air and improve their comfort – they actually have an alternative to being in it – and have inside accommodation – the story is an exaggeration.
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August 16, 2014 9:22am
mikenmild

flipper
You and others keep mentioning the Crimes Act. You might have missed this, from an actual lawyer:
http://publicaddress.net/speaker/confidential-information-the-legal-rights/
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August 16, 2014 9:22am
Judith

@ Pete George (23,060 comments) says:
August 16th, 2014 at 9:21 am

That is true, Hager does not say in the book that it was Collins, I’m not sure how anyone could draw that conclusion, its pretty obvious it is a Corrections Department employee that he is speaking to, or someone close to an employee. If Collins had requested the prisoner be moved, there would be too many eyebrows raised – this was someone who could do so, without it being regarded as unusual.
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August 16, 2014 9:25am
iMP

Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear. Dr Jamie Academic Whyte [Richard Prebble’s “wouldn’t make a very good politician”] doesn’t think on TV camera that winning Epsom will do any good…

“It might be even better if David [Seymour] didn’t get in and we could start afresh.”

‘and if I don’t get enough party votes to get in, would feel a strong urge to offer my resignation.’

So ACT’s “vision for NZ” is probably a 1% party vote. About what the public are giving them now, up 1 on their last three poll outings of 0.00%.
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August 16, 2014 9:26am
mikenmild

That’s the Conservatives’ aspiraiton for you; finish ahead of ACT.
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August 16, 2014 9:28am
Judith

@ flipper (3,693 comments) says:
August 16th, 2014 at 9:17 am

So Hager is wrong for having stolen material – that is clear, however I note you do not admonish Cameron Slater, and even DPF for also using stolen material for their campaign, and you clearly have no problem with them using material that was gained in inappropriate, although not illegal, ways.

You cannot take the higher ground and critque Hager, unless you are also going to lay the same claims on Slater. And I am not talking about the Labour Data Base, I’m talking about hacked material Slater received from his team of ‘hacker friends’.
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August 16, 2014 9:29am
iMP

No, breach 5% (that’s goin’ pretty well milky) and be here for the longer haul after the demise of UF, ACT and NZF, creating the only viable option on the C-R to keep the Nasties out.

Join the reality wagon friend.
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August 16, 2014 9:30am
iMP

UF 0.05%
ACT 1%
Conservatives 3.4% and rising.

Explain “wasted vote to me again”?
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August 16, 2014 9:32am
Other_Andy

mikenmild says at 9:22 am

“You and others keep mentioning the Crimes Act. You might have missed this, from an actual lawyer:
http://publicaddress.net/speaker/confidential-information-the-legal-rights/”

Appeal to authority fallacy…….
Never mind.
Put three lawyers in a room and in the end you will have 3 different, all very convincing but opposite opinions.
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August 16, 2014 9:33am
publicwatchdog

There is no need to do ‘dirty politics’.

I don’t.

‘Fight hard but fight clean’ is what I believe in.

In the past I have been offered ‘dirt’ on some politicians and been asked to help expose ‘dirt’ on some politicians – but I’ve simply refused to be involved and just said that I don’t do that stuff.

On Kiwiblog, as you know, I put my name to my posts and don’t hide behind anonymity.

It isn’t hard to do this and I suggest others try it?

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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August 16, 2014 9:34am
Southern Raider

Penny

Can’t be that hard for you to put your name on a cheque and address to Auckland City council then can it?
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August 16, 2014 9:40am
mikenmild

Yes Andy, a lawyer might be wrong. What specific points in the column did you disagree with?
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August 16, 2014 9:41am
mikenmild

iMP
You’ve mentioned 3.4% a couple of times. Would you care to explain why you rely on that poll rather than DPF’s average of public polls?
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August 16, 2014 9:43am
SGA

Judith at 9:22 am

I suspect the cage was added to allow them to get a bit of fresh air and improve their comfort

and a place to smoke?
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August 16, 2014 9:43am
All_on_Red

Judith
I’ve been in the Te Kuiti Court. Long time ago. Charged with ” estimated exceeding 160kmph”. Fortunately the JP agreed with my argument that an estimate means reasonable doubt and I got off. Lucky for me as I was going a lot faster and it’s a long walk home from there.
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August 16, 2014 9:48am
jcuk

Left Right and Centre (2,852 comments) says:

August 16th, 2014 at 9:13 am

Having flown with and without such stockings I know their value … my latest pair cost me $102 from my doctor while years back QANTAS gave me a pair when I flew on one of their planes [ across pacific ]. But if you do not have a problem with legs swelling I can understand your skeptism which I shared originally 🙂
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August 16, 2014 9:51am
mandk

iMP @9.03

Neither ACT nor UF stand a chance of getting more than one MP, but Cons could possibly have 5-6.

Mistake by Nats not nurturing a relationship with Cons?
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August 16, 2014 9:51am
Neil

Just watched Cameron Slater on The Nation with that talking fool Lisa Owen.
What a joke ! The format was against Slater right from the start – the gap caused by the speed of signal really favoured Owen.Owen then interviewed Hagar directly which favoured him.
Owen asked a question then cut across his answer. It was one of the worst interviews I have ever seen.
Isn’t it about time to realize that Hagar broke the law to get these emails. Hagar is guilty. I also believe that Cunliffe knew well before Hagar’s book was issued. Why did Cunliffe out of the blue talked about a clean campaign.
The whole thing comes out of McCarten’s office as a high risk effort to drag the election towards Labour.
The whole thing is a giant turn off for the avgerage voter.
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August 16, 2014 9:54am
johnwellingtonwells

Re Left Right and Centre (2,852 comments) says:

August 16th, 2014 at 9:13 am
My nomination for bullpucky product of the day . . .

http://www.go-travelproducts.com/bodycare/flight-support-s

I suffer from Odema and other forms of leg swelling, then these products are a must. I need to use them for any flight over two hours to avoid major problems
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August 16, 2014 9:56am
publicwatchdog

Never stuck your neck out and made on stand on a point of principle?

‘Faint heart never won fair go!’

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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August 16, 2014 9:56am
flipper

Judith,

What material used by Slater and DPF was “stolen” ???

Pray tell.

I hope…. No. I won’t go there, because you and I have more important fights that must be won – fights that are more important than Hager’s load of crap and … moonshine.

Let me just say that politics is politics. Roll in the dirt and expect to get dirty. But even mud wrestling has rules. And I ask again: When CS and DPF do that?
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August 16, 2014 9:56am
lolitasbrother

Am overseas and I am happy to see the polls.
think I read old yellow tooth Geoff Palmer is in trouble, and his girl friend.
As for Richard Prebble I tell another story soon, so much anger in our dear Country
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August 16, 2014 9:58am
Other_Andy

mikenmild says:

“Yes Andy, a lawyer might be wrong. What specific points in the column did you disagree with?”

And again you (deliberately?) miss the point.
It is an ( One of many different) opinion on this issue.
Neither right or wrong, just like the ones expressed by laymen on this blog.

The legal case isn’t clear cut (Apart from the fact that Hager is a hypocritical, dishonest partisan hack like his Labour party backers and his NZH mates) and there are a lot of ifs and buts involved.
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August 16, 2014 10:00am
OneTrack

Penny, why dont you go and see Len and get it sorted out? Or is that your new house that Len is building on the end of Queens Wharf. Hope you enjoy it. I worked hard for that rate money and wouldn’t like to see it wasted on a left-wing councillors wet dream.
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August 16, 2014 10:01am
waikatosinger

Hager’s efforts to make this about National seem contrived and weak. However this will probably hurt National because mud sticks and Hager has thrown a lot of it. I expect National will take a small hit in the next poll because if this, but I don;’t see anything likely to cause serious or lasting damage.

However what those emails mostly give is insight into how WhaleOil works. For the most part we see Cam behaving like a Journalist of the hard school muckraking type. Muckraking journalists are not very nice people but then they are not supposed to be. Nothing too much wrong with that.

However we also see that many of the stories in Whaleoil were bought and paid for. I hadn’t quite realised the extent of this. The line between story and advertisement has become very thin recently in the main stream media, but in WhaleOil it seems to be non-existent. That leaves us guessing when we read a story as to whether someone has paid for it.

Some of Slater’s hobby horses are now explained. We see why he takes such an interest in plain packaging laws for instance. But what about his other hobby horses? What about his frequent criticism of the Hawkes Bay council and their “dodgy dam”. Was that paid for by a dam opponent or is that Cam giving us his true editorial opinion.

Clearly anyone who reads WhaleOil and some of the other blogs of the “new media” needs to adopt a very critical frame of mind and be aware that someone may have paid for that point of view to be expressed. Makes me trust kiwiblog more actually. David Farrar has been doing this a long time and has another job.
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August 16, 2014 10:02am
mikenmild

‘Isn’t it about time to realize that Hagar broke the law to get these emails. Hagar is guilty.’
I’ve pointed several times that this is probably not the case. The test is likely to be whether there was a public interest in publishing the emails which overrode the right to privacy of those involved. It seems most unlikely that Hager could face any criminal charges.
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August 16, 2014 10:03am
jcuk

I think I would risk having a Lab/GIMP government for a short time until they broke up and we have a fresh election than to have the conservative nutters in government.
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August 16, 2014 10:04am
Judith

@ Neil (566 comments) says:
August 16th, 2014 at 9:54 am

I don’t think anyone is saying that Hager using material that was stolen is right.

But what about Slater’s use of material that was also hacked – by his ‘team of hacker pals’ – is he not also just as wrong?

None of that excuses the other stuff that Slater has done.

Take the breach of Labour’s data base. Surely if Cameron Slater was an upstanding member of society, and better than Labour, he would have simply informed them of the slack security and allowed them to fix it. He did not HAVE TO copy the names and the details of all the people on that list – he did not have to publish the fact or anything else. He choose to do that which lowers him to a great level – even lower than the people he criticizes.

It’s like walking into a room where a couple are having sex because the door was unlocked. Do you stand there an watch – or do you resort to Slater’s level and video tape the couple? Or do you simply tell them – lock the door guys – and walk out.

Sorry, but there is no excuse for Slater – although it was interesting to see that he could not refute any of what Hager says, and only object to the manner in which Hager got his material – which considering his own collection techniques, is some what hypocritical of him.
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August 16, 2014 10:05am
All_on_Red

Mikey
Why is there a public interest in being able to read Cameron Slaters emails and information stolen from a David Farrar?
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August 16, 2014 10:06am
mikenmild

‘We see why he takes such an interest in plain packaging laws for instance.’
One of DPF’s hobby horses too. Was he paid as well?
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August 16, 2014 10:07am
All_on_Red

Specious argument Judith. For your comparison to work the couple would be having sex in the public library.
And Slater did tell them and the only donor he has revealed is his friend Cathy Odgers- who doesn’t care.
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August 16, 2014 10:09am
mikenmild

AoR
From Nicole Moreham’s column:
‘The public interest is particularly strong where information relates to the behaviour of elected politicians. Dirty Politics is making some serious allegations about that behaviour and it’s arguable that the public should hear them.’
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August 16, 2014 10:10am
mandk

Any idea why the Herald is bleating about Nicky Hager’s addressed being released by bloggers?
All you have to do is look up White Pages.
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August 16, 2014 10:10am
Judith

@ flipper (3,694 comments) says:
August 16th, 2014 at 9:56 am

Slater boasts openly about his ‘hacker pals’ which obtained 28GB plus a filing cabinet full of documents for him, which he has used to run his dirty politics campaign.

That puts them both on the same level – both using stolen material to run their campaigns. Neither can take the higher ground so we are left with just the material itself – which I note that Slater is not really disputing.

Fact is flipper – this could all go away and be a win for National, gain them a great amount of support and completely devastate any opposition. All Collins has to do is allow access to her facebook comments on the dates mentioned and show that Hager is wrong. A very quick and simple fix to the whole argument.

Key won’t – why? Key owes the nation the truth – he is answerable to us – therefore he should be endeavoring to ensure that the truth is sought and made available to all of us – the fact he won’t do that demonstrates beyond any doubt that he does NOT want us to know.
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August 16, 2014 10:13am
lilman

Penny you nutbar,key will sack Collins the day after you stop stealing from Auckland rate payers and PAY YOUR RATES!!!!!!!!!
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August 16, 2014 10:15am
All_on_Red

Mikey
Which elected public officials were mentioned? Ede isn’t a public official. He’s hired by the Nats. Slater and Lusk aren’t either. John Key hasn’t been accused.There’s only Collins and Hagar has been proved wrong there.
So who else?
I see the argument but looks like the long bow being drawn will fall short. I think in the public interest he should be prosecuted and we’ll let a Court decide. Popcorn anyone?
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August 16, 2014 10:18am
All_on_Red

Judith
“Slater boasts openly about his ‘hacker pals’ which obtained 28GB plus a filing cabinet full of documents for him, which he has used to run his dirty politics campaign.”
Link please.
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August 16, 2014 10:19am
lilman

jUDITH,never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy.

Tell me you havent bred.
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August 16, 2014 10:20am
Other_Andy

mikenmild (11,087 comments) says:

“The test is likely to be whether there was a public interest in publishing the emails which overrode the right to privacy of those involved.”

That is the legal argument.
But by publishing stolen emails, Hager has lost the moral argument.

I could argue that I am legally allowed to know your identity mikenmild as you are a ‘public servant’, blogging during work hours but paid for by my taxes. “The public interest is particularly strong where information relates to the behaviour of paid civil servants and it’s arguable that the public should have full disclosure*.”

* Adapted from your link.

You want to argue the legal or the moral argument of this mikenmild?
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August 16, 2014 10:20am
oldpark

Question by any reporter worth their salt.Who is behind the illegal break in to David Farrah and Cameron Slaters personal email and other property belonging to both.Well who would think they could or would get a supposed political gain.There is a proposed five/six headed monster out their hoping to get some traction out of the theft.Main players Labour/Green actitivists,surely not.
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August 16, 2014 10:21am
Reid

Slater boasts openly about his ‘hacker pals’ which obtained 28GB plus a filing cabinet full of documents for him, which he has used to run his dirty politics campaign.

The material from Labour’s website was not hacked in any way. It didn’t need a password, google indexed it, therefore the legal definition of that material is ‘published.’

Therefore every single person and organisation who has claimed it was hacked has slandered Whale and is subject to the laws of libel. Isn’t that fun.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…
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August 16, 2014 10:23am
MH

News to hand:A book burning ceremony organised by Don Brash and various other Kiwibloggers has been cut short after Kim Dotecom suffered third degree burns after unsuccessfully attempting to retrieve a personally signed copy of Mime Kamping accidently thrown into the fire by Martyr Harre. To try and reach spontaneous combustion Hacker Hager was persuaded to donate several copies of his returned book Gerty Poll Texts in return for speaking rights on TV1 and 3. At the height of the fire the temperature was recorded at 450.999 Fahrenhate,probably due to the amount of whale Oil donated by the Asian Community.
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August 16, 2014 10:23am
mikenmild

I would argue in this case the legal argument closely follows the moral one: centering on the public’s right to know what is being done by public officials in their name.
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August 16, 2014 10:23am
All_on_Red

Yes Mikey,
As Oldpark says, how do you justify breaking into David Farrars office and/or computers is in the public interest? What info came from that about elected officials?
I haven’t read the book so can you tell us?
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August 16, 2014 10:25am
All_on_Red

Mikey
Which public officials?
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August 16, 2014 10:26am
IGM

The scum at Manawatu Standard have come out in support of this arsehole Hager. Best they make the most of it, their paper is in its death throes, and the sleeze in editorial chairs are the cause.
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August 16, 2014 10:28am
mikenmild

The PM’s office. He has said in the past that his office acts for him.
Re the info from DPF: I gather there is a footnote to the effect that this was leaked by an employee, so no break in. This one’s pretty small beer though, nothing personal was revealed and it’s hard to see what damage was caused.
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August 16, 2014 10:28am
scrubone

My contribution to the Hager affair:
http://halfdone.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/new-zealands-watergate/
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August 16, 2014 10:28am
Other_Andy

All_on_Red says at 10:19 am

“Slater boasts openly about his ‘hacker pals’ which obtained 28GB plus a filing cabinet full of documents for him, which he has used to run his dirty politics campaign.”

According to mikenmild this is ok as long as Slater doesn’t personally gets the information but has someone else to do the dirty work for him (like Hager) and as long as the information disclosed is in the public interest*.

Correct mikenmild?

*public interest – left-wing interest only
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August 16, 2014 10:30am
All_on_Red

Mikey
People in the PMs office are not public officials. JK is not one of the emailers. So which public officials?
We all know that this us going to end up with Hagar in Court and that’s where it will be decided. Hagar must be stupid if he thinks a legal opinion is going to stop this from being tested.
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August 16, 2014 10:31am

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