General Debate 17 August 2014

August 17th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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253 Responses to “General Debate 17 August 2014”

  1. Dennis Horne (2,388 comments) says:

    I don’t care about the dirty tricks. It’s the price we pay for a free media, the demise of religious control and universal suffrage. People are like fish, they follow the feed and don’t see the hooks.

    I do care about prudence and fairness. So I voted Act, despite the awful John Banks. I hoped to see Don Brash elected. Brash, poor principled Brash, the best prime minister we never had.

    David Seymour will make a good MP, but since Jamie Whyte has failed so miserably, Seymour will be alone, no more than an overhang for National. Populism will continue unabated. Borrow and bribe.

    I am a confirmed atheist. Man is just a smart monkey. His instincts show up in a civilised society as flaws: theft, rape, murder… There are no gods; no supernatural blueprint for our lives.

    Despite my disrelish for religion, I am giving both votes to the Conservatives. Simple-minded as I am.

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  2. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    As most of you are no doubt aware I’ve been going on about the difference between theft and copying for a few days now. Initially I described the motivation for this as being to the copyright industry’s desire to increase the size of their catch via US fair use doctrine. However there is a more important reason for the abuse of the English language the the media trots out: control of the judicial process.

    Evidence is information, and information is typically obtained by copying it from the original source. When copying is misrepresented as theft, it appears that the evidence has been obtained unlawfully and is therefore inadmissible in judicial proceedings.

    This is significant given the corporate media’s role of defending the status quo: in the corporate world the state is the final arbiter of justice. Also given the association between Judith Collins and Cameron Slater, Slater’s correspondence as described in Nicky Hager’s book the issue of controlling the evidence has serious implications for the National party.

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  3. Chuck Bird (4,847 comments) says:

    Who are these two judges protecting and why? By the report in the paper this cowardly child abuser should have been charged with more than assault on a child. The child suffered a head injury.

    Police fail abuse victim twice

    A woman has attacked police for incompetence after they failed to turn up in court when her child-abusing ex-husband got his second discharge without conviction.

    The Sunday Star-Times reported last month that police had to apologise to the woman after her husband – a Tauranga professional – was discharged and awarded name suppression after senior officers watered down the facts against him.

    Expecting better service after the man pleaded guilty to further charges of breaching his protection order, the woman was horrified when a police prosecutor failed to show up for the man’s hearing in the Auckland District Court on Thursday.

    “It beggars belief,” she said, “I don’t know whether we don’t matter or what.”

    Unusually, the case went ahead without a prosecutor and the woman was forced to hear her ex-husband get a second discharge without conviction and permanent name suppression without anyone present to represent her side.

    Police made a second apology to the woman on Friday saying their no-show came down to an “administrative error”.

    Police Prosecutions national manager Inspector Mike Johnson said police “strive to do our best for victims”.

    “[We] are very sorry that due to this administrative error this did not happen on this occasion.”

    It was cold comfort for the woman who said she and her son had lost faith in the police and the criminal justice system.

    Her ex-husband had been discharged without conviction despite admitted slamming the 11-year-old boy’s head twice on to the concrete floor of their garage, dragging him up some stairs, banging him against the walls, dragging him across the lounge floor and hitting his head on to the kitchen table.

    The woman said her son had been living with a brain injury since the attack. “He’s improved but his mental health hasn’t. He only went to school half the time last year. He has headaches, nausea.”

    The case has enraged the Sensible Sentencing Trust which said the police apology was “weak at best”. National spokeswoman Ruth Money said it was “a series of errors by the police which has seen a violent child abuser set free with no consequences for his abusive actions twice”.

    “It really is quite unbelievable how the police and so called ‘justice’ system has let this one family down, let alone the wider public. Is it any wonder we have the tragic child abuse statistics we have when this is what happens? The system is enabling the abuse and allowing it to continue.”

    “They have further abused this victim by mis-handling the breach of the protection order – let’s not forget he’s pleaded guilty here so why the discharge and name suppression? Injustice like this makes the public wonder.”

    Last month the police apologised for their handling of the case. In a letter to the boy’s mother, a senior officer admitted police watered down the summary of facts, failed to keep her and her son informed of the fact they were reducing the charge against the offender – the boy’s father – and failed to return the woman’s phone calls.

    “We pride ourselves on being victim-focused and in your case we fell short of what we expect of our staff and of our processes,” wrote Detective Inspector Mark Loper of Bay of Plenty police.

    At the time Loper said “police take all assaults on children extremely seriously and this was no exception”.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10391716/Police-fail-abuse-victim-twice

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  4. IGM (291 comments) says:

    The filth at APN Herald are on another day of Labour propaganda, along with their mates at NewstalkZB. Don’t they realise this makes one resolute in distaste of the left.

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  5. hmmokrightitis (1,586 comments) says:

    Dear MSM, Judith and Hager,

    Its not hacking. No, really, its not. When a database within a website can be walked into without doing anything other than pointing your browser at it, its not hacking. Its surfing. Hacking requires skills, tools, knowledge. The morons at labour not only didn’t lock the door, they didn’t even realise they needed a door.

    Simple analogy. Judith is standing outside her house, talking to a neighbor, telling her that beastly John Key killed a kitten and ate it for dinner, and she saw the whole thing. Whilst Judith is gumming the poor neighbor, shes holding up a copy of Penny’s last rates demand. Cam Slater walks past, takes a photo of said rates demand. Penny doesn’t know, but its OK, Cam redacts her name. Judith knows, but doesn’t care, she knew it was in the public domain.

    Until 3 years later when some fucktard writes a book and then Judith thinks oh, I can play the aggrieved party here, there is capital to be made…

    Its not hacking.

    I read the extracts of Hagers book in the MSM this morning over coffee. Really, is that it – Collins is disparaging of others. Theres 30 seconds Im never getting back. Oh, and static IP’s, that doesn’t tie a computer to the PM’s right hand man. Nope, sorry, it doesn’t. Smoking gun, yeah, nah. Definitive, nope.

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  6. duggledog (1,528 comments) says:

    Considering how easy it is to photoshop these days, how difficult would it be to manufacture some text in a basic spreadsheet of lines? Or even amend the text?
    I know it’s a bit far fetched but the left are utterly, utterly desperate, many jobs are on the line, many many more will simply vanish if the Cons or Act get enough numbers.

    AND Matt McCarten is involved. That guy is capable of anything

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  7. flipper (3,988 comments) says:

    How the media distort the news: Lies by omission

    A perceptive Joanne Nova writes: “The Sydney Morning Herald carefully removed the scientific arguments from an article today. Are they afraid their readers are not smart enough to reach the “right” conclusions if exposed to the wrong information? Hey, but its only national policy and billions of dollars at stake.

    “Today Maurice Newman warned that we are not prepared for climate change (he’s talking about the cold kind). The Australian published his thoughts citing Archibald, Usoskin, Svensmark, Brekke, Lockwood and Curry. Their readers are apparently clever enough to handle discussions of cosmic rays and large hadron colliders.

    “In Sydney Morning Herald, Latika Bourke and Lisa Cox write an article about Newman’s views, but carefully omit all of the scientific arguments, as well as the potential problems with one sided science funding and the names and credentials of the scientists he talks about.

    The pair do, however, find space to repeat the litany of the IPCC’s estimate of 95% “probability” (it’s hard to believe Sydney Morning Herald readers have not heard this before). They don’t mention that the IPCC estimate is a speculative and unscientific number which gets paradoxically higher as the IPCC’s predictions are proven wrong. Nor did they interview Newman and ask him his opinion of this.”

    Simple question: Does anyone fail to see the similarity between what is reported in Nova’s piece, and the outrageous fiction developed by dot and squiggle joining by Hager and media hell bent in taking down John Key? When diddly squat Armstrong in the Herald likens Hager (and the three year old Slater report of the wide-open Labour website) to Woodward and Bernstein, and the Herald et al breathlessly “disclose” as “evidence” a formal email sent by the General Manager of the National Party to his equivalent in the Labour Party, as confirmation of Hager’s fiction, and criminality is ignored, we know that the MSM has pinned it hopes on Hager to upset the political applecart.

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  8. hmmokrightitis (1,586 comments) says:

    To what end duggle? Anything like that is simple, given availability of web resources, high quality digital printers etc.

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  9. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    NZ Vote Compass: http://nz.votecompass.com/home

    Vote Compass is an educational tool developed by political scientists. Answer a short series of questions to discover how you fit in the New Zealand political landscape.

    A shame Conservatives and Internet Party chose not to participate.

    My results aren’t surprising http://yournz.org/2014/08/17/nz-vote-compass/ – there is a centre! Close.

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  10. SGA (994 comments) says:

    duggledog at 8:14 am

    Considering how easy it is to photoshop these days, how difficult would it be to manufacture some text in a basic spreadsheet of lines? Or even amend the text?

    Fairly easy, but it would be easier to simply create a completely false document.
    However, if one claims that a document is false, then one would have to be certain that there isn’t a digital record of it somewhere that proved it wasn’t.
    (I’m not sure if that’s what you are asking exactly though)

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  11. duggledog (1,528 comments) says:

    IGM are we talking about the same Newstalk ZB here? Hosking is a National man through and through, Leighton Smith considers National to be left wing, Larry Williams I would put in the Conservative bracket, Danny Watson, National for sure and the same would apply to what’s her name who does the night time show.

    Interesting to note the ‘Watergate’ word being used as if it’s even in the same ballpark. Ridiculous, but like ‘child poverty’ you say it enough and it sticks. John Key needs to keep lobbing it back with ‘left wing conspiracy theorist’. Those four words are a good bulwark… for now. I want to see Key go on Campbell Live again and smash him into the weeds.

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  12. Other_Andy (2,613 comments) says:

    I thought the agenda driven partisan New Zealand Hamas couldn’t sink any further.
    After regurgitating the old news of 2011 and the silly accusations of bloggers mentioning making public addresses *gasp* public, the hacks of the Herald continue.

    Read and weep….

    Hager’s tell-all chapters

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11310001

    The partisan insinuations and spin will make you dizzy.
    “Nicky Hager’s Dirty Politics has set the election campaign alight.”
    Allight?
    It has highlighted the political bias of the so called ‘journalists’, that’s about all it has donr. It has put the spotlight on all the roaches scurrying around in the dirt.
    Dirty politics alright, from the politicised New Zealand Hamas ‘reporters’.

    It is unusually grubby to have a member of the prime minister’s staff digging around in their opponent’s computer system looking for dirt.……blahblablah (See the original story in 2011 for the REAL story) …….Senior party officials were involved as well as the senior adviser, and it seems improbable that either would do it without informing the prime minister.

    And the pièce de résistance….

    ………………….In Slater’s words, Key had told him that the dead man’s mother “was the same feral fucking bitch that screams at him when he goes to Pike River meetings”. It seems unlikely that Key would have used such language, but it is clear he had rung to reassure Slater he should not feel bad about upsetting the mother. When the rest of the country was feeling appalled by Slater’s offensiveness, the prime minister of New Zealand was calling to show his support.

    What seems to become a regular occurrence is that the grubby mudslinger (This is not reporting anymore) is writing this rubbish anonymously.

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  13. hj (6,919 comments) says:

    The Voice of The Labour Movement

    Farrar shills for NZ’s most racist academic

    http://thestandard.org.nz/farrar-shills-for-nzs-most-racist-academic/

    Who said these drop kicks represent working New Zealanders?

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  14. Yoza (1,816 comments) says:

    hmmokrightitis (1,546 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 8:09 am

    Dear MSM, Judith and Hager, …

    The funny thing is, hmmok, that the more you lot whine about Nicky Hager’s Dirty Politics the more obvious the importance of the work appears.

    Heh, keep it up, guys.

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  15. EAD (1,001 comments) says:

    Very subtle propaganda today from the MSM:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10391827/Public-wants-parties-to-come-clean

    When you see who is promoting this policy the scales start to fall from the eyes. Someone by the name of “Andrew Geddis” and “Grant Duncan” who both happen to be “political lecturers” (i.e. left wing indoctrinators) .

    They hint that the way to “clean up politics” is for all donations to be made public (as if it is somehow shady or immoral to give money to a political party) or they say state funding exclusively might be the solution.

    Despite their protestation about wanting to “clean up politics”, what they really want is to stop the little people rebelling against the current stitchup whereby onseveral key issues, the 3 big parties hold near identical views that are opposed by a large majority of the population and are essentially “not up for debate”.

    What they don’t like is people like Colin Craig, John Ansell, Gareth McVicar et al. putting their own money up and braving the media blowtorch and smears and challenging their cosy little club in Wellington.

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  16. hmmokrightitis (1,586 comments) says:

    Dont think I did whine yoza, merely pointed out the truth. But then thats in short supply at the moment. Facts dont often sell papers, books or adverts, breathless reports of supposed scandal, that sells.

    Pointing out shortcomings, as many have done with you, doesn’t signify importance, merely gaping holes.

    Again, I give a rats arse. When the MSM finally man up and tell us about the influence a wellington lawyer has over the leader of the labour party, then Ill pay real interest. That pillow talk, its a bitch.

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  17. EAD (1,001 comments) says:

    I should add my view is that all party funding be restricted to donations from registered voters.

    No businesses, no unions, no charities recycling tax money into the party in power ….

    Only the electors should have the right to fund the groups of those individuals they elect. If a party has received any donations from non-electors, they should be barred from elections.

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  18. Bob (496 comments) says:

    Personally I am not interested in Hagar or his book. For the election I am interested in who will be best at running the country not who said what to who. Nobody has been murdered. The very one sidedness of Hagar’s campaign says all I need to know. While a National supporter I am interested in Labour’s genuine policies not smears and attacks. They only highlight how chagrined the left are at not being able to dislodge Key who seems to go from strength to strength.

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  19. hj (6,919 comments) says:

    What Clydesdale warned of is referred to here as a fail by “us” . The rapidly growing PI population needs to be trained etc (“we aren’t doing it”)

    Ian Pool, Emiritus Professor, National Institute of Demographic and Economic Analysis, Waikato University.

    From Nine To Noon on 15 Aug 2014
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/20145801/what%27s-behind-big-jump-in-population

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  20. Colville (2,261 comments) says:

    AND Matt McCarten is involved. That guy is capable of anything

    …certianly capable of halving the support for the Labour Party over the course of the last year! :-)

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  21. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I don’t care about the dirty tricks.

    Yeah, it’s easy enough not to care when you’re not the victim.

    It’s the price we pay for a free media, the demise of religious control and universal suffrage.

    We, meaning simple minded muppets such as yourself.

    People are like fish, they follow the feed and don’t see the hooks.

    Not everyone is as simple minded as that.

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  22. kowtow (8,324 comments) says:

    Oh look the religion of peace ,tolerance and mass immigration to the west is at it again.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11038479/US-drone-strikes-destroy-Islamic-State-armed-vehicles-amid-reports-of-Yazidi-massacre.html

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  23. OneTrack (3,024 comments) says:

    duggledog – re ZB, Danny would be Labour, Rachel definitely Green and I would say Hoskings is fairly center (but Labour is currently displaying so much incompetence and simply crack-head policies, he cant help but call it out). Leighton at a guess would be ACT.

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  24. FeralScrote (204 comments) says:

    Omg ,sanctimony overload with leftwing attack MSM talking head Susan Wood interviewing the terminably miserable Hager ,*gasp*, Nicky is shocked by the banter in private emails,maybe in the interests of balance the pair of them should visit Labour leftwing attack blog The Standard to get a taste of shrill nastiness.

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  25. EAD (1,001 comments) says:

    I see in America at the moment there is wall to wall coverage of the tragic story of Michael Brown who was shot dead whilst unarmed by Police Officers in St Louis: http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/10390854/Cop-who-shot-Michael-Brown-named

    Whilst the reality of Americas Police State is another story (and something the likes of Stephie pretends does not exist), it is just amazing to watch the DEPTH and EMPHASIS of coverage of such white on black murders/crimes get (think O.J. Simpson, the “rape” charges against Duke University students, and trials resulting from the beating of Rodney King, the death of Trayvon Martin and now this).

    Despite the above all having the truth misconstrued (especially Duke University & Trayvon) by the Media, white on black murders are 200 time less likely than the reverse yet the media pretends these things never happen. When they are reported, the racial profile is often never given, the criminals merely referred to as “youths”

    The brilliant Thomas Sowell covers this below and says that this sort of environment and narrative that is stoked by the MSM and the political elite deliberately divides the nation and is leading to an all out race war.

    http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/black-mobs-and-the-coming-race-war/

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  26. Yoza (1,816 comments) says:

    hmmokrightitis (1,548 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 8:40 am

    Facts dont often sell papers, books …

    They do if those facts are gleaned from emails to and from a National party attack blog, the selling was so frenetic in the case of Dirty Politics it sold out.

    Not bad for a book based on the factual evidence of the emails of Slater and co.

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  27. IGM (291 comments) says:

    duggledog: I am referring to subbing and dissemination of news items . . . they are decidedly biased.

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  28. wiseowl (869 comments) says:

    Dennis Horne.
    Couldn’t have put it better myself.
    Convincing some of the sheeple to note the hooks and avoid the mass move to the flavour of the day could make a huge difference to the dictatorial term we have just endured.

    The ‘cleanliness ‘ of the CP is very attractive at this stage.

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  29. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    Danyl digs into the Slater versus Hide story, then comments:

    If I was Slater, Lusk or Williams, I think this is the stuff I’d be losing sleep over.

    I am not a lawyer, but I looked through the crimes act and asked a real lawyer about this, and if the police can establish that these messages really were sent by Lusk and Slater they are admissible as evidence whether or not they were obtained illegally, and might be used, along with Slater’s blog posts, to charge them with conspiracy to commit blackmail, irrespective of whether Hide feels that he was actually blackmailed. Maximum sentence seven years.

    http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2014/08/17/the-rodney-hide-allegations/

    Coercive threats from Slater are not uncommon. He plays politics, responsible to no one and certainly with no democratic mandate.

    I don’t know how or if any police action would be taken on this, Danyl might have more dots than Hager but I don’t know if his claims stack up, but there’s clear signs of undermining politicians, parties and democracy. This should be a major issue.

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  30. kowtow (8,324 comments) says:

    other andy

    The election has been “set alight”

    Last night TVNZ reported a poll showing something like over 80 % just don’t give a shit about the book .

    ‘Alight” and all the breathlessness of our media and their jumpng on this like its a world shaking event ,Watergate even, shows how utterly out of touch they are. They really do live in a studio bubble world.

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  31. hj (6,919 comments) says:

    Tigger 3
    16 August 2014 at 8:08 am

    Cactus Kate proving very quotable. “Those Chinese can be very vicious when they lose face … Chop chop for Nicky.”
    “Like a lot of the rest of the book that email was just private chatter and banter between various people on emails where absolutely nothing else happened as a consequence,”

    Nothing happened except put your sad, vile truths on display, CK. Racism doesn’t stop being disgusting just because it’s private.

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11309750
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-16082014/

    Funny how it is racsim to think that rich Chinese might attack Hagar when tax avoidance is revealed. So do these anti-racists ever have negative thoughts about anyone? Yeah right, their other is white capitalists (white workers are in quarantine).

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  32. kowtow (8,324 comments) says:

    “The ‘cleanliness ‘ of the CP is very attractive at this stage.”

    That’s why their enemies,and there are a few of them posting here constantly attack CC’s image as “creepy” and also constantly spread lies about their ties to fundamental Christianity.

    Dirty politics indeed.

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  33. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    ‘Occasionally Erudite’ has a good look at the political argument for and against – Was a crime committed when Slater accessed Labour’s computer system?

    Re-posted at The Standard.

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  34. stephieboy (2,796 comments) says:

    EAD, US a police state.? Is that the actual reality and experience of the average citizen including Paul Craig Roberts.Zero Hedge,Alex Jones, Jeff Resne , Fox News, etc ,etc
    Is e.g the Internet filtered and censored, are there mass arrests and illegal detention on a daily occurrence .?
    The incident in Missouri is unfortunately not an uncommon event historically in the last 40 or so years and there is
    nothing new with SWAT team in quelling lawlessness or
    criminal activity.It may tell us more about e.g the liberal availability and access to Weaponry not seen else where and the Americans historical trend towards violence and criminality for a whole host of complex reasons.
    But America is not a Police state unless you believe the likes of Paranoia King Alex Jones .

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  35. Other_Andy (2,613 comments) says:

    kowtow says:

    “They really do live in a studio bubble world.”

    Yep, they keep it alive, whip it up and then sit back, taking no responsibility what so ever.
    EAD at 9:31 am gives some good examples of ‘media coverage’ that has caused misery and death and destruction.
    The smug little weasels just sit back and watch the fires burn before adding some more petrol.
    This is the media making the news instead of reporting it.

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  36. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Nicky is shocked by the banter in private emails,maybe in the interests of balance the pair of them should visit Labour leftwing attack blog The Standard to get a taste of shrill nastiness.

    While the pack mentality can be as bad as anything I’ve seen at WheelOil, there are some reasonable commentators there.
    But as far as identifying the source of the the problem goes, it’s from the light & dark threads of conservative tradition. The left just copies the vitriol and feeds it back to them IMO.

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  37. Other_Andy (2,613 comments) says:

    Pete George says at 9:48 am

    “‘Occasionally Erudite’ has a good look at the political argument for and against – Was a crime committed when Slater accessed Labour’s computer system?”

    You do know this is all old news Pete.
    All dealt with three years ago…..
    Regurgitated by lazy ‘journalists’ specializing in shit stirring and conspiracy theories who can’t even get the few facts there are correct.

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  38. Maggy Wassilieff (344 comments) says:

    Nicky on Nat Radio at the moment.

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  39. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    Oh dear!

    I awoke to discover that apparently the Ref/Suzy/Rain/Travel all conspired to deny the NZ National Rugby team another victory.

    How many might stop and consider that it might be none of the above, it might not be anything to do with outside forces. It is more likely to do with the supreme arrogance as exhibited by the NZ National Rugby team, its management and the vast majority of their supporters.

    All in all a great result. I know that the draw put a huge smile on my face, a smile that will only get bigger next Saturday when the Aussie’s defeat the NZ National Rugby team at Eden Park.

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  40. oldpark (287 comments) says:

    Time for a spotlight on the so called Green Party.Just a bunch of brigands and psychopaths.Already today in an article The Australian Commie import Russel Norman,frequent visitor to the rented house of another import called Schmidz/Dotcon convicted criminal.wanted by the FBI.Norman caught lying about party donations.Hager another Greenie receives stolen personal emails and makes a lot of money from stolen goods peddling them by way of a book and lies.Is it any coincidence that the guy wanted by the FBI,for allegedly breaking into other peoples personal property ,and selling them to get a pecuniary benefit,is a cohort of Norman and Hager ,who both of them have visited the German import SCHMIDZ/DOTCON,to have so called confidential discussions NO CHANCE OF A CONSPIRACY THEORY HERE ,THE VISITS TO THE RENTED MANSION BY GREEN PARTY LEADER NORMAN AND HAGER IS WELL DOCUMENTED.

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  41. kowtow (8,324 comments) says:

    “All in all a great result. I know that the draw put a huge smile on my face, a smile that will only get bigger next Saturday when the Aussie’s defeat the NZ National Rugby team at Eden Park.”

    Yeah Bigot Bruv ,let’s talk about the really important things going on in New Zealand and the world……

    ……meanwhile there’s a genocide happening in northern Iraq perpetrated in no small way by children of immigrants to the west who have travelled to Syria and Iraq to murder rape and loot.oung men and women from Australia,new Zealand,Britain,France and Germany.

    Western and Arab govts have armed and funded these people who have now destabilised 2 countries with Lebanon now also affected.

    Move along nothing to see here.

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  42. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    You seem quite concerned about events in Iraq, kowtow. Do you feel these are not being sufficiently reported? Should we stop watching rugby and turn to CNN or Fox 24/7 for the latest?

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  43. Yvette (2,784 comments) says:

    National Hacked Labour?

    The Labour Party was still “considering advice and options” on whether to take legal action – Cunliffe

    Quite some time ago, years in fact, Kiwiblog mentioned an Auckland musician who had name suppression and showed an image of a CD produced by him, but with areas blocked out so his ID was hidden.

    I am using an iMac and could click the cursor on the image and drag that photo file from the Safari browser window over to the iMac “Desktop” background, then open the file in Photoshop, to reveal it was not a single level collapsed jpeg. but instead an image in several layers, one being the solid blocks positioned to obscure the person’s ID. And that could be slid aside to reveal his name.

    Is this hacking – use of a computer to gain unauthorized access to data in a system?
    Or just simply accessing a website and opening the freely downloadable files?

    The Labour Party should be invited to take legal action over their hacking claims.
    It should clarify that National did nothing more than open files available on Labour’s website, and, if not intended for public viewing, reflects Labour’s gross computer illiteracy in
    1] leaving the website “open”
    2] storing what they deem to be sensitive information in such a location to start with, and
    3] making the claim now that it was “hacked”

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  44. kowtow (8,324 comments) says:

    “Do you feel these are not being sufficiently reported?”

    Compared to the Hamas managed coverage of Gaza ,yes, the events in Syria and Iraq are not being sufficiently covered. But then that is also part of the media world agenda.

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  45. Lance (2,635 comments) says:

    @Yoza et al

    So long as people are focusing on Hagars horrid abuse of personal property they are ignoring policy, especially from the left.

    So yes, let the controversy continue, it’s such a good strategy.

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  46. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Is this hacking – use of a computer to gain unauthorized access to data in a system?

    That’s not what hacking means. Most web access is not explicitly authorized. Hacking involves defeating a security protocol.

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  47. Lance (2,635 comments) says:

    When it comes down to it.
    Does the undecided voter want National or the coalition from hell?

    No matter what shit is splattered around, that will be the issue.

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  48. Gulag1917 (878 comments) says:

    Hard to understand referee decisions cost the NZ a win against the Wallabies.

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  49. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ssh Gulag, according to kowtow you’re not supposed to discuss rugby while people are dying in Iraq.

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  50. adze (2,105 comments) says:

    Bruv, for someone who doesn’t care about rugby, you seem to comment on it quite often…

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  51. stephieboy (2,796 comments) says:

    Gulag, the problem is that the rules of Rugby at the breakdown etc are many and rather complex unlike say league.But the ref was right there but god knows .!

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  52. dime (9,856 comments) says:

    Ugly truth – are you a commie? Your hatred of property rights is unusual.

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  53. Redbaiter (8,551 comments) says:

    When it comes down to it.
    Does the undecided voter want National or the coalition from hell?

    Good question.

    Trouble is Nat supporters are so far left these days they can’t make a rational case for voting for National.

    If the above is all you can say then the logical implication is that National are not much good.

    So what you have to do is make the case showing the benefit if National wins against the benefit if National loses.

    If Nats lose Key and his progressives get dumped and maybe the party will return to being the right wing conservative party it was always meant to be.

    If Labour wins the population will receive such a dose of bitter medicine they’ll not vote left again for a long long time.

    So there is a case for a Nat’s loss being a big benefit to the country.

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  54. kowtow (8,324 comments) says:

    Feel free to discuss anything you like.Just accept that this is an open forum.

    Forum; from Rome. Part of our ancient cultural traditons……for the moment.

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  55. dime (9,856 comments) says:

    Dime has gone off rugby this year. I watch a bit but goddam the standard is poor. I still watch the all blacks but if last nights game didn’t involve them I would have switched off by half time.

    I still think the best game of rugby is a better watch than the best game of league… But goddam, an average game of league is light years ahead of an average game of rugby.

    I loved rugby fir a good twenty years.. But now my top sports are:

    1) ufc
    2) cricket
    3) league
    4) Union

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  56. dime (9,856 comments) says:

    Sad news :

    Seattle music legend Rick Parashar, who produced PEARL JAM’s “Ten” album and ALICE IN CHAINS’ “Sap” EP, has passed away at the age of 50. According to Northwest Music Scene, Parashar died Thursday afternoon (August 14) of natural causes stemming from a pulmonary embolism during which a blood clot moved from his leg to his heart.

    In 2001, Parashar produced 3 DOORS DOWN’s multi-platinum album “Away From The Sun” and was nominated for a Grammy for NICKELBACK’s “Silver Side Up”, which sold in excess of 6 million copies. His production credits also include albums from TEMPLE OF THE DOG, BLIND MELON and BON JOVI.

    In 1985, Rick and his brother Raj founded Seattle’s London Bridge Studio, which became a central location for the burgeoning grunge movement in the early ’90s.

    In addition to producing and engineering, Rick played piano, Fender Rhodes, organ and percussion. He, however, has been most recognized in the industry for his production of vocals.

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  57. kowtow (8,324 comments) says:

    Qatar and other Arab states aided by britain, France and the US are responsible for this.

    Where is the outrage?

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/islamic-state-group-executes-700-syria-2014816123945662121.html

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  58. oldpark (287 comments) says:

    Reading how the so called independent Herald is handling old news .Seems in their headline they are supporting Labour ,who are hugging a corpse.They ask who was the person from Nats who had the audacity to look at our opened Labour Party website, in 2011 They should check the privacy commissioner records,as after all, all the would be, could be viewers were checked out then.Of course a biased Herald newspaper cub reporter ,might sell a few more daily newspapers ,boosting their daily decline of subscribers.It also helps a Labour Party,slip sliding down the hill .Maybe the 22.5% Polls could be arrested for a few hours.

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  59. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10391716/Police-fail-abuse-victim-twice

    Useless fucking cops, if their brains was dynamite there wouldn’t be enough to blow their hats off.

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  60. Yoza (1,816 comments) says:

    Lance (2,505 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 10:56 am

    @Yoza et al

    So long as people are focusing on Hagars horrid abuse of personal property they are ignoring policy, especially from the left.

    So yes, let the controversy continue, it’s such a good strategy.

    Policy?! The Key regime is appearing more and more as a big business PR campaign than a competent government, an idea reinforced by Nicky Hager’s book.

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  61. Longknives (4,690 comments) says:

    Big Bruv- There are reports the elusive Suzy the Waitress was seen in Sydney last night, poisoning the team’s Zebra meat?
    And how dare the ref penalise Saint Ritchie? Doesn’t he know he is D4J’s best mate??
    Never mind- The self-professed ‘Greatest Sports Team in the History of the Universe’ will no doubt console themselves with some ‘heroic’ shooting of peaceful,exotic wildlife before they come home- making them feel big and brave once more!

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  62. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Westboro Baptist Church plans protest at Robin Williams funeral

    Members of the controversial Kansas-based Westboro Baptist Church are planning an ill-advised protest at actor Robin Williams’ funeral over his portrayal of a gay man in The Birdcage.

    The Good Will Hunting star passed away on Monday and while details of his funeral have not been made public, members of the church have already announced plans to picket the memorial.

    A message posted on the group’s official Twitter page reads: “Westboro Baptist Church Hopes To Preach In Lawful Proximity To Robin Williams’ Funeral – To Warn The Living: Repent Or Likewise Perish.”

    What possible good could these morons expect to come out of their protest?

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  63. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Excellent 3 part series on the Kennedy’s – where they came from, what happened to them and why.

    http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/kennedys-elite-dynasty-got-decimated-pt/

    http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/hidden-life-kennedys-elite-dynasty-got-decimated-pt-ii/

    http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/hidden-life-kennedys-elite-dynasty-got-decimated-pt-iii/

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  64. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Was never a great fan of Robin Williams but this article made me think again:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10391816/Robin-Williams-final-message-of-hope

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  65. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    adze

    Show me the comment I have ever made saying that I dislike Rugby.

    I love the game. It’s just the NZ national rugby team and most of their supporters who I am dislike.

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  66. kowtow (8,324 comments) says:

    “…..and most of their supporters who I am dislike.”

    Sad bastard.

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  67. Longknives (4,690 comments) says:

    Bruv- Just reading all the outrage on Facebook etc re the referee..(seems he is the first ref for years who actually had the balls the penalise and card the All Blacks)
    People threatening/abusing him and calling for him to be sacked etc
    All these whingers have got rather short memories- How many times have the allegedly ‘invincible’ All Blacks been saved by a terrified/intimidated ref in recent years? Christ more times than I can remember…

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  68. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    Longknives.

    Perhaps old D4J is at this very moment sitting outside Christchurch Airport in Saint Richie’s sponsored Ford (of course a great mate would always lend you his sponsored Ford when overseas) awaiting the return of his best mate.

    If that is indeed the case then we only have but a few hours to wait to hear the real reason the NZ National Rugby team lost, we will get the information straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

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  69. stephieboy (2,796 comments) says:

    Nostradamus, such is the lunacy and depravity of Westboro Baptist and the far ,far right in America.

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  70. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    As long as Richie and dad aren’t flying back from Aus in a glider we should expect a report soon! :)

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  71. Redbaiter (8,551 comments) says:

    “such is the lunacy and depravity of Westboro Baptist and the far ,far right in America.”

    If you had a half a clue, you would know they are Democrats through and through.

    http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/westboro-baptist-church-leader-fred-phelps-democrat

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  72. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    Longknives.

    I imagine that the Ref was still blinkered when it came to Saint Richie. While I did not watch the game I would imagine that St Richie was not sent to the bin, I also would not mind betting that St Richie was up to all his usual tricks and many of these would have been committed in clear sight of the Ref.

    The day that the NZ National Rugby team plays under a ref who really is not scared of the NZRU will be the day the NZ National Rugby team cops a hiding.

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  73. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    Hey…..Just a thought.

    Is D4J the dude in the new Mastercard television advert?

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  74. adze (2,105 comments) says:

    bruv
    Ah, ok. I was under the impression you thought the game was all thuggery and you weren’t interested – I stand corrected.

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  75. stephieboy (2,796 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, the Wrstoboro Baptists Democract.?

    Hardly you deluded fool,

    http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=westboro+baptist+church+obama&client=safari&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=QPvvU-
    SaCYPm8AXO2IKABg&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1024&
    amp;bih=660

    I think you’d snuck up with them very closely .

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  76. dad4justice (8,137 comments) says:

    My stalker bigot blouse keeps his unhealthy obsession with me going firing on cylinders. How many comments about me today Graham? Please get some professional help, this fixation is beyond belief. Everybody on here can see how unhinged and hateful you are. Unbelievable and creepy.

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  77. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    D4J:

    You’re not spoiling for a flame-war, are you?

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  78. dad4justice (8,137 comments) says:

    Nostra if you can take your eye patch off for a second you will spot that bigot blouse has mentioned me twice in my absence trying to entice me into a flame war. Look Nostra I have had bigot blouse bad mouthing me for nearly a decade. Isn’t it time we settled this for once and all for the sake of everybody.
    It is obvious poor Graham has severe issues that could be dealt with advice from a mental health expert. It’s a very sick and sad individual. Surely you agree the fixation is not normal?

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  79. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    Afternoon D4J.

    So has Richie tipped you the wink yet?, got any inside goss on why the NZ National Rugby team did not manage to win?

    It must be cool to be given a lend of the sponsored Ford though, I take it that you are sitting in it whilst using your lap top?

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  80. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Gliders never go down in flames Nostra.

    Now if Richie is really exceeding his licence there is a possibility that dad may get cremated! :)

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  81. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    D4J:

    Did you see this advice from Nookin last night?

    Nookin (3,104 comments) says:
    August 16th, 2014 at 9:56 pm

    You may see it that way, dad, but it does seem that you are constantly lurking, ready to pounce as soon as bb turns up. As far as his comments are concerned, cant you see he is winding you up like a clock?

    It takes two to tango as far as a flame-war is concerned.

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  82. dad4justice (8,137 comments) says:

    I will ask you again Nostra;

    It is obvious poor Graham has severe issues that could be dealt with advice from a mental health expert. It’s a very sick and sad individual. Surely you agree the fixation is not normal?

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  83. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I presume you made another $20k or so betting on the draw last night, D4J?

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  84. dad4justice (8,137 comments) says:

    Hey Nostra the Cat got your tongue?

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  85. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    D4J:

    Actually, I’ve seen threads where you’ve opened fire on Big Bruv (as Nookin said), and I’ve seen threads where Big Bruv opened fire on you. If you disagree with this assessment, as I suspect you will, then feel free to ask other Kiwiblog old-timers for their thoughts.

    By the way, if you’re going to appoint yourself as the shining beacon of good blog behaviour, have you reflected on the comments you directed at me last night? I’ve never (as far as I know) introduced my wife into any Kiwiblog discussion. I assume you wouldn’t be thrilled if someone dragged your partner and children into the debate.

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  86. Yvette (2,784 comments) says:

    From Hager’s book –

    In Slater’s words, Key had told him that the dead man’s mother “was the same feral fucking bitch that screams at him when he goes to Pike River meetings”. It seems unlikely that Key would have used such language, but it is clear he had rung to reassure Slater he should not feel bad about upsetting the mother. When the rest of the country was feeling appalled by Slater’s offensiveness, the prime minister of New Zealand was calling to show his support.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11310001

    So, did Prime Minister John Key say ” feral fucking bitch”, or would he say “fucking feral bitch”, or he did actually say neither

    And apparently this exchange was not private emails but rather public Facebook, but these references now appear to be removed – and maybe not because of the Prime Minister’s reputed comment, real or not, but because of threats to pack rape Cameron’s daughter.

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  87. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Interesting analysis of ISIS and the Shiite Crescent.

    http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/iraq-policy-washingtons-puzzle-palace-keeps-getting-curiouser/

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  88. redqueen (556 comments) says:

    Well, Stephen Moyer just proved himself to be a real prick:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11310005

    ‘One of the great joys of driving down to Wellington town every day is seeing how the National Party posters have been defaced.’

    I’ve got a better idea: how about you sod off out of this country and leave it alone. What an absolute bastard. And here I was giving the Paquin the benefit of the doubt (I guess I was wrong!)

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  89. FeralScrote (204 comments) says:

    Looks like Whaleoil is about to hit the LOUD pedal,
    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/important-whaleoil-advisory-a-message-to-the-hacking-henchmen/

    And here`s me all out of popcorn…. : (

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  90. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Quoting from FeralScrote’s link to Whaleoil:

    Today, Whaleoil will produce its biggest story yet.

    Instead of “could be”, “might”, “it is thought that” or a 30 minute John Campbell time line journey, the news that will break later will reveal hard evidence conclusively proving who is behind the orchestrated hacking of computers and taking private data illegally that led to the production of Hager’s Dirty Politics book.

    Henchmen, this is a pivotal time in your career. You can choose to be grouped with your pay master, or you can try and make a deal.

    We here, at Whaleoil, are not after those who the pay master has manipulated to his own ends.

    We are not interested in the puppets, we are interested in the puppet master.

    We know who most of you are, but you need to decide.

    A clock is ticking.

    This offer expires in one hour.

    I’m sure Whaleoil would have learnt a few lessons from the Len Brown/Bevan Chuang story about how to release a politically-explosive story.

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  91. nickb (3,686 comments) says:

    Whaleoil to name hackers on his blog at 2.30pm

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  92. Yvette (2,784 comments) says:

    Labour’s ruling council has decided to won’t be taking and legal action over any of the claims in Dirty Politics – Katie Bradford

    flip, flop

    Labour now say NO decision has been made re legal action, despite a ruling council member telling me it had. Party still waiting for advice. – Katie Bradford

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  93. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nickb (3,672 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 2:10 pm

    Oh, how sweet, still doing Slater’s work for him, even on a Sunday. That’s dedication eh Nickb! :-)

    Will he also be revealing who he got to hack the 28GB of data from a business – the people he refers to as his ‘hacker pals’?

    PS and will it just be his word, or will he actually provide evidence? Its just that his word for it wouldn’t really be acceptable would it? Especially has he insists we can’t take Hager’s word for it? Besides, if its only his word, we already knows who he will blame.

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  94. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    I hear the rattle of roller doors being quickly pulled down over vulnerable windows! :)

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  95. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    National 70 seats after this expose! :)

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  96. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Your thesis must be very thin Judith, unless you’re including all the research you’ve done to support your constant presence at KB! :)

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  97. nickb (3,686 comments) says:

    Oh, how sweet, still doing Slater’s work for him, even on a Sunday. That’s dedication eh Nickb! :-)

    Rather that than doing Joe Karam’s work for a lifetime.

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  98. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nickb (3,673 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 2:17 pm

    Oh dear Nick, is that the very best you could come up with? Really? My you must be having a busy week. Go on give it another shot nickb (of the ‘Dirty Politics’ fame). :-)

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  99. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Your starting to sound like dads twin sister Judith! :)

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  100. dad4justice (8,137 comments) says:

    Hey Johnboy do you get a kick out of backstabbing? The level of jellyfish on here is unbelievable. Point a comment where I have bad mouthed you. You sad arse bloggers would be real interesting specimens for a laboratory experiment. Do anonymous bloggers have back bones? Pathetic sick losers.

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  101. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    Interesting reaction in advance:

    What is the bet that Slater gets it wrong?

    Written By: lprent – Date published: 2:26 pm, August 17th, 2014 – 1 comment
    Categories: uncategorized – Tags: cameron slater, fuckwits

    Apparently Cameron Slater is going to “out” the identity of who got the emails off his system. What is the bet that he has it wrong – again?

    His track record is that he virtually always gets it wrong when he “outs” people. Look at his “outing” of Simon Pleasants – wrong. And he is always wrong on our authors.

    So far he has outed DotCom for this break in. Yeah right…. Next up is ?

    Poor bugger. The stats on that reeking stupid fuckwit Cameron Slater is that he will pick the wrong person. I hope that someone competent has been hand holding the gibbering child. It’d be better if it was accurate for a change.

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  102. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Sorry old chap it’s just that she’s starting to copy your rhetoric. I naturally assumed you are both related! :)

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  103. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Seeing as the Crewe’s trainwreck thread had reached 373 comments, and was showing some sign of letting up, I offered the protaganists some encouragement:

    Nostradamus (3,041 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    We briefly interrupt this debate with a public service announcement:

    Underground will live forever baby. We’re just like roaches. Never die, always living. And on that note, let’s get back to the program – Trancesetter – Roaches (Peace Division Mix)

    Carry on!

    Surely they can get to 400 comments?

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  104. dad4justice (8,137 comments) says:

    Whatever Johnboy, carry on and backstab it’s the kiwiblog way. Meanwhile in real life people face consequences when they bad mouth a person face to face.

    “Is that some sort of pathetic threat dad?”

    No threat Johnboy just carrying on backstabbing you are good at it.

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  105. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Is that some sort of pathetic threat dad?

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  106. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    And, so it begins, at Whaleoil.

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  107. FeralScrote (204 comments) says:

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/breaking-kim-dotcom-paymaster-hacker/#more-150690

    Boom Shakalaka!

    See ya,see ya ,wouldn`t wanta be ya .

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  108. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Oh dear Laila and Hone and Cunners and Wussel/Metiria. Their buddy is exposed as a fat German lardwurst who only has one aim to destablise NZ politics to his own advantage. Just deport the prick! :)

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  109. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    It’s not that big from Whale Oil yet. He’s blaming Dotcom, that’s nothing new. And he’s got some texts involving Wayne Tempero that sort of fit with his claims but he needs more than that to be convincing.

    He must have more or he’s over-promised and under-delivered.

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  110. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    That’s his proof? That’s not solid evidence, its a whole heap of speculation. How very disappointing!

    Still, it doesn’t dispute what has been revealed – and the ‘dirty politics’ – it just gives it all another layer!

    Pleased though – we all knew who he’d name – there is of course more dirty political points to be gained by him naming that person.

    I await ACTUAL evidence – I suspect we will never see any because Slater has a very big vested interest in making sure we don’t.

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  111. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    A re-make of Robin Hood. Starring Wussel as Wobin and Metiria as Triar Fuck! :)

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10392621/Greens-take-from-the-rich-for-the-poor

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  112. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Pete George (23,069 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    They only fit if you want them to fit. The two different lots of correspondence could easily be about two entirely different things. The first lot in June could easily fit a conversation about the Banks stuff, or any of the crap Dotcom is involved in. It certainly dose not provide evidence that KDC was involved in the same stuff that Hager got his hands on. The fact that he says Slater is going down, could be about anything – maybe he hacked my computer and checked out my OIA’s! ;-)

    Sorry, I’m not convinced, and its all a bit distraction – none of it excuses or justifies what Slater and DPF et al have done.

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  113. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Keep up the rearguard action Judith, pathetic as it is. Your side is knackered! :)

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  114. srylands (408 comments) says:

    “Poor bugger. The stats on that reeking stupid fuckwit Cameron Slater is that he will pick the wrong person. I hope that someone competent has been hand holding the gibbering child. It’d be better if it was accurate for a change.”

    Another example of the non-stop language of hate and bile from Lynn Prentice and his fellow travellers. I’m all for robust debate, but is this really what we want to see from those active in the political process? I know some very bright 20-30 year olds who have zero interest in politics, and who don’t vote. This shit will just confirm the wisdom of their choice.

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  115. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Judith:

    Whaleoil operates by applying a death-by-a-thousand-cuts strategy.

    Whaleoil’s post (which already has you commenting frantically) is likely to be the first of many instalments. So, for you to make up your mind after the first post makes you look, well, a bit silly.

    If you were a man, you’d be accused of premature ejaculation. Since you’re supposedly a woman, you’ll be accused of faking an orgasm.

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  116. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Judith hasn’t popped down to Wainui yet to prove she’s a woman Nostra.

    Hence I haven’t been judged to be guilty of premature ejaculation yet! :)

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  117. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    “Point a comment where I have bad mouthed you. You sad arse bloggers…..”

    The irony escapes old D4J.

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  118. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Nostradamus (3,044 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 3:02 pm

    Okay, fair enough criticism. Sorry I am not familiar with the way Whale oil operates – you know all the sayings, lie down with dogs, filth and stuff – I prefer not to wander near the place unless its really necessary – I thought with all the hoopla Slater was going to tell the explicit truth, not dribble.

    But lets just say Dotcom was the hacker – how does that make anything that Slater et al have done, any the more respectable?

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  119. freemark (569 comments) says:

    Hey Judith
    It was very recently that you asserted to me (& others) here that you hadn’t/didn’t read/comment (or weren’t even aware) of The Standard.
    Do you stand by that statement?
    Please be careful with your answer, as you may have had your personal emails/FB hacked, and it seems that you are totally fine with the culprit publishing the details…

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  120. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    The screaming of the left for JK to apologise/resign looks a tad hypocritical when they’ve bankrolled a criminal to pay Hager to write a toilet roll! :)

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  121. Yvette (2,784 comments) says:

    Wussel as Wobin maybe, but I was just getting used to Metiria being Little Sausage :-)

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  122. Longknives (4,690 comments) says:

    This Stephen Moyer prick can take a hike…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11310005

    On the other hand- It seems the Greens aren’t hiding from the fact that they deface billboards- How very mature. Just the sort of behaviour you want from a Potential Government!

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  123. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ freemark (474 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    I have now twice been to the standard – I did it by mistake again the other day, followed a link from here to the Standard. As I have said before, it was even more frightening than here. So yes, I stand totally by my word.

    I am not an idiot – nor am I taking part in any dirty politics. For that reason if some hacked my facebook page, the only things they would come up with would be photos of my grandchildren, and pets. As far as my email is concerned, I have two accounts, one for personal and one for other stuff – like joining up here.

    The personal one is not stored on my computer and therefore cannot be accessed by a hacker. It is also only accessed via a secure sever, that if it has been hacked, then we are all in a great deal of difficulty. Of course nothing is impossible. But apart from having my thesis etc stolen, there is nothing anywhere that would worry me.

    Although I’m sure someone might be interested in the OIA’s I got by email from a very controversial Minister of the correspondence between their office and Mr Slater!!

    Opps, PS. I do have a professional work related email but that is accessed through the university server. And I never said I wasn’t aware of the Standard – please link to where I am supposed to have said that?

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  124. thedavincimode (6,711 comments) says:

    I am not an idiot

    Paraphrasing Nixon nursey?

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  125. redqueen (556 comments) says:

    @Longknives

    Remember, the Greens haven’t said anything about ‘Vote Positive’. They seem quite happy with this smear campaign (in its many facets).

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  126. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Judith (8,145 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 3:28 pm

    Jesus you write shit Judith! :)

    Are you really PhD material or you just a silly old granny that’s trying to pull our puds?

    If the answer is the first it’s a sad reflection on the standards of academic achievement in Godzone these days! :)

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  127. thedavincimode (6,711 comments) says:

    I know that was you nursey.

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  128. thedavincimode (6,711 comments) says:

    I know that was you again nursey.

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  129. freemark (569 comments) says:

    big bruv (13,435 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 10:18 am

    Did you not get picked for a rugby team once BB? I can’t otherwise see what is behind your incessant & quite frankly sad attacks. What was it that set you off..as I recall a player or someone said they were a great (the greatest) team???
    Let’s analyse that. There some reasonably compelling arguments that Rugby is the best sport out there:
    – It requires multiple skill, tactical & physical excellence, massive fitness levels, physical toughness, hand & foot coordination.
    – It is (in NZ at least) a hugely egalitarian game, and offers those with dedication & prowess multiple earning opportunities.
    – It is one of the few games where the players (& supporters) will socialise after a hard won match & after their careers end.
    – Women’s rugby is increasingly big, as is wheelchair rugby.
    -There is virtually no brutal violence in the game, on the field or amongst fans.

    It’s obvious that the AB’s are the most successful (greatest) team in arguably the greatest sport.
    So what’s your big issue?

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  130. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    He’s just jealous that D4J is such great mates with numerous ABs while he doesn’t get a look in.

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  131. ross411 (775 comments) says:

    kowtow (7,814 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 11:42 am
    Qatar and other Arab states aided by britain, France and the US are responsible for this.

    Where is the outrage?

    How much outrage are we supposed to exhibit? Should we all line up in the mornings and people can have us wait and display the prerequisite amount of it for their pet concern, before we can get about our day? There’s so much shit going on in the world today, that it is dishonest to pick something out no-one has ever heard of and expect them to fit it into their outrage schedule.

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  132. freemark (569 comments) says:

    Longknives (4,597 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 3:26 pm

    Yeah, I saw that. The whole Anna Paquin family connections is very disappointing. No doubt there will be hard discussions at the Norman dinner table around big bad Hollywood, copyright theft, Hobbit haters etc…yeah right…

    How do we search KB for either our own or someone else’s comments – just via the search box?

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  133. Grizz (597 comments) says:

    @ Judith “But lets just say Dotcom was the hacker – how does that make anything that Slater et al have done, any the more respectable?”

    I broadly agree with you. However it is happening across the political spectrum to a point where it has become like the Israel-Hammas situation where it has been reduced down to a battle to see who hold the moral high ground. Unless all sides stop, people will strongly argue the Cameron Slaters of this world are a necessary evil.

    I expect Slater to drip feed us more throughout the evening. In all honesty, Hager was stupid to take him on. Slater will now continue to chase after him until he is metaphorically harpooned. KDC and Slater are both big boys. This is now a side show. Politics has been thrown out the window. They have both entered the wide paddling pool of porridge and are beginning to fight it out. Some people around here will find that entertaining.

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  134. Longknives (4,690 comments) says:

    Freemark- Get out and see the World sometime. Rugby isn’t even a blip on the radar on the World Sports Scene…. Most of the planet have never even heard of the self-professed ‘Greatest Sports Team in the History of the Universe’!

    Now Gliding that’s a sport! Ain’t that right D4J?

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  135. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    You’ve used that line before, Longknives. Could you show me where the ABs referred to themselves in such terms?

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  136. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    I haven’t been to a jelly wrestle since “The House of Bamboo” burnt down Grizz.

    I’ll just pop out and mow the lawn then get some drinks and snacks in for the main match! :)

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  137. Longknives (4,690 comments) says:

    UK tour last year Mikey- It got quite a bit of publicity from the rather amused British Press (Pretty much confirming what arrogant morons the All Blacks are these days)

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  138. ross411 (775 comments) says:

    Judith (8,145 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 2:55 pm
    Sorry, I’m not convinced, and its all a bit distraction – none of it excuses or justifies what Slater and DPF et al have done.

    What have they done? After all, you have evidence right? Not opinion and speculation, you just write as you please?

    Judith (8,145 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 2:47 pm
    That’s his proof? That’s not solid evidence, its a whole heap of speculation. How very disappointing!

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  139. UrbanNeocolonialist (286 comments) says:

    While I can’t wait for KDC to be extradited, looking at the KDC/Wayne Tempero (his former security chief?) conversation snippet on Whaleoil looks like it could just as easily refer to some sort of employment, staff or matrimonial related dispute that KDC is involved in from earlier this year that Wayne was witness to. Needs more context to be proof of anything (and perhaps Slater has it).

    Suspect Slater is just trying to put the wind up anyone who might have more solid evidence of criminal activity – (and hopefully it works).

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  140. Grizz (597 comments) says:

    @Johnboy,

    Its porridge, not jelly. Scottish traditions are strong with me.

    However, Jelly is probably more KDCs style.

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  141. freemark (569 comments) says:

    LongKnives..
    I’ve been out there, I’ve seen a fair bit.
    Had a crazy night (2001? someone had spiked my nostril) in a French Restaurant in LA (with Karaoke lol). Big queue, the whole wank..someone heard my accent. I was literally dragged inside, to a great booth – wined, dined, hooked up with some crazy hot babes by the French owner. Because I was a NZer & by default an AB fan.

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  142. Longknives (4,690 comments) says:

    Freemark- For a couple of French Girls I would renounce my hatred of them and claim to be a fan as well!

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  143. dime (9,856 comments) says:

    Those dirty stinking shit head greens want to up my tax? Fucking communist assholes.

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  144. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Dime:

    Name a problem – any problem – and the Greens will tell you that the solution is higher taxes. However, not that the Greens would see it this way, they’re effectively socialising the problem.

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  145. freemark (569 comments) says:

    Haha, they were Valley Girls…we ended up in a 57 Chev which had been limousined out.
    But enough about me…why are you such a sad f**k over rugby & the AB’s again?

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  146. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Sorry Grizz.

    They used to advertise it as mud-wrestling but it was definitely jelly.

    The funniest bout I ever saw was when one pissed young patron jumped in the ring and was promptly relieved of his underpants and swung round and round by his willy by a frightening female.

    Every time I read one of Judith’s comments it somehow reminds me of that night! :)

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  147. goldnkiwi (1,280 comments) says:

    Hope people can get their money back on Hager’s book. ;) Channel Hodor.

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  148. Grizz (597 comments) says:

    @Johnboy, if you want to roll around in the mud with pigs you will get dirty and the pigs will enjoy it!

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  149. UrbanNeocolonialist (286 comments) says:

    Company tax at 28% Green proposed hike of top tax rate up from 33 to 40%. In the real world I am guessing that a large proportion of their supposed gains in tax take would be lost to people setting up more ‘tax efficient’ structures for receiving their income. Has it been costed by an economist?

    Could it even induce such a large number to switch their mode of earning that the tax take would drop? (a 5% gain might not be worth the bother, but a 12% gain could be).

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  150. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    That’s why most of us rotten swine keep popping back to KB Grizz! :)

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  151. RF (1,380 comments) says:

    redqueen. . 1.42pm.

    Moyer is a Useless commie green wanker. I saw the piano years ago and not bothered about going to his partners other films. Something about vampires so I am told.

    I guess the ginger commie and the wee sausage will be pleased to have these drop kicks visiting.

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  152. Fletch (6,295 comments) says:

    Perverse, and a bit sad, really.

    A gay man – a “performance artist” – is going to have sex with a different man every day for a year, to explore the emptiness in the gay hookup culture.

    Mischa Badasyan is a 26-year-old gay man who sometimes feels lonely and unfulfilled from the sexual interactions initiated by hookup apps like Grindr and sites like GayRomeo.

    Badasyan is also a Russian-born, Berlin-based performance artist who, beginning in September, will have sex with a different man every day for an entire year. The controversial piece, titled “Save the Date,” will explore the feeling of emptiness so pervasive in today’s hookup culture, especially for gay men.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/15/mischa-badasyan-_n_5680257.html?ir=Chicago

    According to the article, he already has a condom sponsor.

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  153. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    I hope he has a Proctosedyl sponsor as well Fletch! :)

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  154. ShawnLH (4,605 comments) says:

    “But lets just say Dotcom was the hacker – how does that make anything that Slater et al have done, any the more respectable?”

    Most people are intelligent enough to be able to apply their critical faculties to Hagar’s book and know that he is creating a narrative that is based on criminally obtained material, without any attempt to contact the people involved.

    Dotcon is a known thief and criminal who has an agenda to influence the election to his personal benefit.

    So we have a dishonest far left activist using criminally obtained material that is used to create propaganda, and a criminal thief trying to game the justice system for his benefit.

    It would take a monumentally stupid person not to see the obvious.

    Welcome to the stupid club Judith. You’re in good company with Ugly and Yoza.

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  155. freemark (569 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (4,272 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 5:25 pm

    Hammer, nail head, hit.

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  156. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Johnboy:

    This looks like fun:

    Russia has scored a direct hit by taking first and second places at the World Tank Biathlon, beating off challenges from Armenia, Kazakhstan, and China.

    The event held in the Moscow Region is based on the athletic biathlon, with each vehicle trying to finish the 20km course in the shortest time possible, while shooting at targets. They also face obstacles including water troughs and ridges.

    All teams competed in Russian T-72B tanks, except the Chinese team who used their own Type-96A tanks.

    Should we track down an unwanted tank and participate in the next competition?

    Compared to the America’s Cup, it’d be a much better to waste taxpayers’ money, but for a worthwhile cause!

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  157. Longknives (4,690 comments) says:

    Fletch- Most Gay men live a rampantly Promiscuous lifestyle anyway! Not really anything new for them…
    Giving me food for thought though- Maybe an ‘Art Project’ where I shag a different hot chick every day.
    Any sponsors?
    It’s purely for ‘Art’s Sake’ ,of course..

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  158. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    Freemark

    You posed some reasonable questions of me. Given that, I feel I should reply.

    “Did you not get picked for a rugby team once BB?” I played a lot of Rugby, I loved the game, I still do.

    “What was it that set you off”
    Again, that is a reasonable question. My dislike of the NZ National rugby team is multi layered. It starts at the top with the NZRU and their supreme arrogance. The way the NZRU have chased the dollar at the expense of what was once the pride of NZ rugby (the club game) is the most sickening. Footy clubs used to be the hub of so many communities, as a kid I could go down to my local club of a Saturday afternoon and depending on who was playing I might be able to watch two or three International players having a game for their club. Those days are long gone.
    As a youngster the NZ national team were humble people, they were educated because they worked for a living. Most of them where well grounded individuals. Today’s bunch (with one or two exceptions) are without doubt the thickest bunch of men to ever pull on a black jersey, some of them even struggle to string two words together.
    Our rugby media are another constant source of irritation. The media insist on pushing the bullshit line about the NZ national team being “world famous” when they are not. They insist on pushing the line that rugby is a global game when it is far from being global.
    Finally, and I suspect most importantly, the thing that I dislike most about the NZ national team is the way it brings out the very worst in Kiwis. Our collective arrogance re things Rugby far exceeds anything that I have ever seen in any other sport, or, from any other country. I was in the city the night of the RWC final in 2011 and I shudder to think what might have happened had there been a ref who had not already decided that the NZ team was going to win. Had the victory gone the way of the French (who deserved to win on the night) then it may well have resulted in a blood bath.

    Longknives has already dealt with the cringe worthy “greatest sporting team in the world” comment.

    I do not disagree with your comment about the merits of the game. That is why I still happen to love watching it at all levels up to and including the ITM cup. The “super fantastic made up 15″ is not of great interest to me and the deeds of the National team even less.

    Women’s rugby is crap. I refuse to be forced into taking it seriously just because they wear a black jersey. The Shelia’s team seem to have taken on-board all of the extreme arrogance associated with the Men’s team without having done anything at all to earn it.

    Wheel Chair ‘Rugby’ is not rugby at all. It does not even compare to the real thing and is simply marketed as rugby in NZ so it gets noticed. I think it is hilarious how they have managed to con so many people into accepting it as a form of rugby when it is far more aligned to a form of Basket Ball.

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  159. ShawnLH (4,605 comments) says:

    The snap Colmar poll is revealing. Hagar’s book has bombed. Only 28% believe the book. Most either don’t know or don’t believe Hagar’s narrative.

    28% would be about the size of the Left and the anti-JK crowd. So if all Hagar is doing preaching to the converted, he has failed.

    And if (yeah right) Hagar’s intention was to influence the election in the Left’s favor, he has made a mistake. Releasing the book this far out from the election means that National has a chance to turn the fire back onto Labour and the Left, and start revealing their own dirty tricks, which is now happening.

    Hagar though he had a drone strike. It turns out all he has is a water pistol.

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  160. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    This was the first comment (which attracted a grumpy response from Lynn Prentice) on today’s “open mike” thread at The Standard:

    greg
    17 August 2014 at 1:01 am

    Karol, can you accept that parties from the left have engaged in smear politics in recent election campaigns?

    [lprent: If you want to ask one of my authors a question, then make it quite specific and explain why they should bother answering. And read the policy before I wind up having to ban you.

    In this case remember that karol isn't a member of any political party. She probably has better things to do (like writing detailed posts) rather than extracting information to a lazy dickhead who hasn't bothered to put any effort into making their question specific.

    If I see another "pig-fucker" question from the ACT playbook (why you idiots all sound the same is beyond me), I will kick you off the site. This is your warning. ]

    I mean, seriously, wow.

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  161. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    We could buy a slightly used M1A2 and still fuck all them commy fuckers Nostra.

    Be like putting a Hummer up against a Lada! :)

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  162. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I don’t think that Longknives really dealt with that comment, BB. I can find a reference to Graham Henry saying last year he thought the current ABs were the best team to ever play the game and Stuart Lancaster (England coach) saying he thought the ABs were the best team in world sport. Neither of these comments appear to be what Longknives was on about.
    Women’s rugby is great, and our team are even more dominant than the ABs – at least up to their recent world cup failure.

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  163. ShawnLH (4,605 comments) says:

    Prentice is clearly scared that the attention will turn to him (the secret trust guy) and the Standard. He should be.

    And look at the difference between him and his ilk and DPF. David has allowed Hagar fans to rant freely on KB, while this creep makes threats to ban at the mere hint of dissent.

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  164. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    Is Judith’s “Ol Boy” LPrent? :)

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  165. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Johnboy:

    This video gives you a taste of the action – all 93 minutes and 36 seconds worth of it.

    I suppose the United Nations would be happy to sponsor these war games if they replaced the real thing!

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  166. Longknives (4,690 comments) says:

    Well said Bruv!

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  167. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Most people are intelligent enough to be able to apply their critical faculties to Hagar’s book and know that he is creating a narrative that is based on criminally obtained material, without any attempt to contact the people involved.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/people_sometimes_say_jerky_things_in_e-mails.html/comment-page-1#comment-1382742

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  168. freemark (569 comments) says:

    Hey Ugly.
    You being an approved ( ie ideologically crippled) commenter over at LiP4Rent’s place and all, how about you ask how many (not who) on certain posts is a taxpayer funded Labour/Green/IMP staffer or MP? We won’t get the truth, but it will be interesting to compare the results with forthcoming information….
    I’ve figured out who our dear Judith is over there I think (typing with left hand) and a couple of others, but I think it will be fun to have the dishonesty exposed even more.
    You being about Truth & all that…

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  169. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    Woah tonights polls scare me.
    Why the hell doesnt National do something against foreign speculators in the housing market that would stop the rise of Winston and stop any upwards Labour movement

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  170. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The man at the centre of the Dirty Politics firestorm sits on a leafy street in Tel Aviv, Israel, just a block from the shores of the Mediterranean, sipping a blended mint lemonade.

    “What I am witnessing in Tel Aviv is a vibrant, free and open democracy of tolerance,” he says.

    “From the hotel I am staying at 100 metres across the road there’s a gay beach and the gay beach is 200 metres from the Orthodox Jewish beach – I bet you there’s not a gay beach in Gaza.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10391846/Blogging-money-and-blurred-lines

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  171. freemark (569 comments) says:

    big bruv (13,436 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    So you have some issues with the NZRFU executive, and are a glass half empty type – ok, got that.
    Your other comments regarding “thick”, & the RWC Final 2011 are pretty sad/bullshit IMO.
    I’m no sycophant of the team, however your analysis is pretty fucked up I reckon.
    But each to their own…

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  172. Fletch (6,295 comments) says:

    “What I am witnessing in Tel Aviv is a vibrant, free and open democracy of tolerance,” he says.

    “From the hotel I am staying at 100 metres across the road there’s a gay beach and the gay beach is 200 metres from the Orthodox Jewish beach – I bet you there’s not a gay beach in Gaza.”

    And what does that tell you about Israel UT? And about the lack of freedom in Arab countries?

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  173. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    One News Colmar poll:

    National 50 (-2.0)
    Labour 26 (-2.0)
    Greens 11 (+1)
    NZ First 5 (+1)
    Internet-Mana 4 (+2)
    Conservative 2 (n/c)
    Maori 1 (n/c)
    Act 1 (n/c)
    United Future 0

    3 News Reid Research poll

    National 47.5 (-1.9)
    Labour 29 (+2.3)
    Greens 13 (+0.6)
    NZ First 4.6 (+0.3)
    Internet-Mana 2.0 (-0.2)
    Conservative 2.5 (-0.2)
    Maori 0.8 (-0.3)
    Act 0.3 (+0.2)
    United Future 0.2 (n/c)

    Hard to take much from those with mixed results and movements.

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  174. Longknives (4,690 comments) says:

    “Your other comments regarding “thick”, & the RWC Final 2011 are pretty sad/bullshit IMO.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XBqetaCfgo

    The RWC ‘final’ in 2011 was the most laughably one-sided refereeing performance I have ever seen. Have a look at the Kaino incident where he throws the ball away and tell me how France didn’t get a penalty there? That final was a pathetic joke..The terrified referee was the only thing keeping the allegedly ‘invincible’ All Blacks in the game!

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  175. goldnkiwi (1,280 comments) says:

    I had a thought regarding NZ and the rest of the world when I saw on the msn the raid on Cliff Richard’s house, I believe that he was known to not be at home at the time nor did I read that he had an armed body guard.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/cliff-richard-heard-about-police-raid-on-his-uk-home-from-the-bbc/story-fnb64oi6-1227027125153

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  176. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Wow – D4J has just managed to reach a new low.

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  177. goldnkiwi (1,280 comments) says:

    Breaking news, Internet/Mana (why does Internet come first?) states uncategorically that they have had their sites hacked too :)

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  178. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Oh dear, how could National have possibly dropped?

    DPF and Slater – you’ve clearly dropped the ball and aren’t working the team hard enough – if you aren’t careful you’ll end up with the same result as the All Black’s did.

    I do note that thor42 is in here working hard sticking to the plan – I do hope he gets extra for working on a Sunday. And even nickb was putting in some extra hours – still the plan is ticking along and the German was put in his place, for about two seconds before everyone read the clayton’s evidence and realised that Slater hasn’t actually finished constructing this, his great defence.

    Opps, did I say defence? Sorry, we all know there is no defence – I meant constructing his excuse for why it was okay for him to accept 28 GB of hacked material and use it, when it wasn’t for Hager.

    sigh … its all so very exciting isn’t it! Okay dinners ready! You can go back to playing with yourselves. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

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  179. Other_Andy (2,613 comments) says:

    Cameron Slater’s computer hacked
    David Farrar’s system hacked
    Rodney MP Mark Mitchell’s office burgled and his laptop and cellphones stolen
    Judith Collins husband’s office burgled and his laptop accessed.
    Next…….

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  180. goldnkiwi (1,280 comments) says:

    Louise Nicolas’s story TV One 8.30. I hope she had some input into it.

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  181. freemark (569 comments) says:

    Longknives (4,605 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 6:34 pm

    I’m not sure what you’re on.
    “Had the victory gone the way of the French (who deserved to win on the night) then it may well have resulted in a blood bath”
    I went to the semi at Eden Park in 2011 when we beat Aussie. The reaction & general camaraderie after the match between the fans (commiseration with the Wallabies, congratulations to the AB’s) was incredible. No bloodbath.
    I remember the early morning in Auckland 1999 when we lost (a semi?)..the country was gutted..no bloodbath.
    2003..similar thing. No bloodbath, no riots, no violence…we lost, the guys & the country sucked it up.
    2007..in Aust on conference then flying home after the loss. Sadness, respect, no big blaming of the ref or players.
    I was in downtown Auckland watching the final in 2011. It was close, we won. We deserved to win all things being equal. There would have been no bloodbath anywhere.
    That’s why it is a beautiful game..the players, the fans. Like I said that is what makes it arguably the greatest game.
    But if you’d rather “blame the ref” for the consistently No. 1 ranked team in the World (against all opposition) winning the RWC 2011..
    Go for it.

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  182. Longknives (4,690 comments) says:

    Where and when did I ever mention “Bloodbath” champ?

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  183. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    Freemark

    Clearly you have a problem with anybody who is not a flag waving, unquestioning supporter of the NZ National Rugby team.

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  184. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    freemark
    You have got two of the All Blacks haters confused. It was BB who claimed there would have been a bloodbath if NZ had lost the 2011 final.

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  185. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    goldnkiwi

    If she has had any input into it then you can be sure it will not reflect what actually happened.

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  186. freemark (569 comments) says:

    Sorry, BB, LongKnives, getting confused.
    I’m no “flag waving, unquestioning supporter” of anyone.
    Neither am I a hater of a fairly useful & successful National Sports Team because the admin and/or refs are not perfect.
    Just saying…

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  187. Longknives (4,690 comments) says:

    For me the lowest moment was Ali ‘I’m a megastar’ Williams mocking and sneering at the French at the infamous Press Conference a few days before the final. The All Blacks used to be respectful and courteous about their opponents- That incident was bloody cringeworthy and made me ashamed to be a New Zealander. How anybody could ever support a team with that arrogant tool in it is beyond me…

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  188. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    More details emerge about the evidential case (so far) against Gable Tostee:

    “No, no, no … I just want to go home”.

    These were allegedly the last words of a terrified Warriena “Rrie” Wright as she tried to flee Gold Coast playboy Gable Tostee.

    The Herald on Sunday can reveal details of the police case against Tostee, who faced court yesterday charged with murdering Wright only hours after they met on internet dating site Tinder.

    Police will allege Wright, 26, had been violently assaulted, was “in fear of her life” and was trying to escape when she plunged to her death from the balcony of Tostee’s 14th-floor apartment in the Avalon tower last Friday.

    The interesting part of the article, for me, was this:

    Police will be relying on High Court findings in other cases of people fleeing in fear and dying to make the murder charge stick.

    That suggests a possible point of distinction from this case.

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  189. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    Longknives

    You forget the way that the NZ team (the self styled greatest sports team in the world) has managed to convince the rugby authorities that all opposition teams have to stand there and pay reverential respect to a stone age rain dance.

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  190. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    Nostradamus

    No mate, he can go a lot lower than that.

    But hey, as long as he is stalking you and giving me a break for a change the I am all smiles. :)

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  191. freemark (569 comments) says:

    “That incident was bloody cringeworthy and made me ashamed to be a New Zealander.”
    I’m a bit ashamed that you are a New Zealander as well.
    But good to agree with you.

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  192. dad4justice (8,137 comments) says:

    “No mate, he can go a lot lower than that.”

    Oh yes you can Graham when you posting them emails I allegedly sent you lol. Or are you showing us all you are the lowest of low and just a wind up merchant?

    Nostra I am glad you realized yet another mistake over on the Crewe thread. And who said a pathological hatred does not blind the infected? lol.

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  193. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Big Bruv:

    I’m beginning to understand how you feel about being the target of D4J’s creepy obsession.

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  194. dad4justice (8,137 comments) says:

    Nostra did you say sorry to Rowan over on the Crewe thread? lol.

    Attention bigot blouse – can you please post asap the alleged emails I have sent you. Thank you.

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  195. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    Nostradamus

    The only time it is really creepy is when he gets into one of his “I want to meet you” moods. I swear the dude is gay sometimes.

    The rest of the time it does not bother me at all. Having said that, it’s bloody great that he is giving me a rest at the moment and seems to have moved his attention onto you.

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  196. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    D4J:

    Don’t misrepresent the discussion on the Crewe thread.

    Rowan said to Muggins:

    Recognise this, now who is it that has the obsession with dogs, are you now into bestiality as well as showing girls where to put there fingers!!

    I thought that was a pretty appalling to say. Do you agree, or not, D4J?

    By the way, I’ve noticed your tendency to edit comments, including by addressing subsequent comments by others in a way that makes it look like your amended text preceded their comment. That’s intellectually dishonest.

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  197. Floyd60 (92 comments) says:

    It’s time to lift your game guys.

    This reported by Stuff today http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10392956/Jason-Ede-still-has-Beehive-access

    ^Key insists Slater was a “force of nature into himself” with “sources all over the show.” ^

    Look familiar David?

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  198. dad4justice (8,137 comments) says:

    Nostradumus I don’t know if I am “intellectually dishonest” but if you feel I am then fine, make yet another complaint about me to the blog owner, however what is the term for a blogger to have claimed in his possession threatening and sexually implicit emails sent by me, which is simply not true and malicious hearsay?

    I look forward to your response?

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  199. KevinH (1,219 comments) says:

    Hagar categorically denied that Dotcom was the source of the hacked emails on Q&A this morning instead referring to the “source” choosing to release more emails at his/her discretion. This would be unlikely because the “source” would face legal action almost immediately, therefore further hacked emails would be leaked third hand, possibly to the Herald using anonymity.
    Cam Slater claims he knows who that source is but has not publicly named that person, nevertheless he won’t spare the rod when the time comes to name that person. It actually could be Joe Average, hacking a gmail account isn’t overly difficult if you can crack the password either by design or by luck. An experienced hacker could show you how to do it but may not assist or participate.
    Presently the Police may choose to leave the fracas to the civil courts however the burglary of Mark Mitchell’s office and hacking of other party websites including espionage at KB paints a more sinister picture that requires intervention from the appropriate govt. agency, to prevent it escalating to a national security level.

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  200. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    D4J:

    make yet another complaint about me to the blog owner

    Do you have evidence that I’ve complained about you to DPF? I know for a fact that I never have, but since you clearly know better, then produce the evidence.

    I complained to DPF about Rowan’s comment because I thought it was completely out of line – and, in fact, I’ve seen DPF give out demerits for comments along precisely those lines. I note you refuse to express a view on whether you thought Rowan’s comment was acceptable. Why is that, I wonder?

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  201. dad4justice (8,137 comments) says:

    “I complained to DPF about Rowan’s comment”

    I detest a NARK! I will never speak to you again. Your type make me feel nauseous.

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  202. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    I have to admit that Mark Mitchell isn’t a name that means much to me. Looking at National’s website, he’s down towards the bottom of the list of MPs. Can someone tell me what, if anything, has he achieved in national politics? Why would someone want to break into his office and hack into his emails?

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  203. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Nostradamus
    That was either a really smart move or a skilful foundation for a wager. A fiver he reneges.

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  204. Pete George (23,479 comments) says:

    Why would someone want to break into his office and hack into his emails?

    Cam Slater is a fan boy of Mitchell’s (who has been critical of Dotcom). So Slater is joining dots a bit like Hager.

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  205. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    big bruv
    ‘the self styled greatest sports team in the world’
    You keep saying this but I can’t find any quote that backs it up.

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  206. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    “I detest a NARK! I will never speak to you again”

    You lucky, lucky bastard!

    I get the impression that those around old D4J must have to walk on egg shells. Clearly he find it hard to control his emotions, he also displays classic narcissistic traits. No doubt he is completely convinced the world revolves around him.

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  207. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Nostradamus
    Mark Mitchell was supposedly at a function when he overheard Dotcom vow and declare that he would destroy the government. He was called to give evidence in the Banks case. Much of his evidence was suppressed. Dotcom denied the allegations.

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  208. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Not so fast BB. My wager immediately got a down tick. It could only have come from Dad expressing his anger and frustration at the inevitable conclusion that he will succumb

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  209. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    D4J:

    I will never speak to you again.

    I see, so you’ll never speak to me again, because I complained to DPF about a comment alleging bestiality and paedophilia? Well, if that’s the sort of comment that you think is acceptable, D4J, then you live by a very interesting moral code indeed. Frankly, I don’t think DPF wants to get dragged (as a third party) into defamation proceedings over comments like that. I respect DPF for the time and effort he puts into his blog, so I’m doing him a favour – I couldn’t give a fuck about you and your creepy stalking obsessions, D4J, quite frankly.

    Nookin:

    A fiver he reneges.

    You should ask D4J for tips – he’s apparently very successful when it comes to one-way gambling bets!

    Thanks for the information about Mitchell’s involvement in the Banks case – I wasn’t aware of that. Presumably he was some kind of character witness?

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  210. dad4justice (8,137 comments) says:

    “You lucky, lucky bastard!”

    And the only thing I will ever ask you bigot blouse is, can you post the threatening and sexually implicit emails I have allegedly sent you, so we can let the readers on here know who is a pathological liar and who is an honest bloke on the receiving end of a long malicious smear campaign. Thank you, this has gone on long enough. Post them and I leave here. If you can’t then you leave. It’s as simple as that.

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  211. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Oh God, I’ve been hacked ….

    …off with the way things (politics) are going in this country for quite some time.

    (Just keeping up with the lasted trends in ‘lookee at me’ politics!) :-)

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  212. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Mark Mitchell

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/4810730/In-the-line-of-duty

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10085321/Kim-Dotcom-vowed-to-destroy-Banks-and-Key

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  213. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    When asked, “What’s your favourite mythical creature?”…….

    …..the answer has to be, “Those happy women in Tampax adverts.”

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  214. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Nostradamus (3,063 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 7:31 pm

    You need to know the history behind that comment Nostradamus.

    Muggins, using a different name on another site, tried to justify evidence given where a witness stated one of the girls involved had told the witness, the father had shown her how to insert fingers into her private parts. Muggins went on a tirade trying to show how it would have been completely above board a father showing his daughter how to do that.

    If was not an off the cuff remark by Rowan, there was a lot of history behind it.

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  215. Johnboy (16,077 comments) says:

    You haven’t been hacked Judith darling. They’re just called wrinkles. Stop looking in the mirror you poor old bag! :)

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  216. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    This is what Mitchell said about Dotcom in Parliament

    “http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/debates/debates/speeches/50HansS_20140416_00000862/mitchell-mark-general-debate

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  217. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Nookin (3,110 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 8:11 pm

    Kim Dotcom vows to destroy Banks and Key, and both of them have demonstrated they feel the same way.

    Damned if I can understand the difference (apart from the fact that one should definitely not be in the country) – however, people vowing to destroy others that disagree with them, isn’t exactly a rare occurrence – isn’t that exactly what Slater is trying to do to KDC as well?

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  218. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Judith:

    Ok – fair enough. I know nothing about that history, obviously, or which Kiwiblog commentators have been involved in that history.

    My reason for taking further action – and, whatever D4J might think, at least I’m open about it – was because I’ve observed that DPF has given out squillions of demerits on Bain threads, such as this one, including to Muggins and Rowan for very similar personalised comments.

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  219. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Nostradamus (3,064 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 8:24 pm

    Yes, it gets very heated and without knowing the history, the comment would seem a bit too much.

    Personally things were so much better when one could slap the other with a glove and fight it out at dawn with swords. I wonder why they changed that tradition – seemed like a much more efficient method ! :P

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  220. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Nookin:

    That’s an extraordinary statement:

    MARK MITCHELL (National—Rodney) : I stand in this House today to make a statement. Late last year my family had been at a property in my electorate where my stepson had been testing his rally car in preparation for competing in his father’s memorial rally. Later that evening my wife, Peggy, and I attended a barbecue at the same property. While there I was confronted by Mr Kim Dotcom, who was also a guest. I can only describe the conversation as chilling. Direct threats were made by Mr Dotcom towards our Prime Minister. He stated that he could and would destroy the Prime Minister and that he already had members of our Parliament working with him to achieve this. We left immediately.

    I did not believe Mr Dotcom’s claims that members of our New Zealand Parliament were actively collaborating with him. A good Opposition’s job is to challenge the Government, to ensure that the Ministers remain laser-focused on their portfolios, to challenge policy ideas, and to present an alternative Government. I watched in amazement as it became apparent that members of Parliament were collaborating with Mr Dotcom at his mansion in Coatesville.

    I have now had time to reflect on the abusive behaviour of Mr Dotcom at the function I attended in my electorate last year. The violence of the threats towards our Prime Minister has not left me. Today I felt that it was important to place these matters on the record in this House. I believe that the people of this country are beginning to question the real motives of Mr Dotcom. From my own experience, he is a man who uses threats and intimidation on people to get what he wants. I wait to see the next instruction or order given from the Dotcom mansion to members of this House. Thank you.

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  221. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Just in case anybody was struck by the sincerity of Mr Hager in denying that Dotcom was his source, here is an extract from an article that he wrote on leaking and the lengths to which leakers and journalists need to go in order to ensure that sources cannot be traced. Whether Dotcom was the source, directly or indirectly or was in any way party to or an influential actor in the unlawful taking of information remains to be seen. What cannot possibly be avoided is the conclusion that whoever it is, there will be a very intricate shield of deniability. The link to the article is at the end.

    “Passing on the information safely

    As secrecy has grown, so too have systems within organisations to try to keep the secrets in. But even in the most security obsessed organisation, common sense will help you to leak information safely.

    Obviously you should not meet a journalist in the café next to your work or in their newsroom. Once you trust them, meeting at your or their home may be simplest, or in an out-of-the-way café. The wide availability of photocopiers in the last 20 years has made it much easier to leak papers. Usually it is not a good idea to leak original papers – go for ‘sharing’ rather than ‘stealing’ (unless you have copies of papers that no one in the organisation knows you have). The best option may be to take some papers away from work during lunch or overnight and copy them at a library or copy shop. Because of scratches on the glass, photocopiers sometimes leave little marks that could allow the leaked document to be traced back to your office photocopier. If you do photocopy at work, remember to take out the original when you finish. (This is by far the most frequent slip made by nervous people copying at the office!)

    You may want to take identifying marks off documents, such as fax marks or e-mail details at the top or bottom or pages and handwritten notes and underlining. Often, though, this information can be important for verifying the authenticity of the document or revealing the date it was sent or received. It is best to remove this information only when essential or after it has been viewed.

    If the document is a numbered copy, remove the numbers from every page. The simplest thing may be to copy the papers quickly first, then later take off all the marks and photocopy them again. Be aware that fingerprints can be detected on paper. If in doubt, allow the journalist (and maybe their editor) to view the documents, write down what they want to use and maybe photograph a page as an illustration – but on the understanding that they then give the papers back to you without taking copies. If you are the source, you have a right to control how the information is used.

    Never give away your only copy of any document. No matter how important a document may be, sometimes material gets lost. Always try to keep a back-up copy in a safe location. Sometimes it may be worth ensuring that copies are distributed widely.

    Speaking from experience, if you take these precautions then, when the information comes out in the news, it is very hard for the source ever to be traced. We have been involved in many leaks, large and small, and the people who provided the information have always remained anonymous. Of course you should be very careful and, at the time of the publicity, mentally prepared so that you do not give away your role. But there is no need to feel paranoid. Information leaks happen quite often. The organisations concerned may go through the motions of a ‘witch hunt’ to prove to their superiors they are serious about security, but then things settle down again. Remember all the famous leakers in history who have helped their countries and got away with it.” (http://www.nickyhager.info/a-brief-guide-to-leaking/)

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  222. big bruv (13,727 comments) says:

    D4J

    You have said you are never coming back before. Apart from your two year absence (just where were you?) you cannot help but stick around this place stalking me and others.

    Oh, have you given Richie his car back yet?

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  223. dad4justice (8,137 comments) says:

    And the only thing I will ever ask you bigot blouse is, can you post the threatening and sexually implicit emails I have allegedly sent you, so we can let the readers on here know who is a pathological liar and who is an honest bloke on the receiving end of a long malicious smear campaign. Thank you, this has gone on long enough. Post them and I leave here. If you can’t then you leave. It’s as simple as that.

    Come on Graham come clean, you owe it to the kiwiblog community.

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  224. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Here is another interesting snippet from the article to which I referred in my previous post.

    It seems that it is perfectly in order for a leaker to point a journalist in the right direction for the purposes of making an Official information request.

    Unfortunately, that rule only seems to apply to people in employment who are betraying the trust and confidence of a National Government employer or to members of left-wing parties.

    For some reason, it cannot apply, by definition, to a National Party minister who, assuming the allegations to be correct, simply pointed a blogger/journalist in the right direction in order to establish that the leader of the opposition may well be telling porkies. I have some difficulty reconciling the principles here. There seems to me to be a degree of selectivity about the application of the principle.

    The principle of disclosure seemed to work perfectly well when said MP (albeit at the time in a different capacity) disclosed certain briefing notes for the purposes of establishing that a National leader of the opposition might be telling porkies.

    Is a theme starting to emerge here?
    .
    Here is the quote:

    “Sometimes just suggesting some questions that should be asked and who should be quizzed about a topic is sufficiently useful information. If you are wary of leaking documents, simply suggesting what file should be sought from government agencies under the Official Information Act can be useful.”

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  225. jcuk (668 comments) says:

    Nostra … there was a tank for sale in working condition, low milage, apart from the gun on TradeMe last week :)

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  226. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Judith says
    “… isn’t that exactly what Slater is trying to do to KDC as well?”

    Nookin says

    Absolutely. The difference is that Slater is being pilloried and Dotcom is buying his way into government with squillions of illicitly earned dollars and the blessing of the Greens and Labour. Oh, and I wouldn’t have Slater as a figurehead in a political party, either.

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  227. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Big Bruv:

    you [D4J] cannot help but stick around this place stalking me and others.

    Ah well, if D4J spends all of his time stalking people on Kiwiblog, then perhaps the local community will feel safe. So, in a funny kind of way, you’re performing a worthwhile public service. You’re welcome to D4J – I don’t particularly enjoy being the focus of his creepy stalking obsessions, but at least I’ll never have to meet him in person (unless I visit Christchurch).

    jcuk:

    Seriously? Did the ad say what happened to the gun?

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  228. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Nookin (3,113 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 8:44 pm

    For some reason, it cannot apply, by definition, to a National Party minister who, assuming the allegations to be correct, simply pointed a blogger/journalist in the right direction in order to establish that the leader of the opposition may well be telling porkies. I have some difficulty reconciling the principles here. There seems to me to be a degree of selectivity about the application of the principle.

    But what about when that minister points a blogger in the right direction in order to apply for an OIA that allows the blogger to capture a document that he would have no way of knowing it existed otherwise, that would allow him to attack a member of the community (not an MP) – How would that be? Right or wrong?

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  229. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Nookin (3,114 comments) says:
    August 17th, 2014 at 8:58 pm

    Money or dirt – they are both attempting to buy something that should not be ‘for sale’.

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  230. stigie (1,109 comments) says:

    Could Bruv and D4J kiss and make up or could that be a cockup ?…just askin !~

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  231. Nostradamus (3,246 comments) says:

    Stigie:

    If it’s a cock-up you’re looking for, then Hagley Park (in Christchurch) is apparently the place to be – not sure how Big Bruv would feel about that though!

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  232. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Judith

    “Personally things were so much better when one could slap the other with a glove and fight it out at dawn with swords. I wonder why they changed that tradition – seemed like a much more efficient method !”

    We have something similar. The theory is that if A shits in B’s nest then B can shit in A’s nest. It’s called gotcha politics but seems to be going out of favour. Maybe bitch-slapping will be revived.

    Your 8.44 post.

    Not enough info and so I cant present an argument except in the abstract.

    Disclosure/leaking is prima facie improper unless the discloser/leaker has the authority to make the disclosure. See Helen Clark’s comment that as Prime Minister, she cannot, by definition, leak.

    Breach of authority or breach of confidence can be justified in order to prevent wrong-doing. We immediately have conflicting interests and incongruent values. We either have to create a balance or find a transcending value. This value is “the public interest”.

    Usually, leaking or disclosures are considered in the context of government members or civil servants. However the principle is not restricted solely to government. The Protected Disclosure Act applies to the private sector as well, by way of example.

    A civil servant may well be justified in breaching confidence by disclosing information pertaining to somebody not in government. I set out the parameters in a post responding to one of your comments on the “jerk” thread.

    Rationalising issues in this way, and responding to your proposition:
    1. If the minister had the authority to release the information, then no question of illegality could arise.
    2. The minister’s motives may well be assessed by those standing in judgement of the minister (the public in this case) and the minister stands to be assessed anywhere on a continuum starting at gratuitous vindictiveness at one end and the performance of an obligatory obligation of disclosure in the public interest at the other end. This is a moral call in the absence of any illegality.

    In the case where a private individual is involved, there would obviously have to be some questions as to the public interest in the particular case. I am not convinced that there should be a higher standard. The same standard should apply but I am conscious that MPs do not seem to attract the same protection as private individuals in the skirmish of politics (esp defamation cases).

    3. If the minister did not, in the ordinary course of events, have the authority to make the disclosure (e.g., it was not her portfolio) then surely exactly the same principles apply to that minister as apply to the persons that Mr Hager recognises as deserving protection in the public interest? There cannot be any difference. If the public interest requires disclosure then why does it matter whether the discloser is an MP or minister and a non-government person is the subject of the disclosure?

    The major problem is defining what is or is not in the public interest. As I understand the position, however, the allegation against Collins (if that is to whom you are referring) relates to the suggestion by her that Slater make a specific OIR to the SIS concerning briefing notes for the then leader of the opposition. If that is the case, then she cannot possibly be criticised for doing so if that same leader of the opposition, at a time that he was a member of the government, used his position as a minister to make disclosures for exactly the same purpose as did Collins.

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  233. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    I guess this will make Laila more at home, given her aversion to bulk and pendulity.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2014/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503581&objectid=11310028

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  234. Nostalgia-NZ (5,119 comments) says:

    I think you’re absolutely wrong Nookin on the discloser/leaker argument. Compliance to the BORA will precede any ‘precedent’ of what another Minister in another Government may have done by way of disclosure or leaks. In some ways that is why I look forward to the DB JR, set, as it is, to spell out Ministerial precedence compared to that a citizen’s rights under TBORA. It may not be DB’s interest for the JR to proceed compared to a settlement, but it’s surely important for TBORA to be analysed by The Courts to confirm or reject that Executive power is unbridled and not subject to the Law.

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  235. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Which particular section in BORA are you looking at? Surely not freedom of expression? I cannot dee how the Act fits into the argument. You are right when you say that what a minister once did is not necessarily determinative of the public interest.it is however a reasonable guide. The main point is that you cannot apply the same principle to substantially the same facts and come up with a different argument without an explanation.

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  236. goldnkiwi (1,280 comments) says:

    Brave woman that Louise Nicholas!!

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  237. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nookin
    My question was not referring to anything in hagers book but in fact a situation where a minister gave details to a blogger directing them to alter the wording of an oia request so they could capture a document that the blooger had no knowledge of, nor had any way of knowing it existed unless told by that minister. In order to make that knowledge known to the public due to the propriety rules of their position the minister had to make sure someone asked for the exact right details in their request. Something no one could do without having knowledge of what they were seeking.

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  238. Nostalgia-NZ (5,119 comments) says:

    You just need to consider privacy, due process and fairness Nookin to see how the BORA applies when a Minister makes any decision – especially to leak details of a ’cause’ they may feel strongly about. A Minister has a temporary role, the Law and Executive Power do not.

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  239. Gulag1917 (878 comments) says:

    No, Muslims are not taking over the world
    The global Muslim population is projected to grow at a slower pace than it did during the previous two decades
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/feb/11/islam-population

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  240. goldnkiwi (1,280 comments) says:

    Judith (8,155 comments) says:

    August 17th, 2014 at 10:48 pm

    Caps lock broken? Sounds like some other OIA requests I can think of having been sought by you ‘Judith’.

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  241. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    On my tablet golden. Hard to use without a keyboard especially for someone that is used to using an ordinary keyboard for more than forty years. Nice to see that the most important things in your little world are typing mistakes I make. Of all the things you could contribute to a public form, that is all you can come up with. Says a lot about your life, doesn’t it?

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  242. UrbanNeocolonialist (286 comments) says:

    Louise Nicolas’s. Horrible story, but timing of documentary is obvious politicing by those campaigning to try to elevate “rape culture” into an election issue.

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  243. Left Right and Centre (2,971 comments) says:

    All Blacks vs Wallabies was boring forgettable rubbish.

    Prime / Sky commentators – boring old fart hand-wringing deathly serious humourless humdrum dumb-bum numb-cum nincompoop cretins. Ian Smith – fuckin hell. Justin Marshall struggling away with the English lingo – give me a break. Mr Party Man Grant Fox ? Sheesh. Deathly stone faced grave toned gravy train wowsers – is it a rugby game or a funeral ? Is it life or death ? Is it a serious defcon four emergency ?

    It’s in no way enjoyable. Need Martin Devlin or CGW crew to do it. Straight bat straight-laced lily white pure as the driven snow pollyanna commentary for kindy kids – fa-a-a-a-ark that shee-ite matey-po-tat-ey. I should’ve mixed it half and half with Hauraki or something. Especially when the game aint happening – need some comic relief. Not a hope in hell from those bozos. Are they told to be dull as dishwater ? How would they really call it if given an unfettered green light ? Where do I get these cool words from like unfettered ? I didn’t even know I *knew* that fucking word ffs.

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  244. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Nostalgia
    BORA is not an all-embracing spiritual mantra. Before you can invoke it, you need to point to a particular section.
    Judith, if a staff member wenr about that process Hager would feel well pleased. It is exactly what he is advocating in the passage I mentioned. Create deniability, destroy the links. Protect the source. The public interest transcends. You cannot have it both ways. If the information should be out there, you cannot complain that the trigger was a minister and not an employee or opposition member. Once a principle is in place it applies across the board. Hager cannot have i any oher way. The fact that he is ring to apply different rules to different people simply illusrates his hypocrisy.

    Your real argument is where, on the continuum, we pass the point that the public interest demands disclosure. Journalists do not make that assessment if there is a story in it. As an indication, Goff was wrong to release the MFAT notes because he was intercepting communications between the leader of the opposition and a foreign state. It was cheap, political point scoring. Whoever released the Kitteridge report was wrong. It was coming out anyway and the only reason for the least appears to be some personal gratification. Person A was wrong to release the MFAT reforms and Goff was wrong to make use of them. They did not come within the parameters of protected disclosures. The state service is obliged to serve the government of the day and not impose its own will. So, you will see that I think a leaker and a journalist have a higher barrier to climb before a leak or disclosure can be justified.

    Back to your proposition. If we are talking SIS briefing notes, most people know that the leader of the opposition is briefed. Its not hard to find that out. So, if the leader of the opposition is making demonstably false statements for the sole purpose of blackening the name of the goverment, is a minister wrong to suggest to a blogger “i suggest you ask for certain briefing notes”?
    Is it fair that a person stands condemned because another MP, someone in a special position, is not telling the truth? Especially where that special position would, in the mind of the public, give the MP inside information? If it is not fair, the the dishonest behaiviour of the MP and the consequential unfairness justify the leak? To some extend this is hypothetical because it it hard to decide who is telling the truth, here — goff or the SIS fellow — but you catch the drift.

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  245. Nostalgia-NZ (5,119 comments) says:

    S27 Nookin. It’s far from Natural Justice for the Executive to enter into an agreement with a petitioner along certain lines, then to not only change the ‘agreement’ but to deliberately undermine the process by publicly attempting to discredit both the petitioner and the agent working to investigate and report on the petition. Remembering that the applicant can not be responsible for a report that he or she is not writing. Not only that, it’s not due process or Natural Justice to promote a media campaign against both the investigator and the applicant, with, in the case of the applicant, not informing them of the ‘work’ being done behind the scenes or just basically ensuring that all parties are kept informed. Collins whipped up a storm against Binnie and DB without informing either party fairly, in fact deliberately keeping it secret. The result was a ‘fresh’ scratching the surface report which concluded that Binnie, had he used the novel processes argued by a Lawyer – of less experience, that he may still have reached the same conclusions.

    Collins stands accused of spreading and leaking dirt on political opponents, however here we see an example of her doing it to a member of the public, the victim of a Miscarriage of Justice according to our highest Court of the time. At the same time relegating an international Jurist, sought for the role because of his credentials, as some kind of enemy of his pay master. How does that work?

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  246. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Nost.
    This thread has nothing to do with Bain and I have no intention of going there except to say this:
    Section 27 is all about rights recognised by law. Bain has no right to compensation. If he did he would have taken this to court years ago. This whole problem arises because there are no rights — only cabinet discretion based on on vague criteria and which do not, overtly, create any rights or obligations.

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  247. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Nookin (3,120 comments) says:
    August 18th, 2014 at 6:29 am

    But the information wasn’t ‘out there’, therefore it wasn’t public. Nor was it in the public’s best interest to know it, unless the government had a particular reason for not wanting to make a decision on a controversial matter before the election – knowing full well that the inevitable decision, would influence how some chose to vote. If it is deemed necessary to stir the public up, so that matters are stalled, until after the election, I guess you could roughly say that was in the ‘public’s interests’ but then that could only apply if you believed it was in the public’s interest to re-elect the current government – good luck with using that excuse in a court!

    It becomes a problem for the minister when exposing information is against the remit of their role and statements they had made regarding not releasing information to the public – therefore, it becomes very handy to be able to pass selective information on to someone who will make it public in a very biased manner, the problem of course being, how does that ‘someone’ get to know what they have to ask for, when they don’t know the information exists?

    Read between the lines nookin and get ready to kiss the ministers butt goodbye!

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  248. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Nookin (3,121 comments) says:
    August 18th, 2014 at 7:59 am

    Whether there is a right to compensation or not has nothing to do with this. The issue is that the government can not, and could not afford to make a decision regarding that compensation before the election. To do so would certainly lose them votes, as anything they did, either way, would upset a reasonably split electorate. No matter what they do, it will be fought over afterwards, and it will be big and controversial – and have the ability to dominate at least some of the pre-election dialogue.

    Therefore the government, and especially the minister involved, had to do everything they could, to either make an immediate decision, which was attempted back in December 2012 (far enough from the election to enable the controversy to die down) however, when that became too difficult to do, they had to find some way of ensuring that the matter was NOT decided before the election.

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  249. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Judith
    You are talking in riddles and referring to issues that have no bearing on my argument. I was comparing Collins’ position in the context of an allegation that she may have pointed Slater in a particular direction to counter what Goff was saying about Israeli tourists. I made that quite clear. If you are talking something else then spell it out. Before doing so, read my posts. It is manifestly clear that in my view those arguing that disclosure should be made in the public interest have a higher burden to bear to justify their position than appears to have been accepted in the past. My view is equally strong that if you apply one standard to one sector then you apply that same standard to any other. Unlike Mr Hager.

    Stop shifting the goal posts and putting words in my mouth.

    I said that I was not going to debate Bain. It is irrelevant to the proposition that BORA applies to leaking. Nost introduced Bain to illustrate that I was wrong. His argument is based on non sequiters.

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  250. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Nookin (3,122 comments) says:
    August 18th, 2014 at 8:39 am
    Best we leave it here, I was using my example because it is a ‘pure’ one, it is not tainted like Hager’s because the material was sourced legally. I mentioned it because it supports Hager’s argument, and it cannot be argued, as you have done that it was in the public’s best interest to know, because the Minister had, herself declared that the information would not be released publicly, because it was not in the public’s best interest to know it.

    but never mind, we will leave it there, because I’m not prepared to give exact details on here, they are being dealt with by the appropriate people.

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  251. flipper (3,988 comments) says:

    The debate between Nookin and Judith /Nos-NZ can be broken into several sections, all disparate. But let’s concentrate on two.

    Anyone who suggests that Minsters have never, at one extreme, leaked by handing either an original or a copy of a Cabinet paper, or a Cabinet Minute, while at the other, giving someone a nudge, is away with the fairies.

    Ergo, what J Collins (or any Minister other than the Prime Minister) may, or may not, have done with C Slater over the SIS briefing of Goffie, was nothing more than a nudge and a wink – perhaps derived from Cabinet chatter. That was just domestic politics, but at a somewhat lower level than Goff’s use of MFAT documents against D Brash, and his use of MFAT leaks against McCully.

    On the other hand, her behaviour over Binnie was absolutely disgraceful, and deserving of the utmost condemnation. It caused New Zealand jurists considerable international embarrassment. It may well have caused Mrs Fletcher considerable unease when she sat with other Privy Council Law Lords to consider Lundy.

    Let us not equate one with the other. But let us also not forget that by heeding self-interested advice from the New Zealand CR/Police industrial complex (that also includes Fisher and his ilk), Collins brought New Zealand’s legal fraternity, and the reputation of our Governmental processes, into disrepute.

    The DB claim process was put in place by Simon Power, with full Cabinet approval. It was accepted by DB et al in good faith, and on the understanding that DB (and his team) would not contest the umpire’s decision. Binnie J. was selected by Power on advice from the MoJ. He was not selected by DB’s team.

    Collins’ actions in subverting a Cabinet approved process (which she probably personally opposed, and spoke against) to resolve the compensation issue in a civilised (well, relatively) manner, may yet prove to be her undoing.

    More than a year ago, The Outside The Beltway Group, included this in their analysis of the Bain/Binnie/Collins conundrum:

    ***
    Judith Collins sought to “play in the bigs”. But she and her advisors have been shown to be “babes in the wood”, to use an NZ expression.
    They probably, almost certainly, thought they could brow-beat Justice Binnie, as they might a New Zealand Q.C., or judicial figure. But they did NOT see the 5000 ton freight train roaring down the tracks at 85 mph. The tame Dunedin academics, and Wellington bureaucrats, supporting [manipulating or capturing] her, along with poor Robert Fisher, were all taken-aback when Ian Binnie counter-attacked, as North American judges and attorneys are want to do – especially when they know that they have been unjustly “dissed” by an overly clever lawmaker.
    They did not realise that the Hon Justice Ian Binnie, a former Minister in a nation of 30+ million, and a former Justice on that nation’s Supreme Court, with more than 40 years’ experience as a litigator, and quite accustomed to “playing in the bigs”, would never be intimidated by “an Auckland tax lawyer”, and her naive advisors. Only a fool would not have anticipated a counter-battery.
    “If Justice Binnie had played by Collins’ rules he would have buried her under a “pile-up”, as he did Fisher. Politely, of course. But he was kind, well sort of. Mrs Collins, unfortunately for her, was simply echoing her bureaucrats. Not a good idea when “playing in the bigs” with 2500 lb. Rhinos [with apologies to Ian Binnie] !

    – a North American perspective from JD, Attorney at Law, King City,, OR., (OTB 3) USofA. ”

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  252. Nookin (3,283 comments) says:

    Thanks Flipper. I agree that the spat between Collins and Binnie was unseemly and I imagine she wishes she had gone about it a different way. Put that aside, the legal considerations have yet to be determined and I am reluctant to get into any sort of debate because it will only be at a superficial, albeit principled, level. I did comment on BORA’s application. I would be very surprised if Bain gets home on that score. I believe Reed will have other arrows in his quiver. For now, I have to earn a crust.

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  253. goldnkiwi (1,280 comments) says:

    UrbanNeocolonialist (189 comments) says:

    August 17th, 2014 at 11:30 pm

    lol I see political conspiracies in lots of things but truly I didn’t while watching that. It was just so sad and I believe that many women could echo some of those feelings of helplessness. I do not think that we have a rape culture but I do wonder sometimes regarding the nurturing that mothers do or don’t do with their sons. Some men have no ‘empathy’? with women and are reduced to their animal selves (we do not have to scratch too deep in respects of violence too) yet it is women that even today primarily do the child rearing.

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